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View Full Version : Nat'l Security TSA call cops because woman had checks that there were "nearly" sequentially numbered


healthpellets
08-21-2010, 06:13 PM
Making our skies safer, one 43 year old white woman at a time.

Highlights:


TSA "Behavorial specialist" IDs woman for extended search
TSA starts searching through woman's wallet, scanning her receipts and discovers checks
TSA calls police after discovering the checks were nearly numerically sequential
Police calls husband and say that they suspect wife cleaning out bank account and leaving him


http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/daniel_rubin/20100818_Daniel_Rubin__An_infuriating_search_at_Philadelphia_International_Airport.html?viewAll=y

What happened next, she says, was more than embarrassing. It was infuriating.

That same screener started emptying her wallet. "He was taking out the receipts and looking at them," she said.

"I understand that TSA is tasked with strengthening national security but [it] surely does not need to know what I purchased at Kohl's or Wal-Mart," she wrote in her complaint, which she sent me last week.

She says she asked what he was looking for and he replied, "Razor blades." She wondered, "Wouldn't that have shown up on the metal detector?"

In a side pocket she had tucked a deposit slip and seven checks made out to her and her husband, worth about $8,000.


She protested when the officer started to walk away with the checks. "That's my money," she remembers saying. The officer's reply? "It's not your money."


What happened sounds to me like a violation of a TSA policy that went into effect Sept. 1, after the American Civil Liberties Union sued the agency on behalf of the former campaign treasurer of presidential candidate Ron Paul.

In that case, Steven Bierfeldt was detained after screeners at Lambert-St. Louis International Airport discovered he was carrying about $4,700 in cash. He challenged their request that he explain where his money came from.

The new TSA directive reads: "Screening may not be conducted to detect evidence of crimes unrelated to transportation security." If evidence of a crime is discovered, then TSA agents are instructed to contact the appropriate law enforcement agency.


"None of this makes any sense except as a fishing expedition, which under the U.S. Constitution is not allowed. They can't rummage through her personal life. I'm not surprised this woman is outraged. She should be."

alnorth
08-21-2010, 06:37 PM
This is crap. I'm fine with a behavioral specialist marking you for a thorough search, enhanced security (within reason) and all that, but the TSA is not the police. Their only purpose should be identifying a threat to the airplane, and looking for items that you are not permitted to carry or transport, thats it. If they suspect that someone could be a thief, they should not care. As far as I am concerned, even if they just happen to stumble across evidence of a crime unrelated to what they are looking for, they should ignore it, they are not the police, they are the TSA.

If a bored screener finds something suspicious and decides to play amateur detective, they are in the wrong job. They should quit and go join the police academy.

Garcia Bronco
08-21-2010, 06:40 PM
She was doing exactly what they said she was doing; Cleaning out her husband and bolting. Good catch.

alnorth
08-21-2010, 06:47 PM
She was doing exactly what they said she was doing; Cleaning out her husband and bolting. Good catch.

Not according to the story, she wasn't.

The TSA screener was searching for a threat to the airplane (razor blades, I guess), and stumbled across receipts and checks that made him (incorrectly) think she emptied out a joint account in preparation of a divorce.

Not only was that not right, it also is arguably not illegal, and most importantly, it was none of the TSA screener's damned business. The cop (who also sounded like an over-suspicious idiot) shouldn't have been called in to harass and delay her.

As soon as the TSA screener determined she had no weapons or contraband, that should have been the end of it. The TSA is not the police, they have no business behaving as if they were police. Even if they think they see evidence of an unrelated crime during the search, it should be ignored.

Ebolapox
08-21-2010, 06:53 PM
fucking TSA. do your job and leave her the fuck alone. no bomb? no knife? go the fuck away, double digit IQ

healthpellets
08-21-2010, 07:07 PM
here's the thing. it's MY money. if i want to carry $5000 on to an airplane because i'm going to make some purchases at a gun show in another state, it's not TSA's business where my money came from, or what i'm doing with it.

unless i have a wad of cash, along with some drug paraphernalia, a lighter, and some crack, is there any evidence of a crime, or the money originating from criminal activity.

can't wait for the "Black man detained at airport because he had lots of money and looked like a pimp" story.

i like to make TSA do a little work, so i don't walk through the body scanning machines as KCI, and they sure do get an annoyed look when you ask to opt out. maybe i'll distract them long enough to let some poor women not get harassed.

ForeverChiefs58
08-21-2010, 07:55 PM
plus there has been celebs from Michael Vick to Whitney Houston get busted with drugs or guns and just get pissed and get to leave. This lady gets held for receipts?

Bwana
08-22-2010, 07:56 AM
There are some real knuckle draggers that work for the TSA. I think a lot of them are cop want to be types, who couldn't make the cut to become a "real cop." Seriously, from what I have seen, I'm surprised that the majority of them stand upright and walk on all fours. The majority of them would be naturals for a Geico commercial and there would be no need for makeup.

