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View Full Version : Chiefs Ok, how about Charlie Weis?


jspchief
09-23-2010, 06:54 AM
Let's switch things up. Obviously we are 2-0 and are extremely unhappy about it.

How much of the responsibility does Weis shoulder?

Weis has never been known for the running game. In NE, the running game never appeared to be a focus of the offense. The only time in Weis' 8 years as O-Coord that his offense has been top 10 in rushing was 7th in '04 with the addition of Dillon to the Pats. His feature backs historically have pretty low attempts per game compared to the league.

Does he prefer the 4 yards and a cloud of dust type of RB? Does his Parcells upbringing make him long for Curtis Martin with a sprinkling of Kevin Faulk?

All the preseason talk was that Cassel couldn't throw downfield. First play of the regular season, they call a deep pass, as if to prove us all wrong. of course, the throw was off target to a guy that was covered. Since then, it seems the entire focus of the offense has been getting Cassel into a rythm. Getting him to produce.

At what point does Weis look at what this offense did the last half of 2009 and build around that?

big nasty kcnut
09-23-2010, 07:01 AM
Fuck that we are doing great we're 2-0 quit your bitching.

Mr. Arrowhead
09-23-2010, 07:09 AM
Jamaal needs more carries

jspchief
09-23-2010, 07:10 AM
**** that we are doing great we're 2-0 quit your bitching.In 2003 the Chiefs were 9-0. That doesn't mean they didn't have any weaknesses.

Hog Farmer
09-23-2010, 07:13 AM
Well, I think Haley knows what he has with the running game as well as Weis. We're only two games into a long season. Charles will get his carries and we'll see McCluster explode for some big plays shortly. We're all too impatient.

Oh , and BTW. Cassel sucks.

Bane
09-23-2010, 07:18 AM
:spock:

Chiefnj2
09-23-2010, 07:18 AM
It's way too early to tell.

I do think that the team has decided they are going to play low risk football.

The first game was hard to judge because of the weather and the fact they jumped out to a lead.

I think he tried to get Cassel into the flow of a short passing game last week, but it fell flat early because of (a) the INTs, (b) Cassel was not on the same page with McCluster.

I was glad to see improvement in the 2nd half of the Cleveland game, which is all you can ask for each week with Cassel - slowly improve and move the ball.

blaise
09-23-2010, 07:20 AM
Wait, I think you mean how would Charlie Weis do as the featured running back, right?

jspchief
09-23-2010, 07:21 AM
Wait, I think you mean how would Charlie Weis do as the featured running back, right?Yes. If Fridge can do it....

Reerun_KC
09-23-2010, 07:22 AM
I went on a Draftabulator type rant on him during the game last week.... I felt he was doing a shitty job with using his personel and play calling as a whole...

There were too many WTF what where you thinking moments watching certian short yardage plays during that game...

He needs to get this team into some sort of rythmn... Yes We KNOW CASSEL SUCKS, but its Weis's job to get the most of these players, whether they are limited or not. And right now, he isnt doing a very good job at it.

jspchief
09-23-2010, 07:28 AM
I went on a Draftabulator type rant on him during the game last week.... I felt he was doing a shitty job with using his personel and play calling as a whole...

There were too many WTF what where you thinking moments watching certian short yardage plays during that game...

He needs to get this team into some sort of rythmn... Yes We KNOW CASSEL SUCKS, but its Weis's job to get the most of these players, whether they are limited or not. And right now, he isnt doing a very good job at it.I feel like the play calling has been pretty bad for both games. His calls don't seem to take into account who/what he has for talent at all.

King_Chief_Fan
09-23-2010, 07:34 AM
I think the performance of the QB dictates what he can do.

When was the last time he had to coordinate an offense with a Cassel type?

Give him a few more weeks to see if the flow changes and things improve. If they don't, he should come ask some of you experts on what to do.

Chiefnj2
09-23-2010, 07:37 AM
When was the last time he had to coordinate an offense with a Cassel type?



His entire career at Notre Dame?

King_Chief_Fan
09-23-2010, 07:41 AM
His entire career at Notre Dame?

then you haven't talked to the Claussen fanatics have you?

Reerun_KC
09-23-2010, 07:43 AM
I feel like the play calling has been pretty bad for both games. His calls don't seem to take into account who/what he has for talent at all.

Or who is in what package for that particular play. It seemed like in the Cleveland game that there where plays where JC should of been in and TJ was carrying the ball.. vica versa....


It just doesnt seem like they can get into any rythmn with the personel on the field and the calls come down from the booth....

Tribal Warfare
09-23-2010, 07:43 AM
Let's switch things up. Obviously we are 2-0 and are extremely unhappy about it.

How much of the responsibility does Weis shoulder?

Weis has never been known for the running game. In NE, the running game never appeared to be a focus of the offense. The only time in Weis' 8 years as O-Coord that his offense has been top 10 in rushing was 7th in '04 with the addition of Dillon to the Pats. His feature backs historically have pretty low attempts per game compared to the league.

Does he prefer the 4 yards and a cloud of dust type of RB? Does his Parcells upbringing make him long for Curtis Martin with a sprinkling of Kevin Faulk?

All the preseason talk was that Cassel couldn't throw downfield. First play of the regular season, they call a deep pass, as if to prove us all wrong. of course, the throw was off target to a guy that was covered. Since then, it seems the entire focus of the offense has been getting Cassel into a rythm. Getting him to produce.

At what point does Weis look at what this offense did the last half of 2009 and build around that?


Yep, trying to get his confidence up and trying to make the defense believe that he's a threat passing the ball. After that KC attempts to setup the run.

Coogs
09-23-2010, 07:48 AM
I feel like the play calling has been pretty bad for both games. His calls don't seem to take into account who/what he has for talent at all.

I'm on the other side of the fence from this one. I think he tried to open up the playbook in Cleveland in the first half, our QB just did not get it done in that half. Even the throw to McCluster in the flat was way overthrown, regardless if McCluster did not turn upfield like he was supposed to. In the second half, I thought the throws we had to have were well called plays that led to FG's that won the game.

And I have no proble with the playcalling in the first game either. It may have been frustrating in the 2nd half watching 3-and-out after 3-and-out, but conservative was the order of the day in that scenario.

KCUnited
09-23-2010, 07:54 AM
Charlie manages 2 backs everyday of his life.

Fish
09-23-2010, 08:25 AM
I'm on the other side of the fence from this one. I think he tried to open up the playbook in Cleveland in the first half, our QB just did not get it done in that half. Even the throw to McCluster in the flat was way overthrown, regardless if McCluster did not turn upfield like he was supposed to. In the second half, I thought the throws we had to have were well called plays that led to FG's that won the game.

And I have no proble with the playcalling in the first game either. It may have been frustrating in the 2nd half watching 3-and-out after 3-and-out, but conservative was the order of the day in that scenario.

This is where I'm sitting too. I think Weis is cautiously testing the limits of the offense. If I had to guess, I'd say that he knows what he has in Charles. But he's still trying to figure out the roles of some other guys. I get the feeling that he's tinkering, while at the same time doing everything to prevent turnovers at all cost.

And I'd have to say I've been relatively pleased with the offensive game calling so far. Sure I'd like to see Charles get more touches. But overall, Weis is playing smart ball and not letting the offense put us in a hole. He's always been pretty adaptive. I think the offense will be evolving all season.

Demonpenz
09-23-2010, 08:32 AM
Charlie manages 2 backs everyday of his life.

win

-King-
09-23-2010, 08:35 AM
This is where I'm sitting too. I think Weis is cautiously testing the limits of the offense. If I had to guess, I'd say that he knows what he has in Charles. But he's still trying to figure out the roles of some other guys. I get the feeling that he's tinkering, while at the same time doing everything to prevent turnovers at all cost.

And I'd have to say I've been relatively pleased with the offensive game calling so far. Sure I'd like to see Charles get more touches. But overall, Weis is playing smart ball and not letting the offense put us in a hole. He's always been pretty adaptive. I think the offense will be evolving all season.

Isn't that what preseason is for? I don't want a coach who's going to use the regular season for experimenting.
Posted via Mobile Device

Brock
09-23-2010, 08:36 AM
Isn't that what preseason is for? I don't want a coach who's going to use the regular season for experimenting.
Posted via Mobile Device

No, it's not. Yes, you do.

Coogs
09-23-2010, 08:39 AM
This is where I'm sitting too. I think Weis is cautiously testing the limits of the offense. If I had to guess, I'd say that he knows what he has in Charles. But he's still trying to figure out the roles of some other guys. I get the feeling that he's tinkering, while at the same time doing everything to prevent turnovers at all cost.

And I'd have to say I've been relatively pleased with the offensive game calling so far. Sure I'd like to see Charles get more touches. But overall, Weis is playing smart ball and not letting the offense put us in a hole. He's always been pretty adaptive. I think the offense will be evolving all season.

I know in the last half against Cleveland when we started getting into FG range down 14-10 and then 14-13, that while I would have prefered a TD, I was really hoping we didn't screw it up and blow the chance at even getting the FG. I was very happy with both FG's to get the lead.

And like it or not, te style of ball we are playing right now is IMO the style of ball we are going to have to play at Indy, Houston, and at San Diego to have a chance to win those games. We just need to not get behind like we did at Cleveland.

Reerun_KC
09-23-2010, 08:41 AM
No, it's not. Yes, you do.

Then cut the meaningless preseason in half and give us more games that count...

Brock
09-23-2010, 08:43 AM
Then cut the meaningless preseason in half and give us more games that count...

autoreply :facepalm: /autoreply

SenselessChiefsFan
09-23-2010, 08:44 AM
Let's switch things up. Obviously we are 2-0 and are extremely unhappy about it.

How much of the responsibility does Weis shoulder?

Weis has never been known for the running game. In NE, the running game never appeared to be a focus of the offense. The only time in Weis' 8 years as O-Coord that his offense has been top 10 in rushing was 7th in '04 with the addition of Dillon to the Pats. His feature backs historically have pretty low attempts per game compared to the league.

Does he prefer the 4 yards and a cloud of dust type of RB? Does his Parcells upbringing make him long for Curtis Martin with a sprinkling of Kevin Faulk?

All the preseason talk was that Cassel couldn't throw downfield. First play of the regular season, they call a deep pass, as if to prove us all wrong. of course, the throw was off target to a guy that was covered. Since then, it seems the entire focus of the offense has been getting Cassel into a rythm. Getting him to produce.

At what point does Weis look at what this offense did the last half of 2009 and build around that?


The first play of the season, Cassel was hit as he threw and Bowe still had a chance at the ball.

Reerun_KC
09-23-2010, 08:44 AM
autoreply :facepalm: /autoreply

:LOL:

JD10367
09-23-2010, 08:49 AM
Charlie Weis looked great at New England when he had Tom Brady and other talent.

Charlie Weis: the Matt Cassel of NFL Co-ordinators.

Nzoner
09-23-2010, 08:54 AM
And like it or not, te style of ball we are playing right now is IMO the style of ball we are going to have to play at Indy, Houston, and at San Diego to have a chance to win those games. We just need to not get behind like we did at Cleveland.

IMO,the style of ball the team is playing right now is perfect for the games they've played but to think they're not going to have to crank it up on the road against Indy and Houston is a pipe dream and I think the coaches are well aware of this.

I'm going to be patient and not bitch about Charles' carries and the like and see what happens but if anyone even thinks for a minute the Chiefs aren't going to find themselves behind at Indy and Houston they're in for a disappointment.

I know the coaches and players are always saying we're just preparing for the next game and not looking ahead but I call BS on that,I think Weiss is probably making a little time to look ahead for those two games after the bye knowing he's going to have to get this offense in gear and I'm not so sure that's when we,as fans,see what we've been hoping for from Charles.

Just my .02

-King-
09-23-2010, 08:54 AM
Charlie Weis looked great at New England when he had Tom Brady and other talent.

Charlie Weis: the Matt Cassel of NFL Co-ordinators.

What other talent? Id take our WR corp over NEs and our RBs over NEs.

Coogs
09-23-2010, 09:22 AM
IMO,the style of ball the team is playing right now is perfect for the games they've played but to think they're not going to have to crank it up on the road against Indy and Houston is a pipe dream and I think the coaches are well aware of this.

I'm going to be patient and not bitch about Charles' carries and the like and see what happens but if anyone even thinks for a minute the Chiefs aren't going to find themselves behind at Indy and Houston they're in for a disappointment.


My $.02. We get killed in a shootout with any of those three teams. We got behind San Diego, but were fortunate to seize the lead very quickly by three big plays.

We may get behind those other two games as well. But if we keep it like Cleveland when behind... just staying in range of retaking the lead... we have a chance. If we get behind by a couple of scores, and have to rely on Cassel to bring us back, it could get ugly. And not an ugly win.

Fritz88
09-23-2010, 09:32 AM
stop the fucking insanity, please.
Posted via Mobile Device

B_Ambuehl
09-23-2010, 09:36 AM
When was the last (or first) time anyone from the Pats panned out when they left?

McDouche - bust

Cassell - bust

Pioli - bust

Crennell - bust (as head coach)


Why would you expect anything different from Weis? He already busted at Notre Dame

Sully
09-23-2010, 09:42 AM
I've got a long reply to this, but don't want to type it all out on my iPhone.
Weis is/has been a pass first guy. Short passes, get guys in space, and let them play. We knew that when we got him. He's also handcuffed a little.
That said, I think he's doing a great job.
Hopefully I'll have a chance to elaborate later with an actual keyboard.

Sully
09-23-2010, 09:44 AM
When was the last (or first) time anyone from the Pats panned out when they left?

McDouche - bust

Cassell - bust

Pioli - bust

Crennell - bust (as head coach)


Why would you expect anything different from Weis? He already busted at Notre Dame

This is silly.

Chiefnj2
09-23-2010, 09:51 AM
When was the last (or first) time anyone from the Pats panned out when they left?

McDouche - bust

Cassell - bust

Pioli - bust

Crennell - bust (as head coach)


Why would you expect anything different from Weis? He already busted at Notre Dame

Good point. Whereas players from KC go on to great things:

Tynes - Super Bowl ring.
Fujita - Super Bowl ring.
Kawika Mitchell - Super Bowl ring.
Pollard - doing well in Texas.

LaChapelle
09-23-2010, 10:48 AM
Let's see how he calls plays from behind
If memory serves we only played from behind until the ball was kicked to McCluster
:2 minutes?

Coogs
09-23-2010, 10:52 AM
Let's see how he calls plays from behind
If memory serves we only played from behind until the ball was kicked to McCluster
:2 minutes?

San Diego: Charles for 56 yards and the tie.

Cleveland: Much of the game, but always within striking distance so fairly conservative.

B_Ambuehl
09-23-2010, 10:55 AM
I am very surprised he hasn't gotten McCluster more involved in the short screen and misdirection game.

Actually it appears like he's running the exact offense Haley ran last year with nothing added.

That sprint draw is annoying as fuck.

If nothing else here's him and Haley should go back over the lsat 3 years of Chargers offensive film and watch how Norv uses sproles.

LaChapelle
09-23-2010, 10:56 AM
I should have said down a TD -my bad

Pestilence
09-23-2010, 10:57 AM
His entire career at Notre Dame?

You're a fucking idiot.

Coogs
09-23-2010, 10:58 AM
I should have said down a TD -my bd

That would be San Diego. Charles tied it very quickly. Glad we didn't have to find out without that run, 'cause up to that point things were not looking good either side of the ball.

LaChapelle
09-23-2010, 11:00 AM
I was thinking they were only down no more than 4 against Cleveland
my memory is not always reliable

Chiefnj2
09-23-2010, 11:02 AM
You're a ****ing idiot.

You're an oversensitive vulva.

Did he develop Quinn at Notre Dame? How did Quinn do in the NFL? Same as Cassel.

Coogs
09-23-2010, 11:05 AM
I was thinking they were only down no more than 4 against Cleveland
my memory is not always reliable

That is correct. 4 (twice) to Cleveland. 7 early to San Diego.

Pestilence
09-23-2010, 11:07 AM
You're an oversensitive vulva.

Did he develop Quinn at Notre Dame? How did Quinn do in the NFL? Same as Cassel.

That wasn't the fucking question. The question was....

When was the last time he had to coordinate an offense with a Cassel type?

Neither Quinn nor Clausen were a "Cassel" type.

Rausch
09-23-2010, 11:13 AM
Wait...aren't we 5th in the league in rushing?

Chiefnj2
09-23-2010, 11:23 AM
That wasn't the ****ing question. The question was....



Neither Quinn nor Clausen were a "Cassel" type.

Really?

Quinn's arm strength, lack of a deep ball and accuracy have been questioned as much as Cassel's.

Last year:
Cassel - 55% completion percentage, 1:1 TD to INT ratio, 5.9 y/a, 69 QB rating
Quinn - 53% completion percentage, 8TD to 7 INT, 5.2 y/a, 67 QB rating

But I'm sure you are right, they are nothing alike.

johnny961
09-23-2010, 11:52 AM
I haven't agreed much with Weis playcalling but give him a pass as of now. He hasn't coached here long enough to give a fair assessment IMO.

Pestilence
09-23-2010, 11:55 AM
Really?

Quinn's arm strength, lack of a deep ball and accuracy have been questioned as much as Cassel's.

Last year:
Cassel - 55% completion percentage, 1:1 TD to INT ratio, 5.9 y/a, 69 QB rating
Quinn - 53% completion percentage, 8TD to 7 INT, 5.2 y/a, 67 QB rating

But I'm sure you are right, they are nothing alike.

Dude.....how'd Quinn do in college? Because that's what we're talking about.

Quinn in college had no problem with the deep ball and no problem with accuracy.

go bowe
09-23-2010, 12:03 PM
That would be San Diego. Charles tied it very quickly. Glad we didn't have to find out without that run, 'cause up to that point things were not looking good either side of the ball."that run" doesn't count...

it's a statistical anomaly...

i know b/c i read it on chiefs planet...

Pioli Zombie
09-23-2010, 12:20 PM
So this thread is asking if Charlie Weis shoulders some responsibility for the Chiefs being 2-0?
WTF?

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-23-2010, 12:52 PM
Let's switch things up. Obviously we are 2-0 and are extremely unhappy about it.

How much of the responsibility does Weis shou-



Stop. Give the man weapons in abundance; everything cool. Starting with....wait for it....

A FUCKING QUARTERBACK.

Mecca
09-23-2010, 12:56 PM
I think Weis biggest problem is the guy likes to throw the ball and he's been given a QB that isn't good at well anything.

Wallcrawler
09-23-2010, 01:10 PM
If youre Charlie Weiss and you have a QB that is as bad as we all know he is, you dont really have too many options.

You put him on a leash and try to limit the amount of mistakes and turnovers he can make, and your offense isnt very flashy. You put up FGs and eat a little clock.


Or you could just take him off the leash and let him fling it 40 times in a game and see how far that gets you. He cant throw accurately past 15 yards, all his deep passes are high hangers that beg to be picked off, and he has ZERO pocket presence.


If Weiss let Cassel off the leash and the events we know would happen occur, then everyone calls for his head because as an offensive coordinator you have to play to the strengths of your players. Sadly, Cassel's strength is in a dink and dunk checkdown offense.

Not to mention our receivers arent going to run by anyone. They rarely get separation. Any throws that get made have to be high velocity and right on the money. You wont see much of that from Cassel.


Weiss has done about as good a job as he can with what he's got.

Calitozoni
09-23-2010, 02:28 PM
Wait, I think you mean how would Charlie Weis do as the featured running back, right?

Charlie Weis needs more carries.

jspchief
09-23-2010, 02:31 PM
So this thread is asking if Charlie Weis shoulders some responsibility for the Chiefs being 2-0?
WTF?No it's asking if Weis shoulders some of the responsibility of the offense being f*cking terrible.

Right now the Chiefs are 30th in the league in total yards, first downs, and 3rd down conversion percentage. They are 17th in points scored, and we all know how many of those points came from actual offense.

I realize we are 2-0. I am very pleased about it. I only get 16 chances per year to see my favorite team play, and I savor every win.

But I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that this team doesn't have serious problems on offense. I'm tired of seeing people dismiss every suggestion of deficiencies on this team based solely on the fact that we've won our first 2 games.

Pestilence
09-23-2010, 02:35 PM
Really?

Quinn's arm strength, lack of a deep ball and accuracy have been questioned as much as Cassel's.

Last year:
Cassel - 55% completion percentage, 1:1 TD to INT ratio, 5.9 y/a, 69 QB rating
Quinn - 53% completion percentage, 8TD to 7 INT, 5.2 y/a, 67 QB rating

But I'm sure you are right, they are nothing alike.

Quinn in college under Weis:

2005 - 3919 yards, 64.9%, 32 TDS, 7 INTs, 158.40 rating
2006 - 3426 yards, 61.9%, 37 TDS, 7 INTs, 146.65 rating

Clausen in college under Weis:

2007 - 1254 yards, 56.3%, 7 TDs, 6 INTs, 103.85 rating
2008 - 3172 yards, 60.9%, 25 TDs, 17 INTs, 132.49 rating
2009 - 3722 yards, 68.0%, 28 TDs, 4 INTs, 161.43 rating

HemiEd
09-23-2010, 02:40 PM
Good point. Whereas players from KC go on to great things:

Tynes - Super Bowl ring.
Fujita - Super Bowl ring.
Kawika Mitchell - Super Bowl ring.
Pollard - doing well in Texas.

Don't forget LJ! Junior Siavii! Ryan Sims!

Reerun_KC
09-23-2010, 06:38 PM
No it's asking if Weis shoulders some of the responsibility of the offense being f*cking terrible.

Right now the Chiefs are 30th in the league in total yards, first downs, and 3rd down conversion percentage. They are 17th in points scored, and we all know how many of those points came from actual offense.

I realize we are 2-0. I am very pleased about it. I only get 16 chances per year to see my favorite team play, and I savor every win.

But I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that this team doesn't have serious problems on offense. I'm tired of seeing people dismiss every suggestion of deficiencies on this team based solely on the fact that we've won our first 2 games.

Thing is everyone wants to blame everything solely on Cassel... Weis could call a fucking kneel down ever play of the game, with Croyle under center and people would give him a pass, while blaming Cassel for not being in the game...

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-23-2010, 06:48 PM
Thing is everyone wants to blame everything solely on Cassel... Weis could call a fucking kneel down ever play of the game, with Croyle under center and people would give him a pass, while blaming Cassel for not being in the game...

Mother of fuck...

:facepalm:

OnTheWarpath58
09-23-2010, 06:59 PM
No it's asking if Weis shoulders some of the responsibility of the offense being f*cking terrible.

Right now the Chiefs are 30th in the league in total yards, first downs, and 3rd down conversion percentage. They are 17th in points scored, and we all know how many of those points came from actual offense.

I realize we are 2-0. I am very pleased about it. I only get 16 chances per year to see my favorite team play, and I savor every win.

But I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that this team doesn't have serious problems on offense. I'm tired of seeing people dismiss every suggestion of deficiencies on this team based solely on the fact that we've won our first 2 games.


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