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View Full Version : Chiefs Why does Todd Haley hate field goals?


KCChiefsFan88
12-05-2010, 05:01 PM
Memo to Haley... it is not the end of the world to settle for 3 points... ESPECIALLY IN A LOW SCORING GAME.

Electing to punt rather than kick a 51 yard field goal and then bypassing the field goal on 4th down near the goal line.

It is dumb, border-line reckless game management to not take the points.

|Zach|
12-05-2010, 05:02 PM
Hahahaha.

I totally forgot about you.

Ahh...good times.

KCrockaholic
12-05-2010, 05:02 PM
Because he's not Herm.

He plays to win the game.

Bane
12-05-2010, 05:03 PM
**** you N00B.Take my order at the drive thru and I'll run the football team bitch /Todd Haley

scho63
12-05-2010, 05:04 PM
I agree-I like taking a risk once in a while but that call was total horse sh*t!!! Kick the FG.

Bad risk / reward call

|Zach|
12-05-2010, 05:06 PM
Long FG no go doesn't bother me. Long kick...cold hard ball. Doubt he makes it.

LaChapelle
12-05-2010, 05:06 PM
Look at last weeks game for Denver agaist the Rams
they can score points in a motherfucking hurry

cdcox
12-05-2010, 05:07 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2618/3688516023_07450826e5_o.png

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/4th-down-study-part-4.html

kstater
12-05-2010, 05:08 PM
Because TD's win games.

BigCatDaddy
12-05-2010, 05:08 PM
I agree, being up 2 scores compared to one really changes what the other team will try to do. It really hasn't come back to bite us in the ass yet, but it will. I still love the guy though and I think he will get a better handle on when to go for it on 4th.

jd1020
12-05-2010, 05:10 PM
He'll keep making those dumb decisions until he loses a game because of it. I hate it when he does it and I'd even like to know how many possible points have been left on the field this season because of it. He's always said hes going to go for it on 4th down when he's around the 40ish in enemy territory, so he obviously doesnt mind giving the opposing team the ball around there. Then he punts the ball today instead of trying a 51 yard FG? wtf? Later he's up by 7 and goes for it instead of kicking an extra point to make a 2 score game?... Good teams take advantage when given a second chance. Haley is going to have to put aside his ego if/when we get in the playoffs.

kysirsoze
12-05-2010, 05:11 PM
It was the right call. The stats don't lie.

BigCatDaddy
12-05-2010, 05:12 PM
I also wouldn't have a problem with it if we weren't so damn horrible and short to go situations.

CupidStunt
12-05-2010, 05:15 PM
Fine call to go for it down at the goal line. Cassel should've thrown it away and they'd have been pinned back at the 2. Not that it mattered.

Punting rather than kicking the 51-yard FG (or just going for it) was a bad call IMO. Luckily they didn't punt it into the endzone, but that's generally not a positive play.

LaChapelle
12-05-2010, 05:17 PM
The D should be getting far more love
for holding them to 6 points

Bane
12-05-2010, 05:18 PM
The D should be getting far more love
for holding them to 6 points

True,but they also should have had a bout 4 INT's.

LaChapelle
12-05-2010, 05:20 PM
At least McGraw didn't come up gimpy
on this last missed INT LOL

alnorth
12-05-2010, 05:22 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2618/3688516023_07450826e5_o.png

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/4th-down-study-part-4.html

interesting. In this particular situation it was apparently a marginal call either way.

Most coaches are far, FAR too conservative, a coach who likes to gamble a little bit is more likely to make the right decision than a coach who is constantly terrified about losing by a couple points.

Sweet Daddy Hate
12-05-2010, 05:38 PM
This thread is Schottenheimer-Approved for your protection.

Rain Man
12-05-2010, 05:40 PM
I'm fine with the call, and I think most coaches are wimps for not doing it. The downside in this situation was taking an 84 yard sack or whatever it was. Weis is getting a little predictable in passing in these situations.

BigRichard
12-05-2010, 05:43 PM
I like the calls. If Matt isn't a complete fucktard they would have at least pinned them deep.

cdcox
12-06-2010, 11:40 AM
Tom Cable went for it twice on 4th and 1 yesterday, putting the Chargers in a 14-0 hole from which they never emerged. We may very well owe our season to those types of unconventional calls. For his shrewd coaching decisions, Tom Cable was recognized as AdvancedNFLStats coach of the week.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/12/advanced-nfl-stats-coach-of-week.html

Hog Farmer
12-06-2010, 11:48 AM
I started hollering at the tV when we were going for it on 4th and goal. I knew it was a mistake to not go up by 2 scores and sure enough Cassel got sacked for a billion yards. GD I was pissed. That was not a good decision.

InChiefsHell
12-06-2010, 11:50 AM
I started hollering at the tV when we were going for it on 4th and goal. I knew it was a mistake to not go up by 2 scores and sure enough Cassel got sacked for a billion yards. GD I was pissed. That was not a good decision.

Indeed. If you are going to go for it, either run the thing or roll out, but don't take a long drop...shit, what was that, about a 12 yard sack?

PhillyChiefFan
12-06-2010, 11:52 AM
The D should be getting far more love
for holding them to 6 points

This. x1000

That game was won by the defense.

They let Moreno run wild on one drive but then sealed up to prevent a TD. I think it speaks volumes to the defense that a pretty damn good offense stayed out of the endzone.

King_Chief_Fan
12-06-2010, 11:54 AM
Memo to Haley... it is not the end of the world to settle for 3 points... ESPECIALLY IN A LOW SCORING GAME.

Electing to punt rather than kick a 51 yard field goal and then bypassing the field goal on 4th down near the goal line.

It is dumb, border-line reckless game management to not take the points.

Herm Edwards will agree with this...:D

Mr. Arrowhead
12-06-2010, 12:01 PM
FG are for pussies!! Remember Herm loved FG's as it kept the score down so went dont go arena on your ass.

Demonpenz
12-06-2010, 12:02 PM
Yeah Haley get yur shit together, I bout choked on a chicken plank watching airwolf.

tooge
12-06-2010, 12:05 PM
thread title reminds me of the scene in the movie The Jerk where the guy starts shooting at Navin Johnson. Johnson says, "he hates these cans. Stay away from the cans"

FAX
12-06-2010, 12:07 PM
Some people complained about electricity. Innovation isn't always bad.

It was a sucker play ... we had already convinced the goats they could run the ball. Very trickery, right there. Plus, the nickle defense took away their pass game. Anyhow, if we don't get the touchdown, they mistakenly believe they can go 99 yards using the run. Worse case burns clock and gives us good field position when they punt. All is not as it seems in the mind of a cat burger.

Cassel shouldn't have taken that sack, though. He regressed yesterday.

FAX

HemiEd
12-06-2010, 12:10 PM
Indeed. If you are going to go for it, either run the thing or roll out, but don't take a long drop...shit, what was that, about a 12 yard sack?

18 I believe. Cassel looked like it was October again. Ocallaghan blocked the wrong guy, and of course Cassel didn't make the right decision.

Donger
12-06-2010, 12:12 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2618/3688516023_07450826e5_o.png

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/4th-down-study-part-4.html

Doesn't that graph "say" that the FG should have been kicked instead of going for it?

zonachief
12-06-2010, 12:21 PM
check the avatar.

Sent from my PC36100 usicheng Tapatalk

Portlantis
12-06-2010, 12:30 PM
He'll keep making those dumb decisions until he loses a game because of it. I hate it when he does it and I'd even like to know how many possible points have been left on the field this season because of it. He's always said hes going to go for it on 4th down when he's around the 40ish in enemy territory, so he obviously doesnt mind giving the opposing team the ball around there. Then he punts the ball today instead of trying a 51 yard FG? wtf? Later he's up by 7 and goes for it instead of kicking an extra point to make a 2 score game?... Good teams take advantage when given a second chance. Haley is going to have to put aside his ego if/when we get in the playoffs.

And how many points would we have left on the field this year had we kicked field goals on all the drives where we converted a 4th-and-short and then scored a touchdown?

Yes, Haley has an unconditional approach to these situations, but, as other posters have mentioned, there is a lot of statistical evidence that suggests he's right.

WebGem
12-06-2010, 12:33 PM
Message board coaches make me laugh

Rain Man
12-06-2010, 12:37 PM
thread title reminds me of the scene in the movie The Jerk where the guy starts shooting at Navin Johnson. Johnson says, "he hates these cans. Stay away from the cans"


Loved that scene. And then during it the guy shot a soda machine on one of his misses and Navin said, "There's cans in there!"

