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acesn8s
12-12-2010, 10:36 PM
Croyle failed today because he sucks ass. Everything was called as normal except an end around. And its not like that play is called every game anyways. Croyle was in the shotgun, under center, play action, threw deep, threw short, screens, and bootlegs. The play calling was not the problem of our offense; decision making was the problem. Croyle checks down too much and tries to throw a bullet on short pass plays. His accuracy is horrible. And he is indecisive when pressured.

Here is a breakdown of his performance.

After 4 straight runs gaining 13 yards and a 1st down, Croyle throws on 3rd and 10 to Copper for a WR screen losing 1 yard. Chiefs punt.

After a 1 yard loss by Jones, Croyle checks down to Charles for a gain of 4 yards on 2nd and 11 while a wide open McCluster breaks to the sideline with room to run. On 3rd and 7 Croyle over throws Copper. Chiefs punt.

On 1st and 10, Croyle is sacked for a 12 yard loss after a horrible attempt of a play action fake. After a run by Charles, Croyle checks down with a quick throw to Moeaki for 8 yards on 3rd and 18. Chiefs punt.

After Charles gains a 1st down and 16 yards, Croyle passes on a bootleg on 2nd and 4 to Moeaki for 5 yards. After a 2 yard run by Charles, Croyle throws a deep incomplete pass out of bounds toward Bowe. From the shotgun position on 3rd and 8 Croyle checks down to Bowe on an underneath route for 3 yards. Chiefs Punt.

From the shotgun position on 1st and 10, Croyle throws an incomplete pass toward Bow that was high and away from Bowe. From the shotgun position on 2nd and 10, Croyle throws over the middle to Copper for a 16 yard gain. From the shotgun position on 1st and 10, Croyle steps up in the pocket and checks down to Charles for 5 yards. From the shotgun position on 2nd and 5, Croyle throws a high pass toward Bowe deep that falls incomplete. From the shotgun position on 3rd and 5, Croyle holds the ball for 4 seconds before running back toward 2 of the 3 pass rushers and is sacked for a 11 yard loss. Halftime.

After two rushes by Charles and a gain of 3 yards, Croyle targets Bowe again and again throws an incomplete pass on 3rd and 7. He never takes his eyes off Bowe and throws a bullet that a diving Bowe cannot handle. Chiefs punt.

After two rushes by Charles and a gain of 4 yards, Croyle targets Bowe again and again throws an incomplete pass on 3rd and 16. Croyle play fakes to an invisible RB, bootlegs and throws to a covered Bowe on the sideline. Chiefs punt.

On 1st and 10, Croyle looks right, cocks to throw but never does and is sacked for a 6 yard loss. On 2nd and 16, Croyle under throws Bowe deep and the ball is deflected by the defender for an incomplete pass. On 3rd and 16 from the shotgun position, Croyle throws a screen pass toward Charles into the hands of a defensive lineman for an incomplete pass. Chiefs punt.

On 1st and 15 from the shotgun position, Croyle's 18 yard pass is well defended and falls incomplete. Tucker never gets his hands on the ball. On 2nd and 15 from the shotgun position, Croyle's 13 yard pass is knocked down by the defender and falls incomplete. Tucker never touches the ball. On 3rd and 15 from the shotgun position, Croyle steps up in the pocket, pump fakes and is sacked; never releasing the ball even though McCluster is apparently open near the first down marker. Chiefs punt.

Palko enters the game and goes 2 of 3 for 8 yards. Croyle's day is done going 7 of 17 for 40 yards.

Guru
12-12-2010, 10:40 PM
Who's blaming the play calling. The entire team sucked today.

salame
12-12-2010, 10:41 PM
The defensive play calling?

Pawnmower
12-12-2010, 10:42 PM
Oh Cool, another "black or white" type of thread....

I choose grey

Rausch
12-12-2010, 10:43 PM
This is tired and old already.

If you say Croyle sucked you hate him.

If you point out that the entire team sucked it means you're making excuses for Croyle.

Bull$3it.

TEAM SUCK.

ALL SUCK.

COACHES SUCKED. Probably, the worst suck. I place most the blame on the coaching staff for allowing this performance...

Pawnmower
12-12-2010, 10:49 PM
You know...We can all fall into the trap of "trying to be right" too often....(on CP and in life).

I have had some tremendously complex situations and problems in my life...I help run a fairly substantial business..I have been involved with some crazy lawsuits (on both sides) and some intensely complicated business matters...

The truth that no one ever wants to hear is that usually there is not ONE single factor leading to a hard to solve problem problem....Usually there are a myriad of variables and a wide array of factors leading to the problem and it becomes very difficult to tell which variable has what effect.

Whenever people try to point to one particular thing as the entire cause of a complex problem, you can be almost certain they are not correct.

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2010, 10:52 PM
This is tired and old already.

If you say Croyle sucked you hate him.

If you point out that the entire team sucked it means you're making excuses for Croyle.

Bull$3it.

TEAM SUCK.

ALL SUCK.

COACHES SUCKED. Probably, the worst suck. I place most the blame on the coaching staff for allowing this performance...

And the play calling was really bad.

Guru
12-12-2010, 10:52 PM
And the play calling was really bad.
LMAO

chiefzilla1501
12-12-2010, 10:52 PM
This is tired and old already.

If you say Croyle sucked you hate him.

If you point out that the entire team sucked it means you're making excuses for Croyle.

Bull$3it.

TEAM SUCK.

ALL SUCK.

COACHES SUCKED. Probably, the worst suck. I place most the blame on the coaching staff for allowing this performance...

The point is, and it's a perfectly valid one, that bad QB play holds the entire team back.

It's something Cassel critics have pointed out time and time again, and about how important good QB play is to win games. And it's something I agree with 100%. The blame always starts with the QB, especially when the QB plays as poorly as Brodie did.

I'm by no means a Cassel apologist. But it tells you a lot about the fan base when Cassel is blamed by some for losing a 400+ yard game and blamed by everyone when he throws for 150-200 yards but screws up a few key plays, while Croyle throws for 40 yards and suddenly it's a team loss.

And for the record, yes, I think the criticisms of Cassel this year are more than fair.

Rausch
12-12-2010, 10:55 PM
The point is, and it's a perfectly valid one, that bad QB play holds the entire team back.

It's something Cassel critics have pointed out time and time again, and about how important good QB play is to win games. And it's something I agree with 100%. The blame always starts with the QB, especially when the QB plays as poorly as Brodie did.

I'm by no means a Cassel apologist. But it tells you a lot about the fan base when Cassel is blamed by some for losing a 400+ yard game and blamed by everyone when he throws for 150-200 yards but screws up a few key plays, while Croyle throws for 40 yards and suddenly it's a team loss.

And for the record, yes, I think the criticisms of Cassel this year are more than fair.

So what the fuck is your point?...

Pawnmower
12-12-2010, 10:56 PM
I'm by no means a Cassel apologist. But it tells you a lot about the fan base when Cassel is blamed by some for losing a 400+ yard game and blamed by everyone when he throws for 150-200 yards but screws up a few key plays, while Croyle throws for 40 yards and suddenly it's a team loss.


I agree with this sentiment except I believe that the loud, obnoxious, vocal minority (Pants, ROR, Gifhorse) and the like do not represent the typical fan base, and in fact are over-represented here on CP.

DBOSHO
12-12-2010, 10:58 PM
What i find funny about that dropped pass by bowe, is that that ball is equally as difficult if not easier to catch than the pass bowe dropped in the raiders game to seal it, but since brodie sucks and he "gunned it" to bowe, its a terrible pass.

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2010, 10:58 PM
So what the **** is your point?...

The fan base, we are the problem. It's our fault they lost today

chiefzilla1501
12-12-2010, 10:59 PM
So what the **** is your point?...

That it's a pretty clear double standard that the same people who have ripped Cassel apart for screwing up 3 or 4 plays in a loss are the same ones saying it's a team loss when Brodie Croyle screws up 15 and makes pretty much no positive plays.

I think Cassel is responsible for every loss except Oakland. And Croyle is extremely responsible for the loss against San Diego. For as bad as Cassel has played at times this year, Croyle's performance this season was far worse than Cassel's worst game.

Pawnmower
12-12-2010, 11:00 PM
What i find funny about that dropped pass by bowe, is that that ball is equally as difficult if not easier to catch than the pass bowe dropped in the raiders game to seal it, but since brodie sucks and he "gunned it" to bowe, its a terrible pass.

That wasn't the take that most people had...In fact it was the opposite during the game thread. Most people wanted to give blame to Bowe for it, at least to some degree if not the majority of the blame.

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2010, 11:03 PM
That it's a pretty clear double standard that the same people who have ripped Cassel apart for screwing up 3 or 4 plays in a loss are the same ones saying it's a team loss when Brodie Croyle screws up 15 and makes pretty much no positive plays.

I think Cassel is responsible for every loss except Oakland. And Croyle is extremely responsible for the loss against San Diego. For as bad as Cassel has played at times this year, Croyle's performance this season was far worse than Cassel's worst game.

