PDA

View Full Version : Science Scientists propose one-way trips to Mars


Lzen
11-15-2010, 02:07 PM
NICHOLAS K. GERANIOS
Associated Press

PULLMAN, Wash. It's always cheaper to fly one way, even to Mars. Two scientists are suggesting that colonization of the red planet could happen faster and more economically if astronauts behaved like the first settlers to come to North America not expecting to go home.


"The main point is to get Mars exploration moving," said Dirk Schulze-Makuch, a Washington State University professor who co-authored an article that seriously proposes what sounds like a preposterous idea.
At least one moon-walking astronaut was not impressed.


"This is premature," Ed Mitchell of Apollo 14 wrote in an e-mail. "We aren't ready for this yet."


Also cool to the idea was NASA. President Barack Obama has already outlined a plan to go to Mars by the mid-2030s. But he never suggested these space travelers wouldn't come home.


"We want our people back," NASA spokesman Michael Braukus said.
The article titled "To Boldly Go" appears in the latest issue of the Journal of Cosmology, which featured more than 50 articles and essays on Mars exploration.


Schulze-Makuch and Paul Davies, a physicist at Arizona State University, argue that humans must begin colonizing another planet as a hedge against a catastrophe on Earth. They believe the one-way trips could start in two decades.

"You would send a little bit older folks, around 60 or something like that," Schulze-Makuch said, bringing to mind the aging heroes who saved the day in the movie "Space Cowboys."


That's because the mission would undoubtedly reduce a person's lifespan, from a lack of medical care and exposure to radiation. Radiation could also damage reproductive organs, so sending people of childbearing age is not a good idea, Schulze-Makuch said.


Mars is a six-month flight away, possesses surface gravity, an atmosphere, abundant water, carbon dioxide and essential minerals. The two scientists propose the missions begin with two two-person teams, in separate ships that would serve as living quarters on the planet. More colonists and regular supply ships would follow.


The technology already exists, or is within easy reach, they wrote. By not taking the extra fuel and provisions necessary for a return trip to Earth, the mission could cut costs by 80 percent.


Davies and Schulze-Makuch say it's important to realize they're not proposing a "suicide mission."


"The astronauts would go to Mars with the intention of staying for the rest of their lives, as trailblazers of a permanent human Mars colony," they wrote.


They acknowledge the proposal is a tough sell for NASA, with its focus on safety, and suggest the private sector might be more fertile ground.
"What we would need is an eccentric billionaire," Schulze-Makuch said. "There are people who have the money to put this into reality."

Indeed, British tycoon Richard Branson, PayPal founder Elon Musk and Amazon.com Inc. CEO Jeff Bezos are among the rich who are already involved in private space ventures.


Isolated humans in space have long been a staple of science fiction movies, from "Robinson Crusoe on Mars" and "2001: A Space Odyssey" to a flurry of recent movies such as "Solaris" and "Moon." In many of the plots, lonely astronauts fall victim to computers, madness or aliens.
Psychological profiling and training of the astronauts, plus constant communication with Earth, would reduce debilitating mental strains, the two scientists said.


"They would in fact feel more connected to home than the early Antarctic explorers," they write in their article.


The mental health of humans in space has been extensively studied. Depression can set in, people become irritated with each other, and sleep can be disrupted, studies have found. The knowledge that there is no quick return to Earth would likely make that worse.


Davies' research focuses on cosmology, quantum field theory and astrobiology. He was an early proponent of the theory that life on Earth may have come from Mars in rocks ejected by asteroid and comet impacts.
Schulze-Makuch is the author of two books about life on other planets. His focus is eco-hydrogeology, which includes the study of water on planets and moons of our solar system and how those could serve as a potential habitat for microbial life.


Both men contend that Mars has abundant resources to help the colonists become self-sufficient over time. They write that the colony should be next to a large ice cave, to provide shelter from radiation, plus water and oxygen.

