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Count Alex's Losses
11-30-2010, 04:40 PM
Cassel proving to be difference-maker in K.C. (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14378799/cassel-proving-to-be-differencemaker-in-kc)

<table style="background: url(&quot;<a href=" http:="" sports.cbsimg.net="" images="" cbss="" ui5="" authors="" 70x60="" 8690.jpg&quot;"="" target="_blank"><tbody><tr><td style="padding-left: 80px;" valign="top">By Clark Judge (http://www.cbssports.com/columns/writers/judge)
CBSSports.com Senior Writer
Nov. 30, 2010

</td></tr></tbody></table> Let's get this out of the way up front and admit what we should know -- namely, that the Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/page/KC/kansas-city-chiefs) made the right move when they acquired quarterback Matt Cassel (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/552470/matt-cassel).

<table align="left" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="280"> <tbody><tr> <td width="280"> http://sports.cbsimg.net/u/photos/football/nfl/img14378801.jpg </td> <td width="15">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="280"> Matt Cassel's 2010 numbers put him among the league's elite passers. (Getty Images) </td> <td width="15">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> They thought they were getting someone who could stabilize the most important position in the game, and they did. They thought they were getting someone who was smart, accurate and reliable, and they did. They thought they were getting someone who could win, and they did. In short, they thought they were getting a quarterback they could trust. And they did.

Matt Cassel is having the best season of his career a year after he, the Chiefs and general manager Scott Pioli took heat for Cassel's underwhelming play -- with one local columnist so outraged that he characterized Cassel as "horrible."


Um, maybe not. Cassel has the Chiefs on top of the AFC West. He's won more games (7) in 11 starts than the club won the past two seasons (6). He hasn't lost at home. He leads the league in touchdown percentage. He's second only to Tom Brady in ratio of touchdowns-to-interceptions. And he's fourth overall in passer rating, ahead of luminaries like Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Matt Ryan.

"Matt Cassel keeps setting the bar higher and higher," coach Todd Haley said after Kansas City's latest victory.

I'll second that. It's not just that the Chiefs continue to win under Cassel's direction; it's what Cassel's done to put them in that position, and the envelope, please: Over his last seven starts Cassel has 18 touchdown passes and one interception. Let me repeat: 18 and 1, a ratio that is better than anyone -- including Tom Brady -- over that period, and tell me that shouldn't put this guy front and center of the national spotlight.

It should. Only it hasn't. And one reason it hasn't is because there's a lingering feeling that Kansas City is overachieving and, well, that the Chiefs will eventually get caught by San Diego anyway. I don't buy into the overachieving argument, but after watching San Diego dissect Indianapolis the other night I do believe the Chargers, not the Chiefs, are the team to beat in the AFC West -- basically because the schedule falls their way in December, a month where they have won their last 18.

But that's a projection. Let's look at what we know, and what we know is that Matt Cassel is everything Pioli and the Chiefs envisioned when they acquired him. OK, so it took offensive coordinator Charlie Weis and a system with which Cassel was comfortable for him to flourish. But that happens. It took Brees four seasons before he started to feel comfortable in San Diego.

No question about it, Cassel struggled last season, but let's be honest: There were an abundance of reasons. One was the change of offensive coordinators immediately prior to the season, with Cassel forced to learn on the fly. Another was the Chiefs' mistake-prone receivers, with Kansas City two flubs away from tying an unofficial record for most drops in a year (51). Still another was the team's inability to run the ball until Jamaal Charles (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/564952/jamaal-charles) stepped into the huddle midway through the schedule.

Now fast forward to 2010, with Weis refining Haley's system to add a few wrinkles that Cassel might have known or practiced when he was with New England. It was there that Cassel first became a starter, stepping into the lineup for the first time in nine years when Brady was hurt in the 2008 opener. And it was there he was supposed to flop. Only he didn't, leading the Patriots to an 11-5 finish.

Surprising? Yes. But that was the guy Kansas City thought it was getting when it traded for Cassel. And that is the guy it has.

Look, I don't know that kicked in this season, but it's hard to ignore the results. What I do know is that Haley worked with Cassel on being more precise in his drops within the pocket, and Cassel has responded. I also know that having the league's top-ranked running game -- with the Chiefs shredding Seattle for 270 yards -- has helped. And I know the emergence of wide receiver Dwayne Bowe (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/406856/dwayne-bowe) -- one of those guys who last season looked more like a backboard than a pass catcher -- has been a huge plus.

In the end, though, it comes back to Matt Cassel. The Chiefs had Larry Johnson to run the ball in 2007-08, and they couldn't win. They had Tony Gonzalez to catch it then, too, and they couldn't win. And they couldn't win because they didn't have someone, anyone, at quarterback to throw the right passes, avoid the big mistakes and make the smart decisions.
Now they do.

"I think he's an NFL starting quarterback you can win with and win championships with," Pioli said at training camp last summer. "Matt adjusted to a lot of change, showed his competitiveness, resiliency and his ability. Beyond the mental and emotional (aspect) and his competitiveness, he showed the physical ability to be able to win."

Pioli was right. Kansas City is not where it is today without Matt Cassel, and it's high time the club, its G.M., its head coach, its assistants and Matt Cassel himself are recognized for what is working with the Chiefs. And what is working is their quarterback.

Adding Matt Cassel not only was a good move; it was a necessary one. And it has the Chiefs where they haven't been in years. Good for them. Good for Pioli. And, most important, good for Matt Cassel.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 04:44 PM
Patiently waiting for all the folks that have barbecued Clark Judge over the years to pop in and say, "Great article."

Fruit Ninja
11-30-2010, 04:46 PM
lol, i wont say i like Judge or anything, but Cassel and Bowe are getting recognition. Slowly but surely its happening.

-King-
11-30-2010, 04:46 PM
Great Article!!

Guru
11-30-2010, 04:47 PM
I'm still not sold on him as the overall answer and I don't give a crap what the stats say. He had his best day as a Chief Sunday but that doesn't erase everything else.

jd1020
11-30-2010, 04:48 PM
I'll love Cassel when he plays a good, meaningful, game against an opponent outside of the NFCW.

Fruit Ninja
11-30-2010, 04:49 PM
I'm still not sold on him as the overall answer and I don't give a crap what the stats say. He had his best day as a Chief Sunday but that doesn't erase everything else.

whats everything else? he started off slow this season> So did Bowe. Down the stretch they started to heat the fuck up.

Last year was a disaster no matter what. That shit was just all thrown together hell of fast. That was still Herms lack of direction. Thats how i look at it.

I havent been a big Cassel fan. Go look in the game day threads n i ripped him hardcore, but i cant rip him anymore and not lately.

talastan
11-30-2010, 04:51 PM
I'm really kinda creeped out by all the recognition that Cassel and Bowe have gotten. I feel somewhat better when we are under the radar and not expected to do as well. Don't want the media buzz going to these young guy's heads.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 04:53 PM
Meh. I'll wait to see how these last 5 games go.

But, at least for the last few games, he's looking like he could develop into the man.

That's all I asked for when the season started. I just wanted him to show me there was a reason to believe in him. It looks like he starting to get it.

RustShack
11-30-2010, 04:53 PM
I'm still waiting for him to beat a good team on the road and\or make a comeback win when the run game is taken away.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 04:55 PM
NO WAY

He is "the most dangerous QB to his own team" and also a "fraud"

Right?

Hoover
11-30-2010, 04:55 PM
The one thing that he understates is the importance of Todd Haley. I know the NE connection is something that all reporters like to write about, but all Haley has done everywhere he's gone is produce pro-bowl wideouts. Haley's faith in Cassel plus the emergence of Bowe is why thing team is where its at.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 04:55 PM
I'm still waiting for him to beat a good team on the road and\or make a comeback win when the run game is taken away.

I'd rather him not have to make any comebacks at all. If he has to make a comeback, that probably means he fucked up somewhere in the game.

I want more games like the Seattle game. Hot out the gate and stay hot till time expires. Gimme 9 more of those this season.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 04:57 PM
STALE

Guru
11-30-2010, 05:00 PM
whats everything else? he started off slow this season> So did Bowe. Down the stretch they started to heat the **** up.

Last year was a disaster no matter what. That shit was just all thrown together hell of fast. That was still Herms lack of direction. Thats how i look at it.

I havent been a big Cassel fan. Go look in the game day threads n i ripped him hardcore, but i cant rip him anymore and not lately.

He only just had his most complete outing of the season and it was against the weak NFCW. Lets not crown his ass yet.

This week was probably the only week I had no complaints about the QB position.

Count Alex's Losses
11-30-2010, 05:02 PM
NO WAY

He is "the most dangerous QB to his own team" and also a "fraud"

Right?

Clark Judge doesn't watch the Chiefs every week. I guarantee you.

It's pretty clear he looked at some pretty stats, got a couple quotes and elaborated on his CHIEFS WERE RIGHT! PIOLI WAS RIGHT! CASSEL ROCKS! premise.

This is all exceedingly premature.

chasedude
11-30-2010, 05:02 PM
NO WAY

He is "the most dangerous QB to his own team" and also a "fraud"

Right?

:LOL:

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:03 PM
He only just had his most complete outing of the season and it was against the weak NFCW. Lets not crown his ass yet.

This week was probably the only week I had no complaints about the QB position.

ROFL

Funny you say that, my wife asked WTF was going on the past few weeks, I hadn't said anything about Cassel during the games. (Arizona, Seattle)

I told her that if he always played like this, she'd never hear a peep from me on gameday.

DaneMcCloud
11-30-2010, 05:05 PM
He only just had his most complete outing of the season and it was against the weak NFCW. Lets not crown his ass yet.

This week was probably the only week I had no complaints about the QB position.

He was good against Arizona as well.

Let's face it, guy: Matt Cassel is NOT the same player in Week 12 as he was in Week 1. He has improved throughout the season and as I've said in the past few days, at times it's been one step forward and two steps back.

But on Sunday, he looked off receivers, wasn't worried about the pass rush and play a nearly perfect game, which is something I thought he'd never accomplish. And I don't mean stats, I mean watching him play with my eyes.

I think there's a very good chance that he continues to ascend, thus proving he's a late bloomer. Worse things could happen than Matt Cassel growing into a Franchise QB at age 28.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 05:05 PM
He only just had his most complete outing of the season and it was against the weak NFCW. Lets not crown his ass yet.

This week was probably the only week I had no complaints about the QB position.


sucks to be you.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:05 PM
Clark Judge doesn't watch the Chiefs every week. I guarantee you.

It's pretty clear he looked at some pretty stats, got a couple quotes and elaborated on his CHIEFS WERE RIGHT! PIOLI WAS RIGHT! CASSEL ROCKS! premise.

This is all exceedingly premature.

22 TD's and 4 ints are great numbers no matter how you slice it. I understand that you still have a bitter taste in your mouth, but give credit where credit is due. He's obviously doing something right.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 05:05 PM
Clark Judge doesn't watch the Chiefs every week. I guarantee you.

It's pretty clear he looked at some pretty stats, got a couple quotes and elaborated on his CHIEFS WERE RIGHT! PIOLI WAS RIGHT! CASSEL ROCKS! premise.

This is all exceedingly premature.

I actually agree that it could be premature...However weren't YOU guilty of the same sort of prematurely spewing of CHIEFS WERE WRONG ! CASSEL SUCKS!!! type of posts?

He may be premature, but at least he wasn't proven wrong yet..unlike you.

Count Alex's Losses
11-30-2010, 05:06 PM
Let's face it, guy: Matt Cassel is NOT the same player in Week 13 as he was in Week 1.

I still say he turns back into a pumpkin against the Chargers.

We can't be this lucky.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:06 PM
Clark Judge doesn't watch the Chiefs every week. I guarantee you.

It's pretty clear he looked at some pretty stats, got a couple quotes and elaborated on his CHIEFS WERE RIGHT! PIOLI WAS RIGHT! CASSEL ROCKS! premise.

This is all exceedingly premature.

Judge is not different than the rest of the national media.

They see box scores and limited highlights, and think they are qualified to write a piece like this.

Hell, I read Easterbrook's TMQ on ESPN.com today, and he has Pioli's nuts so far down his throat, he wrote, "Not only is the undrafted-and-waived Ryan Lilja playing well for Kansas City but Ryan O'Callaghan, waived by New England, is having a fine year at offensive tackle."

ROFL

Count Alex's Losses
11-30-2010, 05:07 PM
I actually agree that it could be premature...However weren't YOU guilty of the same sort of prematurely spewing of CHIEFS WERE WRONG ! CASSEL SUCKS!!! type of posts?

He may be premature, but at least he wasn't proven wrong yet..unlike you.

Wins over NFC West teams do not prove that the Chiefs are not frauds.

They remain frauds until they make the playoffs and prove they belong in the playoffs.

