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View Full Version : Legal Should we decriminalize the possession and use of marijuana?


healthpellets
08-25-2010, 10:19 PM
so...should we decriminalize the possession and use of marijuana?

i was just reading THIS STORY (http://www.kansascity.com/2010/08/25/2174949/overland-park-man-charged-after.html) and figured we might as well discuss this too.

Overland Park man charged after police find 96 pot plants in basement

Johnson County prosecutors on Wednesday charged Joseph H. Radetsky, 43, with cultivating marijuana, illegally possessing prescription narcotics, not having a drug tax stamp for the marijuana, and two counts of possessing drug paraphernalia.

He had his first court appearance Wednesday.

Johnson County deputies arrested Radetsky on Tuesday after raiding a home where he lived in the 9700 block of Craig Street, deputies said.

The plants were growing in water and nutrients and were of different sizes and stages of development, they said.


Do we as a society agree that this is a good use of our tax dollars, particularily in these tough economic times?

HonestChieffan
08-25-2010, 10:21 PM
Let him rot in prison

blaise
08-25-2010, 10:22 PM
I doubt the OP police have that many other things to do, but in general I think it's a waste.

chiefsnorth
08-25-2010, 10:23 PM
I wonder what all the people who make a living in the drug trade today would do. Go to college?

healthpellets
08-25-2010, 10:25 PM
I doubt the OP police have that many other things to do, but in general I think it's a waste.

i hope it went better than this raid...

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alnorth
08-26-2010, 12:00 AM
Yes. Doesn't personally matter to me since I dont use it, but what we are doing now is stupid. There are two things that make sense in my mind.

Either we completely legalise pot and allow the manufacture, sale, and use of marijuana...

...or we should start sending people to prison for producing and using tobacco and alchohol, two substances which are both a HELL of a lot more dangerous than weed.

Keep the harder drugs which can sicken and kill you a lot faster than the above 3 illegal without a prescription.

ForeverChiefs58
08-26-2010, 07:23 AM
They should make it legal and tax the shit out of it.

BigMeatballDave
08-26-2010, 07:25 AM
Let him rot in prison
:rolleyes:

ForeverChiefs58
08-26-2010, 07:26 AM
If it helps pull California out of debt you will see a lot of other states follow.

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 07:56 AM
They should make it legal and tax the shit out of it.

not sure why we need to tax the hell out of it. at least no more than the ridiculous cigarette tax.

and i'm pretty sure you can't justify a major tax on weed cause it doesn't cause the "health problems that society has to pay for" like cigs and alcohol.

ForeverChiefs58
08-26-2010, 08:38 AM
not sure why we need to tax the hell out of it. at least no more than the ridiculous cigarette tax.

and i'm pretty sure you can't justify a major tax on weed cause it doesn't cause the "health problems that society has to pay for" like cigs and alcohol.

I think it needs to be proposed that way so more people will be on board with legalizing it. Use as an incentive to get passed. Most people will be on board if they know revenue will be used to help something else in need ie gambling used to help education.

alnorth
08-26-2010, 08:43 AM
I think it needs to be proposed that way so more people will be on board with legalizing it. Use as an incentive to get passed. Most people will be on board if they know revenue will be used to help something else in need ie gambling used to help education.

Pretty much. Decriminalisation is being killed by the old people who still remember "reefer madness" in the back of their decrepit brains. We can wait another 20 or 30 years for them to die, but this is the only real plausible way to decriminalise MJ anywhere right now.

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 08:52 AM
Pretty much. Decriminalisation is being killed by the old people who still remember "reefer madness" in the back of their decrepit brains. We can wait another 20 or 30 years for them to die, but this is the only real plausible way to decriminalise MJ anywhere right now.

death panels should take care of them. :)

ForeverChiefs58
08-26-2010, 09:25 AM
Can you imagine what state's bugets would look like if they took away alcohol and gambling? With all the problems with education, I wonder what it would look like without money from the lottery?
Off the top of my head restaurants, bars, parties esp. college, social gatherings and meeting opposite sex, gambling, sporting events in general, even the act of tailgating would all be a completely different experience and economy without alcohol. I think mary jane would be more profitable than alcohol and boost many other industies as well.

nstygma
08-26-2010, 09:54 AM
4 more plants and he'd be looking at Fed time. he lucked out on that

Duck Dog
08-26-2010, 10:28 AM
Let him rot in prison

WTF? Prison time over pot? The alcohol and tobacco industries have done a great job in brain washing people into thinking pot is some dangerous gateway drug. When in fact it's never caused one death. Whoever decided drinking alcohol was safer than smoking pot is an absolute retard.

