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jjchieffan
11-12-2010, 12:10 PM
ROFLROFL

Trading with Broncos turning into game of 'Let's make a steal'
By Elliot Harrison Special to NFL.com

When Browns running back Peyton Hillis hurdled Patriots safety James Sanders on Sunday, it seemed as if for a second he was leaping over all the backs on the Broncos roster. Every thought bubble at Cleveland Browns Stadium must have said, "Thank you, Josh McDaniels."

A lot of people have been silently thanking McDaniels lately. The Hillis trade last March is just one of several moves that worked out better for everyone besides the Broncos. While any GM/head coach can bungle a trade now and then, several of McDaniels' moves just haven't panned. Rather than grill him in this space, it would be more appropriate to ask the simple question: What's Denver's plan?

In order to answer that, we have to review some of the wheelings and dealings of the head coach/de facto co-GM (with Brian Xanders).

Traded Hillis to Cleveland for Brady Quinn, a sixth-round pick in 2011, and a conditional pick in 2012. Need there be any more words to describe this trade, other than that Hillis has more rushing yards this season than the entire Broncos' stable of backs? McDaniels kept using Knowshon Moreno in short-yardage last season in lieu of the bruiser Hillis, with negative results. It smacked a little of "playing my guy" instead of "my predecessor's guy." Now Hillis is running over everyone's guy in Ohio.


Tony Dejak / Associated Press
Peyton Hillis rushed for 184 yards and has two touchdowns against the Patriots in Week 9.
Notable Broncos trades in Josh McDaniels era
Date Team Traded Received
4/1/2009 Bears QB Jay Cutler, 2009 5th-rounder QB Kyle Orton, first-rounders in 2009 and 2010, 2009 third-round pick
4/14/2009 Dolphins WR Brandon Marshall 2010 and 2011 second-round picks
3/14/2010 Browns RB Peyton Hillis, 2011 6th-rounder, conditional 2012 pick QB Brady Quinn
9/4/2010 Lions CB Alphonso Smith TE Dan Gronkowski
Traded their 2010 first-round pick to get cornerback Alphonso Smith in the second round of the 2009 draft. After only one year, Denver traded Smith to Lions for tight end Dan Gronkowski. Smith has almost as many interceptions (five) as Gronkowski has receptions (six) this season. Smith has more touchdowns than Gronkowski as well (1-0).

Traded Brandon Marshall to the Dolphins for two second-round picks. While the Broncos' passing game has no doubt thrived without No. 19, is there anyone on the roster that could make a play to win a game like Marshall's catch-and-run vs. the Cowboys last year? In fairness to the Broncos, they were not likely going to be able to re-sign the petulant receiver after the 2010 season when his contract in Denver was set to expire.

Traded quarterback Jay Cutler to the Bears. McDaniels whisked two first-round picks, Kyle Orton, as well as a third, for Cutler and a fifth-rounder 18 months ago. From the highway it looks like a heckuva deal with Denver getting a king's ransom of picks as well as Orton's big stats this year. But from the campsite, you begin to see some dead trees, starting with the fact that Orton's 2010 numbers are Enron-esque. No one cares if you put up 300-yard games if you lose two out of every three games like the Broncos have this season. While Orton has played well, McDaniels has already made it clear he's not the future by drafting Tim Tebow. The first-round picks in the Cutler trade eventually became Robert Ayers, a linebacker with promise, as well as Demaryius Thomas, who could eventually be a good receiver if he can stay healthy.

(Interesting sidebar to the Cutler deal: The only Pro Bowl player involved in the trade was Johnny Knox. who was acquired by the Bears with the fifth-round pick and went on to make the Pro Bowl as a kick returner.)

Compiling draft picks is nice; it helps build for the future. Problem is, so many people felt the future was already there in Denver.

Cutler is 27, Marshall 26, Smith 25. Hillis seems like he's been around forever, but he's only 24. While the Broncos had what appeared to be solid drafts in 2009 and 2010, none of the players taken are of Hillis' or Marshall's ilk -- at least not yet.

So what's the deal? Apparently they weren't McDaniels' guys, and he felt he could channel his old boss in New England and stockpile picks. Hey, it worked, sort of. While Denver bagged a bunch of early-round picks, it doesn't do good to draft young talent if they're not playing.

Knowshon Moreno, a first-rounder in 2009, has missed too much time this season with injuries. Even when he has played, he's averaged just 3 yards a crack. Thomas was inactive for the opener, has been on the injury report a couple of times, and has started just one game.

While the injuries aren't McDaniels' fault, he must be held accountable for dealing a wideout that caught more than 100 balls each of the last three seasons and a running back that's outrushed his entire team.