DaneMcCloud
11-30-2010, 05:08 PM
I still say he turns back into a pumpkin against the Chargers.

We can't be this lucky.

Who cares? QB's are prone to having a bad day here and there.

Having a bad day against the Chargers won't erase the progress he's made this season.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:08 PM
I still say he turns back into a pumpkin against the Chargers.

We can't be this lucky.

That won't mean that he isn't making strides and getting better. SD made Manning look like ass. They're playing good all around D.

I'm expecting him to struggle against SD.

But he's getting better, and hopefully next season, he'll be ready.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:09 PM
Who cares? QB's are prone to having a bad day here and there.

Having a bad day against the Chargers won't erase the progress he's made this season.

Beat me to it.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 05:09 PM
They remain frauds until they make the playoffs and prove they belong in the playoffs.

You apparently still have no fucking clue what the word fraud means. That is pretty sad considering some of the people on WPI and CP have rammed dictionaries up your ass for the last few weeks and you still don't get it.

DaneMcCloud
11-30-2010, 05:09 PM
Wins over NFC West teams do not prove that the Chiefs are not frauds.

They remain frauds until they make the playoffs and prove they belong in the playoffs.

This is nonsense.

If they Chiefs win the division, they're not "frauds". If the Chiefs happen to make the playoffs at 11-5, they're not "frauds".

This is a young ascending team. It's not an old team put together for one last grasp.

And making the playoffs isn't a given for any team in the NFL, despite their pedigree.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:11 PM
Wins over NFC West teams do not prove that the Chiefs are not frauds.

They remain frauds until they make the playoffs and prove they belong in the playoffs.

That's retarded. Frauds by what standard? WE'll probably go 11-5 and miss the playoffs.

You under estimate how hard it is to win in the NFL. No win is guaranteed, especially for a team that only won 6 games on the last 2 seasons.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:11 PM
He was good against Arizona as well.

Let's face it, guy: Matt Cassel is NOT the same player in Week 12 as he was in Week 1. He has improved throughout the season and as I've said in the past few days, at times it's been one step forward and two steps back.

But on Sunday, he looked off receivers, wasn't worried about the pass rush and play a nearly perfect game, which is something I thought he'd never accomplish. And I don't mean stats, I mean watching him play with my eyes.

I think there's a very good chance that he continues to ascend, thus proving he's a late bloomer. Worse things could happen than Matt Cassel growing into a Franchise QB at age 28.

Dane, I agree with everything but the bolded text.

I don't see how playing two games like a legit, franchise QB means he has a "very good chance" he ascends to being a legit, franchise QB consistently.

I "hope" he continues to ascend, but I need to see a lot more evidence, primarily against good teams, on the road, carrying the team, etc before I claim he will.

Guru
11-30-2010, 05:12 PM
He was good against Arizona as well.

Let's face it, guy: Matt Cassel is NOT the same player in Week 12 as he was in Week 1. He has improved throughout the season and as I've said in the past few days, at times it's been one step forward and two steps back.

But on Sunday, he looked off receivers, wasn't worried about the pass rush and play a nearly perfect game, which is something I thought he'd never accomplish. And I don't mean stats, I mean watching him play with my eyes.

I think there's a very good chance that he continues to ascend, thus proving he's a late bloomer. Worse things could happen than Matt Cassel growing into a Franchise QB at age 28.
I don't disagree. He has improved as the season has progressed but, until these last two weeks, he hadn't really showed me anything that impressed me.

If we tear apart the Donkeys this week, as we should, and make an impressive showing against the Chargers, win or lose, then I will start giving him some praise.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 05:12 PM
And it has the Chiefs where they haven't been in years. Good for them. Good for Pioli. And, most important, good for Matt Cassel.

...and what about the fans who have waited for decades, Clark?

:facepalm:

Guru
11-30-2010, 05:12 PM
sucks to be you.

No argument from me today. I feel like shit today.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 05:13 PM
This is nonsense.

If they Chiefs win the division, they're not "frauds". If the Chiefs happen to make the playoffs at 11-5, they're not "frauds".

This is a young ascending team. It's not an old team put together for one last grasp.

And making the playoffs isn't a given for any team in the NFL, despite their pedigree.

Absolutely and I will go a step further. Even if they 'choke' and lose to SD and do not win the division...Guess what...

They're still NOT FRAUDS.

They would have had to have been favored to make the playoffs , and not do it in order to be frauds. NO ONE was thinking we would be in the playoff hunt....We have already beaten expectations for this team...Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for the Chiefs to be frauds...

Clay's continued use of that word, despite these things being pointed out to him makes him look like an utter imbecile...and a very stubborn one at that.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:13 PM
Dane, I agree with everything but the bolded text.

I don't see how playing two games like a legit, franchise QB means he has a "very good chance" he ascends to being a legit, franchise QB consistently.

I "hope" he continues to ascend, but I need to see a lot more evidence, primarily against good teams, on the road, carrying the team, etc before I claim he will.

Last year he couldn't make those plays against anyone. Even if it is the Donkeys, Cards and Seahags, he's still making considerable progress.

Fruit Ninja
11-30-2010, 05:13 PM
He only just had his most complete outing of the season and it was against the weak NFCW. Lets not crown his ass yet.

This week was probably the only week I had no complaints about the QB position.

we were playing with back ups at the RT and LT and he not only avoided terible blocking but made HUGE plays out of them. The spin out and the TD pass to Bowe. Seattle's Defense isnt that terrible and they supposedly have a good line. Cassel handled the pressure and made plays. Early in the season he wasnt really doing that. It didnt mattter who it was against. Early in the season we were winning in spite of Matt. Now its not like that.

NO one is crowning anyone yet. At least i am not, I am just saying he has played way way way above what i thought he would be at.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 05:14 PM
Who cares? QB's are prone to having a bad day here and there.

Having a bad day against the Chargers won't erase the progress he's made this season.

....got to give it up to Dane and Milkman, who have been extemely fair in this regard..

BigRock
11-30-2010, 05:15 PM
Judge used to do pro-KC articles all the time, and then he turned on a dime and got all pissy once Pioli got rid of Carl's old cronies.

Scott must have taken him out to dinner.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 05:15 PM
No argument from me today. I feel like shit today.


bummer...

Count Alex's Losses
11-30-2010, 05:15 PM
Seattle's Defense isnt that terrible.

It's awful.

One of the worst in the league.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 05:15 PM
....got to give it up to Dane and Milkman, who have been extemely fair in this regard..

Hard not be be fair with a huge foot in your mouth and a big helping of humble pie on the table...

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:16 PM
Who cares? QB's are prone to having a bad day here and there.

Having a bad day against the Chargers won't erase the progress he's made this season.

That won't mean that he isn't making strides and getting better. SD made Manning look like ass. They're playing good all around D.

I'm expecting him to struggle against SD.

But he's getting better, and hopefully next season, he'll be ready.

I like both of you guys, but the built-in excuses already?

There's no doubt Cassel is getting better.

But until he shows he can beat a good team - or beat a good team on the road - or win a game where he has to carry the team - you know the drill - there's no evidence to suggest he'll ever be good enough.

Then again, there are people here that swear up and down that Trent Green was capable of leading this team to a Lombardi Trophy based on stats, so I guess maybe what some of you expect from the QB position has lowered drastically compared to what a franchise QB actually is.

DeezNutz
11-30-2010, 05:17 PM
When I was making assertions that this team needed to be 8-8 or GTFO, many said these expectations were unreasonable.

Now, we have an opportunity to do much, much more and our expectations should accelerate, too.

That said, we've already met expectations of where this team should be in year 2, and we're almost certainly poised to exceed them.

DaneMcCloud
11-30-2010, 05:17 PM
Dane, I agree with everything but the bolded text.

I don't see how playing two games like a legit, franchise QB means he has a "very good chance" he ascends to being a legit, franchise QB consistently.

I "hope" he continues to ascend, but I need to see a lot more evidence, primarily against good teams, on the road, carrying the team, etc before I claim he will.

I definitely think he will continue to ascend. He's improved exponentially over the course of this season and as long as Charlie Weis returns, I expect him to continue to get better.

Will he be a guy that can carry a team week in and week out? At this point, I think the answer is "no" but I think that's difficult to predict. He has shown the capacity to become a very, very good game manager, which is something I didn't think he was capable of doing in September.

So I guess the question at this point is, how high is his ceiling? I don't have that answer but I have far more confidence in his abilities than I ever expected after his last two showings, despite the level of defensive talent he faced.

He did all the "right" things, which was really cool to see.

Pants
11-30-2010, 05:17 PM
He was good against Arizona as well.

Let's face it, guy: Matt Cassel is NOT the same player in Week 12 as he was in Week 1. He has improved throughout the season and as I've said in the past few days, at times it's been one step forward and two steps back.

But on Sunday, he looked off receivers, wasn't worried about the pass rush and play a nearly perfect game, which is something I thought he'd never accomplish. And I don't mean stats, I mean watching him play with my eyes.

I think there's a very good chance that he continues to ascend, thus proving he's a late bloomer. Worse things could happen than Matt Cassel growing into a Franchise QB at age 28.

Goddamn it. I'm just so reluctant to let my hope for him swell... I really don't want it to come crashing down on me and crushing me once again.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:18 PM
Last year he couldn't make those plays against anyone. Even if it is the Donkeys, Cards and Seahags, he's still making considerable progress.

And I've said as much. He has made progress.

Is it enough?

We won't know until he either plays at this level in a huge game, or on the road, without a running game, etc.

Otherwise, we're right back to square one:

But he's getting better, and hopefully next season, he'll be ready.

I don't want to HOPE this team can count on its QB.

I want to KNOW if this team can count on its QB.

Guru
11-30-2010, 05:19 PM
we were playing with back ups at the RT and LT and he not only avoided terible blocking but made HUGE plays out of them. The spin out and the TD pass to Bowe. Seattle's Defense isnt that terrible and they supposedly have a good line. Cassel handled the pressure and made plays. Early in the season he wasnt really doing that. It didnt mattter who it was against. Early in the season we were winning in spite of Matt. Now its not like that.

NO one is crowning anyone yet. At least i am not, I am just saying he has played way way way above what i thought he would be at.
Meh, the crown his ass comment was really just tongue in cheek. I'm not trying to discount his progression, just that we haven't exactly been playing teams with outstanding defense.

The pressure is on Matt now, and so far he seems to be handling it well. These next 5 games will tell us all we need to know about him.

jd1020
11-30-2010, 05:19 PM
Yes the Chiefs are 7-4. Yes if they win their division they deserve a playoff spot. But look at who their wins have come against. Chargers, Browns, SF, Jags, Bills, Cards, Seahawks. Both the Chargers and Browns were not the same team they are today and we barely won both of those games. I think this team is getting alittle overhyped thanks to their easy schedule.

Fruit Ninja
11-30-2010, 05:20 PM
It's awful.

One of the worst in the league.

hmmm.. its now what i been hearing from various pod casts. I havent looked up any stats, but supposedly they weren't that terrible and the Chiefs were going to lose going into Seattle because thier 12 man and how hard it was to win there. They have only lost one another game at home this year and that was due to them having a 3rd stringer at QB that game. Was against the Giants i believe.

DeezNutz
11-30-2010, 05:21 PM
No question that this league is schedule driven.

Winning begets confidence, so this might off-set some of the challenges that are bound to occur next year. Plus, we're still allowed to participate in the draft, and I believe we're allowed to be involved in FA, possibly (with many variables here).

Fruit Ninja
11-30-2010, 05:21 PM
Yes the Chiefs are 7-4. Yes if they win their division they deserve a playoff spot. But look at who their wins have come against. Chargers, Browns, SF, Jags, Bills, Cards, Seahawks. Both the Chargers and Browns were not the same team they are today and we barely won both of those games. I think this team is getting alittle overhyped thanks to their easy schedule.

We arent the same team as when we played the Chargers and Browns. So now what?

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 05:22 PM
Yes the Chiefs are 7-4. Yes if they win their division they deserve a playoff spot. But look at who their wins have come against. Chargers, Browns, SF, Jags, Bills, Cards, Seahawks. Both the Chargers and Browns were not the same team they are today and we barely won both of those games. I think this team is getting alittle overhyped thanks to their easy schedule.

I don't see anyone overhyping the team...Is it the local media? Certainly national media is not. Most people I know and things I read describe the Chiefs as what they are - rebuilding, no real chance in the playoffs but might make it TO the playoffs...if they can fend off SD down the stretch.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:22 PM
When I was making assertions that this team needed to be 8-8 or GTFO, many said these expectations were unreasonable.

Now, we have an opportunity to do much, much more and our expectations should accelerate, too.

That said, we've already met expectations of where this team should be in year 2, and we're almost certainly poised to exceed them.

