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KCrockaholic
08-16-2010, 02:13 PM
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/8/16/1626102/chiefs-training-camp-latest-depth#storyjump

OFFENSE

WR: Chris Chambers, Jerheme Urban, Quinten Lawrence, Jeremy Horne, Verran Tucker

LT: Branden Albert, Barry Richardson, Tyler Eastman

LG: Brian Waters, Ikechuku Ndukwe, Darryl Harris

Lemuel Jeanpierre was listed here last week.

C: Rudy Niswanger, Casey Wiegmann, Lemuel Jeanpierre

Jeanpierre is added to the center position.

RG: Ryan Lilja, Jon Asamoah, Dan Santucci

RT: Ryan O'Callaghan, Colin Brown

TE: Leonard Pope, Tony Moeaki, Jake O'Connell, Cody Slate, Leroy Banks

WR: Dwayne Bowe, Dexter McCluster, Terrance Copper, Lance Long, Rich Gunnell

QB: Matt Cassel, Brodie Croyle, Tyler Palko

FB: Tim Castille, Mike Cox

RB: Thomas Jones, Jamaal Charles, Kestahn Moore, Jackie Battle, Javarris Williams



DEFENSE

LDE: Tyson Jackson, Shaun Smith, Alex Magee, Dion Gales

NT: Ron Edwards, Derek Lokey, Garrett Brown

RDE: Glenn Dorsey, Wallace Gilberry, Bobby Greenwood, Jeffrey Fitzgerald

LOLB: Mike Vrabel, Andy Studebaker, John Russell

LILB: Jovan Belcher, Corey Mays Justin Cole

Belcher joins the first team.

RILB: Derrick Johnson, Demorrio Williams, David Herron, Cory Greenwood

DJ joins the first team.

ROLB: Tamba Hali, Cameron Sheffield, Pierre Walters

LCB: Brandon Flowers, Maurice Leggett, Mike Richardson, Jackie Bates

RCB: Brandon Carr, Javier Arenas, Travis Daniels, Ricky Price

SS: Eric Berry, Reshard Langford, DaJaun Morgan

FS: Jon McGraw, Kendrick Lewis, Donald Washington

Slowly but surely they are putting in the right guys.

RustShack
08-16-2010, 02:17 PM
How did Garret Brown do during Pre-Season?

Chocolate Hog
08-16-2010, 02:17 PM
Harris is third string? And why is Gunnell 5th string?

the Talking Can
08-16-2010, 02:18 PM
magee is 3rd behind a street trash fa brought in to be a NT....lord...

Huffman83
08-16-2010, 02:18 PM
Heh...it couldn't hurt.

Unfortunately this team won't admit that using a power back type RB like Jones won't work w/ that offensive line.

Deberg_1990
08-16-2010, 02:19 PM
im a little disappointed Tyler Palko hasnt seized the #1 QB job.

raybec 4
08-16-2010, 02:19 PM
Harris is third string? And why is Gunnell 5th string?

I imagine until Harris can practice again he'll stay at the bottom of the chart.

BigCatDaddy
08-16-2010, 02:22 PM
I wonder if any thoughts of moving Sheffield inside. He sure passes the eye test.

RustShack
08-16-2010, 02:23 PM
Harris is third string? And why is Gunnell 5th string?

Harris being third string might have something to do with him being hurt for awhile now.

RustShack
08-16-2010, 02:24 PM
I wonder if any thoughts of moving Sheffield inside. He sure passes the eye test.

I wouldn't think about moving him inside.

raybec 4
08-16-2010, 02:25 PM
I wonder if any thoughts of moving Sheffield inside. He sure passes the eye test.

I wonder if they'll ever put Gilberry ahaed of Dorsey.

KCrockaholic
08-16-2010, 02:25 PM
I wouldn't think about moving him inside.

Nah, Sheffield is a fine OLB. He certainly passes the eye test though. I don't think he will be all-pro or anything, but he looks the part for now.

