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wutamess
11-07-2010, 08:25 PM
Cassle played OK. Not every QB is going to nail every throw. Could he have been more consistent? Yes!

This fuggin BOWE is KILLING US!
This is 2 games he's cost us now.
I didn't see last weeks game but it could've been 3 from what I heard.

What are we to do when your best WR is costing us games?

kcpasco
11-07-2010, 08:26 PM
But it's all Matt's fault

HotRoute
11-07-2010, 08:27 PM
Draft a new one, or two, or three

Deberg_1990
11-07-2010, 08:28 PM
What are we to do when your best WR is costing us games?

Start throwing to guys named Verran Tucker and Terrance Copper??

KCrockaholic
11-07-2010, 08:28 PM
Another one?

Douche Baggins
11-07-2010, 08:28 PM
If this team were to dump Dwayne Bowe we would have the worst passing game in the league.

GloryDayz
11-07-2010, 08:29 PM
Gray tape him to the goal post for the next four days! He's a rookie in veteran clothes...

LiL stumppy
11-07-2010, 08:30 PM
But it's all Matt's fault

cassel is awful..just because he doesnt throw a lot of ints and has an ok completion rate does not mean he is not losing us games.

anybody who believes other wise is ignorant. Go count how many bad throws he has had.

He. Is. Awful.

Bane
11-07-2010, 08:31 PM
Start throwing to guys named Verran Tucker and Terrance Copper??

WIN BABY!!!!!!

DBOSHO
11-07-2010, 08:31 PM
How did bowe cost us? That was not an easy catch.

How about weis, who would rather throw on 3rd and 1, Or run jones when jamaal is producing 3 times as much?

How about cassel who throws a 1 yard pass in overtime when we needed 3 to a velcroed pope when bowe is wide open?

How about flowers, who i personally love, who lets the game winning pick slip through his fingers?

Bowe is the last person id be bitching about.

BCD
11-07-2010, 08:32 PM
Yeah, that would have sealed it. The D giving up big plays late were killers though.

ChiefsCountry
11-07-2010, 08:32 PM
Lets bitch at one of the guys with talent on this team. Bowe has been having a pretty darn good season so far.

kcpasco
11-07-2010, 08:33 PM
cassel is awful..just because he doesnt throw a lot of ints and has an ok completion rate does not mean he is not losing us games.

anybody who believes other wise is ignorant. Go count how many bad throws he has had.

He. Is. Awful.

I never said he wasn't

But I wouldn't give 2 shits if Bowe was sent packing after this season with him.

Deberg_1990
11-07-2010, 08:33 PM
How did bowe cost us? That was not an easy catch.

How about weis, who would rather throw on 3rd and 1, Or run jones when jamaal is producing 3 times as much?

How about cassel who throws a 1 yard pass in overtime when we needed 3 to a velcroed pope when bowe is wide open?

How about flowers, who i personally love, who lets the game winning pick slip through his fingers?

Bowe is the last person id be bitching about.

How about the special teams who allowed a 94 yard TD return?

DeezNutz
11-07-2010, 08:33 PM
It's all Bowe's fault. Thus, he should get zero credit for the TD reception, too.

googlegoogle
11-07-2010, 08:34 PM
We should have been drafting one wr in the draft for the last decade.

Thig Lyfe
11-07-2010, 08:34 PM
Bowe is having a very good year.

LaChapelle
11-07-2010, 08:34 PM
They are going to have to upgrade the WRs
the options at upgrading the QB are long and lean
edit: short, make that short and lean

DBOSHO
11-07-2010, 08:34 PM
How about the special teams who allowed a 94 yard TD return?

Yeah, that too!!!

RustShack
11-07-2010, 08:35 PM
I never said he wasn't

But I wouldn't give 2 shits if Bowe was sent packing after this season with him.

And you would be saying it about everyone else too after Bowe is gone. Bowe was a good receiver until we acquired Matt Cassel.

wutamess
11-07-2010, 08:36 PM
cassel is awful..just because he doesnt throw a lot of ints and has an ok completion rate does not mean he is not losing us games.

anybody who believes other wise is ignorant. Go count how many bad throws he has had.

He. Is. Awful.

I completely agree. However, we were in 2 games and would've won both if dumbass does what he's supposed to do. Catch a fuggin ball already.

tk13
11-07-2010, 08:38 PM
Bowe has helped us win a couple games too.

But I think he'll be next on the list of people's ire after we decline Cassel's option unless he starts catching the ball. Right now he gets to hide behind Cassel. I still don't know why it has to be an either/or thing. There's no excuse for some of Bowe's drops this year.

wutamess
11-07-2010, 08:38 PM
How did bowe cost us? That was not an easy catch.

How about weis, who would rather throw on 3rd and 1, Or run jones when jamaal is producing 3 times as much?

How about cassel who throws a 1 yard pass in overtime when we needed 3 to a velcroed pope when bowe is wide open?

How about flowers, who i personally love, who lets the game winning pick slip through his fingers?

Bowe is the last person id be bitching about.

Ugh... it hit him right in between the #'s. I place blame at NOONE but Bowe for this one. Cassle could've played better. the 3rd &1 bomb has no relevance when all we need to do is catch a fuggin pass when it counts. No matter how poorly ANYONE played if that almost routine pass is caught then it's curtains.

milkman
11-07-2010, 08:39 PM
How did bowe cost us? That was not an easy catch.

That is a catch that he absolutely has to make.

That ball is one of the few times that Cassel has placed the ball exactly where it has to be thrown.

DeezNutz
11-07-2010, 08:39 PM
I completely agree. However, we were in 2 games and would've one both if dumbass dos what he's supposed to do. Catch a fuggin ball already.

And if the more highly paid dumbass can play worth a fuck over the course of a game and not shit himself, or if our best player (Flowers) doesn't completely whiff on a possible deflection, or if our OC utilizes our best offensive player (Charles), or if...

One thing about the Chiefs, we like to go full clusterfuck.

Frazod
11-07-2010, 08:40 PM
Hopefully Cassel and Bowe will both be ruining games for other teams next year. I've had enough of both of them.

BossChief
11-07-2010, 08:40 PM
Lets bitch at one of the guys with talent on this team. Bowe has been having a pretty darn good season so far.

this

I hate to repeat myself from another thread, but I guess I must.

1) Bowe has a TD catch in each of the last 4 games. Without these, we very well might have lost all 4.

2) Bowe has 7 touchdown catches in 8 games. He is one of the absolute best in the NFL in this category for his position. Take into account he has done this with Matt Cassel throwing him the football.

RedThat
11-07-2010, 08:40 PM
If this team were to dump Dwayne Bowe we would have the worst passing game in the league.

We already do. What difference does it make LOL

ChiefsCountry
11-07-2010, 08:40 PM
Wow the dumbassery about getting rid of Bowe around here is fucking stupid I swear.

Phobia
11-07-2010, 08:40 PM
He catches that ball the game is over. I'm sick of him making circus catches and missing routine catches.

Was that a tough catch? Sure. Is it too much to expect a first round draft pick who is paid millions to play a game to make that catch? I don't think so. The guy can't catch.

GloryDayz
11-07-2010, 08:41 PM
How about the special teams who allowed a 94 yard TD return?

Well, we did too, but ANOTHER bad call f'd us out of our 6. You know it was bad, because they refused to replay it. Did you notice THAT? All the time in the world, it was on tape, and NOT 1 replay!! F the officials, let them burn!

stevieray
11-07-2010, 08:41 PM
[ if dumbass dos what he's supposed to do. Catch a fuggin ball already.[/QUOTE]

for some weird reason, he's not responsible for dropping crucilal, potentially game winning passes...those constitute a good season.

bobbything
11-07-2010, 08:42 PM
If this team were to dump Dwayne Bowe we would have the worst passing game in the league.

Statisically, we already do.

milkman
11-07-2010, 08:42 PM
And you would be saying it about everyone else too after Bowe is gone. Bowe was a good receiver until we acquired Matt Cassel.

I think the argument can be made that he was a more productive reciever, but that had more to do with the fact that Gonzo demanded so much attention.

But Bowe has had drop issues going back to LSU.

This is nothing new, it's just more highlighted because he has t be the man now.

tk13
11-07-2010, 08:43 PM
I should add that I don't want to get rid of guy, but there's no excuse. It's no different from Cassel for me. You see Cassel throw a freaking dart into tight coverage for a TD, then he'll chuck one 5 miles over someone's head. It's mind boggling.

It's the same thing with Bowe. He has made some AMAZING catches the last couple weeks. Truly amazing. Then with the game on the line a ball hits him right on the hands and he drops it. There is no excuse.

Buehler445
11-07-2010, 08:44 PM
If this team were to dump Dwayne Bowe we would have the worst passing game in the league.

Lets bitch at one of the guys with talent on this team. Bowe has been having a pretty darn good season so far.

Truth. He's the only one on the damn team that catches any of Cassel's horrid balls not named Tony motherfucking Moeaki. Copper has had a couple of nice catches, and this Tucker guy, had a nice one. Chambers has been non-existent. That's it. That's all. No more.

Ugh... it hit him right in between the #'s. I place blame at NOONE but Bowe for this one. Cassle could've played better. the 3rd &1 bomb has no relevance when all we need to do is catch a fuggin pass when it counts. No matter how poorly ANYONE played if that almost routine pass is caught then it's curtains.

Dude. That catch was tough. He had to stop completely and dive backwards. Should he have made the catch? Probably. Should Cassel have thrown it better? Probably, but you definitely don't want to give the defender a chance to intercept. It's just an overall tough execution and sometimes it doesn't happen. This play is not the reason we lost.

RedThat
11-07-2010, 08:45 PM
this

I hate to repeat myself from another thread, but I guess I must.

1) Bowe has a TD catch in each of the last 4 games. Without these, we very well might have lost all 4.

2) Bowe has 7 touchdown catches in 8 games. He is one of the absolute best in the NFL in this category for his position. Take into account he has done this with Matt Cassel throwing him the football.

His productivity has been monstrous. But that not the issue of where some of the fans are getting at here. whats bothering some of the fans, myself included, is his inability to perform under pressure. As a #1 WR you have to make the clutch catches at critical times to help seal the win for your team. Thats been an area where he has struggles this year.

*Jerry Rice did it, Harrison did it, Tim Brown did it....The very best of them used to do it all the time...Im not putting Bowe in that league, but that is what seperating him from being a true #1.

kcpasco
11-07-2010, 08:46 PM
Quit making excuses for Bowe, his stone hands have cost us to many times.

milkman
11-07-2010, 08:46 PM
Dude. That catch was tough. He had to stop completely and dive backwards. Should he have made the catch? Probably. Should Cassel have thrown it better? Probably, but you definitely don't want to give the defender a chance to intercept. It's just an overall tough execution and sometimes it doesn't happen. This play is not the reason we lost.

That throw and catch is made in every game.

Throw the ball short of the receiver who has a DB running side by side wth the receiver and let the receiver come back to teh ball and make a play.

That ball was thrown exactly where it had to be thrown.

That is a play that Bowe has to make.

Buehler445
11-07-2010, 08:49 PM
That throw and catch is made in every game.

Throw the ball short of the receiver who has a DB running side by side wth the receiver and let the receiver come back to teh ball and make a play.

That ball was thrown exactly where it had to be thrown.

That is a play that Bowe has to make.

The throw and catch is made every game, but that doesn't mean it is tough.

I understand the concept.

I disagree that it is where it was supposed to be. You see teams complete this all the time where the receiver can stop and catch the ball without having to dive for it, then they can still make a move.

