PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs Fixing The Passing Game


FAX
09-22-2010, 01:41 PM
Obviously, we have issues in this area. Our quarterback is a sluggish dolt with no talent and a giant chin. Our receivers are (by many accounts) unable to separate from their respective defenders. Our play caller seems to be intent on perfecting the 4 yard incompletion. And, apparently, hitting McCluster in the flat is a play designed to make McCluster flat.

So, how do we fix the problem? Cassel isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so replacing the quarterback seems to be out of the question, our TE is going to find himself triple covered in upcoming games, and we don't have Sippio anymore.

I know that ChiefsPlanet can do this ... what is necessary to get a damn passing game established?

FAX

Disclaimers: Sorry if repost. Sorry if incomplete post.

CaliforniaChief
09-22-2010, 01:42 PM
So, how do we fix the problem? Cassel isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so replacing the quarterback seems to be out of the question, our TE is going to find himself triple covered in upcoming games, and we don't have Sippio anymore.

LMAO

The straw that breaks the camel's back!

johnny961
09-22-2010, 01:48 PM
Obviously, we have issues in this area. Our quarterback is a sluggish dolt with no talent and a giant chin. Our receivers are (by many accounts) unable to separate from their respective defenders. Our play caller seems to be intent on perfecting the 4 yard incompletion. And, apparently, hitting McCluster in the flat is a play designed to make McCluster flat.

So, how do we fix the problem? Cassel isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so replacing the quarterback seems to be out of the question, our TE is going to find himself triple covered in upcoming games, and we don't have Sippio anymore.

I know that ChiefsPlanet can do this ... what is necessary to get a damn passing game established?

FAX

Disclaimers: Sorry if repost. Sorry if incomplete post.

Damn. A good passing game with a so so QB and receivers? And an offensive coordinator that likes the 4 yd incompletion? You don't ask for much, do you? lol, wish I knew the answer to this one. I can see us improving some but with out a personnel change of some sort I don't see us lighting anybody up.

DeezNutz
09-22-2010, 01:49 PM
Who has the turd rag?

Chiefnj2
09-22-2010, 01:50 PM
Split back formation with Charles and McCluster.

2bikemike
09-22-2010, 01:50 PM
I haven't a clue what to do anymore. I used to think we could develop plays to White Cassels strengths but I am beginning to believe he doesn't have any.

So I guess the passing game is broke beyond repair. One of these days the Chiefs will have an offense and a defense at the same time. Just not in the near future.

Frosty
09-22-2010, 01:51 PM
You can't fix stupid.

Rausch
09-22-2010, 01:52 PM
Fear not, our new OC is all over fixing Casshole...

Deberg_1990
09-22-2010, 01:53 PM
Replace Cassel. You cant polish a turd.

FAX
09-22-2010, 01:53 PM
Okay ... how about this?

How about we start running a couple of screens? That will, at least, help stretch the defense sideline to sideline and bring up a safety or two. Surely Cassel can throw a screen pass.

Or maybe we start running some picks with multiple crossing routes withing Cassel's range ... say 7 yards downfield and pray for YAC?

FAX

Dicky McElephant
09-22-2010, 01:54 PM
Start targeting Bowe more.

johnny961
09-22-2010, 01:54 PM
I haven't a clue what to do anymore. I used to think we could develop plays to White Cassels strengths but I am beginning to believe he doesn't have any.

So I guess the passing game is broke beyond repair. One of these days the Chiefs will have an offense and a defense at the same time. Just not in the near future.

My thoughts exactly. I was on the Cassel bandwagon when we first got him but the more I see of him the more I'm thinking there's not much room for improvement there (on Cassel).

DMAC
09-22-2010, 01:55 PM
Give it to Charles?:shrug:

FAX
09-22-2010, 01:56 PM
Start targeting Bowe more.

Jump balls to Bowe is a good idea, too. Thanks, Mr. Pestilence.

Try and match him up with the teeniest tinyest corner and lob the friggin' thing up so he can make a play. Surely, Cassel can lob the friggin' thing up.

FAX

Sofa King
09-22-2010, 01:59 PM
Don't even put him in the game...

Direct snaps to Jones.

johnny961
09-22-2010, 01:59 PM
Okay ... how about this?

How about we start running a couple of screens? That will, at least, help stretch the defense sideline to sideline and bring up a safety or two. Surely Cassel can throw a screen pass.

Or maybe we start running some picks with multiple crossing routes withing Cassel's range ... say 7 yards downfield and pray for YAC?

FAX

Maybe. One other thing I noticed was that Cassel actually looked OK with the play action fakes the other day.

Chiefnj2
09-22-2010, 02:01 PM
Continue building on the second half of the Cleveland game.

go bowe
09-22-2010, 02:02 PM
Jump balls to Bowe is a good idea, too. Thanks, Mr. Pestilence.

Try and match him up with the teeniest tinyest corner and lob the friggin' thing up so he can make a play. Surely, Cassel can lob the friggin' thing up.

FAXyep, right into the freakin' goalpost...

Reerun_KC
09-22-2010, 02:03 PM
How about the lord and savior Brodie Croyle?

His 0-9 track record speaks for itself...

Slainte
09-22-2010, 02:03 PM
Jesus Christ! -- As soon as I improve the 12th man, I'll get right on fixing the WR's. Thanks for givin' me a fuckin' minute to breathe...

Carlota69
09-22-2010, 02:03 PM
Where's Huard when you need him???

FAX
09-22-2010, 02:07 PM
How about the lord and savior Brodie Croyle?

His 0-9 track record speaks for itself...

I shall not be baited into another powerful and compelling defense of Croyle, thank you very much.

Suffice it to say that Herm could flustrate anyone's career.

FAX

talastan
09-22-2010, 02:17 PM
I shall not be baited into another powerful and compelling defense of Croyle, thank you very much.
Suffice it to say that Herm could flustrate anyone's career.

FAX

Search your feelings Mr FAX you know them to be true!!

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:RhIy268CUaCLaM:http://www.psp-themes.net/data/media/4/darth%20vader%20theme.jpg&t=1

Extra Point
09-22-2010, 02:24 PM
McCluster as the slot, with the inside slant. Not many yards per throw, but YAC would make up for it.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2010, 02:24 PM
When you have a QB that can't throw deep or intermediate routes, you have to rely on short passes. Unfortunately, when you do this, it causes the defense to cheat up, thus negating his only non-horrible area of accuracy.

You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you run more, you'll just see 8 and 9 man fronts, making it nigh impossible to run. If you try PA, the QB isn't accurate enough to connect, thus meaning you'll still face those same fronts.

We lack the deep threat to cause the safeties to hang back, and even if we had one, said QB still couldn't hit him (see: Moss, Randy).

The defense doesn't have to blitz to get pressure, so the screen game isn't going to be particularly dominating, especially with so many defenders close to the LOS.

You can't fix the passing game unless you get a QB who can stretch the field vertically with the intermediate and deep ball, and we don't have an OL that is so overpowering that it can work against a 9 man front, nor should we really concern ourselves with getting one, as it would be far better to simply invest in a QB worth a damn.

Reerun_KC
09-22-2010, 02:26 PM
When you have a QB that can't throw deep or intermediate routes, you have to rely on short passes. Unfortunately, when you do this, it causes the defense to cheat up, thus negating his only non-horrible area of accuracy.

You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you run more, you'll just see 8 and 9 man fronts, making it nigh impossible to run. If you try PA, the QB isn't accurate enough to connect, thus meaning you'll still face those same fronts.

We lack the deep threat to cause the safeties to hang back, and even if we had one, said QB still couldn't hit him (see: Moss, Randy).

The defense doesn't have to blitz to get pressure, so the screen game isn't going to be particularly dominating, especially with so many defenders close to the LOS.

You can't fix the passing game unless you get a QB who can stretch the field vertically with the intermediate and deep ball, and we don't have an OL that is so overpowering that it can work against a 9 man front, nor should we really concern ourselves with getting one, as it would be far better to simply invest in a QB worth a damn.

You know, I agree with you 100%, But we also dont have WR's that can stretch the field, catch the ball or get seperation downfield.

So Cassel blows for sure and the shit we trott out there at WR is just as putrid...

the Talking Can
09-22-2010, 02:27 PM
you can't fix a problem when the solution - getting rid of the qb - is not an option

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2010, 02:32 PM
and the shit we trott out there at WR is just as putrid...

No, it's not.

People were, of course, overrating Chambers when he was playing for a contract last year, but Bowe is a very good receiver. If Damon Huard could get him the ball consistently, there is no reason why the 63 million dollar man shouldn't be able to.

There's no doubt that our receivers are not the same without Gonzalez, who is one of the greatest mismatches in NFL history, but Bowe is a YAC monster, and the C, in this case, is contact. We simply do not target him enough because our QB doesn't understand what open is in the NFL.

Someone was relaying a story about Peyton Manning in his rookie year. He said to Archie, "Dad, no one is open."

Cassel seems to think that you have to be High School open to get the ball. He has to commit to putting it in tight windows. However, given his accuracy, this is a dangerous proposition.

Rausch
09-22-2010, 02:33 PM
So Cassel blows for sure and the shit we trott out there at WR is just as putrid...

No, it's average.

Not poor, not probowl, just meh.

Look at Bowe's numbers with Thigpen, Croyle, and Casshole.

His first two years he averaged 1,000 yards a season.

Last year he had 589 and almost 1/2 as many receptions as his first two years.

His first two years under a retard and rookie HC, b/u at best QB's, and a horrid offensive line.

Yet his worst season was when Casshole took over...:hmmm:

the Talking Can
09-22-2010, 02:36 PM
I was told this draft was about getting Cassel playmakers.

I don't want to hear the bull shit excuse that he doesn't have options.

OnTheWarpath58
09-22-2010, 02:37 PM
Where's the punter from the Jags with the axe?

A tragic axe accident would fix the passing game.

Reerun_KC
09-22-2010, 02:38 PM
No, it's not.

People were, of course, overrating Chambers when he was playing for a contract last year, but Bowe is a very good receiver. If Damon Huard could get him the ball consistently, there is no reason why the 63 million dollar man shouldn't be able to.

There's no doubt that our receivers are not the same without Gonzalez, who is one of the greatest mismatches in NFL history, but Bowe is a YAC monster, and the C, in this case, is contact. We simply do not target him enough because our QB doesn't understand what open is in the NFL.

Someone was relaying a story about Peyton Manning in his rookie year. He said to Archie, "Dad, no one is open."

Cassel seems to think that you have to be High School open to get the ball. He has to commit to putting it in tight windows. However, given his accuracy, this is a dangerous proposition.

Fair enough, I dont have access to the game film like others do around here, but from what I can see on the broadcast is, our WR's are slow and cannot for the life of them get a step on anyone.

Yes Cassel needs to make the throws or at least at some point get some fucking confidence to make a throw. He is going to have to grow a pair...

I just cant see them investing anymore into Cassel after this year.

This is my only hope, I dont want to see Cassel in Chiefs gear next fall.

Reerun_KC
09-22-2010, 02:40 PM
I was told this draft was about getting Cassel playmakers.

I don't want to hear the bull shit excuse that he doesn't have options.

Hes got them now..

Shit if Weis would pull his head out of his fat ass and call some screens or something.. Cassel could be the Rich Gannon of the 5 yard pass.

Fuck at some point get the ball into the hands of the playmakers. Slants, screens, drag routes, swing passes.. Anything....

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2010, 02:40 PM
Where's the punter from the Jags with the axe?

A tragic axe accident would fix the passing game.

He was last with the Pats, so if Colquitt goes down, we have a good chance of signing him.

OnTheWarpath58
09-22-2010, 02:42 PM
He was last with the Pats, so if Colquitt goes down, we have a good chance of signing him.

LMAO

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2010, 02:44 PM
Screens don't work if the DL isn't concerned with killing the QB.

If I'm a DC and playing the Chiefs, what incentive do I have to blitz? I know the QB can't pick me apart across the middle of the field and it takes him a long time to make reads. The last thing I want to do is give him a single open hot route to go to, or open up the screen game by having my DE's pin their ears back trying to go outside and kill the QB every play.

If I'm gameplanning against the Chiefs, I just tell my guys to maintain discipline. No need to be aggressive with a QB who can't beat you with time.

OnTheWarpath58
09-22-2010, 02:47 PM
Screens don't work if the DL isn't concerned with killing the QB.

If I'm a DC and playing the Chiefs, what incentive do I have to blitz? I know the QB can't pick me apart across the middle of the field and it takes him a long time to make reads. The last thing I want to do is give him a single open hot route to go to, or open up the screen game by having my DE's pin their ears back trying to go outside and kill the QB every play.

If I'm gameplanning against the Chiefs, I just tell my guys to maintain discipline. No need to be aggressive with a QB who can't beat you with time.

Exactly.

There's no reason to rush more than 4. As long as Cassel holds the ball, chances are good you'll get to him anyway.

See: The only two sacks "given up" by the Chiefs this season.

FAX
09-22-2010, 02:51 PM
It isn't necessary to run the screen against a blitz. It might be beneficial (if you execute), but unnecessary.

Our rationale for running screens would simply be to try and stretch the defense sideline to sideline. And, if we're real lucky, force the linebackers and safeties to respect the edges. The idea, of course, is to open up the intermediate passing lanes (since we can't throw it any further) a little. Plus, if we could run a screen worth a damn, the fake screen could open things up even more.

FAX

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2010, 02:53 PM
The sad thing is that this was predicted months ago. As nice as it sounds to have a short passing attack, unless you have a threat of an intermediate passing game (which even the WCO has), you can't dink and dunk your way down the field. You end up facing way too many 3rd and 8s.

Good thing the Tampa 2 isn't en vogue anymore, because that scheme would fist fuck us.

suds79
09-22-2010, 02:54 PM
Cassel isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so replacing the quarterback seems to be out of the question, our TE is going to find himself triple covered in upcoming games, and we don't have Sippio anymore.

I know that ChiefsPlanet can do this ... what is necessary to get a damn passing game established?.

I think you already know the realistic answer to this question.

It'll be bad as long as Matt Cassel is our QB. Nothing we can do about it so it is what it is.

booger
09-22-2010, 02:55 PM
Split back formation with Charles and McCluster.

yep. they called this monday night with the saints and 9ers. 3-4 buster, Gruden called it. Split back/pro set with the option of both a screen right or left and brees was hitting Dave Thomas and Shockey when both ILB's went twards the screens.

Charles/DMC and Charle/Jones together more often would be nice to see.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2010, 02:56 PM
It isn't necessary to run the screen against a blitz. It might be beneficial (if you execute), but unnecessary.

Our rationale for running screens would simply be to try and stretch the defense sideline to sideline. And, if we're real lucky, force the linebackers and safeties to respect the edges. The idea, of course, is to open up the intermediate passing lanes (since we can't throw it any further) a little. Plus, if we could run a screen worth a damn, the fake screen could open things up even more.

FAX

The problem is that if you don't have DE's barreling down the field towards the QB, once the OL release their blocks it gives itself away. They can scrape down the field and blow up the play before it even develops.

On top of that, we already love to run the pump draw and the fake slant/screen to Castille, but neither has proven effective.

Hug it Out Dan
09-22-2010, 02:59 PM
No, it's not.

People were, of course, overrating Chambers when he was playing for a contract last year, but Bowe is a very good receiver. If Damon Huard could get him the ball consistently, there is no reason why the 63 million dollar man shouldn't be able to.

There's no doubt that our receivers are not the same without Gonzalez, who is one of the greatest mismatches in NFL history, but Bowe is a YAC monster, and the C, in this case, is contact. We simply do not target him enough because our QB doesn't understand what open is in the NFL.

Someone was relaying a story about Peyton Manning in his rookie year. He said to Archie, "Dad, no one is open."

Cassel seems to think that you have to be High School open to get the ball. He has to commit to putting it in tight windows. However, given his accuracy, this is a dangerous proposition.

Huard is better than Cassel.....unfortunately.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2010, 02:59 PM
yep. they called this monday night with the saints and 9ers. 3-4 buster, Gruden called it. Split back/pro set with the option of both a screen right or left and brees was hitting Dave Thomas and Shockey when both ILB's went twards the screens.

Charles/DMC and Charle/Jones together more often would be nice to see.

Unfortunately, this isn't nearly as effective when there are 8 in the box, because the safety is right there to take away the TE and the flats are smothered by the ILBs.

When you have to play a 2 deep shell to prevent against Devery Henderson and Robert Meachem, it's a hell of a lot easier to open up the short range passing game.

Rausch
09-22-2010, 02:59 PM
I was told this draft was about getting Cassel playmakers.

I don't want to hear the bull shit excuse that he doesn't have options.

Yeah, there's no Santa either...

OnTheWarpath58
09-22-2010, 03:00 PM
The sad thing is that this was predicted months ago. As nice as it sounds to have a short passing attack, unless you have a threat of an intermediate passing game (which even the WCO has), you can't dink and dunk your way down the field. You end up facing way too many 3rd and 8s.

Good thing the Tampa 2 isn't en vogue anymore, because that scheme would fist fuck us.

Yeah, none of us saw this coming.

But we're all fucking stupid, and just have an agenda.

Detoxing
09-22-2010, 03:01 PM
Fair enough, I dont have access to the game film like others do around here, but from what I can see on the broadcast is, our WR's are slow and cannot for the life of them get a step on anyone.

Yes Cassel needs to make the throws or at least at some point get some ****ing confidence to make a throw. He is going to have to grow a pair...

I just cant see them investing anymore into Cassel after this year.

This is my only hope, I dont want to see Cassel in Chiefs gear next fall.

Bowe, McCluster and Chambers can separate.

hell, if Mike fucking Williams of the seafags can get separation, then so can Bowe.

But what does it matter? Cassel can't throw it. Like Hamas said, he doesn't know what open is.

This offense needs a QB. Not WR's, not RB's or O-Line.

A Fucking QB can make this team a legit playoff contender.

HemiEd
09-22-2010, 03:03 PM
You can't fix stupid.

I said it last year, his eyes are way too close together, consequently he has no depth perception.

booger
09-22-2010, 03:03 PM
Unfortunately, this isn't nearly as effective when there are 8 in the box, because the safety is right there to take away the TE and the flats are smothered by the ILBs.

When you have to play a 2 deep shell to prevent against Devery Henderson and Robert Meachem, it's a hell of a lot easier to open up the short range passing game.

yea its really not going to matter until they start taking shots down the field. teams can go back to PS games and have very few examples of that. Horne was active last week, i was hoping to see them chuck up a couple too him for that reason alone.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2010, 03:06 PM
The PA pass only works when the D respects the run
The draw only works when the D respects the pass

Screens only work when the D is going downhill and the coverage scheme is predominantly man. Have your DEs contain and flood the flats with your corners and LBs playing the short zones and the play isn't going to go anywhere.

Valiant
09-22-2010, 03:08 PM
Were fucked with either qb.

Cassel - makes kcbroncohater look smart
Brodie - won't make it more then a few games.

There is no one to keep defenses honest in our passing attack. Well I guess we could start doing halfback passes.

booger
09-22-2010, 03:09 PM
a play with an option of say charles screen right and dmc screen left is too worthless of me to even bring up. Cassel would just get confused anyway. I only wish i was joking.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2010, 03:12 PM
We could just run sprint right option on every play.

Detoxing
09-22-2010, 03:12 PM
Brodie Croyle fakes injuries so he can get paid to hold a clipboard.

Fucker.

booger
09-22-2010, 03:16 PM
We could just run sprint right option on every play.

i've actually thought it would be cool to see charles run the option with DMC from the wildcat. except for the fact that the runner usually gets the snot knocked out of him regardless if he pitches or not.

Rausch
09-22-2010, 03:17 PM
Huard is better than Cassel.....unfortunately.

What's sad is this is true.

You can go by rating and numbers...Huard is better.

Go by wins...Huard is better.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2010, 03:22 PM
i've actually thought it would be cool to see charles run the option with DMC from the wildcat. except for the fact that the runner usually gets the snot knocked out of him regardless if he pitches or not.

Sprint right option is a passing play from the WCO. It's the play that Dwight Clark's "Catch" came on.

threebag02
09-22-2010, 03:23 PM
Okay ... how about this?

Surely Cassel can throw a screen pass.

FAX


cassel has a hard time spiking the ball. When he does it still burns 3 seconds of the clock...thank God for gravity.

tymania
09-22-2010, 03:25 PM
Replace Cassel. You cant polish a turd.

but you can... dont you watch mythbusters!?

booger
09-22-2010, 03:27 PM
Sprint right option is a passing play from the WCO. It's the play that Dwight Clark's "Catch" came on.

yes.

when option came up i just stated what i thought would be a cool play from the wildcat formation. it would suck to see charles or dmc get hurt though just to catch the D off guard since the option rarely gets ran in the NFL.

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-22-2010, 03:28 PM
Sub Cassel for a Juggs Machine in a wheel barrow operated by Jones while sending 4 out deep.

Problem...
Solved.

boogblaster
09-22-2010, 04:10 PM
simple crossing routes .. its all he can throw .. stack .. clear out the middle .. slip the back out .. throw the 7 yard bomb ....

SNR
09-22-2010, 04:30 PM
When you have a QB that can't throw deep or intermediate routes, you have to rely on short passes. Unfortunately, when you do this, it causes the defense to cheat up, thus negating his only non-horrible area of accuracy.

You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you run more, you'll just see 8 and 9 man fronts, making it nigh impossible to run. If you try PA, the QB isn't accurate enough to connect, thus meaning you'll still face those same fronts.

We lack the deep threat to cause the safeties to hang back, and even if we had one, said QB still couldn't hit him (see: Moss, Randy).

The defense doesn't have to blitz to get pressure, so the screen game isn't going to be particularly dominating, especially with so many defenders close to the LOS.

You can't fix the passing game unless you get a QB who can stretch the field vertically with the intermediate and deep ball, and we don't have an OL that is so overpowering that it can work against a 9 man front, nor should we really concern ourselves with getting one, as it would be far better to simply invest in a QB worth a damn.
How about the lord and savior Brodie Croyle?

His 0-9 track record speaks for itself...

Record or not, Reerun, the guy you mentioned is the best man on the roster to do what Hamas is talking about.

Rausch
09-22-2010, 04:32 PM
Record or not, Reerun, the guy you mentioned is the best man on the roster to do what Hamas is talking about.

/story...

Mr. Laz
09-22-2010, 04:57 PM
1. put in Brodie until he breaks ... at least we would see if the offense improves or not

2. got to open it up whether we have the talent or not. If the defense doesn't fear a deep pass then it clogs everything else up.

3. Cassel seems to like the hurry-up offense the most so do it most of the game.

4. crossing routes,crossing routes crossing routes ...... if you can't go deep you have to pick the hell out of the defenders and create some confusion.

5. screen passes .. we don't use nearly enough of them and don't have a wide enough variety. The Oline must practice selling the screens to help them work

6. Charles in the passing game see #5

BossChief
09-22-2010, 05:29 PM
Here is a post of mine from a couple days ago...Matt Cassel is the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about (except on CP, we love it)

You know what we should do to help Cassel?

Do exactly what Chan Gailey did with Thigpen and "red ball" when he designed about 30 or so plays to run for long stretches worth of no huddle. Every player had the list of plays on their arm and the playcall was made by number.

Cassel plays the best when we are in the no huddle and I think this could be a way of helping him "not think so much" and get back to just playing football.

We have the type of guys on offense to make it work because of their versatility. JMO

Honestly, I think it could help.

googlegoogle
09-22-2010, 05:49 PM
Wide receivers needed.

Hug it Out Dan
09-22-2010, 05:53 PM
1. put in Brodie until he breaks ... at least we would see if the offense improves or not

2. got to open it up whether we have the talent or not. If the defense doesn't fear a deep pass then it clogs everything else up.

3. Cassel seems to like the hurry-up offense the most so do it most of the game.

4. crossing routes,crossing routes crossing routes ...... if you can't go deep you have to pick the hell out of the defenders and create some confusion.

5. screen passes .. we don't use nearly enough of them and don't have a wide enough variety. The Oline must practice selling the screens to help them work

6. Charles in the passing game see #5

this times eleventy billion.

MahiMike
09-22-2010, 05:58 PM
I dunno. I re-watched the game yesterday and saw some pretty good passes coming from Cassel. He had plenty of zip and threaded the needle a couple times. On many of the incompletions, the receiver just wasn't open. He had 2 especially good throws to Chambers and Bowe. Why all the fuss?

Rausch
09-22-2010, 05:59 PM
Here is a post of mine from a couple days ago...

Unfortunately we fired the inventive guy that made marginal-at-best talents look productive.

Three7s
09-22-2010, 06:03 PM
I dunno. I re-watched the game yesterday and saw some pretty good passes coming from Cassel. He had plenty of zip and threaded the needle a couple times. On many of the incompletions, the receiver just wasn't open. He had 2 especially good throws to Chambers and Bowe. Why all the fuss?
Because Cassel does that all the time. He never plays a complete game and misses wide open receivers all the time, thanks to not going through his progressions.

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-22-2010, 06:06 PM
Quarterback needed.

Yep, couldn't agree more.

BossChief
09-22-2010, 06:11 PM
Unfortunately we fired the inventive guy that made marginal-at-best talents look productive.
I dont buy that.

Weis did exactly that pretty much everywhere he has been.

He is still learning these players and their strengths at this time and i think the more this season roles on, the more we will see us implement more and more no huddle and more specifically play action passes. Sucks to be actually behind where we were with Thigpen and his plate of chicken salad.

Marcellus
09-22-2010, 06:26 PM
I know I am going to get killed for this but I think the loss of TG is understated on the effect it has had on Bowe's production and our current problems.

Bowe had good years playing with crappy QB's and TG taking all of the attention in the middle of the field.

TG is also the type of middle of the field intermediate threat that would open other options underneath and on the edges and he was dynamic enough he could catch Croyle's crappy passes to keep them honest.

Not saying that is HOW you want to ideally build an offense so don't give me all the TE is overrated BS, just saying TG did help get others open.

Hopefully Moaeki can develop into 75% of that.

Marcellus
09-22-2010, 06:28 PM
Unfortunately we fired the inventive guy that made marginal-at-best talents look productive.

You mean the guy who is a failure and is 0-2 in Buffalo? Who has a worse pass offense than KC?

At least he is willing to change QB's.

Rain Man
09-22-2010, 06:37 PM
1. put in Brodie until he breaks ... at least we would see if the offense improves or not

2. got to open it up whether we have the talent or not. If the defense doesn't fear a deep pass then it clogs everything else up.

3. Cassel seems to like the hurry-up offense the most so do it most of the game.

4. crossing routes,crossing routes crossing routes ...... if you can't go deep you have to pick the hell out of the defenders and create some confusion.

5. screen passes .. we don't use nearly enough of them and don't have a wide enough variety. The Oline must practice selling the screens to help them work

6. Charles in the passing game see #5


This sounds like a good plan.

orange
09-22-2010, 06:42 PM
I know that ChiefsPlanet can do this ... what is necessary to get a damn passing game established?



Introducing Soccer Relegation to American Football


Maybe the only way to make the Oakland Raiders' season interesting past the sixth week would be to force them - and every other wretched team - to play for the right to stay in the National Football League.

http://kotaku.com/5548274/introducing-soccer-relegation-to-american-football---in-a-video-game

MadMax
09-22-2010, 07:07 PM
The only way I can see to fix it is to get a different QB :)

crossbow
09-22-2010, 07:10 PM
I would bring in a noodle arm QB and give him a 60 million dollar contract. Then bench the most productive tailback in the league (because his 50 yard TD runs aren't coming from a guy that I drafted so he sucks). Then trade some other players and draft picks for guys that get cut later becuase they are 40 years old and have no skills left.

So the solution is to call 30 yard pass plays all day so that Matt gets slammed into turf 30 times a game. He won't be able walk after two games. Problem solved. Pioli can cut him using the injury excuse and then go out and draft an athlete suitable for the position.

Rausch
09-22-2010, 07:20 PM
I dont buy that.

Weis did exactly that pretty much everywhere he has been.

That's great, and to be completely honest I think Weis is every bit the OC and more than Gailey.

But dumping Gailey last year was still really fucking stupid. When you factor in Haley's play calling it was REALLY FUCKING stupid.

If you want to trade Gailey for Weis I'll agree that's an upgrade but what we did was have a pissing match where everyone lost last year...

BossChief
09-22-2010, 07:21 PM
That's great, and to be completely honest I think Weis is every bit the OC and more than Gailey.

But dumping Gailey last year was still really fucking stupid. When you factor in Haley's play calling it was REALLY FUCKING stupid.

If you want to trade Gailey for Weis I'll agree that's an upgrade but what we did was have a pissing match where everyone lost last year...
totally agree

Mr. Laz
09-22-2010, 07:31 PM
The only way I can see to fix it is to get a different QB :)

I would bring in a noodle arm QB and give him a 60 million dollar contract. Then bench the most productive tailback in the league (because his 50 yard TD runs aren't coming from a guy that I drafted so he sucks). Then trade some other players and draft picks for guys that get cut later becuase they are 40 years old and have no skills left.

So the solution is to call 30 yard pass plays all day so that Matt gets slammed into turf 30 times a game. He won't be able walk after two games. Problem solved. Pioli can cut him using the injury excuse and then go out and draft an athlete suitable for the position.
wow, which post is the more worthless pos

you make the call

bevischief
09-22-2010, 07:33 PM
The receivers need go carts to get separation...

MadMax
09-22-2010, 07:34 PM
wow, which post is the more worthless pos

you make the call



Yours wins hands down...

Mr. Laz
09-22-2010, 07:37 PM
The receivers need go carts to get separation...
that is supposed to be what DMC is all about

all i've heard since he was drafted was about how he was polished type receiver would had such great speed/quickness that he could get separation.


still waiting...

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-22-2010, 07:39 PM
Yours wins hands down...

ROFL

Mr. Laz
09-22-2010, 07:41 PM
Yours wins hands down...

ya ... i can see how you would be confused
The only way I can see to fix it is to get a different QB :)1. put in Brodie until he breaks ... at least we would see if the offense improves or not

2. got to open it up whether we have the talent or not. If the defense doesn't fear a deep pass then it clogs everything else up.

3. Cassel seems to like the hurry-up offense the most so do it most of the game.

4. crossing routes,crossing routes crossing routes ...... if you can't go deep you have to pick the hell out of the defenders and create some confusion.

5. screen passes .. we don't use nearly enough of them and don't have a wide enough variety. The Oline must practice selling the screens to help them work

6. Charles in the passing game see #5

yep... the two posts are almost identical in their substance

Mr. Laz
09-22-2010, 07:43 PM
Yours wins hands down...

ROFL
stupid fucks of a feather and all that ...


no surprise here

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-22-2010, 08:00 PM
stupid fucks of a feather and all that ...


no surprise here

Calm your vagina.

MadMax
09-22-2010, 08:25 PM
stupid ****s of a feather and all that ...


no surprise here



Angry lil boy aren't ya?

MadMax
09-22-2010, 08:34 PM
stupid ****s of a feather and all that ...


no surprise here



You are a funny little turd, I've seen you get into with more peeps than I could ever count. Jeez just because you disagree with me you don't have to be a dick. I guess life has treated you so poorly you feel the need to lash out...You go girl!! :)

milkman
09-22-2010, 09:50 PM
I dunno. I re-watched the game yesterday and saw some pretty good passes coming from Cassel. He had plenty of zip and threaded the needle a couple times. On many of the incompletions, the receiver just wasn't open. He had 2 especially good throws to Chambers and Bowe. Why all the fuss?

When Cassel is decisive, and confident in his decision, he does have some zip.

The problem is, he lacks the confidence to be diecisive except when the receiver is virtually all alone.

milkman
09-22-2010, 09:53 PM
that is supposed to be what DMC is all about

all i've heard since he was drafted was about how he was polished type receiver would had such great speed/quickness that he could get separation.


still waiting...

Hamas has laid it out.

Simply stated, there isn't anyone on defense playing deep, so there's a lot of clutter in the short routes.

These recievers can't get separation because it's like running an obstacle course for them.

Just too many bodies sitting on the underneath routes.

BossChief
09-22-2010, 09:54 PM
When Cassel is decisive, and confident in his decision, he does have some zip.

The problem is, he lacks the confidence to be diecisive except when the receiver is virtually all alone.

There are instances where this isn't always true (the TD to Bowe at the end of regulation of the Dallas game comes to mind), but the horrible play that usually follows makes us forget the good ones.

MadMax
09-22-2010, 10:08 PM
ya ... i can see how you would be confused


yep... the two posts are almost identical in their substance




And you are so awesome in your analysis of the Chiefs problems.. OK Skippy. WTFE! Whatta douchebag.

redrob
09-22-2010, 10:29 PM
Ok. How did Cassel throw for 3600 yds and 21 td's in 08 with the Pats? I'm not saying he's great, but he has done it before. So the question is why not now? And he still only managed 11 picks. It seems to me when he has good receivers he has confidence to get the ball to them. I think he has no confidence in any of these guys. I really liked Bowe early on, but he's gotta step it up and prove he's worthy.

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-22-2010, 10:31 PM
Ok. How did Cassel throw for 3600 yds and 21 td's in 08 with the Pats? I'm not saying he's great, but he has done it before. So the question is why not now? And he still only managed 11 picks. It seems to me when he has good receivers he has confidence to get the ball to them. I think he has no confidence in any of these guys. I really liked Bowe early on, but he's gotta step it up and prove he's worthy.

Sunshine

+

Dogs Ass

=

Cassel 08.

Nightfyre
09-22-2010, 10:46 PM
The answer seems simple: Lose out the rest of this season and draft Andrew Luck, and whatever WR talent drops to the second round. It wouldn't hurt to identify and trade up for a high value pass-rusher either, but that's more defense related.

BossChief
09-22-2010, 10:49 PM
Ok. How did Cassel throw for 3600 yds and 21 td's in 08 with the Pats? I'm not saying he's great, but he has done it before. So the question is why not now? And he still only managed 11 picks. It seems to me when he has good receivers he has confidence to get the ball to them. I think he has no confidence in any of these guys. I really liked Bowe early on, but he's gotta step it up and prove he's worthy.

Thigpen threw 18 touchdown passes (and 12 picks) for us that year with far less talent to work with. 2994 yards (rushing and passing) in 11 games.

In 2008, Bowe was the #10 receiver in the NFL (in receptions) with 86 catches and 1022 yards and 7 tds. He was the second option most of the time too, Gonzales had 96 catches that year for 1058 yards. That was the #2 receiving tandem in the league behind Fitz and Boldin.

Put Thigpen in that Ferrari offense (NE 08) and one would have to think he would have surpassed those numbers by a mile.

Cassel sucks man.

johnny961
09-23-2010, 12:24 AM
When Cassel is decisive, and confident in his decision, he does have some zip.

The problem is, he lacks the confidence to be diecisive except when the receiver is virtually all alone.

Very well put. I also think alot of his problems are in his mental game with confidence and decision making. Thats why I think part of the time he looks OK and 2 minutes later looks like crap is lapses in his mental game.

johnny961
09-23-2010, 12:26 AM
That's great, and to be completely honest I think Weis is every bit the OC and more than Gailey.

But dumping Gailey last year was still really ****ing stupid. When you factor in Haley's play calling it was REALLY ****ING stupid.

If you want to trade Gailey for Weis I'll agree that's an upgrade but what we did was have a pissing match where everyone lost last year...

X3

SNR
09-23-2010, 01:27 AM
Thigpen threw 18 touchdown passes (and 12 picks) for us that year with far less talent to work with. 2994 yards (rushing and passing) in 11 games.

In 2008, Bowe was the #10 receiver in the NFL (in receptions) with 86 catches and 1022 yards and 7 tds. He was the second option most of the time too, Gonzales had 96 catches that year for 1058 yards. That was the #2 receiving tandem in the league behind Fitz and Boldin.

Put Thigpen in that Ferrari offense (NE 08) and one would have to think he would have surpassed those numbers by a mile.

Cassel sucks man.Yahtzee!

Wallcrawler
09-23-2010, 02:47 AM
Ok. How did Cassel throw for 3600 yds and 21 td's in 08 with the Pats? I'm not saying he's great, but he has done it before.


He inherited the offense of a team that went 18-1.

johnny961
09-23-2010, 02:55 AM
Ok. How did Cassel throw for 3600 yds and 21 td's in 08 with the Pats? I'm not saying he's great, but he has done it before. So the question is why not now? And he still only managed 11 picks. It seems to me when he has good receivers he has confidence to get the ball to them. I think he has no confidence in any of these guys. I really liked Bowe early on, but he's gotta step it up and prove he's worthy.

From looking at his stats, even during what was a good year for him he still had a high sack total. His pocket awareness sucked and he had a penchant for hanging onto the football for too long even then. Then when he came here that first year with our crappy o-line coupled with his penchant to hang on too long to the ball anyway he really got pounded which I think affected the mental aspect of his game even more. I could be dead wrong but I think most of Cassel's issues are mental breakdowns as opposed to physical ability. And if a player doesn't have the mental toughness to overcome these issues they're done. I've been bashing him like everybody else lately but with all seriousness hope coaching can help him overcome some of these issues. But I'm not going to hold my breath on it.

KCJohnny
09-23-2010, 05:43 AM
Unfortunately we fired the inventive guy that made marginal-at-best talents look productive.

I totally agree, Brad. Gailey would have maximized Cassel's potential. Thigpen's 2008 stat line with a 2-14 team is almost identical with Cassel's stat line with an 18-1 ('07) team that set a record for TD passes. And guess what? Thigpen was $62.5 mil cheaper.

And didn't Charlie Weiss invent Tom Brady? :huh:

Seems like Crennel is doing much more with much less. I really don't think the knock is on the KC WRs. Bowe and Chambers are legit 1,000 yd receivers.

Weiss & Co. need to figure out what Cassel can do and build some plays around that. But let me jump on the start-Brodie-now band wagon.

Marcellus
09-23-2010, 07:01 AM
Thigpen threw 18 touchdown passes (and 12 picks) for us that year with far less talent to work with. 2994 yards (rushing and passing) in 11 games.

In 2008, Bowe was the #10 receiver in the NFL (in receptions) with 86 catches and 1022 yards and 7 tds. He was the second option most of the time too, Gonzales had 96 catches that year for 1058 yards. That was the #2 receiving tandem in the league behind Fitz and Boldin.

Put Thigpen in that Ferrari offense (NE 08) and one would have to think he would have surpassed those numbers by a mile.

Cassel sucks man.

I would argue that Bowe isn't a #1 type receiver and the loss of TG has has as much of an effect as Cassel sucking.

TG is the only reason Huard and company put up decent numbers to Bowe.

Tribal Warfare
09-23-2010, 07:12 AM
Start targeting Bowe more.

I'm surprised you didn't use your theme for the 2010 season "Clausen at #5" in this thread

KCJohnny
09-23-2010, 07:35 AM
Thigpen threw 18 touchdown passes (and 12 picks) for us that year with far less talent to work with. 2994 yards (rushing and passing) in 11 games.

In 2008, Bowe was the #10 receiver in the NFL (in receptions) with 86 catches and 1022 yards and 7 tds. He was the second option most of the time too, Gonzales had 96 catches that year for 1058 yards. That was the #2 receiving tandem in the league behind Fitz and Boldin.

Put Thigpen in that Ferrari offense (NE 08) and one would have to think he would have surpassed those numbers by a mile.

Cassel sucks man.

Tough to argue against BossChief's case. Don't forget to mention that there would be a $62 million savings with Thigpen over Cassel. Hmmm. Seems like some nice weapons could have been obtained for that dough.