KCrockaholic
08-16-2010, 02:26 PM
I wonder if they'll ever put Gilberry ahaed of Dorsey.

Ahead of Dorsey? Uh no. How bout ahead of Tyson Jackson?

KCUnited
08-16-2010, 02:27 PM
The irony of having 2 guys named Pierre on this team is not lost.

ChiTown
08-16-2010, 02:27 PM
magee is 3rd behind a street trash fa brought in to be a NT....lord...

Doesn't matter whether it's CP or SP, they have equally sucked cock drafting for the DL

BigCatDaddy
08-16-2010, 02:28 PM
Nah, Sheffield is a fine OLB. He certainly passes the eye test though. I don't think he will be all-pro or anything, but he looks the part for now.

Right, but he isn't replacing Vrabel, Hali, or Studebaker at this point. If something happens to DJ or Belcher we are back to even worse piles of crap in Mayes and Williams. He may fail but at 6'2 260 he looks the part and what can you lose? I just think he has a better chance to see the field inside.

BigCatDaddy
08-16-2010, 02:29 PM
I wonder if they'll ever put Gilberry ahaed of Dorsey.

They should put him ahead of Dorsey and Jackson.

raybec 4
08-16-2010, 02:30 PM
Ahead of Dorsey? Uh no. How bout ahead of Tyson Jackson?

Gilberry is behind Dorsey on the chart and I'm sure Smith will overtake Jackson before the season. I just thought Gilberry played pretty well especially in pash rushing situations.

RustShack
08-16-2010, 02:30 PM
I wonder if they'll ever put Gilberry ahaed of Dorsey.

Uhh... Gillberry can't hold multiple blockers and stop the run...

KCrockaholic
08-16-2010, 02:31 PM
Right, but he isn't replacing Vrabel, Hali, or Studebaker at this point. If something happens to DJ or Belcher we are back to even worse piles of crap in Mayes and Williams. He may fail but at 6'2 260 he looks the part and what can you lose? I just think he has a better chance to see the field inside.

He's a developmental Outside pass rusher. I'm certain he would be lost as an ILB. We don't need Sheffield playing there unless we have to start Mays. Mays is total ass.

Sofa King
08-16-2010, 02:31 PM
Berry to SS?

RustShack
08-16-2010, 02:32 PM
They should put him ahead of Dorsey and Jackson.

ROFL

KCrockaholic
08-16-2010, 02:32 PM
Gilberry is behind Dorsey on the chart and I'm sure Smith will overtake Jackson before the season. I just thought Gilberry played pretty well especially in pash rushing situations.

Smith should overtake Jackson before the season but don't count on it. That would be Pioli and co admitting that they failed with the Tjack pick. They won't do that.

Dorsey isn't a problem as a 5-tech. Gilberry is going to be used as more of a pass rusher this year anyways, so that can be forgotten about.

Detoxing
08-16-2010, 02:33 PM
Who cares.

It's only DJ and Belcher for this week. We knew they would start this week.... last week.

And next week it will be Mays and Williams again.

RustShack
08-16-2010, 02:33 PM
Berry to SS?

Welcome to the offseason. Berry has been there since he put on a Chiefs practice jersey.

RustShack
08-16-2010, 02:33 PM
Right, but he isn't replacing Vrabel, Hali, or Studebaker at this point. If something happens to DJ or Belcher we are back to even worse piles of crap in Mayes and Williams. He may fail but at 6'2 260 he looks the part and what can you lose? I just think he has a better chance to see the field inside.

The problem is he doesn't have any ILB qualities.

KCrockaholic
08-16-2010, 02:33 PM
Berry to SS?

Did you watch the game dude? Berry and his Safety partner don't stay in the same place all game. Berry played SS and FS throughout his playing time. It will always be that way.