And no...I'm not calling you a retard. ;)

Reaper16
08-26-2010, 10:34 AM
This is the easiest 'yes' in the history of polls.

Saulbadguy
08-26-2010, 10:42 AM
I've never touched the stuff, I never would if it was legal, but it makes absolute zero sense to me why alcohol is legal and MJ is not.

BigMeatballDave
08-26-2010, 10:46 AM
I'd like to hear from the 'no' voters.

alnorth
08-26-2010, 11:01 AM
I'd like to hear from the 'no' voters.

them dang whipper-snappers and their..."drugs". (visible sputtering rage) Get a job, hippies!

morphius
08-26-2010, 11:15 AM
Can you imagine what state's bugets would look like if they took away alcohol and gambling? With all the problems with education, I wonder what it would look like without money from the lottery?
Off the top of my head restaurants, bars, parties esp. college, social gatherings and meeting opposite sex, gambling, sporting events in general, even the act of tailgating would all be a completely different experience and economy without alcohol. I think mary jane would be more profitable than alcohol and boost many other industies as well.
Doubtful, since most people would just grow their own to avoid the taxes.

Dave Lane
08-26-2010, 11:16 AM
And no...I'm not calling you a retard. ;)

Really? I'd like to understand the logic of this conclusion.

Saul Good
08-26-2010, 11:19 AM
Doubtful, since most people would just grow their own to avoid the taxes.

Do you see a lot of people growing tobacco in order to get around the cigarette tax?

Cave Johnson
08-26-2010, 11:21 AM
4 more plants and he'd be looking at Fed time. he lucked out on that

I suspect he might have been aware of federal drug laws, which, btw, recently reduced the sentence disparity in crack vs. coke from 100/1 to only 20/1.

Easy yes.

Detoxing
08-26-2010, 11:23 AM
Do you see a lot of people growing tobacco in order to get around the cigarette tax?

But how hard is it to grow tobacco vs growing weed? To my understanding, they're not even comparable. Weed will grow anywhere.

I'm for legalizing it, but we cant ignore that there would be some issues to deal with. People will grow their own MJ.

morphius
08-26-2010, 11:24 AM
I've never touched the stuff, I never would if it was legal, but it makes absolute zero sense to me why alcohol is legal and MJ is not.
I've never touched it, but my assumption is that you can drink without getting drunk, I don't know that you can smoke pot without getting high.

Cave Johnson
08-26-2010, 11:26 AM
FYI, don't smoke pot in MO and then get injured on the job. Regardless of when you smoked, your benefits will be cut by 50%, whether you were high at the time or not.

Saulbadguy
08-26-2010, 11:26 AM
I've never touched it, but my assumption is that you can drink without getting drunk, I don't know that you can smoke pot without getting high.

You actually cannot drink without being impaired, somewhat.

morphius
08-26-2010, 11:26 AM
But how hard is it to grow tobacco vs growing weed? To my understanding, they're not even comparable. Weed will grow anywhere.

I'm for legalizing it, but we cant ignore that there would be some issues to deal with. People will grow their own MJ.
Exactly, they are not huge leafs or anything like that and so the drying our process and farming it should be easier. I think you can easily grow pot in a kitchen window potted plant, the same would not hold true for tobacco.

Cave Johnson
08-26-2010, 11:27 AM
I've never touched it, but my assumption is that you can drink without getting drunk, I don't know that you can smoke pot without getting high.

From what I hear, just smoking a little, or not inhaling deeply is similar to drinking a small amount of alcohol.

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 11:29 AM
But how hard is it to grow tobacco vs growing weed? To my understanding, they're not even comparable. Weed will grow anywhere.

I'm for legalizing it, but we cant ignore that there would be some issues to deal with. People will grow their own MJ.

you can grow tobacco, but it takes a lot of trial and error (and some skill) to have a productive crop. and even then, it's not much, if any, safer than the crap put out by Phillip Morris.

not to mention it take a fair amount of space as well.

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 11:31 AM
From what I hear, just smoking a little, or not inhaling deeply is similar to drinking a small amount of alcohol.

not sure if it matters.

a DUI is a DUI. but with smoking, i'd suggest you don't drive after you've smoked any.

Pants
08-26-2010, 11:31 AM
Exactly, they are not huge leafs or anything like that and so the drying our process and farming it should be easier. I think you can easily grow pot in a kitchen window potted plant, the same would not hold true for tobacco.

