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Count Alex's Losses
09-20-2010, 12:04 PM
Chiefs get gashed last year with Jackson in the lineup against Cleveland.

Remove him and the Chiefs get by just fine and play one of their better defensive games in recent memory.

The guy is a big pile of nothing. Shaun Smith, a guy off the NFL scrap heap, replaced him and there was no discernible falloff.

$60m wasted.

L.A. Chieffan
09-20-2010, 12:06 PM
i fucking hate TJax so far but even I cant approve this

DaKCMan AP
09-20-2010, 12:07 PM
Unoriginal troll.

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 12:10 PM
Quality on par with WPI articles.

LaChapelle
09-20-2010, 12:25 PM
Even prejudiced minds need more than 1 sample size

LiL stumppy
09-20-2010, 12:39 PM
Chiefs get gashed last year with Jackson in the lineup against Cleveland.

Remove him and the Chiefs get by just fine and play one of their better defensive games in recent memory.

The guy is a big pile of nothing. Shaun Smith, a guy off the NFL scrap heap, replaced him and there was no discernible falloff.

$60m wasted.

you are a dumb POS. One DE does not make the difference in the amount of rushing yards in both game.

Not to mention Jackson looked very good agaisnt SD. How long did it take Dorsey to start playing good? A while. Same thing with Jackson

Thig Lyfe
09-20-2010, 12:40 PM
let's trade him for a 6th rounder so we can find our Tom Brady

Donger
09-20-2010, 12:41 PM
Play with it, son, but don't talk to it.

Fish
09-20-2010, 12:43 PM
How can the dude be built like a brick shithouse, yet be such a pussy on the field?

Messier
09-20-2010, 12:46 PM
I don't think it speaks to how mediocre Tyson Jackson is, I think it speaks to how great Shawn Smith is!

chiefsnorth
09-20-2010, 12:47 PM
It was Cleveland.

CupidStunt
09-20-2010, 12:48 PM
Dorsey and Edwards also got ran over last year. There's a thing called "coaching" in the NFL - it's said to help players get better.

Saulbadguy
09-20-2010, 12:50 PM
Dorsey and Edwards also got ran over last year. There's a thing called "coaching" in the NFL - it's said to help players get better.

Gee, from the tone of the board in this offseason, I thought we universally discredited that.

Marcellus
09-20-2010, 12:51 PM
Some people aren't smart enough to understand that you can't prove a negative.

We won the game without Jared Allen on defense. Good trade.

Mr. Laz
09-20-2010, 12:54 PM
saw a few things from Jackson in the Chargers game that i never saw in his first year.

I think i'll give him some more time.

Thread Fail

FAX
09-20-2010, 12:56 PM
The absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absinthe.

This may be the exception, though.

FAX

booyaf2
09-20-2010, 12:57 PM
Get to work on Gif'd up already.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 12:57 PM
Some people aren't smart enough to understand that you can't prove a negative.


What effect did Tyson Jacksonís absence have?

Virtually none. And thatís not good for the Chiefs or last yearís No. 3 overall draft pick. Jackson sat out Sunday because of a knee injury, and a newcomer to Kansas City football would have never known that Jackson wasnít there. The Chiefs still held the Browns to 73 rushing yards, and backup end Wallace Gilberry had the teamís only sack. Jackson might never be a Pro Bowler, but the Chiefs should at least notice when heís gone.


And some people just can't handle the truth.

Messier
09-20-2010, 01:09 PM
And some people just can't handle the truth.

No, I think the fact that Kurt Warner won the super bowl with the Rams proves how bad Trent Green was.

Marcellus
09-20-2010, 01:10 PM
And some people just can't handle the truth.

There was plenty to bitch about from that game. Playing well despite missing our starting LDE is not one of them.

Anybody that says that is proof that Jackson will make no impact this season on defense is just stupid.

I can handle the truth, dumbass comments and theories are harder to "handle".

I think the guy is likely to be a massive bust so I am not defending him, the draft pick, or any opinion I have previously stated on CP.

It's just a stupid belief so say "look, TJ wasn't on the field and we only gave up 78 yards rushing, last year with him we gave up 286"

Shit bench him the rest of the season and we are SB bound.

TheGuardian
09-20-2010, 01:15 PM
Gee, from the tone of the board in this offseason, I thought we universally discredited that.

Just another thing the ring of drafturbators got wrong. Like I said, these guys know jack and shit and jack left town.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 01:27 PM
There was plenty to bitch about from that game. Playing well despite missing our starting LDE is not one of them.

Anybody that says that is proof that Jackson will make no impact this season on defense is just stupid.

I can handle the truth, dumbass comments and theories are harder to "handle".

I think the guy is likely to be a massive bust so I am not defending him, the draft pick, or any opinion I have previously stated on CP.

It's just a stupid belief so say "look, TJ wasn't on the field and we only gave up 78 yards rushing, last year with him we gave up 286"

Shit bench him the rest of the season and we are SB bound.

Overreact much?

Seriously, you're dense. I mean, DENSE.

philfree
09-20-2010, 01:30 PM
From watching the game I didn't think we got as much push on the left side of the D early in the game. It wasn't like we were missing a pro bowler but I think Jackson being out did make a small difference.


PhilFree:arrow:

Smed1065
09-20-2010, 01:35 PM
i fucking hate TJax so far but even I cant approve this

Attention whore no? OP.

I can prove it!