Then there's Tebow. Denver is 2-6 and last in the AFC West, and Orton is not considered the future. McDaniels might as well play him. Even if the offense and blitz schemes are a little much for Tebow to grasp, he can still play.


The former Florida standout is different from Aaron Rodgers and Philip Rivers, both of whom sat on the bench early in their careers, because he can play out of a wildcat set. He's a great athlete that could definitely use some reps in real games and witness NFL game speed. That's one big part of the learning curve for young quarterbacks, and Tebow could benefit from the experience without hurting his team. And yet, McDaniels has rarely dialed Tebow's number in their "Wild Horse" set.

Having arguably the greatest college football player ever rot on the bench is a head-scratcher. That said, not everything McDaniels has done has gone awry.

Free-agent acquisitions Jamal Williams and Kevin Vickerson have done a decent job on the defensive line. Several of McDaniels' draft picks look to be okay -- Ayers, cornerback Perrish Cox, and center J.D. Walton, to name a few. But the reality is the team on the field in Mile High is not as talented as the guys traded away. And the guys traded away were in their prime.

So was Mike Nolan, who despite transforming the Broncos' defense from the NFL's 26th-ranked unit in 2008 to seventh overall in 2009, was allowed to leave for Miami to coordinate the Dolphins' defense. Whatever the circumstances were surrounding the end of that relationship, McDaniels must take some responsibility for a very talented defensive coach exiting the building when the Broncos defense has struggled like it has (currently 23rd in the NFL). Nolan, meanwhile, has improved Miami from 22nd overall defensively to 13th.

While new defensive coordinator Don Martindale doesn't have injured pass rusher Elvis Dumervil at his disposal, the club hasn't done a strong job of drafting building blocks to fit its 3-4 system, one more small indication that the plan, not necessarily McDaniels the coach, is in question.

Make no mistake, McDaniels the coach has struggled. The Broncos have lost 14 of their last 18 games after getting off to a 6-0 start under McDaniels. That would be easier to swallow for Broncos fans if a plan was apparent. While all the results certainly aren't in, the ones that are don't look so good. Some of the many draft picks could end up panning out, but the question is whether McDaniels will be around to bear the fruit.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81c0c858/article/trading-with-broncos-turning-into-game-of-lets-make-a-steal?module=HP_cp2

Didn't see it on the front page or page 2 so piss off if repost.

Mile High Mania
11-12-2010, 01:39 PM
The Hillis and Smith deals are by far bonehead moves... the jury is out on the others, but I wouldn't say the Broncos lost yet on what they received for Cutler/Marshall.

McDaniels is still an idiot though and he needs to be the next former Head Coach of the Denver Broncos.

BigMeatballDave
11-12-2010, 01:43 PM
It would appear McDumbass was wise to trade Cutler. However, if Shanny was still his coach, he would've improved.

Cave Johnson
11-12-2010, 02:04 PM
Had no idea Smith was playing well for Detroit. That's the best series of trades ever.

Agent V
11-12-2010, 02:24 PM
The Hillis and Smith deals are by far bonehead moves... the jury is out on the others, but I wouldn't say the Broncos lost yet on what they received for Cutler/Marshall.

McDaniels is still an idiot though and he needs to be the next former Head Coach of the Denver Broncos.

Agreed on both points. And if the Cutler/Marshall trades actually don't turn out, it's pretty undeniable proof that he's an awful GM.

Pitt Gorilla
11-12-2010, 02:30 PM
McDaniels dismantled a pretty strong team.

teedubya
11-12-2010, 02:34 PM
I didn't read a mention of Tony Scheffler... was he omitted?

jd1020
11-12-2010, 02:38 PM
Agreed on both points. And if the Cutler/Marshall trades actually don't turn out, it's pretty undeniable proof that he's an awful GM.

I already think the Cutler trade was a brilliant trade for the Broncos. Orton has been 100x better than Cutler. If you looked up the definition of insane in the dictionary you would see a box score of the Bears vs Redskins with the Cutler quote in caption "If we played him tomorrow I would still throw at him."

FD
11-12-2010, 02:49 PM
The Alphonso Smith saga is pretty much the funniest thing ever.

Mile High Mania
11-12-2010, 02:54 PM
I didn't read a mention of Tony Scheffler... was he omitted?

No, he really didn't do much in Denver ... hasn't done much in DET. Injuries.

Fritz88
11-12-2010, 02:54 PM
Love it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mile High Mania
11-12-2010, 02:59 PM
The Alphonso Smith saga is pretty much the funniest thing ever.

So, in 2009 - they give up their 2010 R1 for Smith.

Seahawks take Okung (OT) with that R1 pick. Denver trades Smith for Grownkowski.

So, Denver essentially traded Okung (OT which they could really need) for Smith (CB that they really needed) for a spare freaking TE.

