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View Full Version : Chiefs Roaf and some other guys are semifinalists for the Hall of Fame


Rain Man
11-28-2010, 11:23 AM
The first-time nominees are Jerome Bettis Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, and Deion Sanders.


My thinking is that if they take five new members, they SHOULD be Sanders, Roaf, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, and Marshall Faulk.

Instead, they WILL be Faulk, Sanders, Charles Haley, George Young, and Cortez Kennedy.

The most interesting trivia? There's not a single quarterback among the semifinalists.

http://www.nfl.com/halloffame/story/09000d5d81c766a1/article/five-firsttimers-head-list-of-26-hall-of-fame-semifinalists?module=HP_headlines

Jerome Bettis, RB (1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers)

Tim Brown, WR/KR (1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers)

Cris Carter, WR (1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins)

Don Coryell, Coach (1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers)

Roger Craig, RB (1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings)

Terrell Davis, RB (1995-2001 Denver Broncos)

Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner (1979-1997 San Francisco 49ers)

Dermontti Dawson, C (1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers)

Richard Dent, DE (1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles)

Chris Doleman, DE/LB (1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers)

Marshall Faulk, RB (1994-98 Indianapolis Colts, 1999-2005 St. Louis Rams)

Kevin Greene, LB/DE (1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers)

Ray Guy, P (1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders)

Charles Haley, DE/LB (1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys)

Lester Hayes, CB (1977-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders)

Cortez Kennedy, DT (1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks)

Curtis Martin, RB (1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets)

Art Modell, Owner (1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2003 Baltimore Ravens)

Willie Roaf, OT (1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs)

Andre Reed, WR (1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins)

Ed Sabol, Contributor (1964-1995 NFL Films)

Deion Sanders, CB/KR/PR (1989-1993 Atlanta Falcons, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1995-99 Dallas Cowboys, 2000 Washington Redskins, 2004-05 Baltimore Ravens)

Shannon Sharpe, TE (1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens)

Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner (1989-2006 National Football League)

Aeneas Williams, CB/S (1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams)

George Young, Contributor (1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League)

The list of 26 semifinalists will be reduced by mail ballot to 15 finalists. That list will increase to 17 with the inclusion of two candidates recommended by the Hall of Fame's seniors committee. The Seniors Committee nominees, who were announced in August, are linebacker Chris Hanburger (1965-1978, Washington Redskins) and linebacker Les Richter (1954-1962, Los Angeles Rams).

The 15 finalists will be announced in early January.

To be considered for election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, a nominated player or coach must not have participated as an active player or coach for five consecutive seasons. A contributor still may be active in his pro football career.

Although there isn't a set number of enshrinees for any Hall of Fame class, the current ground rules stipulate that between four and seven new members will be selected each year. No more than five modern-era nominees can be elected in a given year, and a class of six or seven enshrinees can only be reached if one or both senior nominees are elected.

The Class of 2011 will be determined at the selection committee's annual meeting Feb. 5, the day before Super Bowl XLV in Arlington, Texas. The election results will be announced at 7 p.m. ET (6 p.m. CT) during a one-hour NFL Network special, live from the Super Bowl media headquarters.

Gonzo
11-28-2010, 11:38 AM
I don't care who makes it in as long as Shannon "Mush Mouth" Sharpe gets stiffed again.

I take it Roaf would likely go in as a Saint wouldn't he? Is it up to the player?
Posted via Mobile Device

Bowser
11-28-2010, 11:40 AM
A ton of deserving guys on that list.

milkman
11-28-2010, 11:40 AM
I don't care who makes it in as long as Shannon "Mush Mouth" Sharpe gets stiffed again.

I take it Roaf would likely go in as a Saint wouldn't he? Is it up to the player?
Posted via Mobile Device

Players don't go in as member of a team.

The teams they played for are all listed.

KCrockaholic
11-28-2010, 11:44 AM
I don't care who makes it in as long as Shannon "Mush Mouth" Sharpe gets stiffed again.

I take it Roaf would likely go in as a Saint wouldn't he? Is it up to the player?
Posted via Mobile Device

Players don't enter the HOF as a certain team member. He retired as a Chief so that was his last team. Players enter as individuals.

KCrockaholic
11-28-2010, 11:44 AM
Players don't go in as member of a team.

The teams they played for are all listed.

Dang... Shoulda looked first lol.

chasedude
11-28-2010, 11:46 AM
Alot of good names on that list. I'd have a hard time picking just 5, of course Roaf would be a biased pick for me.

