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OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 04:48 PM
Things have been nuts lately for the OTW household as of late - between family, a back injury, the holidays and upcoming final exams - I don't think I've posted in a month. I haven't even had time to lurk. Thought I'd pop in and say hi, as this is the last chance I'll likely have until finals are over.

I'm sure I'll get ripped for saying anything remotely negative, regardless of what I say that's positive, but fuck it.

Losing to Oakland AND Denver may very well keep us out of the playoffs when it's all said and done - which depresses the hell out of me. Especially after seeing a rookie QB go into Denver yesterday with no running game and beat the Broncos. Had we taken care of business in even one of those games, the SD game in two weeks wouldn't be nearly as important. Now, assuming we don't trip up somewhere else we shouldn't, it appears that SD game is going to determine our fate. I hope the Chargers from September show up, because the Chargers that haven't lost a December game in ages looks fucking nasty right now. They destroyed the Colts in all facets of the game last night. The Lightning Bolts are coming...

But first things first...

Holy shit, we won a fucking road game against a decent team. Spare me the "Cleveland" comments, as that team was absolute garbage when we played them- they're a completely different team now.

Matt Cassel has played his best two games as a Chief the past two weeks, IMO. He's been decisive with the ball, he's had solid pocket presence and he's been much more accurate. So I give credit where credit is due.

However...

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about him being able to play at that level in a game in which the opposition shuts down or limits the running game. And I fully expect him to get an opportunity when we face the Chargers in two weeks.

We've had 3 games this year in which we've been held under 135 yards rushing.

We've lost all three.

Show me you can carry this team on your back if necessary, Matt.

Moving on...

I'm sure this place was all over the map regarding the Haley non-handshake. Call me old-school, and maybe it's the hockey player in me, but I shake the hand of the opponent regardless of what is said or done. If Todd refused to shake because he thinks McKid ran up the score, that's ridiculous. Christ, Haley was going for two after our late meaningless TD's. If you don't like it, stop them. And if he snubbed him because of the reports of McKid pulling a Belichick, that's even more childish. It's not Todd's place - it's a league issue. Show the same grace and class in losing as you do in winning. But it's over now, and should make Sunday's game a wee bit more interesting, to say the least.

Dwayne Bowe is back to the D-Bowe of his 1st and 2nd year, plus some. Loving it.

Tamba Hali, however, has been damn near invisible the past three weeks. This has to change if the Chiefs have any chance of not only making the playoffs, but potentially winning a game should they get there.

Speaking of playoffs...

Like I said early on, those losses to Oakland and Denver are soul-crushers. Based on how they've played of late, their history of owning the month of December and the ridiculously easy schedule they have left, it's hard to see the Chargers dropping a game - unless it's to us.

Which means we pretty much have to win out to make sure we're not on the outside looking in.

There are three games that will/could give us trouble, IMO.

Denver, SD, and STL.

I'm willing to bet very few agree with Denver or STL, but if we don't generate a pass rush against either, it could get hairy - especially this weekend if Flowers is out. And I think Cassel is going to have to have the game of his life against SD, because I think they can, and will shut down our running game. The next five weeks will be very, very interesting, that's for sure. I hope these guys are up to the challenge.

Hope everyone had a happy and safe Thanksgiving.

Go Chiefs.

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2010, 04:51 PM
Spot on.

Cassel's pretty stats won't mean jack if we miss the playoffs.

Buck
11-29-2010, 04:52 PM
HE LIVES!

Rain Man
11-29-2010, 04:53 PM
That's a whole month's worth?

jd1020
11-29-2010, 04:53 PM
I agree with STL being a tough one. No it wont be as lopsided as some road games are but they still have Bradford as a QB. Thats all they need for me to worry about them.

tk13
11-29-2010, 04:56 PM
See, everyone says he needs to do this and that... but if Cassel goes on the road to SD and lights up the #1 defense in the league... he hasn't just made it, we're a Super Bowl contender.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 04:57 PM
That's a whole month's worth?

Condensed version. Most of my thoughts have been directed towards school of late. Football has literally been 3 hours a week for me.

It usually consumes a good chunk of my free time between this place and fantasy football.

And it's probably good I wasn't around for the Oakland or Denver games...

Der Flöprer
11-29-2010, 04:57 PM
Awesome. You nailed it.

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 04:58 PM
Good Luck on your Finals...Hope theyre over soon so you an get your ass back here to rant and rave.....

Place isn't the same unless everyone is here!

dirk digler
11-29-2010, 05:00 PM
Hard to disagree with any of that OTW and good to see you back.

Rain Man
11-29-2010, 05:02 PM
Condensed version. Most of my thoughts have been directed towards school of late. Football has literally been 3 hours a week for me.

It usually consumes a good chunk of my free time between this place and fantasy football.

And it's probably good I wasn't around for the Oakland or Denver games...


Oh. Okay. As long as there were other thoughts on other subjects.

I was at the Denver game, and I can't reveal most of my thoughts from that game.

Deberg_1990
11-29-2010, 05:03 PM
Its the NFL....crazy things happen....trying to predict what wins a team is going to have 2, 3 or 4 weeks from now is pointless.

BigMeatballDave
11-29-2010, 05:03 PM
You missed out on all the Faider trolls. It was quite entertaining.

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2010, 05:04 PM
See, everyone says he needs to do this and that... but if Cassel goes on the road to SD and lights up the #1 defense in the league... he hasn't just made it, we're a Super Bowl contender.

Only if he doesn't blow it down the stretch.

tk13
11-29-2010, 05:05 PM
Only if he doesn't blow it down the stretch.

I just want to see if we can get this Cassel on the field with McCluster and Moeaki playing at full strength to go along with Bowe.

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 05:06 PM
Only if he doesn't blow it down the stretch.

Correct. If we should lose to SD in SD and miss the playoffs, he is back to being a fraud.

On CP you are either a Fraud or you are a superbowl contender....

FUCK THE IN BETWEEN

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:06 PM
Spot on.

Cassel's pretty stats won't mean jack if we miss the playoffs.

As I, and others have pointed out before - it's not just his stats, it's being able to dive deeper into his play that produced those stats.

I think it's fair to say that any NFL QB that is expected to be an elite/franchise QB would be able to do what Cassel is doing provided they had the benefit of the running game.

Which is why I need to see him do what an elite QB does - win a game on his own - before I crown his ass.

He'll do pretty much what Hamas and I said he'd do - throw around 3500 yards, throw 25-30 TD's and 8-12 INT's. Is it because he's actually gotten better, or because Weis is asking him to do what he's capable of doing?

Combination of both, I think.

Like I said, he's likely going to get at least one chance to carry the team, because I think the Chargers will go balls out to shut down the run and make Cassel beat them.

And if he does, he'll probably get another chance in the playoffs against the Ravens, Steelers or Jets.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:07 PM
Good Luck on your Finals...Hope theyre over soon so you an get your ass back here to rant and rave.....

Place isn't the same unless everyone is here!

Thanks.

DeezNutz
11-29-2010, 05:08 PM
I just want to see if we can get this Cassel on the field with McCluster and Moeaki playing at full strength to go along with Bowe.

But will this Cassel supercede that Cassel if those teams are better than the other teams that one Cassel played against?

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 05:09 PM
He'll do pretty much what Hamas and I said he'd do - throw around 3500 yards, throw 25-30 TD's and 8-12 INT's. Is it because he's actually gotten better, or because Weis is asking him to do what he's capable of doing?



Isn't 30 TD's a Chiefs franchise record? So you guys thought he would get 30 TD's and only 8 picks...Setting a new franchise record while only throwing 8 picks...

Wow you mustve been a truefan....I missed those posts somehow.

DaneMcCloud
11-29-2010, 05:09 PM
Cassel's pretty stats won't mean jack if we miss the playoffs.

Absolutely wrong.

No one, besides those people that think the Chiefs will be 10-6 every year, thought that the Chiefs would be in the playoff hunt eleven games into the season AND that Matt Cassel would have 22TD's against 4 INT's.

MOST people thought that the Chiefs were gearing up for 2011 and that this would be a "Make or Break" year for Cassel. Well, guess what? They're competing in 2010 AND Cassel definitely "Makes" it.