Fritz88
11-12-2010, 03:03 PM
So, in 2009 - they give up their 2010 R1 for Smith.

Seahawks take Okung (OT) with that R1 pick. Denver trades Smith for Grownkowski.

So, Denver essentially traded Okung (OT which they could really need) for Smith (CB that they really needed) for a spare freaking TE.

Josh Mc. is really proving that he's an arrogant douche.

Mile High Mania
11-12-2010, 03:07 PM
Josh Mc. is really proving that he's an arrogant douche.

It's like he's approaching as fantasy football with real players... and he's the jackass that all the other owners want to target in trades.

jjchieffan
11-12-2010, 03:11 PM
Can't forget how he traded up into the first round for Tebow, who would have fallen to the third round.

easymobee
11-12-2010, 03:17 PM
don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house .....

Joe Horn ....

Trezelle Jenkins .....

Rich Gannon ......

2nd rounder and a bazillion dollars for Cassel

4th rounder for Herm Edwards .....

Bernard Pollard cut .....

The list stretches out pretty long. Im pretty sure the legacy of Todd Blackledge will outlive the legacy of Alphonso Smith or Peyton Hillis.

Just remember Chorf fans. Every time Cassell takes a snap from center he makes enough money to pay your mortgage for 6 to 10 months depending on where you live.

I root for Hillis and i have him on FF, but lets not proclaim his Csonka vers. 2 yet.

I seem to remember Cadillac Williams, Roosevelt Potts, and A Train captivating the NFLs imagination at other times for parts or even a full season. Those 3 RBs were from the top of my head, more than any other positions there are a lot of flash in the pans at RB.


J

Cave Johnson
11-12-2010, 03:28 PM
So, in 2009 - they give up their 2010 R1 for Smith.

Seahawks take Okung (OT) with that R1 pick. Denver trades Smith for Grownkowski.

So, Denver essentially traded Okung (OT which they could really need) for Smith (CB that they really needed) for a spare freaking TE.

Earl Thomas, not Okung, yo.

Ugly Duck
11-12-2010, 03:29 PM
This article is pure bunk. McDaniels is the best coach in the history of the NFL. Denver has the best players at every position on offense, defense & special teams. All of our assistant coaches are better than anyone has. Our owner is the best and so is our stadium. - KnowMo

Mile High Mania
11-12-2010, 04:25 PM
Can't forget how he traded up into the first round for Tebow, who would have fallen to the third round.

Possibly... still don't like the trade. Sure, anything can happen and he could turn out to be a great QB, but it won't be anytime soon. What might have been with that pick...

Jahvid Best, maybe?

As I look back, I see them with Decker in R3... how nice would Mike Williams be in Denver - you know, the 4th rounder. I think he could wind up being one of the best picks in that draft.

kysirsoze
11-12-2010, 04:58 PM
don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house .....

Joe Horn ....

Trezelle Jenkins .....

Rich Gannon ......

2nd rounder and a bazillion dollars for Cassel

4th rounder for Herm Edwards .....

Bernard Pollard cut .....

The list stretches out pretty long. Im pretty sure the legacy of Todd Blackledge will outlive the legacy of Alphonso Smith or Peyton Hillis.

Just remember Chorf fans. Every time Cassell takes a snap from center he makes enough money to pay your mortgage for 6 to 10 months depending on where you live.

I root for Hillis and i have him on FF, but lets not proclaim his Csonka vers. 2 yet.

I seem to remember Cadillac Williams, Roosevelt Potts, and A Train captivating the NFLs imagination at other times for parts or even a full season. Those 3 RBs were from the top of my head, more than any other positions there are a lot of flash in the pans at RB.


J

We're talking about one regime in Denver and you bring up the whole history of boneheaded moves for the Chiefs.

What?

Not to mention I'm still glad we cut Pollard.

thurman merman
11-13-2010, 12:40 AM
Uh...Jay Cutler sucks.

jAZ
11-13-2010, 08:41 AM
We're talking about one regime in Denver and you bring up the whole history of boneheaded moves for the Chiefs.

What?
McDaniels is THAT bad.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-13-2010, 09:18 AM
don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house .....

Joe Horn ....

Trezelle Jenkins .....

Rich Gannon ......

2nd rounder and a bazillion dollars for Cassel

4th rounder for Herm Edwards .....

Bernard Pollard cut .....

The list stretches out pretty long. Im pretty sure the legacy of Todd Blackledge will outlive the legacy of Alphonso Smith or Peyton Hillis.

Just remember Chorf fans. Every time Cassell takes a snap from center he makes enough money to pay your mortgage for 6 to 10 months depending on where you live.

