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View Full Version : General Politics If we elect a Republican prez and a Republican Congress, would they repeal ObamaCare?


healthpellets
08-20-2010, 10:39 AM
simple question.

if Republicans take control of the HoR and Senate by 2012, and a republican happens to beat Obama in 2012, would Republicans repeal ObamaCare?

i don't think they have the balls to do it.

and before you start worrying about whether or not its even possible, it is. repeals happen more often than you realize. all you'd have to do with repealing ObamaCare is draw up a bill repealing the Act, then have a draw down time table along with a conclusion date. simple.

HonestChieffan
08-20-2010, 10:40 AM
One would hope so

Saul Good
08-20-2010, 10:46 AM
At the very least, it would go unfunded.

healthpellets
08-20-2010, 10:50 AM
At the very least, it would go unfunded.

hmmm...that could work.

Saul Good
08-20-2010, 10:55 AM
hmmm...that could work.

It wouldn't require winning the WH, either.

SNR
08-20-2010, 10:58 AM
It wouldn't require winning the WH, either.Can you imagine the bitchfest that would come from Obama? It would be intolerable

blaise
08-20-2010, 10:58 AM
They would change some things. That way if people like it they can claim they fixed it. If people don't like it, they can claim Obama did it. This will also allow Democrats to claim republicans ruined it if people don't like it, and that they created it if people do.
So, the wonderful world of DC would keep marching onward.

alnorth
08-20-2010, 10:59 AM
not a chance in hell.

We are basically looking at minor tweaks and adjustments now, unless it somehow falls in court, this is forever.

FishingRod
08-20-2010, 11:01 AM
They would change some things. That way if people like it they can claim they fixed it. If people don't like it, they can claim Obama did it. This will also allow Democrats to claim republicans ruined it if people don't like it, and that they created it if people do.
So, the wonderful world of DC would keep marching onward.

This x 1000

HonestChieffan
08-20-2010, 11:02 AM
not a chance in hell.

We are basically looking at minor tweaks and adjustments now, unless it somehow falls in court, this is forever.


I would certainly think you are way off base. The costs will bury it and the administration at some point will have to admit the folly and either defund it or amend it in huge ways returning free market principals as well as cost controls to maintain even the bare bones of medicaide and medicare.

alnorth
08-20-2010, 11:20 AM
I would certainly think you are way off base. The costs will bury it and the administration at some point will have to admit the folly and either defund it or amend it in huge ways returning free market principals as well as cost controls to maintain even the bare bones of medicaide and medicare.

you are very optimistic.

Medicare and Social Security will also theoretically bankrupt us someday soon. What do you think the people will want? You and I might want to scale back benefits (and they probably will have to raise the retirement age for social security a few years), but if cost containment and other reforms dont work, we'll be getting tax increases looooong before the people ever for a moment tolerates severely cutting or getting rid of them.

This health care reform will not be done away with while Obama is president. Even if he loses in 2014 (I doubt it), outright repeal vs minor fixes will not be supported by some of the northeast republicans, and as we saw in another thread, a lot of you guys dont like the idea of ending filibusters either, so we are looking at what, needing 67 or so GOP senators? By the time you logistically can think about getting the biggest majority in modern US history (yeah, right), in 2018, 2020, whatever the program will be in place, and whether we can afford it or not, way too many people will be getting too much "free" dollar-one zero-deductible health care coverage to allow a repeal.

Poor children with cancer will be getting coverage that you'll want to take away (never mind that they would be getting care anyway and we are only talking about insuring assets, that doesnt fit a sound-bite). How is a GOP senate candidate in a slightly purple state going to win re-election against an onslaught of ads saying he wants to kill poor people and sick kids?

FishingRod
08-20-2010, 11:22 AM
I would certainly think you are way off base. The costs will bury it and the administration at some point will have to admit the folly and either defund it or amend it in huge ways returning free market principals as well as cost controls to maintain even the bare bones of medicaide and medicare.

Not trying to be argumentative because I agree with you on what is wrong with the plan but, can you think of many/any other government monstrosities that have been relinquished by the Government and allowed to be sorted out by supply and demand?

HonestChieffan
08-20-2010, 11:24 AM
you are very optimistic.

Medicare and Social Security will also theoretically bankrupt us someday soon. What do you think the people will want? You and I might want to scale back benefits (and they probably will have to raise the retirement age for social security a few years), but if cost containment and other reforms dont work, we'll be getting tax increases looooong before the people ever for a moment tolerates severely cutting or getting rid of them.

