PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs Ten Things About Today's Game


gblowfish
12-05-2010, 05:01 PM
Ten Things About Today's Game

10. I knew it was going to be a weird day when the dude doing the National Anthem forgot the frickin' words. He had two shots at it, and got it wrong both times. And, since he screwed up, the fly over by two fighter jets was late, which probably cost the taxpayers a couple extra thousand dollars in jet fuel as the fighters had to adjust their approach to the stadium. Guess they'll have to start putting the words on the scoreboard so these fools don't blow their lines in front of 70,000 people.

9. This is going to sound really weird, but Denver is NOT a cold weather team. Average mean temperature in Denver in December is around 45 degrees. Sure, they get a lot of snow, but they also get a lot of 50 and 60 degree December days, and when it does snow, it melts off pretty fast. They don't get ball numbing, long term cold like we get it here in KC. Denver has a long record of playing poorly in KC in December. They've done fine in January (playoff games) but never play well here in December. Today was cold, but not terrible, Colts Playoff Game kinda cold. It seems like the new addition to the top of Arrowhead throws shadows further across the field now, so the playing surface is pretty much all in the shade by the second half. I think Denver's passing game was really slowed down by the cold, and that's one reason they ran Moreno so much in the second half.

8. Today's difference was pass defense, time management and time of possession. When you give up six points, that's a great day on defense, no matter who you are playing. Chief won time of possession by around 15 minutes, so we had the ball almost a full quarter more than the Donks did today. That keeps Orton off the field, which keeps the defense fresher- a big factor in the fourth quarter. Crowd noise was excellent today. Denver had to burn an early timeout because of offensive confusion, which really cost them at the end of the game. Chiefs time management was played perfectly in the last two minutes of the game. That's something Herm could never seem to master. Today it was part of the fine line between winning and losing.

7. Why can't our D-Backs catch? Carr dropped at least two picks today, McGraw and Berry both dropped one too. Denver should have had three or four turnovers today, but our guys just couldn't catch. The defensive backs did knock down several passes today, and really played up tight on Denver's receivers. Tight End was non-existent for Denver. I was a bit dismayed at how many rushing yards were given up to Moreno. That needs to improve, especially in December when we face Tennessee and St. Louis, who can both run the ball effectively.

6. Big props to all the Brandon's today. Brandon Albert played well coming back from being dinged up. They ran behind him and Waters a bunch, and both Jones and Charles were pretty good between the tackles. Brandon Flowers really gutted up today. He was having problems with his injured right thigh all day, and was either on the bike on the sidelines or getting rubbed down by the trainers during down time all day long. He had to be literally carried off the field after the game. Looked like he was cramping up. Hope he didn't make his injury worse. Brandon Carr played his best game as a Chief, as he probably knocked down a half dozen pass attempts, and laid a great hit across the middle to force an incompletion in the second half.

5. Pass rush re-appeared with Tamba Hali, even though he's still being held a lot. I don't know why he doesn't generate the holding calls, like (for example) Freeney in Indianapolis or Richard Seymour in Oakland get. He's very quick off the edge, and gets a lot of hands to the face and holds on the shoulder pads against him. On the other side, Tyson Jackson was terrible today. Lots of Denver's rushing yards were right at him. I'm thinking he may be another Junior Siiavi. Break out the spit hood, we're gonna need it.

4. Barry Richardson went off on a coach on the sideline. They pulled him after jumping offsides on goal line, and sent O'Callahan in. He was hot, like he didn't think he did anything wrong. I'll have to check the TV replay, but he may have thought he was drawn off. I did see him push the special teams coach pretty hard, and he was really storming around on the sideline. He was ultra pissed to be pulled from the game. But he was right back in on the next series, so the coaches must not be too pissed at him. You can't shove a coach. That's off limits and a good way to get cut. Hope BRich learns to keep his cool. Also, there was a play in the third quarter where Carr broke up a pass to Lloyd, and way after the play Gaffney (#10) came over a shoved Carr and tried to start up some shit with him. Did you guys see that on TV? Berry went over to get in the middle of it, but the refs broke it up before it could get worse.

3. Bowe was pretty much shut down by Bailey. That OPI call on Bowe was total BS. That play was right in front of me. Cassel under threw the pass -as is normal for Cassel- and Bowe just pulled up, jumped for the ball and came down with it. He did not push off. The side judge (#21) that made that call was laughing about it to the Chiefs bench right afterwards. The fans were giving it to him with both barrels. I believe he was also the ref that threw the flag on McCluster's 50-plus yard run. Guy was a total tool and really did his best to keep the Donks in the game. I hope they cavity search him without vaseline at the airport tonight.

2. Haley's riverboat gambling could have very well cost us this game. You have to come away with some points after the Richardson penalty and kick the damn field goal, and make it a two possession game. When the rest of the third quarter unfolded with killed drives on penalties, and the McCluster fumble, the game got extremely tight. We lucked out today. I don't know why Denver decided to punt at the two minute mark. They had a reasonable fourth down distance that could have been made. After punting away, they gave up one first down, and that was the difference in the game. Again, it's a matter of time management, and they couldn't manage.

1. As I'm writing this, Oakland leads San Diego 21-13 with about eight minutes left. If we can go into SD with a two game bulge next week, that would be huge. KC is not out of the woods yet. But know this: I'll never lament a win. It was a twisted thing of ugly beauty today! Too bad we didn't totally kick the Donks ass, but this might be the win that gets us the division. And #51 Mays went out hurt, which is some karma payback for the cheap hit on Moeaki three weeks ago. And now that we have eight wins, we will not have a losing season. Usually we win one each year where nobody gives us a chance (example: vs.Pittsburgh last year). We really haven't had that game yet. Maybe this week coming? If we could go into SD and steal a win, how sweet would that be? Even if we have to put some playoff bucks on the credit card right before Christmas, that would be a beau-ti-ful thing!

jd1020
12-05-2010, 05:02 PM
Our D-Backs cant catch because they are on defense and not on offensive lined up wide right.

grandllama
12-05-2010, 05:07 PM
Spot on as always Blowfish

tyler360
12-05-2010, 05:08 PM
I think Carr is a very underrated player for us.

He is finally getting his head turned around to make plays. That was always his problem IMO. He was always in position, but he just did not turn his head to make a play on the ball. Now he is starting to do that and look at the result.

Count Zarth
12-05-2010, 05:09 PM
I'm glad your season tickets are worth it this year, Blo.

Rudy lost the toss
12-05-2010, 05:10 PM
The Cassel throw to Bowe was perfect.

Three7s
12-05-2010, 05:11 PM
Our D-Backs cant catch because they are on defense and not on offensive lined up wide right.
So you're saying it's okay to never get an interception for the whole year?

Deberg_1990
12-05-2010, 05:11 PM
It seems like the new addition to the top of Arrowhead throws shadows further across the field now, so the playing surface is pretty much all in the shade by the second half

I noticed that on TV too.....is that a good thing or a bad thing you think?

Bearcat
12-05-2010, 05:12 PM
That OPI call on Bowe was total BS. That play was right in front of me. Cassel under threw the pass -as is normal for Cassel- and Bowe just pulled up, jumped for the ball and came down with it. He did not push off. The side judge (#21) that made that call was laughing about it to the Chiefs bench right afterwards. The fans were giving it to him with both barrels. I believe he was also the ref that threw the flag on McCluster's 50-plus yard run. Guy was a total tool and really did his best to keep the Donks in the game. I hope they cavity search him without vaseline at the airport tonight.


:#

There was a Bronco fan sitting behind us that started complaining about the refs after the game and a few of us were too shocked to respond. The horseshit on McCluster's big play was right in front of us, and along with the Bowe OPI and a couple of PI non-calls (I think thrown to Moeaki both times), the officiating was awful... and I'm not one to complain about refs.

TheGuardian
12-05-2010, 05:14 PM
Joe Mays getting hurt was the second best thing about the game today, besides winning. My only fear is that it's only a minor injury, and not a life threatening one.

gblowfish
12-05-2010, 05:15 PM
I noticed that on TV too.....is that a good thing or a bad thing you think?

I'll tell you a story about the sidelines. One year under Marty, we were playing the Houston Oilers with Warren Moon. They switched sidelines before the game, because the visiting sideline (on the north side of the field) is in the sun most of the game. It can be ten degrees warmer on the sunny side than in the shade, so Marty has the sides switched. Moon threw for over 400 yards that day, and beat KC bad. They haven't switched sidelines since. I think its more of an equalizer, and makes both teams equally cold on a day like today.

Chiefs Rool
12-05-2010, 05:16 PM
nice post, spot on! But ya, those refs are doing their best to screw us. No holding on DMC's big run and that was not PI on Bowe. Ridiculous.

Bearcat
12-05-2010, 05:19 PM
I'll tell you a story about the sidelines. One year under Marty, we were playing the Houston Oilers with Warren Moon. They switched sidelines before the game, because the visiting sideline (on the north side of the field) is in the sun most of the game. It can be ten degrees warmer on the sunny side than in the shade, so Marty has the sides switched. Moon threw for over 400 yards that day, and beat KC bad. They haven't switched sidelines since. I think its more of an equalizer, and makes both teams equally cold on a day like today.

Today, it was downright balmy for the first 3.5 quarters. :)

boogblaster
12-05-2010, 05:20 PM
Good read ... Yea da refs sucked .......

Deberg_1990
12-05-2010, 05:36 PM
That OPI call on Bowe was total BS. That play was right in front of me. Cassel under threw the pass -as is normal for Cassel- and Bowe just pulled up, jumped for the ball and came down with it. He did not push off. The side judge (#21) that made that call was laughing about it to the Chiefs bench right afterwards. The fans were giving it to him with both barrels. I believe he was also the ref that threw the flag on McCluster's 50-plus yard run. Guy was a total tool and really did his best to keep the Donks in the game. I hope they cavity search him without vaseline at the airport tonight.



I really wish that PI calls were reviewable.

HonestChieffan
12-05-2010, 05:37 PM
Not a fun game to watch, it was cold at times but a great outcome. Donk hate was good but I may have more ref hate from this crew. They sucked.

jd1020
12-05-2010, 05:38 PM
So you're saying it's okay to never get an interception for the whole year?

I don't believe I ever said that. Ya its nice to get an interception and you count on your defense to make plays. But there is a reason why they are gaurding receivers and not receiving.

L.A. Chieffan
12-05-2010, 05:41 PM
the tyson jackson thing makes me more pissed every day.

el borracho
12-05-2010, 05:45 PM
.

Deberg_1990
12-05-2010, 05:45 PM
the tyson jackson thing makes me more pissed every day.

Yea, it sucks...players picked after Jackson we could have used:

Orakpo
Crabtree
Raji
Cushing
Harvin
Matthews
Hakeem Nicks
Kenny Britt

:facepalm:

DaneMcCloud
12-05-2010, 05:46 PM
the tyson jackson thing makes me more pissed every day.

Dude, dude, dude.

He's going to be Richard Seymour Deux. I've been reassured repeatedly by members of Chiefsplanet.

It's all good.

Reerun_KC
12-05-2010, 05:52 PM
Dude, dude, dude.

He's going to be Richard Seymour Deux. I've been reassured repeatedly by members of Chiefsplanet.

It's all good.

Actually if you rail on him, there is a good chance in a year or so he will become a productive player...

Kind of like you and your hate of Hali....

Bacon Cheeseburger
12-05-2010, 05:53 PM
My one thing from today's game:

What kind of special needs child runs the scoreboard for the other games in the NFL? I never once saw a score for the MIN/BUF game, but yet the score from the Thursday night game was up there constantly.

milkman
12-05-2010, 05:55 PM
The Cassel throw to Bowe was perfect.

To expand on this, that throw was placed exactly where it needs to be on that route.

It was not underthrown.

The play was executed to near perfection, if only the ref didn't see things that weren't there.

EyePod
12-05-2010, 05:59 PM
No one gave us a chance against SD the 1st time around.

EyePod
12-05-2010, 06:00 PM
To expand on this, that throw was placed exactly where it needs to be on that route.

It was not underthrown.

The play was executed to near perfection, if only the ref didn't see things that weren't there.

Bowe did place his hand on Champ, but he didn't push off. There's a difference. Contact is allowed as long as it doesn't affect the play (which it didn't).

And that holding call on Copper was complete BS.

Three7s
12-05-2010, 06:00 PM
I don't believe I ever said that. Ya its nice to get an interception and you count on your defense to make plays. But there is a reason why they are gaurding receivers and not receiving.
I know, I'm just giving you shit. It was still irritating to see these passes hit our defenders right in the paws and not grab one.

BigMeatballDave
12-05-2010, 06:01 PM
Dude, dude, dude.

He's going to be Richard Seymour Deux. I've been reassured repeatedly by members of Chiefsplanet.

It's all good.Here's one player everyone can agree on.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-05-2010, 06:04 PM
B-Rich was terrible today, both mentally and physically, but as bad as he was, on the one play they took him out, O'Callaghan blocked the wrong guy, doubling down on Lilja's man, which left one of the Denver backers with a clean shot on Cassel, which is what caused the 4th down play, stupid as the call was, to break down so quickly.

L.A. Chieffan
12-05-2010, 06:06 PM
Here's one player everyone can agree on.

a lot of people LOVED that pick when it happened

TRR
12-05-2010, 06:32 PM
I thought offensive play-calling was horrible for most of the game. Weis had his moments, and KC ultimately controlled the clock, but there were a ton of head scratching calls.

Weis kept forcing to get McCluster the ball. Lining him up at RB, and running a guard-tackle play was asking for a fumble. They seemed to always be going with the cold back as when Jones was hot, he was froze out on the sideline. When Charles was hot, he was froze out on the sideline. I also hate when they didn't even try to get Bowe involved with a WR screen, end around, etc. Bailey did a great job defending, however Weis didn't give Bowe a chance to make a play. Two WR screens to Copper??

A win is a win.
Posted via Mobile Device

Reerun_KC
12-05-2010, 06:35 PM
Denver just seems to have our number right now..

teedubya
12-05-2010, 06:37 PM
Ahh, so they were jet fighters.... I heard them ROAR by my house... assumed they were a stealth. my bad.

DaneMcCloud
12-05-2010, 06:38 PM
a lot of people LOVED that pick when it happened

There are members here who still think he shouldn't be compared to Sims, because, you know, #3 overall picks need a minimum of three years before proving they can play.

Meanwhile, Ziggy Hood sacks Flacco.

milkman
12-05-2010, 06:40 PM
Denver just seems to have our number right now..

The Donkeys are just a bad matchup for us right now.

On offense, we still only have one legitimate receiver, and Champ Bailey is still a shutdown corner, so passing teh ball can be problematic.

Because of that, the Donkeys cab sell out to stop the run, and while they didn't stop it completely, the Chiefs didn't get many big plays.

On defense, we have to put too many of our resources into pass defense, so that opens things up for Moreno.

As I said, just a bad match up.

Reerun_KC
12-05-2010, 06:43 PM
The Donkeys are just a bad matchup for us right now.

On offense, we still only have one legitimate receiver, and Champ Bailey is still a shutdown corner, so passing teh ball can be problematic.

Because of that, the Donkeys cab sell out to stop the run, and while they didn't stop it completely, the Chiefs didn't get many big plays.

On defense, we have to put too many of our resources into pass defense, so that opens things up for Moreno.

As I said, just a bad match up.

Pretty much agree... Its a very frustrating game to say the least.


Another big thing that really irks me about us, We can not over come penalties on offense.. We get any drive going and one small penalty will derail it. Driving me nuts.....

We are not good enough to over come the smallest 5 yard penalty on offense.

milkman
12-05-2010, 06:47 PM
Pretty much agree... Its a very frustrating game to say the least.


Another big thing that really irks me about us, We can not over come penalties on offense.. We get any drive going and one small penalty will derail it. Driving me nuts.....

We are not good enough to over come the smallest 5 yard penalty on offense.

That'll get better as the team grows.

They were actually pretty efficient overall on third downs today, but they kept shooting themselves in the foot as we got deep into Donkey territory.

DaneMcCloud
12-05-2010, 06:47 PM
The Donkeys are just a bad matchup for us right now.

On offense, we still only have one legitimate receiver, and Champ Bailey is still a shutdown corner, so passing teh ball can be problematic.

Because of that, the Donkeys cab sell out to stop the run, and while they didn't stop it completely, the Chiefs didn't get many big plays.

On defense, we have to put too many of our resources into pass defense, so that opens things up for Moreno.

As I said, just a bad match up.

Yes, the Chiefs don't match up well offensively with the Broncos. The defense played extremely well and having Studebaker on the field more than Vrabel definitely paid benefits.

But I also believe something else was at play today because the offense was for the most part, very ineffective. Either Haley and Weis worked the offense too hard this week, which led them to be mentally fatigued (i.e., penalties, lack of focus, etc.) or they didn't work them enough.

All I know is that even though there are matchup issues, this offense looked nothing like the offense we saw in the month of November.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-05-2010, 06:49 PM
The Chiefs are going to have matchup problems against any team with a really good CB, as we only have one legitimate WR threat, and for as good as Bowe has been, he can be neutralized.

DaneMcCloud
12-05-2010, 06:51 PM
The Chiefs are going to have matchup problems against any team with a really good CB, as we only have one legitimate WR threat, and for as good as Bowe has been, he can be neutralized.

Which is another reason why Haley should take the points.

milkman
12-05-2010, 06:54 PM
Which is another reason why Haley should take the points.

I rarely disagree with the aggressive approah, but in this case, kicking that FG is the right decision.

Going for it there, at that point in the game, in that situation, is simply a bad decision.

Count Zarth
12-05-2010, 07:02 PM
The Chiefs are going to have matchup problems against any team with a really good CB, as we only have one legitimate WR threat, and for as good as Bowe has been, he can be neutralized.

Yep. This is why playing bottom feeders is deceiving.

There's no way this is a legit top 5 offense.

HemiEd
12-05-2010, 07:04 PM
Good job gblowfish.

I told the Mrs. during the game, that Carr was having his best game as a pro and Cassel was back to his old self most of the game.

The officiating just plain sucked, and to be honest, I felt like we got a break on Flowers not getting a PI call on him, down at the goal line.

PRIEST
12-05-2010, 07:05 PM
[quote=tyler360;7229573]I think Carr is a very underrated player for us.



This

milkman
12-05-2010, 07:06 PM
Yep. This is why playing bottom feeders is deceiving.

There's no way this is a legit top 5 offense.

As much as you dislike McCluster, losing him for those 4 games really hurt this team coming into this stretch of games to some extent.

While Cassel and Bowe were developing a chemistry they were lacking against the "bottom feeders", Cassel and McCluster could have started to find the same page, as well.

The Chiefs could have also have refined McCluster's role.

Count Zarth
12-05-2010, 07:06 PM
Weis kept forcing to get McCluster the ball. Lining him up at RB, and running a guard-tackle play was asking for a fumble.

This is why I hate McCluster. He doesn't go out in the pattern and get the ball as a natural progression of the play. We have to design little cutesy plays to get him the ball, making him the only option on the play.

I'd be surprised if he ever has a 100-yard receiving game. He's rapidly approaching Kris Wilson 2.0 status.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-05-2010, 07:06 PM
I don't want to hear anyone bitch about Brandon Carr. 11 targets to the leading WR in the NFL and he had 2 fucking catches.

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 07:07 PM
Yep. This is why playing bottom feeders is deceiving.

There's no way this is a legit top 5 offense.

As apposed to who? The whole league is mired in mediocrity right now.

Who is a dominant team?

Count Zarth
12-05-2010, 07:09 PM
As apposed to who? The whole league is mired in mediocrity right now.

Who is a dominant team?

What I'm saying is if we had to play a real defense, like Baltimore or Pittsburgh, we'd probably get completely exposed on offense.

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 07:12 PM
What I'm saying is if we had to play a real defense, like Baltimore or Pittsburgh, we'd probably get completely exposed on offense.

I guess we find out next week. Isn't SD at the top of the league in defense?

I think the good defenses are as much a product of weak offense as anything else.

What offensive juggernaut exist in the NFL right now? Let alone 3 or 4 of them. No record on the line this year. No 9-0 teams this year, no record offenses or close to it.

donkhater
12-05-2010, 07:14 PM
What I'm saying is if we had to play a real defense, like Baltimore or Pittsburgh, we'd probably get completely exposed on offense.

Baltimore has been scored on this year. Their D doesn't match their rep.

Coogs
12-05-2010, 07:18 PM
This is why I hate McCluster.

I thought you hated him because of his T-Shirt sales. :shrug:

Chiefspants
12-05-2010, 07:22 PM
I don't want to hear anyone bitch about Brandon Carr. 11 targets to the leading WR in the NFL and he had 2 ****ing catches.

And, It's been said before, but those two catches could have been on Flowers.

DenverDanChiefsFan
12-05-2010, 07:28 PM
Agree with most of this, except there weren't 70K there today. I saw that attendance was 62K.

Too many empty seats for a division rivalry game with playoff implications.

Count Zarth
12-05-2010, 07:34 PM
Baltimore has been scored on this year. Their D doesn't match their rep.

They are 5th in pts and 9th in yards.

They would rip our offense apart.

the Talking Can
12-05-2010, 07:36 PM
As much as you dislike McCluster, losing him for those 4 games really hurt this team coming into this stretch of games to some extent.

While Cassel and Bowe were developing a chemistry they were lacking against the "bottom feeders", Cassel and McCluster could have started to find the same page, as well.

The Chiefs could have also have refined McCluster's role.

i'm still wondering what his role is?

there is nothing he can do as a rb that Charles can't do better, with the exception of i guess running a reverse once a game...and please god never run him between the tackles again...he'll die

he needs to be a wr...and i haven't seen him running any welker-type stuff there either...

it isn't obvious to me what he is...

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-05-2010, 07:42 PM
i'm still wondering what his role is?

there is nothing he can do as a rb that Charles can't do better, with the exception of i guess running a reverse once a game...and please god never run him between the tackles again...he'll die

he needs to be a wr...and i haven't seen him running any welker-type stuff there either...

it isn't obvious to me what he is...

I've said since he was drafted that he's far more Dave Meggett than he is Wes Welker. He operates well when running in space, like a returner does, but I haven't really seen him flash much else.

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 07:44 PM
They are 5th in pts and 9th in yards.

They would rip our offense apart.

KC is giving up less than 13pts a game at home now. They are running for about 200 a game at home.

We need a home game if we make the PO's.

milkman
12-05-2010, 07:46 PM
i'm still wondering what his role is?

there is nothing he can do as a rb that Charles can't do better, with the exception of i guess running a reverse once a game...and please god never run him between the tackles again...he'll die

he needs to be a wr...and i haven't seen him running any welker-type stuff there either...

it isn't obvious to me what he is...

I'm wondering still as well.

But it seems to the Chiefs are also.

ChiefsCountry
12-05-2010, 07:48 PM
it isn't obvious to me what he is...

3rd down running back out of the back field or how the Pats used to use Kevin Faulk.

the Talking Can
12-05-2010, 07:50 PM
I've said since he was drafted that he's far more Dave Meggett than he is Wes Welker. He operates well when running in space, like a returner does, but I haven't really seen him flash much else.

possibly


but we need welker....and a burner #2


i mean, he'll produce for us..dude can hit some gadget plays, but i'm still not sold on his long term value....which is a bit of a hijack anyways...


we've got plenty of holes to fill in the offseason....

the Talking Can
12-05-2010, 07:51 PM
3rd down running back out of the back field or how the Pats used to use Kevin Faulk.

that's Charles....we sure as hell better never pull Charles on 3rd down for Mccluster...

stevieray
12-05-2010, 07:52 PM
real defense

this is so silly.

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 07:53 PM
Isn't it a bit early to determine DMC's ceiling? He has shown flashes of his potential.

His run today was plain nuts and his 3rd down catch was key. He is a fucking rookie. Give it time.

milkman
12-05-2010, 07:55 PM
Isn't it a bit early to determine DMC's ceiling? He has shown flashes of his potential.

His run today was plain nuts and his 3rd down catch was key. He is a ****ing rookie. Give it time.

Who's determining his ceiling?

How can his ceiling be determined even, when we don't even know what room to put the ceiling over?

Count Zarth
12-05-2010, 07:58 PM
this is so silly.

Is it?

The Chiefs have racked up big numbers against Houston, Seattle, Arizona, Denver, Buffalo and Jacksonville.

All of those teams rank 25th or worse in total defense.

We've had exactly one good game against a quality defense this year - San Francisco.

Doesn't inspire much confidence, especially when teams like the Raiders, Broncos and Colts have dominated our offense at times.

The lack of a quality receiving corps will be our death knell in the playoffs. For the same reason our #1 pick next year will probably be a receiver.

This message brought to you by Dexter McCluster.

the Talking Can
12-05-2010, 08:01 PM
Isn't it a bit early to determine DMC's ceiling? He has shown flashes of his potential.

His run today was plain nuts and his 3rd down catch was key. He is a ****ing rookie. Give it time.

we're having a discussion.....


do we have to apologize for that now on the planet?


i'll start another 'sorry for talking about you mccluster' thread if you'd like?

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 08:01 PM
Who's determining his ceiling?

How can his ceiling be determined even, when we don't even know what room to put the ceiling over?


Saying he has been disappointing is only a product of misguided expectations.

If not for a BS call today he had a 58 yard game changing run.

He is making impact play in the game when he plays. Not every game but hell he is a rookie.

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 08:02 PM
we're having a discussion.....


do we have to apologize for that now on the planet?


i'll start another 'sorry for talking about you mccluster' thread if you'd like?

Ooops sorry thought I was discussing as well.

milkman
12-05-2010, 08:04 PM
Saying he has been disappointing is only a product of misguided expectations.

If not for a BS call today he had a 58 yard game changing run.

He is making impact play in the game when he plays. Not every game but hell he is a rookie.

The only guy saying he's disappointing is Claythan.

The rest of us are just trying to figure out what his role is.

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 08:06 PM
The only guy saying he's disappointing is Claythan.

The rest of us are just trying to figure out what his role is.

Not just GC but I agree that his role is not yet defined.

I will tell you this when JC looked hurt I felt better we had DMC available.

JC goes down we have no dynamic play makers running the ball and I know calling DMC a runner is a stretch compared to JC.

the Talking Can
12-05-2010, 08:06 PM
Ooops sorry thought I was discussing as well.

no, you were informing us that 'he's a rookie give it ****ing time'...how is that comment generative?

it's a non-sequitor in relation to the actual discussion we were having about what he type of player he is...

but you didn't threaten me like fake mma guy likes to do....so it could be worse

Count Zarth
12-05-2010, 08:09 PM
That's just it, though.

He IS disappointing.

He's averaging 24 yards of offense per game.

For a "receiver" who was drafted in the 2nd round, he's had a shitty rookie season. We need a quantum leap in year two.

zonachief
12-05-2010, 08:10 PM
Is it?

The Chiefs have racked up big numbers against Houston, Seattle, Arizona, Denver, Buffalo and Jacksonville.

All of those teams rank 25th or worse in total defense.

We've had exactly one good game against a quality defense this year - San Francisco.

Doesn't inspire much confidence, especially when teams like the Raiders, Broncos and Colts have dominated our offense at times.

The lack of a quality receiving corps will be our death knell in the playoffs. For the same reason our #1 pick next year will probably be a receiver.

This message brought to you by Dexter McCluster.

Gif horse.
If we do get a WR in round one (which im not opposed to at all) do you think McCluster would fit it nicley as a slot guy? Just asking not trying to start a holy war. I think Bowe, Draft pic, DMC is a nice core? thoughts?

T-post Tom
12-05-2010, 08:11 PM
Nice post.

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 08:12 PM
That's just it, though.

He IS disappointing.

He's averaging 24 yards of offense per game.

For a "receiver" who was drafted in the 2nd round, he's had a shitty rookie season. We need a quantum leap in year two.

You know damn well he isn't a pure receiver and was not drafted to be one.

He would have had 100 yards today of not for the BS holding call.

Get with reality and stop trying to make him Bowe.

He is a receiver,RB, and returner. All critical yards.

Count Zarth
12-05-2010, 08:14 PM
You know damn well he isn't a pure receiver and was not drafted to be one.


We didn't need a running back.

We needed a kick returner, but you don't spend a 2nd round pick on one.

If he can't get open and make plays as a wide receiver, the pick was terrible.

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 08:18 PM
We didn't need a running back.

We needed a kick returner, but you don't spend a 2nd round pick on one.

If he can't get open and make plays as a wide receiver, the pick was terrible.

BS.If he makes impact plays at any position it was worth it. You are too confined to what you want.

Had that run stood which it should have, that was a game changer.

Game changing plays are what they are whatever way they come.

He arguably won the SD game for us. That could determine the season. Wake up.

Frankie
12-05-2010, 08:20 PM
That OPI call on Bowe was total BS. That play was right in front of me. Cassel under threw the pass -as is normal for Cassel- and Bowe just pulled up, jumped for the ball and came down with it. He did not push off.

The push call on WAS pure dog piss. Watching the replay you see Bowe softly touch Bailey's chest. No push at all. But the cheating Donk did an equivalence of a Soccer dive. There was almost a split second pause before Champ decided to act pushed. The official who threw the flag was either a Denver fan, or was promised a post-game BJ by McDipshit. If not those, then he was stupid and bought Bailey's act.


I believe he was also the ref that threw the flag on McCluster's 50-plus yard run. Guy was a total tool and really did his best to keep the Donks in the game. I hope they cavity search him without vaseline at the airport tonight.
On the TV replay I never saw the Copper flag. Even when the announcers tried to explain it away. "Copper extended his arm just a bit" they said. I watched the game on a regular TV and it seemed what they were marking on the screen fell just outside of the screen for me.

Sounds like you don't agree with that call either. Can you describe it as to whether Copper committed such an unforgivable fraction worthy of negating a great, potentially back-breaking, return?

Count Zarth
12-05-2010, 08:24 PM
BS.If he makes impact plays at any position it was worth it. You are too confined to what you want.

Had that run stood which it should have, that was a game changer.

Game changing plays are what they are whatever way they come.

He arguably won the SD game for us. That could determine the season. Wake up.

You have extremely low standards for a second-round draft pick. And McCluster was a high 2nd.

The guy isn't an impact player as of yet and it's not even close. He cost us points today. Our offense didn't suffer in Seattle or against Arizona without him, either.

Frankie
12-05-2010, 08:24 PM
The horseshit on McCluster's big play was right in front of us, and along with the Bowe OPI and a couple of PI non-calls (I think thrown to Moeaki both times), the officiating was awful... and I'm not one to complain about refs.

Well sounds like you ARE complaining. :)

But as mentioned in my previous post I'm very curious about that call and what the infraction actual was.

Frankie
12-05-2010, 08:27 PM
Yea, it sucks...players picked after Jackson we could have used:

Orakpo
Crabtree
Raji
Cushing
Harvin
Matthews
Hakeem Nicks
Kenny Britt

:facepalm:
Matthews too?!!! Oh, shit you are right. I soooo want that dude for the Chiefs! Can you imagine him and his talent and attitude in our D line up?

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 08:29 PM
You have extremely low standards for a second-round draft pick. And McCluster was a high 2nd.

The guy isn't an impact player as of yet and it's not even close. He cost us points today. Our offense didn't suffer in Seattle or against Arizona without him, either.

Great. One day you will be making a DMC video and I will bring this back up.

BTW the fumble hurt, but you can continue to ignore the run that was negated on a BS call.

The fact he has 2 TD's in 7 games played as a rookie is not shameful but only you would find it that way.

BTW Moeaki who you didn't like as well just broke TG's rookie TE receiving record with 4 games left.

Oh yea and Arenas who you didn't like is playing killer nickel back.

Your opinion on players means what?

TheGuardian
12-05-2010, 08:29 PM
You have extremely low standards for a second-round draft pick. And McCluster was a high 2nd.

The guy isn't an impact player as of yet and it's not even close. He cost us points today. Our offense didn't suffer in Seattle or against Arizona without him, either.

Dude you are really turning into a complete douche lately.

McCluster had the biggest play of the day called back on a ticky tack BS call. He's in his first season. stfu about him already. We drafted him in the second round. It's over. Shut the FUCK UP!

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-05-2010, 08:29 PM
How can you forget Maclin, who is the best WR of the draft class and exactly what the Chiefs need on offense?

TRR
12-05-2010, 08:31 PM
This McCluster discussion wouldn't be happening if the coaching staff would just define his role. McCluster should now be well entrenched as KC's kick/punt returner and slot WR. Instead, they put him in the backfield and run him up the gut, and put him in as a kick/punt returner when th idea hits them.

Let him develop as a slot WR, and focus on return duties. Instead, we have a player that has no clue what role he plays on the team.
Posted via Mobile Device

2bikemike
12-05-2010, 08:32 PM
The push call on WAS pure dog piss. Watching the replay you see Bowe softly touch Bailey's chest. No push at all. But the cheating Donk did an equivalence of a Soccer dive. There was almost a split second pause before Champ decided to act pushed. The official who threw the flag was either a Denver fan, or was promised a post-game BJ by McDipshit. If not those, then he was stupid and bought Bailey's act.




The Offensive PI on Bowe was nothing compared to what Andre Johnson did earlier this year.

However I saw a lot of non calls today on the line from both teams.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-05-2010, 08:32 PM
If we end up picking around 24, which is entirely possible, we could (realistically) pick WR, NT, OLB, or even C and fill a massive hole on the team.

Frankie
12-05-2010, 08:34 PM
Either Haley and Weis worked the offense too hard this week, which led them to be mentally fatigued (i.e., penalties, lack of focus, etc.) or they didn't work them enough.

I really think they were thinking ahead to San Diego. They were just, almost collectively, out of focus.

Turns out SD may have also been thinking ahead to next week's game.

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 08:34 PM
If we end up picking around 24, which is entirely possible, we could (realistically) pick WR, NT, OLB, or even C and fill a massive hole on the team.

Who would you take at that pick?

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-05-2010, 08:34 PM
This McCluster discussion wouldn't be happening if the coaching staff would just define his role. McCluster should now be well entrenched as KC's kick/punt returner and slot WR. Instead, they put him in the backfield and run him up the gut, and put him in as a kick/punt returner when th idea hits them.

Let him develop as a slot WR, and focus on return duties. Instead, we have a player that has no clue what role he plays on the team.
Posted via Mobile Device

Did you ever think that maybe he plays the role he does b/c he's a jack of all trades and a master of none?

As much as you may want him to be a slot WR, he's small for the position, and isn't exactly a polished route runner, despite preseason hype. He hasn't shown the ability to run between the tackles, but he has displayed ability in the return game.

I'm just glad that he was able to constantly draw double and triple teams today, which freed everything up for the rest of our offense.

2bikemike
12-05-2010, 08:34 PM
Speaking of Penalties on the punt at the end of the game. Since the punt returner never touched the ball was the Chiefs player legal in basically trying to drag the punt returner down? I thought for sure we were going to be penalized.

ChiefsCountry
12-05-2010, 08:37 PM
Who would you take at that pick?

Ayers or whatever WR fell.

chiefzilla1501
12-05-2010, 08:37 PM
i'm still wondering what his role is?

there is nothing he can do as a rb that Charles can't do better, with the exception of i guess running a reverse once a game...and please god never run him between the tackles again...he'll die

he needs to be a wr...and i haven't seen him running any welker-type stuff there either...

it isn't obvious to me what he is...

Charles is not a good receiver. He is an effective option in the screen game, but we've seen several times this season that he drops easy passes and doesn't understand how to run routes or adjust to the ball. McCluster is a legit receiver who still needs some work to develop. He runs quite a few routes, though he has to work a little bit on getting open. Today, he ran a terrific route on the 19-yard 3rd down completion.

What McCluster allows you to do is run 2-back sets, sometimes 3-back sets without damning yourself. Jones and Charles can't share a backfield because it would severely limit our passing game having two players on routes who have no idea how to run routes. I hate when people use the word "end-around" because it often gets confused for a slow developing trick play. Usually McCluster is involved in a pre-snap motion. McCluster typically eeks out a few yards on those plays, but you also have to pay attention to what happens when he doesn't get the ball. When McCluster is in motion, you'll notice that the defense doesn't pay as much attention to stacking against Charles.Desean Jackson is often used in this way.

He's a much different player than Charles and his role is clear. He just has to get healthier and continue to learn. There's no reason to think that if he can stay healthy that he can't be an important weapon for the offense.

CoMoChief
12-05-2010, 08:37 PM
Our D-Backs cant catch because they are on defense and not on offensive lined up wide right.

shut the fuck up tool. we all know that DB's can't fucking catch as good as WR's

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-05-2010, 08:41 PM
Who would you take at that pick?

That largely depends on who is available.

Von Miller or Akeem Ayers will probably be available around that spot and would fill a PR void. Miller is a better fit for us, but Ayers is a team captain. The fact that I just mentioned that makes me sick.

Julio Jones and Johnny Baldwin both had downish years, but either would be a nice fit for this O, even if Jones isn't a guy who will take the top off of a defense. If he leaves early, Blackmon from Okie SU is skyrocketing this year.

Wisniewski is the #1 center prospect this year. There aren't a lot of top notch NTs available, but there are 5 techs galore. Watch us try and replace Tyson Jackson with Allen Bailey, Cameron Jordan, or Adrian Clayborn.

If all of those guys were available, I'd probably take Miller or Baldwin.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-05-2010, 08:43 PM
Jamaal Charles is a perfectly adequate receiver, and every time I saw McCluster lined out today, he was single covered.

Count Zarth
12-05-2010, 08:43 PM
Great. One day you will be making a DMC video and I will bring this back up.

BTW the fumble hurt, but you can continue to ignore the run that was negated on a BS call.

The fact he has 2 TD's in 7 games played as a rookie is not shameful but only you would find it that way.

BTW Moeaki who you didn't like as well just broke TG's rookie TE receiving record with 4 games left.

Oh yea and Arenas who you didn't like is playing killer nickel back.

Your opinion on players means what?

The only reason I didn't like the Moeaki pick is because of his injury history. So far he's stayed healthy.

I still don't like the Arenas pick. Nickel backs aren't worth 2nd round picks.

2 TD in 7 games is fucking amazing though. :rolleyes:

TRR
12-05-2010, 08:44 PM
Did you ever think that maybe he plays the role he does b/c he's a jack of all trades and a master of none?

As much as you may want him to be a slot WR, he's small for the position, and isn't exactly a polished route runner, despite preseason hype. He hasn't shown the ability to run between the tackles, but he has displayed ability in the return game.

I'm just glad that he was able to constantly draw double and triple teams today, which freed everything up for the rest of our offense.

What????????????????

How do you know he's a master of none? He hasn't been given the chance to become a slot WR because the coaching staff has him practicing all over the place. Your reply makes ZERO sense. The Chiefs offense is in great need of playmakers, and McCluster is paying the price, triple dipping as a slot WR, a backup RB, and a returner. Give him a role and let him develop.

Your last sentence makes ZERO sense. Who did McCluster free up room for?? Dwayne Bowe with zero catches? Moeaki with his HUGE game? No. Tucker and his...wait no. Give me a break.

We will never know if McCluster can master the slot unless we focus him on that in specific. What I do know is other than gadget running plays, he is NOT an NFL running back.
Posted via Mobile Device

DeezNutz
12-05-2010, 08:46 PM
Umm...

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 08:48 PM
The only reason I didn't like the Moeaki pick is because of his injury history. So far he's stayed healthy.

I still don't like the Arenas pick. Nickel backs aren't worth 2nd round picks.

2 TD in 7 games is ****ing amazing though. :rolleyes:

Wrong on nickel backs in the 2nd round and amazing is what you expect from a 2nd round rookie?

No surprise you are disappointed.

chiefzilla1501
12-05-2010, 08:48 PM
You have extremely low standards for a second-round draft pick. And McCluster was a high 2nd.

The guy isn't an impact player as of yet and it's not even close. He cost us points today. Our offense didn't suffer in Seattle or against Arizona without him, either.

Demaryius Thomas and Golden Tate are averaging about the same production. Thomas was a much higher pick in an aerial offense. Tate was a guy people would have gladly picked at 2a. You have extremely RIDICULOUS standards for how good a receiver is supposed to be in his rookie season. Receiver is an extremely difficult position to transition to in the NFL, let alone when you played most of your college snaps as a Running Back.