I root for Hillis and i have him on FF, but lets not proclaim his Csonka vers. 2 yet.

I seem to remember Cadillac Williams, Roosevelt Potts, and A Train captivating the NFLs imagination at other times for parts or even a full season. Those 3 RBs were from the top of my head, more than any other positions there are a lot of flash in the pans at RB.


J

Two moves here that you mention are under Pioli. Bernard Pollard Cut- Yes, absolutely. Chiefs would be better with him here, but they have pretty good young safeties. If Romeo were coach last year, I doubt he would be gone. He didn't respect Clancy and was shown the door because he talked back.

Matt Cassel- First, you do realize that McDaniels was willing to give up a first, the Chiefs just were on the ball. Second, they got Matt Cassel AND Vrabel in the deal. Third, WE don't pay Cassel's salary.


Oh, and here is the thing.... the Chiefs, are 5-3 this year. They are in the second year and improving. Pioli and Haley took over a team that needed a lot of work, and were 2-14.

McDaniels took over an 8-8 team with franchise players at QB, WR, and, appparently RB (Hillis). He started at 6-0 off of the remnants of Mike Shanahan's coaching... and has traded, coached and built his way to 2-6 this season.

Forgive us for feeling fortunate.

the Talking Can
11-13-2010, 09:34 AM
Pollard is a flaming piece of shit, one of the best things pioli did was cut his ass...

Dave Lane
11-13-2010, 09:58 AM
We're talking about one regime in Denver and you bring up the whole history of boneheaded moves for the Chiefs.

What?

Not to mention I'm still glad we cut Pollard.

Plus the donks and Mckid have accomplished all that in 1.5 seasons. Now that's impressive.

Chiefless
11-13-2010, 10:21 AM
The Cutler deal was a steal, especially since they alienated him and his fragile ego by trying to out bid the Chiefs for Cassel. Two firsts AND at least the second-best QB of the three is a pretty good haul.

Buehler445
11-13-2010, 10:23 AM
Two moves here that you mention are under Pioli. Bernard Pollard Cut- Yes, absolutely. Chiefs would be better with him here, but they have pretty good young safeties. If Romeo were coach last year, I doubt he would be gone. He didn't respect Clancy and was shown the door because he talked back.

Matt Cassel- First, you do realize that McDaniels was willing to give up a first, the Chiefs just were on the ball. Second, they got Matt Cassel AND Vrabel in the deal. Third, WE don't pay Cassel's salary.


Oh, and here is the thing.... the Chiefs, are 5-3 this year. They are in the second year and improving. Pioli and Haley took over a team that needed a lot of work, and were 2-14 and completely devoid of playmakers. Then traded an aging vet, who was our best and most consistent playmaker. We had NOTHING at the start of last year. Nothing..

McDaniels took over an 8-8 team with franchise players at QB, WR, and, appparently RB (Hillis). He started at 6-0 off of the remnants of Mike Shanahan's coaching... and has traded, coached and built his way to 2-6 this season.

Forgive us for feeling fortunate.

Fixed.

Rausch
11-13-2010, 10:24 AM
Dude trade a white HB.

You can't really fault him there...

Rausch
11-13-2010, 10:32 AM
Two moves here that you mention are under Pioli. Bernard Pollard Cut- Yes, absolutely. Chiefs would be better with him here, but they have pretty good young safeties.

I disagree.

Even with 2 rookies holding down the fort at safety we've given up FEWER plays over 30 yards at this point than last year.

And these guys are only rookies.


Matt Cassel- First, you do realize that McDaniels was willing to give up a first, the Chiefs just were on the ball. Second, they got Matt Cassel AND Vrabel in the deal. Third, WE don't pay Cassel's salary.

How the **** do you figure that?...

Oh, and here is the thing.... the Chiefs, are 5-3 this year. They are in the second year and improving. Pioli and Haley took over a team that needed a lot of work, and were 2-14.

This does not get mentioned enough. The turnaround is huge. Ascending free agents wanted to get the **** out of KC when Carl was here and now they're all about staying on.

There is a pervasive feeling that SOMETHING is being built here.

McDaniels took over...

Don't care.

There are only three things that matter in the NFL:

1) Achievement
2) Record
3) Performance

In that order...

KChiefs1
11-14-2010, 09:54 AM
Oh, and here is the thing.... the Chiefs, are 5-3 this year. They are in the second year and improving. Pioli and Haley took over a team that needed a lot of work, and were 2-14.

McDaniels took over an 8-8 team with franchise players at QB, WR, and, appparently RB (Hillis). He started at 6-0 off of the remnants of Mike Shanahan's coaching... and has traded, coached and built his way to 2-6 this season.

Forgive us for feeling fortunate.

yeah it's work out pretty well so far...:clap: