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View Full Version : Football Let's discuss the POSSIBILITY of shaved points and fixing games.(video included)


Nzoner
10-18-2010, 10:51 AM
Can't find it now but when I was n00b here I started a thread that was discussing a book I have called Interference:How Organized Crime Influences the NFL from 1989.

The author is interviewed in the attatched video from the Sajak show.I've also added a couple of other videos,one,which I believe was the biggest example of a fix that I've ever witnessed in the NFL.

Before I get lit up let me say,I'm not saying games are fixed for who wins or loses but I do believe point shaving goes on quite a bit and in the process it affects the wins and losses.

Hope you enjoy the videos and it brings about a good discussion.


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FAX
10-18-2010, 11:15 AM
Having witnessed the Manning Era, there are moments when I wonder if the NFL isn't professional wrasslin' in pads on a real, big, green mat.

FAX

ClevelandBronco
10-18-2010, 11:31 AM
If you're crazy enough to wager on the performance of people you don't know, you get what you've earned.

The Bad Guy
10-18-2010, 11:33 AM
If you're crazy enough to wager on the performance of people you don't know, you get what you've earned.

There's a whole ton of truth in this.

Deberg_1990
10-18-2010, 11:40 AM
Before I get lit up let me say,I'm not saying games are fixed for who wins or loses but I do believe point shaving goes on quite a bit and in the process it affects the wins and losses.



I think it probably goes on in most pro sports, heck we already know it occured in the NBA (Donaghey).

I only pray its not very widespread.

Pitt Gorilla
10-18-2010, 11:49 AM
There is little question that the call on Flowers was part of a fix. There is simply no other explanation for that as defensive pass interference.

InChiefsHell
10-18-2010, 11:53 AM
Absolutely. Remember Paul "The Wrecking" Crew? I mean, that guy never gave a shit about football. He only played for his old man.

Inspector
10-18-2010, 12:06 PM
Well, if they are doing that, they should try to be a little more discreet.

Nzoner
10-18-2010, 12:11 PM
Having witnessed the Manning Era, there are moments when I wonder if the NFL isn't professional wrasslin' in pads on a real, big, green mat.

FAX

Funny you should use that comparison,I remember reading a quote,I'm thinking it was in a Tim Green book that had an NFL player basically saying that they were really no different than the WWF(at that time) only on a much much bigger stage.

Mecca
10-18-2010, 12:16 PM
Funny you should use that comparison,I remember reading a quote,I'm thinking it was in a Tim Green book that had an NFL player basically saying that they were really no different than the WWF(at that time) only on a much much bigger stage.

Considering betting is the main thing that has driven the NFL to being the #1 sport it makes sense, they feed that hand that feeds them.

keg in kc
10-18-2010, 12:16 PM
There's a guy that's been on coast-to-coast a few times who's talked about how the fix is in in every major sports league, from soccer to football to baseball to the NBA. Started to appear on the show around the time that the US was screwed out of world cup competition. It's interesting stuff.

Nzoner
10-18-2010, 12:19 PM
Speaking of Tim Green(ex Atlanta Falcon) here's a bio on one of his books I've read note the 5th and 8th bullet points.

Link (http://www.timgreenbooks.com/darkside.php)


The Dark Side of the Game

Millions watch it. Billions are spent on it. Yet few fans know what life is really like in the NFL. Now an eight-year veteran of the game and a rising sports media superstar reveals—for the first time—the pathos, the horror, the abuses, and the wonder of the sport they call professional football.

Fame and fortune, satisfaction, and thrills define the dream of playing in the NFL. But there's a dark side to that dream. And no one knows it better than Tim Green, former defensive end for the Atlanta Falcons, a featured color analyst for Fox Sports, and National Public Radio's weekly NFL commentator.

Unreported things happen during the season when the player is on the field—and on the sidelines and in the locker rooms. Unreported things also happen during the 149 days of the year when the player is not on the field. All of it takes its toll on the human body and spirit. In professional football, there is a price and it must be paid.

Here's the play-by-play the NFL powers-that-be don't want you to know:

*the futility of training camp—and the outrageous lengths players go to get out of it
*the paradoxes of pain protection—goodbye padding, hello drugs
*the untold war inside every team between the offensive and defensive squads
*the truth about groupies and NFL players
*the thriving perfect partnership between the mob and the NFL
*what the salary cap really is—and why players hate it
*the best—and worst—places to play in the NFL
*the score on racism, AIDS, gambling, steroids, and life after football.

At the same time, you'll meet the NFL's most stellar—and most unjustly neglected—personalities. The dazzling Deion Sanders, Steve Young, the game's most dangerous player. The sport's most outspoken former coach, Jerry Glanville. Not to mention Green's unexpected choice for most valuable man in the NFL: strength and conditioning coach Mike Woicik.

Most of all, you'll soar with the spirit that no corruption can ever kill. The spirit that lives in school teams and sandlot games, and inspires kids to get up, over and over again. The spirit that stays with them as they grow to manhood and urges them to success in every field they tackle. The spirit that tells them they can do it, as long as they aren't afraid to dream.

Otter
10-18-2010, 12:19 PM
There's a whole ton of truth in this.

But it's fun :D

Chiefnj2
10-18-2010, 12:20 PM
Seattle/Pitt Super Bowl.

FAX
10-18-2010, 12:22 PM
There's a guy that's been on coast-to-coast a few times who's talked about how the fix is in in every major sports league, from soccer to football to baseball to the NBA. Started to appear on the show around the time that the US was screwed out of world cup competition. It's interesting stuff.

I have learned to never underestimate the power of greed.

It would sadden, but not surprise me, to find that the NFL is rigged to a degree. I am sure that the officials play favorites in games ... my eyes have seen enough to convince my brain that much is true. The call against TG in the playoff game against the Mannings was the icing on the cake.

If Trent Green had had the endorsement deals that Manning had, I honestly don't think they make that call.

FAX

Frazod
10-18-2010, 12:22 PM
Well, if they are doing that, they should try to be a little more discreet.

Why? They've been getting away with it for years and nobody does anything.

Fifth Down anyone? How about Super Bowl XL? How about any game where Peyton fucking Manning might get a little green discoloration on his pretty white uniform? :shake:

Of course, anybody who points out the obvious is a whiner, a loser, or "has a victim mentality." Or so I'm told.

Mecca
10-18-2010, 12:29 PM
Why? They've been getting away with it for years and nobody does anything.

Fifth Down anyone? How about Super Bowl XL? How about any game where Peyton fucking Manning might get a little green discoloration on his pretty white uniform? :shake:

Of course, anybody who points out the obvious is a whiner, a loser, or "has a victim mentality." Or so I'm told.

I don't think there's any question all leagues have a vested interest in what teams win. Anyone who disputes that is living in a dream world.

Deberg_1990
10-18-2010, 12:32 PM
I don't think there's any question all leagues have a vested interest in what teams win. Anyone who disputes that is living in a dream world.


Is this why the Yankees are in the playoffs every year? Leagues need "flagship" teams love them or hate them.

Wait, why are the Cowboys 1 -4 then? : )

ClevelandBronco
10-18-2010, 12:34 PM
I don't think there's any question all leagues have a vested interest in what teams win. Anyone who disputes that is living in a dream world.

Do you think that the league ever had any kind of essential "vested interest" in seeing a team in Indianapolis win?

Mecca
10-18-2010, 12:36 PM
Do you think that the league ever had any kind of essential "vested interest" in seeing a team in Indianapolis win?

Not until they decided Peyton Manning was going to be the face of the NFL.

Mecca
10-18-2010, 12:37 PM
Is this why the Yankees are in the playoffs every year? Leagues need "flagship" teams love them or hate them.

Wait, why are the Cowboys 1 -4 then? : )

I think in recent years the NFL has gone with the Patriots and Steelers as the "flagships" over the Cowboys. For a long time the Cowboys and 49ers played those roles.

FAX
10-18-2010, 12:38 PM
Why? They've been getting away with it for years and nobody does anything.

Fifth Down anyone? How about Super Bowl XL? How about any game where Peyton ****ing Manning might get a little green discoloration on his pretty white uniform? :shake:

Of course, anybody who points out the obvious is a whiner, a loser, or "has a victim mentality." Or so I'm told.

Exactly, Mr. frazod. Exactly.

People say that you shouldn't blame the officials when you experience a loss. But, sometimes it's pretty darn obvious that preferential treatment is being distributed in an unfair manner. When that occurs, I say, "Why not?" and "Let's kill the bastards!" and things like that.

Hali's inability to draw holding calls is a great example. Apparently, somebody in the NFL visited his home town and wound up in a gang Gbanga or something.

You often hear ex-player people and color dudes commenting about how some players are so respected that they rarely get called for stuff. Or, how the officials could call holding on every play if they so desired. Or, how it isn't a foul if you don't get caught. Et cetera and so on. Seems fishy, to me.

I mean, why institute instant replay at all? Obviously, a lot of people grew weary of the crap calls in critical situations.

FAX

FAX
10-18-2010, 12:39 PM
I think in recent years the NFL has gone with the Patriots and Steelers as the "flagships" over the Cowboys. For a long time the Cowboys and 49ers played those roles.

And the Mannings, Mr. Mecca. Don't forget the Mannings.

FAX

keg in kc
10-18-2010, 12:39 PM
Not until they decided Peyton Manning was going to be the face of the NFL.We're going to see the exact same thing with the Jets and Sanchez. They're going to do everything possible to prop him up and get that team to the championship as often as possible, both for the new york market and to have a hispanic face for the NFL. Sort of a next generation Tony Gonzalez, in a real market, playing a real position.

FAX
10-18-2010, 12:41 PM
Do you think that the league ever had any kind of essential "vested interest" in seeing a team in Indianapolis win?

For reasons beyond mortal understanding, Mr. ClevelandBronco, Manning and his weird penis nose has a billion endorsement deals which the NFL loves. Advertising is revenue and, if there's one thing the NFL likes, it's revenue.

FAX

Mecca
10-18-2010, 12:41 PM
We're going to see the exact same thing with the Jets and Sanchez. They're going to do everything possible to prop him up and get that team to the championship as often as possible, both for the new york market and to have a hispanic face for the NFL. Sort of a next generation Tony Gonzalez, in a real market, playing a real position.

That's a really good point, I could easily see the Jets taking the Patriots spot in league favor. The NFL has a ton to gain from the Jets being a flagship with Sanchez as a premier face.

ClevelandBronco
10-18-2010, 12:42 PM
Not until they decided Peyton Manning was going to be the face of the NFL.

I guess I'm skeptical that that occurrence was orchestrated by anyone outside the Manning family, his teammates, the Colts' front office, his marketing team (you're right, Mr. FAX, especially his marketing team) and Peyton himself. It would be easier to convince me that the NFL saw a good thing that was already happening and embraced it.

Mecca
10-18-2010, 12:43 PM
For reasons beyond mortal understanding, Mr. ClevelandBronco, Manning and his weird penis nose has a billion endorsement deals which the NFL loves. Advertising is revenue and, if there's one thing the NFL likes, it's revenue.

FAX

In short for the Chiefs to ever become a favored team we'll need to draft a player that because a superstar face of the league, as soon as Manning retires the Colts will go back to being an afterthought.

Mecca
10-18-2010, 12:44 PM
I guess I'm skeptical that that occurrence was orchestrated by anyone outside the Manning family, his teammates, the Colts' front office, his marketing team and Peyton himself. It would be easier to convince me that the NFL saw a good thing that was already happening and embraced it.

Well obviously it starts with the player, they don't hitch the wagon to a rookie right away. But as soon as they saw what he was becoming and going to be they decided he was the face of the league and are riding that horse for all it's worth.

ClevelandBronco
10-18-2010, 12:46 PM
In short for the Chiefs to ever become a favored team we'll need to draft a player that because a superstar face of the league, as soon as Manning retires the Colts will go back to being an afterthought.

Call me crazy, but the inevitable decline of the Colts might have something to do with losing Peyton's rare and irreplaceable talent.

Mecca
10-18-2010, 12:47 PM
Call me crazy, but the inevitable decline of the Colts might have something to do with losing Peyton's rare and irreplaceable talent.

Mixture of both, yes the guy is a great player but there is no denying the Colts are in the leagues preferred handful of teams and have been for a long time.

vailpass
10-18-2010, 12:48 PM
I saw the word "shaved" and thought this was going to be a whole different type of thread. Bummer.

Nzoner
10-18-2010, 12:48 PM
In short for the Chiefs to ever become a favored team we'll need to draft a player that because a superstar face of the league, as soon as Manning retires the Colts will go back to being an afterthought.

I can see it now,Peyton announces it'll be his final year and what do you know he gets to face Eli in the Super Bowl which will be the Super Bowl I never watch.

ClevelandBronco
10-18-2010, 12:48 PM
Mixture of both, yes the guy is a great player but there is no denying the Colts are in the leagues preferred handful of teams and have been for a long time.

I imagine the league has found that it's easier to market winners than it is to market losers.

vailpass
10-18-2010, 12:49 PM
Did you guys know the US government was behind 9-11?

ClevelandBronco
10-18-2010, 12:49 PM
I can see it now,Peyton announces it'll be his final year and what do you know he gets to face Eli the Super Bowl which will be the Super Bowl I never watch.

Does Favre have a son he could face in a Super Bowl? That'd be just peachy.

Mecca
10-18-2010, 12:50 PM
I imagine the league has found that it's easier to market winners than it is to market losers.

You're missing the point here, there are lots of winners and a handful of teams that seem to always get the benefit of the doubt.

Seattle was a winner, wasn't it pretty blatantly obvious the NFL had a much more vested interest in Pittsburgh winning that Superbowl?

ClevelandBronco
10-18-2010, 01:04 PM
You're missing the point here, there are lots of winners and a handful of teams that seem to always get the benefit of the doubt.

Seattle was a winner, wasn't it pretty blatantly obvious the NFL had a much more vested interest in Pittsburgh winning that Superbowl?

No. That was not blatantly obvious to me, but I won't go so far as to say that those who share your view can't present a good argument. So, while I think that the outcome was favorable for the NFL, I'm not convinced that the outcome was predetermined.