RustShack
08-16-2010, 02:35 PM
Smith should overtake Jackson before the season but don't count on it. That would be Pioli and co admitting that they failed with the Tjack pick. They won't do that.

Dorsey isn't a problem as a 5-tech. Gilberry is going to be used as more of a pass rusher this year anyways, so that can be forgotten about.

They wont do it because it takes three years for DL to live up to their potential. Jackson is only entering year two. Jackson sucking the first two years was to be expected by anyone with NFL common sense.

BigCatDaddy
08-16-2010, 02:35 PM
Uhh... Gillberry can't hold multiple blockers and stop the run...

And Jackson can????

KCrockaholic
08-16-2010, 02:37 PM
They wont do it because it takes three years for DL to live up to their potential. Jackson is only entering year two. Jackson sucking the first two years was to be expected by anyone with NFL common sense.

This as well. D-lineman take longer than nearly any other position to mature. But...I'm not letting Jackson off the hook. He sucks, and is a bust.

BigCatDaddy
08-16-2010, 02:41 PM
This as well. D-lineman take longer than nearly any other position to mature. But...I'm not letting Jackson off the hook. He sucks, and is a bust.

I agree, but man I would like to at least see a flash from him or Dorsey. While this draft class isn't line orientated it's fun to see some of the guys at least flash. Lewis, Arienas, McCluster all made you say, ahhhh I see it.

KCrockaholic
08-16-2010, 02:45 PM
I agree, but man I would like to at least see a flash from him or Dorsey. While this draft class isn't line orientated it's fun to see some of the guys at least flash. Lewis, Arienas, McCluster all made you say, ahhhh I see it.

I liked what I saw from each of those guys in the game. There are still 3 more games to look for improvement from Dorsey and Jackson.

ChiTown
08-16-2010, 02:47 PM
BIOGRAPHY
Pro Career: Talented defensive end joined the Chiefs as the third overall selection in the 2009 NFL Draft ... Earned All-Rookie honors from Pro Football Weekly/PFWA ... Physical performer plays the defensive end position in Kansas City’s 3-4 defensive alignment with fellow first-round defensive end Glenn Dorsey (D1a-08) ... Should benefit greatly from working with defensive line coach Anthony Pleasant, who enjoyed a 14-year NFL playing career ... Joined WR Dwayne Bowe (D1-07) and Dorsey (D1a-08) as the third consecutive player from LSU drafted in the first round, marking the first time in the era of the common draft that a team selected three straight number one picks from the same school ... Has played in 16 games (14 starts) ... Has recorded 31 tackles (18 solo), four QB pressures and two passes defensed.

ROFL

BigCatDaddy
08-16-2010, 02:48 PM
I liked what I saw from each of those guys in the game. There are still 3 more games to look for improvement from Dorsey and Jackson.

I guess, but I'm not optimistic at this point. I don't think a good secondary can help when guys are just getting blown off the ball. At this point I would say F'it and trade for Haynesworth. If he wants to play 5 let him play 5 and slide Dorsey inside. It's a finger in a dyke, but better then getting ran all over week in and week out.

RustShack
08-16-2010, 02:51 PM
We weren't getting completely ran on except for when Dorsey and Jackson weren't on the field..

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2010, 02:55 PM
We weren't getting completely ran on except for when Dorsey and Jackson weren't on the field..

Uh, Friday night. First series?

RustShack
08-16-2010, 02:57 PM
Uh, Friday night. First series?

Alright so the first series in their first game in a new defense. Cool bra. To bad your Falcons couldn't run all the way for a TD on them though.

Chocolate Hog
08-16-2010, 02:59 PM
Alright so the first series in their first game in a new defense. Cool bra. To bad your Falcons couldn't run all the way for a TD on them though.

Man it doesn't matter because the defense looked like that for 16 games like that and the GM didn't do anything to improve it.

ChiTown
08-16-2010, 03:00 PM
Man it doesn't matter because the defense looked like that for 16 games like that and the GM didn't do anything to improve it.