Growing good pot takes some work. People don't like the stuff that grows in your back yard. The problem I see is there being black market of sorts for pot even if it's legalized. It might end up just being cheaper to buy it from a dealer rather than the store. It WOULD still provide a crap ton of tax revenue and it would lessen the strain on our prison system.

Saul Good
08-26-2010, 11:32 AM
But how hard is it to grow tobacco vs growing weed? To my understanding, they're not even comparable. Weed will grow anywhere.

I'm for legalizing it, but we cant ignore that there would be some issues to deal with. People will grow their own MJ.

I guess, but it's still not likely that more than a handful of people will do it. Even with the taxes, you can buy a pack of 20 cigarettes for under $5.00. That's less than a quarter apiece. If you could by a joint for a quarter, why would you bother growing your own unless it was a hobby like growing your own tomatoes?

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 11:33 AM
to grow weed yourself, you have to be a fairly dedicated smoker. at least now, it's not as easy as just putting some on your windowsill and letting it get some light. unless you're just growing crappy plant haphazardly. which, in that case, i guess you don't.

Saul Good
08-26-2010, 11:34 AM
Growing good pot takes some work. People don't like the stuff that grows in your back yard. The problem I see is there being black market of sorts for pot even if it's legalized. It might end up just being cheaper to buy it from a dealer rather than the store. It WOULD still provide a crap ton of tax revenue and it would lessen the strain on our prison system.

There won't be dealers anymore. The amount of weed you would have to move trying to under-cut retailers selling it for $0.25 per joint in order to make any money would be staggering.

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 11:39 AM
There won't be dealers anymore. The amount of weed you would have to move trying to under-cut retailers selling it for $0.25 per joint in order to make any money would be staggering.

there will be a market for organic / natural marijuana. and i suspect that the herb sold by Nabisco and RJR will be laced with other addictive and harmful additives.

so i can see some popular organic marijuana farmers setting up shop at farmer's markets and doing quite well.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 11:45 AM
They should make it legal and tax the shit out of it.

Those taxes would go directly to the fat cats and do nothing for society.

Isn't this repost about 200000000000 on this very same subject?

Saul Good
08-26-2010, 11:45 AM
there will be a market for organic / natural marijuana. and i suspect that the herb sold by Nabisco and RJR will be laced with other addictive and harmful additives.

so i can see some popular organic marijuana farmers setting up shop at farmer's markets and doing quite well.

Of course. My point is that it won't have a major impact on the amount of tax revenue that should be expected to come from legalization and taxation.

nstygma
08-26-2010, 11:58 AM
I suspect he might have been aware of federal drug laws, which, btw, recently reduced the sentence disparity in crack vs. coke from 100/1 to only 20/1.

Easy yes.
yeah, crack law. why not just introduce some common sense into the sentencing guidelines? i know someone doing 6 years for getting caught with some sudafed - 6 or 8 store-bought packs.

ForeverChiefs58
08-26-2010, 11:59 AM
There won't be dealers anymore. The amount of weed you would have to move trying to under-cut retailers selling it for $0.25 per joint in order to make any money would be staggering.

Yeah you are not going to go through the trouble of making a few calls try to find someone who has some, or try to grow it and take care of it, when you could just go up to Sams and by a brick of it for $30 or whatever.

http://thefreshscent.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/bails.jpg

Hydrae
08-26-2010, 12:00 PM
Of course. My point is that it won't have a major impact on the amount of tax revenue that should be expected to come from legalization and taxation.

The savings on removing the enforcement costs we have now would add quite a bit to the bottom line of most governmental budgets.

PhillyChiefFan
08-26-2010, 12:01 PM
Of course. My point is that it won't have a major impact on the amount of tax revenue that should be expected to come from legalization and taxation.

Yep, and not to mention the tax dollars saved by police enforcement funding being used elsewhere, and by not housing petty criminals in prison for MJ related charges.

I don't smoke it, but it just seems crazy that we keep something illegal that has never killed anyone, but allow alcohol and tobacco products to be sold everywhere and to anyone over the age of 21 and 18 respectively.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-26-2010, 12:01 PM
Let him rot in prison

There's the Republicans I know. For someone who speaks of liberty, and freedom, you sure like to see people in prison.

PhillyChiefFan
08-26-2010, 12:01 PM
The savings on removing the enforcement costs we have now would add quite a bit to the bottom line of most governmental budgets.

beat me too it :D

ForeverChiefs58
08-26-2010, 12:03 PM
also good way to fix our crowded overpopulated prisons.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-26-2010, 12:13 PM
also good way to fix our crowded overpopulated prisons.

Let's just build more! Jobs! Morality crimes FTW!!!

ROYC75
08-26-2010, 12:29 PM
Might as well, gives the illegal immigrants a better reason to come to America and supply the crooks on Capital Hill more dope to smoke with their Hope To Change mantra.

Saul Good
08-26-2010, 12:52 PM
There's the Republicans I know. For someone who speaks of liberty, and freedom, you sure like to see people in prison.

I agree with him in that we have laws, and we should enforce them or get rid of them. In this case, he knowingly broke the law, so he should pay the price. Whether or not we should legalize this crime is a different question entirely. Really, there are two issues:

1. Should we legalize weed? Yes

2. Should we enforce all of our laws? Yes

As long as it's illegal, we should prosecute those who use/grow/sell it.

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 12:58 PM
I agree with him in that we have laws, and we should enforce them or get rid of them. In this case, he knowingly broke the law, so he should pay the price. Whether or not we should legalize this crime is a different question entirely. Really, there are two issues:

1. Should we legalize weed? Yes

2. Should we enforce all of our laws? Yes

As long as it's illegal, we should prosecute those who use/grow/sell it.

the difference between this crime, and a majority of crimes, is that he literally hurt no one. an absolute victimless crime.

Saul Good
08-26-2010, 01:02 PM
the difference between this crime, and a majority of crimes, is that he literally hurt no one. an absolute victimless crime.

Then the answer is to take it off the books, not selective enforcement.

Inspector
08-26-2010, 01:07 PM
Pretty much. Decriminalisation is being killed by the old people who still remember "reefer madness" in the back of their decrepit brains. We can wait another 20 or 30 years for them to die, but this is the only real plausible way to decriminalise MJ anywhere right now.

Uh...no......I'm one of the "old people" with a decrepit brain and when my generation was young we thought it would be legal by now. The "old people" who watched Reefer Madness" are all dead or very, very elderly and probably don't remember where they live, let alone anything about that movie. It came out in like the 30's or something I think.

It will never be legal. There are way too many people making money from it being illegal. It is part of the support system for a huge industry - the judicial system. Everything from cops, prosecutors, prison employees, people who build prisons, court reporters, etc, etc....

I see more of the "keep it illegal" mindset from younger people. Those of us who have been around and observed planet Earth for awhile know better than to think it's a good idea to keep it illegal.

And no, never tried it.

Like everything, it's about the money. Yeah, it could be taxed but it would cause a downside to another huge industry.

Not to mention all of the people who just have some kind of need to control others. And there are plenty of those around.

And yeah, it's been discussed about 1,365,768 times on this message board. (I might be off by one or two)

go bowe
08-26-2010, 01:49 PM
1,365,768 times?

is that all?

Inspector
08-26-2010, 01:55 PM
1,365,768 times?

is that all?

Oops, I missed one.

That would be 1,365,769.

Good catch! :D

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 02:44 PM
There's the Republicans I know. For someone who speaks of liberty, and freedom, you sure like to see people in prison.

Yeah, but think of all the jobs those prisoners create for us!

alnorth
08-26-2010, 03:51 PM
It will never be legal. There are way too many people making money from it being illegal. It is part of the support system for a huge industry - the judicial system. Everything from cops, prosecutors, prison employees, people who build prisons, court reporters, etc, etc....

Well first, it could be legal in CA as soon as this November. (not federally, but they wont enforce it as long as Obama is president)

Second, this argument is nonsense. It is in no way, shape, or form a "support system" for anyone. It costs us a lot of money, while taxing it would bring in billions. There is no financial motive here, it is misguided morality legislation.

Saul Good
08-26-2010, 08:24 PM
Well first, it could be legal in CA as soon as this November. (not federally, but they wont enforce it as long as Obama is president)

Second, this argument is nonsense. It is in no way, shape, or form a "support system" for anyone. It costs us a lot of money, while taxing it would bring in billions. There is no financial motive here, it is misguided morality legislation.

He was on the right track. Tobacco and alcohol companies have a lot of money at stake in keeping pot illegal, and they aren't afraid to spend it accordingly.

Earthling
08-26-2010, 08:38 PM
Then the answer is to take it off the books, not selective enforcement.

Actually we already have selective enforcement if you consider all the "blue laws" still on the books. Like eating strawberry ice-cream on Sunday or selling blue jeans on that day.

Saul Good
08-26-2010, 08:59 PM
Actually we already have selective enforcement if you consider all the "blue laws" still on the books. Like eating strawberry ice-cream on Sunday or selling blue jeans on that day.