Exactly.

Which is why is drives me nuts to see people say, "no one expected us to be 7-4. No one expected us to be in 1st place."

And?

That doesn't mean that because I mis-judged their abilities, that whatever happens from here on out is gravy because they've met/exceeded expectations.

Fruit Ninja
11-30-2010, 05:24 PM
Exactly.

Which is why is drives me nuts to see people say, "no one expected us to be 7-4. No one expected us to be in 1st place."

And?

That doesn't mean that because I mis-judged their abilities, that whatever happens from here on out is gravy because they've met/exceeded expectations.

For me it does. I didnt expect this to be a fun season to watch. It hass been. We have been in every single game going into the 4th quarter, hell we been tied or had the lead in every single game outside of the Denver game going into the 4th quarter.

Do i want this team to do more? absolutely, am i going to rant moan and groan if they dont? Nope.

jd1020
11-30-2010, 05:24 PM
We arent the same team as when we played the Chargers and Browns. So now what?

How arent we? We've played 2 terrible teams 2 weeks in a row and we ran it down their throat. Thats how we've won all year.

Guru
11-30-2010, 05:24 PM
When I was making assertions that this team needed to be 8-8 or GTFO, many said these expectations were unreasonable.

Now, we have an opportunity to do much, much more and our expectations should accelerate, too.

That said, we've already met expectations of where this team should be in year 2, and we're almost certainly poised to exceed them.

Hell, I already consider this a successful season regardless of whether we make the playoffs or not. We have made huge strides. all they have to do now is back it up and improve on it.

patteeu
11-30-2010, 05:25 PM
He was good against Arizona as well.

Let's face it, guy: Matt Cassel is NOT the same player in Week 12 as he was in Week 1. He has improved throughout the season and as I've said in the past few days, at times it's been one step forward and two steps back.

But on Sunday, he looked off receivers, wasn't worried about the pass rush and play a nearly perfect game, which is something I thought he'd never accomplish. And I don't mean stats, I mean watching him play with my eyes.

I think there's a very good chance that he continues to ascend, thus proving he's a late bloomer. Worse things could happen than Matt Cassel growing into a Franchise QB at age 28.

I agree with everything you say here.

I think we'll see a step back when the Chiefs face a team that puts pressure on Cassel early. I think that's the kind of thing that affects him and reverberates for the rest of the game. My game plan for facing Cassel would be to come hard at him early in the game and make him feel the heat.

I think that over time, this can be remedied both through improvement in the pass protection and continued toughening of Matt Cassel's mind, but I don't think it's completely accomplished yet. What the past few weeks have done though is demonstrate that it's not a matter of a weak arm or poor mechanics or inability to process more than one receiver.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:25 PM
I don't see anyone overhyping the team...Is it the local media? Certainly national media is not. Most people I know and things I read describe the Chiefs as what they are - rebuilding, no real chance in the playoffs but might make it TO the playoffs...if they can fend off SD down the stretch.

Are you kidding?

People here were talking playoffs weeks ago.

People said there was no way we'd lose to Oakland or Denver.

People continue to think our remaining home games are gimmes.

DaneMcCloud
11-30-2010, 05:25 PM
No question that this league is schedule driven.

Winning begets confidence, so this might off-set some of the challenges that are bound to occur next year. Plus, we're still allowed to participate in the draft, and I believe we're allowed to be involved in FA, possibly (with many variables here).

A rush backer, NT, center and WR (not to mention depth) should help to overcome any fear of the Chiefs "falling back to earth" because of the 2011 schedule.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:26 PM
And I've said as much. He has made progress.

Is it enough?

We won't know until he either plays at this level in a huge game, or on the road, without a running game, etc.

Otherwise, we're right back to square one:



I don't want to HOPE this team can count on its QB.

I want to KNOW if this team can count on its QB.

Eh, Can't really argue with you about that. When I came into this season, I had NO HOPE at all for Matt Cassel. He was terrible. The worst actually.

But he's getting better. And now i can actually have some faith in him.

I honestly don't think we'll see what you want to see until next season. He's getting better, but I don't think he's ready to carry the team yet.

It looks to me like he's finally understanding the offense, knowing where players are supposed to be. And his footwork has improved.

I never thought i would see his accuracy improve. I was wrong.

All I can do is hope that continues to grow, because he'll be back next season.

Fruit Ninja
11-30-2010, 05:26 PM
How arent we? We've played 2 terrible teams 2 weeks in a row and we ran it down their throat. Thats how we've won all year.

Because we now have a quarter back that can throw the ball we now have a WR. that the Quarterback believes in. I dont know about you, but that is fucking HUGE.

Games against the Chargers and Browns, we didnt have that, we relied strickly on our running game. When we dropped back to throw the ball EVERYONE i mean EVERYOne cringed. Was it a sack or a interception is what we thought. WE arent the same team, and if you think we are, open your fucking eyes.

DeezNutz
11-30-2010, 05:28 PM
That doesn't mean that because I mis-judged their abilities, that whatever happens from here on out is gravy because they've met/exceeded expectations.

We have to take advantage of a golden opportunity, and it will be a damn shame if we don't.

There are some similarities here to the arguments about the "evaluation year" in '09. Some were pissed at a wasted year, while some saw it was an unavoidable step.

Overall, I'm going to be happy about this team's progress in '10. If we piss away these final 5 games and an opportunity at the playoffs, however, I will be worried about next year, when our schedule will certainly be dramatically more difficult.

Oh, and SD isn't going to go away because they have a pretty important position on lock.

(not trying to start stuffs)

DeezNutz
11-30-2010, 05:29 PM
A rush backer, NT, center and WR (not to mention depth) should help to overcome any fear of the Chiefs "falling back to earth" because of the 2011 schedule.

This looks like the type of Christmas list I sometimes assembled as a kid--far reaching.

patteeu
11-30-2010, 05:29 PM
we were playing with back ups at the RT and LT and he not only avoided terible blocking but made HUGE plays out of them. The spin out and the TD pass to Bowe. Seattle's Defense isnt that terrible and they supposedly have a good line. Cassel handled the pressure and made plays. Early in the season he wasnt really doing that. It didnt mattter who it was against. Early in the season we were winning in spite of Matt. Now its not like that.

NO one is crowning anyone yet. At least i am not, I am just saying he has played way way way above what i thought he would be at.

I don't think Seattle's defensive line was very good. I agree that Cassel did a good job of avoiding what little pressure they did get though.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 05:29 PM
Are you kidding?

People here were talking playoffs weeks ago.

People said there was no way we'd lose to Oakland or Denver.

People continue to think our remaining home games are gimmes.

Well the exception doesn't make the rule.

The few homer morons don't mean the team is 'overhyped' in reality.

jd1020
11-30-2010, 05:29 PM
Because we now have a quarter back that can throw the ball we now have a WR. that the Quarterback believes in. I dont know about you, but that is ****ing HUGE.

Games against the Chargers and Browns, we didnt have that, we relied strickly on our running game. When we dropped back to throw the ball EVERYONE i mean EVERYOne cringed. Was it a sack or a interception is what we thought. WE arent the same team, and if you think we are, open your ****ing eyes.

My eyes are wide open. I've seen a comfortable QB taking advantage of a #1 run offense the last 2 weeks against god awful defenses. Denver stuffed the run 3 weeks ago and Cassel couldnt get 1 first down. We dont know what we have yet. All we know is that there is a POTENTIAL for something. Every player that is drafted has ****in POTENTIAL.

Hoover
11-30-2010, 05:30 PM
I love how we all want the Chiefs to develop a young QB, and then when it actually starts to happen before our eyes we have a bunch of jag bags who bitch because well he sucked at the start of season, or sucked all of last season.

Face it, some of you would have never had the patience to coach guys like Payton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, and basically any other QB

The position takes time to learn in the NFL, and here we have Matt Cassel entering into the prime of his career and people want to bitch about it because they just hate to be proved wrong. I know, I know, its easy always being the guy who finds fault with everything.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:31 PM
For me it does. I didnt expect this to be a fun season to watch. It hass been. We have been in every single game going into the 4th quarter, hell we been tied or had the lead in every single game outside of the Denver game going into the 4th quarter.

Do i want this team to do more? absolutely, am i going to rant moan and groan if they dont? Nope.

There's no way to say this nicely, or sugar coat it, so...

I guess that this team, and their performance means more to than others than it does to you.

With that said, if I thought this team wasn't capable of making the playoffs or making a run, then yeah, I wouldn't be all that upset.

But I believe this team CAN, if they play to their potential.

So I'll be damned if I lower my expectations now, when the team should be raising theirs.

Count Alex's Losses
11-30-2010, 05:32 PM
Denver stuffed the run 3 weeks ago and Cassel couldnt get 1 first down. We dont know what we have yet.

This x1000.

I will say, however, that the opening drive against Seattle, which featured almost 0 contribution from the running game, gives me hope.

If Cassel can take pressure off the running game like that consistently there's no telling how good the offense might be.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:32 PM
Well the exception doesn't make the rule.

The few homer morons don't mean the team is 'overhyped' in reality.

A few?

C'mon, man.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:32 PM
This looks like the type of Christmas list I sometimes assembled as a kid--far reaching.

How so?

These are obvious needs that can't and won't be overlooked. I don't think we'll get that NT that we're looking for, but im positive we'll see a OLB and a WR in the first 2 rounds.

I think we'll see:

OLB
WR
C
RB
S

For sure.

Guru
11-30-2010, 05:32 PM
Because we now have a quarter back that can throw the ball we now have a WR. that the Quarterback believes in. I dont know about you, but that is ****ing HUGE.

Games against the Chargers and Browns, we didnt have that, we relied strickly on our running game. When we dropped back to throw the ball EVERYONE i mean EVERYOne cringed. Was it a sack or a interception is what we thought. WE arent the same team, and if you think we are, open your ****ing eyes.

I think you actually mean, was it a dropped pass or poorly thrown.

DaneMcCloud
11-30-2010, 05:32 PM
I think that over time, this can be remedied both through improvement in the pass protection and continued toughening of Matt Cassel's mind, but I don't think it's completely accomplished yet. What the past few weeks have done though is demonstrate that it's not a matter of a weak arm or poor mechanics or inability to process more than one receiver.

I'm really beginning to believe that Matt Cassel's biggest problem comes from sitting on the bench for seven consecutive years.

In many ways, it's like the guy is a third year player. I didn't want to admit it last year because in reality, it's a silly notion to think that a 28 year old is a third year player. But he wasn't recruited to play at USC because he sucked and he wasn't drafted by the Patriots because he sucked and he wasn't traded to the Chiefs because he sucked.

I think the guy has the genuine ability to be a solid if not spectacular NFL QB, but what he's needed desperately is playing time.

Look, I wouldn't be as high on him if he was playing at the same level as last year or even through the first six games but he's moved beyond that. And while he's most certain to have one bad game down the stretch (if not two), he appears to be a guy that learns from mistakes, forgets and moves on.

Regardless of stats, he still has a ways to go but if the Chiefs can finish 4-1 and possibly hit the playoffs, the guy will be an even better QB in 2011.

The Bad Guy
11-30-2010, 05:33 PM
Dane is the voice of reason in this thread. I agree, if he does lay an egg in SD, it won't diminish what Cassel has done so far.

If Cassel fails at San Diego, the same usual suspects who have ripped him every chance they get will come out in droves.

Whereas, they typically make backhanded compliments when he plays well, or show up days later to offer their "support that he keeps playing well".

But the minute he ****s up again, they will be all over this board bitching. One day he's called the worst starting QB in the NFL, then a few weeks later people, the same people complaining, want him to perform like an elite QB.

It's comedy gold.

Fruit Ninja
11-30-2010, 05:33 PM
My eyes are wide open. I've seen a comfortable QB taking advantage of a #1 run offense the last 2 weeks against god awful defenses. Denver stuffed the run 3 weeks ago and Cassel couldnt get 1 first down. We dont know what we have yet. All we know is that there is a POTENTIAL for something. Every player that is drafter has ****in POTENTIAL.

YOu will NOT dominate every game. Even the mighty mighty Patriots have lost and lost bad this year. I think twice, Jets put a thumping on them and so did the Browns. Even earlier in the year when we played shitty teams, Cassel and Bowe were still not doing much. I firmly believe that Denver game was just one of those fluke games. Young team that had to much confidence and got their chin checked. It happens to all young teams.

This team has still competed with even the good teams it has played. We just never found a way to close it out. We have closed it out even if its against bad teams. Remember the previous 3 years. We just lost lost lost lost. Didnt matter who it was. Shitty team? fuck, we made them look good. REAL good. WE made shitty quarterbacks/running back/wide receivers look like hall of fame players. YOu had a defense that was struggling? Play the Chiefs, that will get them going. Thats NOT the case anymore. AT ALL!.

