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Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 04:09 PM
I can't believe Simms said some of the things he said.

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Dayze
11-04-2010, 04:13 PM
jesus Sims.

Der Flöprer
11-04-2010, 04:13 PM
I'd love to agree with Phil Simms, I'd really love too. But he lost me when he said Matt has a great arm. Anyone who has watched every snap of every Chiefs games knows damn well better than that.

Bane
11-04-2010, 04:14 PM
Yeah I LOL'd @ "he has a great arm" I mean JFC.:shake:

Rausch
11-04-2010, 04:14 PM
Can's see $#it...

Guru
11-04-2010, 04:14 PM
They can't protect him and he takes too many sacks? WTF?

Bane
11-04-2010, 04:15 PM
They can't protect him and he takes too many sacks? WTF?

Isn't he like the #2 least sacked QB right now?

Guru
11-04-2010, 04:15 PM
Isn't he like the #2 least sacked QB right now?

Collinsworth said about as many boneheaded things as Simms did. Personally, I thought Simms actually raised some good points other than the good arm remark

KCrockaholic
11-04-2010, 04:16 PM
They can't protect him and he takes too many sacks? WTF?

Both them were dead wrong on a couple points. But this one was just retarded.

Before this season I would agree with that, but this year Cassel has done a fantastic job on not holding onto the ball too long, and the line has been incredible protecting him.

Direckshun
11-04-2010, 04:17 PM
Is it just me or does nobody know football like Cris Collingsworth.

gblowfish
11-04-2010, 04:18 PM
I hate to say this, because I think Collinsworth is a douche, but in this case, his opinion is the closest to reality.

I don't know what Simms has been watching. But our passing offense is dink and dunk. We all know that, and we all know we need to run and run and run and run. And when we don't the drives sputter.

DMAC
11-04-2010, 04:18 PM
Sounds like this board

Chiefnj2
11-04-2010, 04:19 PM
I'd love to agree with Phil Simms, I'd really love too. But he lost me when he said Matt has a great arm. Anyone who has watched every snap of every Chiefs games knows damn well better than that.

I think he said "good" not "great".

Bane
11-04-2010, 04:19 PM
Is it just me or does nobody know football like Cris Collingsworth.
He's a rare gem.
Sounds like this board

ROFL

Chiefnj2
11-04-2010, 04:20 PM
They agree the receivers aren't very good.

Sweet Daddy Hate
11-04-2010, 04:20 PM
Collinsworth said about as many boneheaded things as Simms did. Personally, I thought Simms actually raised some good points other than the good arm remark

Collinsworth has ALWAYS made me want to vomit.

arrowheadnation
11-04-2010, 04:21 PM
I'd love to agree with Phil Simms, I'd really love too. But he lost me when he said Matt has a great arm. Anyone who has watched every snap of every Chiefs games knows damn well better than that.

Yeah, I liked Gus on our last play at the end of regulation the other day. He said something like "Cassel has a huge arm, this is where he's dangerous"

Der Flöprer
11-04-2010, 04:21 PM
I think he said "good" not "great".

Okay, I watched it again. You're right. Does that really invalidate my post?

Phobia
11-04-2010, 04:22 PM
I enjoy Collinsworth's color. He's pretty enlightening during a game when he's on his game. But I can't stand him otherwise.

-King-
11-04-2010, 04:23 PM
Okay, I watched it again. You're right. Does that really invalidate my post?

Cassel has a average to good arm so it's not like he's wrong. What Cassel struggles with is his accuracy.

Phobia
11-04-2010, 04:23 PM
Yeah, I liked Gus on our last play at the end of regulation the other day. He said something like "Cassel has a huge arm, this is where he's dangerous"

Gus said about midway through the second quarter - "This is right where the Chiefs wanted to be in this game".... uh - yeah, tied 0-0 with the worst team in the league.

Phobia
11-04-2010, 04:25 PM
Cassel has a average to good arm so it's not like he's wrong. What Cassel struggles with is his accuracy.

Of course he does. He plays QB in the NFL.

Have you ever heard a commentator say "oh that guy has a terrible arm" or "his arm is below average"?

Having a good arm somewhat implies accuracy for me. What good is a cannon if you can't put it where it needs to be?

Chiefs Rool
11-04-2010, 04:28 PM
Jesus, they don't know crap about the Chiefs except that we have a good running game.

yhf
11-04-2010, 04:29 PM
Of all fucking people, Warren Sapp seemed fairly evenhanded in his evaluation. Gotta give credit where it is due, Cassle is far from being a great QB at this time but at times he has been a large factor in the teams success. Yeah yeah I know he has failed at critical times as well but don't be blind to his contributions.

Guru
11-04-2010, 04:29 PM
Collinsworth has ALWAYS made me want to vomit.

Generally I like collinsworth but it is clear from this video that neither one of them have actually taken the time to watch any chiefs games and were just using talking points.

DMAC
11-04-2010, 04:31 PM
That was a debate based entirely off of stats and rankings.

gblowfish
11-04-2010, 04:32 PM
Collinsworth has never liked the Chiefs because Albert Lewis and Kevin Ross used to bitch slap him whenever we played Cincy. Simms will stand up for any NFL QB, because he used to BE an NFL QB. Sapp usually poo-poo's KC, but at least he got a taste of what KC-Oakland rivalry is all about, and I think for that reason he's backed off a bit this week. Also, beating them seven times in a row in Oakland is big. Nobody's ever beaten Oakland 8 times in a row in Oakland, so that'll be huge if we can pull it off.

evolve27
11-04-2010, 04:32 PM
Nice find on the video. Collinsworth and Sapp have it on the money with their beginning and closing statements. However, Sapp used to be a fucking Faider, so I take it for what it is.

Rausch
11-04-2010, 04:33 PM
Nice find on the video. Collinsworth and Sapp have it on the money.

Still see..........fucking...........hate Goatse........

crazycoffey
11-04-2010, 04:39 PM
I'd love to agree with Phil Simms, I'd really love too. But he lost me when he said Matt has a great arm. Anyone who has watched every snap of every Chiefs games knows damn well better than that.

Yeah, I thought the same thing, LOL

I hate to say this, because I think Collinsworth is a douche, but in this case, his opinion is the closest to reality.

I don't know what Simms has been watching. But our passing offense is dink and dunk. We all know that, and we all know we need to run and run and run and run. And when we don't the drives sputter.

closest to reality, yup - but still fucking off his rocker with a pessimistic outlook, Absolutely. I think Mecca is really Collinsworth sometimes.....

crazycoffey
11-04-2010, 04:41 PM
PS - I'm just soooooo happy that our beloved Chiefs are actually garnishing enough national media coverage to get a spot on inside the NFL.

KCrockaholic
11-04-2010, 04:41 PM
Nice find on the video. Collinsworth and Sapp have it on the money with their beginning and closing statements. However, Sapp used to be a ****ing Faider, so I take it for what it is.

He trashes the faiders all the time actually. It's easy to sense that he has a built up hate for Al Davis, and the faider organization as a whole.

RedThat
11-04-2010, 04:42 PM
I like what Sims had to say.

I agree with a lot of things he says. In particular about coverages. It is going to happen where NFL receivers get single coverage for a lot of snaps.

Are the Chiefs receivers the greatest? Absolutely not.

But I like how he got to the bottomline. When Cassel has to make the crucial plays to drive his team at important times in ball games he makes the throws. Statistically he converts a majority of the throws that count most. He did that last week. He setup his team in position to win the game. He flat out did his job.

And thats what matters. The most appropriate way to judge a quarterback is to see how that quarterback responds under pressure. I don't care what anyone says. So far, Cassel has proved he has the ability to perform well under difficult circumstances. Facts don't lie, like it or not, anyone who debates this is simply a Cassel hater imo.

*Don't know where the lack of protection came from though? That boggled my mind there.

Guru
11-04-2010, 04:43 PM
I like what Sims had to say.

I agree with a lot of things he says. In particular about coverages. It is going to happen where NFL receivers get single coverage for a lot of snaps.

Are the Chiefs receivers the greatest? Absolutely not.

But I like how he got to the bottomline. When Cassel has to make the crucial plays to drive his team at important times in ball games he makes the throws. Statistically he converts a majority of the throws that count most. He did that last week. He setup his team in position to win the game. He flat out did his job.

And thats what matters. The most appropriate way to judge a quarterback is to see how that quarterback responds under pressure. I don't care what anyone says. So far, Cassel has proved he has the ability to perform well under difficult circumstances. Facts don't lie, like it or not, anyone who debates this is simply a Cassel hater imo.

*Don't know where the lack of protection came from though? That boggled my mind there.
You did watch the game against the Bills this week right?

evolve27
11-04-2010, 04:44 PM
He trashes the faiders all the time actually. It's easy to sense that he has a built up hate for Al Davis, and the faider organization as a whole.

The "QBKilla"!

RedThat
11-04-2010, 04:44 PM
You did watch the game against the Bills this week right?

Of course. He came through in the clutch didn't he?

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 04:47 PM
Of course. He came through in the clutch didn't he?

Cassel played like dogshit for four and 4/5 quarters.

He created the need for his own "clutch" play, which consisted of dumping the ball to a running back and hitting a wide open Moeaki on two 10-yard throws.

If Cassel had turned in one decent half of football the Chiefs win in a blowout.

Guru
11-04-2010, 04:48 PM
Of course. He came through in the clutch didn't he? Ok, so you want to base an entire game on one series. I see.

Cassel played like dogshit for four and 4/5 quarters.

He created the need for his own "clutch" play, which consisted of dumping the ball to a running back and hitting a wide open Moeaki on two 10-yard throws.

If Cassel had turned in one decent half of football the Chiefs win in a blowout.

THIS

Rausch
11-04-2010, 04:51 PM
So Pioli and Haley have managed to reach 10 years of Marty/Carl results in only 2?

Fucking masterful!

That's a fucking learning curve I can live with!1!

RedThat
11-04-2010, 04:58 PM
Cassel played like dogshit for four and 4/5 quarters.

He created the need for his own "clutch" play, which consisted of dumping the ball to a running back and hitting a wide open Moeaki on two 10-yard throws.

If Cassel had turned in one decent half of football the Chiefs win in a blowout.

I understand he played like dogshit a majority of the game. but if you ask me, that is not a fair way to evaluate him at this point.

The Chiefs are what they are, a running team. And I suspect they will depend on the running game for a majority of the season. Cassel is who he is, an average to solid quarterback who doesn't turn the ball over and makes the simple and clutch plays when he has to.

A lot of times we get caught up looking at the sh*tty part of his play and neglect our focus on his entire play or focusing on the bottomline. Like it or not, he does convert the throws when needed most. Quarterback play should be judged on a broader scale as opposed to a narrow scale. He has contributed in helping this team win in needed times.

*so if you're referring to him creating his own clutch plays then he deserves some credit. I also give credit to Moeaki and Charles who have been stellar in the clutch so far this year.

*shouldn't be looking at this thing as a blowout. Im sure you know the Chiefs by now, they ain't gonna blow people out. It just comes down to accepting them for who they are. But hey, they got the win. thats all that counts.

