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Jilly
08-26-2010, 10:22 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/29/florida.burn.quran.day/index.html

(CNN) -- In protest of what it calls a religion "of the devil," a nondenominational church in Gainesville, Florida, plans to host an "International Burn a Quran Day" on the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks.

The Dove World Outreach Center says it is hosting the event to remember 9/11 victims and take a stand against Islam. With promotions on its website and Facebook page, it invites Christians to burn the Muslim holy book at the church from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m.

"We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it's causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Pastor Terry Jones told CNN's Rick Sanchez earlier this week.

Jones wrote a book titled "Islam is of the Devil," and the church sells coffee mugs and shirts featuring the phrase.

Muslims and many other Christians -- including some evangelicals -- are fighting the initiative.

The church launched a YouTube channel to disseminate its messages.

"I mean ask yourself, have you ever really seen a really happy Muslim? As they're on the way to Mecca? As they gather together in the mosque on the floor? Does it look like a real religion of joy?" Jones asks in one of his YouTube posts.

"No, to me it looks like a religion of the devil."

The Islamic advocacy group Council on American-Islamic Relations called on Muslims and others to host "Share the Quran" dinners to educate the public during the monthlong fast of Ramadan beginning in August. In a news release, the group announced a campaign to give out 100,000 copies of the Quran to local, state and national leaders.

"American Muslims and other people of conscience should support positive educational efforts to prevent the spread of Islamophobia," said CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper in the release.

The National Association of Evangelicals, the nation's largest umbrella evangelical group, issued a statement urging the church to cancel the event, warning it could cause worldwide tension between the two religions.

"The NAE calls on its members to cultivate relationships of trust and respect with our neighbors of other faiths. God created human beings in his image, and therefore all should be treated with dignity and respect," it said in the statement.

Dove's Facebook page, set up for the September event, has more than 1,600 fans.

"Eternal fire is the only destination the Quran can lead people to, so we want to put the Quran in it's [sic] place -- the fire!" the page says.

But another Facebook group with more than 3,100 fans says it stands "against the disrespect and intolerance that these people have for the Muslim people" and encourages people to report Dove's page to Facebook.

Targeting another group it calls "godless," the Dove center is also hosting a protest against Gainesville Mayor Craig Lowe, who is openly gay, on Monday at Gainesville's City Hall. The group previously fought -- unsuccessfully -- to derail Lowe's election campaign.

"We protest sexual perversion because the Bible protests it. ... What is acceptable to today's leadership becomes acceptable to tomorrow's society," the church says in its blog entry about the event.

Lowe and other government figures and media outlets received e-mails from the church about the event, The Gainesville Sun reported. Lowe isn't concerned with Monday's event.

"I've got other things to do," he said, The Sun reports.

On the outreach center's front lawn, alongside a sign reading "Aug. 2 Protest, No Homo Mayor, City Hall," stands not just one, but three signs bearing the slogan "Islam is of the Devil."

One of the signs -- one reading "Islam" on one side, "Devil" on the other -- was vandalized. On its blog last week, the church said the sign will be replaced.

"This is private property and vandalism is a crime here in America," the blog says. "In Islam, many actions that we consider to be crimes are encouraged, condoned or sheltered under Islamic teaching and practice, though. Another reason to burn a Quran."

Saul Good
08-26-2010, 10:23 AM
I'm sure the Islamists will turn the other cheek.

SNR
08-26-2010, 10:26 AM
"We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it's causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Pastor Terry Jones told CNN's Rick Sanchez earlier this week

That's odd. Stoning was usually his thing, wasn't it?

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsJ/8950-12886.gif

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 10:36 AM
i believe they were denied a burn permit so i'd bet this gets shut down pretty quick.

but maybe a suicide bomber will get there faster than the fire chief.

nstygma
08-26-2010, 11:01 AM
Let's start a "Help a random widow or orphan day"

ROYC75
08-26-2010, 11:52 AM
As much as I despise Islam and the 9/11 attacks, we do offer freedom of speech and religion in America. I support this :The National Association of Evangelicals, the nation's largest umbrella evangelical group, issued a statement urging the church to cancel the event, warning it could cause worldwide tension between the two religions.

BucEyedPea
08-26-2010, 12:14 PM
Unfortunately, there are extremists on both sides of this religious war....which was only a political issue originally.

I was told by a Jewish girl, that the Evangelicals don't really care about them....
Oh, and just because they support Israel, it does not mean that they like Jews. There is a reason why many evangelicals and other devout Christians are pro-Israel. Not saying your friends believe this, but I have met quite a few who actually believe this.

AND

I have met plenty of people who support Israel just so we can either all "die for their sins when the rapture comes" or something along those lines. I was in Nashville once and a man decided to play a song for me on his guitar. In our topic of discussion, the fact that I was a Jew came up. He became immediately excited and wanted to play a song he wrote for me. Basically, it was all about how he is glad we are still around and that Israel exists so we can basically die later. Not very pleasant.


Here's the link she provided to back up her position:
http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2010/06/07/christian-fundamentalists-support-israel-why/


In order for most of today’s Christians to escape physical death, two-thirds of the Jews in Israel must perish, soon. This is the grim prophetic trade-off that fundamentalists rarely discuss publicly, but which is the central motivation in the movement’s support for Israel. It should be clear why they believe that Israel must be defended at all costs by the West.


But they do not hear the two themes put together: “We can avoid death, but only because two-thirds of the Jews of Israel will inevitably die in a future holocaust. America must therefore support the nation of Israel in order to keep the Israelis alive until after the Rapture.” Fundamentalist ministers expect their congregations to put two and two together on their own.

Looks to me that it's just a matter of which extremists get to use violence and kill for their faith.*


* This does not apply to all Christians or Muslims btw. Just trying to isolate the extremists in both camps.....who are trying to stir the pot to agitate the rest of us to one side or the other.

chiefsnorth
08-26-2010, 12:54 PM
There is no "less extreme" version of it. The only difference is how devout they choose to be.