Chiefs Rool
11-28-2010, 11:48 AM
I don't know if there are any "sure things" from that list. Maybe Marshall Faulk, Jerome Bettis and Deion Sanders, but I wouldn't say they are sure fire, 1st ballot either.

milkman
11-28-2010, 11:49 AM
Players aside, Ed Sabol absolutely should be in.

milkman
11-28-2010, 11:51 AM
I don't know if there are any "sure things" from that list. Maybe Marshall Faulk, Jerome Bettis and Deion Sanders, but I wouldn't say they are sure fire, 1st ballot either.

I don't think Bettis should be a sure thing, but Faulk and Sanders will almost certainly get in.

And as far as I'm concerned, if you are afraid to tackle, you don't deserve it, but Sanders will.

Flash always gets votes.

BigMeatballDave
11-28-2010, 11:51 AM
Art Modell? I dont know about the HOF, but he has a special place reserved in Hell.

BigMeatballDave
11-28-2010, 11:53 AM
Tim Brown should be 1st ballot.

Rain Man
11-28-2010, 11:53 AM
Players aside, Ed Sabol absolutely should be in.

I find it odd that those people get in via the same method as the players in votes against the players. It seems like they should go in via a separate process.

DaFace
11-28-2010, 11:54 AM
Damn, that's a tough year to try and get in.

BigMeatballDave
11-28-2010, 11:54 AM
I don't care who makes it in as long as Shannon "Mush Mouth" Sharpe gets stiffed again.

I take it Roaf would likely go in as a Saint wouldn't he? Is it up to the player?
Posted via Mobile DevicePlayers do not enter the HOF as a member of any team. Below their bust is who they played for and when.

milkman
11-28-2010, 11:54 AM
I find it odd that those people get in via the same method as the players in votes against the players. It seems like they should go in via a separate process.

I agree.

KCrockaholic
11-28-2010, 11:55 AM
Tim Brown should be 1st ballot.

Yup. Great player... Piece of shit team

milkman
11-28-2010, 11:56 AM
Yup. Great player... Piece of shit team

Isn't this Tim Brown's second shot?

Chris Carter needs to go in before Brown.

BigMeatballDave
11-28-2010, 11:58 AM
Dang... Shoulda looked first lol.LOL Same here.

BigMeatballDave
11-28-2010, 12:00 PM
Isn't this Tim Brown's second shot?

.Good question.

Rain Man
11-28-2010, 12:02 PM
Isn't this Tim Brown's second shot?

Chris Carter needs to go in before Brown.


I think it's much more than his second shot, and I question whether Brown even deserves to be there. I can't think of any big plays he ever made against us. I'd much rather have Cris Carter on my team than Tim Brown.

The three guys who should be locks this year are Carter, Sanders, and Roaf. While Roaf toiled in semi-anonymity in New Orleans, his time as the starting LT in the Priest Holmes era should've brought him some attention. I suspect that he might get passed over, though, and this will be a catchup year for some other deserving guys like Richard Dent.

COchief
11-28-2010, 12:03 PM
I don't think Bettis should be a sure thing, but Faulk and Sanders will almost certainly get in.

And as far as I'm concerned, if you are afraid to tackle, you don't deserve it, but Sanders will.

Flash always gets votes.

He is, without question, the best to ever play the position. Of course he gets in, just because he said he didn't like to tackle doesn't mean he didn't do it. I personally think he is a jerk off, but that doesn't cloud my judgment from the facts about the kind of player he was on the field.

Rain Man
11-28-2010, 12:05 PM
I guess this is indeed only Tim Brown's second shot at it. I thought he'd been retired longer than that.

Albert Lewis didn't make the cut this year after making it last year, too.

milkman
11-28-2010, 12:08 PM
He is, without question, the best to ever play the position. Of course he gets in, just because he said he didn't like to tackle doesn't mean he didn't do it. I personally think he is a jerk off, but that doesn't cloud my judgment from the facts about the kind of player he was on the field.

Deion Sanders is the best to ever play his poistion?

I don't think so.

I hoenestly don't believe what I said about his tackling, or lack thereof keeping him out, but anytime his name comes up, I have to say soemthing about, because, at the end of teh day, football requires tackling, and while he did tackle, by definition, he was a pussy about it.

But if I had a chance to take any corner that I ever saw in his prime years, I'd take Mike Haynes and Rod Woodson before I took Deion.