Yes he did. He signed Shaun Smith!1!!!!1111!

RustShack
08-16-2010, 03:01 PM
Man it doesn't matter because the defense looked like that for 16 games like that and the GM didn't do anything to improve it.

That might have something to do with the fact he understands unlike a bunch of fools here that it takes time to develop young players, especially on the DL.

Chocolate Hog
08-16-2010, 03:02 PM
That might have something to do with the fact he understands unlike a bunch of fools here that it takes time to develop young players, especially on the DL.

Well considering one is a 4-3 Dtackle and the other one isn't worth a shit I'd say we'll be waiting awhile.

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2010, 03:03 PM
Alright so the first series in their first game in a new defense. Cool bra. To bad your Falcons couldn't run all the way for a TD on them though.

New? They've been running the 3-4 for 21 games.

How is that new?

RustShack
08-16-2010, 03:05 PM
New? They've been running the 3-4 for 21 games.

How is that new?

Last year wasn't a true 3-4. Plus, even it if was, its not the same as Crennels. Just like all 4-3 defenses aren't the same.

notorious
08-16-2010, 03:06 PM
Man it doesn't matter because the defense looked like that for 16 games like that and the GM didn't do anything to improve it.

Homerun.

notorious
08-16-2010, 03:09 PM
Last year wasn't a true 3-4. Plus, even it if was, its not the same as Crennels. Just like all 4-3 defenses aren't the same.

Crennel was successful with his conservative 3-4 when Defensive Backs were allowed to rape WR's.

There have been major rules changes since his good defenses in NE.


A conservative defense will get destroyed in today's NFL. You need to use confusing blitz packages and have the D-Backs jump routes, or a badass front 4 in a 4-3.

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2010, 03:13 PM
Last year wasn't a true 3-4. Plus, even it if was, its not the same as Crennels. Just like all 4-3 defenses aren't the same.

Oh, come on.

The front seven's job was exactly the same last year as it is this year. Crennel didn't change their gap assignments or schemes.

This defense isn't going to improve until they upgrade the players, period. Romeo Crennel will likely make very little difference until that happens, which is at least a year away.

Take off the homer glasses.

RustShack
08-16-2010, 03:16 PM
Dorsey and Jackson have talent, they need coached. DJ has talent, he needs coached and pushed. Building team chemistry will win more games than stockpiling players with names. Thats what the Chiefs are doing.

Mr. Laz
08-16-2010, 03:19 PM
They should put him ahead of Dorsey and Jackson.
so Gilberry is so good he can play both end positions?

BigCatDaddy
08-16-2010, 03:21 PM
so Gilberry is so good he can play both end positions?

I suppose if Jimmy Wilkerson can play any position on the line in a 4-3, Gilberry can swing right or left end on this team.

Mr. Laz
08-16-2010, 03:24 PM
I suppose if Jimmy Wilkerson can play any position on the line in a 4-3, Gilberry can swing right or left end on this team.
wow ... he must be really fast if he can play 2 positions at the same time.

if he is that good maybe he can play the entire front 7 all by himself

notorious
08-16-2010, 03:26 PM
wow ... he must be really fast if he can play 2 positions at the same time.

if he is that good maybe he can play the entire front 7 all by himself

Would it be a step down, though? It's not like they are doing a good job now, so we might try the Belichick 1-10 defense.

Fish
08-16-2010, 03:31 PM
Dorsey and Jackson have talent, they need coached. DJ has talent, he needs coached and pushed. Building team chemistry will win more games than stockpiling players with names. Thats what the Chiefs are doing.

DJ has been through 3 different head coaches and countless position coaches. He's been coached and pushed about every different way possible from many different people. Talent or not, if he hasn't gotten it by now, a different DC isn't going to magically make the light go on. He is what he is.

Great coaching cannot overcome a lack of talent. That's just the way it is. And I have a feeling we'll see that fact in glaring detail throughout this year. Everybody is expecting Weis/Crennel to come in and make magic with the guys we have, but I smell a chickenshit souffle in the oven no matter how hard they try...

Team chemistry comes from grouping really talented guys together and letting them achieve success. Doing a lot of hard work, and seeing positive results from that hard work. Team chemistry doesn't just come from forcing a bunch of 300 lb. dudes into the same movie theater and expecting magic.

BigCatDaddy
08-16-2010, 03:34 PM
wow ... he must be really fast if he can play 2 positions at the same time.

if he is that good maybe he can play the entire front 7 all by himself

Gotcha. Good one.... Now where is that damn roll eyes icon.

Mr. Laz
08-16-2010, 03:42 PM
Gotcha. Good one.... Now where is that damn roll eyes icon.
i knew we would get there eventually

more fun without the 'road sign' to point the way. :D

wasi
08-16-2010, 04:17 PM
Team chemistry comes from grouping really talented guys together and letting them achieve success. Doing a lot of hard work, and seeing positive results from that hard work. Team chemistry doesn't just come from forcing a bunch of 300 lb. dudes into the same movie theater and expecting magic.


I disagree. I would also argue that talent and chemistry are mutually exlusive.

At low levels of competion, I can see chemistry being built without actually working at building it if or when you have a group that can literally beat up on everyone. But at a pro level, margins between teams are really small and everyone is talented to some degree. A team is not going to build chemistry with talent alone because chemistry is mental, talent is physical. Your going to have a degree of chemistry because guys are going to have swagger if they can win some because of talent, but when things go bad chemistry is what is going to keep the team going, the lesser talented guys willing to try harder etc. leading to team success.

Fish
08-16-2010, 04:45 PM
I disagree. I would also argue that talent and chemistry are mutually exlusive.

At low levels of competion, I can see chemistry being built without actually working at building it if or when you have a group that can literally beat up on everyone. But at a pro level, margins between teams are really small and everyone is talented to some degree. A team is not going to build chemistry with talent alone because chemistry is mental, talent is physical. Your going to have a degree of chemistry because guys are going to have swagger if they can win some because of talent, but when things go bad chemistry is what is going to keep the team going, the lesser talented guys willing to try harder etc. leading to team success.

I don't really understand your chemistry/mental, talent/physical analogy. So what if talent is physical? It still trumps chemistry on the field, and I'm not sure how you can argue it. 25 Ross Gload's are great for chemistry, but still won't win anything. More talent brings more wins. More wins bring more chemistry. Winning is the best chemistry builder possible. You can have some real pricks on the team that hate each other's guts. But if they're still winning lots of games, those guys are gonna tolerate each other and do their part.

Lesser talented guys willing to try harder? No way dude. To a very high degree, the most talented guys out there are that way because they're hard workers. Sure there are guys out there with lots of talent but are terrible workers. But they're easily exposed these days.

BossChief
08-16-2010, 05:33 PM
Well there are a couple of the moves Ive been calling for all offseason.

DJs starting alongside Belcher are two upgrades.

Now, all we need is for Studebaker to beat out Vrabel by MNF and our linebackers should be noticeably improved.

Jackson
Smith
Dorsey

Studebaker
Belcher
DJ
Hali

Flowers
Carr
Arenas ($.05)
Berry
Lewis

Thats how Id like to see em line up against SD on MNF

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2010, 10:37 PM
Well there are a couple of the moves Ive been calling for all offseason.

DJs starting alongside Belcher are two upgrades.

Now, all we need is for Studebaker to beat out Vrabel by MNF and our linebackers should be noticeably improved.

Jackson
Smith
Dorsey

Studebaker
Belcher
DJ
Hali

Flowers
Carr
Arenas ($.05)
Berry
Lewis

Thats how Id like to see em line up against SD on MNF

Without a true nose tackle, Ryan Matthews will probably put up a buck fifty on the ground and another fifty through the air, alone.

This defense has needed an enema for a decade.

wasi
08-16-2010, 11:42 PM
I don't really understand your chemistry/mental, talent/physical analogy. So what if talent is physical? It still trumps chemistry on the field, and I'm not sure how you can argue it. 25 Ross Gload's are great for chemistry, but still won't win anything. More talent brings more wins. More wins bring more chemistry. Winning is the best chemistry builder possible. You can have some real pricks on the team that hate each other's guts. But if they're still winning lots of games, those guys are gonna tolerate each other and do their part.

Lesser talented guys willing to try harder? No way dude. To a very high degree, the most talented guys out there are that way because they're hard workers. Sure there are guys out there with lots of talent but are terrible workers. But they're easily exposed these days.

What I am saying is that at the professional sports level such as the NFL, there isn't the ability to amass enough pure outstanding talent that will win so many games. I will reiterate, in pro leagues the margin between teams is really small and every team has more or less the same general level of talent. When adversity hits, it's going to be the less talented guys that have to step up and/or the team chemistry will elevate everyone because you want don't want to let your team mates down.


You can have some real pricks on the team that hate each other's guts. But if they're still winning lots of games, those guys are gonna tolerate each other and do their part.


TO and McNabb were winning they still hated each other.

Saccopoo
08-17-2010, 03:55 AM
Holy fuck.

Let's not draft a right tackle because you can get one in free agency.

I hope all you fuckers are completely satisfied.

Don't pick an offensive lineman! We need playmakers! PLAYMAKERS!!!!

Go get happy Drafturbators. Love your line.

tyton75
08-17-2010, 04:59 AM
Either way, we are screwed at Right Tackle

ChiTown
08-17-2010, 06:57 AM
Either way, we are screwed at Right Tackle

Oh, you could go A LOT deeper than that. This roster is chalk full of crap, especially along the DL and LB position.

RedThat
08-17-2010, 07:05 AM
Ron Edwards:shake:

We're ****ed again.

I'd like to know wtf does that guy do to get a ****ing job every year?

LOL Ho-lee-sh*t ROFL

tyton75
08-17-2010, 07:18 AM
Anyone else wishing right about now that, even though McCluster is exciting.. maybe we should have drafted Man-Tits Cody instead to fill the D-Line?

Lzen
08-17-2010, 07:30 AM
im a little disappointed Tyler Palko hasnt seized the #1 QB job.

Yes. He had several almost completions on deep balls the other night. Surely, all he needs is time with the 1st string unit. ROFL

Lzen
08-17-2010, 07:39 AM
Smith should overtake Jackson before the season but don't count on it. That would be Pioli and co admitting that they failed with the Tjack pick. They won't do that.

Are you suggesting they give up on a high 1st rd draft pick after only 1 season? THAT would be idiotic. Some guys take a little longer to starting "getting it". If by next year he isn't looking any better, they will have to seriously consider moving him. But at this point, its way to early.

Lzen
08-17-2010, 07:41 AM
I liked what I saw out of Kendrick Lewis the other night. Perhaps he'll break into the starting lineup at some point this season?

Also, I thought Donald Washington was a CB. Why is he playing 3rd FS?

Lzen
08-17-2010, 07:47 AM
Oh, come on.

The front seven's job was exactly the same last year as it is this year. Crennel didn't change their gap assignments or schemes.

Do you have proof of this? Or are you just talking out of your butt as usual? Surely, a new defensive coaching staff would bring SOME assignment changes.

Ralphy Boy
08-17-2010, 09:02 AM
That might have something to do with the fact he understands unlike a bunch of fools here that it takes time to develop young players, especially on the DL.

So that nose tackle we desperately need and presumably will draft in April 2011 should begin to contribute sometime during the 2013 season?

Thats fantastic. I can't wait for 2013