Thanks Captain Obvious.

chiefzilla1501
12-12-2010, 11:05 PM
Thanks Captain Obvious.

You'd think it was obvious, except that there are still people blaming playcalling and I have neg reps that say I'm an idiot for having the audacity to not blame Croyle's performance on the offensive line.

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2010, 11:13 PM
You'd think it was obvious, except that there are still people blaming playcalling and I have neg reps that say I'm an idiot for having the audacity to not blame Croyle's performance on the offensive line.

There are a lot of factors at work here. Croyle was rusty, nervous and overthrowing. That being said the O lines performance today was and obamination. You don't need to look any further than our offensive yardage total to see that. Lastly as much as you don't want it being said the play calling was predictable as hell. They were loading the box to stop the run and you would think they would call some play action to get Brodie going but Nooooooooooo, we get the predictable runs until we must pass scenario over and over. It's was a problem.

salame
12-12-2010, 11:14 PM
http://demotivatorsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/1193774867586.7kqr0fwuwxs0ks0k8488wwk08.ap2qhjyqp08cgc0c80ss4cco4.th.jpeg

SNR
12-12-2010, 11:18 PM
tk13 pointed this out earlier that the Cassel injury allowed each side to over-simplify their beliefs about this team and make it impossible to look at the real problems the team was having.

And it's not going to stop. Cassel will come back next game and the Chiefs will win (at least I'm predicting a win. Maybe that's premature as bad as we are on the road). When he does, lots of people are going to say outrageous things.

And they're totally unwarranted. The San Diego and St. Louis games are apples to oranges as far as I'm concerned. Especially if this team finds a nutsack between now and December 20th

Pawnmower
12-12-2010, 11:24 PM
And it's not going to stop. Cassel will come back next game and the Chiefs will win (at least I'm predicting a win. Maybe that's premature as bad as we are on the road). When he does, lots of people are going to say outrageous things.


People were saying outrageous things about Cassel before we played even one game this season....When he plays badly, people say outrageous negative things..Of course when he does well it will shift to the opposite......

We need him at QB now. The guy plays with heart and passion. He seems to have this team....

I don't think those things are outrageous.

chiefzilla1501
12-12-2010, 11:25 PM
There are a lot of factors at work here. Croyle was rusty, nervous and overthrowing. That being said the O lines performance today was and obamination. You don't need to look any further than our offensive yardage total to see that. Lastly as much as you don't want it being said the play calling was predictable as hell. They were loading the box to stop the run and you would think they would call some play action to get Brodie going but Nooooooooooo, we get the predictable runs until we must pass scenario over and over. It's was a problem.

The offensive line gave Brodie enough to make plays. Brodie didn't make them. It's that simple. The offensive line didn't force him to check down umpteen times today. The offensive line in most of his overthrows didn't influence his throws.

And I don't know where people are getting the idea that we were predictably running the ball. I repeat that 4 out of the 5 drives in the first half were killed when we threw the ball 2 out of the 3 downs. And yes, plenty of those plays were playaction, but Brodie's mechanics are just godawful. On the sack he took on the playaction, he took a 5-7 step drop in addition to the 3 or 4 steps he took to get to the ball carrier.

I'm not saying Croyle's a bad QB. Maybe with reps he can be better. But let's not make excuses for the guy. The Chiefs put the kid's gloves on him on the first drive. After that, they opened up the offense and Croyle played horribly. The original post in this thread phenomenally broke his performance down.

pr_capone
12-12-2010, 11:37 PM
The offensive line gave Brodie enough to make plays. Brodie didn't make them. It's that simple. The offensive line didn't force him to check down umpteen times today. The offensive line in most of his overthrows didn't influence his throws.

Are you kidding me??? The offensive line gave Brodie no chance in hell to get a groove going. The guy was almost always on the run.

Not to say that Brokie played well by any means. There were a few times that he could have moved up in the pocket and kept the play alive but he instead chose to dump it off or rush the pass leading to an incompletion.

This is by FAR the worst game this offensive line has had all season.

BIG_DADDY
12-12-2010, 11:43 PM
The offensive line gave Brodie enough to make plays. Brodie didn't make them. It's that simple. The offensive line didn't force him to check down umpteen times today. The offensive line in most of his overthrows didn't influence his throws.

And I don't know where people are getting the idea that we were predictably running the ball. I repeat that 4 out of the 5 drives in the first half were killed when we threw the ball 2 out of the 3 downs. And yes, plenty of those plays were playaction, but Brodie's mechanics are just godawful. On the sack he took on the playaction, he took a 5-7 step drop in addition to the 3 or 4 steps he took to get to the ball carrier.

I'm not saying Croyle's a bad QB. Maybe with reps he can be better. But let's not make excuses for the guy. The Chiefs put the kid's gloves on him on the first drive. After that, they opened up the offense and Croyle played horribly. The original post in this thread phenomenally broke his performance down.
This is where we have to agree to disagree. Obviously we were watching different games.

DaneMcCloud
12-12-2010, 11:44 PM
That wasn't the take that most people had...In fact it was the opposite during the game thread. Most people wanted to give blame to Bowe for it, at least to some degree if not the majority of the blame.

Maybe it's time for you to leave the retards in the game thread and hit the Game Chat.

DaneMcCloud
12-12-2010, 11:46 PM
People were saying outrageous things about Cassel before we played even one game this season

How is this relevant to 12/12/10?

And for the record, what was outrageous?

The guy was nothing short of awful last year.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-12-2010, 11:47 PM
Are you kidding me??? The offensive line gave Brodie no chance in hell to get a groove going. The guy was almost always on the run.

Not to say that Brokie played well by any means. There were a few times that he could have moved up in the pocket and kept the play alive but he instead chose to dump it off or rush the pass leading to an incompletion.

This is by FAR the worst game this offensive line has had all season.

The blocking by everyone was an embarrassment. Every Chiefs player and coach should donate their salaries to charity, save for Eric Berry and Tyson Jackson.

Pawnmower
12-12-2010, 11:49 PM
How is this relevant to 12/12/10?

The guy was nothing short of awful last year.

LOL so LAST YEAR was relevant to This year but this year is NOT relevant to this year?

Wow good point, I never thought about it like that...

Im sure glad you pointed that out.

http://www.mileanhour.com/files/2010/3/congrats-retard.jpg

DaneMcCloud
12-12-2010, 11:51 PM
LOL so LAST YEAR was relevant to This year but this year is NOT relevant to this year?

Wow good point, I never thought about it like that...

Im sure glad you pointed that out.



Fuck you. You truly are a fucking retard.

Are you one of Matt Cassel's siblings? JFC, you defend the guy like he saved your life.

People were "saying" things about Cassel in August based on his shit play in 2009. Duh.

Dumbass.

Pawnmower
12-12-2010, 11:56 PM
People were "saying" things about Cassel in August based on his shit play in 2009. Duh.

.

Right...and they were wrong about a lot of what they said...They weren't placing enough of the blame in other places.......(O-line, lack of overall talent on the team, defense, he needed more time to grow/learn etc..)

They also said things like he should be benched, Croyle would take the job over....blah blah blah...

They were wrong...

Say it with me...

Rausch
12-13-2010, 12:04 AM
What i find funny about that dropped pass by bowe, is that that ball is equally as difficult if not easier to catch than the pass bowe dropped in the raiders game to seal it, but since brodie sucks and he "gunned it" to bowe, its a terrible pass.

Let me be clear: I want this motherfucker off my team.

PERIOD.

When you need him most he folds, fucks up, bobbles passes, and otherwise sucks.

DO NOT WANT...

Pawnmower
12-13-2010, 12:06 AM
Let me be clear: I want this mother****er off my team.

PERIOD.

When you need him most he folds, ****s up, bobbles passes, and otherwise sucks.

DO NOT WANT...

Hard core...

I wouldnt go that far but he has pissed me off a few times

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 12:10 AM
This is where we have to agree to disagree. Obviously we were watching different games.

Feel free to dispute any of these points (note, order of plays might be out of sequence as I just quickly compiled. May have forgotten a play or two too.

Series 1: This is on Weis
Pass 1: conservative wide receiver screen to Copper

Series 2: This is entirely on Croyle
Pass 2: 5-step drop. No pass rushers. Croyle for some reason checks down to Charles for 4 yards.
Pass 3: shotgun. Croyle feels pressure on edge rush. Has enormously clean pocket if he takes just one step to the left. And he COMPLETELY doesn't see Bowe who is wide open on a short crossing route.

Series 3: Barry Richardson blows a block here. But Croyle completely whiffs on an opportunity to make a play on 3rd down.
Pass 4: Playaction sprint right to Moeaki--good play
Pass 5: Barry Richardson completely blows a block. That's on him.
Pass 6: Croyle has plenty of time. Checks down. Want you to look to Brodie's far left. Chris Chambers has a million miles of real estate.