They were shutdown corners that did tackle.

the Talking Can
11-28-2010, 12:09 PM
Roaf is the best offensive lineman i've ever seen


totally dominant run and pass....they should just play tape of him making Freeney look like a little kid and then vote him in unanimously..

Deberg_1990
11-28-2010, 12:12 PM
Deon Sanders is the best cover corner to ever play. He absolutely deserves to be there.

I know alot of people dont care for him, but he seems like a decent guy to me as well.

Rain Man
11-28-2010, 12:14 PM
Deion Sanders is the best to ever play his poistion?

I don't think so.

I hoenestly don't believe what I said about his tackling, or lack thereof keeping him out, but anytime his name comes up, I have to say soemthing about, because, at the end of teh day, football requires tackling, and while he did tackle, by definition, he was a pussy about it.

But if I had a chance to take any corner that I ever saw in his prime years, I'd take Mike Haynes and Rod Woodson before I took Deion.

They were shutdown corners that did tackle.


He's not in the Hall of Fame for some reason, but I swear that Everson Walls was the best cover cornerback I've ever seen (other than maybe Sanders). Even better than my favorite Chiefs corners.

I don't think I ever saw enough of Woodson to make the call on him, but obviously he's got the reputation to make the case for him. I never quite saw the appeal of Mike Haynes, but in part that's because I hate all Raiders so much that I can't give them credit for anything.

Sanders has the fastest football speed I've ever seen. I remember seeing one clip of him returning a punt or an interception where he made the other players on the team look like they were running in mud.

BigMeatballDave
11-28-2010, 12:19 PM
Deon Sanders is the best cover corner to ever play. He absolutely deserves to be there.

I know alot of people dont care for him, but he seems like a decent guy to me as well.Good cover guy, couldnt tackle for shit.

milkman
11-28-2010, 12:19 PM
Deon Sanders is the best cover corner to ever play.

No he wasn't.

His speed made him one of the toughest to beat deep, but he was a marginal cover corner on shorter routes, and in short yardage situations was actually something of a liability.

milkman
11-28-2010, 12:22 PM
He's not in the Hall of Fame for some reason, but I swear that Everson Walls was the best cover cornerback I've ever seen (other than maybe Sanders). Even better than my favorite Chiefs corners.

I don't think I ever saw enough of Woodson to make the call on him, but obviously he's got the reputation to make the case for him. I never quite saw the appeal of Mike Haynes, but in part that's because I hate all Raiders so much that I can't give them credit for anything.

Sanders has the fastest football speed I've ever seen. I remember seeing one clip of him returning a punt or an interception where he made the other players on the team look like they were running in mud.

Haynes was a guy that you couldn't take deep, was a great bump and run corner that you couldn't beat on short routes, and was an absolute beast as a tackler.

Strong, physical corner with speed that you smply didn't throw at.

Chiefs Rool
11-28-2010, 12:23 PM
for my money, Rod Woodson is the best CB to ever play. The guy was amazing, I hated watching him play safety for the raiders, but even at that, he was great.

COchief
11-28-2010, 12:24 PM
Deion Sanders is the best to ever play his poistion?

I don't think so.

I hoenestly don't believe what I said about his tackling, or lack thereof keeping him out, but anytime his name comes up, I have to say soemthing about, because, at the end of teh day, football requires tackling, and while he did tackle, by definition, he was a pussy about it.

But if I had a chance to take any corner that I ever saw in his prime years, I'd take Mike Haynes and Rod Woodson before I took Deion.

They were shutdown corners that did tackle.

So you can name two corners that you'd rather have, that alone invalidates your argument,so he's the third best corner, 1st ballot worthy all the way.

milkman
11-28-2010, 12:26 PM
So you can name two corners that you'd rather have, that alone invalidates your argument,so he's the third best corner, 1st ballot worthy all the way.

Did you happen to see the part where I said that I don't actually believe what I said about his tackling, you dumbass?

milkman
11-28-2010, 12:28 PM
Further, I could name a few more, but I just named a couple.

I'm watching one of them taht I could name right now.

Gonzo
11-28-2010, 12:31 PM
Players don't go in as member of a team.

The teams they played for are all listed.
Really? I did not know that.
Question then...

I seem to remember a big deal being made out of Marcus Allen's induction into the HOF as a Chief and not a Raider. I take it that was just a bunch of people not knowing wtf they were talking about?
Posted via Mobile Device

COchief
11-28-2010, 12:32 PM
Did you happen to see the part where I said that I don't actually believe what I said about his tackling, you dumbass?

