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View Full Version : Football Helmet to helmet hits


luv
10-18-2010, 11:04 PM
Where do you stand?

Count Alex's Wins
10-18-2010, 11:05 PM
More violence is better.

Ebolapox
10-18-2010, 11:08 PM
obviously, I'm all for guys not developing alzheimer's and severe head-trauma in their 40's. something HAS to change. it's going to suck in the short term (especially with plays that were never penalties/guys making a play on the ball and being flagged), but in the long term, I'm glad they're taking steps to make sure the ex-nfl guys don't turn into mickey rourke in 'the wrestler' (beaten up and out of the limelight, and nobody gives a shit about them).

luv
10-18-2010, 11:09 PM
It seems that concussions are becoming more of an issue with the size of the pads decreasing. Could be that players are bigger and more physical. I think that if it's a blatant helmet to helmet hit, then there should be a suspension. Maybe the person doing the hitting gets suspended for the same amount of time that they player they hit is out. I don't know. I can see both sides. I don't want to see the physical game fade out, but what do you do when all of these payers get hurt?

Sure-Oz
10-18-2010, 11:10 PM
Trent Dilfer and Matt Millen don't like it. Steve Young doesn't but understands why they are doing it.

I say keep the game how it is imo....

pr_capone
10-18-2010, 11:11 PM
They should be penalized. At the same time, it has to be a case by case kinda thing. Sometimes a H2H hit simply cannot be avoided. A receiver ducking his head at the last second with a defender already leaning into the hit.

Physics say that the defender can't alter his trajectory mid air to compensate for the unknown movements of the offensive players head.

If it is some intentional shit or completely avoidable... absolutely suspend him.

luv
10-18-2010, 11:11 PM
Also, that's just more calls for the refs to miss or call incorrectly.

Would it just help to train defense to aim for the stomach instead of the torso in order to try to prevent lifting up and hitting the helmet?

Sure-Oz
10-18-2010, 11:11 PM
It seems like anyone and it could be chiefs players that nail a guy helmet to helmet, even on accident will get suspended.

CaliforniaChief
10-18-2010, 11:12 PM
Trent Dilfer and Matt Millen don't like it. Steve Young doesn't but understands why they are doing it.

I say keep the game how it is imo....

Cue the video. Paging GoChiefs.

-King-
10-18-2010, 11:12 PM
Suspensions are too much IMO. Ejections fine, but suspensions...eh, unless it was really blatant.

Most of the helmet to helmet contact aren't intentional so I don't see how you can suspend a guy for that. The NFL is fast as shit and no one has time to think "Hey, let me hit this guy with my helmet". It's too fast for that. Can't suspend a player for making a play on the ball. They didn't intentionally try to go helmet to helmet.

But yeah, if they're really going to escalate the punishment, then just make it ejections.

journeyscarab
10-18-2010, 11:12 PM
Trent Dilfer and Matt Millen don't like it. Steve Young doesn't but understands why they are doing it.

I say keep the game how it is imo....

I was waiting for Millen to headbutt Young.

Sure-Oz
10-18-2010, 11:13 PM
The suspensions you have to look at the tape and look at it case by case. Harrison of Pitt and the NE guy were intentionally trying to blow people up. Either way its part of the damn game...it just happend to show up alot this past weekend.

CaliforniaChief
10-18-2010, 11:14 PM
I was waiting for Millen to headbutt Young.

He was about to...but came to his senses and drafted a wide receiver.

Ebolapox
10-18-2010, 11:14 PM
that's the thing. it's a physical game, and physics comes into play (equal/opposite reaction AND items in motion staying in motion unless acted upon by an equal but opposite force). you can't fault a guy for shit that's unavoidable.

the game can STILL be physical while we protect the players. go spend a few minutes with one of the older guys who has had concussion issues. it'll change your mind immediately (to protect the future and current players).