We all hope that the Chiefs go 5-0 and hit the playoffs running but if they falter and San Diego wins the division, this team will have learned an enormous amount about itself this season.

They'll have learned how to WIN, they'll have learned that they have a very solid core of young-ish players (Bowe, Albert, Richardson, Charles, Flowers, Johnson, Carr, Dorsey, Tucker, Moeaki, Arenas, McCluster, Berry & Lewis) and that they quite possibly have the "Answer" at QB.

Cassel has been steadily ascending as of late and IF that continues (and even if it continues 4 out of the next 5 games), they'll be in a prime position to make a serious run next year.

Even if this team goes 10-6 or 11-5 and misses the playoffs, 2010 will have been a HUGE success and will have far exceeded expectations.

SNR
11-29-2010, 05:10 PM
There's a lot of shit being talked about you right now

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 05:11 PM
Cassel has been steadily ascending as of late and IF that continues (and even if it continues 4 out of the next 5 games), they'll be in a prime position to make a serious run next year.

Even if this team goes 10-6 or 11-5 and misses the playoffs, 2010 will have been a HUGE success and will have far exceeded expectations.

Holy **** did I just read that

Fresh out of rep too...fiugures

Deberg_1990
11-29-2010, 05:11 PM
Absolutely wrong.

No one, besides those people that think the Chiefs will be 10-6 every year, thought that the Chiefs would be in the playoff hunt eleven games into the season AND that Matt Cassel would have 22TD's against 4 INT's.

MOST people thought that the Chiefs were gearing up for 2011 and that this would be a "Make or Break" year for Cassel. Well, guess what? They're competing in 2010 AND Cassel definitely "Makes" it.

We all hope that the Chiefs go 5-0 and hit the playoffs running but if they falter and San Diego wins the division, this team will have learned an enormous amount about itself this season.

They'll have learned how to WIN, they'll have learned that they have a very solid core of young-ish players (Bowe, Albert, Richardson, Charles, Flowers, Johnson, Carr, Dorsey, Tucker, Moeaki, Arenas, McCluster, Berry & Lewis) and that they quite possibly have the "Answer" at QB.

Cassel has been steadily ascending as of late and IF that continues (and even if it continues 4 out of the next 5 games), they'll be in a prime position to make a serious run next year.

Even if this team goes 10-6 or 11-5 and misses the playoffs, 2010 will have been a HUGE success and will have far exceeded expectations.

Well said Dane....i think alot of us here need to have some perspective. Way to put everything back into context.

chasedude
11-29-2010, 05:11 PM
I've was curious why I havn't seen none of your posts lately.

Good take and pretty much how I feel about the team and our playoff situation, I just don't talk about it here.

Direckshun
11-29-2010, 05:12 PM
I think you're gay.

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2010, 05:12 PM
Even if this team goes 10-6 or 11-5 and misses the playoffs, 2010 will have been a HUGE success and will have far exceeded expectations.

I agree, but all it means is they have to take the next step in 2011.

We're going to have a brutal 2011 schedule. If they miss the playoffs again, no one will care about our "awesome" NFC West padded 2010 or Cassel's 30 TD passes.

doomy3
11-29-2010, 05:12 PM
Absolutely wrong.

No one, besides those people that think the Chiefs will be 10-6 every year, thought that the Chiefs would be in the playoff hunt eleven games into the season AND that Matt Cassel would have 22TD's against 4 INT's.

MOST people thought that the Chiefs were gearing up for 2011 and that this would be a "Make or Break" year for Cassel. Well, guess what? They're competing in 2010 AND Cassel definitely "Makes" it.

We all hope that the Chiefs go 5-0 and hit the playoffs running but if they falter and San Diego wins the division, this team will have learned an enormous amount about itself this season.

They'll have learned how to WIN, they'll have learned that they have a very solid core of young-ish players (Bowe, Albert, Richardson, Charles, Flowers, Johnson, Carr, Dorsey, Tucker, Moeaki, Arenas, McCluster, Berry & Lewis) and that they quite possibly have the "Answer" at QB.

Cassel has been steadily ascending as of late and IF that continues (and even if it continues 4 out of the next 5 games), they'll be in a prime position to make a serious run next year.

Even if this team goes 10-6 or 11-5 and misses the playoffs, 2010 will have been a HUGE success and will have far exceeded expectations.


This. Absolutely this.

There isn't anyone on this board who thought we would be competing for the playoffs and Cassel would have 22 TDs vs. 4 INTs. No one.

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 05:14 PM
This. Absolutely this.

There isn't anyone on this board who thought we would be competing for the playoffs and Cassel would have 22 TDs vs. 4 INTs. No one.

Well besides Hamas and OTW who knew he would.....

doomy3
11-29-2010, 05:14 PM
I wonder if Mecca is also just so busy at home that he hasn't had time to post.

Deberg_1990
11-29-2010, 05:14 PM
We're going to have a brutal 2011 schedule.

Once again, why are you trying to predict how teams will be next year?? Nobody knows...its the NFL.

FAX
11-29-2010, 05:14 PM
Hmmm.

Glad you're okay, Mr. OnTheWarpath58. But, Mr. milkman can drum up that many thoughts in about an hour, dude.

I shall retort your wacky monthly observations, however ...

First off, it sounds as though you've forgotten that we've only won about 3 games over the last 4 seasons. We're improving, but we're still a very young team with holes all over the place. We can expect a couple of losses from a team like this. We couldn't close out Houston, we self-destructed in Oakland, and forgot to show up in Denver ... it's a shame, but we can and should expect inconsistency due to our overall inexperience.

Second off, screw the Sparks. They were supposed to kick our ass at Arrowhead, too. Let's wait until we actually play the game before we unconditionally surrender.

Third off, this Chiefs team is designed to run the ball successfully. It shouldn't be any surprise that, when we can't run, we don't win. In November and December, you have to run the ball. However, if Cassel's performances of late are not a mirage or some kind of trick designed to sell tickets, maybe we can begin to take advantage of the enemy when they sell out to stop the run ... according to Carroll, that's exactly what happened in Seattle.

Fourth off, Haley has every right to not shake hands with anybody he doesn't want to shake hands with. Especially nose pickers. You don't know what's on that hand. Plus, it's flu season.

Fifth off, Tamba did okay on Sunday ... not great, but his first step was quick off the snap. What he needs is to develop another couple of moves during the off-season (a spin, maybe?). Tamba's solid.

Sixth off, Playoffs? Who, in their right mind, was thinking playoffs before the season started? This season is already a success by any reasonable standard of measure - considering where we've been the last few years. I don't think we should get down on this team because we miss the playoffs. This has been a season in which we've made great strides in practically every conceivable area. The glass is half full ... of Dom.

FAX

DaneMcCloud
11-29-2010, 05:14 PM
As I, and others have pointed out before - it's not just his stats, it's being able to dive deeper into his play that produced those stats.

I think it's fair to say that any NFL QB that is expected to be an elite/franchise QB would be able to do what Cassel is doing provided they had the benefit of the running game.

Which is why I need to see him do what an elite QB does - win a game on his own - before I crown his ass.

He'll do pretty much what Hamas and I said he'd do - throw around 3500 yards, throw 25-30 TD's and 8-12 INT's. Is it because he's actually gotten better, or because Weis is asking him to do what he's capable of doing?

Combination of both, I think.

Like I said, he's likely going to get at least one chance to carry the team, because I think the Chargers will go balls out to shut down the run and make Cassel beat them.

And if he does, he'll probably get another chance in the playoffs against the Ravens, Steelers or Jets.

Cassel has improved over the course of the season. Occassionally, it's been one step forward, two steps back but he has improved.

I think that all of the reports of him being the first guy in and the last guy to leave were correct. He's obviously studying and getting better under Weis.

I was blown away by his play yesterday. Barry Richardson did a commendable job against Chris Clemons but there were a few plays were Clemons was very close to a sack. In the recent past, Cassel would have crumbled into a fetal position but yesterday, he ignored the pass rush and completed his passes. His passes were on the money as well - not four feet over the intended receiver's head.