Then take those laws off the books. This isn't that hard.

Earthling
08-26-2010, 09:08 PM
Then take those laws off the books. This isn't that hard.

I agree but your position earlier was to enforce them untill they are taken off the books....Am I wrong here?

Saul Good
08-26-2010, 09:13 PM
I agree but your position earlier was to enforce them untill they are taken off the books....Am I wrong here?

You aren't wrong. Take them off the books now, and then there is nothing to worry about.

Earthling
08-26-2010, 09:27 PM
Sorry for that repost. For some reason when i post something here it takes a looonnnnggg time to pop up and i thought it didnt go through... Same as when I first log onto Chiefs Planet, None of the other sites I go to does that. Anyway it makes it impossible to actually discuss things here untill I figure out how to clear this up on my end. And so I will lurk. Saul Good I understand what you are saying and don't really disagree. Just shooting a different angle out there.

ForeverChiefs58
08-28-2010, 07:24 PM
Good read

Out-of-state residents can get medical pot cards

HELENA, Mont. – A person doesn't have to live in Montana to receive a medical marijuana card from the state, health officials said Friday.

The Montana Department of Public Health and Human Services discovered what it calls a loophole in state law after reviewing plans to require medical marijuana applicants to have a Montana driver's license or state-issued identification, said department spokesman Chuck Council.

The new driver's license policy was to begin on Monday, but the legal review has halted those plans.

"The law is mute on the subject of legal residency and there is no recourse for the Department of Public Health and Human Services but to keep the situation as it stands," Council said. "On Monday, we will be moving forward, status quo, on the processing of out-of-state applications."

The state health department maintains the medical marijuana patient registry, which stood at about 23,500 patients at the end of July. That's an increase of nearly 4,000 people in just a month, a continuation of the medical pot boom that in the first six months of 2010 has seen more than 12,300 registered users added to the state registry.

Health officials decided to tighten the residency requirements after discovering several people whose permanent residences were outside Montana, such as college students and snowbirds, had applied for medical marijuana cards. It is unclear just how many such applications were received.

But unless the Legislature fixes the state law, health officials have no choice but to accept out-of-state applications, Council said.

State lawmakers are back in session in January, and an interim legislative committee is drafting changes meant to strengthen the law. The current law was passed by voter initiative in 2004, but the registration boom over the past year has exposed gray areas that police and municipal officials say have made oversight and enforcement difficult.

The founder of the Montana Caregivers Network, an advocacy group that has helped sign up thousands of medical marijuana patients, said Friday that the health department's announcement is good news for patients.

"This was a clear violation," Jason Christ said of the plan to require driver's licenses. "I feel like they probably had a lot of calls by people about that."

He has said that any qualifying patient should be able to get a medical marijuana card from Montana, and that he is skeptical the Legislature will act to restrict that access to Montana residents.

"A lot of people have anticipated that the Legislature's going to do a lot of things. They never have," Christ said. "Intentions are great, but you can't take intentions to the bank."

Hog Farmer
08-28-2010, 07:39 PM
If pot was legal there would be no need for speed limit signs.

ForeverChiefs58
08-28-2010, 07:45 PM
If pot was legal there would be no need for speed limit signs.

No need for fighting or yelling either.

go bowe
08-28-2010, 08:25 PM
If pot was legal there would be no need for speed limit signs.yeah my wife gets put out with me because i drive so slow after a :bong: and stop 20 feet before a red light... :Peace: :Peace: :Peace:

Oucho Cinco
08-28-2010, 10:14 PM
yeah my wife gets put out with me because i drive so slow after a :bong: and stop 20 feet before a red light... :Peace: :Peace: :Peace:

From the movie "Billy Jack"?

go bowe
08-29-2010, 12:31 AM
From the movie "Billy Jack"?yeah, just like that...

Oucho Cinco
08-29-2010, 03:02 PM
yeah, just like that...

If you saw that movie either you are in to cult movies or you are really old!

go bowe
08-30-2010, 04:14 PM
really old?

Radar Chief
08-30-2010, 04:21 PM
He was on the right track. Tobacco and alcohol companies have a lot of money at stake in keeping pot illegal, and they aren't afraid to spend it accordingly.

Throw prescription drug companies in there.
Zoloft, Paxil, Prozac, hardly anyone would need that shit if they could just get a little puff, puff, pass.

CoMoChief
08-30-2010, 05:28 PM
No need for fighting or yelling either.

Frito-Lay stocks would boom.