I agree, but it is still a tough play to execute. And it is still not the sole reason we lost.

LaChapelle
11-07-2010, 08:50 PM
I wonder how close Chambers is to getting cut

ArrowheadMagic
11-07-2010, 08:51 PM
Dude. That catch was tough. He had to stop completely and dive backwards. Should he have made the catch? Probably. Should Cassel have thrown it better? Probably, but you definitely don't want to give the defender a chance to intercept. It's just an overall tough execution and sometimes it doesn't happen. This play is not the reason we lost.

Pretty obvious the ball was supposed to be thrown to Bowe's back shoulder. The ball was right where it needed to be.

milkman
11-07-2010, 08:51 PM
The throw and catch is made every game, but that doesn't mean it is tough.

I understand the concept.

I disagree that it is where it was supposed to be. You see teams complete this all the time where the receiver can stop and catch the ball without having to dive for it, then they can still make a move.

I agree, but it is still a tough play to execute. And it is still not the sole reason we lost.

No, it isn't the sloe reason we didn't win.

It is, however, the sole reason we didn't seal the win.

BossChief
11-07-2010, 08:53 PM
The throw and catch is made every game, but that doesn't mean it is tough.

I understand the concept.

I disagree that it is where it was supposed to be. You see teams complete this all the time where the receiver can stop and catch the ball without having to dive for it, then they can still make a move.

I agree, but it is still a tough play to execute. And it is still not the sole reason we lost.

yup

ArrowheadMagic
11-07-2010, 08:54 PM
And it is still not the sole reason we lost.

No it isnt. But when coupled with everything else. Its why we did. Needed to make a play and didnt.

ArrowheadMagic
11-07-2010, 08:55 PM
yup

catch the ball with your hands, not your body.

BossChief
11-07-2010, 08:55 PM
Pretty obvious the ball was supposed to be thrown to Bowe's back shoulder. The ball was right where it needed to be.

it should have been on the back shoulder, not the back foot.

But, I agree that #1 or #2 receivers on good teams have to make that catch, especially in that situation.

DeezNutz
11-07-2010, 08:55 PM
No, it isn't the sloe reason we didn't win.

It is, however, the sole reason we didn't seal the win.

And Flowers still could have saved them (Cassel and Bowe, as both were culpable on that third-down play, IMO). Catchable ball, yes, but one that could have been better thrown.

Douche Baggins
11-07-2010, 08:58 PM
Statisically, we already do.

Depends what you value.

I don't think YPG is a good indicator.

YPA and TD passes are important indicators.

ArrowheadMagic
11-07-2010, 08:58 PM
And Flowers still could have saved them (Cassel and Bowe, as both were culpable on that third-down play, IMO). Catchable ball, yes, but one that could have been better thrown.
Flowers catch was more difficult. He at least had a defender to fight.

milkman
11-07-2010, 09:02 PM
And Flowers still could have saved them (Cassel and Bowe, as both were culpable on that third-down play, IMO). Catchable ball, yes, but one that could have been better thrown.

It was a catchable that should have ben caught.

As I said elsewhere, this loss is on Weis, Bowe, and the rest of the team around Cassel.

Cassel made enough plays to win this game in regulation.

Given what he is, that's all we can ask.

Shag
11-07-2010, 09:03 PM
That throw and catch is made in every game.

Throw the ball short of the receiver who has a DB running side by side wth the receiver and let the receiver come back to teh ball and make a play.

That ball was thrown exactly where it had to be thrown.

That is a play that Bowe has to make.

I agree that Bowe has to make that catch. That being said, I don't think the ball is exactly where it needed to be - ideally, it's higher and more to the outside, allowing Bowe to stay on his feet, and make an easier catch. It was definitely a catchable pass, though.

chiefzilla1501
11-07-2010, 09:06 PM
And if the more highly paid dumbass can play worth a **** over the course of a game and not shit himself, or if our best player (Flowers) doesn't completely whiff on a possible deflection, or if our OC utilizes our best offensive player (Charles), or if...

One thing about the Chiefs, we like to go full cluster****.

So basically your solution is to blame everything that happens before the play you're supposed to make.

Doesn't matter what happens before the play happens. That was the most critical offensive play of the game. Bowe made a play that he's supposed to make. It's not like it was some tough pass or catch in traffic. It was a ball right between his numbers.

I don't understand why Cassel is blamed in Houston for fucking up a 3rd and 2, but all of a sudden it's okay for Bowe to do the same in Oakland?

Don't make excuses for the guy. There is no excuse for Bowe to drop that ball and yes, it was the most pivotal mistake of the game.

DeezNutz
11-07-2010, 09:13 PM
Given what he is, that's all we can ask.

While I agree with the overall sentiment, being a sub-par QB doesn't absolve him of shouldering some of the responsibility. It's does, however, get old having to note that he's one of the reasons we primarily struggle, and I think your post alludes to this feeling, as well.

It was a catchable ball, no question. But that was a far harder catch for Bowe than it was a difficult throw for Cassel. In other words, no way the former should have to make a diving effort.

DeezNutz
11-07-2010, 09:15 PM
So basically your solution is to blame everything that happens before the play you're supposed to make.

Doesn't matter what happens before the play happens. That was the most critical offensive play of the game. Bowe made a play that he's supposed to make. It's not like it was some tough pass or catch in traffic. It was a ball right between his numbers.

I don't understand why Cassel is blamed in Houston for ****ing up a 3rd and 2, but all of a sudden it's okay for Bowe to do the same in Oakland?

Don't make excuses for the guy. There is no excuse for Bowe to drop that ball and yes, it was the most pivotal mistake of the game.

Impressive misreading, as I laid blame at the feet of Flowers for not bailing us out on the subsequent Raiders possession. In fact, I believe Flowers is MORE culpable than Bowe because we should expect more from the team's best player.

And you make it sound like he was standing still on that catch. "Right between the numbers." Sorry, the throw wasn't close (word of the day?) to being that good.

Mecca
11-07-2010, 09:17 PM
I think it's brilliant to make threads about Bowe being the reason for the loss when a rookie 4th round pick ripped the defense and special teams repeatedly for big plays.

tk13
11-07-2010, 09:22 PM
I think that's the most amazing thing about Chiefsplanet. We can look at one play and people see it 5 different ways. I don't know that I'd say it lost us the game. That's a bit harsh. But it was definitely a play where he could've stepped up and sealed the game. And the thing was thrown right at the center of his chest between his hands.

Frazod
11-07-2010, 09:22 PM
I think it's brilliant to make threads about Bowe being the reason for the loss when a rookie 4th round pick ripped the defense and special teams repeatedly for big plays.

Yeah, because a 1st round pick who routinely drops balls laid right in his hands in crucial situations isn't a problem.

Mecca
11-07-2010, 09:23 PM
Everyone knows what Dwayne Bowe is, Brandon Flowers is the best player on the defense maybe the best player on the team and he let a rookie take the ball away from him in a game situation, who's more to blame?

Pitt Gorilla
11-07-2010, 09:24 PM
Bowe is the last person id be bitching about.Really? The "last" person? Guy has a ball right between his numbers to seal the game.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-07-2010, 09:26 PM
Flowers should've flat out knocked that fucking ball down. You don't try and pick it like that at the very end of the game. He got schooled, flat out.

Frazod
11-07-2010, 09:27 PM
Everyone knows what Dwayne Bowe is, Brandon Flowers is the best player on the defense maybe the best player on the team and he let a rookie take the ball away from him in a game situation, who's more to blame?

If Bowe does his job, it never happens.

Mecca
11-07-2010, 09:27 PM
Wanna blame something for this loss? Special teams..

Penalties negate 10 points
Gave up a kick return TD
Fumbled a kickoff
Misplayed the OT kickoff

That one unit was god awful today.

Brock
11-07-2010, 09:27 PM
I wish they would have used my plan that I just made up to trade both of their second rounders to move up and draft Dez Bryant.

Demonpenz
11-07-2010, 09:28 PM
bowe is still a good player, just f-ed up at a bad time. That rook tight end dropped a first down ball that was easier than bowes

BossChief
11-07-2010, 09:29 PM
If Bowe catches the pass that went right through his hands, that play by Flowers never happens and we are praising Cassel for making a couple plays when we needed them to win this game.

Real talk.

The laser in the endzone and that 3rd down pass were game winners.

ArrowheadMagic
11-07-2010, 09:30 PM
Everyone knows what Dwayne Bowe is, Brandon Flowers is the best player on the defense maybe the best player on the team and he let a rookie take the ball away from him in a game situation, who's more to blame?
If Bowe makes the catch, the Chiefs have a great opportunity to run the clock out, and Flowers play never happens. But every loss comes down to what play was bigger. Each individual play is to blame. At the end of the game, players had chances to make plays. and no one did.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-07-2010, 09:31 PM
If Bowe catches the pass that went right through his hands, that play by Flowers never happens and we are praising Cassel for making a couple plays when we needed them to win this game.

Real talk.

The laser in the endzone and that 3rd down pass were game winners.

Real talk. Had the refs not fucked up on the fumble, we never take the lead, and none of it ever happens.

Demonpenz
11-07-2010, 09:32 PM
The reason why these threads get started is because you white guys want some hard working dude who brings his lunch pail to work not a flashy guy like the dbowe show.

ChiefsCountry
11-07-2010, 09:32 PM
I wish they would have used my plan that I just made up to trade both of their second rounders to move up and draft Dez Bryant.

Why? This year's draft has better WR's available than Bryant.

cdcox
11-07-2010, 09:32 PM
I think that's the most amazing thing about Chiefsplanet. We can look at one play and people see it 5 different ways. I don't know that I'd say it lost us the game. That's a bit harsh. But it was definitely a play where he could've stepped up and sealed the game. And the thing was thrown right at the center of his chest between his hands.

I would say it was between knee and mid-thigh height. Bowe was definitely diving back toward Cassel. It hit him on the chest and squirted between his legs. If it was chest high, it couldn't have gone between his legs. He should have caught it, no doubt. But the throw was low of optimum. Cassel's earlier back shoulder throw to Bowe was a much better pass. But Bowe should have caught it.

the Talking Can
11-07-2010, 09:32 PM
If Bowe catches the pass that went right through his hands, that play by Flowers never happens and we are praising Cassel for making a couple plays when we needed them to win this game.

Real talk.

The laser in the endzone and that 3rd down pass were game winners.

real talk

but for a bogus fumble call on the punt, we lose after cassel threw two of the worst passes in history....

Mecca
11-07-2010, 09:33 PM
Real talk, why is Brandon Flowers single covering a dude who is about 10 times faster than he is?

Brock
11-07-2010, 09:33 PM
Why? This year's draft has better WR's available than Bryant.

I'm not worried about next year.

Frazod
11-07-2010, 09:33 PM
Wanna blame something for this loss? Special teams..

Penalties negate 10 points
Gave up a kick return TD
Fumbled a kickoff
Misplayed the OT kickoff

That one unit was god awful today.

Guilty as charged. How does that change the fact that Bowe continually pisses down his leg in big game situations?

Is there a thread about special teams suckage somewhere? This is a thread about Bowe suckage.

Was it good that he dropped a ball that hit him RIGHT IN THE HANDS with the game on the line? Were you impressed with that? Did it make you happy? Wait, don't answer that.

Mecca
11-07-2010, 09:33 PM
Why? This year's draft has better WR's available than Bryant.

That'd be great, aside from you know not picking high enough to get those guys.

Douche Baggins
11-07-2010, 09:34 PM
Frazod, have you been drinking?

