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Otter
08-27-2010, 01:26 PM
Fourth Amendment:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/08/us_court_of_appeals_goverment.html

Well, here's some fun news to kick off your weekend -- it's legal for the government, without a warrant, to place a tracking device on your car while it's sitting in your driveway, then follow your every move.

That's according to the Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals, which ruled that the Drug Enforcement Agency was within its rights when agents, attempting to monitor a suspected marijuana grower in Oregon, sneaked onto his property at night and placed a GPS tracker on his vehicle.

The court ruled that homeowners are not entitled to an expectation of privacy for their driveways if they are publicly accessible, even though it's their property. (That being the case, I owe several trick-or-treaters a serious apology.)

It's implied that if a homeowner can afford to build a fence around his property, or have it patrolled by attack hounds, he gets his privacy. That's good news if you're Montgomery Burns. For the rest of us ... er, probably not so much.

Conflicting decisions in other districts suggest the issue will end up before the Supreme Court. What are the political ramifications here? Can liberals and conservatives agree that the Orwellian overtones transcend ideology in this case? Or should the government really have the right to do this?

-------------

So, where's the outrage about George Bush...I mean Barack Hussein Obama stripping away our civil liberties? Said it before and I'll say it again; liberals are the biggest hypocrites to walk the face of the earth.

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2010, 01:31 PM
So, where's the outrage about George Bush...I mean Barack Hussein Obama stripping away our civil liberties? Said it before and I'll say it again; liberals are the biggest hypocrites to walk the face of the earth.

This wouldn't have happened in your grandfather's day.

Otter
08-27-2010, 01:32 PM
This wouldn't have happened in your grandfather's day.

You're probably correct Baby Huey.

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2010, 01:35 PM
You're probably correct Baby Huey.

LMAO

It's amazing to me that people think there's a difference between each party:

There isn't. They're both filled with power hungry, egotistical pricks that generally have no regard for anything other than the almighty dollar.

All of this finger pointing has led this country straight down the toilet and it shows no sign of that changing.

Otter
08-27-2010, 01:38 PM
LMAO

It's amazing to me that people think there's a difference between each party:

There isn't. They're both filled with power hungry, egotistical pricks that generally have no regard for anything other than the almighty dollar.

All of this finger pointing has led this country straight down the toilet and it shows no sign of that changing.

Couldn't agree with you more. The 'hypocrites' I'm referring to are not the scum bag politicians but the blind followers who see this as OK when done by a scumbag politician because they have a D in front of their name rather than an R.

Politicians do a great job of dividing and conquering of citizens and most of them follow along like mice to the Pied Piper.

Guess I'm just waiting for Jaz, Irish or Direkshun to display some of that outrage if this was done under W's reign.

Dayze
08-27-2010, 01:45 PM
LMAO

It's amazing to me that people think there's a difference between each party:

There isn't. They're both filled with power hungry, egotistical pricks that generally have no regard for anything other than the almighty dollar.

All of this finger pointing has led this country straight down the toilet and it shows no sign of that changing.

100% agree. rep.:thumb:

oldandslow
08-27-2010, 01:45 PM
LMAO

It's amazing to me that people think there's a difference between each party:

There isn't. They're both filled with power hungry, egotistical pricks that generally have no regard for anything other than the almighty dollar.

All of this finger pointing has led this country straight down the toilet and it shows no sign of that changing.

Rep

BIG_DADDY
08-27-2010, 02:04 PM
LMAO

It's amazing to me that people think there's a difference between each party:

There isn't. They're both filled with power hungry, egotistical pricks that generally have no regard for anything other than the almighty dollar.

All of this finger pointing has led this country straight down the toilet and it shows no sign of that changing.

The difference between parties has come down to their positioning on hot button issues like guns, abortion ect. They want us to focas on those issues instead of what they are actually doing. Since I have been on this BB I have said consistantly that it's not a Republican/Democrat thing, it's a corruption thing and each polititian needs to stand on their own merits and not the merits of the party. That being said our current Commander and Queef has shown that he is beyond corrupt and his policies and lack of transparency in execution along with lack of leadership solidifies his place in history.

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2010, 02:16 PM
The difference between parties has come down to their positioning on hot button issues like guns, abortion ect. They want us to focas on those issues instead of what they are actually doing. Since I have been on this BB I have said consistantly that it's not a Republican/Democrat thing, it's a corruption thing and each polititian needs to stand on their own merits and not the merits of the party. That being said our current Commander and Queef has shown that he is beyond corrupt and his policies and lack of transparency in execution along with lack of leadership solidifies his place in history.

Sadly, he is the "new breed" of politician.

For example, Scott Brown just pulled the wool over the eyes of the people in Massachusetts.

They're all same and America is suffering because of it.

BIG_DADDY
08-27-2010, 02:27 PM
Sadly, he is the "new breed" of politician.

