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AirForceChief
09-11-2010, 11:51 AM
Well written, even handed article from Bob Gretz:

There’s one thing that Matt Cassel knows, and if he doesn’t then somebody should give him the information.

Len Dawson was booed by Chiefs fans. Terry Bradshaw was booed by Steelers fans. John Elway was booed by Broncos fans. Insert name of Hall of Fame quarterback and he was booed by fans of the insert name team he played for during his career.

There were some Chiefs fans back in the day that believed Dawson didn’t take enough chances with his passes, that he threw short dinks and dunks and that he did not go down the field as much as he could have, especially since he was calling the plays. His career completion percentage of 57.1 percent, his career average of 7.7 yards per attempt and his 237 TD passes to 178 interceptions look like pretty good numbers now.

But in the day, some Chiefs followers were unhappy and they let Dawson know it, firing verbal assaults from the stands at both Municipal and Arrowhead Stadiums.

That’s a simple fact of life for an NFL starting quarterback. The scene gets played out over and over around the league. Guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have escaped it so far, but their careers are not over yet. They still have plenty of opportunities to throw interceptions or badly timed incompletions that will raise the vocal hackles of their fan base.

Cassel reiterated the other day that he does not read papers, watch TV sports or listen to sports talk radio. I’m sure he doesn’t spend any time on Internet sites or web forums.

“I just try to block it out,” Cassel said this week. “That is something that goes along with this job. You are always going to be tested and there is always going to be scrutiny and there is always going to be somebody saying, ‘hey, he is not good enough. He can’t do this, he can’t do that.’

“I have a job to do and right now my job is to be the quarterback of this team. I am going to go out and work hard and do everything I need to do to be productive on the field.”

If one were to take the denunciations of Cassel that have poured forth through all those media portals that he does not pay attention to, then one could make the assumption Cassel and his position as the team’s starting quarterback engenders no confidence in the Chiefs and the team’s future.

But caution should prevail in making that leap. Some unimpressed media types and a few callers to sports talk radio or posters to Internet sites do not constitute a majority of Chiefs fans. Not everyone has written him off after 15 starts for the team. While it might be more accurate to say he has not been embraced by the Chiefs Nation as a whole, it’s a stretch to paint him as the latest failure among franchise quarterbacks.

Chiefs fans for decades now have screamed and complained about the team not drafting and developing their own quarterback. Based on some of the reaction to Cassel, it’s obvious those who bled red and gold would have no more patience with a young guy than an inexperienced quarterback who came from another team. They would chew him up and spit him out in a matter of years.

And that’s the pisser in this whole thing. No position on the field requires more patience in developing a contributing player than quarterback. In fact all the other positions combined may not require the patience needed to find that franchise quarterback. Yet, it’s the position where the media, fans and even the teams struggle to deal with growth and development. It takes time to become a good quarterback, but impatience generally stops the clock dead in its tracks.

The other day Todd Haley said that as far as he’s concerned no spot on the roster is ranks ahead of another. “The inside backer in the base defense is no more important than a gunner on the punt team,” Haley said. “The more our guys think that way, the better for us.”

It’s all well and good if that kind of thinking can be created within a locker room. But everybody in that room knows, as does the head coach and his staff, the GM and his staff and the ownership family, that there is one player that IS more important, and that’s the starting quarterback.

Whether he’s a so-called franchise QB, a care-taker, a game-manager, a rookie thrown to the wolves or a grizzled veteran playing out his final NFL days, the starting quarterback is the most important player on any pro football team. No other player has a greater effect on winning or losing than the guy taking the snaps.

Consider this for a moment – Todd Haley was willing to jettison his offensive coordinator last year just 10 days before the start of the regular season because he knew the situation wasn’t going to work with Chan Gailey. Do you think if Haley thought for a minute that Cassel wasn’t up to the task, that the only quarterback the Chiefs added in the off-season would have been Tyler Palko?

Asked for areas where he’s seen improvement from his starting quarterback and Haley gets pretty vague. But Friday he identified an area that while simple, is one of the most important elements for the success of a starting quarterback.

“When he comes off the field, what he says he saw generally ends up being what it was,” Haley said. “I think that’s a real good quality to have. Even subtle things within a game, you’ll say to him why did you do this, and he’ll say this linebacker did this, the receiver stumbled, or that receiver was short, the safety did this.

“Generally it’s pretty spot on what he sees. He sees the whole field. That was something that Kurt (Warner) was phenomenal at. A quarterback has to have great vision. Matt sees what’s happening.”

Today’s game is built around the quarterbacks, and the teams that have great ones do everything they can to keep them and provide them with weapons. Those that don’t have the top-line quarterbacks are constantly searching for a player who can play the position well enough that he’s not an impediment to winning.

These are all facts of football life. Head coaches and the quarterbacks themselves know it better than anybody, but they seldom will address or recognize that point in public. The pressure is tough enough without adding more fuel to the fire with your own hose.

That’s why if you’ve listened to any of Cassel’s press conferences over the last two seasons you know that they were filled with clichés, pat and rehearsed answers, and few moments of real insight of him, the position or the team. That’s all done on purpose. Cassel can’t do anything about his name being in the headlines, but he can make sure it’s not there because of something that came out of his mouth.

Still, every so often a bit of the real Cassel leaks out. The competitor in him sneaks out of the cage and makes an appearance before he’s coaxed back into the shadows. It happened this week when Cassel was asked if he likes to prove critics wrong.

“It is always nice to have that happen but at the same time, I don’t play this game for the people that are against me and think that I can’t do it,” said Cassel. “I play the game for the people that have always believed in me. I play that game for my family, for my wife, for my mother so it really comes down to that. There are going to be people, no matter where you go or what you do, there are going to be people who look at you and say, ‘you can’t do it’.”

The tone of his voice, the jut of his jaw and the fire in his eyes as he answered the question gave away the fact that while it’s not the No. 1 motivating factor for him, the chance to show everyone he can be a successful NFL quarterback – including the naysayers – is part of what drives him.

At this point in time, we don’t know where Matt Cassel’s future will take him or the Chiefs. There have been flashes of talent and skill that indicate he has some of the necessary qualities. There have also been moments when his failures have indicated he’s not nearly consistent enough right now to lead a team to a winning season.

That’s what makes the Monday night game against San Diego so important. It’s a benchmark for the team, but especially for Cassel. Last year, the Chargers rolled into Arrowhead Stadium in October and embarrassed the Chiefs and made Cassel look very bad. San Diego won by 30 points and Cassel completed just 10 of 25 passes (40 percent) for 97 yards (3.88 yards per attempt), one TD and three interceptions. It produced a passer rating of 25.3, one of his lowest ratings of the season and his 30 games as an NFL starting quarterback.

Cassel did not get much in the way of help in that first meeting with the Chargers. He was sacked five times, the offense generated just 203 total yards and Bobby Wade was the leading receiver, catching four passes for 66 yards.

The second time the teams met last season was not much better, as the Chargers won by 29 points in San Diego. Cassel was marginally better, hitting 19 of 31 passes (61.3 percent) for 178 yards (5.74 yards per attempt), one TD and one interception.

“Once you start winning ball games and you start playing well and the team starts playing well that takes care of itself,” Cassel said.

Monday night is but one leg of a 16-segment marathon for the Chiefs and Cassel. As he was quick to say the other day, “It is week one of 16 games. I don’t think this is our Super Bowl,” Cassel said.

But it’s a huge night for Matt Cassel, because it’s a huge season for him. He must establish that he has the consistency and the ability to lead the Chiefs to winning performances. The time is now.

Pawnmower
09-11-2010, 11:52 AM
inb4 "its a process"

DeezNutz
09-11-2010, 11:56 AM
Do you think if Haley thought for a minute that Cassel wasn’t up to the task, that the only quarterback the Chiefs added in the off-season would have been Tyler Palko?

Laughable logic.

Crush
09-11-2010, 11:58 AM
The Process by Stephen King

Like all of King's books, the ending is going to suck.
Posted via Mobile Device

Rain Man
09-11-2010, 12:00 PM
We've been going vanilla to hide the unparalleled incredibleness that will soon come to be known as "Offense on Speed". This is that moment where the rocket hasn't started moving yet, but the smoke from the thrusters is starting to billow out around it. Godspeed, Matt Cassel, and we'll see you on splashdown in Canton.

KCUnited
09-11-2010, 12:01 PM
Cassel completed 3 passes for 7 yards in the time it took to read that.

DJ's left nut
09-11-2010, 12:10 PM
WTF is 'evenhanded' about that slurp-job?

Comparing Matt Cassel to Len Dawson or Joe Montana in an attempt to soften the blow of 70,000 people calling him a bum is pathetic.

Matt Cassel is a Piece of Shit ©.

Brock
09-11-2010, 12:14 PM
I sure hope I'm wrong.

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 12:15 PM
Easily the worst article by Gretz since Peterson's firing.

What a load of horseshit.

Marcellus
09-11-2010, 12:20 PM
I agree with Gretz that this fan base would have little patience with a rookie QB.

I know Cassel is not a rookie, bla,bla, bla but he has really only had 2 seasons as a starter and everybody already knows they have him figured out at what his ceiling is, me included.

If we drafted a rookie he better make the PB by year 3 or he will be getting the Cassel treatment from half the fans and would be getting the Croyle treatment from the other half.

FYI- Croyle treatment equals pining for and exaggerating the skills of a guy who has never shown anything special on the field but is loved simply because he is a QB and we drafted him.

DJ's left nut
09-11-2010, 12:20 PM
Easily the worst article by Gretz since Peterson's firing.

What a load of horseshit.

What? You don't find nuggets like this piece of overwritten trash to be 'even-handed'?

The tone of his voice, the jut of his jaw and the fire in his eyes as he answered the question gave away the fact that while it’s not the No. 1 motivating factor for him, the chance to show everyone he can be a successful NFL quarterback – including the naysayers – is part of what drives him.

That's arguably as bad as any article I have ever seen.

DeezNutz
09-11-2010, 12:24 PM
Ironically, Petro was killing Cassel yesterday for being a bitch in pressers. Suggested that this was a window into his demeanor in the huddle.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-11-2010, 12:24 PM
Blah, blah, blah. Some people are supportive of him, some are wanting to hang him right now. All this talk is pointless, both that are for him and against him. We won't really know until the season plays out if he's got franchise credentials or not. Period.

DJ's left nut
09-11-2010, 12:25 PM
If we drafted a rookie he better make the PB by year 3 or he will be getting the Cassel treatment from half the fans and would be getting the Croyle treatment from the other half.


"And I know this based on the time we drafted....well...well there was that time that...but...shit"

I'm so tired of hearing this - we haven't made a strong bet on a young quarterback in 25 years --- A QUARTER OF A CENTURY --- and I'm supposed to listen to someone tell me that the fans wouldn't give one a chance.

Just exactly WTF do you base that on?

It's all CYA all the time with this guy. Cassel's terrible and THAT'S why the fans boo him. He's inaccurate, he's skittish, he's flat out bad.

If this franchise ever drafted and developed a young quarterback, he would be the most popular KC sports figure since George Brett. Kansas City is dying for a quarterback and jokers like you and Gretz are still hiding behind the same tired dogma that Peterson hamstrung the franchise with for 2 decades.

Sure-Oz
09-11-2010, 12:25 PM
What? You don't find nuggets like this piece of overwritten trash to be 'even-handed'?



That's arguably as bad as any article I have ever seen.

LOL Cassel looks like a deer with headlights flashed at him....

DeezNutz
09-11-2010, 12:26 PM
We won't really know until the season plays out if he's got franchise credentials or not. Period.

We know this now.

What we don't know is whether or not he'll end up being serviceable.

Rain Man
09-11-2010, 12:28 PM
I sure hope the Cassel thing is like when Trent Green first showed up, before he had all of his weapons in place.

Bane
09-11-2010, 12:29 PM
I sure hope the Cassel thing is like when Trent Green first showed up, before he had all of his weapons in place.

I keep wanting to think the same thing,but deep down,I think we all know better.

Marcellus
09-11-2010, 12:29 PM
"And I know this based on the time we drafted....well...well there was that time that...but...shit"

I'm so tired of hearing this - we haven't made a strong bet on a young quarterback in 25 years --- A QUARTER OF A CENTURY --- and I'm supposed to listen to someone tell me that the fans wouldn't give one a chance.

Just exactly WTF do you base that on?

It's all CYA all the time with this guy. Cassel's terrible and THAT'S why the fans boo him. He's inaccurate, he's skittish, he's flat out bad.

If this franchise ever drafted and developed a young quarterback, he would be the most popular KC sports figure since George Brett. Kansas City is dying for a quarterback and jokers like you and Gretz are still hiding behind the same tired dogma that Peterson hamstrung the franchise with for 2 decades.

First off, I never said or eluded that I was against drafting a QB.

How do I know the fans would be impatient? Because I have been a member of CP since 2003.

JohnnyV13
09-11-2010, 12:33 PM
Yeah, that's hardly a well written article: no matter what you think of the content. Look at the lead.

That's a terrible, rambling sentance that hardly draws a reader into the article. Gretz writes conversationally, with a lot of fluffy qualifiers and awkwardly constructed sentances.

I doubt even he would say its a good example of his work.

Rain Man
09-11-2010, 12:35 PM
I keep wanting to think the same thing,but deep down,I think we all know better.

If Pioli hadn't seen Cassel in action I'd be more pessimistic. As it is, I'm worried, but still have some hope. Pioli had to know that trading for Cassel and passing on a top draftee would be a key decision, so you'd think he wouldn't do it without a whole lot of confidence in Cassel.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-11-2010, 12:35 PM
We know this now.

What we don't know is whether or not he'll end up being serviceable.

No, we don't. We haven't seen anything yet and won't until the season plays out. Odds are, with our luck, he won't be shit. But we won't know for sure until the season plays out. People can be geniousez with their nostradomous skills and say "oh I noz already hez da blacklegdde!" but we won't until the season plays out. It's fun though, that's why we're fans, we go by feeling. My gut feeling says even Haley doesn't think he'll work out. You can hear it in his voice in his pressers. He has NO confidence in the guy. He's just all we have. Until next year. If he doesn't work out.

DJ's left nut
09-11-2010, 12:35 PM
First off, I never said or eluded that I was against drafting a QB.

How do I know the fans would be impatient? Because I have been a member of CP since 2003.

CP has fewer than 700 members with more than 1,000 posts at present (and a handful with over 40,000). It's a limited group of extremely hardcore fans.

I would hardly say that CP constitutes any sort of representative sample of the fanbase.

That's like saying the Branch Davidians were an accurate representation of your average Protestant.

This article was beyond worthless.

the Talking Can
09-11-2010, 12:36 PM
That's pretty much the Bible of True Fan-ism right there...


holy shit

1...invoke the name of every great QB, imply false equivalence
2...pretend fans are responsible for a franchise never drafting a QB, because they have the audacity to boo shitty quarterbacks on shitty teams

3...don't spend one sentence actually focusing on his play on the field, his mechanics, his arm, his savy, his ANYTHING -no detailed breakdown of his actual performance

4...make another false comparison - 'he done some bad things and some good things' - which is a whitewash of point 3 and a knowing lie. he's done a bunch of shitty things and very few good things

5...pat yourself on the back for being so smart and go get a glass of milk and watch Touched By An Angel reruns while reminiscing fondly about that one game Damon Huard won that one time...it was fun, gosh...

DeezNutz
09-11-2010, 12:39 PM
No, we don't. We haven't seen anything yet and won't until the season plays out. Odds are, with our luck, he won't be shit. But we won't know for sure until the season plays out. People can be geniousez with their nostradomous skills and say "oh I noz already hez da blacklegdde!" but we won't until the season plays out. It's fun though, that's why we're fans, we go by feeling. My gut feeling says even Haley doesn't think he'll work out. You can hear it in his voice in his pressers. He has NO confidence in the guy. He's just all we have. Until next year. If he doesn't work out.

He's not going to develop, magically, an entirely different skill set. Thus, it doesn't take Doc Brown to know that he'll never be a franchise QB. Any half-ass evaluator of NFL talent can tell this.

What we don't know for sure is whether or not he'll be a colossal failure. Luckily, we hired a great turd polisher in Weis, so expect some dumbass fans to think that the piece of shit is prettier this year.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-11-2010, 12:41 PM
That's pretty much the Bible of True Fan-ism right there...


holy shit

1...invoke the name of every great QB, imply false equivalence
2...pretend fans are responsible for a franchise never drafting a QB, because they have the audacity to boo shitty quarterbacks on shitty teams

3...don't spend one sentence actually focusing on his play on the field, his mechanics, his arm, his savy, his ANYTHING -no detailed breakdown of his actual performance

4...make another false comparison - 'he done some bad things and some good things' - which is a whitewash of point 3 and a knowing lie. he's done a bunch of shitty things and very few good things

5...pat yourself on the back for being so smart and go get a glass of milk and watch Touched By An Angel reruns while reminiscing fondly about that one game Damon Huard won that one time...it was fun, gosh...

The only people I know of that are Chiefs fans that don't want to draft a QB high are the people on this site, none outside of this site. Kinda odd.

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 12:41 PM
First off, I never said or eluded that I was against drafting a QB.

How do I know the fans would be impatient? Because I have been a member of CP since 2003.

WRONG.

The overwhelming majority of Chiefsplanet members have supported a first round QB.

Anyone that knows a fucking thing about the NFL and QB's in general realize that it's very rare that a rookie QB is ready to start from Day One.

If the Chiefs had drafted a QB last year or even this year, developed him for a couple of years while Cassel (or someone else started), I seriously doubt many people would complain.

Bane
09-11-2010, 12:42 PM
If Pioli hadn't seen Cassel in action I'd be more pessimistic. As it is, I'm worried, but still have some hope. Pioli had to know that trading for Cassel and passing on a top draftee would be a key decision, so you'd think he wouldn't do it without a whole lot of confidence in Cassel.

Well he surely knows more about him than anyone else,but I just wonder how long he will "wait" for Cassel if he continues to struggle this year.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-11-2010, 12:44 PM
He's not going to develop, magically, an entirely different skill set. Thus, it doesn't take Doc Brown to know that he'll never be a franchise QB. Any half-ass evaluator of NFL talent can tell this.

What we don't know for sure is whether or not he'll be a colossal failure. Luckily, we hired a great turd polisher in Weis, so expect some dumbass fans to think that the piece of shit is prettier this year.

I'm going by Pioli. I trust his evaluation of talent. He's had his misses, like every GM, etc. This probably is a miss, but because of his reputation I'm willling to wait and see. Either way, it will be a fun season, IMO, to watch the young guys grow.

CrazyHorse
09-11-2010, 12:44 PM
Easily the worst article by Gretz since Peterson's firing.

What a load of horseshit.


How'd I know your reaction? LOL

The article was not only reasonable from an expectation standpoint, it paints the witch hunters in the right light as well. I cant think of any clear thinking individual that would find this article unreasonable.

the Talking Can
09-11-2010, 12:45 PM
I've said over and over again that it would ideal for our mythic first round pick to shit on the bench for a year....even stafford


that's why stashing Claussen on the bench behind Cassel....for a 2nd rounder was such a god damn no brainer, even if he sat 2-3 three years


this lie true fans tell about people being impatient is a projection...True Fans would be impatient because they want revenge for being called true fans while supporting one shitty QB after another....

people with an ounce of god damn sense know a guy coming straight from college takes time....

Chiefs Pantalones
09-11-2010, 12:46 PM
WRONG.

The overwhelming majority of Chiefsplanet members have supported a first round QB.

Anyone that knows a ****ing thing about the NFL and QB's in general realize that it's very rare that a rookie QB is ready to start from Day One.

If the Chiefs had drafted a QB last year or even this year, developed him for a couple of years while Cassel (or someone else started), I seriously doubt many people would complain.

Seriously? You know better than that man. The fans on this site are ruthless lol. They would be like "how come he hasn't seen anytime, does he suck or something?!" Come on. :)

DJ's left nut
09-11-2010, 12:46 PM
How'd I know your reaction? LOL

The article was not only reasonable from an expectation standpoint, it paints the witch hunters in the right light as well. I cant think of any clear thinking individual that would find this article unreasonable.

The tone of his voice, the jut of his jaw and the fire in his eyes as he answered the question gave away the fact that while it’s not the No. 1 motivating factor for him, the chance to show everyone he can be a successful NFL quarterback – including the naysayers – is part of what drives him.

Totally reasonable.

Not breathless hyperbole at all.

This article was garbage.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-11-2010, 12:47 PM
I've said over and over again that it would ideal for our mythic first round pick to shit on the bench for a year....even stafford


that's why stashing Claussen on the bench behind Cassel....for a 2nd rounder was such a god damn no brainer, even if he sat 2-3 three years


this lie true fans tell about people being impatient is a projection...True Fans would be impatient because they want revenge for being called true fans while supporting one shitty QB after another....

people with an ounce of god damn sense know a guy coming straight from college takes time....

That's what I'm saying. People wouldn't be happy at all. They'd want him to start in April.

Ralphy Boy
09-11-2010, 12:47 PM
I keep wanting to think the same thing,but deep down,I think we all know better.

This. God knows I want Cassel to be good. I want him to prove us all wrong, but there is nothing about him to date that has shown he ever will.

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 12:48 PM
Seriously? You know better than that man. The fans on this site are ruthless lol. They would be like "how come he hasn't seen anytime, does he suck or something?!" Come on. :)

I tend to ignore the dumbasses, especially any dumbass that would be upset about a first round QB.

CrazyHorse
09-11-2010, 12:56 PM
WRONG.

The overwhelming majority of Chiefsplanet members have supported a first round QB.

Anyone that knows a ****ing thing about the NFL and QB's in general realize that it's very rare that a rookie QB is ready to start from Day One.

If the Chiefs had drafted a QB last year or even this year, developed him for a couple of years while Cassel (or someone else started), I seriously doubt many people would complain.

Without a doubt the self proclaimed chiefsplanets "talent evaluators" are not equiped to let talent be developed. Whether it be Dorsey, Jackson, or this year we have people already talking about Mcluster. Chiefesplanet will always label thier busts in the 1st few games of the season, if not the preseason. Its comical intil you have to listen to it in every thead for a season or 2. Then they move on to the next axe grinding. Its less about evaluation skill and more about personality short comings really.

You know what I haven't heard in awhile? How great a "franchise" QB Sanchez is gonna be.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-11-2010, 12:56 PM
I tend to ignore the dumbasses, especially any dumbass that would be upset about a first round QB.

LOL I hear you. Some people want to draft one but they're scared he won't work out. It isn't 1983 lol.

Bane
09-11-2010, 12:58 PM
LOL I hear you. Some people want to draft one but they're scared he won't work out. It isn't 1983 lol.

IMO it's worth taking a shot.After dumpster diving for QB's for .......Well FOREVER.....Yeah it's time.

DeezNutz
09-11-2010, 12:59 PM
Without a doubt the self proclaimed chiefsplanets "talent evaluators" are not equiped to let talent be developed. Whether it be Dorsey, Jackson, or this year we have people already talking about Mcluster. Chiefesplanet will always label thier busts in the 1st few games of the season, if not the preseason. Its comical intil you have to listen to it in every thead for a season or 2. Then they move on to the next axe grinding. Its less about evaluation skill and more about personality short comings really.

You know what I haven't heard in awhile? How great a "franchise" QB Sanchez is gonna be.

The people whom you are almost certainly referring to here have been the ones most vocal in defending Dorsey.

It's not about "development" as much as it's about talent and potential. If the player has the latter two, most reasonable people will be far, far more willing to be as patient as needed.

SNR
09-11-2010, 01:02 PM
Chiefs fans for decades now have screamed and complained about the team not drafting and developing their own quarterback. Based on some of the reaction to Cassel, it’s obvious those who bled red and gold would have no more patience with a young guy than an inexperienced quarterback who came from another team. They would chew him up and spit him out in a matter of years.
You are fucking wrong, Gretz.

Take your classless, deranged fat fucking ass and go fuck yourself with your WPI-style "premium" content that nobody fucking gives a shit about because it's so goddamn awful. Die in an AIDS tree forest fire you globulous retarded hippo.

the Talking Can
09-11-2010, 01:04 PM
Without a doubt the self proclaimed chiefsplanets "talent evaluators" are not equiped to let talent be developed. Whether it be Dorsey, Jackson, or this year we have people already talking about Mcluster. Chiefesplanet will always label thier busts in the 1st few games of the season, if not the preseason. Its comical intil you have to listen to it in every thead for a season or 2. Then they move on to the next axe grinding. Its less about evaluation skill and more about personality short comings really.

You know what I haven't heard in awhile? How great a "franchise" QB Sanchez is gonna be.


crazy right?


all those great players we've drafted year after year that people are wrong about....

wait, wut?

people here defend dorsey like crazy, so you are either lying or just clueless

jackson...well, i'll let you defend that pick...i defended it last year and all it got me was fabulists like you making shit up...no true fan patted me on the back...

CrazyHorse
09-11-2010, 01:07 PM
The people whom you are almost certainly referring to here have been the ones most vocal in defending Dorsey.

It's not about "development" as much as it's about talent and potential. If the player has the latter two, most reasonable people will be far, far more willing to be as patient as needed.


Uh.....Im not new. Check my sigf up date. Im more than familiar with the patience of chiefsplanet. Of course im speaking in general terms. Some dont fall in that category. Maybe you dont. But, there's no doubt in my mind I know what Im talking about. Because Ive watched it play out over and over for more than 10 years now.

SNR
09-11-2010, 01:08 PM
You know what I haven't heard in awhile? How great a "franchise" QB Sanchez is gonna be.So you're saying that if the Chiefs drafted Sanchez and started him last year and he played about as well as he played in NY, you would doubt his abilities as a starting QB in the NFL. And you might even call him a bust.

You'll do that to a 23-year old who's still pretty raw and inexperienced but should any fan declare Cassel a failure... why... that's just so presumptuous and impatient.

DJ's left nut
09-11-2010, 01:10 PM
The people whom you are almost certainly referring to here have been the ones most vocal in defending Dorsey.

It's not about "development" as much as it's about talent and potential. If the player has the latter two, most reasonable people will be far, far more willing to be as patient as needed.

Exactly.

I've never said a foul word about Dorsey. Hell, I'm one of like 4 guys on this board that defended Pollard.

What 'bust' have we labeled in the first 1 or 2 seasons that didn't turn out to actually be a bust?

Crazyhorse's argument could perhaps have merit if all these guys that the 'faux talent evaluators' were shitting on early weren't actually awful.

Just sayin'...

CrazyHorse
09-11-2010, 01:11 PM
crazy right?


all those great players we've drafted year after year that people are wrong about....

wait, wut?

people here defend dorsey like crazy, so you are either lying or just clueless

jackson...well, i'll let you defend that pick...i defended it last year and all it got me was fabulists like you making shit up...no true fan patted me on the back...

They werent defending him after year 1. They are only starting to. He's giving them no choice.

There would be no reason to defend him if someone wasnt cracking on him in the 1st place.....right?

DJ's left nut
09-11-2010, 01:15 PM
They werent defending him after year 1. They are only starting to. He's giving them no choice.

There would be no reason to defend him if someone wasnt cracking on him in the 1st place.....right?

Your point is that there wasn't 100% acceptance of Glenn Dorsey and thus the fake talent evaluators you're speaking of must've been the ones that were shitting on him?

That's just ridiculous.

You're painting with a wide brush and you appear to be doing so with cheap paint. Your point is as flimsy as it is overly broad.

Rain Man
09-11-2010, 01:18 PM
to contradict my previous post, it's easy to say that we need to wait until cassel has talent around him, but it'd sure be nice to someday have a qb who elevates the talent around him instead of saying 'he'd be fine if he had a good rt and second wr'.
Posted via Mobile Device

DeezNutz
09-11-2010, 01:20 PM
to contradict my previous post, it's easy to say that we need to wait until cassel has talent around him, but it'd sure be nice to someday have a qb who elevates the talent around him instead of saying 'he'd be fine if he had a good rt and second wr'.
Posted via Mobile Device

Cassel has the necessary talent right now. The line is adequate and the position players are competent.

The only thing we need to wait on is one of Cassel's wobble punts to come down.

Marcellus
09-11-2010, 01:28 PM
Cassel has the necessary talent right now. The line is adequate and the position players are competent.

The only thing we need to wait on is one of Cassel's wobble punts to come down.

See this is where you Cassel haters are wrong. Cassel is going to play just well enough to ensure we get stuck with him for several more years.

He will have a 63% completion rate, Throw more TD's than Int's and have a 85 QB rating. The offense will be a short pass, heavy run, play action based offense.

We will go 8-8 or maybe 9-7 and the team will say we are just a few pieces away from being a contender and go spend another 1st round pick on a DL or LB.

CrazyHorse
09-11-2010, 01:32 PM
So you're saying that if the Chiefs drafted Sanchez and started him last year and he played about as well as he played in NY, you would doubt his abilities as a starting QB in the NFL. And you might even call him a bust.



No. I didn't say that.

Lets just say I dont have the keen evaluation talents as some. I dont make crack evaluations after one season. Or in some cases here, 1 play.

doomy3
09-11-2010, 01:32 PM
If Pioli hadn't seen Cassel in action I'd be more pessimistic. As it is, I'm worried, but still have some hope. Pioli had to know that trading for Cassel and passing on a top draftee would be a key decision, so you'd think he wouldn't do it without a whole lot of confidence in Cassel.

Really, all we know so far is that Pioli likes Cassel better than Mark Sanchez and Jimmy Clausen. That's all we really know. It is completely possible that Cassel was brought in because he was a better option than Thigpen and Croyle in Pioli's eyes, and Pioli didn't like Sanchez. I still don't think Sanchez will ever be anywhere near a top-line NFL QB, so if passing on him and going with Cassel for a few years until we can get a top-line QB is what it takes, I'm in.

doomy3
09-11-2010, 01:33 PM
I've said over and over again that it would ideal for our mythic first round pick to shit on the bench for a year....even stafford


that's why stashing Claussen on the bench behind Cassel....for a 2nd rounder was such a god damn no brainer, even if he sat 2-3 three years


this lie true fans tell about people being impatient is a projection...True Fans would be impatient because they want revenge for being called true fans while supporting one shitty QB after another....

people with an ounce of god damn sense know a guy coming straight from college takes time....

LMAO

That is even dumber than anything in the article.

DeezNutz
09-11-2010, 01:35 PM
See this is where you Cassel haters are wrong. Cassel is going to play just well enough to ensure we get stuck with him for several more years.


I'm not wrong because I've been suggesting the same thing since Weis was hired.

CrazyHorse
09-11-2010, 01:38 PM
Your point is that there wasn't 100% acceptance of Glenn Dorsey and thus the fake talent evaluators you're speaking of must've been the ones that were shitting on him?

That's just ridiculous.

You're painting with a wide brush and you appear to be doing so with cheap paint. Your point is as flimsy as it is overly broad.

The brush is only as broad as you make it.

Your defensive posture is telling.

Im not trying to get in a pissing contest. Simply making a statement of fact. Its not ridiculous. Not in the least. You may certainly disagree. I have no problem with that.

Maybe Im wrong.;)

the Talking Can
09-11-2010, 01:39 PM
See this is where you Cassel haters are wrong. Cassel is going to play just well enough to ensure we get stuck with him for several more years.

He will have a 63% completion rate, Throw more TD's than Int's and have a 85 QB rating. The offense will be a short pass, heavy run, play action based offense.

We will go 8-8 or maybe 9-7 and the team will say we are just a few pieces away from being a contender and go spend another 1st round pick on a DL or LB.

i'd said the same thing several times

we're stuck with him for 4 years....and pioli zombie too

edit

i think he'll have an 80 rating

Marcellus
09-11-2010, 01:40 PM
I'm not wrong because I've been suggesting the same thing since Weis was hired.

Your wobble punt comment makes it sound like you expect him to just stink out loud. My bad.

Thing is many people are talking like we are going 6-10 or 4-12 again because of Cassel.

He won't play that bad, he won't be Aaron Rodgers or Drew Breese, ever, but he will play well enough we could win at least 8 games in my opinion and maybe 9.

Mainly due to Charles, Jones, Bowe, McCluster, Arenas, and a slightly improved defense and a better o-line.

How many games we win will likely depend on how healthy the team stays. We have zero depth.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-11-2010, 01:42 PM
See this is where you Cassel haters are wrong. Cassel is going to play just well enough to ensure we get stuck with him for several more years.

He will have a 63% completion rate, Throw more TD's than Int's and have a 85 QB rating. The offense will be a short pass, heavy run, play action based offense.

We will go 8-8 or maybe 9-7 and the team will say we are just a few pieces away from being a contender and go spend another 1st round pick on a DL or LB.

I don't think so. I think he's either gonna do it big this year or be crap. He's not gonna be in between, but we'll see.

DeezNutz
09-11-2010, 01:42 PM
Your wobble punt comment makes it sound like you expect him to just stink out loud. My bad.

Thing is many people are talking like we are going 6-10 or 4-12 again because of Cassel.

He won't play that bad, he won't be Arron Rodgers or Drew Breese, ever, but he will play well enough we could win at least 8 games in my opinion and maybe 9.


I don't think it's going to be a case of Cassel playing well so much as it's going to be the case of Weis simply not putting him in a position to fail.

He'll dink and dunk to a high percentage and decent TD-INT ratio, and stupid fans we'll claim he's improving, when Weis has actually bagged the ugly ****.

If he can consistently stretch the field and make wobble-punt posts look horribly misinformed, I'll concede improvement.

Fritz88
09-11-2010, 01:44 PM
“Generally it’s pretty spot on what he sees. He sees the whole field. That was something that Kurt (Warner) was phenomenal at. A quarterback has to have great vision. Matt sees what’s happening.”



o' really?

Marcellus
09-11-2010, 01:46 PM
I don't think so. I think he's either gonna do it big this year or be crap. He's not gonna be in between, but we'll see.

That's what I am pulling for, either one really. I just don't see it. I think in the end he will be what he likely is. Average.

Goldmember
09-11-2010, 02:04 PM
I sure hope the Cassel thing is like when Trent Green first showed up, before he had all of his weapons in place.

Trent Green had one of the best supporting casts that a QB could have, except for a stud WR, but Gonzo and Priest made up for it. IMO, he was an avg to slightly above avg QB whose team made him better.

Cassel walked into a nightmare that any QB other than a Brees, Manning, etc. would not overcome and been successful. Having said that, I do not think Cassel has the "it" factor that makes for a great QB; Quick decision making ability, accuracy, strong arm, pocket presence, quick release, etc.

BossChief
09-11-2010, 02:31 PM
If we drafted a qb in the first round (or early second) you would find that a lot of the Planet would be turned upside down.

This is how I see it...

The resident "homers" would have a shorter leash for our kid than the "draftabulators"

I fully agree with Deez' take on how some of us have taken Dorseys slow development and see it as a very good example of how a first round quarterback would be handled by some of us.

SNR
09-11-2010, 02:34 PM
Having said that, I do not think Cassel has the "it" factor that makes for a great QB; Quick decision making ability, accuracy, strong arm, pocket presence, quick release, etc.It's a hell of a lot fucking easier to win a Super Bowl with that kind of QB under center than with a Cassel/Brad Johnson/Trent Dilfer.

So doesn't it make sense that we should go grab a player like that? Or at least roll the dice and take a goddamn risk?

J Diddy
09-11-2010, 02:40 PM
Trent Green had one of the best supporting casts that a QB could have, except for a stud WR, but Gonzo and Priest made up for it. IMO, he was an avg to slightly above avg QB whose team made him better.

Cassel walked into a nightmare that any QB other than a Brees, Manning, etc. would not overcome and been successful. Having said that, I do not think Cassel has the "it" factor that makes for a great QB; Quick decision making ability, accuracy, strong arm, pocket presence, quick release, etc.

Dude, greens first year he had no line. nobody outside of gonzalez to throw to, priest couldn't run the ball until the games were so out of reach that nobody cared what the offense did. They had waters playing center shields and I don't know who else.

The next year we picked up roaf, weigmann, moved waters to lg and things started clicking as well as us picking up kennison late into either the first or second season.

If you don't think green had "it", imo you're full of "it"

doomy3
09-11-2010, 02:40 PM
If we drafted a qb in the first round (or early second) you would find that a lot of the Planet would be turned upside down.

This is how I see it...

The resident "homers" would have a shorter leash for our kid than the "draftabulators"

I fully agree with Deez' take on how some of us have taken Dorseys slow development and see it as a very good example of how a first round quarterback would be handled by some of us.

To address your last point, the reason Dorsey has gotten such a leash is because he was the guy many of the "draftubators" wanted. Much like the way guys like Dejuan Morgan are given so much time. Same with Albert, who has been less than spectacular for a first-round tackle. It isn't because of ability or anything like that IMO, but is because they liked them predraft.

You are right though about a rookie QB. Those people who want a first round QB, no matter who it is, would definitely be patient with him. In fact, we'd probably see a lot of the same excuses that they blast people for making for Cassel (lack of talent around him, drops, bad OL, bad play calling, etc.) Yes, I realize that Cassel isn't a rookie and should have the same learning curve, so save that rhetoric TTC, etc.

T-post Tom
09-11-2010, 02:41 PM
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/ebartlett327/2007Dragon.jpg

Kerberos
09-11-2010, 02:46 PM
I sure hope I'm wrong.

That makes two of us that hope you are wrong! :p

Goldmember
09-11-2010, 02:46 PM
It's a hell of a lot fucking easier to win a Super Bowl with that kind of QB under center than with a Cassel/Brad Johnson/Trent Dilfer.

So doesn't it make sense that we should go grab a player like that? Or at least roll the dice and take a goddamn risk?

Yes. Sometimes I wonder WTF was Pioli thinking in his first year with choosing Cassel and his draft. I know it was his first year and all, but hell, a blind monkey throwing darts at a draft board could have done a better job.

Goldmember
09-11-2010, 02:53 PM
Dude, greens first year he had no line. nobody outside of gonzalez to throw to, priest couldn't run the ball until the games were so out of reach that nobody cared what the offense did. They had waters playing center shields and I don't know who else.

The next year we picked up roaf, weigmann, moved waters to lg and things started clicking as well as us picking up kennison late into either the first or second season.

Right and he stunk, just like Cassel stunk last year. That's how the got the TrINT nickname. Even when the line improved, they gave Green 4-5 seconds sometimes and he still hung onto the ball too long. I'm saying the team improved his performance, not the other way around. Hey, I thought Green was a good player and a great guy. Nobody deserved to win a super bowl more than him.

MadMax
09-11-2010, 03:01 PM
To address your last point, the reason Dorsey has gotten such a leash is because he was the guy many of the "draftubators" wanted. Much like the way guys like Dejuan Morgan are given so much time. Same with Albert, who has been less than spectacular for a first-round tackle. It isn't because of ability or anything like that IMO, but is because they liked them predraft.

You are right though about a rookie QB. Those people who want a first round QB, no matter who it is, would definitely be patient with him. In fact, we'd probably see a lot of the same excuses that they blast people for making for Cassel (lack of talent around him, drops, bad OL, bad play calling, etc.) Yes, I realize that Cassel isn't a rookie and should have the same learning curve, so save that rhetoric TTC, etc.




I'm curious as to what talent you see Cassel having? Oh well we are stuck with the lil pig fucker so we'll see AGAIN this year he is not a quality NFL QB.

MadMax
09-11-2010, 03:04 PM
The people whom you are almost certainly referring to here have been the ones most vocal in defending Dorsey.

It's not about "development" as much as it's about talent and potential. If the player has the latter two, most reasonable people will be far, far more willing to be as patient as needed.




Yep and with Cassel you just can't develop what isn't there.

doomy3
09-11-2010, 03:19 PM
I'm curious as to what talent you see Cassel having? Oh well we are stuck with the lil pig ****er so we'll see AGAIN this year he is not a quality NFL QB.

What talent do I think Cassel has at this point?

I think he's better than Mark Sanchez. I think he's better than Jimmy Clausen.

That's about it.

If we have a shot at a guy with legitimate top-line franchise QB upside, you grab him and don't look back. However, I don't think either of the guys we have passed on since Pioli has been here are that guy. Really, that's about all Cassel should be judged on, IMO.

I still contend that a couple years of Cassel and then drafting a guy like Luck, Mallet, Locker, Gabbert (assuming they grade out high and don't pull a Jevan Snead), is better than tying yourself to a guy like Mark Sanchez and trying to force him into being a franchise QB because we took him at #3 overall.

Sanchez and Cassel are both game managers, IMO, and neither offer top 8 QB upside. I think both of their upsides are about the same, middle of the NFL somewhere. You can win with either of them, but you need a ton of talent around them and a top defense. The Jets have that and the Chiefs don't, so clearly Sanchez is in the much better situation.

J Diddy
09-11-2010, 03:23 PM
Yes. Sometimes I wonder WTF was Pioli thinking in his first year with choosing Cassel and his draft. I know it was his first year and all, but hell, a blind monkey throwing darts at a draft board could have done a better job.


That was most definitely a head scratching "huh?" draft.

the Talking Can
09-11-2010, 03:33 PM
To address your last point, the reason Dorsey has gotten such a leash is because he was the guy many of the "draftubators" wanted. Much like the way guys like Dejuan Morgan are given so much time. Same with Albert, who has been less than spectacular for a first-round tackle. It isn't because of ability or anything like that IMO, but is because they liked them predraft.

You are right though about a rookie QB. Those people who want a first round QB, no matter who it is, would definitely be patient with him. In fact, we'd probably see a lot of the same excuses that they blast people for making for Cassel (lack of talent around him, drops, bad OL, bad play calling, etc.) Yes, I realize that Cassel isn't a rookie and should have the same learning curve, so save that rhetoric TTC, etc.

it would be easier if you just stated the obvious reasons, as opposed to making things up

1. people 'defend' Dorsey for the obvious ****ing reason that he was drafted to be a 4-3 DT and is now a 3-4 DE. You don't need Deep Throat to figure it out.

And he doesn't suck out loud like cassel and jackson. Again, I know, this is complex...

2. Same thing with Albert. People 'defend' him because he doesn't suck. It doesn't require a secret agenda to not bag on a player who doesn't suck.

3. Morgan...I don't know, that's meccas guy. Maybe send him an email with your complaints. I could and most everyone else could give a shit about him.

See how easy it is, when you stick to the obvious?

Shitty players get bagged on. Non-shitty players don't. (and for **** sake i defended jackson's pick and pioli's trade (the theory of it) more vociferously than most anyone here...ask hamas). And all I got for it is lying nonsense from true fan after true fan.

28 yr old 63 million dollar vet backup QBs are going to get the business when they suck ass. Rookies straight out of college are going to be treated differently.

etc

so cram your butt hurt up cassel's franchise hole

BossChief
09-11-2010, 03:54 PM
When Sanchez and Clausen are Cassels age, they will two of the best qbs in the NFL.

Marcellus
09-11-2010, 04:19 PM
When Sanchez and Clausen are Cassels age, they will two of the best qbs in the NFL.

What are the wining Powerball numbers tonight?

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 04:38 PM
Maybe Im wrong.;)

This is a given

Dave Lane
09-11-2010, 04:46 PM
I sure hope the Cassel thing is like when Trent Green first showed up, before he had all of his weapons in place.

Even the hate for TrInt wasn't as great as for Cassel. These people are nuts and Gretz is 100% right. If the Chiefs drafted a QB he'd have about 5 games to become Joe Montana or they'd start ripping him. The jury is still out for Cassel. I'd say there is less than 2% chance he becomes a very good to franchise QB but he could be a good QB. I think the floor is Huard and the ceiling is Green in former Chiefs QB terms.

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 04:48 PM
Even the hate for TrInt wasn't as great as for Cassel. These people are nuts and Gretz is 100% right. If the Chiefs drafted a QB he'd have about 5 games to become Joe Montana or they'd start ripping him.

This is complete and utter fucking bullshit.

If this is what you truly think and would expect, the Kansas City Chiefs have the dumbest fucking fan base in the universe, BAR NONE.

First off, Dummy, Green was a proven QB in the league with successful stops in Washington and St. Louis before arriving in KC. Matt Cassel hadn't played fucking football in seven years when he took over in NE and his success could have been directly attributed to his surrounding playmakers.

Cassel is NOT a leader and he will NEVER be the guy to put a team on his shoulder, drive them down the field and WIN at all costs.

crossbow
09-11-2010, 05:03 PM
I have heard and seen enough bullshit. I want the Chiefs to draft their own franchise quarterback. Why are the Chiefs fans the only NFL team that is refused this basic necessity? I am so frustrated over this that even if they brought Tom Brady in I would hate him.

doomy3
09-11-2010, 05:05 PM
When Sanchez and Clausen are Cassels age, they will two of the best qbs in the NFL.

Well, we couldn't disagree more about this. And I sure hope you're wrong.

Rain Man
09-11-2010, 05:11 PM
Green was a proven QB in the league with successful stops in Washington and St. Louis before arriving in KC. Matt Cassel hadn't played ****ing football in seven years when he took over in NE and his success could have been directly attributed to his surrounding playmakers.


Not to quibble, and I love Trent Green like a brother, but I wouldn't describe him as a proven NFL quarterback when he came to KC. If anything, I think he was kind of a clone of Cassel unless I'm misremembering something. That in part is why I'm holding out hope for Cassel, despite my worries about him.

TRR
09-11-2010, 05:13 PM
This is complete and utter fucking bullshit.

If this is what you truly think and would expect, the Kansas City Chiefs have the dumbest fucking fan base in the universe, BAR NONE.

First off, Dummy, Green was a proven QB in the league with successful stops in Washington and St. Louis before arriving in KC. Matt Cassel hadn't played fucking football in seven years when he took over in NE and his success could have been directly attributed to his surrounding playmakers.

Cassel is NOT a leader and he will NEVER be the guy to put a team on his shoulder, drive them down the field and WIN at all costs.

Umm? How was Green a proven QB in the league? And how were his stops in Washington and St Louis considered successful? He had one year in Washington that was equal/less statistically than Cassel's one year in NE, and then rode the pine after getting hurt in Preseason with the Rams...

Uhh?
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DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 05:16 PM
Not to quibble, and I love Trent Green like a brother, but I wouldn't describe him as a proven NFL quarterback when he came to KC. If anything, I think he was kind of a clone of Cassel unless I'm misremembering something. That in part is why I'm holding out hope for Cassel, despite my worries about him.

You are misremembering.

He had a very successful season in Washington before being offered a 4 years, $16 million dollar contract by the Rams to be their starter (that was pretty big money in 1999).

In 1998, he had nearly 3,500 yards, 24 TD's, 11 INT's in only 14 games.

When he filled in for an injured Kurt Warner in 2000, he had more than 2,000 yards, 16 TD's, 5 INT's in only 5 starts (although he did play portions of three other games).

The guy was definitely a starting QB in the league which is why he was traded for the #12 pick overall.

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 05:17 PM
Umm? How was Green a proven QB in the league? And how were his stops in Washington and St Louis considered successful? He had one year in Washington that was equal/less statistically than Cassel's one year in NE, and then rode the pine after getting hurt in Preseason with the Rams...

Uhh?
Posted via Mobile Device

:shake:

TRR
09-11-2010, 05:21 PM
:shake:

The criteria you use for saying Green was a proven QB and had successful stops is almost identical to Cassel's one year in NE...

Shake your head all you want, you don't have a leg to stand on. That's a ridiculous argument.
Posted via Mobile Device

the Talking Can
09-11-2010, 05:21 PM
You are misremembering.

He had a very successful season in Washington before being offered a 4 years, $16 million dollar contract by the Rams to be their starter (that was pretty big money in 1999).

In 1998, he had nearly 3,500 yards, 24 TD's, 11 INT's in only 14 games.

When he filled in for an injured Kurt Warner in 2000, he had more than 2,000 yards, 16 TD's, 5 INT's in only 5 starts (although he did play portions of three other games).

The guy was definitely a starting QB in the league which is why he was traded for the #12 pick overall.

and he had something crazy like a 70% completion rate in preseason before getting injured...that's why DV was devasted when it happened

he always looked the part when he played, even when he played bad it wasn't from fear or indecisiveness, in fact it was usually from trying to make plays downfield that weren't there...something Cassel never does

i have no idea why people compare green and cassel...their games bear no similarities

Rain Man
09-11-2010, 05:24 PM
The criteria you use for saying Green was a proven QB and had successful stops is almost identical to Cassel's one year in NE...

Shake your head all you want, you don't have a leg to stand on. That's a ridiculous argument.
Posted via Mobile Device


Yeah, we all know now that Trent is great, but I sure didn't think he was established when we traded for him. In fact, I was aghast that we gave up a 1st-round pick for a guy who had essentially one year of starting, and it had seemed like the one year was a Scott Mitchell/Don Majkowski kind of thing.

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 05:24 PM
The criteria you use for saying Green was a proven QB and had successful stops is almost identical to Cassel's one year in NE...

Shake your head all you want, you don't have a leg to stand on. That's a ridiculous argument.
Posted via Mobile Device

Bull fucking shit.

Your idiocy NEVER cease to amaze me.

Trent Green led a 6-10 with a shitty offensive line, yet had the numbers above. He was signed to very large deal at the time and had amazing numbers in preseason.

Even AFTER the injury, he put up awesome numbers, numbers that completely destroyed Cassel's in 15 games last year, Trent did in FIVE.

You're a clueless woman.

TRR
09-11-2010, 05:25 PM
and he had something crazy like a 70% completion rate in preseason before getting injured...that's why DV was devasted when it happened

he always looked the part when he played, even when he played bad it wasn't from fear or indecisiveness, in fact it was usually from trying to make plays downfield that weren't there...something Cassel never does

i have no idea why people compare green and cassel...their games bear no similarities

Agreed on comparing Cassel to Green. However, to say Green was proven and a sure fire starter couldn't have been further from the truth. Especially coming after knee surgery and after his performance in year one in KC.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 05:25 PM
Yeah, we all know now that Trent is great, but I sure didn't think he was established when we traded for him. In fact, I was aghast that we gave up a 1st-round pick for a guy who had essentially one year of starting, and it had seemed like the one year was a Scott Mitchell/Don Majkowski kind of thing.

Then you just weren't paying attention.

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 05:26 PM
Agreed on comparing Cassel to Green. However, to say Green was proven and a sure fire starter couldn't have been further from the truth. Especially coming after knee surgery and after his performance in year one in KC.
Posted via Mobile Device

Again, more bullshit.

And how'd that turn out?

LMAO

Oh and for the record, Norv Turner, Mike Martz and Dick Vermeil disagree.

As should anyone with a fucking brain.

TRR
09-11-2010, 05:29 PM
Bull fucking shit.

Your idiocy NEVER cease to amaze me.

Trent Green led a 6-10 with a shitty offensive line, yet had the numbers above. He was signed to very large deal at the time and had amazing numbers in preseason.

Even AFTER the injury, he put up awesome numbers, numbers that completely destroyed Cassel's in 15 games last year, Trent did in FIVE.

You're a clueless woman.

Was was his year in Wash with those numbers above and on a 6-10 team considered successful??? And your taking a 5 game snapshot, and consider it successful as well?

Green had SO MANY questions marks surrounding him when he came to KC. He was far from a sure thing, and fans including yourself, were ready to hang him after year one in KC.

Your statement and argument is simply pathetic.
Posted via Mobile Device

TRR
09-11-2010, 05:30 PM
Again, more bullshit.

And how'd that turn out?

LMAO

Oh and for the record, Norv Turner, Mike Martz and Dick Vermeil disagree.

As should anyone with a fucking brain.

We aren't talking about the end result. We are talking about your idiotic statement of Green's "successful stops and proven starter" quote.

Get a clue....
Posted via Mobile Device

the Talking Can
09-11-2010, 05:33 PM
Agreed on comparing Cassel to Green. However, to say Green was proven and a sure fire starter couldn't have been further from the truth. Especially coming after knee surgery and after his performance in year one in KC.
Posted via Mobile Device

ok

but the point i always think gets missed is that guys have 'something' or don't...and stats really don't capture it

Green didn't have the 'it' that great QBs have...but he had a little 'bit of it' in his fearless pocket presence and lazer accuracy in the 15 to 30 yard range...he wanted to go down field and make plays, and could throw ropes into tight spaces..he saw the whole field

imo, Cassel has no 'it' of any kind...he's just a guy who looks likes he doesn't know what his own best talent is....hence the confusion, delay, holding the ball, indecision....not to mention that he is simply poor throwing the ball down field..

and so - to me - it all seems like a waste of time to try and find historical precedents for Cassel...sure, there are situations that appear similiar, but the difference that matters is within the players...and - again imo - Cassel has nothing in common with good QBs....he's just a guy with a fresh face and no 'it' whatsoever...

Rain Man
09-11-2010, 05:36 PM
I'd love to hear from some other old-timers on this. I really don't recall a lot of people - or any people - saying that Trent Green was an established quarterback when we traded for him. I recall mostly shock. I wish we could do more effective searches of old threads, but I think maybe the threads from that era all died.

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 05:36 PM
We aren't talking about the end result. We are talking about your idiotic statement of Green's "successful stops and proven starter" quote.

Get a clue....
Posted via Mobile Device

Fuck you.

What, were you 16 years old in 1998? Did you even WATCH the Redskins that year? How about 2000? 18 years old? Did you even WATCH the Rams?

You're clueless.

Shut the fuck up before you further embarrass yourself.

TRR
09-11-2010, 05:37 PM
ok

but the point i always think gets missed is that guys have 'something' or don't...and stats really don't capture it

Green didn't have the 'it' that great QBs have...but he had a little 'bit of it' in his fearless pocket presence and lazer accuracy in the 15 to 30 yard range...he wanted to go down field and make plays, and could throw ropes into tight spaces..he saw the whole field

imo, Cassel has no 'it' of any kind...he's just a guy who looks likes he doesn't know what his own best talent is....hence the confusion, delay, holding the ball, indecision....not to mention that he is simply poor throwing the ball down field..

and so - to me - it all seems like a waste of time to try and find historical precedents for Cassel...sure, there are situations that appear similiar, but the difference that matters is within the players...and - again imo - Cassel has nothing in common with good QBs....he's just a guy with a fresh face and no 'it' whatsoever...

Again I agree save one point. Cassel had a pinch of "it" with NE. Whether that was because of the team around him or not...he had a bit of "it.

Unfortunately that glimpse hasn't translated to the Chiefs.
Posted via Mobile Device

Brock
09-11-2010, 05:38 PM
Again I agree save one point. Cassel had a pinch of "it" with NE. Whether that was because of the team around him or not...he had a bit of "it.

Unfortunately that glimpse hasn't translated to the Chiefs.
Posted via Mobile Device

The "it" he had over there was a couple of all-pro receivers.

-King-
09-11-2010, 05:39 PM
When Sanchez and Clausen are Cassels age, they will two of the best qbs in the NFL.

Clausen maybe, but Sanchez is not going to be anything more than an average game manager.

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 05:39 PM
I'd love to hear from some other old-timers on this. I really don't recall a lot of people - or any people - saying that Trent Green was an established quarterback when we traded for him. I recall mostly shock. I wish we could do more effective searches of old threads, but I think maybe the threads from that era all died.

Wow, you're memory is fading quickly.

:D

There was NO shock here on CP. As a matter of fact, I started a few threads before Free Agency began asking the following question:

Trent Green & Priest Holmes or Trent Dilfer & Deuce McCallister?

People seemed split because Deuce was a fan favorite at #12 overall and Dilfer had just won the Super Bowl.

It was evident from the day that Vermeil and Saunders were hired that their top priority was Trent Green. They gave a little lip service about Elvis but as soon as he opted out, EVERYONE knew Green was coming.

NO ONE was surprised or shocked, although a very small minority of us (Milkman included) preferred Drew Brees at the time at #12 and not Green or the Deuce.

TRR
09-11-2010, 05:40 PM
Fuck you.

What, were you 16 years old in 1998? Did you even WATCH the Redskins that year? How about 2000? 18 years old? Did you even WATCH the Rams?

You're clueless.

Shut the fuck up before you further embarrass yourself.

Haha! Always a class act and excellent reply.

Dane's definition of success..."3500 yards passing, 24 TDs, 11 INT's on a 6-10 team". Oh and don't forget that 2,000 yards as a backup in 5 games that solidified Green as a can't miss, legitimate starter.

As always...stay classy and continue to conduct yourself as a 50 year old adult! LOL!
Posted via Mobile Device

the Talking Can
09-11-2010, 05:41 PM
Again I agree save one point. Cassel had a pinch of "it" with NE. Whether that was because of the team around him or not...he had a bit of "it.

Unfortunately that glimpse hasn't translated to the Chiefs.
Posted via Mobile Device

maybe

lots of qbs have put up #s and won games without - and i'm now abusing the word - 'it'

Grbac, who i think is a much better QB than Cassel, put up big #'s and won some games...and had none of 'it'

i guess i feel like it is something you can see even when a guy plays like shit, ...and i've never seen it in cassel

i now i swear i won't use the word 'it' again today...

TRR
09-11-2010, 05:41 PM
The "it" he had over there was a couple of all-pro receivers.

Very well could be true. We hope to know this season for sure.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 05:43 PM
Haha! Always a class act and excellent reply.

Dane's definition of success..."3500 yards passing, 24 TDs, 11 INT's on a 6-10 team". Oh and don't forget that 2,000 yards as a backup in 5 games that solidified Green as a can't miss, legitimate starter.

As always...stay classy and continue to conduct yourself as a 50 year old adult! LOL!
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm not fucking 50 years old, you fucking jerkoff.

But clearly, you were right and Mike Martz, Dick Vermeil and Norv Turner were wrong.

LMAO

Go fist yourself, Dumbass.

Dave Lane
09-11-2010, 05:45 PM
Haha! Always a class act and excellent reply.

Dane's definition of success..."3500 yards passing, 24 TDs, 11 INT's on a 6-10 team". Oh and don't forget that 2,000 yards as a backup in 5 games that solidified Green as a can't miss, legitimate starter.

As always...stay classy and continue to conduct yourself as a 50 year old adult! LOL!
Posted via Mobile Device

Rep and to finish the rep comment his act is growing increasingly old.

-King-
09-11-2010, 05:46 PM
I'm not fucking 50 years old, you fucking jerkoff.

But clearly, you were right and Mike Martz, Dick Vermeil and Norv Turner were wrong.

LMAO

Go fist yourself, Dumbass.

You're always talking shit when people use that "Pioli knows more than you because he's a GM" argument, then you go an use that same argument about Martz, Vermeil and Turner?


You're falling off Mr. Dane McCloud.

Rain Man
09-11-2010, 05:49 PM
I remember being disappointed that we signed that backup Priest Holmes when we could've had Charlie Garner.

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 05:53 PM
You're always talking shit when people use that "Pioli knows more than you because he's a GM" argument, then you go an use that same argument about Martz, Vermeil and Turner?


You're falling off Mr. Dane McCloud.

Oh, just fuck you.

This punk was 16 years old in 1998 and I'm certain he didn't watch a fucking Redskins game that season.

Trent Green was clearly NFL starting QB material when he signed his 4 year, $16 million dollar deal with St. Louis in 1999. His preseason stats were phenomenal and had he not been injured, his season would have have been just as phenomenal.

When he returned a year later to start in place of Kurt Warner, again, his numbers were phenomenal. To think otherwise is just plain uninformed and dumb.

And furthermore, since you clearly don't know the history that I've laid out for you. Mike Martz was Trent Green's QB Coach in Washington and once hired in St. Louis to be there OC, he convinced Vermeil and the St. Louis front office to sign Green. Green did not disappoint on the field and later brought them the #12 overall selection.

That has absolutely NOTHING to do with my disapproval of Scott Pioli's horrific personnel decisions while serving as the GM in Kansas City.

Got it?

Oh, and Trent Green does NOT equal Matt fucking Cassel.

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 05:54 PM
Rep and to finish the rep comment his act is growing increasingly old.

Don't you have some churches to protest somewhere?

You know what's gotten old, Dave?

You and your stupid ass comments.

Brock
09-11-2010, 05:55 PM
I remember being disappointed that we signed that backup Priest Holmes when we could've had Charlie Garner.

ROFL Me too.

milkman
09-11-2010, 10:25 PM
To address your last point, the reason Dorsey has gotten such a leash is because he was the guy many of the "draftubators" wanted. Much like the way guys like Dejuan Morgan are given so much time. Same with Albert, who has been less than spectacular for a first-round tackle. It isn't because of ability or anything like that IMO, but is because they liked them predraft.

You are right though about a rookie QB. Those people who want a first round QB, no matter who it is, would definitely be patient with him. In fact, we'd probably see a lot of the same excuses that they blast people for making for Cassel (lack of talent around him, drops, bad OL, bad play calling, etc.) Yes, I realize that Cassel isn't a rookie and should have the same learning curve, so save that rhetoric TTC, etc.

I think that anyone has been around here for anytime knows that I am Albert's biggest supporter.

And I have been patient with his development because he's undergone more change than any lineman drafted before has.

But even I have acknowledged that this is the year he has to take that huge step forward in his progression, and have been critical of his play in this preseason.

I would expect that is exactly how I would have treated a drafted QB, whether it was Sanchez, who I believe will be a franchise QB, or Jimmy Clausen, who I have never bought into.

milkman
09-11-2010, 10:30 PM
Wow, you're memory is fading quickly.

:D

There was NO shock here on CP. As a matter of fact, I started a few threads before Free Agency began asking the following question:

Trent Green & Priest Holmes or Trent Dilfer & Deuce McCallister?

People seemed split because Deuce was a fan favorite at #12 overall and Dilfer had just won the Super Bowl.

It was evident from the day that Vermeil and Saunders were hired that their top priority was Trent Green. They gave a little lip service about Elvis but as soon as he opted out, EVERYONE knew Green was coming.

NO ONE was surprised or shocked, although a very small minority of us (Milkman included) preferred Drew Brees at the time at #12 and not Green or the Deuce.

Actually, Dane,while I can't remember what I hoped for in terms of QB, I'm pretty sure I didn't want to see the Chiefs draft Brees.

I discussed a number of times in the last couple years how wrong I was on that front.

And like Rainman and TC, I also wanted to see Charlie Garner in KC, rather than Holmes.

I've been right more than I've been wrong, but those are two glaring examples of times that I've been wrong.

DBOSHO
09-11-2010, 10:39 PM
So basically which and will be there when we pick hopefully around 10th-12th

Just off the top of my head id say buffalo, maybe Cleveland, maybe Washington(for post-mcnabb future) maybe jax if garrard has a bad year, will be shopping for qbs. im prob forgetting someone.

Locker
Gabbert
Mallett
K Moore
Keenum

Id like to see the chiefs take a chance on any of these unless cassel plays well, although we will prob draft line or lb.

DaneMcCloud
09-11-2010, 10:59 PM
Actually, Dane,while I can't remember what I hoped for in terms of QB, I'm pretty sure I didn't want to see the Chiefs draft Brees.

I discussed a number of times in the last couple years how wrong I was on that front.

And like Rainman and TC, I also wanted to see Charlie Garner in KC, rather than Holmes.

I've been right more than I've been wrong, but those are two glaring examples of times that I've been wrong.

My apologies. I thought you were in the Brees camp.

As for Garner, no one is exactly "right or wrong" because he did lead the Raiders to the 2002 Super Bowl. He wasn't Priest but he was effective in the dink and dunk (Stink and Stunk).

If the archives worked, you'd see that I was hugely in favor of Priest Holmes because of his 1,000 yard plus yards in Baltimore and his ability out of the backfield to catch passes. He reminded me of a modern day James Brooks, but with more talent.

It's a damn shame his body couldn't hold up.

Baby Lee
09-12-2010, 09:26 AM
Asked for areas where he’s seen improvement from his starting quarterback and Haley gets pretty vague. But Friday he identified an area that while simple, is one of the most important elements for the success of a starting quarterback.

“When he comes off the field, what he says he saw generally ends up being what it was,” Haley said. “I think that’s a real good quality to have. Even subtle things within a game, you’ll say to him why did you do this, and he’ll say this linebacker did this, the receiver stumbled, or that receiver was short, the safety did this.

This says to me that Cassel runs his plays from the POV of 'why shouldn't I throw this pass? Why shouldn't I throw that pass? Ohh!! Checkdown in the flat is open!!'

milkman
09-12-2010, 09:33 AM
This says to me that Cassel runs his plays from the POV of 'why shouldn't I throw this pass? Why shouldn't I throw that pass? Ohh!! Checkdown in the flat is open!!'

All that quote tells me is that if you hold onto the ball long enough due to indecisiveness, you're going to see evertything eventually.

Comparing his vision to Warner's, who saw the whole field from the snap, and who made quick decisions is laughable, and a coach trying to blow smoke up our skirts.

Baby Lee
09-12-2010, 09:33 AM
I'd love to hear from some other old-timers on this. I really don't recall a lot of people - or any people - saying that Trent Green was an established quarterback when we traded for him. I recall mostly shock. I wish we could do more effective searches of old threads, but I think maybe the threads from that era all died.

I think it was more Martz seeing him as the prototypical QB for his system and placing faith in that judgment. He was certainly performing it in Washington, in the 99 preseason pre-injury, and in 2000.

That and Vermiel's hard-on. The assessment was sorely tested in 2001, then he grew on us in 2002.

Rausch
09-12-2010, 09:44 AM
I think it was more Martz seeing him as the prototypical QB for his system and placing faith in that judgment. He was certainly performing it in Washington, in the 99 preseason pre-injury, and in 2000.

That and Vermiel's hard-on. The assessment was sorely tested in 2001, then he grew on us in 2002.

IIRC Martz was hired because of the similarity between his offense and the Coryell offense that DV wanted to emulate.

The offense needed not only a pure passer but a thinker. The irony to me was how much they believed in Green, and even after he'd established himself, they really didn't give him the authority to audible and TAKE the offense...

KC Tattoo
09-12-2010, 09:58 AM
[QUOTE=AirForceChief;6992972]Well written, even handed article from Bob Gretz:

There’s one thing that Matt Cassel knows, and if he doesn’t then somebody should give him the information.

Len Dawson was booed by Chiefs fans. Terry Bradshaw was booed by Steelers fans. John Elway was booed by Broncos fans. Insert name of Hall of Fame quarterback and he was booed by fans of the insert name team he played for during his career.


BOOO Matt Cassel you SUCK!!

Now is he going to play better like the greats did? If the greats were booed, then this right here should justify us booing him. Now history shows, if you boo your QB when he sucks on the field, he will become a HOFer. What a novel idea, thanks Gretz for this insite on how we fans can help Matt Cassel. The more we boo Matt the better he will become. LOL ok then.


BOOO MATT YOU SUCK!!!


has it helped yet?

Jack
09-12-2010, 11:20 AM
Seems there are a lot of folks here that find fault with what Gretz wrote based mainly on personal dissatisfaction of just one player.
This article is a fairly accurate depiction. Reading this several times, I tend to accept this rational best stated by this:

“At this point in time, we don’t know where Matt Cassel’s future will take him or the Chiefs. There have been flashes of talent and skill that indicate he has some of the necessary qualities. There have also been moments when his failures have indicated he’s not nearly consistent enough right now to lead a team to a winning season.”

When I read some postings previously about Cassel being told to stay away from the CP, I had to chuckle. They are some sage members here on the Planet, but to think that the CP is the voice of all Chiefdom is a stretch.

I am not that pleased with his performance of last year or even of what I saw in preseason. But we have yet to see what he can do when not being chased all over the field with lack of an even average offensive line. Putting him behind Willie and the boys and predicting how he would compare with Green is pure folly and just a make weight argument.

Some where I read “when all goes wrong, be first to fix the blame”. It is a problem of exasperation where there is loss of focus; of always wanting to win and not knowing how to accept losing; of not being able to move on the next day when today doesn’t hold enjoyment. Then there are those who love to mire in misery and actively promote it.

Sometimes the CP can be a challenge when one has to wade through the sophomoric drivel of dog vapor.

Rausch
09-12-2010, 11:25 AM
Now is he going to play better like the greats did? If the greats were booed, then this right here should justify us booing him. Now history shows, if you boo your QB when he sucks on the field, he will become a HOFer. What a novel idea, thanks Gretz for this insite on how we fans can help Matt Cassel. The more we boo Matt the better he will become. LOL ok then.


BOOO MATT YOU SUCK!!!


has it helped yet?

So the deal is when yer' drunk you post under KCNUT and when you're sober....er....you post under Laz?

the Talking Can
09-12-2010, 11:28 AM
Sometimes the CP can be a challenge when one has to wade through the sophomoric drivel of dog vapor.

you should pm Zach...

Rausch
09-12-2010, 11:30 AM
When I read some postings previously about Cassel being told to stay away from the CP, I had to chuckle. They are some sage members here on the Planet, but to think that the CP is the voice of all Chiefdom is a stretch.

Hell no.

Only the mostly angry and impatient (read: I've been paying money for this $#it) part.

However, in some ways I do feel that Chiefsplanet voices all of Chiefdom. It does not claim to represent any 1 section or "take" on the team yet values/respects the input of all (as long as you're not a ****ing n00b.)

milkman
09-12-2010, 11:41 AM
I am not that pleased with his performance of last year or even of what I saw in preseason. But we have yet to see what he can do when not being chased all over the field with lack of an even average offensive line

Talk about drivel.

We've seen him actually get worse even as the protection improved and a running game appeared to support him.

MadMax
09-12-2010, 12:53 PM
Talk about drivel.

We've seen him actually get worse even as the protection improved and a running game appeared to support him.




THIS!!!! times a thousand.

BossChief
09-12-2010, 12:54 PM
Well, we couldn't disagree more about this. And I sure hope you're wrong. To be fair, I was 90% against us drafting Sanchez at the time. That is the way I see it though.

I saw what I expected from Sanchez in the regular season, a guy that shouldnt have been on the field that early. BUT when the playoffs started we saw a kid develop into a guy that helped his team make plays consistently and was pretty good in the clutch.

With the additional weapons they provided him with this year, he should take another step in his career. A lot hinges on how that line plays after the management jettisoning Alan Faneca (which I think was very foolish)

My hope (however unrealistic it may be) on the Clausen front is that Matt Moore locks down the starters role in Carolina and that we make a trade for Clausen next year (as their coaching staff has links to ours) or that we finally take a shot on one of the kids entering the next draft or two. I still prefer Clausen over most of them.


The guy was definitely a starting QB in the league which is why he was traded for the #12 pick overall.

Actually, IIRC (which isn't always the case) we traded the first rounder for the rights to Dick Vermiel because the Rams still owned his rights after he retired and then we threw them another pick in that draft (I think it was a third rounder) for Trent because he was a guy that had ran the system Dicky V was installing (air coryell) and had a lot of experience in it.

DaneMcCloud
09-12-2010, 12:58 PM
Actually, IIRC (which isn't always the case) we traded the first rounder for the rights to Dick Vermiel because the Rams still owned his rights after he retired and then we threw them another pick in that draft (I think it was a third rounder) for Trent because he was a guy that had ran the system Dicky V was installing (air coryell) and had a lot of experience in it.

Nope, you're remembering incorrectly.

The Chiefs traded the #12 overall to St. Louis for Trent Green.

The Chiefs traded their 2001 second round pick AND their third round pick to St. Louis for Vermeil.

The Chiefs received a 2001 third round pick for compensation for Schottenheimer to Washington (The Chiefs owned his rights when hired by Snyder).

Rausch
09-12-2010, 12:59 PM
What I really want to hear when I think of my franchise QB is the word "SURVIVING."

BossChief
09-12-2010, 01:08 PM
Nope, you're remembering incorrectly.

The Chiefs traded the #12 overall to St. Louis for Trent Green.

The Chiefs traded their 2001 second round pick AND their third round pick to St. Louis for Vermeil.

The Chiefs received a 2001 third round pick for compensation for Schottenheimer to Washington (The Chiefs owned his rights when hired by Snyder).

Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure that's right.

milkman
09-12-2010, 01:15 PM
To be fair, I was 90% against us drafting Sanchez at the time. That is the way I see it though.

I saw what I expected from Sanchez in the regular season, a guy that shouldnt have been on the field that early. BUT when the playoffs started we saw a kid develop into a guy that helped his team make plays consistently and was pretty good in the clutch.

With the additional weapons they provided him with this year, he should take another step in his career. A lot hinges on how that line plays after the management jettisoning Alan Faneca (which I think was very foolish)

My hope (however unrealistic it may be) on the Clausen front is that Matt Moore locks down the starters role in Carolina and that we make a trade for Clausen next year (as their coaching staff has links to ours) or that we finally take a shot on one of the kids entering the next draft or two. I still prefer Clausen over most of them.

I believe that Sanchez is going to be one of the top QBs in the NFL in time.

However, and I've said this before, Sanchez should have been sat on the bench for a couple of seasons, and anyone who thinks that Sanchez is going to show any real progress this year is in for a shock.

He just wasn't ready last year, and still isn't this year.

Next year is when we should start to see the light go on for him.

SNR
09-12-2010, 01:15 PM
I'm watching Detroit/Chicago right now.

Stafford makes poor reads from time to time, but MAN does he have an arm. When he knows where he wants to go, he goes there and it's a solid fucking throw.

When Matt Cassel threads a 30 yard laser like that between two defenders even ONCE this year, I will shit my pants. Not only will I shit my pants, but I'll definitely praise him in front of you all.

I have never seen him make that throw. And it's one reason why it's far more attractive to be a Lions fan right now than a Chiefs fan. And that's fucking sad, considering the plethora of high draft picks we've had in the past two years and the fact that the Chiefs never went 0 and fucking 16

BossChief
09-12-2010, 01:25 PM
I believe that Sanchez is going to be one of the top QBs in the NFL in time.

However, and I've said this before, Sanchez should have been sat on the bench for a couple of seasons, and anyone who thinks that Sanchez is going to show any real progress this year is in for a shock.

He just wasn't ready last year, and still isn't this year.

Next year is when we should start to see the light go on for him. Yeah, we were in agreement in that point before the draft. That was the 10% I was ok with drafting him.Sign Jeff Garcia and sit Sanchez till he is ready. In that scenario, I would have went into the year with

Garcia
Thigpen
Sanchez

I think adding Santonio Holmes and Tomlinson (as a protector and good dump off target) are gonna be moves that help the kid.

I think he will start off slow this year and by years end will be a lot more comfortable and will be playing the way he did in the playoffs.

Our evaluations differ by about 9 games at this point.

I'm watching Detroit/Chicago right now.

Stafford makes poor reads from time to time, but MAN does he have an arm. When he knows where he wants to go, he goes there and it's a solid fucking throw.

When Matt Cassel threads a 30 yard laser like that between two defenders even ONCE this year, I will shit my pants. Not only will I shit my pants, but I'll definitely praise him in front of you all.

I have never seen him make that throw. And it's one reason why it's far more attractive to be a Lions fan right now than a Chiefs fan. And that's fucking sad, considering the plethora of high draft picks we've had in the past two years and the fact that the Chiefs never went 0 and fucking 16

To be fair to Cassel, the pass to Bowe to end regulation in the Dallas game was pretty damn good.

DenverDanChiefsFan
09-12-2010, 01:48 PM
I'm not ****ing 50 years old, you ****ing jerkoff.

But clearly, you were right and Mike Martz, Dick Vermeil and Norv Turner were wrong.

LMAO

Go fist yourself, Dumbass.by your logic haley, pioli and belicheat are wrong as well.

Who is the dumbass?

DaneMcCloud
09-12-2010, 04:55 PM
by your logic haley, pioli and belicheat are wrong as well.

Who is the dumbass?

How so?

And FTR, we ALL know you're the dumbass.

Coogs
09-12-2010, 07:55 PM
Well he surely knows more about him than anyone else,but I just wonder how long he will "wait" for Cassel if he continues to struggle this year.

I think I have read where you know what you have in your QB once he gets past 30 starts. Going into this season, Cassel is right at 30. If he doesn't show this season, I think we are going to know the answer to your question.

I know we all heard that Cassel and Chambers hooked up on long TD passes nearly everyday in practice. And we all know Cassel did not throw but one or two balls downfield at all in preseason, and none with success. It is going to be interesting to see if the long hookups in practice show up starting tomorrow, or if we will see what we have seen all preseason long.

CoMoChief
09-12-2010, 09:36 PM
Cassel is garbage.

I just think people wanna call it as they see it.

The guy doesn't throw crisp sharp passes over 20-25 yds or so. He's not accurate, and has some of the worst pocket presence I've ever seen. He was sacked more than anyone in the NFL with one of the NFL's best Oline and offense. If he feels someone breathing on him, he goes down.

But, Cassel is Pioli's guy, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. He's gonna be the QB of this team and I dont think we go after another QB even if Cassel sucks this season.

milkman
09-12-2010, 09:43 PM
Cassel is garbage.

I just think people wanna call it as they see it.

The guy doesn't throw crisp sharp passes over 20-25 yds or so. He's not accurate, and has some of the worst pocket presence I've ever seen. He was sacked more than anyone in the NFL with one of the NFL's best Oline and offense. If he feels someone breathing on him, he goes down.

But, Cassel is Pioli's guy, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. He's gonna be the QB of this team and I dont think we go after another QB even if Cassel sucks this season.

psst......If Cassel could throw crisp, sharp passes of at least 20-25 yards, he would be a legitimate NFL QB.

Over 20-25 yards would be gravy.

googlegoogle
09-13-2010, 04:30 AM
Cassel is garbage.

I just think people wanna call it as they see it.

The guy doesn't throw crisp sharp passes over 20-25 yds or so. He's not accurate, and has some of the worst pocket presence I've ever seen. He was sacked more than anyone in the NFL with one of the NFL's best Oline and offense. If he feels someone breathing on him, he goes down.

But, Cassel is Pioli's guy, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. He's gonna be the QB of this team and I dont think we go after another QB even if Cassel sucks this season.

lets see if thats true this season. You seem to think qb's don't need any help and that it's an individual game.:shake: