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gblowfish
10-17-2010, 05:30 PM
Ten Things About Today's Game

10. I think the important thing today is to keep some perspective. This is a team coming off a 2-14 year, followed by a 4-12 year. We ripped off three straight wins, undefeated in September. Now we are winless in October, the time of year where you either stretch out to a lead in your division, or drop back into the pack. When the season began, just about everyone thought this team would be a seven to eight win team. That is showing to be perhaps an accurate prediction. Nobody expected wins at either Indy last week or in Houston today. With the hot start, we hoped we might steal one of the two. Turns out, the Chiefs played better than expected in both games, but as usual, there's no NFL stat for close, just wins and losses. At 3-2 we're about where most people thought we'd be, maybe one game better. It's getting harder to count the San Diego win as an "upset" since they lost to St. Louis today. But the general consensus is that hardest part of our schedule is now over, if that is any consolation.

9. Goats turn into heroes, heroes to goats depending on what week it is. Last week's goat, Dwayne Bowe, could have been today's hero. Bowe had 108 yards receiving and two TDs today. He also made tough catches in traffic, caught a critical ball off the turf to sustain an important drive, and made key blocks to spring Charles and Jones on several of their runs for yardage. On other plays, Bowe looked lost, and lined up in the wrong spot several times. You can't blame this week on Bowe. He could have won the game with one more catch if Ca$$el sees him open on single coverage just one more time. See attached photo, more on that later.

8. Even though Ca$$el played better this week, he still bears some blame in this loss. His accuracy and reads are still woeful at times. He has thrown into double to triple coverage often, thrown behind guys, and thrown over guys. Nine different receivers had catches today, and that's decent ball distribution. He threw for 201 yards and three TDs, by far his best production this season. Still, it wasn't enough. At crunch time he still could not come through, more on that later. I'm going to talk a lot about the last three minutes of this game, which is what today all came down to.

7. The offensive line giveth, the offensive line taketh away. We had two backs rush for over 90 yards today, had no fumbles, no picks and still lost. How does that happen? The good news is, the line did an excellent job run blocking against one of the top run stopping defenses in the NFL. The bad news is, when crunch time came, they could not protect Ca$$el long enough to find his receivers. Two cases in point. I studied the crucial 3rd and 2 play with 2:30 left in the game. Ca$$el ends up overthrowing a double covered Moeaki. That stops the clock. Considering Houston won the game with :30 left in the game, that's bad. More on this later. Back to the line: On this play, Brandon Albert gets beat like a drum on an inside swim move by the Defensive End, who forces Ca$$el to throw the ball to the first guy he sees break past the first down markers, who was Moeaki. Copper stayed to block to pick up the blitz, because Cox floods out in the right flat, covered. Houston started with nine guys in the box (see attached photo). What Ca$$el doesn't see is Bowe streaking across the right side with two steps on a corner trailing him, with no safety help, because the safety is on Moeaki. If Ca$$el gets one more second to throw, he hits Bowe, -assuming the throw is there and Bowe actually catches it- and then it's the two minute warning and we run the clock down. I'll continue this thought on point six:

6. We get the ball back around the 35 yard line with around :20 left. OK, that's tough needing four points -not three points like that idiot Gus Johnson kept saying on the CBS broadcast (what a douche)-, Ca$$el's first pass is way behind Bowe, incomplete. Next pass Jeremy Horne is wide open on a crossing route downfield, but Ca$$el throws the ball ten feet over his head. Then on the final gasp play, Richardson gets beat like a drum, his man runs Ca$$el down, and game over. Here's a critical difference in the last three minutes of the game: Shaub's line gives him time to throw, and find his second or third receiver in the pattern. He had enough time on the throw to Andre Johnson to let Johnson make a move, lose Berry, come back for the football and catch it between the trailing Berry and a closing Brandon Carr. When it comes to crunch time for our offensive line, they get beat, get Ca$$el rushed, and Ca$$el cannot perform when rushed. He can barely hit receivers when he's given time. This, I think, is a big chunk in the formula between winning and losing today.

5. Another big chunk in today's losing formula: Chiefs defense took a big step backwards today. The ugly truth is, this team had a ten point lead with seven minutes left and couldn't hold it. In the final seven minutes, they gave up around a dozen plays of ten yards or more. That's the infamous "chunks" of yardage that people talk about. They lost Houston's tight end in the fourth quarter, and this is the first game that the opposition's tight end had really hurt our defense. Was Kendrick Lewis' absence that big of a deal? "The Donald" -Donald Washington- was not very good today. He gave up several passes, and missed several tackles. His missed tackle was the coup de gras on the 38 yard TD run by Derrek Ward in the 3rd Quarter. Go back and watch that play. Seven guys -seven- miss the tackle on that play. It reminded me of Herm's defenses when Pollard and Page were whiffing on guys left and right. Pass rush disappeared in the second half, although Hali was being held today more than a Johnson around Shaun Smith. Which brings us to "officiating."

4. It shouldn't come down to a bad call losing a game for you. I'm talking about the call on Flowers v. Johnson with 1:48 left in the game -picture attached. I'm sure we'll get a lovely, well written letter on official league stationary on Monday telling us how sincerely sorry they are that abortion of a call was made against us at such an unfortunate time. If we get that call, you push Houston back another ten yards, and that might mean the difference between winning and losing. Johnson's been a multiple All-Pro and ten year veteran. Flowers is still a relatively new player. Who gets the breaks during a critical time like this? Home cooking gets it. If that play is in Arrowhead, the call goes the other way. Flowers was right to be hot. Still even after that play, we had our chances to hold the fort and couldn't do it. It's called put up or shut up time. Earlier in the game Pollard kept a drive alive for us with a stupid late hit on Jones going out of bounds. This time, the ref's raped us. But it never should have been this close or come down to this call being so crucial. Fault to the defense.