Cave Johnson
08-26-2010, 01:00 PM
There is no "less extreme" version of it. The only difference is how devout they choose to be.

Sorta like whether people follow the Old Testament literally. ;)

Cave Johnson
08-26-2010, 01:01 PM
Nice bookend to the NY 21 yr old d-bag stabs Muslim cabbie story.

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 01:17 PM
Nice bookend to the NY 21 yr old d-bag stabs Muslim cabbie story.

too bad that 21 y/o crazy effer worked for the libs.

Cave Johnson
08-26-2010, 01:31 PM
too bad that 21 y/o crazy effer worked for the libs.

Link?

Everything (i.e., the one article) I've read suggested he was a film student who had shot footage in Afghanistan, had a hatred of Muslims, and was drunk.

ForeverChiefs58
08-26-2010, 01:33 PM
Unfortunately, there are extremists on both sides of this religious war....which was only a political issue originally.

I was told by a Jewish girl, that the Evangelicals don't really care about them....


Looks to me that it's just a matter of which extremists get to use violence and kill for their faith.*


* This does not apply to all Christians or Muslims btw. Just trying to isolate the extremists in both camps.....who are trying to stir the pot to agitate the rest of us to one side or the other.



Christian extremists? they sound dangerous. How many did they kill last month? What about the month before that? Or all of last year? How much does our nation spend on trying to kill these christian extremists?

I hope you can pull your head out of the sand long enough to see where this is going.

When I was in college I remember people being upset about some art that had Jesus on a cross in a toilet bowl of urine. I believe there were some protesters because the art student was on a taxpayer scholarship. The point of the story is nobody died, there wasn't even any violence.

This really is dumb to have to try and point out the obvious huge, vast differences between these religions to posters that have their own head so far up their ass that you could break their nose just by kicking them in the ass.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 01:48 PM
As much as I despise Islam and the 9/11 attacks, we do offer freedom of speech and religion in America. I support this :

Is Islam really a religion?

Brock
08-26-2010, 01:51 PM
They sound like a bunch of Fred Phelps style dumbasses.

Jenson71
08-26-2010, 01:51 PM
Is Islam really a religion?

Yeah.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 01:51 PM
Unfortunately, there are extremists on both sides of this religious war....which was only a political issue originally.

I was told by a Jewish girl, that the Evangelicals don't really care about them....



I've never heard an evangelical talk down about the Jews. The Jews are God's chosen people. Jesus Christ was a Jew.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 01:52 PM
Yeah.

It's more of a political organization bent on world rule.

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 01:53 PM
Link?

Everything (i.e., the one article) I've read suggested he was a film student who had shot footage in Afghanistan, had a hatred of Muslims, and was drunk.

One of the first facts to emerge about Michael Enright, also on his Facebook page, is his affiliation with Intersections International, a non-profit organization that promotes global peace and reconciliation — and that had recently endorsed the Islamic center at Ground Zero. “He was a good guy,” Sara Reef, a program director for the group, told The Journal. “He got along with my colleagues.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2010/08/26/who-is-michael-enright-tracing-the-suspect-in-the-taxi-stabbing/

http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Enright/546564905#!/profile.php?id=546564905

Jenson71
08-26-2010, 01:56 PM
It's more of a political organization bent on world rule.

It's a religion.

stevieray
08-26-2010, 01:56 PM
look! Christian churches do it too!

:rolleyes:

BucEyedPea
08-26-2010, 02:05 PM
I've never heard an evangelical talk down about the Jews. Anyhow, I told her I didn't believe her—at first. The Jews are God's chosen people. Jesus Christ was a Jew. I told her I never heard of that before either. Except historically it's been true in Europe. She claimed it's superficial because her people were just means to and end for Christian salvation. Think of what Ann Coulter said about "perfecting Jews." This girl provided that link and it quoted Gary North who is a Christian on what branch feels that way. I respect Mr. North.

Jilly
08-26-2010, 02:49 PM
Regardless of where you fall on your beliefs about Islam, isn't this just a disgusting display for any Christian church anywhere? I mean, is this what Christians really want people to think about their faith? That's the thing for me, I hate it when people take any faith and do something disgusting like this.

BucEyedPea
08-26-2010, 02:57 PM
Regardless of where you fall on your beliefs about Islam, isn't this just a disgusting display for any Christian church anywhere?
Yes!

I mean, is this what Christians really want people to think about their faith?
It isn't their faith. They're acting like apostates or heretics.

However, there are Catholics that honestly do believe Islam was founded by the devil to halt the growth of their religion which extended from Spain to India at one point per them.

Jenson71
08-26-2010, 03:29 PM
It isn't their faith. They're acting like apostates or heretics.

However, there are Catholics that honestly do believe Islam was founded by the devil to halt the growth of their religion which extended from Spain to India at one point per them.

What Catholics?

alpha_omega
08-26-2010, 03:39 PM
...many actions that we consider to be crimes are encouraged, condoned or sheltered under Islamic teaching and practice, though.

I don't think the burning of holy texts of any kind is a good idea, but they do have a point here.

At some point the moderate Islamists must stand up and speak out against extremism or this kind of stuff will continue to happen.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 03:47 PM
I've never heard an evangelical talk down about the Jews. The Jews are God's chosen people. Jesus Christ was a Jew.

I told her I never heard of that before either. Except historically it's been true in Europe. She claimed it's superficial because her people were just means to and end for Christian salvation. Think of what Ann Coulter said about "perfecting Jews." This girl provided that link and it quoted Gary North who is a Christian on what branch feels that way. I respect Mr. North.

My actual quote is above, this is what is in your post. I think there is a problem here.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Oucho Cinco http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=6956062#post6956062)
I've never heard an evangelical talk down about the Jews. Anyhow, I told her I didn't believe her—at first. The Jews are God's chosen people. Jesus Christ was a Jew.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 03:49 PM
I don't think the burning of holy texts of any kind is a good idea, but they do have a point here.

At some point the moderate Islamists must stand up and speak out against extremism or this kind of stuff will continue to happen.

