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View Full Version : Chiefs Did you over-react to the work of Scott Pioli?


jAZ
09-26-2010, 01:58 PM
There were a whole lot of people who lost patience with Scott Pioli starting after the hiring of Todd Haley and the 1st pick in the 2009 draft.

The Haley Hire sucked.
The Tyson Jackson pick sucked.
The Cassel/Vrabel trade sucked.
The whole 2009 Draft sucked.
Tamba Hali sucks.
The Dexter McCluster pick sucked.
The Tony Moeaki pick sucked.
The moves on the OL sucked.
The majority of the 2010 draft sucked.
Playing Thomas Jones so much sucks.

What else am I missing?

DaneMcCloud
09-26-2010, 02:01 PM
The 2009 Chiefs draft remains an abortion. Jackson and Magee did not suit up today. Succop missed a FG, proving he's not perfect.

Cassel HAS sucked for the most part. Today, he was very good, due some great game-planning by Weis.

I loved the 2010 draft, the TJ acquisition and the hiring of Crennel & especially, Weis.

But the majority of talent was here before Pioli arrived.

the Talking Can
09-26-2010, 02:01 PM
yeah, you're the guy who got everything right


go fuck yourself, you're ruining a good day


hilarious who shows up to cry on our best win in ages

chiefzilla1501
09-26-2010, 02:05 PM
There were a whole lot of people who lost patience with Scott Pioli starting after the hiring of Todd Haley and the 1st pick in the 2009 draft.

The Haley Hire sucked.
The Tyson Jackson pick sucked.
The Cassel/Vrabel trade sucked.
The whole 2009 Draft sucked.
Tamba Hali sucks.
The Dexter McCluster pick sucked.
The Tony Moeaki pick sucked.
The moves on the OL sucked.
The majority of the 2010 draft sucked.
Playing Thomas Jones so much sucks.

What else am I missing?

I think the big one is that Scott Pioli was a dumbass for caring about "the right 53." And making a lot of very unpopular moves in the process.

Ther reason the Chiefs are 3-0 and the Cowboys are 1-2 is that they're treating every single game like it's the Super Bowl.

jAZ
09-26-2010, 02:07 PM
yeah, you're the guy who got everything right


go fuck yourself, you're ruining a good day


hilarious who shows up to cry on our best win in ages
Do you think the endless bitching for 18 months around here might have ruined the entire board for 18 f-ing months?!?!

The only thing I got right was having the humility to wait, see what developed, and not pretend that I have any idea what it takes to build a *team*.

I wasn't right about anything else, because I never claimed to be. I took a wait-and-see approach. They could have screwed everything up. I don't know how to build a franchise.

keg in kc
09-26-2010, 02:15 PM
Thinking everything is hunky-dory at this point wouldn't be much less of an overreaction. They're 3 games into the season. There's a long, long haul left to go.

Just enjoy the wins, and don't overthink.

beach tribe
09-26-2010, 02:21 PM
The 2009 Chiefs draft remains an abortion. Jackson and Magee did not suit up today. Succop missed a FG, proving he's not perfect.

Cassel HAS sucked for the most part. Today, he was very good, due some great game-planning by Weis.

I loved the 2010 draft, the TJ acquisition and the hiring of Crennel & especially, Weis.

But the majority of talent was here before Pioli arrived.

OMG. Succup missed his first FG from inside 40 yards. Horrible 7th rounder.

2009 draft wasn't a world beater, but did Pioli have all of HIS men on the job? No he didn't.

He NAILED the 2010 draft, and took a 2-14 team to 3-0 in 2 YEARS.

Pioli hired Haley, who slapped the lazy bitch loser attitude out of "the players that were already here"
He hired Crennel, who has this defense playing with more discipline than they have since I've been alive(Haley benching our most talented defensive player for not being disciplined helped a lot)
He hired Weis who has figured out what he has to work with now.

And HE chose PLAYMAKERS over the guys that all of the know it all, shit slinging, insult artists such as yourself, emphatically pronounced to be the acts of an idiot.......No offense. Just sayin.

What was that you said about our chances of being 3-0.

Guess what know it alls. GoChiefs and the rest of non belittlers have been closer to right than ANY of you.

Enjoy the win though, eh.

chiefzilla1501
09-26-2010, 02:23 PM
Thinking everything is hunky-dory at this point wouldn't be much less of an overreaction. They're 3 games into the season. There's a long, long haul left to go.

Just enjoy the wins, and don't overthink.

I don't think anybody thinks that.

But the fact is that the Chiefs have won more games than some expected and are only 1-2 wins away from winning more games than a lot of the pessimists thought.

The Chiefs are undoubtedly better. This season, that's all any reasonable fan should have hoped for.

grandllama
09-26-2010, 02:24 PM
There needs to be another option. Yes I over hated last year. I'm still cautious about Pioli, but I love what Haley is doing this year.

Considering his coaching got 100% better after the incident, I wish he would have flipped off GBlowfish in week one last year.

jAZ
09-26-2010, 02:24 PM
Thinking everything is hunky-dory at this point wouldn't be much less of an overreaction. They're 3 games into the season. There's a long, long haul left to go.

Just enjoy the wins, and don't overthink.

Agreed. But it's pretty clear from what we know now that a LOT of the reactions of the last 18 months was premature. Acknowledging that simple fact isn't itself premature.

Reaper16
09-26-2010, 02:25 PM
No, I have not overreacted.

jAZ
09-26-2010, 02:26 PM
There needs to be another option. Yes I over hated last year. I'm still cautious about Pioli, but I love what Haley is doing this year.

Considering his coaching got 100% better after the incident, I wish he would have flipped off GBlowfish in week one last year.

That's actually more of what I meant than what I said in the final option. It's not like we've won a super bowl. If I could change the last option to this, I would.

Bearcat
09-26-2010, 02:34 PM
I took the wait-and-see approach... who would have thought Haley would be better with some experience, an OC, and a better DC? :rolleyes:

A lot of Haley's mistakes seem to be due to ego and/or inexperience.... it wasn't like Herm, where the foundation of play for field position and a miracle wasn't ever going to work, and he showed over and over that he was never going to change.

Baby Lee
09-26-2010, 02:40 PM
2009 draft did suck
Cassel does suck
The coaching staff in 2009 was a clusterfuck
Haven't really been against anything that's transpired since then [TJones, Shaun Smith, Crennel, Weis, Lilja, Weigman, 2010 draft]

beach tribe
09-26-2010, 02:43 PM
I don't think anybody thinks that.

But the fact is that the Chiefs have won more games than some expected and are only 1-2 wins away from winning more games than a lot of the pessimists thought.

The Chiefs are undoubtedly better. This season, that's all any reasonable fan should have hoped for.

Isn't that all that anyone said they wanted? To see improvement, a sign that things were headed in the right direction? Well, ugh, guess what.

beach tribe
09-26-2010, 02:45 PM
ZERO in the over-reaction column I see. All the people who cried at no end must not have voted.:hmmm:

Pawnmower
09-26-2010, 02:46 PM
The 2009 Chiefs draft remains an abortion. Jackson and Magee did not suit up today. Succop missed a FG, proving he's not perfect.

Cassel HAS sucked for the most part. Today, he was very good, due some great game-planning by Weis.

I loved the 2010 draft, the TJ acquisition and the hiring of Crennel & especially, Weis.

But the majority of talent was here before Pioli arrived.

Idiot...

Pioli got rid of over 30 players when he took the team over...30 out of the 53 who were on the roster one season prior. How you can possibly say the majority of talent was there prior to Pioli with a straight face is amazing. Will you still be sticking to this in a season or two?

And if you think missing a FG makes the last pick of a draft bad...welll...that is nonsense too.

Furthermore if after every good game you are going to say Cassel played well because of x , y or z.....

You are so much fail, it is just great to watch. Clearly you do not know SHIT about anything.

Keep it up though...it is funny as hell.

SenselessChiefsFan
09-26-2010, 02:51 PM
The 2009 Chiefs draft remains an abortion. Jackson and Magee did not suit up today. Succop missed a FG, proving he's not perfect.

Cassel HAS sucked for the most part. Today, he was very good, due some great game-planning by Weis.

I loved the 2010 draft, the TJ acquisition and the hiring of Crennel & especially, Weis.

But the majority of talent was here before Pioli arrived.

Hey, I won't argue that a lot of talent was here prior to Pioli. I said all along that Herm Edwards was a great talent evaluator and was willing to go young. That alone, made me a fan.

Even with all that 'talent' The Chiefs went 2-10 in their final season under Herm Edwards. I know, I know, they were 'young'. Like the draft class this year...who are certainly contributing.

And, Hali is a 'scrub' right. Because he is not a starting caliber player, and would be 'horrible' in the 3-4. I mean, scrubs get three sacks all the time.

Pioli won't be right every single time. No GM, no coach, no player...... even the best ones are perfect.

I won't dispute that Cassel looked good due to good game planning. (Similar to a guy like Orton.) Game planning and surrounding talent makes average starting QB's look good, and good starting QB's look great.

But, one game does not a season or career make. I think Cassel turned the corner today. No, he isn't a 'franchise' QB. But, Weis is learning what he does well. That will help him to call a game to the best of Cassel's ability.

I do think it's funny that you still want to pick apart what Pioli has done. The Chiefs are 3-0 and had their MOST dominant win thus far this season. It is hard to find a single weakness in that win. But, you still have to point out what you dissagree with.

SenselessChiefsFan
09-26-2010, 02:54 PM
I think the big one is that Scott Pioli was a dumbass for caring about "the right 53." And making a lot of very unpopular moves in the process.