Despite the lack of enthusiasm from NASA, Schulze-Makuch believes many people would be willing to make the sacrifice.
He and Davies believe a Mars base would offer humanity a "lifeboat" if Earth became uninhabitable.


"We are on a vulnerable planet," Schulze-Makuch said. "Asteroid impact can threaten us, or a supernova explosion. If we want to survive as a species, we have to expand into the solar system and likely beyond."

Online:
http://journalofcosmology.com/Mars108.html
Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

jd1020
11-15-2010, 02:08 PM
Has Matt Cassel ordered his tickets yet?

Dayze
11-15-2010, 02:08 PM
Does Cassel have any availability?

Bane
11-15-2010, 02:08 PM
Casshole can drive.
Posted via Mobile Device

Dayze
11-15-2010, 02:08 PM
Has Matt Cassel ordered his tickets yet?

:cuss::cuss:
:D

Lzen
11-15-2010, 02:09 PM
Very cool stuff. I am intrigued. Its been awhile since I read it, but this reminds me of a book (trilogy, actually).

Bwana
11-15-2010, 02:10 PM
Can we start out by loading it with troll Raiders fans, from this board?

Count Zarth
11-15-2010, 02:10 PM
Just send some fucking robots.

Lzen
11-15-2010, 02:11 PM
Just send some ****ing robots.

Been there, done that.

gblowfish
11-15-2010, 02:13 PM
Strap Al Davis to the nose cone....start the countdown!

DMAC
11-15-2010, 02:13 PM
So it's Adam & Eve all over again.

Old Dog
11-15-2010, 02:17 PM
Hell, I'll do it. Already making plans to start my own NFL where the Chiefs can win a Super Bowl more than once every 40 years

suds79
11-15-2010, 02:18 PM
Somewhere out there somebody is already pitching

"I have some prime spacious red land to sell you."

chiefsnorth
11-15-2010, 02:27 PM
Johnnycabs and three-breasted hookers, here I come!

Sofa King
11-15-2010, 02:32 PM
lol. 3 cassel replies in a row during the same minute!

i love this board when it works properly.

ForeverChiefs58
11-15-2010, 02:40 PM
Here is a picture of Cassel seeing any kind of a pass rush
http://www.moviecatcher.net/images/schwarzenegger-in-total-recall1.jpg

Rain Man
11-15-2010, 02:47 PM
For 98 percent of Earth's population, it would be a step up in quality of life.

Brock
11-15-2010, 02:57 PM
Unfortunately, most people have already seen pictures of the place.

Fritz88
11-15-2010, 02:58 PM
Send Cassel

Ugly Duck
11-15-2010, 09:30 PM
Can we start out by loading it with troll Raiders fans, from this board?

I'll go... sign me up! I'm not 60, but it sure sounds like a rousing adventure!

SNR
11-15-2010, 09:53 PM
"We are on a vulnerable planet," Schulze-Makuch said. "Asteroid impact can threaten us, or a supernova explosion. If we want to survive as a species, we have to expand into the solar system and likely beyond."This part confuses me. We should survive as a species by living on planets that support an atmosphere more prone to asteroid hits?

Lzen
11-15-2010, 10:06 PM
This part confuses me. We should survive as a species by living on planets that support an atmosphere more prone to asteroid hits?

How do you figure Mars is more prone to asteroid hits? :spock:

I think the idea is to spread the human race to multiple worlds in order to increase our chances at survival.

Now if the sun were to go supernova, pretty much the whole solar system is fucked. But that's not supposed to happen for another 4 or 5 billion years. So, I think we may have time to work out a plan by them.

teedubya
11-15-2010, 10:08 PM
Would I be able to get Direct TV?

SNR
11-15-2010, 10:14 PM
How do you figure Mars is more prone to asteroid hits? :spock:

I think the idea is to spread the human race to multiple worlds in order to increase our chances at survival.

Now if the sun were to go supernova, pretty much the whole solar system is fucked. But that's not supposed to happen for another 4 or 5 billion years. So, I think we may have time to work out a plan by them.Weak atmosphere.