And kind of ridiculous to say he costed us points without mentioning that his key 3rd down reception helped set up our only Touchdown and given that he put the Chiefs in easy scoring range (save for a BS penalty). The fumble was inexcusable, but to ignore his contributions is ridiculous.

Cue the "but he only had 30 yards" comment (even though he earned a 57-yard reception that was annulled for reasons that didn't affect the play)

stevieray
12-05-2010, 08:48 PM
...his role is he is a threat when he touches the ball, as evidenced by the run that got called back.

hasn't played but a half season..they'll work him into the mix..

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 08:49 PM
JC tore it up as a rookie. Oooops.

chiefzilla1501
12-05-2010, 08:53 PM
Jamaal Charles is a perfectly adequate receiver, and every time I saw McCluster lined out today, he was single covered.

1) he is absolutely adequate at best. He runs below average routes, had a few big drops this year, and has had several plays this season where he awkwardly adjusted to the ball. He's not a natural receiver. A good screen guy and good enough as a receiver for the running back, but not a guy you want to line up in the slot
2) Even if he could line him up in the slot, why would you want to? That would leave the Chiefs with an empty backfield which would signal the pass pretty clearly. Like I said, McCluster allows you the flexibility to show a 3 WR set OR a 2-RB set without showing your hand pre-snap
3) McCluster has to get a lot better as a receiver. He, like the majority of NFL receivers, will need some time to adjust to the NFL and no guarantee he will. But none of us have seen anything whatsoever that leads us to believe he can't do it effectively eventually.

DeezNutz
12-05-2010, 08:55 PM
A legit deep threat would be a big help to DMC, working underneath in the slot. If we're picking 20 something, this should be a target for us, pardon the pun, and the depth in the WR class should be a boon for the Chiefs.

dirk digler
12-05-2010, 08:56 PM
...his role is he is a threat when he touches the ball, as evidenced by the run that got called back.

hasn't played but a half season..they'll work him into the mix..

I agree. Anytime he touches the ball he can go to the house

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-05-2010, 08:57 PM
Are we really so desperate to justify players that we are counting their yardage that would have occurred if not for penalty?

And TRR, adjust your sarcasm meter for that last sentence. As far as the rest of your reply...:facepalm:

chiefzilla1501
12-05-2010, 08:58 PM
A legit deep threat would be a big help to DMC, working underneath in the slot. If we're picking 20 something, this should be a target for us, pardon the pun, and the depth in the WR class should be a boon for the Chiefs.

Agree wholeheartedly. Little has been mentioned that Welker, while still playing well this season, benefited quite a bit from having Moss pull the safeties back and leave so much underneath space. You don't need a pro bowler. You just need someone whose at least a threat to go deep.

But he still has to work quite a bit on improving his receiver instincts and fundamentals. No doubt about that.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-05-2010, 08:59 PM
1) he is absolutely adequate at best. He runs below average routes, had a few big drops this year, and has had several plays this season where he awkwardly adjusted to the ball. He's not a natural receiver. A good screen guy and good enough as a receiver for the running back, but not a guy you want to line up in the slot
2) Even if he could line him up in the slot, why would you want to? That would leave the Chiefs with an empty backfield which would signal the pass pretty clearly. Like I said, McCluster allows you the flexibility to show a 3 WR set OR a 2-RB set without showing your hand pre-snap
3) McCluster has to get a lot better as a receiver. He, like the majority of NFL receivers, will need some time to adjust to the NFL and no guarantee he will. But none of us have seen anything whatsoever that leads us to believe he can't do it effectively eventually.

When in the fuck did I say I'd want to line him up in the slot?

WV
12-05-2010, 09:00 PM
Nice summary gblow.....

All the other talk about McCluster is a double edged sword to me, while I get excited everytime he touches the ball I also hold my breath he doesn't get torn in two. While I don't hate the pick, I do think he's more of a luxury pick as opposed to one we should have made.

Marcellus
12-05-2010, 09:00 PM
Are we really so desperate to justify players that we are counting their yardage that would have occurred if not for penalty?

And TRR, adjust your sarcasm meter for that last sentence. As far as the rest of your reply...:facepalm:

Are we so negative we won't watch what actually happens and see the talent?

Coogs
12-05-2010, 09:00 PM
This McCluster discussion wouldn't be happening if the coaching staff would just define his role. McCluster should now be well entrenched as KC's kick/punt returner and slot WR. Instead, they put him in the backfield and run him up the gut, and put him in as a kick/punt returner when th idea hits them.

Let him develop as a slot WR, and focus on return duties. Instead, we have a player that has no clue what role he plays on the team.
Posted via Mobile Device

My guess is Chambers being a non-factor on this team changed a lot of things with regards to McCluster.

the Talking Can
12-05-2010, 09:01 PM
Charles is not a good receiver. He is an effective option in the screen game, but we've seen several times this season that he drops easy passes and doesn't understand how to run routes or adjust to the ball. McCluster is a legit receiver who still needs some work to develop. He runs quite a few routes, though he has to work a little bit on getting open. Today, he ran a terrific route on the 19-yard 3rd down completion.

What McCluster allows you to do is run 2-back sets, sometimes 3-back sets without damning yourself. Jones and Charles can't share a backfield because it would severely limit our passing game having two players on routes who have no idea how to run routes. I hate when people use the word "end-around" because it often gets confused for a slow developing trick play. Usually McCluster is involved in a pre-snap motion. McCluster typically eeks out a few yards on those plays, but you also have to pay attention to what happens when he doesn't get the ball. When McCluster is in motion, you'll notice that the defense doesn't pay as much attention to stacking against Charles.Desean Jackson is often used in this way.

He's a much different player than Charles and his role is clear. He just has to get healthier and continue to learn. There's no reason to think that if he can stay healthy that he can't be an important weapon for the offense.

have to be honest, i don't see all these effects he supposedly has...and I'm particularly curious about the comparison to Jackson...there is no way defenses are responding to a slot WR who runs short and occasional mid-range routes as they do to Jackson who is probably the biggest home run threat in the league....

and how often do we run 2 back and 3 back sets?....maybe i just need to pay closer attention...i don't think today is a good piece of evidence for him, so i'm not holding it against him...

it seems to me that Charles talents aren't significantly improved by lining him up next to mccluster....we need to stretch the defense vertically more than we need to stretch it horizontally...we need to take advantage of the defense's crowding of the los by getting behind them...for McCluster to do that he needs to be a wr, imo...he isn't good enough to be taking more snaps from charles

i'll be curious to see what he becomes next year....i think he needs to settle into a position, the jack of all trades things is valuable to a team without a great running game (faulk in new england) but not so much to a team with the best running back and best running game in the league..

chiefzilla1501
12-05-2010, 09:02 PM
Are we really so desperate to justify players that we are counting their yardage that would have occurred if not for penalty?

And TRR, adjust your sarcasm meter for that last sentence. As far as the rest of your reply...:facepalm:

No, this is in response to GC's insistence that McCluster only had 30 yards today and was therefore ineffective and is therefore a bust. In another thread, he went as far as to imply that good players make plays that count, as if this play getting called back was somehow his fault.

If we're evaluating his performance today, it's ridiculous for anyone to just pretend the play never happened, given that it was a BS call and given that the hold in question didn't at all affect the run.

the Talking Can
12-05-2010, 09:04 PM
This McCluster discussion wouldn't be happening if the coaching staff would just define his role. McCluster should now be well entrenched as KC's kick/punt returner and slot WR. Instead, they put him in the backfield and run him up the gut, and put him in as a kick/punt returner when th idea hits them.


Posted via Mobile Device

this is my take as well....whatever else he does in the offense, it should stem from him being a damn good slot wr....

chiefzilla1501
12-05-2010, 09:04 PM
When in the **** did I say I'd want to line him up in the slot?

The original comment was in response to the idea that McCluster doesn't do anything that Charles can't do better (which was not from you). And the point being that the role McCluster is currently playing, regardless of how people perceive if he's doing it well or not, is in a role that Charles shouldn't be playing regularly.

chiefzilla1501
12-05-2010, 09:09 PM
have to be honest, i don't see all these effects he supposedly has...and I'm particularly curious about the comparison to Jackson...there is no way defenses are responding to a slot WR who runs short and occasional mid-range routes as they do to Jackson who is probably the biggest home run threat in the league....

No comparison right now. Jackson is a proven badass playmaker. McCluster has a lot to prove. I'm only talking about the endaround stuff. McCluster hasn't proven to be a home run threat, but when he goes into motion behind the QB and the snap goes off, the defense has to at least be prepared for the snap to go to Charles or to a motioning McCluster in the opposite direction. It's just enough to take just a little attention away from Charles.

and how often do we run 2 back and 3 back sets?....maybe i just need to pay closer attention...i don't think today is a good piece of evidence for him, so i'm not holding it against him...
We don't, but when he's motioning, it's basically a 2-back set where either "back" can receive a handoff in a QB's natural handoff motion

it seems to me that Charles talents aren't significantly improved by lining him up next to mccluster....we need to stretch the defense vertically more than we need to stretch it horizontally...we need to take advantage of the defense's crowding of the los by getting behind them...for McCluster to do that he needs to be a wr, imo...he isn't good enough to be taking more snaps from charles

i'll be curious to see what he becomes next year....i think he needs to settle into a position, the jack of all trades things is valuable to a team without a great running game (faulk in new england) but not so much to a team with the best running back and best running game in the league..
McCluster probably won't be a deep threat. Like Welker, he's at his best if you can get the ball underneath to him in space. I agree they need to limit his up the gut runs and he needs to mature a lot as a receiver. I'm also curious to see how he progresses throughout his career.

dirk digler
12-05-2010, 09:09 PM
I think McCluster's value is out of the back field but not running up the gut and the slot. Get him out on the edge and also get him singled on a LB which is a total mismatch.

the Talking Can
12-05-2010, 09:14 PM
No comparison right now. Jackson is a proven badass playmaker. McCluster has a lot to prove. I'm only talking about the endaround stuff. McCluster hasn't proven to be a home run threat, but when he goes into motion behind the QB and the snap goes off, the defense has to at least be prepared for the snap to go to Charles or to a motioning McCluster in the opposite direction. It's just enough to take just a little attention away from Charles.


We don't, but when he's motioning, it's basically a 2-back set where either "back" can receive a handoff in a QB's natural handoff motion


McCluster probably won't be a deep threat. Like Welker, he's at his best if you can get the ball underneath to him in space. I agree they need to limit his up the gut runs and he needs to mature a lot as a receiver. I'm also curious to see how he progresses throughout his career.


just to clarify, when i talk about getting behind the defense, i don't mean using him like jackson..we need a deep threat but that's not mccluster

i mean using mccluster on say 7-10 yard routes where a lb has to try and cover him...as opposed to giving him the ball behind the line of scrimmage

chiefzilla1501
12-05-2010, 09:19 PM
just to clarify, when i talk about getting behind the defense, i don't mean using him like jackson..we need a deep threat but that's not mccluster

i mean using mccluster on say 7-10 yard routes where a lb has to try and cover him...as opposed to giving him the ball behind the line of scrimmage

Well, I think the bullshit where he's a single-back doing things Charles or Jones or Battle can do much better needs to stop. There is no value in him doing that.

Motioning him into the backfield, on the other hand, has netted some good yards but more importantly is a good way to use him as a decoy to take some attention away from Charles. And the good thing about the motion is you don't have to commit to him being an end-around guy. You can just snap the ball after he finishes his motion and sets as a receiver.

Frankie
12-05-2010, 09:21 PM
I agree. Anytime he touches the ball he can go to the house

And keep in mind, we don't know how far back from injury he was today. There's a good chance he was not a 100%

dirk digler
12-05-2010, 09:29 PM
Well, I think the bullshit where he's a single-back doing things Charles or Jones or Battle can do much better needs to stop. There is no value in him doing that.

Motioning him into the backfield, on the other hand, has netted some good yards but more importantly is a good way to use him as a decoy to take some attention away from Charles. And the good thing about the motion is you don't have to commit to him being an end-around guy. You can just snap the ball after he finishes his motion and sets as a receiver.

I have no problem for him being in a single back coming out of the backfield to be a receiver. It is a huge mismatch for whoever picks him up.

JASONSAUTO
12-05-2010, 09:44 PM
The only reason I didn't like the Moeaki pick is because of his injury history. So far he's stayed healthy.

I still don't like the Arenas pick. Nickel backs aren't worth 2nd round picks.

2 TD in 7 games is fucking amazing though. :rolleyes: didn't arenas have two sacks today?
Posted via Mobile Device

chiefzilla1501
12-05-2010, 10:01 PM
didn't arenas have two sacks today?
Posted via Mobile Device

Arenas had two sacks and has played solid in the Nickel this year, which is a good chunk of the snaps. At 2b, he's more than living up to the pick. Anyone who says otherwise has ridiculous expectations for what you should want from that pick.

stevieray
12-05-2010, 11:32 PM
Is it?


definitely. first off, those aren't 'fake' NFL defenses, second off...rankings don't mean squat, when it comes to actually playing the game on the field.

if it was that predictable, it would be boring and a waste of time.

that's why they play the games....the game is ALWAYS bigger than the players, records, and stats.

Frankie
12-05-2010, 11:45 PM
definitely. first off, those aren't 'fake' NFL defenses, second off...rankings don't mean squat, when it comes to actually playing the game on the field.

if it was that predictable, it would be boring and a waste of time.

that's why they play the games....the game is ALWAYS bigger than the players, records, and stats.

Now you and I don't agree on many things. But this post is right on.

Phobia
12-05-2010, 11:48 PM
I thought Bowe pushed off and that the holding flag was warranted on the McCluster run.

DaneMcCloud
12-06-2010, 12:11 AM
I thought Bowe pushed off and that the holding flag was warranted on the McCluster run.

Why do you hate the Chiefs so much?

Can't we all just get along?

stevieray
12-06-2010, 12:18 AM
I thought Bowe pushed off and that the holding flag was warranted on the McCluster run.
which is a sign of improvemnt..finished out two weeks in a row, and overcame the penalites, warranted or not. it's what good teams do...even though Moreno ran all over us, we didn't let them into the end zone....we're watching them transform in front of our eyes.


team arrow pointing up.

DaneMcCloud
12-06-2010, 12:21 AM
definitely. first off, those aren't 'fake' NFL defenses, second off...rankings don't mean squat, when it comes to actually playing the game on the field.


So, stats do or don't mean anything?

:D

J Diddy
12-06-2010, 12:52 AM
I thought Bowe pushed off and that the holding flag was warranted on the McCluster run.
I thought bowe pushed off but I didn't see squat on the mccluster run myself.

tbs a win is a win is a win...

DaneMcCloud
12-06-2010, 12:54 AM
I thought bowe pushed off but I didn't see squat on the mccluster run myself.

tbs a win is a win is a win...

I "saw" the hold but JFC, compared to helmet to helmet hits, tackling and holding opposing lineman and missing out on plays that SHOULD be reversed via Instant Replay, it was a very, if not extremely, minor offense.

But oh well. It was called and you move on. Tampa Bay was completely FUCKED today by Replay and lost the game.

Saccopoo
12-06-2010, 04:37 AM
You have extremely low standards for a second-round draft pick. And McCluster was a high 2nd.

The guy isn't an impact player as of yet and it's not even close. He cost us points today. Our offense didn't suffer in Seattle or against Arizona without him, either.

Benn, Misi or Beadles would have been substantially better picks that could have contributed more often, on a regular basis than McCluster. (Imagine Benn opposite of Bowe, or having Beadles play right tackle instead of Richardson or O'Murphy, or having Misi opposite of Hali.)

If they wanted a kick returner/part time wide out, Brandon Banks was a guy in our own backyard that could have been an easy free agent signing. McCluster is a less effective returner than Banks, who was an UDFA, that cost the team a second round pick that could have been used on a guy that could have contributed immediately and all game long.

McCluster is a gamer, a tough guy...but today, it looked like they sacrificed a lot of offense that was pretty effective recently in an attempt to get him involved in the game.

