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orange
08-25-2010, 04:03 PM
Why the Tea Party is toxic for the GOP

By Michael Gerson
Wednesday, August 25, 2010

So the "summer of recovery" swelters on, with Democrats sun-blistered, pestered by bottle flies, sand in their swimsuits, water in their ears. Jobless claims increase, Republicans lead the generic congressional ballot, and George W. Bush is six points more popular than President Obama in "front-line" Democratic districts that are most vulnerable to a Republican takeover. Still, Democrats hug the hope that Obama is really the liberal Ronald Reagan -- but without wit, humor, an explainable ideology or an effective economic plan. Other than that, the resemblance is uncanny.

Yet the Republican Party suffers its own difficulty -- an untested ideology at the core of its appeal.

In the normal course of events, political movements begin as intellectual arguments, often conducted for years in serious books and journals. To study the Tea Party movement, future scholars will sift through the collected tweets of Sarah Palin. Without a history of clarifying, refining debates, Republicans need to ask three questions of candidates rising on the Tea Party wave:

First, do you believe that Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional? This seems to be the unguarded view of Colorado Republican U.S. Senate candidate Ken Buck and other Tea Party advocates of "constitutionalism." It reflects a conviction that the federal government has only those powers specifically enumerated in the Constitution -- which doesn't mention retirement insurance or health care.

This view is logically consistent -- as well as historically uninformed, morally irresponsible and politically disastrous. The Constitution, in contrast to the Articles of Confederation, granted broad power to the federal government to impose taxes and spend funds to "provide for . . . the general welfare" -- at least if Alexander Hamilton and a number of Supreme Court rulings are to be believed. In practice, Social Security abolition would push perhaps 13 million elderly Americans into destitution, blurring the line between conservative idealism and Social Darwinism.

This approach undermines a large conservative achievement. Despite early misgivings about Social Security and the Civil Rights Act, Ronald Reagan moved Republicans past Alf Landon's resistance to the New Deal and Barry Goldwater's opposition to federal civil rights law, focusing instead on economic growth and national strength. A consistent "constitutionalism" would entangle Republicans in an endless, unfolding political gaffe -- opposing, in moments of candor, unemployment insurance, the minimum wage, the federal highway system and the desegregation of lunch counters.

A second question of Tea Party candidates: Do you believe that American identity is undermined by immigration? An internal debate has broken out on this issue among Tea Party favorites. Tom Tancredo, running for Colorado governor, raises the prospect of bombing Mecca, urges the president to return to his Kenyan "homeland" and calls Miami a "Third World country" -- managing to offend people on four continents. Dick Armey of FreedomWorks appropriately criticizes Tancredo's "harsh and uncharitable and mean-spirited attitude on the immigration issue." But the extremes of the movement, during recent debates on birthright citizenship and the Manhattan mosque, seem intent on depicting Hispanics and Muslims as a fifth column.

There is no method more likely to create ethnic resentment and separatism than unfair suspicion. The nativist impulse is the enemy of assimilation. In a nation where minorities now comprise two-fifths of children under 18, Republicans should also understand that tolerating nativism would bring slow political asphyxiation.

Question three: Do you believe that gun rights are relevant to the health-care debate? Nevada Republican U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle raised this issue by asserting that, "If this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies." Far from reflecting the spirit of the Founders (who knew how to deal with the Whiskey Rebellion), the implied resort to political violence is an affectation -- more foolish than frightening. But it is toxic for the GOP to be associated with the armed and juvenile.

Most Americans who identify with the Tea Party movement are understandably concerned about the size and reach of government. Their enthusiasm is a clear Republican advantage. But Tea Party populism is just as clearly incompatible with some conservative and Republican beliefs. It is at odds with Abraham Lincoln's inclusive tone and his conviction that government policies could empower individuals. It is inconsistent with religious teaching on government's responsibility to seek the common good and to care for the weak. It does not reflect a Burkean suspicion of radical social change.