Count Alex's Losses
11-30-2010, 05:34 PM
The position takes time to learn in the NFL, and here we have Matt Cassel entering into the prime of his career and people want to bitch about it because they just hate to be proved wrong.

People are bitching because they don't believe it's real.

They don't want to get their hopes up just to be disappointed.

It has nothing to do with wanting to be wrong or right. Believe me, I want to be wrong.

In the end though, I can't lose, because I was gaga over Matt after the trade. :evil:

DeezNutz
11-30-2010, 05:34 PM
How so?

These are obvious needs that can't and won't be overlooked. I don't think we'll get that NT that we're looking for, but im positive we'll see a OLB and a WR in the first 2 rounds.

I think we'll see:

OLB
WR
C
RB
S

For sure.

How? Because those (NT and OLB) are extremely difficult to fill for a 34, with far more teams running this defense.

Can we get a complimentary WR (what happened to our HOF second rounder from '10? should there be another apology thread?) and a C? I should hope so.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:34 PM
We have to take advantage of a golden opportunity, and it will be a damn shame if we don't.

There are some similarities here to the arguments about the "evaluation year" in '09. Some were pissed at a wasted year, while some saw it was an unavoidable step.

Overall, I'm going to be happy about this team's progress in '10. If we piss away these final 5 games and an opportunity at the playoffs, however, I will be worried about next year, when our schedule will certainly be dramatically more difficult.

Oh, and SD isn't going to go away because they have a pretty important position on lock.

(not trying to start stuffs)

I'm quoting this post to show my agreement with its contents.

Nailed it, Deez.

Guru
11-30-2010, 05:34 PM
I love how we all want the Chiefs to develop a young QB, and then when it actually starts to happen before our eyes we have a bunch of jag bags who bitch because well he sucked at the start of season, or sucked all of last season.

Face it, some of you would have never had the patience to coach guys like Payton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, and basically any other QB

The position takes time to learn in the NFL, and here we have Matt Cassel entering into the prime of his career and people want to bitch about it because they just hate to be proved wrong. I know, I know, its easy always being the guy who finds fault with everything.

Face it, none of those guys were 28 when they started their career.

jd1020
11-30-2010, 05:35 PM
YOu will NOT dominate every game. Even the mighty mighty Patriots have lost and lost bad this year. I think twice, Jets put a thumping on them and so did the Browns. Even earlier in the year when we played shitty teams, Cassel and Bowe were still not doing much. I firmly believe that Denver game was just one of those fluke games. Young team that had to much confidence and got their chin checked. It happens to all young teams.

This team has still competed with even the good teams it has played. We just never found a way to close it out. We have closed it out even if its against bad teams. Remember the previous 3 years. We just lost lost lost lost. Didnt matter who it was. Shitty team? ****, we made them look good. REAL good. WE made shitty quarterbacks/running back/wide receivers look like hall of fame players. YOu had a defense that was struggling? Play the Chiefs, that will get them going. Thats NOT the case anymore. AT ALL!.

So your argument for Cassel is the defense now? WTF? Make sense?

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 05:35 PM
I love how we all want the Chiefs to develop a young QB, and then when it actually starts to happen before our eyes we have a bunch of jag bags who bitch because well he sucked at the start of season, or sucked all of last season.

Face it, some of you would have never had the patience to coach guys like Payton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, and basically any other QB

The position takes time to learn in the NFL, and here we have Matt Cassel entering into the prime of his career and people want to bitch about it because they just hate to be proved wrong. I know, I know, its easy always being the guy who finds fault with everything.

Oh and now many of them 'expected this' and 'knew Matt Cassel' would play like this.....

LOL

Its a fuckign joke, really.

Fruit Ninja
11-30-2010, 05:35 PM
People are bitching because they don't believe it's real.

They don't want to get their hopes up just to be disappointed.

It has nothing to do with wanting to be wrong or right. Believe me, I want to be wrong.

In the end though, I can't lose, because I was gaga over Matt after the trade. :evil:

You go Gaga after everything right away. IN all honesty, your opinions here mean absolutely SHIT. you lost ALL credibility about anything a LONG ass time ago. your great at making videos' though. I give you an A+ for that.

Hoover
11-30-2010, 05:36 PM
You act like he's a short term option. What about Rich Gannon?

DaneMcCloud
11-30-2010, 05:36 PM
This looks like the type of Christmas list I sometimes assembled as a kid--far reaching.

I suppose but I didn't think that the Chiefs be able to acquire a back like Jones, a center like Weigman, guards like Lilja and Asamoah, a tight end like Moeaki and safeties like Berry & Lewis (not to mention Arenas & McCluster) all in one offseason, either.

Every one of those guys have been difference makers.

B2chiefsfan
11-30-2010, 05:36 PM
Good for you, Matt.....

Count Alex's Losses
11-30-2010, 05:36 PM
You go Gaga after everything right away.

Not true.

See the 2010 draft.

The Bad Guy
11-30-2010, 05:37 PM
There's no way to say this nicely, or sugar coat it, so...

I guess that this team, and their performance means more to than others than it does to you.

With that said, if I thought this team wasn't capable of making the playoffs or making a run, then yeah, I wouldn't be all that upset.

But I believe this team CAN, if they play to their potential.

So I'll be damned if I lower my expectations now, when the team should be raising theirs.

So calling this team awful in the off-season now gives you free reign to continue to complain if they don't meet your new lofty expectations? The same ones that didn't exist 13 weeks ago?

Brock
11-30-2010, 05:38 PM
I'm sipping the koolaid just a little.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:39 PM
How? Because those (NT and OLB) are extremely difficult to fill for a 34, with far more teams running this defense.

Can we get a complimentary WR (what happened to our HOF second rounder from '10? should there be another apology thread?) and a C? I should hope so.

That's why i said I doubt we get our NT. OLB isn't that difficult to fill. Not nearly as hard as NT.

I see no reason why we can't come away with a starter at WR and OLB in the first two rounds. Especially considering how deep this draft is suppose to be at WR.

DeezNutz
11-30-2010, 05:39 PM
I suppose but I didn't think that the Chiefs be able to acquire a back like Jones, a center like Weigman, guards like Lilja and Asamoah, a tight end like Moeaki and safeties like Berry & Lewis (not to mention Arenas & McCluster) all in one offseason, either.

Every one of those guys have been difference makers.

True. Although I believe Jones and Weigman could easily be replaced. Moeaki has been the real surprise for me. Lewis was a great late pick, too, it seems.

Jury still out on round 2, unfortunately. But even if these picks drink from the dick sock, ultimately, the '10 draft appears to be a very strong one.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:39 PM
Dane is the voice of reason in this thread. I agree, if he does lay an egg in SD, it won't diminish what Cassel has done so far.

If Cassel fails at San Diego, the same usual suspects who have ripped him every chance they get will come out in droves.

Whereas, they typically make backhanded compliments when he plays well, or show up days later to offer their "support that he keeps playing well".

But the minute he ****s up again, they will be all over this board bitching. One day he's called the worst starting QB in the NFL, then a few weeks later people, the same people complaining, want him to perform like an elite QB.

It's comedy gold.

And what if he fails Sunday?

Or in STL?

You might find it funny, I don't.

Look around the league. 8 of the 12 division leaders have elite QB's.

It's a QB driven league, and will be for quite a while, I think.

He's 28 years old, and he's yet to prove he can win an important road game against a solid opponent. He's yet to show that if parts of the team are faltering, he can put the team on his back and win.

I don't see what the issue is in needing to see that happen at least once before we say the guy is a fucking franchise QB.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:40 PM
I'm sipping the koolaid just a little.

Tastes good huh?

DeezNutz
11-30-2010, 05:40 PM
That's why i said I doubt we get our NT. OLB isn't that difficult to fill. Not nearly as hard as NT.

I see no reason why we can't come away with a starter at WR and OLB in the first two rounds. Especially considering how deep this draft is suppose to be at WR.

I agree about WR, but I think we should temper our expectations for OLB if we're looking at round 2. Can it be better than the broke dick we have? Definitely.

And Hali needs to continue to be visible every single week.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 05:40 PM
And what if he fails Sunday?

Or in STL?

You might find it funny, I don't.

Look around the league. 8 of the 12 division leaders have elite QB's.

It's a QB driven league, and will be for quite a while, I think.

He's 28 years old, and he's yet to prove he can win an important road game against a solid opponent. He's yet to show that if parts of the team are faltering, he can put the team on his back and win.

I don't see what the issue is in needing to see that happen at least once before we say the guy is a ****ing franchise QB.

:LOL:


Wow I think he is crying IRL

Brock
11-30-2010, 05:40 PM
Tastes good huh?

I'm prepared for it to end up giving me dysentery, though.

The Bad Guy
11-30-2010, 05:41 PM
And what if he fails Sunday?

Or in STL?

You might find it funny, I don't.

Look around the league. 8 of the 12 division leaders have elite QB's.

It's a QB driven league, and will be for quite a while, I think.

He's 28 years old, and he's yet to prove he can win an important road game against a solid opponent. He's yet to show that if parts of the team are faltering, he can put the team on his back and win.

I don't see what the issue is in needing to see that happen at least once before we say the guy is a ****ing franchise QB.

I'll never say he's a franchise QB. There are about 5 of them in the entire NFL and Cassel never will be that so if that's your expectation then I guess there will be a continued insane amount of bitching.

I do think he's turning into a really solid to very good QB right before our eyes and has made progress that no one on this board thought possible after Week 1.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 05:42 PM
I'm prepared for it to end up giving me dysentery, though.

Let's wash down some pepto with our kool aid, just to be safe.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:42 PM
True. Although I believe Jones and Weigman could easily be replaced. Moeaki has been the real surprise for me. Lewis was a great late pick, too, it seems.

Jury still out on round 2, unfortunately. But even if these picks drink from the dick sock, ultimately, the '10 draft appears to be a very strong one.

McCluster has proved that he's every bit as explosive as advertised. Arenas has made some key plays and filled a HUGE whole in ST that has been void since Dante left.

Im curious to see how they incorporate McCluster in the offense now that Bowe has emerged.

DeezNutz
11-30-2010, 05:43 PM
The level of optimism for Cassel after two good weeks is staggeringly more impressive than the level of disdain for 1 1/2 seasons of mediocrity.

We'll see which is the "real" Cassel.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:44 PM
So calling this team awful in the off-season now gives you free reign to continue to complain if they don't meet your new lofty expectations? The same ones that didn't exist 13 weeks ago?

There's not a person on this board that HONESTLY thought this team would be 7-4 right now, and you know it.

People say it so in the event it happens, they look like fucking superfans.

If you want to be happy if they blow a 3 game lead and lose the division, be my guest.

I've seen that they are capable of more than I, or anyone else thought, and expect them to succeed.

Is holding a 3 game lead and winning the division really a "lofty" expectation?

Christ, half this board had them penciled into the playoffs a month ago when we were 5-2.

Count Alex's Losses
11-30-2010, 05:45 PM
The level of optimism for Cassel after two good weeks is staggeringly more impressive than the level of disdain for 1 1/2 seasons of mediocrity.


Just a dab'll do ya!

http://professionalgamingtips.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/nfc-west.jpeg

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:45 PM
The level of optimism for Cassel after two good weeks is staggeringly more impressive than the level of disdain for 1 1/2 seasons of mediocrity.

We'll see which is the "real" Cassel.

If Cassel is who I think he is right now, he should have another solid game against the Donks and struggle against the Chargers.

If that happens, how would you label him?

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 05:45 PM
If you want to be happy if they blow a 3 game lead and lose the division, be my guest.



Isn't our lead only one game?

jd1020
11-30-2010, 05:45 PM
The level of optimism for Cassel after two good weeks is staggeringly more impressive than the level of disdain for 1 1/2 seasons of mediocrity.

We'll see which is the "real" Cassel.

This.

Even Grossman had acouple of good games. I'll wait til Cassel actually does something on his own in a meaningful game.

Count Alex's Losses
11-30-2010, 05:46 PM
If Cassel is who I think he is right now, he should have another solid game against the Donks and struggle against the Chargers.

If that happens, how would you label him?

A fraud, clearly.

DaneMcCloud
11-30-2010, 05:46 PM
McCluster has proved that he's every bit as explosive as advertised. Arenas has made some key plays and filled a HUGE whole in ST that has been void since Dante left.

IMO, Arenas has been somewhat of a disappointment on special teams but he's more than made up for that with his play at nickel/corner.

Considering that Washington was a completely wasted pick in 2009, the Chiefs definitely needed an upgrade at nickel, especially with the injury to Leggett.

Im curious to see how they incorporate McCluster in the offense now that Bowe has emerged.