DeezNutz
11-07-2010, 09:35 PM
If Bowe catches the pass that went right through his hands, that play by Flowers never happens and we are praising Cassel for making a couple plays when we needed them to win this game.

Real talk.

The laser in the endzone and that 3rd down pass were game winners.

If Cassel doesn't shit himself at the end of the first half, we never have to worry about Bowe not "icing" the game. And if Cassel throws a better ball on this critical play, perhaps the diving Bowe doesn't come up lame on the attempt.

There is a shit ton of blame to go around today: Cassel, Bowe, Jones, Flowers, Haley, Weis, refs, Carr, Brokaki, etc.

I have no idea why we want to get caught up in such reductive arguments. We lost because of breakdowns all over the team/field.

BossChief
11-07-2010, 09:35 PM
Yeah, I think they got that call right...but thats neither here nor there. Im pretty sure the ball was coming out before he hit the ground, but I cant prove one way or the other so well just leave it at that, I guess.

The refs did a horrible job of officiating this game, no doubt.

Pawnmower
11-07-2010, 09:36 PM
Frazod, have you been drinking?

havent we all

:eek:

the Talking Can
11-07-2010, 09:36 PM
Yeah, I think they got that call right...but thats neither here nor there. Im pretty sure the ball was coming out before he hit the ground, but I cant prove one way or the other so well just leave it at that, I guess.

The refs did a horrible job of officiating this game, no doubt.

real talk

they didn't get it right, and the ball wasn't coming out before he was down

Mecca
11-07-2010, 09:37 PM
Dwayne Bowe is always going to drop some passes, that's just how it is. Terrell Owens has always dropped passes, Andre Johnson has too. Everyone knows this shit is a thread every single week about it a needed thing?

Every single person here knows Bowe is gonna drop some passes it's just how it is. His production this year has been good the same as other WR's that put up numbers while dropping balls.

And with the rest of the WR's on this team they can't afford to get rid of him because the rest of the group is a pile of shit.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-07-2010, 09:37 PM
Yeah, I think they got that call right...but thats neither here nor there. Im pretty sure the ball was coming out before he hit the ground, but I cant prove one way or the other so well just leave it at that, I guess.

The refs did a horrible job of officiating this game, no doubt.

Really? That looked clear as day to me. He never fumbled until about 2 seconds after his knee was down. What's done is done, they shit it away anyways, but I really didn't think that was even close. I just sat here and laughed at stupid Tom Cable yelling at the refs. I even told the ref to look out, or Tom would break his jaw.

BossChief
11-07-2010, 09:37 PM
If Cassel doesn't shit himself at the end of the first half, we never have to worry about Bowe not "icing" the game. And if Cassel throws a better ball on this critical play, perhaps the diving Bowe doesn't come up lame on the attempt.

There is a shit ton of blame to go around today: Cassel, Bowe, Jones, Flowers, Haley, Weis, refs, Carr, Brokaki, etc.

I have no idea why we want to get caught up in such reductive arguments. We lost because of breakdowns all over the team/field.

you lost this thread because you failed to include "real talk" in your post

real talk

Frazod
11-07-2010, 09:38 PM
Frazod, have you been drinking?

No, but I probably should have been.

Pawnmower
11-07-2010, 09:38 PM
If Cassel doesn't shit himself at the end of the first half, we never have to worry about Bowe not "icing" the game. And if Cassel throws a better ball on this critical play, perhaps the diving Bowe doesn't come up lame on the attempt.

There is a shit ton of blame to go around today: Cassel, Bowe, Jones, Flowers, Haley, Weis, refs, Carr, Brokaki, etc.

I have no idea why we want to get caught up in such reductive arguments. We lost because of breakdowns all over the team/field.

Well, in my mind there is a good reason why we want to go over this list. It is called prioritizing. I know YOU put cassel at the top, but in my mind he doesnt belong there.

Demonpenz
11-07-2010, 09:38 PM
Dwayne Bowe is always going to drop some passes, that's just how it is. Terrell Owens has always dropped passes, Andre Johnson has too. Everyone knows this shit is a thread every single week about it a needed thing?

Every single person here knows Bowe is gonna drop some passes it's just how it is. His production this year has been good the same as other WR's that put up numbers while dropping balls.

And with the rest of the WR's on this team they can't afford to get rid of him because the rest of the group is a pile of shit.

andre johnson is going into the hall of fame and did you see the drop he had today? Brutal.

the Talking Can
11-07-2010, 09:38 PM
Dwayne Bowe is always going to drop some passes, that's just how it is. Terrell Owens has always dropped passes, Andre Johnson has too. Everyone knows this shit is a thread every single week about it a needed thing?

Every single person here knows Bowe is gonna drop some passes it's just how it is. His production this year has been good the same as other WR's that put up numbers while dropping balls.

And with the rest of the WR's on this team they can't afford to get rid of him because the rest of the group is a pile of shit.

none of that excuses bowe dropping a pass that would have sealed the game

real talk

he's paid to make plays, and he didn't


one of many today

chiefzilla1501
11-07-2010, 09:38 PM
If Cassel doesn't shit himself at the end of the first half, we never have to worry about Bowe not "icing" the game. And if Cassel throws a better ball on this critical play, perhaps the diving Bowe doesn't come up lame on the attempt.

There is a shit ton of blame to go around today: Cassel, Bowe, Jones, Flowers, Haley, Weis, refs, Carr, Brokaki, etc.

I have no idea why we want to get caught up in such reductive arguments. We lost because of breakdowns all over the team/field.

Because in fairness to Cassel, when a lot of things fuck up but Cassel screws up a key play in the most critical of situations, then we put the blame on him. Cassel had a very good game in Houston. But he was blamed for the loss because of the 3rd and 2. And very rightfully so.

If we're going to use that standard for Cassel, you have to use that for Bowe. The most critical play of that game by a New York mile is Bowe's drop. And yes, that play is a hell of a lot more on Bowe than it is on Cassel. It wasn't spot on, but it was a catchable ball. And NFL receivers are not supposed to miss catchable balls in those kinds of situations.

Mecca
11-07-2010, 09:39 PM
Really? That looked clear as day to me. He never fumbled until about 2 seconds after his knee was down. What's done is done, they shit it away anyways, but I really didn't think that was even close. I just sat here and laughed at stupid Tom Cable yelling at the refs. I even told the ref to look out, or Tom would break his jaw.

He looks like curly from the 3 stooges, it's bizarre.

Mecca
11-07-2010, 09:39 PM
Because in fairness to Cassel, when a lot of things fuck up but Cassel screws up a key play in the most critical of situations, then we put the blame on him. Cassel had a very good game in Houston. But he was blamed for the loss because of the 3rd and 2. And very rightfully so.

If we're going to use that standard for Cassel, you have to use that for Bowe. The most critical play of that game by a New York mile is Bowe's drop. And yes, that play is a hell of a lot more on Bowe than it is on Cassel. It wasn't spot on, but it was a catchable ball. And NFL receivers are not supposed to miss catchable balls in those kinds of situations.

I thought the most critical play was Brandon Flowers getting the ball stolen from him with about 20 seconds left?

Thig Lyfe
11-07-2010, 09:40 PM
real talk

but for a bogus fumble call on the punt, we lose after cassel threw two of the worst passes in history....

All shit-covered roads lead back to Matt Cassel.

Demonpenz
11-07-2010, 09:40 PM
none of that excuses bowe dropping a pass that would have sealed the game

real talk

he's paid to make plays, and he didn't


one of many today

uhhhhhh

Mr. Flopnuts
11-07-2010, 09:41 PM
I thought the most critical play was Brandon Flowers getting the ball stolen from him with about 20 seconds left?

Yeah. He should've just knocked that down. He does that, we win.

tk13
11-07-2010, 09:41 PM
I think everybody made mistakes that contributed to the loss today. You could point to 18 different things. From Cassel throwing a bonehead INT to the special teams to Brian Waters getting beat like a drum.

But I guess that's the nature of sports. People are often defined in what they do in clutch situations, even if they had a bad game up to that point. Despite all the BS, we had a chance to absolutely seal a victory, rendering everything that happened before and after moot, and didn't deliver. That's what people remember.

the Talking Can
11-07-2010, 09:41 PM
uhhhhhh

to clarify, i meant one of many players that didn't make plays

Pawnmower
11-07-2010, 09:42 PM
All shit-covered roads lead back to Matt Cassel.


today matty was not the biggest problem. if you are unwilling to recognize that, in this game, then you are obviously biased

wutamess
11-07-2010, 09:42 PM
Dude. That catch was tough. He had to stop completely and dive backwards. Should he have made the catch? Probably. Should Cassel have thrown it better? Probably, but you definitely don't want to give the defender a chance to intercept. It's just an overall tough execution and sometimes it doesn't happen. This play is not the reason we lost.


BS! THAT ONE play is the MAJOR reason we lost. Just like the one INDY drop. Or the one that could've cost us the game last week.

Mecca
11-07-2010, 09:43 PM
Flowers and Bowe both fucked up no question, however I don't think I've seen a bigger clusterfuck than this teams special teams were today.

BossChief
11-07-2010, 09:44 PM
The disappointing part of this whole deal is that THIS was the game that would have put us into a different class.

It would have been a game that would have put us in first place in the AFC and in cruise control of the division.

It sucks that a few of our very good young players didnt come through to make that happen.

chiefzilla1501
11-07-2010, 09:44 PM
I thought the most critical play was Brandon Flowers getting the ball stolen from him with about 20 seconds left?

I disagree.

I have always firmly believed that your offense's last drive in a close game is the most critical one. On offense, you are absolutely in the driver's seat. That's why QBs usually get blamed for losses a lot more than a CB who blew a coverage.

Yes, Flowers and the defense should have made a stop on that drive. But it should have never come to that.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-07-2010, 09:45 PM
Flowers and Bowe both fucked up no question, however I don't think I've seen a bigger clusterfuck than this teams special teams were today.

Yeah. Gave up a TD to start the 2nd half, and had one called back by Arenas. Total bullshit.

ChiefsCountry
11-07-2010, 09:45 PM
That'd be great, aside from you know not picking high enough to get those guys.

AJ Green and Julio Jones we don't have a shot at but Baldwin and Flloyd should be in our range.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-07-2010, 09:45 PM
I disagree.

I have always firmly believed that your offense's last drive in a close game is the most critical one. On offense, you are absolutely in the driver's seat. That's why QBs usually get blamed for losses a lot more than a CB who blew a coverage.

Yes, Flowers and the defense should have made a stop on that drive. But it should have never come to that.

But it did. And instead of knocking down the ball to preserve the win, Flowers tried to pad his stats and was made a fool. There's no denying that.

chiefzilla1501
11-07-2010, 09:46 PM
Flowers and Bowe both ****ed up no question, however I don't think I've seen a bigger cluster**** than this teams special teams were today.

I don't agree that this was our biggest fuck up.

But I agree that it's becoming a much bigger concern. For that matter, am I the only one that noticed that Studebaker was getting schooled on the outside? HOw many XPs/FGs were almost blocked? I know he got tagged on a holding call on that FG, but I also think that if he doesn't pull that jersey, that kick is blocked.

Frazod
11-07-2010, 09:47 PM
Those three consecutive plays that bookended halftime - interception in the endzone, kickoff return for a touchdown, fumbed kickoff return resulting in a field goal - nice 17 point swing there. God, I don't even want to think about it. :facepalm: I started feeling the icy hand of death right then and there.

Mecca
11-07-2010, 09:47 PM
AJ Green and Julio Jones we don't have a shot at but Baldwin and Flloyd should be in our range.

If Baldwin runs the 40 time he claims he can run he's a top 15 pick with ease.

BossChief
11-07-2010, 09:49 PM
another instance that could have been the difference between life and death today was that phantom PI (or defensive holding, cant remember) that gave them a first down after a failed third down pass.

There were at least five instances that could have made teh difference today, all in all we werent good enough to make them happen and we are good enough at this point to be 5-3 and not 6-2.

thats it.

the Talking Can
11-07-2010, 09:49 PM
i think the game was lost in the abortion of the last 3 minutes of the first half

Moeaki drops an easy catch on 3rd and 1 (great play design too)
Studeabaker penalty costs us a fg
McGraw int
Cassel int costs us at least 3 points

all self-inflicted....we could have put a dagger in oakland and didn't


and the defense gets a pass, imo...they held a hot offense to 10 points for most of the game while our offense choked and special teams crapped their drawers....

DeezNutz
11-07-2010, 09:50 PM
Because in fairness to Cassel, when a lot of things **** up but Cassel screws up a key play in the most critical of situations, then we put the blame on him. Cassel had a very good game in Houston. But he was blamed for the loss because of the 3rd and 2. And very rightfully so.

If we're going to use that standard for Cassel, you have to use that for Bowe. The most critical play of that game by a New York mile is Bowe's drop. And yes, that play is a hell of a lot more on Bowe than it is on Cassel. It wasn't spot on, but it was a catchable ball. And NFL receivers are not supposed to miss catchable balls in those kinds of situations.

He gets a higher standard because of the position that the plays and the money that he makes. If we're comparing a, literally, stupid WR to the leader of the offense. Yeah, the latter needs to produce more readily.

To change the subject slightly, I don't think any of us have a lot of confidence in Bowe. I think he's a viable NFL WR, no doubt, but if the game is on the line, would you rather see Brokaki attempting to make a catch in traffic or Bowe?

None of this absolves Bowe of blame. He fucked up and needs to own it. But I don't think he's necessarily the most obvious culprit for the loss, simply one of the last ones.

Thig Lyfe
11-07-2010, 09:51 PM
today matty was not the biggest problem. if you are unwilling to recognize that, in this game, then you are obviously biased

Matt is the root of this team's troubles. The playcalling is neutered because of him, the receivers have to make crazy efforts to catch his shitty throws, the defense has to go out on the field because he can't do shit on third down. He doesn't know how to make reads, he doesn't know how to handle pressure, he doesn't know how to come through in the clutch. He can't throw the long ball. He can't throw the short ball. He can't throw the medium ball.

He made a couple good throws today, but imagine if we had a quarterback who could make more than a couple good throws per game? Everything about the team changes dramatically. Playcalling opens up, drives get sustained, the defense gets more rest and their tremendous efforts don't get wasted.

He wasn't the biggest problem today. Lots of things went wrong. But he is absolutely this team's fatal flaw and ultimate undoing.

BossChief
11-07-2010, 09:52 PM
If Baldwin runs the 40 time he claims he can run he's a top 15 pick with ease.

We will probably be picking somewhere between 21-28 and there are probably 5 WRs that will hold first round grades.

One of them will probably be there.

Frazod
11-07-2010, 09:54 PM
i think the game was lost in the abortion of the last 3 minutes of the first half

Moeaki drops an easy catch on 3rd and 1 (great play design too)
Studeabaker penalty costs us a fg
McGraw int
Cassel int costs us at least 3 points

all self-inflicted....we could have put a dagger in oakland and didn't


and the defense gets a pass, imo...they held a hot offense to 10 points for most of the game while our offense choked and special teams crapped their drawers....

:clap:

Shag
11-07-2010, 09:57 PM
But it did. And instead of knocking down the ball to preserve the win, Flowers tried to pad his stats and was made a fool. There's no denying that.

WTF? You absolutely try and make the pick there, as that seals the win. It wasn't that difficult a play - it hit him in both hands. I want my star CB trying to pick that off every time. Asking him to knock it down is hindsight BS, IMHO...

Padding his stats? Seriously?

DeezNutz
11-07-2010, 09:58 PM
WTF? You absolutely try and make the pick there, as that seals the win. It wasn't that difficult a play - it hit him in both hands. I want my star CB trying to pick that off every time. Asking him to knock it down is hindsight BS, IMHO...

Padding his stats? Seriously?

Fine. Try to make the pick, but there better not be any fucking "trying" in knocking the ball down. Going for the pick and giving up the catch is inexcusable.

stevieray
11-07-2010, 10:04 PM
It was a catchable ball, no question. But that was a far harder catch for Bowe than it was a difficult throw for Cassel. In other words, no way the former should have to make a diving effort.
no way the former should have to make a diving effort? GTFOOH.

ya heaven forbid a WR ever has to dive or reach or come back for a ball.

:shake: unbelievable.

that ball hit him in the hands. at that point, it's his responsibility to make the play.


funny how every time bowe screws up on a CRUCIAL play, the same people always project his shortcomings elsewhere.

CoMoChief
11-07-2010, 10:05 PM
If this team were to dump Dwayne Bowe we would have the worst passing game in the league.

we have the 32nd ranked passing game in the NFL as it is.....can't get any worse than that.

DeezNutz
11-07-2010, 10:08 PM
no way the former should have to amke a diving effort? GTFOOH.

ya heaven forbid a WR ever has to dive or reach or come back for a ball.

:shake: unbelievable.

that ball hit him ithe hands. at that point, it's his responsibility to make the play.


funny how every time bowe screws up on a CRUCIAL play, the same peole always projects his shortcomings elsewhere.

Yes, "should have to." The throw wasn't that hard for an NFL QB. It was good enough but could have been better.

Saying it "hit him in the hands" is disingenuous. It was a little harder catch than that. Definitely one that should have been made, though.

stevieray
11-07-2010, 10:11 PM
It was good enough

Definitely one that should have been made, though.

I agree...the rest was BS.

DeezNutz
11-07-2010, 10:13 PM
I agree...the rest was BS.

Deflecting Cassel's shortcomings?

CoMoChief
11-07-2010, 10:17 PM
That ball was a good thrown ball to Bowe's back shoulder......the ONLY place in that situation where the ball could have been thrown to. Bowe fucked it up not Cassel.

Cassel had his fair share of shitty passes, but that wasn't one of them.

Chiefshrink
11-07-2010, 10:26 PM
Like I said earlier a few weeks back Bowe is 'still not' through breaking our hearts:rolleyes: It will happen again and again. He is a 5 O'Clock hitter plain and simple.:rolleyes:

stevieray
11-07-2010, 10:29 PM
Deflecting Cassel's shortcomings?

no, you're the one who keeps deflecting to Cassel in a repetitive themed Bowe thread.

1. yes, a WR SHOULD have to dive, or jump or reach or slide or whatever it ****ing takes to catch the ball...especially if THAT catch seals the game. that's what good players do. that's what good teams do.

2. the ball hit him in the hands. he blew it. saying it should have been thrown better/or been 'easier' to catch is disengenuous.

FanaticalFan
11-07-2010, 10:50 PM
And you would be saying it about everyone else too after Bowe is gone. Bowe was a good receiver until we acquired Matt Cassel.

Word! :clap:

LaChapelle
11-07-2010, 11:00 PM
<TABLE class=bgBdr border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=bgC vAlign=top><TD width=90>4th-8-KC12</TD><TD width=100>Punt</TD><TD>Dustin Colquitt punts 53 yards to Oak35, Nick Miller returns to Oak38 for 3 yards</TD></TR><TR class=bgHdr1><TD colSpan=3></TD></TR><TR class=bgHdr1Home><TD colSpan=3>Raiders ball, 13:39</TD></TR><TR class=bgC vAlign=top><TD width=90>1st-10-Oak38</TD><TD width=100>Pass</TD><TD>Jason Campbell Pass to Jacoby Ford to KC15 for 47 yards</TD></TR><TR class=bgC vAlign=top><TD width=90>1st-10-KC15</TD><TD width=100>Rush</TD><TD>Darren McFadden Off Right Guard to KC15 for no gain</TD></TR><TR class=bgC vAlign=top><TD width=90>2nd-10-KC15</TD><TD width=100>Time Out</TD><TD>Kansas City Chiefs timeout.</TD></TR><TR class=bgC vAlign=top><TD width=90>2nd-10-KC15</TD><TD width=100>Made Field Goal</TD><TD>Sebastian Janikowski 33 yard field goal is GOOD. Holder-Shane Lechler
KC 20 Oak 23

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Buehler445
11-08-2010, 07:07 AM
BS! THAT ONE play is the MAJOR reason we lost. Just like the one INDY drop. Or the one that could've cost us the game last week.

Yeah. But if we don't do one of bthe fucking million other bonehead things we did the game isn't even in contention on that play.
Posted via Mobile Device

Tuckdaddy
11-08-2010, 07:21 AM
cassel is awful..just because he doesnt throw a lot of ints and has an ok completion rate does not mean he is not losing us games.

anybody who believes other wise is ignorant. Go count how many bad throws he has had.

He. Is. Awful.

No doubt he is but our WR's are just as bad. Lenny the cool was saying it on the radio. Our Wr's can't get away from coverage for shit. No speed means we had better spend our first pick on the best avaiable we can get.

Chief Henry
11-08-2010, 07:44 AM
Cassel had his fair share of shitty passes, but that wasn't one of them.



Spot on

patteeu
11-08-2010, 09:11 AM
How did bowe cost us? That was not an easy catch.

Please. It wasn't a hard catch.

There were plenty of plays that could have made the difference between a win and a loss, so it's unfair to put all the blame for the loss on Bowe just because he was the last point of failure when the offense could have iced the game away. But WRs need to make that catch.

MahiMike
11-08-2010, 10:07 AM
I agree. That was not a tough catch to make. Hit him right in the stomach. 2 games are on D Bowe. You know our receivers suck when the rookie TE is running the deep slant instead.

Fish
11-08-2010, 10:57 AM
Here's a pic from the Star. I thought this was a pretty good indicator of how low Bowe had to get to try and catch this ball that would have iced the game. It wasn't uncatchable, but clearly not just a simple brickheaded drop.

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/9939/raiderschiefs1255sp1171.jpg

DeezNutz
11-08-2010, 11:04 AM
Why is Bowe on the ground when I heard that the pass hit him "right in the numbers"?

Fish
11-08-2010, 11:05 AM
Why is Bowe on the ground when I heard that the pass hit him "right in the numbers"?

It hit the numbers on the field.... not the numbers on the jersey...

patteeu
11-08-2010, 11:26 AM
The ball hit him in the numbers as he was dropping to the ground. It was a standard catch made by much less gifted receivers all the time. It should be considered a drop.

patteeu
11-08-2010, 11:28 AM
Why is Bowe on the ground when I heard that the pass hit him "right in the numbers"?

Because the picture is taken after the play is over.

Pawnmower
11-08-2010, 11:28 AM
It should be considered a drop.

It is absolutely a drop....It was a routine very catchable ball....Thrown to where ONLY the receiver had a chance on it.

Anyone arguing that that particular play was not DBowe's fault is a fucking idiot.

Brock
11-08-2010, 11:29 AM
That's a pretty routine catch in the NFL.

Fish
11-08-2010, 11:31 AM
The ball hit him in the numbers as he was dropping to the ground. It was a standard catch made by much less gifted receivers all the time. It should be considered a drop.

Why would he need to drop to the ground then?

If it were a routine throw, he would have no reason to lay his body out horizontally to try and catch it. Hitting him in the numbers doesn't mean much when Bowe is practically laying on his stomach in an effort to get the ball....

Again, I'm not saying it wasn't uncatchable. But to say any WR would scoop that up is going way too far IMO...

Chiefnj2
11-08-2010, 11:34 AM
Why would he need to drop to the ground then?

If it were a routine throw, he would have no reason to lay his body out horizontally to try and catch it. Hitting him in the numbers doesn't mean much when Bowe is practically laying on his stomach in an effort to get the ball....

Again, I'm not saying it wasn't uncatchable. But to say any WR would scoop that up is going way too far IMO...

You didn't watch it, did you?

Fish
11-08-2010, 11:36 AM
Because the picture is taken after the play is over.

Not exactly. The ball is still in the frame, and Bowe is still in the midst of clutching for the ball.

If you watch the replay, it never even hit Bowe's chest. The ball skimmed directly under him as he was diving downward for it. The ball skipped off the ground like a stone over the water. That should give you an indication of the trajectory angle.

Pawnmower
11-08-2010, 11:36 AM
Why would he need to drop to the ground then?

If it were a routine throw, he would have no reason to lay his body out horizontally to try and catch it. ...But to say any WR would scoop that up is going way too far IMO...

He didn't need to lay his body out to catch it...It was a come-back route, basically he just needed to get low...It was very, very routine. He got low and the ball hit him in the numbers and bounced off of his chest and then to the ground. It passed right through his hands.

I really don't see how you can be arguing that this was not Bowe's fault....It was a timing pattern...timing patterns happen all the time in the NFL....Cassel hit his spot at the correct time, Dbowe did not catch the ball...

It isn't rocket science whose fault it is.

Fish
11-08-2010, 11:37 AM
He didn't need to lay his body out to catch it...It was a come-back route, basically he just needed to get low...It was very, very routine. He got low and the ball hit him in the numbers and bounced off of his chest and then to the ground. It passed right through his hands.

I really don't see how you can be arguing that this was not Bowe's fault....It was a timing pattern...timing patterns happen all the time in the NFL....Cassel hit his spot at the correct time, Dbowe did not catch the ball...

It isn't rocket science whose fault it is.

BS. It didn't hit his body.

Brock
11-08-2010, 11:38 AM
I think it did hit his body. Need a gif, I suppose.

Pawnmower
11-08-2010, 11:38 AM
BS. It didn't hit his body.

So it went between his arm and his chest under his arm pit? Right through his hands?

He cant make a 2 inch adjustment?

You do not even address the main point...It is a TIMING pattern...

Cassel hit the spot...Bowe couldnt catch a catchable ball..

Period.

stevieray
11-08-2010, 11:39 AM
BS. It didn't hit his body.
dude, you're wrong. went right through his hands, hit his chest, hit the ground.

Pawnmower
11-08-2010, 11:40 AM
I think it did hit his body. Need a gif, I suppose.

I thought so too, but I don't have access to a replay. It looked like it did at the time....If not it went right through his hands under his arm pit.

MOhillbilly
11-08-2010, 11:41 AM
dude, you're wrong. went right through his hands, hit his chest, hit the ground.

thats the way i saw it.

JASONSAUTO
11-08-2010, 11:45 AM
I think it did hit his body. Need a gif, I suppose.

even if it didnt hit his body it hit him in the hands. (which IIRC is where a WR is SUPPOSED to catch the ball, if it got to his body HE fucked up)

should have been an easy catch.

HemiEd
11-08-2010, 11:45 AM
He catches that ball the game is over. I'm sick of him making circus catches and missing routine catches.

Was that a tough catch? Sure. Is it too much to expect a first round draft pick who is paid millions to play a game to make that catch? I don't think so. The guy can't catch.

This. I keep going back to that play, more than any other.

Fish
11-08-2010, 11:51 AM
Trajectory....

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/625/bowei.jpg

It was thrown really low, and went right through his hands and bounced off the ground just outside his right thigh.

AGAIN.... not saying it wasn't catchable. But you can't say it should have been guaranteed. If the ball would have been 3 feet higher, maybe.... But it didn't have to be thrown a foot off the ground.

Pawnmower
11-08-2010, 11:56 AM
Trajectory....

It was thrown really low, and went right through his hands

IT WENT THROUGH HIS HANDS.

ON A TIMING PATTERN. IN THE NFL.

What do you not understand about this?

Cassel hit the correct spot (the receiver's hands)...he threw the ball before Dbowe got there...this is called a TIMING PATTERN.

Jesus ****ign christ you are thick.

Putting the picture up of the ball on the ground AFTER dbowe DROPPED it doesn't prove anything other than what everyone already knows. HE DROPPED THE BALL. Even according to you.

Fish
11-08-2010, 12:00 PM
IT WENT THROUGH HIS HANDS.

ON A TIMING PATTERN. IN THE NFL.

What do you not understand about this?

Cassel hit the correct spot (the receiver's hands)...he threw the ball before Dbowe got there...this is called a TIMING PATTERN.

Jesus ****ign christ you are thick.

I get what you're saying dipshit. But the fact that it was a timing pattern doesn't dismiss the fact that the ball was barely a foot off the ground when it got to him. Sure lots of players make that catch. But lots of players also miss that catch.

Pawnmower
11-08-2010, 12:05 PM
But the fact that it was a timing pattern doesn't dismiss the fact that the ball was barely a foot off the ground when it got to him. Sure lots of players make that catch. But lots of players also miss that catch.

Lets see a video of the drop. You keep pulling shit out of your ass like it was a foot off the ground, and that it didn't touch him...Let's see a video replay.

The only thing that everyone is sure of so far is that the ball went through his hands. He should have caught the ball. Cassel's throw was good enough to get the job done, and Dbowe dropped it. Why are you defending Dbowe on that play? It was bad......to say 'a lot of players miss that pass' is buillshit too. A lot of players get bounced the fuck out of the NFL too......But not a lot of #1 receivers miss that ball. You are being totally dishonest IMO.

Chiefnj2
11-08-2010, 12:16 PM
The ball was low, but he still should have had it. Routine catch.

Fish
11-08-2010, 12:22 PM
Lets see a video of the drop. You keep pulling shit out of your ass like it was a foot off the ground, and that it didn't touch him...Let's see a video replay.

The only thing that everyone is sure of so far is that the ball went through his hands. He should have caught the ball. Cassel's throw was good enough to get the job done, and Dbowe dropped it. Why are you defending Dbowe on that play? It was bad......to say 'a lot of players miss that pass' is buillshit too. A lot of players get bounced the fuck out of the NFL too......But not a lot of #1 receivers miss that ball. You are being totally dishonest IMO.

I've already asked for a gif of the play. We'll see.

I'm not defending Bowe. I've repeatedly said that he could have caught it. But I disagree with saying anybody could have caught it, and it should have been a guaranteed catch. The odds of scooping up a ball that low aren't as high as if the ball would have been thrown at chest level. Bowe had to lay out horizontally a foot off the ground to be in position. You can't even see the defender in the still pic, there was no reason for the ball to be that low.

Pablo
11-08-2010, 12:25 PM
I get what you're saying dipshit. But the fact that it was a timing pattern doesn't dismiss the fact that the ball was barely a foot off the ground when it got to him. Sure lots of players make that catch. But lots of players also miss that catch.It was just another case of DumBowe doing what he does best. Letting an easy, sure catch go directly through his hands and hit him in the chest plate.

He'll be sure to do a 540 over 4 defenders for a TD catch next week and we'll all forget how wildly inconsistent he is for a while.

dirk digler
11-08-2010, 12:56 PM
I want to see the gif of the play but from my recollection he dived and I remember seeing his numbers clearly and the ball going through his arms like a QB throwing the ball through a hoop.

Chiefnj2
11-08-2010, 12:57 PM
I don't think a .gif is going to change anybody's mind. Some people will blame Cassel no matter what.

JASONSAUTO
11-08-2010, 01:01 PM
I don't think a .gif is going to change anybody's mind. Some people will blame Cassel no matter what.

THIS

wutamess
11-08-2010, 01:08 PM
Not exactly. The ball is still in the frame, and Bowe is still in the midst of clutching for the ball.

If you watch the replay, it never even hit Bowe's chest. The ball skimmed directly under him as he was diving downward for it. The ball skipped off the ground like a stone over the water. That should give you an indication of the trajectory angle.

That pic was taken after the ball hit the ground and is bouncing back up.
Bowe was actually starting his fal when the ball hit him in the #'s.

wutamess
11-08-2010, 01:11 PM
BS. It didn't hit his body.

BS! It DID!

Fish
11-08-2010, 01:12 PM
That pic was taken after the ball hit the ground and is bouncing back up.
Bowe was actually starting his fal when the ball hit him in the #'s.

Yes the pic is obviously a millisecond after the ball got to him. But my point still stands.

The gif should show it much better.

Brock
11-08-2010, 01:13 PM
Trajectory....

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/625/bowei.jpg


Or maybe....

googlegoogle
11-08-2010, 01:15 PM
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qFGBJz4YFWU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qFGBJz4YFWU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

wutamess
11-08-2010, 01:22 PM
Trajectory....

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/625/bowei.jpg

It was thrown really low, and went right through his hands and bounced off the ground just outside his right thigh.

AGAIN.... not saying it wasn't catchable. But you can't say it should have been guaranteed. If the ball would have been 3 feet higher, maybe.... But it didn't have to be thrown a foot off the ground.

FYP :thumb:

Fish
11-08-2010, 01:27 PM
Both of your corrected drawings still leave the ball lower than knee level.....

dirk digler
11-08-2010, 01:29 PM
Both of your corrected drawings still leave the ball lower than knee level.....

We will just have to see the front showing replay they showed during the game. It literally went through his arms and I don't think he even touched it.

raybec 4
11-08-2010, 02:03 PM
If this team were to dump Dwayne Bowe we would have the worst passing game in the league.

ROFL

Brock
11-08-2010, 02:07 PM
Both of your corrected drawings still leave the ball lower than knee level.....

Well, I can only work with the picture you supplied, which doesn't account for Bowe's body position when the ball actually got to him.

Pawnmower
11-08-2010, 02:08 PM
lets see the video...

I still have yet to understand what KCFish's point is....

Are you seriously trying to say that that play was Cassel's fault and not Dbowe's?

Fish
11-08-2010, 02:15 PM
lets see the video...

I still have yet to understand what KCFish's point is....

Are you seriously trying to say that that play was Cassel's fault and not Dbowe's?

Gosh I'm shocked that you don't understand.

Let me reference a previous response... to you no less... that sums this up. Hopefully you can comprehend it once I shorten it up to only a few sentences...



I'm not defending Bowe. I've repeatedly said that he could have caught it. But I disagree with saying anybody could have caught it, and it should have been a guaranteed catch.

FAX
11-08-2010, 02:23 PM
FYP :thumb:

Wow.

That's like the Magic Bullet Theory of football passes. The ball is thrown low, hits him in the numbers, goes through his hands, dips down, goes right, dips down again, and bounces by his right leg.

Heck. He should have caught that thing three times.

FAX

RedThat
11-08-2010, 02:41 PM
He catches that ball the game is over. I'm sick of him making circus catches and missing routine catches.

Was that a tough catch? Sure. Is it too much to expect a first round draft pick who is paid millions to play a game to make that catch? I don't think so. The guy can't catch.

That is what I can't understand about him.

One week he looks fantastic making these circus catches, and then another week he misses the routine catch. The guy clearly has issues executing. His inconsistencies are somewhat of an obstacle or downfall to this team.