Brock
11-15-2010, 10:15 PM
I think the idea is to spread the human race to multiple worlds in order to increase our chances at survival.

Sorry man, there's nowhere to go.

Rain Man
11-15-2010, 10:19 PM
I wonder if my wife would go for this. Pretty sure I could talk our cat into it, but not sure about the wife.

Lzen
11-15-2010, 10:20 PM
Sorry man, there's nowhere to go.

I didn't say I agree with that reasoning. I just think it would be awesome to have humans exploring other worlds in our solar system. Gotta start somewhere.

Bill Parcells
11-15-2010, 10:21 PM
This part confuses me. We should survive as a species by living on planets that support an atmosphere more prone to asteroid hits?

Nobody can pull a fast one on the professor

Lzen
11-15-2010, 10:21 PM
Weak atmosphere.

If you're talking meteorites perhaps. They were referring to asteroids. A small one (say a half mile wide) could do some pretty serious devastation to this planet.

SNR
11-15-2010, 10:24 PM
If you're talking meteorites perhaps. They were referring to asteroids. A small one (say a half mile wide) could do some pretty serious devastation to this planet.A lot of those meteorites that we experience on earth would be a lot bigger and more destructive on Mars

Bugeater
11-15-2010, 10:29 PM
Boys go to Mars to get candy bars. Girls go to Jupiter to get stupider.

alnorth
11-15-2010, 10:38 PM
This is actually pretty cool.

I've also always been a bit irritated at NASA's obsession with safety. I understand why they do it, when that high-profile space shuttle blew up in the 80's, they were sidelined and not allowed to do much for years. I just dont understand why we create this environment of "we want you to do something extraordinarily important, cool, and dangerous, but if something goes wrong we will beat you severely". Astronauts in the early days were half-expected to die in the attempt. Safety comes with experience, someone has to be the crash test dummy. I dont expect us to willy-nilly take stupid risks, but we shouldn't be so afraid of failure with NASA.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-15-2010, 10:42 PM
Get ya ass to Mahz.

DaFace
11-15-2010, 10:51 PM
Huh. Intriguing.

Count Zarth
11-15-2010, 10:57 PM
Get ya ass to Mahz.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/trya1ETd9Hs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/trya1ETd9Hs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Chiefs Rool
11-15-2010, 11:21 PM
I'll do it!

jd1020
11-15-2010, 11:27 PM
I'll do it!

I'd do it after Jessica Alba signed up. Then she and I can populate Mars.

Hydrae
11-16-2010, 06:22 AM
Sending the old folks up could save Social Security!

The Pedestrian
11-16-2010, 09:02 AM
So it's Adam & Eve all over again.

It's how we got off Venus...

The Pedestrian
11-16-2010, 09:04 AM
Now seriously, if they're emphasizing how "this is not a suicide mission", then why are we sending people who already have one foot in the grave?

blaise
11-16-2010, 09:10 AM
They should sell corporate sponsorship and let McDonalds and Coke have giant billboards posted on Mars.

The Pedestrian
11-16-2010, 09:17 AM
They should sell corporate sponsorship and let McDonalds and Coke have giant billboards posted on Mars.

Coke can just write its name on Mars. It would look brilliant!

Lzen
11-16-2010, 10:06 AM
Now seriously, if they're emphasizing how "this is not a suicide mission", then why are we sending people who already have one foot in the grave?

Reading is good.

3.3. The first colonists Crew selection for the initial manned mission would have to take into account several factors. Initially, colonists may be preferred who are beyond their reproductive age, because their life expectancy is likely to be 20 years or less, and secondly, the first settlers will endure some radiation damage to their reproductive organs, both during the trip to Mars and on the Martian surface.

Lzen
11-16-2010, 10:08 AM
.It is important to realize that this is not a "suicide mission." The astronauts would go to Mars with the intention of staying for the rest of their lives, as trailblazers of a permanent human Mars colony. They would be resupplied periodically from Earth, and eventually develop some "home grown" industry such as food production and mineral/chemical processing (Zubrin and Baker 1992; Zubrin and Wagner 1997). Their role would be to establish a "base camp" to which more colonists would eventually be sent, and to carry out important scientific and technological projects meanwhile. Of course, the life expectancy of the astronauts would be substantially reduced, but that would also be the case for a return mission. The riskiest part of space exploration is take-off and landing, followed by the exposure to space conditions. Both risk factors would be halved in a one-way mission, and traded for the rigors of life in a cramped and hostile environment away from sophisticated medical equipment. On the financial front, abandoning the need to send the fuel and supplies for the return journey would cut costs dramatically, arguably by about 80 percent. Furthermore, once a Mars base has been established, it would be politically much easier to find the funding for sustaining it over the long term than to mount a hugely expensive return mission.

allen_kcCard
11-16-2010, 10:34 AM
This would definately be a reality show I could get into. Survivor Mars FTW.

Count Zarth
11-16-2010, 03:45 PM
Can't they wear lead lined undies to protect their junk from radiation?

Zebedee DuBois
11-16-2010, 03:53 PM
Can't they wear lead lined undies to protect their junk from radiation?

Those are NOT comfortable. You won't see Hanes and Jordon promoting them.

The Pedestrian
11-16-2010, 05:24 PM
Reading is good.

Uh...yeah...leaving without hope of coming back AND saying "you'll never be able to reproduce again if you do go" is essentially a suicide mission. Or exile to another planet for the rest of your life. Whatever sells tickets.

bevischief
11-16-2010, 06:21 PM
How many are Chiefs players as volunteers?

Lzen
11-16-2010, 07:37 PM
Uh...yeah...leaving without hope of coming back AND saying "you'll never be able to reproduce again if you do go" is essentially a suicide mission. Or exile to another planet for the rest of your life. Whatever sells tickets.

That still does not make it a suicide mission. Sure the radiation will probably reduce their lifespan, but it isn't like they're dead right away. They will live out their remaining lives. And did you read the part about this being a volunteer thing? I'll bet there will be plenty of volunteers, as crazy as that sounds.

CoMoChief
11-16-2010, 08:24 PM
Is Ditka driving?

The Pedestrian
11-17-2010, 01:30 AM
That still does not make it a suicide mission. Sure the radiation will probably reduce their lifespan, but it isn't like they're dead right away. They will live out their remaining lives. And did you read the part about this being a volunteer thing? I'll bet there will be plenty of volunteers, as crazy as that sounds.

Put up a flyer for anything and you'll have plenty of volunteers...especially if it's for something that satisfies the tiny--or large--narcissistic person in all of us. And yeah, being one of the first people on Mars is perfect for that regardless of how realistic or irrational the idea is of believing anyone will remember.
But anyway, while I see the point you're making, it still looks like a suicide mission for at least the first crew that goes out there. For instance, they're saying we should be aggressive and just go for it the way settlers did in North America...that reminds me of Roanoke, the first British settlement. The founder had returned to England for additional people and supplies to find it completely abandoned when he returned, and nobody ever found out why the original settlers disappeared other than a cryptic word "Croatoan" carved into a plank. Of course, we only hear about Jamestown and Plymoth Rock because those were successful attempts. Many times, the initial exploration party is a suicide mission to determine what mistakes were made and how the second (or third) time can be near-perfect.

ForeverChiefs58
11-17-2010, 08:04 AM
This would definately be a reality show I could get into. Survivor Mars FTW.

Reality tv could be a great way to pay for it with the winner (or family of winner) getting a million dollars or something like that. Ratings would be huge all over the world.
"This was brought to you by Mars candy bars. it's not just a candy bar, it's a mission."