Series 4: Well, this was a TD or bust drive. The protection was fine on this sequence. QB play was average.
Pass 7: No pressure on Croyle--completely misfires a sideline route to Bowe
Pass 8: Croyle sees pressure. But he also holds on to the ball for about 5 seconds. Very good pass to Copper
Pass 9: Croyle swarmed. Nice job stepping up in the pocket. Checks down to Charles but that's the right throw there
Pass 10: No pressure. Clear overthrow to Bowe
Pass 11: Croyle takes a sack. But given that it was a TD or bust deep pass, that's not on him (nor is it really on the o-line)


Series 5: Some blame on Bowe. Some on Cassel.
Pass 12: Quick slant route. As milkman pointed out, Bowe should catch that, but a little touch please.

Series 6: Refs missed an interference call here
Next pass: annulled--good use of pocket. Fires to Bowe for a completion that's negated
Pass 13: Playaction rollout. Thomas Jones throws a great interior block here. Croyle rolls out but he doesn't have to. He throws a good pass that I think Jammer interfered with

Series 7: Don't think he should have taken a sack on first down here. This drive is on Croyle, but it's not a bad one.
Pass 14: What the **** are you doing, Brodie? You have three receivers on the left and all you have are two corners playing 15 yards off the ball. Instead, you try to force the ball into the guy on the right in single coverage. And to boot, SD sends a blitzer from the left. The read should have been the left on a hot route. Poor protection there, but poor read.
Pass 15: Great protection. Croyle throws a great pass but well defended deep pass to Bowe
Pass 16: Poorly executed screen pass to Charles. Gotta clear that defender

Series 8: This drive isn't on Croyle
Pass called back: Great protection. Great finding Bowe
Pass 18: Poor protection. Great job stepping up in the pocket. Misfires to Tucker.
Pass 19: Protection is fine. But not sure there's much of anything open
Pass 20: Croyle steps up way too far in the pocket. His pocket collapsed into him, but the protection is good enough to get a throw or a throwaway

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 12:18 AM
Are you kidding me??? The offensive line gave Brodie no chance in hell to get a groove going. The guy was almost always on the run.

Not to say that Brokie played well by any means. There were a few times that he could have moved up in the pocket and kept the play alive but he instead chose to dump it off or rush the pass leading to an incompletion.

This is by FAR the worst game this offensive line has had all season.

Read my summary and feel free to dispute:
First half:
Good pocket: 6 passes
Poor protection: 3 passes (one being on "hail mary" at end of half, another being a playaction where he took about a 10-step drop)
Coverage sack: 1 pass
Could have avoided pressure: 1 pass

Second half
Good pocket: 6 passes
Poor protection 3 passes
Could have avoided pressure: 1 pass

There were more than enough sequences where he had a clean chance to make a play and didn't.

J Diddy
12-13-2010, 12:21 AM
So I take it nobodys none too happy with bro and ten....?

Rausch
12-13-2010, 12:23 AM
There were more than enough sequences where he had a clean chance to make a play and didn't.

Yup.

And the rest of our team sucked as well.

Flowers got bent over and then posed for a facial.

Our entire D line, if any of them had any pride at all, would be committing seppuku as I type.

Fuck our offensive line. Fuck them. I'm..........FUCK THEM.

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 12:24 AM
lol

back to Bowe bashing?

hahahaha

God damn these fans.

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 12:26 AM
Yup.

And the rest of our team sucked as well.

Flowers got bent over and then posed for a facial.

Our entire D line, if any of them had any pride at all, would be committing seppuku as I type.

**** our offensive line. **** them. I'm..........**** THEM.

In the first half, the offensive supporting cast wasn't horrible. They weren't good, but certainly not horrible. Croyle simply did not make plays. What I believe happened was that the Chiefs had no confidence in their QB and played like they were doomed. In the second half, they gave up.

That's where I think coaching deserves to be blamed. Not in the playcalling.

And what's also interesting is that I thought Croyle started to play a lot better in the second half, which was unfortunately the point when I thought our offensive line started to give up.

Jayhawkerman2001
12-13-2010, 12:29 AM
how many times was croyle sacked today!? how many times has cassel been sacked this year?

Rausch
12-13-2010, 12:35 AM
how many times was croyle sacked today!? how many times has cassel been sacked this year?

How many times have we played like total dog$3it vs. a division opponent this year?

Most of them...

Jayhawkerman2001
12-13-2010, 12:39 AM
How many times have we played like total dog$3it vs. a division opponent this year?

Most of them...

im just saying this cant solely be blamed on brody... So much of the time he was pressured, while cassel hasnt had that problem much at all this year

Rausch
12-13-2010, 12:43 AM
im just saying this cant solely be blamed on brody...



That's what I said.

You probably couldn't hear it over chiefzilla1501 making excuses for Croyle...


So much of the time he was pressured, while cassel hasnt had that problem much at all this year

We don't play the Chargers that often...

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 12:46 AM
im just saying this cant solely be blamed on brody... So much of the time he was pressured, while cassel hasnt had that problem much at all this year

He wasn't pressured nearly as much as people are screaming about. And the QB can make the o-line look much better. Croyle did not have terrible protection in the first half. It was actually decent.

And it goes without saying that if your QB doesn't make plays, the defense isn't going to respect you. If Croyle wants the Chargers to stop blitzing, he needs to make them pay when they do.

Jayhawkerman2001
12-13-2010, 12:48 AM
i just dont know what to feel... pissed off? or just utterly depressed? It was kinda nice the past 5 or so years not having to go through this heart attack waiting to happen... but i wouldnt change it for the world, if the chiefs do infact make the playoffs

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 12:49 AM
That's what I said.

You probably couldn't hear it over chiefzilla1501 making excuses for Croyle...




We don't play the Chargers that often...

I don't get it. The protection against Indianapolis was as bad if not worse than the protection against San Diego.

I said that game was Cassel's fault. And it was. But Cassel was a shitload more productive that day than Brodie was today.

And the same people who ripped Cassel a new asshole for that performance are the same ones claiming that Croyle didn't have any protection.

It's a ridiculous double standard.

Jayhawkerman2001
12-13-2010, 12:51 AM
I don't get it. The protection against Indianapolis was as bad if not worse than the protection against San Diego.

I said that game was Cassel's fault. And it was. But Cassel was a shitload more productive that day than Brodie was today.

And the same people who ripped Cassel a new asshole for that performance are the same ones claiming that Croyle didn't have any protection.

It's a ridiculous double standard.

no matter who we had at quarterback out there we werent going to win this game... you could tell from the onset that we just didnt want it at all, and that the chargers were on a mission

J Diddy
12-13-2010, 12:54 AM
How many times have we played like total dog$3it vs. a division opponent this year?

Most of them...

obviously arrowhead is worth a 40 point advantage for us

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 12:55 AM
no matter who we had at quarterback out there we werent going to win this game... you could tell from the onset that we just didnt want it at all, and that the chargers were on a mission

Well, I think the team walked in with a defeated attitude. They didn't have confidence in Croyle and that's a reflection of coaching--they can't make the team feel like they have no chance to win just b/c the backup's in.

I do wonder if the Chiefs had a chance with Cassel. I think the gameplan would have been more open, he would have taken better advantage of his pocket, and the defense would have been more respectful of the pass. That's all guesswork, though. QUite possible Cassel lays a big gooseegg against SD.

Jayhawkerman2001
12-13-2010, 12:56 AM
obviously arrowhead is worth a 40 point advantage for us

i hope to god so. hopefully arrowhead east will be the same this coming sunday. I hope to god chiefs fans come out in droves to take over that fucking stadium to make it an extended home game!

Jayhawkerman2001
12-13-2010, 12:57 AM
Well, I think the team walked in with a defeated attitude. They didn't have confidence in Croyle and that's a reflection of coaching--they can't make the team feel like they have no chance to win just b/c the backup's in.

I do wonder if the Chiefs had a chance with Cassel. I think the gameplan would have been more open, he would have taken better advantage of his pocket, and the defense would have been more respectful of the pass. That's all guesswork, though. QUite possible Cassel lays a big gooseegg against SD.

thats exactly how it looked to me as well... i had the feeling that the coaches went into the game telling their guys that hey, we lose this and it doesnt matter, we're still in the lead

Rausch
12-13-2010, 12:57 AM
He wasn't pressured nearly as much as people are screaming about. And the QB can make the o-line look much better. Croyle did not have terrible protection in the first half. It was actually decent.

And it goes without saying that if your QB doesn't make plays, the defense isn't going to respect you. If Croyle wants the Chargers to stop blitzing, he needs to make them pay when they do.

Croyle only threw the ball 17 times.

We know, for a fact, Bowe dropped 2 of them. Our 2nd string TE dropped another.

Passes that hit them in the fucking hands.

That leaves 14 passes all on Croyle (not really, but let's follow this through.)

The bar for average is 50% completion percentage, right?

He completed 7 passes. 7 OF 14 passes (if one subtracts disgraceful drops.)

How many times did he turn the ball over?

How many fumbles? How many INT's? Did he leave with an injury?

No. He did exactly what he was asked to do.

Play safe and do not turn the ball over.

