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View Full Version : U.S. Issues Lead bullets to be banned???


petegz28
08-27-2010, 11:43 AM
http://weeklystandard.com/blogs/epa-reviewing-request-ban-led-bullets

Environmental Protection Agency Reviewing Petition to Ban Lead Bullets

healthpellets
08-27-2010, 11:46 AM
Ya saw that. They have to make a decision by nov 1st. Day before the election.

HonestChieffan
08-27-2010, 11:47 AM
Buy more.

Oucho Cinco
08-27-2010, 11:48 AM
Utah Shooting Sports Council Information Alert 8/26/10



Utah Shooting Sports Council Information Alert for all members and supporters. 8/26/10 For latest information always check the USSC website http://UtahShootingSports.com (http://utahshootingsports.com/)

PLEASE FORWARD THIS ALERT TO EVERYONE INTERESTED IN UTAH FIREARMS ISSUES.
--- Big rally this weekend!
--- USSC Gets Davis County Shooting Ban Repealed!
--- John M. Browning Day activities- start planning now!
--- Obama's EPA considering ban on ALL lead ammunition!
--- USSC Volunteer help needed
--- Upcoming Shooting Related Events
--- Future gun show dates
--- USSC Website

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BIG RALLY THIS WEEKEND!

Some of our pro-gun friends in the Legislature have asked for a large turnout from the gun rights supporters at the "Take Back Utah" rally this Saturday, August 28th. They support us, and the main participants in this rally are our allies for hunting rights, access to public lands and shooting ranges, etc. The rally starts from Liberty Park and goes to the Capitol. Showing up is the most important thing you can do. Staging begins at Liberty Park on the 28th at 6:00 AM. The parade is from 10:00 to 12:00 with the rally with speaker at the Capitol from 12:30 to 1:30.

Drive your trucks, ATV's, motorcycles, bicycles, or horses, or just walk in the parade. Take banners or flags or whatever. Bring the family and kids! Give them a chance to be in a parade, and to help fight for freedom and gun rights!

Last year over 3,000 people participated, both individuals and members of several freedom minded groups. This year's goal is 10,000. All 3 key TV stations will cover it. At Your Leisure host Chad Booth will cover it as well and it will get broadcast on his show.

Full details at the Take Back Utah website www.takebackutah.org (http://www.takebackutah.org/)


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USSC GETS DAVIS COUNTY SHOOTING BAN REPEALED!

Utah Shooting Sports Council immediately contacted the Davis County Commissioners after they passed a ban on discharging firearms this week . USSC pointed out that their action violated Utah's "Pre-emption" law which only allows the state to make most gun laws. We have been informed that this new law will be quickly repealed. Special thanks to Mitch Vilos, prominent firearms law specialist (http://firearmslaw.com/) for his help on this.

The motivation for the shooting ban seems to have come from the U.S. Forest Service and newly developed homeowners who claim that bullet hit their houses, either from people stupidly firing towards developed areas from the mountain side, or from near established shooting ranges. Everyone needs to be aware of what is behind their target, and remember that they are responsible for any damage caused by their shooting activities. Safety first!


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JOHN M. BROWNING DAY ACTIVITIES- START PLANNING NOW

January 24, 2011 is officially John M. Browning day ("JMB day") in Utah, honoring this firearms genius, one of the world's greatest gun inventors, and one of Utah's most noted citizens.

Of course, 2011 marks the 100th anniversary of the adoption of the Model 1911 .45 "automatic" pistol. (Quick- a show of hands how many of you own one of these? Hmmm, a huge number!)

While January 24th is the official ceremonial day for honoring Browning, we hope that gun enthusiasts will schedule Browning themed events throughout the year.

We already know that Ogden's Union Station Museum and the Fort Douglas Museum have special exhibits planned. The Utah Gun Collectors will probably have a special competition for Browning theme displays at their gun show in January.

USSC would like to publicize all other Browning related events for 2011, both in our alerts and on our website. Send your info to volunteer@utahshootingsports.<wbr>com (volunteer@utahshootingsports.com).

Will your club sponsor something like a match where only Browning invented guns can be used? That could apply to just about any shooting sport, from Cowboy Action, to bullseye pistol, to trap or skeet, action pistol shooting, etc. Even the Class 3 Machine gun shooters can have a Browning only match. If not as your main event, then how about adding a special one for JMB day? Obviously the matches may be more fun (if outdoors) later in the year, but let's have a list of them available to release by January 24th!