Theoretically, he should soften the front seven of the opposing defenses and give even more looks to Bowe. If that happens, the Chiefs will definitely have a chance in San Diego.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 05:47 PM
A fraud, clearly.

At least you're honest.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:48 PM
A fraud, clearly.

You need to get that word out of your head because you don't know how to use it, clearly.

Guru
11-30-2010, 05:48 PM
Just a dab'll do ya!

http://professionalgamingtips.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/nfc-west.jpeg

:LOL:

DaneMcCloud
11-30-2010, 05:49 PM
The level of optimism for Cassel after two good weeks is staggeringly more impressive than the level of disdain for 1 1/2 seasons of mediocrity.

We'll see which is the "real" Cassel.

I expect him to play well against Denver and struggle against San Diego.

But, that doesn't mean that the Chiefs can't beat San Diego, even if he struggles somewhat.

Injuries and player availability will play a key role in determining who wins and loses that game.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:50 PM
The level of optimism for Cassel after two good weeks is staggeringly more impressive than the level of disdain for 1 1/2 seasons of mediocrity.

We'll see which is the "real" Cassel.

At this point, it doesn't really matter.

He'll be here for the duration of his contract.

So I pray to God that the Cassel of Weeks 11/12 is the real Cassel, and the schmuck who started the other 24 games wearing #7 is gone forever.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 05:50 PM
These next 5 games will tell us all we need to know about him.

no, it won't.

but it will tell us what we need to know about the team.

I find it funny how fans say..well, if he does this and this and this, then I'll give him praise, like their accepted level of praise actually validates him.

furthermore, fans that aren't willing to take the risk, really don't deserve the reward.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:51 PM
Isn't our lead only one game?

We had a 3 game lead on SD.

Key word being, "had."

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:51 PM
IMO, Arenas has been somewhat of a disappointment on special teams but he's more than made up for that with his play at nickel/corner.

Considering that Washington was a completely wasted pick in 2009, the Chiefs definitely needed an upgrade at nickel, especially with the injury to Leggett.



Theoretically, he should soften the front seven of the opposing defenses and give even more looks to Bowe. If that happens, we'll definitely have a chance in San Diego.

I understand that Arenas hasn't been able to break one yet, but the guy holds onto the football and looks natural receiving it back there. That's huge IMO. Everytime we fielded a punt last season i almost shat myself. And he's shown he CAN break it. It's only a matter of time. I think he's paying off.

Guru
11-30-2010, 05:51 PM
I expect him to play well against Denver and struggle against San Diego.

But, that doesn't mean that the Chiefs can't beat San Diego, even if he struggles somewhat.

Injuries and player availability will play a key role in determining who wins and loses that game.

I definitely think we CAN win that game. I just don't have the confidence that we WILL win that game.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:54 PM
I definitely think we CAN win that game. I just don't have the confidence that we WILL win that game.

We'll need turnovers, maybe some special teams plays. JC will need to have a monster game.

We can find ourselves up 21 points going into the 4th and still lose; that's how good Rivers is playing.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:54 PM
If Cassel is who I think he is right now, he should have another solid game against the Donks and struggle against the Chargers.

If that happens, how would you label him?

An average QB.

One that can beat the Sisters of the Poor in the NFL, but can't win the games that matter most.

The last two weeks have shown us that he has the ability to play like an elite QB against bad teams.

Can he replicate that ability against good teams?

Against good teams on the road?

Or in a game in which Charles/TJ get shut down?

Can Matt Cassel perform like a franchise QB when his team needs him the most?

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 05:54 PM
So I pray to God that the Cassel of Weeks 11/12 is the real Cassel, and the schmuck who started the other 24 games wearing #7 is gone forever.

I suppose this would be easier for "God" to grant than making your incredibly simple brain come to the realization that they are the same person. Cassel did not suddenly become something different 2 weeks ago. This has been ongoing the entire season.

If your head is up your ass, and you pull it out and then see light....it doesn't necessarily mean God turned on a light switch....it might mean your head was in your ass.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 05:55 PM
I expect him to play well against Denver and struggle against San Diego..

I told Holthus last night that I want "revenge" and a win against the Donks, but I really want to sweep SD...that's the game right there.

Guru
11-30-2010, 05:55 PM
no, it won't.

but it will tell us what we need to know about the team.

I find it funny how fans say..well, if he does this and this and this, then I'll give him praise, like their accepted level of praise actually validates him.

I don't give a crap what anyone thinks of my opinion of Cassel. The Chiefs will go as Cassel goes over these next 5 games. If he struggles the team will struggle. If he excels, the team will excel. Neither one means they will go 5-0 or 0-5. The pressure is on him and the team right now as the playoffs have already started for the Chiefs.

chiefzilla1501
11-30-2010, 05:55 PM
The level of optimism for Cassel after two good weeks is staggeringly more impressive than the level of disdain for 1 1/2 seasons of mediocrity.

We'll see which is the "real" Cassel.

I don't agree. You have your homers who drank the kool-aid all season long but are just speaking louder today.

Everyone else is cautiously optimistic. The reason he's getting rave reviews for the past two weeks is how he did it. The Chiefs put up tons of points against SF and Jax, but I don't think Cassel was stellar in either of those games. The way he put up points against Arizona and Seattle was a completely different QB than one we've seen in those 1 1/2 years and yes, even his productive season in NE.

DeezNutz
11-30-2010, 05:56 PM
I expect him to play well against Denver and struggle against San Diego.

But, that doesn't mean that the Chiefs can't beat San Diego, even if he struggles somewhat.

Injuries and player availability will play a key role in determining who wins and loses that game.

Denver is a floundering team right now, in large part because of a lot of internal problems, and we should absolutely piss pound them at Arrowhead.

Cassel will need to play well in SD. Not doing so should be grounds for legitimate criticism because this will, essentially, be a playoff game for this team. All players, especially our most important ones, will need to elevate their game.

I expect to see the best from the likes of Bowe, Charles, Cassel, etc.

Count Alex's Losses
11-30-2010, 05:56 PM
I told Holthus last night...

Is he the big spoon or the little spoon?

stevieray
11-30-2010, 05:57 PM
An average QB.

One that can beat the Sisters of the Poor in the NFL, but can't win the games that matter most.

The last two weeks have shown us that he has the ability to play like an elite QB against bad teams.

Can he replicate that ability against good teams?

Against good teams on the road?

Or in a game in which Charles/TJ get shut down?

Can Matt Cassel perform like a franchise QB when his team needs him the most?

...just like Peyton did against the Chargers...at home.

Pasta Giant Meatball
11-30-2010, 05:57 PM
This.

Even Grossman had acouple of good games. I'll wait til Cassel actually does something on his own in a meaningful game.

When did Rex Grossman have a stretch of 18-1 TD's to INT? Florida?

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 05:57 PM
I suppose this would be easier for "God" to grant than making your incredibly simple brain come to the realization that they are the same person. Cassel did not suddenly become something different 2 weeks ago. This has been ongoing the entire season.

If your head is up your ass, and you pull it out and then see light....it doesn't necessarily mean God turned on a light switch....it might mean your head was in your ass.

No, it hasn't.

Cassel has looked like a completely different QB starting with the 2nd half of the Denver game.

Anyone who knows anything about football and the QB position can determine this easily.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 05:57 PM
An average QB.

One that can beat the Sisters of the Poor in the NFL, but can't win the games that matter most.

The last two weeks have shown us that he has the ability to play like an elite QB against bad teams.

Can he replicate that ability against good teams?

Against good teams on the road?

Or in a game in which Charles/TJ get shut down?

Can Matt Cassel perform like a franchise QB when his team needs him the most?

Like I said, if you're looking for him to do those things THIS season, He's going to let you down...or prove you right, however you want to word it.

I don't think he's that far developed yet. I expect him to do those things next season.

22 td's and 4 ints. He developing into a good game manager. He's taking the step from dogshit to game manager.

Hopefully next season he can take the step from game manger to "THE MAN".

chiefzilla1501
11-30-2010, 05:59 PM
I don't give a crap what anyone thinks of my opinion of Cassel. The Chiefs will go as Cassel goes over these next 5 games. If he struggles the team will struggle. If he excels, the team will excel. Neither one means they will go 5-0 or 0-5. The pressure is on him and the team right now as the playoffs have already started for the Chiefs.

But the standard has to be clear. We have to get on Cassel's case for the right reasons.

Because an unfair standard is to expect him to continually carry a bad defense and special teams unit and expect him to consistently win games. I ripped on Cassel for his performance against Denver--thought he didn't make plays when he needed to. On the other hand, I think a LOT of people were very unfairly critical of Cassel's performance in Oakland even though the Chiefs got crushed in the running game, on defense, on special teams, and with stupid penalty mistakes. So I don't agree that it's fair to say that we go as Cassel goes. Cassel needs to be sharp in the remaining games, but if he's sharp and the defense gives up 30+ points, there's only so far you can take the blame.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 06:00 PM
I don't give a crap what anyone thinks of my opinion of Cassel. The Chiefs will go as Cassel goes over these next 5 games. If he struggles the team will struggle. If he excels, the team will excel.

sure you do.. you keep repeating it...and you expect him to overcome subpar play from the rest of the squad. in year two of a rebuild...:rolleyes:

excel, despite like the defense played against Houston?

hey matt, the defense just gave up four consecutive TD's in the forth qtr....it's your fault if we lose.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 06:01 PM
No, it hasn't.

Cassel has looked like a completely different QB starting with the 2nd half of the Denver game.

Anyone who knows anything about football and the QB position can determine this easily.


...yup, because every franchise QB on a legit team doeasn't struggle, ever.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:01 PM
Anyone who knows anything about football and the QB position can determine this easily.


Oh ok. Youre right....I just asked everyone who knew and they told me you were correct and Cassel sucks, Pioli is a moron etc...

I will never question you again.

DaneMcCloud
11-30-2010, 06:01 PM
Denver is a floundering team right now, in large part because of a lot of internal problems, and we should absolutely piss pound them at Arrowhead.

Cassel will need to play well in SD. Not doing so should be grounds for legitimate criticism because this will, essentially, be a playoff game for this team. All players, especially our most important ones, will need to elevate their game.

I expect to see the best from the likes of Bowe, Charles, Cassel, etc.

I agree that San Diego is a huge test for Cassel but I also believe that if he fails, that doesn't mean that he won't get "it" later this year or before next season.

Like I mentioned earlier, the guy was on the roster at USC and with the Patriots but he hasn't been put in that type of a situation before. He's getting better each week but it won't shock me if he falters because he's really never been in "playoff" type atmosphere in college or the NFL. He may not be prepared for that type of pressure.

If he doesn't perform at a higher level in San Diego but comes back to play at a high level against the final three opponents, I'll have more faith in him the next time he's put in that situation. He's still got a lot to learn but he's most certainly heading in the right direction.

Hopefully, he'll kick ass in San Diego and this entire conversation will be for naught.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:02 PM
...just like Peyton did against the Chargers...at home.

No offense, Steve, but that's ridiculous, and you know it.

Peyton Manning answered all the questions we have about Cassel in his rookie year, and is nothing less than a Top 5 QB in the history of the NFL.

Sorry, but he gets the benefit of the doubt for having a bad game or two every three years.

Maybe if Cassel shows, just once, that he can do any of the things Manning has been doing consistently for over a decade, you can make that comment again, and I'll only snicker instead of laughing so hard it hurts.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:03 PM
Oh ok. Youre right....I just asked everyone who knew and they told me you were correct and Cassel sucks, Pioli is a moron etc...

I will never question you again.

I'm looking for a post in which anyone said Cassel sucks, or that Pioli is a moron.

I'd ask for a refund from the Meat Dragon School of Trolling, if I were you.

Detoxing
11-30-2010, 06:03 PM
But the standard has to be clear. We have to get on Cassel's case for the right reasons.

Because an unfair standard is to expect him to continually carry a bad defense and special teams unit and expect him to consistently win games. I ripped on Cassel for his performance against Denver--thought he didn't make plays when he needed to. On the other hand, I think a LOT of people were very unfairly critical of Cassel's performance in Oakland even though the Chiefs got crushed in the running game, on defense, on special teams, and with stupid penalty mistakes. So I don't agree that it's fair to say that we go as Cassel goes. Cassel needs to be sharp in the remaining games, but if he's sharp and the defense gives up 30+ points, there's only so far you can take the blame.

That depends on what your expectations are. If the Chiefs are going to be perennial contenders, he absolutely must develop into a guy who can carry the team. See Manning, Rivers, Brady.

Our running game wont always be great. We can't always depend on our D. And Special teams will make their mistakes.

But the best teams, the perennial teams have a Qb that can constantly overcome those mistakes and keep their teams in it.

Cassel has to become that guy.

Guru
11-30-2010, 06:04 PM
sure you do.. you keep repeating it...and you expect him to overcome subpar play from the rest of the squad. in year two of a rebuild...:rolleyes:

excel, despite like the defense played against Houston?

hey matt, the defense just gave up four consecutive TD's in the forth qtr....it's your fault if we lose.

OK, you win. I'm not supposed to defend my position. Got it.:thumb:

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:04 PM
Denver is a floundering team right now, in large part because of a lot of internal problems, and we should absolutely piss pound them at Arrowhead.

Cassel will need to play well in SD. Not doing so should be grounds for legitimate criticism because this will, essentially, be a playoff game for this team. All players, especially our most important ones, will need to elevate their game.

I expect to see the best from the likes of Bowe, Charles, Cassel, etc.

Spot on.

Every game from here on out is a playoff game, IMO, and should be treated as one.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 06:04 PM
Is he the big spoon or the little spoon?

you tell me, spork.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 06:05 PM
OK, you win. I'm not supposed to defend my position. Got it.:thumb:

assuming the worst is a position?

beach tribe
11-30-2010, 06:06 PM
Wins over NFC West teams do not prove that the Chiefs are not frauds.

They remain frauds until they make the playoffs and prove they belong in the playoffs.
They have exceeded ALL expectations. They are a very much improved team. Even if they don't make the playoffs, how can they be frauds? It's not like they are claiming to be SB contenders.
It's crazy how people can look at a team that was supposed to win 6 games win 7 out of 11, and then call them frauds because they are not as goos as the Patriots.

philfree
11-30-2010, 06:07 PM
I agree that San Diego is a huge test for Cassel but I also believe that if he fails, that doesn't mean that he won't get "it" later this year or before next season.

Like I mentioned earlier, the guy was on the roster at USC and with the Patriots but he hasn't been put in that type of a situation before. He's getting better each week but it won't shock me if he falters because he's really never been in "playoff" type atmosphere in college or the NFL. He may not be prepared for that type of pressure.

If he doesn't perform at a higher level in San Diego but comes back to play at a high level against the final three opponents, I'll have more faith in him the next time he's put in that situation. He's still got a lot to learn but he's most certainly heading in the right direction.

I believe those last games he won in NE were playoff type games for the Patriots. They didn't make the playoffs but coming down the stretch they won the games trying like hell to get into the playoffs. Those were important games that the Patriots had to win if they were going to get into the playoffs.

I think that's one thing Pioli saw in him.


PhilFree:arrow:

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:07 PM
I'm looking for a post in which anyone said Cassel sucks, or that Pioli is a moron.

I'd ask for a refund from the Meat Dragon School of Trolling, if I were you.

Oh thats right you always knew he was going to be a solid QB...

ROFL

This is fantastic.....was "school" a hospital for amnesia?

Youre right no one on this board would ever say Cassel Sucks


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:07 PM
OK, you win. I'm not supposed to defend my position. Got it.:thumb:

No, you're just supposed to pass the blame to anyone but Cassel.

I mean, the guy that touches the ball on every offensive play has zero bearing on the game, right?

I don't give a flying fuck if the defense gives up 60 points.

That means that Cassel's job is to lead the offense to 61.

Guru
11-30-2010, 06:08 PM
assuming the worst is a position?
Being cautious is not assuming the worst. You haven't been reading my posts or you are just assigning your own meaning to them. I think your beef is more with OTW than with me.

Guru
11-30-2010, 06:10 PM
No, you're just supposed to pass the blame to anyone but Cassel.

I mean, the guy that touches the ball on every offensive play has zero bearing on the game, right?

I don't give a flying **** if the defense gives up 60 points.

That means that Cassel's job is to lead the offense to 61.
Lets not forget that Cassel had the opportunity to win that game in the end.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:10 PM
Oh thats right you always knew he was going to be a solid QB...

ROFL

This is fantastic.....was "school" a hospital for amnesia?

Shocking that you're moving the goalposts, but show me where I was wrong?

I said that he'd have a solid year statistically because of Weis masking his deficiencies.

That's exactly what's happened, up until the 2nd half of the Denver game.

Since then, they've actually opened up the playbook and let him try to stretch the field.

And he's been successful doing so. Let's hope the string of solid play continues.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 06:11 PM
No offense, Steve, but that's ridiculous, and you know it.

Peyton Manning answered all the questions we have about Cassel in his rookie year, and is nothing less than a Top 5 QB in the history of the NFL.

Sorry, but he gets the benefit of the doubt for having a bad game or two every three years.

Maybe if Cassel shows, just once, that he can do any of the things Manning has been doing consistently for over a decade, you can make that comment again, and I'll only snicker instead of laughing so hard it hurts.

you constantly compare him to franchise qb's, and expect him to be one in year two (mainly based on contract).. then don't hold franchise qb's to the same standard.


just like you claimed they were gonna suck, and now expect them to be playoff contenders.

laughing so hard it hurts?

oh snap.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:12 PM
I don't give a flying **** if the defense gives up 60 points.

That means that Cassel's job is to lead the offense to 61.


FAIL

I hope there aren't any logic questions on your final exam....

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:12 PM
Lets not forget that Cassel had the opportunity to win that game in the end.

I haven't forgot.

The goal of the 4:00 offense is to maintain possession, grind down the clock, and end the game in the victory formation.

That didn't happen, the defense went back on the field, and they failed at their job as well.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 06:13 PM
Being cautious is not assuming the worst. You haven't been reading my posts or you are just assigning your own meaning to them. I think your beef is more with OTW than with me.

no, I think you put forward no risk, and don't desrve the reward that comes with it..

Guru
11-30-2010, 06:13 PM
Shocking that you're moving the goalposts, but show me where I was wrong?

I said that he'd have a solid year statistically because of Weis masking his deficiencies.

That's exactly what's happened, up until the 2nd half of the Denver game.

Since then, they've actually opened up the playbook and let him try to stretch the field.

And he's been successful doing so. Let's hope the string of solid play continues.

That has been the one positive I have taken away from that Denver game. They opened up the offense and haven't looked back.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:14 PM
FAIL

I hope there aren't any logic questions on your final exam....

Uh, not fail.

I've never seen anyone make excuses for Peyton Manning when his defense was one of the worst in the league for the better part of the decade.

Dude just went out and did his job.

Christ, there was a game not that long ago where the Colts had the ball for 15 minutes in the ENTIRE GAME, and won.

THAT'S what a franchise QB can do for you.

Fuck excuses, he got the job done.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 06:14 PM
No, you're just supposed to pass the blame to anyone but Cassel.

I don't give a flying **** if the defense gives up 60 points.


how ironic...

Guru
11-30-2010, 06:16 PM
no, I think you put forward no risk, and don't desrve the reward that comes with it..

:spock:
Oh, the bad fan tag. I must be in the wrong forum. I thought this was Chiefsplanet.

kysirsoze
11-30-2010, 06:16 PM
no, I think you put forward no risk, and don't desrve the reward that comes with it..

What risk and reward? Aren't we just bullshitting on a message board? Is a Chiefs win really sweeter if you called it?

stevieray
11-30-2010, 06:18 PM
:spock:
Oh, the bad fan tag. I must be in the wrong forum. I thought this was Chiefsplanet.
awwwww...talk about putting your own meaning to posts.

Guru
11-30-2010, 06:20 PM
awwwww...talk about putting your own meaning to posts.

This is just getting old. We disagree on the QBs progress at this point in the season. Fair enough.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 06:21 PM
This is just getting old. We disagree on the QBs progress at this point in the season. Fair enough.

:thumb:

Pants
11-30-2010, 06:23 PM
FAIL

I hope there aren't any logic questions on your final exam....

How many points did Schaub's defense give up that game? I like logic too, let's get this on.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:26 PM
How many points did Schaub's defense give up that game? I like logic too, let's get this on.

You want logic?

There's some dumbass in another thread claiming that Green Bay lost this week because, "because Rodgers didn't play as well last week as Cassel did. One good throw doesn't make up for an entire game.

ROFL

Nevermind that the guy completed 74% of his passes, threw for 344 yards, threw for a TD, ran for a TD and was the teams LEADING RUSHER with over 50 yards. Against arguably the best team in the NFL, and on the road.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:29 PM
How many points did Schaub's defense give up that game? I like logic too, let's get this on.

31 i believe

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:29 PM
What risk and reward? Aren't we just bullshitting on a message board? Is a Chiefs win really sweeter if you called it?

Nope.

Anyone who hasn't backed Cassel 100% the entire year is not allowed to enjoy it if we win.

Please return all un-used enjoyment to the ChiefsPlanet Customer Service Department via this handy, pre-paid shipping label.

Thank you.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:31 PM
Nope.

Anyone who hasn't backed Cassel 100% the entire year is not allowed to enjoy it if we win.

Please return all un-used enjoyment to the ChiefsPlanet Customer Service Department via this handy, pre-paid shipping label.

Thank you.

You dont have to return it...Just smear it all over your ass like lube and prepare for a fuckign with a Matt Cassel dildo.

Pants
11-30-2010, 06:33 PM
31 i believe

Exactly. So I guess the shitty defense only applies to Cassel in your logic, is that correct? What did Schaub do? He ****ing carried the team, and MADE the huge plays to win the game (granted the PI call helped). Cassel didn't and therein lies the difference.

Guru
11-30-2010, 06:33 PM
I think everyone has backed Cassel 100% this year. Some are just more critical than others is all.

I want everybody on the team to do well. I certainly do hope that Pioli turns out to be spot on about Cassel when it is all said and done.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 06:34 PM
Nope.

Anyone who hasn't backed Cassel 100% the entire year is not allowed to enjoy it if we win.

Please return all un-used enjoyment to the ChiefsPlanet Customer Service Department via this handy, pre-paid shipping label.

Thank you.

you can enjoy it..but part of it will ring hollow...even to you..

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:34 PM
Exactly. And what did he do? He ****ing carried the team, and MADE the huge plays to win the game (granted the PI call helped). Cassel didn't and therein lies the difference.

You're right, Cassel sucks and is the reason we lost that game. I really don't know what I was thinking...boy your 'logic' really is awesome.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:35 PM
Exactly. And what did he do? He fucking carried the team, and MADE the huge plays to win the game (granted the PI call helped). Cassel didn't and therein lies the difference.

The PI call wouldn't have mattered if Schaub had just pussied out and not made the plays prior to that.

Guy was nails the last 20 minutes of that game. Clutch.

Pants
11-30-2010, 06:35 PM
you can enjoy it..but part of it will ring hollow...even to you..

That is just a stupid thing to say, lol. Stupid - no way around it. You don't think everyone on this board who is a Chiefs fan wants to see Cassel succeed? You think like a child.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:37 PM
That is just a stupid thing to say, lol. Stupid - no way around it. You don't think everyone on this board who is a Chiefs fan wants to see Cassel succeed? You think like a child.

There have been multiple people come out and say they want the chiefs to lose so that Cassel gets cut. SO no, not everyone wants to see Cassel succeed. Most, sure....But not everyone.

Pants
11-30-2010, 06:37 PM
You're right, Cassel sucks and is the reason we lost that game. I really don't know what I was thinking...boy your 'logic' really is awesome.

No, my logic applies to the same rules to both sides of the equation. Your 'logic' chooses to ignore the rules in order to make a case for your argument.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:37 PM
You're right, Cassel sucks and is the reason we lost that game. I really don't know what I was thinking...boy your 'logic' really is awesome.

I guess this is what you resort to when you have no rebuttal?

Making arguments that aren't there?

No one said Cassel sucks. No one said Cassel is the sole reason we lost that game.

His job was to run the 4:00 offense and wind down the clock. He failed.

After that, the defense's job was to keep Houston from scoring. They failed.

They both failed, and are both partly to blame.

DeezNutz
11-30-2010, 06:38 PM
you constantly compare him to franchise qb's, and expect him to be one in year two (mainly based on contract).. then don't hold franchise qb's to the same standard.


just like you claimed they were gonna suck, and now expect them to be playoff contenders.

laughing so hard it hurts?

oh snap.

I expected it because of his age, too.

Pants
11-30-2010, 06:39 PM
There have been multiple people come out and say they want the chiefs to lose so that Cassel gets cut. SO no, not everyone wants to see Cassel succeed. Most, sure....But not everyone.

Jesus Christ. They don't want the Chiefs to win in SPITE of Cassel. They don't want to be stuck with a shitty QB. EVERYONE wants Cassel to succeed, because if Cassel succeeds, the whole team succeeds and not just in the short term, but also in the future. Another logic fail, bro. You just need to stop talking.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:39 PM
No, my logic applies to the same rules to both sides of the equation. Your 'logic' chooses to ignore the rules in order to make a case for your argument.