Lzen
11-17-2010, 08:22 AM
Put up a flyer for anything and you'll have plenty of volunteers...especially if it's for something that satisfies the tiny--or large--narcissistic person in all of us. And yeah, being one of the first people on Mars is perfect for that regardless of how realistic or irrational the idea is of believing anyone will remember.
But anyway, while I see the point you're making, it still looks like a suicide mission for at least the first crew that goes out there. For instance, they're saying we should be aggressive and just go for it the way settlers did in North America...that reminds me of Roanoke, the first British settlement. The founder had returned to England for additional people and supplies to find it completely abandoned when he returned, and nobody ever found out why the original settlers disappeared other than a cryptic word "Croatoan" carved into a plank. Of course, we only hear about Jamestown and Plymoth Rock because those were successful attempts. Many times, the initial exploration party is a suicide mission to determine what mistakes were made and how the second (or third) time can be near-perfect.

Sure, but you have to remember that we have already sent the first exploration parties in the form of robots. There has also been a ton learned from the international space station. I'm not saying there won't be problems. I'm just saying that they should have something like this planned as well as could possibly be expected in order to succeed.

ForeverChiefs58
11-17-2010, 09:43 AM
They need to get like 20 beautiful model athletes and 1 guy, ok he can bring 1 best friend. Include beer, Direct TV NFL Sunday ticket and internet for all new chiefsplanets message board, with the biggest server in all of the universe. Guys can rule Mars, screw who they want and still all get together on Sunday to cheer on the earthly Chiefs. Partying like rockstars while breeding to get the most athletic, intergalactic QB in the universe to play for the Chiefs.

Hydrae
11-17-2010, 10:31 AM
Put up a flyer for anything and you'll have plenty of volunteers...especially if it's for something that satisfies the tiny--or large--narcissistic person in all of us. And yeah, being one of the first people on Mars is perfect for that regardless of how realistic or irrational the idea is of believing anyone will remember.
But anyway, while I see the point you're making, it still looks like a suicide mission for at least the first crew that goes out there. For instance, they're saying we should be aggressive and just go for it the way settlers did in North America...that reminds me of Roanoke, the first British settlement. The founder had returned to England for additional people and supplies to find it completely abandoned when he returned, and nobody ever found out why the original settlers disappeared other than a cryptic word "Croatoan" carved into a plank. Of course, we only hear about Jamestown and Plymoth Rock because those were successful attempts. Many times, the initial exploration party is a suicide mission to determine what mistakes were made and how the second (or third) time can be near-perfect.

Life is a suicide mission if you look at it that way. Personally, this would be a great way to spend my retirement.

Norman Einstein
11-17-2010, 12:38 PM
So it's Adam & Eve all over again.
Or Madam and Eve or Adam and Steve.

Norman Einstein
11-17-2010, 12:39 PM
Here is a picture of Cassel seeing any kind of a pass rush
http://www.moviecatcher.net/images/schwarzenegger-in-total-recall1.jpg

In all actuality it's a picture of the standard Cassel hater when he passes for a TD.

J Diddy
11-17-2010, 01:08 PM
I propose a two person crew consisting of both my ex wives.

JD10367
11-17-2010, 01:15 PM
Many times, the initial exploration party is a suicide mission to determine what mistakes were made and how the second (or third) time can be near-perfect.

You mean like when they moved the Baltimore Colts to Indy and then the Cleveland Browns to Baltimore?

Donger
11-17-2010, 01:18 PM
Uh, what would they eat?

JD10367
11-17-2010, 01:23 PM
Put up a flyer for anything and you'll have plenty of volunteers...especially if it's for something that satisfies the tiny--or large--narcissistic person in all of us.

This.

And yeah, being one of the first people on Mars is perfect for that regardless of how realistic or irrational the idea is of believing anyone will remember.

Not this. Are you kidding? You'd go down in history. There are very few names in mankind's history who can say "I was first". Christopher Columbus. Sir Edmund Hillary. Neil Armstrong. Whoever banged Madonna and took her cherry. Point is, there's only one "first". The first few people to head off to Mars will never be forgotten. Most of us--hell, almost all of us--will live out our lives in a small world of Nietzsche-like anonymity. There will be plenty of people willing to trade that for a place in history. Hell, I would in a heartbeat: I'm over 40 (and thus on the actuarial downslope of life), and have no kids. As long as there's a PS3 on board and a good catalog of DVDs (both Hollywood and pr0n), I'm good.