Ok smart guy, the one who just said Deion was "marginal" and a "liability" in coverage situations. How many people are agreeing with your retarded opinion in this thread? Everyone agrees he said he didn't like to tackle, everyone also says he was at worst top 2-3 EVER, I repeat EVER in coverage, all coverage situations. "Marginal in coverage" douchebag

milkman
11-28-2010, 12:32 PM
Really? I did not know that.
Question then...

I seem to remember a big deal being made out of Marcus Allen's induction into the HOF as a Chief and not a Raider. I take it that was just a bunch of people not knowing wtf they were talking about?
Posted via Mobile Device

Correct.

Gonzo
11-28-2010, 12:37 PM
Correct.

Well, put me in that category of stupidity I suppose. For some reason, I always thought players were inducted via the organization they played for. I stand corrected.
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman
11-28-2010, 12:37 PM
Ok smart guy, the one who just said Deion was "marginal" and a "liability" in coverage situations. How many people are agreeing with your retarded opinion in this thread? Everyone agrees he said he didn't like to tackle, everyone also says he was at worst top 2-3 EVER, I repeat EVER in coverage, all coverage situations. "Marginal in coverage" douchebag

I don't give a rat's ass if anyone agrees with you, you uselss little ****ing shit licker.

I watched as Deion got his ass beat on slants and curls over and over again in third and short situations.

He played on teams that put opponents into a lot of third and long situations, so it wasn't a liability that couldn't be overcome.

Especially slants, because that useless little pussy didn't like the physical beating he'd take following a route over the middle.

So **** off and take all the pride you can from being a guy that is afraid to stand out from the crowd and have a minority opinion.

COchief
11-28-2010, 12:38 PM
but I swear that Everson Walls was the best cover cornerback I've ever seen (other than maybe Sanders).

Sorry Rain Man, but you cannot discuss skill player positions and bring up old timers. He may have been dominate in his day, but he ran a 4.7 40 yard dash. Any modern WR could burn him deep with ease.

milkman
11-28-2010, 12:40 PM
Sorry Rain Man, but you cannot discuss skill player positions and bring up old timers. He may have been dominate in his day, but he ran a 4.7 40 yard dash. Any modern WR could burn him deep with ease.

And that's all I need to know about your dumb ass.

COchief
11-28-2010, 12:41 PM
I don't give a rat's ass if anyone agrees with you, you uselss little ****ing shit licker.

I watched as Deion got his ass beat on slants and curls over and over again in third and short situations.

He played on teams that put opponents into a lot of third and long situations, so it wasn't a liability that couldn't be overcome.

Especially slants, because that useless little pussy didn't like the physical beating he'd take following a route over the middle.

So **** off and take all the pride you can from being a guy that is afraid to stand out from the crowd and have a minority opinion.

Nice name calling there old man, you want to get into insults limp dick. How about your illustrious career that any 18 year could be trained on in two minutes? "Take this bottle to this address, now do it once a week until I say stop." Your entire career in one sentence. You failed at life and you know it just like everyone around you does.

milkman
11-28-2010, 12:45 PM
Nice name calling there old man, you want to get into insults limp dick. How about your illustrious career that any 18 year could be trained on in two minutes? "Take this bottle to this address, now do it once a week until I say stop." Your entire career in one sentence. You failed at life and you know it just like everyone around you does.

You know absolutely nothing about my job.

Rain Man
11-28-2010, 12:46 PM
Sorry Rain Man, but you cannot discuss skill player positions and bring up old timers. He may have been dominate in his day, but he ran a 4.7 40 yard dash. Any modern WR could burn him deep with ease.


I'm not sure how fast he was, but he a shutdown cornerback in his era. If he was around today, he'd be a shutdown cornerback today. He might be faster and stronger due to the changes in training and nutrition, though. I don't think evolution has had that much impact in the past 25 years.

COchief
11-28-2010, 12:46 PM
You know absolutely nothing about my job.

Oh please tell me about how complicated it gets around Christmas when eggnog orders start making things difficult. You are smart enough to know when to stop talking shit to the wrong person, I'll give you that.

COchief
11-28-2010, 12:48 PM
I'm not sure how fast he was, but he a shutdown cornerback in his era. If he was around today, he'd be a shutdown cornerback today. He might be faster and stronger due to the changes in training and nutrition, though. I don't think evolution has had that much impact in the past 25 years.