He did absolutely nothing good and nothing bad...

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 01:05 AM
Croyle only threw the ball 17 times.

We know, for a fact, Bowe dropped 2 of them. Our 2nd string TE dropped another.

Passes that hit them in the ****ing hands.
Bowe only dropped one pass that i know of. If you're talking about the deep pass, that was a well defended ball. Not sure what you're talking about on the TE front.

That leaves 14 passes all on Croyle (not really, but let's follow this through.)

The bar for average is 50% completion percentage, right?

He completed 7 passes. 7 OF 14 passes (if one subtracts disgraceful drops.)
50% is below average. Average is about 55-60%. And you have to factor in sacks, which are worse than incompletions.

How many times did he turn the ball over?

How many fumbles? How many INT's? Did he leave with an injury?
Isn't this the same bad argument Cassel supporters used earlier in the year? The difference is that Cassel also usually doesn't take sacks either.

No. He did exactly what he was asked to do.

Play safe and do not turn the ball over.

He did absolutely nothing good and nothing bad...
Nothing bad? He overthrew open receivers, repeatedly checked down a few yards downfield instead of throwing near the chains, screwed up a few plays because he didn't use his pocket well. He was horrible on third downs and on second downs did nothing to make 3rd downs makeable. He did nothing good. You're right. He did several things very badly. Not all things. But several.

Rausch
12-13-2010, 01:22 AM
Not sure what you're talking about on the TE front.

Lines up outside the tackle. Bigger than a WR but still catches passes every now and again.


50% is below average. Average is about 55-60%. And you have to factor in sacks, which are worse than incompletions.

For a GOOD STARTING QB, yes.

Not the NFL average starter, or a B/U, for that matter.


He did nothing good. You're right. He did several things very badly. Not all things. But several.

On that we agree.

Here is the point I've done a very poor job of getting across: unless I've missed something Croyle threw the least amount of passes this week of any starting QB and lost by the BIGGEST margin.

I would have felt better about Croyle being 7 of 30 than 7 of 17.

I'm not going to argue the extra passing attempts would make him more comfortable, more in the game, or more productive. Not at all.

ONLY THAT WE WERE TRYING TO WIN.

It would mean that on 3rd and 12 we tried to get 12. Or down by 21 we actually WANTED to catch up and cared that time was running out...

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 01:25 AM
Croyle had a chance to make $20M today...

and he shit himself

now he'll be a career backup who may not have a career after this season

it's too bad

this was his shot and he blew it

Rausch
12-13-2010, 01:27 AM
Croyle had a chance to make $20M today...

Not even........you are hitting the fucking pipe.

and he shit himself

now he'll be a career backup...

No, he'll be a 3rd stringer for a good team next year IF HE'S LUCKY...

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 01:29 AM
not even?

If Croyle rallied the team and led them to a win and posted a line of something like...

21-30 for 250 and 2 TD's...

he could've drawn, easily, a starting QB contract from a number of teams

instead his career went right down the drain

that was his last chance

I feel bad for the guy

Just Passin' By
12-13-2010, 01:32 AM
The playcalling had this team at 8-4 with a better QB under center. Suddenly, it's all the playcalling?

Same bullshit excuse that the fans of every losing team in the NFL fall back on.

Rausch
12-13-2010, 01:33 AM
not even?

If Croyle rallied the team and led them to a win and posted a line of something like...

21-30 for 250 and 2 TD's...

he could've drawn, easily, a starting QB contract from a number of teams

instead his career went right down the drain

that was his last chance

I feel bad for the guy

So based on one game he was going to land starting QB pay?

You the fucking guy that inked Frank Reich's contract?...

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 01:33 AM
The playcalling had this team at 8-4 with a better QB under center. Suddenly, it's all the playcalling?

Same bullshit excuse that the fans of every losing team in the NFL fall back on.

not me

the only damn thing I took from this debacle was the fact I'll never, ever, ever, ever again take Cassel for granted

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 01:36 AM
and in all honesty

it has more with the fact he has total command of the offense, the huddle, the plays, the execution...

dude is a winner...he plays with fire...and plays with emotion

Croyle looked like dogshit today...even if he was dealt a shit hand he still played like dogshit, looked like dogshit, and had no control...

he didn't want to be out there

Rausch
12-13-2010, 01:36 AM
not me

the only damn thing I took from this debacle was the fact I'll never, ever, ever, ever again take Cassel for granted

Don't ever get married...

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 01:37 AM
So based on one game he was going to land starting QB pay?

You the ****ing guy that inked Frank Reich's contract?...

absolutely

he was a fairly high draft pick with a ton of talent

this was basically a playoff clinching game for us...he had the chance to be in the spotlight and earn his pay and set up his family for generations

if he had a monster game, or even an average game, or any sort of game where he flashed some of that "potential"...

there would have been a number of teams that would have taken a chance on him

or did you already forget about San Diego, Seattle and Charlie Whitehurst?

you did, didn't you?

Rausch
12-13-2010, 01:40 AM
absolutely

he was a fairly high draft pick with a ton of talent

Third fucking round...


this was basically a playoff clinching game for us...he had the chance to be in the spotlight and earn his pay and set up his family for generations

if he had a monster game, or even an average game, or any sort of game where he flashed some of that "potential"...

there would have been a number of teams that would have taken a chance on him


You do realize he had A WHOLE FUCKING SEASON to do the same thing before, right?

No GM worth a fuck is going to make his mind up based on 17 passes in one game...

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 01:43 AM
Third ****ing round...




You do realize he had A WHOLE ****ING SEASON to do the same thing before, right?

No GM worth a **** is going to make his mind up based on 17 passes in one game...

what are you arguing?

If Croyle came out and had a great game he would have gotten a great contract from a team looking for a QB...period.

He could have gotten a top tier backup QB contract for a team looking for a starter...like $5+M a year

this was his chance and he blew it

I mean...he could land a backup gig next year...we may resign him for peanuts...or he could be out of the NFL...who knows...

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-13-2010, 01:44 AM
The playcalling had this team at 8-4 with a better QB under center. Suddenly, it's all the playcalling?

Same bullshit excuse that the fans of every losing team in the NFL fall back on.

No, this is the same playcalling that saw Cassel completely shit the bed to the extent that after the first two games of the year, people wanted Croyle.

68 Yards in the first game against a SD team with little pass rush.

176 yards, two picks, and a 46.2 QB rating against a Cleveland team that was playing atrociously.

It's not a coincidence that your QB often dies when you play RRPP. #1, they only throw in predictable situations, which means that #2, the pass rushers can tee off against them.

Rausch
12-13-2010, 01:45 AM
what are you arguing?

If Croyle came out and had a great game he would have gotten a great contract from a team looking for a QB...period.

He could have gotten a top tier backup QB contract for a team looking for a starter...like $5+M a year

this was his chance and he blew it

I mean...he could land a backup gig next year...we may resign him for peanuts...or he could be out of the NFL...who knows...

He threw 17 passes and our defense puked up 2,000 pts.

This is not the performance his offseason contract will be based on I promise you...

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 01:46 AM
He threw 17 passes and our defense puked up 2,000 pts.

This is not the performance his offseason contract will be based on I promise you...

this performance cost him millions of dollars...

if you want to pretend that isn't true than go ahead

but it is true

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-13-2010, 01:50 AM
this performance cost him millions of dollars...

if you want to pretend that isn't true than go ahead

but it is true

No it didn't.

Charlie Whitehurst never even attempted an NFL pass before this season.

The closest comp was Matt Schaub, who had around 80 NFL passes before the Texans trade. Croyle has far more NFL experience under his belt than Schaub did.

Rausch
12-13-2010, 01:51 AM
this performance cost him millions of dollars...

if you want to pretend that isn't true than go ahead

but it is true

I don't care how much the fucking guy makes.

Do. Not. Care.

The only thing I care about is the Chiefs record and how I can get Mrs. Croyle into a bar so I can slip her some Seabass Sauce...

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 01:52 AM
No it didn't.

Charlie Whitehurst never even attempted an NFL pass before this season.

The closest comp was Matt Schaub, who had around 80 NFL passes before the Texans trade. Croyle has far more NFL experience under his belt than Schaub did.

haha

the dude is going to be an UFA

after this shitfest

he is going to garner almost zero interest...his best chance is resigning as our backup now

if he lit it up and won us this game and played an amazing game...

he would have made millions of dollars more than he's going to make now

that is fact

if you want to pretend otherwise, go for it...it's not like you're ever right anyways

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-13-2010, 01:58 AM
haha

the dude is going to be an UFA

after this shitfest

he is going to garner almost zero interest...his best chance is resigning as our backup now

if he lit it up and won us this game and played an amazing game...

he would have made millions of dollars more than he's going to make now

that is fact

if you want to pretend otherwise, go for it...it's not like you're ever right anyways

This is why no one takes you seriously. When presented with empirical evidence, you just disappear into mythical Hootie-land where Tony Romo is a Hall of Famer and the Texans are the third best team in the AFC.

