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View Full Version : Chiefs Lets Talk About Cassels Improvements


BossChief
10-18-2010, 11:30 PM
Many know that I have been a "hater" of the trade since way before day one. I hated everything the trade represented. I wanted OUR KID, not somebody elses backup and never saw Cassel as the type of guy worth taking a shot on as a veteran.

But, here we are. We have no choice and I know, like many of you, all I care about is this team winning games and having a shot at giving us a championship.When it all boils down, THAT'S IT. I still don't think that Cassel is the guy that can get us there, but I want to have a good conversation about what many of you think he is actually improving on.

Even the biggest haters have to admit the guy is improved his play from last year.

Here are a few things I think he is noticeably better at this year over last:

1) He is learning to avoid pressure and get rid of the ball instead of taking sacks.
2) He is developing the mental clock that quarterbacks have to possess. He still has work to do here, but he is improving.
3) Matt is throwing with a little better footwork and that is allowing him to be more accurate and throw with more zip.
4) He is trusting his blocking and looking for the open man more.
5) He is taking hits while releasing the ball. This is an area that seems completely new for the guy, it was one of the biggest knocks I had about him last year and is something that if he continues to do it and learns to be more accurate while doing so, he will start getting his teammates in his corner more and more.
6) He is doing a better job of holding the ball in the pocket to avoid getting stripped.
7) He is sliding in the pocket more and more and continuing to look at receivers instead of the rush...not all the time, but for the most part this is a true statement.

I know this will probably turn into a "Cassel hatred" thread, Lord knows I love a good one as much as the rest of you...but I will ask that even his staunchest "haters" try to add to this list of things that he is improving on and for the most part try to keep the hyperbole in one of the many other hate threads about the guy. Maybe even offer up a objective list of your own so that some here can know what to watch for so they don't stumble around here like drooling retards trying to defend the guy after he shits the bed (like when he overthrows my guy by 4 feet over his head and 4 yards behind the route and people try to blame the receiver, instead of the quarterback that cut off his throwing motion because of the pressure, instead of stepping into his throw while knowing he WILL take a shot to deliver an accurate ball)

I know its gonna be hard, but lets have a conversation about the good things the guy is doing so far in 2010, ok?

ILikeBigTiddys
10-18-2010, 11:32 PM
He still needs to dial it up a notch for the money he's getting

QuikSsurfer
10-18-2010, 11:33 PM
Impossible.

BossChief
10-18-2010, 11:37 PM
Fuck the money, its already done and if he doesn't show further marked improvement over the course of this year, there isn't any way he gets 13 million next year.

I agree he needs to step up big time if he is to EARN his roster bonus, its not even debatable.

Can't change the past.

RustShack
10-18-2010, 11:42 PM
The only improvements is the entire team around him. He is getting worse.

Phobia
10-18-2010, 11:43 PM
There's no doubt he showed improvement Sunday. That is unquestioned. But he folded in the crunch. None of his efforts was even close. I don't know how you improve intangibles.

Douche Baggins
10-18-2010, 11:49 PM
He's cut down on his profanities.

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BossChief
10-18-2010, 11:53 PM
The only improvements is the entire team around him. He is getting worse.NO, he isn't.

Water didn't turn into wine, but to say he is getting worse is totally ignorant.

If you disagree with any of my points in the OP, do so and we can all discuss it.

There's no doubt he showed improvement Sunday. That is unquestioned. But he folded in the crunch. None of his efforts was even close. I don't know how you improve intangibles.

Im not just talking about Sunday, either. I think he has improved a lot since the second half of game 2.

I wanted nothing more than for him to complete that ball to my boy, Tony MO to seal the deal....but he had super Mario right in his face when he released the ball and it got away from him...I am hoping that with more and more experience that in situations like that, he learns to step into that throw and have the heart to do so KNOWING he will get creamed...that is how you improve your intangibles as well...once teammates see that kind of play a couple times, they will sell their soul to the devil to make a play for the guy next time around. He also needs to grow by leaps and bounds in his reads (even though they are improved) because if he was better at it, he would have been clam enough to see Bowe coming wide open across the middle.

philfree
10-19-2010, 12:06 AM
There was a play where everyone was lining up wrong and Cassel actually stepped back and completed the pass. I think that shows he's making some progress.


PhilFree:arrow:

DeezNutz
10-19-2010, 12:08 AM
He isn't learning shit about getting the ball out more quickly. We've schemed to minimize his shortcomings (read: lots of hand-offs and pre-determined reads of less than 5 yards).

And avoiding pressure? LMAO.

The most impressive moments for Cassel this year have been:

1. hitting Bowe at the end of the half. Great throw into a small window.
2. grabbing DMC and putting him in position, pre-snap.

BossChief
10-19-2010, 12:09 AM
There was a play where everyone was lining up wrong and Cassel actually stepped back and completed the pass. I think that shows he's making some progress.


PhilFree:arrow:

Yeah, that is another thing I meant to add into the OP...he seems to have a good feel for the offense and is actually helping guys get lined up.

BossChief
10-19-2010, 12:14 AM
He isn't learning shit about getting the ball out more quickly. We've schemed to minimize his shortcomings (read: lots of hand-offs and pre-determined reads of less than 5 yards).

And avoid pressure? LMAO.

The single most impressive moments of Cassel this year have been:

1. hitting Bowe at the end of the half. Great throw into a small window.
2. grabbing DMC and putting him in position, pre-snap.I disagree.

He is throwing the ball away instead of taking sacks like he did last year. This is not only saving a bit of field position, it is keeping out quarterback from taking unnecessary hits (even though some of us would like the contrary to happen so the process of moving on can be sped up.)

I'm not saying he went from total crap to dreamy, but I do think I have seen little improvements in the areas I pointed out. Hopefully, he can continue to improve in small amounts and starts to get comfortable...that is a big step that in my experience helps to "slow the game down" and that is when players make plays and stop thinking so much.

DeezNutz
10-19-2010, 12:32 AM
I'm not saying he went from total crap to dreamy, but I do think I have seen little improvements in the areas I pointed out. Hopefully, he can continue to improve in small amounts and starts to get comfortable...that is a big step that in my experience helps to "slow the game down" and that is when players make plays and stop thinking so much.

The biggest criticism I've had of him is that he lacks presence on the field.

When he plays with confidence, he has much potential, but this happens far too infrequently. This is the byproduct, IMO, of many years as a scrub, and these types of intangibles cannot be learned at the highest level. Thus, we're spinning our wheels. But, I digress...

BossChief
10-19-2010, 12:51 AM
right or wrong?

In the situation Sunday when Mario is bearing down on him and he throws a poorly thrown ball in the direction of Moeaki...if that happens last year, he likely takes a sack.

...

I think the more trust he builds with Weis and the skill position players, the more they will bring him along and give him more opportunities to make plays instead of just being allowed to just dump the ball off.

This is a similar take to the one I had with Derrick Johnson last year with the way they made him earn his running downs back and until he did so, he was relegated to passing downs (nickle situations) now, something some said "you either are a physical defender or you arent" and now, he has transformed into a physical defender that sheds blocks and makes plays while staying disciplined. I have to take the credit in my takes on DJ last year and say that I totally nailed it.

Matt Cassel was put into a similar situation as DJ was initially...handed the starters role without having to earn it through competition.

Let me be clear, I dont know everything here, but I do have a damn good feel for the game and I think I am seeing a similar way of motivating Cassel. I think they are gonna make him earn the right to throw the ball intermediate to deep, until he shows a total command of the short passing game. I may be wrong here, but from a coaching standpoint, it makes perfect sense.

DJ was a poor run defender in a similar respect to how Cassel is a poor mid to deep ball thrower.

I guess time will tell if he ever improves in this area...for now, I trust Weis and his ability to make a difference in the guy the way he has done so far...I guess we will all know by the end of the year.

BryanBusby
10-19-2010, 01:01 AM
He hasn't shit his pants yet, I think?

DeezNutz
10-19-2010, 01:03 AM
right or wrong?

In the situation Sunday when Mario is bearing down on him and he throws a poorly thrown ball in the direction of Moeaki...if that happens last year, he likely takes a sack.


I'm supposed to say "right" when the truth is that he refused to step into the throw, which would have led (note proper word form, CP) to a completion but taking a significant hit?

Trent Green would have stepped into the throw.

Oh, and Albert should be taking more grief for this play.

BossChief
10-19-2010, 01:12 AM
My thoughts exactly.

That is why I am trying to key in on (as Bill Murray would say) "baby steps" that the guy is taking in the right direction.

I agree 100% that if he were to have gone full bore and stepped into that throw and taken a big shot for doing so, he would have sealed the deal for us and I BET ANYTHING that is exactly what Weis is telling him when they review film. At this point though, he did stand in and make the throw instead of going fetal position and taking a sack like he would have done last year.

That is improvement, be it ever so slight. Trent Green 2001 wouldn't have stepped up into that throw...Trent Green of 2002 would have though...

I am just trying to show that the guy IS, in fact, making progress from the total shit sandwich he fed us all last year when he made no mental mistakes.

Will he continue to do so until he starts to become the guy we need him to be? That is another matter and something that can only be proved one way or the other in the coming weeks and months.

Hopefully, its a fun ride that leaves us all with the taste of nice, ice cold KoolAid for years to come.

Rausch
10-19-2010, 01:15 AM
Yes, he's improving.

I don't want a fucking improving QB. I want a franchise QB.

It's like giving one guy a 30 mph head start from the flag and making the other guy drive a Ford Festiva from a dead stop.

He's also a pretty much a 3rd year QB without the benefit of being young...

BossChief
10-19-2010, 01:21 AM
Oh, and Albert should be taking more grief for this play.Yeah, this is true. But, one has to remember that the guy is a premier talent at his respective position and he is gonna "get his" I think Albert has done quite well blocking what may very well be two of the top five DEs in the NFL in consecutive weeks.

But yeah, his LJ quality "Ole' " on that play isnt getting enough radio time.


He's also a pretty much a 3rd year QB without the benefit of being young...

No matter how much it sucks to look at it this way, this is exactly what it is.

WHo knows, maybe the light switch turns on for the guy and he plays well into his late 30s or so because of him being a late bloomer...time will tell.

Rausch
10-19-2010, 01:55 AM
No matter how much it sucks to look at it this way, this is exactly what it is.

WHo knows, maybe the light switch turns on for the guy and he plays well into his late 30s or so because of him being a late bloomer...time will tell.

I can see the "Trent Green Argument" but I don't see the play.

Part of Green's problem was his knee that he had worked on again after his first year here. The other problem (line, WR's) was fixed going into the second.

There was a drastic change after game 3 with Green.

I don't see that here.

What is, is. You can feel, hope, or argue however you want but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

I was dead wrong about Trent and there's nothing I'd love more than to be dead wrong about C@$$hole...

kysirsoze
10-19-2010, 02:03 AM
My thoughts exactly.

That is why I am trying to key in on (as Bill Murray would say) "baby steps" that the guy is taking in the right direction.


Oh, FFS. I don't think I can handle "baby steps" with this dude. Like most, I look forward to eating crow, but this just isn't enough improvement.

Rausch
10-19-2010, 02:09 AM
Oh, FFS. I don't think I can handle "baby steps" with this dude. Like most, I look forward to eating crow, but this just isn't enough improvement.

...

http://chorpenning.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/1233928590_citizen-kane-clapping.gif

beach tribe
10-19-2010, 03:25 AM
C'mon Boss. Of course he was going to look better against Pollard, and the new 32 pass defense. We all knew this coming in.
I've said it before, These next 5 weeks(Houston included), are going to mind fuck this fan base, in to thinking he's much better than he is. I'm so glad these weren't the last games on our schedule.

farmerchief
10-19-2010, 03:35 AM
The biggest criticism I've had of him is that he lacks presence on the field.

When he plays with confidence, he has much potential, but this happens far too infrequently. This is the byproduct, IMO, of many years as a scrub, and these types of intangibles cannot be learned at the highest level. Thus, we're spinning our wheels. But, I digress...

I agree! It does seem like he really lacks confidence, although this game he seemed to be better. The two throws to Bowe for the TD's, couldnt have been better. I really couldnt believe he made those throws, but he showed the confidence to step into the throws and zip them in there.:clap: Who knows, he may be a capable QB, not a franchise building QB, IMO, but a capable one for the short term.

Rausch
10-19-2010, 03:40 AM
I agree! It does seem like he really lacks confidence...

Fucking really?

Have you talked to the guy or listened to any interview?

HE DOES NOT SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH HIS GAME...

Hog Farmer
10-19-2010, 03:40 AM
Because of Cassel we've lost two big games this year. Every aspect of our team has improved except our shitbag quarterback.

He's put together one good drive in 5 games and that was the opening drive against Houston.

Make all the points you want but you can't change the fact Cassel Sucks !

Rausch
10-19-2010, 03:41 AM
Because of Cassel we've lost two big games this year. Every aspect of our team has improved except our shitbag quarterback.


THIS!

crazycoffey
10-19-2010, 03:54 AM
..but I will ask that even his staunchest "haters" try to add to this list of things that he is improving on and for the most part try to keep the hyperbole in one of the many other hate threads about the guy.

Ok, I won't hate on him in this thread. Lord knows, I've been more of a staunch SUPPORTER of him last year and most of this year, however, I'm ready to give up on him.

1) He is learning to avoid pressure and get rid of the ball instead of taking sacks. he's getting rid of the ball a bit quicker, but that could have to do with the playcalling or him picking the check downs also
2) He is developing the mental clock that quarterbacks have to possess. He still has work to do here, but he is improving.I don't see that yet
3) Matt is throwing with a little better footwork and that is allowing him to be more accurate and throw with more zip.I really disagree with this. He's ALWAYS been capable of throwing one or two good passes a game, but he's not getting any more accurate or have any more zip than he ever has. I was always hoping that he'd get over the nerves or whatever is holding him back, but I don't think he is. I know I know - great game as a chiefs, however - I didn't see him play any differently. the rest of the team made him look better this week. That's just my opinion....
4) He is trusting his blocking and looking for the open man more. I'd hope he and the line are coming together, that would be what they are SUPPOSED to do!! LOL but I don't know that I'd make this statement as a plus in the Cassel corner as much as a plus in the coaches corners.
5) He is taking hits while releasing the ball. This is an area that seems completely new for the guy, it was one of the biggest knocks I had about him last year and is something that if he continues to do it and learns to be more accurate while doing so, he will start getting his teammates in his corner more and more. he's always taken hits and threw the ball, problem is that he's even more inaccurate when he takes hits.
6) He is doing a better job of holding the ball in the pocket to avoid getting stripped.
7) He is sliding in the pocket more and more and continuing to look at receivers instead of the rush...not all the time, but for the most part this is a true statement. I don't know how to respond to these two points. seems more circumstance than anything else.


Anyway, I'd love for him to really start to get it. But I don't know how much longer this team can really afford him as a liability. He clearly is, and has been since he got here, but I too had just been hoping that it would all come together. I just switched to the hater side this week. And it's NOT because of the last series alone.

I do hope I'm wrong.

crazycoffey
10-19-2010, 03:57 AM
LOL = I wasn't trying to be hateful in that one, at all.....

Rausch
10-19-2010, 04:19 AM
Anyway, I'd love for him to really start to get it. But I don't know how much longer this team can really afford him as a liability.

He's a POS pair of concrete flippers.

For fuck's sake, really, after 17 years of complete $3itbag QB's how the fuck can we not be on the same page here!?!...

crazycoffey
10-19-2010, 04:30 AM
oh, I was just playing the OP's game and not completely bash Matt.





But really, we are on the same page......

Pioli Zombie
10-19-2010, 04:34 AM
He's using up less toilet paper after he takes a shit than he did last year.

Rausch
10-19-2010, 04:38 AM
LOL = I wasn't trying to be hateful in that one, at all.....

Well then chap, we'll allow you a good and full effort 2nd try...

crazycoffey
10-19-2010, 04:48 AM
Well then chap, we'll allow you a good and full effort 2nd try...

You can't out angry drunk me tonight....

beach tribe
10-19-2010, 05:28 AM
C'mon Boss. The guy is not showing anything that he didn't show last year, and the year before. He's always had flashes when he's poised.
But he's still worried about the pass rush a lot of the time. He can take abuse, but he's not tough. He needs to do a couple "Ziggy sockys", change a starter on a 72 Hemi Cuda, ride a bull, drive some nails, and go hunting with Jared Allen. He's a Nancy boy, doofus.
(doofus is proprietary. No one shall use this word whole or in part without direct written consent of FAX)

Lbedrock1
10-19-2010, 06:44 AM
There's no doubt he showed improvement Sunday. That is unquestioned. But he folded in the crunch. None of his efforts was even close. I don't know how you improve intangibles.

I agree with you. The problem we are having with the Cassel die-hards are they can't see when he is missing on the throws other QB's make with ease. He is consistantly high on his throws almost like he doesn't practice. Although we would love him to be, we dont need him to be Brady or Manning we just need him to be close. He looks at one reciever and goes that way rather he is open or not. He needs to take command of this O and know where all his guys are on the field and remember he does have a check down in his running backs. He is not using his Tight end enough always looking for Bowe and he throws it to high or Bowe is dropping it. Moeaki can catch the ball and we should use him as a primary weapon to get our outside recievers open more, just as we use the TG and SD uses Gates.

Fritz88
10-19-2010, 06:57 AM
Not taking sacks is not really an improvement.

Reerun_KC
10-19-2010, 07:27 AM
The only improvements is the entire team around him. He is getting worse.

Wow great insight.

wutamess
10-19-2010, 07:48 AM
I, like a lot of you have failed to see the big picture and realize this is a process. I thought he didn't have ANY ABILITIES that warranted him to be our starting QB.

His throws were ducks. I've never seen a tight spiral. He's innacurate. Has tunnel vision. We had to game plan around him.. yada yada yada.

This Sunday, I finally saw ability. I came away from that game happy as a tornado in a trailer park because I now realize we might have a diamond in the rough. The ability's there people, but it's a process that doesn't happen over night. I think Haley has been handcuffing him for protection and is beginning to open the playbook more and more. I'm officially happy with his progression. He's now showing he can actually throw the ball like an NFL QB. I'll take the game winning drive later in his progression when the time starts. I'm willing to take baby steps as he becomes more comfortable within his team.

By years end, I expect Cassle to be a leader from the QB position. He's starting to possess fire and emotion and hold his teammates accountable. He's far from Brady or Manning but I'll take what I'm getting.

I was too impressed with what I saw last week and know that there will be road bumps, but you guys have to remember... This is only his second year starting for a new team and an offense he can really call his own. Anyone can chuck the ball to Welker and Moss and win 10-11 games. This is his real challange and last week I actually saw a faint light at the end of the tunnel.

Now if he can just build on it.

Coogs
10-19-2010, 08:18 AM
After 5 games, I would have to say Charlie Weis is earning his paycheck. Still a lot of work left to do, but you can see progress being made at the QB position. Haley is earning his paycheck to IMO. Both have handled the Cassel, Bowe, Charles, and Jones situation in a very professional way, and I think we are seeing a real team being built here. I don't want to change the theme of the thread with that comment, just wanted to add it in.

Just with respect to Cassel, I am seeing a much more confident QB emerging. The second half of the Cleveland game carried over to a pretty fair game against the 49ers. Surviving the pass rush against the Colts early, and then actually giving us a chance in the Colts game led to a very nice game against the Texans. Be interesting to see what transpires against the Jags at home Sunday. Hopefully more steps in a positive direction as opposed to a couple of steps backwards.

tmax63
10-19-2010, 08:24 AM
I'm not a big Cassel fan, I was but have toned it down alot, but I think folks still need to remember that he is starting his 3rd year as a starting QB and is on his 3rd OC and 2nd HC. His physical age is unimportant as Favre has shown you can play when you're 40 if you take care of yourself. I realize that Weiss is similar to Haley last year but still I'm sure there are differences. Some qb's get "it" fast but most take a few years and show improvements through the years. Is he 10-12million good, HELL NO, but he's showing improvement.
Some of you guys are sounding like Broncos fans. You're already setting up that if he continues to getter better then it's because of the other teams sucking, not because of anything Cassel can control. Just like the Bronco fans that tell me that they are the best team in the NFL and if they lose it's because the Donks screwed the pooch, not because the other team was better.
I don't want Cassel back at his current price tag but if they could renegotiate him down to a better deal I'd keep him and still draft a QB next spring. If not, then trade for a vet at a reasonable price and draft one.

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 09:42 AM
Many know that I have been a "hater" of the trade since way before day one. I hated everything the trade represented. I wanted OUR KID, not somebody elses backup and never saw Cassel as the type of guy worth taking a shot on as a veteran.

But, here we are. We have no choice and I know, like many of you, all I care about is this team winning games and having a shot at giving us a championship.When it all boils down, THAT'S IT. I still don't think that Cassel is the guy that can get us there, but I want to have a good conversation about what many of you think he is actually improving on.

Even the biggest haters have to admit the guy is improved his play from last year.

Here are a few things I think he is noticeably better at this year over last:

1) He is learning to avoid pressure and get rid of the ball instead of taking sacks.
2) He is developing the mental clock that quarterbacks have to possess. He still has work to do here, but he is improving.
3) Matt is throwing with a little better footwork and that is allowing him to be more accurate and throw with more zip.
4) He is trusting his blocking and looking for the open man more.
5) He is taking hits while releasing the ball. This is an area that seems completely new for the guy, it was one of the biggest knocks I had about him last year and is something that if he continues to do it and learns to be more accurate while doing so, he will start getting his teammates in his corner more and more.
6) He is doing a better job of holding the ball in the pocket to avoid getting stripped.
7) He is sliding in the pocket more and more and continuing to look at receivers instead of the rush...not all the time, but for the most part this is a true statement.

I know this will probably turn into a "Cassel hatred" thread, Lord knows I love a good one as much as the rest of you...but I will ask that even his staunchest "haters" try to add to this list of things that he is improving on and for the most part try to keep the hyperbole in one of the many other hate threads about the guy. Maybe even offer up a objective list of your own so that some here can know what to watch for so they don't stumble around here like drooling retards trying to defend the guy after he shits the bed (like when he overthrows my guy by 4 feet over his head and 4 yards behind the route and people try to blame the receiver, instead of the quarterback that cut off his throwing motion because of the pressure, instead of stepping into his throw while knowing he WILL take a shot to deliver an accurate ball)

I know its gonna be hard, but lets have a conversation about the good things the guy is doing so far in 2010, ok?

I like this thread. It always drives me crazy that some people will hate a guy so much that they struggle with threads like these.

I'm not a cassel fan either. But I agree that he's getting rid of the ball a LOT faster. Maybe too fast, though. He's also doing a much better job looking at different receiverd. A few people commented that he stared at moeaki and didn't see bowe and that's 100 percent untrue--watching the clip, I was actually happy to see him go through his progressions. I also think you're right about the 3rd and 2. He has to learn to step into that throw, but it was the right read and also blame albert for letting mario rush through that easily. What's strange to me is that cassel was shitty last year, but actually not bad in late game situations. We haven't really seen him play a comnplete game yet.

I have a lot of criticisms too, of course, but this thread wasn't built for that.

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 09:58 AM
Also, third down efficiency. I think we were 9 of 16, a lot of them were passes. If we did that against cleveland, we would have clubbed them. If we did that in indy, I think we win that one.

Pestilence
10-19-2010, 10:04 AM
I like this thread. It always drives me crazy that some people will hate a guy so much that they struggle with threads like these.

I'm not a cassel fan either. But I agree that he's getting rid of the ball a LOT faster. Maybe too fast, though. He's also doing a much better job looking at different receiverd. A few people commented that he stared at moeaki and didn't see bowe and that's 100 percent untrue--watching the clip, I was actually happy to see him go through his progressions. I also think you're right about the 3rd and 2. He has to learn to step into that throw, but it was the right read and also blame albert for letting mario rush through that easily. What's strange to me is that cassel was shitty last year, but actually not bad in late game situations. We haven't really seen him play a comnplete game yet.

I have a lot of criticisms too, of course, but this thread wasn't built for that.

So basically he's looking through his reads.....but he's making the wrong ones? Bowe was open on the play.

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 10:37 AM
So basically he's looking through his reads.....but he's making the wrong ones? Bowe was open on the play.

Covered a million times.

Moeaki was open too. I don't see why people are so pissed about him picking one receiver over another. If cassel leads his receiver, its an easy first down.

And on bowe, I've already showed footage that when cassel was looking at him, there was a d-back right in bowes territory. Cassel did the right thing to look away--the only way he finds bowe open is if he stares him down and waits for him to make his cut. Isn't that exactly what we told cassel not to do?

Right read, poor throw. I love how our opinion of how open bowe is is based on how open he was beyond 5 seconds of the snap.

Rausch
10-19-2010, 10:40 AM
You can't out angry drunk me tonight....

<-------------I'm not done yet...

B_Ambuehl
10-19-2010, 10:47 AM
I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit on any and all of those improvements.

The best Cassell ever looked was the first preseason game he played with the Chiefs. Since then it's been all downhill.

He's strictly a 1 read QB. He decides where to go with the ball before the snap. If his first option isn't WIDE open he shits the bed in multiple ways. On that TD to Vrabel he nearly didn't even see Mike Vrabel in the end zone and when he did see him he nearly missed him with the pass.

Matt Cassell can succeed at QB but only under 1 condition: As long as the OC/playcaller draw up plays that will have the first option WIDE open Cassell is good enough to do that. Every big pass he completed sunday met that condition because houston has a very predictable scheme.
Expect him to progress thru reads or do anything outside the framework of the offense and he's worthless. He was that way in New England and he's still that way here.

FAX
10-19-2010, 11:01 AM
Lets Talk About Cassels Improvements

Well ...

... he hasn't tried to eat the football again.

FAX

Pitt Gorilla
10-19-2010, 11:15 AM
Because of Cassel we've lost two big games this year. Every aspect of our team has improved except our shitbag quarterback.

He's put together one good drive in 5 games and that was the opening drive against Houston.

Make all the points you want but you can't change the fact Cassel Sucks !The Houston loss is NOT on Cassel.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-19-2010, 11:18 AM
JFC, and so it begins.

"Well, I saw improvement in a game where he played the worst pass defense in the league and faced almost no pressure all day and where our backs gained 200 yards, and his receivers made great plays on two of his touchdowns..."

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 11:27 AM
JFC, and so it begins.

"Well, I saw improvement in a game where he played the worst pass defense in the league and faced almost no pressure all day and where our backs gained 200 yards, and his receivers made great plays on two of his touchdowns..."


I think you're misinterpreting the point of the thread. We all know cassel has a very long way to go and most of us think he'll never get there.

We've all talked ad nauseum about his flaws, myself included. we don't need yet another thread on that. Much as I dislike cassel, I think this is an interesting thread if people put their cassel hatred aside, as bosschiefs did.

Chiefnj2
10-19-2010, 11:30 AM
Any Cassel debate is useless. 99% of the board wants KC to draft a franchise QB. Of those 99% - half are willing to give Cassel some credit when he shows some improvement, the other half will never say anything good about him. Every catch is a miracle catch by the WR and the result of impeccable pass protection.

Rausch
10-19-2010, 11:30 AM
Lets Talk About Cassels Improvements

Wait, why is this plural?...

Hog Farmer
10-19-2010, 11:34 AM
The Houston loss is NOT on Cassel.


Yes it is. The last play of the game he took a sack when he was supposed to throw a touchdown !

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-19-2010, 11:41 AM
No comment.(keepin' it positive!)

Hydrae
10-19-2010, 12:14 PM
I found myself thinking good thoughts about Cassell after the play where he grabbed McCluster, made him stand next to him while the ball was hiked and then threw a strike to Moeaki for the first down. He seemed pissed and acted like a leader on the field for the first time ever. He actually had emotion, he was pissed that McCluster and Bowe couldn't figure out where they needed to be after a time out and delay of game already.

Unfortunately I did not see that emotion and fire again the rest of the game. I am not wanting a crybaby like Rivers but some fire and onfield leadership would be a great thing to see.

Lonewolf Ed
10-19-2010, 12:24 PM
I agree with #3 but I can't tell much improvement where #4 is concerned.

Coogs
10-19-2010, 12:25 PM
I found myself thinking good thoughts about Cassell after the play where he grabbed McCluster, made him stand next to him while the ball was hiked and then threw a strike to Moeaki for the first down. He seemed pissed and acted like a leader on the field for the first time ever. He actually had emotion, he was pissed that McCluster and Bowe couldn't figure out where they needed to be after a time out and delay of game already.

Unfortunately I did not see that emotion and fire again the rest of the game. I am not wanting a crybaby like Rivers but some fire and onfield leadership would be a great thing to see.

I have to admit that play shocked me! I was expecting for a big FAIL as that play started to unfold. Something on the order of a pick-six.

BossChief
10-19-2010, 03:29 PM
C'mon Boss. Of course he was going to look better against Pollard, and the new 32 pass defense. We all knew this coming in.
I've said it before, These next 5 weeks(Houston included), are going to mind fuck this fan base, in to thinking he's much better than he is. I'm so glad these weren't the last games on our schedule.This thread isnt only about this one game...it is about this seasons progress after the first half of the Browns game on...

Not taking sacks is not really an improvement.Yes it is. At this point last year he had taken 19 sacks over the first 5 games...this year he is throwing the ball away and getting it out of his hands (by scheme and awareness) and has only gotten sacked 4 times in 5 games.

That helps the team get a lot more field goals from the field position battles and has helped us win games we would have lost last year.

Give credit to Weis as well, maybe even an equal amount, but Cassel has to be given credit where its due.

JFC, and so it begins.

"Well, I saw improvement in a game where he played the worst pass defense in the league and faced almost no pressure all day and where our backs gained 200 yards, and his receivers made great plays on two of his touchdowns..."

Oh, sorry...forgive me for trying to look at both sides of the coin to try and get to the truth.

I HATE Cassel. I hate that BS "hey guys, who took my milk?" look on his face...I hate having to fear passing downs...I hate our team being lead by a career backup that looks like one to this day. I hate "shopping at goodwill and paying with a platinum credit card."

BUT

I also want to open the door for showing his improvements, as well. I am trying to show the little things I see that he has noticeably improved over last year...again this isn't only about the Houston game, its about his play since the second half of game 2.

If I knew how to compute his QB rating over that span, I bet its one of the better ones in the league over that timeframe.

Again, for those that just let the hate blind their objectivity...I AM NOT saying he is growing by leaps and bounds, merely trying to illustrate the fact that he is making improvements to his game (that are ever so slight) that may be getting overlooked because of how much we hate the guy.

Ralphy Boy
10-19-2010, 03:54 PM
I'm not going to read the entire thread just to see if someone else already said this, so blow me if its a repost.

I don't have much in the way of positive things to say about him, but I am seeing improvement. In terms of the Houston game specifically I would , Cassel had a better QB rating against the Texans than any every other QB that played them except for Romo.

Eli Manning 89.1, Gradkowski 78.8, Romo 127.6, McNabb 119.0, Peyton Manning 109.8.

Cassel 122.9

blazzin311
10-19-2010, 03:59 PM
Nice take BossChief....I agree with everything you said. I also don't think Cassel is the answer (like most of you here on CP) but at the same time I can't deny that his level of play this year is definitely up from last year. How far that's gonna take us I don't know, but at least the Chiefs have a favorable schedule the rest of the way. They should be (knock on wood) 6-2 probably after the next 3 games against Jax., Buf., and Oak. the next two of which are at Arrowhead. I'd certainly be happy if the Chiefs came out of that stretch 6-2. That's prime position to win the AFC West and make the playoffs if you ask me. Now going on to win in the playoffs if indeed they make it, is another story entirely. I'm not sure the Chiefs are ready to win any playoffs games this year but we can hope right.

Douche Baggins
10-19-2010, 06:15 PM
On that TD to Vrabel he nearly didn't even see Mike Vrabel in the end zone and when he did see him he nearly missed him with the pass.


This.

I was shocked how far behind him he threw given the short nature of the pass, how wide the fuck open Vrabel was and the fact there was 0 pressure on Cassel.

OnTheWarpath58
10-19-2010, 06:18 PM
I'm not going to read the entire thread just to see if someone else already said this, so blow me if its a repost.

I don't have much in the way of positive things to say about him, but I am seeing improvement. In terms of the Houston game specifically I would , Cassel had a better QB rating against the Texans than any every other QB that played them except for Romo.

Eli Manning 89.1, Gradkowski 78.8, Romo 127.6, McNabb 119.0, Peyton Manning 109.8.

Cassel 122.9

QB rating is a poor way to determine performance in one game.

IIRC, Cassel had a similar rating in the Philly game last year.

Would you say he played good in that game?

milkman
10-19-2010, 06:21 PM
QB rating is a poor way to determine performance in one game.

IIRC, Cassel had a similar rating in the Philly game last year.

Would you say he played good in that game?

QB rating is a piss poor way to determine a QBs performance in any way.

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 06:41 PM
On that TD to Vrabel he nearly didn't even see Mike Vrabel in the end zone and when he did see him he nearly missed him with the pass.

The first point is completely untrue. And he didn't almost miss him with the pass. Christ, people can find shit in a snowstorm. If he's at fault for anything, it's firing a pass at an inexperienced receiver, but that's a stupid complaint.

Cassel's execution of this play was just fine.

PGM
10-19-2010, 06:44 PM
The first point is completely untrue. And he didn't almost miss him with the pass. Christ, people can find shit in a snowstorm. If he's at fault for anything, it's firing a pass at an inexperienced receiver, but that's a stupid complaint.

Cassel's execution of this play was just fine.

Just ignore B, he's pretty clueless about football. I doubt he knows WTF he's watching.

Douche Baggins
10-19-2010, 06:48 PM
Cassel's execution of this play was just fine.

No, it wasn't.

He clearly threw the pass behind him, and he should have put a little air under it.

It was an obvious difficult catch for Vrabel.

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 07:00 PM
No, it wasn't.

He clearly threw the pass behind him, and he should have put a little air under it.

It was an obvious difficult catch for Vrabel.

94806

There are two defenders closing the passing window. Maybe Cassel could put a little air into it, but good chance it gets picked off by one of the closing defenders or he has to throw it over a defender's head, which gives the defender closing in on Vrabel time to adjust to the play. Firing it on that play is fine.

Also note that Vrabel is a stationary target. He's not moving, except that he's taking very small drift steps to his left.

94807

Vrabel being a stationary target, there is no such thing as "behind the receiver." He was standing there with his hands in front of him waiting for the ball. Cassel threw the ball to Vrabel's right shoulder. Vrabel didn't even have to move his body to make the adjustment to the catch. It wasn't a pass between the numbers, but the pass was just fine.

Credit Vrabel for being an inexperienced receiver making that catch. But to say Cassel did anything wrong on that play is nitpicking.

Douche Baggins
10-19-2010, 07:06 PM
WTF?

If he puts a little air under it and throws it to the back of the end zone, no one is getting that ball but Vrabel, and it's an easy catch.

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 07:07 PM
No, it wasn't.

He clearly threw the pass behind him, and he should have put a little air under it.

It was an obvious difficult catch for Vrabel.

Two better views:
94808

94809

Point #1 - Defenders closed the window as soon as that ball is released. Putting air on the ball gets the ball tipped.

Point #2 - The ball was not "clearly" behind Vrabel. The throw was within his body, thrown on the run.

It was not a badly executed play by any stretch.

RustShack
10-19-2010, 07:08 PM
Cassel defenders really don't know much about football, or the QB position.

Tuckdaddy
10-19-2010, 07:09 PM
NO, he isn't.

Water didn't turn into wine, but to say he is getting worse is totally ignorant.

If you disagree with any of my points in the OP, do so and we can all discuss it.



Im not just talking about Sunday, either. I think he has improved a lot since the second half of game 2.

I wanted nothing more than for him to complete that ball to my boy, Tony MO to seal the deal....but he had super Mario right in his face when he released the ball and it got away from him...I am hoping that with more and more experience that in situations like that, he learns to step into that throw and have the heart to do so KNOWING he will get creamed...that is how you improve your intangibles as well...once teammates see that kind of play a couple times, they will sell their soul to the devil to make a play for the guy next time around. He also needs to grow by leaps and bounds in his reads (even though they are improved) because if he was better at it, he would have been clam enough to see Bowe coming wide open across the middle.

I agree. He definitely is not getting worse. That's a crazy statement. Matt needs to play with more fire and find some fearlessness. I wish he could develope a winners attitude. REFUSE TO LOSE MATT!

Douche Baggins
10-19-2010, 07:11 PM
"closed the window"

That's just ridiculous. There's a huge amount of room to throw that football.

Putting it where Cassel put it made it more difficult for Vrabel to bring it in.

Tuckdaddy
10-19-2010, 07:12 PM
No, it wasn't.

He clearly threw the pass behind him, and he should have put a little air under it.

It was an obvious difficult catch for Vrabel.

You must be high. Difficult catch? What the hell ever.

teedubya
10-19-2010, 07:12 PM
IMO this thread has WAY too many posts.


Reply on post #2 should have said. "none" Thread over.

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 07:14 PM
WTF?

If he puts a little air under it and throws it to the back of the end zone, no one is getting that ball but Vrabel, and it's an easy catch.

Except that to get it over the two defenders who would have closed the window, you would have to put quite a bit of air to get it over those two defenders without getting the ball tipped.

And that's just enough time for #53 to dive in and make the play.
94810

FAX
10-19-2010, 07:14 PM
Casscan didn't see Vrabel because Vrabel went invisible!!!

FAX

Ralphy Boy
10-19-2010, 07:17 PM
QB rating is a poor way to determine performance in one game.

IIRC, Cassel had a similar rating in the Philly game last year.

Would you say he played good in that game?

I was under the impression that we were supposed to post something nice. Kind of like a retirement/going away party for some idiot at work that you really don't like. You feel like you have to say something nice and since I had nothing nice to say, I offered what I did.

Wait... is he not leaving? :cuss:

Douche Baggins
10-19-2010, 07:18 PM
You must be high. Difficult catch? What the hell ever.

It wasn't an easy catch. He had to suddenly jerk his hands awkwardly to his right because the ball was thrown in a shitty spot.

If Vrabel drops that ball, Cassel takes most of the blame.

Coogs
10-19-2010, 07:18 PM
JFC, give the guy a break this week. Dude played a hell of a game. Even led us to 10 points... AFTER... Houston had closed the lead back down to 7 and then down to 3. Give it a rest. Defense lost this one. Defense has won a couple too. No need for picking on them either.

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 07:20 PM
"closed the window"

That's just ridiculous. There's a huge amount of room to throw that football.

Putting it where Cassel put it made it more difficult for Vrabel to bring it in.

I could do this all day, as long as you keep posting stuff that's totally wrong.
94811

Considering he fired that ball in there, that's a tight window.

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 07:23 PM
It wasn't an easy catch. He had to suddenly jerk his hands awkwardly to his right because the ball was thrown in a shitty spot.

If Vrabel drops that ball, Cassel takes most of the blame.

ROFL Jerked his hands "awkwardly" to the right?

An experienced receiver lifts his hands and catches it with his hands. The only reason the catch was awkward was because Vrabel caught it with his body with his hands underneath the ball.

Look at the images. And just admit that you're wrong. Vrabel is stationary. Cassel throws it through a closing window. The ball is well within arms reach of Vrabel who, since he is not moving, has the liberty of moving in either direction.

FAX
10-19-2010, 07:24 PM
I'm not clicking on that wacky link deal, but it looked to me as though Vrabel was pretty darn open. There were defenders between him and Casspipe ... sort of. But, he got lost in the crowd at the LOS and, so far as I remember, nobody really covered him.

FAX

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 07:25 PM
I'm not clicking on that wacky link deal, but it looked to me as though Vrabel was pretty darn open. There were defenders between him and Casspipe ... sort of. But, he got lost in the crowd at the LOS and, so far as I remember, nobody really covered him.

FAX

Ha. Sorry, bud, no idea how to paste an image onto a post.

FAX
10-19-2010, 07:27 PM
Ha. Sorry, bud, no idea how to paste an image onto a post.

Oh, it's okay, Mr. chiefzilla1501. No problems, here.

It's just that I try to be careful when clicking on link deals, in general. One never knows what evil lurks behind a link deal.

FAX

Douche Baggins
10-19-2010, 07:28 PM
I could do this all day, as long as you keep posting stuff that's totally wrong.
94811

Considering he fired that ball in there, that's a tight window.

You buffoon. If he puts air under the ball he doesn't have to throw it between those two defenders.

PGM
10-19-2010, 07:31 PM
So, now there are style points deducted and awarded for completed passes?

MadMax
10-19-2010, 07:31 PM
He did not shit himself is all I have to say...

milkman
10-19-2010, 07:32 PM
You buffoon. If he puts air under the ball he doesn't have to throw it between those two defenders.

I'm not clicking on that.

I do remember when watching the game wondering why the hell it took cassel so long to make that throw, and in the replay saw a defender between he and Varbel that would have forced him to put air under the ball.

He moved and and created a passing lane.

In the end, that's the way I want him to handle it, because I don't want him to put air under the ball on that throw, because it likely never comes close to hitting Vrabel.

Ralphy Boy
10-19-2010, 07:32 PM
I could do this all day, as long as you keep posting stuff that's totally wrong.
94811

Considering he fired that ball in there, that's a tight window.

Certainly not going to pile on with GoChiefs but I get what he and others are saying. As I recall the play in my head Vrabel was essentially mirroring Cassel, both were moving toward the right side of the end zone. He could have put the ball over the defender and Vrabel would have had an easier catch, but GIVE ME A FUGGIN BREAK on this play. He threw a TD. Was it a beautiful pass, no but it worked. Fact is you could argue that Vrabel could/should have been moving faster to the back corner of the endzone so that Cassel would have had an easier target.

Either way, picking on how a TD pass was thrown is stupid and shows that some people will never be objective because of their hatred for him. I don't like him but he had a pretty good game. Could it have been better? Sure.

Douche Baggins
10-19-2010, 07:32 PM
So, now there are style points deducted and awarded for completed passes?

It goes back to what people were saying last year when we led the league in dropped passes or something...

It has a lot to do with who's throwing the ball and where he puts it.

That pass to Vrabel could have been thrown a lot better. I wouldn't have blamed Vrabel, a freaking linebacker, for dropping it. I would have blamed Cassel for throwing a poor ball.

Coogs
10-19-2010, 07:36 PM
Certainly not going to pile on with GoChiefs but I get what he and others are saying. As I recall the play in my head Vrabel was essentially mirroring Cassel, both were moving toward the right side of the end zone. He could have put the ball over the defender and Vrabel would have had an easier catch, but GIVE ME A FUGGIN BREAK on this play. He threw a TD. Was it a beautiful pass, no but it worked. Fact is you could argue that Vrabel could/should have been moving faster to the back corner of the endzone so that Cassel would have had an easier target.

Either way, picking on how a TD pass was thrown is stupid and shows that some people will never be objective because of their hatred for him. I don't like him but he had a pretty good game. Could it have been better? Sure.

One 3rd and 2 pass completion better. And FWIW, Manning was 0-3 in the on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down in nearly the same situation... Washington just didn't score a TD to beat the Colts. Shit happens! :shrug:

FAX
10-19-2010, 07:40 PM
Certainly not going to pile on with GoChiefs but I get what he and others are saying. As I recall the play in my head Vrabel was essentially mirroring Cassel, both were moving toward the right side of the end zone. He could have put the ball over the defender and Vrabel would have had an easier catch, but GIVE ME A FUGGIN BREAK on this play. He threw a TD. Was it a beautiful pass, no but it worked. Fact is you could argue that Vrabel could/should have been moving faster to the back corner of the endzone so that Cassel would have had an easier target.

Either way, picking on how a TD pass was thrown is stupid and shows that some people will never be objective because of their hatred for him. I don't like him but he had a pretty good game. Could it have been better? Sure.

Well put, Mr. Ralphy Boy.

FAX

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 07:40 PM
Certainly not going to pile on with GoChiefs but I get what he and others are saying. As I recall the play in my head Vrabel was essentially mirroring Cassel, both were moving toward the right side of the end zone. He could have put the ball over the defender and Vrabel would have had an easier catch, but GIVE ME A FUGGIN BREAK on this play. He threw a TD. Was it a beautiful pass, no but it worked. Fact is you could argue that Vrabel could/should have been moving faster to the back corner of the endzone so that Cassel would have had an easier target.

Either way, picking on how a TD pass was thrown is stupid and shows that some people will never be objective because of their hatred for him. I don't like him but he had a pretty good game. Could it have been better? Sure.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81b61736/Vrabel-scores-on-TD-catch
You have it spot on. Vrabel is drifting, but he is mostly stationary. Even as Cassel runs right. You lob that ball and 53 has a chance to close in on the play. You throw it more toward the corner and you force a stationary target to move his feet to adjust to the ball.

And I agree on all your points. Again, as I've said before, I chalk this up to good playcalling that made the execution fairly easy. But there are a million and a half ways a different approach could have gone wrong.

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 07:43 PM
It goes back to what people were saying last year when we led the league in dropped passes or something...

It has a lot to do with who's throwing the ball and where he puts it.

That pass to Vrabel could have been thrown a lot better. I wouldn't have blamed Vrabel, a freaking linebacker, for dropping it. I would have blamed Cassel for throwing a poor ball.

A poor ball?

It's because he's trying to catch a ball at his shoulders with his arms cradled underneath it.

To an experienced receiver, you just throw your hands up in the air. It's not a bad pass by any stretch. It only looks that way because Vrabel isn't experienced, but that's certainly no reason to blame Cassel.

I know people are reluctant to click on the links (I have no idea how to attach). Can anyone recommend how I can upload a .jpg from my desktop to the thread? It's as clear as day.

MadMax
10-19-2010, 07:46 PM
We loves us some Matty up in dis bitch!!! ROFL!!!!

Coogs
10-19-2010, 07:51 PM
Can anyone recommend how I can upload a .jpg from my desktop to the thread? It's as clear as day.

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010101704/2010/REG6/chiefs@texans#tab:watch

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 07:55 PM
Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010101704/2010/REG6/chiefs@texans#tab:watch

Well, that clip is the one I've been using. I have no idea how to upload a .jpg onto the post, so I instead used the "attachments" icon on top of the thread. That's why I've been posting links instead of pictures.

But in that clip, the replay pretty clearly shows all the key points. #1 - the throw is very catchable and doesn't require nearly the kind of adjustment that it looks like in the regular view. Cassel actually does a good job of selling the throw and forcing #56 to drift to the sideline and he fires the ball just before #59 can speed in to close that window.

Coogs
10-19-2010, 07:58 PM
Well, that clip is the one I've been using. I have no idea how to upload a .jpg onto the post, so I instead used the "attachments" icon on top of the thread. That's why I've been posting links instead of pictures.

But in that clip, the replay pretty clearly shows all the key points. #1 - the throw is very catchable and doesn't require nearly the kind of adjustment that it looks like in the regular view. Cassel actually does a good job of selling the throw and forcing #56 to drift to the sideline and he fires the ball just before #59 can speed in to close that window.

I can't help you either I guess. But I totally agree with your take on this play.

-King-
10-19-2010, 08:00 PM
Well, that clip is the one I've been using. I have no idea how to upload a .jpg onto the post, so I instead used the "attachments" icon on top of the thread. That's why I've been posting links instead of pictures.

But in that clip, the replay pretty clearly shows all the key points. #1 - the throw is very catchable and doesn't require nearly the kind of adjustment that it looks like in the regular view. Cassel actually does a good job of selling the throw and forcing #56 to drift to the sideline and he fires the ball just before #59 can speed in to close that window.

Lol, just use an image uploader like tinypic or imageshack, it will give you the link and you can paste it on here using the tags.

Anywho...here you go [IMG]http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/451/attachmentrk.jpg Happy birthday

GloryDayz
10-19-2010, 08:03 PM
Many know that I have been a "hater" of the trade since way before day one. I hated everything the trade represented. I wanted OUR KID, not somebody elses backup and never saw Cassel as the type of guy worth taking a shot on as a veteran.

But, here we are. We have no choice and I know, like many of you, all I care about is this team winning games and having a shot at giving us a championship.When it all boils down, THAT'S IT. I still don't think that Cassel is the guy that can get us there, but I want to have a good conversation about what many of you think he is actually improving on.

Even the biggest haters have to admit the guy is improved his play from last year.

Here are a few things I think he is noticeably better at this year over last:

1) He is learning to avoid pressure and get rid of the ball instead of taking sacks.
2) He is developing the mental clock that quarterbacks have to possess. He still has work to do here, but he is improving.
3) Matt is throwing with a little better footwork and that is allowing him to be more accurate and throw with more zip.
4) He is trusting his blocking and looking for the open man more.
5) He is taking hits while releasing the ball. This is an area that seems completely new for the guy, it was one of the biggest knocks I had about him last year and is something that if he continues to do it and learns to be more accurate while doing so, he will start getting his teammates in his corner more and more.
6) He is doing a better job of holding the ball in the pocket to avoid getting stripped.
7) He is sliding in the pocket more and more and continuing to look at receivers instead of the rush...not all the time, but for the most part this is a true statement.