RedThat
11-04-2010, 04:59 PM
Ok, so you want to base an entire game on one series. I see.



THIS

Nope just saying quarterback play should be judged from a broader scale and not a narrow scale. He came through when it mattered most.

FAX
11-04-2010, 05:01 PM
Cassel has a average to good arm so it's not like he's wrong. What Cassel struggles with is his accuracy.

Cassel is a funny quarterback. He's a lot like story of the elephant and the blind dudes ... the one where one blind dude touches the elephant's leg and says the elephant is like unto a pillar, another one touches his tail and says the elephant is like unto a rope, and still another touches his testicles and says the elephant is like unto his Uncle Morris ...

It all depends on your perspective. Are the Chiefs winning games? Yes. Is Cassel the quarterback? Yes. Can he dance like a little girl? Absolutely.

I wish we had a stud QB, but we don't. They can argue all they want, but we're stuck with this guy for now and sometimes he looks like a journeyman and sometimes he looks like a mud hole.

FAX

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 05:03 PM
I understand he played like dogshit a majority of the game. but if you ask me, that is not a fair way to evaluate him at this point.

OK, so it's not fair to judge a quarterback based on the majority of the game, just one possession.

Like it or not, he does convert the throws when needed most.

So when we needed him to make a throw in the first four quarters, where was he?


Quarterback play should be judged on a broader scale as opposed to a narrow scale.

Wait, didn't you just say we should judge quarterback play based on a narrow scale, i.e. one possession? Make up your fucking mind.


*so if you're referring to him creating his own clutch plays then he deserves some credit.

He deserves as much credit as shitbag Jake Plummer, who did the same thing in Arizona for years. Play like shit, then miracle comeback out the ass to cover yours.


Im sure you know the Chiefs by now, they ain't gonna blow people out.

Chiefs 42, Jaguars 20
Chiefs 31, 49ers 10

Would you like to know more?

crazycoffey
11-04-2010, 05:03 PM
Cassel is a funny quarterback. He's a lot like story of the elephant and the blind dudes ... the one where one blind dude touches the elephant's leg and says the elephant is like unto a pillar, another one touches his tail and says the elephant is like unto a rope, and still another touches his testicles and says the elephant is like unto his Uncle Morris ...

It all depends on your perspective. Are the Chiefs winning games? Yes. Is Cassel the quarterback? Yes. Can he dance like a little girl? Absolutely.

I wish we had a stud QB, but we don't. They can argue all they want, but we're stuck with this guy for now and sometimes he looks like a journeyman and sometimes he looks like a mud hole.

FAX

ROFL

Cassel post of the year...

Brock
11-04-2010, 05:04 PM
Nope just saying quarterback play should be judged from a broader scale and not a narrow scale. He came through when it mattered most.

You have pretty low expectations.

MahiMike
11-04-2010, 05:04 PM
Collinsworth said about as many boneheaded things as Simms did. Personally, I thought Simms actually raised some good points other than the good arm remark

This. And how can Collinsworth even bring up sacks? 8 total all year? Favre gets sacked that much each game. Neither brought up the fact how well he protects the ball. This is a running/ball control offense. Matt only has to throw about 20 yds each drive. Been a pretty good formula so far and he's doing exactly what his coaches are telling him to do.

Rausch
11-04-2010, 05:05 PM
You have pretty low expectations.

That's the main problem here...

gblowfish
11-04-2010, 05:08 PM
Cassel is a funny quarterback. He's a lot like story of the elephant and the blind dudes ... the one where one blind dude touches the elephant's leg and says the elephant is like unto a pillar, another one touches his tail and says the elephant is like unto a rope, and still another touches his testicles and says the elephant is like unto his Uncle Morris ...

It all depends on your perspective. Are the Chiefs winning games? Yes. Is Cassel the quarterback? Yes. Can he dance like a little girl? Absolutely.

I wish we had a stud QB, but we don't. They can argue all they want, but we're stuck with this guy for now and sometimes he looks like a journeyman and sometimes he looks like a mud hole.

FAX

Um, I really didn't need the "Uncle Morris" visual, but OK...

RedThat
11-04-2010, 05:09 PM
Cassel is a funny quarterback. He's a lot like story of the elephant and the blind dudes ... the one where one blind dude touches the elephant's leg and says the elephant is like unto a pillar, another one touches his tail and says the elephant is like unto a rope, and still another touches his testicles and says the elephant is like unto his Uncle Morris ...

It all depends on your perspective. Are the Chiefs winning games? Yes. Is Cassel the quarterback? Yes. Can he dance like a little girl? Absolutely.

I wish we had a stud QB, but we don't. They can argue all they want, but we're stuck with this guy for now and sometimes he looks like a journeyman and sometimes he looks like a mud hole.

FAX

It really comes down to the fact that we have to accept the Chiefs for who they are.

The quarterback is not going to win them ball games. This is a running team who will beat you by running the ball, controlling the TOP, and dictating the tempo of the game, and also playing good defense and special teams. Not turning the ball over, and playing disciplined, and fundamentally sound.

Add all that up, and realistically this team is not going to blow people out. We just don't have the potent passing attack to do that. Plus, it has to do with who they are. I see this team as a methodical team. That is part of their philosophy to methodical beat teams.

What pleases me as a fan, unlike the past, this team has established an identity for themselves. They're gonna play 60 minutes all the way, and physical beat you, and try to outsmarten you. And they play with great tenacity and will. Not once have I seen this season where they've absolutely dogged it.

FAX
11-04-2010, 05:10 PM
Nope just saying quarterback play should be judged from a broader scale and not a narrow scale. He came through when it mattered most.

It matters all the time, Mr. RedThat. That, I believe, is what people are upset about. It didn't have to come down to the last drive in that game. Not at all.

Collinsworth is right when he says that, with a run game like ours, we ought to be able to devastate enemy defenses with the play action. When you come in averaging 200 rushing yards a game, you should be able to destroy secondaries ... even with the intermediate passing game.

In my opinion, Cassel's worst attributes are his apparent indecisiveness and lack of pocket presence. If he weren't such a question mark in the pocket, his mechanics would improve and, as a result, so would his accuracy. Sadly, too often he takes the snap and turns into, what appears to be, a big giant-chinned doofus with a red shirt and a football.

But, he's not throwing interceptions. Although there have been a couple of lucky breaks in that department as well.

FAX

Rausch
11-04-2010, 05:10 PM
Um, I really didn't need the "Uncle Morris" visual, but OK...

Today is all win...

Blick
11-04-2010, 05:10 PM
Cassel doesn't have many opportunities to be clutch considering how often the Chiefs run the ball.

And for as much shit as Cassel gets for sputtering drives, it was actually the running game that failed to convert 1st downs on several 3rd down opportunities.

Cassel played to the game plan. When they finally had to have him lead his own drive at the end of overtime, he made plays.

CrazyPhuD
11-04-2010, 05:11 PM
Heh the only bus that cassel is driving is a pretty damn short one.

Guru
11-04-2010, 05:11 PM
What would be nice is to see this team actually run the ball on 3rd and short instead of constantly putting the ball in Cassels hands so he can blow it the majority of the time.

FAX
11-04-2010, 05:11 PM
... What pleases me as a fan, unlike the past, this team has established an identity for themselves. They're gonna play 60 minutes all the way, and physical beat you, and try to outsmarten you. And they play with great tenacity and will. Not once have I seen this season where they've absolutely dogged it.

We are simpatico in this regard, Mr. RedThat.

FAX

RedThat
11-04-2010, 05:12 PM
What would be nice is to see this team actually run the ball on 3rd and short instead of constantly putting the ball in Cassels hands so he can blow it the majority of the time.

This I agree. Id like to see them run the ball more. And also not go for it on 4th down all the time, and piss away easy points. Thats frustrating to see.

Brock
11-04-2010, 05:13 PM
I'd like Cassel to stop overthrowing wide open receivers by 10 yards.

FAX
11-04-2010, 05:15 PM
I'd like Cassel to stop overthrowing wide open receivers by 10 yards.

My favorites from the last game are the bounce passes.

FAX

Guru
11-04-2010, 05:15 PM
This I agree. Id like to see them run the ball more. And also not go for it on 4th down all the time, and piss away easy points. Thats frustrating to see.

I've been OK with all but two of the fourth down decisions this year. What I hate is the play call on those downs. When they have 4th and one and then try to pass when our running game is gouging the other team for 6 yards per carry, why call an obvious passing play. At least go play action if you want to pass.

Guru
11-04-2010, 05:16 PM
I'd like Cassel to stop overthrowing wide open receivers by 10 yards.

no shit!!!! Post of the year.

FAX
11-04-2010, 05:16 PM
I've been OK with all but two of the fourth down decisions this year. What I hate is the play call on those downs. When they have 4th and one and then try to pass when our running game is gouging the other team for 6 yards per carry, why call an obvious passing play. At least go play action if you want to pass.

Trickism. Who would believe for a second that we would throw the football in those situations? Nobody. That's who. It would be crazy.

FAX

Der Flöprer
11-04-2010, 05:16 PM
For the record, my name is not Morris.

Guru
11-04-2010, 05:17 PM
Trickism. Who would believe for a second that we would throw the football in those situations? Nobody. That's who. It would be crazy.

FAX

LMAO and it works like a charm too. Drive killer.

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 05:18 PM
Cassel doesn't have many opportunities to be clutch considering how often the Chiefs run the ball.


He has an opportunity on every third down to be clutch.

okiedokieokoye
11-04-2010, 05:19 PM
Of all ****ing people, Warren Sapp seemed fairly evenhanded in his evaluation. Gotta give credit where it is due, Cassle is far from being a great QB at this time but at times he has been a large factor in the teams success. Yeah yeah I know he has failed at critical times as well but don't be blind to his contributions.

At least they know how to spell his name correctly.

Blick
11-04-2010, 05:20 PM
He has an opportunity on every third down to be clutch.

We ran the ball on 3rd and 6 or longer at least 3 times against Buffalo.

Rausch
11-04-2010, 05:21 PM
He has an opportunity on every third down to be clutch.

THIS.














Quit making sense GoShagCarpetBasementStalker...

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 05:21 PM
We ran the ball on 3rd and 6 or longer at least 3 times against Buffalo.

Because they don't trust Cassel to make a play.

Because he shows, over and over again, that he can't do it.

FAX
11-04-2010, 05:22 PM
LMAO and it works like a charm too. Drive killer.

The astounding thing is the empty backfield formations when we're 4th and whatever. Honestly, Weis is killing me with that stuff.

There has to be some logic to that idea ... I guess ... doesn't there?

FAX

-King-
11-04-2010, 05:22 PM
Weis needs to stop being a pussy and just stop keeping Cassel on a leash. If Cassel is going to fuck up...then let him fuck up. I'd rather they take chances and go for big pass plays instead of the retarded shit they do now. Weis is doing Cassel NO favors. Cassel sucks, but he doesn't suck to the point he averages only 200 ypg.