This health care reform will not be done away with while Obama is president. Even if he loses in 2014 (I doubt it), outright repeal vs minor fixes will not be supported by some of the northeast republicans, and as we saw in another thread, a lot of you guys dont like the idea of ending filibusters either, so we are looking at what, needing 67 or so GOP senators? By the time you logistically can think about getting the biggest majority in modern US history (yeah, right), in 2018, 2020, whatever the program will be in place, and whether we can afford it or not, way too many people will be getting too much "free" dollar-one zero-deductible health care coverage to allow a repeal.


Well yes I tend to be optimistic but also maintain some realism.

The two programs have to be fixed..medicaid and medicare. And SS will need to be modified. Its just not sustainable as we know them without modification. But the weight of Obamacare will break us and those programs with it. Thats why in light of real facts and honest evaluation, the ObamaCare debacle will have to be dumped and start back with the incremental focused fixes to the programs we have in manner we can afford.

HonestChieffan
08-20-2010, 11:30 AM
Not trying to be argumentative because I agree with you on what is wrong with the plan but, can you think of many/any other government monstrosities that have been relinquished by the Government and allowed to be sorted out by supply and demand?

This one will be the test and I believe it will be reworked simply due to its impossible to afford costs and the unintended consequences on quality of life and quality of health care that it will bring. Just as we see Canada coming to realize their program is broken and the EU seeing many of theirs falling apart, we will see some sense return. This administration will before its over prove to a great degree what people have always believed that the socialistic type programs are not in step with America or Americans and we will see the long term weakening of those on the fringe left as a result.

The fixes will be hard. And will take a long time. These people have made a huge mess that will take hard work and dedication to fix. We know the democrats wont deal with it because their base, getting smaller by the day, will oppose any and all efforts to put responsibility back on the individual and oppose all efforts to reduce the scope, reach, and size of government. But the change will happen, it has to.

alnorth
08-20-2010, 11:31 AM
Well yes I tend to be optimistic but also maintain some realism.

The two programs have to be fixed..medicaid and medicare. And SS will need to be modified. Its just not sustainable as we know them without modification. But the weight of Obamacare will break us and those programs with it. Thats why in light of real facts and honest evaluation, the ObamaCare debacle will have to be dumped and start back with the incremental focused fixes to the programs we have in manner we can afford.

I might be too cynical about the intelligence of the mushy fickle moderates in the middle, but I believe as soon as they start getting goodies and health care coverage they couldn't afford before, even though the bill hasnt come due yet and it may be a monster, I just do not think they will be willing to relinquish the freebies. The tea party will be overwhelmed by "how DARE you take away my health care coverage! You are just fat rich bastards, its time to pay your fair share! blah blah blah, insert short-sighted emotional argument here, show a sick kid, etc"

BucEyedPea
08-20-2010, 11:34 AM
At the very least, it would go unfunded.

Well, I thought they were leaving a lot of that to the states which is one of the reasons why they're suing the Feds.

BucEyedPea
08-20-2010, 11:35 AM
They would change some things. That way if people like it they can claim they fixed it. If people don't like it, they can claim Obama did it. This will also allow Democrats to claim republicans ruined it if people don't like it, and that they created it if people do.
So, the wonderful world of DC would keep marching onward.

ROFL :thumb: O.M.G! You speak sooth!

Oucho Cinco
08-20-2010, 11:37 AM
If national health care is really important, and I do not believe it's in the best interest of the country, whom ever is in office after the 2010 elections should tear the thing apart and make it function.

The #1 most important piece of the Health Care Reform should be to provide insurance for legal citizens that cannot get it through employers. If someone doesn't have health care insurance and are capable of getting their own they should required to do so. Unemployed people should not have to pay out the ass for Cobra, that is one that should be covered by the bill until they get work or revert to the government supplied insurance due to extended unemployment.

Also, the phantom 28th Amendment should be made law. That will stop a ton of the horseshit that goes on in Washington.

healthpellets
08-20-2010, 11:46 AM
If national health care is really important, and I do not believe it's in the best interest of the country, whom ever is in office after the 2010 elections should tear the thing apart and make it function.

The #1 most important piece of the Health Care Reform should be to provide insurance for legal citizens that cannot get it through employers. If someone doesn't have health care insurance and are capable of getting their own they should required to do so. Unemployed people should not have to pay out the ass for Cobra, that is one that should be covered by the bill until they get work or revert to the government supplied insurance due to extended unemployment.

