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View Full Version : Chiefs TJ was better than Charles in Cleveland.


SenselessChiefsFan
09-23-2010, 09:36 AM
I know this will catch some grief, but the reality is that other than the 20 yard run against a defense expecting a pass at the end of the first half, JC averaged less than 3 yards a carry and broke no runs of longer than 10 yards.

Charles got the ball on 3-1 at the Cleveland six at 9:31 to go in the third quarter. At that point, TJ had one more carry than Charles. One.

Charles took a two yard loss. At that point, the Chiefs started going to TJ more and more down the stretch.

I won't blame that solely on Charles, it was a combination of blocking, defense, etc.

But, clearly, the match up versus Cleveland favored Thomas Jones. It was evident in nearly every carry other than the one that JC got at the end of the half.

And, if you take out the last for TJ carries, when the Browns new that the Chiefs were going to run the ball to ice the game. If you take out those for carries, TJ averaged over 4 yards a carry in the Cleveland game.

When you really break it down, I think you might actually see what the coaches see.

I will also note that if you take the 56 yard run out of the San Diego game, TJ and JC have the same yards per carry. JC is a tremendous playmaker, but he isn't the workhorse that TJ is and TJ rarely takes a loss. TJ is always falling forward.

JC actually had one more carry than TJ in the San Diego game, but it was called back on a penalty.

Even with all this said, I think JC needs to get on the field more. However, this isn't fantasy football, you have to look at more than just the box score to understand why guys are in the game during certain situations.

Mr. Arrowhead
09-23-2010, 09:37 AM
BTW Cassel sucks

CaliforniaChief
09-23-2010, 09:38 AM
http://3alleypub.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg?w=450

Detoxing
09-23-2010, 09:39 AM
Oh fuck...

loochy
09-23-2010, 09:39 AM
Too many new Jamaal Charles related threads. Head...exploding....ARAGAHHHH!

Reaper16
09-23-2010, 09:40 AM
And until someone gives me a convincing rebuttal to my assertion that IF Charles was less effective than TJ than it was only because the way that Charles was used made him so (in that the opposing defense sold out on the run on every Charles down because 1.) they know that Charles is the Chiefs' most explosive player, and 2.) since Charles was sparingly used, it meant that when he finally did see play that the ball would likely be going to him because no one expects a team to not use its best offensive threat) I will not agree with any post that comes close to suggesting that TJ is/was better.

booyaf2
09-23-2010, 09:41 AM
The game was in KC, not Cleveland. Get your facts straight.

keg in kc
09-23-2010, 09:42 AM
Bill Clinton did not have sexual relations with that woman.

Coogs
09-23-2010, 09:42 AM
I know this will catch some grief, but the reality is that other than the 20 yard run against a defense expecting a pass at the end of the first half, JC averaged less than 3 yards a carry and broke no runs of longer than 10 yards.

Charles got the ball on 3-1 at the Cleveland six at 9:31 to go in the third quarter. At that point, TJ had one more carry than Charles. One.

Charles took a two yard loss. At that point, the Chiefs started going to TJ more and more down the stretch.

I won't blame that solely on Charles, it was a combination of blocking, defense, etc.

But, clearly, the match up versus Cleveland favored Thomas Jones. It was evident in nearly every carry other than the one that JC got at the end of the half.

And, if you take out the last for TJ carries, when the Browns new that the Chiefs were going to run the ball to ice the game. If you take out those for carries, TJ averaged over 4 yards a carry in the Cleveland game.

When you really break it down, I think you might actually see what the coaches see.

I will also note that if you take the 56 yard run out of the San Diego game, TJ and JC have the same yards per carry. JC is a tremendous playmaker, but he isn't the workhorse that TJ is and TJ rarely takes a loss. TJ is always falling forward.

JC actually had one more carry than TJ in the San Diego game, but it was called back on a penalty.

Even with all this said, I think JC needs to get on the field more. However, this isn't fantasy football, you have to look at more than just the box score to understand why guys are in the game during certain situations.

It has been beat to death, but with an offense that is struggling to score points, that 56 yard TD could come and any point in time. And it could come more than once per game.

CaliforniaChief
09-23-2010, 09:44 AM
And I thought ChiefsPlanet would become more bearable when the season started and wondered what it would be like if we won some games.

ChiefsPlanet's burst has been greatly exaggerated.

the Talking Can
09-23-2010, 09:44 AM
everyone knows Jones is better than Charles...



it's ok, we'll draft a better backup next year

-King-
09-23-2010, 09:44 AM
WHAT THE FUCK? DID YOU SERIOUSLY MAKE ANOTHER TOPIC? WTF?


Do you not see the 15 other JC threads?

bevischief
09-23-2010, 09:45 AM
http://3alleypub.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg?w=450

Please quit it.

Reerun_KC
09-23-2010, 09:47 AM
man not again!

Art Vader
09-23-2010, 09:48 AM
W!

bevischief
09-23-2010, 09:49 AM
WHAT THE ****? DID YOU SERIOUSLY MAKE ANOTHER TOPIC? WTF?


Do you not see the 15 other JC threads?

This x 1000.

Brock
09-23-2010, 09:49 AM
What's the record?

Reerun_KC
09-23-2010, 09:50 AM
What's the record?

Cassel 17-17

Croyle 0-9


thread hijack!

petegz28
09-23-2010, 09:50 AM
People don't want to break down the numbers. They just want to look at the YPC and leave it at that. They don't want to break down the numbers because they love jizzing all over Charles regardless.

FTR, Charles is a great back and needs the ball more. There are reasons he isn't getting it more, some playcalling and mostly shitty QB play.

SenselessChiefsFan
09-23-2010, 06:25 PM
And until someone gives me a convincing rebuttal to my assertion that IF Charles was less effective than TJ than it was only because the way that Charles was used made him so (in that the opposing defense sold out on the run on every Charles down because 1.) they know that Charles is the Chiefs' most explosive player, and 2.) since Charles was sparingly used, it meant that when he finally did see play that the ball would likely be going to him because no one expects a team to not use its best offensive threat) I will not agree with any post that comes close to suggesting that TJ is/was better.

The problem is that Charles isn't as good in pass protection, so of course the opposition keys on him getting the ball. I am hoping that this leads to two RB sets in the future.

SenselessChiefsFan
09-23-2010, 06:26 PM
The game was in KC, not Cleveland. Get your facts straight.

Joke?

SenselessChiefsFan
09-23-2010, 06:29 PM
It has been beat to death, but with an offense that is struggling to score points, that 56 yard TD could come and any point in time. And it could come more than once per game.

I don't think that Charles is used enough and I don't like the way he is being used. But, with that said, TJ has played as well or better than Charles. Especially on a down by down basis. And, I think the key to getting Charles more carries is keeping the offense on the field.

Douche Baggins
09-23-2010, 06:31 PM
Charles got the ball on 3-1 at the Cleveland six at 9:31 to go in the third quarter. At that point, TJ had one more carry than Charles. One.

Charles took a two yard loss. At that point, the Chiefs started going to TJ more and more down the stretch.

The elephant in the room, fully exposed.

Pioli Zombie
09-23-2010, 07:07 PM
Bishop Eddie Long sucks cock.

sedated
09-23-2010, 07:16 PM
I agree.

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by a whiny skeptical fan-base full of arm-chair GMs.

Hog Farmer
09-23-2010, 07:28 PM
Could we please just put McCluster in and forget about those two !!!!

CrazyHorse
09-23-2010, 07:31 PM
So you guys would rather have Jones over Charles?

Yeah......me either. Given 20 carries a game would solve all these debates. Jones had 5 mediocre carries in one game and everyone forgets the half season Charles put together.

Charles did nothing to lose his starting job to Jones. Now were back to rbbc. Yee ****ing haw

Saul Good
09-23-2010, 07:33 PM
I will also note that if you take the 56 yard run out of the San Diego game, TJ and JC have the same yards per carry.

If you take away the homeruns, Mark McGwire had a pretty pedestrian season in 1998.

Saul Good
09-23-2010, 07:33 PM
If you take away the getting shot in the head, Abraham Lincoln enjoyed the play.

Saul Good
09-23-2010, 07:34 PM
If you take away the nudity and sex, Debbie Does Dallas wasn't a very good movie.

BCD
09-23-2010, 07:35 PM
http://3alleypub.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg?w=450
ROFL

sedated
09-23-2010, 07:38 PM
So you guys would rather have Jones over Charles?

Yeah......me either. Given 20 carries a game would solve all these debates. Jones had 5 mediocre carries in one game and everyone forgets the half season Charles put together.

Charles did nothing to lose his starting job to Jones. Now were back to rbbc. Yee ****ing haw

that's a false choice. we have both, so its a mute point.

and RBBC is the way it is now in the National Football League.


a question to the Planet whiners - would you rather get 400 carries out of JC this year and then he's done (a la LJ, Eddie George, Jamal Anderson), or limit his carries early, still win, and keep him fresh longer?

Hog Farmer
09-23-2010, 07:40 PM
that's a false choice. we have both, so its a mute point.

and RBBC is the way it is now in the National Football League.


a question to the Planet whiners - would you rather get 400 carries out of JC this year and then he's done (a la LJ, Eddie George, Jamal Anderson), or limit his carries early, still win, and keep him fresh longer?

I think the coaching staff has the plan. and yes , lets use Charles as needed.

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-23-2010, 07:40 PM
I know this will catch some grief, but the reality is that other than the 20 yard run against a defense expecting a pass at the end of the first half, JC averaged less than 3 yards a carry and broke no runs of longer than 10 yards.

Charles got the ball on 3-1 at the Cleveland six at 9:31 to go in the third quarter. At that point, TJ had one more carry than Charles. One.

Charles took a two yard loss. At that point, the Chiefs started going to TJ more and more down the stretch.

I won't blame that solely on Charles, it was a combination of blocking, defense, etc.

But, clearly, the match up versus Cleveland favored Thomas Jones. It was evident in nearly every carry other than the one that JC got at the end of the half.

And, if you take out the last for TJ carries, when the Browns new that the Chiefs were going to run the ball to ice the game. If you take out those for carries, TJ averaged over 4 yards a carry in the Cleveland game.

When you really break it down, I think you might actually see what the coaches see.

I will also note that if you take the 56 yard run out of the San Diego game, TJ and JC have the same yards per carry. JC is a tremendous playmaker, but he isn't the workhorse that TJ is and TJ rarely takes a loss. TJ is always falling forward.

JC actually had one more carry than TJ in the San Diego game, but it was called back on a penalty.

Even with all this said, I think JC needs to get on the field more. However, this isn't fantasy football, you have to look at more than just the box score to understand why guys are in the game during certain situations.


:facepalm: Why?

petegz28
09-23-2010, 08:14 PM
Sunday was not Charles' day. He ripped the Browns last year and they were hellbent on not letting it happen again. Just as we made sure Cribbs and Harrison weren't going to rip us up again.

Overall though, the playcalling was shitty. Not 1 screen, not 1. We need to get Charles the ball in ways other than handing it off to get defenses to loosen up. He had a nice gain on his 1 reception. We need to get him involved with more screens and HB routes.

I remember a play Elway and the Broncos ran all the time that just killed teams...

HB chips a block and leaks into the area vacated by the LB's. Easy 8-10 yard gain most of the time. We need more things like that. Charles is also going to have to solidify his passblocking so we can run some PA Pass with him in.

But all in all, I have beat this horse and will continue too, Cassel has to complete 3rd and short passes when his number gets called to keep drives going.

SenselessChiefsFan
09-23-2010, 08:18 PM
So you guys would rather have Jones over Charles?

Yeah......me either. Given 20 carries a game would solve all these debates. Jones had 5 mediocre carries in one game and everyone forgets the half season Charles put together.

Charles did nothing to lose his starting job to Jones. Now were back to rbbc. Yee ****ing haw

If I could only have one for an entire season, yes, I would rather have Jones. Jones is more durable, and the better all around back.

And, when we have to grind out a first down, I want Jones in there, not Charles. Hey, Charles needs to get on the field, but when we MUST get positive yards, Jones is the guy.

I didn't forget the half season that Charles put together. I also didn't forget that he spent the offseason rehabbing from an injury.

TJ is the better all around back. Charles is the more exciting and electrifying player, but that doesn't equal better.

SenselessChiefsFan
09-23-2010, 08:19 PM
:facepalm: Why?

You mean, why post something truthful, articulate and actually based on stats and logic?

I don't know, I thought it would be a nice change for CP.

SenselessChiefsFan
09-23-2010, 08:22 PM
Sunday was not Charles' day. He ripped the Browns last year and they were hellbent on not letting it happen again. Just as we made sure Cribbs and Harrison weren't going to rip us up again.

Overall though, the playcalling was shitty. Not 1 screen, not 1. We need to get Charles the ball in ways other than handing it off to get defenses to loosen up. He had a nice gain on his 1 reception. We need to get him involved with more screens and HB routes.

I remember a play Elway and the Broncos ran all the time that just killed teams...

HB chips a block and leaks into the area vacated by the LB's. Easy 8-10 yard gain most of the time. We need more things like that. Charles is also going to have to solidify his passblocking so we can run some PA Pass with him in.

But all in all, I have beat this horse and will continue too, Cassel has to complete 3rd and short passes when his number gets called to keep drives going.


#1) I agree that the play calling has not been great.

#2) Cassel did a pretty good job completing passes on third down in the second half of the Cleveland game. (Let's hope this is the start of him becoming a solid game manager.)

I am looking forward to the Chiefs after the bye. I think Weis will have had more time to really figure out what this team does best in games.

Calitozoni
09-23-2010, 08:25 PM
Charlie Weis needs more carries.

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-23-2010, 09:22 PM
Charlie Weis needs more carries.

He's been "carried" plenty in that damned scooter of his, fat fuck.

JoeyChuckles
09-23-2010, 09:26 PM
Houshmanzadah? Not likely. I don't think he was anywhere near Cleveland.

Pioli Zombie
09-23-2010, 09:26 PM
I believe a few posts back somebody actually said something was a "mute point".
I thought it needed to be pointed out.

Pioli Zombie
09-23-2010, 09:28 PM
I just discovered Mike Singletary's playbook
www.doodie.com.

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-23-2010, 09:38 PM
I just discovered Mike Singletary's playbook
www.doodie.com (http://www.doodie.com).

LMAO

Mr. Kotter
09-23-2010, 09:52 PM
Jamal needs more carries, and Cassel (to this point) sucks??? :shrug:

Just sayin.... :hmmm:

CHENZ A!
09-23-2010, 10:15 PM
Jamal needs more carries, and Cassel (to this point) sucks??? :shrug:

Just sayin.... :hmmm:

eat shit cocksucker.

POND_OF_RED
09-23-2010, 10:25 PM
The problem is that Charles isn't as good in pass protection, so of course the opposition keys on him getting the ball. I am hoping that this leads to two RB sets in the future.

I say we run the wishbone. Put Jones right behind Cassel in the FB spot and throw Charles and McCluster behind them. Defenses wouldn't know what to do. It's not like we need a passing formation for anything.

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-23-2010, 10:27 PM
I say we run the wishbone. Put Jones right behind Cassel in the FB spot and throw Charles and McCluster behind them. Defenses wouldn't know what to do. It's not like we need a passing formation for anything.

I would be TOTALLY down for some old fashioned wishbone!

CrazyHorse
09-24-2010, 05:47 AM
that's a false choice. we have both, so its a mute point.

and RBBC is the way it is now in the National Football League.


a question to the Planet whiners - would you rather get 400 carries out of JC this year and then he's done (a la LJ, Eddie George, Jamal Anderson), or limit his carries early, still win, and keep him fresh longer?

that's a false choice. we have both, so its a mute point.

and RBBC is the way it is now in the National Football League.


a question to the Planet whiners - would you rather get 400 carries out of JC this year and then he's done (a la LJ, Eddie George, Jamal Anderson), or limit his carries early, still win, and keep him fresh longer?
False choice? That was dumb. The thread is about one being better than the other so I ask which one would you want

Why does it have to be 400 carries?


If we were 0-2 there would be no debate. Everyone would want our best back getting the carries. Offense is not winning games for us. When it starts losing games I think we will allll be on the same page.

EnviroMatt
09-24-2010, 08:10 AM
Anyone else see the resemblance?!?

http://www.footballnewsnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/thomas_jones_sm.jpg http://celebrity-pics.movieeye.com/celebrity_pictures/Chuck_Norris_939419.jpg

400 carries is no problem for TJ!