And then Weis chooses the dumbest times to throw risky passes. Why have most of the risky passes been on 3rd and short?

Blick
11-04-2010, 05:22 PM
Because they don't trust Cassel to make a play.

Because he shows, over and over again, that he can't do it.

No shit. That wasn't my argument. I said he was playing to the game plan...

Der Flöprer
11-04-2010, 05:24 PM
Morris Flopnuts. I know the guy.

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 05:24 PM
No shit. That wasn't my argument. I said he was playing to the game plan...

The gameplan calls for him to blow every third down pass play?

RedThat
11-04-2010, 05:24 PM
It matters all the time, Mr. RedThat. That, I believe, is what people are upset about. It didn't have to come down to the last drive in that game. Not at all.

Collinsworth is right when he says that, with a run game like ours, we ought to be able to devastate enemy defenses with the play action. When you come in averaging 200 rushing yards a game, you should be able to destroy secondaries ... even with the intermediate passing game.

In my opinion, Cassel's worst attributes are his apparent indecisiveness and lack of pocket presence. If he weren't such a question mark in the pocket, his mechanics would improve and, as a result, so would his accuracy. Sadly, too often he takes the snap and turns into, what appears to be, a big giant-chinned doofus with a red shirt and a football.

But, he's not throwing interceptions. Although there have been a couple of lucky breaks in that department as well.

FAX

True. And I can see where he and other fans are coming from. We should be destroying teams in the passing game w/ our powerful running attack. Our running game should make things easier for Cassel I totally understand. And if you ask me, I am not pleased at all with his entire play. I do think he needs to get better.

Cassel's indecisiveness, imo, is due to the fact he has bad tunnel vision. His problem is, he stares down receivers a lot. That needs to change. His peripheral vision needs to get better. But, Im not sure if that is something that could be taught. You either have that or you don't. On other hand, when he is confident to make throws, he makes some pretty decent throws. I think his pocket presence is inconsistent. Last year it was terrible, but it has gotten better in comparison to last year. He has developed some patience back there, the protection is better to give him more time to throw the ball, but it goes back to again, his peripheral vision is not that good. I think that plays a role in him having bad pocket presence, and making bad throws.

He definately has been lucky. Luck has certainly been on his side so far.

*My point was, overall he has been average. He is who he is. Has he been garbage at times? you sure bet. But at times he's been really good, and made some key throws to setup his team to win games. He has done a good job protecting the ball as well. Add all that up, and yeah you pretty much get an average quarterback imo. That is what Im getting at in looking at him from a broader scale as opposed to a narrow scale. We have to look at a lot of factors in order to judge who he really is.

Guru
11-04-2010, 05:26 PM
The astounding thing is the empty backfield formations when we're 4th and whatever. Honestly, Weis is killing me with that stuff.

There has to be some logic to that idea ... I guess ... doesn't there?

FAX

Yep, the blame falls mostly with Weis. Cassel blows it but Weis set him up to fail too. For a guy that was supposedly a genius in NE he sure doesn't show it here.

Of course, he had Brady in NE too. But that couldn't possibly make him a better playcaller could it?

Brock
11-04-2010, 05:26 PM
No shit. That wasn't my argument. I said he was playing to the game plan...

Being a 50 percent passer on 3rd down isn't in the gameplan.

-King-
11-04-2010, 05:26 PM
Cassel has 10 attempts this year on 3rd and short.




....why?

Rausch
11-04-2010, 05:27 PM
Being a 50 percent passer on 3rd down isn't in the gameplan.

This...

Reerun_KC
11-04-2010, 05:27 PM
Ok, so you want to base an entire game on one series. I see.



THIS

But its alright to base a game on a single play when it benefits the arguement regardless of player?

Okay, just wanted to know where the goalposts were moved too...

Blick
11-04-2010, 05:29 PM
Weis needs to stop being a pussy and just stop keeping Cassel on a leash. If Cassel is going to fuck up...then let him fuck up. I'd rather they take chances and go for big pass plays instead of the retarded shit they do now. Weis is doing Cassel NO favors. Cassel sucks, but he doesn't suck to the point he averages only 200 ypg.

And then Weis chooses the dumbest times to throw risky passes. Why have most of the risky passes been on 3rd and short?

This. Cassel is only doing what Weis wants him to do.

Also, our offensive line doesn't pass protect very well in certain situations...like play action passes. We don't run very many PA passes for as good as our running game is.

Rausch
11-04-2010, 05:29 PM
Okay, just wanted to know where the goalposts were moved too...

How about average for your position?...

Tuckdaddy
11-04-2010, 05:30 PM
Our bad passing attack is collection of things. One is Matt. He's not one you can have just wing the ball all around. His release is too slow and his arm is not exactly a hum dinger cannon. Two is our WR's are not even what anybody would call good. Bowe is ok but is he really good? Does he get open consistantly? No and No. Three we throw the ball very little and practice makes perfect. The passing is dink and dunk and who the hell do we have that gets down the field with any speed that isn't easy to cover? We have no speed at Wr to do anything but dink and dunk. Four, we can run the ball for 200 a game. Why the hell not run the ball down other teams throats? Truth is, we don't have an offense right now nor the players to run a higher powered offense that needs Matt to do anything but what he's doing.

Reerun_KC
11-04-2010, 05:31 PM
How about average for your position?...

How about add something of substance for a change...

FAX
11-04-2010, 05:31 PM
True. And I can see where he and other fans are coming from. We should be destroying teams in the passing game w/ our powerful running attack. Our running game should make things easier for Cassel I totally understand. And if you ask me, I am not pleased at all with his entire play. I do think he needs to get better.

Cassel's indecisiveness, imo, is due to the fact he has bad tunnel vision. His problem is, he stares down receivers a lot. That needs to change. His peripheral vision needs to get better. But, Im not sure if that is something that could be taught. You either have that or you don't. On other hand, when he is confident to make throws, he makes some pretty decent throws. I think his pocket presence is inconsistent. Last year it was terrible, but it has gotten better in comparison to last year. He has developed some patience back there, the protection is better to give him more time to throw the ball, but it goes back to again, his peripheral vision is not that good. I think that plays a role in him having bad pocket presence, and making bad throws.

He definately has been lucky. Luck has certainly been on his side so far.

*My point was, overall he has been average. He is who he is. Has he been garbage at times? you sure bet. But at times he's been really good, and made some key throws to setup his team to win games. He has done a good job protecting the ball as well. Add all that up, and yeah you pretty much get an average quarterback imo. That is what Im getting at in looking at him from a broader scale as opposed to a narrow scale. We have to look at a lot of factors in order to judge who he really is.

Well ... hmmm.

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but my guess is that, when a pass play is called, Cassel is instructed to do several things ...

A) Don't throw the INT.
B) Don't take the sack.
C) Take the first read.

Maybe I'm using homer-vision, but I think/hope that's what's going on. Things make a lot more sense when you assume those are facts. Otherwise, Cassel is little more than a dumbass, extremely myopic, Howdy-Doody look-alike in a Chiefs suit.

FAX

RedThat
11-04-2010, 05:31 PM
Yep, the blame falls mostly with Weis. Cassel blows it but Weis set him up to fail too. For a guy that was supposedly a genius in NE he sure doesn't show it here.

Of course, he had Brady in NE too. But that couldn't possibly make him a better playcaller could it?

He has made some bogus play calls at times. He sure gambled in that Houston game.

That game slipped out of our hands. when it was 3rd and short late in the 4th and he decided to pass, instead of running, I just dropped and rolled on the floor in disgust.

In that situation, you run the damn ball. Play according to your teams strengths. WTF was he thinking in that situation?

*I always think that when you have the players, as a coach or co-ordinator it makes your life that much better or easier. If your players are excellent at executing and making plays for a majority of the time, which is what star players do, then the coach automatically looks good.

Brock
11-04-2010, 05:32 PM
How about add something of substance for a change...

How about taking your own advice...

-King-
11-04-2010, 05:33 PM
I'd rather see the playbook opened up and Cassel try and fail, than see this retarded shit we're doing with him. At least give him a chance to make a play.

Reerun_KC
11-04-2010, 05:35 PM
How about taking your own advice...

Need a mirror? How about post something other than bitching constantly about what I post...

I swear you have to be a women...

Brock
11-04-2010, 05:37 PM
Need a mirror? How about post something other than bitching constantly about what I post...

I swear you have to be a women...

Wow, that's some amazing hypocrisy on display. Weren't you just bitching about somebody else's post? Dumb cunt.

-King-
11-04-2010, 05:37 PM
Need a mirror? How about post something other than bitching constantly about what I post...

I swear you have to be a women...

ROFLROFLROFL

FAX
11-04-2010, 05:38 PM
I'd rather see the playbook opened up and Cassel try and fail, than see this retarded shit we're doing with him. At least give him a chance to make a play.

That would only work if Cassel does not, in fact, suffer from target fixation, Mr. KcChiefsKing.

His tendency to stare down receivers would not only result in more turnovers, it would mean the likely premature death of our receivers ... especially the midget ones. The fact is that, if they did feature Cassel, we'd get routinely slaughtered trying to win games on his arm and decision-making ability. The coaches have to, not only maximize our strengths, but minimize the number of plays at which we suck.

We're stuck with having to run the football for a mazillion yards or more every game. If, that is, we want to actually win.

FAX

FAX
11-04-2010, 05:38 PM
And a hairy women at that.

FAX

Fish
11-04-2010, 05:39 PM
Weis needs to stop being a pussy and just stop keeping Cassel on a leash. If Cassel is going to fuck up...then let him fuck up. I'd rather they take chances and go for big pass plays instead of the retarded shit they do now. Weis is doing Cassel NO favors. Cassel sucks, but he doesn't suck to the point he averages only 200 ypg.

And then Weis chooses the dumbest times to throw risky passes. Why have most of the risky passes been on 3rd and short?

Weis isn't going to just let Cassel impersonate Peyton Manning. It's not going to happen. Because Weis knows that unleashing Cassel would do nothing but implode the offense and cause our turnovers to skyrocket. It's no coincidence that Cassel averaged 40+ sacks a season before this year, and has reduced it to nearly nothing this year. They've got Cassel on a very short leash for good reason.

If we could throw down the field all game, we'd be doing it. The coaches aren't holding Cassel back because they want to take that dimension out of the offense. They're holding him back because they have to to play the type of game we're playing. Weis is getting the best out of Cassel that he can get.

Reerun_KC
11-04-2010, 05:40 PM
Wow, that's some amazing hypocrisy on display. Weren't you just bitching about somebody else's post? Dumb ****.

Your preception is so full of shit its not even funny Brock... Maybe read the post.... If you followed along... You would of noticed that they were talking about, how one drive doesnt define a person or a game... I asked back, how come that one play can define a person during a game, regardless of the person..

Would you like to discuss that or continue to be a ass for no reason?

Actually, I think you should put me on ignore... Every time I post, you throw a fit and whine about what I post....

Der Flöprer
11-04-2010, 05:41 PM
A hairy women named Uncle Morris.

RedThat
11-04-2010, 05:42 PM
We are simpatico in this regard, Mr. RedThat.

FAX

Dude, I love this team.

This is the best Chiefs team I've seen since '93. I don't think they're as good as the '93 team, but Im just happy right now that they've come a long way. I love their tenacity and will in how they fight in ball games. They show a true display of heart and character and do a lot of the little things right. They are well coached and a fundamentally sound team. And also, I think they somewhat have a balance which as a Chiefs fan, were not used to seeing that.

do they have the stars? Nope. But they have have a solid nucleus of players. Good young players, with solid defense and special teams, great running game, and good coaching is a team on the rise imo.

Now if they had a damn good quarterback I think they would be competing right up there w/ Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and the other top teams in the league. Possibly superbowl too?

keg in kc
11-04-2010, 05:42 PM
I've revised my opinion on Cassel's arm strength as the season's gone on. He's not a noodle-arm. The issue is accuracy, I think he has enough raw oomph to make the throws.

He's actually doing several things better than he did last year. Minus a couple head-scratching plays last week, he's getting the ball out faster, which is I think helping the line not look so woeful in pass protection. He's generally making better decisions, as outlined by the TD/int ratio, and does appear to be progressing through reads on slower developing plays.

But the issue is that we're talking about the development of a 28-year old player in terms you'd normally apply to a 22-year old just getting his feet wet in the league. If it does somehow, sometime *click*, I wonder just how much time he'll play at his 'peak', whatever that ends up being.

I suppose the upside would be Trent Green, Steve Beurlein, Mark Brunell, Rich Gannon style post-30th birthday performance. But even that level of play seems very far away at times. He's a bit better than 2009, but it would be difficult not to be...

And, unfortunately, he has yet to show any of the "it" that allows certain quarterbacks to elevate the team around them at moments where it's needed. He's showing this year that (so far) he's capable of not losing games. But he has yet to show that he can win one.

Fish
11-04-2010, 05:43 PM
I'd rather see the playbook opened up and Cassel try and fail, than see this retarded shit we're doing with him. At least give him a chance to make a play.

A coach is never going to set his player up for failure. Never. They're going to do everything they can to put him in a position to succeed. Even if that means lowering the expectations.

They know exactly what Cassel is capable of. There is no "finding out" if he can do it. If he could, they'd be doing it. It's really that simple.

Reerun_KC
11-04-2010, 05:43 PM
Weis isn't going to just let Cassel impersonate Peyton Manning. It's not going to happen. Because Weis knows that unleashing Cassel would do nothing but implode the offense and cause our turnovers to skyrocket. It's no coincidence that Cassel averaged 40+ sacks a season before this year, and has reduced it to nearly nothing this year. They've got Cassel on a very short leash for good reason.

If we could throw down the field all game, we'd be doing it. The coaches aren't holding Cassel back because they want to take that dimension out of the offense. They're holding him back because they have to to play the type of game we're playing. Weis is getting the best out of Cassel that he can get.

I can agree with this 100%, and this is why I think they will draft or aquire another QB at the end of this year.... They cant continue to build a team around Cassel and be limited to zero down field passess...

But also, I dont ever recall Weis's offense being a air it out Al Davis type of offense wanna be either....

It is by design, Cassel or could it just be both?

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 05:44 PM
I've revised my opinion on Cassel's arm strength as the season's gone on. He's not a noodle-arm. The issue is accuracy, I think he has enough raw oomph to make the throws.


His arm is still pretty average.

Maybe if he actually had a good arm that pass to Bowe on the first drive gets there faster and instead of the DB making a play Bowe hauls it in for a TD.

It's just another thing to add to the list of issues.

Reerun_KC
11-04-2010, 05:45 PM
A coach is never going to set his player up for failure. Never. They're going to do everything they can to put him in a position to succeed. Even if that means lowering the expectations.

They know exactly what Cassel is capable of. There is no "finding out" if he can do it. If he could, they'd be doing it. It's really that simple.

You're off the charts tonight...... Very good posts!

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 05:45 PM
This is the best Chiefs team I've seen since '93.

The 1997 Chiefs would rape every Chiefs team since.

Brock
11-04-2010, 05:47 PM
Your preception is so full of shit its not even funny Brock... Maybe read the post.... If you followed along... You would of noticed that they were talking about, how one drive doesnt define a person or a game... I asked back, how come that one play can define a person during a game, regardless of the person..

Would you like to discuss that or continue to be a ass for no reason?

Actually, I think you should put me on ignore... Every time I post, you throw a fit and whine about what I post....

And miss out on your passive-aggressive say-nothing posts? No way.

Reerun_KC
11-04-2010, 05:48 PM
And miss out on your passive-aggressive say-nothing posts? No way.

Great, now I have to listen to you bitch relentless everytime I post... Why are you obsessed with me? Its kind of creepy if you really want to know...

FAX
11-04-2010, 05:48 PM
... And, unfortunately, he has yet to show any of the "it" that allows certain quarterbacks to elevate the team around them at moments where it's needed. He's showing this year that (so far) he's capable of not losing games. But he has yet to show that he can win one.

Yep.

He can, however, shake his tushie in front of the bench in a valiant effort to instill a sense of urgency in his fellow teammates.

FAX

-King-
11-04-2010, 05:49 PM
A coach is never going to set his player up for failure. Never. They're going to do everything they can to put him in a position to succeed. Even if that means lowering the expectations.

They know exactly what Cassel is capable of. There is no "finding out" if he can do it. If he could, they'd be doing it. It's really that simple.

Cassel can make more throws that the ones they're asking of him. If this is the most he can do...then why start him? I'm sure Croyle can do more then. And if Croyle can't do more, then we have the worst QB situation in history.

Der Flöprer
11-04-2010, 05:50 PM
Well that wasn't very passive.

teedubya
11-04-2010, 05:50 PM
Yeah I LOL'd @ "he has a great arm" I mean JFC.:shake:

He said "GOOD" arm. Not great.

Brock
11-04-2010, 05:51 PM
Great, now I have to listen to you bitch relentless everytime I post... Why are you obsessed with me? Its kind of creepy if you really want to know...

I call out hypocrisy when I see it. If you're a victim of it more than other people are, well....

-King-
11-04-2010, 05:52 PM
If Cassel's biggest problem is his confidence like some here like Milkman say, then the throws he's asked to do aren't going to do anything to raise his confidence.

FAX
11-04-2010, 05:52 PM
Cassel can make more throws that the ones they're asking of him. If this is the most he can do...then why start him? I'm sure Croyle can do more then. And if Croyle can't do more, then we have the worst QB situation in history.

I don't think it's the "throws", Mr. KcChiefsKing. I think it's the decision-making and pocket awareness that's the problem. They have to get the ball out of his hands pronto in order to simplify the game for him ... that's my take, anyhow.

He doesn't seem to possess the ability to stand in the pocket, go through progressions, find the open man, and throw the ball ... in that order. Now that I think on it, it's basically backwards, actually.

FAX

keg in kc
11-04-2010, 05:52 PM
His arm is still pretty average.I didn't believe his arm strength was average heading into this year. That was my point...

And I think maybe there's too much attention given to that. You can do well with an average arm, if you possess certain other intangibles. That's where the questions arise for me. He's shown a few of them - he'll take hits, he'll play hurt, his teammates appear to be behind him (that was a big question for me heading into the season), but at the end of the day can he make that key play?

I just don't know. He hasn't so far.

Reerun_KC
11-04-2010, 05:54 PM
I call out hypocrisy when I see it. If you're a victim of it more than other people are, well....


Well then you have a full time job ahead of you here... You should be good for at least 100 posts from random Cp'ers full of hypocrisy....

Maybe you need to get you a little sheriffs badge to show people you really mean business...

Fish
11-04-2010, 05:54 PM
Cassel can make more throws that the ones they're asking of him. If this is the most he can do...then why start him? I'm sure Croyle can do more then. And if Croyle can't do more, then we have the worst QB situation in history.

Yes he can. We've seen it. But he can't do it consistently. His accuracy issues make it an exponentially bigger gamble the longer the distance.

And I imagine in the coach's eyes, it's not just as easy as pulling him and plugging in Croyle. There's a thousand other factors that would come into play. And why push it at this point? Why rock the boat when we're winning and leading the division? They're making what they've got work, and Cassel isn't slowing the boat down. He sure as shit isn't paddling very hard, but he's not at anchor at the moment.

Reerun_KC
11-04-2010, 05:56 PM
I didn't believe his arm strength was average heading into this year. That was my point...

And I think maybe there's too much attention given to that. You can do well with an average arm, if you possess certain other intangibles. That's where the questions arise for me. He's shown a few of them - he'll take hits, he'll play hurt, his teammates appear to be behind him (that was a big question for me heading into the season), but at the end of the day can he make that key play?

I just don't know. He hasn't so far.

Learned alot about him on the final two FG drives in OT of the Buffalo game...

Probably the best two drives out of him this year.... Considering the pressure...

keg in kc
11-04-2010, 05:59 PM
They have to get the ball out of his hands pronto in order to simplify the game for him ... that's my take, anyhow.That's not necessarily a safe assumption to make. That seems to be a league-wide trend now, the short passing game. Elements of the college spread have definitely been seeded into the pro game. Everybody's doing it.

Take last week, for instance. When Buffalo went to quick passing in the second half, was it because Fitzgerald doesn't have the ability to make his reads, or was it because Tamba Hali was bowling over the right tackle like he wasn't even there? Or was it because they saw something in the defense they could exploit?

Maybe they are trying to simplify the game for him (talking about the Chiefs now). Maybe they're trying to help the offensive line. Maybe they're just using the short passing game as an extension of the team's strength, the run game. Maybe it's a combination of all that.

Hell, maybe they're not passing because they believe they can win without it.

It's really hard to tell...

FAX
11-04-2010, 05:59 PM
Learned alot about him on the final two FG drives in OT of the Buffalo game...

Probably the best two drives out of him this year.... Considering the pressure...

Or ... maybe ... just maybe ... they started calling Moeaki's number. And he responded. Got open. Held onto the ball. Cassel seems to feel reasonably comfortable throwing to him.

FAX

keg in kc
11-04-2010, 06:01 PM
Learned alot about him on the final two FG drives in OT of the Buffalo game...

Probably the best two drives out of him this year.... Considering the pressure...I don't look at last week's game as a positive for Cassel.

FAX
11-04-2010, 06:02 PM
That's not necessarily a safe assumption to make. That seems to be a league-wide trend now, the short passing game. Elements of the college spread have definitely been seeded into the pro game. Everybody's doing it.

Take last week, for instance. When Buffalo went to short passing in the second half, was it because Fitzgerald doesn't have the ability to make his reads, or was it because Tamba Hali was bowling over the right tackle like he wasn't even there?

Maybe they are trying to simplify the game for him. Maybe they're trying to help the offensive line. Maybe they're just using the short passing game as an extension of the team's strength, the run game. Maybe it's a combination of all that.

Hell, maybe they're not passing because they believe they can win without it.

It's not been just the Bills game, though. I don't know the numbers, but the lion's share of his passes seem to be "first reads".

I think it's safe to assume that, if they thought Cassel could "safely" (not throw interceptions or take the sack) go through progressions, they would allow it. That only makes sense.

FAX

Reerun_KC
11-04-2010, 06:04 PM
I don't look at last week's game as a positive for Cassel.

I agree to a point, It was frustrating as hell most of the game... but in the end they got it done...

I know alot of people said the same thing about Cassel after the Houston debacle...

BigRedChief
11-04-2010, 06:07 PM
WTF is up with all the national analyst saying good things about Cassel?

keg in kc
11-04-2010, 06:08 PM
It's not been just the Bills game, though. I don't know the numbers, but the lion's share of his passes seem to be "first reads"When you're calling short routes and screens to backs and receivers, that's generally the way it's going to average out. They aren't calling a lot of slow-developing pass plays, neither straight drops nor play action. I do think he's reading through his progressions when a slower play is called; I don't think he's coming out of the huddle with his target already in mind the way it seemed last year.

I'm not saying you're wrong, by the way. All I'm saying is that I have no way of knowing why they're calling the plays they're calling. You're assuming it's Cassel, and it may well be, but there are a number of other reasons why they could be calling those plays. It's just impossible for me to sit here watching the games at home and say definitively "they're doing this because..."

Guru
11-04-2010, 06:10 PM
But its alright to base a game on a single play when it benefits the arguement regardless of player?

Okay, just wanted to know where the goalposts were moved too...
What? I'm basing my observations on the entire season. Even in our wins he has looked like crap.

Blick
11-04-2010, 06:11 PM
I think they are coaching Cassel to get rid of the ball quickly to help the offensive line. They've been great in the run game, but still a little questionable in pass protection at times.

Also, quick throws allow playmakers like Bowe and Charles to run after the catch. We would rather throw 5 yard routes on 3rd and 10 and rely on guys running than rely on our line to block for Cassel to scan the field and find a guy past the sticks.

Detoxing
11-04-2010, 06:14 PM
WTF is up with all the national analyst saying good things about Cassel?

pioli's pockets run deep

Chiefnj2
11-04-2010, 06:16 PM
The poor passing attack is a result of several factors:
1. It seems to take Cassel a while to warm up.
2. Cassel seems to play better in games where he is given a little more freedom to make things happen.
3. The passing gameplan has been - no turnovers, no negative plays, take the first read.
4. The WRs are generally poor. They have no legitimate #2 or #3 receiver.
5. The passing gameplan is designed in part to protect the OL. They aren't being asked to block for a long time. That's because they can't.

I know it's chic to blame everything on Cassel. That's okay, he makes the big $. I still don't understand the infatuation with repeating every single day all of the guys shortcomings.

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 06:19 PM
Learned alot about him on the final two FG drives in OT of the Buffalo game...

Probably the best two drives out of him this year.... Considering the pressure...

Cassel made all of one throw on the first drive.

Overall, we're talking about four completions on two drives to receivers that were wide the fuck open.

These were not difficult throws, Cassel was not being rushed.

Let's take a look at Cassel's other two overtime drives.




1-10-KC 20 (13:24) 25-J.Charles up the middle to KC 30 for 10 yards (99-M.Stroud).
1-10-KC 30 (12:47) 25-J.Charles right end to KC 43 for 13 yards (98-D.Edwards, 20-D.Whitner).
1-10-KC 43 (12:12) 20-T.Jones up the middle to KC 46 for 3 yards (98-D.Edwards).
2-7-KC 46 (11:41) 7-M.Cassel pass incomplete deep left to 82-D.Bowe (29-D.Florence).
3-7-KC 46 (11:33) 7-M.Cassel scrambles right guard to BUF 49 for 5 yards (28-L.McKelvin).
4-2-BUF 49 (10:58) 2-D.Colquitt punts 39 yards to BUF 10, Center-43-T.Gafford, out of bounds.

Cassel KILLED this drive after Charles and Jones got it going and moved the ball to the 46. If Cassel does his job on this drive the game is OVER and the drive at the end of the game is not needed.

Second drive:




1-10-KC 43 (7:14) 7-M.Cassel pass deep right to 81-T.Moeaki to BUF 41 for 16 yards (28-L.McKelvin).
1-10-BUF 41 (6:50) 25-J.Charles up the middle to BUF 32 for 9 yards (31-J.Byrd).
2-1-BUF 32 (6:19) 25-J.Charles left tackle to BUF 26 for 6 yards (51-P.Posluszny).
1-10-BUF 26 (5:39) 25-J.Charles right tackle to BUF 24 for 2 yards (98-D.Edwards; 51-P.Posluszny).
2-8-BUF 24 (5:01) 20-T.Jones left tackle to BUF 22 for 2 yards (91-Sp.Johnson).
3-6-BUF 22 (4:21) (Shotgun) 25-J.Charles up the middle to BUF 21 for 1 yard (51-P.Posluszny).

Wow, Cassel sure can lean on a running game. Weis learned something from the first overtime drive - STOP PUTTING THE GAME IN CASSEL'S HANDS!!! As soon as Cassel made his one contribution they handed the ball off to the running backs again.

tk13
11-04-2010, 06:25 PM
I think the arm strength thing is probably the single biggest misconception about anyone on the team. He can put plenty of juice on the ball, he just can't do it accurately. People talk like he's Damon Huard.

FAX
11-04-2010, 06:26 PM
When you're calling short routes and screens to backs and receivers, that's generally the way it's going to average out. They aren't calling a lot of slow-developing pass plays, neither straight drops nor play action. I do think he's reading through his progressions when a slower play is called; I don't think he's coming out of the huddle with his target already in mind the way it seemed last year.

I'm not saying you're wrong, by the way. All I'm saying is that I have no way of knowing why they're calling the plays they're calling. You're assuming it's Cassel, and it may well be, but there are a number of other reasons why they could be calling those plays. It's just impossible for me to sit here watching the games at home and say definitively "they're doing this because..."

Well, unlike myself, you have standards about making accurate and well-though-out statements, Mr. keg in kc. Some of us are unburdened by such concerns.

You're right, of course. I'm assuming that they're taking the first read on account of Cassel. It could be that they're doing it for other reasons.

However, think about this ... there are some game excerpts on the "gif'd up" thread, for example, that clearly show an open receiver as Cassel is throwing to a well-covered man. In at least two of those cases, the open guy was in the same line of sight as the covered player. To me, that has to be a "first read" type of deal and has little to do with the line (since the pass protection had already occurred), or the defense, or any other reason I can think of ... other than the fact that Cassel took his first option.

Personally, I think he has target fixation. Plus, he's probably being coached to either take the first option or get rid of the ball - to avoid sacks, I mean (a real problem he's had in the past). Just a guess, though.

FAX

wazu
11-04-2010, 06:27 PM
Cassel is 24th in the league in passing yards. And a lot of the guys ahead of him have only started a handful of games. He's on pace to barely crack 2700 yards. That's not even a game manager.

stevieray
11-04-2010, 06:29 PM
I know it's chic to blame everything on Cassel. That's okay, he makes the big $. I still don't understand the infatuation with repeating every single day all of the guys shortcomings.

yup, this thread is just another rinse and repeat...all it took was Simms being positive about Cassel...are people really going to do this every day for ten more games, even if we're winning?

...one of two things will happen, a lot will eat crow, or eventually turn on Haley for sticking with Matt as QB..

Blick
11-04-2010, 06:29 PM
What about the drive at the end of regulation?

Cassel does his job on first down and hits Bowe for 7 yards. Our awesome running game fails hard on 2nd down and gets stuffed for 2 yards. Then, for some reason, we put Cassel in shotgun on 3rd and 1. Incomplete. But, Cassel calls his OWN number and sneaks for the first down on 4th down. Haley nullifies it with the timeout and then decides to punt. That could have been the game winning drive.

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 06:33 PM
What about the drive at the end of regulation?

Cassel does his job on first down and hits Bowe for 7 yards. Our awesome running game fails hard on 2nd down and gets stuffed for 2 yards. Then, for some reason, we put Cassel in shotgun on 3rd and 1. Incomplete. But, Cassel calls his OWN number and sneaks for the first down on 4th down. Haley nullifies it with the timeout and then decides to punt. That could have been the game winning drive.

ROFL

Give me a break.

First off, that wasn't a "drive". It was four fucking plays.

Second, the entire need for a fourth down gamble shows how awful Cassel is. He freakin' threw the ball at Tucker's feet on third and 1. Why? Because he sucks.

Third, the entire idea that they would run the ball on 2nd down shows how much the coaches don't trust Cassel. There's less than 2 minutes left in the game, why are you running the ball? Because you know your quarterback sucks ass and you're desperately hoping your running back can break a long run.

KChiefs1
11-04-2010, 06:35 PM
It just tells me enough about Cassel when I watch Sam Bradford & you can tell he is already twice the QB that Cassel is after one has started 30+ games & the other 8.

Guru
11-04-2010, 06:38 PM
yup, this thread is just another rinse and repeat...all it took was Simms being positive about Cassel...are people really going to do this every day for ten more games, even if we're winning?

...one of two things will happen, a lot will eat crow, or eventually turn on Haley for sticking with Matt as QB..

Hell, I support this team 100% but that doesn't mean I have 100% confidence in Cassel. If people like him and think he is the man, I certainly hope they are right. I just happen to disagree with the assessment and hope I am wrong.

stevieray
11-04-2010, 06:40 PM
Hell, I support this team 100% but that doesn't mean I have 100% confidence in Cassel. If people like him and think he is the man, I certainly hope they are right. I just happen to disagree with the assessment and hope I am wrong.

:spock:


ok.

Blick
11-04-2010, 06:42 PM
ROFL

Give me a break.

First off, that wasn't a "drive". It was four fucking plays.

Second, the entire need for a fourth down gamble shows how awful Cassel is. He freakin' threw the ball at Tucker's feet on third and 1. Why? Because he sucks.

Third, the entire idea that they would run the ball on 2nd down shows how much the coaches don't trust Cassel. There's less than 2 minutes left in the game, why are you running the ball? Because you know your quarterback sucks ass and you're desperately hoping your running back can break a long run.

You keep wanting to play this "he could've won it earlier" game, so I was just pointing out a drive where it could have happened. He made a play to get a first down and Haley fucked it up by calling a timeout.

He got hit as he threw that ball to Tucker. He had to change the angle of his arm to avoid having the ball get hit. If he has protection, he makes that throw.

Give me a fucking break about running the ball with 2 minutes left. We were gashing them all game long.

Sweet Daddy Hate
11-04-2010, 06:43 PM
yup, this thread is just another rinse and repeat...all it took was Simms being positive about Cassel...are people really going to do this every day for ten more games, even if we're winning?

...one of two things will happen, a lot will eat crow, or eventually turn on Haley for sticking with Matt as QB..

Nah, I think we all know who's backing "his" boy, and it ain't Todd Haley. But at this point, you have to show solidarity unless Matt really, REALLY bombs-out. I have no problem with that, and the off season will be the final verdict on the matter.
Cool FrankenElvis BTW.