*I think D Bowe can catch, he's shown he is capable of doing that. The Chiefs know he has the talent. If the dude can make phenomenal catches, Im sure he can make the routine catches. Its his inability to respond under pressure, and perform at key critical times late in games. To me, that is a mental thingy. I just don't think he has the mental makeup to be a #1 WR in this league. He cracks under pressure. The guy is not a clutch player. I don't know what the cause is for that. Maybe he gets the jitters? Who knows.

BossChief
11-08-2010, 02:43 PM
I hate Keith Hernandez!

BossChief
11-08-2010, 02:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkCQ8qR5-i0&feature=related

embed disabled

FAX
11-08-2010, 02:48 PM
That is what I can't understand about him.

One week he looks fantastic making these circus catches, and then another week he misses the routine catch. The guy clearly has issues executing. His inconsistencies are somewhat of an obstacle or downfall to this team.

*I think D Bowe can catch, he's shown he is capable of doing that. The Chiefs know he has the talent. If the dude can make phenomenal catches, Im sure he can make the routine catches. Its his inability to respond under pressure, and perform at key critical times late in games. To me, that is a mental thingy. I just don't think he has the mental makeup to be a #1 WR in this league. He cracks under pressure. The guy is not a clutch player. I don't know what the cause is for that. Maybe he gets the jitters? Who knows.

That particular abortion was a timing pattern, Mr. RedThat. Maybe Bowe should have sneaked a quick peep back at the QB to get an idea on the possible trajectory (a Bowe peep, if you will), but normally, on those plays, the receiver turns his head and the ball is already on its way.

The thing about a timing pattern, though (and I know I'll get slammed for this, okay?), is that the ball has to be where the receiver can catch it ... where he expects it. I doubt that Bowe was expecting to turn and immediately have to dive for a ball that's a foot and a half off the mud.

I hope we can get a gif of this deal, because I don't think that was the easiest catch in the whole world. Again, he wasn't coming back for the ball ... it was a timing pattern. Help your receiver. Throw the pass where the guy has a chance to make the play.

FAX

Pawnmower
11-08-2010, 02:48 PM
I'm not defending Bowe.

Yes, you are.

You need to get a dictionary and look up the word in the dictionary.

DeezNutz
11-08-2010, 02:50 PM
That particular abortion was a timing pattern, Mr. RedThat. Maybe Bowe should have sneaked a quick peep back at the QB to get an idea on the possible trajectory (a Bowe peep, if you will), but normally, on those plays, the receiver turns his head and the ball is already on its way.

The thing about a timing pattern, though (and I know I'll get slammed for this, okay?), is that the ball has to be where the receiver can catch it ... where he expects it. I doubt that Bowe was expecting to turn and immediately have to dive for a ball that's a foot and a half off the mud.

I hope we can get a gif of this deal, because I don't think that was the easiest catch in the whole world. Again, he wasn't coming back for the ball ... it was a timing pattern. Help your receiver. Throw the pass where the guy has a chance to make the play.

FAX

FAXtabulator.

Pawnmower
11-08-2010, 02:52 PM
I doubt that Bowe was expecting to turn and immediately have to dive for a ball that's a foot and a half off the mud.


I dont think he really had to dive much...That is kind of an exaggeration...I can't wait to see the play again, because it just seemed like an ordinary "come-back" timing pattern...The ball was a little low, but any NFL receiver makes that catch a majority of the time IMO.

BossChief
11-08-2010, 02:55 PM
That particular abortion was a timing pattern, Mr. RedThat. Maybe Bowe should have sneaked a quick peep back at the QB to get an idea on the possible trajectory (a Bowe peep, if you will), but normally, on those plays, the receiver turns his head and the ball is already on its way.

The thing about a timing pattern, though (and I know I'll get slammed for this, okay?), is that the ball has to be where the receiver can catch it ... where he expects it. I doubt that Bowe was expecting to turn and immediately have to dive for a ball that's a foot and a half off the mud.

I hope we can get a gif of this deal, because I don't think that was the easiest catch in the whole world. Again, he wasn't coming back for the ball ... it was a timing pattern. Help your receiver. Throw the pass where the guy has a chance to make the play.

FAX

This is absolutely true and it perfectly illustrates how the expectations for Bowe are much higher (in our eyes) than for Cassel.

People want Bowe to be "Shaun Smithd" (TM) for not catching a ball that not too many NFL receivers can make that type of adjustment to and actually reel in and people have obviously grown tired of having the expectation level of Cassel being so high that they actually are now OK with poorly thrown balls and count them as catchable.

The truth is that Bowe has done quite well since the Colts game when he totally shit the bed and that the blame on this specific play falls on both players.

If that ball is waist high, the defender still has no chance at it and the game is likely over and if Bowe doesn't make a great adjustment to a poorly thrown ball and then just let it go right through his hands, its also game over.

**EDIT**

real talk

FAX
11-08-2010, 02:58 PM
I dont think he really had to dive much...That is kind of an exaggeration...I can't wait to see the play again, because it just seemed like an ordinary "come-back" timing pattern...The ball was a little low, but any NFL receiver makes that catch a majority of the time IMO.

Honestly, I only have a vague recollection of that play because I was having seizures at the time, Mr. Pawnmower.

Nevertheless, this was one of those deals where everybody screwed up. Repeatedly.

Actually (and I mentioned this somewhere else, but I don't recall where), I put most of the blame on Haley. He didn't have our guys ready for the Skunk Nest.

We came out with big time nerves (you could really tell), we played a sloppy game (TJ fumbles?), the o-line was crap, Cassel had happy feet, and we had more penalties in that game than we've probably had, to date, all season long.

I think Haley should have a long, heart-to-heart with Marty about what it takes to get your team ready for these division games ... especially the Convicts. Our offense looked intimidated at times ... no excuse for that.

FAX

DeezNutz
11-08-2010, 02:58 PM
The Cassel-effect is illustrated by the in-game arguments about the "close" pass that our QB threw to Brokaki, who managed to get fingertips on the ball, after a full-extension dive.

Nevermind that he was wide the fuck open.

Fish
11-08-2010, 03:01 PM
I dont think he really had to dive much...That is kind of an exaggeration...I can't wait to see the play again, because it just seemed like an ordinary "come-back" timing pattern...The ball was a little low, but any NFL receiver makes that catch a majority of the time IMO.

LOL... yeah... except his elbows were on the ground before the ball even had a chance to pass his feet. We're talking milliseconds. That's anything but a "majority of the time" catch. You can't look at the pic and still say he didn't really have to dive. He's still in mid-grasp.

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/625/bowei.jpg

BossChief
11-08-2010, 03:03 PM
The Cassel-effect is illustrated by the in-game arguments about the "close" pass that our QB threw to Brokaki, who managed to get fingertips on the ball, after a full-extension dive.

Nevermind that he was wide the fuck open.
I agree.

Its also telling that NOBODY is talking about that late pass to Moeaki that was knocked down...when that pass was thrown, he had two full steps on his man and nothing between him and the endzone.

People have obviously lowered the bar for Cassel.

A good NFL QB would have had 300+ today and sustained twice as many drives.

We ran the ball on third and long in Raider territory FFS

chiefzilla1501
11-08-2010, 03:15 PM
Not a perfect pass, but perfectly catchable. Also, you'll see from his eyes that he sees that the ball is coming out very well before he makes the catch.

9 receivers out of 10 make that catch in that kind of clutch situation.

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5265/bowe3.gif
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/9959/bowe2.gif
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/8421/bowe1.gif

dirk digler
11-08-2010, 03:18 PM
That last picture says it all. It went right through his arms like it was a giant hoop. That was a good pass and Bowe just whiffed on it.

DeezNutz
11-08-2010, 03:18 PM
9 out of 10? LMAO. My sources say 6.8 out of 10.

Blick
11-08-2010, 03:19 PM
We also could have sustained some more drives if we would have ran the ball worth a shit, particularly on 2nd and 3rd and short.

The Bowe drop was not the greatest throw, but definitely catchable...although I think people are underestimating the difficulty of a catch like that. On a low throw like that, there's no way to really catch the ball naturally with your hands. When you have to dive and cradle the ball with your chest like that, it's easy for the ball to bounce off or slip through.

Jumping, acrobatic catches are actually easier because you can use your gloves.

FAX
11-08-2010, 03:19 PM
Hmmm. Need to see it in real time speed, but based solely on those stills, it looks like a tough, but catchable ball.

FAX

wutamess
11-08-2010, 03:21 PM
I agree.

Its also telling that NOBODY is talking about that late pass to Moeaki that was knocked down...when that pass was thrown, he had two full steps on his man and nothing between him and the endzone.

People have obviously lowered the bar for Cassel.

A good NFL QB would have had 300+ today and sustained twice as many drives.

We ran the ball on third and long in Raider territory FFS

Great points but as my dad debated your same observations.
Could it be Cassle is more scrutinized because he touches the ball EVERY FREAKIN PLAY?

Bowe had 12 targets last night & 1 was a HUGE drop. 2-3 Bowe ran the wrong routes and I can only assume some were bad throws. He only caught 5.


Cassels 3rd & 1 bomb to Meoki was almost perfect. He had to throw it over the defenders head as the defender was coming from underneath.

I've been a Cassel hater also, but he keeps us in games and we're competitive. If Bowe makes the Indy catch and last nights catch we're possibly 7-1 and Cassel might be known as a QB that can win games for us. It's hard to tell when he's throwing to what he's throwing to.

We'd never know until we get some WR's that can catch the damn ball.

Fish
11-08-2010, 03:31 PM
We also could have sustained some more drives if we would have ran the ball worth a shit, particularly on 2nd and 3rd and short.

The Bowe drop was not the greatest throw, but definitely catchable...although I think people are underestimating the difficulty of a catch like that. On a low throw like that, there's no way to really catch the ball naturally with your hands. When you have to dive and cradle the ball with your chest like that, it's easy for the ball to bounce off or slip through.

Jumping, acrobatic catches are actually easier because you can use your gloves.

Exactly. In effect, you have to get your hands under the ball and catch it with your fingers pointing toward the ground and thumbs pointing outward when it's that low. As opposed to having your palms outward facing the ball and your fingers pointing up in the air like an ideal chest level catch. When your palms are facing the ball catching at chest level, you can use your thumbs, which are pointing toward each other, to apply pressure. On Bowe's miss, he's catching it with the bottoms of his hands, with thumbs pointed outward in opposite directions.

And Bowe's body position makes it even tougher, as he can't use his body to help stop the ball. That's not an easy catch. Definitely doable, but not 9 out of 10.

JASONSAUTO
11-08-2010, 03:37 PM
9 out of 10? LMAO. My sources say 6.8 out of 10.

i would say 9 out of 10 GOOD WRs make that catch. you know the ones who are what bowe THINKS he is.




BOWESHOW? ROFL

wutamess
11-08-2010, 03:39 PM
Exactly. In effect, you have to get your hands under the ball and catch it with your fingers pointing toward the ground and thumbs pointing outward when it's that low. As opposed to having your palms outward facing the ball and your fingers pointing up in the air like an ideal chest level catch. When your palms are facing the ball catching at chest level, you can use your thumbs, which are pointing toward each other, to apply pressure. On Bowe's miss, he's catching it with the bottoms of his hands, with thumbs pointed outward in opposite directions.

And Bowe's body position makes it even tougher, as he can't use his body to help stop the ball. That's not an easy catch. Definitely doable, but not 9 out of 10.

It's 9 outta 10 for the avg WR. Ball was VERY catchable.
Bowes body position was perfect. The ball could've been a foot or so higher but that's irrelevant in the overall scheme of things.

BOWE just wiffed like he did in Indy.
By your standards the Indy ball wasn't a good ball.