I see yesterday's game as a huge building block and it appeared that he was able to overcome his fear of getting hit and make a play. IF that continues, Matt Cassel will be a helluva QB. And soon.

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2010, 05:15 PM
Once again, why are you trying to predict how teams will be next year?? Nobody knows...its the NFL.

Most predicted we would have a soft schedule this year and it's been a soft schedule.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:15 PM
Isn't 30 TD's a Chiefs franchise record? So you guys thought he would get 30 TD's and only 8 picks...Setting a new franchise record while only throwing 8 picks...

Wow you mustve been a truefan....I missed those posts somehow.

What does a franchise record have to do with it?

40 years of mediocre QB play validates Matt Cassel?

His stats have been solid. His overall play? Not so much.

When he's been needed the most, he's failed. 5000 yards and 50 TD's doesn't erase that, IMO.

Time for him to step up in a moment of need and carry his team.

I hope the running game never gets shut down, and it never becomes an issue, because that's our best chance of winning.

But I don't see that happening. Someone's going to come into a game loaded for bear against the run, begging Matt Cassel to beat them.

Time will tell if he can.

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 05:15 PM
Sixth off, Playoffs? Who, in their right mind, was thinking playoffs before the season started? This season is already a success by any reasonable standard of measure

FAX Dropping Science..as usual...

AMEN

doomy3
11-29-2010, 05:16 PM
Well besides Hamas and OTW who knew he would.....

I'm not saying they didn't, but I sure as hell don't remember reading those posts.

I remember several posts that said Weis would mask his deficiencies, but that isn't what's happening here.

Cassel is making plays. He is making good reads, and he is throwing good passes in tight windows. And he is doing a lot of it down field too. And he isn't taking sacks. Literally everything that he was hammered for last year isn't happening right now.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:16 PM
There's a lot of shit being talked about you right now

ROFL

Deberg_1990
11-29-2010, 05:16 PM
Time for him to step up in a moment of need and carry his team.
.

:facepalm:

Some of you guys are hopeless...

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 05:17 PM
What does a franchise record have to do with it?



It just seems odd that youre coming out of the closet now saying you predicted Matt Cassel would break the Franchise record of TD's while only having 8-12 INTS.


Kind of like "I knew he would have a good year"

I just thought you were one of those who thought Cassel was horrible...Seems like a slight change of position...

doomy3
11-29-2010, 05:18 PM
Cassel has improved over the course of the season. Occassionally, it's been one step forward, two steps back but he has improved.

I think that all of the reports of him being the first guy in and the last guy to leave were correct. He's obviously studying and getting better under Weis.

I was blown away by his play yesterday. Barry Richardson did a commendable job against Chris Clemons but there were a few plays were Clemons was very close to a sack. In the recent past, Cassel would have crumbled into a fetal position but yesterday, he ignored the pass rush and completed his passes. His passes were on the money as well - not four feet over the intended receiver's head.

I see yesterday's game as a huge building block and it appeared that he was able to overcome his fear of getting hit and make a play. IF that continues, Matt Cassel will be a helluva QB. And soon.

Now this I completely disagree with. Richardson was horrible yesterday.

Buck
11-29-2010, 05:18 PM
I agree, but all it means is they have to take the next step in 2011.

We're going to have a brutal 2011 schedule. If they miss the playoffs again, no one will care about our "awesome" NFC West padded 2010 or Cassel's 30 TD passes.

I know baseball is different than Football, but the estimated number of wins was 70 for the Padres, they won 90 and just missed the playoffs.

It wasn't feel good or anything, in fact it felt pretty bad.

Top that with the fact that they are probably going to suck next year, and that argument pretty much loses all validity.

The only thing that will make you guys happy is a playoff birth, not "moral victories."

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-29-2010, 05:18 PM
I thought he'd throw for 18-12 at around 60% and 3500ish yards.

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 05:18 PM
I'm not saying they didn't, but I sure as hell don't remember reading those posts.



Funny you mention it, because I don't reemember reading them either. I remember getting ripped a new asshole for suggesting we wait and see what the kid could bring to the table this season...

DaneMcCloud
11-29-2010, 05:19 PM
Now this I completely disagree with. Richardson was horrible yesterday.

Well, I wouldn't say "horrible". He did a "commendable" job considering he'd been asked to play left tackle against a guy that had 8 sacks entering the game and IIRC, it was his first start at left tackle in the NFL.

Plus, the Chiefs did score 42 points, so he couldn't have been that horrible.

:D

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:20 PM
This. Absolutely this.

There isn't anyone on this board who thought we would be competing for the playoffs and Cassel would have 22 TDs vs. 4 INTs. No one.

So what?

The fact is, they ARE in that position now.

I expect them to be successful.

If you want to chalk up the season as a "win" just because they exceeded your expectations, be my guest.

I've seen what they are capable of if all cylinders are firing, and expect them to take care of business.

This team has shown signs they are capable of playing with anyone. Rationalizing failure down the stretch just because they've already exceeded your expectations is weak, IMO.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:21 PM
I thought he'd throw for 18-12 at around 60% and 3500ish yards.

My mistake. I thought I had you down for more TD's.

Deberg_1990
11-29-2010, 05:21 PM
Why are we still talking about Cassel when we should be talking about the defense and special teams problems??

doomy3
11-29-2010, 05:21 PM
Well, I wouldn't say "horrible". He did a "commendable" job considering he'd been asked to play left tackle against a guy that had 8 sacks entering the game and IIRC, it was his first start at left tackle in the NFL.

Plus, the Chiefs did score 42 points, so he couldn't have been that horrible.

:D

His pass protection was terrible. His run blocking, like always, was very, very good.

He would have given up many more sacks if Cassel had the awareness he had last year.

Rain Man
11-29-2010, 05:21 PM
I'm a little disappointed in the Chiefs, because I predicted a 16-0 season, like I do every year. Nonetheless, they're doing fine.

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2010, 05:22 PM
he is throwing good passes in tight windows

This isn't really true.

Cassel's two-game resurgence has featured a LOT of wide open receivers. For crying out loud, Bowe has scored a TD two weeks in a row where he's basically been UNCOVERED.

This is why you can't put too much stock in NFC West games.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:23 PM
It just seems odd that youre coming out of the closet now saying you predicted Matt Cassel would break the Franchise record of TD's while only having 8-12 INTS.


Kind of like "I knew he would have a good year"

I just thought you were one of those who thought Cassel was horrible...Seems like a slight change of position...

If you go back and read those posts, it was said that I expected him h=to have a solid year statistically.

As we've discussed ad nauseum around here, watching the games and determining how those stats were arrived upon is important.

doomy3
11-29-2010, 05:25 PM
This isn't really true.

Cassel's two-game resurgence has featured a LOT of wide open receivers. For crying out loud, Bowe has scored a TD two weeks in a row where he's basically been UNCOVERED.

This is why you can't put too much stock in NFC West games.

He threw some out routes yesterday in the only place he could put them. He also threw two back shoulder throws to Bowe where Bowe was tightly covered.

His throw downfield that you gif'd up against Arizona was right in between coverage as well.

He has put some balls right where they needed to be.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:25 PM
I'm not saying they didn't, but I sure as hell don't remember reading those posts.

I remember several posts that said Weis would mask his deficiencies, but that isn't what's happening here.

Cassel is making plays. He is making good reads, and he is throwing good passes in tight windows. And he is doing a lot of it down field too. And he isn't taking sacks. Literally everything that he was hammered for last year isn't happening right now.

It's exactly what was happening until the Arizona game.

Dude seemed to flip the switch racking up garbage yards in Denver.

Your last paragraph is what has happened the past two weeks - not the entire season, although he's been good about not taking sacks all year.

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 05:25 PM
The only thing that will make you guys happy is a playoff birth, not "moral victories."

This season it doesn't matter...Birth or No Birth, we aren't winning more than one game in the Playoffs. Don't get me wrong, I would shit my pants with utter joy and jubilation if we win a playoff game.

I would argue that this season is much MUCH more about moral victories than a meaningless playoff birth.