Ebolapox
10-18-2010, 11:15 PM
of course steve young understands. dude's had concussion issues. they can really fuck up your day (and life, sometimes).

blaise
10-18-2010, 11:15 PM
It's hard to police, but when you have 275 pound linebackers and d-ends dropping into coverage and dishing out hits on 190 pound wide receivers, someone is going to die on the field. And if Roger Goodell thinks guys going to strip clubs hurts the game's image, that would be nothing compared to people getting killed on the field.

CaliforniaChief
10-18-2010, 11:16 PM
The devil's in the details. How one interprets the hit could be based on so many different things. For instance, if a player lays motionless for awhile, it may exacerbate the hit, even if it's not worthy of suspension.

cdcox
10-18-2010, 11:16 PM
They are also suspending for "devastating hits". No more jacked up.

Sure-Oz
10-18-2010, 11:17 PM
Basically everyone must hug it out

luv
10-18-2010, 11:18 PM
They are also suspending for "devastating hits". No more jacked up.

And I agree that they need to define devastating.

cdcox
10-18-2010, 11:19 PM
And I agree that they need to define devastating.

They could put a mini-accelerometer on every player.

Valiant
10-18-2010, 11:19 PM
Trent Dilfer and Matt Millen don't like it. Steve Young doesn't but understands why they are doing it.

I say keep the game how it is imo....

Steve Young is acting like a bitch.. He is spouting NFL koolaid to get the argument out there.. Seriously, his fucking argument is QBs are not as good now and are sacrificing their WRs so we need to punish the defenders for their zone coverage and their ability to come hit the WRs??

The issue isn't even head to head..

It is hard hitting/devastating hits.. If the defender cannot go all out then they better make sure the fucking offensive player cannot either... I hope someone goes helmet to dome on Goodell for being a fucking idiot..

18game schedule, now this.. Guess what dumbfuck, if you are soo worried about the players then you have no reason to pursue the 18game schedule..

blaise
10-18-2010, 11:21 PM
And I agree that they need to define devastating.

It's going to be near impossible to do that, and what's going to happen is some players or teams will say they're being targeted, and others will say that the league gives a pass to teams like New England or the Colts.

Ebolapox
10-18-2010, 11:22 PM
so are we not supposed to give a crap about these guys after they retire? I guess it's THEIR choice to play in the nfl, but they have to live with the shit after they retire. it's funny, I understand now (never did before) why barry sanders retired while he could still walk without aide.

Valiant
10-18-2010, 11:22 PM
It's hard to police, but when you have 275 pound linebackers and d-ends dropping into coverage and dishing out hits on 190 pound wide receivers, someone is going to die on the field. And if Roger Goodell thinks guys going to strip clubs hurts the game's image, that would be nothing compared to people getting killed on the field.

Please.. IF, big IF someone dies from that, then they would have died from the little DB hitting them also.. More people would have died on the field from your comparison.. Guess what, 165lb WRs did not die from 245 DEs years ago in less gear..

luv
10-18-2010, 11:23 PM
It's going to be near impossible to do that, and what's going to happen is some players or teams will say they're being targeted, and others will say that the league gives a pass to teams like New England or the Colts.

Yep. You can't leave something like that up to refs discretion.

Sure-Oz
10-18-2010, 11:24 PM
so are we not supposed to give a crap about these guys after they retire? I guess it's THEIR choice to play in the nfl, but they have to live with the shit after they retire. it's funny, I understand now (never did before) why barry sanders retired while he could still walk without aide.

It's the game....and they know it.

There will be more leg tackles as dilfer says and more knee injuries etc...

The game has ALWAYS been this way, people make millions off of it knowing the risks.

Valiant
10-18-2010, 11:24 PM
so are we not supposed to give a crap about these guys after they retire? I guess it's THEIR choice to play in the nfl, but they have to live with the shit after they retire. it's funny, I understand now (never did before) why barry sanders retired while he could still walk without aide.

To a small degree you have a point.. These players also have the ability to store money away and not blow it.. But most don't.. But the league should help more with retired players that played a significant time in the league..

philfree
10-18-2010, 11:25 PM
It's going from head to head to "devastating hit" and at this point they have no definition of what a devastating hit is. They're going to start penalizing players for clean hits if the hit is devastating? Helmet to Hemet isn't that ahrd to spot but the NFL and the refs are going to screw this up.


PhilFree:arrow:

Sure-Oz
10-18-2010, 11:26 PM
I say you don't suspend every damn person that does it....it was a handful of plays and this weekend just went over the top, 1 weekend....

Ebolapox
10-18-2010, 11:26 PM
actually, it HASN'T always been THIS way. guys are stronger, faster and hit harder today than they ever have. from a physics standpoint, there IS an upper limit on safety when you have some of the guys running around doing the shit they're doing today.

RustShack
10-18-2010, 11:26 PM
After 9/11 everyone became all sensitive. Thanks a lot Bin Laden.

Sure-Oz
10-18-2010, 11:27 PM
It's going from head to head to "devastating hit" and at this point they have no definition of what a devastating hit is. They're going to start penalizing players for clean hits if the hit is devastating? Helmet to Hemet isn't that ahrd to spot but the NFL and the refs are going to screw this up.


PhilFree:arrow:

Goodell needs to stop fucking with the game...18 game schedules and now toning down the aggressive nature of the game

blaise
10-18-2010, 11:29 PM
Please.. IF, big IF someone dies from that, then they would have died from the little DB hitting them also.. More people would have died on the field from your comparison.. Guess what, 165lb WRs did not die from 245 DEs years ago in less gear..

It may not be likely but I wouldn't say it's some sort of far fetched notion. Guys like James Harrison weren't in the game 20 years ago. He would have been a nose tackle, not a guy that can run a 4.6. The guys now are so big and so fast, that it makes the collisions more violent in my opinion. Imagine if it had been a guy Harrison's size that hit Desean Jackson instead of Dunta Robinson.

KC Tattoo
10-18-2010, 11:31 PM
They are also suspending for "devastating hits". No more jacked up.

Yea this is total bull sh!t!!! Players know the risk involved. Like bull riding the 8 seconds to stay on a bull. They do it becouse they want too and part of the game and fun. If you don't want to get hit don't play.

FAX
10-18-2010, 11:31 PM
Trent Dilfer and Matt Millen don't like it. Steve Young doesn't but understands why they are doing it.

I say keep the game how it is imo....

Steve Young may not understand how to put on his socks.

You know those things that scramble the egg while it's still in the shell?

FAX

philfree
10-18-2010, 11:33 PM
Goodell needs to stop ****ing with the game...18 game schedules and now toning down the aggressive nature of the game


Kind of a contradiction in policy. A little anyways.


PhilFree:arrow:

Valiant
10-18-2010, 11:34 PM
It may not be likely but I wouldn't say it's some sort of far fetched notion. Guys like James Harrison weren't in the game 20 years ago. He would have been a nose tackle, not a guy that can run a 4.6. The guys now are so big and so fast, that it makes the collisions more violent in my opinion. Imagine if it had been a guy Harrison's size that hit Desean Jackson instead of Dunta Robinson.

What about downfield blocking from OL on little DBs??? Those guys go flying like pinballs.. It is football.. You know you are going to get jacked..

As long as it is not a helmet to helmet hit, then they need to let the game play.. Some time shit happens on legal plays.. Same way Brady got taken out two years ago, shit happens but it should not dictate the league with bad rules..

Valiant
10-18-2010, 11:36 PM
Kind of a contradiction in policy. A little anyways.


PhilFree:arrow:

I agree.. He is putting player safety( which he wants to be the champion of) to have them play two more grueling games..

Guess what.. More people are going to get hurt playing two more regular season games then the two practice preseason games in which most teams do not even try except rookies and bubble players..

blaise
10-18-2010, 11:37 PM
What about downfield blocking from OL on little DBs??? Those guys go flying like pinballs.. It is football.. You know you are going to get jacked..

As long as it is not a helmet to helmet hit, then they need to let the game play.. Some time shit happens on legal plays.. Same way Brady got taken out two years ago, shit happens but it should not dictate the league with bad rules..

I pretty much was talking about helmet to helmet hits, or hits to the head with shoulders or forearms against defenseless receivers.