It just tells me enough about Cassel when I watch Sam Bradford & you can tell he is already twice the QB that Cassel is after one has started 30+ games & the other 8.

Man, that one really grinds my goat. I was so wrong about that little Llama.

Guru
11-04-2010, 06:44 PM
:spock:


ok.

I thought I was pretty clear. I would rather be wrong than right on this.

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 06:47 PM
He got hit as he threw that ball to Tucker.

OH NO!!!! :eek:

Poor Matty got hit!!!

He couldn't POSSIBLY be expected to complete a pass under those circumstances.

That "drive" Cassel "orchestrated" at the end of regulation was a complete abortion. He couldn't even get a first down in three plays, forcing Haley to do something incredibly stupid.

Cassel is lucky Berry bailed his ass out on the next possession.

We almost lost this fucking game because of Matt Cassel, against a fucking winless team. Stop defending him.

Blick
11-04-2010, 06:57 PM
OH NO!!!! :eek:

Poor Matty got hit!!!

He couldn't POSSIBLY be expected to complete a pass under those circumstances.

That "drive" Cassel "orchestrated" at the end of regulation was a complete abortion. He couldn't even get a first down in three plays, forcing Haley to do something incredibly stupid.

Cassel is lucky Berry bailed his ass out on the next possession.

We almost lost this fucking game because of Matt Cassel, against a fucking winless team. Stop defending him.

It obviously affected the throw.

Cassel did his part at the end of regulation. He threw for 7 on first down. The running game ran for 2 fucking yards. Who couldn't get a first down?

The drive would have been a real drive if Haley didn't call timeout. Cassel gets the first down. Haley calls timeout. Cassel get blamed for not getting the first down. Got it. GTFO with that bullshit.

Oh, and now Cassel is lucky he got his ass bailed out by Berry's INT. It wouldn't be the shitty fucking special teams coverage that allowed Parrish to return a punt 33 yards to midfield that got bailed out. It's Cassel. JFC.

Stop over-analyzing the shit out of everything Cassel does. It's fucking annoying. We all know he sucks, but he's not the villain you keep trying make him.

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 07:02 PM
Cassel did his part at the end of regulation.

No he fucking didn't.

He threw the ball INTO THE GROUND at the most pivotal moment in the game.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Cassel's shitty play SET UP the opportunity for the Bills to go win the game.

Just like his shitty play THE REST OF THE GAME set up his chance to FAIL at the end of regulation.

He sucked at the beginning of the game, he sucked at the end of the game, and it took him 74 minutes to finally unfuck himself and make a real contribution.

If you support Matt Cassel, you're letting the terrorists win.

boogblaster
11-04-2010, 07:05 PM
All in all Collinsworth is a smart ass ... that said no Cassel isn't in the top 20 .. but like Sapp said all he really has to do is hand the ball off and make a few passes per game .......

Blick
11-04-2010, 07:15 PM
No he fucking didn't.

He threw the ball INTO THE GROUND at the most pivotal moment in the game.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Cassel's shitty play SET UP the opportunity for the Bills to go win the game.

Just like his shitty play THE REST OF THE GAME set up his chance to FAIL at the end of regulation.

He sucked at the beginning of the game, he sucked at the end of the game, and it took him 74 minutes to finally unfuck himself and make a real contribution.

If you support Matt Cassel, you're letting the terrorists win.

He got hit. When you get hit, the ball doesn't come out clean. It comes out short. Why is that so hard to understand?

And why is it so hard to understand everything else I posted?

The special teams coverage set the Bills up to win the game. Cassel got a first down that would have kept the drive going.

I don't support Cassel, I'm just not on your "I hate everything he does" bandwagon to the point of breaking down his fucking eye contact in the locker room and his body language when receivers are lining up.

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 07:17 PM
I don't support Cassel

Good, then all this other bullshit is irrelevant.

He sucks, we agree he sucks, hopefully he's gone sooner rather than later.

BigMeatballDave
11-04-2010, 07:22 PM
Matt Cassel is what he is. I'm just gonna go with it. Besides, I've run out of euphemisms for 'suck'.

Pawnmower
11-04-2010, 07:24 PM
He sucks, we agree he sucks, hopefully he's gone sooner rather than later.

I am going to get to laugh at you for busting your vagina over this for at least 24+ more games?

Awesome.

Brock
11-04-2010, 07:26 PM
Matt Cassel is what he is. I'm just gonna go with it. Besides, I've run out of euphemisms for 'suck'.

Yep. And besides that, reerun gets offended when we talk about Cassel.

DeezNutz
11-04-2010, 07:29 PM
And besides that, reerun gets offended when we talk about Cassel.

Oh, then I'm out.

chiefzilla1501
11-04-2010, 07:31 PM
All in all Collinsworth is a smart ass ... that said no Cassel isn't in the top 20 .. but like Sapp said all he really has to do is hand the ball off and make a few passes per game .......

Which is what makes it so scary to think how good this offense could be if we had a QB that could actually complete the passes that were given to them on a silver platter.

Reerun_KC
11-04-2010, 08:02 PM
Yep. And besides that, reerun gets offended when we talk about Cassel.

Your hypocrisy noes no bounds. How ironic that you post bullshit you no nothing about. Then act like you know everything about a poster. Your about as funny and annoying as Dane.

By all means keep it up. Your obsession with me is scary yet comical.

southbeachtraitor
11-04-2010, 08:03 PM
I'd love to agree with Phil Simms, I'd really love too. But he lost me when he said Matt has a great arm. Anyone who has watched every snap of every Chiefs games knows damn well better than that.

"lost me when he said Matt has a great arm"..LMAOROFL

dirk digler
11-04-2010, 08:12 PM
Well ... hmmm.

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but my guess is that, when a pass play is called, Cassel is instructed to do several things ...

A) Don't throw the INT.
B) Don't take the sack.
C) Take the first read.

FAX

I think that is EXACTLY what is happening and that makes it a little bit harder to be QB not like it isn't a tough enough job anyway.

Guru
11-04-2010, 08:14 PM
I am sick of the lack of progressing through all reads.

Sweet Daddy Hate
11-04-2010, 08:18 PM
I am sick of the lack of progressing through all reads.

"It a process"!

stevieray
11-04-2010, 08:20 PM
I am sick of the lack of progressing through all reads.

there's that hope again.

:D

RINGLEADER
11-04-2010, 08:23 PM
They can't protect him and he takes too many sacks? WTF?

That's Cris looking at the stat line last week --

You can get over an average arm or an average ability to read a defense. Cassel's problem is that he's inconsistent in throwing the ball. Every game he leaves 1-2 TDs out there because he can't hit receivers in stride, can't hit wide open receivers, or tries to throw to covered receivers when others are wide open. Some drives he looks adequate, and others simply atrocious. If he could just look adequate he'd be more than enough for this team but it is not going to be pretty the first game we get down 2 TDs...

Guru
11-04-2010, 08:24 PM
there's that hope again.

:D

Hope and change. :D

Mr. Laz
11-04-2010, 08:30 PM
tbh i think it's more than Cassel that has the chiefs coaches avoiding the passing game.


1. our tackles struggle holding the edge which is magnified when the other team knows we are passing.

2. Wide receivers are meh and there isn't any speed at the position to scare the defense. The defenses just go man-to-man with no worries

3. Cassel - he's slow with the reads and not very accurate. He also reacts even worse to pressure than most QB's.

Big priority this coming offseason is upgrading the passing game on all points imo

Brock
11-04-2010, 08:32 PM
Your hypocrisy noes no bounds. How ironic that you post bullshit you no nothing about. Then act like you know everything about a poster. Your about as funny and annoying as Dane.

By all means keep it up. Your obsession with me is scary yet comical.

You spell like a dipshit.

Guru
11-04-2010, 08:35 PM
U spill lik a dpsht.

FYP

stevieray
11-04-2010, 08:39 PM
Nah, I think we all know who's backing "his" boy, and it ain't Todd Haley. But at this point, you have to show solidarity unless Matt really, REALLY bombs-out. I have no problem with that, and the off season will be the final verdict on the matter.
Cool FrankenElvis BTW.



Man, that one really grinds my goat. I was so wrong about that little Llama.

that would imply that Haley is a foot shuffling porter when it comes to the most important position on the team. You really get that from Haley? dude does not BS around. GC claimed we were a damn good football team. Think Haley believes that ? Not from what I've heard.

I'm sticking to my original story..they knew that had to gut his team and FO, and knew it would take time, and Cassel is a part of the that process. They obviously think he has the makeup for what kind of team they are trying to build. I think it's foolish for us to thnk that Haley doesn't have a good grasp of where they are in year two in the rebuild. I think they expect greater things next season.

Sweet Daddy Hate
11-04-2010, 08:42 PM
FYP

LMAO

So THIS is what it's like when Beaks COLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLIIIIIIIIDE!!!!!
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lsV500W4BHU/0.jpg

Sweet Daddy Hate
11-04-2010, 08:44 PM
that would imply that Haley is a foot shuffling porter when it comes to the most important position on the team. You really get that from Haley? dude does not BS around. GC claimed we were a damn good football team. Think Haley believes that ? Not from what I've heard.

I'm sticking to my original story..they knew that had to gut his team and FO, and knew it would take time, and Cassel is a part of the that process. They obviously think he has the makeup for what kind of team they are trying to build. I think it's foolish for us to thnk that Haley doesn't have a good grasp of where they are in year two in the rebuild. I think they expect greater things next season.

Good points, but I'm just not sold on Haley and Weis being 100% behind the guy when the doors are closed during meetings.

DBOSHO
11-04-2010, 08:50 PM
I want a real quarterback.

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 08:58 PM
Inside the NFL aired a clip of Haley bitching about Cassel throwing that bomb to Bowe late.

I would guess he has less than 100 percent support on that team.

stevieray
11-04-2010, 09:02 PM
Good points, but I'm just not sold on Haley and Weis being 100% behind the guy when the doors are closed during meetings.

I thought the mic'd up vid, including getting on his ass segments, show otherwise. Haley is a great motivator. I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt, till I see otherwise...remember, he re/evaluates every four games...if he feels the team isn't moving forward as a whole, he'll make the necessary adjustments.

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 09:02 PM
Inside the NFL aired a clip of Haley bitching about Cassel throwing that bomb to Bowe late.

I would guess he has less than 100 percent support on that team.

thebrad84
11-04-2010, 09:17 PM
Any one who has watched all 7 games this year and still thinks Cassel is any where close to being a good quarterback is completely ignorant of what a good quarterback is. He is not smart, he is not quick, he is not accurate, he is not elusive, he does not have good pocket presence, and he is not someone who knows how to audible to a play when the team shows their setup. He is, in fact, NOT GOOD AT ANYTHING that a GOOD quarterback should be. Thank you.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-04-2010, 09:18 PM
Inside the NFL aired a clip of Haley bitching about Cassel throwing that bomb to Bowe late.

I would guess he has less than 100 percent support on that team.

That's a stupid point, but typical of a fan.

On every missed play, Haley would gripe about anyone who made a mistake in execution. Doesn't mean that they don't have his support.

Marcellus
11-04-2010, 09:20 PM
That's a stupid point, but typical of a fan.

On every missed play, Haley would gripe about anyone who made a mistake in execution. Doesn't mean that they don't have his support.

Haley was really hating on Cassel when after that last drive he made sure, went out of his way in fact, to get Cassel's attention to come back over to him so he could give Cassel some props.

Marcellus
11-04-2010, 09:22 PM
Any one who has watched all 7 games this year and still thinks Cassel is any where close to being a good quarterback is completely ignorant of what a good quarterback is. He is not smart, he is not quick, he is not accurate, he is not elusive, he does not have good pocket presence, and he is not someone who knows how to audible to a play when the team shows their setup. He is, in fact, NOT GOOD AT ANYTHING that a GOOD quarterback should be. Thank you.

He is a game manager right now for sure.

What he isn't doing is taking sacks and turning the ball over.

Last year he was as prone to taking a sack and fumbling as he was throwing an INT.

He has made huge strides in that area.

thebrad84
11-04-2010, 09:28 PM
He is a game manager right now for sure.

What he isn't doing is taking sacks and turning the ball over.

Last year he was as prone to taking a sack and fumbling as he was throwing an INT.

He has made huge strides in that area.

Very much agree, however that doesn't make him a good quarterback or any where near good. All that says is Weis really studied the offense during the off season and has done a great job of game planning around Cassel holding on to the ball and throwing inaccurate on most past attempts. Your attributing his "better play" to the wrong person, IMO.

Marcellus
11-04-2010, 09:34 PM
Very much agree, however that doesn't make him a good quarterback or any where near good. All that says is Weis really studied the offense during the off season and has done a great job of game planning around Cassel holding on to the ball and throwing inaccurate on most past attempts. Your attributing his "better play" to the wrong person, IMO.

Better coaching, better play, whatever. Last year he was killing us, this year he is holding us back.

Hopefully, pray to sweet baby Jesus, he can step it up a couple notches down the stretch because, well, he is what we got.

I won't argue he isn't very good, I do think he WANTS to be good.

I wanted to be an astronaut when I was a kid.

I do believe the coaches know the limitations and are trying to get the most out of the hand they have right now and how far that gets us, I don't know.

Der Flöprer
11-04-2010, 09:36 PM
Anyone have any of the clips where Haley was talking about negative plays, and talking shit on the quarterback?

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 09:43 PM
Anyone have any of the clips where Haley was talking about negative plays, and talking shit on the quarterback?

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Der Flöprer
11-04-2010, 09:49 PM
Perfect. Thanks brother.

-King-
11-04-2010, 09:56 PM
Wow, at no point did he "talk shit" on Cassel.

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2010, 09:57 PM
Wow, at no point did he "talk shit" on Cassel.

He pretty much called him out for blowing a chance at a TD.

And he was yelling it.

Marcellus
11-04-2010, 10:01 PM
He pretty much called him out for blowing a chance at a TD.

And he was yelling it.

Come on man, there is plenty of unshown video of Haley getting pissed about every big play that wasn't made by either side of the ball.

He bitches about any play that isn't made offense or defense, running or passing and you know it.

stevieray
11-04-2010, 10:24 PM
And he was yelling it.

this made me chuckle.

Guru
11-04-2010, 11:21 PM
He pretty much called him out for blowing a chance at a TD.

And he was yelling it.Meh. He was just emphatically stating facts. Bet he does that a lot.

Baby Lee
11-05-2010, 06:19 AM
OK, so it's not fair to judge a quarterback based on the majority of the game, just one possession.

In brutally painful [in more ways than one] fairness, that was often how Elway was judged. So many of his legendary comebacks were a function of him playing like dogshit for 3 1/2 quarters, then pulling a brilliant drive out of his ass at the last second.

But I think it's pretty clear that 'clutch' Cassel is no 'clutch' Elway, if for nothing else than the fact that Elway's comebacks resulted in amazing touchdown passes, not just getting just enough yards for an iffy FG [that'd be the Brady way, albeit he did so in the playoffs and SB, not against 0-7 cellar dwellers].

milkman
11-05-2010, 06:27 AM
Of course. He came through in the clutch didn't he?

Did he, really?
At the end of regulation when he needed to make plays not simply to win, but to ensure that the game isn't lost, he didn't make plays.

At the end of OT, with a minute and 23 seconds left, if he fails to make plays, the Chiefs would have to punt the ball away to the Bills with little to no time left on the clock, and the game almost assuredly ends in a tie.

It's a no lose situation.

He didn't make plays when he had to make plays to when there was still an chance to lose.

Nope just saying quarterback play should be judged from a broader scale and not a narrow scale. He came through when it mattered most.

No.

No he didn't.

It mattered most at the end of regulation.


Great, now I have to listen to you bitch relentless everytime I post... Why are you obsessed with me? Its kind of creepy if you really want to know...

I haven't seen an obsession, but if he were obsessed, I imagine it wuold be the result of your moronic hypocrisy.

Norman Einstein
11-05-2010, 06:54 AM
For those fans in KC that can't stand Cassel. I invite you to find another team to be a fan of.

1. We are currently leading the West.
2. We hung in the games we lost, they were not blowouts. The Houston game only got away late and it only got away due to some egregious calls by the "officials".
3. In the last game the breaks were with us instead of against us, would you rather have it the other way?
4. Cassel is currently rated as the #10 QB in the NFL.
5. Cassel only has 3 interceptions on the season so far.

Granted he isn't a Joe Montana or Roger Staubach, but he is a decent QB.

Quarterback Rating Leaders - Qualified
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
1 Vince Young, QB TEN 122 72 59.0 998 8.18 71 9 2 10 103.1 143
2 Peyton Manning, QB IND 299 197 65.9 2184 7.30 73 15 2 7 101.4 312
3 Philip Rivers, QB SD 306 198 64.7 2649 8.66 59 15 7 21 98.9 331
4 David Garrard, QB JAC 149 101 67.8 1098 7.37 42 13 7 15 98.8 157
5 Tom Brady, QB NE 225 147 65.3 1602 7.12 65 12 4 12 96.6 229
6 Tony Romo, QB DAL 213 148 69.5 1605 7.54 69 11 7 7 94.9 268
7 Kyle Orton, QB DEN 316 195 61.7 2509 7.94 71 12 5 21 92.7 314
8 Drew Brees, QB NO 331 234 70.7 2334 7.05 80 16 11 13 92.6 292
9 Ryan Fitzpatrick, QB BUF 176 105 59.7 1200 6.82 45 12 5 11 91.1 240
10 Matt Cassel, QB KC 179 105 58.7 1196 6.68 53 10 3 8 90.4 171
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
11 Matt Ryan, QB ATL 252 156 61.9 1714 6.80 46 12 5 13 89.6 245
12 Matt Schaub, QB HOU 235 149 63.4 1739 7.40 50 10 6 19 89.3 248
13 Seneca Wallace, QB CLE 100 63 63.0 693 6.93 65 4 2 6 88.5 139
14 Eli Manning, QB NYG 239 157 65.7 1785 7.47 54 14 11 12 88.3 255
15 Josh Freeman, QB TB 224 135 60.3 1533 6.84 53 8 3 14 87.1 219
16 Kevin Kolb, QB PHI 153 97 63.4 1035 6.77 83 6 4 10 85.3 207
17 Aaron Rodgers, QB GB 269 165 61.3 2011 7.48 86 12 9 16 85.3 251
18 Joe Flacco, QB BAL 236 140 59.3 1651 7.00 58 10 6 10 84.2 236
19 Jay Cutler, QB CHI 181 111 61.3 1483 8.19 89 7 7 27 84.1 247
20 Carson Palmer, QB CIN 282 168 59.6 1855 6.58 78 12 7 10 83.0 265
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
21 Jason Campbell, QB OAK 138 78 56.5 1023 7.41 69 6 4 15 82.5 171
22 Chad Henne, QB MIA 243 154 63.4 1669 6.87 46 8 7 10 82.5 238
23 Shaun Hill, QB DET 208 127 61.1 1309 6.29 75 9 7 8 79.6 218
24 Mark Sanchez, QB NYJ 215 114 53.0 1356 6.31 67 9 4 11 78.8 194
25 Donovan McNabb, QB WSH 277 159 57.4 1971 7.12 62 7 8 22 76.0 246
26 Sam Bradford, QB STL 292 171 58.6 1674 5.73 49 11 8 17 75.9 209
27 Alex Smith, QB SF 242 143 59.1 1554 6.42 53 9 9 13 75.0 222
28 Matt Hasselbeck, QB SEA 236 135 57.2 1411 5.98 52 6 7 22 70.8 202
29 Brett Favre, QB MIN 211 126 59.7 1450 6.87 37 7 11 14 69.8 207
30 Derek Anderson, QB ARI 155 83 53.5 980 6.32 37 4 7 10 62.8 140
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
31 Matt Moore, QB CAR 137 76 55.5 844 6.16 39 5 10 12 55.7 169

milkman
11-05-2010, 06:59 AM
In brutally painful [in more ways than one] fairness, that was often how Elway was judged. So many of his legendary comebacks were a function of him playing like dogshit for 3 1/2 quarters, then pulling a brilliant drive out of his ass at the last second.

But I think it's pretty clear that 'clutch' Cassel is no 'clutch' Elway, if for nothing else than the fact that Elway's comebacks resulted in amazing touchdown passes, not just getting just enough yards for an iffy FG [that'd be the Brady way, albeit he did so in the playoffs and SB, not against 0-7 cellar dwellers].

I never really understood Dan Reeves game managment.

He had crap at RB through the years, and yet, he tried to play the game like he had crap at QB and a good running game.

Dan Reeves had more to do with Elway playing like dogshit for 3 1/2 qtrs than Elway, and when cruch time came. Elway bailed Reeves' ass out.

milkman
11-05-2010, 07:01 AM
For those fans in KC that can't stand Cassel. I invite you to find another team to be a fan of.

1. We are currently leading the West.
2. We hung in the games we lost, they were not blowouts. The Houston game only got away late and it only got away due to some egregious calls by the "officials".
3. In the last game the breaks were with us instead of against us, would you rather have it the other way?
4. Cassel is currently rated as the #10 QB in the NFL.
5. Cassel only has 3 interceptions on the season so far.

Granted he isn't a Joe Montana or Roger Staubach, but he is a decent QB.