For example, Scott Brown just pulled the wool over the eyes of the people in Massachusetts.

They're all same and America is suffering because of it.

If by all the same you mean corrupt then I concur. Nothing will change as long as there is still steak on the table. People are just too friggen lazy to care. Then there are the people who are just too dumb to know better that follow nothing but the party line. They have sigs that say things like the left is right and the right is wrong.

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2010, 02:33 PM
If by all the same you mean corrupt then I concur. Nothing will change as long as there is still steak on the table. People are just too friggen lazy to care. Then there are the people who are just too dumb to know better that follow nothing but the party line. They have sigs that say things like the left is right and the right is wrong.

As I've said for years, lobbyists and lobby groups are slowly and assuredly destroying this country.

The thing that irks me is that people blindly follow whatever talking head of their choice. Talking heads that "support" one party or the other.

The problem is that these talking heads, whether it be for the R's or the D's have it ALL wrong. They shouldn't be pointing fingers at each other, they should gather their forces and point their fingers and their collective muscle at EVERYONE. Not just a particular party or congressman or president, BUT EVERY STINKIN' LAST ONE OF THEM.

At this point, at least IMO, it should be the American people versus the government, not party versus party.

BIG_DADDY
08-27-2010, 04:00 PM
As I've said for years, lobbyists and lobby groups are slowly and assuredly destroying this country.

The thing that irks me is that people blindly follow whatever talking head of their choice. Talking heads that "support" one party or the other.

The problem is that these talking heads, whether it be for the R's or the D's have it ALL wrong. They shouldn't be pointing fingers at each other, they should gather their forces and point their fingers and their collective muscle at EVERYONE. Not just a particular party or congressman or president, BUT EVERY STINKIN' LAST ONE OF THEM.

At this point, at least IMO, it should be the American people versus the government, not party versus party.

The lobbying is a real problem but there are number of other issues as well starting with the average Joe just being too lazy and dumb. They like big government because they feel somebody is looking out for them. They don't want to take personal responsibility for anything in life even their own health and finances. It's just easier to let somebody else make those decisions.


Media is the next problem. They are only going to give time to those backed by big $$$$ for reasons that should be apparent. They are such control freaks that we can't even have a real presidential debate, we get stuck with the stupid questions the media wants to ask which are never the right ones and even those are only directed at the candidate they want to give face time to. Don't even get me started with refusing to expose huge problems that are real or worse loading us down with disinformation.

I don't see an answer to these problems as long as people are still comfortable. We have become a country of entitlement where the people have grown soft. I can't really get excited about change until the wheels fall off the wagon, until then I will just keep plugging along trying to make my way through this crap as best I can. My priority is finding the best way through the system, not changing it.

Jenson71
08-27-2010, 04:01 PM
rawr rawr guberment rawr rawr pitchforks rawr rawr congress

Jenson71
08-27-2010, 04:02 PM
I don't see an answer to these problems as long as people are still comfortable. We have become a country of entitlement where the people have grown soft. I can't really get excited about change until the wheels fall off the wagon, until then I will just keep plugging along trying to make my way through this crap as best I can. My priority is finding the best way through the system, not changing it.

Congress' approval rating is what now?

Jenson71
08-27-2010, 04:11 PM
As I've said for years, lobbyists and lobby groups are slowly and assuredly destroying this country.

Which one should lose their freedom of speech and assembly first? The NFL lobbying group? Mars candy bars? Lockheed Martin? BP?

How about Hollywood? How about music and the arts? How about charity groups?

healthpellets
08-27-2010, 04:16 PM
rawr rawr guberment rawr rawr pitchforks rawr rawr congress

so you're okay with gubment agents attaching GPS to vehicles, and trespassing on private property to do it no less?

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2010, 04:22 PM
Which one should lose their freedom of speech and assembly first? The NFL lobbying group? Mars candy bars? Lockheed Martin? BP?

How about Hollywood? How about music and the arts? How about charity groups?

How about limiting total contributions to $100 per year, per organization or corporation, for starters?

No dinners, no campaign funding, no nothing.

$100 per year maximum donation.

Jenson71
08-27-2010, 04:24 PM
so you're okay with gubment agents attaching GPS to vehicles, and trespassing on private property to do it no less?

No, I'm not.

Jenson71
08-27-2010, 04:26 PM
How about limiting total contributions to $100 per year, per organization or corporation, for starters?

No dinners, no campaign funding, no nothing.

$100 per year maximum donation.

So a group that represents 3,000,000 people is essentially worth the same as Fred Phelps Lobbyists for Life. Say the group is the Red Cross. They can only give as much as the KKK?

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2010, 04:41 PM
So a group that represents 3,000,000 people is essentially worth the same as Fred Phelps Lobbyists for Life. Say the group is the Red Cross. They can only give as much as the KKK?