I for one applaud Haley's gunslinger mentality. Success in the NFL is about innovation, and he's an innovator. He's not afraid to play the odds when they're in his favor instead of tucking tail and doing what the retread coaches would do.

chiefsnorth
12-06-2010, 12:38 PM
He'll keep making those dumb decisions until he loses a game because of it. I hate it when he does it and I'd even like to know how many possible points have been left on the field this season because of it. He's always said hes going to go for it on 4th down when he's around the 40ish in enemy territory, so he obviously doesnt mind giving the opposing team the ball around there. Then he punts the ball today instead of trying a 51 yard FG? wtf? Later he's up by 7 and goes for it instead of kicking an extra point to make a 2 score game?... Good teams take advantage when given a second chance. Haley is going to have to put aside his ego if/when we get in the playoffs.

The first sentence of this post is funny. He's been doing it all year and we are still waiting for it to cost us a game? Is it really dumb then?

Bowser
12-06-2010, 12:39 PM
Give me an aggressive minded approach to Herm coaching any day. It might well cost us some games at one point, but how many games did the Herm and Marty approach cost us?

Frosty
12-06-2010, 12:46 PM
I for one applaud Haley's gunslinger mentality. Success in the NFL is about innovation, and he's an innovator. He's not afraid to play the odds when they're in his favor instead of tucking tail and doing what the retread coaches would do.

True. I was actually more miffed that he punted from the 33 earlier in the game. I guess that wasn't a "4 downs" drive.

Rain Man
12-06-2010, 12:48 PM
Give me an aggressive minded approach to Herm coaching any day. It might well cost us some games at one point, but how many games did the Herm and Marty approach cost us?

All of the important ones, that's for sure.


The thing that's not mentioned about Todd's approach is that it's going to break the jinx. Whenever we have a playoff game our kicker misses a field goal, and usually an important one. That's not going to happen under Todd's Touchdown Policy.

alnorth
12-06-2010, 12:50 PM
Doesn't that graph "say" that the FG should have been kicked instead of going for it?

It looks like the line tracks exactly with yards and to go up to 6. To me, I think the graph is basically saying (unless its to win the game or something) that you should never kick a field goal if you are within the 7 yard line.

DaWolf
12-06-2010, 01:39 PM
Pioli asked Herm what his philosophy was as a head coach. Herm replied "Punting is good and I love field goals." Pioli then determined that this was the reason Herm sucked and fired him and hired the polar opposite in Haley.

In reality, I think it is a good thing for Haley to instill the mindset into his team that we need to score TD's rather than field goals and that every play is critical because we're not going to settle for less. I do think however he needs to adjust that moving forward to take the field goal where it is tactically a superior option, as it would have been yesterday...

Donger
12-06-2010, 01:46 PM
It looks like the line tracks exactly with yards and to go up to 6. To me, I think the graph is basically saying (unless its to win the game or something) that you should never kick a field goal if you are within the 7 yard line.

It was 4th and goal on the two yard line, wasn't it?

Pushead2
12-06-2010, 01:50 PM
I also wouldn't have a problem with it if we weren't so damn horrible and short to go situations.

I believe we are bad in situations because of the play call. On the 4th & 1, if it wasn't for Thomas Jones making the play....he would have been blown up in the backfield.

gman1989
12-06-2010, 02:01 PM
Haley knows what he is doin gotta love it, its about power before accuracy fellors

Rain Man
12-06-2010, 02:04 PM
Pioli asked Herm what his philosophy was as a head coach. Herm replied "Punting is good and I love field goals." Pioli then determined that this was the reason Herm sucked and fired him and hired the polar opposite in Haley.

In reality, I think it is a good thing for Haley to instill the mindset into his team that we need to score TD's rather than field goals and that every play is critical because we're not going to settle for less. I do think however he needs to adjust that moving forward to take the field goal where it is tactically a superior option, as it would have been yesterday...


It would've been fun to hear the conversation between Pioli and Hunt regarding whether they should keep Herm Edwards.

C-Mac
12-06-2010, 05:27 PM
The D should be getting far more love
for holding them to 6 points

Agreed:thumb:

I understand that that is the lowest scoring output for the Broncos since 1971!

Quite impressive actually.

Chocolate Hog
12-06-2010, 05:29 PM
I think it's about setting a mindset that this team isn't going to settle for less. No coincidence this is the 6th ranked offense in the league.

alnorth
12-06-2010, 05:33 PM
It was 4th and goal on the two yard line, wasn't it?

yeah, so look at where 2 and 2 is. that seems to be on the line. same with 1 and 1 up to 6 and 6, which suggests the graph is saying "forget about field goals until the 7 yard line", unless its to win the game.