I know this will probably turn into a "Cassel hatred" thread, Lord knows I love a good one as much as the rest of you...but I will ask that even his staunchest "haters" try to add to this list of things that he is improving on and for the most part try to keep the hyperbole in one of the many other hate threads about the guy. Maybe even offer up a objective list of your own so that some here can know what to watch for so they don't stumble around here like drooling retards trying to defend the guy after he shits the bed (like when he overthrows my guy by 4 feet over his head and 4 yards behind the route and people try to blame the receiver, instead of the quarterback that cut off his throwing motion because of the pressure, instead of stepping into his throw while knowing he WILL take a shot to deliver an accurate ball)

I know its gonna be hard, but lets have a conversation about the good things the guy is doing so far in 2010, ok?

Sorry, he's a backup at best...

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 08:04 PM
Lol, just use an image uploader like tinypic or imageshack, it will give you the link and you can paste it on here using the tags.

Anywho...here you go [IMG]http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/451/attachmentrk.jpg Happy birthday

Thanks, bud.

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 08:06 PM
Here you go. This is the so horribly misplaced terribly thrown ball that forced such an awkward pass.

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/5162/vrabel5.jpg

KC Tattoo
10-19-2010, 08:11 PM
He showed enough improvement to keep Brodie on clipboard duties. I'm not going to like the guy unless he wins us something big. He must kill the donkos and faiders, and win us at least a playoff game this year. This off-season regardless of Matty Cassels play, I want us to draft a QBotf to groom and be "our" guy(like i've wanted since 1993 the failure of Joe Montana & rehash QBs that followed).

I want to see major improvement from Cassel he is 28yo and shouldn't be babied like he is, he has been in the league long enough not to be treated and act like a rookie. I do think he is improving, much I think it's the coaches and players around him for supporting cast. I liked the first drive he had against the Texans, that was a nice drive he orchestrated & not relying on the running game for it. I want to see him do that more consistently, he needs to play loser and not have a cob up his ass. I know he can play good at times, he shouldn't have regressed that much from playing at New England to begin with. If he could prove he can take us to play offs year in and year out over the next oh 6-7 seasons and gives us a chance to win a Super Bowl then I will crown his ass. In the mean time I don't want him ruining (****ing up) a good thing we got going on for this team.

Douche Baggins
10-19-2010, 08:12 PM
Dude, it was an awkward catch, there's no arguing that.

There's fucking NOBODY around Vrabel. Throw that ball a couple yards in front of him...make it easy on him.

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 08:15 PM
Dude, it was an awkward catch, there's no arguing that.

There's ****ing NOBODY around Vrabel. Throw that ball a couple yards in front of him...make it easy on him.

I don't know how you can look at that photo and claim that it was an awkward catch, given that he was a stationary target and there is no "in front of him" or "behind him."

FAX
10-19-2010, 08:17 PM
Casspan on the move. Throwin' the touchdown. Makin' it look easy. Goin' to the bench. Eatin' some dandelions.

FAX

Douche Baggins
10-19-2010, 08:19 PM
I don't know how you can look at that photo and claim that it was an awkward catch, given that he was a stationary target and there is no "in front of him" or "behind him."

Because I watched the game, and saw Vrabel awkwardly jerk his hands to the right. He looked uncomfortable doing it, and for a fraction of a second I thought he was going to drop it.

FAX
10-19-2010, 08:20 PM
Mr. chiefzilla1501, there are some relentless dudes on this board, but you are like unto a Terminator with new batteries.

FAX

KurtCobain
10-19-2010, 08:24 PM
i agree that cassel has improved at sucking penis. and i am impressed.


1. he used to always take long breaths while he was down there and he would look at me and truth be told, it creeped me out. but he doesn't do th anymore. this is good.


2. right before he finishes he nibbles on it a little bit and it really gets me going.



3. he swallows. i used to smack him with a vase wheb he would spit,
Posted via Mobile Device

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 08:27 PM
Because I watched the game, and saw Vrabel awkwardly jerk his hands to the right. He looked uncomfortable doing it, and for a fraction of a second I thought he was going to drop it.

Watch the second replay again. I have taken a million snapshots of it.

There was no awkward jerking of the hands. He puts his hands up, adjusts his body to the right, and he comes down with it. A nice catch from an inexperienced receiver, but if it's off-target, it's a matter of inches away from the breadbasket.

Did I mention that picture is up a few posts up that clearly shows the throw was just to the right of his numbers?

chiefzilla1501
10-19-2010, 08:28 PM
Mr. chiefzilla1501, there are some relentless dudes on this board, but you are like unto a Terminator with new batteries.

FAX

meth is a hell of a drug

mcaj22
10-19-2010, 08:30 PM
if you put in this perspective (which you all should)...

I'm not going to start giving Cassel any credit on improvements until I see him do things like Matt Schaub did to us on Sunday. Cassel is 28, Schaub is 29... for being only 1 year apart in age there was quite the different talent level at the QB position out there. A 21 point 4th quarter comeback type talent.

When Cassel leads us to a 21 point 4th quarter victory, is when I'll start calling for the improvement card.

KurtCobain
10-19-2010, 08:36 PM
oh and he fingers my gooch while he's blowing me and during the foreplay he tells me how nice i look in my new suspenders. god that's some improvement from last time.
Posted via Mobile Device

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-19-2010, 08:52 PM
i agree that cassel has improved at sucking penis. and i am impressed.


1. he used to always take long breaths while he was down there and he would look at me and truth be told, it creeped me out. but he doesn't do th anymore. this is good.


2. right before he finishes he nibbles on it a little bit and it really gets me going.



3. he swallows. i used to smack him with a vase wheb he would spit,
Posted via Mobile Device

oh and he fingers my gooch while he's blowing me and during the foreplay he tells me how nice i look in my new suspenders. god that's some improvement from last time.
Posted via Mobile Device

ROFL Rep.

thigpenfan
10-19-2010, 08:52 PM
oh and he fingers my gooch while he's blowing me and during the foreplay he tells me how nice i look in my new suspenders. god that's some improvement from last time.
Posted via Mobile Device

You took that too a whole nother level of creepy :clap:

johnny961
10-19-2010, 09:07 PM
I was a Cassel supporter all of last year and even up to the start of this season when everybody else hated. That being said, after watching Cassel for over a year, he's showed nothing much better than mediocre play IMO. True, he did look a little better Sunday. And, I do not blame this loss on him. 31 points should be enough to win just about any game. But I've come to the conclusion that mediocre is all we're gonna get from this guy. And I, as a fan, want somebody who is good enough to elevate the play of those around him, not just good enough to get by. I'd still like to see him succeed here as he is a good guy off the field and a hard worker, but after watching over a year of the guy I'm just not sold. I hope I'm eating crow on this one but I'll need to see more than one decent game against a poor defense before I can honestly say I'm sold on this guy as our QB.

TinyEvel
10-20-2010, 12:56 AM
This right here is precisely why people with less than 7,000 posts shouldn't be able to start threads!!!

Reerun_KC
10-20-2010, 06:12 AM
Cassel defenders really don't know much about football, or the QB position.

But as long as your bitching non stop about every little thing he does good or bad, and you hate Cassel.. Then your a football expert?

got it...

KC Tattoo
10-20-2010, 07:05 AM
I question the ability for Mat Cassel to audible out of a play call and change play. He does a good job of getting the team to the line and delay of game has not been the problem. Weis or any other OC can not see the same thing that the QB does and the good QBs are allowed to audible if they see something that would make sense to change play. I think he sticks with the play given to him regardless of defense, and through out the game there are times you need to be able to audible. I don't think the coaches trust Cassel in doing that but he needs to learn how. I wouldn't trust him eather but at this level and the money he gets, the time he has been in the league, he should be able too. I have yet to hear any one bring this up. That's why that third and two play that Cassel failed to deliver to Moekie is on Cassel. He is the QB, it's his job to get the first down in those situations. Doing audibles can make a big difference if you got a guy you can trust and make good decisions with it. Any body else think that is a problem too?

PGM
10-20-2010, 07:12 AM
But as long as your bitching non stop about every little thing he does good or bad, and you hate Cassel.. Then your a football expert?

got it...

I'm still searching for these mythical Cassel defenders ROFL

I'd say everyone here would like a new QB next year. There isn't a better one on the roster (sorry Brodie disciples), so not much they can do now.

Chiefnj2
10-20-2010, 07:19 AM
Cassel's best game so far, against a horrible pass D, was the game where Weis opened it up a bit more. Maybe he'll play a little better with a more relaxed playcalling atmosphere. Bradford has done well this year without having much of a leash. Sanchez played a lot better this year once the leash was removed. Heck, even Colt McCoy had a good day and Mangini let him throw the ball around.

Reerun_KC
10-20-2010, 07:27 AM
I'm still searching for these mythical Cassel defenders ROFL

I'd say everyone here would like a new QB next year. There isn't a better one on the roster (sorry Brodie disciples), so not much they can do now.

Same here... the dude played a good game last sunday... but he is still far from the long term answer at QB for the Chiefs...

but to say this is basically silly.. . What gives the haters more expertise in hating Cassel, then the few that support him? Its a message board and its nothing more than someone elses opinion, its not like anyone here is a expert.

philfree
10-20-2010, 07:54 AM
Same here... the dude played a good game last sunday... but he is still far from the long term answer at QB for the Chiefs...

but to say this is basically silly.. . What gives the haters more expertise in hating Cassel, then the few that support him? Its a message board and its nothing more than someone elses opinion, its not like anyone here is a expert.


They're not? You better ask them about that.



PhilFree:arrow:

Reerun_KC
10-20-2010, 08:00 AM
They're not? You better ask them about that.



PhilFree:arrow:


:D

crazycoffey
10-20-2010, 09:04 AM
I'm still searching for these mythical Cassel defenders ROFL

I'd say everyone here would like a new QB next year. There isn't a better one on the roster (sorry Brodie disciples), so not much they can do now.



Truthfully, I'm not sold on the idea that matt is better than brokie.

Reerun_KC
10-20-2010, 09:33 AM
Truthfully, I'm not sold on the idea that matt is better than brokie.

replacing suck with and equal or greater suck still equals suck in the end....

And basically we have nothing more than suck at the QB position throughout the depth chart.

FAX
10-20-2010, 12:08 PM
I didn't know where to post this ... so it's going right dang here.

There is a good interview on the Chiefs website (Chiefs Live W/ Looney) with Gus Johnson. Gus comes on at about the 17 minute mark. Interesting takes from Gus.

FAX

Warrior5
10-20-2010, 12:20 PM
I'll be willing to talk about Cassel's improvements after the Jags game.

If he's unable to put up at least Houston-esque numbers this Sunday, it'll be a real short talk.

Coogs
10-20-2010, 12:30 PM
I didn't know where to post this ... so it's going right dang here.

There is a good interview on the Chiefs website (Chiefs Live W/ Looney) with Gus Johnson. Gus comes on at about the 17 minute mark. Interesting takes from Gus.

FAX

Can you give us a Readers Digest version FAX? Thanks either way.

FAX
10-20-2010, 12:39 PM
Can you give us a Readers Digest version FAX? Thanks either way.

The most interesting he said (in my view) was that Schaub is an "elite" quarterback - or words to that effect - and that Andre Johnson is one of the best receivers in the league, if not the best. Said that the Houston offense is the best and most explosive we will face all year.

Said that he and Tasker were shaking their heads on the way to the airport trying to figure out how the Chiefs lost that game ... from his vantage point, we outplayed the Texans throughout ... said the Chiefs need some more talented players, but that the foundation is there and that it appears we are building the team to be successful for the long-haul ... likes Haley and what he's done.

Stuff like that.

FAX

Mr. Laz
10-20-2010, 12:41 PM
Cassel has improved .... alot.


sadly, it's still just not good enough

MadMax
10-20-2010, 02:48 PM
I was a Cassel supporter all of last year and even up to the start of this season when everybody else hated. That being said, after watching Cassel for over a year, he's showed nothing much better than mediocre play IMO. True, he did look a little better Sunday. And, I do not blame this loss on him. 31 points should be enough to win just about any game. But I've come to the conclusion that mediocre is all we're gonna get from this guy. And I, as a fan, want somebody who is good enough to elevate the play of those around him, not just good enough to get by. I'd still like to see him succeed here as he is a good guy off the field and a hard worker, but after watching over a year of the guy I'm just not sold. I hope I'm eating crow on this one but I'll need to see more than one decent game against a poor defense before I can honestly say I'm sold on this guy as our QB.




Sadly, the crows are safe..

teedubya
10-20-2010, 02:51 PM
Lets Talk About Cassels Improvements.

1. ...

uh,

Coogs
10-20-2010, 06:15 PM
The most interesting he said (in my view) was that Schaub is an "elite" quarterback - or words to that effect - and that Andre Johnson is one of the best receivers in the league, if not the best. Said that the Houston offense is the best and most explosive we will face all year.

Said that he and Tasker were shaking their heads on the way to the airport trying to figure out how the Chiefs lost that game ... from his vantage point, we outplayed the Texans throughout ... said the Chiefs need some more talented players, but that the foundation is there and that it appears we are building the team to be successful for the long-haul ... likes Haley and what he's done.

Stuff like that.

FAX

Thanks FAX! Just found time to read this!

BossChief
10-24-2010, 09:38 PM
I know it was against another bad defense, but the guy stepped up when he needed to today and showed some fire in defending his teammates.

Another step forward.

RedThat
10-24-2010, 09:43 PM
Im impressed that he is starting to develop some patience in the pocket.

Patience=poise

last year that was an issue w/ him. We all saw how he was antsy in the pocket.

Of course I accredit that success not only to him, but also to the OL giving him more time. Blocking has been superb this year and is light out better than it was last year.

I think he is getting more of a feel with the guys in front of him, and you can see it w. his pocket presence. He looks comfortable back there at times.

BossChief
12-15-2010, 07:57 PM
Many know that I have been a "hater" of the trade since way before day one. I hated everything the trade represented. I wanted OUR KID, not somebody elses backup and never saw Cassel as the type of guy worth taking a shot on as a veteran.

But, here we are. We have no choice and I know, like many of you, all I care about is this team winning games and having a shot at giving us a championship.When it all boils down, THAT'S IT. I still don't think that Cassel is the guy that can get us there, but I want to have a good conversation about what many of you think he is actually improving on.

Even the biggest haters have to admit the guy is improved his play from last year.

Here are a few things I think he is noticeably better at this year over last:

1) He is learning to avoid pressure and get rid of the ball instead of taking sacks.
2) He is developing the mental clock that quarterbacks have to possess. He still has work to do here, but he is improving.
3) Matt is throwing with a little better footwork and that is allowing him to be more accurate and throw with more zip.
4) He is trusting his blocking and looking for the open man more.
5) He is taking hits while releasing the ball. This is an area that seems completely new for the guy, it was one of the biggest knocks I had about him last year and is something that if he continues to do it and learns to be more accurate while doing so, he will start getting his teammates in his corner more and more.
6) He is doing a better job of holding the ball in the pocket to avoid getting stripped.
7) He is sliding in the pocket more and more and continuing to look at receivers instead of the rush...not all the time, but for the most part this is a true statement.

I know this will probably turn into a "Cassel hatred" thread, Lord knows I love a good one as much as the rest of you...but I will ask that even his staunchest "haters" try to add to this list of things that he is improving on and for the most part try to keep the hyperbole in one of the many other hate threads about the guy. Maybe even offer up a objective list of your own so that some here can know what to watch for so they don't stumble around here like drooling retards trying to defend the guy after he shits the bed (like when he overthrows my guy by 4 feet over his head and 4 yards behind the route and people try to blame the receiver, instead of the quarterback that cut off his throwing motion because of the pressure, instead of stepping into his throw while knowing he WILL take a shot to deliver an accurate ball)

I know its gonna be hard, but lets have a conversation about the good things the guy is doing so far in 2010, ok?

Lets hope he takes up where he left off before the surgery.

We need this guy back in action and leading this squad.

HotRoute
12-17-2010, 02:53 PM
Lets hope he takes up where he left off before the surgery.

We need this guy back in action and leading this squad.

Amen Brudda