Also, the phantom 28th Amendment should be made law. That will stop a ton of the horseshit that goes on in Washington.

so do you support obamacare or not?

alnorth
08-20-2010, 11:59 AM
so do you support obamacare or not?

looks like he supports a lot of modification.

I do too honestly, but probably a different set of modifications. I would vote against a full repeal, opting instead to cutting down the benefits quite a bit to make it more affordable. I am in favor of requiring those without coverage who can afford it to buy coverage, and providing coverage to those who cant, simply because we are covering them already to some extent with our taxes and premiums. We wont let you die in a ditch, if you are broke, we still give you hideously expensive care and you then skip out the hospital door over to your bankruptcy lawyer. Someone wants to save money and not buy coverage, thus sticking me with their bill if they aren't lucky? No thanks, I'd rather not, you can pay for your own coverage.

What I object to is Obamacare is focused on giving everyone really good high-quality coverage. Why? Catastrophic coverage with, say a $5,000 deductible is incredibly cheap because the vast majority of claims are cheap, and if you have a big deductible then you have a big disincentive to go to the doctor for every cold and hangnail. You wont likely be able to go bankrupt on a deductible either.

It is the big expensive hundred thousand and million-dollar claims that the taxpayer shouldn't be stuck with, so thats what we should require insurance on, anything more gets to be too expensive.

patteeu
08-20-2010, 12:01 PM
Republicans won't be able to repeal it unless they have enough seats to prevent a filibuster or unless they get cooperation from democrats. Since they won't have enough seats to prevent a filibuster, I voted no. The only hope is that the measure becomes so unpopular that democrats won't have the will to mount a filibuster. The best chance of that is if the Republicans try to take Obamacare apart piecemeal while leaving some of the more popular components in place. This will be worse than full repeal, but it's as optimistic as I can get.

healthpellets
08-20-2010, 12:04 PM
Republicans won't be able to repeal it unless they have enough seats to prevent a filibuster or unless they get cooperation from democrats. Since they won't have enough seats to prevent a filibuster, I voted no. The only hope is that the measure becomes so unpopular that democrats won't have the will to mount a filibuster. The best chance of that is if the Republicans try to take Obamacare apart piecemeal while leaving some of the more popular components in place. This will be worse than full repeal, but it's as optimistic as I can get.

they can do away with the filibuster if they take control of the chamber.

patteeu
08-20-2010, 12:06 PM
I think alnorth's position is on target. The major flaw I see in it is that even if the coverage was initially limited to catastrophic coverage, it's bound to creep toward full coverage (at least for the poor) and I can't think of any good way to prevent that. Otherwise, I think his approach is the right one as long as we're operating under the assumption that the country isn't willing to let people who can't afford care die in the gutter.

patteeu
08-20-2010, 12:08 PM
they can do away with the filibuster if they take control of the chamber.

True. I don't think that will happen because of the politics of the situation. If there was political support for such a drastic measure, there would be enough political pressure to prevent dems from filibustering in the first place so doing away with the filibuster wouldn't be necessary.

If they did do it, the electoral mood would probably swing back in the direction of the dems in a dramatic fashion (just like it's swung toward the Republicans this time around) and we'd end up with even worse legislation a few years from now when the dems took over control again.

healthpellets
08-20-2010, 12:09 PM
True. I don't think that will happen because of the politics of the situation. If there was political support for such a drastic measure, there would be enough political pressure to prevent dems from filibustering in the first place so doing away with the filibuster wouldn't be necessary.

i don't care which party does it, i just want to see the shock and awe on display from the other.

alnorth
08-20-2010, 12:11 PM
I think alnorth's position is on target. The major flaw I see in it is that even if the coverage was initially limited to catastrophic coverage, it's bound to creep toward full coverage (at least for the poor) and I can't think of any good way to prevent that. Otherwise, I think his approach is the right one as long as we're operating under the assumption that the country isn't willing to let people who can't afford care die in the gutter.

pretty much. I'm admittedly living in a fantasyland here, in the real world we'd have horror stories about people losing their home because of the expensive deductibles, they would creep lower, and eventually we have obamacare anyway with free zero-deductible policies that cover the first dollar and no coverage caps.

So, in summary, I think we are doomed to what we have on the coverage side, and should probably focus on the cost side (malpractice reforms? restrictions on expensive treatment options for people with government policies?) so that the coverage doesn't choke us to death.

Oucho Cinco
08-20-2010, 12:17 PM
so do you support obamacare or not?

In it's current form? No way. It was passed and virtually nobody knew what was in it, none of the democrats even saw a need to read it before they passed it.

It's just another rathole for democrats to pour money.

healthpellets
08-20-2010, 12:18 PM
fine. fcuk it. let's just bring in single payer medicaid for all by the republican party. say you're saving insurance companies from ruin by putting all healthcare expenditures in the lap of the federal government.

maybe then we can get the poor folks to see we really care.

alnorth
08-20-2010, 12:24 PM
fine. fcuk it. let's just bring in single payer medicaid for all by the republican party. say you're saving insurance companies from ruin by putting all healthcare expenditures in the lap of the federal government.

maybe then we can get the poor folks to see we really care.

There's no need to go all full-blown Canada here, a very light version of Germany might be the lesser of all evils. (again, given we wont let uninsured people die) For-profit health insurance companies do exist outside the USA.

Chocolate Hog
08-20-2010, 12:26 PM
Considering some of the healthcare bill were Republican ideas in the 90's nope.

Oucho Cinco
08-20-2010, 12:30 PM
fine. fcuk it. let's just bring in single payer medicaid for all by the republican party. say you're saving insurance companies from ruin by putting all healthcare expenditures in the lap of the federal government.

maybe then we can get the poor folks to see we really care.

Did you even read what I wrote?

First off, the nationalized insurance is supposed to take care of the poor, those that are uninsured and can't afford to buy it on their own.

Have you read the 2K+ page bill? I doubt you did, but before you argue about it's merits you need to know what's in it and I honestly don't think you do.

I have insurance, good insurance. I don't need nationalized health care to lower the quality of care I get. We also don't need the government involved with health care, they fuck up everything they touch. I can't think of one single government agency that is efficient. Look at the IRS, USPS, military, HHS, and virtually every other agency that is funded by the government. Nothing but bureaucratic red tape at every turn.

Look at how hosed up Medicare is, and you want them in charge of your health care? NFW

healthpellets
08-20-2010, 12:33 PM
Did you even read what I wrote?

First off, the nationalized insurance is supposed to take care of the poor, those that are uninsured and can't afford to buy it on their own.

Have you read the 2K+ page bill? I doubt you did, but before you argue about it's merits you need to know what's in it and I honestly don't think you do.

I have insurance, good insurance. I don't need nationalized health care to lower the quality of care I get. We also don't need the government involved with health care, they **** up everything they touch. I can't think of one single government agency that is efficient. Look at the IRS, USPS, military, HHS, and virtually every other agency that is funded by the government. Nothing but bureaucratic red tape at every turn.

Look at how hosed up Medicare is, and you want them in charge of your health care? NFW

why do you assume i was responding to you? i didn't quote you.

Oucho Cinco
08-20-2010, 12:56 PM
why do you assume i was responding to you? i didn't quote you.

Who else to you spew your venom on? You always have a smartass answer to anything I post. Why would this one be any different?

healthpellets
08-20-2010, 01:46 PM
Who else to you spew your venom on? You always have a smartass answer to anything I post. Why would this one be any different?

venom? ROFL

BucEyedPea
08-20-2010, 02:20 PM
Considering some of the healthcare bill were Republican ideas in the 90's nope.

It actually looks like Nixon's healthcare bill. ROFL

patteeu
08-20-2010, 02:30 PM
pretty much. I'm admittedly living in a fantasyland here, in the real world we'd have horror stories about people losing their home because of the expensive deductibles, they would creep lower, and eventually we have obamacare anyway with free zero-deductible policies that cover the first dollar and no coverage caps.

So, in summary, I think we are doomed to what we have on the coverage side, and should probably focus on the cost side (malpractice reforms? restrictions on expensive treatment options for people with government policies?) so that the coverage doesn't choke us to death.

I fear doom too, but I'm not willing to throw in the towel on the coverage side. We just need to work on the cost side while holding the line or pushing back on the coverage side until the political pressure is relieved. We also need to highlight the taint of democrat initiatives so that people will realize that democrat ideas (and populism, in general) are generally poisonous to our country.

Oucho Cinco
08-20-2010, 03:02 PM
venom? ROFL

shit? poison? sewer breath?

You are not the nicest person on the board. Most come to expect you to be a total ass, I'm no different. I expect you to be an ass and you never disappoint me.

healthpellets
08-20-2010, 03:36 PM
shit? poison? sewer breath?

You are not the nicest person on the board. Most come to expect you to be a total ass, I'm no different. I expect you to be an ass and you never disappoint me.

i know. sometimes honesty doesn't come across as very nice.

sorry i've failed to disappoint you.

ForeverChiefs58
08-20-2010, 06:24 PM
Nancy Pelosi, has called for an investigation of those who are posting on Chiefsplanet.

alnorth
08-20-2010, 06:27 PM
Nancy Pelosi, has called for an investigation of those who are posting on Chiefsplanet.

eh, as long as its not Righthaven trying to investigate us, we're fine.

Psyko Tek
08-20-2010, 06:46 PM
At the very least, it would go unfunded.

most stuff does

from both parties

Oucho Cinco
08-20-2010, 07:01 PM
i know. sometimes honesty doesn't come across as very nice.

sorry i've failed to disappoint you.

Honesty? You wouldn't know honesty if it hit you square in the puss!

You have never disappointed me, you I expect shit from you and that's all you have.

healthpellets
08-20-2010, 07:05 PM
Honesty? You wouldn't know honesty if it hit you square in the puss!

You have never disappointed me, you I expect shit from you and that's all you have.

ok, you win. i'm going to do you a favor and put you on ignore (as soon as i figure out how). then i won't see your rambling, illogical, two-sided postings and be forced to respond. and then you can just keep posting without anyone calling you out.

but hey, thanks for the personal attacks. enjoy yourself.

Chief Faithful
08-20-2010, 07:23 PM
Repeal, no. But, I believe they will change much of it.

greg63
08-21-2010, 05:32 AM
There's a difference between republicans and democrats these days???

Oucho Cinco
08-21-2010, 07:38 AM
ok, you win. i'm going to do you a favor and put you on ignore (as soon as i figure out how). then i won't see your rambling, illogical, two-sided postings and be forced to respond. and then you can just keep posting without anyone calling you out.

but hey, thanks for the personal attacks. enjoy yourself.

Ironic, you start a flame war with virtually everything I post and then go crying to the ignore button when I respond in kind.

Very mature. Not having your ignorance showing in public will do the whole world a favor. Don't go away mad, like they say, just go away.

healthpellets
08-21-2010, 07:49 AM
There's a difference between republicans and democrats these days???

a dime's worth...

ChiefaRoo
08-22-2010, 12:24 AM
They would change some things. That way if people like it they can claim they fixed it. If people don't like it, they can claim Obama did it. This will also allow Democrats to claim republicans ruined it if people don't like it, and that they created it if people do.
So, the wonderful world of DC would keep marching onward.

If our country doesn't get its act together and move beyond this type of political thinking in DC we are going to become a lesser nation with limited future opportunities for our kids. It's time for the electorate to grow up and realize we can fix our country and keep it great but it will require our leaders and our people to prioritize our goals and actually have the courage and conviction to stick by them. If we don't we are lost.

DenverChief
08-22-2010, 04:46 AM
:facepalm:

Oucho Cinco
08-22-2010, 05:36 AM
:facepalm:

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

vailpass
08-22-2010, 03:38 PM
:facepalm:

My exact response to obama's health care debacle.
WTF was that empty suit thinking?
How can we un-fugg the ruin this administration is creating?

Oucho Cinco
08-22-2010, 07:36 PM
My exact response to obama's health care debacle.
WTF was that empty suit thinking?
How can we un-fugg the ruin this administration is creating?

A good start would be if we could find an impeachable offense he has committed. Early out would be good.

ChiefaRoo
08-22-2010, 07:50 PM
A good start would be if we could find an impeachable offense he has committed. Early out would be good.

I think that would be a mistake. The social fabric of this country doesn't need to be shaken like that. The Republic can endure Barack Obama as long as the balance of power shifts this Nov. He can lame duck it until 2012. The big question is who will the R's run as President who can do a good job. I'm conservative and I'm not excited by anyone that I know of at the National Level.

Oucho Cinco
08-22-2010, 08:44 PM
I think that would be a mistake. The social fabric of this country doesn't need to be shaken like that. The Republic can endure Barack Obama as long as the balance of power shifts this Nov. He can lame duck it until 2012. The big question is who will the R's run as President who can do a good job. I'm conservative and I'm not excited by anyone that I know of at the National Level.

There isn't anyone out there that can do the job to satisfy everyone. What is needed is a John Doe type of guy that can walk in and basically do the job without any ties to a mainstream concern.