3. We got beat on special teams again today. Pooch kicks after scoring drives, then the poocher gives up field position back to the forty? What the hell is that? We're not blocking nearly as effectively on kicks and punts now as we did earlier in the year. Arenas and McCluster have both been held in check. Other teams have adjusted, we need to work harder to give these guys a chance to break something. There's no reason our return teams shouldn't be in the top three or four in the league. We have the talent, just need the blocking.

2. Coaching? In Coach Haley's press conference, he's polishing the turd again. We're making "progress" and "the team is hurting after this one." Hey, a loss is a loss, THERE'S NO MORAL VICTORIES. And btw, your coaching record is now is 7-14. You lose twice as much as you win. You don't get to stay a head coach very long with a track record like that. Blowing a ten point lead with seven minutes left is not progress, that's Herm Edwards. And back to the critical third and two play: If you throw the ball and it's incomplete, the clock stops, which is what happened. Jones had been running effectively the whole fourth quarter. We got Jones to replace LJ so we would have a back that can pound it in short yardage. If you recall, Jones won the Cleveland game for us by making a fourth and one by an inch. If you're worried about eight or nine guys in the box, roll Ca$$el out, give him a run-pass option, and if the pass isn't there, let him run for it. Even if he doesn't make it, the clock either runs to the two minute warning, or Houston burns a time out to stop it. Considering the final TD was scored with :30 left, clock management again comes home to roost and bite us in the ass. That's coaching. That's a fail.

1. Everybody's been saying "Well, the road will get easier from here on out." Don't bet on it. The one thing about this league is, nobody know who's going to beat who and when. Who could imagine that the Rams would beat San Diego today, or the Cardinals would beat the Saints last week? As Elmer Fudd would say: "There's something vewwy vewwy screwwy going on awound here...." The Chiefs record against Jacksonville has not been very good, both in Florida and at Arrowhead. Let's hope we can re-group on defense, block during critical moments to find the guy who's open, and get a decent call from a ref next week. 4-2 would look pretty good in the AFC West right about now.

boogblaster
10-17-2010, 05:40 PM
yea we played a good blocking team today with a decent QB ...
our defense took a step backwards ...

Extra Point
10-17-2010, 05:44 PM
Thanks for the nice summary. Don't forget to buy donuts with holes for the employees, reminiscent of the timeout and delay void in Cassel's mind, the 3rd-and-2 void in Weis' mind to have Jones run the ball, Romeo's hole in his head for 4th qtr soft coverage behind the line of scrimmage and forgetting that Hali can drop in coverage, too.

Poochie (kick), go away!

Haley's void: none. He prepared the team, best he could. He could have used his TO's better, though. That 3rd and 2, I hope that wasn't his call!

KC kid
10-17-2010, 05:47 PM
eh, not feelin this one at all

EyePod
10-17-2010, 05:48 PM
If Cassel tossed the ball to Charles he had the first down EASILY. Like really easily...

Extra Point
10-17-2010, 05:51 PM
Thanks for the nice summary. Don't forget to buy donuts with holes for the employees, reminiscent of the timeout and delay void in Cassel's mind, the 3rd-and-2 void in Weis' mind to have Jones run the ball, Romeo's hole in his head for 4th qtr soft coverage behind the line of scrimmage and forgetting that Hali can drop in coverage, too.

Poochie (kick), go away!

Haley's void: he could have used his TO's better. That 3rd and 2, I hope that wasn't his call!

Frazod
10-17-2010, 05:59 PM
Two things:

1. You left out the part about Weis being a retard.

2. Thing No. 1 and Thing No. 10 seem to sort of contradict each other....

Count Zarth
10-17-2010, 06:02 PM
Beat me to the still, George.

Saw Bowe open on the NFL.com replay, but not from that angle.

gblowfish
10-17-2010, 06:02 PM
Two things:

1. You left out the part about Weis being a retard.

2. Thing No. 1 and Thing No. 10 seem to sort of contradict each other....

On #2 I can understand why you would say that. I mean more of "perspective on where we are now" and "apprehension on where we go from here."

I forgot to mention, the Fox broadcast was synch'ed up this week with the TV broadcast. I was listening on my earphones, and when the game first started, they put in a delay, because they repeated a sentence that Mitch and Lenny said, and from that point on, it was matched perfectly. So they do have the ability at the Fox to match it up to the local TV. They must have gotten some comments about it, and wanted to fix it. Nice job with that today.

Wyndex
10-17-2010, 06:10 PM
you deliver as usual, nice pics as well

Mr. Laz
10-17-2010, 06:20 PM
sooooooooooo ... offensive line protected well until crunch time at which point Cassel play took a dive along with the protection.

The Bad Guy
10-17-2010, 06:22 PM
Two things:

1. You left out the part about Weis being a retard.

2. Thing No. 1 and Thing No. 10 seem to sort of contradict each other....

You seem to have a Reerun vendetta against Weis.

He called an outstanding game sans one play.

gblowfish
10-17-2010, 06:23 PM
sooooooooooo ... offensive line protected well until crunch time at which point Cassel play took a dive along with the protection.

Shaub definitely got more time to throw than Cassel in the second half. That's not to say Cassel didn't miss some open guys. He did. If we make that third and two play in the last three minutes, we might be able to ice the game with one more first down after that.