"Pro scouts thought he was too slow for the NFL after he ran the 40-yard dash in a disappointing 4.72 seconds during workouts"

He also played for the Cowboys during their glory days and only made 4 pro bowls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everson_Walls

Sorry dude, he would get clowned out hard.

milkman
11-28-2010, 12:52 PM
Oh please tell me about how complicated it gets around Christmas when eggnog orders start making things difficult. You are smart enough to know when to stop talking shit to the wrong person, I'll give you that.

When do I stop talking shit to your dumb ass?

Just because you think you know how easy my job is doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

And what I do for a living has no bearing on whether or not you are a ****ing useless dumbass.

Rain Man
11-28-2010, 12:54 PM
"Pro scouts thought he was too slow for the NFL after he ran the 40-yard dash in a disappointing 4.72 seconds during workouts"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everson_Walls

Sorry dude, he would get clowned out hard.

How much faster have times gotten in the past 30 years, though? If Walls got the same training and resources that modern players have, I suspect that he'd run faster than Brandon Flowers' 4.58. And Flowers is working out pretty well.

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/vtfootball/wb/159558 (This is also a good read on Flowers in general.)

How valuable is time? Ask Brandon Flowers. A split second or two on a stopwatch could wind up costing the Virginia Tech cornerback a million or two in guaranteed signing-bonus dollars in Saturday's NFL draft.

Rated by a number of teams as the draft's top cornerback going into the NFL combine in late February, Flowers' mediocre 40-yard time at the league's annual meat market prompted his fall from first to fifth among defensive backs on most analysts' mock draft boards.

Flowers ran a 4.58 40 at the combine, placing him 20th among the 27 corners who tested. If he had run, say, a 4.4, Tech defensive backfield coach Torrian Gray thinks Flowers could have likely been the first defensive back taken in Saturday's opening round. Now, he's looking more like a late first-round or possible early second-round pick, at best.

"If Brandon runs even in the high 4.4s at the combine, he's a top-15 pick it's safe to say and maybe even a top-10 pick," Gray said. "It was just a deal where didn't run the time when it mattered most and when he really needed to. Plus, all the guys he was in contention with all ran great times, so that's why he's not looked at as high in the NFL's eyes.

"Brandon, I guess, from a stopwatch thing, he's not a 4.4 guy. All I know, though, is that on the football field people rarely ran by him."

After only slightly improving on his combine time when ran a 4.54 at Tech's Pro Day in late March, Flowers said his coverage skills and technique -- generally rated tops among all corners in the draft by scouts -- make up for any split second on a stopwatch anyway.

"I know that I'm faster than that," the 5-foot-10, 189-pound Flowers said. "My ability to change direction is a big part of my game. And if you can twist your hips like I can, it's hard to get beaten. I just cover guys and make plays. That's what it's all about in the end."

Exactly, Gray said. He should know. The ex-Hokie corner played three years with the Minnesota Vikings before being forced to retire with a knee injury in 2000.

"Obviously, I've got bias, but I think Brandon is the best corner in the draft," Gray said. "I just think his feel for the game ... he has an 'it' factor with the game. He's not the fastest person, but he's got instincts, toughness, great change of direction. I just think there's a lot of intangibles that's going to allow him to be successful at that level."

Flowers' height may be an issue to some teams. At barely 5-10, he ranks among the shorter third of the corners on the draft board.

"Being a smaller guy, it hurt him more when he didn't run a great 40," Gray said. "When you go to that level, they're going to put a lot of stock in the measurables. That's how the pros do business. That's just kind of how the game is played. I can't say it's unfortunate because even if I'm on that level, maybe I'm guilty of that a little bit, too.

"Saying that, I say turn on the video. From a pure video standpoint, he's the best guy out there."

Where will Flowers likely wind up? NFL draft analysts Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay both have projected him going to Green Bay in the first round (30th overall pick). Others have him going No. 28 to Dallas, but that was before the Cowboys acquired suspended corner Adam "Pacman" Jones from Tennessee on Wednesday. If he falls into the second round, Kansas City, which is in dire need of help at corner, has the fourth pick of Round 2.

No matter what goes down Saturday, Gray said his two-time All-American corner made the right move by leaving Tech a year early for the NFL.

"There's absolutely no doubt about it," Gray said. "Brandon was right to go. He was ready for it. And wherever he winds up, he's going to be a great player. He's got all it takes to have a super NFL career."

COchief
11-28-2010, 01:00 PM
And what I do for a living has no bearing on whether or not you are a ****ing useless dumbass.