The team is getting better, Cassle doesn't look like deer in the headlights, he looks pretty damn good...We have played 60 minutes of football...Now we beat an average team on the Road in a pretty important game to both teams.

Yes a playoff birth would be important...BUT I would argue that even that is a moral victory. It is a moral victory for the experience it will give to this young team NOT because we have any chance at a ring.

So yes, right now it is all about Moral Victories IMO. And we are having them!

doomy3
11-29-2010, 05:27 PM
It's exactly what was happening until the Arizona game.

Dude seemed to flip the switch racking up garbage yards in Denver.

Your last paragraph is what has happened the past two weeks - not the entire season, although he's been good about not taking sacks all year.

If anything, I would say Weis was handcuffing the offense until the AZ game. He has opened things up the last couple weeks and Cassel has responded. Hopefully we see more of that.

BigMeatballDave
11-29-2010, 05:28 PM
:facepalm:

Some of you guys are hopeless...What OTWP mean here, and I agree, is we hope he can do it. Its not a matter of IF, but WHEN. Regardless of how well Cassel is playing now, will he be able to come thru when some D shuts the run down?

Bane
11-29-2010, 05:29 PM
Even if this team goes 10-6 or 11-5 and misses the playoffs, 2010 will have been a HUGE success and will have far exceeded expectations.

I will definitely have to remember this part of the quote.I can remember a thousand discussions in which all of our wins and good seasons under DV and in the 90's meant shit cause we didn't win a playoff game or the SB.:hmmm:

DaneMcCloud
11-29-2010, 05:31 PM
I've seen what they are capable of if all cylinders are firing, and expect them to take care of business.


I agree. I think that without a doubt, the Chiefs should beat Denver, St. Louis, Tennessee and Oakland. I'm most concerned about the St. Louis game because they're a very well coached team with a very, very good quarterback but in the grand scheme of things, the Chiefs should win.

More to your point, I believe that the Chiefs could go into San Diego with a healthy squad and their "A" game but lose the game, which would be a bummer.

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2010, 05:31 PM
He threw some out routes yesterday in the only place he could put them. He also threw two back shoulder throws to Bowe where Bowe was tightly covered.

His throw downfield that you gif'd up against Arizona was right in between coverage as well.

He has put some balls right where they needed to be.

When you say "windows," I think of a QB throwing in between two defenders, throwing into tight coverage or beating a safety coming over.

I'll give him credit putting those back shoulder throws in good spots, but that's not the same thing.

I still don't have a lot of confidence in our passing game because the last two games have basically just been Cassel and Bowe beating up on horrible defensive backs and coordinators that have no idea how to stop one receiver.

Good defenses and good coordinators are not going to allow one guy to beat them like that. Cassel can't just look for Bowe on every third down.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:31 PM
If anything, I would say Weis was handcuffing the offense until the AZ game. He has opened things up the last couple weeks and Cassel has responded. Hopefully we see more of that.

Chicken or egg?

You could just as easily argue that Charlie hasn't opened up the playbook because of Cassel up until that point.

There's no way to prove either way.

However, considering what I saw the first 10 weeks of the year, and what I've seen the last two weeks of the year from a performance standpoint - I'll put my money on the bold text.

The Cassel of Weeks 11 and 12 don't resemble anything we've seen of Cassel previously - in KC or NE.

Everything he's been knocked for in the past hasn't been an issue against Arizona and Seattle.

We need that play consistently if he's a franchise QB.

The Bad Guy
11-29-2010, 05:33 PM
Absolutely wrong.

No one, besides those people that think the Chiefs will be 10-6 every year, thought that the Chiefs would be in the playoff hunt eleven games into the season AND that Matt Cassel would have 22TD's against 4 INT's.

MOST people thought that the Chiefs were gearing up for 2011 and that this would be a "Make or Break" year for Cassel. Well, guess what? They're competing in 2010 AND Cassel definitely "Makes" it.

We all hope that the Chiefs go 5-0 and hit the playoffs running but if they falter and San Diego wins the division, this team will have learned an enormous amount about itself this season.

They'll have learned how to WIN, they'll have learned that they have a very solid core of young-ish players (Bowe, Albert, Richardson, Charles, Flowers, Johnson, Carr, Dorsey, Tucker, Moeaki, Arenas, McCluster, Berry & Lewis) and that they quite possibly have the "Answer" at QB.

Cassel has been steadily ascending as of late and IF that continues (and even if it continues 4 out of the next 5 games), they'll be in a prime position to make a serious run next year.

Even if this team goes 10-6 or 11-5 and misses the playoffs, 2010 will have been a HUGE success and will have far exceeded expectations.

A fucking men.

BigMeatballDave
11-29-2010, 05:34 PM
Why are we still talking about Cassel when we should be talking about the defense and special teams problems??Probably because Cassel plays the most important position on the field.

DaneMcCloud
11-29-2010, 05:34 PM
I will definitely have to remember this part of the quote.I can remember a thousand discussions in which all of our wins and good seasons under DV and in the 90's meant shit cause we didn't win a playoff game or the SB.:hmmm:

The difference being that this team has been built through the draft, whereas the Vermeil teams were cut and paste teams made to "Win Now".

If this team doesn't "Win Now", there's next year and the following year and the following year. The players driving this team, for the most part, haven't hit their prime.

That's why it's completely different.

JASONSAUTO
11-29-2010, 05:34 PM
If you go back and read those posts, it was said that I expected him h=to have a solid year statistically.

As we've discussed ad nauseum around here, watching the games and determining how those stats were arrived upon is important.

so, again, you predicted that he would have a shot at breaking the franchise record for TD passes this year?

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 05:35 PM
so, again, you predicted that he would have a shot at breaking the franchise record for TD passes this year?

While only throwing 8 picks

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:35 PM
What OTWP mean here, and I agree, is we hope he can do it. Its not a matter of IF, but WHEN. Regardless of how well Cassel is playing now, will he be able to come thru when some D shuts the run down?

Exactly.

Unless people want to live in a fantasy world where we run for 200 yards a game in the playoffs.

Honestly, I'm shocked more teams haven't sold out against the run and tried to make Cassel beat them.

The Bad Guy
11-29-2010, 05:35 PM
It's exactly what was happening until the Arizona game.

Dude seemed to flip the switch racking up garbage yards in Denver.

Your last paragraph is what has happened the past two weeks - not the entire season, although he's been good about not taking sacks all year.

He was pretty rock solid against Houston and San Francisco too.

The only games where he really sucked were against the Chargers, Browns and Colts.

Bane
11-29-2010, 05:35 PM
The difference being that this team has been built through the draft, whereas the Vermeil teams were cut and paste teams made to "Win Now".

If this team doesn't "Win Now", there's next year and the following year and the following year. The players driving this team, for the most part, haven't hit their prime.

That's why it's completely different.

I can agree with that,but I already see 2010 as a big success.Yeah we have a long way to go,but we're definitely tons better already.

Buehler445
11-29-2010, 05:36 PM
Good thoughts OTW. Hopefully your finals go well, and FUCK back injuries. Fuck them in the fucking facehole. They suck. Hopefully yours is minor and easily recovered from. Best wishes my friend.

I really can't disagree with much you say, except maybe the handshake thing. My take is he should have done it, but it's not that big of a deal. Much to do about nothing I think.

Cassel is an enigma. I have no idea what to think of him. I KNOW he was fucking abysmal for all of last year and much of this year, and then rocks the fuck out against 2 mediocre to below average teams. I truly hope he plays like this consistently, but I still have 20 or so games where he sucked ass to feed my skepticism. Life would be OUTSTANDING if we could count on him for performances like last week.

JASONSAUTO
11-29-2010, 05:37 PM
The Cassel of Weeks 11 and 12 don't resemble anything we've seen of Cassel previously - in KC or NE.

.

i disagree, did you watch all of his pat games? while he looks to be better now he did a lot of the same things there in most of his games started.

the difference is that he is now dropping back from under center. the throws, the mobility to move and run downfield( remember he was 2nd in qb rushing yards that year), and the reads.

Bearcat
11-29-2010, 05:37 PM
I know baseball is different than Football, but the estimated number of wins was 70 for the Padres, they won 90 and just missed the playoffs.

