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petegz28
09-17-2010, 08:52 PM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42348.html


Delaware GOP Senate candidate and tea party sensation Christine O'Donnell torched "ruling-class elites" and their "anti-Americanism," in her debut on the national stage Friday, encouraging the room of conservatives to lead a constitutional comeback in this year's midterm election.

O'Donnell's 17-minute speech before the Family Research Council's Value Voters Summit made no direct mention of her primary upset of nine-term Rep. Mike Castle Tuesday; it instead focused on the enthusiasm that's reinvigorated the conservative movement in the two years since President Obama took office.


"The conservative movement was told to curl up in a fetal position and just stay there for the next eight years, thank you very much. Well, how things have changed," O'Donnell said, to cheers.

O'Donnell, who defeated Castle by a 6-point margin despite sustained attacks on her misstatements and financial troubles – past and present — repeatedly chided "the ruling class" and championed "a rowdy revolution of reason."

"The small elite don't get us. They call us wacky. They call us wingnuts. We call us, 'We the people,'" she said to sustained applause. "We're loud, we're rowdy, we're passionate. … It isn't tame, but boy, it sure is good."

She also addressed the personal scrutiny and criticisms she has endured since her candidacy vaulted into the national spotlight just weeks ago, when she appeared to be gaining momentum against Castle in her third shot at a Senate seat.

"Will they attack us? Yes. Will they smear our backgrounds and distort our records? Undoubtedly. Will they lie about us, harass our families, namecall to try to intimidate us? They will. There's nothing safe about it. But is it worth it?" she said.

"Well, let me ask you. Is freedom worth it?" she asked, as the crowd chanted "Yes." "Is America worth it?"

She used her middle-class upbringing in New Jersey to briefly explain one of the most perplexing charges that has dogged her campaign — why it took her more than 15 years to earn her college degree from Fairleigh Dickinson University.

"I never had the high-paying job or the company car. It took me over a decade to pay off my student loans. I never had to worry about where to dock my yacht to reduce my taxes," she said, jabbing at Sen. John Kerry for dodging a six-figure yacht tax in his home state. '"And I'll bet most of you didn't, either."

O'Donnell argued that while Beltway elites are attempting to marginalize their movement, it’s conservatives who represent the core of mainstream America.


"We're not trying to take back our country. We are our country," O'Donnell said, before making a subtle reference to a phrase Obama has been using on the campaign trail. "That's what's happening in America today, the grown-ups are taking away the keys."

Continuing on that theme, the former television commentator lamented Washington bureaucrats who have "weaseled" their way into personal decisions that should be left up to individuals, using a line of attack first delivered by Sarah Palin.


"They even want unelected panels of bureaucrats to decide who gets what life-saving medical care and who is just too old, or it's too expensive to be worth saving," she said, a nod to the fictional "death panels" that Palin first used to attack the health care bill. "They'll buy your teenage daughter an abortion but they won't let her buy a sugary soda in a school's vending machine."

While O'Donnell lacked the sizzling electricity that is Palin’s trademark, her speech was smoothly delivered and well-received by the sympathetic crowd at the Omni Shoreham Hotel.

Back in May at a fundraiser for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, the president said Republicans wanted the keys back after "they drove the car into the ditch."

O’Donnell’s only other veiled reference to the president came when she spoke of "anti-Americanism" and criticized leaders for apologizing for America.

"When I talk to people out on the campaign trail in Delaware, I'm hearing frustration, not only with the direction our country is headed but with the anti-Americanism that taints every outlet of the ruling class. Americans want our leaders to defend our values, our culture, our legacy of liberty and our way of life, not apologize," she said.

O'Donnell's appearance at the Values Voter Summit marked O'Donnell's first address to a national audience. She began reintroducing herself to voters Thursday night in her first joint appearance with Democratic nominee Chris Coons at a candidate forum in Wilmington.

"It's no secret that there's been a rather unflattering portrait of me painted these days," she said during the forum. "I am fighting two political parties here in Delaware."

Just before she took the stage, O'Donnell announced via tweet that her campaign had raise more than $1.5 million in under 72 hours. "You are all amazing," she wrote.

Democrats issued no immediate reaction to O'Donnell's speech, signaling the delicacy with which they are initially handling her insurgent candidacy.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42348_Page2.html#ixzz0zqVEYka0

petegz28
09-17-2010, 08:55 PM
"They'll buy your teenage daughter an abortion but they won't let her buy a sugary soda in a school's vending machine."

I thought that was a great line. Homerun right there.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2010, 09:07 PM
I thought that was a great line. Homerun right there.

Of course you would.

LMAO

Frankie
09-17-2010, 09:17 PM
Hey Pete, if she ever becomes POTUS she won't let you play with yourself again. She said so herself.

stevieray
09-17-2010, 09:17 PM
I thought that was a great line.

it is.

sad, but true.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2010, 09:23 PM
it is.

sad, but true.

It's a great line with a double meaning.

In her world, teenagers wouldn't be able to have abortions due to government control, but children could eat any type and quantity of sugar they'd like, regardless of the health consequences.

I'll take this world for $2,000, Alex.

Keep the government out of the bedroom and better educate and raise the children.

BucEyedPea
09-17-2010, 09:42 PM
Hey Pete, if she ever becomes POTUS she won't let you play with yourself again. She said so herself.

Not if she believes in the Constitution's Federalism she won't. I don't know if she advocated govt on that stand of hers anyway.
She has a right to be an advocate for any eccentric idea she wants. But getting the govt involved on that would another matter.

BucEyedPea
09-17-2010, 09:47 PM
It's a great line with a double meaning.

In her world, teenagers wouldn't be able to have abortions due to government control, but children could eat any type and quantity of sugar they'd like, regardless of the health consequences.

I'll take this world for $2,000, Alex.

Keep the government out of the bedroom and better educate and raise the children.

No she was talking about govt buying an abortion for a teen child.....which refers to public schools providing abortions by sending them to clinics using public funds for one without the parent's knowledge or consent.

That's not keeping govt out of the bedroom, it's putting govt right in it. So is sex education putting govt in the bedroom. Are you against that?

If she's a Constitutionalist she'd have to leave abortion to the states. As it is now, if she feels it's okay for the Feds she'd have to wait for a SC case.
Her position harms no one. Her point about the sugary drink doesn't mean she supports sugary drinks. She's obviously using that to make fun of the magnitude of the alleged crimes through comparison.

BucEyedPea
09-17-2010, 09:51 PM
I thought that was a great line. Homerun right there.

I do too. Kids being sent for abortions from the school with public funds without parental consent is a complete violation of parental rights and an invasion into the home.

dirk digler
09-17-2010, 09:55 PM
I am sure it will be all over the Internet and news soon but Bill Maher showed a clip of O'Donnell from his show. She appeared on his old show around 20 times or so.

Anyway in the first clip she says she used to be a witch and one of her first dates was on a satanic alter with blood on it. LMAO

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2010, 09:56 PM
No she was talking about govt buying an abortion for a teen child.....which refers to public schools providing abortions by sending them to clinics using public funds for one without the parent's knowledge or consent.

That's not keeping govt out of the bedroom, it's putting govt right in it. So is sex education putting govt in the bedroom. Are you against that?

If she's a Constitutionalist she'd have to leave abortion to the states. As it is now, if she feels it's okay for the Feds she'd have to wait for a SC case.
Her position harms no one. Her point about the sugary drink doesn't mean she supports sugary drinks. She's obviously using that to make fun of the magnitude of the alleged crimes through comparison.

Except she's not. She against masturbation. She's a far right Christian conservative.

She can believe whatever she wants to believe, as long as she's not in a government position.

I don't think you're very familiar with her and her politics.

petegz28
09-17-2010, 09:59 PM
It's a great line with a double meaning.

In her world, teenagers wouldn't be able to have abortions due to government control, but children could eat any type and quantity of sugar they'd like, regardless of the health consequences.

I'll take this world for $2,000, Alex.

Keep the government out of the bedroom and better educate and raise the children.

I think I'd rather have a world where the Gov stays out of abortion and the diet of my kids.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2010, 10:04 PM
I think I'd rather have a world where the Gov stays out of abortion and the diet of my kids.

So what does that mean?

And have you seen the latest obesity rates in children? They're astronomical. There tens of millions of parents who are doing a shitty job because they're uneducated about nutrition.

You're aligning yourself with someone whose "battles" I am thoroughly against and in the long run, will almost certainly guarantee the Democrats maintain control.

Which is a shame.

Guru
09-17-2010, 10:11 PM
Hell, I would be all for raising the price on crap foods if they would lower the price on healthier alternatives.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2010, 10:20 PM
Hell, I would be all for raising the price on crap foods if they would lower the price on healthier alternatives.

You would LOVE Trader Joe's. They have great, healthy foods and it's far less expensive than Whole Foods.

Guru
09-17-2010, 10:25 PM
You would LOVE Trader Joe's. They have great, healthy foods and it's far less expensive than Whole Foods.Too bad they are all out west.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2010, 10:28 PM
Too bad they are all out west.

They're in the Midwest but they haven't hit KC and the surrounding areas yet. I'd bet within five years.

Guru
09-17-2010, 10:33 PM
They're in the Midwest but they haven't hit KC and the surrounding areas yet. I'd bet within five years.Hopefully sooner. I have heard a lot of good things about that place.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2010, 10:45 PM
Hopefully sooner. I have heard a lot of good things about that place.

Dude seriously, they're nothing short of awesome. Tons of great tasting gluten-free products, tons of low fat, low calorie dips, condiments and frozen foods and just all around very high quality healthy food.

My wife almost exclusively shops at TJ's. They're jammed packed around here, regardless of location.

Hopefully they'll come your way sooner rather than later.

Direckshun
09-17-2010, 10:52 PM
Mercifully, she'll be back to irrelevence here in about three months.

blaise
09-17-2010, 11:05 PM
They're in the Midwest but they haven't hit KC and the surrounding areas yet. I'd bet within five years.

The Star ran something just recently saying one is going in on Ward Parkway (they're occupying a vacant Staples store) and another in Leawood. The Leawood one won't be able to sell liquor, though.

http://economy.kansascity.com/?q=node/8330

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2010, 11:12 PM
The Star ran something just recently saying one is going in on Ward Parkway (they're occupying a vacant Staples store) and another in Leawood. The Leawood one won't be able to sell liquor, though.

http://economy.kansascity.com/?q=node/8330

I had heard about that from my family but they were unsure about the opening dates.

I'm surprised they didn't put on one or nearby The Plaza. It seems perfect for those residents.

Bewbies
09-18-2010, 12:32 AM
There tens of millions of parents who are doing a shitty job because they're uneducated about nutrition.



I wonder who it is that educated them so poorly?

The very government that is at fault for not educating parents about nutrition should take more control of what kids can eat because they know better?

:Poke:

Bewbies
09-18-2010, 12:37 AM
You would LOVE Trader Joe's. They have great, healthy foods and it's far less expensive than Whole Foods.

I 2nd this, Trader Joe's is awesome.

JohnnyV13
09-18-2010, 02:04 AM
O Donnell advocates teaching creationism in schools, and calls evolution "evil" and built on poor science.

That makes O Donnell a religious conservative that's glommed onto the tea party movement (and, to my mind, too stupid to elect to public office).

O Donnell defaulted on her home mortgage in 2008. Funny how she lambasts government for spending money it doesn't have. I wonder how she can fix the federal deficit when she can't even figure out how to pay her own loan.

That's the not the first time she's defaulted on a loan. She also defaulted on her college loan, which is why she didn't graduate from college until 2010 (after graduating hs in 1987). She walked in a graduation ceremony in 1993, but didn't get her degree for defaulting on her school loan. She lost a judgment on her school loan in the mid nineties.

Her first job was as a political lobbyist for an anti pornography group. Then she founded SALT, another religious conservative group devoted to promoting christian values (particularly sexual) among college age adults.

She then worked for a conservative think tank called ISI, but was fired after one year. She claims they fired her in retaliation for a sex discrimination complaint. She sued for wrongful termination with a 6.9 million claim.

She dropped this suit in 2008, claiming she "ran out of money to pay a lawyer". This phrase is key. It means her claim was such BS, no lawyer would take it for contingency. To continue, she would need to pay the lawyer on an hourly fee basis.

Also, in 2008 two of her campaign workers complained she had funneled campaign money to herself for "rent" and "personal expenses" while she left her campaign workers go unpaid.

Her claim is that "rent", was because she used her own house as a campaign office.

I don't understand how someone who can't keep her own checkbook can be a legitimate fiscal conservative.

bandwagonjumper
09-18-2010, 02:19 AM
The only thing that matter is that her heart is on the RIGHT place. Honestly even if the tea baggers were a serious political movement and one can argue it has a lot of political merit but at the moment its full of political opportunists and leeches like O'Donnell.

ROYC75
09-18-2010, 02:50 AM
Except she's not. She against masturbation. She's a far right Christian conservative.

She can believe whatever she wants to believe, as long as she's not in a government position.

I don't think you're very familiar with her and her politics.

She makes more common sense that the Liberal BS coming from the current administration.:doh!:

BucEyedPea
09-18-2010, 06:32 AM
O Donnell advocates teaching creationism in schools, and calls evolution "evil" and built on poor science.


Yet, none of that has anything to do with the Federal Govt's authority.
Whereas the damage Obama creates affects the nation as a whole.

As to her experience Obama was as a community activist before being in the Senate. The left's positions reeks of elitism and snobbery as if only experts can run for office because we need experts to run our lives. If she gets more govt off our backs we won't need stinkin' experts. You guys follow Plato's Philosopher King model.

The financial irregularities are a problem, but I'd say she fits right in with the rest of them up there when you look at the budget, the deficit, the debt and the reckless spending as well as the amount of tax cheats that are being revealed. So that aspect is a toss up.

BucEyedPea
09-18-2010, 06:44 AM
Except she's not. She against masturbation. She's a far right Christian conservative.
Believe it or not many conservatives do believe in the Constitution and govt off their backs on more things than the left. They also support local control more. That sould be where the social values fights should be fought. There are some that try to beat the left at their game ( because the left has centralized so much they are left playing the left's centralization game) but I'd have to see some evidence that she's a over-centralizing type conservative. She'd probably not vote for funds for abortion. I don't think she'd overturn Roe v Wade. She can't.

I doubt she'd get any traction in congress for some masturbation initiative.

She can believe whatever she wants to believe, as long as she's not in a government position.
That's discrimination on the basis of religion and creed. There's no religious litmus test for running for office. Anyone can believe what they want AND run for office.
Let the people decide if they want her.

That's like saying an atheist can't run. Or a Mormon. Now it's if you're a devout Catholic? We don't live in the Soviet Union where we regulate religion.

I don't think you're very familiar with her and her politics.
I know what's being revealed about her as it comes out now just like everyone else. So far I know about her social values as a religious conservative. I don't know as much about what role govt should play in it.

I do know she is someone who would repeal the HC bill. I like that part. If she's a devout Catholic, they tend to lean anti-war in the ME. I need to hear more on this but if she is, I like that too.

Anyway, I was just trying to explain that she was just using a datum of comparable magnitude. Perhaps she should have chosen that fisting was taught in public schools instead. She's just eccentric. I don't see that as that destructive or harmful—least not compared to what the far left is doing to this country.

Bwana
09-18-2010, 06:46 AM
Mercifully, she'll be back to irrelevence here in about three months.

Kind of like the libs, in the house.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Cn61JM4kNR8/TCI4QOpam9I/AAAAAAAAA_I/XinTZl5fPt4/s1600/pink+slip+for+Obama.jpg

BucEyedPea
09-18-2010, 06:49 AM
I am sure it will be all over the Internet and news soon but Bill Maher showed a clip of O'Donnell from his show. She appeared on his old show around 20 times or so.

Anyway in the first clip she says she used to be a witch and one of her first dates was on a satanic alter with blood on it. LMAO

Kinda like the Rev Wright replays by Fox over and over.

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 07:32 AM
Hey Pete, if she ever becomes POTUS she won't let you play with yourself again. She said so herself.

Link?

patteeu
09-18-2010, 09:35 AM
Except she's not. She against masturbation. She's a far right Christian conservative.

She can believe whatever she wants to believe, as long as she's not in a government position.

I don't think you're very familiar with her and her politics.

I'd say you seem to be in the same boat.

I'm against eyebrow piercings, but that doesn't mean I want to make them illegal.

Even if she still considers masturbation a sin, it doesn't mean she wants to criminalize it. There are lots of activities that are commonly thought of as sinful by those in the mainstream that very few people would want to criminalize ( e.g. adultery and lying).

KC Jones
09-18-2010, 10:54 AM
Kinda like the Rev Wright replays by Fox over and over.

Difference being, this time it's the actual candidate not someone they know or have a relationship with.

mlyonsd
09-18-2010, 11:47 AM
Hey Pete, if she ever becomes POTUS she won't let you play with yourself again. She said so herself.

Kind of like Obama and his stance that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry?

Frankie
09-18-2010, 11:48 AM
No she was talking about govt buying an abortion for a teen child......

Do you think that she as a senator will be trying to pass a law to make abortion of any reason illegal?

Frankie
09-18-2010, 11:50 AM
I am sure it will be all over the Internet and news soon but Bill Maher showed a clip of O'Donnell from his show. She appeared on his old show around 20 times or so.

Anyway in the first clip she says she used to be a witch and one of her first dates was on a satanic alter with blood on it. LMAO

Pete's new hero. ROFL

Watch from 0:55 to 1:40

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Frankie
09-18-2010, 11:55 AM
Mercifully, she'll be back to irrelevence here in about three months.

I hope so. But this country elected and re-elected George Bush. I'm pretty concerned about the gullibility of some voters.

ClevelandBronco
09-18-2010, 12:01 PM
She can believe whatever she wants to believe, as long as she's not in a government position.

I'm going to assume that this is just an awkward sentence and that you don't actually believe what it says.

BucEyedPea
09-18-2010, 12:06 PM
Do you think that she as a senator will be trying to pass a law to make abortion of any reason illegal?

I think my previous post answers this. She can't. If she tries it will get zero traction. There would have to be enough who think like here. Then there's the SC. It would take another case to change it. Unless she wants an Amendment which would likely fail. There's just as many pro-choice Rs and Rs that think it belongs with the states.

I do think she'd vote to stop funds for abortions, including in schools and abroad.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 12:10 PM
I'd say you seem to be in the same boat.

I'm against eyebrow piercings, but that doesn't mean I want to make them illegal.

Even if she still considers masturbation a sin, it doesn't mean she wants to criminalize it. There are lots of activities that are commonly thought of as sinful by those in the mainstream that very few people would want to criminalize ( e.g. adultery and lying).

Wow, thanks for filling me in, Pat. JFC, you're slipping, BIG TIME.

Did you know she used to be a Wiccan? Did you know her house was recently repo'd?

Seriously, do you know ANYTHING about her?

She's a fucking nut. Bottom line, end of story.

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 12:21 PM
Wow, thanks for filling me in, Pat. JFC, you're slipping, BIG TIME.

Did you know she used to be a Wiccan? Did you know her house was recently repo'd?

Seriously, do you know ANYTHING about her?

She's a fucking nut. Bottom line, end of story.

This!! IMO all debates from Congressional office should hit these imperative issues HARD!!

"OK, we're gonna just dispense with your platform on fiscal and social issues and get to the meat of the matter, have you ever dabbled in Wicca? Ever had a home reposessed? The people have a right to know about the pressing issues in their lives."

BucEyedPea
09-18-2010, 12:24 PM
This!! IMO all debates from Congressional office should hit these imperative issues HARD!!

"OK, we're gonna just dispense with your platform on fiscal and social issues and get to the meat of the matter, have you ever dabbled in Wicca? Ever had a home reposessed? The people have a right to know about the pressing issues in their lives."

LMAO That's about the size of it.

I will concede, at least, she's a disappointing choice for the right. If it were congress it would only be a two year stint.

patteeu
09-18-2010, 12:24 PM
Wow, thanks for filling me in, Pat. JFC, you're slipping, BIG TIME.

Did you know she used to be a Wiccan? Did you know her house was recently repo'd?

Seriously, do you know ANYTHING about her?

She's a ****ing nut. Bottom line, end of story.

Yes, I know these things. I don't consider myself terribly informed about her, but it's pretty clear that you don't have me at any disadvantage in this regard. I do have the advantage that I'm not Christophobic though.

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 12:31 PM
LMAO That's about the size of it.

I will concede, at least, she's a disappointing choice for the right. If it were congress it would only be a two year stint.

I'm no particular fan of hers, I recall firsthand rolling my eyes at her brand of crazy when those Maher episodes first aired. But ad hoc definitive deal-breakers that are completely non-platform related continue to crack me up.

Drunken driving leads to a girl left for dead? meh.
House repo-d? OMGWTFSMURFANAL!!!!!
quid pro quos on committee action for relative's $$ gain? that's the dirty business of politics
Tap your toes in a bathroom stall. KILL THIS MAN!!!!
Lying about BJs? Boys will be boys.
Misunderestimated isn't a word? HARI KARI GGGPPPRRRRRRGGGHHH!!!!

Calcountry
09-18-2010, 12:33 PM
Kind of like the libs, in the house.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Cn61JM4kNR8/TCI4QOpam9I/AAAAAAAAA_I/XinTZl5fPt4/s1600/pink+slip+for+Obama.jpgNow, would you kindly
GTFO!!!

Calcountry
09-18-2010, 12:39 PM
There is one thing positive about her nomination: We don't have to worry about Mike Castle switching parties to give the Dems a majority when we have 51 senators, like that back stabbing piece of s*** Jim Jeffords did back in 2001.

There is no point to it anymore. Fug em. Might as well have a Demoncrat, at least you know where they stand, except for right before an election if you believe their commercials. Amazing how none of these elitist, shove it down our throat suns a bitches even want to talk about the "historic achievement" anymore. Cowards.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 12:41 PM
I do have the advantage that I'm not Christophobic though.

Good for you.

It seems to me like the Tea Party is the perfect party for you, except I'm not sure if you're "white" enough.

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 12:44 PM
Good for you.

It seems to me like the Tea Party is the perfect party for you, except I'm not sure if you're "white" enough.

How white does he have to be, Dane?

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:06 PM
How white does he have to be, Dane?

It's my impression that the Tea Party is mainly for the super-white, ultra-Christian conservatives. People that want a war with Islam and don't care for Hispanics or Blacks.

The party comes across as a bunch of nutjobs that are mainly concerned with "taking the country back", which in other words means getting rid of anyone in power that's of color or non-Christian.

Power belongs to the White man.

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 01:07 PM
It's my impression that the Tea Party is mainly for the super-white, ultra-Christian conservatives. People that want a war with Islam and don't care for Hispanics or Blacks.

The party comes across as a bunch of nutjobs that are mainly concerned with "taking the country back", which in other words means getting rid of anyone in power that's of color or non-Christian.

Power belongs to the White man.

Did Janeane tell you that personally, or did you read it in her tweets? ;)

Frankie
09-18-2010, 01:07 PM
I think my previous post answers this. She can't. If she tries it will get zero traction. There would have to be enough who think like here. Then there's the SC. It would take another case to change it. Unless she wants an Amendment which would likely fail. There's just as many pro-choice Rs and Rs that think it belongs with the states.

I do think she'd vote to stop funds for abortions, including in schools and abroad.

Then how many like her can we allow into the senate to avoid what I said?

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:09 PM
Did Janeane tell you that personally, or did you read it in her tweets? ;)

Who? Seriously, who?

I don't listen to or watch political television or radio. My opinions are based on the articles I've read and the clips that I've seen of the Tea Party.

I have no political agenda and would prefer that Washington is gridlocked. But these Tea Party nutbags are going to make it difficult for the GOP in November, meaning the Democrats may likely stay in power.

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 01:10 PM
Then how many like her can we allow into the senate to avoid what I said?

Seeing as it would involve a filibuster proof complete makeover of the Supreme Court, however many that is would be a pretty definitive statement of National support

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 01:13 PM
Who? Seriously, who?

I don't listen to or watch political television or radio. My opinions are based on the articles I've read and the clips that I've seen of the Tea Party.

I have no political agenda and would prefer that Washington is gridlocked. But these Tea Party nutbags are going to make it difficult for the GOP in November, meaning the Democrats may likely stay in power.

In the interest of educating me, could you provide links to these articles and clips that provide such a vivid impression?

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:16 PM
In the interest of educating me, could you provide links to these articles and clips that provide such a vivid impression?

I've been reading about them all year.

Would you care to provide information to the contrary?

Are they NOT ultra-conservatives? Are they NOT ultra-Christians?

Wasn't a leader of the Tea Party dumped earlier this year due to his racism?

Is Christine O'Donnell NOT a fucking idiot?

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 01:23 PM
I've been reading about them all year.

Would you care to provide information to the contrary?

Are they NOT ultra-conservatives? Are they NOT ultra-Christians?

Wasn't a leader of the Tea Party dumped earlier this year due to his racism?

Is Christine O'Donnell NOT a fucking idiot?

My impression is you like touching little boys, you've been yourself your entire fucking life, would you care to provide information to the contrary?

Is that how this works?

You're the one asserting a clear impression, and citing articles and video footage that inexorably demands said impression. I don't share you impression at present. If the information is so clear and convincing, you'd be doing yourself, me, and countless others on here a favor by posting it. Why would you shirk that opportunity.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:25 PM
My impression is you like touching little boys, you've been yourself your entire fucking life, would you care to provide information to the contrary?

Is that how this works?

You're the one asserting a clear impression, and citing articles and video footage that inexorably demands said impression. I don't share you impression at present. If the information is so clear and convincing, you'd be doing yourself, me, and countless others on here a favor by posting it. Why would you shirk that opportunity.

Because quite honestly, I don't give a fuck about you.

My impression is my impression and I've seen or heard absolutely nothing to persuade me to the contrary.

And in your usual fashion, you've provided absolutely no information, either.

You're like Donger-Lite, except for the fact that I actually like Donger.

Calcountry
09-18-2010, 01:33 PM
It's my impression that the Tea Party is mainly for the super-white, ultra-Christian conservatives. People that want a war with Islam and don't care for Hispanics or Blacks.

The party comes across as a bunch of nutjobs that are mainly concerned with "taking the country back", which in other words means getting rid of anyone in power that's of color or non-Christian.

Power belongs to the White man.You are a bigoted racist. I am sorry for you, perhaps you should seek some sensitivity training?

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 01:34 PM
Because quite honestly, I don't give a fuck about you.
It's the 'passing into puberty' part, isn't it. ROFL.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:35 PM
You are a bigoted racist. I am sorry for you, perhaps you should seek some sensitivity training?

Excuse me?

Calcountry
09-18-2010, 01:37 PM
I hope so. But this country elected and re-elected George Bush. I'm pretty concerned about the gullibility of some voters.You need to be.

Calcountry
09-18-2010, 01:38 PM
Excuse me?What is a "Super White Person". I am not familiar with this sort of person.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:39 PM
It's the 'passing into puberty' part, isn't it. ROFL.

No.

It's nothing personal, I'm just not a fan of lawyer-speak.

I hope you'll enjoy your new career much better.

blaise
09-18-2010, 01:41 PM
What is a "Super White Person". I am not familiar with this sort of person.

They can shop at the Gap with super powers and then enjoy Country Music at the speed of light.

Calcountry
09-18-2010, 01:41 PM
What is a "Super White Person". I am not familiar with this sort of person.The NAACP, started by anglo's, is a , by your words, "super-black organization".

As if, there is something wrong with the composition of the party. I mean, WTF dude. 91% of the African american population votes Democrat. So, does that make me racist, if I see an African American and assume that he voted for a Democrat? BO is president, because he got "super-white" people to vote for him. Perhaps, your tears this november will be due to those same "super-white" people?