Valiant
10-18-2010, 11:41 PM
I pretty much was talking about helmet to helmet hits, or hits to the head with shoulders or forearms against defenseless receivers.

defenseless, deliberate forearm and helmet to helmet I agree with..

shoulder to helmet sometimes can not be avoided or is caused by the offensive player..

FAX
10-18-2010, 11:41 PM
actually, it HASN'T always been THIS way. guys are stronger, faster and hit harder today than they ever have. from a physics standpoint, there IS an upper limit on safety when you have some of the guys running around doing the shit they're doing today.

All very true, Mr. H5N1. But, since that's the case, they need to either improve the pads and helmet, go back to leather, or remove them entirely ... like rugby. Some kind of space helmet thing might work. Spaceman helmets are designed to protect you when you plummet to Earth and smash into an SUV parked in downtown Baltimore.

The problem the NFL will have is that football was designed to be a violent game. Remove the hitting and you'll have to lower ticket prices to almost nothing.

The only way I can see this working is to establish "intent" somehow ... which is very difficult. Given the speed of the game, collisions are going to happen and a guy shouldn't be penalized when he inadvertently knocks another guy into next week.

FAX

blaise
10-18-2010, 11:42 PM
I agree.. He is putting player safety( which he wants to be the champion of) to have them play two more grueling games..

Guess what.. More people are going to get hurt playing two more regular season games then the two practice preseason games in which most teams do not even try except rookies and bubble players..

I think you misunderstand Goodell's motivation. He doesn't care if players get injured. I don't even think he's a champion of player safety because he cares personally about them. He cares about players being layed out prone on the field and being carted off on a stretcher, because that's not good for business.

Psyko Tek
10-18-2010, 11:43 PM
they need to improve the equipment
cause these hits are gonna happen

and yeah we (I) sorta like to see a great hit

KC Tattoo
10-18-2010, 11:44 PM
So a sack would be considered devastating I asume? So are the defenders suppose to ask the QB to take a knee or the ball carrier "hey stop I just touched you so I don't get suspended go down"


Steve Young was like duh change the name of the game... NFL Nut Flag League.

blaise
10-18-2010, 11:45 PM
defenseless, deliberate forearm and helmet to helmet I agree with..

shoulder to helmet sometimes can not be avoided or is caused by the offensive player..

That's why I said it will be hard to police. There's no way they can draw a line, really. They're going to have to judge on a case-by-case basis, and if they do it's going to make a lot of teams and players yell that it's unfair. One guy gets suspended, but another one doesn't for a similar hit.
I wonder what the union will say.

Jerm
10-18-2010, 11:45 PM
Any helmet to helmet hit or player leading with their helmet should be automatically ejected and suspended for either 4 games or however long the injured player is out for.

How the fuck did we get to the point where players leading with their helmets and basically spearing the shit out of other players has become accepted or even worse the norm. It's ridiculous.

Sadly the culture of football today isn't about fundamentals or wrapping up or tackling...it's about "jacking someone up" or delivering devastating hits.

You can still make huge hits but can also do it legally. Gotta do something or someone else gonna end up dying.

KC Tattoo
10-18-2010, 11:49 PM
OK I'm sold this is the new football League I'm gonna watch FU NFL

MTV2
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FAX
10-18-2010, 11:52 PM
Spearing has been illegal for a long time, hasn't it?

FAX

ILikeBigTiddys
10-19-2010, 12:32 AM
I like the hits

BigMeatballDave
10-19-2010, 12:34 AM
I dont like this rule, but hits like Harrison on Cribbs needs to be addressed.

johnny961
10-19-2010, 12:38 AM
I'm kinda up in the air on this. I can see where flagrant violations need to be addressed but can also see where it could result in unintentional hits being penalized.

BigMeatballDave
10-19-2010, 12:39 AM
they need to improve the equipment
cause these hits are gonna happen

and yeah we (I) sorta like to see a great hitThere really isnt anything you could do to a helmet to prevent injury. Its damn near impossible to defy a law of physics like inertia.