Some of their rules from week to week are nuts. I flew to Michigan about a month ago and decided to take a mini humidor, a cigar cutter and a torch lighter. I had all the stuff packed in my check in bag, in the humidor and claimed it. Evidently, you can't have a torch lighter at all, so they took it. He did enlighten me that it is OK to carry on a regular lighter onboard though. I said "you have got to be shitting me?" :eek:

Sure enough, I was able to buy a lighter at the airport and toss it in my carry on bag and take it with me "ON THE JET." I'm thinking, what a stupid freaking rule this is. They take my nice lighter out of my checked bag, yet anyone can carry a regular lighter on a jet?

Think of the possibilities of that, if you are a terrorist. Has anyone ever seen how fast seat foam goes up in flames? Who is the government genius that came up with that policy? :facepalm:

http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/commercials/2006/11/geico-caveman-airport.jpg

Oucho Cinco
08-22-2010, 08:26 AM
Not according to the story, she wasn't.

The TSA screener was searching for a threat to the airplane (razor blades, I guess), and stumbled across receipts and checks that made him (incorrectly) think she emptied out a joint account in preparation of a divorce.

Not only was that not right, it also is arguably not illegal, and most importantly, it was none of the TSA screener's damned business. The cop (who also sounded like an over-suspicious idiot) shouldn't have been called in to harass and delay her.

As soon as the TSA screener determined she had no weapons or contraband, that should have been the end of it. The TSA is not the police, they have no business behaving as if they were police. Even if they think they see evidence of an unrelated crime during the search, it should be ignored.

Even if she did clean out an account in preparation of a divorce there is no law against that if it's a joint account.

TSA intelligence requirements must be pretty low, and their psychological screening must be suspect.

bobbymitch
08-22-2010, 09:42 AM
The TSA folks have no real common sense. My wife had her bare feet scanned with a metal detector.

It would seem that many were picked on in school, had no real prospects, and never were going to be in some management capacity. Now they have absolute power and enjoy using it.

Deberg_1990
08-22-2010, 09:48 AM
There are some real knuckle draggers that work for the TSA.

Its a government created position with gauranteed pay and benefits....did you expect differently?

Gracie Dean
08-22-2010, 09:51 AM
Once our flight in ICT got cancelled, they bussed us to Dallas (broke down 10 times on 35) and when we got there we had to fly standbye to Miami. My husband, me and our daughter...the TSA looked at our ID's and pass ports ...remember 2 girls and one guy. The TSA called out "who's Mark" DUH

Bwana
08-22-2010, 09:58 AM
Its a government created position with gauranteed pay and benefits....did you expect differently?

What I expect, is some level of competency. That being said, I'm disappointed on a regular basis.

kcfanXIII
08-22-2010, 10:29 AM
What I expect, is some level of competency. That being said, I'm disappointed on a regular basis.

this pretty much sums up my feelings towards ALL government agencies, and really the government itself.

Bwana
08-22-2010, 10:32 AM
this pretty much sums up my feelings towards ALL government agencies, and really the government itself.

You've got that right. :doh!:

Saul Good
08-22-2010, 11:38 AM
this pretty much sums up my feelings towards ALL government agencies, and really the government itself.

Don't get sick.

Guru
08-22-2010, 11:48 AM
last I looked, all my checks are sequentially numbered as well.

Oucho Cinco
08-22-2010, 02:48 PM
this pretty much sums up my feelings towards ALL government agencies, and really the government itself.

Just wait until obamacare kicks in!

Garcia Bronco
08-23-2010, 08:02 AM
Not according to the story, she wasn't.

The TSA screener was searching for a threat to the airplane (razor blades, I guess), and stumbled across receipts and checks that made him (incorrectly) think she emptied out a joint account in preparation of a divorce.

Not only was that not right, it also is arguably not illegal, and most importantly, it was none of the TSA screener's damned business. The cop (who also sounded like an over-suspicious idiot) shouldn't have been called in to harass and delay her.

As soon as the TSA screener determined she had no weapons or contraband, that should have been the end of it. The TSA is not the police, they have no business behaving as if they were police. Even if they think they see evidence of an unrelated crime during the search, it should be ignored.

I thought what was posted in the OP was the whole article. I saw what the husband said later.

alnorth
08-23-2010, 10:35 AM
I thought what was posted in the OP was the whole article. I saw what the husband said later.

even if she was cleaning out a joint account in preparation of a divorce, that is not illegal and none of the TSA's business.

Garcia Bronco
08-23-2010, 10:54 AM
even if she was cleaning out a joint account in preparation of a divorce, that is not illegal and none of the TSA's business.