Quarterback Rating Leaders - Qualified
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
1 Vince Young, QB TEN 122 72 59.0 998 8.18 71 9 2 10 103.1 143
2 Peyton Manning, QB IND 299 197 65.9 2184 7.30 73 15 2 7 101.4 312
3 Philip Rivers, QB SD 306 198 64.7 2649 8.66 59 15 7 21 98.9 331
4 David Garrard, QB JAC 149 101 67.8 1098 7.37 42 13 7 15 98.8 157
5 Tom Brady, QB NE 225 147 65.3 1602 7.12 65 12 4 12 96.6 229
6 Tony Romo, QB DAL 213 148 69.5 1605 7.54 69 11 7 7 94.9 268
7 Kyle Orton, QB DEN 316 195 61.7 2509 7.94 71 12 5 21 92.7 314
8 Drew Brees, QB NO 331 234 70.7 2334 7.05 80 16 11 13 92.6 292
9 Ryan Fitzpatrick, QB BUF 176 105 59.7 1200 6.82 45 12 5 11 91.1 240
10 Matt Cassel, QB KC 179 105 58.7 1196 6.68 53 10 3 8 90.4 171
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
11 Matt Ryan, QB ATL 252 156 61.9 1714 6.80 46 12 5 13 89.6 245
12 Matt Schaub, QB HOU 235 149 63.4 1739 7.40 50 10 6 19 89.3 248
13 Seneca Wallace, QB CLE 100 63 63.0 693 6.93 65 4 2 6 88.5 139
14 Eli Manning, QB NYG 239 157 65.7 1785 7.47 54 14 11 12 88.3 255
15 Josh Freeman, QB TB 224 135 60.3 1533 6.84 53 8 3 14 87.1 219
16 Kevin Kolb, QB PHI 153 97 63.4 1035 6.77 83 6 4 10 85.3 207
17 Aaron Rodgers, QB GB 269 165 61.3 2011 7.48 86 12 9 16 85.3 251
18 Joe Flacco, QB BAL 236 140 59.3 1651 7.00 58 10 6 10 84.2 236
19 Jay Cutler, QB CHI 181 111 61.3 1483 8.19 89 7 7 27 84.1 247
20 Carson Palmer, QB CIN 282 168 59.6 1855 6.58 78 12 7 10 83.0 265
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
21 Jason Campbell, QB OAK 138 78 56.5 1023 7.41 69 6 4 15 82.5 171
22 Chad Henne, QB MIA 243 154 63.4 1669 6.87 46 8 7 10 82.5 238
23 Shaun Hill, QB DET 208 127 61.1 1309 6.29 75 9 7 8 79.6 218
24 Mark Sanchez, QB NYJ 215 114 53.0 1356 6.31 67 9 4 11 78.8 194
25 Donovan McNabb, QB WSH 277 159 57.4 1971 7.12 62 7 8 22 76.0 246
26 Sam Bradford, QB STL 292 171 58.6 1674 5.73 49 11 8 17 75.9 209
27 Alex Smith, QB SF 242 143 59.1 1554 6.42 53 9 9 13 75.0 222
28 Matt Hasselbeck, QB SEA 236 135 57.2 1411 5.98 52 6 7 22 70.8 202
29 Brett Favre, QB MIN 211 126 59.7 1450 6.87 37 7 11 14 69.8 207
30 Derek Anderson, QB ARI 155 83 53.5 980 6.32 37 4 7 10 62.8 140
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
31 Matt Moore, QB CAR 137 76 55.5 844 6.16 39 5 10 12 55.7 169

I invite you to go fuck yourself with a rusty chain saw.

Count Alex's Losses
11-05-2010, 07:02 AM
4. Cassel is currently rated as the #10 QB in the NFL.


:rolleyes:

So tired of this.

At the end of the first half against Buffalo - a pathetic first half - his QB rating was 95.3.

QB rating is a bunch of shit.

The only reason his QB rating looks good is his TD/INT ratio.

That's a product of Moeaki and Bowe making 4 highlight reel plays for TDs and Weis putting Cassel on a leash to limit his picks.

ChiefsNow
11-05-2010, 08:09 AM
I hate Collinsworthless I can't remember a time that he has ever said a good thing about the chiefs or any player on the chiefs team unless it is totally obvious. He obviously hates the chiefs and I obviously hate him.

TEX
11-05-2010, 08:55 AM
For those fans in KC that can't stand Cassel. I invite you to find another team to be a fan of.

1. We are currently leading the West.
2. We hung in the games we lost, they were not blowouts. The Houston game only got away late and it only got away due to some egregious calls by the "officials".
3. In the last game the breaks were with us instead of against us, would you rather have it the other way?
4. Cassel is currently rated as the #10 QB in the NFL.
5. Cassel only has 3 interceptions on the season so far.

Granted he isn't a Joe Montana or Roger Staubach, but he is a decent QB.



I never really understood this type of logic. Where does it say that if one does not like a cartain player on a team, that one should find another team to root for?

I absolutely HATED Elvis Grbac - but KC was my favorite team even when he was the QB. Felt the same with with Todd Blackledge & Bill Kenney. Point is if ya don't like the QB, you don't have to root for another team.

BTW - I am a fan of Matt Cassel (So far) I feel that he can grow with the team. Time will tell.

HotRoute
11-05-2010, 09:33 AM
sure matt cassel isnt going to put up huge numbers, but we are winning games and that is what matters. Id rather have a guy like him, instead of a kyle orton type, who has a ton of yards and stats but not many wins to go with them. The most important stats in the NFL are Wins and loses IMHO

Fish
11-05-2010, 09:43 AM
sure matt cassel isnt going to put up huge numbers, but we are winning games and that is what matters. Id rather have a guy like him, instead of a kyle orton type, who has a ton of yards and stats but not many wins to go with them. The most important stats in the NFL are Wins and loses IMHO

What? You don't think we'd have as many wins as we do if we had a QB who could put up much better stats than Cassel?

What kind of logic is that?

milkman
11-05-2010, 09:47 AM
sure matt cassel isnt going to put up huge numbers, but we are winning games and that is what matters. Id rather have a guy like him, instead of a kyle orton type, who has a ton of yards and stats but not many wins to go with them. The most important stats in the NFL are Wins and loses IMHO

At the end of the day, football is still a team game.

Orton is putting huge stats on a crap team, a team that can't run the ball. or stop anyone on defense.

Orton, on this Chiefs team, this team would be 6-1 with a win at Indy, and possibly 7-0, with a completion on 3rd an 2 against the Texans.

Chiefnj2
11-05-2010, 09:48 AM
Orton, on this Chiefs team, this team would be 6-1 with a win at Indy,.

Orton is going to throw it and catch it too?

HotRoute
11-05-2010, 09:49 AM
What? You don't think we'd have as many wins as we do if we had a QB who could put up much better stats than Cassel?

What kind of logic is that?

My point is i would rather have wins than yardage. That is my logic. Im not saying we wouldnt have more wins if cassel had ortens numbers, but i wouldnt make that sacrafice if it meant we would be 2-6 right now

milkman
11-05-2010, 09:54 AM
Orton is going to throw it and catch it too?

If he threw it to himself, sure.

I'm certain he'd be more accurate on that throw than Cassel, like every other.

suds79
11-05-2010, 09:55 AM
Orton is going to throw it and catch it too?

Oh no. I feel another "Matt needs more weapons" take coming on.

Look Matt is working out just fine for us this year. He's not throwing picks and doing his job. Great! Maybe we can eek out a playoff win.

But he's not a top tier QB required to win a SB. We're all in agreement there right?

So long term he's simply not the answer.

Pablo
11-05-2010, 10:07 AM
If you have watched every game Matt Cassel has QB'ed and you've come away thinking "This guy is a legit NFL QB"; then you need to take up another hobby.

He is far and away the weakest link on our entire team. I like his personality. I think he's tough. I root for the guy; but you can paint a turd and it's still just a pretty piece of shit.

crazycoffey
11-05-2010, 10:17 AM
Cassel can make more throws that the ones they're asking of him. If this is the most he can do...then why start him? I'm sure Croyle can do more then. And if Croyle can't do more, then we have the worst QB situation in history.

In my memory of Croyle, he was more accurate and has the stronger arm. The question is size/health and has he the knowledge of the playbook. If it's marginally close, I don't know why he couldn't do everything that Cassel is doing, and more. -just my .02

crazycoffey
11-05-2010, 10:19 AM
For those fans in KC that can't stand Cassel. I invite you to find another team to be a fan of.




How about I keep my own opinion, still root for the chiefs and hope like hell the coaches figure out Cassel isn't the best option for MY CHIEF TEAM! So fuck off

Chiefnj2
11-05-2010, 10:20 AM
In my memory of Croyle, he was more accurate and has the stronger arm. The question is size/health and has he the knowledge of the playbook. If it's marginally close, I don't know why he couldn't do everything that Cassel is doing, and more. -just my .02

I don't think Croyle is very accurate. In fact, in short passes (which the team is stressing right now) the guy lacks any touch whatsoever.

Fish
11-05-2010, 10:29 AM
My point is i would rather have wins than yardage. That is my logic. Im not saying we wouldnt have more wins if cassel had ortens numbers, but i wouldnt make that sacrafice if it meant we would be 2-6 right now

But it's not an either-or decision. Believe it or not, it's possible to have both wins and yardage.

To think that an increase in passing yards would somehow mean we'd be 2-6 is just incomprehensible to me. If Cassel were carrying this team, you might have a point. But our running game is putting up more yards per game than our passing game at the moment. Think about that for a second. We're averaging more running yards per game than passing yards.

ForeverChiefs58
11-05-2010, 10:41 AM
Everything you need to know about Cassel

http://i56.tinypic.com/8xswup.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/258mgdk.jpg

HotRoute
11-05-2010, 10:56 AM
But it's not an either-or decision. Believe it or not, it's possible to have both wins and yardage.

To think that an increase in passing yards would somehow mean we'd be 2-6 is just incomprehensible to me. If Cassel were carrying this team, you might have a point. But our running game is putting up more yards per game than our passing game at the moment. Think about that for a second. We're averaging more running yards per game than passing yards.

As long as we play to our strengths we have a good chance, great run game and great defenses is a winning formula, cassel is obviously not the answer but he is the starter. When the offseason comes around that's when we can start looking at other options, but as far as croyle goes I don't see him as a better option, IMO

Fish
11-05-2010, 11:06 AM
As long as we play to our strengths we have a good chance, great run game and great defenses is a winning formula, cassel is obviously not the answer but he is the starter. When the offseason comes around that's when we can start looking at other options, but as far as croyle goes I don't see him as a better option, IMO

What does that have to do with the wins and yardage discussion?

And just because Cassel is the starter, that doesn't mean we all have to shrug and just accept it, and love him for the sake of team affiliation. I love this team and the progress they've made. But that doesn't mean I have to like the turd chucker behind center.

HotRoute
11-05-2010, 11:14 AM
Turd chucker....lol, ya I'm not his biggest fan either but I don't see croyle coming in and winning more games than cassel would, and since he's the only other option I think we are stuck with cassel for now. In the offseason it's another story

Sweet Daddy Hate
11-05-2010, 11:35 AM
I invite you to go fuck yourself with a rusty chain saw.

ROFL

crazycoffey
11-05-2010, 11:46 AM
I don't think Croyle is very accurate. In fact, in short passes (which the team is stressing right now) the guy lacks any touch whatsoever.

Just as accurate as Cassel, if he has the playbook, he's might be worth the try.