It wasn't feel good or anything, in fact it felt pretty bad.

Top that with the fact that they are probably going to suck next year, and that argument pretty much loses all validity.

The only thing that will make you guys happy is a playoff birth, not "moral victories."

Not at all... I've seen the Chiefs make the playoffs. I don't really care if they make it this year. I want to see something I haven't seen since I was a f***ing preteen -- multiple playoff wins in a single postseason.

Is that going to happen this year? No. So, if they make the playoffs, fine... it'll be a nice surprise and probably another home game. If not, I'll look forward to next season just as much as I would had they made it.

FFS, I'm ready to do something more than spend the holiday season talking about the playoffs, just to see them go 0-1.... I'd think everyone else here would be, too.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:39 PM
He was pretty rock solid against Houston and San Francisco too.

The only games where he really sucked were against the Chargers, Browns and Colts.

Lest we forget him having the opportunity to run down the clock and seal a win against Houston, only to fail.

You're right about SF, though he had the benefit of a running game breaking 200, IIRC.

Again, statistically, he may have had a "solid" game.

Coming through when it matters most is more important to me than stats.

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 05:39 PM
the difference is that he is now dropping back from under center.

Being able to drop back from center without getting hit every play has been nice this season for sure. Partially he should get credit for getting rid of the ball faster, but credit to the O-Line which has played better this season .

We need to keep up on the player acquisition on the O-line and never let it slip back to the shambles it had been in for a few seasons.

JASONSAUTO
11-29-2010, 05:41 PM
Being able to drop back from center without getting hit every play has been nice this season for sure. Partially he should get credit for getting rid of the ball faster, but credit to the O-Line which has played better this season (more like).

We need to keep up on the player acquisition on the O-line and never let it slip back to the shambles it had been in for a few seasons.

cassel and the oline should get plenty of credit IMO.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:41 PM
Good thoughts OTW. Hopefully your finals go well, and FUCK back injuries. Fuck them in the fucking facehole. They suck. Hopefully yours is minor and easily recovered from. Best wishes my friend.

I really can't disagree with much you say, except maybe the handshake thing. My take is he should have done it, but it's not that big of a deal. Much to do about nothing I think.

Cassel is an enigma. I have no idea what to think of him. I KNOW he was fucking abysmal for all of last year and much of this year, and then rocks the fuck out against 2 mediocre to below average teams. I truly hope he plays like this consistently, but I still have 20 or so games where he sucked ass to feed my skepticism. Life would be OUTSTANDING if we could count on him for performances like last week.

1) Thanks.

2) Not that big of a deal to me, either. Just not how I would have handled it.

3) Exactly.

Bearcat
11-29-2010, 05:42 PM
And I agree with the Cassel comments in the OP... I don't think it's being hard on Cassel. I think he's done what everyone has wanted to see him accomplish so far this season... he's improving and has put together a couple of really good games. We just want to see more progress, which means going from impressive wins against NFCW teams to playing well against division rivals.

Yeah, asking him to carry the team on his back to victory in 2 weeks at SD if the Chiefs run for < 50 yards is a bit much, and if he did that, I'll rethink the possibility of winning multiple playoff games this year..... so let's shoot for somewhere between "don't shit the bed" and "print 'em!" for this month's expectations. ;)

Detoxing
11-29-2010, 05:46 PM
Good Luck with your finals OTW58.

And like always, i agree with most of what you said. except for the Haley part. Fuck the donks.

FAX
11-29-2010, 05:46 PM
And I agree with the Cassel comments in the OP... I don't think it's being hard on Cassel. I think he's done what everyone has wanted to see him accomplish so far this season... he's improving and has put together a couple of really good games. We just want to see more progress, which means going from impressive wins against NFCW teams to playing well against division rivals.

Yeah, asking him to carry the team on his back to victory in 2 weeks at SD if the Chiefs run for < 50 yards is a bit much, and if he did that, I'll rethink the possibility of winning multiple playoff games this year..... so let's shoot for somewhere between "don't shit the bed" and "print 'em!" for this month's expectations. ;)

The most strangest, weirdest, troublingest part of the Cassel Conundrum is the fact that we now know that he is capable of ...

1. Going through progressions.
2. Pocket awareness.
3. Making critical plays (third down, under pressure, hot read, etc.).
4. Accuracy.

A month ago, I would have argued that he was unable to do those things. Now ... ?

Can he do it consistently? That's the question.

FAX

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 05:47 PM
The most strangest, weirdest, troublingest part of the Cassel Conundrum is the fact that we now know that he is capable of ...

1. Going through progressions.
2. Pocket awareness.
3. Making critical plays (third down, under pressure, hot read, etc.).
4. Accuracy.



DAre I add one?

5. Capable of a pretty good zip on the ball

DeezNutz
11-29-2010, 05:48 PM
The most strangest, weirdest, troublingest part of the Cassel Conundrum is the fact that we now know that he is capable of ...

1. Going through progressions.
2. Pocket awareness.
3. Making critical plays (third down, under pressure, hot read, etc.).
4. Accuracy.

A month ago, I would have argued that he was unable to do those things. Now ... ?

Can he do it consistently? That's the question.

FAX

(albeit against one of the worst secondaries in the league)

Fuck yes there's progress, and this is great.

Short Leash Hootie
11-29-2010, 05:48 PM
I agree. I think that without a doubt, the Chiefs should beat Denver, St. Louis, Tennessee and Oakland. I'm most concerned about the St. Louis game because they're a very well coached team with a very, very good quarterback but in the grand scheme of things, the Chiefs should win.

More to your point, I believe that the Chiefs could go into San Diego with a healthy squad and their "A" game but lose the game, which would be a bummer.

yeah they are SO well coached that as a team with nothing to lose they shelled up and damn near gave the game away...

we have the best coaching staff in the NFL (other than New England of course)

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:49 PM
Good Luck with your finals OTW58.

And like always, i agree with most of what you said. except for the Haley part. Fuck the donks.

Just curious, and not singling you out, because I bet a lot of people here said that when it happened, but...

Would you have been OK with it had it not been McDaniels?

What about a guy like Tomlin, Harbaugh or Caldwell?

Something tells me more people would have disapproved.

Short Leash Hootie
11-29-2010, 05:50 PM
Why does anyone care?

Haley is a passionate guy...he made poor judgment in the heat of the moment...and apologized for it.

The players love him, he has turned Dwayne Bowe into a mega superstar, and he appears as if he's the next big coach in the NFL...

So get over it. Christ.

JASONSAUTO
11-29-2010, 05:51 PM
Just curious, and not singling you out, because I bet a lot of people here said that when it happened, but...

Would you have been OK with it had it not been McDaniels?

What about a guy like Tomlin, Harbaugh or Caldwell?

Something tells me more people would have disapproved.

mcdaniels is on a whole lower level than those others you mentioned.


RESPECT. key word.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 05:51 PM
Why does anyone care?

Haley is a passionate guy...he made poor judgment in the heat of the moment...and apologized for it.

The players love him, he has turned Dwayne Bowe into a mega superstar, and he appears as if he's the next big coach in the NFL...

So get over it. Christ.

If you bothered to read, I said it's not that big of a deal.

Good to see you're still making arguments that aren't there. I've really missed that.

The Bad Guy
11-29-2010, 05:54 PM
Lest we forget him having the opportunity to run down the clock and seal a win against Houston, only to fail.

You're right about SF, though he had the benefit of a running game breaking 200, IIRC.

Again, statistically, he may have had a "solid" game.

Coming through when it matters most is more important to me than stats.

I'll never, ever understand this line of thinking. If the freaking defense didn't have a monsterous 4th quarter collapse against Houston, Cassel's not on any hook for that game at all. It's like people around here want to constantly give the defense a pass in those situations. I don't understand it.

You show me a QB that can win without a running game. Rivers wouldn't nearly be as effective (and he wasn't with Mathews) if Tolbert wasn't putting up good numbers. Peyton Manning without a running game is getting his shit pushed in.

Short Leash Hootie
11-29-2010, 05:54 PM
If you bothered to read, I said it's not that big of a deal.

Good to see you're still making arguments that aren't there. I've really missed that.

Good to see you're still a moron...I find it quite enjoyable how unenjoyable this season must be for you...

It's a damn shame "class" prevents you from posting more...

Do you, Hamas and Mecca all take the same courses?

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2010, 05:56 PM
Good to see you're still a moron...I find it quite enjoyable how unenjoyable this season must be for you...

It's a damn shame "class" prevents you from posting more...

Do you, Hamas and Mecca all take the same courses?

WHERE'S MY MONEY, BITCH?

http://i51.tinypic.com/k1chd.jpg

The Bad Guy
11-29-2010, 05:56 PM
If you bothered to read, I said it's not that big of a deal.

Good to see you're still making arguments that aren't there. I've really missed that.

I don't think he's making an argument that isn't there.

I think in light of this shit coming out against McDaniels last week, that could have had something to do with it. The audio says there's tons of shit being talked about you, or something along those lines.

It's possible that Haley knew, and the coaching community knew, about the taped practice.

It's not like Haley refused to shake fucking Tony Dungy's hand here.

Pawnmower
11-29-2010, 05:57 PM
WHERE'S MY MONEY, BITCH?

http://i51.tinypic.com/k1chd.jpg

He will forward you a paycheck as soon as I get my money back from WPI that I requested after reading your "Fraud" article.

Detoxing
11-29-2010, 05:59 PM
Just curious, and not singling you out, because I bet a lot of people here said that when it happened, but...

Would you have been OK with it had it not been McDaniels?

What about a guy like Tomlin, Harbaugh or Caldwell?

Something tells me more people would have disapproved.

I would have disapproved if it were not the Donkeys and Haley was just being a crybaby. However, I don't believe for a minute that it had anything to do with running up the score. You can't bitch about running up the score when they didn't run up the score.

Haley's comment, "There's a lot of shit being said about you" was further reinforced when McDipshit got caught cheating. Im going to assume that Haley's comments had something to do with knowing about some things that McDipshit was doing.

And if he knew a coach was cheating, whether it be McDumbass or Tomlen, I wouldn't have a problem with Haley not shaking his hand.

FAX
11-29-2010, 06:01 PM
Just curious, and not singling you out, because I bet a lot of people here said that when it happened, but...

Would you have been OK with it had it not been McDaniels?

What about a guy like Tomlin, Harbaugh or Caldwell?

Something tells me more people would have disapproved.

With all respect, Mr. OnTheWarpath58, that's creating a strawman, then using it to try and scare all the little trick 'n treaters to make them pee their pants, drop their candy bags, and race home in the dark and, on the way, run headlong into a metal light pole causing their brains to spew out their ears.

Tomlin, Harbaugh, and Cardwell are not McDeMille.

Say you're walking down the street and you see a nice, crisp, clean 100 dollar bill. Most people would pick it up. However, say you're walking down the street and you see a big, deep, nasty, puddle of slime. Few people are going to stick their hand down there to see if there's any cash submerged in the putrid slime water.

It's more like that.

FAX

BigMeatballDave
11-29-2010, 06:01 PM
I'll never, ever understand this line of thinking. If the freaking defense didn't have a monsterous 4th quarter collapse against Houston, Cassel's not on any hook for that game at all. It's like people around here want to constantly give the defense a pass in those situations. I don't understand it.

You show me a QB that can win without a running game. Rivers wouldn't nearly be as effective (and he wasn't with Mathews) if Tolbert wasn't putting up good numbers. Peyton Manning without a running game is getting his shit pushed in.You are exactly right. The D collapsed in the 4th quarter. However, I believe that as the QB, and the leader, that was an opportunity for him to take over and salvage the win. He didnt.

Cassel didnt lose that game, but he didnt make the necessary plays to win, either. The D CLEARLY lost that game.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 06:01 PM
I'll never, ever understand this line of thinking. If the freaking defense didn't have a monsterous 4th quarter collapse against Houston, Cassel's not on any hook for that game at all. It's like people around here want to constantly give the defense a pass in those situations. I don't understand it.

You show me a QB that can win without a running game. Rivers wouldn't nearly be as effective (and he wasn't with Mathews) if Tolbert wasn't putting up good numbers. Peyton Manning without a running game is getting his shit pushed in.

Ben Roethlisberger, any year prior to this one.

And on the subject of Ben, I recall his defense giving up 16 points in the last 7 minutes of the Super Bowl against Arizona.

Here's the difference:

One got the job done on the biggest stage the game has to offer, and the other didn't in a regular season game that would have given us a bit of cushion right now.

Cassel's job at that moment was to grind out the clock, end in a victory formation, and preserve a W.

When Cassel failed to do his job, it was on the defense to keep Houston from scoring. They failed as well.

I don't see where I'm giving either a pass.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 06:02 PM
You are exactly right. The D collapsed in the 4th quarter. However, I believe that as the QB, and the leader, that was an opportunity for him to take over and salvage the win. He didnt.

Cassel didnt lose that game, but he didnt make the necessary plays to win, either. The D CLEARLY lost that game.

Beat me to it.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 06:04 PM
I don't think he's making an argument that isn't there.

I think in light of this shit coming out against McDaniels last week, that could have had something to do with it. The audio says there's tons of shit being talked about you, or something along those lines.

It's possible that Haley knew, and the coaching community knew, about the taped practice.

It's not like Haley refused to shake fucking Tony Dungy's hand here.

Considering I said it wasn't that big of a deal to me, yet he still goes out of his way to say, "get over it," then yeah, I'd say he's inventing an argument.

I don't give a shit either way. Like I said in the OP, it's not what I would have done, but it's over and done with.

And like I said in the OP, whatever McKid is accused of doing has no bearing on Haley.

We didn't get our ass kicked in that game because Denver videotaped the Niners a week prior.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 06:07 PM
Good to see you're still a moron...I find it quite enjoyable how unenjoyable this season must be for you...

It's a damn shame "class" prevents you from posting more...

Do you, Hamas and Mecca all take the same courses?

Considering my last post prior to today was prior to the Oakland and Denver debacles, I fail to understand the connection you're trying miserably to make.

Nice try, though.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 06:10 PM
With all respect, Mr. OnTheWarpath58, that's creating a strawman, then using it to try and scare all the little trick 'n treaters to make them pee their pants, drop their candy bags, and race home in the dark and, on the way, run headlong into a metal light pole causing their brains to spew out their ears.

Tomlin, Harbaugh, and Cardwell are not McDeMille.

Say you're walking down the street and you see a nice, crisp, clean 100 dollar bill. Most people would pick it up. However, say you're walking down the street and you see a big, deep, nasty, puddle of slime. Few people are going to stick their hand down there to see if there's any cash submerged in the putrid slime water.

It's more like that.

FAX

Dino Ciccarelli.

Claude Lemieux.

Hockey fans will get it, the rest can google it.

Not that it will change anyone's mind, nor do I intend it to.

DeezNutz
11-29-2010, 06:13 PM
While I agree that Haley should have shaken the douche's hand, I would have preferred, after the fact, if he hadn't offered the phony (and obviously forced) apology.

On the other hand, I suppose this could have created a distraction around the team, which would have been terrible, so he's in a bad situation.

Compromise: shake the hand AND talk some shit.

SNR
11-29-2010, 06:15 PM
While I agree that Haley should have shaken the douche's hand, I would have preferred, after the fact, if he hadn't offered the phony (and obviously forced) apology.

On the other hand, I suppose this could have created a distraction around the team, which would have been terrible, so he's in a bad situation.

Compromise: shake the hand AND talk some shit.Have YOU ever been a head coach in the NFL? I mean, it sounds like you have been the way you're telling Haley to do his job.

You and the other drafturbators are so cruel and mean and you hate Coach Haley and the Chiefs

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 06:17 PM
Have YOU ever been a head coach in the NFL? I mean, it sounds like you have been the way you're telling Haley to do his job.

You and the other drafturbators are so cruel and mean and you hate Coach Haley and the Chiefs

LMAO

DeezNutz
11-29-2010, 06:19 PM
Have YOU ever been a head coach in the NFL? I mean, it sounds like you have been the way you're telling Haley to do his job.

You and the other drafturbators are so cruel and mean and you hate Coach Haley and the Chiefs

I keep Aloe products near my favorite jinx chair.

bevischief
11-29-2010, 06:29 PM
Been wondering where you have been lately... Good luck on the finals.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 06:31 PM
Been wondering where you have been lately... Good luck on the finals.

Thanks. I'm busting my ass to pull a 4.0 taking 18 credit hours. Probably not a big deal to most of you, but would be a huge accomplishment for me.

I've never had a semester where I'm looking more forward to Holiday Break than this one.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-29-2010, 06:34 PM
Where I will say I was in concert with OTWP is that the improvement in Cassel's stats would delude most into thinking that he's the solution at QB. Lest we forget this entire draft and offseason was about "fixing the QB".

Maybe Weis fixed Cassel. Maybe Cassel didn't need fixing. Or maybe the schedule fixed him.

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2010, 06:36 PM
Where I will say I was in concert with OTWP is that the improvement in Cassel's stats would delude most into thinking that he's the solution at QB. Lest we forget this entire draft and offseason was about "fixing the QB".

Maybe Weis fixed Cassel. Maybe Cassel didn't need fixing. Or maybe the schedule fixed him.

12 of Cassel's 22 TDs are against the NFC West and the Houston Texans, the worst pass defense in NFL history.

4 more are garbage time TDs against the Broncos.

That's five games and 16 TD passes.

6 TD passes in 6 other games.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-29-2010, 06:38 PM
12 of Cassel's 22 TDs are against the NFC West and the Houston Texans, the worst pass defense in NFL history.

4 more are garbage time TDs against the Broncos.

That's five games and 16 TD passes.

6 TD passes in 6 other games.

You know where I stand on this. I said the same about his 2008 stats. That said, all QBs throw TDs in bunches. Even Brady cooled off significantly in 2007 down the stretch. Furthermore, throwing a TD pass on a play action fake to a wide open receiver is nice, but it's not necessarily indicative of the quality of play.

The Bad Guy
11-29-2010, 06:39 PM
Ben Roethlisberger, any year prior to this one.

And on the subject of Ben, I recall his defense giving up 16 points in the last 7 minutes of the Super Bowl against Arizona.

Here's the difference:

One got the job done on the biggest stage the game has to offer, and the other didn't in a regular season game that would have given us a bit of cushion right now.

Cassel's job at that moment was to grind out the clock, end in a victory formation, and preserve a W.

When Cassel failed to do his job, it was on the defense to keep Houston from scoring. They failed as well.

I don't see where I'm giving either a pass.

Wrong.

Roethlisburger's first SB was from the 2005 season. His offense ran for 2100 yards. From 2004 Ben's rookie year, until 2008, the running game was around the 2k mark every year. The running game didn't go to complete shit until around 2008 season.

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2010, 06:42 PM
You know where I stand on this. I said the same about his 2008 stats.

The NFC West is also responsible for our last fraudulent playoff season.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 06:43 PM
Wrong.

Roethlisburger's first SB was from the 2005 season. His offense ran for 2100 yards. From 2004 Ben's rookie year, until 2008, the running game was around the 2k mark every year. The running game didn't go to complete shit until around 2008 season.

My mistake.

So basically, he won a SB in a year in which they ran for around 1600 yards, good for bottom-third in the league.

And I'm not sure how that discredits the rest of my post.

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 06:44 PM
You know where I stand on this. I said the same about his 2008 stats. That said, all QBs throw TDs in bunches. Even Brady cooled off significantly in 2007 down the stretch. Furthermore, throwing a TD pass on a play action fake to a wide open receiver is nice, but it's not necessarily indicative of the quality of play.

QFT.

Renegade
11-29-2010, 06:47 PM
Oh. Okay. As long as there were other thoughts on other subjects.

I was at the Denver game, and I can't reveal most of my thoughts from that game.

What kind of thoughts does the rainman have at a Donkey game? I'll bet it involved some type of poll

Nightfyre
11-29-2010, 06:57 PM
I will say, with respect to Cassel, I still don't believe he can be a franchise QB. But now I have tangible hope that he could. That being said, if he continues to play at a high level such as he did against the Seahawks (by far his best game as a Chief) we could be comfortable developing a young QB behind him while we get the other pieces in place. Also, I still vote for somehow moving up and getting Andrew Luck because I think he's a once-in-a-decade package.

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2010, 07:03 PM
That being said, if he continues to play at a high level such as he did against the Seahawks (by far his best game as a Chief) we could be comfortable developing a young QB behind him while we get the other pieces in place.

There will be no development of a young passer.

Cassel is going to be our quarterback for the duration of his contract.

WilliamTheIrish
11-29-2010, 07:04 PM
Furthermore, throwing a TD pass on a play action fake to a wide open receiver is nice, but it's not necessarily indicative of the quality of play

I can agree with that when you use this statement over the course of an entire season.

But yesterday he was damn good. (And I know that wasn't your argument).

Nightfyre
11-29-2010, 07:05 PM
There will be no development of a young passer.

Cassel is going to be our quarterback for the duration of his contract.

He can be the QB for the duration of the contract, so long as we are grooming a young QB or two behind him (under the tutelage of Charlie Weis.)

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2010, 07:07 PM
He can be the QB for the duration of the contract, so long as we are grooming a young QB or two behind him (under the tutelage of Charlie Weis.)

I'd imagine we will be "grooming" a quarterback behind him as much as the Patriots were grooming Cassel behind Brady.

We won't be spending a high pick on a QB.

The Bad Guy
11-29-2010, 07:08 PM
My mistake.

So basically, he won a SB in a year in which they ran for around 1600 yards, good for bottom-third in the league.

And I'm not sure how that discredits the rest of my post.

I don't know, maybe like saying Ben never had the benefit of a ground game to prove he'd be the exception to this.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-29-2010, 07:10 PM
I can agree with that when you use this statement over the course of an entire season.

But yesterday he was damn good. (And I know that wasn't your argument).

That is true. Maybe he's Steve Young, a late bloomer. Or he could be Steve Beuerlein.

JASONSAUTO
11-29-2010, 07:42 PM
That is true. Maybe he's Steve Young, a late bloomer. Or he could be Steve Beuerlein. at least we are wondering now. wasnt that way before for some
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chiefzilla1501
11-29-2010, 10:34 PM
Things have been nuts lately for the OTW household as of late - between family, a back injury, the holidays and upcoming final exams - I don't think I've posted in a month. I haven't even had time to lurk. Thought I'd pop in and say hi, as this is the last chance I'll likely have until finals are over.

I'm sure I'll get ripped for saying anything remotely negative, regardless of what I say that's positive, but **** it.

Losing to Oakland AND Denver may very well keep us out of the playoffs when it's all said and done - which depresses the hell out of me. Especially after seeing a rookie QB go into Denver yesterday with no running game and beat the Broncos. Had we taken care of business in even one of those games, the SD game in two weeks wouldn't be nearly as important. Now, assuming we don't trip up somewhere else we shouldn't, it appears that SD game is going to determine our fate. I hope the Chargers from September show up, because the Chargers that haven't lost a December game in ages looks ****ing nasty right now. They destroyed the Colts in all facets of the game last night. The Lightning Bolts are coming...

But first things first...

Holy shit, we won a ****ing road game against a decent team. Spare me the "Cleveland" comments, as that team was absolute garbage when we played them- they're a completely different team now.

Matt Cassel has played his best two games as a Chief the past two weeks, IMO. He's been decisive with the ball, he's had solid pocket presence and he's been much more accurate. So I give credit where credit is due.

However...

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about him being able to play at that level in a game in which the opposition shuts down or limits the running game. And I fully expect him to get an opportunity when we face the Chargers in two weeks.

We've had 3 games this year in which we've been held under 135 yards rushing.

We've lost all three.

Show me you can carry this team on your back if necessary, Matt.

Moving on...

I'm sure this place was all over the map regarding the Haley non-handshake. Call me old-school, and maybe it's the hockey player in me, but I shake the hand of the opponent regardless of what is said or done. If Todd refused to shake because he thinks McKid ran up the score, that's ridiculous. Christ, Haley was going for two after our late meaningless TD's. If you don't like it, stop them. And if he snubbed him because of the reports of McKid pulling a Belichick, that's even more childish. It's not Todd's place - it's a league issue. Show the same grace and class in losing as you do in winning. But it's over now, and should make Sunday's game a wee bit more interesting, to say the least.

Dwayne Bowe is back to the D-Bowe of his 1st and 2nd year, plus some. Loving it.

Tamba Hali, however, has been damn near invisible the past three weeks. This has to change if the Chiefs have any chance of not only making the playoffs, but potentially winning a game should they get there.

Speaking of playoffs...

Like I said early on, those losses to Oakland and Denver are soul-crushers. Based on how they've played of late, their history of owning the month of December and the ridiculously easy schedule they have left, it's hard to see the Chargers dropping a game - unless it's to us.

Which means we pretty much have to win out to make sure we're not on the outside looking in.

There are three games that will/could give us trouble, IMO.

Denver, SD, and STL.

I'm willing to bet very few agree with Denver or STL, but if we don't generate a pass rush against either, it could get hairy - especially this weekend if Flowers is out. And I think Cassel is going to have to have the game of his life against SD, because I think they can, and will shut down our running game. The next five weeks will be very, very interesting, that's for sure. I hope these guys are up to the challenge.

Hope everyone had a happy and safe Thanksgiving.

Go Chiefs.

OTWP, well written. What has really turned me around about the Seattle and Arizona game isn't his production, but how he did it. I imagine a lot of people here too. Here's how I respond to some of these. I thought he threw very well against Oakland when the Chiefs were shut down in the running game and to Cassel's credit, in the second half of the Seattle game, the Seahawks were not loading nearly as many guys in the box and he was still throwing very effectively. Also should point out that against Seattle, I thought Cassel looked calm and collective even when the game was a lot closer than it should have been. When the game was 21-17, I expected Cassel to start panicking and start sailing balls over his players' heads. He didn't. Even though Richardson blew a few pass rushes, he was calm and composed in the pocket.

Here's what I really liked. Pocket presence is a million times better--he not only smells the rush, he also has found spots in the pocket to move in. He made some brilliant audibles on a few plays and you could tell he was really finding his hot routes. Even in the face of pressure, he firmly planted his feet--earlier in the year, when he got nervous, his footwork was all over the place which I think is a large part of why he was sailing passes. He was looking at multiple receivers and did a great job of going with his checkdown. On a lot of passes to Bowe, you'll see that he wasn't even the primary option and he found him anyway.

So yeah, agree he needs to prove it against top competition. But he did stuff the last two weeks that he never did in any game prior, whether that was duds like Buffalo or Indy or even productive games like Houston or Jacksonville. Cassel has been a totally different QB the last two games (and I would throw in Oakland too).

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2010, 10:43 PM
OTWP, well written. What has really turned me around about the Seattle and Arizona game isn't his production, but how he did it. I imagine a lot of people here too. Here's how I respond to some of these. I thought he threw very well against Oakland when the Chiefs were shut down in the running game and to Cassel's credit, in the second half of the Seattle game, the Seahawks were not loading nearly as many guys in the box and he was still throwing very effectively. Also should point out that against Seattle, I thought Cassel looked calm and collective even when the game was a lot closer than it should have been. When the game was 21-17, I expected Cassel to start panicking and start sailing balls over his players' heads. He didn't. Even though Richardson blew a few pass rushes, he was calm and composed in the pocket.

Here's what I really liked. Pocket presence is a million times better--he not only smells the rush, he also has found spots in the pocket to move in. He made some brilliant audibles on a few plays and you could tell he was really finding his hot routes. Even in the face of pressure, he firmly planted his feet--earlier in the year, when he got nervous, his footwork was all over the place which I think is a large part of why he was sailing passes. He was looking at multiple receivers and did a great job of going with his checkdown. On a lot of passes to Bowe, you'll see that he wasn't even the primary option and he found him anyway.

So yeah, agree he needs to prove it against top competition. But he did stuff the last two weeks that he never did in any game prior, whether that was duds like Buffalo or Indy or even productive games like Houston or Jacksonville. Cassel has been a totally different QB the last two games (and I would throw in Oakland too).

Agree with everything but linking his Oakland performance to the conversation.

He's been a completely different player the past two weeks.

chiefzilla1501
11-30-2010, 12:52 AM
Agree with everything but linking his Oakland performance to the conversation.

He's been a completely different player the past two weeks.

For the record, I still agree that we need to bring in a QB no matter what. And I do agree that he needs to show what he can do against the big boys. But if he keeps this up, the good news is that we can probably look at a second rounder like Ponder or Stanzi instead of reaching in the first (especially since I don't think the QB class outside of Luck is anything that impressive).

Here's another option... if Carolina gets the #1 pick, which I think they will, there's no way they pass on Luck. Is it possible that the Chiefs can steal Clausen from the Panthers for a 3rd or a 4th? If so, I'd take that in a heartbeat and then groom him.

Daru
11-30-2010, 01:46 AM
What he said is excellent. I totally agree. I like Cassel as it is now compared to its usual failure. We must destroy the Broncos!

milkman
11-30-2010, 09:41 AM
What OTWP mean here, and I agree, is we hope he can do it. Its not a matter of IF, but WHEN. Regardless of how well Cassel is playing now, will he be able to come thru when some D shuts the run down?

Expecting most QBs to carry a team when they can't run the ball against playoff calibre opponents is asking a bit much.

Now that Manning's protection is breaking own and he's getting pressured, we are seeing a guy that needs a running game to help him.

He was pretty rock solid against Houston and San Francisco too.

The only games where he really sucked were against the Chargers, Browns and Colts.

He played a solid second half against the Browns even though they weren't finding teh end zone.

That Houston loss is on the defense, but if Cassel makes one good pass late in that game on a third down play, the chiefs win.

I actually see the Oakland game in which, given a similar situation, Cassel did make a good throw that was dropped, and that was a sign of growth.

i disagree, did you watch all of his pat games? while he looks to be better now he did a lot of the same things there in most of his games started.

the difference is that he is now dropping back from under center. the throws, the mobility to move and run downfield( remember he was 2nd in qb rushing yards that year), and the reads.

I think people overlooked this post.

You and I talked a lot about those games as we were watching the Patriot replays over the summer, and one of the things that I tried to impress on you was teh fact that Cassel looked like an entirely different QB when playing out of the spread as opposed to playing under center and dropping back.

I really was concerned that he was nothing more than a spread QB who, after years of practice in a pro set, didn't play well out of a pro set.

He has made huge strides this year in improving as a pro set QB, and these last two games it seems like it has just really clicked.

Ben Roethlisberger, any year prior to this one.

And on the subject of Ben, I recall his defense giving up 16 points in the last 7 minutes of the Super Bowl against Arizona.

Here's the difference:

One got the job done on the biggest stage the game has to offer, and the other didn't in a regular season game that would have given us a bit of cushion right now.

Cassel's job at that moment was to grind out the clock, end in a victory formation, and preserve a W.

When Cassel failed to do his job, it was on the defense to keep Houston from scoring. They failed as well.

I don't see where I'm giving either a pass.

Roethlisberger is a different animal.

He's just big and strong and mobile, breaks tackles and makes plays.

We aren't going to see his kind but once a generation.

One of the things Weis has done through the years is continue to run the ball even when it is minimally effective.

He's starting to show play action more on first down so that it takes some of the pressure off the QB, and that type of playcalling can give your QB a chance to get some time to make plays from the pocket, as it did for Brady when Weis was New England.

patteeu
11-30-2010, 09:46 AM
My mistake. I thought I had you down for more TD's.

You thought you had you down for more TD's too, so that's two mistakes.

Thig Lyfe
11-30-2010, 07:16 PM
What he said is excellent. I totally agree. I like Cassel as it is now compared to its usual failure. We must destroy the Broncos!

n00b of the year or mult of the year?

Taking bets now...