The Democratic political nightmare is now obvious and overwhelming. The Republican challenge is different: building a majority on an unstable, slightly cracked foundation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/24/AR2010082405001.html

healthpellets
08-25-2010, 04:08 PM
questions two and three are irrelevant if we're talking about the Taxed Enough Already movement as originally formed.

BucEyedPea
08-25-2010, 04:35 PM
Why the Tea Party is toxic for the GOP
Wishful thinking. Their views are more in line with more Americans just not in their entirety.

Yet the Republican Party suffers its own difficulty -- an untested ideology at the core of its appeal. If your talking old right conservativism well THAT has been tested and shown to have brought incredible economic growth in record time compared to the history of other nations in the world.

If you're talking the wing that follows Trotsky—the NeoCons, you have a good point. If your talking the BIG govt wing you're talking about the Neo-Mercantilist BIG GOVT Whig'ish wing.

First, do you believe that Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional? [/quote[
Yes but that doesn't mean they're going to go away overnight or that people are just going to be put on the street overnight. The left progressives demagogue this debate.

This seems to be the unguarded view of Colorado Republican U.S. Senate candidate Ken Buck and other Tea Party advocates of "constitutionalism." It reflects a conviction that the federal government has only those powers specifically enumerated in the Constitution -- which doesn't mention retirement insurance or health care.
Exactly and it does happen to be the facts.

This view is logically consistent -- as well as historically uninformed, morally irresponsible and politically disastrous.
It is logically consistent AND Constitutionally consistent. It is not historically uninformed though. Whether or not it is morally irresponsible that's an opinion based on values.

The Constitution, in contrast to the Articles of Confederation, granted broad power to the federal government to impose taxes and spend funds to "provide for . . . the general welfare" -- at least if Alexander Hamilton and a number of Supreme Court rulings are to be believed.
It does not do this. I was Hamilton's opinion but all his ideas, like this, during the original CC were rejected. Madison, who wrote the document and who was a Federalist during the Convention even, rejected Hamilton's views on this. Unfortunately, Hamilton has had a hold on both parties today with the left going even further then him even.

In practice, Social Security abolition would push perhaps 13 million elderly Americans into destitution, blurring the line between conservative idealism and Social Darwinism.
No one in the Tea Party plans on abolishing this overnight. Ron Paul even said he wouldn't. He feels we didn't get here overnight. It's also considered an agreement the govt has made with certain people who has to honor it.
Ron believes in allowing youth to opt out but not taking away funds people put in. The way this is being said is demagoguing the issue.

But if our govt is really bankrupt this just may happen no matter who is in power.

A second question of Tea Party candidates: Do you believe that American identity is undermined by immigration?
NO and I know of none that do. I think some probably do but this is a bipartisan issue. Most don't like ILLEGAL immigration. You're framing the argument as a strawman.

An internal debate has broken out on this issue among Tea Party favorites. Tom Tancredo, running for Colorado governor, raises the prospect of bombing Mecca, urges the president to return to his Kenyan "homeland" and calls Miami a "Third World country" -- managing to offend people on four continents. Dick Armey of FreedomWorks appropriately criticizes Tancredo's "harsh and uncharitable and mean-spirited attitude on the immigration issue." But the extremes of the movement, during recent debates on birthright citizenship and the Manhattan mosque, seem intent on depicting Hispanics and Muslims as a fifth column.
I don't like Tancredo. That's the NeoCon wing which is those railing on the Mosque and those who are allowing themselves to be hoodwinked by the NeoCons, as Trotsky's "Useful Idiots." The Tea Party is a very diverse crowd.

The birthright citizenship is not limited to the TeaParty in terms of support.
It's a hard left and/or socialist open-borders folks who thing the earth belongs to everyone.

Question three: Do you believe that gun rights are relevant to the health-care debate?

Nevada Republican U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle raised this issue by asserting that, "If this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies." Far from reflecting the spirit of the Founders


(who knew how to deal with the Whiskey Rebellion),
An unfortunate statist event.


