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View Full Version : Obama Is Obama intentionally stalling the economic recovery? The Obama-Pivin Economic Plan


healthpellets
08-17-2010, 02:12 PM
It's an interesting theory. One that you should read. I'll post a couple of excerpts, but you really need to go read the whole thing.

http://pajamasmedia.com/zombie/2010/08/16/the-obama-piven-strategy/?singlepage=true

We are in the middle of an epochal struggle over the direction of American economic policy.

The Democrats, who are currently in charge, want to follow a Keynesian model, which entails massive government spending — with its attendant tax increases and soaring deficit — to jump-start the economy.

The Republicans think the solution to our economic doldrums is to lower taxes and decrease spending, to stimulate business activity and help the nation climb out of its crippling debt.

And then there’s Barack Obama….

You might think he would be the natural spokesman for the Democratic strategy. And when the cameras are turned on, he is. But under the surface he’s also an advocate for a third economic policy, one that isn’t spoken of in polite company: The Cloward-Piven Strategy.

--snip--

The Cloward-Piven Strategy, for those of you unfamiliar with it, was named after its formulators, two Columbia University sociologists named Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. In an influential 1966 essay published in The Nation magazine, they outlined a strategy through which every American would receive a nationwide “guaranteed annual income.”

To bring this about, they essentially recommended that as many people as possible should be enrolled in government welfare programs so as to intentionally bankrupt the system; our elected officials would then feel politically compelled to create an overarching permanent drastic solution to the welfare problem, restructuring our free-market economy along socialistic lines — what the authors described as “the outright redistribution of income".

--snip--

That’s because there is a bit of Cloward-Piven inherent in Keynesian theory itself. When Nancy Pelosi in all seriousness announces (as she did) that indefinitely extended unemployment benefits are a great way to stimulate the economy, then we’ve seemingly crossed the frontier into Cloud-Cuckoo-Land. Or have we? The original goal of Cloward-Piven, after all, was to bring about a “guaranteed annual income” for all Americans, and wouldn’t the arrival of permanent unemployment benefits for everyone essentially bring us to the same station, albeit by a different track

HonestChieffan
08-17-2010, 02:15 PM
I doubt it. Obama has not been able to really do anything he set out to and been successful at it so even if this was his goal I dont see his chance for success as very high.

KC Dan
08-17-2010, 02:17 PM
"Paging Mr. Beck. Mr. Beck, you are wanted on aisle five. Paging Mr. Beck"

healthpellets
08-17-2010, 02:18 PM
"Paging Mr. Beck. Mr. Beck, you are wanted on aisle five. Paging Mr. Beck"

is beck pimping this now? seems to be his style, stealing talking points from people. but i don't have FNC, so i'll have to take your word for it.

Calcountry
08-17-2010, 02:29 PM
I doubt it. Obama has not been able to really do anything he set out to and been successful at it so even if this was his goal I dont see his chance for success as very high."Let me be clear......"

KC native
08-17-2010, 02:58 PM
JFC Obama stalling the economic recovery? Please tell me that you took this tripe with a grain of salt. The content is so whacked out it doesn't even deserve a rebuttal.

healthpellets
08-17-2010, 03:01 PM
JFC Obama stalling the economic recovery? Please tell me that you took this tripe with a grain of salt. The content is so whacked out it doesn't even deserve a rebuttal.

it took you till the 6th post to respond? i figured you and Brainiac would have been 1 and 2 and spitting at each other by now. :)

KC native
08-17-2010, 03:02 PM
it took you till the 6th post to respond? i figured you and Brainiac would have been 1 and 2 and spitting at each other by now. :)

Been busy. I haven't been on CP very much lately.

HonestChieffan
08-17-2010, 03:30 PM
Been busy. I haven't been on CP very much lately.

They having you sweep floors and work in mail room too?

The Mad Crapper
08-19-2010, 08:27 AM
http://www.moonbattery.com/benhelicopterflames.jpg

The Mad Crapper
03-02-2011, 03:04 PM
March 2, 2011
NPR Reinvents Frances Fox Piven as Harmless Victim

Canadian-born ultra-radical leftist Frances Fox Piven is coauthor of the Cloward-Piven strategy, which calls for placing impossible demands on the welfare state, collapsing the American economy so as to clear the way for Soviet-style communism. The strategy was used to bankrupt New York City in the 1970s, and remains the only coherent explanation for Barack Hussein Obama's obviously unsustainable economic policy. To this day, Piven remains a violent revolutionary committed to collectivist totalitarianism.

But in the alternate reality fabricated by National Public Radio, she's a lovable old lady and victim of the nasty Glenn Beck's rhetoric:

Glenn Beck calls her one of the most dangerous people in the world.

"I'm about 5-foot-6," Frances Fox Piven tells Weekends on All Things Considered host Guy Raz. "I'm 78 years old. My hair is partly grey. I'm quite thin."

Piven is a professor at the City College of New York. In 1966, she and her late husband, Richard Cloward, wrote an article for The Nation outlining a plan to help the poor of New York and other big cities to get on welfare.

In their research, they found that not all the poor who were eligible to receive welfare actually did. They advocated that all the nation's eligible poor should apply. They felt such a strain to city budgets would force Washington to address the poverty problem.
Forty-five years later, Beck took to the airwaves of Fox News and his own radio program, warning the public about the obscure article.

"Let me introduce you to the people who you would say are fundamentally responsible for the unsustainability and possible collapse of our economic system. They're really two people," he said, "Cloward and Piven."

For about the last three months, week after week, Beck's been hammering away at Piven and her husband. From their 45-year-old article, he sees a vast conspiracy to overthrow the American financial system.

NPR pules that Beck's "factually untrue, crazy story" has led people to wish cancer upon poor Frances. The devil's best trick is to persuade you that he doesn't exist — or that he's just a sweet old lady who cares about the poor.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that NPR backs the Cloward-Piven strategy to the hilt. When the free market has been destroyed, it won't have any competition from radio stations that don't need to rely on coercion to generate revenue.

Vladimir Lenin said that capitalists would sell the rope used to hang them. But that's not how it works where public broadcasting is concerned. The rope is confiscated by Big Government in the interests of creating Even Bigger Government.