Norman Einstein
11-17-2010, 01:25 PM
Uh, what would they eat?

Freeze dried compressed Soylent Green.

Donger
11-17-2010, 01:30 PM
Freeze dried compressed Soylent Green.

Well, unless they are going to be re-supplied, they'd have to become self-sufficient.

Norman Einstein
11-17-2010, 01:32 PM
Well, unless they are going to be re-supplied, they'd have to become self-sufficient.

maybe they will just take Loooooonnnnnnnggggggg naps, as in suspended animaiton? Isn't that the way they did it in "Lost in Space"?

It could be a ploy to depopulate certain portions of the globe. Tell them all they need is on the rocket and by the time they find out they are out of food they will be too far away for a return trip!?

Lzen
11-17-2010, 01:34 PM
Uh, what would they eat?

.
Once the humans arrived at the base, their task would be not unlike that of the early settlers in North America only the underlying technology and utilized tools would be much more sophisticated. Plants could be grown outside of the caves in an enriched soil underneath a robotically constructed dome, thus providing the inhabitants of the outpost with food and an additional supply of oxygen.

ForeverChiefs58
11-17-2010, 03:53 PM
In all actuality it's a picture of the standard Cassel hater when he passes for a TD.

I think more like this when he passes for a TD
http://superweeds.com/images/e_3half_surprised.jpg

Donger
11-17-2010, 03:56 PM
.

Thanks. I wonder how much soil they would need to take?

The Pedestrian
11-17-2010, 08:47 PM
This.



Not this. Are you kidding? You'd go down in history. There are very few names in mankind's history who can say "I was first". Christopher Columbus. Sir Edmund Hillary. Neil Armstrong. Whoever banged Madonna and took her cherry. Point is, there's only one "first". The first few people to head off to Mars will never be forgotten. Most of us--hell, almost all of us--will live out our lives in a small world of Nietzsche-like anonymity. There will be plenty of people willing to trade that for a place in history. Hell, I would in a heartbeat: I'm over 40 (and thus on the actuarial downslope of life), and have no kids. As long as there's a PS3 on board and a good catalog of DVDs (both Hollywood and pr0n), I'm good.

How many people can you name from the Santa Maria, Nina, and Pinta? And while we all remember Neil Armstrong--and sometimes Buzz Aldrin--who were the other guys on that trip? Who was the second Chilean miner to get lifted out of the shaft? Third? Fourth?
The people who are remembered after these events are the leaders, first off the ship, or returners...mainly because history is written by the winners, and winners include themselves and their closest friends--not everybody involved.

Rain Man
11-17-2010, 10:47 PM
They need to get like 20 beautiful model athletes and 1 guy, ok he can bring 1 best friend. Include beer, Direct TV NFL Sunday ticket and internet for all new chiefsplanets message board, with the biggest server in all of the universe. Guys can rule Mars, screw who they want and still all get together on Sunday to cheer on the earthly Chiefs. Partying like rockstars while breeding to get the most athletic, intergalactic QB in the universe to play for the Chiefs.

That's not Mars. That's heaven.

Al Bundy
11-21-2010, 07:46 AM
Off subject, but I would be up for sending the Westboro Baptist church on the first "Sun exploration" trip.

Uncle_Ted
11-21-2010, 10:08 AM
How many people can you name from the Santa Maria, Nina, and Pinta? And while we all remember Neil Armstrong--and sometimes Buzz Aldrin--who were the other guys on that trip? Who was the second Chilean miner to get lifted out of the shaft? Third? Fourth?
The people who are remembered after these events are the leaders, first off the ship, or returners...mainly because history is written by the winners, and winners include themselves and their closest friends--not everybody involved.

Michael Collins (who remained in orbit while Armstrong and Aldrin landed on the moon). Won me a free beer at a local bar's trivia night.