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:42 PM
What is a "Super White Person". I am not familiar with this sort of person.

Is this a joke or a serious question?

The Tea Party is far right of the Republican Party. The Republican Party is far too white for my tastes these days (Did you see the Republican National Convention on television? It's a bunch of white old-fogies).

The Tea Party is more conservative and more religious than the Republican party. I don't care for their politics one damn bit and to deny their racist element is naive.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:44 PM
The NAACP, started by anglo's, is a , by your words, "super-black organization".

As if, there is something wrong with the composition of the party. I mean, WTF dude. 91% of the African american population votes Democrat. So, does that make me racist, if I see an African American and assume that he voted for a Democrat? BO is president, because he got "super-white" people to vote for him. Perhaps, your tears this november will be due to those same "super-white" people?

The racial makeup of this country is not the same as it was in the 50's or even the 60's, yet the Republicans continue to pander to whites. The Tea Party has taken that a step further.

And yes, I've always considered you, based on your posts, to be a racist.

go bowe
09-18-2010, 01:44 PM
No.

It's nothing personal, I'm just not a fan of lawyer-speak.

I hope you'll enjoy your new career much better.lawyer-speak?

wtf is wrong with you?

you don't know a fucking thing about lawyer-fucking-speak, you dumb fuck...

if you had a fucking idea that you haven't pulled out of the fucking ass, it would be stillborn, you faggot fuck...

oh, wait...

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:45 PM
lawyer-speak?

wtf is wrong with you?

you don't know a fucking thing about lawyer-fucking-speak, you dumb fuck...

if you had a fucking idea that you haven't pulled out of the fucking ass, it would be stillborn, you faggot fuck...

oh, wait...

LMAO

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2010, 01:45 PM
It's a great line with a double meaning.

In her world, teenagers wouldn't be able to have abortions due to government control, but children could eat any type and quantity of sugar they'd like, regardless of the health consequences.

I'll take this world for $2,000, Alex.

Keep the government out of the bedroom and better educate and raise the children.


This is a bullshit strawman comment Dane. You're smarter than this.

Calcountry
09-18-2010, 01:46 PM
The racial makeup of this country is not the same as it was in the 50's or even the 60's, yet the Republicans continue to pander to whites. The Tea Party has taken that a step further.

No doubt about it, then why do race hustlers like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton still have a job?

go bowe
09-18-2010, 01:46 PM
The racial makeup of this country is not the same as it was in the 50's or even the 60's, yet the Republicans continue to pander to whites. The Tea Party has taken that a step further.

And yes, I've always considered you, based on your posts, to be a racist.oh shit, now i have to unignore all the whackos just to find out who you are talking to...

oh wait, you could tell me...

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2010, 01:49 PM
Except she's not. She against masturbation. She's a far right Christian conservative.

She can believe whatever she wants to believe, as long as she's not in a government position.

I don't think you're very familiar with her and her politics.


I've familiarized myself with her politics and she's gone on the record in the past few days saying her personal beliefs will not dictate her vote pattern. The Constitution will. I'll take this over that Cooms guys who Harry Reid called his "Pet".

go bowe
09-18-2010, 01:49 PM
This is a bullshit strawman comment Dane. You're smarter than this.no, dane is not smarter than that...

he's obviouly a pinko rat-faced donks fan on steroids...

oh wait, shannahan is in washington now isn't he?

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:51 PM
This is a bullshit strawman comment Dane. You're smarter than this.

Bullshit.

If you can't read through this rhetoric, it's not my fault.

Again, do you know anything about this dipshit?

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 01:51 PM
Oh, and thanks for offering up your clear and self-evident assessment like people haven't made similar assessments and had them critiqued on this board before, let alone a year before.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=215454

Not sure what your end game is. You offer an opinion of the Tea Party, and say there's clear and compelling evidence to reinforce it. Yet when someone requests said clear and compelling evidence to review for themselves, you state you don't 'give a fuck' about them. Are you under the impression that your estimation of me affects by ability to vote? Are you under the impression that if you reply to my request I'll be the only person on earth able to see said reply?

There couldn't be a darker motivation to your refusal to document your assertion, something involving anal bloviation?

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2010, 01:52 PM
It's my impression that the Tea Party is mainly for the super-white, ultra-Christian conservatives. People that want a war with Islam and don't care for Hispanics or Blacks.

The party comes across as a bunch of nutjobs that are mainly concerned with "taking the country back", which in other words means getting rid of anyone in power that's of color or non-Christian.

Power belongs to the White man.

This is complete bullcrap.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:52 PM
I've familiarized myself with her politics and she's gone on the record in the past few days saying her personal beliefs will not dictate her vote pattern. The Constitution will. I'll take this over that Cooms guys who Harry Reid called his "Pet".

Sorry, I don't buy it.

This is a person who's been lost in life, tried various religions, lost her home - all kinds of shit.

She's a whacko and has no business in government.

There's already enough whackos in DC.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:54 PM
This is complete bullcrap.

Why?

Are you telling me that leaders haven't been expelled due to racism? Are you telling me that the Tea Party isn't at the extreme right of the Republican Party and if so, are you claiming that extreme right-thinking people are Hispanic, Asian and Black?

go bowe
09-18-2010, 01:54 PM
I've familiarized myself with her politics and she's gone on the record in the past few days saying her personal beliefs will not dictate her vote pattern. The Constitution will. I'll take this over that Cooms guys who Harry Reid called his "Pet".what's this?

is she a freaking moderate?

no principles, no moral absolutism?

just a wishy-washy moral relativist?

can't the tea party find anyone who stands up for their principles?

they may as well elect a democrat...

go bowe
09-18-2010, 01:55 PM
what's this?

is she a freaking moderate?

no principles, no moral absolutism?

just a wishy-washy moral relativist?

can't the tea party find anyone who stands up for their principles?

they may as well elect a democrat...oh wait, they ARE going to elect a democrat...

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 01:56 PM
There couldn't be a darker motivation to your refusal to document your assertion, something involving anal bloviation?

You are truly a fucking idiot.

go bowe
09-18-2010, 01:58 PM
Why?

Are you telling me that leaders haven't been expelled due to racism? Are you telling me that the Tea Party isn't at the extreme right of the Republican Party and if so, are you claiming that extreme right-thinking people are Hispanic, Asian and Black?well sure they are...

there are nuts in every forest...

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2010, 02:00 PM
Bullshit.

If you can't read through this rhetoric, it's not my fault.

Again, do you know anything about this dipshit?

Yeah, I've seen her old MTV appearances, Bill Maher. She's obviously an overzealous Catholic and has some odd beliefs. That being said this election isn't about social issues, it's about fiscal issues and on that front she'll vote for taking a pick ax to Govt. spending. I'm all for that. I'm all for eliminating entire Agencies and returning that power to the States. I'm tired of faceless technocrats who are unelected making policy for pols and running up monstrous debt. I want to gut the Washington power structure and bring it back down to size.

In the final analysis, I could really care less if Christine O'Donnell doesn't want to pat her button on slow night in Dover as long as she votes for my agenda above.

Hell, I might just have to contribute a few hundy to her campaign.

patteeu
09-18-2010, 02:00 PM
It's my impression that the Tea Party is mainly for the super-white, ultra-Christian conservatives. People that want a war with Islam and don't care for Hispanics or Blacks.

The party comes across as a bunch of nutjobs that are mainly concerned with "taking the country back", which in other words means getting rid of anyone in power that's of color or non-Christian.

Power belongs to the White man.

It sounds like you aren't keeping yourself very informed these days. I'd stop reading whatever it is that you're reading to avoid any further damage to your perception of reality.

The tea party movement is made up of a fairly ideologically diverse group of people. The unifying themes, to the extent that there are any, have nothing to do with "war with Islam", religious affiliation, or race. Instead, the tea party movement is centered around a distrust of government power and of career politicians. Small government and low taxes are among the more popular ideas among tea partiers.

The group is dramatically split on foreign policy with many in the neo-isolationist camp of Ron Paul and others favoring a more Reaganesque/neocon forward-deployed, peace-through-strength model. With such a wide range of views, I think it's fair to say that foreign policy plays almost no role in the tea party movement. Ditto for social conservatism because the movement includes both live-and-let-live libertarians and anti-masturbation American revivalists.

stevieray
09-18-2010, 02:01 PM
oh geez....when you start seeing the whining and character assassinations and the BS stereotypes..you know the tea party is doing something right.

funny considering so many won't even look at this admin honestly and closely enough to even turn their eyes away

HUUUUUUUUUUUGE double standard.

black liberation theology for twenty years? no biggie, you're just racist and white.

new spiritual advisor is marxist and believes in redistribution of wealth...who cares?

wiccan in your past? OMFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFG.

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 02:02 PM
You are truly a fucking idiot.

Have we reached the point where you declare victory over the entirety of the internets, or is it just really REALLY pending?

I may truly be a fucking idiot, but even I can distinguish between assertion and persuasion, even if they are multi-syllabic terms.

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2010, 02:03 PM
It sounds like you aren't keeping yourself very informed these days. I'd stop reading whatever it is that you're reading to avoid any further damage to your perception of reality.

The tea party movement is made up of a fairly ideologically diverse group of people. The unifying themes, to the extent that there are any, have nothing to do with "war with Islam", religious affiliation, or race. Instead, the tea party movement is centered around a distrust of government power and of career politicians. Small government and low taxes are among the more popular ideas among tea partiers.

The group is dramatically split on foreign policy with many in the neo-isolationist camp of Ron Paul and others favoring a more Reaganesque/neocon forward-deployed, peace-through-strength model. With such a wide range of views, I think it's fair to say that foreign policy plays almost no role in the tea party movement. Ditto for social conservatism because the movement includes both live-and-let-live libertarians and anti-masturbation American revivalists.

This. Well said.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 02:04 PM
oh geez....when you start seeing the whining and character assasinations and the BS stereotypes..you know the tea party is doing something right.

funny considering aso many won't even look at this admin honestly and closely enough to even turn their eyes away

HUUUUUUUUUUUGE double standard.

black liberation theology for twenty years? no biggie, you're just racist and white.

wiccan? OMFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFG.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see gridlock in DC as soon as possible.

But I'd prefer that unqualified nutbags like O'Donnell and Palin stay as far away as possible.

And I haven't seen even ONE Tea Party candidate that I could ever support. No way, no how.

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2010, 02:04 PM
Dane. Are you voting for Fiorina or Boxer?

patteeu
09-18-2010, 02:05 PM
What is a "Super White Person". I am not familiar with this sort of person.

According to what Dane reads, it's people like the guy holding this sign:

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000974821/black_man_tea_party_xlarge.jpeg

patteeu
09-18-2010, 02:07 PM
They can shop at the Gap with super powers and then enjoy Country Music at the speed of light.

You crack me up. LMAO

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 02:07 PM
It sounds like you aren't keeping yourself very informed these days. I'd stop reading whatever it is that you're reading to avoid any further damage to your perception of reality.

The tea party movement is made up of a fairly ideologically diverse group of people. The unifying themes, to the extent that there are any, have nothing to do with "war with Islam", religious affiliation, or race. Instead, the tea party movement is centered around a distrust of government power and of career politicians. Small government and low taxes are among the more popular ideas among tea partiers.

The group is dramatically split on foreign policy with many in the neo-isolationist camp of Ron Paul and others favoring a more Reaganesque/neocon forward-deployed, peace-through-strength model. With such a wide range of views, I think it's fair to say that foreign policy plays almost no role in the tea party movement. Ditto for social conservatism because the movement includes both live-and-let-live libertarians and anti-masturbation American revivalists.

So then basically, you're describing a free-for-all, where one candidate's message and agenda may be completely different from another candidate's message from the same party.

Nice.

Furthermore, it's really of no consequence to me because in the state in which I live is decidedly for the Democrats, regardless of the fact that it's the most poorly managed state in the nation.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 02:08 PM
Dane. Are you voting for Fiorina or Boxer?

Fiorina and Whitman.

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2010, 02:14 PM
Fiorina and Whitman.

That's how I'd roll if I was a California Resident. You do realize that in L.A. that makes you a right wing nut job. :)

patteeu
09-18-2010, 02:15 PM
So then basically, you're describing a free-for-all, where one candidate's message and agenda may be completely different from another candidate's message from the same party.

Nice.

Furthermore, it's really of no consequence to me because in the state in which I live is decidedly for the Democrats, regardless of the fact that it's the most poorly managed state in the nation.

It's not a political party, Dane. It's a movement made up of people who are tired of big, bad government continuously getting bigger and worse. And yes, I'm telling you that hearing the term "tea party candidate" is not enough to satisfy your due diligence as a voter.

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 02:15 PM
So then basically, you're describing a free-for-all, where one candidate's message and agenda may be completely different from another candidate's message from the same party.

Nice.

Furthermore, it's really of no consequence to me because in the state in which I live is decidedly for the Democrats, regardless of the fact that it's the most poorly managed state in the nation.

WTF? They're too monolithic, and too white, and too Christian and too retro, . . . and too diverse, and too contrarian, and not cohesive enough.

So sad Danedilocks can't find baby bear's bowl of porridge.

ClevelandBronco
09-18-2010, 02:15 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see gridlock in DC as soon as possible.

But I'd prefer that unqualified nutbags like O'Donnell and Palin stay as far away as possible.

And I haven't seen even ONE Tea Party candidate that I could ever support. No way, no how.

How do you reconcile your insistence that all career politicians should be voted out with your distrust of anyone with no experience?


Or am I reading too much into the word "unqualified"?

BucEyedPea
09-18-2010, 02:18 PM
The group is dramatically split on foreign policy with many in the non interventionist camp of Ron Paul, or the foreign policy realist camp of Reagan and others favoring the left-wing neo-mercantiilist neocon wars of aggression, offense and empire model circa 1930's Germany, Napoleon, Roman and British Empires. With such a wide range of views, I think it's fair to say that foreign policy plays almost no role in the tea party movement. Ditto for social conservatism because the movement includes both live-and-let-live libertarians and anti-masturbation American revivalists.

Corrected for accuracy over Bill Kristol/Podheretz-Trotsky spin.

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2010, 02:23 PM
Why?

Are you telling me that leaders haven't been expelled due to racism? Are you telling me that the Tea Party isn't at the extreme right of the Republican Party and if so, are you claiming that extreme right-thinking people are Hispanic, Asian and Black?

I think the Tea Party is older and whiter than the National demo. That being said I don't think it's even remotely biased towards age or color. I think it's a fiscally driven movement that wants Govt. to stay away from the traditional definition of the American Dream.

I don't think it's a movement trying to outlaw abortion or about keeping Gays from getting married. There are probably some small elements of that but it's about elminating the social engineering of the USA to fit some kind of European statist model. The tea party Is a generator of various traditional beliefs but overall it's about restoring the concept of American exceptionalism and rewarding those who succeed in the marketplace of ideas by risking their capital. I'm all for that.

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 02:24 PM
I think the Tea Party is older and whiter than the National demo. That being said I don't think it's even remotely biased towards age or color. I think it's a fiscally driven movement that wants Govt. to stay away from the traditional definition of the American Dream.

I don't think it's a movement trying to outlaw abortion or about keeping Gays from getting married. There are probably some small elements of that but it's about elminating the social engineering of the USA to fit some kind of European statist model. The tea party Is a generator of various traditional beliefs but overall it's about restoring the concept of American exceptionalism and rewarding those who succeed in the marketplace of ideas by risking their capital. I'm all for that.

To be fair, it appears you are still angling for one of those bitchin' mini-giraffes.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 02:27 PM
Or am I reading too much into the word "unqualified"?

Yes.

I'd prefer that our government is made of up highly educated and smart individuals. While I realize this isn't always going to be the case, I am especially turned off by beauty queens and people that can't even manage their own lives.

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2010, 02:32 PM
To be fair, it appears you are still angling for one of those bitchin' mini-giraffes.

If I could buy one of those things my dog would be history. :)

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 02:32 PM
I think the Tea Party is older and whiter than the National demo. That being said I don't think it's even remotely biased towards age or color. I think it's a fiscally driven movement that wants Govt. to stay away from the traditional definition of the American Dream.

I don't think it's a movement trying to outlaw abortion or about keeping Gays from getting married. There are probably some small elements of that but it's about elminating the social engineering of the USA to fit some kind of European statist model. The tea party Is a generator of various traditional beliefs but overall it's about restoring the concept of American exceptionalism and rewarding those who succeed in the marketplace of ideas by risking their capital. I'm all for that.

I'm a fiscal conservative and socially liberal. Unfortunately, those two things do not co-exist these days.

With that said, I've read enough negative press about the dysfunction in the Tea Party to turn me off, as if Sarah Palin wasn't enough to do that by herself.

Frankie
09-18-2010, 02:32 PM
Seeing as it would involve a filibuster proof complete makeover of the Supreme Court, however many that is would be a pretty definitive statement of National support

That was a rhetorical question. The point was some craziness needs to be nipped at the bud. We have enough trouble and scandals with vetted candidates after they make it to the congress. We should probably keep unvetted crazy radical nutjobs like this woman out right away.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 02:34 PM
Or am I reading too much into the word "unqualified"?

Just to further my response, I will be voting for Carly Fiorina and Meg Whitman come November, both of whom have no prior political experience but have had the experience of successfully running multi-national corporations.

I hope that my fellow Californians wake up and vote for them as well, but it could be a tall order. This state is insanely corrupt but it's also enabled by its citizens.

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2010, 02:35 PM
Yes.

I'd prefer that our government is made of up highly educated and smart individuals. While I realize this isn't always going to be the case, I am especially turned off by beauty queens and people that can't even manage their own lives.

I agree with you in principle. In most years I'd be as outspoken as you on this subject. The problem is the Govt. on both sides has too many entrenched pointy headed aholes who are treating the American people like we're not good enough to make our own decisions. As flawed as she is O'Donnell and others like her is America's way of saying FOOK you to the elites in both parties and I'm all for it.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 02:39 PM
As flawed as she is O'Donnell and others like her is America's way of saying FOOK you to the elites in both parties and I'm all for it.

I can't do that. I can't vote for someone that can't maintain control over their own life. I can't vote for someone that I don't respect. I can't vote for someone that I think is a babbling moron.

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 02:41 PM
That was a rhetorical question. The point was some craziness needs to be nipped at the bud. We have enough trouble and scandals with vetted candidates after they make it to the congress. We should probably keep unvetted crazy radical nutjobs like this woman out right away.

If that was indeed your point, I think you actually set it back with said 'rhetorical question.'

Frankie: We can't elect her, she might enact crazy legislation.
BEP: She won't have the support and the crazy legislation you envision her pushing isn't her focus, fiscal matters are.
Frankie: What if she gets enough supporters to make crazy legislation viable?
Me: Considering it envisions filibuster-proof reordering of the SC . . . .
Frankie: Yeah, probably will never happen, but it could, but it won't, but aren't you scared, there's no reason to be scared, but aren't you anyways. . . . .

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-18-2010, 02:47 PM
Just to further my response, I will be voting for Carly Fiorina and Meg Whitman come November, both of whom have no prior political experience but have had the experience of successfully running multi-national corporations.

I hope that my fellow Californians wake up and vote for them as well, but it could be a tall order. This state is insanely corrupt but it's also enabled by its citizens.

I hope you're joking, because Carly Fiorina almost ran HP into the ground. She's one of the worst CEOs in modern history, at least according to Conde Nast. Their stock value plummeted under her "leadership" and she was widely viewed as a complete hack. She was a consummate self-promoter, but a horrendous executive.

Hell, after she announced her departure the company stock, which lost half its value under her tenure, went up significantly in value.

Here's another take on her tenure from Infoworld:

"6. Carly Fiorina. Call her the anti-Steve Jobs. During her 1999-2005 tenure as CEO of Hewlett-Packard, Carly Fiorina proved that she could reverse decades of geek goodwill and alienate customers like no one else. She oversaw the spin-off of HP's well-respected instruments and medical equipment business, outsourced its beloved calculator division, then issued 7,000 pink slips. Under Fiorina's tenure, HP brought in more profits from printer ink than PCs. But she'll be remembered most for HP's acquisition of Compaq (http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/09/07/010907hnhpreax.html), among other dubious efforts to give the "stodgy" HP a more consumer-friendly face (does anyone remember the licensed iPods?).
HP's stock price sagged under Fiorina, but she still walked away with a $21 million severance bonus. Not bad, considering that HP began in a garage with just $538 (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/garage/timeline.html) in capital."

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 02:52 PM
I hope you're joking, because Carly Fiorina almost ran HP into the ground. She's one of the worst CEOs in modern history, at least according to Conde Nast. Their stock value plummeted under her "leadership" and she was widely viewed as a complete hack. She was a consummate self-promoter, but a horrendous executive.

Hell, after she announced her departure the company stock, which lost half its value under her tenure, went up significantly in value.

Here's another take on her tenure from Infoworld:

"6. Carly Fiorina. Call her the anti-Steve Jobs. During her 1999-2005 tenure as CEO of Hewlett-Packard, Carly Fiorina proved that she could reverse decades of geek goodwill and alienate customers like no one else. She oversaw the spin-off of HP's well-respected instruments and medical equipment business, outsourced its beloved calculator division, then issued 7,000 pink slips. Under Fiorina's tenure, HP brought in more profits from printer ink than PCs. But she'll be remembered most for HP's acquisition of Compaq (http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/09/07/010907hnhpreax.html), among other dubious efforts to give the "stodgy" HP a more consumer-friendly face (does anyone remember the licensed iPods?).
HP's stock price sagged under Fiorina, but she still walked away with a $21 million severance bonus. Not bad, considering that HP began in a garage with just $538 (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/garage/timeline.html) in capital."

Actually, I was referring to Meg Whitman and eBay but didn't clarify. And FWIW, eBay has sucked since she left.

Regardless, I'm voting for her because this state has had enough of Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein, although as I said earlier, I doubt it'll make a difference.

Californians are idiots. Look no further than that scumbag, Antonio Villiaragosa. He'll never lose an election because the Hispanic vote, despite the fact he does nothing for them or their community and he's constantly mired in scandal.

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 02:56 PM
Actually, I was referring to Meg Whitman and eBay but didn't clarify.

Regardless, I'm voting for her because this state has had enough of Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein, although as I said earlier, I doubt it'll make a difference.

Californians are idiots. Look no further than that scumbag, Antonio Villiaragosa. He'll never lose an election because the Hispanic vote, despite the fact he does nothing for them or their community and he's constantly mired in scandal.

You are aware that Hamas' critique of Fiorina mirrors your critique of Palin and O'Donnell, and your response concomitantly mirrors the response of all us 'fucking idiots' trying to discuss the matter with you on this thread.

And FTR, before this all sinks into some abyss of misread opinions, I'll have no opportunity to vote for or against Ms. O'Donnell, and am already on the record as rolling my eyes at her moonbattery nigh onto 15 YEARS ago. But that has no bearing on the case she has yet to make as to what her priorities will or won't be if elected. Can't for the life of me figure how snap judgments on someone who's been in your attention span all of a week now musters as enlightened.

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2010, 02:58 PM
I can't do that. I can't vote for someone that can't maintain control over their own life. I can't vote for someone that I don't respect. I can't vote for someone that I think is a babbling moron.

It's either that or don't vote if you live in Delaware. I get what you're saying but it's a process. Mike Castle was basically a professional politician who had sold his soul to stay in power. Delaware spoke and kicked him out. Good for them IMO. Now the choice there is between O'Donnell and Cooms the proclaimed pet of Harry Reid. I want to shake up the establishment on both sides. They work for the people. Most of them have forgotten that.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-18-2010, 03:01 PM
I'm at a loss when it comes to reconciling any of Carly Fiorina's qualifications with your measuring sticks for a worthwhile candidate.

She's staunchly social conservative, as she is adamantly Pro "Choice" and voted for Prop 8. More interestingly she seemed to lack the organizational chops to run her own company, and almost never voted across the entirety of her adult life.

ChiefaRoo
09-18-2010, 03:09 PM
I'm at a loss when it comes to reconciling any of Carly Fiorina's qualifications with your measuring sticks for a worthwhile candidate.

She's staunchly social conservative, as she is adamantly Pro "Choice" and voted for Prop 8. More interestingly she seemed to lack the organizational chops to run her own company, and almost never voted across the entirety of her adult life.

She is better than Barbara Boxer.

RubberSponge
09-18-2010, 03:31 PM
She against masturbation. She's a far right Christian conservative.

She can believe whatever she wants to believe, as long as she's not in a government position.

I don't think you're very familiar with her and her politics.

I don't think the masturbation and lust idea is what people should be making fun of her about. Is it funny? Oh hell yeah it is. But the statement where she further discussed masturbation in a relationship is more important fact about her ideas and her place she thinks should be in a relationship. I don't remember the exact words, but her statement of "if a man masturbates, what exactly is she there for"? Uh, what was that again crazy lady? Care to further elaborate that for us?

What she is essentially saying with that statement, is that women are a subservient sex toy to their man. The only reason she is around in a relationship is so her man can get off.

Sex might be an important part of a relationship, but it's hardly the most important. How about friendship for starters? Her ideas are going in the wrong direction that the vast majority of women (at least the ones I know) about their place in the home or in society are going.

She and her backwards ideas are going to deserve the ass kicking she is about to receive in Delaware.

Brock
09-18-2010, 03:33 PM
What she is essentially saying with that statement, is that women are a subservient sex toy to their man. The only reason she is around in a relationship is so her man can get off.

If it weren't for that, what man would want a woman around?

RubberSponge
09-18-2010, 03:39 PM
If it weren't for that, what man would want a woman around?

I eat more than have sex. I need to eat too. Need someone to fill my tank when it gets empty as well. You know, the important stuff

ROFL

SNR
09-18-2010, 03:41 PM
Why?

Are you telling me that leaders haven't been expelled due to racism? Are you telling me that the Tea Party isn't at the extreme right of the Republican Party and if so, are you claiming that extreme right-thinking people are Hispanic, Asian and Black?I was listening to libruhl talk radio (some Wisconsin station). There was a lady that called up when they were talking about the Tea Party and its effect on the election this November. She chimed in as they were talking about the far right element of it and how it would plunge America into a hell hole equal to Somalia. Yes, they compared a Tea Party-controlled America to Somalia.

Anyway, the lady said something like, "The racism and bigotry is so obvious in the Tea Party. I have no doubt that they want to repeal the 17th amendment so they could take away the voting voice of her and her family (I assume that meant she was black... though I'm not quite seeing how repealing the 17th amendment would do that)."

The hosts didn't agree with that absurd notion, but also didn't exactly tell her how ridiculous that was. They tried to make her call valid by talking about the TP's primitive interpretations of the Constitution, and how they're so strict about interpretation that they would reverse decades of racial progress just by carrying out their ideas on government.

You can disagree with the Tea Party's views, but surely you agree this is an example of lies and fearful assertions, right?

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 03:48 PM
You are aware that Hamas' critique of Fiorina mirrors your critique of Palin and O'Donnell, and your response concomitantly mirrors the response of all us 'fucking idiots' trying to discuss the matter with you on this thread.

Actually, that's not true.

While Fiona wasn't a massive success at HP, she's a smart capable woman, much better suited to serve (at least IMO) than someone like Christine O'Donnell.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 03:48 PM
She is better than Barbara Boxer.

One would hope.

BucEyedPea
09-18-2010, 03:52 PM
I hope you're joking, because Carly Fiorina almost ran HP into the ground. She's one of the worst CEOs in modern history, at least according to Conde Nast. Their stock value plummeted under her "leadership" and she was widely viewed as a complete hack. She was a consummate self-promoter, but a horrendous executive.

Hell, after she announced her departure the company stock, which lost half its value under her tenure, went up significantly in value.

Here's another take on her tenure from Infoworld:

"6. Carly Fiorina. Call her the anti-Steve Jobs. During her 1999-2005 tenure as CEO of Hewlett-Packard, Carly Fiorina proved that she could reverse decades of geek goodwill and alienate customers like no one else. She oversaw the spin-off of HP's well-respected instruments and medical equipment business, outsourced its beloved calculator division, then issued 7,000 pink slips. Under Fiorina's tenure, HP brought in more profits from printer ink than PCs. But she'll be remembered most for HP's acquisition of Compaq (http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/09/07/010907hnhpreax.html), among other dubious efforts to give the "stodgy" HP a more consumer-friendly face (does anyone remember the licensed iPods?).
HP's stock price sagged under Fiorina, but she still walked away with a $21 million severance bonus. Not bad, considering that HP began in a garage with just $538 (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/garage/timeline.html) in capital."

I would say those are qualifications for being an elected rep in our govt today. Remember Jimmy Carter ran his peanut company into the ground too. :D
And since we have govt now shutting down lemonade stands well....you get the idea. I doubt Obama, Reid or Pelosi could even run a lemonade stand.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 03:54 PM
You can disagree with the Tea Party's views, but surely you agree this is an example of lies and fearful assertions, right?

Yes, but that pretty much describes all political parties, does it not?

Look, if the Tea Party was really a group of Constitutionalist that had smart, sharp and savvy candidates, without the religious undertones, I'd be a big fan.

Unfortunately, I don't find that to be the case. And to further that, candidates of any party that use religion in any way, shape or form as a part of their candidacy are an immediate red flag and turn off to me.

People can believe whatever they want to believe, whether they're of Mormon, Christian, Hindi, Buddhist or Islamic faith.

Just keep it out of politics and out of the campaign and you're more likely to get my vote (well, that is, IF I believe in their ideals).

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 03:55 PM
I would say those are qualifications for being an elected rep in our govt today. Remember Jimmy Carter ran his peanut company into the ground too. :D
And since we have govt now shutting down lemonade stands well....you get the idea. I doubt Obama, Reid or Pelosi could even run a lemonade stand.

Come on.

It's 110 degrees or more in Vegas during the summer. I'm sure Harry Reid could sell some lemonade.

BucEyedPea
09-18-2010, 03:59 PM
Come on.

It's 110 degrees or more in Vegas during the summer. I'm sure Harry Reid could sell some lemonade.

I think he could sell lemons....but he couldn't make lemonade that tastes great enough to sell. He'd wreck it. :)

Frankie
09-18-2010, 04:07 PM
I hope you're joking, because Carly Fiorina almost ran HP into the ground. She's one of the worst CEOs in modern history, at least according to Conde Nast. Their stock value plummeted under her "leadership" and she was widely viewed as a complete hack. She was a consummate self-promoter, but a horrendous executive.

Hell, after she announced her departure the company stock, which lost half its value under her tenure, went up significantly in value.

Here's another take on her tenure from Infoworld:

"6. Carly Fiorina. Call her the anti-Steve Jobs. During her 1999-2005 tenure as CEO of Hewlett-Packard, Carly Fiorina proved that she could reverse decades of geek goodwill and alienate customers like no one else. She oversaw the spin-off of HP's well-respected instruments and medical equipment business, outsourced its beloved calculator division, then issued 7,000 pink slips. Under Fiorina's tenure, HP brought in more profits from printer ink than PCs. But she'll be remembered most for HP's acquisition of Compaq (http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/09/07/010907hnhpreax.html), among other dubious efforts to give the "stodgy" HP a more consumer-friendly face (does anyone remember the licensed iPods?).
HP's stock price sagged under Fiorina, but she still walked away with a $21 million severance bonus. Not bad, considering that HP began in a garage with just $538 (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/garage/timeline.html) in capital."

You beat me to THIS.

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 04:20 PM
Yes, but that pretty much describes all political parties, does it not?

Look, if the Tea Party was really a group of Constitutionalist that had smart, sharp and savvy candidates, without the religious undertones, I'd be a big fan.

Unfortunately, I don't find that to be the case. And to further that, candidates of any party that use religion in any way, shape or form as a part of their candidacy are an immediate red flag and turn off to me.

People can believe whatever they want to believe, whether they're of Mormon, Christian, Hindi, Buddhist or Islamic faith.

Just keep it out of politics and out of the campaign and you're more likely to get my vote (well, that is, IF I believe in their ideals).

You see, I've identified my primary concern, smaller government and less spending. For me, a 'moderate' who cites a whiff of religiosity as a deal breaker, is indistinguishable from an ardent libertarian who eschews candidates who fit 90% of their wishes because they aren't in line on FP isolationism, or an ardent liberal who bemoans their candidates because we don't have gay marriage and single payer TODAY!!!, or 1994-2010 'conservative' who wants to purge every single candidate who isn't crusading to end abortions nationwide.

Identify your priorities and stand by them, if strict secularianism is your primary priority, fine. Own it. But don't pretend you're down with the small government crowd if you're willing to drop anyone on your side over another superceding issue.

Ugly Duck
09-18-2010, 04:42 PM
O'Donnell: "They call us wacky. They call us wingnuts."

Gee... wonder why that is? CBS News:

O'Donnell: "American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains"

O'Donnell: "I dabbled into witchcraft -- I never joined a coven. But I did, I did. ... I dabbled into witchcraft. I hung around people who were doing these things. I'm not making this stuff up. I know what they told me they do. . . . "

"One of my first dates with a witch was on a Satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's little blood there and stuff like that. ... We went to a movie and then had a midnight picnic on a Satanic altar."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20016907-503544.html

Baby Lee
09-18-2010, 04:47 PM
Gee... wonder why that is? CBS News:

O'Donnell: "American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains"

O'Donnell: "I dabbled into witchcraft -- I never joined a coven. But I did, I did. ... I dabbled into witchcraft. I hung around people who were doing these things. I'm not making this stuff up. I know what they told me they do. . . . "

"One of my first dates with a witch was on a Satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's little blood there and stuff like that. ... We went to a movie and then had a midnight picnic on a Satanic altar."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20016907-503544.html

Shucks, you've gone and convinced me, single payer is our bright new future, and our workforce's best hope is to obtain stipend supported government service positions.

That is some impressive rhetoric mojo, UD [boy king of 'woo-hoo, people are starting to think THEIR incompetence is as bad as OUR demonstrated incompetance!!!']

petegz28
09-18-2010, 04:53 PM
Is this a joke or a serious question?

The Tea Party is far right of the Republican Party. The Republican Party is far too white for my tastes these days (Did you see the Republican National Convention on television? It's a bunch of white old-fogies).

The Tea Party is more conservative and more religious than the Republican party. I don't care for their politics one damn bit and to deny their racist element is naive.

Disagree. I think 1/2 to slightly over is maybe close to far right. There are a lot of Independents resonating with the Tea Party at it's core. The media just doesn't want this out because they want to continue to paint the Tea Party as a group of racist whackos. Which is why there is little if any coverage of black Tea Partiers speaking out. Which they have. Meanwhile Australia has found itself starting to embrace a Tea Party of their own.

At it's core it is about getting rid of excessive, tone deaf, over-reaching, corrupt politics. That is not far right. That is something the majority of the working class wants, agrees with and supports.

petegz28
09-18-2010, 04:55 PM
Gee... wonder why that is? CBS News:

O'Donnell: "American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains"

O'Donnell: "I dabbled into witchcraft -- I never joined a coven. But I did, I did. ... I dabbled into witchcraft. I hung around people who were doing these things. I'm not making this stuff up. I know what they told me they do. . . . "

"One of my first dates with a witch was on a Satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's little blood there and stuff like that. ... We went to a movie and then had a midnight picnic on a Satanic altar."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20016907-503544.html

So? That's supposed to be worse then going to a church and listening, no, heroising a racist, hateful Minister?

At least she admitted she did it. And I don't think she does it anymore. That being said, religion doesn't play on me. I know people who are Wiccans and\or otherwise practice magicK. I don't look down upon them for it. You might, I don't.

petegz28
09-18-2010, 04:58 PM
Just to further my response, I will be voting for Carly Fiorina and Meg Whitman come November, both of whom have no prior political experience but have had the experience of successfully running multi-national corporations.

I hope that my fellow Californians wake up and vote for them as well, but it could be a tall order. This state is insanely corrupt but it's also enabled by its citizens.

I don't know tha tyou can say Fiorina was successful at HP. That being said though she does have a fresh take on things compared to the run of the mill politicans and she does understand business, contrary to many politicians.

petegz28
09-18-2010, 05:03 PM
Yes.

I'd prefer that our government is made of up highly educated and smart individuals. While I realize this isn't always going to be the case, I am especially turned off by beauty queens and people that can't even manage their own lives.

Well, lets be fair to a point. Everyone, I don't care who it is save a very small minority, very small, have had some issues in their lives, financially or otherwise. The question is did they learn and overcome or did they cast out excuses and blame others?

I think I would rather vote for someone who has experienced similar issues to what most people experience at some point in their lives. No one is perfect, Dane. You know that, I know that.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 05:07 PM
Well, lets be fair to a point. Everyone, I don't care who it is save a very small minority, very small, have had some issues in their lives, financially or otherwise. The question is did they learn and overcome or did they cast out excuses and blame others?

I think I would rather vote for someone who has experienced similar issues to what most people experience at some point in their lives. No one is perfect, Dane. You know that, I know that.

The lady had her house repo'd less than 2 years ago. She a nut.

You can choose to vote for whoever you'd like but I'm not voting for ANYONE that doesn't have their life in proper order.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 05:11 PM
Disagree. I think 1/2 to slightly over is maybe close to far right. There are a lot of Independents resonating with the Tea Party at it's core. The media just doesn't want this out because they want to continue to paint the Tea Party as a group of racist whackos. Which is why there is little if any coverage of black Tea Partiers speaking out. Which they have. Meanwhile Australia has found itself starting to embrace a Tea Party of their own.

At it's core it is about getting rid of excessive, tone deaf, over-reaching, corrupt politics. That is not far right. That is something the majority of the working class wants, agrees with and supports.

I've been a registered Independent for more than 15 years and I can assure you, the Tea Party doesn't resonate with me, whatsoever.

And regardless of what they're preaching, nothing in Washington will ever change unless they limit lobbyists contributions to $100.00.

It seems to me that Scott Brown hasn't exactly lived up to Tea Party expectations after receiving their support (which allegedly put him over the top).

petegz28
09-18-2010, 05:12 PM
The lady had her house repo'd less than 2 years ago. She a nut.

You can choose to vote for whoever you'd like but I'm not voting for ANYONE that doesn't have their life in proper order.

Fair enough. And how many tax evaders does Obama and the Dems have in their ranks? I am not saying you support them either, I am just pointing out in general that when bricks get thrown by people in glass houses they had better be ready to have a brick thrown back.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 05:16 PM
And how many tax evaders does Obama and the Dems have in their ranks?

And I wouldn't vote for someone like that, either.

I am not saying you support them either, I am just pointing out in general that when bricks get thrown by people in glass houses they had better be ready to have a brick thrown back.

You're missing my point.

She's a nut. Her life has been all over the map. She has crazy-assed, Puritan sexual ideals. She has major issues across the board.

As I stated earlier, I would NEVER vote for someone that I don't respect.

petegz28
09-18-2010, 05:45 PM
And I wouldn't vote for someone like that, either.



You're missing my point.

She's a nut. Her life has been all over the map. She has crazy-assed, Puritan sexual ideals. She has major issues across the board.

As I stated earlier, I would NEVER vote for someone that I don't respect.

I never asked you too.

Frankie
09-18-2010, 05:56 PM
Shucks, you've gone and convinced me, single payer is our bright new future, and our workforce's best hope is to obtain stipend supported government service positions.

That is some impressive rhetoric mojo, UD [boy king of 'woo-hoo, people are starting to think THEIR incompetence is as bad as OUR demonstrated incompetance!!!']

What does this post even mean? UD very properly is bringing up a craziness that might end up being a high leader in this country. You should be worried about this kind of personality even getting close to that. Do you think for a minute that the religious nuts running other countries appeared on the scene instantly? You just chose to deflect UD's post by clowning it up. Only because the said nut is from your side politically.

Frankie
09-18-2010, 05:59 PM
The lady had her house repo'd less than 2 years ago. She a nut.

I think she saved it by having her boyfriend buy it right before the repo.

BOYFRIEND?!!!!:eek::eek: That means sex before marriage? WHAAAAA???!:eek:

Ugly Duck
09-18-2010, 06:22 PM
religion doesn't play on me.

OK.. what about the human-animal hybrids - the mice with fully developed human brains? Wee bit wacky, eh?

petegz28
09-18-2010, 06:47 PM
OK.. what about the human-animal hybrids - the mice with fully developed human brains? Wee bit wacky, eh?

No worse than the majority of shit that comes out of the mouths of other politicians, imo.

petegz28
09-18-2010, 06:48 PM
I think she saved it by having her boyfriend buy it right before the repo.

BOYFRIEND?!!!!:eek::eek: That means sex before marriage? WHAAAAA???!:eek:

Bullshit. My Wife, being the good catholic girl she is, would not have sex until we were married.

Not everyone thinks the way Hollywood does.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 06:52 PM
Bullshit. My Wife, being the good catholic girl she is, would not have sex until we were married.

Not everyone thinks the way Hollywood does.

So only people in Hollywood, California engage in pre-marital sex?

LMAO

No wonder you find this dingbat appealing.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 06:53 PM
No worse than the majority of shit that comes out of the mouths of other politicians, imo.

I've just lost what little respect I have for you

patteeu
09-18-2010, 06:53 PM
So only people in Hollywood, California engage in pre-marital sex?

LMAO

Now wonder this dingbat appeals to you.

Dane appears to be unfamiliar with Hollywood's main commercial contribution to American society.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 06:57 PM
Dane appears to be unfamiliar with Hollywood's main commercial contribution to American society.

And I think you're unfamiliar with life outside of Kansas

petegz28
09-18-2010, 07:19 PM
So only people in Hollywood, California engage in pre-marital sex?

LMAO


No wonder you find this dingbat appealing.

JFC, Dane, I was talking about TV and movies. And I am pained that you have lodst what little respect you had for me. How will I ever sleep?

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 07:25 PM
JFC, Dane, I was talking about TV and movies. And I am pained that you have lodst what little respect you had for me. How will I ever sleep?

Oh, so now, only people on TV and in movies engage in pre-marital sex?

Really?

Really?

BucEyedPea
09-18-2010, 07:25 PM
OK.. what about the human-animal hybrids - the mice with fully developed human brains? Wee bit wacky, eh?

Wacky? Yeah. She might have been referring to this though.

http://reason.com/archives/2004/11/24/what-is-too-human



What Is Too Human?
The ethics of human/animal chimeras

.......
But what about just installing human brain cells directly in animals? Stanford University's Irving Weissman has injected human neural stem cells from aborted fetuses into the brains of fetal mice, where they have integrated and grown into human neurons and glia that intermingle with mouse brain cells, making up about 1 percent of the tissue in their brains. However, there is no evidence the chimeric mice began to contemplate the meaning of life. We need to give such chimeric mice no more or less moral consideration than we already give laboratory mice.

Weissman has said that he would like to inject human stem cells into the developing brains of fetal mice, with the goal of producing mouse brains composed chiefly of human brain cells. Such mice might be useful for testing drugs to cure or prevent various human brain diseases. Since the brains would have the architecture of mouse brains, it is unlikely that they would become biotech Stuart Littles and exhibit any characteristics that would cause us moral concerns......

As humanity's biotechnological prowess increases, we will confront again and again the question of what, if any, limits should be placed on research that mixes human and animal genes, cells and tissues. The main ethical concern about such research is not the creation of improved and useful animals, but the risk of producing what would be, in effect, diminished human beings.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 07:28 PM
Wacky? Yeah. She might have been referring to this though.

http://reason.com/archives/2004/11/24/what-is-too-human

You've repeatedly given her too much credit, first with the Constitutionalist thing and now this.

Methinks you haven't heard her speak.

BucEyedPea
09-18-2010, 07:34 PM
You've repeatedly given her too much credit, first with the Constitutionalist thing and now this.

Methinks you haven't heard her speak.

No I've given her mixed credit: I conceded she was not a good choice for the TP voters. I've admitted she's eccentric. I said her finances were irregular and a problem for me. I just think some of the claims about how much damage she can do in office are exaggerated. I think her damage would be less than Obama but she has less chance than a President can do. I could care less what she thinks about masturbation....I don't see her recommending legislation for it. I think compared to what's in DC right now regarding fiscal issues is not really better than her. She wants to repeal the health care bill.....not all Rs want to do that. That I like.

I don't think she will win either. But I'm still glad Castles out.

Frankie
09-18-2010, 08:12 PM
No I've given her mixed credit: I conceded she was not a good choice for the TP voters. I've admitted she's eccentric.

BEP, Calling O'Donnel eccentric is like calling Octa-mom a little pregnant. O'Donnel is a crazy wacko. Let's call her what she is.

patteeu
09-18-2010, 08:34 PM
Oh, so now, only people on TV and in movies engage in pre-marital sex?

Really?

Really?

Good Lord, Dane, it's not that hard to understand. He's talking about the way Hollywood portrays American society. "Quaint" notions like saving yourself for marriage are virtually non-existent or treated as odd in most movies, tv, and music.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2010, 08:39 PM
Good Lord, Dane, it's not that hard to understand. He's talking about the way Hollywood portrays American society. "Quaint" notions like saving yourself for marriage are virtually non-existent or treated as odd in most movies, tv, and music.

And you're claiming that those depictions are false?

Ugly Duck
09-18-2010, 08:42 PM
Wacky? Yeah. She might have been referring to this though.

http://reason.com/archives/2004/11/24/what-is-too-human

Thats the problem... she translates that into scientists having developed "mice with fully functional human brains." Thats loopy. She believes everything in the Bible should be taken literally... that Creationism should be taught instead of science. Thats wacky. She thinks you commit adultery against yourself when when you are alone with your private parts. Thats freak. She used to dabble in Satanism. Thats coo-coo for freakin' CoCo-puffs. She opposes women in the military.... see a pattern developing here?

petegz28
09-18-2010, 08:53 PM
Good Lord, Dane, it's not that hard to understand. He's talking about the way Hollywood portrays American society. "Quaint" notions like saving yourself for marriage are virtually non-existent or treated as odd in most movies, tv, and music.

Hell no they aren't. Ever watch the ABC Family Channel? It's nothing but shows about teenagers in highschool getting pregnant and cheating on each other. And that is supposed to be a FAMILY channel.

go bowe
09-18-2010, 09:09 PM
No worse than the majority of shit that comes out of the mouths of other politicians, imo.please, name one thing any politician has said that is wackier than believing that there are mice with fully functioning human brains?

fwiw you said the majority of shit that comes out of the mouths of other politicians, but i'll settle for just one example of something you think is wackier than mice with human brains...

petegz28
09-18-2010, 09:10 PM
please, name one thing any politician has said that is wackier than believing that there are mice with fully functioning human brains?

fwiw you said the majority of shit that comes out of the mouths of other politicians, but i'll settle for just one example of something you think is wackier than mice with human brains...

Um, an island is going to tip over from too many people?

go bowe
09-18-2010, 09:13 PM
BEP, Calling O'Donnel eccentric is like calling Octa-mom a little pregnant. O'Donnel is a crazy wacko. Let's call her what she is.eccentric?

pea brain is eccentric, on her best days...

o'donnel is a whacko...

oh, that's what you said...

go bowe
09-18-2010, 09:15 PM
Um, an island is going to tip over from too many people?ok, 2 things...

petegz28
09-18-2010, 09:23 PM
ok, 2 things...

We have to pass the bill so we know what's in it?

Dallas Chief
09-18-2010, 09:34 PM
Gee... wonder why that is? CBS News:

O'Donnell: "American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains"

O'Donnell: "I dabbled into witchcraft -- I never joined a coven. But I did, I did. ... I dabbled into witchcraft. I hung around people who were doing these things. I'm not making this stuff up. I know what they told me they do. . . . "

"One of my first dates with a witch was on a Satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's little blood there and stuff like that. ... We went to a movie and then had a midnight picnic on a Satanic altar."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20016907-503544.html

Oh the irony of you and your outrage...:shake:

Frankie
09-18-2010, 11:14 PM
Thats the problem... she translates that into scientists having developed "mice with fully functional human brains." Thats loopy. She believes everything in the Bible should be taken literally... that Creationism should be taught instead of science. Thats wacky. She thinks you commit adultery against yourself when when you are alone with your private parts. Thats freak. She used to dabble in Satanism. Thats coo-coo for freakin' CoCo-puffs. She opposes women in the military.... see a pattern developing here?

Bu,...bu...but she hasn't said that the Internet is a series of interconnecting tubes yet. ;)

Frankie
09-18-2010, 11:19 PM
please, name one thing any politician has said that is wackier than believing that there are mice with fully functioning human brains?

fwiw you said the majority of shit that comes out of the mouths of other politicians, but i'll settle for just one example of something you think is wackier than mice with human brains...

I just posted the Internet definition by Republican senator (at the time) Ted Stevens. In the interest of fairness there was the Democratic congressman who said Guam was gonna tip over because most of it's residents are concentrated on one side of the Island.

But that's my point. There are enough wackos in the congress already. We need to find a way to get rid of them. Instead, it seems we are paving the way for more into the congress.:shake:

Frankie
09-18-2010, 11:20 PM
Um, an island is going to tip over from too many people?

Dammit pete. I hate it when you and I are on the same wavelength.

go bowe
09-18-2010, 11:38 PM
We have to pass the bill so we know what's in it?that's another good one, but imo not nearly as wacky as mice with human brains...

wanna try again? :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

JohnnyV13
09-19-2010, 01:21 AM
While mice with human brains is patently ridiculous...i think ODonnel shows that human beings with mouse brains are entirely possible.

BucEyedPea
09-19-2010, 07:38 AM
BEP, Calling O'Donnel eccentric is like calling Octa-mom a little pregnant. O'Donnel is a crazy wacko. Let's call her what she is.

I am just trying to be more analytical about it as opposed to emotionally reactive like the lefties and liberals here on this. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but was just trying parse what she could realistically accomplish, what she'd try to accomplish and how much actually harms. I just don't see much except for the fiscal conservativism that's lacking in her life.

I see her political stands standardly conservative which is considered whacko to anyone on the left for starters anyhow.

I don't see her pov on masturbation, at this point anyway, as translating into legislation by her either. That seemed like a private mission. So there's no threat or harm there either. Her being in Wicca—no threat or harm to anyone there either. So people change, maybe she was young and looking at the time. But it's intolerant of another religion. That's personal and private thing.

On the other hand:
•not wanting govt money to pay for abortions- no problem— standardly conservative and also libertarian
• not funding embryonic stem cell research—for me any funds for R & D are not necessary—this is both standardly conservative and libertarian
• sugary drinks in schools — local issue
• She'd probably stop funding for questionable bio tech research and would attempt to pass laws regarding bio-ethics issues—standardly conservative stand
• repeal of Obamacare—standardly conservative stand

I do worry about her on fiscal responsibility though. But like I said look at the rest of them up there on both sides of the aisle over the past ten years. This would just indicate no change in this area and THAT aspect of her does concern me like I said earlier. This is where we do need change.

Intelligence isn't enough for me for someone in Congress or as president. It's overrated. Wisdom and restraint is preferred. They are not the same thing and are rare today. We've become a spoiled people. Only a small handful of them have either trait up there in DC today. It's all about excess. Of course the right ideas too, but that stems from Wisdom. I feel the wisdom and restraint lie in following the Constitution in a stricter manner because it's based on wisdom and restraint. It takes integrity to adhere to it.

All the above are standardly conservative stands which drive liberals and lefties nuts because they think those stands are whacko from the get-go.

BucEyedPea
09-19-2010, 07:40 AM
While mice with human brains is patently ridiculous...i think ODonnel shows that human beings with mouse brains are entirely possible.

Like Congress and the current Regime. :D

Frankie
09-19-2010, 09:46 AM
While mice with human brains is patently ridiculous...i think ODonnel shows that human beings with mouse brains are entirely possible.

:clap:

BucEyedPea
09-19-2010, 10:06 AM
Meanwhile our economy continues to implode. That's a result of mice brains.

mlyonsd
09-19-2010, 10:20 AM
Meanwhile our economy continues to implode. That's a result of mice brains.More like rats.

petegz28
09-19-2010, 10:31 AM
that's another good one, but imo not nearly as wacky as mice with human brains...

wanna try again? :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

I was too traumatised to call the police after my car went into a lake with a woman in it???

After Patches Kennedy was taken home instead of being charged with a DUI and did a pretend stint at a Club Med rehab: he says "Treat me like a black person" ????

petegz28
09-19-2010, 10:39 AM
that's another good one, but imo not nearly as wacky as mice with human brains...

wanna try again? :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

California Senator Barbara Boxer: "Those who survived the San Francisco earthquake said, ‘Thank God, I'm still alive.' But, of course, those who died, their lives will never be the same again."

Al Gore on zoology: "A zebra does not change its spots."

Joe Biden to Missouri State Senator Chuck Graham, who is wheelchair bound: "stand up ... Chuck, stand up, Chuck, let 'em see you!"


Need I go on?

BucEyedPea
09-19-2010, 11:10 AM
There's "57 states" - Obama

BucEyedPea
09-19-2010, 11:12 AM
"Let's see -- the Dems told us we couldn't overhaul Social Security and wipe away tens of trillions in unfunded liabilities because it could cost upwards of a trillion dollars and put the management of people's retirements in their own hands. So instead we pass a healthcare "plan" that costs even more, doesn't reduce costs, imposes trillions in new taxes (their word, not mine), and changes the system in ways that even the supporters of the bill don't understand."—RINGLEADER

Who's call who stupid or whacko after what's happening in DC?

patteeu
09-19-2010, 11:22 AM
And you're claiming that those depictions are false?

Yes, I think they're distortions of reality.

JohnnyV13
09-19-2010, 11:52 AM
On the other hand:

• She'd probably stop funding for questionable bio tech research and would attempt to pass laws regarding bio-ethics issues—standardly conservative stand

.

The fact that she makes the mouse/human brain statement, not only shows abject scientific stupidity, but also indicates extreme contempt for scientists to believe such crap.

Such a person should have absolutely no place in considering legislation that regulates science.

The Mad Crapper
09-19-2010, 03:17 PM
More like rats.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-por-pelosi-obama-reid-economy-very-poor/

DaneMcCloud
09-19-2010, 03:25 PM
Yes, I think they're distortions of reality.

LMAO

If you sincerely believe this, it's a product of where you live.

The only people I knew growing up in the KC area that didn't have pre-marital sex were the guys that couldn't get a chick to have sex with them.

I am absolutely shocked at your naivete.

Frankie
09-19-2010, 03:51 PM
You know who'se really releaved by this O'Donnel's win?..... Sharon Angle.

go bowe
09-19-2010, 04:52 PM
I was too traumatised to call the police after my car went into a lake with a woman in it???

After Patches Kennedy was taken home instead of being charged with a DUI and did a pretend stint at a Club Med rehab: he says "Treat me like a black person" ????stupid, but not really wacky like mice with human brains...

go bowe
09-19-2010, 04:53 PM
We have to pass the bill so we know what's in it?pelosi-speak, not wacky, just stupid...

go bowe
09-19-2010, 04:56 PM
California Senator Barbara Boxer: "Those who survived the San Francisco earthquake said, ‘Thank God, I'm still alive.' But, of course, those who died, their lives will never be the same again."

Al Gore on zoology: "A zebra does not change its spots."

Joe Biden to Missouri State Senator Chuck Graham, who is wheelchair bound: "stand up ... Chuck, stand up, Chuck, let 'em see you!"


Need I go on?boxer - bad-girlish, but not wacky...

gore - confused, but not wacky...

biden - perpetual foot in mouth, but not wacky...

so far, only one, and that was only borderline wacky... :p :p :p

go bowe
09-19-2010, 05:00 PM
You know who'se really releaved by this O'Donnel's win?..... Sharon Angle.why?

because now there's another republican candidate that's even wackier than her?

it might take some of the heat off angle, but she's still wacky enough in her own right...

Mi_chief_fan
09-19-2010, 05:04 PM
Interesting..........sorry if repost.

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/09/19/christine-odonnell-abruptly-cancels-fox-%20appearance-in-wake-of-embezzlement-complaint/

BucEyedPea
09-19-2010, 05:23 PM
The fact that she makes the mouse/human brain statement, not only shows abject scientific stupidity, but also indicates extreme contempt for scientists to believe such crap.

Such a person should have absolutely no place in considering legislation that regulates science.

In your elitist opinion.

Frankie
09-19-2010, 06:16 PM
why?

because now there's another republican candidate that's even wackier than her?

it might take some of the heat off angle, but she's still wacky enough in her own right...

Bingo. y'smart Mr. go bowe.

Frankie
09-19-2010, 06:18 PM
In your elitist opinion.

Come on BEP, there's nothing elitist about wanting more cerebral people in the positions of leadership.

banyon
09-19-2010, 06:58 PM
Come on BEP, there's nothing elitist about wanting more cerebral people in the positions of leadership.

BEP would fit in well with the Blue Springs book-banning people. Anything that's too hard to understand must not be worth knowing. Don't listen to anyone who's read more than you.

Per Ignorantia ad Astra!

patteeu
09-19-2010, 11:03 PM
LMAO

If you sincerely believe this, it's a product of where you live.

The only people I knew growing up in the KC area that didn't have pre-marital sex were the guys that couldn't get a chick to have sex with them.

I am absolutely shocked at your naivete.

I'm not shocked at your failure to grasp the nuance of this discussion. Nothing that I've said should have given you the impression that I think premarital sex is rare.

And how does this argument work anyway? On the one hand, my supposed lack of awareness of sexual behavior is a product of where I live (i.e. Kansas City). But on the other hand, you're telling me that the people in Kansas City (i.e. where I live) demonstrate how wrong you think I am about sexual behavior.

BIG_DADDY
09-19-2010, 11:10 PM
BEP would fit in well with the Blue Springs book-banning people. Anything that's too hard to understand must not be worth knowing. Don't listen to anyone who's read more than you.

Per Ignorantia ad Astra!

Baghdad Frankie found a friend and it's no other than yours truly BIG GOVERNMENT Banyon. SHOCKING!!!!

JohnnyV13
09-20-2010, 12:04 AM
In your elitist opinion.

If you consider having basic reading comprehension of scientific reports "elitism".

And, no, I don't mean reading an origional research paper. I mean reading a freaking news report aimed at the general public.

She obviously couldn't understand reports about human/mice gene splicing. She was too lazy to check her sources before spouting an ignorant opinion on The OReily factor. And, to believe what she said, she'd pretty much have to think scientists are all a bunch of Dr. Frankenstiens.

So yeah, in my elitist opinion drooling morons don't belong in the Senate.

BucEyedPea
09-20-2010, 04:11 AM
If you consider having basic reading comprehension of scientific reports "elitism".

And, no, I don't mean reading an origional research paper. I mean reading a freaking news report aimed at the general public.

She obviously couldn't understand reports about human/mice gene splicing. She was too lazy to check her sources before spouting an ignorant opinion on The OReily factor. And, to believe what she said, she'd pretty much have to think scientists are all a bunch of Dr. Frankenstiens.

So yeah, in my elitist opinion drooling morons don't belong in the Senate.
No I consider having to have an intellectual in office as opposed to common citizens to be elitist. To you she just a farm hand.

Meanwhile, the rest of up in DC can't even read the bills they pass. The current crop doesn't even understand basic economics. She'll fit right in.

BucEyedPea
09-20-2010, 04:15 AM
Come on BEP, there's nothing elitist about wanting more cerebral people in the positions of leadership.

Yes it is. It's been the intelligentsia that has wrecked this country. A commoner could do a better job. They can't even read the bills they pass. Remember Pelosi was the one who said we had to pass the HC bill to find out what's in it. That's whacky. Thinking we have to be spending money to get out of a depression when spending got us into it is whacky. Giving more power to those who created the financial crisis. Those are the ideas from allegedly cerebral people in power. NO COMMON SENSE.

Frankie
09-20-2010, 10:06 AM
To you she just a farm hand.

That is not true BEP. To us she's just another Michelle Bachman. You know, the kookoo who brands anything left of her radical Right stance "Un-American" and wants to have investigations on unAmerican activities.

You are well-read, BEP, especially about political history. How did the last time some Ridical Right legislator got some power work out?

jiveturkey
09-20-2010, 10:13 AM
The real question IMO is will she stick to a financially conservative platform or is she more interested in the socially conservative issues.

I really thought that the tea party was primarily financial conservatives (libertarian).

If they start pushing the social agenda then what was the point of breaking off from republicans?

patteeu
09-20-2010, 10:33 AM
No I consider having to have an intellectual in office as opposed to common citizens to be elitist.

Reasonable people can disagree on whether Christine O'Donnell is worthy of their vote, but in general, I agree with BEP on this.

And as far as O'Donnell's comment about "mice with fully functioning human brains" is concerned, I think people are taking her comments too literally. I seriously doubt that she ever believed that scientists had created mice that could think like humans. It was far more likely that it was just a careless use of words.

AustinChief
09-20-2010, 10:43 AM
Reasonable people can disagree on whether Christine O'Donnell is worthy of their vote, but in general, I agree with BEP on this.

And as far as O'Donnell's comment about "mice with fully functioning human brains" is concerned, I think people are taking her comments too literally. I seriously doubt that she ever believed that scientists had created mice that could think like humans. It was far more likely that it was just a careless use of words.

Dude, the woman is a borderline clinical moron.. ignorance can be cured with knowledge... there is no cure for being just plain stupid.

There is nothing wrong with wanting smart people in government... That was kind of the whole POINT of the Founding Fathers setting up our representative style of government in the first place.

I can't see ANY good reason to elect someone so woefully mentally challenged.

ClevelandBronco
09-20-2010, 10:50 AM
The real question IMO is will she stick to a financially conservative platform or is she more interested in the socially conservative issues.

I really thought that the tea party was primarily financial conservatives (libertarian).

If they start pushing the social agenda then what was the point of breaking off from republicans?

Politics is game of coalition management. The fiscal right cannot hope to gain and hold a viable degree of power without the social right.

mlyonsd
09-20-2010, 10:57 AM
I can't see ANY good reason to elect someone so woefully mentally challenged.

Because the alternative is to let someone get elected to that seat who will side with the other clinical morons already spending us into oblivion.

Frankie
09-20-2010, 11:02 AM
And as far as O'Donnell's comment about "mice with fully functioning human brains" is concerned, I think people are taking her comments too literally.

COME ON PAT!!!

2004: You guys were swallowing and repeating the out of context bullshit that Rove put out about John Kerry saying "I voted for such and such before I voted against it." You guys never wanted to discuss the rest of his statement. There were many similar misquotes that your side gleefully perpetuated.

2000: Misquoting Al Gore about "inventing the Internet" when you know full well he never said that.

Those are the two examples that immediately come to mind. There, as you know, were countless similar misquotes that the more simple-minded on your side fully believed and the brighter ones fully participated in, honsty be damned. Now you are trying to make us dismiss totally in context utterings of this crazy bitch (sorry I meant witch) and not take them literally. I know you are a Righty ideologue but you are better than this.

Frankie
09-20-2010, 11:05 AM
Dude, the woman is a borderline clinical moron.. ignorance can be cured with knowledge... there is no cure for being just plain stupid.

There is nothing wrong with wanting smart people in government... That was kind of the whole POINT of the Founding Fathers setting up our representative style of government in the first place.

I can't see ANY good reason to elect someone so woefully mentally challenged.

Great post. The line I highlighted is a future classic. Thanks.

JohnnyV13
09-20-2010, 11:54 AM
Reasonable people can disagree on whether Christine O'Donnell is worthy of their vote, but in general, I agree with BEP on this.

And as far as O'Donnell's comment about "mice with fully functioning human brains" is concerned, I think people are taking her comments too literally. I seriously doubt that she ever believed that scientists had created mice that could think like humans. It was far more likely that it was just a careless use of words.

Pat, I must admit this woman, and this particular comment, pushes some of my hot buttons.

This bias goes back to graduate school.

I've seen her type many times before as a general bio TA (and later, a TA for an evolutionary bio course). Many students come to college wanting to be health care professionals. Many of them are either insufficiently prepared OR simply not up to the academic challenge (either due to limited ability or limited diligence). They often come to this realization in intro bio or intro chem ect., and the process is pretty painful.

There is a certain group of these people, who latch on to religious fundamentalism to excuse their shortcomings. The basic psychology is "its not that I can't do the work, its because these scientific people refuse to accept religious TRUTH".

This plays out in a very definite pattern, which was easy to see b/c the intro bio text we used started with the basic components of the cell, then got into darwinian theory much later in the course. Many times, struggling students would blow up during the darwinian portion, and start answering evolution questions with assertions about how God made it all or biblical creation citations, full well knowing those are failing answers.

Btw, it was almost ALWAYS students with bad grades who would suddenly become hugely devout and give these answers. Basically, it seemed like they'd rather think of themselves as spiritually superior rather than academically inadequate.

Some of these people end up wanting to lecture you, purportedly because they want to "save your soul". One semester when I was the Evolutionary BIo TA, a local fundamentalist church targeted me for salvation. I had a steady stream of missionaries knocking on my apartment door (at all kinds of hours) to help me see the TRUTH.

As you can imagine, when you're 23 years old, the last thing you want is to get woken up on Sunday morning, after you've been out partying the night before, by some brain-dead Jesus freak who wants to inform you about the evils of evolution.

ANd, eventually, many of these types attribute evil intentions to every scientist in the universe. THey imagine all kinds of warped ethical violations on part of scientists (like Ms. ODonnell). So yeah, the last thing I want is one of these types obtaining regulatory authority over scientists.

patteeu
09-20-2010, 11:59 AM
Dude, the woman is a borderline clinical moron.. ignorance can be cured with knowledge... there is no cure for being just plain stupid.

There is nothing wrong with wanting smart people in government... That was kind of the whole POINT of the Founding Fathers setting up our representative style of government in the first place.

I can't see ANY good reason to elect someone so woefully mentally challenged.

I don't think you're right about O'Donnell.

There's nothing wrong with smart, but wisdom and honesty are more important. I'd put policy positions ahead of smart too.

patteeu
09-20-2010, 12:05 PM
COME ON PAT!!!

2004: You guys were swallowing and repeating the out of context bullshit that Rove put out about John Kerry saying "I voted for such and such before I voted against it." You guys never wanted to discuss the rest of his statement. There were many similar misquotes that your side gleefully perpetuated.

2000: Misquoting Al Gore about "inventing the Internet" when you know full well he never said that.

Those are the two examples that immediately come to mind. There, as you know, were countless similar misquotes that the more simple-minded on your side fully believed and the brighter ones fully participated in, honsty be damned. Now you are trying to make us dismiss totally in context utterings of this crazy bitch (sorry I meant witch) and not take them literally. I know you are a Righty ideologue but you are better than this.

1. I'm not responsible for "my side". I'm only responsible for the things I say.

2. I'll take this entire post as an admission that you understand that O'Donnell didn't mean what she said literally.

Frankie
09-20-2010, 12:18 PM
1. I'm not responsible for "my side". I'm only responsible for the things I say.

2. I'll take this entire post as an admission that you understand that O'Donnell didn't mean what she said literally.

1. Did you not participate on this very forum in the Kerry mocking during 2004 elections?

2. I give up pat. Your post makes no sense at all. :shake:

Cave Johnson
09-20-2010, 12:24 PM
Pat, I must admit this woman and this particular comment pushes some of my hot buttons.

This bias goes back to graduate school.

I've seen her type many times before as a general bio TA (and later, a TA for an evolutionary bio course). Many students come to college wanting to be health care professionals. Many of them are either insufficiently prepared OR simply not up to the academic challenge (either due to limited ability or limited diligence). They often come to this realization in intro bio or intro chem ect., and the process is pretty painful.

There is a certain group of these people, who latch on to religious fundamentalism to excuse their shortcomings. The basic psychology is "its not that I can't do the work, its because these scientific people refuse to accept religious TRUTH".

This plays out in a very definite pattern, which was easy to see b/c the intro bio text we used started with the basic components of the cell, then got into darwinian theory much later in the course. Many times, struggling students would blow up during the darwinian portion, and start answering evolution questions with assertions about how God made it all or biblical creation citations, full well knowing those are failing answers.

Btw, it was almost ALWAYS students with bad grades who would suddenly become hugely devout and give these answers. Basically, it seemed like they'd rather think of themselves as spiritually superior rather than adademically inadequate.

Some of these people end up wanting to lecture you, purportedly because they want to "save your soul". One semester when I was the Evolutionary BIo TA, a local fundamentalist church targeted me for salvation. I had a steady stream of missionaries knocking on my apartment door (at all kinds of hours) to help me see the TRUTH.

As you can imaagine, when you're 23 years old, the last thing you want is to get woken up on Sunday morning, after you've been out partying the night before, by some brain-dead Jesus freak who wants to inform you about the evils of evolution.

ANd, eventually, many of these types attribute evil intentions to every scientist in the universe. THey imagine all kinds of warped ethical violations on part of scientists (like Ms. ODonnell). So yeah, the last thing I want is one of these types obtaining regulatory authority over scientists.

Excellent post.

Personally, I'm fearful of the impact the religious right's anti-science bias will have on R&D and global competitiveness.

jiveturkey
09-20-2010, 12:29 PM
Excellent post.

Personally, I'm fearful of the impact the religious right's anti-science bias will have on R&D and global competitiveness.
It's almost like they hate the free market.

AustinChief
09-20-2010, 12:29 PM
I don't think you're right about O'Donnell.

There's nothing wrong with smart, but wisdom and honesty are more important. I'd put policy positions ahead of smart too.

Maybe wisdom and honesty are more important... but abject stupidity is intolerable.

She is just plain stupid.

I am all about changing our current government... I just don't think we need to elect imbeciles to replace morons...

ROYC75
09-20-2010, 12:47 PM
Yes it is. It's been the intelligentsia that has wrecked this country. A commoner could do a better job. They can't even read the bills they pass. Remember Pelosi was the one who said we had to pass the HC bill to find out what's in it. That's whacky. Thinking we have to be spending money to get out of a depression when spending got us into it is whacky. Giving more power to those who created the financial crisis. Those are the ideas from allegedly cerebral people in power. NO COMMON SENSE.

Since when did a Liberal or a moderate Democrat have common sense ? Other peoples common cents, I can agree with, But never common sense.

patteeu
09-20-2010, 12:55 PM
1. Did you not participate on this very forum in the Kerry mocking during 2004 elections?

I believe that I was one who acknowledged that Kerry's actions were common in the Senate even if his statement sounded ridiculous.

2. I give up pat. Your post makes no sense at all. :shake:

You wouldn't have brought up two examples of people whose statements had been unfairly taken literally if you didn't accept my premise that O'Donnell is being victimized by the same unfair treatment here. I accept your surrender.

go bowe
09-20-2010, 01:11 PM
I believe that I was one who acknowledged that Kerry's actions were common in the Senate even if his statement sounded ridiculous.ridiculous?

i was against it before i was for it, or whatever the stupid statement was is ridiculous?

what then is a statement that mice have functioning human brains?

beyond ridiculous?

patteeu
09-20-2010, 01:35 PM
ridiculous?

i was against it before i was for it, or whatever the stupid statement was is ridiculous?

what then is a statement that mice have functioning human brains?

beyond ridiculous?

It also sounds ridiculous. But that's the point. They sound ridiculous if you take them literally, but if you give the speaker a little benefit of the doubt you aren't painted into the corner of being forced to conclude that they too stupid to have ever made it to the Senate or onto the O'Reilly Factor and Politically Incorrect.

Frankie
09-20-2010, 01:42 PM
I believe that I was one who acknowledged that Kerry's actions were common in the Senate even if his statement sounded ridiculous.



You wouldn't have brought up two examples of people whose statements had been unfairly taken literally if you didn't accept my premise that O'Donnell is being victimized by the same unfair treatment here. I accept your surrender.

Pat. It's not surrender. It's giving up on arguing with someone who just stays on his own tangent without trying to read or understand the other person's point.

go bowe
09-20-2010, 01:47 PM
It also sounds ridiculous. But that's the point. They sound ridiculous if you take them literally, but if you give the speaker a little benefit of the doubt you aren't painted into the corner of being forced to conclude that they too stupid to have ever made it to the Senate or onto the O'Reilly Factor and Politically Incorrect.there's the rub, i do take both statements literally...

kerry WAS against it before he was for it, or whatever it was...

and o'd said there are mice with human brains...

that's what they said...

and mice is way more ridiculous than before and against...

i also don't see it as being painted into a corner...

kerry may be stupid, but he is smart enough to be in the senate...

o'd appears to be both stupid and out of touch with reality...

and stupid makes for great shows on o'r and bm...

i would say she got on those shows because of her ridiculous positions, not despite them...

Taco John
09-20-2010, 01:48 PM
"I never had to worry about where to dock my yacht to reduce my taxes."

I love it. That's an awesome line.

go bowe
09-20-2010, 01:49 PM
Pat. It's not surrender. It's giving up on arguing with someone who just stays on his own tangent without trying to read or understand the other person's point.oh c'mon...

you're not giving up...

reload!!!

ClevelandBronco
09-20-2010, 01:55 PM
Pat. It's not surrender. It's giving up on arguing with someone who just stays on his own tangent without trying to read or understand the other person's point.

Do you think you tried to understand Ms. O'Donnell's point, or do you think you were probably just hellbent on staying on your own tangent?

Taco John
09-20-2010, 01:55 PM
That is not true BEP. To us she's just another Michelle Bachman. You know, the kookoo who brands anything left of her radical Right stance "Un-American" and wants to have investigations on unAmerican activities.

You are well-read, BEP, especially about political history. How did the last time some Ridical Right legislator got some power work out?

Let's not get crazy here. This woman has a long way to go to earn the respect that Michelle Bachman has earned.

Cave Johnson
09-20-2010, 02:11 PM
A pretty exhaustive/scary list.

http://thinkprogress.org/christine-odonnell-record/

patteeu
09-20-2010, 02:31 PM
A pretty exhaustive/scary list.

http://thinkprogress.org/christine-odonnell-record/

I don't see it as very scary. Controversial, sure. Stuff I disagree with in many cases, yes. Scary, not really.

She's not a very good candidate if "slick and cautious" is the measuring stick and I can see why she'd have a hard time getting the votes of the superficial center. OTOH, compared to most free spending, class warfare, weak foreign policy liberals, she's still attractive enough to get my vote based on the little I now know of her.

go bowe
09-20-2010, 02:34 PM
A pretty exhaustive/scary list.

http://thinkprogress.org/christine-odonnell-record/ omg... :eek: :eek: :eek:

Cave Johnson
09-20-2010, 02:36 PM
I don't see it as very scary. Controversial, sure. Stuff I disagree with in many cases, yes. Scary, not really.

Of course you don't. There's no conservative candidate too unqualified/ignorant for you.

mlyonsd
09-20-2010, 02:41 PM
Of course you don't. There's no conservative candidate too unqualified/ignorant for you.

What's so hard to understand? If her democratic opponent comes out saying we haven't spent enough money on the stimulus and Obama Care is a brilliant idea I'd vote for the Wiccan in a heart beat.

ROYC75
09-20-2010, 02:45 PM
A pretty exhaustive/scary list.

http://thinkprogress.org/christine-odonnell-record/

Considering that you are Full Blown Liberal, I can clearly see what scares you.

patteeu
09-20-2010, 02:46 PM
Of course you don't. There's no conservative candidate too unqualified/ignorant for you.

Our elections usually end up being a choice between two people. In the current environment, it's hard for the conservative to convince me that he or she is a worse choice than the liberal. If we had a large conservative majority in control of government now, I might be a bit more picky, but as it is, a boost to the liberal majority is too steep a price to pay.

ROYC75
09-20-2010, 02:51 PM
What's so hard to understand? If her democratic opponent comes out saying we haven't spent enough money on the stimulus and Obama Care is a brilliant idea I'd vote for the Wiccan in a heart beat.

Plus when he was young and stupid, he said he was basically a Marxist.

And yet when O'Donnell was young and stupid she said stupid things, but yet it's worst.

To Conservatives, a lot of her comments were core values, yet Liberals want to live as they want, free, even if it means sinful. Oh which is a lifestyle the devil wants you to live, but she gets hammered because of dabbling into Satanic views as a young and stupid woman.


Seems like Liberals want it both ways. No Pun intended.....

Cave Johnson
09-20-2010, 02:56 PM
Considering that you are Full Blown Liberal, I can clearly see what scares you.

What scares me is her demonstrated aversion to "facts" and "reality".

For example, condoms do not have a 20% failure rate, and abstinence-only eduction is categorically not successful.

A U.S. Senator should live in the real world, not some sort of ultra-conservative Catholic fantasyland.

BTW, she would have been 30-ish when she gave those quotes. Hardly young and stupid, unless we're operating under the W alcoholism/DUI standard.

Taco John
09-20-2010, 02:57 PM
A pretty exhaustive/scary list.

http://thinkprogress.org/christine-odonnell-record/



I'd be interested in seeing the list that Think Progress compiled for Obama prior to the election. Do you have a link for that?

Cave Johnson
09-20-2010, 02:59 PM
I'd be interested in seeing the list that Think Progress compiled for Obama prior to the election. Do you have a link for that?

Do your own work, TJ.

Taco John
09-20-2010, 03:05 PM
Do your own work, TJ.


I am. That's why I asked you for it. I'd wager a billion dollars that you didn't bother to look at the list (if it was even bothered to be compiled) when Obama was the candidate. But when they compile their little bias-laden list for an opposing candidate, you fall all over yourself about how scary her record is.

I'd be curious to learn what was in Obama's record prior to the election that you didn't find scary. Not that I honestly believe you voted based on anything but your feelings.

Cave Johnson
09-20-2010, 03:12 PM
I am. That's why I asked you for it. I'd wager a billion dollars that you didn't bother to look at the list (if it was even bothered to be compiled) when Obama was the candidate. But when they compile their little bias-laden list for an opposing candidate, you fall all over yourself about how scary her record is.

I don't need to see those quotes in context.

From her bio, it's clear she's not a serious person. They're entirely consistent with her background.

ROYC75
09-20-2010, 03:18 PM
I don't need to see those quotes in context.

From her bio, it's clear she's not a serious person. They're entirely consistent with her background.

She is just one possible Senator. He is the POTUS now, who was a Senator with issues , big difference to get that one right.

You lose this argument.

Cave Johnson
09-20-2010, 03:19 PM
She is just one possible Senator. He is the POTUS now, who was a Senator with issues , big difference to get that one right.

You lose this argument.

I don't care if the office is POTUS or dogcatcher.

Unqualified is unqualified.

go bowe
09-20-2010, 03:24 PM
I don't need to see those quotes in context.oh, but it's so much fun...

go to youtube and check out full-length segments of various appearances of her on tv...

priceless...

go bowe
09-20-2010, 03:27 PM
I don't care if the office is POTUS or dogcatcher.

Unqualified is unqualified.hmmm...

what was that nice lady's name gw nominated for the supremes?

Cave Johnson
09-20-2010, 03:31 PM
hmmm...

what was that nice lady's name gw nominated for the supremes?

And I'm sure that had nothing to do with her lack of Christian conservative bona fides...

Baby Lee
09-20-2010, 03:34 PM
COME ON PAT!!!

Care to point out the people who said Gore is flatly unfit for office because he said he invented the internet, or Kerry is flatly unfit for office because he was for the war before he was against it, like the case you're trying to make regarding O'Donnell and her 'mice' comment?

Baby Lee
09-20-2010, 03:38 PM
Excellent post.

Personally, I'm fearful of the impact the religious right's anti-science bias will have on R&D and global competitiveness.

I'll take 100K x bias against govt funded science R&D versus 1 x bias against health care provider profitability.

ROYC75
09-20-2010, 03:42 PM
I don't care if the office is POTUS or dogcatcher.

Unqualified is unqualified.

Obama was unqualified for POTUS.

McCain was.

The people will vote on the candidate that most aligns with their personal views. It's that simple, unless you are Obama and can sell snake oil to the people.

BucEyedPea
09-20-2010, 03:42 PM
What scares me is her demonstrated aversion to "facts" and "reality".

For example, condoms do not have a 20% failure rate, and abstinence-only eduction is categorically not successful.

A U.S. Senator should live in the real world, not some sort of ultra-conservative Catholic fantasyland.

BTW, she would have been 30-ish when she gave those quotes. Hardly young and stupid, unless we're operating under the W alcoholism/DUI standard.

Govt out of the bedroom!


Now how many other senators are there that won't go her way?

ROYC75
09-20-2010, 03:44 PM
I don't need to see those quotes in context.

From her bio, it's clear she's not a serious person. They're entirely consistent with her background.

She just said this past weekend she did not feel that way with all of the crap the Liberals are spewing out . That she was young and stupid at the time.

BucEyedPea
09-20-2010, 03:46 PM
That is not true BEP. To us she's just another Michelle Bachman. You know, the kookoo who brands anything left of her radical Right stance "Un-American" and wants to have investigations on unAmerican activities.
What's wrong with Michelle Bachman? She's intelligent. Never heard anything about the "Un-American activities" though. Since when have we gone all Crucible?

You are well-read, BEP, especially about political history. How did the last time some Ridical Right legislator got some power work out?

Thank you. Don't forget though I AM a conservative....despite being a reformed and repentant liberal. ( not as far as today's left today though)

I think you have to see the nuance in my argument. I don't think she's a great choice I just don't see as much to fear in her as you do. Not with other people up there.
Not since I believe in less govt overall. I mean it's like some of the things said about Palin that went to far. But I won't vote for Palin for president either.

BucEyedPea
09-20-2010, 03:52 PM
Excellent post.

Personally, I'm fearful of the impact the religious right's anti-science bias will have on R&D and global competitiveness.

You don't have to be anti-science to not believe govt funded science politicizes it and does not keep it free or that not crowding out private sector R&D can keep us just as competitive....perhaps more so.

You actually think one person could swing things her way? I don't.

ROYC75
09-20-2010, 03:55 PM
Besides, O'Donnell said she was on her first date ? Didn't say she believed in it. Dabbled is not living it. It appears she was having a good laugh with the crowd on a comedy show.

BTW Pittsie, have you never made a mistake in your life?

Cave Johnson
09-20-2010, 04:09 PM
Besides, O'Donnell said she was on her first date ? Didn't say she believed in it. Dabbled is not living it. It appears she was having a good laugh with the crowd on a comedy show.

BTW Pittsie, have you never made a mistake in your life?

More than a few. But I'm not running for elected office and placing my life under the same kind of scrutiny.

go bowe
09-20-2010, 04:19 PM
More than a few. But I'm not running for elected office and placing my life under the same kind of scrutiny.well, maybe you should...

we're hear to listen... :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: