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Tribal Warfare
08-17-2010, 12:18 AM
Monday in Chiefs camp | Jamaal Charles' role uncertain; an unlikely QB suits up (http://www.kansascity.com/2010/08/16/2154467/chiefs-day-in-camp-on-monday.html)

Chiefs don’t yet know Charles’ role

Coach Todd Haley said that, despite a breakout 2009 season and a strong performance in Friday’s preseason opener, running back Jamaal Charles’ role is “still to be determined.”

Veteran Thomas Jones remains listed as the No. 1 running back ahead of Charles, a third-year back who rushed for 1,120 yards last season.

“Jamaal is a developing player,” Haley said Monday. “Jamaal is a player that, last year at times in that development, had good days, bad days and in-between days like a lot of other guys. That is part of the development, and that is part of becoming a dependable player on a daily basis.”

Haley said Charles has had a strong camp, even though he was unable to work out or practice during much of the offseason because of shoulder surgery. Haley added that he likes the Chiefs’ stable of running backs, led by the younger Charles complementing Jones and vice versa.

“They both understand what’s going on,” Haley said. “It’s a good situation.”

Chiefs suit up an unlikely QB

Before players — and some coaches, apparently — knew they wouldn’t be practicing Monday morning, the coaching staff convinced offensive quality control coach Nick Sirianni that he would be practicing with the team’s quarterbacks.

Haley said it was a practical joke — and sure enough, Sirianni, who’s in his second season in Kansas City, fell for it. The young coach dressed in pads and a yellow No. 9 jersey and strolled into the Griffon Indoor Sports Complex before Haley called off the morning session and took the team to a St. Joseph movie theater.

“We somehow convinced him that he was actually going to be at practice,” Haley said, “and somehow he believed us and actually put the uniform on.

“We did not have a practice, so I figured it would be a day to have a little fun.”

Sirianni works routinely with the quarterbacks, often playing catch with them early in practices. Sirianni played wide receiver in college at Mount Union in Ohio, where he completed his playing career in 2003.

Shouldn’t Sirianni have known better?

“He’s a loyal, dedicated coach. That’s the positive side of it,” Haley said with a smile. “I think everybody appreciated it. He took one for the team today.”

What you need to know about …

THE OFFENSE
Rudy Niswanger was the starter at right guard in the absence of Ryan Lilja. Casey Wiegmann was the center. Line depth took a further hit later in practice when right tackle Ryan O’Callaghan injured his leg during a drill. O’Callaghan sat out for a while and later returned. … The starting unit salvaged a 2-minute drill when Matt Cassel’s pass to Jerheme Urban allowed the offense to convert on fourth and 12. The offense then scored with no time on the clock on Cassel’s 10-yard pass to Jamaal Charles.

THE DEFENSE
The backup defenders dominated a no-huddle drill with two sacks and a deflected pass. … The second team also won its 2-minute drill when safety Ricky Price broke up a pass in the end zone with no time left. … Cornerback Brandon Flowers dived and broke up Cassel’s pass intended for Chris Chambers.

INJURY REPORT
Quarterback Brodie Croyle, running back Kestahn Moore, tight ends Tony Moeaki and Jake O’Connell, offensive linemen Ryan Lilja, Darryl Harris and Barry Richardson, and safety Jon McGraw did not practice. Safety Jarrad Page is unsigned and not in camp.

DAILY BATTLE
The Chiefs have had to move some bodies around on the offensive line because of injuries. At one point during practice they lined up with Branden Albert and Colin Brown at tackle, Niswanger and Brian Waters at guard and Wiegmann at center. While O’Callaghan was out, Brown was the only right tackle and took snaps with both the first and second teams.

TODAY’S SCHEDULE
The Chiefs will practice at 1:50 p.m. today.

Chocolate Hog
08-17-2010, 12:23 AM
How the fuck is Thomas Jones still the #1 rb? Do the coaches even watch the fucking game? Lance Jerk Off Long ahead of Gunnell is a fucking joke.

Chocolate Hog
08-17-2010, 12:24 AM
How the fuck is Thomas Jones still the #1 rb? Do the coaches even watch the fucking game? Lance Jerk Off Long ahead of Gunnell is a fucking joke.

DBOSHO
08-17-2010, 12:24 AM
i like haley, but he needs to use his brain.

hes still uncertain what the role of our only offensive threat last year is. im supporting another team if he gets less than 160 carries

okcchief
08-17-2010, 12:30 AM
Really? Really?

Thomas Jones is a good RB when you have an offensive line like the Jets but with our Oline he is Larry Johnson without the off the field issues. If we start Jones to begin the season I see three and outs taking us out of the game early.

Charles needs to start. Jones should be a short yardage and goal line back only. He is seriously going to piss me of this year if he keeps this shit up.

KCrockaholic
08-17-2010, 12:38 AM
Charles role needs to be starter...And if he doesn't get the majority of the carries throughout the season, unless TJ is averaging 5.5 YPC which won't happen, I will be pissed at this team.

cjp27
08-17-2010, 12:47 AM
If Charles doesn't start and get 15-20 carries per game, Haley needs to be brought in front of a firing squad.

MichaelH
08-17-2010, 04:49 AM
I had a co-worker, a Donkeys fan, come up to me and say that if Charles doesn't start then Haley is a bigger idiot than Hermie. WOW

Tuckdaddy
08-17-2010, 06:15 AM
If Charles doesn't start and get 15-20 carries per game, Haley needs to be brought in front of a firing squad.


How stupid can you be. I can't think of a coach that would even debate this in their mind. It's over analyzing a situation. JC is one of the best in the league, period! A home run threat every play!

I can't believe Charlie will leave him on the bench. 15-20 per game is what any sane coach would give him and in the fourth quarter, with the game on the line, he is a weapon you must utilize. WTF is wrong with THEM?

Tuckdaddy
08-17-2010, 06:16 AM
I had a co-worker, a Donkeys fan, come up to me and say that if Charles doesn't start then Haley is a bigger idiot than Hermie. WOW


He's right though. Herm would run JC into the ground.

Tuckdaddy
08-17-2010, 06:19 AM
How the **** is Thomas Jones still the #1 rb? Do the coaches even watch the ****ing game? Lance Jerk Off Long ahead of Gunnell is a ****ing joke.


No way he doesn't start. Charlie won't let that happen. If he does then he should be forced to give his rings to Bill because clearly he's responsible for him getting them.

Marcellus
08-17-2010, 06:59 AM
You don't think this is being blown out of proportion do you? If week one comes around and Charles doesn't have 15 caries then get upset.

Haley is just keeping JC motivated. Do you really think they don't know what his potential is?

I also think they are tempered in their expectations as many people here are and should be. He can't likely do what he did last year for 16 games without getting beat to hell. He needs someone to split carries with.

Chill.

beach tribe
08-17-2010, 07:02 AM
I can't believe you guys don't get what's going on here.
Charles is not that durable. We are going to need him for seasons to come. If we make him the main focal point in our offense in a season such as this one, when we can easily batter TJ into the end if his career, and refine, JCs skills, he won't be here when the team is actually competitive. Now that comes from an injury, and a money standpoint. Haley probably knows what he has in Charles, but why blow that load on a date as ugly as this season is going to be. And what if we win 7 games, and JC rushes for 1700 yards, then he wants to be paid like a top back, or better yet, what if he breaks in half. Lotta good that'll do us.
Keep him humble, keep him healthy. "this is Chess mother****er, it ain't checkers!!!"

Tuckdaddy
08-17-2010, 08:49 AM
I can't believe you guys don't get what's going on here.
Charles is not that durable. We are going to need him for seasons to come. If we make him the main focal point in our offense in a season such as this one, when we can easily batter TJ into the end if his career, and refine, JCs skills, he won't be here when the team is actually competitive. Now that comes from an injury, and a money standpoint. Haley probably knows what he has in Charles, but why blow that load on a date as ugly as this season is going to be. And what if we win 7 games, and JC rushes for 1700 yards, then he wants to be paid like a top back, or better yet, what if he breaks in half. Lotta good that'll do us.
Keep him humble, keep him healthy. "this is Chess mother****er, it ain't checkers!!!"

So he should play when the team is competitive in the future? You play to win the game, even Herm got that right. He should get the ball 15-20 times per game and be our starting RB. TJ can give him a rest but that's it.

MOhillbilly
08-17-2010, 08:52 AM
The sky. Its falling.

Dave Lane
08-17-2010, 08:53 AM
I can't believe you guys don't get what's going on here.
Charles is not that durable. We are going to need him for seasons to come. If we make him the main focal point in our offense in a season such as this one, when we can easily batter TJ into the end if his career, and refine, JCs skills, he won't be here when the team is actually competitive. Now that comes from an injury, and a money standpoint. Haley probably knows what he has in Charles, but why blow that load on a date as ugly as this season is going to be. And what if we win 7 games, and JC rushes for 1700 yards, then he wants to be paid like a top back, or better yet, what if he breaks in half. Lotta good that'll do us.
Keep him humble, keep him healthy. "this is Chess mother****er, it ain't checkers!!!"


This. JFC I can't believe the morons that want to immediately run Charles into the ground because he's a good back. Maybe next year when we have a chance to contend for a playoff spot. Or later this year if we are 8-6 and have a shot otherwise no dice. The guy is too slight to risk running more than 15-20 times a game tops. It's like the idiots that wanted Hilman to leave Meche in to finish games.

Bane
08-17-2010, 08:53 AM
The sky. Its falling.

Classic CP...ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

You wouldn't have it any other way would ya?

MOhillbilly
08-17-2010, 08:55 AM
Classic CP...ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

You wouldn't have it any other way would ya?

Hell no.

bobbything
08-17-2010, 09:07 AM
Coach Todd Haley said that, despite a breakout 2009 season and a strong performance in Friday’s preseason opener, running back Jamaal Charles’ role is “still to be determined.”
http://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/banghead.gif

I'm getting less and less amused by the day with Haley's passive/aggressive tactics.

wutamess
08-17-2010, 09:11 AM
He's right though. Herm would run JC into the ground.

Reason # 101 I liked Herm over Haley.

wutamess
08-17-2010, 09:13 AM
This. JFC I can't believe the morons that want to immediately run Charles into the ground because he's a good back. Maybe next year when we have a chance to contend for a playoff spot. Or later this year if we are 8-6 and have a shot otherwise no dice. The guy is too slight to risk running more than 15-20 times a game tops. It's like the idiots that wanted Hilman to leave Meche in to finish games.

But the avg lifespan of a RB is 3-4 years anyways... might as well let do what we can with what we got. Notice our entire offense opened up last year with Charles in. LJ... Not so much.

Run his ass into the ground. That's what he gets paid for. Chris Johnson does it... why not Charles? :shrug:

bobbything
08-17-2010, 09:32 AM
But the avg lifespan of a RB is 3-4 years anyways... might as well let do what we can with what we got. Notice our entire offense opened up last year with Charles in. LJ... Not so much.

Run his ass into the ground. That's what he gets paid for. Chris Johnson does it... why not Charles? :shrug:
I'm fine with using Jones 1/3rd of the time. But to say that Charles' role is "to be determined" is ridiculous. If it really is, this coaching staff is stupid.

dse2010
08-17-2010, 09:33 AM
JC will find a way on the field and a lot. Most teams utilize two backs and JC is too good not to see substantial carries.

FAX
08-17-2010, 09:35 AM
A 5/6 YPC average will get anybody a lot of playing time.

I wouldn't read too much into a bunch of "coach speak" at this point in the year.

FAX

DeezNutz
08-17-2010, 09:37 AM
This. JFC I can't believe the morons that want to immediately run Charles into the ground because he's a good back. Maybe next year when we have a chance to contend for a playoff spot. Or later this year if we are 8-6 and have a shot otherwise no dice. The guy is too slight to risk running more than 15-20 times a game tops. It's like the idiots that wanted Hilman to leave Meche in to finish games.

Who has argued that we need to "run him into the ground"?

Link?

MOhillbilly
08-17-2010, 09:38 AM
we need to run JC into the ground.

DeezNutz
08-17-2010, 09:40 AM
we need to run JC into the ground.

Aside from wimpy here, of course?

Fish
08-17-2010, 09:43 AM
I can't believe you guys don't get what's going on here.
Charles is not that durable. We are going to need him for seasons to come. If we make him the main focal point in our offense in a season such as this one, when we can easily batter TJ into the end if his career, and refine, JCs skills, he won't be here when the team is actually competitive. Now that comes from an injury, and a money standpoint. Haley probably knows what he has in Charles, but why blow that load on a date as ugly as this season is going to be. And what if we win 7 games, and JC rushes for 1700 yards, then he wants to be paid like a top back, or better yet, what if he breaks in half. Lotta good that'll do us.
Keep him humble, keep him healthy. "this is Chess mother****er, it ain't checkers!!!"

Don't use one of our most valuable offensive weapons cause we won't get to the playoffs anyway? Seriously that's what you would prefer? For fuck's sake this fan base has more patience than a French victory band...

This is the NFL. You don't sit one of your best players on the damn bench because you want to save him for a season when you have a better shot. That's a defeatist attitude. That's how Grandpa Vermeil turned this team into a old folk's home. He'd never play the young guys, while the ancient veterans withered away on the field. And doing that would accomplish nothing but pissing off Charles, and ruining Jones, and still having nothing to show for it.

When you've got an ascending player that has shown the potential to be one of the best, you can't just put him on the shelf and "Save" that potential for later like a jar of peaches. It just doesn't work that way. You've got to run him when he's in his prime. When he's hungry and his desire is peaked. Telling Charles that he's got amazing talent and potential, but the team is afraid to use it up because the rest of the team sucks is a good way to destroy his long term future with the team.

Right now, Jones is a locker room leader. And at this point in the season, that's huge for the younger guys. I suspect that the only reason he's listed at #1 is because of that. But once we're into real games, the best player will be out there. Charles continues to show that he's the guy, so the depth chart listing is pretty meaningless at this point.

DeezNutz
08-17-2010, 09:45 AM
Don't use one of our most valuable offensive weapons cause we won't get to the playoffs anyway? Seriously that's what you would prefer?

Yes, which is why it was very foolish for us to sign Berry this year. We should have negotiated until 2012 because we need to protect him.

jspchief
08-17-2010, 09:50 AM
From an optimistic viewpoint...

Assuming we really are building a great team, we all know that we aren't there yet. So would you like Charles to be on the tail end of his career when we get there? We know Thomas Jones has a limited number of carries left, so why not run his ass into the ground while potentially adding a year or two to JC's career?

What's the argument against it? JC can give us a few more wins this year, getting us to 8-8 instead of 6-10? I need Charles to play for my message board smack arsenal, or fantasy football team? He's suddenly gonna forget how to run well if he only gets 12-15 carries per game instead of 25?

MOhillbilly
08-17-2010, 09:51 AM
Aside from wimpy here, of course?

i speak from the roman empire POV not the chiefs.

boogblaster
08-17-2010, 09:52 AM
we cant block for jones .. hes a power-back ......... start charles please .................

wutamess
08-17-2010, 09:54 AM
Don't use one of our most valuable offensive weapons cause we won't get to the playoffs anyway? Seriously that's what you would prefer? For ****'s sake this fan base has more patience than a French victory band...

This is the NFL. You don't sit one of your best players on the damn bench because you want to save him for a season when you have a better shot. That's a defeatist attitude. That's how Grandpa Vermeil turned this team into a old folk's home. He'd never play the young guys, while the ancient veterans withered away on the field. And doing that would accomplish nothing but pissing off Charles, and ruining Jones, and still having nothing to show for it.

When you've got an ascending player that has shown the potential to be one of the best, you can't just put him on the shelf and "Save" that potential for later like a jar of peaches. It just doesn't work that way. You've got to run him when he's in his prime. When he's hungry and his desire is peaked. Telling Charles that he's got amazing talent and potential, but the team is afraid to use it up because the rest of the team sucks is a good way to destroy his long term future with the team.

Right now, Jones is a locker room leader. And at this point in the season, that's huge for the younger guys. I suspect that the only reason he's listed at #1 is because of that. But once we're into real games, the best player will be out there. Charles continues to show that he's the guy, so the depth chart listing is pretty meaningless at this point.

This.

I couldn't believe his fuggin comment either. I was like WOW!

Consistent1
08-17-2010, 09:55 AM
People on here are flipping out too much over this IMO. Charles is going to get used a bunch and be very valuable to the team.

beach tribe
08-17-2010, 09:57 AM
Don't use one of our most valuable offensive weapons cause we won't get to the playoffs anyway? Seriously that's what you would prefer? For ****'s sake this fan base has more patience than a French victory band...

This is the NFL. You don't sit one of your best players on the damn bench because you want to save him for a season when you have a better shot. That's a defeatist attitude. That's how Grandpa Vermeil turned this team into a old folk's home. He'd never play the young guys, while the ancient veterans withered away on the field. And doing that would accomplish nothing but pissing off Charles, and ruining Jones, and still having nothing to show for it.

When you've got an ascending player that has shown the potential to be one of the best, you can't just put him on the shelf and "Save" that potential for later like a jar of peaches. It just doesn't work that way. You've got to run him when he's in his prime. When he's hungry and his desire is peaked. Telling Charles that he's got amazing talent and potential, but the team is afraid to use it up because the rest of the team sucks is a good way to destroy his long term future with the team.

Right now, Jones is a locker room leader. And at this point in the season, that's huge for the younger guys. I suspect that the only reason he's listed at #1 is because of that. But once we're into real games, the best player will be out there. Charles continues to show that he's the guy, so the depth chart listing is pretty meaningless at this point.

Honestly, I never said don't use him, but there is nothing wrong with letting him split time with TJ who is a proven workhorse. If JC averages more than 20 touches per game, you can say goodbye to the electric playmaker that we have come to know, and love.

Saulbadguy
08-17-2010, 10:33 AM
Let's not be dumbasses, please. Charles is the starter.

Fish
08-17-2010, 10:50 AM
Honestly, I never said don't use him, but there is nothing wrong with letting him split time with TJ who is a proven workhorse. If JC averages more than 20 touches per game, you can say goodbye to the electric playmaker that we have come to know, and love.

You can't really say that with any confidence. You never know how long a RB can stay healthy and contribute. Which is why any attempts to preserve his touches has just as big of a chance to backfire on you as it would to actually prolong his career. We could use Charles very sparingly all year in anticipation for next season, and he could break his leg in the offseason and be done for life.

RBs these days are tools. Tools that don't have a very long shelf life despite how you use them. So you get what you can out of them in the short time you have them, and discard them when they don't work anymore. You cannot rely on one specific RB to be the driving force of the offense. That's dangerous and foolhardy. And saving Charles for the right time would be doing just that.

I'd never advocate only using Charles and sitting Jones. Of course they'll split time. But Charles picked this team up last season when absolutely nothing else was working. He's always said the right things. He's been a good teammate. Despite what Jones brings to the team, it should be Charles' job to lose. Most people can see that he's earned it. And if you go by the coach's own words that the best players will be on the field, you start Charles. He's looked the best from what we've seen out of the offense so far.

RINGLEADER
08-17-2010, 11:10 AM
Charles may not be able to solve all of this team's issues, but if Haley can't see that he is one of his best offensive players on the team he will lose Charles, the team, the fans, and a lot of games. Not necessarily in that order.

The one bright spot of the 09 season and the one silver lining in the Jared Allen trade is slowly being snuffed out by a coach that I'm really starting to question...

beach tribe
08-17-2010, 11:16 AM
It's JMO, and I could very well be ignorant to the right approach, but I would do these kinds of things for the exact reasons I stated. If I were a coach, my goal would be SB or bust, and I would do everything I could in the time that I didn't have the firepower, to prepare for the time that I did. That's not to say I'm not trying to win every game I play, and that's why I sign a guy like TJ. He's no slouch. I can already see that JC is going to be the reason for a lot of Haley Hate.

Mr. Laz
08-17-2010, 11:19 AM
Jamaal Charles' role is not uncertain ... only his title is undetermined.

he will do all of the same things he did last year

will he be named starter? I dunno.

does it matter much if he isn't? not a bit

Charles will get his carries and that's the only thing that matters.

Demonpenz
08-17-2010, 11:29 AM
I would laugh my ass off if we came out 5 wide or a set that didn't have a RB. THAT MEANS NO ONE IS A STARDERRRRRR

JD10367
08-17-2010, 11:40 AM
I simply read that as Haley saying he's not handing anyone a job.

And, as usual, I haven't seen so many sandy vaginas since the Swedish Bikini Team played beach volleyball. Jesus H on a raft, I swear your fanbase has some whiny motherfuckers. Some of you sound like the type that, if a Victoria's Secret supermodel knocked on your door and offered to blow you, you'd complain that she didn't bring a friend. I swear, if one day went by without a thread here that quickly devolved into either "Haley sucks", "Pioli sucks", or "Cassel sucks", the universe might implode.

KCUnited
08-17-2010, 11:52 AM
Haley pressre right now, "I wouldn't read into any depth chart."

Bowser
08-17-2010, 12:30 PM
And Eagle Eyed Adam Teicher scooped the world on our new QB. Lawl.

CoMoChief
08-17-2010, 12:36 PM
Charles needs to be on the field as much as possible, or as much as he can take without wearing him down. If rushing for over 1100 yds in 8 games, rushing over 100 yds in 6 of the 8 games he played, behind a dogshit Oline, isn't establishing a "role" in the offense, then I dont know what is and Haley needs to go if he's that ****ing stupid.

Jones is nothing more than a short yardage back that can pound it up the middle in short yardage situations. It's obvious that Charles would be less effective at that due to his size, he'd get killed, but Jones can take the beating. He's 31, he's a journeyman vet, there's a reason why he's been on a thousand teams throughout his NFL career. I'm fine w/ him being in goaline situations and 3rd n short etc, but Charles needs to start, get both him and McCluster on the field and make defenses try to catch them.

I'll say this. If Charles doesn't start and Jones gets most of the carries, then Haley is dumber than Herm.

Bowser
08-17-2010, 12:41 PM
Charles needs to be on the field.

Jones is nothing more than a short yardage back that can pound it up the middle in short yardage situations. It's obvious that Charles would be less effective at that due to his size, he'd get killed, but Jones can take the beating.

I'll say this. If Charles doesn't start and Jones gets most of the carries, then Haley is dumber than Herm.

Charles will be. This is Haley's MO; he doesn't want his young guys getting comfortable and thinking they've "made it".

Thig Lyfe
08-17-2010, 02:45 PM
Charles will be the starter, Jones will be the change-of-pace back and McCluster will fill in when Charles is getting a little too beat up. I don't see it shaking out any other way.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-17-2010, 05:35 PM
Jamaal Charles' role is not uncertain ... only his title is undetermined.

he will do all of the same things he did last year

will he be named starter? I dunno.

does it matter much if he isn't? not a bit

Charles will get his carries and that's the only thing that matters.

Well said.

milkman
08-17-2010, 06:24 PM
You can't really say that with any confidence. You never know how long a RB can stay healthy and contribute. Which is why any attempts to preserve his touches has just as big of a chance to backfire on you as it would to actually prolong his career. We could use Charles very sparingly all year in anticipation for next season, and he could break his leg in the offseason and be done for life.

RBs these days are tools. Tools that don't have a very long shelf life despite how you use them. So you get what you can out of them in the short time you have them, and discard them when they don't work anymore. You cannot rely on one specific RB to be the driving force of the offense. That's dangerous and foolhardy. And saving Charles for the right time would be doing just that.

I'd never advocate only using Charles and sitting Jones. Of course they'll split time. But Charles picked this team up last season when absolutely nothing else was working. He's always said the right things. He's been a good teammate. Despite what Jones brings to the team, it should be Charles' job to lose. Most people can see that he's earned it. And if you go by the coach's own words that the best players will be on the field, you start Charles. He's looked the best from what we've seen out of the offense so far.

Shut up dumbass.
Logic and reason have no place on the planet.

I simply read that as Haley saying he's not handing anyone a job.

And, as usual, I haven't seen so many sandy vaginas since the Swedish Bikini Team played beach volleyball. Jesus H on a raft, I swear your fanbase has some whiny mother****ers. Some of you sound like the type that, if a Victoria's Secret supermodel knocked on your door and offered to blow you, you'd complain that she didn't bring a friend. I swear, if one day went by without a thread here that quickly devolved into either "Haley sucks", "Pioli sucks", or "Cassel sucks", the universe might implode.

Damn right.
Why didn't she, dammit?

Charles will be. This is Haley's MO; he doesn't want his young guys getting comfortable and thinking they've "made it".

Yeah, just ask Matt Cassel.

BigRichard
08-17-2010, 06:39 PM
You can't really say that with any confidence. You never know how long a RB can stay healthy and contribute. Which is why any attempts to preserve his touches has just as big of a chance to backfire on you as it would to actually prolong his career. We could use Charles very sparingly all year in anticipation for next season, and he could break his leg in the offseason and be done for life.

RBs these days are tools. Tools that don't have a very long shelf life despite how you use them. So you get what you can out of them in the short time you have them, and discard them when they don't work anymore. You cannot rely on one specific RB to be the driving force of the offense. That's dangerous and foolhardy. And saving Charles for the right time would be doing just that.

I'd never advocate only using Charles and sitting Jones. Of course they'll split time. But Charles picked this team up last season when absolutely nothing else was working. He's always said the right things. He's been a good teammate. Despite what Jones brings to the team, it should be Charles' job to lose. Most people can see that he's earned it. And if you go by the coach's own words that the best players will be on the field, you start Charles. He's looked the best from what we've seen out of the offense so far.

Wouldn't you say that Charles was better then LJ last year before LJ was gone? He came in and did an awsome job. I saw shit like that from him all year long only they never kept him in the game until they had no choice. I am not reading too much into what Haley is saying here but if he isn't playing Charles as much as possible when the season opens I will be done with Haley.

FAX
08-17-2010, 06:43 PM
It isn't just "on the field" stuff, I think ... that's affecting the elevation of Charles' star, I mean ...

I think maybe it's consistency in practice, accepting and adopting coaching, classroom work, stuff like that.

It's sad in a way, because "instinctive" players who just go out and kick the living ass out of the competition on Sunday may not be the best "practice" guys, you know? Many in the NFL were not ... Lawrence Taylor, comes to mind.

This may be a flaw in Haley's philosophy.

FAX

Wallcrawler
08-17-2010, 06:45 PM
Haley knows what he is doing. He called Charles' ability spot on. Hes developing. He has good days and bad days and realizes that when he caught fire, he did it against subpar talent on the defense.

All the "Charles is teh uber best rb evaaar!!" that everyone is drooling over would be those plays he made against absolute garbage run defenses that he played against in the end of the season.


Against respectable rush defenses, teh immortal uber back became just another rb back there. Comparing his numbers against crap defenses, to his numbers against good defenses, its night and day. He goes from approaching 200 yards or breaking it, to sometimes not making it to 100 or just barely.

FAX
08-17-2010, 06:47 PM
100 yards (or just barely) against a good run defense is bad?

FAX

Wallcrawler
08-17-2010, 06:54 PM
100 yards (or just barely) against a good run defense is bad?

FAX



Not making it to 100 yards (ex..53 against the Chargers) when youre touted by your fans as belonging in the top 5 rbs in the league according to an ESPN list, yeah thats bad.

Making 100 yards against a good defense, sure thats good. Is it great? Does it put him top of that list, or justify the pedestal everyone has him on?

F*ck no.

Blowing away a shit defense for 150+, its good for the highlight reel but pretty meaningless in the big picture.

FAX
08-17-2010, 06:58 PM
Not making it to 100 yards (ex..53 against the Chargers) when youre touted by your fans as belonging in the top 5 rbs in the league according to an ESPN list, yeah thats bad.

Making 100 yards against a good defense, sure thats good. Is it great? Does it put him top of that list, or justify the pedestal everyone has him on?

F*ck no.

Blowing away a shit defense for 150+, its good for the highlight reel but pretty meaningless in the big picture.

I see your point. I guess I was just responding to the "100 yards against good defenses" comment. By my count, that's close to 1600 yards in a season.

Look, any good defense (if they want to) can stop pretty much anybody. If they key on Charles, he will not get the yards ... we both know that. It doesn't matter how fast he is ... or nimble.

Charles kinda came out of nowhere last year and surprised everybody. That won't happen this year, I promise you. The enemy will gameplan for him.

Much is yet to be determined about this offense.

FAX

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-17-2010, 06:59 PM
Haley knows what he is doing. He called Charles' ability spot on. Hes developing. He has good days and bad days and realizes that when he caught fire, he did it against subpar talent on the defense.

All the "Charles is teh uber best rb evaaar!!" that everyone is drooling over would be those plays he made against absolute garbage run defenses that he played against in the end of the season.


Against respectable rush defenses, teh immortal uber back became just another rb back there. Comparing his numbers against crap defenses, to his numbers against good defenses, its night and day. He goes from approaching 200 yards or breaking it, to sometimes not making it to 100 or just barely.


He was running behind a shit offensive line that produced a yard per carry average of under 3 when he wasn't the one carrying the ball. He averaged right under 6. Close to 6 yards a carry is ridiculous no matter who you are facing in this league. Cmon man, top players on other teams feast on the bottom feeders as well. They don't subtract yardage totals players rack up against us do they? He did just fine against a good Cincy defense.

Stinger
08-17-2010, 07:10 PM
Let's not be dumbasses

WTF .... Are you new here?

kstater
08-17-2010, 07:28 PM
Quick, everyone panic.

BigRichard
08-17-2010, 08:18 PM
Quick, everyone panic.

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo351/kalyter05/th_panic.gif

KCBOSS1
08-17-2010, 08:26 PM
I was actually pretty confused with the Thomas Jones signing overall. I am definitely confused seeing Charles start behind him. I do not want this kid frustruated, screaming for a trade in a year.

-King-
08-17-2010, 08:45 PM
I was actually pretty confused with the Thomas Jones signing overall. I am definitely confused seeing Charles start behind him. I do not want this kid frustruated, screaming for a trade in a year.

It's been one game man. Charles will still get 225 to 250 carries this year.

Von Dumbass
08-17-2010, 08:53 PM
I do not want this kid frustruated, screaming for a trade in a year.

He won't have to scream for a trade. He is a free agent after this season and can go anywhere he wants.

petegz28
08-17-2010, 09:03 PM
There is nothing wrong with starting TJ. JC will get plenty of touches. People are getting a little bent on him not being the "starter". We don't want to pound him inside, he can't take that kind of beating. TJ is not an easy tackle. The guy is built like a brick shithouse and can power run. Let TJ slam it up the middle and wear the front line of the D down a little then JC will be going apeshit on the outside.

Marcellus
08-17-2010, 10:09 PM
FSP QUICK LOOK NAVIGATION
GET NFL ADVICE. TEAM ANALYZER
Home NFL Jamaal Charles News Update
Charles not worried about role
Posted: 3 hrs 26 mins ago. | Source CBSSports.com
Jamaal Charles

He's the first man in NFL history to rush for more than 1,100 yards in fewer than 200 carries and the first Kansas City Chief with four TD runs of 40 yards or more. Jamaal Charles is also second team. So do the Chiefs have the deepest stable of quality running backs in the league? Not exactly, though newcomer Thomas Jones does have five straight 1,000-yard seasons and a wonderful gift for leadership. But the Chiefs' apparent indecisiveness over how to play their pair of aces probably has more to do with strategy and secrecy than coaches' confusion. For his part, Charles is taking a wait-and-see approach, insisting he's going to be a good teammate and try to hit whatever pitch life throws. 'Whatever happens, happens for a reason,' Charles said. 'I always believed in that. If it happens for a reason, I guess I've got to go with it. I can't do nothing about it.' [...]

Read more: http://www.fantasysp.com/player/nfl/Jamaal_Charles/1105357#ixzz0wvJ0N9Gb

Wallcrawler
08-17-2010, 11:00 PM
I see your point. I guess I was just responding to the "100 yards against good defenses" comment. By my count, that's close to 1600 yards in a season.

Look, any good defense (if they want to) can stop pretty much anybody. If they key on Charles, he will not get the yards ... we both know that. It doesn't matter how fast he is ... or nimble.

Charles kinda came out of nowhere last year and surprised everybody. That won't happen this year, I promise you. The enemy will gameplan for him.

Much is yet to be determined about this offense.

FAX

The o-line is improved slightly, but not nearly enough that he will have a repeat performance of what he did without a full on resurrection of biblical proportions of the Chiefs passing game.

Cassel has to be able to loosen up the defense. Jamal Charles is now Jamal Charles. Not "this guy that was backing up Larry Johnson" like he was last season. As you said, teams will be gameplanning this guy, I dont think he's going to surprise anyone.

Its going to be up to Cassel and the passing attack to make sure he has even an opportunity to be successful, or else its gonna be 8 man fronts all game, and that repaired shoulder is going to get one hell of a test.


Thomas Jones may not be flashy, but he's consistent, he doesnt fumble the football, and hes a tough SOB. I think the Chiefs are better for it having signed him.

Ive never really liked the RB by committee stuff, but here I think there really isnt much choice.

I wouldnt stake the health of Jamal Charles on Cassel's ability to relinquish his crown as king of the checkdown. Jamal's gonna need some help back there and really as long as he contributes in the games on sundays it shouldnt matter what number he is on the depth chart.

milkman
08-17-2010, 11:05 PM
You're high if you think a RB with speed and elusiveness needs more help getting yards than a power RB does.

Wallcrawler
08-17-2010, 11:40 PM
You're high if you think a RB with speed and elusiveness needs more help getting yards than a power RB does.

*toke* *toke*

Tssssssssssssssssss...............


what?

Chiefs Pantalones
08-18-2010, 07:14 PM
It isn't just "on the field" stuff, I think ... that's affecting the elevation of Charles' star, I mean ...

I think maybe it's consistency in practice, accepting and adopting coaching, classroom work, stuff like that.

It's sad in a way, because "instinctive" players who just go out and kick the living ass out of the competition on Sunday may not be the best "practice" guys, you know? Many in the NFL were not ... Lawrence Taylor, comes to mind.

This may be a flaw in Haley's philosophy.

FAX

Derrick Thomas was the same later in his career. Heck dude had a pot belly. He was all talent.

I think Charles will be the starter. Yes, Jones did have like 1400 yards during the season, but he wore down; his age wore him down, you can't . The emergence of Greene came late in the season and during the playoffs. You have a guy like Jones, now, to be the short yardage goal line guy. Not the way the Chiefs are doing it; which is backwards IMO.

The Chiefs are the only team in the league that would make Jones their starter. I agree with posters that say the only reason they are making Jones the starter NOW is because he's a great locker room guy and they want to make a good example out of him.

IMO, though, if they keep Charles as the backup it would be like the Titans starting Javon Ringer over Chris Johnson because of the same reasons the Chiefs' brass is saying. If you have a baller, you play him.