If you have a shop, how about a special sales event on January 24th (or other dates) in honor of Browning?

Maybe someone can come up with a Browning trivia quiz or crossword puzzle we can distribute to the media.

We have already confirmed that the NRA would consider publishing a story on JMB Day events in Utah in the American Rifleman magazine. They will be doing a number of 1911 themed articles throughout the year. Let's get some writers/photographers busy now working on a story!

How about some of our collectors or historians coming up with a full list of John M. Browning designed guns. You can do it for a single manufacturer- one person work on Colt, one on Winchester, one for Remington and someone else for FN if you want to. Of course his designs were also made by other U.S. makers (Browning Brothers in Ogden, for example) including Savage, I.B.M. Corporation, etc. That does not even begin to touch on the Italian, Japanese or Brazilian made copies!

Can someone come up with links to all of Browning's firearms patents that we can post on line?

Send all info or questions to volunteer@utahshootingsports.<wbr>com (volunteer@utahshootingsports.com) and we will release a list of everything by January 24th, 2011. We need all inputs by December 31st.


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OBAMA's EPA CONSIDERING BAN ON ALL LEAD AMMUNITION!

Read the full National Shooting Sports Foundation alert at
http://www.nssfblog.com/epa-<wbr>considering-ban-on-<wbr>traditional-ammunition-take-<wbr>action-now/ (http://www.nssfblog.com/epa-considering-ban-on-traditional-ammunition-take-action-now/)

"...The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ... is now considering a petition by the Center for Biological Diversity- a leading anti-hunting organization - to ban all traditional ammunition under the Toxic Substance Control Act of 1976, a law in which Congress expressly exempted ammunition. If the EPA approves the petition, the result will be a total ban on all ammunition containing lead-core components, including hunting and target-shooting rounds. The EPA must decide to accept or reject this petition by November 1, 2010"

[Although Congress exempted "ammunition" from EPA regulation, their scheme is to argue that they are regulating "components" such as bullets, shot or primers for which non-lead substitutes may exist.]

"The EPA has published the petition and relevant supplemental information as Docket ID: EPA-HQ-OPPT-2010-0681. If you would like to read the original petition and see the contents of this docket folder, please click http://www.regulations.gov/<wbr>search/Regs/home.html#<wbr>docketDetail?R=EPA-HQ-OPPT-<wbr>2010-0681 (http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#docketDetail?R=EPA-HQ-OPPT-2010-0681)
In order to go directly to the 'submit a comment' page for this docket number, please click http://www.regulations.gov/<wbr>search/Regs/home.html#<wbr>submitComment?R=<wbr>0900006480b3974b (http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480b3974b)

If you oppose this potential meddling with ammunition, click on the contact link above. Ignore the blocks on the left side (organization, etc) and just enter your comments in the big block on the right and submit. They basically add up the number of comments for or against a proposal, so comment early and often, just like in Chicago.


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USSC VOLUNTEER HELP NEEDED

The great people who volunteer to work the gun shows for USSC are directly responsible for our success in recruiting members and growing the USSC email list. That translates directly into our success getting the Legislature to pass good laws, and stopping anti- gun schemes.
USSC also needs people to help in other areas. We are looking for someone with website skills, especially the ability to work with graphics to make our site (http:UtahShootingSports.com) a much more attractive and user friendly site. This is an unpaid volunteer job. We have a couple other sample sites with lots of good ideas we would like to copy, so if you know how to do this geek magic stuff, send an email to volunteer@UtahShootingsports.<wbr>com


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UPCOMING SHOOTING RELATED EVENTS

UDPL Super Shoot August 28th-
There are over 100 shooters already registered for the Utah Defensive Pistol League "Super Shoot" to be held this Saturday, August 28th. Registration starts at 7:00. Full details at http://www.udpl.net/results/<wbr>2010/SuperShoot-Details-2010.<wbr>pdf (http://www.udpl.net/results/2010/SuperShoot-Details-2010.pdf)

Browning Museum Gun Club meeting Tuesday September 14th
At the Union Station Museum on 25th Street in Ogden at 9:00 AM sharp. Free, open to the public and spouses are welcome for this fun one hour event the second Tuesday of every month.