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 02:01 AM
This is why no one takes you seriously. When presented with empirical evidence, you just disappear into mythical Hootie-land where Tony Romo is a Hall of Famer and the Texans are the third best team in the AFC.

before I say anything...please show me a post where I said the Texans were the 3rd best team in the AFC...go on

next

you're telling me that, had Croyle had a monster game and showed some heart and led us to an inspirational victory...you're telling me he wouldn't have garnered some serious interest on the free agency market?

really?

really?

really?

really?

hahahaha

Rausch
12-13-2010, 02:01 AM
This is why no one takes you seriously. When presented with empirical evidence, you just disappear into mythical Hootie-land where Tony Romo is a Hall of Famer and the Texans are the third best team in the AFC.

If Croyle throws for 300 yards and 4 TD's who the fuck in this league is offering him a $20 million contract?

A guy that's always injured who's arm is always set on kill?

Really?

Just Passin' By
12-13-2010, 02:02 AM
before I say anything...please show me a post where I said the Texans were the 3rd best team in the AFC...go on

next

you're telling me that, had Croyle had a monster game and showed some heart and led us to an inspirational victory...you're telling me he wouldn't have garnered some serious interest on the free agency market?

really?

really?

really?

really?

hahahaha

There's a big difference between "some interest" and $20 million, though.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-13-2010, 02:04 AM
before I say anything...please show me a post where I said the Texans were the 3rd best team in the AFC...go on

next

you're telling me that, had Croyle had a monster game and showed some heart and led us to an inspirational victory...you're telling me he wouldn't have garnered some serious interest on the free agency market?

really?

really?

really?

really?

hahahaha

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7005229&postcount=11

Granted, you also projected the current 8 win Ravens and 9 win Jets to finish no better than .500, so you're always right on that as well.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-13-2010, 02:06 AM
Derek Anderson signed a 7 million dollar contract for two years after going to Az as a quasi backup/starter.

Do you really think that Brodie Croyle would command more on the open market than Alexander, who at the very least has made a Pro Bowl and can stay upright, even if he pretty clearly sucks out loud.

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 02:11 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7005229&postcount=11

Granted, you also projected the current 8 win Ravens and 9 win Jets to finish no better than .500, so you're always right on that as well.

hmm

well I predicted the Jets would finish at 10-6 last week before the Pats game and I think I'll be right there...

that team is a pretender

The Ravens are better than I expected but because of their defense, not Joe Flacco...they won't go anywhere with Flacco

The Texans were a disappointment...they were a favorite of mine before the year but Schaub has regressed and Kubiak is a moron.

BUT

I'm pretty sure you were one of the guys telling me the Jets were a lock for their division and the Pats were too flawed to compete...

because I was laughing my ass off before the season when the betting odds came out and had the Jets as the division favorite...stating the Pats (with odds) was like stealing money future bet wise...

that's a real thread on here and I'm sure being the search guru you are you could find it...but I'm very lazy about that kind of stuff

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 02:12 AM
There's a big difference between "some interest" and $20 million, though.

I'm sorry...

if Croyle lit it up and the Chiefs won...it would have basically locked up the 3 seed for us...

people would have noticed...

He could have VERY EASILY signed on for a 5 year, $30M contract with $10-11M guaranteed...

VERY EASILY

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 02:15 AM
you know...

I'm probably wrong here...

it looks like the going rate for potential is about 2 years and 10M or so...

still

that's going to look like a ton compared to what he's going to get now...I wouldn't even be surprised if he was out of the NFL next year...like I said...his best chance is to pray we resign him now

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-13-2010, 02:18 AM
hmm

well I predicted the Jets would finish at 10-6 last week before the Pats game and I think I'll be right there...

that team is a pretender

The Ravens are better than I expected but because of their defense, not Joe Flacco...they won't go anywhere with Flacco

The Texans were a disappointment...they were a favorite of mine before the year but Schaub has regressed and Kubiak is a moron.

BUT

I'm pretty sure you were one of the guys telling me the Jets were a lock for their division and the Pats were too flawed to compete...

because I was laughing my ass off before the season when the betting odds came out and had the Jets as the division favorite...stating the Pats (with odds) was like stealing money future bet wise...

that's a real thread on here and I'm sure being the search guru you are you could find it...but I'm very lazy about that kind of stuff

No, you made the very same (bullshit) claim about this after MNF this week, in which, I posted a quote about what I said about the Jets and their offseason moves, after you (of course) made up a load of shit about me praising their acquisitions, when I actually said the exact opposite.

But hey, who needs facts when you can just score some Adderall and make shit up, eh?

Rausch
12-13-2010, 02:19 AM
you know...

I'm probably wrong here...

Good stuff, that...

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 02:39 AM
No, you made the very same (bullshit) claim about this after MNF this week, in which, I posted a quote about what I said about the Jets and their offseason moves, after you (of course) made up a load of shit about me praising their acquisitions, when I actually said the exact opposite.

But hey, who needs facts when you can just score some Adderall and make shit up, eh?

I'm going to give myself one thing to do this week and it's going to be find that thread...

Short Leash Hootie
12-13-2010, 02:39 AM
Good stuff, that...

at least I can admit it

Rausch
12-13-2010, 02:51 AM
at least I can admit it

There's always that...

J Diddy
12-13-2010, 03:45 AM
So I take it nobodys none too happy with bro and ten....?



bro and ten (0-10)

fuck you guys that was genius.

Rausch
12-13-2010, 03:53 AM
bro and ten (0-10)

**** you guys that was genius.

Eh, we're all still a little butthurt...

J Diddy
12-13-2010, 04:08 AM
Eh, we're all still a little butthurt...

lol, you weren't one of the disillusioned who thought we'd win this game were ya?

After last weeks squeaker, being away against a team that dumped a big game to the raiders, starting qb out, I pretty much gave us a 30 % or less chance of winning this game.

The funny thing is it looked like, from my feeble vantage point, that it was called like a preseason game.

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 08:02 AM
No, this is the same playcalling that saw Cassel completely shit the bed to the extent that after the first two games of the year, people wanted Croyle.

68 Yards in the first game against a SD team with little pass rush.

176 yards, two picks, and a 46.2 QB rating against a Cleveland team that was playing atrociously.

It's not a coincidence that your QB often dies when you play RRPP. #1, they only throw in predictable situations, which means that #2, the pass rushers can tee off against them.

And this is where the double standard is.

I agree with this. But how many people here blamed playcalling or the offensive line when the Chiefs barely beat Cleveland? Or when the Chiefs lost to Indy? 99% of the blame fell on Cassel's shoulders. That's the way it should be, but we can't dish out that kind of criticism to one QB and not the other. Croyle today was even worse than Cassel's worst game. While Cassel shit the bed against Cleveland, he also threw for 176 yards with 16 completions.

When we won, this whole board teed off on Cassel. Rightfully so. The Chiefs won in spite of Cassel. Today, we're talking about receivers, defense, offensive line, etc.... I get that our defense played much better against Cleveland than they played against Indy, but if we're going to blame the QB for a win against CLeveland, you have to blame the QB for a loss against San Diego. If these guys are the leaders of the team

donkhater
12-13-2010, 08:50 AM
I won't bash the actual play called as much as the personel.

I knew KC was in trouble when Thomas Jones was still getting carries early and the first pass was designed for Terrance Copper.

With Charles, Moeaki, Bowe and McCluster on your team, those should be the 5th and 6th options and they were FEATURED out of the gate.

Utter fail.

HemiEd
12-13-2010, 09:07 AM
You'd think it was obvious, except that there are still people blaming playcalling and I have neg reps that say I'm an idiot for having the audacity to not blame Croyle's performance on the offensive line.

The play calling did suck ass, and did not give the Chiefs a chance to win.

On the first series, I said in the game thread, they had the handcuffs on Brodie. Just like they did Cassel last year.

It put them behind, then the San Diego defense was able predict the Chiefs offense.

San Diego knew what they had to defend, there was no surprise and they crushed the plays, they didn't just stop them, they crushed them.

Brodie was clearly rusty, nervous, and sucked ass, as did the rest of the team.

HemiEd
12-13-2010, 09:09 AM
There are a lot of factors at work here. Croyle was rusty, nervous and overthrowing. That being said the O lines performance today was and obamination. You don't need to look any further than our offensive yardage total to see that. Lastly as much as you don't want it being said the play calling was predictable as hell. They were loading the box to stop the run and you would think they would call some play action to get Brodie going but Nooooooooooo, we get the predictable runs until we must pass scenario over and over. It's was a problem.

I should have read one more post, we saw the same thing, exactly.

Chief3188
12-13-2010, 09:22 AM
This was a performance reminiscent of Cassel after he had 2 seasons worth of starts in and a couple of years on Croyle in age but yet Cassel gets a pass but Croyle only gets 1 shot with this team in fans eyes with the Oline crumbling around him the way it looked last season, WR's dropping catchable balls and ultra conservative playing not to win playcalling?

