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orange
09-09-2010, 07:33 PM
Stryker brigade soldiers allegedly kept 'trophy' body parts

By Mike Archbold | Tacoma News Tribune


New details in Army charge sheets released Wednesday paint a disturbing picture of depravity, deceit and savage internal discipline involving at least 12 Stryker soldiers from Joint Base Lewis-Mc-Chord in Washington state during their recent deployment to Afghanistan.

The soldiers, all from the same company in the 5th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, are charged with a total of 76 crimes, including the premeditated murders of three Afghan civilians and the beating of one or more fellow soldiers.

Six of the men face charges of keeping trophy body parts from Afghan corpses, including a skull and fingers, according to the charging documents.

One soldier is alleged to have stabbed a corpse last December. Three soldiers face charges of wrongfully taking and/or possessing photographs of dead bodies.

The highest-ranking member of the group, Staff Sgt. Calvin R. Gibbs, is accused of showing fingers from a corpse to a soldier in an attempt to keep him from talking to Army investigators about his and other soldiers’ alleged use of drugs.

As previously reported, Gibbs and four other soldiers from Bravo Company, 2nd Battalion, 1st Infantry Regiment face charges of murdering Afghan noncombatants and conspiracy to commit premeditated murder in Kandahar province.

The other four are Spc. Jeremy Morlock, Spc. Michael S. Wagnon II, Spc. Adam C. Winfield and Pfc. Andrew H. Holmes. All five have been confined since returning from Afghanistan.

On May 5, just a few days after the last murder, seven of the defendants allegedly went after at least one fellow soldier, apparently to keep him quiet. (The documents are blacked out in parts, so it’s unclear if one or more soldiers were attacked.)

The soldiers allegedly beat up their comrade, hitting, kicking, strangling, dragging and spitting on him.

In an alleged effort to stymie Army investigators, some of the soldiers were also charged with lying or concealing evidence. Wagnon is charged with trying to get his computer hard drive erased.

Investigators looked into reports of more Afghan civilians being shot at by six soldiers in the unit in March. Staff Sgt. Robert Stevens told investigators that the Afghans were a threat “and that he observed something that resembled a rocket propelled grenade in the possession of the individuals he fired upon.” The statement was false, according to the documents, and Stevens knew it to be false.

Stevens also is charged with throwing a grenade outside his Stryker vehicle “while there was no threat to himself or other soldiers,” which might have hurt or killed soldiers in his own unit, according to the charge sheets. In March, he claimed an enemy fighter had thrown the grenade, which was also a lie, the documents allege.

Stevens is one of the seven soldiers in the unit charged in August with 35 non-murder counts, including assault on a fellow soldier, impeding an investigation and drug use. They have not been jailed.

Morlock and Gibbs are the only soldiers charged in all three murders, which occurred separately in January, February and May. The Afghan men were killed with grenades, shot, or both.

Attempts Wednesday to reach defense attorneys for comment were unsuccessful. All 12 defendants have been assigned military counsel.

At least some of the soldiers have retained civilian attorneys. Families for both Wagnon and Morlock have set up websites to support the two soldiers and raise funds for their defense.

Gibbs alone is charged with 16 crimes and is alleged to have had a strong hand in much of the criminal activity. From Nov. 1 to May 11, Gibbs is charged with possessing “finger bones, leg bones, and a tooth from Afghan corpses.” In November or December, he is charged with soliciting another soldier to cut off the finger of a corpse.

Gibbs also was allegedly one of the seven soldiers who participated in the May 5 beating of a fellow soldier. He threatened “to kill him if he spoke about hashish use within the platoon,” according to charging documents.

On another occasion, the records allege Gibbs threatened to injure Winfield by saying : “I’m going to send you home by dropping a tow bar on you.” He allegedly urged Winfield to lie to investigators about the civilian killings and drug use in the platoon, according to the documents.

The charge sheets don’t shed light on what might have driven the soldiers to kill: whether for revenge, or for sport, or something else.

More details will likely come out at pretrial hearings to be held at Lewis-McChord later this year, similar to grand jury investigations. Both the prosecution and defense will present their cases to the hearing officer, who must decide whether to refer the cases for a full courtmartial.

Staff writer Matt Misterek contributed to this report.

THE CHARGES

-- Spc. Jeremy N. Morlock: Premeditated murder (three charges); conspiracy to commit premeditated murder; conspiracy to commit assault and battery; wrongfully endeavoring to impede an investigation; violating a lawful general order; wrongfully using a controlled substance.

-- Spc. Michael S. Wagnon II: Premeditated murder (one charge); conspiracy to commit premeditated murder; conspiracy to commit aggravated assault with a dangerous weapon; assault with a dangerous weapon; conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline; wrongfully endeavoring to impede an investigation.

-- Spc. Adam C. Winfield: Premeditated murder (one charge); conspiracy to commit premeditated murder; conspiracy to commit aggravated assault with a dangerous weapon; committing an assault with a dangerous weapon; wrongfully using a controlled substance.

-- Pfc. Andrew H. Holmes: Premeditated murder (one charge); conspiracy to commit premeditated murder; conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline; violating a lawful general order; wrongfully using a controlled substance.

-- Staff Sgt. Calvin E. Gibbs: Premeditated murder (three charges); conspiracy to commit premeditated murder; conspiracy to commit assault and battery; conspiracy to commit aggravated assault with a dangerous weapon; conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline (two charges); wrongfully endeavoring to impede an investigation (two charges); communicating a threat to injure; unlawfully striking another soldier; committing an assault with a dangerous weapon; dereliction of duty (two charges); violating a general order. (No picture available.)

-- Staff Sgt. Robert G. Stevens: Conspiracy to commit aggravated assault with a dangerous weapon; making a false official statement; aggravated assault with a dangerous weapon; wrongfully and wantonly engaging in conduct likely to cause death or bodily harm to other soldiers; dereliction of duty.

-- Staff Sgt. David D. Bram: Conspiracy to commit assault and battery; wrongfully endeavoring to impede an investigation; unlawfully striking another soldier; violating a lawful general order; dereliction of duty.

-- Sgt. Darren N. Jones: Conspiracy to commit assault and battery; conspiracy to commit aggravated assault with a dangerous weapon; unlawfully striking another soldier; committing assault with a dangerous weapon; wrongfully endeavoring to impede an investigation; wrongfully using a controlled substance.

-- Cpl. Emmitt R. Quintal: Conspiracy to commit assault and battery; wrongfully endeavoring to impede an investigation; unlawfully striking another soldier; wrongfully using a controlled substance; violating a lawful general order.

-- Spc. Adam W. Kelly: Conspiracy to commit assault and battery; unlawfully striking another soldier; wrongfully using a controlled substance; wrongfully endeavoring to impede an investigation.

-- Spc. Corey A. Moore: Conspiracy to commit assault and battery; wrongfully endeavoring to impede an investigation; conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline; unlawfully striking another soldier; wrongfully using a controlled substance.

-- Pfc. Ashton A. Moore: Conspiracy to commit aggravated assault with a dangerous weapon; assault with a dangerous weapon; wrongfully using a controlled substance.



Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/09/09/100321/stryker-brigade-soldiers-kept.html#ixzz0z59yKpkM

orange
09-09-2010, 07:34 PM
They wouldn't post a video of a beheading on Internet.

Frazod
09-09-2010, 07:40 PM
Do you feel better now?

orange
09-09-2010, 07:48 PM
Do you feel worse?

Personally, I feel dirty. Very dirty. Like the flag I just brought in for the night has been shit on.

But should America be judged by this handful of disgrace? Is that fair?

Frazod
09-09-2010, 07:58 PM
Do you feel worse?

Personally, I feel dirty. Very dirty. Like the flag I just brought in for the night has been shit on.

But should America be judged by this handful of disgrace? Is that fair?

God only knows how many tours those guys have served, how many of their friends have died in front of them, how many horrible things they've endured, or what those poor wonderful peace-loving flower child civilians you're so fond of were actually doing. Or maybe you assume our troops got like this from getting yelled at in bootcamp?

Anyway, it's obvious you're viewing this as some sort of personal triumph, so I guess something good came from this. Enjoy your moment in the sun.

BTW, what country's flag do you fly?

orange
09-09-2010, 08:01 PM
Hammer and Sickle. Haven't been around much have you? But you'll fit right in - the VERY FIRST THING for you wingtards to do here is question the loyalty of anyone who disagrees with you. It's the telltale mark of your broad intellectual horizons.

Frazod
09-09-2010, 08:06 PM
Hammer and Sickle. Haven't been around much have you? But you'll fit right in - the VERY FIRST THING for you wingtards to do here is question the loyalty of anyone who disagrees with you. It's the telltale mark of your broad intellectual horizons.

ROFL

Try again, moron. The RRNJs on here probably hate me more than they do you.

As I said before, this place is full of extremist idiots. You're just the flipside of Shitsprayer.

Have a nice day, comrade.

SNR
09-09-2010, 08:07 PM
Hammer and Sickle. Haven't been around much have you? But you'll fit right in - the VERY FIRST THING for you wingtards to do here is question the loyalty of anyone who disagrees with you. It's the telltale mark of your broad intellectual horizons.NOW do you see what happens when you don't wear your American flag lapel pin?

orange
09-09-2010, 08:11 PM
Have a nice day, comrade.

You never did answer - should America be judged by these idiots?

I think you know where I'm going with that... which explains your cowardice.

p.s And if the "wing" doesn't fit, we'll just stick with the "tard."