Southern Utah Pistol & Revolver Advanced Concealed Carry Course September 25th-
SUPR is hosting an "Advanced Concealed Carry Course" on September 25th at their range near St. George. Full details at http://www.southernutahpistol.<wbr>com/sep-25-advanced-concealed-<wbr>carry-course-805 (http://www.southernutahpistol.com/sep-25-advanced-concealed-carry-course-805)

2010 Western CMP Games and Creedmoor Cup Matches in Phoenix October 16-24 in Phoenix-
The Western CMP Games and Creedmoor Cup Match combine to offer an unprecedented nine-day series of clinics, recreation-oriented "as-issued" military rifle matches and national-class service and match rifle competitions with the best highpower rifle shooters in the country. The Western Clinics and Matches will take place 16-24 October at the Ben Avery Shooting Facility, Phoenix, AZ. The Official Program and on-line registration will be posted at http://www.odcmp.com/<wbr>competitions/westerngames.htm (http://www.odcmp.com/competitions/westerngames.htm) as soon as it is available.

Southern Utah Hunting Club-
just outside cedar city with pheasant and chucker hunting on 568 acres for members and non members, guides and hunting dogs included with membership. More details at www.southernutahhuntingclub.<wbr>com (http://www.southernutahhuntingclub.com/)


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FUTURE GUN SHOW DATES

September 18-19 at the Dixie Center in St. George- Crossroads of the West http://www.crossroadsgunshows.<wbr>com- (http://www.crossroadsgunshows.com-/)
September 25-26- Sandy- South Towne Expo Center- Crossroads of the West http://www.crossroadsgunshows.<wbr>com (http://www.crossroadsgunshows.com/)
October 9-10 the Utah Gun Collectors Association will be at the Weber County fairgrounds in Ogden. Info and table reservations at http://UGCA.org (http://ugca.org/)


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USSC WEBSITE-
http://UtahShootingSports.com (http://utahshootingsports.com/) includes frequent updates of gun related news stories from Utah and around the nation. There are daily updates on gun related bills during the Legislative Session. You can sign up for our Alerts, or remove your name, or change your email address (add the new one and delete the old one).

Thanks for your time!

HonestChieffan
08-27-2010, 11:50 AM
Picked up a new Glock 19 this week and will continue to buy ammo when opportunities open up

Radar Chief
08-27-2010, 12:01 PM
This has been in the works for a while.
Lead has been banned from duck and goose, wetland, hunting since the early 80s.

alpha_omega
08-27-2010, 12:04 PM
Wow, double the cost?

Oucho Cinco
08-27-2010, 12:16 PM
This has been in the works for a while.
Lead has been banned from duck and goose, wetland, hunting since the early 80s.

My old boss was a member of DU. He carried both lead shot and steel shot. Always got his limit - with lead. Come to think of it my old boss was a scumbag so I don't know why I would be surprised he would be a scofflaw.

oldandslow
08-27-2010, 01:47 PM
Cost more, but I always hunt with steel...killed many a pheasant with them...

there really is a "lead in the food chain" issue here.

2bikemike
08-27-2010, 04:51 PM
I am not a hunter, But I shoot a lot. I will usually blow through a couple hundred rounds a week. I shoot several diciplines. The end of lead would seriously hamper my shooting.

Bwana
08-27-2010, 09:52 PM
I am not a hunter, But I shoot a lot. I will usually blow through a couple hundred rounds a week. I shoot several diciplines. The end of lead would seriously hamper my shooting.

Which is exactly what they are looking for Mike. If they can't figure out how to ban guns, they are going to screw with ammo. This is square one, watch and see.

2bikemike
08-27-2010, 10:22 PM
Which is exactly what they are looking for Mike. If they can't figure out how to ban guns, they are going to screw with ammo. This is square one, watch and see.

Yep the bastards in Sacramento are working hard at keeping ammo out of the hands of all shooting enthusiasts.

2bikemike
08-28-2010, 10:30 AM
I guess they won't get that lead ban this time around.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/27/gun-owners-dodge-the-bullet-ban/

notorious
08-28-2010, 12:33 PM
I guess they won't get that lead ban this time around.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/27/gun-owners-dodge-the-bullet-ban/

Thank God.


Fuck Them.

go bowe
08-28-2010, 08:55 PM
Which is exactly what they are looking for Mike. If they can't figure out how to ban guns, they are going to screw with ammo. This is square one, watch and see.i was gonna say that i doubt that the anti-gun forces would even get to square one, but a later post indicates that the epa punted that idea out the door...

so, i'll say good for the epa...

this time they got it right...

Bwana
08-28-2010, 11:17 PM
i was gonna say that i doubt that the anti-gun forces would even get to square one, but a later post indicates that the epa punted that idea out the door...

so, i'll say good for the epa...

this time they got it right...

Indeed

DaneMcCloud
08-28-2010, 11:30 PM
Indeed

I have no fucking clue because I've never shot a gun (even though my Dad's a hunter and I FULLY support gun rights and am against ANY ban):

What's the different between lead and an alternative? Is it the way the bullet flies and kills?

I used to hear about hollow-point bullets on the news, but fortunately, ALL of that South Central shit has been fairly subdued for the 17 years I've lived out here.

Thanks in advance and have a great weekend!

Hog Farmer
08-29-2010, 03:17 AM
Lead is the preferred metal of choice for bullets because even if you just cause a flesh wound your victim will die from the lead poisoning within a year.

Baby Lee
08-29-2010, 07:09 AM
I have no fucking clue because I've never shot a gun (even though my Dad's a hunter and I FULLY support gun rights and am against ANY ban):

What's the different between lead and an alternative? Is it the way the bullet flies and kills?

I used to hear about hollow-point bullets on the news, but fortunately, ALL of that South Central shit has been fairly subdued for the 17 years I've lived out here.

Thanks in advance and have a great weekend!

Lead is a cheap malleable substance with high density. The benefits of cheap should be obvious. The benefits of malleable feeds into cheap as it's easy to manufacture the payload. The benefit of density is it aids velocity, accuracy and whallop, much like it's easier to aim and inflict pain with a rock than it is a ping pong ball.

Lead meets a velocity wall then the propellant heats the lead sufficient to outgass the metal, resulting in it depositing lead traces in the barrel and 'gumming' it up over time. So they developed the copper jacketed payload.

boogblaster
08-29-2010, 07:15 AM
they are ending lead to protect themselves

Bwana
08-29-2010, 07:27 AM
I have no ****ing clue because I've never shot a gun (even though my Dad's a hunter and I FULLY support gun rights and am against ANY ban):

What's the different between lead and an alternative? Is it the way the bullet flies and kills?

I used to hear about hollow-point bullets on the news, but fortunately, ALL of that South Central shit has been fairly subdued for the 17 years I've lived out here.

Thanks in advance and have a great weekend!

Primarily weight, bullet expansion and lead is easier on bores. In addition to that, the alternatives to lead, are around twice the cost (or more.)

I shoot a lot of lead, but I use a hard cast, very "hot" rounds in my .500 Smith and Wesson in grizzly country. The cost of .500 ammo is ungodly, and the hard cast rounds are much worse, but those rounds will do some serious damage on impact. Lead would likely get the job done as well with that gun, but my my life is on the line, I want to try to find the nastiest round on the planet.

All said, the ban on lead shotgun rounds for waterfowl (In place for years) has it's pros and cons. Because of a "lighter shot," a lot more ducks and geese get shot, don't drop on the spot and fly off and die. Lead, because of the weight, was more of an "instant kill" round. The advantage is, ducks have a tendency to dive for a lot of their food and consume about anything from the bottom of a pond, or river. If they eat a bunch of lead, it's lights out time.

As far as rifle rounds, you may lose something once in a blue moon to something eating lead, but it's not very common. Most of the hype is just that, hype. A lot of the tree hugging groups are extremists and want EVERYTHING banned. I won't go into that, because there is no love lost on my feeling for these groups and this could turn into the longest post in the history of the Planet.

2bikemike
08-29-2010, 08:12 AM
Primarily weight, bullet expansion and lead is easier on bores. In addition to that, the alternatives to lead, are around twice the cost (or more.)

I shoot a lot of lead, but I use a hard cast, very "hot" rounds in my .500 Smith and Wesson in grizzly country. The cost of .500 ammo is ungodly, and the hard cast rounds are much worse, but those rounds will do some serious damage on impact. Lead would likely get the job done as well with that gun, but my my life is on the line, I want to try to find the nastiest round on the planet.

All said, the ban on lead shotgun rounds for waterfowl (In place for years) has it's pros and cons. Because of a "lighter shot," a lot more ducks and geese get shot, don't drop on the spot and fly off and die. Lead, because of the weight, was more of an "instant kill" round. The advantage is, ducks have a tendency to dive for a lot of their food and consume about anything from the bottom of a pond, or river. If they eat a bunch of lead, it's lights out time.

As far as rifle rounds, you may lose something once in a blue moon to something eating lead, but it's not very common. Most of the hype is just that, hype. A lot of the tree hugging groups are extremists and want EVERYTHING banned. I won't go into that, because there is no love lost on my feeling for these groups and this could turn into the longest post in the history of the Planet.

Man I can't even imagine what shooting a "very" hot round out of a SW 500 would be like. Of course if some big hungry ass grizzly was charging me I probably wouldn't be thinking about the recoil. :D

Bwana
08-29-2010, 09:32 AM
Man I can't even imagine what shooting a "very" hot round out of a SW 500 would be like. Of course if some big hungry ass grizzly was charging me I probably wouldn't be thinking about the recoil. :D

Bingo!

Here are the thumpers I'm talking about. They go for around $2 a pop, not exactly "plinking ammo," but they are bear abusing rounds. BigOlChiefsfan turned me onto doubletap ammo a few years ago. That guy is an expert on anything, guns, ammo, or fine drink. :thumb:

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_47&products_id=169

MichaelH
08-29-2010, 09:41 AM
Which is exactly what they are looking for Mike. If they can't figure out how to ban guns, they are going to screw with ammo. This is square one, watch and see.

I couldn't agree more Bwana.

Oucho Cinco
08-29-2010, 01:59 PM
Lead is the preferred metal of choice for bullets because even if you just cause a flesh wound your victim will die from the lead poisoning within a year.

Of course you are talking of untreated wounds???

KC native
08-29-2010, 03:52 PM
ROFL I was just waiting for this one to turn out this way. Liberals in government aren't going to touch guns. I was hoping for a little more Big Daddy style paranoia though. You guys have disappointed me.

KC native
08-29-2010, 03:53 PM
Of course you are talking of untreated wounds???

You are fucking retarded tom.

Oucho Cinco
08-29-2010, 07:45 PM
You are fucking retarded tom.

I'm pretty sure you are clueless. How many of the men wounded in WWII died after being shot but not being killed outright? How many of those from Vietnam? Desert Storm? Iraq? Afghanistan?

Support your belief or shut up.

KC native
08-29-2010, 07:49 PM
I'm pretty sure you are clueless. How many of the men wounded in WWII died after being shot but not being killed outright? How many of those from Vietnam? Desert Storm? Iraq? Afghanistan?

Support your belief or shut up.

:facepalm:

MichaelH
08-30-2010, 03:23 AM
I'm pretty sure you are clueless. How many of the men wounded in WWII died after being shot but not being killed outright? How many of those from Vietnam? Desert Storm? Iraq? Afghanistan?

Support your belief or shut up.

You ever hear of FMJ?

HonestChieffan
08-30-2010, 07:14 AM
Bingo!

Here are the thumpers I'm talking about. They go for around $2 a pop, not exactly "plinking ammo," but they are bear abusing rounds. BigOlChiefsfan turned me onto doubletap ammo a few years ago. That guy is an expert on anything, guns, ammo, or fine drink. :thumb:

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_47&products_id=169


Great link...thanks

Radar Chief
08-30-2010, 07:19 AM
I have no ****ing clue because I've never shot a gun (even though my Dad's a hunter and I FULLY support gun rights and am against ANY ban):

What's the different between lead and an alternative? Is it the way the bullet flies and kills?

I used to hear about hollow-point bullets on the news, but fortunately, ALL of that South Central shit has been fairly subdued for the 17 years I've lived out here.

Thanks in advance and have a great weekend!

Well, the guys have pretty well covered it.
Main advantages are cheap, heavy, cheap, soft and cheap.
Alternatives for rifles are mostly solid copper.
Copper is already used to jacket most lead bullets (FMJ, Full Metal Jacket) because lead is so soft it will tear leaving little chunks in the barrel. Copper is soft enough to form to the barrel making a tight seal, just like lead, but isnt so soft it will tear leaving chunks behind. Copper also helps the bullet maintain its shape in flight.
The hollow points (JHP, Jacketed Hollow Point) you mentioned are just what they sound like, the end of the bullet has been hollowed out. Reason for this is so it mushrooms or expands when it impacts the intended target making a bigger hole and slowing the bullet down so it transfers its energy into the intended target. FMJs will poke a hole but can often pass through the target so fast it doesnt have time to transfer that energy.
People will mostly use FMJs for target practice or when extreme long range shooting is needed and JHPs for hunting for the superior knock down power so you have fewer wounded animals running off to die somewhere that you wont find them to harvest your kill.