Coach Haley's been "Mr Riverboat Gambler." If we would have run, and say, only made one yard, and had fourth and one, he might have gone for it like he did in Cleveland.

The Bad Guy
10-17-2010, 06:27 PM
2. Coaching? In Coach Haley's press conference, he's polishing the turd again. We're making "progress" and "the team is hurting after this one." Hey, a loss is a loss, THERE'S NO MORAL VICTORIES. And btw, your coaching record is now is 7-14. You lose twice as much as you win. You don't get to stay a head coach very long with a track record like that. Blowing a ten point lead with seven minutes left is not progress, that's Herm Edwards. And back to the critical third and two play: If you throw the ball and it's incomplete, the clock stops, which is what happened. Jones had been running effectively the whole fourth quarter. We got Jones to replace LJ so we would have a back that can pound it in short yardage. If you recall, Jones won the Cleveland game for us by making a fourth and one by an inch. If you're worried about eight or nine guys in the box, roll Ca$$el out, give him a run-pass option, and if the pass isn't there, let him run for it. Even if he doesn't make it, the clock either runs to the two minute warning, or Houston burns a time out to stop it. Considering the final TD was scored with :30 left, clock management again comes home to roost and bite us in the ass. That's coaching. That's a fail.


Yes, it's a smart move running out Haley because he has a 7-14 record. That's how you end up like the Raiders by firing young coaches who appear to have the team headed in the right direction.

The playcall was awful. That doesn't mean I'm down on this staff. Herm Edwards would have never scored 31 on the road.

Maybe Haley was right flipping you off?

Deberg_1990
10-17-2010, 06:33 PM
Im not sure if the Texans offensive line is really that good, or our pass rush is really that bad.

Either way, hats off to them. Schaub and his crew made the plays when they had to and we didnt.

BigRock
10-17-2010, 06:38 PM
Beat me to the still, George.

Saw Bowe open on the NFL.com replay, but not from that angle.

Bowe being open would be worth discussing if Cassel had a chance to look for another receiver. Albert's whiff on that play was as bad as BRich's on the final one.

Count Zarth
10-17-2010, 06:41 PM
Bowe is indeed open. And Cassel had time to look all the way from one side of the field to the other on this play. He failed to locate Bowe when he turned his head. He was locked in on Moeaki.

http://i53.tinypic.com/jj349z.jpg

keg in kc
10-17-2010, 06:43 PM
I still think the issue with the kickoffs is having both Arenas and McCluster back there. One of them blocking for the other is basically putting us down a man. That's something we should do occasionally, not every time. Not sure what the issue is when we're kicking off.

And while I understand the logic of wanting to run the ball on 3rd and two, to keep the clock running, the reality is that the play was open. The problem there was execution, not the call. And I have no problem with being aggressive. We converted a lot of 3rd downs during the game throwing the ball. So along the same lines of "why not run it when we're running so well", you could also say "why not throw it when we've been doing that so well on 3rd down, too". Particularly in a situation like that when nobody in the world probably thinks we're going to do it.

And if Cassel completes the pass to his open receiver(s), the game is over and nobody in the world is questioning the call. Again, execution, not call.

Personally I like the aggressive approach. I hope they get more and more aggressive as the season goes on and we completely put the boots to martyocre football for good.

gblowfish
10-17-2010, 06:50 PM
Yes, it's a smart move running out Haley because he has a 7-14 record. That's how you end up like the Raiders by firing young coaches who appear to have the team headed in the right direction.

The playcall was awful. That doesn't mean I'm down on this staff. Herm Edwards would have never scored 31 on the road.

Maybe Haley was right flipping you off?

I'm not "running out Haley." I'm just stating a fact. He has lost twice as much as he has won. And I try not to get too high or low in the aftermath of any game, but he was pretty rosy in his post game comments, saying "how much fun" he's having coaching. OK, that's cool. Just don't bring it up after your second loss in a row and blowing a ten point lead with seven minutes left.

Herm got what he deserved. He got what he got because he lost more than he won. Don't think for a minute Pioli wouldn't whack Haley if he has another 4-12 year. That's unlikely to happen, but right now this team is going in the opposite direction of "good."

And for the record:
I've always said Coach Haley is entitled to his opinion. I don't argue that one bit.







And he says he can't remember, he may have waved.





Let's move on. :banghead:

milkman
10-17-2010, 06:51 PM
Once again, I ask.

How many times did the Chiefs get stuffed running teh ball on third and short today?

How many times did we go for it on 4th down because we got stuffed in those situations?

The play call was not a bad play call given the Chiefs ineffectiveness all day on the ground in those situations.

Sure, the Chiefs ran the ball effectively most of teh day, but the fact remains in almost every short yardage situatianal run, they were stuffed.

As to Cassel and his decision to pass to Moeaki, if he had any ability as a decision maker and to scan the field, even with the DE coming free, he would have had enough time to see Bowe coming open.

He made his decision at the snap, and never looked at any other receiver.

Even given that, a good throw converts.

siberian khatru
10-17-2010, 06:52 PM
Bowe is indeed open. And Cassel had time to look all the way from one side of the field to the other on this play. He failed to locate Bowe when he turned his head. He was locked in on Moeaki.

http://i53.tinypic.com/jj349z.jpg

Just sickening to look at. That's probably the game right there.

And it's something we've seen over and over again with Cassel. He locks in on the first option; he doesn't survey the field to see what's going on. He's a slave to the pen and paper, without having the ability to adjust to reality on the field.