Nzoner
10-18-2010, 01:21 PM
You're missing the point here, there are lots of winners and a handful of teams that seem to always get the benefit of the doubt.

Seattle was a winner, wasn't it pretty blatantly obvious the NFL had a much more vested interest in Pittsburgh winning that Superbowl?

I think that argument could be made for the Steelers last 2 SB wins



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Nzoner
10-25-2010, 02:30 PM
You're missing the point here, there are lots of winners and a handful of teams that seem to always get the benefit of the doubt.

Seattle was a winner, wasn't it pretty blatantly obvious the NFL had a much more vested interest in Pittsburgh winning that Superbowl?

or the game in Miami yesterday.

Chiefnj2
10-25-2010, 02:45 PM
or the game in Miami yesterday.

When I heard that call yesterday, the first thing I thought of was this thread. He fumbled, but the three Dolphins who first fall on the ball isn't really conclusive, so we'll give the ball back to the Steelers to try again.

Nzoner
10-25-2010, 04:04 PM
When I heard that call yesterday, the first thing I thought of was this thread. He fumbled, but the three Dolphins who first fall on the ball isn't really conclusive, so we'll give the ball back to the Steelers to try again.

Yeah,they ought to change their team name to the Stealers

Pablo
10-25-2010, 04:11 PM
Yeah,they ought to change their team name to the StealersI think frazod has patented the $tealers logo.

Buck
10-25-2010, 04:14 PM
Hey Nzoner, I didn't see this thread the first time around, but I remember we were talking about the NFL Fixing games when I was out there.

Do you know if the officials ever gave a reason as to why Polamalu's TD didn't count in that 3rd vid? I remember the game, but obviously when the Chargers lost, I didn't care if it was by 1 or by 7. Usually when they lose I go into a hole for about 3 days and don't watch ESPN or anything so I may have missed any discussion on the matter.

Chiefs Rool
10-25-2010, 04:24 PM
the NFL probably has the money being spent on bets from very rich people down to poor people. If you think that something with that type of money being exchanged and it's not corrupted, you're a little naive.

Buck
10-25-2010, 04:36 PM
I just watched the 1st and 2nd video.

The first video was pretty cool, with the author talking to Sajak.

The 2nd video however, could have been shortened to about 3 minutes long. What was the deal with showing all the NBA fights? What does that have to do with anything? Also at the end it says Stern cannot be prosecuted for the 2002 WC Finals because the statute of limitations is 5 years. Well, I really doubt he'll ever get charged with fixing games, but that's not how the statute of limitations works.

Pawnmower
10-25-2010, 04:36 PM
Thanks for taking the time to post this stuff Nzoner....Very cool of you.

Nzoner
10-25-2010, 04:53 PM
Hey Nzoner, I didn't see this thread the first time around, but I remember we were talking about the NFL Fixing games when I was out there.

Do you know if the officials ever gave a reason as to why Polamalu's TD didn't count in that 3rd vid? I remember the game, but obviously when the Chargers lost, I didn't care if it was by 1 or by 7. Usually when they lose I go into a hole for about 3 days and don't watch ESPN or anything so I may have missed any discussion on the matter.

Not to sound like an ass but it's in the video,it was ruled an illegal forward pass.

HemiEd
10-25-2010, 04:54 PM
There is little question that the call on Flowers was part of a fix. There is simply no other explanation for that as defensive pass interference.

That is what I have told all my buddies up here in Chicago, when they ask what happened in that game.

The fix was in!

The only one I can come up with besides the fix.

The ref, decided after he had thrown the flag, not to call a penalty that would piss off the home fans and end the game for Houston.
So he called it on Flowers, as the pass was completed anyway. It is not good, but it is the only thing else I can come up with.

Nzoner
10-25-2010, 05:01 PM
When I heard that call yesterday, the first thing I thought of was this thread. He fumbled, but the three Dolphins who first fall on the ball isn't really conclusive, so we'll give the ball back to the Steelers to try again.


For those who may have missed it



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Buck
10-25-2010, 05:04 PM
Not to sound like an ass but it's in the video,it was ruled an illegal forward pass.

Oh I must have tuned that out. Sorry.

HemiEd
10-25-2010, 05:17 PM
For those who may have missed it



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Thanks for posting that Joe, I hadn't seen it. Holy crap, that is pure bullshit!

boogblaster
10-25-2010, 05:20 PM
look at last week .. 4.5 but loss was 4 .......

Chiefs Rool
10-25-2010, 05:44 PM
Not to sound like an ass but it's in the video,it was ruled an illegal forward pass.

nothing has ever been more obvious that the refs were covering the spread

ClevelandBronco
10-25-2010, 05:47 PM
For those who may have missed it



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When I was waiting for the official to make the final call yesterday, I thought of this thread.