Saccopoo
12-06-2010, 04:40 AM
JC tore it up as a rookie. Oooops.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1OMiSrEJXnY/RxkCA2arbSI/AAAAAAAAEVs/bsg7r-pt_VA/s400/herm.jpg

Count Zarth
12-06-2010, 04:56 AM
JC tore it up as a rookie. Oooops.

He had over 600 yards from scrimmage, and he was a fucking third-round pick who was a backup, not someone who was being counted on to make plays necessarily.

McCluster has a whopping 240 yards of offense.

http://i44.tinypic.com/6e26te.jpg

Rukdafaidas
12-06-2010, 06:10 AM
Did you ever think that maybe he plays the role he does b/c he's a jack of all trades and a master of none?

As much as you may want him to be a slot WR, he's small for the position, and isn't exactly a polished route runner, despite preseason hype. He hasn't shown the ability to run between the tackles, but he has displayed ability in the return game.

I'm just glad that he was able to constantly draw double and triple teams today, which freed everything up for the rest of our offense.

http://www.kcchiefsblog.com/todd-haley/todd-haley-interview-on-wfan

On McCluster’s similarities to Dave Meggett:

Mo and I have talked a lot about that. This guy is a unique player. I think what sets him a part, though he’s still learning in this area, when you line him up as a receiver, he’s probably our best route runner we have. To me that’s the thing that makes him even a little more unique from some of the great Meggett, Faulk-type players – in no way comparing him to those guys because they have obviously proved it through time – but as he improves as a receiver and learns the subtleties of the position, I think he is a super versatile player on top of having some special teams return ability obviously that you saw.

Phobia
12-06-2010, 07:11 AM
Why do you hate the Chiefs so much?

Can't we all just get along?

Heh. I hate them on a lot of Sundays, no doubt. But when they showed the camera angle from the ref's viewpoint, I know why that flag was thrown.

The Bad Guy
12-06-2010, 07:36 AM
How can you forget Maclin, who is the best WR of the draft class and exactly what the Chiefs need on offense?

Hakeem Nicks is better than Maclin.

I love Maclin, but he benefits greatly by having DJax on the other side and an elusive QB who can keep plays alive.

The Bad Guy
12-06-2010, 07:38 AM
Hating on the Arenas pick is hilarious. The guy has played really well out of the slot this year (sans the Houston game).

Chief Henry
12-06-2010, 08:05 AM
I'll tell you a story about the sidelines. One year under Marty, we were playing the Houston Oilers with Warren Moon. They switched sidelines before the game, because the visiting sideline (on the north side of the field) is in the sun most of the game. It can be ten degrees warmer on the sunny side than in the shade, so Marty has the sides switched. Moon threw for over 400 yards that day, and beat KC bad. They haven't switched sidelines since. I think its more of an equalizer, and makes both teams equally cold on a day like today.



Does anyone know if a rules exists in the NFL about teams switching sides in the middle of the NFL season ? I was at yeaterdays game in section 328 - SW corner. The vsitors sideline was in the sun the intire game. I think it would benefit our Chiefs if they switched sidlines...imo.

Short Leash Hootie
12-06-2010, 08:22 AM
I like McCluster...

I like the fact that he could be a Jamaal Charles light if Jamaal Charles ever gets hurt...that's big for our offense.

I like that he can return kicks.

I like that he can catch passes and play out of the slot.

I like that he is a matchup problem for defenses...

and I loved that amazing run he had today where he got jobbed.

Yes, he fumbled. Fumbles happen. But the dude is a football player...he has heart. I like the pick. He'll settle into a role, and he's extremely versatile...I have no doubt that he could be a 10 carry back with big play potential if Charles were to ever go down...

We have the best and deepest rushing attack in the NFL...and all of our backs can catch well...and one of our backs starts at WR...

It's a good time to be a Chiefs fan.

gblowfish
12-06-2010, 08:56 AM
Agree with most of this, except there weren't 70K there today. I saw that attendance was 62K.

Too many empty seats for a division rivalry game with playoff implications.

It's hard to judge attendance now on cold days. The center gold section "rich guy seats" have a lot of empties, and that's because the fat cats all stay inside behind the glass in the warmth and drink scotch or whatever.

There is this little thing going on right now called "The Great Recession." I think the Chiefs are lucky to have as many fans as they do show up in this economic climate. Lots of people really hurting right now, and can't afford to go out and blow money on a Chiefs game, especially when it's 30 degrees out there.

gblowfish
12-06-2010, 09:01 AM
Is it?

The Chiefs have racked up big numbers against Houston, Seattle, Arizona, Denver, Buffalo and Jacksonville.

All of those teams rank 25th or worse in total defense.

We've had exactly one good game against a quality defense this year - San Francisco.

Doesn't inspire much confidence, especially when teams like the Raiders, Broncos and Colts have dominated our offense at times.

The lack of a quality receiving corps will be our death knell in the playoffs. For the same reason our #1 pick next year will probably be a receiver.

This message brought to you by Dexter McCluster.

Guys, guys guys...

WE ARE IN A PLAYOFF RACE, AND WE'RE THE TEAM TO CATCH!

We all would have given our left nut (and possibly the right nut as well) two years ago under Herm to have this going on right now.

Yes, we've had a weak schedule. So what? And yes, nothing is guaranteed. We could choke away all our remaining games and end up 8-8. Or we could sneak in at 9-7. No matter what, if we make the playoffs in 2010 that would be a MAJOR accomplishment for this team. And who knows what happens after that? All the playoffs is about is, who gets hot at the right time. Last year Indy was in the Super Bowl. Look at them now. Manning looked awful yesterday vs. the lowly Cowboys. This is one of those anything could happen kinds of years.

I'm excited. It's been a great ride so far, with a couple more dips on the roller coaster yet to come.

Chiefnj2
12-06-2010, 09:02 AM
We have the best and deepest rushing attack in the NFL..

They don't have the best rushing attack. Short yardage isn't very good.

Coogs
12-06-2010, 09:04 AM
I like McCluster...

I like the fact that he could be a Jamaal Charles light if Jamaal Charles ever gets hurt...that's big for our offense.

I like that he can return kicks.

I like that he can catch passes and play out of the slot.

I like that he is a matchup problem for defenses...

and I loved that amazing run he had today where he got jobbed.

Yes, he fumbled. Fumbles happen. But the dude is a football player...he has heart. I like the pick. He'll settle into a role, and he's extremely versatile...I have no doubt that he could be a 10 carry back with big play potential if Charles were to ever go down...

We have the best and deepest rushing attack in the NFL...and all of our backs can catch well...and one of our backs starts at WR...

It's a good time to be a Chiefs fan.

:clap:

gblowfish
12-06-2010, 09:13 AM
Does anyone know if a rules exists in the NFL about teams switching sides in the middle of the NFL season ? I was at yeaterdays game in section 328 - SW corner. The vsitors sideline was in the sun the intire game. I think it would benefit our Chiefs if they switched sidlines...imo.

I think another reason they don't switch is, oftentimes players can duck right down into the locker room from the steps behind the Chiefs bench for some quick medical attention during the game. If they were across the field that would be impossible. I think they like having that access right behind the bench. It's an advantage sometimes.

spanky 52
12-06-2010, 09:18 AM
Tucker is improving at WR. Our LB'ers don't tackle so good. Denver's OL is going to be pretty good in the coming years. Any word on Charles's hand injury and Flowers leg?

bobbything
12-06-2010, 09:39 AM
But I also believe something else was at play today because the offense was for the most part, very ineffective.
I don't know if I agree with this, at all. We controlled the clock very well, had 160+ rushing yards, again. 14 points were effectively wiped out by a false start, illegal procedure, and phantom holding call.

I thought, aside from a couple of 3-and-outs, the offense moved the ball with great efficiency. Two key drives would have ended in points if not for a bad officiating call, and back-to-back mental mistakes at the 2 yard line.

beach tribe
12-06-2010, 09:44 AM
I really wish that PI calls were reviewable.

I'm not going to say this is going on, but I think it's funny that Holding calls, and PI calls, can almost completely put the outcome of a game in the hands of the refs, and can be called at their discretion.
And if that doesn't work, they'll just use the "tuck" rule.
If that would have happened to any other team than the Raiduhs I'd still be pissed about it.