Extra Point
11-08-2010, 03:39 PM
The Cassel-effect is illustrated by the in-game arguments about the "close" pass that our QB threw to Brokaki, who managed to get fingertips on the ball, after a full-extension dive.

Nevermind that he was wide the **** open.

And Lee Harvey Oswald aimed from the grassy knoll.

Goddamn, DeezNutz! Critical much?

JASONSAUTO
11-08-2010, 03:40 PM
Exactly. In effect, you have to get your hands under the ball and catch it with your fingers pointing toward the ground and thumbs pointing outward when it's that low. As opposed to having your palms outward facing the ball and your fingers pointing up in the air like an ideal chest level catch. When your palms are facing the ball catching at chest level, you can use your thumbs, which are pointing toward each other, to apply pressure. On Bowe's miss, he's catching it with the bottoms of his hands, with thumbs pointed outward in opposite directions.

And Bowe's body position makes it even tougher, as he can't use his body to help stop the ball. That's not an easy catch. Definitely doable, but not 9 out of 10.


what does the position of his hands have to do with it? look at the 2nd pic again. he made a basketball hoop and cassel threw right through it.


and no mention from anyone about the pass to the EZ that took out the back pylon? I would have sworn that would be the "new" goal post hail mary.

DeezNutz
11-08-2010, 03:40 PM
i would say 9 out of 10 GOOD WRs make that catch. you know the ones who are what bowe THINKS he is.




BOWESHOW? ROFL

I agree. A #1 WR should make that catch. How does this relate to Bowe? #2 WRs need a better throw from their "franchise" QB. :D

JASONSAUTO
11-08-2010, 03:42 PM
I agree. A #1 WR should make that catch. How does this relate to Bowe? #2 WRs need a better throw from their "franchise" QB. :D

so #2 WRs arent "good"?




:D

notorious
11-08-2010, 03:47 PM
Bowe is definately a #2.



His pass catching ability reminds me of a #2 being "dropped" from my ass sphincter into the porcelain throne.

dirk digler
11-08-2010, 03:48 PM
what does the position of his hands have to do with it? look at the 2nd pic again. he made a basketball hoop and cassel threw right through it.


and no mention from anyone about the pass to the EZ that took out the back pylon? I would have sworn that would be the "new" goal post hail mary.

Yep. In my other post I said last pic but it is the 2nd pic that reminds of the replay that they showed. Ball went through a hoop.

Fish
11-08-2010, 03:52 PM
what does the position of his hands have to do with it? look at the 2nd pic again. he made a basketball hoop and cassel threw right through it.


A lot. Have you ever caught a football? This isn't difficult to understand.

The first thing a receiver needs to learn is the correct way to hold his hands to make a reception. For all passes that are even with the receiver's numbers or above, the thumbs and the first fingers of the receiver's hands should be together. They should form a basket or cone in which the ball will be caught.

If the pass is delivered below the numbers, the receiver will have to change the position of his hands as he makes the catch. Instead of having the thumbs together, the receiver must put his little fingers together, causing his hands to form a basket or mitt in which to make the reception.
http://www.usafootball.com/articles/displayArticle/5361/4512

Guess which method is more difficult? Now add the fact that Bowe was diving, and couldn't use his body to stop the ball at all.

mikey23545
11-08-2010, 03:52 PM
LOL... yeah... except his elbows were on the ground before the ball even had a chance to pass his feet. We're talking milliseconds. That's anything but a "majority of the time" catch. You can't look at the pic and still say he didn't really have to dive. He's still in mid-grasp.

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/625/bowei.jpg

Obviously a lot of you fucks don't have tivos or DVRs...The ball came into Bowe's body just barely below waist level. There was no real reason to flop on the ground except for the fact he's a fucking imbecile. It slid through his arms as he tried to catch it with his body.

Any high school player would have caught it with ease.

JASONSAUTO
11-08-2010, 03:57 PM
A lot. Have you ever caught a football? This isn't difficult to understand.

http://www.usafootball.com/articles/displayArticle/5361/4512

Guess which method is more difficult? Now add the fact that Bowe was diving, and couldn't use his body to stop the ball at all.

well it shouldnt be too awful hard for you to understand that it doesnt matter what position his hands were in to grip the ball when it looks by those pics he didnt get his fucking hands on it.


again look at the 2nd pic, how would he grip that ball?

Fish
11-08-2010, 03:58 PM
well it shouldnt be too awful hard for you to understand that it doesnt matter what position his hands were in to grip the ball when it looks by those pics he didnt get his fucking hands on it.

:facepalm:

JASONSAUTO
11-08-2010, 04:03 PM
:facepalm:


figured thats what you would come up with.



bowe lets the ball get to his body too often. sorry if you dont see it.

ChiefsCountry
11-08-2010, 04:12 PM
Basically it looked like Bowe went for the scoop catch but Cassel's pass actually hit where it was suppose to, thus causing the basketball in the hoop miss on Bowe's part.

JASONSAUTO
11-08-2010, 04:13 PM
Basically it looked like Bowe went for the scoop catch but Cassel's pass actually hit where it was suppose to, thus causing the basketball in the hoop miss on Bowe's part.

thank you.

googlegoogle
11-08-2010, 04:17 PM
http://chud.com/articles/content_images/117/WHATSHAPPENING7.JPG

Fish
11-08-2010, 04:26 PM
figured thats what you would come up with.



bowe lets the ball get to his body too often. sorry if you dont see it.

You're a damn fool and conversing with you is like talking to a ADD-riddled 3rd grader.

First you ask what the hell his hand position had to do with it. I responded, asking if you'd played football, because if you had you'd realize that hand position is an important aspect of catching the ball. Then you respond saying "Well it doesn't matter he didn't get his hands on it." And then you actually ask, and I quote: "again look at the 2nd pic, how would he grip that ball?"

Well that's a good question Matlock.... how would he grip that ball? Isn't that kind of the point here? Isn't that relative to the discussion? The fact that you question how he would grip that ball should tell you it's a tough pass to catch in the position he was in.

doomy3
11-08-2010, 04:58 PM
You're a damn fool and conversing with you is like talking to a ADD-riddled 3rd grader.

First you ask what the hell his hand position had to do with it. I responded, asking if you'd played football, because if you had you'd realize that hand position is an important aspect of catching the ball. Then you respond saying "Well it doesn't matter he didn't get his hands on it." And then you actually ask, and I quote: "again look at the 2nd pic, how would he grip that ball?"

Well that's a good question Matlock.... how would he grip that ball? Isn't that kind of the point here? Isn't that relative to the discussion? The fact that you question how he would grip that ball should tell you it's a tough pass to catch in the position he was in.

Well, at least you're correct that there's a damn fool in this debate. Unfortunately for you, it's not who you think it is.

MeatRock
11-08-2010, 06:05 PM
Cassell is to blame for this loss more so than Bowe IMO. How many 3 and outs did the offense commit in the game because Matty Ice threw the ball 3 yards away from the receiver? Did you see those overthrow bombs down the field? How about when there was even the lightest of pressure he throws it in the dirt behind our own linemen?

Moeaki dropped a decent slant route for the first down that would have kept one of the only promising drives we had all day alive and no one is calling for his head. So Bowe dropped a pass, he also caught a damn TD in the game as well.

That 3 and out in OT was the worst ever. Let's just give the Raiders the ball at their 40 in OT and see if we can stop em. Same shit as the Buffalo game.

WilliamTheIrish
11-08-2010, 06:33 PM
No sense hating on Bowe. Yea, he carries a piece of the goat horns for this game, but he had lots of help.

And we are not about to surrender this division to the Raiders. Or the Bolts. It's still the Chiefs division to win.

stevieray
11-08-2010, 06:36 PM
Cassell is to blame for this loss more so than Bowe IMO. How many 3 and outs did the offense commit in the game because Matty Ice threw the ball 3 yards away from the receiver? Did you see those overthrow bombs down the field? How about when there was even the lightest of pressure he throws it in the dirt behind our own linemen?

Moeaki dropped a decent slant route for the first down that would have kept one of the only promising drives we had all day alive and no one is calling for his head. So Bowe dropped a pass, he also caught a damn TD in the game as well.

That 3 and out in OT was the worst ever. Let's just give the Raiders the ball at their 40 in OT and see if we can stop em. Same shit as the Buffalo game.
irrelevant..we were nursing the lead and that drop took that away..

MeatRock
11-08-2010, 06:40 PM
Hell i would even blame Thomas Jones more than i would Bowe for running like Larry Johnson out there. Jones never cut back into tight lanes, he just ran straight into the teeth of the Raider line every damn time.

I was so pissed off when Jones would run for a 1 or 2 yard gain, then Charles breaks off 5-7 yard gains when he carried the ball.

FAX
11-08-2010, 06:40 PM
I think this whole "we're young and trying to become a good team" deal is reaching the point of over-done-ness. Our guys are talented enough to compete with anybody. We don't need to be reminded how "young" we are and how much we have to "try" to become a good team. We need to get some swagger and start kicking some asses.

Haley needs to adjust his approach, in my opinion.

FAX

GloryDayz
11-08-2010, 06:42 PM
No sense hating on Bowe. Yea, he carries a piece of the goat horns for this game, but he had lots of help.

And we are not about to surrender this division to the Raiders. Or the Bolts. It's still the Chiefs division to win.

"Hate" is a strong word, and I don't hate him, I just choose to spit in his cereal and dirty-d*** his coffee cup!

MeatRock
11-08-2010, 06:45 PM
irrelevant..we were nursing the lead and that drop took that away..

So your telling me this team can't overcome one drop when we have the lead, but yet we can overcome a 2 for 16 or w/e 3rd down efficiency rating or 6 or more 3 and outs to win the game?

How is what happened during the game other than Bowe's drop irrelevant prior to that? 1 play never cost's a team the game. There were other plays to be made and we made hardly any throughout the whole game on offense.

MeatRock
11-08-2010, 06:47 PM
This 1 play ruined the game while we nurse a 3 point lead shit is bogus.

chiefzilla1501
11-08-2010, 06:49 PM
So your telling me this team can't overcome one drop when we have the lead, but yet we can overcome a 2 for 16 or w/e 3rd down efficiency rating or 6 or more 3 and outs to win the game?

How is what happened during the game other than Bowe's drop irrelevant prior to that? 1 play never cost's a team the game. There were other plays to be made and we made hardly any throughout the whole game on offense.

Because if you make a mistake early in the game, you have more than enough time to make up for lost time. Big Ben has thrown a million and a half INTs in his career. But in the 4th quarter, he doesn't miss.

It doesn't matter what you do early in the game. If you put the team in a position to win, then you have to make the plays to seal the win up late in the game.

stevieray
11-08-2010, 06:53 PM
So your telling me this team can't overcome one drop when we have the lead, but yet we can overcome a 2 for 16 or w/e 3rd down efficiency rating or 6 or more 3 and outs to win the game?

How is what happened during the game other than Bowe's drop irrelevant prior to that? 1 play never cost's a team the game. There were other plays to be made and we made hardly any throughout the whole game on offense.

I'm saying whatever happened prior to that play got us to where we were..IN THE LEAD, with a minute and change to go. That play converts, the game is over. The play didn't convert, and gave the fade an opportunity to take it to OT. Now you can say it was up to the defense at that point, but the fact remains, the last offensive chance to end the game in regulation was pissed away.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-08-2010, 06:53 PM
How did bowe cost us? That was not an easy catch.

How about weis, who would rather throw on 3rd and 1, Or run jones when jamaal is producing 3 times as much?