Ther reason the Chiefs are 3-0 and the Cowboys are 1-2 is that they're treating every single game like it's the Super Bowl.

I agree that would be silly. But, the reality is that even the strongest homers, thought that the Chiefs would be 2-1 at the best. And, there were some who were 'sure' that the Chiefs would be 0-3.

The point isn't that the Chiefs are going to the Super Bowl. But, the Chiefs are a rebuilding team that is 3-0. Not bad. Not bad at all.

Rigodan
09-26-2010, 03:01 PM
Idiot...
Furthermore if after every good game you are going to say Cassel played well because of x , y or z.....

You are so much fail, it is just great to watch. Clearly you do not know SHIT about anything.


San Fran made it easy for him today. They refused to cover anyone in the flat and were awful on screen plays and that is all Cassel did today. The TD passes to Bowe and Moeaki were the only completions that were down the feild that I can remember and only because Bowe was wide open and Moeaki made an incredible catch. Cassel's numbers were good but it was largely because SF's defense had their head up their ass and let us get our playmakers the ball in space all day.

grandllama
09-26-2010, 03:04 PM
snip... let us get our playmakers the ball in space all day.

There are a minimum of six play makers on our offense. All we have to do is make sure Matty's play is negated by getting the ball to one of them as quick as possible.

Let the playmakers carry the heavy load. If that means dinks and dunks and wildcats, I'm fine.

All we need Matty to be is servicable. He was that today.

DaneMcCloud
09-26-2010, 03:13 PM
2009 draft wasn't a world beater, but did Pioli have all of HIS men on the job? No he didn't.

No, he did not.

It's been reported and linked time and again that Pioli used the reports compiled from the New England scouting department and trashed the Chiefs reports.

He NAILED the 2010 draft, and took a 2-14 team to 3-0 in 2 YEARS.

And HE chose PLAYMAKERS over the guys that all of the know it all, shit slinging, insult artists such as yourself, emphatically pronounced to be the acts of an idiot.......No offense. Just sayin.

Fuck you.

I LOVED the draft and said so on draft day and defended the picks.

What was that you said about our chances of being 3-0.

I've picked the Chiefs to win the past two weeks. In August, I didn't.

Guess what know it alls. GoChiefs and the rest of non belittlers have been closer to right than ANY of you.

Wrong. And who the FUCK are you referring to, Dickhead?

Enjoy the win though, eh.

Go fuck yourself.

DaneMcCloud
09-26-2010, 03:18 PM
Idiot...

Pioli got rid of over 30 players when he took the team over...30 out of the 53 who were on the roster one season prior. How you can possibly say the majority of talent was there prior to Pioli with a straight face is amazing. Will you still be sticking to this in a season or two?



You're a fucking idiot.

Go ahead and name the starters and let us know how many where here when Pioli took over in 2008.

I'll be waiting, Dumbass.

DaneMcCloud
09-26-2010, 03:20 PM
And HE chose PLAYMAKERS over the guys that all of the know it all, shit slinging, insult artists such as yourself, emphatically pronounced to be the acts of an idiot.......No offense. Just sayin.



More proof that you're a fucking moron:

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6712720

You're talking in absolutes: If, If, If.

These guys were brought in to play immediately. They're game changers.

The Chiefs NEEDED a real nickel back and a returner. The Chiefs NEEDED a guy like McCluster. I expect Weis to line him up all over the field.

I think the secondary is going to take a HUGE leap this year. I expect improvement from Mays and especially Belcher & Studebaker.

Personally, I'll take dynamic playmakers any day of the week over a NT or ILB. If the Chiefs had taken an ILB and NT, maybe the defense would be improved but the offense would still suck ass, as would the return game.

I'll take a guy that has the ability to take it to the house every time he touches the ball over a NT every single time. Especially when that NT is a questionable fucking fat ass.

TheGuardian
09-26-2010, 03:32 PM
More proof that you're a ****ing moron:

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6712720

I remember that post by Dane now. I think Dane gets unfairly tossed in with the fucking idiots like Mecca sometimes who say that EVERYTHING the Chiefs do is wrong.

The McCluster and Arenas picks certainly make a lot of "smart" people on this board look like dumb mother fuckers.

BigRedChief
09-26-2010, 03:52 PM
The record shows that I wanted Scott Pioli to replace King Carl back in 2004 when I started a thread on bringing Pioli in here.

ChiefsCountry
09-26-2010, 06:24 PM
Idiot...

Pioli got rid of over 30 players when he took the team over...30 out of the 53 who were on the roster one season prior. How you can possibly say the majority of talent was there prior to Pioli with a straight face is amazing. Will you still be sticking to this in a season or two?


Bowe
Charles
Albert
Waters
Richardson
Dorsey
Edwards
Hali
Johnson
Flowers
Carr
McGraw
Colquitt

Then the backups..
Gillberry
Studebacker
Croyle
Cox
Williams

SenselessChiefsFan
09-26-2010, 07:49 PM
San Fran made it easy for him today. They refused to cover anyone in the flat and were awful on screen plays and that is all Cassel did today. The TD passes to Bowe and Moeaki were the only completions that were down the feild that I can remember and only because Bowe was wide open and Moeaki made an incredible catch. Cassel's numbers were good but it was largely because SF's defense had their head up their ass and let us get our playmakers the ball in space all day.

Yeah, because that is an awful defense. :rolleyes:

Weis did a good job calling and game planning that game. Cassel did a good job executing the gameplan.

DJ's left nut
09-26-2010, 07:59 PM
Sorry, but 2009 still sucked.

Cassel is still bad and nobody from the 2009 draft contributed to today's win.

The 2010 offseason appear to be trending better than I thought, but I won't apologize at all for anything I said regarding 2009. Even during our incredible start, the 2009 offseason has still contributed virtually nothing.

If 2011 shows the Chiefs as a true contender for a title, I'll admit that I gave up on Pioli too soon.

Pitt Gorilla
09-26-2010, 08:03 PM
I've held out hope for Cassel because of what I saw in TC last year. Among our QBs, he was the ONLY one who could consistently make all of the throws. Thiggy, Croyle, whoeverelsethe**** couldn't come close to Cassel's talent. I still think his best football is yet to come.

Mr. Arrowhead
09-26-2010, 08:06 PM
there was alot of teams that missed out on the 2009 draft, because that was one of the less talented draft classes as whole.

beach tribe
09-26-2010, 08:16 PM
No, he did not.

It's been reported and linked time and again that Pioli used the reports compiled from the New England scouting department and trashed the Chiefs reports.

He NAILED the 2010 draft, and took a 2-14 team to 3-0 in 2 YEARS.



**** you.

I LOVED the draft and said so on draft day and defended the picks.



I've picked the Chiefs to win the past two weeks. In August, I didn't.



Wrong. And who the **** are you referring to, Dickhead?



Go **** yourself.

You're actually right Dane. You have touted the draft, and a lot of things that have been done. You have not been a Pioli basher ever since the draft,
I had actually just forgotten where you stand on this.
You have poured it on a few people, because of their optimism, but that's not the point when it comes to this post.

My apologies sir.

Pioli Zombie
09-26-2010, 08:20 PM
After 5 games last year the Chiefs were 0-5 and had lost 28 of 30. Since then they are 7-7 and have won their last 4. I'd say that's some MFing progress.

DaneMcCloud
09-26-2010, 08:40 PM
You're actually right Dane. You have touted the draft, and a lot of things that have been done. You have not been a Pioli basher ever since the draft,
I had actually just forgotten where you stand on this.
You have poured it on a few people, because of their optimism, but that's not the point when it comes to this post.

My apologies sir.

Thank you, my friend.

All the best!

Marcellus
09-26-2010, 08:40 PM
Bowe
Charles
Albert
Waters
Richardson
Dorsey
Edwards
Hali
Johnson
Flowers
Carr
McGraw
Colquitt

Then the backups..
Gillberry
Studebacker
Croyle
Cox
Williams

Show me a team that doesn't have a majority of the team left over from the previous regime 2 years later (really less than that so far).

See playmakers:

Arenas, McCluster, and Moeaki. As well as Berry, Lewis and Shaun Smith (FA).

No team, no team just shit cans it's roster and starts with 22 new starters.

This argument is ridiculous.

DaneMcCloud
09-26-2010, 08:42 PM
Show me a team that doesn't have a majority of the team left over from the previous regime 2 years later (really less than that so far).

See playmakers:

Arenas, McCluster, and Moeaki. As well as Berry, Lewis and Shaun Smith (FA).

No team, no team just shit cans it's roster and starts with 22 new starters.

This argument is ridiculous.

You're like a broken record.

Detroit and Tampa Bay for starters.

Count Zarth
09-26-2010, 08:42 PM
The 2010 draft can't be declared a success just yet.

McCluster is exciting but he needs to become a consistent WR.

Moeaki has to stay healthy (the dude can clearly ball).

Berry has to become one of the top safeties in the NFL.

We'll see.

Marcellus
09-26-2010, 08:44 PM
You're like a broken record.

Detroit and Tampa Bay for starters.

So you are saying Detroit and TB are better? They turned over their entire roster and look better?

Wrong.

Edit: You are arguing the poster not the post.

DaneMcCloud
09-26-2010, 08:45 PM
The 2010 draft can't be declared a success just yet.

McCluster is exciting but he needs to become a consistent WR.

Moeaki has to stay healthy (the dude can clearly ball).

Berry has to become one of the top safeties in the NFL.

We'll see.

Compare the 2010 draft after three games to the 2009 draft after three games.

No fucking comparison. Not EVEN close.

This draft class has been a VITAL part of the Chiefs success this season.

Take away the kicker and the 2009 class is invisible.

The idea that it takes "3 years to judge a draft class" is irrelevant bullshit in 2010.

DaneMcCloud
09-26-2010, 08:51 PM
So you are saying Detroit and TB are better? They turned over their entire roster and look better?

Wrong.

Edit: You are arguing the poster not the post.

You're a fucking idiot.

1. You moved the goalposts. First, your qualifier was as follows:

Show me a team that doesn't have a majority of the team left over from the previous regime 2 years later (really less than that so far).

2. NOW, your qualifier is "better"?

This has nothing to do with the poster and EVERYTHING to do with your bogus claims.

And FTR, Tampa Bay IS better. So is Detroit.

Playmakers? How about Stafford, Freeman, Williams or Best? Best has been OFF THE HOOK this season.

Get your story straight.

Marcellus
09-26-2010, 09:25 PM
You're a ****ing idiot.

1. You moved the goalposts. First, your qualifier was as follows:



2. NOW, your qualifier is "better"?

This has nothing to do with the poster and EVERYTHING to do with your bogus claims.

And FTR, Tampa Bay IS better. So is Detroit.

Playmakers? How about Stafford, Freeman, Williams or Best? Best has been OFF THE HOOK this season.

Get your story straight.

Who moved the goalpost?

Most teams have most of the player left from the previous 2 years. As I said.

Yea Detroit is better than last year, yea TB may be better than last year.

Are they better than KC and did they change the majority of their starting 22?

You just named 4 players on 2 teams as play makers. I stated more than that on KC alone.

What?

Count Zarth
09-26-2010, 09:35 PM
The idea that it takes "3 years to judge a draft class" is irrelevant bullshit in 2010.

It does drive that point home, certainly.

DaneMcCloud
09-26-2010, 09:36 PM
Who moved the goalpost?

Most teams have most of the player left from the previous 2 years. As I said.

Yea Detroit is better than last year, yea TB may be better than last year.

Are they better than KC and did they change the majority of their starting 22?

You just named 4 players on 2 teams as play makers. I stated more than that on KC alone.

What?

Jesus Fucking Christ, are you bi-polar or otherwise incapable of staying on point?

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-27-2010, 01:30 AM
Thinking everything is hunky-dory at this point wouldn't be much less of an overreaction. They're 3 games into the season. There's a long, long haul left to go.

Just enjoy the wins, and don't overthink.

Yep. My only beef was and still is Cassel. The way we're playing right now, a QB of even Orton's stature could help us win a round-one game.

jAZ
12-19-2010, 04:21 PM
For anyone who's enjoying their Cassel-crow and looking to get it all in one giant helping.

Count Zarth
12-19-2010, 04:27 PM
His work is still in question. The best players on this team are still Herm and Carl's.

Pioli's roster looks pretty awesome against the NFC West, though.

jAZ
12-19-2010, 04:55 PM
His work is still in question. The best players on this team are still Herm and Carl's.

Pioli's roster looks pretty awesome against the NFC West, though.

Herm and CP had 2 wins in 2008 with Herm and CPs players.

Haley and Pioli have 4 wins in 2009 and 9 wins in 2010 with Pioli and Haley and Herm and CPs players. Haley and Pioli look pretty awesome relatively speaking.

They will always have more to prove. But everyone who was s#itting their pants over the course of the 1st season, and who refused to wait to see what would happen after 1 or even 2 seasons, have been given more than enough evidence to eat a plate.

I have no idea if you are one of them, because as best as I can tell, you've followed the wind in all directions for 2 years.

Count Zarth
12-19-2010, 05:02 PM
everyone who was s#itting their pants over the course of the 1st season, and who refused to wait to see what would happen after 1 or even 2 seasons, have been given more than enough evidence to eat a plate.


Like cdcox said, you don't decide when I eat crow.

Pioli has to fix the front seven and bring in at least one solid starting wide receiver this offseason, or next year we will suffer for it.

I'll eat crow if we make the playoffs next year, because this year (if it happens) I believe, without question, it's going to be because of our weak schedule, not because of Pioli.

FWIW Herm and Carl looked pretty "awesome" when we played the NFC West, in our last playoff season. Awesome enough that I bought in almost completely. It was a mistake.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2010, 05:03 PM
How can you over react?

Were message board fans, not NFL exec's....

OVer reacting would be just silly to say the least, it doesnt prove anything...

chiefsnorth
12-19-2010, 05:12 PM
I had faith in Pioli all along. Like most people I had doubts Cassel was going to be our guy, and about some of the personnel moves, but it just goes to show you that you can't judge a new regime for about 2 years with any accuracy.

jAZ
12-19-2010, 05:18 PM
Like cdcox said, you don't decide when I eat crow.

Pioli has to fix the front seven and bring in at least one solid starting wide receiver this offseason, or next year we will suffer for it.

I'll eat crow if we make the playoffs next year, because this year (if it happens) I believe, without question, it's going to be because of our weak schedule, not because of Pioli.

FWIW Herm and Carl looked pretty "awesome" when we played the NFC West, in our last playoff season. Awesome enough that I bought in almost completely. It was a mistake.

You don't have to buy in to the full future success of this team in order to concede that you (well, not you in particular, like I said) jumped the gun last year. If you are willing to take a wait and see approach now, you should have definately taken that approach last season. And if you didn't, then you can at least concede to that fact (which is the point of this thread) today.

There is a middle ground.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 05:19 PM
TJ #1 remains a question...but maybe...

Cassel for a #2 is looking good.

We might get something for Magee

Succop is lookin good...


It is turning out to be an acceptable draft, if Jackson can contribute.....or if Cassel continues looking like this and we get anything out of Magee's pick..

Heck if all of those things miraculously happen it could be looked at as a good draft...

Count Zarth
12-19-2010, 05:27 PM
You don't have to buy in to the full future success of this team in order to concede that you (well, not you in particular, like I said) jumped the gun last year. If you are willing to take a wait and see approach now, you should have definately taken that approach last season. And if you didn't, then you can at least concede to that fact (which is the point of this thread) today.

There is a middle ground.

Well, what you don't really understand is that I wasn't one of those people calling for his head last year.

I took a wait and see approach at the beginning of last year. I even defended his selection of Tyson Jackson.

At the end of the year when it became obvious he had made a bunch of horrible decisions, and when we dumped a bunch of those players before Week 1 this year, I really started to question him. The fact that I hated the selections of McCluster, Arenas and Asamoah only compounded those issues. The fact that our defense has suffered because of those selections doesn't help.

As far as I'm concerned, Pioli had a terrible 2009, a mediocre 2010 (mostly thanks to a pretty solid free agency class) and needs to hit a 450-foot home run in 2011 if this team is going to compete. He's not being paid to be average. He's being paid to be the best. He's the highest paid GM in football.

You could probably say I've hit that middle ground. I don't fucking loathe Scott Pioli. I just expect a lot more out of him.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2010, 05:37 PM
TJ #1 remains a question...but maybe...

Cassel for a #2 is looking good.

We might get something for Magee

Succop is lookin good...


It is turning out to be an acceptable draft, if Jackson can contribute.....or if Cassel continues looking like this and we get anything out of Magee's pick..

Heck if all of those things miraculously happen it could be looked at as a good draft...

Right now, the Cassel trade looks very good but that was pre-destined the minute Pioli was hired. All that was required was to work out the compensation with New England.

The rest of the draft? Pure horseshit.

Succop was Mr. Irrelevant in more ways than one because Connor Barth was very good for the Chiefs in 2008 and has continued to play well for the Tampa Bay Bucs.

One good choice does not make a draft great or even good. And at this point in time, the 2009 draft pales in comparison to 2008 and 2010.

Pitt Gorilla
12-19-2010, 06:10 PM
Well, what you don't really understand is that I wasn't one of those people calling for his head last year.

I took a wait and see approach at the beginning of last year. I even defended his selection of Tyson Jackson.

At the end of the year when it became obvious he had made a bunch of horrible decisions, and when we dumped a bunch of those players before Week 1 this year, I really started to question him. The fact that I hated the selections of McCluster, Arenas and Asamoah only compounded those issues. The fact that our defense has suffered because of those selections doesn't help.

As far as I'm concerned, Pioli had a terrible 2009, a mediocre 2010 (mostly thanks to a pretty solid free agency class) and needs to hit a 450-foot home run in 2011 if this team is going to compete. He's not being paid to be average. He's being paid to be the best. He's the highest paid GM in football.

You could probably say I've hit that middle ground. I don't ****ing loathe Scott Pioli. I just expect a lot more out of him.He's a "fraud?"

Chiefnj2
12-19-2010, 06:29 PM
Between this years draft and the horrid performance by the team in preseason, I had completely given up all hope in Pioli and Haley and the Chiefs.

I'm pleasantly surprised, although I'm still not thrilled with round 2 of the draft, and I'm not thrilled with not being able to bring in a Boldin.

jAZ
12-19-2010, 06:35 PM
First, for the record... again...
You don't have to buy in to the full future success of this team in order to concede that you (well, not you in particular, like I said) jumped the gun last year.

I have no idea if you are one of them, because as best as I can tell, you've followed the wind in all directions for 2 years.

Second...
Well, what you don't really understand is that I wasn't one of those people calling for his head last year.

I took a wait and see approach at the beginning of last year. I even defended his selection of Tyson Jackson.

Hahahahahahahaah!

You want credit for taking a wait an see approach before the first season even began!?!

Bwahahahahah!

At the end of the year when it became obvious he had made a bunch of horrible decisions, and when we dumped a bunch of those players before Week 1 this year, I really started to question him.

So far you would appear to be describing yourself as someone who took a wait and see approach before the 1st game was even played, and then jumped the gun after the 1st season.

Had you really taken a wait and see approach, you'd have waited until some time during our 2nd season. 2 full draft seasons, 1+ full offseason, 1+ full season. Room for learning on the job and demonstrating the ability to grow.

Had we been at the same point this far into the 2nd season where people started getting pissed last season, there'd be room to start worrying. Prior to that, and particularly at any point before this season started, it's jumping the gun.

Sweet Daddy Hate
12-19-2010, 06:42 PM
I'm going to start a thread entitled, "Is it time for the 'told you-so' crowd to shut the fuck up?

Yes. I think that would be lovely!


As a fan, I will hate when I damned well feel like hating and give praise when I feel like doing that.

Don't like it? Too fucking bad.

Count Zarth
12-19-2010, 06:50 PM
Had you really taken a wait and see approach, you'd have waited until some time during our 2nd season. 2 full draft seasons, 1+ full offseason, 1+ full season. Room for learning on the job and demonstrating the ability to grow.


What?

Pioli shouldn't have to learn on the job or need to demonstrate an ability to grow.

He's not a rookie. He was the executive of the decade.

He's supposed to be nailing personnel decisions left and right.

I don't see a problem with being disappointed in the guy after it was clear his first year was an abortion, nor do I see a problem with sticking to the idea that he has a lot to prove after he failed to address the front seven this offseason.

Anyone who proclaims him a failure at this point is definitely jumping the gun. I don't think I'm doing that by saying I'm disappointed in what he's produced thus far, and reiterating my desire to see him prove something.

Most people here are going to be firmly in the guy's corner if we field a winning team next year. If he doesn't make the right personnel decisions this offseason it's not going to happen. Why? Because his first two years have been lacking. He can't get away with anything less than stellar at this point, because the competition going forward is going to be tougher.

Bearcat
12-19-2010, 06:51 PM
I'm going to start a thread entitled, "Is it time for the 'told you-so' crowd to shut the **** up?

Yes. I think that would be lovely!


As a fan, I will hate when I damned well feel like hating and give praise when I feel like doing that.

Don't like it? Too ****ing bad.

AMEN!

It's ****ing ridiculous... some people seem like they are more concerned about being right or ridiculing someone's 6-month old opinion than what happens on the field.

People really need to get over themselves.

Count Zarth
12-19-2010, 06:53 PM
Hahahahahahahaah!

You want credit for taking a wait an see approach before the first season even began!?!

Bwahahahahah!.

Well, I don't want "credit" for it, but a lot of people were vilifying Pioli before a game had even been played.

Turns out they were right...at least last season.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 06:55 PM
What?

Pioli shouldn't have to learn on the job or need to demonstrate an ability to grow.

He's not a rookie. He was the executive of the decade.

He's supposed to be nailing personnel decisions left and right.

I don't see a problem with being disappointed in the guy after it was clear his first year was an abortion, nor do I see a problem with sticking to the idea that he has a lot to prove after he failed to address the front seven this offseason.

Anyone who proclaims him a failure at this point is definitely jumping the gun. I don't think I'm doing that by saying I'm disappointed in what he's produced thus far, and reiterating my desire to see him prove something.

Most people here are going to be firmly in the guy's corner if we field a winning team next year. If he doesn't make the right personnel decisions this offseason it's not going to happen. Why? Because his first two years have been lacking. He can't get away with anything less than stellar at this point, because the competition going forward is going to be tougher.

Saying the second year has been lacking is beyond ridiculous. This team is significantly improved from last season, even if they're not there yet. Yet you continue to hammer this point in. Moeaki, Lilja, Berry, Kendrick Lewis, Shaun Smith. These are very good players and long-term answers. Arenas has been a terrific role player in the slot. Wiegmann and Thomas Jones have been valuable short-term additions. McCluster is a wait and see. Not to mention bringing in Weis and Crennel, which are looking like very good decisions.

Not bad considering that this entire offseason was built through the draft and bargain-basement free agency moves.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 06:58 PM
AMEN!

It's ****ing ridiculous... some people seem like they are more concerned about being right or ridiculing someone's 6-month old opinion than what happens on the field.

People really need to get over themselves.

In complete fairness, it works both ways. When things weren't going well, there were plenty of critics willing to take a dig based on anything that resembled support for the way the Chiefs were running the team.

Count Zarth
12-19-2010, 07:01 PM
Saying the second year has been lacking is beyond ridiculous.

We entered the year needing major upgrades in the front seven and at wide receiver.

Guess what?

We still need all of that shit.

Saul Good
12-19-2010, 07:54 PM
Well, I don't want "credit" for it, but a lot of people were vilifying Pioli before a game had even been played.

Turns out they were right...at least last season.

You were totally right. We didn't win the Super Bowl last year.

Saul Good
12-19-2010, 07:55 PM
We entered the year needing major upgrades in the front seven and at wide receiver.

Guess what?

We still need all of that shit.

You are totally right. We didn't address every area of need with a high-quality, long-term solution.

Pitt Gorilla
12-19-2010, 08:00 PM
AMEN!

It's ****ing ridiculous... some people seem like they are more concerned about being right or ridiculing someone's 6-month old opinion than what happens on the field.

People really need to get over themselves.I think it depends on what that opinion was. If it was a long-term opinion (cut Cassel now! or somesuch stupid shit), they should be ridiculed. If someone noted "Cassel sucks today", then I agree.

Sweet Daddy Hate
12-19-2010, 08:06 PM
I think it depends on what that opinion was. If it was a long-term opinion (cut Cassel now! or somesuch stupid shit), they should be ridiculed. If someone noted "Cassel sucks today", then I agree.


Cassel sucked today?

Today was great for him; fuck the stat line, play to win the game!

Pitt Gorilla
12-19-2010, 08:07 PM
Cassel sucked today?

Today was great for him; **** the stat line, play to win the game!Um, no.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 08:12 PM
We entered the year needing major upgrades in the front seven and at wide receiver.

Guess what?

We still need all of that shit.

And they ended up significantly upgrading the secondary, offensive line, bringing in a terrific downfield threat/blocker in Moeaki, bringing in a solid RB to keep Charles fresh, and bringing in some young guys with potential future upside in Asamoah and McCluster.

But by all means, the only measure of success for 2010 shouldn't be significant improvement. It should only be based on how we fill a few key positions.

-King-
12-19-2010, 08:18 PM
AMEN!

It's ****ing ridiculous... some people seem like they are more concerned about being right or ridiculing someone's 6-month old opinion than what happens on the field.

People really need to get over themselves.


Why the fuck not? Whats wrong with being happy that you're right? Especially if you're right about the team being good. Add to the fact that the people who are right right now were insulted up and down the message board since Pioli was hired, I think they deserve the right to gloat.

If Sanchez or Clausen becomes a great QB, I expect the drafturbators to gloat about it. Nothing wrong with it.

Sweet Daddy Hate
12-19-2010, 08:20 PM
Why the fuck not? Whats wrong with being happy that you're right? Especially if you're right about the team being good. Add to the fact that the people who are right right now were insulted up and down the message board since Pioli was hired, I think they deserve the right to gloat.

If Sanchez or Clausen becomes a great QB, I expect the drafturbators to gloat about it. Nothing wrong with it.

Like kicking Pittsburgh's ass on the road! :D

doomy3
12-19-2010, 08:22 PM
Like kicking Pittsburgh's ass on the road! :D

Yeah, and they even scored an offensive touchdown for the first time in forever! Great day for you as a Jets' fan!!

Count Zarth
12-19-2010, 08:27 PM
You are totally right. We didn't address every area of need with a high-quality, long-term solution.

Well, the fact remains that Pioli has been here for two years now and done precious little to upgrade the front seven.

Lock it up. Championship.

Norman Einstein
12-19-2010, 08:34 PM
Well, the fact remains that Pioli has been here for two years now and done precious little to upgrade the front seven.

Lock it up. Championship.

Dude, why don't you just go out and find a team you can stand behind?

It looks like nothing with the Chiefs will make you happy.

SNR
12-19-2010, 09:59 PM
Incomplete poll. Not enough choices.

Bearcat
12-19-2010, 10:54 PM
Why the **** not? Whats wrong with being happy that you're right? Especially if you're right about the team being good. Add to the fact that the people who are right right now were insulted up and down the message board since Pioli was hired, I think they deserve the right to gloat.


Like I said, some people seem like they are more concerned about being right, or ridiculing someone's 6-month old opinion than what happens on the field. Yeah, it's natural to come back and say "I told you so," and there's nothing wrong with that, really. And yeah, once there's undeniable proof that you're right, I think you deserve to gloat.

However, the game-to-game -- and sometimes play to play -- onslaught of "See, I told you Cassel sucks" & "See, I told you Cassel was good" posts gets really fucking old.

For starters, it's retarded to think you can evaluate a player or a coach or a franchise with long term goals in mind after every play or every game, yet it doesn't stop people from creating I Told You So threads every week. People claim they've watched every single game for the past 40 years, yet they're so fickle, short sighted, and set on proving someone else wrong, they can't spot & analyze trends, much less *gasp* try to see both sides of the argument?

This thread was created the day they went 3-0. So, the "I told you so" moment for Pioli supporters was winning 3 games in a row? That's it? He's cool now? (ftr, I've never been anti-Pioli or anti-Haley). What's the point, right now, of starting an "I told you so about Cassel" thread? There are still plenty of "wait and see" factors... is his chance for future success debatable? Sure. Should anyone be gloating they were right all along about the guy? Right about what, being able to beat the Rams or Seahawks? ...or, oh, what about that one drive against Buffalo. :rolleyes:

jAZ
12-19-2010, 10:58 PM
Were message board fans, not NFL exec's....


That's exactly the point. Failing to recognize that last season (every season really) is the problem a lot of people have. There are so many more pieces to the building a successful franchise that we pretend we know what we are talking about when we don't. No matter how much effort we put into evaluating talent, we have no idea what we are talking about. We are pretending.

So taking seriously any opinions we form about player or team evaluations is ridiculous. Wait and see the results on the field.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2010, 11:04 PM
That's exactly the point. Failing to recognize that last season (every season really) is the problem a lot of people have. There are so many more pieces to the building a successful franchise that we pretend we know what we are talking about when we don't. No matter how much effort we put into evaluating talent, we have no idea what we are talking about. We are pretending.

So taking seriously any opinions we form about player or team evaluations is ridiculous. Wait and see the results on the field.

No one gives a fuck about your opinion. You're a fucking worthless troll at this point.

Go back to the cesspool that is DC.

jAZ
12-19-2010, 11:21 PM
For starters, it's retarded to think you can evaluate a player or a coach or a franchise with long term goals in mind after every play or every game, yet it doesn't stop people from creating I Told You So threads every week. People claim they've watched every single game for the past 40 years, yet they're so fickle, short sighted, and set on proving someone else wrong, they can't spot & analyze trends, much less *gasp* try to see both sides of the argument?

This thread was created the day they went 3-0. So, the "I told you so" moment for Pioli supporters was winning 3 games in a row? That's it? He's cool now? (ftr, I've never been anti-Pioli or anti-Haley). What's the point, right now, of starting an "I told you so about Cassel" thread? There are still plenty of "wait and see" factors... is his chance for future success debatable? Sure. Should anyone be gloating they were right all along about the guy? Right about what, being able to beat the Rams or Seahawks? ...or, oh, what about that one drive against Buffalo. :rolleyes:

It appears that we agree 100% and you are wildly mis-(interpreting or misrepresenting) my point.

From the beginning, I've objected to the same process you are objecting to. People who "claim they've watched every single game for the past 40 years, yet they're so fickle, short sighted, and set on proving someone else wrong, they can't spot & analyze trends, much less *gasp* try to see both sides of the argument".

This isn't a "Pioli is a god, and I've been telling you this all along" thread.

It's more of a...

"you people who form fickle, short sighted, snap decisions are doing it wrong... this game is so much more complicated than fans working day jobs doing other things don't have nearly the time or information to possibly judge any particular decision either way. There are cap factors, personality factors, talent factors, under coaching factors, fit to system factors, value of position factors, phases of implementation factors... and on and on and on... It's incredibly rare to effectively judge all of those factors even when it's your full time, highly paid professional duty. For Joe-fan to ever take their ill-informed opinion seriously is just wildly wrong-headed. Wait for the on-field results to develop. That's what matters."

... thread.

Last year, we won 2x as many games as the season before. This year we doubled our wins again.

That's great progress, but as Clayton points out, we have more waiting to do.

But the process that some people are committed to, which is taking their own football evaluation skills way too seriously... is just wrong headed. It will be that way with this GM and coach... just like it was with Herm and CP.

For the record, and for all these same reasons, I give all of my teams coaches and GM/ADs the time to prove it to me either way. Looking back, I think Pioli was right to hire Haley, but I was willing to give Herm another season with his own guys.

Bacon Cheeseburger
12-19-2010, 11:25 PM
but I was willing to give Herm another season with his own guys.
Dude...Herm was a goddamn idiot.

jAZ
12-19-2010, 11:25 PM
No one gives a fuck about your opinion. You're a fucking worthless troll at this point.

Go back to the cesspool that is DC.

Yeah, you definitely fall into the category of one who takes your own football evaluation skills too seriously.

jAZ
12-19-2010, 11:30 PM
Dude...Herm was a goddamn idiot.

The same idiot who Clayton and others keep crediting our current success to the players he drafted. He's not the coach I would have wanted, but I didn't take my own opinion too seriously when CP picked him... and I took a wait and see approach when he finally (thankfully) pushed us into a youth movement.

If Pioli gave him another season to see what he could do, I'd have understood the thought process. When he made a change, I was fine with that too.

These guys are paid professionals and CP posters are not... for a reason.

L.A. Chieffan
12-19-2010, 11:31 PM
I don't know about u guys but that '09 draft looks like a winner to me

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2010, 11:41 PM
Yeah, you definitely fall into the category of one who takes your own football evaluation skills too seriously.

Yeah, and you definitely fall into the category of a fucking diipshit, one who takes his worth on Chiefsplanet as far too seriously.

No one ever has, nor ever will, give a fuck about you or your "opinion".

Douchelord.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2010, 11:43 PM
I don't know about u guys but that '09 draft looks like a winner to me

ROFL

jAZ
12-19-2010, 11:50 PM
Yeah, and you definitely fall into the category of a fucking diipshit, one who takes his worth on Chiefsplanet as far too seriously.

No one ever has, nor ever will, give a fuck about you or your "opinion".

Douchelord.

My opinion got you to lash out in this thread.

That would be jAZ 1, Dane 0 for anyone keeping score on this one.

Bearcat
12-19-2010, 11:55 PM
It appears that we agree 100% and you are wildly mis-(interpreting or misrepresenting) my point.

...


That all makes sense (well, not the part about Herm, IMO... I think there was ample evidence at that point to show he was never going to get it as a HC), and at least this thread was a look back at 1.75 years and not just a handful of moves or games.

Threads like this could act more like a progress report... it is cool to see how opinions change and it's great to see a coach or player or whoever learn from their mistakes and get better at their job... and it creates better conversation than "OMG did you see that pass, I told you he can lead us to playoff victories!!!"

Count Zarth
12-20-2010, 12:03 AM
My opinion got you to lash out in this thread.

That would be jAZ 1, Dane 0 for anyone keeping score on this one.

Dane lashes out in every thread.

You're not special.

You should be thanking him for the grace which he has bestowed upon your 456th dumb football thread.

jAZ
12-20-2010, 12:14 AM
Dane lashes out in every thread.

You're not special.

You should be thanking him for the grace which he has bestowed upon your 456th dumb football thread.

Hey, if you and Dane are lashing out at my plea for (some) posters to stop taking themselves and their own football opinions too seriously... then it's been a worthwhile effort.

keg in kc
12-20-2010, 12:15 AM
Reacting now would be reacting too soon. Post-season 2011 is when the first grades come in from me.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 12:21 AM
Reacting now would be reacting too soon. Post-season 2011 is when the first grades come in from me.

Yeah, well, you're just a rational human being.

Not fair.

jAZ
12-20-2010, 12:22 AM
Reacting now would be reacting too soon. Post-season 2011 is when the first grades come in from me.

Last year, I was saying that we needed to wait until at least this time this year to see. Well, we've seen continued progress, so up go the expectations... and out goes the timeline.

jAZ
12-20-2010, 12:23 AM
Yeah, well, you're just a rational human being.

Not fair.

I'll take that as a compliment. See was that so difficult? :p

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 12:35 AM
Last year, I was saying that we needed to wait until at least this time this year to see. Well, we've seen continued progress, so up go the expectations... and out goes the timeline.

The Chiefs under Pioli have made more than 40 roster moves since taking over a 2 win team.

Outside of a few picks from the 2010 draft, what has Pioli done that has affected what happens on the field each Sunday? TJ and Lilja were nice, but they hardly offset his failures in 2009.

Details.

jAZ
12-20-2010, 12:52 AM
The Chiefs under Pioli have made more than 40 roster moves since taking over a 2 win team.

Outside of a few picks from the 2010 draft, what has Pioli done that has affected what happens on the field each Sunday? TJ and Lilja were nice, but they hardly offset his failures in 2009.

Details.

He hired a young head coach who's grown over the last 2 seasons.

He hired 2 coordinators that have vastly improved the performance of this team.

He signed Jammal Charles to a 5 year, $32M contract extension.

He may very well have passed up drafting a high-risk, project QB in the 1st round in favor of a far more proven, project QB and a starting LB/locker room leader in the 2nd.

He put together an organization that took a 2 win team, made it a 4 win team, and then a (so far) 9 win team.

He's ultimately responsible for the success and failure of everything this team has done.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 01:00 AM
He hired a young head coach who's grown over the last 2 seasons.

He hired 2 coordinators that have vastly improved the performance of this team.

He signed Jammal Charles to a 5 year, $32M contract extension.

He may very well have passed up drafting a high-risk, project QB in the 1st round in favor of a far more proven, project QB and a starting LB/locker room leader in the 2nd.

He put together an organization that took a 2 win team, made it a 4 win team, and then a (so far) 9 win team.

He's ultimately responsible for the success and failure of everything this team has done.

LMAO

You're a fucking idiot.

Go back to DC because you've done the requisite football forum posts to keep your membership.

JFC.

ROFL

Count Zarth
12-20-2010, 01:03 AM
He hired a young head coach who's grown over the last 2 seasons.

He hired 2 coordinators that have vastly improved the performance of this team.

He signed Jammal Charles to a 5 year, $32M contract extension.

He may very well have passed up drafting a high-risk, project QB in the 1st round in favor of a far more proven, project QB and a starting LB/locker room leader in the 2nd.

He put together an organization that took a 2 win team, made it a 4 win team, and then a (so far) 9 win team.

He's ultimately responsible for the success and failure of everything this team has done.

And Pioli himself will tell you the Chiefs haven't done shit yet.

If he's not gonna lick his own balls, I sure as hell ain't gonna do it.

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 01:03 AM
Pioli's 2010 draft class was a success, looks like he brought in a good QB, hired some of the best coaches in the league. Most importantly he's turned a 2 win team into a playoff contending team in 2 years. Nobody thought that was possible.

jAZ
12-20-2010, 01:11 AM
And Pioli himself will tell you the Chiefs haven't done shit yet.

If he's not gonna lick his own balls, I sure as hell ain't gonna do it.

At this point, you are deliberately twisting this into an argument that it isn't, just so you can avoid conceding anything. You appear to be trying to lick your own balls.

HoneyBadger
12-20-2010, 01:11 AM
LMAO

You're a ****ing idiot.

Go back to DC because you've done the requisite football forum posts to keep your membership.

JFC.

ROFL

How does that make him an idiot? He was just stating what has taken place. Temper, temper.

GordonGekko
12-20-2010, 01:13 AM
There were a whole lot of people who lost patience with Scott Pioli starting after the hiring of Todd Haley and the 1st pick in the 2009 draft.

The Haley Hire sucked.
The Tyson Jackson pick sucked.
The Cassel/Vrabel trade sucked.
The whole 2009 Draft sucked.
Tamba Hali sucks.
The Dexter McCluster pick sucked.
The Tony Moeaki pick sucked.
The moves on the OL sucked.
The majority of the 2010 draft sucked.
Playing Thomas Jones so much sucks.

What else am I missing?

My Grade thus far is a B+, not quite an A, cause we were smoked in a couple games by divisional rivals which is unacceptable. But the rundown thus far has been supremely positive. We are knocking on the door of a division championship. Sure, some of the draft picks (namely the TJ pick) have been ridiculous reaches, and it makes you wonder had we found a true playmaker for the 3rd overall pick in the 2009 draft, just where we would be as a team right now? 9-5 though is nothing to complain about and is really solid considering the past few years we were a bottom five team.

And Jim Rome said it best when he said the NFL is much better off when KC is a legit football team and I definitely agree.

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 01:16 AM
Crennel & Weis: Who coached up DJ, Dorsey, Cassel,Bowe


Succop
Belcher
Berry
Moeaki
Lewis
Lilja
Jones


Combined with the foundation that was set in 2008 those are a great complement of players. What am I missing?

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 01:24 AM
Crennel & Weis: Who coached up DJ, Dorsey, Cassel,Bowe


Succop
Belcher
Berry
Moeaki
Lewis
Lilja
Jones


Combined with the foundation that was set in 2008 those are a great complement of players. What am I missing?

Bowe was a 1,000 yard reciever before Haley arrived.

Engram, Thomas, Goff, Wade, Ryan and several others were brought in (as was Pendergast), before the draft that brought them Jackson, Magee, Washington, Brown and O'Connell. Let's not even get into who was on the board at the time those selections were made.

Succop is and was irrelevant. Connor Barth was solid and continues to be solid in Tampa Bay. While he's done reasonably well, this pick could have been used elsewhere.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:26 AM
well my rep comments from even Dane supporters paints the picture of Dane lately...

no one knows what the fuck is up with the guy...

he's angrier than anyone and tries picking a fight with everyone...dude just made a pretty solid post about Pioli and dane told him he was a fucking idiot and to go back to DC...

what a fucking dildo Dane is...seriously

but hey...even his buddies are starting to wonder what the fuck is wrong with him so meh...oh well...maybe he'll mecca himself sooner or later (lets hope sooner)

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 01:27 AM
Bowe was a 1,000 yard reciever before Haley arrived.

Engram, Thomas, Goff, Wade, Ryan and several others were brought in (as was Pendergast), before the draft that brought them Jackson, Magee, Washington, Brown and O'Connell. Let's not even get into who was on the board at the time those selections were made.

Succop is and was irrelevant. Connor Barth was solid and continues to be solid in Tampa Bay. While he's done reasonably well, this pick could have been used elsewhere.

Bowe never had 14 TD's in one season before though you can't argue that he's improved.

Of course there will be some misses look at New Englands history while Pioli was there.

Succop is a better kicker at Arrowhead than Barth was. Barth couldn't hit anything past 40 yards and his kickoffs only went to the 10 yard line.

And you can't ignore the most important # and thats wins.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:29 AM
Dane is just a big joke to me now...

I have fun reading threads he is in...because it's him against the world...

come on Dane...tell me how much I like to rape and drink and sell pizza to teenagers! Anything to make you feel like a man brah!

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 01:30 AM
Bowe never had 14 TD's in one season before though you can't argue that he's improved.

Of course there will be some misses look at New Englands history while Pioli was there.

Succop is a better kicker at Arrowhead than Barth was. Barth couldn't hit anything past 40 yards and his kickoffs only went to the 10 yard line.

And you can't ignore the most important # and thats wins.

Wow, thanks for addressing the kicker and ignoring the other 10 fucking examples.

You and Hootie make a lovely couple. Good luck.

GordonGekko
12-20-2010, 01:31 AM
Bowe never had 14 TD's in one season before though you can't argue that he's improved.

Bowe needs to wake the fuck up, like 3 catches the last three games. WTF?

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 01:31 AM
Bowe needs to wake the fuck up, like 3 catches the last three games. WTF?

Don't confuse him with facts.

Otherwise, he'll whip out his guns.

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 01:32 AM
Wow, thanks for addressing the kicker and ignoring the other 10 ****ing examples.

You and Hootie make a lovely couple. Good luck.

You're crazy. Hootie isn't relevant to the discussion at all. I pointed out even in New England they had misses you don't want to acknowledge that wins are the most important part do you? 13 in 2 seasons compared to 6 the previous.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:33 AM
EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET YOU DANE

CHIEFSPLANET VS. DANE

WE'RE ALL JEALOUS OF YOU DANE...AND YOUR GREAT LIFESTYLE AND YOUR 3.9 WIFE WHO OWNS HOLLYWOOD AND THREE JUMBO JETS

I WANT TO GROW UP TO BE DANE MCCLOUD

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 01:34 AM
Haha at the F list producer trying to get all personal. Don't go all Phil Hartmans wife on us Hollywood.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:36 AM
watch out dude Dane was digging around Lindsey Lohan's trash the other day and found a half bottle of pepper spray and he's not afraid to use it!

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 01:36 AM
You're crazy. Hootie isn't relevant to the discussion at all. I pointed out even in New England they had misses you don't want to acknowledge that wins are the most important part do you? 13 in 2 seasons compared to 6 the previous.

You keep moving the goalposts, Bill.

The Chiefs had an awful 2009 and in spite of that, they're winning in 2010.

But winning in 2010 doesn't absolve them of their failures in 2009. If anything, it just goes to prove how quickly a team can turnaround in the NFL due to the draft and free agency.

Pioli made the right moves, due to prior affiliations, in his 2010 hirings and his past affiliation with Todd Haley.

But none of those moves will ever excuse him of his failure to acquire players in the 2009 draft and offseason that can contribute this year and in future years.

Matt Cassel is the only exception and as I stated earlier, that was pre-destined the day Pioli was hired. Compensation was the only issue.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 01:38 AM
Haha at the F list producer trying to get all personal. Don't go all Phil Hartmans wife on us Hollywood.

Is this the game you want to play?

I was easy on you the first time around but if this is it, it's on.

And for the record, you fucking hillbilly dumbfuck, I am NOT a movie producer.

salame
12-20-2010, 01:38 AM
dane is a producer?

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 01:38 AM
You keep moving the goalposts, Bill.

The Chiefs had an awful 2009 and in spite of that, they're winning in 2010.

But winning in 2010 doesn't absolve them of their failures in 2009. If anything, it just goes to prove how quickly a team can turnaround in the NFL due to the draft and free agency.

Pioli made the right moves, due to prior affiliations, in his 2010 hirings and his past affiliation with Todd Haley.

But none of those moves will ever excuse him of his failure to acquire players in the 2009 draft and offseason that can contribute this year and in future years.

Matt Cassel is the only exception and as I stated earlier, that was pre-destined the day Pioli was hired. Compensation was the only issue.

How am I moving the goal post Dane? I've acknowledged a million times that the 2009 draft sucked despite it sucking Pioli was able to get Succop and Cassel who have both contributed to the team. 2010 was a success how can we ignore the most important result which is Wins and Loses?

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:40 AM
oh Billay can't get personal with Dane, but Dane can get personal with everyone else?

oh, cool

I see

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 01:40 AM
Is this the game you want to play?

I was easy on you the first time around but if this is it, it's on.

And for the record, you ****ing hillbilly dumb****, I am NOT a movie producer.

Dipshit you were the one trying to get personal I merely was debating football.

You grew up in the same town as me what does that make you? :rolleyes:

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:41 AM
let me get this right Dane

you said earlier you think Cassel will be a franchise QB...you said he's turned a corner and you can now see him becoming an elite NFL QB

so if that's the case

we absolutely won the 2009 NFL Draft

regardless of any other pick...

if we scored a franchise QB...

we won

no matter what

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:42 AM
You grew up in the same town as me what does that make you? :rolleyes:

ROFL

pretty funny

Lumpy
12-20-2010, 01:42 AM
well my rep comments from even Dane supporters paints the picture of Dane lately...

no one knows what the **** is up with the guy...

he's angrier than anyone and tries picking a fight with everyone...dude just made a pretty solid post about Pioli and dane told him he was a ****ing idiot and to go back to DC...

what a ****ing dildo Dane is...seriously

but hey...even his buddies are starting to wonder what the **** is wrong with him so meh...oh well...maybe he'll mecca himself sooner or later (lets hope sooner)

Let me make one thing clear, Hootie. I didn't feel it would be a good idea to bump your thread, so I gave you a rep comment in order to give you advice about jewelry. That was my one "be nice to Hootie even though you're a total fucking tools towards me" freebie.

It has nothing to do w/ me getting irritated by Dane and "coming over to the darkside" known as "hootieville". I think both of you are acting extremely childish and trying to flaunt your shit all over the board. Newsflash, most of us really don't give a crap if anyone is making $8k a year or $8m. Get over yourselves. Seriously.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 01:42 AM
dane is a producer?

No.

Billay, however, is a world famous DJ.

My friend DJ AM was a fan, until he died.

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 01:43 AM
No.

Billay, however, is a world famous DJ.

ROFL @ you trying to make this football conversation into some personal beef. Well Dane not everyone can be a socialite like yourself.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:45 AM
I think both of you are acting extremely childish and trying to flaunt your shit all over the board.

oh yeah

I was the childish one for starting a thread asking for a little advice and then being lectured by the great and wise McCloud for not being more like him and for not having a significant other who owns three jumbo jets and ten car dealerships and comes from the family who invented Yahtzee

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 01:46 AM
ROFL @ you trying to make this football conversation into some personal beef. Well Dane not everyone can be a socialite like yourself.

Just joking, Dude.

I know you're not world famous.

Yet.

:D

Just don't end up like Adam.

salame
12-20-2010, 01:46 AM
like music producer?

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 01:47 AM
Just joking, Dude.

I know you're not world famous.

Yet.

:D

Man I can never tell when you're serious or not. I don't have a problem with you at all thats why I'm a little confused where this hostility came from I'm really just trying to talk football. As for the world famous DJ thing not this guy I'm just using this business to pay my bills through school graduating without debt is a huge accomplishment IMO.

Lumpy
12-20-2010, 01:48 AM
oh yeah

I was the childish one for starting a thread asking for a little advice and then being lectured by the great and wise McCloud for not being more like him and for not having a significant other who owns three jumbo jets and ten car dealerships and comes from the family who invented Yahtzee

Hey, damn it, I like Yahtzee!! :grr:

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:49 AM
Man I can never tell when you're serious or not. I don't have a problem with you at all thats why I'm a little confused where this hostility came from I'm really just trying to talk football. As for the world famous DJ thing not this guy I'm just using this business to pay my bills through school graduating without debt is a huge accomplishment IMO.

as long as you're paying $1,000+ per month in rent (minimum) he's ok...

but if you have roommates and don't pay a ton of money and don't have a J Crew wardrobe no sir...no sir...he does not approve

-King-
12-20-2010, 01:49 AM
oh yeah

I was the childish one for starting a thread asking for a little advice and then being lectured by the great and wise McCloud for not being more like him and for not having a significant other who owns three jumbo jets and ten car dealerships and comes from the family who invented YahtzeeROFLROFL

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:51 AM
Hey, damn it, I like Yahtzee!! :grr:

yeah rumor has it the game was ok until dane's wife (a child at the time) invented the 'chance' box...

that turned that game from a family fun night to a million dollar hit!

she acquired her first jet at age 11

Lumpy
12-20-2010, 01:52 AM
as long as you're paying $1,000+ per month in rent (minimum) he's ok...

but if you have roommates and don't pay a ton of money and don't have a J Crew wardrobe no sir...no sir...he does not approve

Ok, do you see this? THIS is what makes you guys go back and forth. Remember when you called me an attention whore and I told you to pretty much go fuck yourself. Yeah, that's how it ends. So kindly tell Dane to fuck off, he will in turn tell you to fuck off... the end.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:52 AM
well this is fun for me...

it's not fun for him...this shit drives him crazy and makes him go to sleep angry

that, in turn, is more fun for me...

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 01:53 AM
Lumpy what college team do you root for?

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:53 AM
and, just because I enjoy being childish...

he started it (once again)

he's an unsolicited hootie bater!

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 01:53 AM
Man I can never tell when you're serious or not. I don't have a problem with you at all thats why I'm a little confused where this hostility came from I'm really just trying to talk football. As for the world famous DJ thing not this guy I'm just using this business to pay my bills through school graduating without debt is a huge accomplishment IMO.

FTR, when have I ever been serious about insulting you?

I defended you and have continued to defend you when it comes to the "guns" pic. I've even sent PM's on your behalf to the mods, without telling you.

I've never, until now, teased you about the DJ gig and I figured my nod to Adam would have let you know that I was joking,

The bottom line is that I get shit and have recieved shit EVERY FUCKING DAY from people for the past 5 or 6 years, or better put, since the day I acknowledged my business, linked pictures to my home and have mentioned a very few of my neighbors (Trust me, I've only revealed less than 1% of who I live by and what I do).

Immature, childish fucks like Hootie have ruined this forum for many, many people, hence many of the old timers resistance to post much any longer.

Don't be a Hootie.

Lumpy
12-20-2010, 01:54 AM
Lumpy what college team do you root for?

ROFL You're not getting any sports talk out of me... now stop it!

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:55 AM
pot meet kettle

dane gets shit because he gives shit

and if I've ruined this forum for some, dane has done the same

pot

kettle

any more sob stories nancy?

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 01:57 AM
pot meet kettle

dane gets shit because he gives shit

and if I've ruined this forum for some, dane has done the same

pot

kettle

any more sob stories nancy?

Bullshit.

Name ONE fucking person that has any fucking relevance, whatsoever, that's stopped posting because of me.

You're a fucking 25 year old tool that lives in a delusional dreamworld.

Just Passin' By
12-20-2010, 01:57 AM
pot meet kettle

dane gets shit because he gives shit

and if I've ruined this forum for some, dane has done the same

pot

kettle

any more sob stories nancy?

Why do you bother with that sack of shit? He's a liar who abuses his CP message board "power" as if he's some sort of tough guy. Put him on ignore. Your CP experience will improve immediately.

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 01:58 AM
FTR, when have I ever been serious about insulting you?

I defended you and have continued to defend you when it comes to the "guns" pic. I've even sent PM's on your behalf to the mods, without telling you.

I've never, until now, teased you about the DJ gig and I figured my nod to Adam would have let you know that I was joking,

The bottom line is that I get shit and have recieved shit EVERY ****ING DAY from people for the past 5 or 6 years, or better put, since the day I acknowledged my business, linked pictures to my home and have mentioned a very few of my neighbors (Trust me, I've only revealed less than 1% of who I live by and what I do).

Immature, childish ****s like Hootie have ruined this forum for many, many people, hence many of the old timers resistance to post much any longer.

Don't be a Hootie.

Sorry I couldn't tell. I didn't know DJ AM personally or anything I know a lot of people in the business respected him others not so much.

I don't think I was around when you linked all those pictures and such but as far as you & I go we're cool IMO

I'm not trying to be Hootie i've actually seen the quality of the board go down so I'm trying to keep the shit flinging to a minimal.

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 01:59 AM
ROFL You're not getting any sports talk out of me... now stop it!

Just mention a color. We'll play the color game.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 01:59 AM
Bullshit.

Name ONE ****ing person that has any ****ing relevance, whatsoever, that's stopped posting because of me.

You're a ****ing 25 year old tool that lives in a delusional dreamworld.

Bullshit.

Name ONE ****ing person that has any ****ing relevance, whatsoever, that's stopped posting because of me (other than THE MAQ, and that's just because he was tired of me always being right)...

You're a ****ing 45 year old tool that lives in a delusional dreamworld (with a wife that owns 9 jumbo jets).

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 02:00 AM
Why do you bother with that sack of shit? He's a liar who abuses his CP message board "power" as if he's some sort of tough guy. Put him on ignore. Your CP experience will improve immediately.

dude he cracks me up

I have fun with all of his attacks

I make fun of myself for my jobs...it's funny seeing all of his inferiority complexes come out time and time again...

right now I'm restless so this is at least keeping me entertained

Lumpy
12-20-2010, 02:00 AM
Just mention a color. We'll play the color game.

ROFL

I'll give you a hint, I'm not a Husker fan.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 02:01 AM
ROFL

I'll give you a hint, I'm not a Husker fan.

THE Ohio State

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2010, 02:02 AM
Sorry I couldn't tell. I didn't know DJ AM personally or anything I know a lot of people in the business respected him others not so much.

I don't think I was around when you linked all those pictures and such but as far as you & I go we're cool IMO

I'm not trying to be Hootie i've actually seen the quality of the board go down so I'm trying to keep the shit flinging to a minimal.

You're more than welcome to attack my opinions. As a matter of fact, I welcome it.

But the split-second you cross over into attacking me personally, you've crossed the line.

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 02:02 AM
ROFL

I'll give you a hint, I'm not a Husker fan.

Let the name calling begin.

salame
12-20-2010, 02:02 AM
I wish I had 9 jumbo jets

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 02:04 AM
But the split-second you cross over into attacking me personally, you've crossed the line.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

but you can do it to me on a daily basis??

omg

this is hysterical

I love it!

are you like 5'8"? please tell me you're not short

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 02:04 AM
I wish I had 9 jumbo jets

well help your parents invent something like Yahtzee and you'll be on your way

Lumpy
12-20-2010, 02:04 AM
Let the name calling begin.

If it makes you feel better, I think Pelini is fuggin' hot! YUM!!

:Lin:

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 02:05 AM
If it makes you feel better, I think Pioli is fuggin' hot! YUM!!

:Lin:

When Gonzo saw my guns pic posted was he jealous? Do you think they are hawt?

Lumpy
12-20-2010, 02:10 AM
When Gonzo saw my guns pic posted was he jealous? Do you think they are hawt?

Do me a solid and delete my quote, for I put Pioli instead of Pelini. That's what I get for wanting to read a thread about Pioli and talking Huskers. Totally ruined the joke. :(

What gun pics? Um, I wouldn't think he would be as Gonzo is pretty well built and has some nice lookin' guns himself.

Are ya drunk?

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 02:13 AM
Do me a solid and delete my quote, for I put Pioli instead of Pelini. That's what I get for wanting to read a thread about Pioli and talking Huskers. Totally ruined the joke. :(

What gun pics? Um, I wouldn't think he would be as Gonzo is pretty well built and has some nice lookin' guns himself.

Are ya drunk?

Maybe. My friend from the army is back visiting.

I was just trying to lighten the mood around here/ fail

Lumpy
12-20-2010, 02:18 AM
Maybe. My friend from the army is back visiting.

I was just trying to lighten the mood around here/ fail

Well, I think you're on your own for trying to lighten the mood. I need to go to bed. Later!


Dane and Hootie: Chill the fuck out. Talk football or talk bewbies. You guys are going to start getting anxiety attacks.

-King-
12-20-2010, 02:50 AM
You're more than welcome to attack my opinions. As a matter of fact, I welcome it.

But the split-second you cross over into attacking me personally, you've crossed the line.

What world do you live in? You are the most ironic person on this board. You insult people all day, and then have a problem with people insulting you back. Do you ever get tired of being such a hypocrite?

Norman Einstein
12-20-2010, 04:26 AM
No one gives a **** about your opinion. You're a ****ing worthless troll at this point.

Go back to the cesspool that is DC.

Why pick on jaz, there are so many other posters you can hate on an equal basis, and none of them give a shit about your self regarded status.

BTW ... if you are so ******* well off, why do you spend time here? I honestly doubt your story is anything but fantasy. Get a life.

Norman Einstein
12-20-2010, 04:28 AM
What world do you live in? You are the most ironic person on this board. You insult people all day, and then have a problem with people insulting you back. Do you ever get tired of being such a hypocrite?

He is the most insecure hypocrite around. I'd just ignore him/her/it and move on.

Sweet Daddy Hate
12-20-2010, 11:14 AM
Yeah, and they even scored an offensive touchdown for the first time in forever! Great day for you as a Jets' fan!!

It knocked the Four Casselmen off their high horses and face-first in to a pile of STFU Manure:

Mission Accomplished!

Zeke
12-20-2010, 11:22 AM
this forum is f*ing awesome.

Omaha
12-20-2010, 11:30 AM
Reacting now would be reacting too soon. Post-season 2011 is when the first grades come in from me.

Bingo! The only thing that I thought was clear from day 1 was that the "In Pioli we trust" people were annoying.

doomy3
12-20-2010, 01:16 PM
It knocked the Four Casselmen off their high horses and face-first in to a pile of STFU Manure:

Mission Accomplished!

:spock:

Rausch
12-20-2010, 01:17 PM
Big believer in Pioli, small-little to no believer in Haley...

Count Zarth
12-20-2010, 01:18 PM
Big believer in Pioli, small-little to no believer in Haley...

I think you have it backwards.

Haley's has made chicken salad with chicken shit like Dexter McGimmick and Tyson Chicken.

Sweet Daddy Hate
12-20-2010, 02:39 PM
I think you have it backwards.

Haley's has made chicken salad with chicken shit like Dexter McGimmick and Tyson Chicken.

Yep. Though I disagree with you on DMac, WAY more props to Haley.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 02:41 PM
people crack me up

Haley changed that entire game by going for it on 4th and 1 in KC territory...

Battle picked it up...and we were a changed team from that point.

That's balls...and maybe 1 other coach in the NFL makes that decision and doesn't punt.

and had we got stuffed it would have been an "end of the world!" call on this site.

OnTheWarpath58
12-20-2010, 02:51 PM
people crack me up

Haley changed that entire game by going for it on 4th and 1 in KC territory...

Battle picked it up...and we were a changed team from that point.

That's balls...and maybe 1 other coach in the NFL makes that decision and doesn't punt.

and had we got stuffed it would have been an "end of the world!" call on this site.

No problem here with that call.

My issue is why it got to be 4th down to begin with.

Throwing on 3rd and 1 is getting out of control. You have the #1 ranked rushing offense in the league. You don't seem to have much problem running the ball on 4th and short, when the whole world knows you're running.

Run on 3rd down and stay out of that situation.

You trust the team on 4th down, but not on 3rd?

Odd.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 02:54 PM
No problem here with that call.

My issue is why it got to be 4th down to begin with.

Throwing on 3rd and 1 is getting out of control. You have the #1 ranked rushing offense in the league. You don't seem to have much problem running the ball on 4th and short, when the whole world knows you're running.

Run on 3rd down and stay out of that situation.

well to me that's not the point

and if they go into that 3rd and 1 saying "ok, we're going for it on 4th down no matter what" I see no issues with taking a risk on 3rd and 1...

Despite being a running team, we are extremely unpredictable and that's a credit to the coaching staff...

we actually used our play-action game to get us out of our funk early on...it took a few series to get our run game going...

and 6 games ago we didn't even have a play-action game...

when Cassel is on, we are SCARY...he's been using the pocket so well lately...stepping up, avoiding pressure, making plays on the run...

He's doing stuff I never thought he was capable of...in New England he was getting better and better every week down the stretch too...we're seeing a repeat...hopefully he has a happy ending this time.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 02:57 PM
I have more of a conservative mind...I'm always cheering for Jamaal draws during the 2 minute drill before halftime...when we were up 14-6 I always cheer for the Vermeil/Priest draws we used to draw up rather than risk making a huge mistake...

so of course when it's 3rd and 1 I think we should be running the ball...but I can't fault the staff for passing or using a play-action...especially when TJ has been only adequate on 3rd and short this year...

and no, I don't want to start the "that's why Jamaal needs more carries" schtick right now...

OnTheWarpath58
12-20-2010, 02:58 PM
well to me that's not the point

and if they go into that 3rd and 1 saying "ok, we're going for it on 4th down no matter what" I see no issues with taking a risk on 3rd and 1...


Guess I'd just prefer to move the chains on 3rd down and not take the risk associated with a 4th down call unless necessary.

They obviously don't have an issue running when the other team knows they're running, see our 4th down running conversions.

JMO.

-King-
12-20-2010, 03:00 PM
Guess I'd just prefer to move the chains on 3rd down and not take the risk associated with a 4th down call unless necessary.

They obviously don't have an issue running when the other team knows they're running, see our 4th down running conversions.

JMO.

Sometimes Weis needs to be drop kicked in his liver for his 3rd down and short decisions. I understand that we don't have a power line, but his calls are beyond ridiculous at times. We had a lot of 3rd and shorts yesterday, we should have run straight up the gut on many of them. Battle could have picked them up, even TJ. Charles might have made a 20+ yard gain out of them.

Count Zarth
12-20-2010, 03:02 PM
Have people forgotten how horrible our running game has been on third and short this year?

We have to keep throwing to keep defenses off balance.

Remember the Raider game? Couldn't run for shit on third and 1. After that Haley said, OK, fuck this, I'm not Herm.

OnTheWarpath58
12-20-2010, 03:04 PM
Have people forgotten how horrible our running game has been on third and short this year?

We have to keep throwing to keep defenses off balance.

Remember the Raider game? Couldn't run for shit on third and 1. After that Haley said, OK, fuck this, I'm not Herm.

IMO, that has more to do with the play calls than anything.

Running fucking sweeps and sprint draws on 3rd and short is retarded.

Pound the fucking rock.

They don't seem to have an issue doing so on 4th and short, when everyone on the field and in the stands KNOWS they are running.

Count Zarth
12-20-2010, 03:08 PM
IMO, that has more to do with the play calls than anything.

Running fucking sweeps and sprint draws on 3rd and short is retarded.


I just remember Wiegmann and Lilja getting blown up. Hell, even Waters, by Seymour.

This line is not good in power situations. And that's part of the reason they're willing to pitch the ball on third and short. Defenses won't expect it, and it suits our talent.

We couldn't punch it in for a TD in the Denver game either on about three runs inside the 2. We put in Shaun Smith because we're desperate.

I know it's frustrating to watch a pass when we need a yard, but ever since that Oakland debacle I really don't have a problem with it.

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2010, 03:11 PM
Have people forgotten how horrible our running game has been on third and short this year?

We have to keep throwing to keep defenses off balance.

Remember the Raider game? Couldn't run for shit on third and 1. After that Haley said, OK, **** this, I'm not Herm.

Thats because Casey Wiegmann sucks vs 3-4 teams.

Just Passin' By
12-20-2010, 03:26 PM
Sometimes Weis needs to be drop kicked in his liver for his 3rd down and short decisions. I understand that we don't have a power line, but his calls are beyond ridiculous at times. We had a lot of 3rd and shorts yesterday, we should have run straight up the gut on many of them. Battle could have picked them up, even TJ. Charles might have made a 20+ yard gain out of them.

Eli Manning has 17 passing attempts on 3rd and 0-2, despite quarterbacking for a ground-n-pound team. Cassel has 21 passing attempts on 3rd and 0-2. It's not as if Weis is going crazy and doing something that's just utterly bizarre.

The problem's been execution. Whether that's the QB, the specific pass call, the o-line, the receivers, or whatever, the problem isn't calling for a pass on its own.

Chiefs 3rd down and 0-2 numbers:

Rush attempts: 21
Pass attempts: 21

Rush yards: 26
Pass yards: 72

Rush yards/per: 1.2
Pass yards/per: 3.4

Rush 1st downs: 10
Pass 1st downs: unavailable on ESPN.com, but only 8 completions

Again, using the Giants, you get first down conversions with 14 of 19 rushes (.737), vs. the Chiefs 10 of 21 (.476). The Chiefs are just not very good on 3rd and short, regardless of whether it's rushing or passing.