Exactly.

Without the proceeds from lobbying groups, our government officials would be far less likely to favor the large corporations over the rights of the individual. Had it not been for Big Oil and their lobby money, I absolutely and unequivocally believe that our reliance on oil from Middle Eastern countries would have ended in the 80's because the corporations would have needed to find alternative energy source. For all we know, Cold Fusion would have been solved by 1990 and American would be entering a new renaissance this decade.

There are many similar arguments that can be made by abolishing lobbyist donations.

Unfortunately, until the American people make this a sticking point, it'll never happen and all of its citizens will continue as puppets to the corporations.

KC native
08-27-2010, 06:37 PM
Unfortunately, until the American people make this a sticking point, it'll never happen and all of its citizens will continue as puppets to the corporations.

Exactly right.

BIG_DADDY
08-27-2010, 07:06 PM
Exactly.

Without the proceeds from lobbying groups, our government officials would be far less likely to favor the large corporations over the rights of the individual. Had it not been for Big Oil and their lobby money, I absolutely and unequivocally believe that our reliance on oil from Middle Eastern countries would have ended in the 80's because the corporations would have needed to find alternative energy source. For all we know, Cold Fusion would have been solved by 1990 and American would be entering a new renaissance this decade.

There are many similar arguments that can be made by abolishing lobbyist donations.

Unfortunately, until the American people make this a sticking point, it'll never happen and all of its citizens will continue as puppets to the corporations.

I don't think there is any question that the lobbyists in Washington are a huge problem, I was just pointing out one of the other heads to the dragon.

BucEyedPea
08-28-2010, 08:34 AM
Lobbying groups wouldn't be a big problem if our govt followed the Constitution.
Lobbyists are a symptom of not following the Constitution—not the cause.
Nearly all our problems with our govt stem from not following the Constitution.

kcfanXIII
08-28-2010, 09:54 AM
speaking of violating the 4th amendment:

http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/2010/08/24/full-body-scan-technology-deployed-in-street-roving-vans/

orange
08-28-2010, 11:28 AM
So, where's the outrage about George Bush...I mean Barack Hussein Obama stripping away our civil liberties? Said it before and I'll say it again; liberals are the biggest hypocrites to walk the face of the earth.

"This case began in 2007, when Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agents decided to monitor Juan Pineda-Moreno, an Oregon resident who they suspected was growing marijuana. They snuck onto his property in the middle of the night and found his Jeep in his driveway, a few feet from his trailer home. Then they attached a GPS tracking device to the vehicle's underside."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2013150,00.html#ixzz0xvGhaZZY


:shake:

Pioli Zombie
08-28-2010, 12:43 PM
But when the President at the time has an R in front of his name,if he uses the Government to rape people of their rights, if you say a word against it, you had "forgotten 9/11"
Fuck both parties.

healthpellets
08-28-2010, 03:55 PM
"This case began in 2007, when Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agents decided to monitor Juan Pineda-Moreno, an Oregon resident who they suspected was growing marijuana. They snuck onto his property in the middle of the night and found his Jeep in his driveway, a few feet from his trailer home. Then they attached a GPS tracking device to the vehicle's underside."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2013150,00.html#ixzz0xvGhaZZY


:shake:

it doesn't matter who was in the big white house, or who was head of the DOJ.

anyone with any legal training, or common sense, should be able to see that trespassing on private property to attach surveillance equipment to a citizen's private property WITHOUT A WARRANT is probably violative of the 4th amendment.

but clearly, the Ninth Circuit is smarter than I.

orange
08-28-2010, 04:10 PM
but clearly, the Ninth Circuit is smarter than I.

I bet they are. There are a lot of conflicting rulings about privacy. This ruling is probably fine under some of them, not under others. The Supremes are going to have to deal with it.

Cue BEP: "Black-robed deities - they can all go to hell. :cuss:"

But my post was about the ridiculous-but-constantly-repeated charge that this is somehow Obama's fault.

healthpellets
08-28-2010, 04:20 PM
I bet they are. There are a lot of conflicting rulings about privacy. This ruling is probably fine under some of them, not under others. The Supremes are going to have to deal with it.

Cue BEP: "Black-robed deities - they can all go to hell. :cuss:"

But my post was about the ridiculous-but-constantly-repeated charge that this is somehow Obama's fault.

not only directed at you, but to anyone who thinks it makes a bit of difference which party occupied the WH...when they take away your rights, it doesn't matter who did it.

petegz28
08-28-2010, 04:25 PM
I bet they are. There are a lot of conflicting rulings about privacy. This ruling is probably fine under some of them, not under others. The Supremes are going to have to deal with it.

Cue BEP: "Black-robed deities - they can all go to hell. :cuss:"

But my post was about the ridiculous-but-constantly-repeated charge that this is somehow Obama's fault.

Isn't the 9th the most overturned court?