Actually it does, you see I'm the president of my own company and in my thirties, I'm getting ready to ski and travel for the next six months without a worry in the world. You on the other hand, are essentially a garbage man and are owned by a company with someone like me at the top. You failed at life, I am winning at life. Big difference

milkman
11-28-2010, 01:03 PM
Actually it does, you see I'm the president of my own company and in my thirties, I'm getting ready to ski and travel for the next six months without a worry in the world. You on the other hand, are essentially a garbage man and are owned by a company with someone like me at the top. You failed at life, I am winning at life. Big difference

In short, you're an arrogant prick that looks down on people that are happy just to make an honest living.

COchief
11-28-2010, 01:06 PM
Bunch of stuff about flowers not being fast"

I'm with you. Did you see what Ford of the Raiders did to him? Especially on that long flag route? Flowers looked like he was standing still. I think we purposefully do not put Flowers in a lot of situations where he can get burned like that. He is either in zone or his bump and run recovery is good enough that he rarely gets exposed.

Agree to disagree...etc

On another note, I am consider a z4 m edition vert, how have you liked your z3?

COchief
11-28-2010, 01:09 PM
In short, you're an arrogant prick that looks down on people that are happy just to make an honest living.

Only when they try to look down on me from the basement my friend. You called me a dumbass several times, you needed a reality check.

Rain Man
11-28-2010, 01:11 PM
I'm with you. Did you see what Ford of the Raiders did to him? Especially on that long flag route? Flowers looked like he was standing still. I think we purposefully do not put Flowers in a lot of situations where he can get burned like that. He is either in zone or his bump and run recovery is good enough that he rarely gets exposed.

Agree to disagree...etc

On another note, I am consider a z4 m edition vert, how have you liked your z3?


Yeah, time will tell on Flowers.

Love the Z3. I'm not sure how much it has in common with the Z4 (maybe a lot, maybe a little), but I'm a big fan of the Z3. Not only is it fun, but it's one of the few two-seaters that can actually hold decent luggage for a road trip.

milkman
11-28-2010, 01:16 PM
Only when they try to look down on me from the basement my friend. You called me a dumbass several times, you needed a reality check.

I'm calling you a dumbass as it relates to football.

But the fact is, regardless of your reason, that's a window into your personality.

You think your position in life somehow makes you a better person, and that attitude, in fact, makes you a lesser person.

Chiefs Rool
11-28-2010, 01:19 PM
Actually it does, you see I'm the president of my own company and in my thirties, I'm getting ready to ski and travel for the next six months without a worry in the world. You on the other hand, are essentially a garbage man and are owned by a company with someone like me at the top. You failed at life, I am winning at life. Big difference

not cool to start insulting others for what they do for a living, as long as it's an honest one. I don't have a dream job and I don't make a ton of money, but I'm happy with my life and you would probably say the same thing about my job, it's nothing great, but I show up on time every day and make an honest living and support my family. Congrats on your exotic lifestyle because you are so rich, that's great, now f*ck off.

COchief
11-28-2010, 01:32 PM
I'm calling you a dumbass as it relates to football.

But the fact is, regardless of your reason, that's a window into your personality.

You think your position in life somehow makes you a better person, and that attitude, in fact, makes you a lesser person.

I read this board much more than I post, I know you and how you behave towards other posters and you are the first person to call others names and put them down and try to make them feel bad about themselves. Don't start crying now, you are the BB bully who just got his ass kicked and now you are spouting off about "lesser person". Fugg you and the milk truck you rode in on, I even allowed you several insults and name callings before you got the truth.

Hypocritical piece of shit.

COchief
11-28-2010, 01:35 PM
not cool to start insulting others

What I wrote has nothing to do with anyone but milkman and look who started the insults and name calling. There is plenty of people in this world that I have a ton of respect for and that don't make much money. Teachers, nurses, charity workers and about a million other occupations that I would never look down on.

Don't feel bad for Milkman, if you have seen his posting patterns he got what he deserved.

milkman
11-28-2010, 01:37 PM
I read this board much more than I post, I know you and how you behave towards other posters and you are the first person to call others names and put them down and try to make them feel bad about themselves. Don't start crying now, you are the BB bully who just got his ass kicked and now you are spouting off about "lesser person". Fugg you and the milk truck you rode in on, I even allowed you several insults and name callings before you got the truth.

Hypocritical piece of shit.

First, I am not at all insulted by your arrogant attitude.

I am simply giving you the truth about who you are.

And yes, I do insult people for their opinions when I think they are stupid opinions.

However, I only insult them as it relates to the subject, unless they step into personal shit first, as you did.

milkman
11-28-2010, 01:42 PM
Further, my first insult was because of the selective nature of a post when you addressed one of my posts.