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2011/03/npr-reinvents-f.html

http://www.moonbattery.com/Frances-Fox-Piven.jpg
Evil communist witch Frances Fox Piven.

Cave Johnson
03-02-2011, 03:19 PM
Y'all are so retarded it makes my head hurt.

The Mad Crapper
03-02-2011, 03:23 PM
Y'all are so retarded it makes my head hurt.

Is this your mom?

http://www.moonbattery.com/Frances-Fox-Piven.jpg
Evil communist witch Frances Fox Piven.

The Mad Crapper
03-02-2011, 03:30 PM
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/various_uploads/Movies_to_the_Masses_160.jpg

"But not to worry comrade, Obama has plan, the world will once again feel the fist of revolutionary social justice."

BucEyedPea
03-02-2011, 03:44 PM
It can't just be Obama doing it, if it's true. He'd have to have help. Could it be Bernanke? He said cutting spending would hurt the economy. LMAO Combine that with Keynes quote on destroying capitalism by debauching the currency.

stevieray
03-02-2011, 05:04 PM
banks. check
mortgages. check
auto industry. check
health care. check
student loans. check
1/6th of the economy. check
1 in 13 on government payroll. check
suspend drilling while paying others to drill. check
debt, defecit and spending on steroids. check
highest foreclosures. check
states in bankruptcy. check
extended unemployment benefits. check
union bosses in back pocket. check
czars and advisors who don't believe in capitalism. check
spiritual advisor who is Marxist, and endorses redistributing the wealth. check
civil unrest increasing. check

top down. check.
bottom up. check
inside out......

higher food prices, higher gas prices.



it can only go two ways. rebound or total collaspe...therefore, never losing on an opportunity of a crisis, can usher in the hope and change he envisoned in the dreams from his father.

they tell you who they are.

if Beck is a fear monger, then stating and replaying their own words must be too scary to admit that it could be true.

Jenson71
03-02-2011, 05:24 PM
banks. check
mortgages. check
auto industry. check
health care. check
student loans. check
1/6th of the economy. check
1 in 13 on government payroll. check
suspend drilling while paying others to drill. check
debt, defecit and spending on steroids. check
highest foreclosures. check
states in bankruptcy. check
extended unemployment benefits. check
union bosses in back pocket. check
czars and advisors who don't believe in capitalism. check
spiritual advisor who is Marxist, and endorses redistributing the wealth. check
civil unrest increasing. check

top down. check.
bottom up. check
inside out......

higher food prices, higher gas prices.



it can only go two ways. rebound or total collaspe...therefore, never losing on an opportunity of a crisis, can usher in the hope and change he envisoned in the dreams from his father.

they tell you who they are.

if Beck is a fear monger, then stating and replaying their own words must be too scary to admit that it could be true.

These are the desperate words of a hard-working person who has been damaged by this recession.

HonestChieffan
03-02-2011, 06:31 PM
It can't just be Obama doing it, if it's true. He'd have to have help. Could it be Bernanke? He said cutting spending would hurt the economy. LMAO Combine that with Keynes quote on destroying capitalism by debauching the currency.

Who are his puppet masters?

banyon
03-02-2011, 09:24 PM
This is pretty f*cking stupid.

Saul's thread said it well.

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 06:50 AM
This is pretty f*cking stupid.

Saul's thread said it well.

"this is stupid"

"you're a retard"

blah blah blah. :rolleyes:

Moonbats can't stand to look at their emporer in his birthday suit. They defend him with such passion and fanaticism, but never seem to come up with anything good to say about his pathetic ass. All they can do is throw rocks at people critical of him and WHO WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG. I'm still waiting for all the threads they said that they would start because they were always crying about other peoples threads.

Just another day of Hopey Change™...


Oil gained for a second day in New York, rising from the highest close in 29 months, as protests in Iran stoked concern the turmoil spreading across the Middle East may disrupt supplies from OPEC’s second-largest producer.

Futures gained as much as 1 percent after demonstrators clashed with security forces in Tehran yesterday. Iran pumped 3.7 million barrels a day in February, according to Bloomberg estimates. Saudi Arabia’s benchmark stock index plunged the most in two years yesterday on concern disturbances may extend to the kingdom, the biggest supplier in the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries. Libyan rebels braced for renewed clashes with forces loyal to leader Muammar Qaddafi.

http://www.bloomberg.com/

The failed bank list:

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html

A study of renewable energy in Scotland shows that for every job created in the alternative energy sector, almost four jobs are lost in the rest of the economy. We've seen this movie before.

Not only has the sun set on the British Empire, but the promise of wind apparently is deserting it as well. A new study called "Worth The Candle?" by the consulting firm Verso Economics confirms the experience of Spain and other countries: The creation of "green" jobs destroys other jobs through the diversion of resources and the denial of abundant sources of fossil fuel energy.

The economic candle in the U.K. is being blown out by wind power. The Verso study finds that after the annual diversion of some 330 million British pounds from the rest of the U.K. economy, the result has been the destruction of 3.7 jobs for every "green" job created.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/564579/201103011820/How-Green-Is-Your-Lost-Job-.htm


While producer price inflation has not taken hold in the US, it is bound to. Costs of asia’s factory goods are up and Europe flanks America on the other side of the world. Energy, metal, and other commodities prices are always global eventually. Now, factories and wholesalers in every major country will try to pass these costs on to consumers.

Some of the press and economists say there is a case to be made for another recession in the developed world. Energy costs will sap the ability of the consumer to spend. The inflation that affects the price of consumer goods will not be recouped at the retail level. Retailers and manufacturers will have their financial fortunes damaged.



Read more: Producer Prices In Europe Turn Ugly - 24/7 Wall St. http://247wallst.com/2011/03/02/producer-prices-in-europe-turn-ugly/#ixzz1FRpX7LL0

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The number of planned layoffs at U.S. firms rose in February to its highest level in 11 months as government and non-profit employers let workers go, a report showed on Wednesday.

Employers announced 50,702 planned job cuts last month, the highest level since March 2010 and a jump of 32 percent from January's 38,519, according to the report from consultants Challenger, Gray & Christmas, Inc. Layoffs were 20 percent higher than the 42,090 announced in February of last year, marking the first year-over-year increase since May 2009.

Even so, the report said the pace of job cutting remains relatively subdued. Job cuts for January and February stand at 89,211, well below the 113,572 job cuts that were announced in the first two months of 2010.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/February-planned-layoffs-rb-2340148162.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=

The Obamajungend and SEUI security apparatus will always have "work."

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k135/raybbr/freeper/chainssm.jpg



Hopey Change™


http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Obama_Coin_ExactChange_160.gif


Barack Hussein Obama!

Mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Amnorix
03-03-2011, 07:20 AM
Words don't begin to describe how absurd this is.

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 07:26 AM
Words don't begin to describe how absurd this is.

It is absurd when an idiot like Obama can get elected POTUS.

http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/102808_nuobamaonobama.jpg

Radar Chief
03-03-2011, 07:43 AM
I didn’t bother reading the whole thing because the premise is ridiculous. This is an election year, this isn’t the time for the electorate to be disgruntled with how things are going. If he knew how to influence the economy that well it’d be trending up and if the Teleprompter had any rabbits to pull out of his hat we’d be seeing it by now.

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 07:48 AM
I didn’t bother reading the whole thing because the premise is ridiculous. This is an election year, this isn’t the time for the electorate to be disgruntled with how things are going. If he knew how to influence the economy that well it’d be trending up and if the Teleprompter had any rabbits to pull out of his hat we’d be seeing it by now.

Obamacare and Porkulus were/are two monstrously damaging policies to an already fragile economy.

I know that B.O. surrounds himself with Marxist idiots, but enough pragmatists and legitimate bussinessmen and economists have had his ear long enough to tell him of the folly he was about to embark on-- but he would not listen.

Either he is a moron, or he's doing it on purpose. It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility or probability.

Radar Chief
03-03-2011, 07:51 AM
Either he is a moron, or he's doing it on purpose. It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility or probability.

:hmmm:

Dick Bull
03-03-2011, 07:51 AM
It is absurd when an idiot like Obama can get elected POTUS.

http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/102808_nuobamaonobama.jpg

I'm pretty sure we get the gist of your message. You've been posting your narrowminded rhetoric for a while now.

It's to the point when I see your name on a post I know what you're gonna say.

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 07:55 AM
banks. check
mortgages. check
auto industry. check
health care. check
student loans. check
1/6th of the economy. check
1 in 13 on government payroll. check
suspend drilling while paying others to drill. check
debt, defecit and spending on steroids. check
highest foreclosures. check
states in bankruptcy. check
extended unemployment benefits. check
union bosses in back pocket. check
czars and advisors who don't believe in capitalism. check
spiritual advisor who is Marxist, and endorses redistributing the wealth. check
civil unrest increasing. check

top down. check.
bottom up. check
inside out......

higher food prices, higher gas prices.



it can only go two ways. rebound or total collaspe...therefore, never losing on an opportunity of a crisis, can usher in the hope and change he envisoned in the dreams from his father.

they tell you who they are.

if Beck is a fear monger, then stating and replaying their own words must be too scary to admit that it could be true.

:bravo:

Great post.

chiefsnorth
03-03-2011, 08:34 AM
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

BucEyedPea
03-03-2011, 08:51 AM
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

How 'bout both? Malice and stupidity.


Then again Obama is following FDR, our first red president. Holy hell, the people think FDR waved them from capitalism too! Stoooooooooopid!

LOCOChief
03-03-2011, 08:54 AM
These are the desperate words of a hard-working person who has been damaged by this recession.

those are the words of someone who has their eye on the ball and knows what is happening to their country.

InChiefsHell
03-03-2011, 09:08 AM
Words don't begin to describe how absurd this is.

Absurd maybe, but not necessarily untrue...

Jenson71
03-03-2011, 09:09 AM
those are the words of someone who has their eye on the ball and knows what is happening to their country.

No, man. Stevieray is part of a population that has little grasp on political and economic realities other than knowing firsthand that times are bad. If you follow stevieray's posts, you'll find out that his views are highly tuned by populist, right-wing rhetoric mostly led by Glenn Beck, who is being denounced by many, even those who share his right-wing agenda, as conspiratorial and divorced from reality.

Stevieray is most assuredly a good worker, a good father, a good husband, and he's played by the rules. But he is easily led astray but seemingly easy answers, nostalgic rhetoric, and shallow anger, as many are in hard times.

chiefsnorth
03-03-2011, 09:14 AM
No, man. Stevieray is part of a population that has little grasp on political and economic realities other than knowing firsthand that times are bad.

Like a college liberal?

InChiefsHell
03-03-2011, 09:14 AM
No, man. Stevieray is part of a population that has little grasp on political and economic realities other than knowing firsthand that times are bad. If you follow stevieray's posts, you'll find out that his views are highly tuned by populist, right-wing rhetoric mostly led by Glenn Beck, who is being denounced by many, even those who share his right-wing agenda, as conspiratorial and divorced from reality.

Stevieray is most assuredly a good worker, a good father, a good husband, and he's played by the rules. But he is easily led astray but seemingly easy answers, nostalgic rhetoric, and shallow anger, as many are in hard times.

Careful Jenson. Stick that nose any higher in the air and we'll all see your boogers...

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 09:24 AM
those are the words of someone who has their eye on the ball and knows what is happening to their country.

Some people just don't appreciate Hopey Change™. People who are bitter and cling to guns and religion. Typical white people.

LOCOChief
03-03-2011, 09:25 AM
No, man. Stevieray is part of a population that has little grasp on political and economic realities other than knowing firsthand that times are bad. If you follow stevieray's posts, you'll find out that his views are highly tuned by populist, right-wing rhetoric mostly led by Glenn Beck, who is being denounced by many, even those who share his right-wing agenda, as conspiratorial and divorced from reality.

Stevieray is most assuredly a good worker, a good father, a good husband, and he's played by the rules. But he is easily led astray but seemingly easy answers, nostalgic rhetoric, and shallow anger, as many are in hard times.

Thank God for folks like you that have got it all figured out for the rest of us. And as far as Glen Beck goes, even though he's a goofball he still gets some wood on ball.
People that say otherwise have been fooled by those who have poisoned the well.

InChiefsHell
03-03-2011, 09:29 AM
Thank God for folks like you that have got it all figured out for the rest of us. And as far as Glen Beck goes, even though he's a goofball he still gets some wood on ball.
People that say otherwise have been fooled by those who have poisoned the well.

Indeed. Beck "has been denounced by many"...so what the hell does that have to do with anything? That's not even an argument...and this guy is colluge ejumacated...

BucEyedPea
03-03-2011, 10:10 AM
Careful Jenson. Stick that nose any higher in the air and we'll all see your boogers...

Seems to me he was describing himself. He's been in an Ivory Tower for how long?

ChiefaRoo
03-03-2011, 10:56 AM
Jenson = faux intellectual.

SNR
03-03-2011, 12:08 PM
I've missed these threads.

This forum has lost its burst. Stick a fork in it.

Calcountry
03-03-2011, 12:17 PM
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.Pride goes before a fall.

Calcountry
03-03-2011, 12:22 PM
Thank God for folks like you that have got it all figured out for the rest of us. And as far as Glen Beck goes, even though he's a goofball he still gets some wood on ball.
People that say otherwise have been fooled by those who have poisoned the well.They are called elitists, and there is room for THEM at the table. Us plebes need to get in line for their crumbs.

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 12:45 PM
I've missed these threads.

This forum has lost its burst. Stick a fork in it.

Two years ago, when B.O. got elected, did you think that today we would be having conversations like this? Where we debate whether Obama is nefarious or just plain stupid? Or did you think all that "hope" and "change" was going to be something real cool and special? And guys like jAZ and Penchief would here every day, starting thread after thread of what a grand slam job the big O is doing? Gitmo would be closed? The troops would all be home? Unemployment would be 5%?

Hydrae
03-03-2011, 12:47 PM
Indeed. Beck "has been denounced by many"...so what the hell does that have to do with anything? That's not even an argument...and this guy is colluge ejumacated...

I should send the shirt my kids gave me for Christmas to Jenson, I think the saying would fit better for him than me (although it fits me to an extent also).


"Those who think they know everything annoy those of us who do."

SNR
03-03-2011, 12:57 PM
Two years ago, when B.O. got elected, did you think that today we would be having conversations like this? Where we debate whether Obama is nefarious or just plain stupid? Or did you think all that "hope" and "change" was going to be something real cool and special? And guys like jAZ and Penchief would here every day, starting thread after thread of what a grand slam job the big O is doing? Gitmo would be closed? The troops would all be home? Unemployment would be 5%?

Essentially, I thought we'd get to the 2012 election and Obama would say (I'm paraphrasing here) something like, "Oh, shoot. I know the economy's still in the shitter and we're still involved in all kinds of military escapades. You know, I had a real mess to clean up. Even though I promised you guys a bunch of goodies, I just ran out of time to complete everything on my to do list. But tell you what, give me another term and I promise you I'll get straight back to work on that hope and change. This time I can for certain promise you all the goodies. Keep believing and hoping for a better America. Yes we can."

I'm waiting for his campaign speeches next year to see if I was right

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 01:03 PM
Essentially, I thought we'd get to the 2012 election and Obama would say (I'm paraphrasing here) something like, "Oh, shoot. I know the economy's still in the shitter

I see. So the 5 trillion dollars he added to the national debt was just for ha ha's.

SNR
03-03-2011, 01:13 PM
I see. So the 5 trillion dollars he added to the national debt was just for ha ha's.I assume it was part of his plan. I and many others just happen to think it was a crap plan

Calcountry
03-03-2011, 01:18 PM
Two years ago, when B.O. got elected, did you think that today we would be having conversations like this? Where we debate whether Obama is nefarious or just plain stupid? Or did you think all that "hope" and "change" was going to be something real cool and special? And guys like jAZ and Penchief would here every day, starting thread after thread of what a grand slam job the big O is doing? Gitmo would be closed? The troops would all be home? Unemployment would be 5%?And the media, who trumpeted with bells pictures and whistles, every time a single one of our soldiers tragically demised, fail to act as if a war is going on now.

Calcountry
03-03-2011, 01:18 PM
I see. So the 5 trillion dollars he added to the national debt was just for ha ha's.That was Bush's fault.

Calcountry
03-03-2011, 01:19 PM
I see. So the 5 trillion dollars he added to the national debt was just for ha ha's.Just think of how much worse the economy would be if he had not pissed the money to his Union buddies.

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 01:20 PM
I assume it was part of his plan. I and many others just happen to think it was a crap plan

Has he done anything good?

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 01:21 PM
That was Bush's fault.

That pretty much sounds like B.O.'s campaign strategy for 2012.

InChiefsHell
03-03-2011, 01:27 PM
Has he done anything good?

Well, he's certainly stimulated a bunch of arguing, fighting and vitriol here and abroad. Don't know if that's good, but he's certainly good at it...

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 01:31 PM
The problem all of our kids will live with. America's first black president has taken a truly historic and promising event and used it to plunder the future. Barry's America, where race is used as a bludgeon to squelch honest debate and the weight of government is brought to bear on political enemies. With the help of corrupt union bosses, who tax their members for leftist largesse, he and his party are enriched. The only community Obama has ever organized is the basket case known as Chicago's 13th district. We're all Southside now.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-U0rU7BrN5hM/TW_lYE0By9I/AAAAAAAAAoM/1N-FpfgUeBQ/s1600/Wreckonomics.jpg

http://daletoons.blogspot.com/

Garcia Bronco
03-03-2011, 01:37 PM
Y'all are so retarded it makes my head hurt.

Dipshit. "Y'all" is singular. "All Y'all" is plural.

Jenson71
03-03-2011, 01:52 PM
Thank God for folks like you that have got it all figured out for the rest of us. And as far as Glen Beck goes, even though he's a goofball he still gets some wood on ball.
People that say otherwise have been fooled by those who have poisoned the well.

People that think Obama wants to destroy America by implementing some sort of 'overloading the system' scheme, and use this stunning analysis of the evidence:

banks. check mortgages. check auto industry. check health care. check student loans. check 1/6th of the economy. check 1 in 13 on government payroll. check suspend drilling while paying others to drill. check debt, defecit and spending on steroids. check highest foreclosures. check states in bankruptcy. check extended unemployment benefits. check union bosses in back pocket. check czars and advisors who don't believe in capitalism. check spiritual advisor who is Marxist, and endorses redistributing the wealth. check civil unrest increasing. check

top down. check.
bottom up. check
inside out......

higher food prices, higher gas prices.

it can only go two ways. rebound or total collaspe...therefore, never losing on an opportunity of a crisis, can usher in the hope and change he envisoned in the dreams from his father.

they tell you who they are.

need to be ridiculed. This is a person who is fed this analysis and actually bases his political arguments on them. This is ridiculous, and our country doesn't survive, and it won't thrive, if a pack of morons who spew ridiculous statements and unorganized data suddenly find themselves in power. Twenty years from now, people will say, "My God! That was so ridiculous! Why didn't anyone say anything?" Well, here I am. I'm saying something. Just like Germans in 1931 went around repeating things like "higher food prices. check, civil unrest. check, jewish leaders from the top down. check, jewish leaders from the bottom up. check" we look at and say "Why didn't you say anything!" I'm calling it out. Glenn Beck has a significant, but thankfully diminishing audience, who go around and send death wishes to Frances Fox Piven (?) and talk about a coming insurrection. I won't be silent about it for fear that I'll come off a little snobby. If that's what it takes to curb lunacy, hate, and senselessness, then I'll carry that burden.

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 01:54 PM
This is ridiculous, and our country doesn't survive, and it won't thrive, if a pack of morons who spew ridiculous statements and unorganized data suddenly find themselves in power.

Sounds like somebody we know.

http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv123/Gardnerius/Animated%20gifs%20for%20boards/hrzfab.gif

InChiefsHell
03-03-2011, 02:04 PM
This is a person who is fed this analysis and actually bases his political arguments on them. This is ridiculous, and our country doesn't survive, and it won't thrive, if a pack of morons who spew ridiculous statements and unorganized data suddenly find themselves in power. Twenty years from now, people will say, "My God! That was so ridiculous! Why didn't anyone say anything?" Well, here I am. I'm saying something. Just like Germans in 1931 went around repeating things like "higher food prices. check, civil unrest. check, jewish leaders from the top down. check, jewish leaders from the bottom up. check" we look at and say "Why didn't you say anything!" I'm calling it out. Glenn Beck has a significant, but thankfully diminishing audience, who go around and send death wishes to Frances Fox Piven (?) and talk about a coming insurrection. I won't be silent about it for fear that I'll come off a little snobby. If that's what it takes to curb lunacy, hate, and senselessness, then I'll carry that burden.

Oh, what sweet irony. The whole post. Sweet sweet irony...

Calcountry
03-03-2011, 02:09 PM
People that think Obama wants to destroy America by implementing some sort of 'overloading the system' scheme, and use this stunning analysis of the evidence:



need to be ridiculed. This is a person who is fed this analysis and actually bases his political arguments on them. This is ridiculous, and our country doesn't survive, and it won't thrive, if a pack of morons who spew ridiculous statements and unorganized data suddenly find themselves in power. Twenty years from now, people will say, "My God! That was so ridiculous! Why didn't anyone say anything?" Well, here I am. I'm saying something. Just like Germans in 1931 went around repeating things like "higher food prices. check, civil unrest. check, jewish leaders from the top down. check, jewish leaders from the bottom up. check" we look at and say "Why didn't you say anything!" I'm calling it out. Glenn Beck has a significant, but thankfully diminishing audience, who go around and send death wishes to Frances Fox Piven (?) and talk about a coming insurrection. I won't be silent about it for fear that I'll come off a little snobby. If that's what it takes to curb lunacy, hate, and senselessness, then I'll carry that burden.What a difficult cross for you to bear. :rolleyes:

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 02:11 PM
What a difficult cross for you to bear. :rolleyes:

"I won't be silent about it for fear that I'll come off a little snobby"

A little?

LMAO

InChiefsHell
03-03-2011, 02:12 PM
"I won't be silent about it for fear that I'll come off a little snobby"

A little?

LMAO

Hey now, Jenson is a brave brave man. It takes a lot of guts to look down on the little people and tell it like it is.

Jenson71
03-03-2011, 02:21 PM
What a difficult cross for you to bear. :rolleyes:

I don't want to sound like the bad guy. I don't want to be mean and tell people that they are acting like puppets for an ignorant talking head who has never actually studied the issues he gives lectures on daily to his hundreds of thousands of adoring fans. I wish I didn't have to, but I can't run from the situation. I can't pretend like it doesn't exist. It does exist. It's right here on this message board! I have to respond. It's a moral obligation.

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 02:22 PM
I don't want to sound like the bad guy. I don't want to be mean and tell people that they are acting like puppets for an ignorant talking head who has never actually studied the issues he gives lectures on daily to his hundreds of thousands of adoring fans.

Are you talking about Obama?

Jenson71
03-03-2011, 02:24 PM
People come up to me on the street and say, "Jenson, isn't this America? Can't I believe in these things? Can't I believe that Obama is really a Muslim-atheist, Communist-Fascist, Environmentalist-Corporatist?"

And I say, "Yes, of course you can. You can even say these things while you walk down the public highway. But I'm going to verbally assault you. I'm going to verbally rip your asshole apart."

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 02:24 PM
Oh, what sweet irony. The whole post. Sweet sweet irony...

It's astounding.

Jenson71
03-03-2011, 02:27 PM
Here is a picture of Frances Fox Pivin from 2013 (she's in the back):

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/nazioccupation/images/Jews%20from%20the%20Mlawa%20Ghetto.jpg

In 2053, a father and son have just finished watching Dylan's List in 6-D. Son looks up: "Why didn't people say anything! It was so ridiculous." Father: "Some people did. Jenson71 did. But people didn't want to listen."

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 02:29 PM
I'm going to verbally rip your asshole apart."

ROFL

http://www.moonbattery.com/ReallyRageGirl.jpg

Cave Johnson
03-03-2011, 02:29 PM
Dipshit. "Y'all" is singular. "All Y'all" is plural.

See usage 2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y'all

chiefsnorth
03-03-2011, 03:01 PM
I don't want to sound like the bad guy. I don't want to be mean and tell people that they are acting like puppets for an ignorant talking head who has never actually studied the issues he gives lectures on daily to his hundreds of thousands of adoring fans. I wish I didn't have to, but I can't run from the situation. I can't pretend like it doesn't exist. It does exist. It's right here on this message board! I have to respond. It's a moral obligation.

As if some neckbeard living in a college dorm could lecture we taxpayers on the real world. :LOL:

Jenson71
03-03-2011, 03:04 PM
As if some neckbeard living in a college dorm could lecture we taxpayers on the real world. :LOL:

But Glenn Beck's lectures (literally, he lectures at a chalkboard) are valid, you think?

Otter
03-03-2011, 03:04 PM
Here is a picture of Frances Fox Pivin from 2013 (she's in the back):



In 2053, a father and son have just finished watching Dylan's List in 6-D. Son looks up: "Why didn't people say anything! It was so ridiculous." Father: "Some people did. Jenson71 did. But people didn't want to listen."


ROFL

WTF, KC Johnny?

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 03:05 PM
As if some neckbeard living in a college dorm could lecture we taxpayers on the real world. :LOL:

LMAO

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 03:06 PM
People come up to me on the street and say,

No they don't. :rolleyes: :doh!:

Jenson71
03-03-2011, 03:11 PM
What do people think when they watch Glenn Beck? I can even dream up the possible thought process.

Here's a guy who is constantly talking about the Founding Fathers and Middle East history and economic policy. Has he ever taken an advanced class on the subject? No. No, what he's done is have a radio show for several years. That's it! He's had a radio show! And he's lecturing everyone about the future of an Islamic caliphate. This guy doesn't have a single clue about anything he talks about the next day until his staff of writers put it on paper.

And some of you people go "Geee!! This guy knows what he's talking about!!"

Jenson71
03-03-2011, 03:12 PM
And some of you people go "Geee!! This guy knows what he's talking about!!"

WHY!?!?

Because he's got a TV show now!!?!?!?

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 03:16 PM
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv123/Gardnerius/Animated%20gifs%20for%20boards/hrzfab.gif

Jenson71
03-03-2011, 03:17 PM
Or is it because you say "Gosh! I didn't understand American economic policies five minutes ago, but now that Glenn has just described it as 'When everyone had cupcakes in the 1950s, and now the cupcakes are gone' I've got a good grasp of it -- AND BOY AM I ANGRY."

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 03:19 PM
http://www.moonbattery.com/Frances-Fox-Piven.jpg
Evil communist witch Frances Fox Piven.

Jenson71
03-03-2011, 03:19 PM
My favorite Beck tactic: every day for the week, show a random clip of random Joe Sandles at some rally talking about hating conservatives, and demonstrate it as the conclusive evidence of a left-wing plot to destroy American values.

Jaric
03-03-2011, 03:21 PM
Actually, I think he's just a liberal. No nefarious scheme.

It's just that liberal policies tend to have the unintended consequence of ruining our economy. Because they end up costing alot and make the government grow. Same thing happens when "conservatives" spend money we don't have on shit we don't need.

Jaric
03-03-2011, 03:22 PM
Or is it because you say "Gosh! I didn't understand American economic policies five minutes ago, but now that Glenn has just described it as 'When everyone had cupcakes in the 1950s, and now the cupcakes are gone' I've got a good grasp of it -- AND BOY AM I ANGRY."

Wait, the cupcakes are FUCKING GONE?!?!?!

:bang::bang:

stevieray
03-03-2011, 05:39 PM
LMAO

...and I thought my ex was psycho.

chiefsnorth
03-03-2011, 05:43 PM
But Glenn Beck's lectures (literally, he lectures at a chalkboard) are valid, you think?

I'm not sure of they are or not. Much like a college liberal and a W-2, I've never seen Beck's program.

The Mad Crapper
03-03-2011, 06:03 PM
Jenson's motoring!
What's your price for flight!
In finding mister right!

Jenson71
03-03-2011, 07:09 PM
LMAO

...and I thought my ex was psycho.

I am shocked to hear that you have a history of poor decision making of human character.

Jenson71
03-03-2011, 07:11 PM
I'm not sure of they are or not. Much like a college liberal and a W-2, I've never seen Beck's program.

Why not?

chiefsnorth
03-03-2011, 07:38 PM
Why not?

Several reasons. I don't watch a lot of cable news, or tv period. I also understand it's on in the afternoon, at which time many people such as myself are working.

Third, I don't really like him. I have heard smaller chunks of his radio show and find him abrasive, regardless of how our beliefs might line up. I find Hannity to be abrasive too. Of all these taking heads I only really like Limbaugh.

stevieray
03-03-2011, 09:02 PM
I am shocked to hear that you have a history of poor decision making of human character.
and you don't like me either! eleventybillion1

LMAO

The Mad Crapper
03-04-2011, 02:55 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8Ju8GQ56oQA/TE0dacjWCpI/AAAAAAAABZg/3MREu4MBcWE/s1600/Stimulus_Shark_post.jpg

InChiefsHell
03-07-2011, 06:27 AM
SO Jenson's yardstick for measuring intelligence is weather or not a guy went to college? Understandable, considering he's a college student himself...

...but just do a google search on some notable people who did NOT go to college, or in some cases graduate high school, to find evidence that going to college does NOT always equal brains or success. This is why Jenson is an elitist and doesn't even really know it. He's the definition of "out of touch."

Honestly, you have to go to college in order to read and understand what's going on in the world? Please...

The Mad Crapper
03-07-2011, 06:33 AM
SO Jenson's yardstick for measuring intelligence is weather or not a guy went to college? Understandable, considering he's a college student himself...

...but just do a google search on some notable people who did NOT go to college, or in some cases graduate high school, to find evidence that going to college does NOT always equal brains or success. This is why Jenson is an elitist and doesn't even really know it. He's the definition of "out of touch."

Honestly, you have to go to college in order to read and understand what's going on in the world? Please...

If Moonbattery was an Olympic event, Jenson would bring home the gold.

Otter
03-07-2011, 06:50 AM
SO Jenson's yardstick for measuring intelligence is weather or not a guy went to college? Understandable, considering he's a college student himself...

...but just do a google search on some notable people who did NOT go to college, or in some cases graduate high school, to find evidence that going to college does NOT always equal brains or success. This is why Jenson is an elitist and doesn't even really know it. He's the definition of "out of touch."

Honestly, you have to go to college in order to read and understand what's going on in the world? Please...

Jenson will respond as soon as he gets back from his morning run...

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8p8rH5IaqRrrKMAfYKSecjbkQtvKTGbir-wSG_RgAOcDyyOGY2g&t=1

Jenson71
03-07-2011, 07:00 AM
SO Jenson's yardstick for measuring intelligence is weather or not a guy went to college? Understandable, considering he's a college student himself...

...but just do a google search on some notable people who did NOT go to college, or in some cases graduate high school, to find evidence that going to college does NOT always equal brains or success. This is why Jenson is an elitist and doesn't even really know it. He's the definition of "out of touch."

Honestly, you have to go to college in order to read and understand what's going on in the world? Please...

I never said that, and for the record, I don't believe it.

But, it would be extremely shortsighted to not examine the creditentials of your sources. A person who wants to understand what is going on with the world, for instance, in the Middle East, could look at two sources: 1) Thomas Friedman and 2) Glenn Beck. And a critical thinker would naturally ask himself: which of these two is a better source for knowledge of the Middle East?

On one hand, Thomas Friedman studied Middle Eastern history and politics at Oxford under one of the most notable historians of the Middle East, Hourani. Then, as a journalist, he went and lived in the Middle East, specifically, Beirut and Jerusalem. As a journalist at one of the most prestigious newspapers in the world, he won a Pulitzer Prize for his reports and wrote a bestselling book on the Middle East. As a journalist, he has met many important people from the region, and he continuously travels to the region and studies it.

On the other hand, Glenn Beck has never formally studied Middle Eastern history. In fact, he's never formally studied any history. He's never lived in the Middle East, he's never written books or articles about the Middle East, and he doesn't seem to have actually met any notable people from the Middle East.

So between these two, we would be stupid to not say that Glenn Beck most likely is not the best source for knowledge about the Middle East. Why? Because he simply does not have the education or experience of Middle East studies, informally or formally.

InChiefsHell
03-07-2011, 07:00 AM
Here's a few of the mindless idiots who shouldn't be talking about anything because they didn't go to college:

Michael Dell - Dell Computers
Henry Ford - some car company I think
Bill Gates - some computer software or something
Andrew Jackson - a president...OK, I'll give you this one.
John Rockefeller Sr. - made a few bucks

Just to name a few.

Jenson71
03-07-2011, 07:02 AM
Here's a few of the mindless idiots who shouldn't be talking about anything because they didn't go to college:


You're being dishonest in this discussion.

InChiefsHell
03-07-2011, 07:23 AM
You're being dishonest in this discussion.

No, I'm trying to make a point. You seem to think that just because a person has had no formal education on a certain subject, they are unable to have an authoritative knowledge on that subject. Let's try it this way...

...in college, you are taught. One of the methods used in teaching is to read a book. The book contains information that teaches the reader about the subject. Does one have to go to college to be able to read and discern things about a subject? I would submit to you that the answer is no. Rockefeller did not go to college, yet I bet he was quite the authority on finance...

...Glenn Beck has a passion for history. People (like yourself) simply take the easy way out and rather than refute any claim he makes, just point at the fact that he has no formal learning on the subject. There, that makes anything he says probably untrue and most especially irrelevant.

Whatever you do, DON'T engage the argument. Simply dismiss the messenger, it's the easier thing to do.

BucEyedPea
03-07-2011, 07:27 AM
I read that presidents give their aides nicknames. For instance Bush nicknamed Mitch Daniels "The Blade".

Barack has nicknamed his chief economic advisor, Larry Summers, “Dr. Kevorkian.”
Assisting the suicide of American capitalism.

So this Cloward-Piven strategy theory just may be correct.

Jenson71
03-07-2011, 07:37 AM
No, I'm trying to make a point. You seem to think that just because a person has had no formal education on a certain subject, they are unable to have an authoritative knowledge on that subject. Let's try it this way...

No, as I've mentioned, a great informal study, like living in the environment, or reading books on your own, or having close correspondence with people of the area, can also make someone have an authoritative knowledge on that subject.

But Glenn Beck has neither formal nor informal knowledge on the Middle East. Therefore, one should view his lectures on the Middle East as being highly amateurish and uninformed.

If I sat around here and talked about raising children, you would all go, "That's crazy! You don't have children! You haven't even read a book about it!" And I would say, "True, but I have a passion for children!" And you would say, "That's not enough." But with Glenn Beck, you go, "Wow, his passion really makes him an authority on this subject. I don't care that he's never formally studied the subject. I don't care that he's never lived there or written about the subject. He's just passionate, so his views are informed." Isn't that crazy? I think so.

The thing about Glenn Beck's lectures is that they are very much future event based: essentially, a Muslim calphiphate will overrule the Mediterrean Area. This is speculation, and one can only attack his basis for that speculation, but many have done so, including Bill Kristol, a conservative for the Weekly Standard.

Jenson71
03-07-2011, 07:44 AM
But one shouldn't discount formal education as making one an authority on a subject. Afterall, John Rockefeller may not have attended a liberal arts college (though he did take a business education course after high school, which was incredibly much for his time), he ended up establishing The University of Chicago.

And Bill Gates went to Harvard. And now he spends all of his time focusing on education.

InChiefsHell
03-07-2011, 07:49 AM
No, as I've mentioned, a great informal study, like living in the environment, or reading books on your own, or having close correspondence with people of the area, can also make someone have an authoritative knowledge on that subject.

But Glenn Beck has neither formal nor informal knowledge on the Middle East. Therefore, one should view his lectures on the Middle East as being highly amateurish and uninformed.

If I sat around here and talked about raising children, you would all go, "That's crazy! You don't have children! You haven't even read a book about it!" And I would say, "True, but I have a passion for children!" And you would say, "That's not enough." But with Glenn Beck, you go, "Wow, his passion really makes him an authority on this subject. I don't care that he's never formally studied the subject. I don't care that he's never lived there or written about the subject. He's just passionate, so his views are informed." Isn't that crazy? I think so.

The thing about Glenn Beck's lectures is that they are very much future event based: essentially, a Muslim calphiphate will overrule the Mediterrean Area. This is speculation, and one can only attack his basis for that speculation, but many have done so, including Bill Kristol, a conservative for the Weekly Standard.

How do you know what kind of informal education the man has had? Did you sit down with him and go over his reading list? I would submit that over the last 10 years, Beck has changed. He's learned a lot and I've seen his evolution from little more than a goofy conservative radio host to a passionate patriot who truly believes what he is saying. He always sites his sources, he brings people on his show who have the "credentials" that you would seek.

I don't want to derail the thread. Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree about whether or not Glenn Beck knows what he's talking about. I submit that because he has had no formal training, he's more free to learn about stuff that is glossed over or skipped by college professors who may or may not have an agenda. I did go to college for a year, and between girl watching and playing pool, I did go to classes and I did come across professors who had agendas beyond just teaching students.

I think it's dangerous to simply dismiss Beck because he does not have the credentials that you would prefer. If you had the time or inclination, I would suggest you actually listen to him for 2 weeks, try to watch the show on TV, find out about what he's actually talking about and refute it. It's not realistic to expect that you would do that, but really, it's the only way to find out if Beck is on the level or not.

BucEyedPea
03-07-2011, 08:00 AM
Bill Kristol is NOT a conservative. He's a left progressive who hailed Obama when he found out Obama was really a interventionist. Kristol also loves the idea of universal health care. Kristol is a Trotskyite aka Neo Conservative.
This is what you get when you read The Weekly Standard. ( just a different kind of progressivism)

The Mad Crapper
03-07-2011, 08:06 AM
...in college, you are taught. One of the methods used in teaching is to read a book. The book contains information that teaches the reader about the subject. Does one have to go to college to be able to read and discern things about a subject?

Nope. All you need is a lbrary card and it won't cost you a dime.

Jenson71
03-07-2011, 08:07 AM
I think it's dangerous to simply dismiss Beck because he does not have the credentials that you would prefer. If you had the time or inclination, I would suggest you actually listen to him for 2 weeks, try to watch the show on TV, find out about what he's actually talking about and refute it. It's not realistic to expect that you would do that, but really, it's the only way to find out if Beck is on the level or not.

Dangerous, huh. I think it's dangerous to blindly follow populist demagogues who have no informal or formal education about that which they speak of. But hey, maybe I'm the crazy one afterall.

I have watched his show, I'd guess about two dozen times total. I've also read a lot about him from other media. In sum, I've paid pretty close attention. And that's how I've found out that he's not "on the level."

I like how you think that while college professors have an agenda (presumably, it's something along the lines of socialism), you seem to have little skepticism of Beck having his own agenda. But I think he does: sales. Sales! $$. And publicity brings in $$. Say something provacative Glenn! "But I don't know what the issue is." That's okay, Glenn! Just appeal to average Americans and talk about how things are messed up and used to be better! They'll love it.

So do you read Thomas Friedman's columns?

Jenson71
03-07-2011, 08:10 AM
Bill Kristol is NOT a conservative. He's a left progressive who hailed Obama when he found out Obama was really a interventionist. Kristol also loves the idea of universal health care. Kristol is a Trotskyite aka Neo Conservative.
This is what you get when you read The Weekly Standard. ( just a different kind of progressivism)

By all mainstream accounts, Bill Kristol is most decidedly a conservative.

InChiefsHell
03-07-2011, 08:36 AM
Dangerous, huh. I think it's dangerous to blindly follow populist demagogues who have no informal or formal education about that which they speak of. But hey, maybe I'm the crazy one afterall.

I have watched his show, I'd guess about two dozen times total. I've also read a lot about him from other media. In sum, I've paid pretty close attention. And that's how I've found out that he's not "on the level."

I like how you think that while college professors have an agenda (presumably, it's something along the lines of socialism), you seem to have little skepticism of Beck having his own agenda. But I think he does: sales. Sales! $$. And publicity brings in $$. Say something provacative Glenn! "But I don't know what the issue is." That's okay, Glenn! Just appeal to average Americans and talk about how things are messed up and used to be better! They'll love it.

So do you read Thomas Friedman's columns?

No, I don't read Thomas Friedman's columns.

Just pass it off as insanity, or sales, or what have you. I don't think Beck is nuts or just a salesman. I do recognize that he's in the business of making money, I get that. I realize he has an agenda. But he's up front about it.

We ain't gonna agree, and that's fine. I know you're a Catholic, so at least ya got that goin' for ya...other than that, I doubt we agree on anything.

Jenson71
03-07-2011, 08:41 AM
The good news is that Beck's audience seems to be shrinking, and there are even rumors about Fox not renewing his contract. For those who hope that news channels do bring in informative, educated, and experienced journalists, this is a positive sign.

And I don't think Beck is insane. I think he's an opportunist, a populist, a demagogue, who has found a way to make a lot of money. He's irresponsible, he's unintelligent, and he's uneducated, but he's gotten his money.

The Mad Crapper
03-07-2011, 08:42 AM
http://www.moonbattery.com/Frances-Fox-Piven.jpg
Evil communist witch Frances Fox Piven.

InChiefsHell
03-07-2011, 08:56 AM
And I don't think Beck is insane. I think he's an opportunist, a populist, a demagogue, who has found a way to make a lot of money. He's irresponsible, he's unintelligent, and he's uneducated, but he's gotten his money.

You've just described the POTUS...:p

Jenson71
03-07-2011, 08:57 AM
You've just described the POTUS...:p

No, on the contrary, Obama is highly educated. But the other elements are arguable. And on a related note, Obama's experience in politics and organizations, like parties and non-profits, far outweighs Becks, who hasn't done anything, politically, except have rallies.

The Mad Crapper
03-07-2011, 09:05 AM
No, on the contrary, Obama is highly educated.

So what, he has no common sense.

BucEyedPea
03-07-2011, 09:18 AM
Since our education system is highly progressive, then Obama is highly educated in progressivism aka socialism.