Chiefnj2
12-13-2010, 09:23 AM
This was a performance reminiscent of Cassel after he had 2 seasons worth of starts in and a couple of years on Croyle in age but yet Cassel gets a pass but Croyle only gets 1 shot with this team in fans eyes with the Oline crumbling around him the way it looked last season, WR's dropping catchable balls and ultra conservative playing not to win playcalling?

Yeah, Cassel gets a pass. That's what happens on the Planet. Everyone loves Cassel and gives him free passes all the time.

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 09:28 AM
The play calling did suck ass, and did not give the Chiefs a chance to win.

On the first series, I said in the game thread, they had the handcuffs on Brodie. Just like they did Cassel last year.

It put them behind, then the San Diego defense was able predict the Chiefs offense.

San Diego knew what they had to defend, there was no surprise and they crushed the plays, they didn't just stop them, they crushed them.

Brodie was clearly rusty, nervous, and sucked ass, as did the rest of the team.

That's simply untrue. True, weis didn't use gimmicks. And I despised the playcalling on the first series. But the idea that croyle was handcuffed is beyond ridiculous. In the first half, 4 of the 5 drives were stalled because we gave croyle the opportunity to throw downfield and he failed. The pass protection was okay in the first half but definitely workable. And aside from the copper screen pass, our short passes were brodie dumping the ball off as he has done his whole career. Its not like the checkdown was the play design.

Croyle played better in the 2nd half but by then, our offense gave up. That's when the protection really broke down. inexcusable, but first half failures were not on the o-line or the playcalling. Brodie just did not execute on makeable plays. Yes, I think it was rust, but let's call a spade a spade.

jd1020
12-13-2010, 09:39 AM
That's simply untrue. True, weis didn't use gimmicks. And I despised the playcalling on the first series. But the idea that croyle was handcuffed is beyond ridiculous. In the first half, 4 of the 5 drives were stalled because we gave croyle the opportunity to throw downfield and he failed. The pass protection was okay in the first half but definitely workable. And aside from the copper screen pass, our short passes were brodie dumping the ball off as he has done his whole career. Its not like the checkdown was the play design.

Croyle played better in the 2nd half but by then, our offense gave up. That's when the protection really broke down. inexcusable, but first half failures were not on the o-line or the playcalling. Brodie just did not execute on makeable plays. Yes, I think it was rust, but let's call a spade a spade.

17 passes in 31-0 loss... GTFO! Your idiocy is contagious.

Chiefnj2
12-13-2010, 09:44 AM
17 passes in 31-0 loss... GTFO! Your idiocy is contagious.

When you don't convert, that's what happens; fewer pass attempts.

HemiEd
12-13-2010, 09:45 AM
That's simply untrue. True, weis didn't use gimmicks. And I despised the playcalling on the first series. But the idea that croyle was handcuffed is beyond ridiculous. In the first half, 4 of the 5 drives were stalled because we gave croyle the opportunity to throw downfield and he failed. The pass protection was okay in the first half but definitely workable. And aside from the copper screen pass, our short passes were brodie dumping the ball off as he has done his whole career. Its not like the checkdown was the play design.

Croyle played better in the 2nd half but by then, our offense gave up. That's when the protection really broke down. inexcusable, but first half failures were not on the o-line or the playcalling. Brodie just did not execute on makeable plays. Yes, I think it was rust, but let's call a spade a spade.

I am not sure you even watched the game. You missed the tight end drop, as you admitted earlier in this thread.

The first series was key, very key. The Chiefs won the toss, they needed to do something, but no, do exactly what the Chargers expected. The Chargers jumped all over it, stuffed the conservative calls, and came right down and scored, now you are behind.

Why not do something like the Eagles did last night to start the game? Did you see that? The Eagles were playing on the road, in front of hostile crowd, similar to the Chiefs.

Chief Henry
12-13-2010, 09:48 AM
The way we sucked in Sundays game, we should be very thankful the suckage didn't rub off on to the plane and the pilots !!! I didn't expect us to win, but I didn't think we would suck in conceivable way. If Carl was still in the Captains Chair I would use this :banghead:

jd1020
12-13-2010, 09:48 AM
When you don't convert, that's what happens; fewer pass attempts.

How many of the plays called for Croyle would have even gave Tom Brady a chance to convert? Croyle was completely handcuffed and it's because Haley and Weis dont have as much faith in Croyle as they would lead you to believe.

Detoxing
12-13-2010, 09:49 AM
The Playcalling was fucking terrible. R2P2 over and over again.

Brodie sucked.

What offensive line?

Flowers hasn't looked the same since that Oakland game.

Our Run D Was Terrible.

Our Pass rush was terrible.

That was one of the worst performances I've ever seen from this organization. That was one of the worst performances I've ever seen in organized football. This coaching staff packed it in before the game even began. This team packed it in and quit. They looked lethargic and unmotived. They were slow, they were weak. They were just downright awful

It doesn't matter what you want to blame it on. All facets of this team failed miserably. They should all be ashamed. especially the O-Line.....And The D-Line.

Chiefnj2
12-13-2010, 09:53 AM
How many of the plays called for Croyle would have even gave Tom Brady a chance to convert? Croyle was completely handcuffed and it's because Haley and Weis dont have as much faith in Croyle as they would lead you to believe.

It isn't a matter of faith in Croyle. Hint - the WR's aren't very good. Hint - the OL isn't as good as people think. There is a reason why Cassel was on a short leash for over half a year, and why there were so many 1 read and check down plays. And the reason wasn't 100% Cassel.

jd1020
12-13-2010, 09:56 AM
It isn't a matter of faith in Croyle. Hint - the WR's aren't very good. Hint - the OL isn't as good as people think. There is a reason why Cassel was on a short leash for over half a year, and why there were so many 1 read and check down plays. And the reason wasn't 100% Cassel.

Way to completely dodge the question.

Bane
12-13-2010, 09:57 AM
"Stop blaming the play calling"

Or what?**** you and the play calling.The way that game was called is complete bullshit,and absolutely without a doubt one of the worst game plans I have ever witnessed in my life.
Eat shit and die you goddamn ****tard.

LaChapelle
12-13-2010, 10:57 AM
If your backup QB can't come off the bench and lead a respectable showing
what good is he
too bad there is a shortage of washed up average starters out there

Chiefnj2
12-13-2010, 11:06 AM
If your backup QB can't come off the bench and lead a respectable showing
what good is he
too bad there is a shortage of washed up average starters out there

Backups are always fan favorites in KC.

This past preseason everyone was clamoring about how good Flynn was in Green Bay. Look how things turned out yesterday for him.

Saul Good
12-13-2010, 11:28 AM
17 passes in 31-0 loss... GTFO! Your idiocy is contagious.
When you only get 3 plays per drive, that's what happens. I wish we would have thrown twice as many passes. I also wish we would have run the ball twice as many times. It would have been great if we had 80 offensive plays, but it's hard tp throw a bunch of passes when youe D is on the field.

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 12:02 PM
17 passes in 31-0 loss... GTFO! Your idiocy is contagious.

The chiefs killed 4 of the 5 first half drives through passes, not runs. I'm glad you continue to dance around this point.

When you call 2 pass plays in a 3-down sequence and few of those are screens or quick passes, that is NOT handcuffing. Did I mention that happened 4 out of the 5 first half drives?

Did I mention the chiefs passed twice on a 3-down sequence in 4 of the 5 drive killers?

Maybe if I say it a 4th time it will finally register.

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 12:06 PM
I am not sure you even watched the game. You missed the tight end drop, as you admitted earlier in this thread.

The first series was key, very key. The Chiefs won the toss, they needed to do something, but no, do exactly what the Chargers expected. The Chargers jumped all over it, stuffed the conservative calls, and came right down and scored, now you are behind.

Why not do something like the Eagles did last night to start the game? Did you see that? The Eagles were playing on the road, in front of hostile crowd, similar to the Chiefs.

That third down was a miserable playcall. However, the next 4 drives, they opened the offense up significantly. I keep hearing about R2P2, but the fact is the chiefs failed on those 4 drives bc of a R1P3.

Just Passin' By
12-13-2010, 01:18 PM
I am not sure you even watched the game. You missed the tight end drop, as you admitted earlier in this thread.

The first series was key, very key. The Chiefs won the toss, they needed to do something, but no, do exactly what the Chargers expected. The Chargers jumped all over it, stuffed the conservative calls, and came right down and scored, now you are behind.

Why not do something like the Eagles did last night to start the game? Did you see that? The Eagles were playing on the road, in front of hostile crowd, similar to the Chiefs.

The Eagles have Michael Vick throwing to Desean Jackson and company. The Chiefs had Brodie Croyle throwing to Dwayne Bowe and company.

There's no similarity to the Chiefs.

HemiEd
12-13-2010, 02:12 PM
That third down was a miserable playcall. However, the next 4 drives, they opened the offense up significantly. I keep hearing about R2P2, but the fact is the chiefs failed on those 4 drives bc of a R1P3.

Well we are in agreement on the first drive, on how it went down. My main problem is what it did to the team's chances on future drives, not just that it failed.

The second drive, the only reason they tried two passes, was because Thomas Jones got stuffed for -1 yard on 1st down.

Then on second down and 114, they really opened it up for a four yard pass to Jamaal Charles, so now it is third and 7. Do you not think that play was called by the Coaching staff?
Guess what is coming now?
No time for Croyle due to the Ole' offensive line, and he made a desperation pass to Copper.

The third drive, still only down by 7, as SD had to punt.

Offensive line total fail, total whiff.
Brodie sacked for a 12 yard loss. Now what play would you call on second and 22? Hmmm, how about a JC run for 4 yards?
3rd and 18, short completion to Moeaki for 8 yards,
punt again.


Okay, now down by 14, time to really open it up! (this will be the best drive and highlight of the day)
4th drive
JC for 10 yards 1st down!
JC for 6 yards
Moeaki catch for 5 yards 1st down!
JC for 2 yards
Pass to Bowe dropped
Pass to Bowe for 3 yards
Punt

21 to nothing. Game over, they have to be totally one dimensional now, thanks for playing.

I fail to see where the game was opened up. At that time Croyle was 5 for 7, for 11 yards. These short passes are not his strength as all of us know, but then again, Weiss said he was just getting aqauinted with Croyle on Wednesday.
They had rushed 10 times for 30 yards.

That is some pretty damning evidence on the whole Offense, the game plan and play calling in my opinion.

Pestilence
12-13-2010, 02:16 PM
These short passes are not his strength as all of us know, but then again, Weiss said he was just getting aqauinted with Croyle on Wednesday.


This is the part that I don't get. Weis should know what he has in every one of his QBs. He should know what kind of gameplan he needs to have with each one.

How are you just getting familiar with Croyle on Wednesday? He's been there since you got there dipshit.

FAX
12-13-2010, 02:26 PM
This is tired and old already.

If you say Croyle sucked you hate him.

If you point out that the entire team sucked it means you're making excuses for Croyle.

Bull$3it.

TEAM SUCK.

ALL SUCK.

COACHES SUCKED. Probably, the worst suck. I place most the blame on the coaching staff for allowing this performance...

I award this post 4 yeppers.

FAX

HemiEd
12-13-2010, 02:28 PM
This is the part that I don't get. Weis should know what he has in every one of his QBs. He should know what kind of gameplan he needs to have with each one.

How are you just getting familiar with Croyle on Wednesday? He's been there since you got there dipshit.

Yeah, when I read that article I was hoping it was a smokescreen, but obviously it wasn't. :banghead:

Seriously, when I saw that opening play by Michael Vick last night, it even pissed me off more. It was like salt in the wound.

Anybody, including Weiss that doesn't think Croyle can make that pass, hasn't been paying attention IMO. He is better with that pass than he is the bubble screen. If it misses, so what, at least it would have had some benefit.

Just Passin' By
12-13-2010, 02:58 PM
JFC, the bashing of the playcalling is absolutely retarded.

Opening drive vs. Broncos:

run/run/run/pass/pass


You people bitch when they pass, and you bitch when they run. Look, the team is not going to call every play exactly how you want them to. That does not mean that the playcalling is bad. The Chiefs are a running team, and they are going to call running plays.

acesn8s
12-13-2010, 03:39 PM
There are a lot of factors at work here. Croyle was rusty, nervous and overthrowing. That being said the O lines performance today was and obamination. You don't need to look any further than our offensive yardage total to see that. Lastly as much as you don't want it being said the play calling was predictable as hell. They were loading the box to stop the run and you would think they would call some play action to get Brodie going but Nooooooooooo, we get the predictable runs until we must pass scenario over and over. It's was a problem.Play action was called and Croyle couldn't sell it. He left the ball out in the open so that the defense on the field, the fans in the stands, and the fans watching on TV knew that Croyle was throwing the ball. The play calling wasn't predictable, Coyle was. Of course the line was going to suffer when the defense can figure out the play so quick.

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 03:51 PM
Well we are in agreement on the first drive, on how it went down. My main problem is what it did to the team's chances on future drives, not just that it failed.

The second drive, the only reason they tried two passes, was because Thomas Jones got stuffed for -1 yard on 1st down.

Then on second down and 114, they really opened it up for a four yard pass to Jamaal Charles, so now it is third and 7. Do you not think that play was called by the Coaching staff?
Guess what is coming now?
No time for Croyle due to the Ole' offensive line, and he made a desperation pass to Copper.
On the second series Croyle had a world of time. He checked down to Charles. You can see him look off a few options before dumping it off. This isn't anything new. Croyle had a reputation for being Captain Checkdown when he started for the Chiefs a while back. On third down, watch the play carefully. Bowe is wide the **** open on a crossing route and Croyle has a mile of clean pocket in front of him. All he has to do is step up in the pocket and throw the ball to Bowe. First down. This series is entirely on Croyle. They gave him two downfield plays with adequate enough protection and he didn't do anything with it.

The third drive, still only down by 7, as SD had to punt.

Offensive line total fail, total whiff.
Brodie sacked for a 12 yard loss. Now what play would you call on second and 22? Hmmm, how about a JC run for 4 yards?
3rd and 18, short completion to Moeaki for 8 yards,
punt again.
This series is on Richardson. Take a look at the left side of the field on that play. Chambers schools his defender and is wide open deep. Again, Croyle checks down for a short gain. Can't blame the QB on this series, but he missed the open guy.


Okay, now down by 14, time to really open it up! (this will be the best drive and highlight of the day)
4th drive
JC for 10 yards 1st down!
JC for 6 yards
Moeaki catch for 5 yards 1st down!
JC for 2 yards
Pass to Bowe dropped
Pass to Bowe for 3 yards
Punt

21 to nothing. Game over, they have to be totally one dimensional now, thanks for playing.
The pass to Bowe wasn't dropped--it was a pass where Richardson blew a block and Croyle misfired on a deep route. Can't blame him on that, but he should have spotted the blitzer on the right on the hot route. The receiver is wide open. On 3rd and 8, I don't know the intent. There are plenty of receivers running deep routes and plenty of time for the play to develop, which leads me to believe the route was not predetermined. Meanwhile, Chambers is wide open streaking on a sideline route.


Weis did not handcuff Brodie. He had a lot of opportunity to make plays. In some instances, our o-line blew the protection. In many instances, he had a clean pocket and made the wrong decision. And the main reason he had so many passes short of the chains is not because of a conservative offense. It's because he checked down to the easy target. We have to be careful about confusing scheme-related short passes and checkdowns.

I thought the gameplan was a hell of a lot more aggressive in the passing game than it's ever been. When Weis has Cassel run a 1-step drop quick pass or a screen pass, those are handcuffed passes. Not when the QB has options and intentionally throws short.

HemiEd
12-13-2010, 03:53 PM
JFC, the bashing of the playcalling is absolutely retarded.

Opening drive vs. Broncos:

run/run/run/pass/pass


You people bitch when they pass, and you bitch when they run. Look, the team is not going to call every play exactly how you want them to. That does not mean that the playcalling is bad. The Chiefs are a running team, and they are going to call running plays.

Ok, you are starting to be more clear about your problem, your a moran.

It was four rushes, and finally a pass out in the flat for minus one, thanks for playing though.

play by play (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=20101212024)

If you don't think those were all called upstairs, your and idiot.

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 03:53 PM
Play action was called and Croyle couldn't sell it. He left the ball out in the open so that the defense on the field, the fans in the stands, and the fans watching on TV knew that Croyle was throwing the ball. The play calling wasn't predictable, Coyle was. Of course the line was going to suffer when the defense can figure out the play so quick.

Not only does he not sell it. In a playaction, it's natural to expect pressure to come. He fakes the handoff and then falls back into a 5-7 step drop. Way too many steps for a QB to take to allow a play to develop. That's why you see so many QBs rollout on a playaction and if Brodie does that, he buys himself plenty of time. As soon as he plants hard into his drop, he's dead.

acesn8s
12-13-2010, 04:01 PM
Let me be clear: I want this mother****er off my team.

PERIOD.

When you need him most he folds, ****s up, bobbles passes, and otherwise sucks.

DO NOT WANT...You are talking about Croyle, right?

HemiEd
12-13-2010, 04:03 PM
On the second series Croyle had a world of time. He checked down to Charles. You can see him look off a few options before dumping it off. This isn't anything new. Croyle had a reputation for being Captain Checkdown when he started for the Chiefs a while back. On third down, watch the play carefully. Bowe is wide the **** open on a crossing route and Croyle has a mile of clean pocket in front of him. All he has to do is step up in the pocket and throw the ball to Bowe. First down. This series is entirely on Croyle. They gave him two downfield plays with adequate enough protection and he didn't do anything with it.


This series is on Richardson. Take a look at the left side of the field on that play. Chambers schools his defender and is wide open deep. Again, Croyle checks down for a short gain. Can't blame the QB on this series, but he missed the open guy.



The pass to Bowe wasn't dropped--it was a pass where Richardson blew a block and Croyle misfired on a deep route. Can't blame him on that, but he should have spotted the blitzer on the right on the hot route. The receiver is wide open. On 3rd and 8, I don't know the intent. There are plenty of receivers running deep routes and plenty of time for the play to develop, which leads me to believe the route was not predetermined. Meanwhile, Chambers is wide open streaking on a sideline route.


Weis did not handcuff Brodie. He had a lot of opportunity to make plays. In some instances, our o-line blew the protection. In many instances, he had a clean pocket and made the wrong decision. And the main reason he had so many passes short of the chains is not because of a conservative offense. It's because he checked down to the easy target. We have to be careful about confusing scheme-related short passes and checkdowns.

I thought the gameplan was a hell of a lot more aggressive in the passing game than it's ever been. When Weis has Cassel run a 1-step drop quick pass or a screen pass, those are handcuffed passes. Not when the QB has options and intentionally throws short.

So do you think "Captain Checkdown" is damaged goods from the Herm era?

I did find it encouraging, to see his helmet actually move, when looking for an open receiver.

I just assumed he was being told to "no matter what" don't turn the ball over (same as Herm), so he was playing safe as instructed.

We will just have to disagree on the aggressive game plan thought though, to me it was ultra conservative, until there was no choice.

I was too pissed after the game to save the DVR of it.

HemiEd
12-13-2010, 04:06 PM
You are talking about Croyle, right?

You might want to go back and read the post. ;)

chiefzilla1501
12-13-2010, 04:08 PM
So do you think "Captain Checkdown" is damaged goods from the Herm era?

I did find it encouraging, to see his helmet actually move, when looking for an open receiver.

I just assumed he was being told to "no matter what" don't turn the ball over (same as Herm), so he was playing safe as instructed.

We will just have to disagree on the aggressive game plan thought though, to me it was ultra conservative, until there was no choice.

I was too pissed after the game to save the DVR of it.

I don't know if he's damaged goods. I wouldn't be surprised if that was something that was hammered into his head by Curl/Herm (wasn't there a clip where Curl demanded his QBs learn to check down?) The fact that his helmet moved leads me to believe that he was scanning the field and decided on the checkdown. That means the problem wasn't the playcalling, but the QB that was afraid to throw it downfield or perhaps wasn't smart enough to see the right read in his scan.

He's an inexperienced QB that looked like one. Like I said in another thread, I thought he looked much better as the game went on and in fairness, those are habits he might get rid of with experience. I don't think this game necessarily says he flat-out sucks, but for the first half, he sucked and that's on him, not the playcalling or offensive line.

acesn8s
12-13-2010, 04:37 PM
how many times was croyle sacked today!? how many times has cassel been sacked this year?Croyle was sacked 4 times. Cassel has taken 17 sacks this year.

acesn8s
12-13-2010, 04:46 PM
Well, I think the team walked in with a defeated attitude. They didn't have confidence in Croyle and that's a reflection of coaching--they can't make the team feel like they have no chance to win just b/c the backup's in.

I do wonder if the Chiefs had a chance with Cassel. I think the gameplan would have been more open, he would have taken better advantage of his pocket, and the defense would have been more respectful of the pass. That's all guesswork, though. QUite possible Cassel lays a big gooseegg against SD.I didn't expect to win before Cassel was out, but I didn't expect them to fail at every 3rd down conversion attempt either.

acesn8s
12-13-2010, 05:05 PM
Here is the point I've done a very poor job of getting across: unless I've missed something Croyle threw the least amount of passes this week of any starting QB and lost by the BIGGEST margin.

I would have felt better about Croyle being 7 of 30 than 7 of 17.

I'm not going to argue the extra passing attempts would make him more comfortable, more in the game, or more productive. Not at all.

ONLY THAT WE WERE TRYING TO WIN.

It would mean that on 3rd and 12 we tried to get 12. Or down by 21 we actually WANTED to catch up and cared that time was running out...Croyle would have gotten more attempts if they would have gotten more first downs. Croyle rushed into checkdowns before WRs made their breaks or held on to the ball until they made their breaks and the defense adjusted. Settling for the wide open guy underneath is what the defense wanted and Croyle gave it to them.

acesn8s
12-13-2010, 05:16 PM
not even?

If Croyle rallied the team and led them to a win and posted a line of something like...

21-30 for 250 and 2 TD's...

he could've drawn, easily, a starting QB contract from a number of teams

instead his career went right down the drain

that was his last chance

I feel bad for the guyWho? Who is so bad that they would have taken Croyle, even with those stats, and given up on every other QB in the league and pass on all QBs coming out of college?

You need to lay off the pipe cause you are high.

or stupid.

acesn8s
12-13-2010, 05:29 PM
absolutely

he was a fairly high draft pick with a ton of talent

this was basically a playoff clinching game for us...he had the chance to be in the spotlight and earn his pay and set up his family for generations

if he had a monster game, or even an average game, or any sort of game where he flashed some of that "potential"...

there would have been a number of teams that would have taken a chance on him

or did you already forget about San Diego, Seattle and Charlie Whitehurst?

you did, didn't you?By your logic, John Beck is one good game away from becoming a starter in this league?

acesn8s
12-13-2010, 05:32 PM
Third ****ing round...




You do realize he had A WHOLE ****ING SEASON to do the same thing before, right?

No GM worth a **** is going to make his mind up based on 17 passes in one game...May Croyle become a Raider next year.

acesn8s
12-13-2010, 05:57 PM
I am not sure you even watched the game. You missed the tight end drop, as you admitted earlier in this thread.

The first series was key, very key. The Chiefs won the toss, they needed to do something, but no, do exactly what the Chargers expected. The Chargers jumped all over it, stuffed the conservative calls, and came right down and scored, now you are behind.

Why not do something like the Eagles did last night to start the game? Did you see that? The Eagles were playing on the road, in front of hostile crowd, similar to the Chiefs.The only tight end drop that I saw wasn't even thrown by Croyle. It was thrown by Palko.

If there is another give me the time in the game and I will go back and look.

acesn8s
12-13-2010, 06:04 PM
"Stop blaming the play calling"

Or what?

Or look like dumbass.


Oops. Too late.

**** you and the play calling.The way that game was called is complete bullshit,and absolutely without a doubt one of the worst game plans I have ever witnessed in my life.
Eat shit and die you goddamn ****tard.

Really? You wish for my death?

tarheel23
12-13-2010, 06:26 PM
Croyle sucks, Cassel sucks. Guess what we don't have a QB. Croyle failed to put points on the board and Cassel only put 10 on Denver at home.

acesn8s
12-13-2010, 06:27 PM
Well we are in agreement on the first drive, on how it went down. My main problem is what it did to the team's chances on future drives, not just that it failed.

The second drive, the only reason they tried two passes, was because Thomas Jones got stuffed for -1 yard on 1st down.

Then on second down and 114, they really opened it up for a four yard pass to Jamaal Charles, so now it is third and 7. Do you not think that play was called by the Coaching staff?
Guess what is coming now?
No time for Croyle due to the Ole' offensive line, and he made a desperation pass to Copper.
The 2nd down play was not designed for a short pass. DMC hadn't even made his break when Croyle threw to Charles. If it was designed to go to Charles DMC would have been in a position to block his defender, Had Croyle waited for the play to develop DMC had beat his man and had room to run.
The third drive, still only down by 7, as SD had to punt.

Offensive line total fail, total whiff.
Brodie sacked for a 12 yard loss. Now what play would you call on second and 22? Hmmm, how about a JC run for 4 yards?
3rd and 18, short completion to Moeaki for 8 yards,
punt again.

Had Croyle sold the play fake he may have bought himself enough time to finish his roll out and make an attempt.

As for the 3rd and 18 play, there are not many designed plays for that distance but an attempt down field would have been nice. You know, since Croyle has such a strong arm and all.
Okay, now down by 14, time to really open it up! (this will be the best drive and highlight of the day)
4th drive
JC for 10 yards 1st down!
JC for 6 yards
Moeaki catch for 5 yards 1st down!
JC for 2 yards
Pass to Bowe dropped
Pass to Bowe for 3 yards
Punt
Bowe did not drop that pass. It was thrown out of bounds and out of reach of Bowe for him to bring it in cleanly. The second Bowe pass was an outlet pass designed to take advantage of the vacated middle field, however, the Chargers did not vacate/Bowe didn't find the hole and that pass should have gone somewhere else. Maybe downfield, since Croyle has such a strong arm and all.
21 to nothing. Game over, they have to be totally one dimensional now, thanks for playing.

I fail to see where the game was opened up. At that time Croyle was 5 for 7, for 11 yards. These short passes are not his strength as all of us know, but then again, Weiss said he was just getting aqauinted with Croyle on Wednesday.
They had rushed 10 times for 30 yards.

That is some pretty damning evidence on the whole Offense, the game plan and play calling in my opinion.Croyle has always chose to throw the check down passes. I don't know if he is that afraid of Haley yelling at him for taking a chance or what but he did the same thing under Herm.