I have to disagree with you to a point. Their bible/Koran tells them in the last third basically to be extremists. No, I can't tell you which chapter or verse, but I will try to find text from the Koran to back up my point.

BucEyedPea
08-26-2010, 03:56 PM
My actual quote is above, this is what is in your post. I think there is a problem here.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Oucho Cinco http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=6956062#post6956062)
I've never heard an evangelical talk down about the Jews. Anyhow, I told her I didn't believe her—at first. The Jews are God's chosen people. Jesus Christ was a Jew.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Your point? Christ represents the New Testament fulfillment of a Messiah which Judaism rejects. They must accept Christ to be saved or they're going to die and burn in hell with the rest of those who do not accept Christ as their Savior.

orange
08-26-2010, 04:04 PM
I've never heard an evangelical talk down about the Jews. The Jews are God's chosen people. Jesus Christ was a Jew.

http://images.ibsys.com/2004/0225/2873765_200X150.jpg

Lovingway United Pentecostal Church at Colorado and Mississippi, Denver, CO.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 04:32 PM
http://images.ibsys.com/2004/0225/2873765_200X150.jpg

Lovingway United Pentecostal Church at Colorado and Mississippi, Denver, CO.

What is incorrect about that sign? Jesus was killed by Jews, he was a Jew.

I've seen plenty of things taken out of context here, but this one takes the cake.

Jenson71
08-26-2010, 04:33 PM
What is incorrect about that sign? Jesus was killed by Jews, he was a Jew.

He was killed by the Roman Empire.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 04:34 PM
Your point? Christ represents the New Testament fulfillment of a Messiah which Judaism rejects. They must accept Christ to be saved or they're going to die and burn in hell with the rest of those who do not accept Christ as their Savior.

I was making the point that you edited my post with a comment not made by me, then it seems like you attacked my post "with your edit".

As far as your statement, that's what the book says. Your choice is to believe it or not. Makes no real difference to me, I live my life as I see fit I assume that you do the same.

Don't go off the deep end about the post comparing the two quotes, again just pointing out that you hosed up my comment with your words.

orange
08-26-2010, 04:36 PM
What is incorrect about that sign? Jesus was killed by Jews, he was a Jew.

I've seen plenty of things taken out of context here, but this one takes the cake.

The reason I remembered that is because of the controversy it stirred. Virtually every other church in the city asked them to take it down, but they wouldn't. All those churches - Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc. - said it was anti-Semitic. Something about "2000 years of blood-libel and persecution" or the like.

I take them at their word.

The fact that you don't find it anti-Semitic is pretty revealing about your mindset. It explains why you've "never heard an evangelical speaking down about Jews." Because you don't recognize it when you hear it.

Tell me, do 21st century Jews bear the guilt for killing Jesus?

BucEyedPea
08-26-2010, 04:38 PM
I was making the point that you edited my post with a comment not made by me, then it seems like you attacked my post "with your edit".

As far as your statement, that's what the book says. Your choice is to believe it or not. Makes no real difference to me, I live my life as I see fit I assume that you do the same.

Don't go off the deep end about the post comparing the two quotes, again just pointing out that you hosed up my comment with your words.

I attacked you? I haven't a clue what you are even referring to.

EDIT: I just went and re-read it. I think you're reading what I posted all wrong. I agreed with your quote your requoted and then I clarified her point.

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 04:38 PM
Your point? Christ represents the New Testament fulfillment of a Messiah which Judaism rejects. They must accept Christ to be saved or they're going to die and burn in hell with the rest of those who do not accept Christ as their Savior.

IIRC, the burning in hell of anyone is debatable based on translations.

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 04:40 PM
He was killed by the Roman Empire.

that seems accurate.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 04:41 PM
He was killed by the Roman Empire.

Mincing words there guy. Without the Jews doing what they did Pilate would not have done anything. He reluctantly gave in to them but "washed his hands" of Jesus' blood.

Jenson71
08-26-2010, 04:41 PM
IIRC, the burning in hell of anyone is debatable based on translations.

Buc is out of touch with orthodox Christianity. Her religious ideas are based on something her uncle or friend's brother told her 30 years ago.

BucEyedPea
08-26-2010, 04:43 PM
IIRC, the burning in hell of anyone is debatable based on translations.

I'm going by the branch of Christianity in the link. Did you read the link?
As far as translations go, I was raised Catholic, and believe being the originally compiled Bible to be more correct. The King James has over 50,000 errors for the RCC. I am not a practicing Catholic though. I just believe an original of something is more pure. I don't care what anyone wants to believe.

healthpellets
08-26-2010, 04:43 PM
re: hell...

here is a good breakdown...

http://thedaystar.webs.com/interpretation/hell.html

Jenson71
08-26-2010, 04:44 PM
Mincing words there guy. Without the Jews doing what they did Pilate would not have done anything. He reluctantly gave in to them but "washed his hands" of Jesus' blood.

You know the Biblical story. Historically, however, that's not likely. Pilate was the most instrumental in the death of Jesus, and deserves many times over the blame for Christs' death beyond "the Jews".

Jenson71
08-26-2010, 04:44 PM
What Catholics?

What Catholics believe that, Buc?

BucEyedPea
08-26-2010, 04:44 PM
that seems accurate.

No it isn't. They were complicit.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 04:46 PM
The reason I remembered that is because of the controversy it stirred. Virtually every other church in the city asked them to take it down, but they wouldn't. All those churches - Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc. - said it was anti-Semitic. Something about "2000 years of blood-libel and persecution" or the like.

I take them at their word.

The fact that you don't find it anti-Semitic is pretty revealing about your mindset. It explains why you've "never heard an evangelical speaking down about Jews." Because you don't recognize it when you hear it.

Tell me, do 21st century Jews bear the guilt for killing Jesus?

Do you believe in Jesus? I"m pretty sure that any Jew living on the earth today did not do anything during the time frame of 30-34 A.D.

You probably see antisemitism in everything regarding Christianity. Believe what you will and take all men at their word. The words were not untrue, the Jews of that time were responsible for the Crucifixion of Christ. I doubt any Church would stand up and defend your buddy Fred Phelps, but I bet you would.

Believe what you feel best about the sign and about what I said, makes no difference at the end.

Jenson71
08-26-2010, 04:47 PM
No it isn't. They were complicit.

Complicit indicates some possibly of stopping the act. It's unrealistic to have expected people to stop Pilate's execution of Jesus.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 04:47 PM
You know the Biblical story. Historically, however, that's not likely. Pilate was the most instrumental in the death of Jesus, and deserves many times over the blame for Christs' death beyond "the Jews".

So you believe the bible is wrong? Nice. Based on your belief that the Romans killed Jesus we have to assume you believe the Catholic Church killed him.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 04:59 PM
Complicit indicates some possibly of stopping the act. It's unrealistic to have expected people to stop Pilate's execution of Jesus.

Why would they want to stop the execution? They are the ones that were crying for someone other than a Jew to kill him!

orange
08-26-2010, 05:01 PM
Do you believe in Jesus? I"m pretty sure that any Jew living on the earth today did not do anything during the time frame of 30-34 A.D.

You probably see antisemitism in everything regarding Christianity. Believe what you will and take all men at their word. The words were not untrue, the Jews of that time were responsible for the Crucifixion of Christ. I doubt any Church would stand up and defend your buddy Fred Phelps, but I bet you would.

Believe what you feel best about the sign and about what I said, makes no difference at the end.

So you believe the bible is wrong? Nice. Based on your belief that the Romans killed Jesus we have to assume you believe the Catholic Church killed him.

"My buddy, Fred Phelps" - may he burn in Hell - not that there is a Hell - but whatever. - ahem, STFU -



Meanwhile, since you believe the Bible is true, what about:

"Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children."

Who are "all the people?" You know, the people who killed Christ and accepted responsibility. Were they the Jews? or someone else? The ones who bear the guilt for his death forever, even in the 21st Century.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 05:06 PM
"My buddy, Fred Phelps" - may he burn in Hell - not that there is a Hell - but whatever. - ahem, STFU -



Meanwhile, since you believe the Bible is true, what about:
"Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children."Who are "all the people?" You know, the people who killed Christ and accepted responsibility. Were they the Jews? or someone else? The ones who bear the guilt for his death forever, even in the 21st Century.

Argue all you want, the Bible lays it out. Use which ever comic book you wish to bolster your belief.

orange
08-26-2010, 05:09 PM
Argue all you want, the Bible lays it out. Use which ever comic book you wish to bolster your belief.

Answer the question. According to the Bible, who bears the guilt for killing Jesus forever? The Jews? or someone else? The same people who killed him and accepted responsibility.

p.s. The "comic book" I quoted above is Matthew 27:25. A book you've read, perhaps?

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 05:24 PM
Answer the question. According to the Bible, who bears the guilt for killing Jesus forever? The Jews? or someone else? The same people who killed him and accepted responsibility.

p.s. The "comic book" I quoted above is Matthew 27:25. A book you've read, perhaps?

Have you compared Mark, Luke and John?

orange
08-26-2010, 05:29 PM
Have you compared Mark, Luke and John?

...

Answer the question. According to the Bible, who bears the guilt for killing Jesus forever? The Jews? or someone else? The same people who killed him and accepted responsibility.

Still waiting.....

http://www.wpclipart.com/world_history/hourglass.png

ForeverChiefs58
08-26-2010, 05:31 PM
Answer the question. According to the Bible, who bears the guilt for killing Jesus forever? The Jews? or someone else? The same people who killed him and accepted responsibility.

p.s. The "comic book" I quoted above is Matthew 27:25. A book you've read, perhaps?

According to scripture, No one "bears guilt" cause His death gave forgiveness to all. It wasn't forever either, He rose three days later, commonly known as Easter Sunday.

orange
08-26-2010, 05:35 PM
According to scripture, No one "bears guilt" cause His death gave forgiveness to all. It wasn't forever either, He rose three days later, commonly known as Easter Sunday.

http://www.antisemitism.org.il/upload/images/42419_l.jpg

I guess these guys didn't get the memo.

mikey23545
08-26-2010, 06:07 PM
Unfortunately, there are extremists on both sides of this religious war....which was only a political issue originally.

I was told by a Jewish girl, that the Evangelicals don't really care about them....


Looks to me that it's just a matter of which extremists get to use violence and kill for their faith.*


* This does not apply to all Christians or Muslims btw. Just trying to isolate the extremists in both camps.....who are trying to stir the pot to agitate the rest of us to one side or the other.

What bullfuck, just like the rest of your posts. So extremist Christians who are going to burn some books, are in your mind the same as Muslim extremists who just burn (or behead) people.

Dumbass.

Earthling
08-26-2010, 07:10 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/29/florida.burn.quran.day/index.html


"We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it's causing billions of people to go to hell, ........


Lol. I remember a sermon I attended as a boy in Wichita at a Southern Baptist church where the preacher said almost the same thing except it was the poor Catholics who were headed to hell and he asked us each to pray for those poor souls.

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 07:21 PM
I won't say what I think the origin of the Islamic organization might be, but if they worship the same God as the Christian and Jewish faiths there a a great disconnect in the manner of action.

You've all heard the sayings comparing the two; I'd rather serve a God that gave his Son for my sins rather to serve one that requires my life taking others just so I could go to heaven.

Their archaic belief system is man oriented and women aren't considered worthy of much of anything. Sharia Law is totally hosed, should Islam attain their goal of having Sharia law included in the laws of the U.S. things will change and I'm sure none of you will like the change, no matter how open minded you feel you are.

As I've stated before, Islam is not a religion but a political machine that wants to dominate the world under their laws. Believe their way or die, if you refuse to convert you are an infidel. Look up what they feel infidels are worthy of.

Earthling
08-26-2010, 07:28 PM
, should Islam attain their goal of having Sharia law included in the laws of the U.S. things will change and I'm sure none of you will like the change, no matter how open minded you feel you are.


There is no way in hell that would happen. IMO

Oucho Cinco
08-26-2010, 07:33 PM
There is no way in hell that would happen. IMO

In 2002 I heard about the plan of Islam to assimilate the U.S. from the inside out. Within the past 6 months I saw that very same story on the back page of the Kansas City Star.

Currently we have some "devout muslims" in high places in our Government. The process has started. Even our president sidesteps Christianity and talks of things that never were and expounds on what the "Holy Quran/Koran" says.

America, we have a problem and if it's not addressed our kids or grand kids will be in a bad way.

orange
08-26-2010, 08:05 PM
Currently we have some "devout muslims" in high places in our Government. The process has started. Even our president sidesteps Christianity and talks of things that never were and expounds on what the "Holy Quran/Koran" says.


You're really beyond ridiculous. But speaking of "sidestepping" - it's clear you're never going to answer my question above. Maybe you'll be honest enough to answer this one:


For even after the passage of 2,000 years, we can still picture the moment in our mind's eye. The young man from Nazareth marched through Jerusalem; object of scorn and derision and abuse and torture by an empire. The agony of crucifixion amid the cries of thieves. The discovery, just three days later, that would forever alter our world -- that the Son of Man was not to be found in His tomb and that Jesus Christ had risen.

We are awed by the grace He showed even to those who would have killed Him. We are thankful for the sacrifice He gave for the sins of humanity. And we glory in the promise of redemption in the resurrection.

And such a promise is one of life's great blessings, because, as I am continually learning, we are, each of us, imperfect. Each of us errs -- by accident or by design. Each of us falls short of how we ought to live. And selfishness and pride are vices that afflict us all.

It's not easy to purge these afflictions, to achieve redemption. But as Christians, we believe that redemption can be delivered -- by faith in Jesus Christ. And the possibility of redemption can make straight the crookedness of a character; make whole the incompleteness of a soul. Redemption makes life, however fleeting here on Earth, resound with eternal hope.

Who said that?

ForeverChiefs58
08-26-2010, 08:11 PM
You're really beyond ridiculous. But speaking of "sidestepping" - it's clear you're never going to answer my question above. Maybe you'll be honest enough to answer this one:


For even after the passage of 2,000 years, we can still picture the moment in our mind's eye. The young man from Nazareth marched through Jerusalem; object of scorn and derision and abuse and torture by an empire. The agony of crucifixion amid the cries of thieves. The discovery, just three days later, that would forever alter our world -- that the Son of Man was not to be found in His tomb and that Jesus Christ had risen.

We are awed by the grace He showed even to those who would have killed Him. We are thankful for the sacrifice He gave for the sins of humanity. And we glory in the promise of redemption in the resurrection.

And such a promise is one of life's great blessings, because, as I am continually learning, we are, each of us, imperfect. Each of us errs -- by accident or by design. Each of us falls short of how we ought to live. And selfishness and pride are vices that afflict us all.

It's not easy to purge these afflictions, to achieve redemption. But as Christians, we believe that redemption can be delivered -- by faith in Jesus Christ. And the possibility of redemption can make straight the crookedness of a character; make whole the incompleteness of a soul. Redemption makes life, however fleeting here on Earth, resound with eternal hope.

Who said that?


A pretty good speach writer. Every pres has to have good speach writers.

ForeverChiefs58
08-26-2010, 08:13 PM
http://www.antisemitism.org.il/upload/images/42419_l.jpg

I guess these guys didn't get the memo.

replace those three with members of the KKK, Phelps, Hamas, Hezbullshitta or any other hate organization.

orange
08-26-2010, 08:27 PM
replace those three with members of the KKK, Phelps, Hamas, Hezbullshitta or any other hate organization.

The point being that Christians have for 2000 years used Matthew 27:25 as justification for anti-Semitism. That's why when Jews hear a Christian preacher say, "The Jews killed Jesus," they know it's time to bar the door.

p.s. I think that pic is Phelps' crew, as a matter of fact. Not sure, though. I just glanced at the text for a moment.

|Zach|
08-26-2010, 08:39 PM
I wouldn't be associated with a church who would do this...you would want an organization you are linked with be above this kind of thing.

But if they are not breaking any laws...oh well...

The Mad Crapper
08-26-2010, 08:46 PM
They sound like a bunch of Fred Phelps style dumbasses.

Why don't you just pull Fred's pants down and blow him and get it over with already?

ForeverChiefs58
08-26-2010, 08:57 PM
I wouldn't be associated with a church who would do this...you would want an organization you are linked with be above this kind of thing.

But if they are not breaking any laws...oh well...

I would hope most would want to just pray for the other party involved.

The Mad Crapper
08-26-2010, 09:00 PM
I wouldn't be associated with a church who would do this...you would want an organization you are linked with be above this kind of thing.

Yeah but you'll vote for a POS who gave $20 grand to Rev Wright in 2007.

patteeu
08-26-2010, 09:20 PM
After the mosque threads, you'd think there'd be more of the self-envisioned first amendment stalwarts in here defending this Church's right to burn whatever they want to burn, no matter how offensive, as long as they own what they burn and do it on their own property and saying that there's nothing that can be done except to be tolerant of it. :shrug:

orange
08-26-2010, 09:27 PM
Are there politicians trying to stop this? I must have missed that.

Maybe you can link me to Sarah's or Rick's tweet.

patteeu
08-26-2010, 11:47 PM
Are there politicians trying to stop this? I must have missed that.

Maybe you can link me to Sarah's or Rick's tweet.

What does that have to do with anything?

|Zach|
08-27-2010, 01:20 AM
Yeah but you'll vote for a POS who gave $20 grand to Rev Wright in 2007.

And you will vote for...

Umm, not really sure who you would vote for or that you have an identity independent of not liking President Obama.

orange
08-27-2010, 01:37 AM
What does that have to do with anything?

...

... first amendment stalwarts in here defending this Church's right to burn whatever they want to burn ...

Defend their right against what? As I said, is anyone waging a campaign to stop them?

The Mad Crapper
08-27-2010, 06:17 AM
Umm, not really sure

That's part and parcel of what being a moonbat is all about.

patteeu
08-27-2010, 07:03 AM
...



Defend their right against what? As I said, is anyone waging a campaign to stop them?

You act as if the criticisms of mosque-critics in the mosque threads were all directed at the tiny minority of people calling for government to shut the project down. That wasn't even close to the case. Instead, the mosque-critics were mostly just people condemning the project for it's offensiveness. Many CP liberals (Dane comes prominently to mind; I don't remember whether you were one or not) repeatedly lectured that it was the developers' right to build and any criticism was unacceptable intolerance.

Now as *I* said, where have all the mosque-defenders who considered condemnation to be unacceptable intolerance gone?

Edit: Oh, and btw, as someone else said earlier in the thread, the Gainesville fire department has denied the church a burn permit (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/28/dove-world-outreach-cente_n_662450.html) for this event which makes this a case of greater government intrusion into the first amendment than the mosque situation. Where, oh, where did our first amendment liberals go?

BucEyedPea
08-27-2010, 08:36 AM
A pretty good speach writer. Every pres has to have good speach writers.

Since you did it twice, it can't be a typo. But it's "speech."

Oucho Cinco
08-27-2010, 08:39 AM
Since you did it twice, it can't be a typo. But it's "speech."

I thought luv was the spelling and grammar nazi?

orange
08-27-2010, 10:04 AM
denied the church a burn permit (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/28/dove-world-outreach-cente_n_662450.html)

Under the fire ordinances the City Commission adopted last year, bonfires aren’t allowed without a permit, Hayes said.

Under Section 10-63, “Open burning and outdoor burning are prohibited in the City of Gainesville unless otherwise specifically permitted as provided by this article.“

Sec. 10-63. - General prohibition on outdoor burning and open burning.

Open burning and outdoor burning are prohibited in the City of Gainesville unless otherwise specifically permitted as provided by this article.

(a) Open burning of refuse. Open burning of the following materials is prohibited.

(1) Construction and demolition waste.

(2) Hazardous substances including but not limited to batteries, household chemicals, pesticides, used oil, gasoline, paints, varnishes, and solvents.

(3) Furniture and appliances.

(4) Tires.

(5) Any plastic materials including but not limited to nylon, PVC, ABS, polystyrene or urethane foam, and synthetic fabrics, plastic films and plastic containers.

(6) Newspaper.

(7) Corrugated cardboard, container board, office paper.

(8) Treated or painted wood including but not limited to plywood, composite wood products or other wood products that are painted, varnished or treated with preservatives.

The section goes on to prohibit burning newspaper, corrugated cardboard, container board or office paper, which are akin to books, Prince said.

Hayes said the denial had nothing to do with the church’s intent.

“It wouldn’t matter what the book is they’re burning,” he said.


But then, you knew that. Just like you knew Cordoba House has already jumped through all the regulatory hoops. And just like you knew the FLA Church is going ahead anyway - maybe they'll use ovens instead of open bonfires; that would be so appropriate.

Tell me again where are the politicians campaigning against this? Demanding that the Church open its books or move? The lawsuits seeking to overturn their building permits?

And by the way, this burning is intended quite openly to be a provocation. They make no bones about it. Pamela Geller or Andrew Breitbart aren't needed to come in and distort their message or background.

Your preposterous equating of the two events is, well, preposterous.

BucEyedPea
08-27-2010, 10:25 AM
I thought luv was the spelling and grammar nazi?

Meanwhile, you're the behavior nazi. Takes one to know one doesn't it?

Oucho Cinco
08-27-2010, 10:57 AM
Meanwhile, you're the behavior nazi. Takes one to know one doesn't it?

Behavior nazi? Care to explain that one?

BucEyedPea
08-27-2010, 11:36 AM
nope

Oucho Cinco
08-27-2010, 11:46 AM
nope

I don't point out when everyone misbehaves, I do misbehave.

I think you have your point of view skewed.

patteeu
08-27-2010, 12:25 PM
I thought luv was the spelling and grammar nazi?

She didn't do it in a nasty way and she even indicates that she would have ignored it if he hadn't repeated the misspelling. I don't think any offense should be taken. Lots of smart people have trouble spelling certain words and repeatedly misspelling a word can make you look less intelligent than you really are. BEP did ForeverChiefs58 a favor by letting him know.

patteeu
08-27-2010, 12:37 PM
Under the fire ordinances the City Commission adopted last year, bonfires aren’t allowed without a permit, Hayes said.

Under Section 10-63, “Open burning and outdoor burning are prohibited in the City of Gainesville unless otherwise specifically permitted as provided by this article.“

Sec. 10-63. - General prohibition on outdoor burning and open burning.

Open burning and outdoor burning are prohibited in the City of Gainesville unless otherwise specifically permitted as provided by this article.

(a) Open burning of refuse. Open burning of the following materials is prohibited.

(1) Construction and demolition waste.

(2) Hazardous substances including but not limited to batteries, household chemicals, pesticides, used oil, gasoline, paints, varnishes, and solvents.

(3) Furniture and appliances.

(4) Tires.

(5) Any plastic materials including but not limited to nylon, PVC, ABS, polystyrene or urethane foam, and synthetic fabrics, plastic films and plastic containers.

(6) Newspaper.

(7) Corrugated cardboard, container board, office paper.

(8) Treated or painted wood including but not limited to plywood, composite wood products or other wood products that are painted, varnished or treated with preservatives.

The section goes on to prohibit burning newspaper, corrugated cardboard, container board or office paper, which are akin to books, Prince said.

Hayes said the denial had nothing to do with the church’s intent.

“It wouldn’t matter what the book is they’re burning,” he said.


But then, you knew that. Just like you knew Cordoba House has already jumped through all the regulatory hoops. And just like you knew the FLA Church is going ahead anyway - maybe they'll use ovens instead of open bonfires; that would be so appropriate.

Tell me again where are the politicians campaigning against this? Demanding that the Church open its books or move? The lawsuits seeking to overturn their building permits?

And by the way, this burning is intended quite openly to be a provocation. They make no bones about it. Pamela Geller or Andrew Breitbart aren't needed to come in and distort their message or background.

Your preposterous equating of the two events is, well, preposterous.

Don't try to move the goalposts, orange. You asked for someone waging a campaign to stop them and I gave you a governmental board that's already made a decision to do so. But I agree that the two aren't equal situations since that's more restrictive than any governmental body has been toward the ground zero mosque.

The fact that I've satisfied your challenge was beside the point though, as I've already explained.

It's not really very surprising that many of the ChiefsPlanet supporters of the mosque project were making disingenuous arguments all along as evidenced by their lack of concern for the first amendment implications in this case.

orange
08-27-2010, 02:24 PM
Don't try to move the goalposts, orange.

LOL

I haven't moved the goalposts at all. In fact, I've repeated my question three times - and you still refuse to answer it:

Are there politicians trying to stop this? I must have missed that.

Maybe you can link me to Sarah's or Rick's tweet.


Defend their right against what? As I said, is anyone waging a campaign to stop them?

Tell me again where are the politicians campaigning against this? Demanding that the Church open its books or move? The lawsuits seeking to overturn their building permits?


1... 2... 3... Yep. Three.

It's not really very surprising that many of the ChiefsPlanet supporters of the mosque project were making disingenuous arguments all along as evidenced by their lack of concern for the first amendment implications in this case.

What EXACTLY were these "disingenuous arguments" being put forward? What exactly were the "many of the ChiefsPlanet supporters of the mosque project" objecting to? If not the political campaign against it, what? How about a single, simple quote for guidance?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DZH2cmCoois/SRrpT-xsKnI/AAAAAAAAGQ4/AprljMiuO6o/s400/Straw_Man.jpg

orange
08-27-2010, 02:29 PM
By the way...

What EXACTLY were these "disingenuous arguments" being put forward? What exactly were the "many of the ChiefsPlanet supporters of the mosque project" objecting to? If not the political campaign against it, what? How about a single, simple quote for guidance?

4... Yep. Four.


Are you and Donger related? - besides spiritually?

orange
08-27-2010, 02:40 PM
Maybe you can link me to Sarah's or Rick's tweet.

Meanwhile, back to this particular point.

Where IS Sarah's tweet, anyway? Not that I expect anything from Lazio, but these national politicians who've weighed in against the "Ground Zero" "Mosque" - shouldn't they see this as a golden opportunity to make a point that they're not anti-Islam? What's holding them back?

Maybe they know their constituents too well. Or perhaps the opposite - they're waiting for their polling.

Oucho Cinco
08-27-2010, 07:57 PM
Meanwhile, back to this particular point.

Where IS Sarah's tweet, anyway? Not that I expect anything from Lazio, but these national politicians who've weighed in against the "Ground Zero" "Mosque" - shouldn't they see this as a golden opportunity to make a point that they're not anti-Islam? What's holding them back?

Maybe they know their constituents too well. Or perhaps the opposite - they're waiting for their polling.

If you can't find Sarah's tweet then you probably aren't smart enough to search for anything else. Try searching for "Sarah+Palin", maybe something will pop up for you.

patteeu
08-28-2010, 12:47 PM
LOL

I haven't moved the goalposts at all. In fact, I've repeated my question three times - and you still refuse to answer it:

Are there politicians trying to stop this? I must have missed that.

Maybe you can link me to Sarah's or Rick's tweet.

Defend their right against what? As I said, is anyone waging a campaign to stop them?


Tell me again where are the politicians campaigning against this? Demanding that the Church open its books or move? The lawsuits seeking to overturn their building permits?


1... 2... 3... Yep. Three.

Nope. In the first one, you asked if any politicians are trying to stop this. I gave you the Gainesville city government which, by denying a permit, is doing more than Sarah or Rick have done in the Mosque case.

In the third one, for the first time, you're looking for politicians who are demanding open books or seeking to overturn building permits (as if that even makes sense in this context). That's where you were moving goalposts. I've already scored the touchdown on the original field.

None of this was relevant to my original comment though so let's put an end to the sidetrack.

patteeu
08-28-2010, 12:49 PM
Meanwhile, back to this particular point.

Where IS Sarah's tweet, anyway? Not that I expect anything from Lazio, but these national politicians who've weighed in against the "Ground Zero" "Mosque" - shouldn't they see this as a golden opportunity to make a point that they're not anti-Islam? What's holding them back?

Maybe they know their constituents too well. Or perhaps the opposite - they're waiting for their polling.

Why would she tweet about this? Why should we even think that she's aware of it?

Velvet_Jones
08-28-2010, 12:58 PM
I had a friend in college named Julie. She was Jewish. I used to send her Christmas cards and always put "To my dearest friend Jewly" on the from of the card. She thought it was funny the first couple of times.

Pioli Zombie
08-28-2010, 01:00 PM
"I'm Pastor Terry and I want to welcome everyone to Dove Outreach. If you call Dove your home its awfully great to see you again. If you're new me and my lovely bride would like to meet you out in the foyer after the service to say hello and to welcome you here. If you could do us a favor and if you see this tear out on your program if you could just fill that out just to let us know you were here and if you could just drop that off in the offering bucket as it goes around.
Ok. We have a few announcements. The first one is we will have Real Men on monday! Alright! So come on out for some fellowship and some bbq and we'll have a great time.
The second thing is that on friday night, and I know you are all looking forward to this..we are having our first burn a Quran night. Amen? That's right we are going to take those Qurans and burn them because Islam is of the devil. And then we are going to ride into town and we as a corporate body are going to do a #6 on some towelheads in the name of outreach. What's a #6 you might ask? Well that's when we go riding into town, a whoppin and a whoopin every livin Muslim thing we see"
"What about the women,Pastor?"
"Oh were gonna rape the shit out of them at the #6 dance later!!"

Dallas Chief
08-28-2010, 02:16 PM
Complicit indicates some possibly of stopping the act. It's unrealistic to have expected people to stop Pilate's execution of Jesus.

You have a strong Catholic bent there youngster. I understand though, it's kind of difficult to see it any other way when you have to repeat it every single Sunday... or everyday if you went to a Catholic school.

orange
08-28-2010, 03:48 PM
Why would she tweet about this? Why should we even think that she's aware of it?

Why should we even think that she's aware of ANYTHING? ROFL

p.s. No one's tried to stop it. They didn't get a BONFIRE PERMIT. They'll do it a different way. You're treading into Mad Cinco territory.

None of this was relevant to my original comment though so let's put an end to the sidetrack.

Yes, they were. But all that aside, THIS certainly was DIRECTLY relevant to your original comment - in fact I quoted from your original comment:


What EXACTLY were these "disingenuous arguments" being put forward? What exactly were the "many of the ChiefsPlanet supporters of the mosque project" objecting to? If not the political campaign against it, what? How about a single, simple quote for guidance?

... and you have chosen to continue to ignore it.

I, for example, can point you to a post where an opponent DIRECTLY states that the government should forbid the "Ground Zero" "Mosque," 1st Amendment be damned.

What are the supporters' actual objections?

BucEyedPea
08-28-2010, 03:50 PM
I had a friend in college named Julie. She was Jewish. I used to send her Christmas cards and always put "To my dearest friend Jewly" on the from of the card. She thought it was funny the first couple of times.

You're not allowed to say you have friends or know people in this forum for anecdotal stories. D112 says so.

orange
08-28-2010, 03:59 PM
I had a friend in college named Julie. She was Jewish. I used to send her Christmas cards and always put "To my dearest friend Jewly" on the from of the card. She thought it was funny the first couple of times.

We're all waiting...

http://www.achievemax.com/blogimages/paul-harvey1.jpg

patteeu
08-28-2010, 10:59 PM
p.s. No one's tried to stop it. They didn't get a BONFIRE PERMIT.

:spock: That's about as clear a case of cognitive dissonance as I've every run into. The act of denying a bonfire permit = trying to stop it.

... and you have chosen to continue to ignore it.

I, for example, can point you to a post where an opponent DIRECTLY states that the government should forbid the "Ground Zero" "Mosque," 1st Amendment be damned.

What are the supporters' actual objections?

I'm ignoring it because I don't owe you an answer and I don't feel like going through a nearly 1000 post thread to make a case that you should already be aware of since you were in that thread just like I was. You know as well as I do that there was a faction of people who believed that the fact that they own the land should end the discussion and that since they do own the land, any pressure to stop the mosque was unduly intolerant.

Oucho Cinco
08-29-2010, 07:34 AM
I had a friend in college named Julie. She was Jewish. I used to send her Christmas cards and always put "To my dearest friend Jewly" on the from of the card. She thought it was funny the first couple of times.

We're all waiting...



We all know how hard it is for to conceive that people have friends. Too bad for you that you don't have any.

Dave Lane
08-29-2010, 07:40 AM
Regardless of where you fall on your beliefs about Islam, isn't this just a disgusting display for any Christian church anywhere? I mean, is this what Christians really want people to think about their faith? That's the thing for me, I hate it when people take any faith and do something disgusting like this.

Using the shoe on the other foot rule if a Muslim church here in the US had a burn the bible day people would lose their motherfuckings minds.

Oucho Cinco
08-29-2010, 07:42 AM
Using the shoe on the other foot rule if a Muslim church here in the US had a burn the bible day people would lose their mother****ings minds.

When did the bible cause radical Christians to fly airliners into Islamic communities and kill 3000 innocent people?

Frankie
08-29-2010, 05:26 PM
When did the bible cause radical Christians to fly airliners into Islamic communities and kill 3000 innocent people?

Radicals of all religions have done bloody things throughout history. You are just being conveniently selective. But then.....

BucEyedPea
08-29-2010, 05:28 PM
Using the shoe on the other foot rule if a Muslim church here in the US had a burn the bible day people would lose their mother****ings minds.

You know, for once, I agree with you on something.

Brock
08-29-2010, 05:33 PM
Radicals of all religions have done bloody things throughout history. You are just being conveniently selective. But then.....

Not that I agree with him, but looking at things that have happened in the past decade vs. the past millennium is likely to give you more relevant information.

Oucho Cinco
08-29-2010, 07:16 PM
I just can't keep my damn mouth shut. I know I suck but I just can't help it, I hate America

I have to say that we agree on something now.

Frankie
08-29-2010, 07:29 PM
I have to say that we agree on something now.

Wow. Very creative Tom. Totally rewriting my post and responding to it too. I know you talk with yourself all the time, but you had to demonstrate it here too. You are such a loser.

Oucho Cinco
08-29-2010, 07:43 PM
I just can't keep my damn mouth shut. I know I suck but I just can't help it, I hate America

I suppose you've replied by now, you just can't help yourself. The greatest thing is that you are no longer visible. ROFL

All of your venom is wasted.

Frankie
08-29-2010, 07:49 PM
I suppose you've replied by now, you just can't help yourself. The greatest thing is that you are no longer visible. ROFL

All of your venom is wasted.

Oh stop pretending Tom. Or at least limit that to doing it with your invisible friend. You did the rewrite of my post after you "loaded software that will eliminate anything with your (my) login associated with it." (Quoting directly from your email.) Who are you trying to fool? Do you even have the smallest inclination how pathetic you are?:shake:

Oucho Cinco
08-29-2010, 08:28 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post count is up again. You must really be lonely. ROFL

Frankie
08-29-2010, 08:40 PM
Post count is up again. You must really be lonely. ROFL

Well you never are. With your invisible friend and all the voices in your head.

patteeu
08-29-2010, 08:52 PM
STFU Tom. You've lost it again and you've become an annoyance to everyone here including those who don't just react to your name or your politics. Reinvent yourself again and give it another try. You do fine, IMO, before the meltdowns. After the meltdowns, you even make Frankie look smart.