.. the implied resort to political violence is an affectation -- more foolish than frightening. But it is toxic for the GOP to be associated with the armed and juvenile.

Oh I think the left is creating an environment for revolution when they shove down new laws despite what most of the people think about it.
You're the ones acting like the fascists now. This is very much along the lines of our First Revolution....but it CAN be done peacefully through nullification and secession.:D

Most Americans who identify with the Tea Party movement are understandably concerned about the size and reach of government. Their enthusiasm is a clear Republican advantage. But Tea Party populism is just as clearly incompatible with some conservative and Republican beliefs. It is at odds with Abraham Lincoln's inclusive tone and his conviction that government policies could empower individuals. It is inconsistent with religious teaching on government's responsibility to seek the common good and to care for the weak. It does not reflect a Burkean suspicion of radical social change.
It's obvious to me that you are associating the Tea Party with one wing—the Big Govt conservative wing and NeoConservative wing who are not limited govt types. I say this because you cited Lincoln who was a tyrant, favored big govt of Hamilton and neo-Mercantilism for the north at the expense of the south with a very high tariff that was destructive to the south. This was so northern industrialists could be given public works projects with subsidies. These corporate interests put Lincoln in power. You're talking BIG govt conservatives.

The Democratic political nightmare is now obvious and overwhelming. The Republican challenge is different: building a majority on an unstable, slightly cracked foundation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/24/AR2010082405001.html

Ugh...the Post is sooooooooooo Estblishment. This writer certainly doesn't understand the TeaParty and doesn't even bring up the issue of permanent warfare. Make TEA—not war!

Taco John
08-25-2010, 05:21 PM
Yeah, questions two and three have nothing to do with Tea Party politics. All that article shows me is that people still don't understand the difference between the core of the tea party, and the counter-movement to try and co-opt it into the neo-con movement. I don't think many people understand or can differentiate that the Republican party is at war between these two factions, and that the neo-con establishment is attempting to fold the tea party in with them.

Articles like this help them with that effort, but are hardly relevant to what's actually happening with the tea party movement.

healthpellets
08-25-2010, 05:46 PM
i didn't answer Q1, but yes...i believe that it is.

and that the neo-con establishment is attempting to fold the tea party in with them.

and therein lies the problem.

HonestChieffan
08-25-2010, 06:38 PM
Toxic for people to think, have their own views, organize behind people who share those values. Toxic? Toxic for the failure known as Obama. Not toxic for the country.

Saul Good
08-25-2010, 06:59 PM
I love it when Dems try to give advice to conservatives. Thanks for your concern. Call me when your congressional approval climbs above 20%.

HonestChieffan
08-25-2010, 07:02 PM
Well, we are nazi's right? Thats what nan said anyway. Gotta wonder, is Obama Toxic for the old traditional democrat party? Or are the old traditional dems pretty tickled with the far left Obama and Pelosi's of the party designing the new party as they have?

Calcountry
08-25-2010, 07:05 PM
Hope, CHANGE.

HonestChieffan
08-25-2010, 07:08 PM
Tea Party seems to be helping the conservative candidates and the toxic nature of that is the demise of idiots in office regardless of their party affiliation.....the rise of a moderate to conservative majority is not something the leftie moonbats like Orange can relate to.

Bwana
08-25-2010, 08:33 PM
ROFL

You bat shit crazy moon bat.

BIG_DADDY
08-25-2010, 08:36 PM
ROFL

You bat shit crazy moon bat.

Anything that's not Stalinesque is toxic to orange.

orange
08-25-2010, 08:41 PM
ROFL

You bat shit crazy moon bat.

Anything that's not Stalinesque is toxic to orange.