How about cassel who throws a 1 yard pass in overtime when we needed 3 to a velcroed pope when bowe is wide open?

How about flowers, who i personally love, who lets the game winning pick slip through his fingers?

Bowe is the last person id be bitching about.

Bowe wide open does not equal catch. That is the problem. Other than Moeaki, he has no one that he can really count on.

MeatRock
11-08-2010, 06:58 PM
Big Ben doesn't miss in the 4th quarter in close games huh? That's laughable and full of BS. While i agree that teams need to close games out in the 4th quarter, that does not mean holding on to a 3 point lead with 3 minutes left in the game.

It means you outscore and put the dagger in earlier so it does'nt come down to a one play make it or not scenario.

MeatRock
11-08-2010, 07:03 PM
I understand what your saying Stevieray, i just believe that if teams live off of 3 point leads in most games they will be disappointed when the season is over.

stevieray
11-08-2010, 07:04 PM
I understand what your saying Stevieray, i just believe that if teams live off of 3 point leads in most games they will be disappointed when the season is over.
who knows, they convert, they might've scored again.

MeatRock
11-08-2010, 07:09 PM
Yea and if Cassell does'nt throw an interception in the endzone we win the game.

FAX
11-08-2010, 07:13 PM
All other things being equal, the penalties were deadly.

It's interesting that we had so many. I wonder if those crazy damn officials decided that, if the Cha-Raiders were screwing up so much, they had to keep things more or less even in the flag department. It's very unusual for us to have that many penalties ... as you guys already know.

Meanwhile, Haley has told the media that there were a lot of "audibles" in that game. I have to wonder if Cassel was calling those 0 yard handoffs to TJ on third and 2. Apparently, this was a rare game that allowed Cassel so many audibles. I think it's safe to say that we don't want to do that no mo.

FAX

stevieray
11-08-2010, 07:16 PM
Yea and if Cassell does'nt throw an interception in the endzone we win the game.

tipped ball.

jbwm89
11-08-2010, 07:17 PM
I'm saying whatever happened prior to that play got us to where we were..IN THE LEAD, with a minute and change to go. That play converts, the game is over. The play didn't convert, and gave the fade an opportunity to take it to OT. Now you can say it was up to the defense at that point, but the fact remains, the last offensive chance to end the game in regulation was pissed away.

I am with you all the way stevieray. We OVERCAME those problems and Bowe didn't make a routine play to win the game, absolutely win it no matter what.

In the long run, obviously we need to do a lot of things better not just Bowe catch passes, but for sunday Bowe fucked up bad

MeatRock
11-08-2010, 07:18 PM
tipped ball.

True that, it was tipped. :mad:

Pitt Gorilla
11-08-2010, 07:28 PM
I'm saying whatever happened prior to that play got us to where we were..IN THE LEAD, with a minute and change to go. That play converts, the game is over. The play didn't convert, and gave the fade an opportunity to take it to OT. Now you can say it was up to the defense at that point, but the fact remains, the last offensive chance to end the game in regulation was pissed away.This. Good take, sr.

DeezNutz
11-08-2010, 07:32 PM
tipped ball.

On a shit throw because of terrible mechanics, but the TE tried to bail him out.

BossChief
11-08-2010, 07:41 PM
Right now, Dwayne Bowe is tied for third in the NFL amongst receivers in touchdown receptions.

He is first in the NFL by a wide margin in touchdowns per reception as well. He only has 26 receptions and 7 of them are for touchdowns.

He also has a 16.2 YPC which is phenomenal for a guy his size.

It sucks that he has the mental lapses, but to be honest a shitton of the better receivers in the league right now and in the past have possessed the same problem.

ChiefsCountry
11-08-2010, 07:43 PM
It sucks that he has the mental lapses, but to be honest a shitton of the better receivers in the league right now and in the past have possessed the same problem.

Andre Johnson dropped a huge ball yesterday against the Bolts late in the game.

DeezNutz
11-08-2010, 07:44 PM
Andre Johnson dropped a huge ball yesterday against the Bolts late in the game.

This really isn't an apt comparison because Johnson's past history in the league and natural gifts make Bowe look like a high school player.

It's like saying that Joe Montana threw a bad pass or two, so Cassel's are acceptable, too.

stevieray
11-08-2010, 07:45 PM
On a shit throw because of terrible mechanics, but the TE tried to bail him out.

:ZZZ:

DeezNutz
11-08-2010, 07:46 PM
:ZZZ:

If I walked into Cassel's basement, would any of the artwork on the walls remind me of a certain local artist?

BossChief
11-08-2010, 07:46 PM
Did Bowe drop a ball that would have clinched the win?

yes

Has Bowe been a HUGE reason we have been in/won most of the games this year?

yes

Pablo
11-08-2010, 07:50 PM
Right now, Dwayne Bowe is tied for third in the NFL amongst receivers in touchdown receptions.

He is first in the NFL by a wide margin in touchdowns per reception as well. He only has 26 receptions and 7 of them are for touchdowns.

He also has a 16.2 YPC which is phenomenal for a guy his size.

It sucks that he has the mental lapses, but to be honest a shitton of the better receivers in the league right now and in the past have possessed the same problem.Bowe is always going to face severe scrutiny while he's at KC. The same with Cassel.

It's been so long(decades) since we've had a legit #1 WR and a Franchise QB; that when a guy comes in and is touted as being the real deal we want to see excellence on the field. And given the fact that the Chiefs are playing, for the most part, disciplined and mistake-free football; whenever Bowe fucks up it is magnified 10x.

stevieray
11-08-2010, 07:51 PM
If I walked into Cassel's basement, would any of the artwork on the walls remind me of a certain local artist?

Nope, only worked for DJ (through a designer)...players are warned that people will solicit them, so I never go that route. Almost did a painting for Dante Hall, he called once, and was supposed to call back, but never did.

MeatRock
11-08-2010, 07:51 PM
The point is drops happen all the time in close games even to the best receivers in the game. We cannot allow a game to be decided by one drive. There were many other factors that contributed along with Bowe's drop to seal our fate.

If nobody noticed, Cassell did not back shoulder the throw to Bowe, he threw it to the inside and low so Bowe had to stop momentum and turn all the way around to make the catch. Was not as easy a catch as everyone claims.

Frankie
11-08-2010, 07:51 PM
Cassle played OK. Not every QB is going to nail every throw.

This fuggin BOWE is KILLING US!


But every WR catches every throw.
:rolleyes:

dirk digler
11-08-2010, 07:54 PM
Bowe is always going to face severe scrutiny while he's at KC. The same with Cassel.

It's been so long(decades) since we've had a legit #1 WR and a Franchise QB; that when a guy comes in and is touted as being the real deal we want to see excellence on the field. And given the fact that the Chiefs are playing, for the most part, disciplined and mistake-free football; whenever Bowe fucks up it is magnified 10x.

Bowe isn't a #1 WR and he dropped a ton of passes last year as well. He just isn't reliable

BossChief
11-08-2010, 07:55 PM
Bowe is always going to face severe scrutiny while he's at KC. The same with Cassel.

It's been so long(decades) since we've had a legit #1 WR and a Franchise QB; that when a guy comes in and is touted as being the real deal we want to see excellence on the field. And given the fact that the Chiefs are playing, for the most part, disciplined and mistake-free football; whenever Bowe fucks up it is magnified 10x.

this is true.

Its just a shame that some here are calling for his head and dont even realize how much he has contributed so far to this turnaround.

Good post.

DeezNutz
11-08-2010, 07:56 PM
Nope, only worked for DJ (through a designer)...players are warned that people will solicit them, so I never go that route. Almost did a painting for Dante Hall, he called once, and was supposed to call back, but never did.

I wasn't expecting a serious response. That's cool.

We often disagree about almost all things football, but you are a very talented artist.

BossChief
11-08-2010, 07:57 PM
Bowe isn't a #1 WR and he dropped a ton of passes last year as well. He just isn't reliable

He has a touchdown reception in each of the last 4 games and iirc has 3 drops this year.

I think he is growing into the #1 receiver role, but at this point isnt there yet. I think his ultimate role on a championship squad is as a great #2 receiver option.

MeatRock
11-08-2010, 08:01 PM
Bowe has shown flashes of being a #1 receiver this year. Take the catch and run in the Jax game. The problem is his consistency. And where the hell is our other receiver to help carry the load? Chambers sucks bawls.

Pablo
11-08-2010, 08:01 PM
this is true.

Its just a shame that some here are calling for his head and dont even realize how much he has contributed so far to this turnaround.

Good post.Yeah, he's made some plays. He's a veteran now. He's supposed to make TD grabs. He's supposed to block down-field. And he's supposed to be a leader and a role model for our younger guys. He isn't supposed to make our locker room front page news and Crisco his hands every quarter.

Unfortunately, he's still not living up to his 1st round billing. He's just lacking between the ears a bit. Hell, if he's going to drop gimmes, I'd just as soon watch Verran Tucker and Terrance Copper line up each week. At least we don't quite know what we have in them yet. Tucker made a pretty solid catch and contributed on Special Teams. He's probably just another scrub, but maybe he isn't.

DJ got it finally. It doesn't matter if you make spectacular plays if you whiff on the easy stuff regularly. He got his head right. Why the hell can't Bowe?

dirk digler
11-08-2010, 08:04 PM
He has a touchdown reception in each of the last 4 games and iirc has 3 drops this year.

I think he is growing into the #1 receiver role, but at this point isnt there yet. I think his ultimate role on a championship squad is as a great #2 receiver option.

He also dropped 2 potential game winning catches

stevieray
11-08-2010, 08:05 PM
Yeah, he's made some plays. He's a veteran now. He's supposed to make TD grabs. He's supposed to block down-field. And he's supposed to be a leader and a role model for our younger guys. He isn't supposed to make our locker room front page news and Crisco his hands every quarter.

Unfortunately, he's still not living up to his 1st round billing. He's just lacking between the ears a bit. Hell, if he's going to drop gimmes, I'd just as soon watch Verran Tucker and Terrance Copper line up each week. At least we don't quite know what we have in them yet. Tucker made a pretty solid catch and contributed on Special Teams. He's probably just another scrub, but maybe he isn't.

DJ got it finally. It doesn't matter if you make spectacular plays if you whiff on the easy stuff regularly. He got his head right. Why the hell can't Bowe?

nice post. when he makes the clutch catches when the game is potentially on the line is when he's made the step to the next level. I still have hope he can, despite the inconsistancy when the pressure is on.

FAX
11-08-2010, 08:06 PM
Yeah, he's made some plays. He's a veteran now. He's supposed to make TD grabs. He's supposed to block down-field. And he's supposed to be a leader and a role model for our younger guys. He isn't supposed to make our locker room front page news and Crisco his hands every quarter.

Unfortunately, he's still not living up to his 1st round billing. He's just lacking between the ears a bit. Hell, if he's going to drop gimmes, I'd just as soon watch Verran Tucker and Terrance Copper line up each week. At least we don't quite know what we have in them yet. Tucker made a pretty solid catch and contributed on Special Teams. He's probably just another scrub, but maybe he isn't.

DJ got it finally. It doesn't matter if you make spectacular plays if you whiff on the easy stuff regularly. He got his head right. Why the hell can't Bowe?

I don't think Bowe is the crispiest chip in the bag, Mr. PostRockPablo.

I think he has concentration issues, maybe. He could probably use some Ritalin.

FAX

stevieray
11-08-2010, 08:06 PM
I wasn't expecting a serious response. That's cool.

We often disagree about almost all things football, but you are a very talented artist.

that's cool, man.

thanks.