That is not true...You are making shit up...ANY time an offense Scores 30 points or more and the team loses, I would tend to blame the defense for the loss...I dont know where you came up with the idea that it only applied in some cases...I think you seriously are making shit up.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:39 PM
you can enjoy it..but part of it will ring hollow...even to you..

Wow.

How's everyone look from way up there?

Brock
11-30-2010, 06:40 PM
There have been multiple people come out and say they want the chiefs to lose so that Cassel gets cut. SO no, not everyone wants to see Cassel succeed. Most, sure....But not everyone.

Yeah, no.

MadMax
11-30-2010, 06:40 PM
Jesus Christ. They don't want the Chiefs to win in SPITE of Cassel. They don't want to be stuck with a shitty QB. EVERYONE wants Cassel to succeed, because if Cassel succeeds, the whole team succeeds and not just in the short term, but also in the future. Another logic fail, bro. You just need to stop talking.




Thank you...You said what I believe... :)

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:40 PM
Jesus Christ. They don't want the Chiefs to win in SPITE of Cassel. They don't want to be stuck with a shitty QB. EVERYONE wants Cassel to succeed, because if Cassel succeeds, the whole team succeeds and not just in the short term, but also in the future. Another logic fail, bro. You just need to stop talking.

maybe you need to stop talking....and read what I said. There are pople (who I have argued with) on THIS BOARD who have came out and point blank SAID they would rather see the chiefs lose so that cassel will lose his job...

You are a fuckign moron...

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:41 PM
Yeah, no.

yeah yes...

You seriously gonna make me dig up a quote...

Pants
11-30-2010, 06:41 PM
That is not true...You are making shit up...ANY time an offense Scores 30 points or more and the team loses, I would tend to blame the defense for the loss...I dont know where you came up with the idea that it only applied in some cases...I think you seriously are making shit up.

WHAT?

LOL

TEAM A scored > 30 points.
TEAM B scored > 30 points.

Both defenses failed. One QB stepped up, the other didn't. Hope that helps.

keg in kc
11-30-2010, 06:42 PM
I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Pants
11-30-2010, 06:42 PM
maybe you need to stop talking....and read what I said. There are pople (who I have argued with) on THIS BOARD who have came out and point blank SAID they would rather see the chiefs lose so that cassel will lose his job...

You are a ****ign moron...

Did you read what I just said? Arguing with you is impossible because you really can't grasp simple logic.

jd1020
11-30-2010, 06:43 PM
That is not true...You are making shit up...ANY time an offense Scores 30 points or more and the team loses, I would tend to blame the defense for the loss...I dont know where you came up with the idea that it only applied in some cases...I think you seriously are making shit up.

The offenses job is to score more points than the opposing team. The defenses job is to hold the opposing team to less points. In a loss both sides of the ball fail.

Brock
11-30-2010, 06:43 PM
yeah yes...

You seriously gonna make me dig up a quote...

I don't doubt you could find "a" quote.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:44 PM
I don't doubt you could find "a" quote.

Took me 30 seconds...and it isn't the only one

So I'm torn I want us to lose the rest to be forced to dump cassel, but losing the rest can also set back player development for those we need stick around.

Chiefs Pantalones
11-30-2010, 06:44 PM
An average QB.

One that can beat the Sisters of the Poor in the NFL, but can't win the games that matter most.

The last two weeks have shown us that he has the ability to play like an elite QB against bad teams.

Can he replicate that ability against good teams?

Against good teams on the road?

Or in a game in which Charles/TJ get shut down?

Can Matt Cassel perform like a franchise QB when his team needs him the most?

We'll find out in two weeks.

jd1020
11-30-2010, 06:45 PM
Took me 30 seconds...and it isn't the only one

You quoted half of a thought. Good job.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:45 PM
I expected it because of his age, too.

Yeah, it's not like the guy hasn't been in the league for 6 years or anything.

And it's not like there isn't a similar example up in GB to compare the situations, albeit a younger example.

One guy sat on the bench behind a HOF'er, and when given his chance to start, played like a franchise QB from Year One. No excuses.

The other guy sat on the bench behind a HOF'er, and when given his chance to start, played like an average/below average QB, and is still getting every benefit of the doubt after 40+ starts.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:46 PM
You quoted half of a thought. Good job.

fuck you...You defending this guy who wants us to lose games? FUCK YOU.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:46 PM
Jesus Christ. They don't want the Chiefs to win in SPITE of Cassel. They don't want to be stuck with a shitty QB. EVERYONE wants Cassel to succeed, because if Cassel succeeds, the whole team succeeds and not just in the short term, but also in the future. Another logic fail, bro. You just need to stop talking.

QFMFT.

DeezNutz
11-30-2010, 06:47 PM
Yeah, it's not like the guy hasn't been in the league for 6 years or anything.

And it's not like there isn't a similar example up in GB to compare the situations, albeit a younger example.

One guy sat on the bench behind a HOF'er, and when given his chance to start, played like a franchise QB from Year One. No excuses.

The other guy sat on the bench behind a HOF'er, and when given his chance to start, played like an average/below average QB, and is still getting every benefit of the doubt after 40+ starts.

One guy didn't wear a Chiefs uniform.

jd1020
11-30-2010, 06:47 PM
**** you...You defending this guy who wants us to lose games? **** YOU.

Did you even read the second part of what you quoted? You are a fuckin moron.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:49 PM
Did you even read the second part of what you quoted? You are a ****in moron.

Oh so losing the rest of the games to get rid of Cassel would be cool with you if it didn't set back player development?

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

Wow you are ****ing retarded.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 06:49 PM
One guy didn't wear a Chiefs uniform.

And boom goes the dynamite.

jd1020
11-30-2010, 06:50 PM
Oh so losing the rest of the games to get rid of Cassel would be cool with you if it didn't set back player development?

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

Wow you are ****ing retarded.

Yes is would be ok with me. As it should be with you. But if players were developing that includes Cassel.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:51 PM
Yes [Losing] would be ok with me. As it should be with you.

Did I mention FUCK YOU?

Pants
11-30-2010, 06:53 PM
I don't doubt you could find "a" quote.

Even if he finds a quote, it's still the wrong point he's making.

I understand why some might have wanted the Chiefs to lose.

If a team is playing a weak schedule and is winning in SPITE of the horrendous QB play, the QB will keep the job simply because the team is winning. Not only are then the wins built on a faulty foundation (weak schedule, good running game), the team is also hurting its position in the draft and thus eliminating the possibility of drafting a good QB. Then comes the next season and now the schedule is harder, we're stuck with the shitty QB who now costing the team wins and it all comes to a grinding halt. BAD.

NOW

IF the QB succeeds (plays well), then we don't need to worry about the former scenario. Nobody was hoping for Cassel to fail. NOBODY.

I hope this will help Pawntard understand the difference between people hoping the team loses and QB failing.

jd1020
11-30-2010, 06:53 PM
Did I mention **** YOU?

You're an idiot. There is nothing wrong with losing when there is progress being made.

Guru
11-30-2010, 06:54 PM
The main point here is that Cassel isn't going anywhere. It's time everyone accepted that. I want him to do well every week. I want him to prove those of us that are not sold on him yet wrong. I want to get back to the Chiefs being a contender every year and eventually getting over that superbowl hump.

stevieray
11-30-2010, 06:55 PM
Wow.

How's everyone look from way up there?

funny, 'cause you put yourself on the lower level, not me.

you're the one stealing from yourself.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 06:59 PM
Nobody was hoping for Cassel to fail. NOBODY.


I just pointed you out to someone who did hope for just that....did you not read it? Can you read?

Pants
11-30-2010, 07:00 PM
funny, 'cause you put yourself on the lower level, not me.

you're the one stealing from yourself.

There's nothing wrong with being a homer, stevie. However, the term itself implies that any logic is thrown out the window. I'm not quite sure why you always show up and try to make a point in an argument - you're, literally, unable to do so because you're biased. You're like a mother who loves a crackhead sucking dick for money while the rest of the world despises and/or feels sorry for him.

Pants
11-30-2010, 07:02 PM
I just pointed you out to someone who did hope for just that....did you not read it? Can you read?

Yeah, I read it. I don't see where he said he wanted Cassel to fail. I see where he said he wanted the team to lose. It fits perfectly with what I outlined in my post. Why don't you go read it again , champ.

KChiefs1
11-30-2010, 07:03 PM
I just keep picturing Cassel throwing to Bowe, Moeaki, McCluster & Larry Fitzgerald next year along with Charles in the backfield!

That's a real nice offense.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 07:03 PM
You're like a mother who would love a crackhead sucking dick for money while the rest of the world despised and/or felt sorry for him.

So if you had a daughter who turned out to be a prostitute and smoked crack you would stop loving her?

Interesting insight into your one dimensional soul, thank you.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 07:03 PM
funny, 'cause you put yourself on the lower level, not me.

you're the one stealing from yourself.

:spock:

OK, Steve.

I'm sorry that you don't hold the ability to not only live and die with this team, but be able to be critical when necessary without fear of damaging your superfan rep. Most of us can do both.

But please, continue claiming that I'm "stealing from myself" if you think that makes you a better fan.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 07:04 PM
Yeah, I read it. I don't see where he said he wanted Cassel to fail.

Oh so you didn't see where he wanted cassel to lose his job?

Or you didnt realize losing a job = fail

Or are you just a fucking douche troll?

The Bad Guy
11-30-2010, 07:04 PM
I've seen Stevie be plenty critical over the years.

Brock
11-30-2010, 07:06 PM
Jesus, back to this tiresome who's a true fan shit?

Pants
11-30-2010, 07:06 PM
So if you had a daughter who turned out to be a prostitute and smoked crack you would stop loving her?

Interesting insight into your one dimensional soul, thank you.

No, I would not. You see, I would have unconditional love for my daughter which would prevent me from being rational when looking at her. I have the ability to be rational when I look at the Chiefs. Neither you nor steveie can claim the same. It's not a bad thing, it just makes you look stupid when you try to argue. It would be like me saying my crackhead, slut of a daughter was an outstanding citizen of our society.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 07:07 PM
Jesus, back to this tiresome who's a true fan shit?

Apparently Stevie is the truest...but I am getting there.

Pants
11-30-2010, 07:07 PM
Oh so you didn't see where he wanted cassel to lose his job?

Or you didnt realize losing a job = fail

Or are you just a ****ing douche troll?

Yes, he wanted Cassel to lose his job BECAUSE he was failing. Nowhere in that post did he say "Jeez, Cassel is playing lights out, I hope that guy starts playing like shit."

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 07:08 PM
It would be like me saying my crackhead, slut of a daughter was an outstanding citizen of our society.

You changed your words after you realized how stupid they were.

DaneMcCloud
11-30-2010, 07:09 PM
Or are you just a fucking douche troll?

You know, I hate to interject into your love fest but you've been a member of this site for less than a year, correct?

I hope you understand that calling people trolls, people that have been around for three, four, five and even ten years is not only incorrect, but stupid as well?

Okay, back to the love fest.

Pants
11-30-2010, 07:09 PM
You changed your words after you realized how stupid they were.

Huh?

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 07:09 PM
Nowhere in that post did he say "Jeez, Cassel is playing lights out, I hope that guy starts playing like shit."


That isn't what we were talking about. You like to change other people's words to fit your arguments, don't you?

zonachief
11-30-2010, 07:10 PM
And what if he fails Sunday?

Or in STL?

You might find it funny, I don't.

Look around the league. 8 of the 12 division leaders have elite QB's.

It's a QB driven league, and will be for quite a while, I think.

He's 28 years old, and he's yet to prove he can win an important road game against a solid opponent. He's yet to show that if parts of the team are faltering, he can put the team on his back and win.

I don't see what the issue is in needing to see that happen at least once before we say the guy is a ****ing franchise QB.

If the team falters, you guys are going to rip Cassel and blame him for digging a hole for the team anyways... Its a lose-lose arguement. Until Cassel dies or wins a nobel prize, a medal of honor AND 7 superbowls it will be the same back and forth on here.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 07:11 PM
You know, I hate to interject into your love fest but you've been a member of this site for less than a year, correct?

I hope you understand that calling people trolls, people that have been around for three, four, five and even ten years is not only incorrect, but stupid as well?

Being here for a length of time does not mean you aren't a troll...last I checked...

I can't for the life of me understand why this person would keep arguing a basic fact I just proved to him 100%..Thats why I assumed he was a troll..

My bad if mistaken.

DaneMcCloud
11-30-2010, 07:13 PM
Being here for a length of time does not mean you aren't a troll...last I checked...

I can't for the life of me understand why this person would keep arguing a basic fact I just proved to him 100%..Thats why I assumed he was a troll..

My bad if mistaken.

Apparently, you haven't learned much about this site.

If Pants were a true troll (which he is NOT), his rep would be FAR into the red.

Secondly, my advice would be to get to know the members here a little better before using the "troll" word because it only weakens your argument.

Pants
11-30-2010, 07:14 PM
That isn't what we were talking about. You like to change other people's words to fit your arguments, don't you?

No, that is precisely what we're talking about here. You just don't understand causality. The poster you quoted wanted Cassel to be dropped BECAUSE he was failing. Failing as a QB doesn't mean getting fired. There have been plenty of failures playing for teams BEFORE they got fired. It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 07:17 PM
No, that is precisely what we're talking about here. You just don't understand causality. The poster you quoted wanted Cassel to be dropped BECAUSE he was failing.

No He didn't.

You're wrong. He wanted the Chiefs to fail so that Cassel would lose his job.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 07:17 PM
If the team falters, you guys are going to rip Cassel and blame him for digging a hole for the team anyways... Its a lose-lose arguement. Until Cassel dies or wins a nobel prize, a medal of honor AND 7 superbowls it will be the same back and forth on here.

Uh, yeah, none of us saw this coming.

Who here had a concern that the QB position could potentially hold us back, whether it be over the entire season, or on a game-to-game basis?

That's the whole point. "Better" isn't good enough.

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that if Cassel had played the Texans, Raiders and Broncos games like he played the Arizona and Seattle games, we would have won those games, and wouldn't be sweating the last 5 weeks?

He was brought here under the pretense he's a franchise QB that can win the big games.

Time to prove it.

TheGuardian
11-30-2010, 07:18 PM
Dane has pretty much said anything I was going to say.

Even if Cassel shits the bed against the Chargers it doesn't change anything. So did Manning. What really matters is the whole body of work. If the guy has a 30 TD - 10 INT season, uhhhhh he's our guy. STFU about drafting some guy or trading for someone else. This whole "the numbers lie" stuff is bullshit at this point in the season. Do some of you fuck faces understand that? Sure, numbers can lie for a few games, but not over the course of a whole fucking season. If he goes 3400 for 30 TD's and 8-10 picks, his numbers are bullshit? Fuck you. That's insane and fucking stupid to reach like that.

I think Cassel will continue to ascend as well. I think he's probably our guy and some people better fucking get used to it.

Hog Farmer
11-30-2010, 07:18 PM
I still say he turns back into a pumpkin against the Chargers.

We can't be this lucky.

This will definitely show where he's truly at ! And nice article. Hey , I was on the Cassel Sucks bandwagon too. It's OK to change opinions. Cassel changed so we can too.

TheGuardian
11-30-2010, 07:19 PM
I will say it again.

1 game is not going to say what/where Cassel is. It's so fucking stupid I can't believe some of you are really hanging your hat on that.

Pants
11-30-2010, 07:20 PM
No He didn't.

You're wrong. He wanted the Chiefs to fail so that Cassel would lose his job.

He wanted the Chiefs to stop winning IN SPITE of Cassel who was failing in order for him to get fired. Yes. This is exactly what I've been saying this whole time. If logic was water, your mind would be the Sahara desert.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 07:21 PM
No He didn't.

You're wrong. He wanted the Chiefs to fail so that Cassel would lose his job.

First, you're dead wrong.

Second, you've found 1 post from 1 member on a forum that hosts over 10,000 members.

One poster saying something that you can't comprehend doesn't make it universally so.

Your argument is full of holes, and pointless.

Move on.

jd1020
11-30-2010, 07:23 PM
Dane has pretty much said anything I was going to say.

Even if Cassel shits the bed against the Chargers it doesn't change anything. So did Manning. What really matters is the whole body of work. If the guy has a 30 TD - 10 INT season, uhhhhh he's our guy. STFU about drafting some guy or trading for someone else. This whole "the numbers lie" stuff is bullshit at this point in the season. Do some of you **** faces understand that? Sure, numbers can lie for a few games, but not over the course of a whole ****ing season. If he goes 3400 for 30 TD's and 8-10 picks, his numbers are bullshit? **** you. That's insane and ****ing stupid to reach like that.

I think Cassel will continue to ascend as well. I think he's probably our guy and some people better ****ing get used to it.

I will agree he is our guy by default. He's the best option we have and he's played well enough this season to assure himself of that bonus he's owed. However I still dont believe that we'll do anything beyond a playoff berth with him under center.

Pants
11-30-2010, 07:23 PM
I will say it again.

1 game is not going to say what/where Cassel is. It's so ****ing stupid I can't believe some of you are really hanging your hat on that.

Cassel has shown incredible progress. I think people are just going to look at his mechanics during the SD game. If the Chiefs lose the game but Cassel doesn't revert to locking onto one receiver, shitting himself under pressure and running away at the slightest sign of pass rush and throwing fucking ducks, people will remain hopeful for the future.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 07:24 PM
He wanted the Chiefs to stop winning IN SPITE of Cassel who was failing in order for him to get fired. Yes. This is exactly what I've been saying this whole time. If logic was water, your mind would be the Sahara desert.

Look man, here is the post. It has nothing to do with Cassel failing. The guy just doesnt think Cassel can win a ring....Please, it is painfully obvious you didnt read this thread....so here, here it is.

I'm always torn, I recognize that so long as we have cassel we will never win a super bowl. Given that does it really matter than much the record is? The only acceptable outcome to a season is a super bowl victory. If losing the rest of the games the season forces us to acknowledge that we will never go anywhere with cassel and dump him then this season will be a winning one. But then again you like to see improvement and breeding a winning culture because you will never win without that either.

So I'm torn I want us to lose the rest to be forced to dump cassel, but losing the rest can also set back player development for those we need stick around.


If you can't acknowledge that this guy wanted the CHiefs to lose games to get rid of cassel....Then I really can't say much more. You are looking at the same words I am. The guy made this post THIS MONTH.

doomy3
11-30-2010, 07:24 PM
I haven't read this thread and just jumped to the last page.

So I'm not sure exactly what the discussion is, but there were definitely people on this board who flat out said they would prefer the Chiefs get blown out of games if it meant that Cassel would be shown the door.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 07:26 PM
I will say it again.

1 game is not going to say what/where Cassel is. It's so fucking stupid I can't believe some of you are really hanging your hat on that.

Who said one game defines everything?

I've seen people say that it will have a huge influence - and it should - he's never won a meaningful game, much less on the road in a must win situation.

You're right, we all need to get used to him as the QB, because he's going nowhere.

That doesn't mean he's capable of leading this organization to a championship.

If at some point, he wins a big game against a playoff caliber team, especially on the road, I think more people will believe that he "might" be the answer.

Until then, he' still just a guy with gaudy stats earned against the bottom of the NFL barrel.

FWIW, I'm praying this guy becomes a franchise QB and wins us a SB.

zonachief
11-30-2010, 07:27 PM
Would it be safe to say that most Cassel haters here were Trent haters too? I like(d) them Both. I like the leadership and intangibles they offer. Trent had an awful first year in KC.. 24 ints if i recall correctly.

tonyetony
11-30-2010, 07:27 PM
Cassel has shown incredible progress. I think people are just going to look at his mechanics during the SD game. If the Chiefs lose the game but Cassel doesn't revert to locking onto one receiver, shitting himself under pressure and running away at the slightest sign of pass rush and throwing ****ing ducks, people will remain hopeful for the future.

I agree with that but...I also think that if our D can hold the Chargers to less than 24 points and we run for over 130 yards Cassel will probably hold up his end of the deal.

It's a team sport deal with it.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 07:27 PM
Cassel has shown incredible progress. I think people are just going to look at his mechanics during the SD game. If the Chiefs lose the game but Cassel doesn't revert to locking onto one receiver, shitting himself under pressure and running away at the slightest sign of pass rush and throwing fucking ducks, people will remain hopeful for the future.

Very much this.

TheGuardian
11-30-2010, 07:29 PM
I will agree he is our guy by default. He's the best option we have and he's played well enough this season to assure himself of that bonus he's owed. However I still dont believe that we'll do anything beyond a playoff berth with him under center.

A lot of people didn't think he'd progress like he has this season either.

If someone told you after 11 games that Cassel would have 22 Td's and 4 picks you would have said bullshit.

We have a top 5 QB for the 2010 season. Can he continue that learning curve upward? I think he has a good chance. He's a hard worker and wants to win. That goes a long ways.

I mean, I have to remind myself that even after a very solid first season at OLB some people here said Hali had already reached his ceiling and wasn't very good. So......

Pants
11-30-2010, 07:30 PM
Look man, here is the post. It has nothing to do with Cassel failing. The guy just doesnt think Cassel can win a ring....Please, it is painfully obvious you didnt read this thread....so here, here it is.




If you can't acknowledge that this guy wanted the CHiefs to lose games to get rid of cassel....Then I really can't say much more. You are looking at the same words I am.

Yes. Once again, Cassel was failing as the QB with no signs of progress at the time. I'm assuming the post was made before the AZ game. A failure of a QB would not be able to win a SB and as such the guy was half-willing (on ONE HAND) to sacrifice ONE season in order to get a chance at a franchise QB who might eventually lead us to the promise land. You're dense, bro. I mean ****ing 'neutron star' dense.

TheGuardian
11-30-2010, 07:33 PM
Rivers hasn't won a ring yet either, and has looked like shit in the playoffs.

They should cut his ass.

Pawnmower
11-30-2010, 07:34 PM
Yes. Once again, Cassel was failing as the QB with no signs of progress at the time.

According to who? The post was only from a couple of weeks ago....

Look if you want to make excuses for the guy and defend someone who WANTS the Chiefs to lose...You go right ahead...

I feel dumber for having to have had to talk to you for this long, proving a FACT to you time and time again....

You probably are one of the dumbest people I have encountered here.

Good day.

patteeu
11-30-2010, 07:40 PM
My eyes are wide open. I've seen a comfortable QB taking advantage of a #1 run offense the last 2 weeks against god awful defenses. Denver stuffed the run 3 weeks ago and Cassel couldnt get 1 first down. We dont know what we have yet. All we know is that there is a POTENTIAL for something. Every player that is drafted has ****in POTENTIAL.

This x1000.

Except he did make first downs in that game, even on the first three I'll-fated drives.

zonachief
11-30-2010, 07:43 PM
awesome sig patteeu

FAX
11-30-2010, 07:45 PM
This is an utterly confounding situation. The Cassel Conundrum is a riddle wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma, stuffed in a secret memo, slathered with Crisco, and jammed up Julian Assange's pee hole.

I have never before seen the Cassel I saw on Sunday. It was like watching Lazarus walk out of the tomb, join the croquet club, and hit a triple wicket.

FAX

jd1020
11-30-2010, 07:56 PM
Except he did make first downs in that game, even on the first three I'll-fated drives.

Short passes that turned into 12/18 yards and penalties called against Denver are firstdowns that Cassel got? Ok?... He got 1 first down with a deep pass to Bowe and then took 2 sacks right after that.

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2010, 07:57 PM
Rivers hasn't won a ring yet either, and has looked like shit in the playoffs.

They should cut his ass.

Yeah, he's been terrible.

Like that game where he drove the field in Indy to force OT, then went and won it.

Like that game where he played with a torn ACL.

For the most part, he's played pretty damn well in the playoffs.

Last three years he's completed 61%, thrown for 320 a game, and has a level TD/INT ratio.

Again, Rivers has proven he's a franchise QB.

Another retarded comparison.

DeezNutz
11-30-2010, 07:57 PM
This is an utterly confounding situation. The Cassel Conundrum is a riddle wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma, stuffed in a secret memo, slathered with Crisco, and jammed up Julian Assange's pee hole.

I have never before seen the Cassel I saw on Sunday. It was like watching Lazarus walk out of the tomb, join the croquet club, and hit a triple wicket.

FAX

He's been improving all season, so I'm not sure how you could have missed this.

Guru
11-30-2010, 07:59 PM
This is an utterly confounding situation. The Cassel Conundrum is a riddle wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma, stuffed in a secret memo, slathered with Crisco, and jammed up Julian Assange's pee hole.

I have never before seen the Cassel I saw on Sunday. It was like watching Lazarus walk out of the tomb, join the croquet club, and hit a triple wicket.

FAX

ROFL you are one messed up MF. And I mean that in a good way. :thumb:

Pants
11-30-2010, 08:03 PM
According to who? The post was only from a couple of weeks ago....

Look if you want to make excuses for the guy and defend someone who WANTS the Chiefs to lose...You go right ahead...

I feel dumber for having to have had to talk to you for this long, proving a FACT to you time and time again....

You probably are one of the dumbest people I have encountered here.

Good day.

Like I said, you're not rational. I don't know if it's because you're a homer like stevieray or because you're retarded. Please provide an actual link to the post in question so we can see when it was made.

I will always defend sacrificing a season now for the future success of the franchise.