MICHAEL GERSON

Career
Prior to joining the Bush Administration, he was a senior policy advisor with The Heritage Foundation, a conservative public policy research institution.[3] He also worked at various times as an aide to Indiana Senator Dan Coats and a speechwriter for the Presidential campaign of Bob Dole before briefly leaving the political world to cover it as a journalist for U.S. News & World Report.[4] Gerson also worked at one point as a ghostwriter for Charles Colson.[5]

In early 1999, Karl Rove recruited Gerson for the Bush campaign.[5]

Gerson was named by Time as one of "The 25 Most Influential Evangelicals In America" in the magazine's February 7, 2005 issue of the magazine, listing Gerson as the ninth most influential.[3]

[edit] Speechwriter
Gerson joined the Bush campaign before 2000 as a speechwriter and went on to head the White House speechwriting team.

"No one doubts that he did his job exceptionally well", wrote Ramesh Ponnuru in a 2007 article otherwise very critical of Gerson in National Review. Bush's speechwriters had more prominence in the administration than their predecessors did under previous presidents because Bush's speeches did most of the work of defending the president's policies, since administration spokesmen and press conferences didn't do that, Ponnuru wrote. On the other hand, he wrote, the speeches would announce new policies that were never implemented, making the speechwriting in some ways less influential than ever.[6]

On June 14, 2006, it was announced that Gerson was leaving the White House to pursue other writing and policy work.[7] He was replaced as Bush's chief speechwriter by WSJ chief editor William McGurn.



Just another moonbat. ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

What is it 'Hamas' Jenkins keeps calling you guys? "ignorant hillbillies?"

Damn. I never thought I would see the day when he understated anything.

Bwana
08-25-2010, 08:42 PM
Anything that's not Stalinesque is toxic to orange.

The sun sets in the west.

Bwana
08-25-2010, 08:47 PM
MICHAEL GERSON

What is it 'Hamas' Jenkins keeps calling you guys? "ignorant hillbillies?"

Damn. I never thought I would see the day when he understated anything.

Do you ever get tired of licking the salt of Barry's dick? As far as Jenkins, I don't to worked up about a guy whos picture is in the Hall of classics, holding a bag of dog shit, but if you want to hug his nuts too, knock yourself out, moon bat. :)

orange
08-25-2010, 08:53 PM
moon bat

Michael Gerson - who do you think is his favorite, Trotsky or Lenin?

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Bwana
08-25-2010, 09:18 PM
Michael Gerson - who do you think is his favorite, Trotsky or Lenin?

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

http://rlv.zcache.com/anti_obama_zombies_white_tshirt-p235312383690050182y270_400.jpg

First of all, is that the Washington Post has confused the terms Conservative, Republican and TEA Party. They seem to be assuming that they all apply to the same people. Conservatives and TEA Party are very close in their views on many things although there are social conservatives and then there are fiscal conservatives and these people are not necessarily the same people.

The TEA Party is backing candidates that are running on the Republican slate, because they know that on the Democrat slate, there is a total lack of sanity. November 2, 2010 sanity returns to the USA and Washington DC, moon bats can pack their bags and get the fuck out.

healthpellets
08-25-2010, 09:30 PM
http://rlv.zcache.com/anti_obama_zombies_white_tshirt-p235312383690050182y270_400.jpg

where can i get one of those?

healthpellets
08-25-2010, 09:31 PM
Michael Gerson - who do you think is his favorite, Trotsky or Lenin?

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

of course you realize he was calling you a moonbat...not gerson. but it's much easier for you to play that game if you don't acknowledge that.

Bwana
08-25-2010, 09:34 PM
where can i get one of those?

http://www.zazzle.com/anti_obama_zombies_white_tshirt-235312383690050182

healthpellets
08-25-2010, 09:37 PM
http://www.zazzle.com/anti_obama_zombies_white_tshirt-235312383690050182

holly balls! $51? i think i can have one printed for cheaper. great idea though.

alanm
08-25-2010, 09:50 PM
I love it when Dems try to give advice to conservatives. Thanks for your concern. Call me when your congressional approval climbs above 20%.Heh.

Bwana
08-25-2010, 09:51 PM
holly balls! $51? i think i can have one printed for cheaper. great idea though.

Heh, one of the stickers I have on the back of my Super Duty. This is one of the kindest. :evil:

BucEyedPea
08-25-2010, 10:26 PM
Michael Gerson - who do you think is his favorite, Trotsky or Lenin?

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Trotsky. Did you know the Heritage Foundation is considered mostly Neo Conservative by other small govt conservatives? I can show you something they wrote about more govt involvement in healthcare that was written in the 1980s'. Don't be fooled by those wearing conservative clothing.

Taco John
08-26-2010, 01:43 AM
MICHAEL GERSON

Career
Prior to joining the Bush Administration, he was a senior policy advisor with The Heritage Foundation, a conservative public policy research institution.[3] He also worked at various times as an aide to Indiana Senator Dan Coats and a speechwriter for the Presidential campaign of Bob Dole before briefly leaving the political world to cover it as a journalist for U.S. News & World Report.[4] Gerson also worked at one point as a ghostwriter for Charles Colson.[5]

In early 1999, Karl Rove recruited Gerson for the Bush campaign.[5]

Gerson was named by Time as one of "The 25 Most Influential Evangelicals In America" in the magazine's February 7, 2005 issue of the magazine, listing Gerson as the ninth most influential.[3]

[edit] Speechwriter
Gerson joined the Bush campaign before 2000 as a speechwriter and went on to head the White House speechwriting team.

"No one doubts that he did his job exceptionally well", wrote Ramesh Ponnuru in a 2007 article otherwise very critical of Gerson in National Review. Bush's speechwriters had more prominence in the administration than their predecessors did under previous presidents because Bush's speeches did most of the work of defending the president's policies, since administration spokesmen and press conferences didn't do that, Ponnuru wrote. On the other hand, he wrote, the speeches would announce new policies that were never implemented, making the speechwriting in some ways less influential than ever.[6]

On June 14, 2006, it was announced that Gerson was leaving the White House to pursue other writing and policy work.[7] He was replaced as Bush's chief speechwriter by WSJ chief editor William McGurn.



Just another moonbat. ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

What is it 'Hamas' Jenkins keeps calling you guys? "ignorant hillbillies?"

Damn. I never thought I would see the day when he understated anything.


That would explain why Gershon doesn't know what he's talking about.

orange
08-26-2010, 02:29 AM
of course you realize he was calling you a moonbat...not gerson. but it's much easier for you to play that game if you don't acknowledge that.

Show me where I posted anything except GERSON'S article.

Of course if he's just spouting random insults totally unrelated to the thread, then he's just stupid - not necessarily ignorant.

And it's also easy to call you stupid if you don't acknowledge that.

go bowe
08-26-2010, 02:17 PM
Do you ever get tired of licking the salt of Barry's dick? As far as Jenkins, I don't to worked up about a guy whos picture is in the Hall of classics, holding a bag of dog shit, but if you want to hug his nuts too, knock yourself out, moon bat. :)link?

go bowe
08-26-2010, 02:20 PM
Show me where I posted anything except GERSON'S article.

Of course if he's just spouting random insults totally unrelated to the thread, then he's just stupid - not necessarily ignorant.

And it's also easy to call you stupid if you don't acknowledge that.everybody must get stoned, errr stupid, errr stoned stupid (my favorite)...

orange
08-26-2010, 04:58 PM
http://www.amusei.com/images/everybody-must-get-stoned1.jpg

KC Dan
08-26-2010, 06:08 PM
http://www.amusei.com/images/everybody-must-get-stoned1.jpg

I'm going to see Dylan and Mellencamp Saturday. Hopefully I won't be converted

Bwana
08-26-2010, 06:09 PM
link?

Thread:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=134294

orange
08-26-2010, 06:13 PM
I'm going to see Dylan and Mellencamp Saturday. Hopefully I won't be converted

Maybe not converted, but you must get stoned. It's tradition.