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View Full Version : Football Zone defense. Are you a fan?


luv
09-20-2010, 09:57 PM
Teach me something.

In other words, however you feel about it, please explain why. Advantages? Disadvantages?

-King-
09-20-2010, 09:58 PM
No Im a human. Fans spin, I don't.

luv
09-20-2010, 10:03 PM
No Im a human. Fans spin, I don't.

You should. It's fun.

Lame attempt at humor over sharing knowledge? Is that because of a lack of the latter?

Buck
09-20-2010, 10:04 PM
They are necessary if you want to win. I don't think you could name a team who runs a Man Coverage only defense.

kysirsoze
09-20-2010, 10:06 PM
I like zone defense when you don't have the speed to cover man to man. Even when you do, good zone defense can be really confusing for a QB and lead to turnovers. Bad to mediocre zone defense, OTOH, can be awful to watch. It can really get a rhythm going for the QB. I'm far from an expert, but that's my take.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2010, 10:06 PM
I prefer a press man scheme because it's easier to get after the QB. That said, the mistakes are more amplified and far more costly.

Unfortunately, with the way the modern NFL works, it's nigh impossible to run a base defense where your corners play man without at least zone help over the top, provided by the safeties, or in the middle of the field by your linebackers.

The zone isn't nearly as dynamic of a defense, and the bend-but-don't-break mentality strikes me as soft, but it is probably the best scheme in the current game given that you can't touch WRs.

Mecca
09-20-2010, 10:07 PM
Zone is the rage now because the amount of talent that would require you to run a man scheme is off the charts.

kysirsoze
09-20-2010, 10:08 PM
They are necessary if you want to win. I don't think you could name a team who runs a Man Coverage only defense.

Well, yeah. I guess when you say zone defense, I assume you mean "mostly zone" versus "mostly man."

But the Jets come pretty close I think. Don't they run a lot of cover 1 with crazy blitz packages? It helps to have Comartie and Revis at corner.

DaFace
09-20-2010, 10:08 PM
They are necessary if you want to win. I don't think you could name a team who runs a Man Coverage only defense.

Yeah, it's tough to say whether I "like" it because it has a role sometimes and doesn't other times. It's kinda like asking whether someone likes it when a team runs the ball.

Just like running vs. passing, some teams are better at zone defenses, and some are better at running man defenses. But all teams mix and match depending on the situation.

The form of zone that people really get irritated with is a prevent defense. You'll find a lot of people who hate that.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2010, 10:08 PM
It should be noted that all teams run hybrid schemes now anyway, but 80% of the time, they are playing a variation of Cover 2, Cover 3, or the currently popular "Triangle" coverage.

kysirsoze
09-20-2010, 10:09 PM
Zone is the rage now because the amount of talent that would require you to run a man scheme is off the charts.

Exactly, hence the Jets pulling it off better than most.

luv
09-20-2010, 10:10 PM
Yeah, it's tough to say whether I "like" it because it has a role sometimes and doesn't other times. It's kinda like asking whether someone likes it when a team runs the ball.

Just like running vs. passing, some teams are better at zone defenses, and some are better at running man defenses. But all teams mix and match depending on the situation.

The form of zone that people really get irritated with is a prevent defense. You'll find a lot of people who hate that.

Describe?

luv
09-20-2010, 10:11 PM
Safety falling for a draw and whiffing on coverage that a corner has to try to make up for. Example of.....

Mecca
09-20-2010, 10:12 PM
Until last year when Dom Capers was hired the Packers ran almost exclusively man coverage with Woodson and Harris, so much so that Harris discussed learning how to play zone before last year when the dude is ln his 30's.

Buck
09-20-2010, 10:12 PM
Describe?

3 down lineman rushing to the QB (or 4)

The LBs drop back 10 yards at the snap, corners and safeties drop back 15-20 yards at the snap.

Thats a prevent defense.

Mecca
09-20-2010, 10:13 PM
Describe?

It's the end of the game defense when they get real soft to not give up big plays so teams complete 10 yard passes like they're nothing.

-King-
09-20-2010, 10:13 PM
Describe?

Basically a defense that will allow 5-15 yard passes but protects the deep ball. Only valuable when the opposing team has less than about 30 seconds to score.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2010, 10:14 PM
Describe?

The prevent defense is basically an extreme version of what is called Cover 4. In Cover 4 you have 4 deep DBs to prevent the deep ball. A prevent takes it a step further where the LBs will drop back 8-12 yards from the LOS pre snap and then drop back even further with the goal of keeping everything in front of them to mitigate the big play.

It's why teams can go 80 yards in 5 plays. It's a stupid fucking philosophy for anything short of a Hail Mary.

Count Zarth
09-20-2010, 10:15 PM
Good schemes employ both man and zone concepts, mixed depending on the opponent, down and distance. Field position should be a factor, too.

Good coordinators know how to call the right coverage at the right time. I think one of Herm's failings in KC was that he blindly believed in Tony Dungy's tampa 2 to the detriment of the defense. Relied on it too much using players who didn't fit and a coordinator who didn't fit.

So it really depends on a lot of variables. If you exclusively run man or zone you're gonna get picked apart.

BTW, the zone defense was invented because of Bullet Bob Hayes, at least in part. He was so fast teams were scared to cover him man to man.

KCrockaholic
09-20-2010, 10:16 PM
The Jets are the only team that I can think of that uses man on a consistent basis.

But as far as zone goes, I think in today's NFL it's important to have a balance between the two. Some players are better in man. Some are better in zone. It's just a lot of it is preference, and a lot of it is how you dictate the opposing offense.

luv
09-20-2010, 10:16 PM
Definitely understand the prevent defense now.

wazu
09-20-2010, 10:17 PM
Pretty much agree with what's already been said. Man coverage can give you an advantage when you have superior match-ups, but in general, zone is the way to go. Players are looking forward, so increased potential for turnovers, and the big-play threat is mitigated.

KCrockaholic
09-20-2010, 10:17 PM
Good schemes employ both man and zone concepts, mixed depending on the opponent, down and distance. Field position should be a factor, too.

Good coordinators know how to call the right coverage at the right time. I think one of Herm's failings in KC was that he blindly believed in Tony Dungy's tampa 2 to the detriment of the defense. Relied on it too much using players who didn't fit and a coordinator who didn't fit.

So it really depends on a lot of variables. If you exclusively run man or zone you're gonna get picked apart.

BTW, the zone defense was invented because of Bullet Bob Hayes, at least in part. He was so fast teams were scared to cover him man to man.

Nice take. I completely agree.

Mecca
09-20-2010, 10:18 PM
Also you can't play man against a QB like Vick because if he breaks out and starts running all of your DB's have their backs to him.

Buck
09-20-2010, 10:19 PM
Really its all about disguising what you are running. If you ran solely man, or solely zone, it would be easier for an offense to scheme against you.

This is somewhat related, and you may not know this (most of you probably do)...

When you see a WR or TE go in motion one way, and then come back all they way to where they were to begin with, its their way of trying to see if the defense is running a man scheme or zone.

luv
09-20-2010, 10:21 PM
So, what has Berry been having a problem with so far? He's had a few plays where TD's were given up due to lack of coverage. I thought maybe it was due to not being used to our zone defense? Am I showing a complete lack of understanding?

Mecca
09-20-2010, 10:21 PM
Really its all about disguising what you are running. If you ran solely man, or solely zone, it would be easier for an offense to scheme against you.

This is somewhat related, and you may not know this (most of you probably do)...

When you see a WR or TE go in motion one way, and then come back all they way to where they were to begin with, its their way of trying to see if the defense is running a man scheme or zone.

Do you enjoy when people do that online on Madden to try to see what defense you're in?

Mr. Kotter
09-20-2010, 10:22 PM
I prefer a press man scheme because it's easier to get after the QB. That said, the mistakes are more amplified and far more costly.

Unfortunately, with the way the modern NFL works, it's nigh impossible to run a base defense where your corners play man without at least zone help over the top, provided by the safeties, or in the middle of the field by your linebackers.

The zone isn't nearly as dynamic of a defense, and the bend-but-don't-break mentality strikes me as soft, but it is probably the best scheme in the current game given that you can't touch WRs.

THIS. :thumb:

If you are real fan, that is.... ;)

Buck
09-20-2010, 10:22 PM
Do you enjoy when people do that online on Madden to try to see what defense you're in?

I don't really play video games online too often, but yeah, that would piss me off.

luv
09-20-2010, 10:22 PM
Really its all about disguising what you are running. If you ran solely man, or solely zone, it would be easier for an offense to scheme against you.

This is somewhat related, and you may not know this (most of you probably do)...

When you see a WR or TE go in motion one way, and then come back all they way to where they were to begin with, its their way of trying to see if the defense is running a man scheme or zone.

I did not know that.

Mecca
09-20-2010, 10:22 PM
So, what has Berry been having a problem with so far? He's had a few plays where TD's were given up due to lack of coverage. I thought maybe it was due to not being used to our zone defense? Am I showing a complete lack of understanding?

The one against Cleveland he bit on the run fake and came up for it and that misstep got him burned.

Against San Diego frankly he just went to the wrong way, when 3 guys go to 1, someone fucked up their assignment hence how Naane is by himself.

Mr. Kotter
09-20-2010, 10:23 PM
Also you can't play man against a QB like Vick because if he breaks out and starts running all of your DB's have their backs to him.

Is this your way of conveying your man-love for Mikie??? NTTAWWT. Just sayin'.... :)

Mecca
09-20-2010, 10:24 PM
I did not know that.

For example, if a offense has it's 2 WR's in twins, where they're lined up right next to each other and the other side is open...if there's still a CB up there on the open side it's zone.

Just like if a guy goes in motion, if no one follows him, it's zone, if a CB follows him down the line it's man.

-King-
09-20-2010, 10:24 PM
So, what has Berry been having a problem with so far? He's had a few plays where TD's were given up due to lack of coverage. I thought maybe it was due to not being used to our zone defense? Am I showing a complete lack of understanding?

He's biting on the play action. Most rookies do that. He has to learn how to tell the difference between a run and play action.

Mecca
09-20-2010, 10:26 PM
Berry is very good in run support and has already had several plays where he got in the backfield for a nice play...he just has to realize when the RB actually doesn't have the ball.

Cleveland took advantage of his aggressiveness and it turned into about a 70 yard TD.

KCrockaholic
09-20-2010, 10:27 PM
For example....I'd rather play a zone than put Tamba Hali or Belcher on Vernon Davis because in a zone it will force Smith to read the defense a split second longer, and Davis would shred Hali or Belcher in man coverage.

Man is also easier to read pre-snap for a QB.

Mecca
09-20-2010, 10:30 PM
There isn't a single player in the league that can cover Vernon Davis, it will require several guys.

Buck
09-20-2010, 10:32 PM
There isn't a single player in the league that can cover Vernon Davis, it will require several guys.

Same goes with Andre Johnson.

Did you see that catch he made to tie the game?

Ebolapox
09-21-2010, 08:30 AM
Describe?

srsly?

luv
09-21-2010, 08:52 AM
srsly?

You don't know until you ask. I've heard it referred to, but I did not know exactly what it meant. Would you rather me ask and learn or be another "fan" who knows nothing about the sport?

Sully
09-21-2010, 08:53 AM
When I'm running a HS defense, I'm running almost exclusively zone due to the talent of my guys, plus the fact that every HS QB can beat you by scrambling.
It also depends on the offense, too, though.
Blitzes are easier from man, but at lower levels (HS and college) you can blitz from zone, and just void a zone and hope to get to the QB before he figures out what you've left open.
The zone blitz is where you blitz "back seven" guys (LBs and DBs), and actually drop fat guys into a short zone.

Hamas is correct, though, that in the NFL and most colleges, you are seeing versions of Cover 2 (2 deep safeties) or Cover 3 (3 deep players). For instance, the Tampa 2 you always hear about is actually a cover 3. But instead of three DBs over the top, the MLB is expected to be your deep middle guy.

The problem with zone is that
A) there are always windows to throw through. If the QB has enough time, someone will find that gap between zones where the players "husband/wife" the route (I thought you had him! No, I thought you had him!)
B) you can end up with less athletic guys covering more athletic guys.

The positives are
A) you should be less susceptible to big plays, as everyone is facing the ball and can rally.
B) you don't have to always match up athlete to athlete.