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 01:40 PM
Petro is going full retard right now on Eric Berry, slamming him for not shutting down Antonio Gates. LMAO

Ralphy Boy
09-20-2010, 01:40 PM
One DE does not make the difference in the amount of rushing yards in both game.

Not to mention Jackson looked very good agaisnt SD. How long did it take Dorsey to start playing good? A while. Same thing with Jackson

All true. I hated, HATED, the TJ pick from halfway thru last season all the way up until last week against SD. He looked to be much improved, so I'm holding out hope that Pioli is worth what he is being paid and so is TJ.

Tuckdaddy
09-20-2010, 01:45 PM
ROFLROFLROFLSome people aren't smart enough to understand that you can't prove a negative.

We won the game without Jared Allen on defense. Good trade.

Ye SIR! Outstanding point. I am willing to give Jackon a junior year before the term bust is used.

Tuckdaddy
09-20-2010, 01:53 PM
Petro is going full retard right now on Eric Berry, slamming him for not shutting down Antonio Gates. LMAO

What? One player is not going to shut down Gates, Romey shut him down with double coverage.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 01:56 PM
ROFLROFLROFL

Ye SIR! Outstanding point. I am willing to give Jackon a junior year before the term bust is used.

Who used the word "Bust" in this thread?

There are two issues related to this topic:

1. Tyson Jackson's presence was not missed yesterday.

2. The Chiefs clearly have more depth at DE than last year.

While it's nice that the Chiefs have some depth, it's a little disappointing that he was replaced, with little to no dropoff, by a guy off the street. Jackson played much better in the San Diego game than in any game last year but that in no way, shape or form justifies his selection at #3 overall.

At this point, we can only hope that his play continues to ascend once he returns.

LiL stumppy
09-20-2010, 02:02 PM
How long did it take DJ to "play to his potentiol?" Basically 5 or 6 years.
Dorsey? Was it 2?
Charles? 1 1/2?
Bowe? Not yet, but could be due to lack of a QB
Eric Berry? Not there yet, will take some time.

A lot of players can come into this leauge and play very well in the first game till the end of their careers.. A lot can't, you have to develope the younge talent.

Many are also forgeting TJack and Dorsey are playing different positions than they did in college.. It's a time thing.

Jackson looked VERY good in the SD game. I think you have to give most rookies about 3 years before you dub them a "bust"

Slainte
09-20-2010, 02:11 PM
Chiefs get gashed last year with Jackson in the lineup against Cleveland.

Remove him and the Chiefs get by just fine and play one of their better defensive games in recent memory.

The guy is a big pile of nothing. Shaun Smith, a guy off the NFL scrap heap, replaced him and there was no discernible falloff.

$60m wasted.

Isn't your stupid ass supposed to be posting a copy of each game to TenYards...?

Get to work, bitch...

Mr. Laz
09-20-2010, 02:12 PM
Who used the word "Bust" in this thread?$60m wasted.

bust ... wasted

pretty much the same thing

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 02:13 PM
One possibility I don't think anybody has considered is that Jackson could've have had an even better game than the guys who played for him.

HemiEd
09-20-2010, 02:13 PM
saw a few things from Jackson in the Chargers game that i never saw in his first year.

I think i'll give him some more time.

Thread Fail this

CrazyHorse
09-20-2010, 02:15 PM
I thought TJ played well in the preseason. He was consistently around the ball in the game he was injured. I think you will see marked improvement in year 2 from TJ.

The thread starter has a very shallow resevior to think from. I'm unimpressed.

Marcellus
09-20-2010, 02:15 PM
Who used the word "Bust" in this thread?

There are two issues related to this topic:

1. Tyson Jackson's presence was not missed yesterday.

2. The Chiefs clearly have more depth at DE than last year.

While it's nice that the Chiefs have some depth, it's a little disappointing that he was replaced, with little to no dropoff, by a guy off the street. Jackson played much better in the San Diego game than in any game last year but that in no way, shape or form justifies his selection at #3 overall.

At this point, we can only hope that his play continues to ascend once he returns.

What you say above sounds completely reasonable and fine to me.

What you are saying and what the OP is saying aren't really the same. 1 is an observation that sounds reasonable. The other is an over reaction.

Chiefs get gashed last year with Jackson in the lineup against Cleveland.

Remove him and the Chiefs get by just fine and play one of their better defensive games in recent memory.

The guy is a big pile of nothing. Shaun Smith, a guy off the NFL scrap heap, replaced him and there was no discernible falloff.

$60m wasted.

Chocolate Hog
09-20-2010, 02:16 PM
Dexter McCluster is Kris Wilson.

Dantrlle Savage is Priest Holmes.

/GoChiefs

BigMeatballDave
09-20-2010, 02:21 PM
Given the fact that it usually takes 2-3 full seasons for DL to 'get it'. I'm willing to give TJ another yr to declare him a bust.

</post>
09-20-2010, 02:31 PM
Dorsey and Edwards also got ran over last year. There's a thing called "coaching" in the NFL - it's said to help players get better.

Although it doesn't excuse the rest of the year. Dorsey didn't play against Cleveland when we got raped last year.

Mr. Arrowhead
09-20-2010, 03:09 PM
Dorsey and Edwards also got ran over last year. There's a thing called "coaching" in the NFL - it's said to help players get better.

Dorsey was out last year against clev.

chiefs1okie
09-20-2010, 03:15 PM
:clap:One possibility I don't think anybody has considered is that Jackson could've have had an even better game than the guys who played for him.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2010, 03:19 PM
You can't judge his impact from that game just like how you can't judge our rush defense from the fact that we've played two horrible rushing offenses.