Maybe and maybe not. If it were a wife cleaning out a husband then I have no problem with their actions.

healthpellets
08-23-2010, 10:59 AM
Maybe and maybe not. If it were a wife cleaning out a husband then I have no problem with their actions.

so even though she wouldn't be committing a crime, since taking YOUR money out of YOUR bank account isn't illegal, you would still support the actions of the TSA if in fact she was cleaning out the bank account?

Brock
08-23-2010, 11:43 AM
Maybe and maybe not. If it were a wife cleaning out a husband then I have no problem with their actions.

And there's a jurisdiction for that and it isn't the airport.

Garcia Bronco
08-23-2010, 12:50 PM
so even though she wouldn't be committing a crime, since taking YOUR money out of YOUR bank account isn't illegal, you would still support the actions of the TSA if in fact she was cleaning out the bank account?

Robbing him of his money could be illegal in some places. More to the point...I don't give a shit if it's illegal or not. It's wrong.

healthpellets
08-23-2010, 12:52 PM
Robbing him of his money could be illegal in some places. More to the point...I don't give a shit if it's illegal or not. It's wrong.

so the TSA are now the morality police?

and why do you suppose it's HIS money? is she not capable of making money?

Garcia Bronco
08-23-2010, 01:11 PM
so the TSA are now the morality police?



If she was cleaning out their joint account, but that's not what happened. If it were the case then it's a good catch.

Oucho Cinco
08-23-2010, 02:28 PM
If she was cleaning out their joint account, but that's not what happened. If it were the case then it's a good catch.

If it was a joint account she has all rights to do anything she wants and it's not against the law. As it goes in this world shit happens. I still think it's not in their perview to judge why anything was done with a personal account and or a joint account. Their job is to look for items dangerous to the plane and the people on it. A woman with money is just dangerous while shopping.

alnorth
08-23-2010, 04:10 PM
If she was cleaning out their joint account, but that's not what happened.

You are factually incorrect. She wasn't cleaning out any account at all. She had checks made out to both her and her husband, and she was planning to deposit them into an account. (no mention of if it was into her account or a joint account, but regardless, this was money that was given to the both of them that she was intending to deposit into a bank, not money taken out of an account they had)

Regardless of that, lets pretend she was taking money out of her husband's account. Hell, lets take it a step further and pretend there was evidence that she forged her husband's name to take money out of her husband's sole and seperate account in an attempt to outright steal from him.

It is none of the TSA's damned business. They should be looking for threats and contraband, anything else they should not care about. The TSA screeners are too stupid to be trusted with the responsibility they already have much less more power, if they don't like their role, they can quit and join the police academy.

Saul Good
08-23-2010, 04:19 PM
If she was cleaning out their joint account, but that's not what happened. If it were the case then it's a good catch.

What if they caught a married guy going out of town without his wife, and he had a bunch of rubbers? Should they bust him for suspected infidelity?

KC Dan
08-23-2010, 04:21 PM
It is none of the TSA's damned business. They should be looking for threats and contraband, anything else they should not care about. The TSA screeners are too stupid to be trusted with the responsibility they already have much less more power, if they don't like their role, they can quit and join the police academy.
Well said, sir!

alnorth
08-23-2010, 04:28 PM
Well said, sir!

Before people start throwing out wild scenarios, I'm willing to admit there can be rare extreme exceptions. Pictures of dead kids taken as a momento by a crazed serial killer wanted on the loose, terrorist plans to destroy some building unrelated to the plane, fine.

If it is an incredibly horrible crime that is blatantly obvious to the average untrained man on the street and it is just right there in his bag and doesn't require a lot of detective work (who is that stupid?), ok but the default policy should be "look for threats to the plane and contraband, ignore everything else".

Oucho Cinco
08-23-2010, 05:01 PM
Before people start throwing out wild scenarios, I'm willing to admit there can be rare extreme exceptions. Pictures of dead kids taken as a momento by a crazed serial killer wanted on the loose, terrorist plans to destroy some building unrelated to the plane, fine.

If it is an incredibly horrible crime that is blatantly obvious to the average untrained man on the street and it is just right there in his bag and doesn't require a lot of detective work (who is that stupid?), ok but the default policy should be "look for threats to the plane and contraband, ignore everything else".

So you want to empty your wallet every time you get on a plane?

alnorth
08-23-2010, 06:42 PM
So you want to empty your wallet every time you get on a plane?

I dont think you understood what I was saying.

I look nervous, you think I might have a bomb on me, you want to pull me out for a pat-down? fine. During the pat-down I act like a spaz so you pull out the luggage I had checked, open the trunk, and right there plain as day for the world to see are full color photos of a dead woman who was on the evening news last night.

You weren't shaking down every single passenger on the one-and-a-million shot that you might find a murderer, you legitimately thought I might be trying to bomb the plane, and proof of a murder just fell right into your lap because I'm the dumbest criminal in history.

Now, I'm arguing that generally speaking, the TSA shouldn't care about other crimes, they are looking for threats, contraband, and nothing else. If you read that sentence, you might point out the above scenario. I'm just saying "ok, fine in THAT crazy-ass situation, the TSA should call the cops, but it has to be real extreme."

Garcia Bronco
08-24-2010, 03:43 PM
You are factually incorrect. She wasn't cleaning out any account at all. She had checks made out to both her and her husband, and she was planning to deposit them into an account. (no mention of if it was into her account or a joint account, but regardless, this was money that was given to the both of them that she was intending to deposit into a bank, not money taken out of an account they had)

Regardless of that, lets pretend she was taking money out of her husband's account. Hell, lets take it a step further and pretend there was evidence that she forged her husband's name to take money out of her husband's sole and seperate account in an attempt to outright steal from him.

It is none of the TSA's damned business. They should be looking for threats and contraband, anything else they should not care about. The TSA screeners are too stupid to be trusted with the responsibility they already have much less more power, if they don't like their role, they can quit and join the police academy.

The husband clearly states that he knew what was going on, but had she been cleaning out the money and leaving him with debt or no money; it's not right. Had she been caught doing that I would have no problem with the TSA's actions because they caught a dishonest person stealing from her husband. It's NOT hers it's Theirs. Of course, this is why I would never have a joint account with anyone ever...no more than a thousand.

alnorth
08-24-2010, 04:13 PM
The husband clearly states that he knew what was going on, but had she been cleaning out the money and leaving him with debt or no money; it's not right. Had she been caught doing that I would have no problem with the TSA's actions because they caught a dishonest person stealing from her husband. It's NOT hers it's Theirs. Of course, this is why I would never have a joint account with anyone ever...no more than a thousand.

bullcrap. If a check is made out to two people, either of them can cash it. There should be no reason to even be suspicious at all. Getting the cops involved and then calling her husband should not have even been thought of as a good thing to do. No one should ever make any presumption that you are a thief when you cash a check made out to you. ESPECIALLY if it is none of your damned business to wonder if I'm a thief or not.

healthpellets
08-24-2010, 04:22 PM
bullcrap. If a check is made out to two people, either of them can cash it. There should be no reason to even be suspicious at all. Getting the cops involved and then calling her husband should not have even been thought of as a good thing to do. No one should ever make any presumption that you are a thief when you cash a check made out to you. ESPECIALLY if it is none of your damned business to wonder if I'm a thief or not.

oh man. i was at Wendy's this morning and had to use my wife's debit card to pay. clerk asked me for some ID to match the names i guess. while i was fumbling through my wallet, the big bloody knife i used to kill my neighbor earlier this morning happened to fall out. Wendy's employee totally ignored it. then five checks from my neighbor made out to me in my handwriting happened to fall out, they were ignored as well.

i finally found my ID, and told the Wendy's employee that he should apply at the TSA. he's just the kind of man they need working for them.

alnorth
08-24-2010, 04:48 PM
told the Wendy's employee that he should apply at the TSA. he's just the kind of man they need working for them.

great analogy. People get caught up with the TSA, ascribing this important mystical quality to them. Yeah they are important, but they aren't the cops.

They are a freaking airport guard. The TSA is one step up from mall cop. They have a specific job to do, they are not tasked with enforcing the law, and they should not try.

Brock
08-24-2010, 05:43 PM
They're people without the brains to be a traffic cop or the balls to be a prison guard. Absolutely the worst people on earth to deal with. I go on about half as many flying vacations as I used to because of those assholes.

Saul Good
08-24-2010, 07:45 PM
The husband clearly states that he knew what was going on, but had she been cleaning out the money and leaving him with debt or no money; it's not right. Had she been caught doing that I would have no problem with the TSA's actions because they caught a dishonest person stealing from her husband. It's NOT hers it's Theirs. Of course, this is why I would never have a joint account with anyone ever...no more than a thousand.

How is that any different than if they caught a married guy flying without his wife who had a bunch of condoms in his bag? Neither is illegal. Should they detain him and call his wife to let her know that he may be cheating on her?

Garcia Bronco
08-25-2010, 08:37 AM
bullcrap. If a check is made out to two people, either of them can cash it. There should be no reason to even be suspicious at all. Getting the cops involved and then calling her husband should not have even been thought of as a good thing to do. No one should ever make any presumption that you are a thief when you cash a check made out to you. ESPECIALLY if it is none of your damned business to wonder if I'm a thief or not.

You'd be wrong about that. There are number of reasons to question such activity.

healthpellets
08-25-2010, 09:28 AM
You'd be wrong about that. There are number of reasons to question such activity.

true or false: the TSA is the police arm of the federal government?