Chief Henry
09-09-2010, 08:18 PM
Orange, I challenge you to go find a POSITIVE story about our soldiers and serviceman and put it in this thread. It should be easy for you to do that, but you'd never make a thread about sodiers and a good story before putting up this garabge...that speaks volumes about you.

dirk digler
09-09-2010, 08:23 PM
Sounds just like just the type of soldiers we need

orange
09-09-2010, 08:24 PM
Orange, I challenge you to go find a POSITIVE story about our soldiers and serviceman and put it in this thread. It should be easy for you to do that, but you'd never make a thread about sodiers and a good story before putting up this garabge...that speaks volumes about you.

I put up this story because (1) it just happened today and (2) it's relevant to other discussions in earlier threads today. Threads that have been ongoing for weeks, actually - the whole Mosque/Quran Burning debate, the debate frazod is running away from.

You want a positive story about our soldiers, go look for it yourself. I for one bet you have no problem at all finding one. But I note that YOU didn't post it here, either. Why not?

Hell, there's even a positive note in the story above. WE'RE prosecuting. I guess you missed that.

SNR
09-09-2010, 08:28 PM
Orange, I challenge you to go find a POSITIVE story about our soldiers and serviceman and put it in this thread. It should be easy for you to do that, but you'd never make a thread about sodiers and a good story before putting up this garabge...that speaks volumes about you.You're missing his point. 99.999% of our troops don't engage in this kind of behavior. But there's the handful that do.

99.999% of our "enemies" don't behead Americans. So why the distinction between we the civilized people and those camel-fuckers, towel heads, or any other word you want to use to demonize people in the Middle East? The actions of a few do not represent the near-perfect majority.

Edit: Or what orange said

Dave Lane
09-09-2010, 08:31 PM
If guilty I say shoot the fuckers in full view of the afghans relatives. Same thing seems fair for any afghan killer we catch too. Shoot 'em in public. Something the locals would understand.

HonestChieffan
09-09-2010, 08:32 PM
You never did answer - should America be judged by these idiots?

I think you know where I'm going with that... which explains your cowardice.

p.s And if the "wing" doesn't fit, we'll just stick with the "tard."

no more than all democrats should be judged based on you.

Chief Henry
09-09-2010, 08:50 PM
I put up this story because (1) it just happened today and (2) it's relevant to other discussions in earlier threads today. Threads that have been ongoing for weeks, actually - the whole Mosque/Quran Burning debate, the debate frazod is running away from.

You want a positive story about our soldiers, go look for it yourself. I for one bet you have no problem at all finding one. But I note that YOU didn't post it here, either. Why not?

Hell, there's even a positive note in the story above. WE'RE prosecuting. I guess you missed that.



You are so weak, I almost want to have pity on you. I challenged you because you started this thread. Lets see if you post a positive thread about our soldiers.... I won't hold my breath. We all know what YOU are about.

orange
09-09-2010, 08:51 PM
You are so weak, I almost want to have pity on you. I challenged you because you started this thread. Lets see if you post a positive thread about our soldiers.... I won't hold my breath. We all know what YOU are about.

Sorry, I don't dance.

Chief Henry
09-09-2010, 08:53 PM
You're missing his point. 99.999% of our troops don't engage in this kind of behavior. But there's the handful that do.

99.999% of our "enemies" don't behead Americans. So why the distinction between we the civilized people and those camel-****ers, towel heads, or any other word you want to use to demonize people in the Middle East? The actions of a few do not represent the near-perfect majority.

Edit: Or what orange said

I think you missed his point. She was dripping with sarcasm for our troops.

Chief Henry
09-09-2010, 08:53 PM
Sorry, I don't dance.

You keep proving my point every time you post.

orange
09-09-2010, 08:58 PM
You keep proving my point every time you post.

And you keep posting nothing every time you post.

HonestChieffan
09-09-2010, 08:59 PM
As commander in chief, isn't Obama guilty?

SNR
09-09-2010, 09:02 PM
I think you missed his point. She was dripping with sarcasm for our troops.Where?

Frazod
09-09-2010, 09:02 PM
I put up this story because (1) it just happened today and (2) it's relevant to other discussions in earlier threads today. Threads that have been ongoing for weeks, actually - the whole Mosque/Quran Burning debate, the debate frazod is running away from.

You want a positive story about our soldiers, go look for it yourself. I for one bet you have no problem at all finding one. But I note that YOU didn't post it here, either. Why not?

Hell, there's even a positive note in the story above. WE'RE prosecuting. I guess you missed that.

LMAO I'm not running away from anything, you stupid bitch. What's there to run away from? Your entire take on this is both pathetic and despicable.

As for our "great debate," I posted exactly TWICE in that thread. I guess it doesn't take much to make you blow a gasket, does it?

Chief Henry
09-09-2010, 09:03 PM
And you keep posting nothing every time you post.

Still nothing positive about our soliers Orange? Your venom and weakness is spewing all over your monitor. Have a nice evening hating our soldiers.

Bwana
09-09-2010, 09:04 PM
The board libtard commie posting something anti-American.......SHOCKING!!

orange
09-09-2010, 09:06 PM
LMAO I'm not running away from anything, you stupid bitch. What's there to run away from? Your entire take on this is both pathetic and despicable.

As for our "great debate," I posted exactly TWICE in that thread. I guess it doesn't take much to make you blow a gasket, does it?

Still no answer. Still running.

More insults, though. I guess your gasket is long gone.

Should America be judged by the actions of these soldiers?

When somebody on our side slowly saws an Al Jazeera reporter's head off in front of a video camera and posts it on the internet, give me a call. Personally, I don't give a shit how many qurans they burn.

Does murdering people and collecting body parts count?

Saul Good
09-09-2010, 09:07 PM
Don't question the left's love of America. Dissent is patriotic.*


*Unless you are a Republican and the President is black. Then, dissent is racism.

orange
09-09-2010, 09:09 PM
The board libtard commie posting something anti-American.......SHOCKING!!

New details in Army charge sheets released Wednesday paint a disturbing picture of depravity, deceit and savage internal discipline involving at least 12 Stryker soldiers from Joint Base Lewis-Mc-Chord in Washington state during their recent deployment to Afghanistan.

The soldiers, all from the same company in the 5th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, are charged with a total of 76 crimes, including the premeditated murders of three Afghan civilians and the beating of one or more fellow soldiers.


Anti-American? It's the AMERICAN ARMY lodging these charges. I guess they're a bunch of commies, right?

Frankie
09-09-2010, 09:10 PM
The board libtard commie posting something anti-American.......SHOCKING!!

I don't see anything anti-American in this, Bwana. Personally I have always found the sentiment that the troops are untouchable heroes in our comments, to be naive and reckless. In all societies there are good guys and there are assholes and criminals. That holds true in the society that is the military as well.

mikey23545
09-09-2010, 09:10 PM
This is a fucking retarded debate.

Did some American soldiers commit some war crimes? Sounds like it.

Is it part of their belief system, or religion, or sanctioned by their society? Would a lot of American citizens condone their behavior? Is this only the tiniest fraction of Americans and will other Americans dance in the street celebrating when they hear of it?

Now substitute the word Muslims wherever you see the word Americans and you'll begin to understand the difference...

Oh wait...I'm talking about liberals...strike the last part.

orange
09-09-2010, 09:11 PM
Don't question the left's love of America. Dissent is patriotic.*



Anti-American? It's the AMERICAN ARMY lodging these charges. I guess they're a bunch of leftists, right?

Frazod
09-09-2010, 09:12 PM
Earlier today, some stinking vagrant shitbag asked me for change. When I ignored him, he started yelling at me as I walked on down the street.

I'll bet he thinks I was running away, too. :D

Poor bastard's probably sucking somebody's dick for drug money right now. Life's a bitch in the big city.

orange
09-09-2010, 09:14 PM
Questions to "conservatives"

Is the U.S. Army RIGHT to pursue these charges? Is supporting the U.S. Army's pursuit of these charges un-American in some way? Is MURDER an American value?

SNR
09-09-2010, 09:15 PM
I don't see anything anti-American in this, Bwana. Personally I have always found the sentiment that the troops are untouchable heroes in our comments, to be naive and reckless. In all societies there are good guys and there are assholes and criminals. That holds true in the society that is the military as well.And that's what you see now. People can't call body part hoarders assholes as long as they wear a US Military uniform. Unless you want to appear unamerican

orange
09-09-2010, 09:15 PM
Earlier today, some stinking vagrant shitbag asked me for change.

Sorry to hear your father's down on his luck.

mikey23545
09-09-2010, 09:20 PM
Like the flag I just brought in for the night has been shit on.


Oh, you have to mention flying the flag?...LMAO

Is that the same as "I have lots of black friends!"

Brainiac
09-09-2010, 09:27 PM
This is a ****ing retarded debate.

Did some American soldiers commit some war crimes? Sounds like it.

Is it part of their belief system, or religion, or sanctioned by their society? Would a lot of American citizens condone their behavior? Is this only the tiniest fraction of Americans and will other Americans dance in the street celebrating when they hear of it?

Now substitute the word Muslims wherever you see the word Americans and you'll begin to understand the difference...

Oh wait...I'm talking about liberals...strike the last part.
I don't believe Orange or any of the other libs ever responded to this. I wonder why?

HonestChieffan
09-09-2010, 09:28 PM
Questions to "conservatives"

Is the U.S. Army RIGHT to pursue these charges? Is supporting the U.S. Army's pursuit of these charges un-American in some way? Is MURDER an American value?

You are an odd chap.

orange
09-09-2010, 09:29 PM
I don't believe Orange or any of the other libs ever responded to this. I wonder why?

Answer my questions and maybe I'll answer yours.

The main one:


But should America be judged by this handful of disgrace? Is that fair?

Others:

Questions to "conservatives"

Is the U.S. Army RIGHT to pursue these charges? Is supporting the U.S. Army's pursuit of these charges un-American in some way? Is MURDER an American value?

Brainiac
09-09-2010, 09:41 PM
should America be judged by this handful of disgrace? Is that fair?
No, and no.

Questions to "conservatives"

Is the U.S. Army RIGHT to pursue these charges? Is supporting the U.S. Army's pursuit of these charges un-American in some way? Is MURDER an American value?
Yes. No. No.

Answer my questions and maybe I'll answer yours.


All right, now it's time for you to shit or get off the pot. Do Americans dance in the streets and celebrate when they hear that their soldiers have committed atrocities and murders?

Did large groups of Muslims all over the world dance in the streets and celebrate when they heard about the 3000 murders on 9/11?

That is the difference that you REFUSE to acknowledge.

Saul Good
09-09-2010, 09:46 PM
Anti-American? It's the AMERICAN ARMY lodging these charges. I guess they're a bunch of leftists, right?

Nope. They aren't waving it around trying to prove...what ARE you trying to prove, anyway?

orange
09-09-2010, 09:54 PM
Did large groups of Muslims all over the world dance in the streets and celebrate when they heard about the 3000 murders on 9/11?

That is the difference that you REFUSE to acknowledge.

Nonsense. There are many Muslims all over the world who carry grudges against America. When I mentioned that in a different thread a couple days ago, of course, I was labeled anti-American. Go figure.

Of course, I also mentioned that we (the U.S.A.) have killed Muslims in wars. I guess acknowledging that simple fact is what makes me anti-American.

However, about this whole Muslim vs. non-Muslim thing:

Terrorism and murder is no more a part of Islam than it is a part of Christianity. And Muslims do not have the murders of six million Jews on their hands. Nor thousands of Kosovites, or northern Irish or English soldiers or Spaniards in the Pyrenees. Muslims weren't here in colonial days killing Quakers. The acts of the murderers are no more representative of Islam than those others are representative of Christianity. No less, either.

Religious radicalism transcends religion.

But the whitewashing of brutality when it happens to be done by Americans seem to be a rightwing thing. This is why posting an article about the U.S. Army charging soldiers for crimes is un-American.

Saul Good
09-09-2010, 10:06 PM
What percentage of major conflicts in the world over the last few decades do not involve Muslims?

orange
09-09-2010, 10:08 PM
What percentage of major conflicts in the world over the last few decades do not involve Muslims?

It's their years. It's been Europe for so long, but that has finally seemed to resolve itself. That and nukes have rendered the BIG conflicts passe'.

Brainiac
09-09-2010, 10:10 PM
Nonsense. There are many Muslims all over the world who carry grudges against America. When I mentioned that in a different thread a couple days ago, of course, I was labeled anti-American. Go figure.

Of course, I also mentioned that we (the U.S.A.) have killed Muslims in wars. I guess acknowledging that simple fact is what makes me anti-American.

However, about this whole Muslim vs. non-Muslim thing:

Terrorism and murder is no more a part of Islam than it is a part of Christianity. And Muslims do not have the murders of six million Jews on their hands. Nor thousands of Kosovites, or northern Irish or English soldiers or Spaniards in the Pyrenees. Muslims weren't here in colonial days killing Quakers. The acts of the murderers are no more representative of Islam than those others are representative of Christianity. No less, either.

Religious radicalism transcends religion.

But the whitewashing of brutality when it happens to be done by Americans seem to be a rightwing thing. This is why posting an article about the U.S. Army charging soldiers for crimes is un-American.
I asked a pretty specific question and you dodged it completely. So I'll ask it again.

Did large groups of Muslims all over the world dance in the streets and celebrate when they heard about the 3000 murders on 9/11?

It doesn't matter if they felt like they had some grievance against Christians or America. They celebrated the deaths of thousands of completely innocent people because they hate us.

Again, that is the difference between that and the idiotic comparison you tried use as the basis of this thread.

orange
09-09-2010, 10:12 PM
Did large groups of Muslims all over the world dance in the streets and celebrate when they heard about the 3000 murders on 9/11?


I answered quite clearly. Yes, Muslims danced in the streets - though I will question what you consider "large groups" when there are 1-2 BILLION Muslims in the world. So ****ing what?

Did Muslims in MANHATTAN dance in the streets?

Because THOSE are the people building the "Mosque."

Frankie
09-09-2010, 10:15 PM
I don't believe Orange or any of the other libs ever responded to this. I wonder why?

OK I'll answer it:

Mikey's post is BS and resulted from the typical misinformation that your side's loud-mouth charlattans perpetuate. Let me quote it below:

This is a ****ing retarded debate.

Did some American soldiers commit some war crimes? Sounds like it.

Is it part of their belief system, or religion, or sanctioned by their society? Would a lot of American citizens condone their behavior? Is this only the tiniest fraction of Americans and will other Americans dance in the street celebrating when they hear of it?

Now substitute the word Muslims wherever you see the word Americans and you'll begin to understand the difference...

Mikey has absolutely no understanding of other religions other than thwe one he was raised all his life with. Obviously all he has heard in church, school, home, etc, is geared to promote Christianity in his psyche. You would agree, wouldn't you, that most of the stuff you have grown up with is the pasteurized version of the religion.

Though I am not a religious person, I have been raised around Islam. My understanding of the Islamic religion and the TYPICAL practitioner of it is nothing, NOTHING like his. No such bloody-eyed, crazy violence is promoted within the religion. Certainly no more than can be found in other religions. I don't blame Mikey nor you for not knowing enough about another religion/custom. I do hold you responsible, though, for taking such radical stand against an issue before you even bothering to educate yourself a bit more about it.

Brainiac
09-09-2010, 10:21 PM
I do hold you responsible, though, for taking such radical stand against an issue before you even bothering to educate yourself a bit more about it.
It is not a radical stand to say "Don't build a mosque 500 feet from a place where radical Muslims murdered 3,000 people".

I can't believe I even have to say that. It should be self-evident.

Iowanian
09-09-2010, 10:23 PM
You should feel like a piece of shit, it's pretty disgusting to see you doing a victory dance with every opportunity to post something like this.

Do you feel worse?

Personally, I feel dirty. Very dirty. Like the flag I just brought in for the night has been shit on.

But should America be judged by this handful of disgrace? Is that fair?

mikey23545
09-09-2010, 10:28 PM
OK I'll answer it:

Mikey's post is BS and resulted from the typical misinformation that your side's loud-mouth charlattans perpetuate. Let me quote it below:



Mikey has absolutely no understanding of other religions other than thwe one he was raised all his life with. Obviously all he has heard in church, school, home, etc, is geared to promote Christianity in his psyche. You would agree, wouldn't you, that most of the stuff you have grown up with is the pasteurized version of the religion.

Though I am not a religious person, I have been raised around Islam. My understanding of the Islamic religion and the TYPICAL practitioner of it is nothing, NOTHING like his. No such bloody-eyed, crazy violence is promoted within the religion. Certainly no more than can be found in other religions. I don't blame Mikey nor you for not knowing enough about another religion/custom. I do hold you responsible, though, for taking such radical stand against an issue before you even bothering to educate yourself a bit more about it.

I'm an atheist, you liberal idiot.

ClevelandBronco
09-09-2010, 10:53 PM
Do you feel worse?

Personally, I feel dirty. Very dirty. Like the flag I just brought in for the night has been shit on.

But should America be judged by this handful of disgrace? Is that fair?

I think that it's fair to judge the U.S. by the alleged actions of these soldiers as well as by the fact that they are being prosecuted as criminals by the U.S.

blaise
09-09-2010, 11:06 PM
orange probably was filled with glee when he saw this story, knowing he could post it on a message board.

Bwana
09-09-2010, 11:07 PM
orange probably was filled with glee when he saw this story, knowing he could post it on a message board.

Without a doubt. The guy is a lowlife.

blaise
09-09-2010, 11:21 PM
You know what's strange- when George Tiller was shot there were people in this forum ready to condemn the entire pro-life movement. I would wager some of those people are the same ones vehemently defending Muslims and Islam against unfair generalization.
Judging Muslims based on the actions of a few- bigoted and prejudiced.
Judging Pro Life supporters based on the actions of one- okay.

fan4ever
09-09-2010, 11:25 PM
One thing that never seems to go out of style is liberal self-loathing. That crap must be like heroin.

Mr. Kotter
09-09-2010, 11:37 PM
As Lady Thatcher said, "There are too many people who imagine that there is something sophisticated about always believing the best of those who hate your country, and the worst of those who defend it."

Orange, orange, orange.... :shake:

:rolleyes:

SNR
09-09-2010, 11:43 PM
As Lady Thatcher said, "There are too many people who imagine that there is something sophisticated about always believing the best of those who hate your country, and the worst of those who defend it."

Orange, orange, orange.... :shake:

:rolleyes:Yes, because orange said, "military personnel are scum" :rolleyes:

stevieray
09-09-2010, 11:44 PM
Yes, because orange said, "military personnel are scum" :rolleyes:
ya. cause the thread title is so genuine.

shut up, SNaRc.

SNR
09-09-2010, 11:51 PM
ya. cause the thread title is so genuine.

shut up, narc.He's making fun of people who get hung up on details, not on the decorum of the American military.

If patteau posted this article, we'd be discussing the event (or maybe not, probably wouldn't get much discussion. Not much to discuss other than those are some sick fuckers). Orange posted it and people accuse him of hating America and delighting in his "proof" that Americans are evil. That's not at all what he's saying, of course, and if you were following his posts you'd get that.

I'm noticing that outside of a few questions being answered back and forth between orange and Brainiac, there is no discussion. It's all emotional belly-aching. Stuff like, "if you love your country so much why don't you post an article that positively reviews American troops." Why? So orange can gain approval from a stranger on the internet?

blaise
09-09-2010, 11:54 PM
He's making fun of people who get hung up on details, not on the decorum of the American military.

If patteau posted this article, we'd be discussing the event (or maybe not, probably wouldn't get much discussion. Not much to discuss other than those are some sick ****ers). Orange posted it and people accuse him of hating America and delighting in his "proof" that Americans are evil. That's not at all what he's saying, of course, and if you were following his posts you'd get that.

I'm noticing that outside of a few questions being answered back and forth between orange and Brainiac, there is no discussion. It's all emotional belly-aching. Stuff like, "if you love your country so much why don't you post an article that positively reviews American troops." Why? So orange can gain approval from a stranger on the internet?

I do follow his posts on this forum, and that's exactly what leads me to believe that he delighted in finding this story.

SNR
09-09-2010, 11:59 PM
I do follow his posts on this forum, and that's exactly what leads me to believe that he delighted in finding this story.Okay. I think he's posting the article as a topical commentary to what's going on in this country currently with Islam relations. Why do I think that? Because that's what he said.

blaise
09-10-2010, 12:06 AM
Okay. I think he's posting the article as a topical commentary to what's going on in this country currently with Islam relations. Why do I think that? Because that's what he said.

Oh, I agree with that. What I'm saying is I think he's very eager to make particular topical commentaries, and he seems like the type of person to me that would be happy to run across this story so that he might be able to make this particular topical commentary. Maybe it's unfair to say that, but based on conversations I've had here with him, and reading posts he's made, I don't feel I'm really going out on a limb.
I'll put it this way- I doubt you'll be seeing him link a story about some atrocities committed by soldiers or civilians from another country against the US anytime, so that he can make a topical commentary.

blaise
09-10-2010, 12:08 AM
I think he has me on ignore, by the way, so I'm fairly sure the dislike is mutual.

BIG_DADDY
09-10-2010, 12:15 AM
Would somebody please cut off oranges fingers so he would quit posting?

go bowe
09-10-2010, 12:47 AM
I think he has me on ignore, by the way, so I'm fairly sure the dislike is mutual.well i have you on ignore and i don't dislike you...

oh wait...

go bowe
09-10-2010, 12:51 AM
Would somebody please cut off oranges fingers so he would quit posting?oh, c'mon...

we've got to have somebody to throw rocks at, don't we?

BIG_DADDY
09-10-2010, 12:58 AM
oh, c'mon...

we've got to have somebody to throw rocks at, don't we?

Look dude, I got dibs on his fingers but you can have the femur. It would make a great avatar.

SNR
09-10-2010, 01:05 AM
Look dude, I got dibs on his fingers but you can have the femur. It would make a great avatar.You want his fingers? Gay.

BIG_DADDY
09-10-2010, 01:08 AM
You want his fingers? Gay.

Well I suppose it's all in the way that you look at it but if that's where it takes you who am I to slow you down?

SNR
09-10-2010, 01:26 AM
Well I suppose it's all in the way that you look at it but if that's where it takes you who am I to slow you down?You're cool with letting me have my way? Gay.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 08:04 AM
I think it's necessary to have a clear-eyed view of the atrocities our rogue soldiers commit with our own taxpayer money. It's irresponsible not to. Kudos orange for a tough, controversial thread about an important topic.

It's more important to post and be aware of stuff like this -- negative stories about soldiers doing dispicable things -- than the positive stories because it's a hard truth, a truth just as necessary as (if not more necessary than) easy truths. There's no social backlash to posting a story about a soldier who saved children. There's intense backlash to posting stories like this, which makes the sheer act of doing so patriotic. Because these terrible stories are just as important to be aware of as the positive stories, but we get so wrapped up in cognitive dissonance that our first impulse is to demonize the guy promoting it.

And orange is promoting it for a very simple argument that people have largely bypassed in favor of ad hominems and righteous indignation about George Tiller for some reason.

You can't judge a population by its crazies. Period. I would agree that there's more crazies in the Middle East than there is in the United States, but that's not because of religion, it's because of vast poverty and desperation. Desperation breeds extremism (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=230462&highlight=palestinian), and just because extremism is more widespread in the Middle East doesn't mean Islam is to blame. Or that it is to be defined by its craziest adherents.

Baby Lee
09-10-2010, 08:11 AM
Howard Stern has 12 Gook earlobes.

Iowanian
09-10-2010, 08:18 AM
Muslim assholes set off car bombs or suicide bombs in at least 3 cities in 3 countries last night and each event resulted in the death of more civilians than the crime these guys committed....yet you didn't post those.


Orange eats old urinal mints.


now, bring on the standard "DO YOU KNOW WHUZ UR TALKIN TOOOOO!" private stuff, my little donkey bitch.

blaise
09-10-2010, 08:19 AM
I think it's necessary to have a clear-eyed view of the atrocities our rogue soldiers commit with our own taxpayer money. It's irresponsible not to. Kudos orange for a tough, controversial thread about an important topic.

It's more important to post and be aware of stuff like this -- negative stories about soldiers doing dispicable things -- than the positive stories because it's a hard truth, a truth just as necessary as (if not more necessary than) easy truths. There's no social backlash to posting a story about a soldier who saved children. There's intense backlash to posting stories like this, which makes the sheer act of doing so patriotic. Because these terrible stories are just as important to be aware of as the positive stories, but we get so wrapped up in cognitive dissonance that our first impulse is to demonize the guy promoting it.

And orange is promoting it for a very simple argument that people have largely bypassed in favor of ad hominems and righteous indignation about George Tiller for some reason.

You can't judge a population by its crazies. Period. I would agree that there's more crazies in the Middle East than there is in the United States, but that's not because of religion, it's because of vast poverty and desperation. Desperation breeds extremism (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=230462&highlight=palestinian), and just because extremism is more widespread in the Middle East doesn't mean Islam is to blame. Or that it is to be defined by its craziest adherents.

There's no righteous indignation about George Tiller, it's pointing out a hypocrisy, just like orange is trying to do. His thread seems to be pointing out a hypocrisy that's been going on on this board- judging a whole by the actions of a few. There's nothing unfair with responding in kind (in fact, it's exactly what orange does regularly on this board. He posts and pastes links to something similar the right has done every time someone points out something negative about the left) I don't get why pointing out one hypocrisy is righteous indignation, while another is patriotic. Unless you're decisions on hypocrisy are based strictly on political purposes.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 08:25 AM
There's no righteous indignation about George Tiller, it's pointing out a hypocrisy, just like orange is trying to do. His thread seems to be pointing out a hypocrisy that's been going on on this board- judging a whole by the actions of a few. There's nothing unfair with responding in kind (in fact, it's exactly what orange does regularly on this board. He posts and pastes links to something similar the right has done every time someone points out something negative about the left) I don't get why pointing out one hypocrisy is righteous indignation, while another is patriotic. Unless you're decisions on hypocrisy are based strictly on political purposes.

So.... how, exactly, does George Tiller come within even within earshot of this conversation, again?

blaise
09-10-2010, 08:27 AM
Did you read my original post? I think it's pretty clear.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 08:27 AM
Muslim assholes set off car bombs or suicide bombs in at least 3 cities in 3 countries last night and each event resulted in the death of more civilians than the crime these guys committed....yet you didn't post those.

He chose to post facts that prompted a social backlash, rather than post stuff that everybody agreed with. A hard truth, rather than an easy one.

I'm not saying you have to like it. I don't know how you could. But it's not a terrible or evil thing to do, like you're making it out to be. I'd argue that it's necessary.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 08:30 AM
Did you read my original post? I think it's pretty clear.

That there are armies of liberals trying to say George Tiller's murderer is the perfect representation of all pro-lifers?

I have not found a single post on this board that's said such a thing. So you're not going to hold my feet to the fire, or the feet of any other liberal that posts on this forum, for the actions of the Democratic Underground.

However, on this board, you do have swaths of people that associate Islam with the extremists. Frequently.

I mean, I'll agree with you on treating Tiller's murderer as a representation of all pro-lifers. Just like I'll agree with you that Ronald McDonald shouldn't be treated as a representation of all clowns. Because neither one of those arguments have been made on this board.

dirk digler
09-10-2010, 08:31 AM
There's no righteous indignation about George Tiller, it's pointing out a hypocrisy, just like orange is trying to do. His thread seems to be pointing out a hypocrisy that's been going on on this board- judging a whole by the actions of a few. There's nothing unfair with responding in kind (in fact, it's exactly what orange does regularly on this board. He posts and pastes links to something similar the right has done every time someone points out something negative about the left) I don't get why pointing out one hypocrisy is righteous indignation, while another is patriotic. Unless you're decisions on hypocrisy are based strictly on political purposes.

There is no hypocrisy. Pro lifers = AQ

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 08:33 AM
And just to relay an exchange we just had in private...

I repped blaise a few minutes ago in her post where she claims orange delights in stories like this: "Poor form."

She reps back: "poor form is given to those that regularly exhibit poor form."

How, exactly, posting the hard truths about American war atrocities is poor form is beyond me. I think it's patriotic to recognize the shitty things we do in conjunction with the positive. Because either have an effect.

dirk digler
09-10-2010, 08:35 AM
And just to relay an exchange we just had in private...

I repped blaise a few minutes ago in her post where she claims orange delights in stories like this.

She reps back: "poor form is given to those that regularly exhibit poor form."

How, exactly, posting the hard truths about American war atrocities is poor form is beyond me. I think it's patriotic to recognize the shitty things we do in conjunction with the positive. Because either have an effect.

blaise is a her? No wonder she is so sensitive all the time.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 08:36 AM
blaise is a her? No wonder she is so sensitive all the time.

I believe she is a her? I think I was told that before.

dirk digler
09-10-2010, 08:38 AM
I believe she is a her? I think I was told that before.

Makes sense. blaise holds a grudge like a girl

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 08:40 AM
I want to say one more thing before I stick to replying for the rest of the thread:

This is patriotism.

You guys don't want to hear it. And it's not popular. But anybody can recognize the good things our country does. But to keep your worldview limited to that is self-deception, although it certainly makes life easier.

Understanding the hard truths, the bad things we do that have just as much an effect as the good things, in order to work to eliminate them, in the most sensitive of topics like this one... It's necessary to do in a democracy. The military understands that, and is prosecuting. Which should make us all glad to be Americans, because "the other side" doesn't do that. We do.

That's patriotism. That's what makes this a great country. And to persevere in the fact-finding through the predictable vitriol it will inspire should be a duty.

oldandslow
09-10-2010, 08:40 AM
There is nothing "civilized" about war, no matter how much we try to make it a video game. It impacts people. It makes you savage. You never forget it and you dream about it...sometimes even 40 years later.

Holding on to your humanity while participating in this inhumane endeavor is almost impossible.

I am not a pacifist. Indeed, I fought in a war that was much more "hand to hand" than this one. I killed. And watched buddies die.

It changed me.

There are some folks who enter the military that were psychopaths or narcissists in the civilian world.

And there are some that become that way because of combat.

I was lucky enough to have the genes or moral background or whatever that kept me from committing some of the worst of these crimes. But don't lecture about those who can't.

We placed them there.

It is why I believe that we should have a much deeper conversation about when and where we go to war. It is why congress should ALWAYS declare war before we go. We need that national discussion and not just run haphazard all over the world.

Bush was wrong about Iraq. Obama is wrong about Afghanistan.

And we are wrong for not demanding more from our leaders.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 08:42 AM
There is nothing "civilized" about war, no matter how much we try to make it a video game. It impacts people. It makes you savage. You never forget it and you dream about it...sometimes even 40 years later.

Holding on to your humanity while participating in this inhumane endeavor is almost impossible.

I am not a pacifist. Indeed, I fought in a war that was much more "hand to hand" than this one. I killed. And watched buddies die.

It changed me.

There are some folks who enter the military that were psychopaths or narcissists in the civilian world.

And there are some that become that way because of combat.

I was lucky enough to have the genes or moral background or whatever that kept me from committing some of the worst of these crimes. But don't lecture about those who can't.

We placed them there.

It is why I believe that we should have a much deeper conversation about when and where we go to war. It is why congress should ALWAYS declare war before we go. We need that national discussion and not just run haphazard all over the world.

Bush was wrong about Iraq. Obama is wrong about Afghanistan.

And we are wrong for not demanding more from our leaders.

I'm not with you on all of this, but this is a great post on a very sensitive subject.

dirk digler
09-10-2010, 08:47 AM
I want to say one more thing before I stick to replying for the rest of the thread:

This is patriotism.

You guys don't want to hear it. And it's not popular. But anybody can recognize the good things our country does. But to keep your worldview limited to that is self-deception, although it certainly makes life easier.

Understanding the hard truths, the bad things we do that have just as much an effect as the good things, in order to work to eliminate them, in the most sensitive of topics like this one... It's necessary to do in a democracy. The military understands that, and is prosecuting. Which should make us all glad to be Americans, because "the other side" doesn't do that. We do.

That's patriotism. That's what makes this a great country. And to persevere in the fact-finding through the predictable vitriol it will inspire should be a duty.

Definitely agree. We do alot more good than bad but that doesn't mean we should hide the bad or never talk about it.

And let me just add that these soldiers need to be prosecuted for committing murder against innocent civilians. I don't care though about collecting body parts as prizes that has been going on since there were wars.

Barret
09-10-2010, 08:49 AM
My copy and paste skills for CP sucks but I think Orange deserves an answer to his questions.

The main one:
1: But should America be judged by this handful of disgrace? Is that fair?

2: Is the U.S. Army RIGHT to pursue these charges? Is supporting the U.S. Army's pursuit of these charges un-American in some way? Is MURDER an American value?

In answer to question #1.

America should not be judged for these actions but it might lead to The US Armed forces being judged. This could lead to more strife for our armed service members there in harms way. Take for example if your local city police department had a group of individuals in it operating some very illegal activities and finally got caught. Would your perception of the police force in that city change? Yes. Would your perception of the people that lived in that city change? more then likely not.

In answer to question #2

Yes it is the US Army's responsibility to pursue these individuals and bring them in front of a US military court to answer for their crimes. There should be no shroud of mystery or anything surrounding the trial and all verdicts should be shown to the Afghan people in that area on what should happen to people who break the law. This will show to the Afghan people that the rule of law and justice exist for everyone, including Americans that cant be human.

Supporting this pursuit is not un-American and every American no matter which side of the spectrum you vote from should want these men to stand trial.

The last part is a little over the top but no, murder is not a value.

Now unsure of where you stand on the following but I think this is where we might differ.

This trial should be held by an United States Military judge with US Military standing members as a jury. If someone wants to sit in the back and take notes (UN rep, Afhgan rep) then so be it but these men are to be sentenced by their peers and the people they work with not some UN court or some other entity outside of the US Military.

Dave Lane
09-10-2010, 08:56 AM
Makes sense. blaise holds a grudge like a girl

Also makes sense because she is more intellectual than most of the other conservatives. I don't agree with most of her views but I can recognize actual intellect.

mlyonsd
09-10-2010, 09:09 AM
There is nothing "civilized" about war, no matter how much we try to make it a video game. It impacts people. It makes you savage. You never forget it and you dream about it...sometimes even 40 years later.

Holding on to your humanity while participating in this inhumane endeavor is almost impossible.

I am not a pacifist. Indeed, I fought in a war that was much more "hand to hand" than this one. I killed. And watched buddies die.

It changed me.

There are some folks who enter the military that were psychopaths or narcissists in the civilian world.

And there are some that become that way because of combat.

I was lucky enough to have the genes or moral background or whatever that kept me from committing some of the worst of these crimes. But don't lecture about those who can't.

We placed them there.

It is why I believe that we should have a much deeper conversation about when and where we go to war. It is why congress should ALWAYS declare war before we go. We need that national discussion and not just run haphazard all over the world.

Bush was wrong about Iraq. Obama is wrong about Afghanistan.

And we are wrong for not demanding more from our leaders.
/end thread

blaise
09-10-2010, 09:14 AM
And just to relay an exchange we just had in private...

I repped blaise a few minutes ago in her post where she claims orange delights in stories like this: "Poor form."

She reps back: "poor form is given to those that regularly exhibit poor form."

How, exactly, posting the hard truths about American war atrocities is poor form is beyond me. I think it's patriotic to recognize the shitty things we do in conjunction with the positive. Because either have an effect.

"regularly" The word I used was "regularly"
and do you know what else is poor form? Posting rep messages. And I'm a man, sissy.

blaise
09-10-2010, 09:17 AM
Makes sense. blaise holds a grudge like a girl

When did I hold a grudge? orange is pretty much the only poster I don't like.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 09:18 AM
And I'm a man, sissy.

LMAO

Dave Lane
09-10-2010, 09:18 AM
"regularly" The word I used was "regularly"
and do you know what else is poor form? Posting rep messages. And I'm a man, sissy.

So you're a sissy man?

Who knew...

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 09:18 AM
When did I hold a grudge? orange is pretty much the only poster I don't like.

That hurts my feelings.

blaise
09-10-2010, 09:21 AM
That hurts my feelings.

I don't dislike you. orange seems mean spirited, you just seem more naive and nerdy.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 09:24 AM
I don't dislike you. orange seems mean spirited, you just seem more naive and nerdy.

Hey wait a minute! What about me strikes as nerdy?

Baby Lee
09-10-2010, 09:25 AM
"regularly" The word I used was "regularly"
and do you know what else is poor form? Posting rep messages. And I'm a man, sissy.

Goodbye boner. ROFL ROFL

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 09:26 AM
Kinda shoots that intelligent woman theory out the window, too.

Betcha Dave Lane thought he was going to score with that line.

blaise
09-10-2010, 09:28 AM
Goodbye boner. ROFL ROFL

That's kind of funny. I thought you were a girl.

blaise
09-10-2010, 09:29 AM
Hey wait a minute! What about me strikes as nerdy?

Oh dude, come on. You have to know this about yourself.

Baby Lee
09-10-2010, 09:32 AM
That's kind of funny. I thought you were a girl.

You thought there were girls out there as smart as me?

Dave Lane
09-10-2010, 09:33 AM
Kinda shoots that intelligent woman theory out the window, too.

Betcha Dave Lane thought he was going to score with that line.

I'll stand by it either way. Even if he is a sissy man. :) Dude is not a dumb ass like HCF chief Henry, Roy or shit4brains.

stevieray
09-10-2010, 09:41 AM
There is nothing "civilized" about war, no matter how much we try to make it a video game. It impacts people. It makes you savage. You never forget it and you dream about it...sometimes even 40 years later.

Holding on to your humanity while participating in this inhumane endeavor is almost impossible.

I am not a pacifist. Indeed, I fought in a war that was much more "hand to hand" than this one. I killed. And watched buddies die.

It changed me.

There are some folks who enter the military that were psychopaths or narcissists in the civilian world.

And there are some that become that way because of combat.

I was lucky enough to have the genes or moral background or whatever that kept me from committing some of the worst of these crimes. But don't lecture about those who can't.

We placed them there.

It is why I believe that we should have a much deeper conversation about when and where we go to war. It is why congress should ALWAYS declare war before we go. We need that national discussion and not just run haphazard all over the world.

Bush was wrong about Iraq. Obama is wrong about Afghanistan.

And we are wrong for not demanding more from our leaders.

nice slow...

combat is a mother..it can and will screw soldiers up..even good people are scarred for life from what they've seen or experienced...thankfully the number of those who go off the deep end are small compared to the ten of thousands who are put in harms way...none of us know how we will react or respond until we've experienced it...some can't even make it through boot camp...let alone be prepared to take another man's life.

it appears that these crimes were committed in one unit...when you put young men out in the field and are being lead by someone who has lost it..there is no telling what will happen...studies show that in extreme or tragic circumstances...10 percent tell you the right thing to do..80 percent wait to be told what to do..and 10 percent tell you the wrong thing..not only were thse kids scared of dying, they were scared of their own squad leader...friendly fire?..still doesn't excuse those who choose to cross the line of morality and integrity.

difference is..we have and always will hold those accountable for such atrocities...meanwhile our enemies hide behind civilians, and are rarely held accountable for their actions.

there is a big difference between losing control in a combat situation, and killing people whose only determining factor in their resulting death was GOING to work...that includes the people who died in the towers, and the poilicemen & firemen who died trying to save others. to equate the actions of this unit
to people who kill because of an ideology is ludicrous. i highly doubt US soldiers go to war with the idea
that they will turn into monsters, while terroists know damn well what they are doing.

stevieray
09-10-2010, 09:45 AM
There is no hypocrisy. Pro lifers = AQ

you can't be serious.

ROYC75
09-10-2010, 09:54 AM
I'll stand by it either way. Even if he is a sissy man. :) Dude is not a dumb ass like HCF chief Henry, Roy or shit4brains.

WHOA, right out of left field come the talking brainless, Dave Lane.

Not sure how I entered your conversation here, but damn the torpedo's, here's one back ( which usually isn't my style, but since it's Friday and I woke up on the wrong side of bed ) !

ROYC75
09-10-2010, 09:57 AM
There is nothing "civilized" about war, no matter how much we try to make it a video game. It impacts people. It makes you savage. You never forget it and you dream about it...sometimes even 40 years later.

Holding on to your humanity while participating in this inhumane endeavor is almost impossible.

I am not a pacifist. Indeed, I fought in a war that was much more "hand to hand" than this one. I killed. And watched buddies die.

It changed me.

There are some folks who enter the military that were psychopaths or narcissists in the civilian world.

And there are some that become that way because of combat.

I was lucky enough to have the genes or moral background or whatever that kept me from committing some of the worst of these crimes. But don't lecture about those who can't.

We placed them there.

It is why I believe that we should have a much deeper conversation about when and where we go to war. It is why congress should ALWAYS declare war before we go. We need that national discussion and not just run haphazard all over the world.

Bush was wrong about Iraq. Obama is wrong about Afghanistan.

And we are wrong for not demanding more from our leaders.


Well said, I have too seen many of my friends come home from wars in different versions of what they were when they left.

It's brutal in very sense.

Mr. Kotter
09-10-2010, 10:17 AM
.... based on conversations I've had here with him, and reading posts he's made, I don't feel I'm really going out on a limb.
I'll put it this way- I doubt you'll be seeing him link a story about some atrocities committed by soldiers or civilians from another country against the US anytime, so that he can make a topical commentary...

Bingo.

Chief Henry
09-10-2010, 10:54 AM
I'll stand by it either way. Even if he is a sissy man. :) Dude is not a dumb ass like HCF chief Henry, Roy or shit4brains.

Hey big nuts, tell us what your net worth is today ?

We all know how much you've liked to brag about it in the past.

Thanks for the compliment btw. It shows that you and orange must have the same mother but different fathers.

dirk digler
09-10-2010, 11:23 AM
When did I hold a grudge? orange is pretty much the only poster I don't like.

Whoever started the thread about racist on CP. You whined about that for months.

:)

dirk digler
09-10-2010, 11:24 AM
you can't be serious.

I am really really really serious stevie

orange
09-10-2010, 11:24 AM
Bingo.

Why would I need to do that? Do any of those actions ever escape the notice of the HCFs, MCs, FCFs etc.?


p.s. Bad day for you yesterday, wasn't it? Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell don't go anymore. And to top it off, Duke defunding College Republicans. Tsk, tsk.
They're comin' to get ya.

blaise
09-10-2010, 11:31 AM
Whoever started the thread about racist on CP. You whined about that for months.

:)

That was banyon, by the way. I would say it was maybe two weeks, though.
I'll be starting a new grudge against you now, though. Through Halloween at least.

dirk digler
09-10-2010, 11:38 AM
That was banyon, by the way. I would say it was maybe two weeks, though.
I'll be starting a new grudge against you now, though. Through Halloween at least.

I consider myself lucky then because if you were a girl you would hold it for like 10 years.

Frankie
09-10-2010, 11:50 AM
It is not a radical stand to say "Don't build a mosque 500 feet from a place where radical Muslims murdered 3,000 people".

I can't believe I even have to say that. It should be self-evident.

The radical stand I was refering to was how readily and blindly Mikey potrayed Muslims and Islam as a total cult of violence. Your asking for replies sounded like you were supporting that view. As for the location of the Islamic center, I mentioned earlier in this thread that I found it to be of poor taste. At the time though I was not very aware that it is actually a couple of blocks from ground zero and not really on it. Still I would have been happier it the property were a bit farther. If it makes you more at ease

1- By all indications the radical Muslims you mentioned are not involved.

2- Despite the Palin, Hannity, Beck, Rush,...etc., etc., etc., prpaganda the Imam is quite a moderate and educated individual who is trusted by our government to go abroad to promote peace and understanding between religions.

3- This is a community center that 'INCLUDES' a mosque in it as well as prayer areas for Christians and Jews. I would think that's an invitation of fraternity rather than any of the bogus notions that agitators keep perpetuating.

Frankie
09-10-2010, 11:51 AM
I'm an atheist, you liberal idiot.

No doubt a decision you made later in life. It does not change the facts in my post about the environment you grew up in.

BIG_DADDY
09-10-2010, 11:56 AM
I think it's necessary to have a clear-eyed view of the atrocities our rogue soldiers commit with our own taxpayer money. It's irresponsible not to. Kudos orange for a tough, controversial thread about an important topic.

It's more important to post and be aware of stuff like this -- negative stories about soldiers doing dispicable things -- than the positive stories because it's a hard truth, a truth just as necessary as (if not more necessary than) easy truths. There's no social backlash to posting a story about a soldier who saved children. There's intense backlash to posting stories like this, which makes the sheer act of doing so patriotic. Because these terrible stories are just as important to be aware of as the positive stories, but we get so wrapped up in cognitive dissonance that our first impulse is to demonize the guy promoting it.

And orange is promoting it for a very simple argument that people have largely bypassed in favor of ad hominems and righteous indignation about George Tiller for some reason.

You can't judge a population by its crazies. Period. I would agree that there's more crazies in the Middle East than there is in the United States, but that's not because of religion, it's because of vast poverty and desperation. Desperation breeds extremism (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=230462&highlight=palestinian), and just because extremism is more widespread in the Middle East doesn't mean Islam is to blame. Or that it is to be defined by its craziest adherents.

Let's keep in mind that nobody has been prosecuted for anything yet. At this point they are still just allegations.

Frankie
09-10-2010, 11:58 AM
You know what's strange- when George Tiller was shot there were people in this forum ready to condemn the entire pro-life movement......
Judging Muslims based on the actions of a few- bigoted and prejudiced.
Judging Pro Life supporters based on the actions of one- okay.

The Tiller case put on the table the very thing that the "left" was warning about all along. It was a condemnation of the agitations that O'Reilley, et al were doing on your side. It was not against the entire pro-life community but against the agitators among them. Go ahead and rant all you want against Radical Muslim agitators. I'll be on your side. But the two cases you mentioned are not exactly similar.

Mr. Kotter
09-10-2010, 12:09 PM
There is nothing "civilized" about war, no matter how much we try to make it a video game. It impacts people. It makes you savage. You never forget it and you dream about it...sometimes even 40 years later.

Holding on to your humanity while participating in this inhumane endeavor is almost impossible.

I am not a pacifist. Indeed, I fought in a war that was much more "hand to hand" than this one. I killed. And watched buddies die.

It changed me.

There are some folks who enter the military that were psychopaths or narcissists in the civilian world.

And there are some that become that way because of combat.

I was lucky enough to have the genes or moral background or whatever that kept me from committing some of the worst of these crimes. But don't lecture about those who can't.

We placed them there.

It is why I believe that we should have a much deeper conversation about when and where we go to war. It is why congress should ALWAYS declare war before we go. We need that national discussion and not just run haphazard all over the world.

Bush was wrong about Iraq. Obama is wrong about Afghanistan.

And we are wrong for not demanding more from our leaders.

The BEST post I've seen in this cesspool in a very, very long time. Period.

:clap:

stevieray
09-10-2010, 12:17 PM
I am really really really serious stevie

:spock:


wow.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 12:17 PM
Oh dude, come on. You have to know this about yourself.

Quick question: is using weapons to attack the government the same thing as an "armed insurrection"?

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 12:20 PM
Let's keep in mind that nobody has been prosecuted for anything yet. At this point they are still just allegations.

That's fair.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 12:21 PM
The Tiller case put on the table the very thing that the "left" was warning about all along. It was a condemnation of the agitations that O'Reilley, et al were doing on your side. It was not against the entire pro-life community but against the agitators among them. Go ahead and rant all you want against Radical Muslim agitators. I'll be on your side. But the two cases you mentioned are not exactly similar.

Also fair.

The George Tiller case illustrates the perils of pro-life demagoguery.

The liberals here in DC never made the case that it represents the pro-life movement as a whole.

vailpass
09-10-2010, 12:25 PM
Orange showing his self-loathing side today huh?
Guess living in the ghetto is getting him down.
Sucks to be you Orange.

vailpass
09-10-2010, 12:28 PM
There is nothing "civilized" about war, no matter how much we try to make it a video game. It impacts people. It makes you savage. You never forget it and you dream about it...sometimes even 40 years later.

Holding on to your humanity while participating in this inhumane endeavor is almost impossible.

I am not a pacifist. Indeed, I fought in a war that was much more "hand to hand" than this one. I killed. And watched buddies die.

It changed me.

There are some folks who enter the military that were psychopaths or narcissists in the civilian world.

And there are some that become that way because of combat.

I was lucky enough to have the genes or moral background or whatever that kept me from committing some of the worst of these crimes. But don't lecture about those who can't.

We placed them there.

It is why I believe that we should have a much deeper conversation about when and where we go to war. It is why congress should ALWAYS declare war before we go. We need that national discussion and not just run haphazard all over the world.

Bush was wrong about Iraq. Obama is wrong about Afghanistan.

And we are wrong for not demanding more from our leaders.

End of thread.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 12:28 PM
Does this mark the official turning of conservatives against the Iraq War?

vailpass
09-10-2010, 12:29 PM
Does this mark the official turning of conservatives against the Iraq War?

Hey little guy: at what point were you deluded into thinking anyone gives a shit what you say?
Gonna' post a picture in response? Or maybe a link to youtube?

blaise
09-10-2010, 12:38 PM
Quick question: is using weapons to attack the government the same thing as an "armed insurrection"?

I don't know, why?

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 12:39 PM
I don't know, why?

You don't know what an armed insurrection is?

vailpass
09-10-2010, 12:41 PM
America keeps waking up...

blaise
09-10-2010, 12:42 PM
You don't know what an armed insurrection is?

Okay, nope. Now please state your point.

blaise
09-10-2010, 12:43 PM
Also fair.

The George Tiller case illustrates the perils of pro-life demagoguery.

The liberals here in DC never made the case that it represents the pro-life movement as a whole.

You don't think any liberals said it reflects on the pro-life movement as a whole?

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 12:50 PM
Okay, nope. Now please state your point.

I don't really have a point other than being astonished that you don't understand what an armed insurrection is. Holy shit.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 12:51 PM
You don't think any liberals said it reflects on the pro-life movement as a whole?

Already addressed that, nitwit. Post 78.

That there are armies of liberals trying to say George Tiller's murderer is the perfect representation of all pro-lifers?

I have not found a single post on this board that's said such a thing. So you're not going to hold my feet to the fire, or the feet of any other liberal that posts on this forum, for the actions of the Democratic Underground.

However, on this board, you do have swaths of people that associate Islam with the extremists. Frequently.

I mean, I'll agree with you on treating Tiller's murderer as a representation of all pro-lifers. Just like I'll agree with you that Ronald McDonald shouldn't be treated as a representation of all clowns. Because neither one of those arguments have been made on this board.

vailpass
09-10-2010, 12:54 PM
You don't think any liberals said it reflects on the pro-life movement as a whole?

Engaging in some midget tossing blaise?

blaise
09-10-2010, 12:55 PM
I don't really have a point other than being astonished that you don't understand what an armed insurrection is. Holy shit.

No, I understand the difference, apparently you don't because you feel compelled to have me sign off on a definition before you make whatever point it is you're trying to make.
So, feel free to make a point anytime, instead of crying about it in various threads.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 12:57 PM
No, I understand the difference, apparently you don't because you feel compelled to have me sign off on a definition before you make whatever point it is you're trying to make.
So, feel free to make a point anytime, instead of crying about it in various threads.

What's the difference?

I need to know. Tell me the difference between an armed insurrection and using weapons to attack the government.

I'm sure it's a canyon of difference.

blaise
09-10-2010, 12:58 PM
What's the difference?

I need to know. Tell me the difference between an armed insurrection and using weapons to attack the government.

I'm sure it's a canyon of difference.

Nope, no difference, now please state your point.

blaise
09-10-2010, 01:01 PM
By the way, I notice Direckshun is getting quicker with the name calling. I think he's getting sensitive to growing sentiment against Obama. It's okay, little guy. I know it's tough when your hero has some tough times.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 01:05 PM
Nope, no difference, now please state your point.

DING DING DING

Three months later, and blaise finally admits that they are the same thing.

Wouldn't do it when we were talking about Sharron Angle (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=229556&highlight=sharron&page=2). Accused me of distorting what she said. "She never said armed insurrection, she was suggesting people might use weapons to attack the government!"

But you've finally come around, now that I've let that discussion pass out of your memory, to admitting I was right. If only you had done it three months ago we might have had ourselves a productive conversation.

Welcome to Earth, blaise. We've missed you.

:thumb:

BucEyedPea
09-10-2010, 01:09 PM
DING DING DING

Three months later, and blaise finally admits that they are the same thing.

Wouldn't do it when we were talking about Sharron Angle (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=229556&highlight=sharron&page=2). Accused me of distorting what she said. "She never said armed insurrection, she was suggesting people might use weapons to attack the government!"


What exactly was the American Revolution then? Why is Angle any different from back then? Please re-read the Declaration of Independence.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 01:14 PM
POOR FORM IS GIVEN TO THOSE THAT REGULARLY EXHIBIT POOR FORM LMAO

SNR
09-10-2010, 01:17 PM
Are we talking about abortion now?

See ya guys. This thread was fun while it lasted

vailpass
09-10-2010, 01:17 PM
By the way, I notice Direckshun is getting quicker with the name calling. I think he's getting sensitive to growing sentiment against Obama. It's okay, little guy. I know it's tough when your hero has some tough times.

I'm getting the feeling direckshun uses this bb as a social outlet as though he were a shut-in, invalid, or very lonely.
It creeps me out how seriously he takes this place.

blaise
09-10-2010, 01:23 PM
POOR FORM IS GIVEN TO THOSE THAT REGULARLY EXHIBIT POOR FORM LMAO

Wow, dude. You're really acting like a bitch today. Obama got you rattled huh? Didn't you make a bet with someone that if he loses reelection you'll leave this forum forever? Getting a little nervous, sport?

stevieray
09-10-2010, 01:25 PM
Wow, dude. You're really acting like a bitch today. Obama got you rattled huh? Didn't you make a bet with someone that if he loses reelection you'll leave this forum forever? Getting a little nervous, sport?
today?

you're too kind.

blaise
09-10-2010, 01:26 PM
All of Direckshun's Obama plates and spoons are losing value every day.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 01:30 PM
Wow, dude. You're really acting like a bitch today. Obama got you rattled huh? Didn't you make a bet with someone that if he loses reelection you'll leave this forum forever? Getting a little nervous, sport?

I just love how time brought you around to being sensible again.

I'm sure it will be no time before you revert to dumbassery for the simple sake of avoiding having to agree with me. Had to be a tragic experience, I'm sure. Water may never taste the same in this Big New World.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 01:30 PM
I'm getting the feeling direckshun uses this bb as a social outlet as though he were a shut-in, invalid, or very lonely.
It creeps me out how seriously he takes this place.

All of Direckshun's Obama plates and spoons are losing value every day.

today?

you're too kind.

LET THE PILE ON COMMENCE

I heard Direckshun has a vagina. Maybe we should run with that...

blaise
09-10-2010, 01:31 PM
POOR FORM IS GIVEN TO THOSE THAT REGULARLY EXHIBIT POOR FORM LMAO

When did SHT change his name again?

blaise
09-10-2010, 01:32 PM
LET THE PILE ON COMMENCE

I heard Direckshun has a vagina. Maybe we should run with that...

So, who started with the name calling again?

Iowanian
09-10-2010, 01:32 PM
Pink for the children of Al Queda

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 01:34 PM
So, who started with the name calling again?

I did, dumbass. Got a fucking problem with that?

Stop being a waste of intellectual property and I'll consider toning it down.

stevieray
09-10-2010, 01:35 PM
LET THE PILE ON COMMENCE

I heard Direckshun has a vagina. Maybe we should run with that...
and now the victim ploy begins...you were great in the vid with Gov. Christie.

blaise
09-10-2010, 01:38 PM
I did, dumbass. Got a ****ing problem with that?

Stop being a waste of intellectual property and I'll consider toning it down.

So, you started calling names and then proceeded to cry about name calling?
Poor Direckshun, so confused today!
Go have some nice applesauce from your Obama plate and watch a recording of the inauguration again. You'll feel much better. Mmkay, all star?
And, quite honestly, I don't think that many people here think I'm a waste of intellectual property. Unless, of course, what you mean is that I'm wasting my intellect debating an obvious crybaby such as yourself.

Iowanian
09-10-2010, 01:39 PM
We expect more from our troops than the rest of the world, but it's not like these guys invented this practice.

War has always been barbaric and many, many cultures have used excess barbarism to convey to their enemies that they should not be trifled with in future conflict.

Many Native Americans took scalps long before American troops existed, Romans, Persians, Mongols and culture after culture after culture since the dawn of time have done these things. It doesn't make it right but lets not act like a few American troops, who went through God knows what to develop this level of hate for Afghans are worse than the Hutu/Tootsies, or the car bombing, beheading Muslim hoards.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 01:43 PM
So, you started calling names and then proceeded to cry about name calling?
Poor Direckshun, so confused today!

The difference is, it's unfair to accuse orange of taking delight in stories like the one in the OP.

While it's completely fair to call you a dumbass, because you're not a smart person.

And, quite honestly, I don't think that many people here think I'm a waste of intellectual property. Unless, of course, what you mean is that I'm wasting my intellect debating an obvious crybaby such as yourself.

Based on what we've just exposed, you're either a waste of intellectual property or you're a petty bitch, blaise. Pick one.

blaise
09-10-2010, 01:53 PM
The difference is, it's unfair to accuse orange of taking delight in stories like the one in the OP.

While it's completely fair to call you a dumbass, because you're not a smart person.



Based on what we've just exposed, you're either a waste of intellectual property or you're a petty bitch, blaise. Pick one.

Oh my goodness, I think Direckshun is actually crying real tears. I think the only exposure here is that you're acting like a child having a hissy fit. I mean, look at you posting the positive rep I left you with the little emoticon. A few bad polls and Direckshun turns right into SHT, it seems.
But, buck up little buckaroo! Tomorrow is another day! Kay, pardner?

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 01:57 PM
Oh my goodness, I think Direckshun is actually crying real tears.

Buddy, I'll give you whatever real estate you need to save face, but I think just about anybody would admit you just got depantsed with the Sharron Angle shit.

blaise
09-10-2010, 01:59 PM
Buddy, I'll give you whatever real estate you need to save face, but I think just about anybody would admit you just got depantsed with the Sharron Angle shit.

I don't think so, buddy. And I'll go one step further. I think the more you post today, the more like a whiny little child you appear.
So, Sharron Angle never said she supported or endorsed an armed insurrection, did she?
Still waiting.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 02:01 PM
I don't think so, buddy. And I'll go one step further. I think the more you post today, the more like a whiny little child you appear.
So, Sharron Angle never said she supported or endorsed an armed insurrection, did she?
Still waiting.

We've already had this conversation.

Three months ago.

You're waiting for no reason.

blaise
09-10-2010, 02:03 PM
We've already had this conversation.

Three months ago.

You're waiting for no reason.

Weird, it's almost the reverse of the conversation you kept bringing up when you cried that I wouldn't answer a question. That's weird, huh, because you won't answer my question now? So weird. And it seems like you keep getting more and more emotional.
Take a breather, lil buddy. I know you get worked up.

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 02:06 PM
Weird, it's almost the reverse of the conversation you kept bringing up when you cried that I wouldn't answer a question. That's weird, huh, because you won't answer my question now? So weird. And it seems like you keep getting more and more emotional.
Take a breather, lil buddy. I know you get worked up.

The difference is, I answered the question that you're asking me.

Three.

Months.

Ago.

BucEyedPea
09-10-2010, 02:12 PM
No one has to answer anyone's questions. Geezaz!

blaise
09-10-2010, 02:17 PM
The difference is, I answered the question that you're asking me.

Three.

Months.

Ago.

And the answer is what?

Direckshun
09-10-2010, 02:18 PM
And the answer is what?

Read the thread.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=229556

blaise
09-10-2010, 02:28 PM
Read the thread.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=229556

No thanks. Yes or no will suffice. That's what you've been doing with me for months, right? Demanding I answer your pedantic questions?
So, please answer, unless you feel you can demand that from others while exempting yourself.
Did Sharron Angle ever say she supported or endorsed any kind of violent behavior or insurrection against the government?

Dave Lane
09-10-2010, 03:24 PM
It doesn't make it right but lets not act like a few American troops, who went t hrough God knows what to develop this level of hate for Afghans are worse than the Hutu/Tootsies, or the car bombing, beheading Muslim hoards.

There is always going to be crazys on each side ours and theirs. I think the point is don't be in such a rush to paint every Muslim with the crazy brush unless you want to do the same for Americans.

I've been to the middle east as a visitor several times and was treated like a rock star. I had Muslims stop me in the street and tell me they thought America was awesome and thank you. When I went to Greek as Bush was leaving office a lot of that had changed and I wouldn't even publically admit I was an American after having Greek nationals spit on me for being a Bush lover, which I was anything but.

Radar Chief
09-10-2010, 03:31 PM
There is always going to be crazys on each side ours and theirs. I think the point is don't be in such a rush to paint every Muslim with the crazy brush unless you want to do the same for Americans.

I've been to the middle east as a visitor several times and was treated like a rock star. I had Muslims stop me in the street and tell me they thought America was awesome and thank you. When I went to Greek as Bush was leaving office a lot of that had changed and I wouldn't even publically admit I was an American after having Greek nationals spit on me for being a Bush lover, which I was anything but.

I've been to Greece. Participated in a live fire exercise there.
Greeks didn't care much for us in 1990 either, FYI.

Frankie
09-10-2010, 03:41 PM
Bush was wrong about Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama is stuck with Afghanistan.

FYP

Dave Lane
09-10-2010, 03:42 PM
They really really didn't like Bush. There were fuck US and fuck Bush spray painted on buildings everywhere.

I kept telling people it was nice of them to point out where their whore houses were. I figured fuck us must be some kinda advertising campaign. :)

Frankie
09-10-2010, 03:43 PM
Goodbye boner. ROFL ROFL

ROFL

mlyonsd
09-10-2010, 03:44 PM
They really really didn't like Bush. There were **** US and **** Bush spray painted on buildings everywhere.

I kept telling people it was nice of them to point out where their whore houses were. I figured **** us must be some kinda advertising campaign. :)

I bet they love Obama since he's using their government as a model for the future.

Chief Henry
09-10-2010, 03:47 PM
[QUOTE=oldandslow;6991020]

Bush was wrong about Iraq. Obama is wrong about Afghanistan and America is stuck with Obama.

[QUOTE]




I had to refix your quote.

SNR
09-10-2010, 03:53 PM
Can I just say that I can't WAIT to check this forum tomorrow to see what kind of explosion/military carnage video from Iraq/Afghanistan is posted to "commemorate the anniversary of 9/11"?

Happens every year and every year it's fucking disgusting to see people masturbating to that shit.

Iowanian
09-10-2010, 03:59 PM
Can I just say that I can't WAIT to check this forum tomorrow to see what kind of explosion/military carnage video from Iraq/Afghanistan is posted to "commemorate the anniversary of 9/11"?

Happens every year and every year it's ****ing disgusting to see people masturbating to that shit.

Who in the **** are you to judge how other people choose to deal with that attack?

Maybe you can go find a culturally sensitive circle jerk and sing Kumbaya or something instead.

vailpass
09-10-2010, 04:01 PM
I did, dumbass. Got a ****ing problem with that?

Stop being a waste of intellectual property and I'll consider toning it down.

ROFL Look at pussy boy. Hey junior, get yourself a step stool so we can go at it eye-to-eye.
Punk.

SNR
09-10-2010, 04:05 PM
Who in the Fuck are you to judge how other people choose to deal with that attack?"Deal with the attack". Unless you or a loved one were in NYC close to Ground Zero on that day, I don't see the emotional healing that you're still having to go through after nine years.

And if you DID lose a loved one/have emotional scarring, what better way to heal than to wish violence on people? It's totally the Christian thing to do.

Who am I to judge? I'm my own person with my own ascribed ethics. And I say it's wrong.

If it makes you feel any better, I promise to stay out of any terrorist-raping video threads tomorrow. Just so you can feel better about not being judged by a stranger on the internet.

Iowanian
09-10-2010, 04:08 PM
I won't be posting any of that, but you can still kiss my ass.

Cee Lo Green has recently crafted a video of my responses intent.

BucEyedPea
09-10-2010, 04:51 PM
Can I just say that I can't WAIT to check this forum tomorrow to see what kind of explosion/military carnage video from Iraq/Afghanistan is posted to "commemorate the anniversary of 9/11"?

Happens every year and every year it's ****ing disgusting to see people masturbating to that shit.

Some Conservatives are questioning things. Good article in this conservative mag about this.