A much better test of our rush D, and how much we miss Jackson, will be the 49ers.

The_Doctor10
09-20-2010, 03:33 PM
How long did it take DJ to "play to his potentiol?" Basically 5 or 6 years.
Dorsey? Was it 2?
Charles? 1 1/2?
Bowe? Not yet, but could be due to lack of a QB
Eric Berry? Not there yet, will take some time.

A lot of players can come into this leauge and play very well in the first game till the end of their careers.. A lot can't, you have to develope the younge talent.

Many are also forgeting TJack and Dorsey are playing different positions than they did in college.. It's a time thing.

Jackson looked VERY good in the SD game. I think you have to give most rookies about 3 years before you dub them a "bust"

For what little it's worth, Dwayne Bowe posted two 1000-yard seasons; was he perfect, of course not, but I'd say most teams should be happy when the 1st-round WR puts up those numbers. It was only last year that he really wasn't a relevant player.

Chiefless
09-20-2010, 03:38 PM
Chiefs D would have been even awesomer with T-Jack in the lineup.

Smed1065
09-20-2010, 03:41 PM
Troller.

Oh its ok. dane did...........

Dicky McElephant
09-20-2010, 03:43 PM
Many are also forgeting TJack and Dorsey are playing different positions than they did in college.. It's a time thing.

Dude.....Tyson Jackson was thought of as your prototypical 3-4 DE. You act like he was talked about as a pass rushing DE.

Marcellus
09-20-2010, 03:44 PM
Chiefs D would have been even awesomer with T-Jack in the lineup.

Moorer awesomer.

LiL stumppy
09-20-2010, 04:07 PM
For what little it's worth, Dwayne Bowe posted two 1000-yard seasons; was he perfect, of course not, but I'd say most teams should be happy when the 1st-round WR puts up those numbers. It was only last year that he really wasn't a relevant player.

True, but he also was in the top 3 in the leauge in dropped passes.

IMO not worth a first rounder, but to some, not a huge deal.

LiL stumppy
09-20-2010, 04:08 PM
Dude.....Tyson Jackson was thought of as your prototypical 3-4 DE. You act like he was talked about as a pass rushing DE.

But did he play it in college?

Dicky McElephant
09-20-2010, 04:08 PM
But did he play it in college?

Who gives a fuck if he played it or not. He was known around the league as the prototypical 3-4 DE.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 04:14 PM
You can't judge his impact from that game just like how you can't judge our rush defense from the fact that we've played two horrible rushing offenses.

I've stated recently that I think it will take somewhere around eight games before we truly know what the Chiefs have defensively.

A much better test of our rush D, and how much we miss Jackson, will be the 49ers.

Possibly, depending on the outcome of tonight's game. Personally, I look to the Texans and Colts games as a true barometer of the Chiefs progress, with or without Jackson.

Mr. Laz
09-20-2010, 04:16 PM
Who gives a fuck if he played it or not. He was known around the league as the prototypical 3-4 DE.
the same league people who get so many things wrong in the draft?

CaliforniaChief
09-20-2010, 04:17 PM
I've stated recently that I think it will take somewhere around eight games before we truly know what the Chiefs have defensively.



Possibly, depending on the outcome of tonight's game. Personally, I look to the Texans and Colts games as a true barometer of the Chiefs progress, with or without Jackson.

Oh Lord. How are we going to protect the QB against those two teams?

Did you see Freeney and Mathis last night? *gulp*

Ok, one game at a time.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 04:19 PM
Oh Lord. How are we going to protect the QB against those two teams?

I'd expect the Chiefs to run the shit out of the ball and use a limited amount of playaction.

I also expect to see a bunch of double-tightend sets.

But then again, what do I know? Weis and Haley may find other ways to protect Cassel.

LiL stumppy
09-20-2010, 04:19 PM
Who gives a fuck if he played it or not. He was known around the league as the prototypical 3-4 DE.

So because he has prototypical size to play one possion means he should automatically know how to play it...

Wow, your a dipshit.. I am done waisting my time with your dumbass.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 04:20 PM
So because he has prototypical size to play one possion means he should automatically know how to play it...

Wow, your a dipshit.. I am done waisting my time with your dumbass.

He was drafted #3 overall.

There should be little to no learning curve.

He wasn't a third rounder, but #3 overall. He should be expected to step in and play at a high level.

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 04:24 PM
I've stated recently that I think it will take somewhere around eight games before we truly know what the Chiefs have defensively.



Possibly, depending on the outcome of tonight's game. Personally, I look to the Texans and Colts games as a true barometer of the Chiefs progress, with or without Jackson.I think the indy game might be a true barometer if it came later in the season. But we're talking about rookie safeties with four starts under their belts against Peyton fucking Manning.

That one's probably not going to end well.

Dicky McElephant
09-20-2010, 04:26 PM
So because he has prototypical size to play one possion means he should automatically know how to play it...

Wow, your a dipshit.. I am done waisting my time with your dumbass.

That hurts coming from a retard like you. How about you actually fucking pay attention to the draft before you spew your retarded comments from your pie hole.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 04:27 PM
I think the indy game might be a true barometer if it came later in the season. But we're talking about rookie safeties with four starts under their belts against Peyton fucking Manning.

That one's probably not going to end well.

While I agree, it'll be the after the first quarter of the season and after the bye week.

Berry is clearly a work in progress with respect to the passing game, but I do expect him to improve each week. Lewis *appears* to be on the right track as well.

I think it will be interesting to see how the Chiefs run defense stacks up against the Colts ground attack because they looked awfully good last night.

Overall, it should give us an idea of where the Chiefs stand at that point.

BigMeatballDave
09-20-2010, 04:29 PM
I'd expect the Chiefs to run the shit out of the ball and use a limited amount of playaction.

I also expect to see a bunch of double-tightend sets.

But then again, what do I know? Weis and Haley may find other ways to protect Cassel.Yeah, I expect to see a lot of the Shotgun. And draws run out of that shotgun. Probably see some wildcat too.

clyde05
09-20-2010, 04:29 PM
turk mcbride already has 2 sacks for lions, so it takes time to develop. I think that sometimes the chiefs are too impatient, look at pollard now.

Dicky McElephant
09-20-2010, 04:30 PM
So because he has prototypical size to play one possion means he should automatically know how to play it...

Wow, your a dipshit.. I am done waisting my time with your dumbass.

From NFL.com

Pick Analysis: The Chiefs pick up the best 3-4 defensive end on the board with their selection of Jackson. Though the pick was a bit of a surprise, Jackson gives the team a stout player on the edge capable of occupying multiple blockers at the point of attack.

LiL stumppy
09-20-2010, 04:30 PM
He was drafted #3 overall.

There should be little to no learning curve.

He wasn't a third rounder, but #3 overall. He should be expected to step in and play at a high level.

I agree 100%. But I don't see how people are so oblivious to what is happening. The end of last year into this year Dorsey started doing what he was drafted to do. It takes time, your seriously going to right off a freaking player off of one bad season??? Guess Manning should have never had another chance! Should have cut DJ, and Dorsey. Jackson didn't play to his potentiol last year, and I didn't think he would.. He looked VERY good in week 1. I gurentee he will be a future pro-bowler.





That hurts coming from a retard like you. How about you actually fucking pay attention to the draft before you spew your retarded comments from your pie hole.

LMAO Hey dipshit, wtf did I say that contradicts what happened in the draft? Jesus this is like arghuing with a 3 year old girl. dipshit

Dicky McElephant
09-20-2010, 04:32 PM
ROFL at Tyson Jackson being a future pro-bowler.

You really expect a 3-4 DE to be a Pro Bowler?

LiL stumppy
09-20-2010, 04:32 PM
From NFL.com

I am not saying he wasn't viewed as a 3-4 end dipshit. Look at what I said. I said because he is viewed as one, even though he has NEVER PLAYED that technique/position, doesn't always mean he will step right in to it and perform lights out.

LiL stumppy
09-20-2010, 04:33 PM
ROFL at Tyson Jackson being a future pro-bowler.

You really expect a 3-4 DE to be a Pro Bowler?

Ill give you that, pro-bowler might be a little excepsive due to him being a 3-4. But he will be a starter, and produce well on this team for many years

Dicky McElephant
09-20-2010, 04:34 PM
He fucking should be. He was the third overall pick and he's making an ass of money. He better play lights out for his entire contract.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 04:38 PM
I agree 100%. But I don't see how people are so oblivious to what is happening. The end of last year into this year Dorsey started doing what he was drafted to do. It takes time, your seriously going to right off a freaking player off of one bad season??? Guess Manning should have never had another chance! Should have cut DJ, and Dorsey. Jackson didn't play to his potentiol last year, and I didn't think he would.. He looked VERY good in week 1. I gurentee he will be a future pro-bowler.

1. Dorsey was coming off of fracture his rookie season and was played out of position. In season two, he was the Chiefs best defensive lineman and once again, he played a position he'd never played before. There were many of us preaching patience with him because he's a very talented player. In 2010, for the first time in his pro career, he entered camp and the season in excellent condition and is playing lights out.

2. Manning? You're going to compare the pedigree of Peyton Manning to that of Tyson Jackson? Child, please.

:facepalm:

3. You're going to guarantee that Tyson Jackson, the WORST defensive end in all of football in 2009, is going to reach Pro Bowl level status? First off, he'd need to become an every down player instead of just on first and second downs. Then, he'd need to learn how to rush the passer, considering he'd be going up against 4-3 defensive ends who's primary mission is to sack the QB.

Not gonna happen.

TheGuardian
09-20-2010, 04:38 PM
He was drafted #3 overall.

There should be little to no learning curve.

He wasn't a third rounder, but #3 overall. He should be expected to step in and play at a high level.

This is why you are a dumb fuck.

Even #1 overall draft picks on defensive line can struggle for a few years before they get it.

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 04:40 PM
I think it will be interesting to see how the Chiefs run defense stacks up against the Colts ground attack because they looked awfully good last night.I'm not sure last night's game didn't say more about the continuing decline of the giants than it did the Colts.

I think I mentioned before the season that I expected our run defense to be improved and our passing defense to be the main problem (as I recall you were suggesting the opposite) and I think so far that's what we've seen. We still can't generate a pass rush, and if we can't touch Manning, I don't think Indy will even bother with running it. He'll pick apart any zone we play, and if we go to man and try blitzing, it's going to put the safeties in bad, bad situations.

chiefhawk1
09-20-2010, 04:40 PM
I agree with stumppy throughout this thread. Those of you thinking that he would come in and immediately be an impact player are clueless. He didn't play a 3-4 in college, he played a 4-3. The technique is different it takes some learning and coaching. Dorsey sure didn't play great right away, but in year 3, he is playing much better. Give him some time.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 04:41 PM
This is why you are a dumb fuck.

Even #1 overall draft picks on defensive line can struggle for a few years before they get it.

Just shut the fuck up.

Are you drinking this early?

Furthermore, please explain to us all why it should take "years" for Tyson Jackson to learn how to play on first and second downs.

Retardian.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 04:43 PM
I agree with stumppy throughout this thread. Those of you thinking that he would come in and immediately be an impact player are clueless. He didn't play a 3-4 in college, he played a 4-3. The technique is different it takes some learning and coaching. Dorsey sure didn't play great right away, but in year 3, he is playing much better. Give him some time.

He was #3 overall. He played like a 7th rounder last year.

Jared Odrick has made more impact for Miami in their first two games than Tyson Jackson did in 16 last year.

You're welcome to make excuses for his play all you want.

I, on the other hand, won't.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 04:46 PM
I'm not sure last night's game didn't say more about the continuing decline of the giants than it did the Colts.

Perry Fewell certainly hasn't been the savior they were expecting to date.

I think I mentioned before the season that I expected our run defense to be improved and our passing defense to be the main problem (as I recall you were suggesting the opposite)

You recall correctly, which is why I believe it will take somewhere around eight games to determine to what degree this defense has improved.

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 04:49 PM
Jared Odrick has made more impact for Miami in their first two games than Tyson Jackson did in 16 last year.Randy Starks might possibly have something to do with that.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 04:51 PM
Randy Starks might possibly have something to do with that.

Their linebackers have been making play after play after play.

I wonder what the Chiefs defense would have looked like with Koa Misi & Karlos Dansby...

Dicky McElephant
09-20-2010, 04:53 PM
Their linebackers have been making play after play after play.

I wonder what the Chiefs defense would have looked like with Koa Misi & Karlos Dansby...

Fucking amazing.

Dicky McElephant
09-20-2010, 04:53 PM
I still wish we'd fucking trade a pick for Sammie Lee Hill.

LiL stumppy
09-20-2010, 04:53 PM
1. Dorsey was coming off of fracture his rookie season and was played out of position. In season two, he was the Chiefs best defensive lineman and once again, he played a position he'd never played before. There were many of us preaching patience with him because he's a very talented player. In 2010, for the first time in his pro career, he entered camp and the season in excellent condition and is playing lights out.

2. Manning? You're going to compare the pedigree of Peyton Manning to that of Tyson Jackson? Child, please.

:facepalm:

3. You're going to guarantee that Tyson Jackson, the WORST defensive end in all of football in 2009, is going to reach Pro Bowl level status? First off, he'd need to become an every down player instead of just on first and second downs. Then, he'd need to learn how to rush the passer, considering he'd be going up against 4-3 defensive ends who's primary mission is to sack the QB.

Not gonna happen.

Pedigree huh? Yes I am comparing them, they're both professional athletes.

Your saying that we are making excuses for TJack, but what did you just do with Dorsey? That my friend is an excuse.

Plain and simple, people who didn't like the pick are writing him off as a bust.

Mark my words, he WILL be a good player, and you WILL see progression this year.

Takes time, just with Dorsey.

God the stupidity of some people amazes me, I can't believe you are already writing off a guy who had a bad year on a bad D, playing a position/technique he never played..

I am done talking with you about this, because you obviously have no clue what your talking about.

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2010, 04:54 PM
Just shut the **** up.

Are you drinking this early?

Furthermore, please explain to us all why it should take "years" for Tyson Jackson to learn how to play on first and second downs.

Retardian.

It shouldn't take years, but there's reason to believe it should take time. The 3-4 DE isn't close to the same position he played in college. In college, he was an attacking DT. In a 3-4, it's more about reading and reacting instead of plain attacking. You have to know the gap to hit and then explode to it. Jackson shouldn't have been that bad, but that doesn't mean that he can't get much better with experience.

As I've said before, he'll never live up to his pick, but he could become a decent starter.

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 04:54 PM
You recall correctly, which is why I believe it will take somewhere around eight games to determine to what degree this defense has improved.Unless we suddenly start hitting QBs and opposing receivers suddenly stop being wide open in the middle of the field, I would imagine that not a whole lot is likely to change in terms of passing defense being a greater weakness.

Which as you know is not the same thing as saying rushing defense is a strength.

Although I will say that I thought it was yesterday. Hillis hurt them more than he maybe should have, but they never gave up any real back-breaking runs, which is a change from (recent) past KC defenses.

But I think guys like Manning and Schaub are going to look at this defense and just start to salivate, at least until they find a consistent pass rusher opposite of Hali. Right now we either blitz, or give the qb 5 seconds to slowly decide which open receiver to hit.

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2010, 04:56 PM
Chiefs get gashed last year with Jackson in the lineup against Cleveland.

Remove him and the Chiefs get by just fine and play one of their better defensive games in recent memory.

The guy is a big pile of nothing. Shaun Smith, a guy off the NFL scrap heap, replaced him and there was no discernible falloff.

$60m wasted.

No discernable fallout? We were completely invisible in the pass rush. Completely. And it's really easy to stop the run when your defense is basically daring the QB to throw deep on you. Did you notice how often Cleveland threw deep? It's because the Chiefs were crowding the line.

Shaun Smith played well. But if Jackson played as he did in San Diego, he's a significant upgrade.

FAX
09-20-2010, 04:56 PM
On TJ. Everybody (I thought) knows that it takes time to develop an NFL defensive lineman. Some teams are better at it than others, though. Jury's out on TJ, unfortunately.

On Colts: Romeo will have some plans for the Mannings, I'm sure. He knows as well as anyone that you cannot throw the football very well while you're planted on your Peyton.

FAX

Dicky McElephant
09-20-2010, 04:59 PM
It shouldn't take years, but there's reason to believe it should take time. The 3-4 DE isn't close to the same position he played in college. In college, he was an attacking DT. In a 3-4, it's more about reading and reacting instead of plain attacking. You have to know the gap to hit and then explode to it. Jackson shouldn't have been that bad, but that doesn't mean that he can't get much better with experience.

As I've said before, he'll never live up to his pick, but he could become a decent starter.

Jackson played a majority of his snaps at LDE in college.

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 05:00 PM
Their linebackers have been making play after play after play.

I wonder what the Chiefs defense would have looked like with Koa Misi & Karlos Dansby...I was wondering that myself.

Then again, so far it's hard to complain about we're seeing here. DJ looks like a completely different player. He's all over the field. I think the tough love worked. And I really like what I'm seeing out of Belcher so far. Curious to see what kind of player he'll be going forward. Find somebody to cycle into Vrabel's slot (sorry, I'm still not on the studebaker bandwagon - I need to see more to be convinced he's not just Maslowski, 2010 edition) and we may really have something.

Marcellus
09-20-2010, 05:03 PM
On TJ. Everybody (I thought) knows that it takes time to develop an NFL defensive lineman. Some teams are better at it than others, though. Jury's out on TJ, unfortunately.

On Colts: Romeo will have some plans for the Mannings, I'm sure. He knows as well as anyone that you cannot throw the football very well while you're planted on your Peyton.

FAX

If we just had Ty Law, that dude has Peyton's freaking number for some reason.

FAX
09-20-2010, 05:03 PM
The defensive attitude on the field has changed 180 degrees. The linebacker play is dramatically better, the line play is better, and the secondary has the potential to be great ... for a lot of years, great. Romeo has done wonders for the defense overall ... significantly improved.

Now, if he'd just kick Mark Castle's ass.

FAX

Count Alex's Losses
09-20-2010, 05:05 PM
No discernable fallout? We were completely invisible in the pass rush. Completely.

So?

Jackson doesn't rush the passer.

BossChief
09-20-2010, 05:07 PM
In college, he was an attacking DT. Tyson Jackson wasnt an attacker in college from my recollection.


In fact, I think he 2gaped.

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 05:10 PM
In fact, I think he 2gaped.2 gape? That sounds like something I saw that one time back when in an amsterdam strip club.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2010, 05:24 PM
Jackson was a run stopping left end in college. He has long arms and good height/weight so they thought he'd be a safe and ideal 3 technique.

He's never going to be a guy who is going to rush the passer or even attempt to do so. If he ends up with more than 15 career sacks, I'll be stunned.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 05:38 PM
I was wondering that myself.

Then again, so far it's hard to complain about we're seeing here. DJ looks like a completely different player. He's all over the field. I think the tough love worked. And I really like what I'm seeing out of Belcher so far. Curious to see what kind of player he'll be going forward. Find somebody to cycle into Vrabel's slot (sorry, I'm still not on the studebaker bandwagon - I need to see more to be convinced he's not just Maslowski, 2010 edition) and we may really have something.

I was on the Belcher bandwagon last season, as he looked like the linebacker with the most potential in that group. DJ has been a different player this year, no doubt about it. I have no idea whether it's the new coaches or being more comfortable in the scheme or maturing as a person but if he continues to play like this for all 16 games, he's going to be rewarded with a nice, big, fat contract this offseason.

Misi would have been a nice three down player. Hali is maxed out and ineffective against the run, so the Chiefs really need to grab two linebackers next year and IMO, use Hali as a situational pass rusher.

Hali, Dansby, DJ and Misi would have been a very explosive lineup, but hopefully, Belcher will continue to ascend and the Chiefs will grab a pair of rushbackers in the next draft.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 05:40 PM
If we just had Ty Law, that dude has Peyton's freaking number for some reason.

I believe that Flowers will play a big role in that game.

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2010, 05:45 PM
Tyson Jackson wasnt an attacker in college from my recollection.


In fact, I think he 2gaped.

Sorry, I misspoke. I don't watch most of LSU defense, so someone correct me if I'm wrong. But in most defenses, the 3-technique and the 0-technique seem to have a lot more 2-gap responsibility. If I'm not mistaken, even if Jackson was more of a run-stopping DE in college, wasn't his role moreso to take 1:1 blocking and drive his blocker into the backfield? I'm pretty sure that the position he played is entirely different from a 5-technique.

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2010, 05:48 PM
So?

Jackson doesn't rush the passer.

While he has not been that effective rushing the passer, this preseason, he has been inconsistently effective at opening up lanes for LBs to zip through and he can inconsistently apply at least a little bit of outside pressure. While you can credit Vrabel and Studebaker for getting in the backfield quite a bit in the preseason, Jackson was the guy who usually took on the blocker that gave them that lane.

Again, I like Smith as a depth guy. But he's mostly a space eater. In the passing game, he really contributes close to nothing.

Count Alex's Losses
09-20-2010, 05:57 PM
While he has not been that effective rushing the passer, this preseason, he has been inconsistently effective at opening up lanes for LBs to zip through .

This is a load of bullshit.

Any toad off the scrap heap can occupy a blocker.

Jumping from that to "tyson jackson" gives the chiefs a better pass rush is 100 % spin.

BossChief
09-20-2010, 05:59 PM
Sorry, I misspoke. I don't watch most of LSU defense, so someone correct me if I'm wrong. But in most defenses, the 3-technique and the 0-technique seem to have a lot more 2-gap responsibility. If I'm not mistaken, even if Jackson was more of a run-stopping DE in college, wasn't his role moreso to take 1:1 blocking and drive his blocker into the backfield? I'm pretty sure that the position he played is entirely different from a 5-technique.

His responsibilities were a lot more similar than most think to what he does nowadays.

Ralphy Boy
09-20-2010, 06:22 PM
Weis and Haley may find other ways to protect Cassel.

Like bubble wrap or the Popemobile?

He ****ing should be. He was the third overall pick and he's making an ass of money. He better play lights out for his entire contract.

I've said more than once that it was a "can't win situation" for TJ. I didn't like the pick and I would never feel bad for someone that got as much money as he did, but he had no control, or expectation, of being drafted too high.


I am done talking with you about this, because you obviously have no clue what your talking about.

I worked customer service while in college and on more than one occassion I wished that I could say exactly this.

Unless we suddenly start hitting QBs and opposing receivers suddenly stop being wide open in the middle of the field, I would imagine that not a whole lot is likely to change in terms of passing defense being a greater weakness.

Which as you know is not the same thing as saying rushing defense is a strength.

Although I will say that I thought it was yesterday. Hillis hurt them more than he maybe should have, but they never gave up any real back-breaking runs, which is a change from (recent) past KC defenses.

But I think guys like Manning and Schaub are going to look at this defense and just start to salivate, at least until they find a consistent pass rusher opposite of Hali. Right now we either blitz, or give the qb 5 seconds to slowly decide which open receiver to hit.

Agree on all counts. Still can't believe we did so little in 09 & 10 to address our lack of a pass rush.

Find somebody to cycle into Vrabel's slot (sorry, I'm still not on the studebaker bandwagon - I need to see more to be convinced he's not just Maslowski, 2010 edition) and we may really have something.

Keg you are normally the voice of reason on here. I typically agree with everything you say but I think Studebaker is the most promising LB we have. What area is he lacking in?

Halfcan
09-20-2010, 06:25 PM
Tjack has been probably the worst pick since Simms-he just doesnt seem to have much energy out there. He did have a few tackles week one though-so that was incouraging.

Ralphy Boy
09-20-2010, 06:31 PM
I was on the Belcher bandwagon last season, as he looked like the linebacker with the most potential in that group. DJ has been a different player this year, no doubt about it. I have no idea whether it's the new coaches or being more comfortable in the scheme or maturing as a person but if he continues to play like this for all 16 games, he's going to be rewarded with a nice, big, fat contract this offseason.

And promptly become worthless.


Misi would have been a nice three down player. Hali is maxed out and ineffective against the run, so the Chiefs really need to grab two linebackers next year and IMO, use Hali as a situational pass rusher.
Hali, Dansby, DJ and Misi would have been a very explosive lineup, but hopefully, Belcher will continue to ascend and the Chiefs will grab a pair of rushbackers in the next draft.

This wouldn't shock me in the sense that it is probably what he is best suited for, but his motor and effort make him one of the leaders of this defense. Considering what was said by coaches last season, I think they'd have a hard time pulling him for anyone and certainly we don't have anyone worthy of benching him for right now. Romeo has shown that he has no problem doing that in the past.

I wish I could compare Tamba to Willie McGinest but Willie was definitely more athletic.

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2010, 06:38 PM
This is a load of bullshit.

Any toad off the scrap heap can occupy a blocker.

Jumping from that to "tyson jackson" gives the chiefs a better pass rush is 100 % spin.

If you think any toad off the scrap heap can occupy a blocker, then I don't understand why space eaters are given multi-million dollar contracts. Give me a fucking break. It takes very good technique, it takes recognition of gap control, and it takes a lot of strength and athleticism to block, shed, and hunt down. From what I have seen, Smith has done an okay job of occupying blockers and actually a pretty good job driving his blockers back. But he has not been asked to do a lot of block-and-sheds. It's a lot easier to play gap control when your back 7 is so unafraid of the pass that they're willing to help you clog up those gaps.

And Tyson Jackson is not a great pass rusher by any stretch. But he does more for the passing game than Shaun Smith. Seneca Wallace had a shitload of time to throw the ball on Sunday. And Vrabel/Studebaker were completely invisible in the pass rush. You can understand Dorsey getting swallowed up lining up against Joe Thomas. But Smith had a more than favorable matchup lining up against John St. Clair.

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 06:43 PM
Keg you are normally the voice of reason on here. I typically agree with everything you say but I think Studebaker is the most promising LB we have. What area is he lacking in?I guess I'm just harder to sell on legend status. Everybody fell in love with him after the Pittsburgh game, and it is a great story, his trip to the NFL, but I need more than a fluky play or two to anoint a guy. I think (hope) he'll take over for Vrabel eventually, but in terms of what this defense really needs (a double-digit pass rush), I don't think he's going to be the answer. I think he could play a role on the defense going forward, but I haven't seen anything from him yet that screams "this guy needs to be on the field right now, big things are coming!"

FAX
09-20-2010, 06:46 PM
I guess I'm just harder to sell on legend status. Everybody fell in love with him after the Pittsburgh game, and it is a great story, his trip to the NFL, but I need more than a fluky play or two to anoint a guy. I think (hope) he'll take over for Vrabel eventually, but in terms of what this defense really needs (a double-digit pass rush), I don't think he's going to be the answer. I think he could play a role on the defense going forward, but I haven't seen anything from him yet that screams "this guy needs to be on the field right now, big things are coming!"

He had a couple of real nice, front-of-the-class plays in pre-season. And, according to Haley, he's a hard worker who "gets it". There's good reason to be hopeful.

FAX

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 06:49 PM
He is a hard worker, there's no question about that.

Ralphy Boy
09-20-2010, 06:53 PM
I guess I'm just harder to sell on legend status. Everybody fell in love with him after the Pittsburgh game, and it is a great story, his trip to the NFL, but I need more than a fluky play or two to anoint a guy. I think (hope) he'll take over for Vrabel eventually, but in terms of what this defense really needs (a double-digit pass rush), I don't think he's going to be the answer. I think he could play a role on the defense going forward, but I haven't seen anything from him yet that screams "this guy needs to be on the field right now, big things are coming!"

Screw that, I'm crowning his ass!



Any toad off the scrap heap can occupy a blocker.



I get what you are saying, but you are really not helping sell subscriptions to WPI when you say something stupid like this.

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 07:07 PM
I get what you are saying, but you are really not helping sell subscriptions to WPI when you say something stupid like this.*cue mission impossible music*

FAX
09-20-2010, 07:16 PM
*cue mission impossible music*

ROFL

FAX

Count Alex's Losses
09-20-2010, 07:44 PM
And Tyson Jackson is not a great pass rusher by any stretch. But he does more for the passing game than Shaun Smith. Seneca Wallace had a shitload of time to throw the ball on Sunday.

More bs. Wallace was running for his life in the second half.

Putting TJ in would not have resulted in any appreciable difference.

Count Alex's Losses
09-20-2010, 07:45 PM
I get what you are saying, but you are really not helping sell subscriptions to WPI when you say something stupid like this.

Is this a joke? No one cares about that.

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2010, 07:52 PM
More bs. Wallace was running for his life in the second half.

Putting TJ in would not have resulted in any appreciable difference.

Seneca Wallace was sacked one time all game. The only reason he ever ran for his life on Sunday was because he couldn't find anyone open.

Our pass rush was not good at all on Sunday. I don't know if TJ makes any difference. But don't act like our pass rush wasn't a big problem on Sunday. We're just lucky that the Browns have the shittiest receivers in the league and a QB who is average at best at getting them the ball.

Ralphy Boy
09-20-2010, 08:01 PM
Is this a joke? No one cares about that.

Clearly.

Rausch
09-20-2010, 08:15 PM
Just shut the **** up.

Are you drinking this early?

Furthermore, please explain to us all why it should take "years" for Tyson Jackson to learn how to play on first and second downs.

Retardian.

ROFL

Iowanian
09-20-2010, 08:21 PM
Here is where I see TJax being a factor.


When he was at DE, Smith was getting alot better push at NT than Edwards...

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2010, 08:26 PM
Here is where I see TJax being a factor.


When he was at DE, Smith was getting alot better push at NT than Edwards...

I agree. I think that line combo is pretty solid. Anyone see how Torribio's been? Seemed to be pretty average from what I saw.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2010, 08:28 PM
Here is where I see TJax being a factor.


When he was at DE, Smith was getting alot better push at NT than Edwards...

But, keep in mind that Cleveland offensive line is way, way, way, way, way better than San Diego's at this point.

Cleveland's center, Alex Mack, was a first rounder, as was Joe Thomas. Their guards don't suck, either.

I hope Jackson comes back soon and makes a difference on the field but until we actually see it, it's just hopes and wishes.

Iowanian
09-20-2010, 08:33 PM
I agree, but I noticed it vs Sandy Eggo after Jackson went out.


I didn't watch closely enough to see how Torribo did, but I saw him on the sideline with grass stains, so he played.

keg in kc
09-20-2010, 09:18 PM
I agree, but I noticed it vs Sandy Eggo after Jackson went out.Yeah, that was the point in the 3rd quarter when their offense came out of their funk. I think the broken TD may have been the very next play in fact. Of course that was also about the time it quit raining, so it was probably a combination of factors.

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-20-2010, 09:24 PM
Chiefs get gashed last year with Jackson in the lineup against Cleveland.

Remove him and the Chiefs get by just fine and play one of their better defensive games in recent memory.

The guy is a big pile of nothing. Shaun Smith, a guy off the NFL scrap heap, replaced him and there was no discernible falloff.

$60m wasted.

JFC, He and Dorsey were KILLING against SD!

What the fuck did you drink today, son? :hmmm:

First, throwing love at Cassel(which I appreciate immensely as we all know how THAT has a tendency to turn out), and now ripping on T-Jack when he was finally starting to cook!

Mmm...confused I am.

Count Alex's Losses
09-20-2010, 10:04 PM
Seneca Wallace was sacked one time all game. The only reason he ever ran for his life on Sunday was because he couldn't find anyone open.


You are lying or incompetent.

Johnny Vegas
11-29-2010, 10:40 AM
still wtf has he done?