He made some good throws today. But when crunch time came, he fell back on his worst habits. So frustrating.

BTW, that call was better than the execution -- there was a guy WIDE OPEN on it. But how good a call is it, really, if you put the game in the hands of a guy who is limited in his ability to execute it?

That's the question I've been wrestling with.

Thig Lyfe
10-17-2010, 06:53 PM
Yeah, it was painfully clear that Bowe was totally open. But Matt Cassel is a panicky motherfucker.

Thig Lyfe
10-17-2010, 06:56 PM
BTW, that call was better than the execution -- there was a guy WIDE OPEN on it. But how good a call is it, really, if you put the game in the hands of a guy who is limited in his ability to execute it?

That's the question I've been wrestling with.

That's exactly why I ultimately don't like the call. As great as it is to see the Chiefs finally play aggressively, you have to put the game in the hands of your most talented players. Jones and Charles had been unstoppable all game long. Why not give them a chance to win the game?

Thig Lyfe
10-17-2010, 06:58 PM
Once again, I ask.

How many times did the Chiefs get stuffed running teh ball on third and short today?

How many times did we go for it on 4th down because we got stuffed in those situations?

The play call was not a bad play call given the Chiefs ineffectiveness all day on the ground in those situations.

Sure, the Chiefs ran the ball effectively most of teh day, but the fact remains in almost every short yardage situatianal run, they were stuffed.

As to Cassel and his decision to pass to Moeaki, if he had any ability as a decision maker and to scan the field, even with the DE coming free, he would have had enough time to see Bowe coming open.

He made his decision at the snap, and never looked at any other receiver.

Even given that, a good throw converts.

An aggressive run call -- something other than a dive play up the gut -- would have worked. But yeah, that play is a perfect example of how Cassel doesn't have the talent or intelligence to be a real quarterback.

Frazod
10-17-2010, 06:59 PM
That's exactly why I ultimately don't like the call. As great as it is to see the Chiefs finally play aggressively, you have to put the game in the hands of your most talented players. Jones and Charles had been unstoppable all game long. Why not give them a chance to win the game?

It really all comes down to this. Put the game in the hands of your playmakers, and sorry, but that just isn't Cassel.

Passing on that play was insane. It cost us the game. Period. The End.

milkman
10-17-2010, 07:00 PM
Just sickening to look at. That's probably the game right there.

And it's something we've seen over and over again with Cassel. He locks in on the first option; he doesn't survey the field to see what's going on. He's a slave to the pen and paper, without having the ability to adjust to reality on the field.

He made some good throws today. But when crunch time came, he fell back on his worst habits. So frustrating.

BTW, that call was better than the execution -- there was a guy WIDE OPEN on it. But how good a call is it, really, if you put the game in the hands of a guy who is limited in his ability to execute it?

That's the question I've been wrestling with.

The Chiefs had far more success all day when putting the ball in Cassel's hands in short yardage situations than they had when putting teh bal in Charles or Jones hands in those situations.

Coogs
10-17-2010, 07:02 PM
right now this team is going in the opposite direction of "good."

I don't agree. We are 3-2, with two losses to two good teams... and both of those teams required a bit of good fortune to beat us in their house. Jax is comming into Arrowhead on a short work week. Now if we lose that game, I may agree with you, but not this week.

chiefzilla1501
10-17-2010, 07:02 PM
Yeah, it was painfully clear that Bowe was totally open. But Matt Cassel is a panicky mother****er.

Was it really that painfully clear? I've been watching the clip over and over again. A few things I noticed. The first is that Cassel looks at Bowe and doesn't like what he sees. You don't see much, but it looks like the guy covering Bowe has decent coverage. Unless I'm seeing something different, the freeze frame image was taken after Cassel had already committed to Moeaki and the D-back had broken off on his coverage.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010101704/2010/REG6/chiefs@texans/recap/quick-take?module=HP_headlines#tab:watch

There's nothing wrong with Cassel's read there and contrary to what's being said, it was his second read, not his first. The read is fine, he just puts it in a horrible spot. There are a lot of places Cassel can throw that ball to put Moeaki in the position to make plays. And besides, with the game on the line, I'd rather that ball be in Moeaki's hands than Bowe's.

Good read. Horrible throw.

milkman
10-17-2010, 07:02 PM
An aggressive run call -- something other than a dive play up the gut -- would have worked. But yeah, that play is a perfect example of how Cassel doesn't have the talent or intelligence to be a real quarterback.

They went with the horse that brung 'em.

As a fan, I can sit here and say I hate Cassel, and I don't want to put the game in his hands, but the fact is, they had to go with what brung 'em all game long.

Chief_in_Commander
10-17-2010, 07:04 PM
Glad someone else finally saw Bowe open on the third and 2 play, i've been on 2 different threads telling people about that.....Everyone is complaining about Moeaki stopping off his route when the real problem is Cassel making a pre-snap decision

BigRock
10-17-2010, 07:17 PM
Everyone is complaining about Moeaki stopping off his route when the real problem is Cassel making a pre-snap decision

Yes, the problem was Cassel deciding to throw a pass to the guy the play was specifically designed for.

Branden Albert letting a dude RUN RIGHT PAST HIM on the biggest play of the game: irrelevant.

siberian khatru
10-17-2010, 07:17 PM
The Chiefs had far more success all day when putting the ball in Cassel's hands in short yardage situations than they had when putting teh bal in Charles or Jones hands in those situations.

I think that's a fair assessment.

I did a quick review of the play-by-play, and by my count, on plays of 2nd/3rd/4th down and 5 yards or less:

* 3 times we ran a RB and converted
* 4 times we ran a RB and didn't convert
* 4 times Cassel passed and converted
* 2 times Cassel passed and didn't convert (including the infamous late-4th quarter play)
* 1 time Cassel ran and converted
* 1 time we converted via penalty (pass interference on 4th down on opening drive)

Deberg_1990
10-17-2010, 07:20 PM
They went with the horse that brung 'em.

As a fan, I can sit here and say I hate Cassel, and I don't want to put the game in his hands, but the fact is, they had to go with what brung 'em all game long.

I dont have a problem passing on that play, i just didnt like that particular pass play. Seemed like a low percentage throw....

BTW, im not a huge Schuab fan, but the difference between him and Cassel is night and day. Schaub had excellent footwork and pocket awarness when the protection broke down......Cassel has none.

milkman
10-17-2010, 07:22 PM
I dont have a problem passing on that play, i just didnt like that particular pass play. Seemed like a low percentage throw....

BTW, im not a huge Schuab fan, but the difference between him and Cassel is night and day. Schaub had excellent footwork and pocket awarness when the protection broke down......Cassel has none.

That is the biggest problem for Cassel.

Chief_in_Commander
10-17-2010, 07:22 PM
Yes, the problem was Cassel deciding to throw a pass to the guy the play was specifically designed for.

Branden Albert letting a dude RUN RIGHT PAST HIM on the biggest play of the game: irrelevant.

That's fine and I know the play was designed for him but that doesn't mean it HAS to go to him, i'm not sure if you're trying to argue for Cassel throwing it there or not but when Bowe is out on the route he is obviously an option

Coogs
10-17-2010, 07:23 PM
An aggressive run call -- something other than a dive play up the gut -- would have worked. But yeah, that play is a perfect example of how Cassel doesn't have the talent or intelligence to be a real quarterback.

Wildcat formation might have been fun there.

BigRock
10-17-2010, 07:26 PM
That's fine and I know the play was designed for him but that doesn't mean it HAS to go to him, i'm not sure if you're trying to argue for Cassel throwing it there or not but when Bowe is out on the route he is obviously an option

I'm not arguing for anything except people talking about Cassel's throw or Cassel scanning the field, when any talk of that clusterfuck should begin and end with Albert giving us some Roger Dorn OLE~! bullshit.

Like the OP said, if Cassel had one more second, he probably finds Bowe. Or at least gets off a better pass to Moeaki.

ChiefsCountry
10-17-2010, 07:28 PM
I dont have a problem passing on that play, i just didnt like that particular pass play. Seemed like a low percentage throw....

BTW, im not a huge Schuab fan, but the difference between him and Cassel is night and day. Schaub had excellent footwork and pocket awarness when the protection broke down......Cassel has none.

http://work.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7021360&postcount=24
;)

Chief_in_Commander
10-17-2010, 07:30 PM
Yeah, Albert was pathetic on that play but it still seemed Cassel had time to look to Bowe there, that's my point.....I'm not giving Albert a free pass by any means but givin his mistake it seemed like other quarterbacks could of made the play anyway

Chiefshrink
10-17-2010, 07:36 PM
I don't agree. We are 3-2, with two losses to two good teams... and both of those teams required a bit of good fortune to beat us in their house. Jax is comming into Arrowhead on a short work week. Now if we lose that game, I may agree with you, but not this week.

You are absolutely correct Coogs! We will see for sure this next week whether our Chiefs will finally "grow a pair" after this painful loss and a definite "W" that got away and will play both sides of the ball well against the Jags or will they still be "willy nilly":shrug:

Count Zarth
10-17-2010, 07:40 PM
The Chiefs had far more success all day when putting the ball in Cassel's hands in short yardage situations than they had when putting teh bal in Charles or Jones hands in those situations.

NO!!! INSANE!!!!!

HOW DARE THE CHIEFS THROW THE BALL ON THIRD AND SHORT WHEN IT HAD BEEN WORKING ALL DAY!!!!

Bwana
10-17-2010, 07:46 PM
Great read George.

chiefzilla1501
10-17-2010, 08:08 PM
Yeah, Albert was pathetic on that play but it still seemed Cassel had time to look to Bowe there, that's my point.....I'm not giving Albert a free pass by any means but givin his mistake it seemed like other quarterbacks could of made the play anyway

I think the problem is that we're judging open receivers based on really limited tape. Cassel does look right. When he was looking right, when I see the clip, I see Bowe running directly into a D-back and Bowe makes a cut underneath that guy. When he makes that cut, the D-back is still within range. So to me, Cassel looked at Bowe and gave him plenty of time to get open. I don't think it was the right read and I think people are giving Cassel way too tough a time on that.

I'm guessing Bowe doesn't get open until after Cassel has committed to Moeaki. And you can't fault Cassel, at that point, for throwing to Moeaki. a) he was open. b) he doesn't have time to look at Bowe yet again.

Cassel made the right read. The problem was he shit his pants when Mario Williams came after him instead of stepping into his throw. Moeaki was plenty open enough to make that play.

cabletech94
10-17-2010, 08:23 PM
You are absolutely correct Coogs! We will see for sure this next week whether our Chiefs will finally "grow a pair" after this painful loss and a definite "W" that got away and will play both sides of the ball well against the Jags or will they still be "willy nilly":shrug:

if we don't win by 3 touchdowns or more next week, i will be sadly disappointed.

Coach
10-17-2010, 08:25 PM
if we don't win by 3 touchdowns or more next week, i will be sadly disappointed.

All I care at of this point is a win. I'll take it anyway, anyhow.

Chiefnj2
10-17-2010, 08:25 PM
My biggest concern and fear following this game is whether the Texans set up the blue print for abusing KC's defense.

Romeo needs to find ways to get some pressure on opposing QB's outside of Hali.

Berry better start covering receivers like he's the highest paid safety in the NFL.

kcpasco
10-17-2010, 08:25 PM
if we don't win by 3 touchdowns or more next week, i will be sadly disappointed.

The Jaguars beat Indy, I don't know why everyone thinks they are a pushover

gblowfish
10-17-2010, 08:29 PM
if we don't win by 3 touchdowns or more next week, i will be sadly disappointed.

Unfortunately, history shows that KC has big trouble with Jax. They've won six of eight meetings vs KC, including the last two:

gblowfish
10-17-2010, 08:49 PM
You can find game pics from the KC Star's Sports Page Here:
http://tinyurl.com/26nqdxj

Thig Lyfe
10-17-2010, 09:01 PM
NO!!! INSANE!!!!!

HOW DARE THE CHIEFS THROW THE BALL ON THIRD AND SHORT WHEN IT HAD BEEN WORKING ALL DAY!!!!

I don't have a problem with throwing the ball so much as the fact that doing so puts the game in Cassel's hands. He doesn't respond well to pressure, and that was the most high-pressure play of the whole game. It's the situation, not just the down and distance, that makes it perhaps not the best call.

Count Zarth
10-17-2010, 09:19 PM
There is no blueprint out on us.

Not everyone can play street ball the way Schaub and Andre Johnson do.

Count Zarth
10-17-2010, 09:23 PM
I don't have a problem with throwing the ball so much as the fact that doing so puts the game in Cassel's hands. He doesn't respond well to pressure, and that was the most high-pressure play of the whole game. It's the situation, not just the down and distance, that makes it perhaps not the best call.

Yes, let's definitely not put the game in the hands of our highest paid player.

JFC

Thig Lyfe
10-17-2010, 09:27 PM
Yes, let's definitely not put the game in the hands of our highest paid player.

JFC

When our highest paid player has shown he can't deliver, then yeah, we shouldn't put the game in his hands. It's frustrating, but it's silly to risk games just to make ourselves feel better about flushing money down the toilet.

Frankie
10-17-2010, 09:56 PM
3. We're not blocking nearly as effectively on kicks and punts now as we did earlier in the year. Arenas and McCluster have both been held in check. Other teams have adjusted, we need to work harder to give these guys a chance to break something. There's no reason our return teams shouldn't be in the top three or four in the league. We have the talent, just need the blocking.
This has been a concern of mine in the last few weeks. We need to 'adjust' to their 'adjustment.' You are right, we have the talent to be one of the top STs in the league.


1. The Chiefs record against Jacksonville has not been very good, both in Florida and at Arrowhead.
I think this just means we are due to beat the crap out of them.

Rain Man
10-17-2010, 11:59 PM
Jacksonville scares me. It seems like we never play well against Jacksonville.

Count Zarth
10-18-2010, 12:11 AM
We get JAX off a short week and they have been awful on the road this year.

And they can't stop the pass so Cassel should go for another two hundy.

philfree
10-18-2010, 12:38 AM
We get JAX off a short week and they have been awful on the road this year.

And they can't stop the pass so Cassel should go for another two hundy.

WooWoo! LOL If he throws 3 more TDs I'll take it.


PhilFree:arrow:

xztop12
10-18-2010, 01:17 AM
My biggest complaint was how easy Texas made it look on those 20 yard chunks. especially on the last drive, the first 2 passes, one over the middle to the tight end... just grabbed 20 yards very easily, DJ should not have been covering that tight end... I dont know if this roster is short of defensive backs or what but there were way too many linebackers on the field on the texans last drive

xztop12
10-18-2010, 01:25 AM
I also dont like having both arenas and mccluster back because neither is a good lead blocker, put Copper infront of one of them, just rotate who you let return it... unless we're convinced they're directionally kicking

MOhillbilly
10-18-2010, 07:44 AM
albert played like shit in the second half. Vrabel is slow as fuck and his 1st step doesnt exist, McGraw is a slug, and the young guys arent playing worth a shit. Teams pretty much know what D we are in by looking at the safety packages.

gblowfish
10-18-2010, 08:56 AM
This morning I was looking closer at this critical 3rd down play. Look at our linemen when the ball is being released. Four of them are all just standing in a group, watching the world go by. Only Weigman is engaged in a block. WTF???

Moeacki is not open, but Bowe certainly is.

When this picture is snapped, the ball is already in the air headed for Moeaki. You can see it circled in red in the Texans 50-yardline logo.

Otter
10-18-2010, 09:35 AM
This morning I was looking closer at this critical 3rd down play. Look at our linemen when the ball is being released. Four of them are all just standing in a group, watching the world go by. Only Weigman is engaged in a block. WTF???

Moeacki is not open, but Bowe certainly is.

When this picture is snapped, the ball is already in the air headed for Moeaki. You can see it circled in red in the Texans 50-yardline logo.

Ouch! Unless there's a safety up top we can't see that's a home run ball.

Pestilence
10-18-2010, 09:42 AM
That 3rd and 2 misfire is on Cassel.

The funny thing is that we've been in 3rd and 2 in multiple situations (in other games) before....and Weis has run Charles each time on a sweep. And each time it hasn't worked....and then CP is in an uproar over the play call.

It was the right playcall and the wrong read by the QB.

Chiefnj2
10-18-2010, 09:52 AM
Right read, bad throw. In the GIF thread there are still shots.

Fish
10-18-2010, 09:52 AM
That 3rd and 2 misfire is on Cassel.

The funny thing is that we've been in 3rd and 2 in multiple situations (in other games) before....and Weis has run Charles each time on a sweep. And each time it hasn't worked....and then CP is in an uproar over the play call.

It was the right playcall and the wrong read by the QB.

That's a pretty good point. Lots of folks are coming down on Weis the last few weeks. But the playcalling hasn't been what's hurt us. It's been the execution of the playcalling that's really sucked. I've been pretty happy with Weis this year, despite the last few losses. If you go back and watch tape from a year ago, there's a night and day difference.

Detoxing
10-18-2010, 09:54 AM
Right read, bad throw. In the GIF thread there are still shots.

Wrong read and a bad throw. Moeaki was covered. Bowe was running free. Hell, he might've even been running free to the endzone if there were no safety up there.

Frazod
10-18-2010, 09:54 AM
That 3rd and 2 misfire is on Cassel.

The funny thing is that we've been in 3rd and 2 in multiple situations (in other games) before....and Weis has run Charles each time on a sweep. And each time it hasn't worked....and then CP is in an uproar over the play call.

It was the right playcall and the wrong read by the QB.

Jesus, I give up. :banghead:

Chiefnj2
10-18-2010, 09:59 AM
Wrong read and a bad throw. Moeaki was covered. Bowe was running free. Hell, he might've even been running free to the endzone if there were no safety up there.

Go to the giffe'd up thread. Moeaki was open when Cassel was going through the reads.

Chief Henry
10-18-2010, 10:03 AM
On that 3rd and 2 play, do any of you recall if that was play action ?

Detoxing
10-18-2010, 10:07 AM
Go to the giffe'd up thread. Moeaki was open when Cassel was going through the reads.

And Bowe was wide open underneath. The same way he had been wide open on all of the previous 3rd down passes he caught. Bowe was the better choice.

Chiefnj2
10-18-2010, 10:17 AM
And Bowe was wide open underneath. The same way he had been wide open on all of the previous 3rd down passes he caught. Bowe was the better choice.

Moeaki was open earlier.

The Bad Guy
10-18-2010, 10:19 AM
I'd love to know if that was a decided TE throwback or if it was on Cassel.

Detoxing
10-18-2010, 10:24 AM
Moeaki was open earlier.

Dude, c'mon now. Go back and look at the thread you're referencing.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=232075&page=64

Moeaki had a defender on his back the entire time. Bowe was streaking across the field and had a good 2-3 yards on the defender.

Bowe was the easier read, easier throw, easier catch and probably would've gone for 6.

even had Cassel not overthrown Moeaki, the defender still could've got a hand in there to break up the pass.

It was a bad read any way you slice it.

Chiefnj2
10-18-2010, 10:27 AM
Dude, c'mon now. Go back and look at the thread you're referencing.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=232075&page=64

Moeaki had a defender on his back the entire time. Bowe was streaking across the field and had a good 2-3 yards on the defender.

Bowe was the easier read, easier throw, easier catch and probably would've gone for 6.

even had Cassel not overthrown Moeaki, the defender still could've got a hand in there to break up the pass.

It was a bad read any way you slice it.

Post 964.

Detoxing
10-18-2010, 10:33 AM
Post 964.

Still think Bowe was the better read.

Bearcat
10-18-2010, 10:47 AM
That 3rd and 2 misfire is on Cassel.

The funny thing is that we've been in 3rd and 2 in multiple situations (in other games) before....and Weis has run Charles each time on a sweep. And each time it hasn't worked....and then CP is in an uproar over the play call.

It was the right playcall and the wrong read by the QB.

They've also called pass plays on 4th down that didn't work (or got bailed out by a penalty)... actually, I've seen a trend to RRP unless it's overly obvious that it's a run or pass on 3rd/4th down, then they tend to do the opposite every time.

Someone posted the rushing yards per attempt in the 2nd half, and IIRC none of the attempts late into the 3rd and in the 4th were less than 4 yards. Of course, that doesn't guarantee future results, but you can't afford to outsmart yourself in that situation.

I don't care what happens in other games and other situations, in that situation with the game on the line, you do what works or else you sure as hell better have a high percentage play... and Cassel in a high pressure situation isn't 'what works'.

Like I mentioned a few times yesterday, you can't be overly aggressive and outside-the-box just for the sake of thinking outside the box. Eventually, in big situations, you have to do what works, and you have to get the ball into the hands of your playmakers.

Should we expect more from Cassel; should he be one of those playmakers? Yes. Should they have chosen that situation to prove himself? No.

(also, everyone seems to ignore it, but Moeaki pulled up on that play.. it might have been overthrown anyway, but he didn't help)

FAX
10-18-2010, 10:54 AM
Serious question, here ... sounds like ... "Casshole Bashing!!!", but it isn't. Not really.

Does Casswipe regularly go through progressions? Actually make reads? Look off defenders?

To me, it appears that, more often than not, he takes the first option ... whatever that option may be. Partially because he's told to get the ball out fast on the dinky-dunky and partially because he is a tad frantic in the pocket and partially because he is an untalented dipstick who should be drown in a vat of hobo testicle sweat (okay, a little bashing there).

Seriously, though ... do you guys see him making "reads"?

EDIT: I see him staring down receivers ... a lot. I also see the defense watching his eyes and reacting to that more often than not which is one of the reasons our receivers seem well covered.

FAX

gblowfish
10-18-2010, 10:59 AM
The problem on this play was, since Fat Albert gave his man an OLE' block, Cassel had to unload in a hurry, and he threw at the first thing he picked up, which was Moeaki. If he has even one more second to throw, he might have spotted Bowe running free. So on this one, the biggest problem is Albert getting beat and forcing the throw.

Detoxing
10-18-2010, 10:59 AM
Serious question, here ... sounds like ... "Casshole Bashing!!!", but it isn't. Not really.

Does Casswipe regularly go through progressions? Actually make reads? Look off defenders?

To me, it appears that, more often than not, he takes the first option ... whatever that option may be. Partially because he's told to get the ball out fast on the dinky-dunky and partially because he is a tad frantic in the pocket and partially because he is an untalented dipstick who should be drown in a vat of hobo testicle sweat (okay, a little bashing there).

Seriously, though ... do you guys see him making "reads"?

EDIT: I see him staring down receivers ... a lot. I also see the defense watching his eyes and reacting to that more often than not which is one of the reasons our receivers seem well covered.

FAX

Well....I know I never see his head move. he stares down his receivers and never even looks another direction.

He seems to have regressed.

Mecca
10-18-2010, 11:02 AM
Well....I know I never see his head move. he stares down his receivers and never even looks another direction.

He seems to have regressed.

He's always been doing that, he seems to be doing the run around like a dumbass move less this year though, so I guess he finally got the hint to knock that off.

boogblaster
10-18-2010, 11:06 AM
think he's getting better .. but has a long long way to go ....
please start Croyle .......

FAX
10-18-2010, 11:11 AM
The problem on this play was, since Fat Albert gave his man an OLE' block, Cassel had to unload in a hurry, and he threw at the first thing he picked up, which was Moeaki. If he has even one more second to throw, he might have spotted Bowe running free. So on this one, the biggest problem is Albert getting beat and forcing the throw.

You are a student of the game, Mr. gblowfish. Plus, you have good seats and you pay attention when you're not picking fights with our coaching staff.

Do you see Cassrash looking off defenders? Going through progressions?

FAX

Coogs
10-18-2010, 11:12 AM
Manning had a 3 point lead last night right at the 2 minute warning, and threw 3 straight incompletions to covered receivers. Bet the Colts BB is in full meltdown.

Mecca
10-18-2010, 11:14 AM
Manning had a 3 point lead last night right at the 2 minute warning, and threw 3 straight incompletions to covered receivers. Bet the Colts BB is in full meltdown.

That's a pretty bad comparison to go to, if Cassel had Manning's track record no one would be flipping out. Hell most of us gave Trent Green a pass 90% of the time because he generally played well.

keg in kc
10-18-2010, 11:23 AM
Oh come on, Mecca, Cassel is Peyton Manning any way you slice it. Every week it's 300 yard games, every season ends with 12 wins, playoffs, superbowls, that's the Matt Cassel legacy!

gblowfish
10-18-2010, 11:40 AM
You are a student of the game, Mr. gblowfish. Plus, you have good seats and you pay attention when you're not picking fights with our coaching staff.

Do you see Cassrash looking off defenders? Going through progressions?

FAX

I think Ca$$el's biggest problem is maturity. He just hasn't been a starter for that long. He has happy feet. Last year he got ground into the turf because of our awful offensive line. This year the line is better, but Cassel still looks like a deer in the headlights most of the game. Also, I think he's very afraid to make mistakes. So he does not improvise well. He does exactly what he's told, then if it doesn't work, well, he was "just following orders." He reminds me a lot of Steve Bono, unfortunately. And I think the coaches are so far in his head that he runs the play exactly as drawn. He has no ability to create or think on his feet like Steve Young, Favre or even Trent Green. All these guys could think on their feet and adapt to the game situation. And I think you either have this as a personality trait, or you don't. I don't see Ca$$el ever developing that swagger.

We need a franchise guy, and he ain't it.
Next year, bring on Bachelor #2.....

KChiefer
10-18-2010, 03:03 PM
Just wanna say thanks for finding a sentence for Gus Johnson's horrid color. It was Gumble-esk.

Reerun_KC
10-18-2010, 03:09 PM
Oh come on, Mecca, Cassel is Peyton Manning any way you slice it. Every week it's 300 yard games, every season ends with 12 wins, playoffs, superbowls, that's the Matt Cassel legacy!

ROFL

Frankie
10-18-2010, 03:16 PM
And Bowe was wide open underneath. The same way he had been wide open on all of the previous 3rd down passes he caught. Bowe was the better choice.

Cassel's bad read I accept. But if it had been happening with frequency, why didn't our coaches point that out to Cassel?

chiefzilla1501
10-18-2010, 03:49 PM
The problem on this play was, since Fat Albert gave his man an OLE' block, Cassel had to unload in a hurry, and he threw at the first thing he picked up, which was Moeaki. If he has even one more second to throw, he might have spotted Bowe running free. So on this one, the biggest problem is Albert getting beat and forcing the throw.

Hey gblowfish, check out the pics I posted on the Gif'd Up thread.

What's interesting is that Moeaki was not his first option, but I can see why he threw to him. He looks right (probably at McCluster first) and as Cassel is looking right/middle, Bowe is taking on a D-back. Meanwhile, McCluster is slipping underneath and has a noticeable step on his defenders.

If Cassel leads Moeaki, it's a really easy first down. He didn't largely because Williams was in his face, but when you look at the clip, Cassel had more than enough space to step into the throw. I'd blame Albert first, but Cassel has to learn to throw under pressure.