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RedThat
12-19-2010, 02:44 PM
The kid deserves some respect.

After todays game Im starting to believe in the guy as our quarterback. He just displayed a true testament of toughness out there and leadership.

To some people I understand its about him leading us to the playoffs and winning the superbowl in order for them to be satisfied...yada yada yada

Im not going to go by that mindset at all. I look at this game and I see the way he played and it tells me a lot about his character. We should be proud. We got a pretty good quarterback folks. That 2nd round pick we gave up was well worth it.

I think composure, toughness, and leadership are key attributes for a quarterback. Cassel has those qualities and I also love the fact that he plays with passion too.

However, I believe the number one attribute as a quarterback is the ability to respond under pressure. So now I don't want to jump the gun here and say he has that capability, but I will say, after coming back from an appendectomy and performing the way he did, is a great sign and a step in the direction towards performing well under pressure. So far so good Matt. Keep up the good work:thumb: you sure as heck got my support.

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 02:45 PM
Who even gives a shit. Lets just keep winning.

mnchiefsguy
12-19-2010, 02:45 PM
Cassel showed grit, leadership, and toughness today. He played far better than Ben R. did when he came back from surgery. Cassel was definitely a big difference today, the guys responded to him.

siberian khatru
12-19-2010, 02:46 PM
Even after a week off, he continues to do the positive things he wasn't doing the first half of the year, and in much more consistent fashion.

petegz28
12-19-2010, 02:46 PM
I will admit that I am of a different opinion of him over the last few weeks than I was the first few. He looks like he is starting to "get it". Threw his 1st pic in forever today and took his first sack that was HIS fault today in a long time as well. Last year that spelled a loss. Today he played through it, played through some adversity and injury and led his team to a must win on the road.

tmax63
12-19-2010, 02:47 PM
Taking that hit in the 2nd qtr from Long and not even wincing/flinching showed me alot today. I think it showed more to his teammates than us fans as well.

Douche Baggins
12-19-2010, 02:47 PM
No, it isn't.

He had an average game against a bad defense.

You people really need to have higher standards.

It was a gutty, winning peformance, but he has a ways to go before he proves he's worthy of being called a franchise QB. He has to play well the next three weeks in a row, or there will be questions.

rockymtnchief
12-19-2010, 02:47 PM
I ate mine a few weeks ago because of his play.

Today I give him even more respect for playing, getting knocked on his ass hard, and popping back up. He's got grit.

LaChapelle
12-19-2010, 02:47 PM
KEEP FUCKING DOUBTING THE FUCKING CASSEL DOUBTERS!!!!!!11

Old Dog
12-19-2010, 02:48 PM
Medium well please.
I know that I'm one of the only ones that didn't think he was the answer at QB though.

petegz28
12-19-2010, 02:48 PM
No, it isn't.

He had an average game against a bad defense.

You people really need to have higher standards.

It was a gutty, winning peformance, but he has a ways to go before he proves he's worthy of being called a franchise QB. He has to play well the next three weeks in a row, or there will be questions.

S
T
F
U
!

Fucking hater

Pants
12-19-2010, 02:48 PM
I'm here to eat my crow, but he can still improve. I now think that winning a playoff game with Matt as our QB is possible.

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2010, 02:48 PM
He has to win in the playoffs. Bottom line. I want wins in January and February. This good in the regular season really don't mean shit when it comes down to it. Cassel has played the last couple of months with about everything we want in a franchise QB but it comes down to winning when it counts.

kstater
12-19-2010, 02:49 PM
Nope. Not gonna believe until he bounces one off the jumbotron for a TD completion.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 02:49 PM
He has to play well the next three weeks in a row, or there will be questions.

http://i56.tinypic.com/1zuixe.jpg

InChiefsHell
12-19-2010, 02:49 PM
No, it isn't.

He had an average game against a bad defense.

You people really need to have higher standards.

It was a gutty, winning peformance, but he has a ways to go before he proves he's worthy of being called a franchise QB. He has to play well the next three weeks in a row, or there will be questions.

Fuck you. That is all. Maybe it's the Rum talking but...

...FUCK YOU.

-King-
12-19-2010, 02:49 PM
Beginning of the season I hated him. I think its time that I eat crow now.

http://westofthefive.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/eat-crow.jpg Bon Appetit

JASONSAUTO
12-19-2010, 02:49 PM
Really showed some fire out there today. Pissed when player fucked up, excited about good plays , and fought through the pain.
Posted via Mobile Device

petegz28
12-19-2010, 02:49 PM
I'm here to eat my crow, but he can still improve. I now think that winning a playoff game with Matt as our QB is possible.

It would be nice to seem him with a group of good WR's and a little better line.

Bane
12-19-2010, 02:49 PM
I fully recognize Matt Cassel as my starting QB and I apologize for giving him so much shit before.Good job Matt Cassel.

Edit. He also has showed that he is one tough SOB.

Rain Man
12-19-2010, 02:50 PM
Cassel visibly turned a corner a few weeks ago. It's amazing how fast he transformed.

keg in kc
12-19-2010, 02:50 PM
I'm still not convinced he's the answer, but he's done more this year than I expected. We appear to at least have a game manager in him, if nothing else.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 02:50 PM
He has to win in the playoffs. Bottom line.

Just Shut up....Jesus....Quit while your ahead....Eat your crow and quietly move on...

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 02:51 PM
Nope. Not gonna believe until he bounces one off the jumbotron for a TD completion.

ROFLROFLROFL

LaChapelle
12-19-2010, 02:52 PM
There is no Cassel blowing when it's Tits week

milkman
12-19-2010, 02:52 PM
This is my response to this thread.

I know some people won't recognize it, and I have been, up until his last couple of games, one of his harshest critics, but I think we saw today that this is Cassel's team.

They responded to the heart he showed today.

RedThat
12-19-2010, 02:52 PM
I'm still not convinced he's the answer, but he's done more this year than I expected. We appear to at least have a game manager in him, if nothing else.

23 TD's, 5 picks. A 90 someodd qb rating. Leading your team to victory after coming back from appendix surgery, what will it take for you?

Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 02:52 PM
The kid deserves some respect.

After todays game Im starting to believe in the guy as our quarterback. He just displayed a true testament of toughness out there and leadership.

To some people I understand its about him leading us to the playoffs and winning the superbowl in order for them to be satisfied...yada yada yada

Im not going to go by that mindset at all. I look at this game and I see the way he played and it tells me a lot about his character. We should be proud. We got a pretty good quarterback folks. That 2nd round pick we gave up was well worth it.

I think composure, toughness, and leadership are key attributes for a quarterback. Cassel has those qualities and I also love the fact that he plays with passion too.

However, I believe the number one attribute as a quarterback is the ability to respond under pressure. So now I don't want to jump the gun here and say he has that capability, but I will say, after coming back from an appendectomy and performing the way he did, is a great sign and a step in the direction towards performing well under pressure. So far so good Matt. Keep up the good work:thumb: you sure as heck got my support.

I'll take 'what doubters WEREN'T doubting' for $1000, Alex.

JASONSAUTO
12-19-2010, 02:54 PM
This is my response to this thread.

Spot on
Posted via Mobile Device

Wallcrawler
12-19-2010, 02:54 PM
That run he took off on, took the hit and popped up with the fist-throw and scream was pretty sweet. He's becoming a leader on the field, for certain.

How can you not get behind a guy like that.

The Bad Guy
12-19-2010, 02:54 PM
No, it isn't.

He had an average game against a bad defense.

You people really need to have higher standards.

It was a gutty, winning peformance, but he has a ways to go before he proves he's worthy of being called a franchise QB. He has to play well the next three weeks in a row, or there will be questions.

This mantra that he has to be a "franchise QB" in order to be successful here is a steaming pile of shit that people keep heaping on in order to continue to try to be "right" about him.

He's never going to be the level of Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ben. What he is going to be is someone that we can win games with and will be an asset to this offense.

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 02:54 PM
23 TD's, 5 picks. A 90 someodd qb rating. Leading your team to victory after coming back from appendix surgery, what will it take for you?

He needs to win an NFL game while transcribing TommyKat posts on Chiefs Planet so normal people can understand them.

Micjones
12-19-2010, 02:54 PM
I really hate the term "franchise QB". There are about 7 of them across the NFL. That's 1 for every 4 teams in the league.

24 Passing TD's, 5 INT's this season.
If you don't like the guy...say that. Make sure everyone knows it's personal and has nothing to do with the way he performs on the field. To keep pretending he hasn't done enough for you to be content is bullshit.

Red Brooklyn
12-19-2010, 02:55 PM
I'll take 'what doubters WEREN'T doubting' for $1000, Alex.
Baby Lee, continuing to set standards on interneting.

The Bad Guy
12-19-2010, 02:55 PM
That run he took off on, took the hit and popped up with the fist-throw and scream was pretty sweet. He's becoming a leader on the field, for certain.

How can you not get behind a guy like that.

Because of the overwhelming need for a lot on here to try to be "right".

dirk digler
12-19-2010, 02:55 PM
This is my response to this thread.

Agree with your response. Cassel has earned my respect with the way he gutted it out today

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 02:55 PM
Because of the overwhelming need for a lot on here to try to be "right".

Or miserable.

Douche Baggins
12-19-2010, 02:55 PM
This mantra that he has to be a "franchise QB" in order to be successful here is a steaming pile of shit that people keep heaping on in order to continue to try to be "right" about him.

He's never going to be the level of Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ben. What he is going to be is someone that we can win games with and will be an asset to this offense.

Depends your definition of a franchise QB.

My definition is someone you can win a SB with. There are several of those guys in the league, including guys like Rodgers, Ryan, etc.

I want a QB at that level, at the least. Doesn't have to be Elway or Manning.

milkman
12-19-2010, 02:56 PM
I really hate the term "franchise QB". There are about 7 of them across the NFL.

24 Passing TD's, 5 INT's this season.
If you don't like the guy...say that. Make sure everyone knows it's personal and has nothing to do with the way he performs on the field. To keep pretending he hasn't done enough for you to be content is bullshit.

I'll be honest, the thing that helped me get behind him.

He grew facial hair.

The Bad Guy
12-19-2010, 02:56 PM
He has to win in the playoffs. Bottom line. I want wins in January and February. This good in the regular season really don't mean shit when it comes down to it. Cassel has played the last couple of months with about everything we want in a franchise QB but it comes down to winning when it counts.

And if he doesn't this year, we will get numerous posts from you about how you were right and how he sucks.

The fact this team is even looking at the playoffs in year 2 of a massive rebuild is impressive as hell.

Micjones
12-19-2010, 02:57 PM
Depends your definition of a franchise QB.

My definition is someone you can win a SB with. There are several of those guys in the league, including guys like Rodgers, Ryan, etc.

Hilarious for two reasons.
1. He's outplayed BOTH of them this season.
2. Neither of them have ever won a Superbowl.

beer bacon
12-19-2010, 02:57 PM
No, it isn't.

He had an average game against a bad defense.

You people really need to have higher standards.

It was a gutty, winning peformance, but he has a ways to go before he proves he's worthy of being called a franchise QB. He has to play well the next three weeks in a row, or there will be questions.

2,700 passing yards, 24 TDs, and 5 INTs. He has played well this season, and it is silly to think otherwise. Also, today he had would have four or five more completions and a bunch more yards if our receivers didn't have the dropsies. He played very well. He showed good touch and accuracy, and he also showed good poise in the pocket and scrambling ability. Just admit he did a fine job.

The Bad Guy
12-19-2010, 02:57 PM
Depends your definition of a franchise QB.

My definition is someone you can win a SB with. There are several of those guys in the league, including guys like Rodgers, Ryan, etc.

I want a QB at that level, at the least. Doesn't have to be Elway or Manning.

Then your definition of a franchise QB extends to about half of the QBs in the NFL.

milkman
12-19-2010, 02:57 PM
Depends your definition of a franchise QB.

My definition is someone you can win a SB with. There are several of those guys in the league, including guys like Rodgers, Ryan, etc.

I want a QB at that level, at the least. Doesn't have to be Elway or Manning.

So, Eli Manning is a franchise QB?

Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were?

keg in kc
12-19-2010, 02:57 PM
23 TD's, 5 picks. A 90 someodd qb rating. Leading your team to victory after coming back from appendix surgery, what will it take for you?The same thing it will take for the entire team to convince me they've really turned around: meaningful games against good competition.

It's not his/their fault they've played the schedule that they have - they don't have any control over who lines up against them - but the fact remains that I have to see them do it against quality teams before I'm really convinced. I'm just not going to be sold before that point.

Maybe we'll see that in January. Maybe we'll see it in 2011. We're not going to see it in December. And that's not his fault or the team's fault, obviously.

DenverDanChiefsFan
12-19-2010, 02:57 PM
He has to win in the playoffs. Bottom line. I want wins in January and February. This good in the regular season really don't mean shit when it comes down to it. Cassel has played the last couple of months with about everything we want in a franchise QB but it comes down to winning when it counts.This game did count. All the games count. Without regular season wins you don't get to play in January and February. :shake:

RedThat
12-19-2010, 02:57 PM
Depends your definition of a franchise QB.

My definition is someone you can win a SB with. There are several of those guys in the league, including guys like Rodgers, Ryan, etc.

I want a QB at that level, at the least. Doesn't have to be Elway or Manning.

Keep hoping because it sure as heck ain't gonna happen. Cassel is here and I don't anticipate the Chiefs getting rid of him anytime soon. that doesn't just go for you, that goes for all the Cassel haters.

Goldmember
12-19-2010, 02:59 PM
Who even gives a shit. Lets just keep winning.

I do. The guy has a ton of character. He'll probably never be one of the "elite" QBs of the league, nobody can question his grit and character and that counts a lot when you are the team's leader and can sometimes overcome athletic ability.

DenverDanChiefsFan
12-19-2010, 02:59 PM
The same thing it will take for the entire team to convince me they've really turned around: meaningful games against good competition.

It's not his/their fault they've played the schedule that they have - they don't have any control over who lines up against them - but the fact remains that I have to see them do it against quality teams before I'm really convinced. I'm just not going to be sold before that point.

Maybe we'll see that in January. Maybe we'll see it in 2011. We're not going to see it in December. And that's not his fault.I still see this as the stupidest fucking arguement. Cassel hasn't proved he can be our QB because he hasn't beat the teams we haven't played. :doh!:

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 03:00 PM
The team responded today to plays Cassel made when before they were lackluster on offense and defense.

He made the difference. The pass to Bowe was huge as well as his running.

Afraid to get hit, LMAO at Claython.

Douche Baggins
12-19-2010, 03:00 PM
Keep hoping because it sure as heck ain't gonna happen.

What? You're saying Cassel is never going to be at the level of Matt Ryan?

Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 03:00 PM
I really hate the term "franchise QB". There are about 7 of them across the NFL. That's 1 for every 4 teams in the league.

24 Passing TD's, 5 INT's this season.
If you don't like the guy...say that. Make sure everyone knows it's personal and has nothing to do with the way he performs on the field. To keep pretending he hasn't done enough for you to be content is bullshit.

Thing is, for all the talk of perspective, the real perspective we're all gonna get is what shitty shitty opponents we've been bequeathed by our 2009 record, the state of our AFCW, and our NFCW division opponent.

We're the Boise State of the NFL right now, impressive looking at times, but a lot of wondering how we'll fare against quality opponents.

FTR< that goes for the whole team.

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 03:01 PM
I do. The guy has a ton of character. He'll probably never be one of the "elite" QBs of the league, nobody can question his grit and character and that counts a lot when you are the team's leader and can sometimes overcome athletic ability.

Getting a bunch of basement dwelling sports message board haters convinced of something that is obvious isn't a big deal.

milkman
12-19-2010, 03:01 PM
I think a franchise QB is the QB who is the unquestioned leader of the team.

Goldmember
12-19-2010, 03:01 PM
I will admit that I am of a different opinion of him over the last few weeks than I was the first few. He looks like he is starting to "get it". Threw his 1st pic in forever today and took his first sack that was HIS fault today in a long time as well. Last year that spelled a loss. Today he played through it, played through some adversity and injury and led his team to a must win on the road.

And that pick probably wasn't his fault. Either Bowe or Moeakai ran the wrong route because they were both at the same spot. He's playing with probably the worst receiver group in the NFL that constantly seem to be making mistakes and dropping the ball.

DenverDanChiefsFan
12-19-2010, 03:02 PM
Depends your definition of a franchise QB.

My definition is someone you can win a SB with. There are several of those guys in the league, including guys like Rodgers, Ryan, etc.

I want a QB at that level, at the least. Doesn't have to be Elway or Manning.Really? How many rings do Rodgers and Ryan have as starting QBs? I think it is the same number as Cassel as a starting QB. :thumb:

keg in kc
12-19-2010, 03:02 PM
I still see this as the stupidest ****ing arguement. Cassel hasn't proved he can be our QB because he hasn't beat the teams we haven't played. You misunderstand. When I said in my initial post that he's shown he can be a game manager, I was saying that he has proven he can be our QB.

What I don't know is if he can be anything more than a game manager. Because he hasn't been put into that situation yet.

Douche Baggins
12-19-2010, 03:02 PM
So, Eli Manning is a franchise QB?

Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were?

I should probably rephrase.

Someone who gives the team a chance to a win a SB.

Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson gave their defenses chances to win the SB.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 03:02 PM
The team responded today to plays Cassel made when before they were lackluster on offense and defense.

He made the difference. The pass to Bowe was huge as well as his running.

Afraid to get hit, LMAO at Claython.

That long throw to Bowe was his best he's made in a Chiefs uniform, IMO.

More of that, please.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 03:02 PM
No, it isn't.

He had an average game against a bad defense.

You people really need to have higher standards.

It was a gutty, winning peformance, but he has a ways to go before he proves he's worthy of being called a franchise QB. He has to play well the next three weeks in a row, or there will be questions.

Only you. JFC.

Cassel had a terrific performance today. It wasn't fucking average. He led the team to a convincing victory despite the Chiefs' receivers fucking up on four 3rd down situations in the 1st quarter, and Dex fucking up on an opportunity to extend a 4th quarter drive.

He played well in spite of horrible play from his supporting cast. He was the Chiefs' offense today. Period.

Douche Baggins
12-19-2010, 03:03 PM
Then your definition of a franchise QB extends to about half of the QBs in the NFL.

I think it's about 10-12 guys. Which just goes to show I don't have some unrealistic standard for Cassel.

RINGLEADER
12-19-2010, 03:03 PM
I'll eat up -- he's shown me enough.

But I think he remains a work in progress. Put another way, though, if he was a QBOTF draft pick I'd be pleased at where he's at.

Now if we could only get him receivers who can catch the damn ball...

Lonewolf Ed
12-19-2010, 03:03 PM
Cassel could have played a bit timidly after having surgery, but he didn't. He has guts, no doubt, and I am thinking his guts might be right up there with Deberg. He ran for a first down and should have had another. Maybe it's just me, but 11 days after an apendectomy, if I was playing, running the ball myself would probably be the last thing I wanted to do.

So hats off to Matt. Sus cajones son grandes, Cassel! :thumb:

The Bad Guy
12-19-2010, 03:04 PM
The team responded today to plays Cassel made when before they were lackluster on offense and defense.

He made the difference. The pass to Bowe was huge as well as his running.

Afraid to get hit, LMAO at Claython.

Reading his posts anymore reminds me of someone so desperately trying to fit in. He's trying to fit into the pessimistic crowd so much but it's an utter and epic fail.

milkman
12-19-2010, 03:04 PM
You misunderstand. When I said in my initial post that he's shown he can be a game manager, I was saying that he has proven he can be our QB.

What I don't know is if he can be anything more than a game manager. Because he hasn't been put into that situation yet.

Lenny Dawson was a game manager.

Troy Aikman was a game manager.

Terry Bradshaw was a game manager.

Bart Starr was the very epitome of game manager.

But they were also franchise QBs.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 03:04 PM
Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson gave their defenses chances to win the SB.

SO they are your definition of Franchise Qb? LOL....

Fail

http://i56.tinypic.com/1zuixe.jpg

dirk digler
12-19-2010, 03:04 PM
Why are certain idiots complaining about his performance after coming off a major surgery anyway? They Chiefs were damn lucky he could suit up let alone play fairly decent.

RedThat
12-19-2010, 03:05 PM
The same thing it will take for the entire team to convince me they've really turned around: meaningful games against good competition.

It's not his/their fault they've played the schedule that they have - they don't have any control over who lines up against them - but the fact remains that I have to see them do it against quality teams before I'm really convinced. I'm just not going to be sold before that point.

Maybe we'll see that in January. Maybe we'll see it in 2011. We're not going to see it in December. And that's not his fault or the team's fault, obviously.

Okay you got some good points. I will give you credit. And the Chiefs hardly played some good competition this year ala Indy, Jacksonville. Cassel didn't win us those games, but he didn't lose them either.

Time will tell. We may or may not get to see him perform in the playoffs? Hopefully this team makes it.

Von Dumbass
12-19-2010, 03:06 PM
So is Chiefsplanet happy to have Cassel for the next 5 years now? Serious question.

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 03:06 PM
So is Chiefsplanet happy to have Cassel for the next 5 years now? Serious question.

Fuck you. You are a quitter.

Just Passin' By
12-19-2010, 03:07 PM
I think it's about 10-12 guys. Which just goes to show I don't have some unrealistic standard for Cassel.

You're a fucking idiot.

RedThat
12-19-2010, 03:07 PM
What? You're saying Cassel is never going to be at the level of Matt Ryan?

haha very funny. way to twist it claythan:LOL:

-King-
12-19-2010, 03:07 PM
This is my response to this thread.

Yep, you can see the team get excited around him. I think he's a guy that teammates want to win with. He's really turned into a leader.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 03:07 PM
So is Chiefsplanet happy to have Cassel for the next 5 years now? Serious question.

I am...I mean if he stays injury free I think it will give us stability at the QB spot, and let us improve the rest of the team.....Could be worse things....

siberian khatru
12-19-2010, 03:07 PM
**** you. You are a quitter.

ROFL:thumb:

diveonthefloor31
12-19-2010, 03:07 PM
Cassel is tougher than nails
Tougher than beef jerky
Tougher than a burnt KC strip steak
Tougher than a Sherman tank

What the heck was that play call QB sweep?

And what I like best about Cassel? He is a big a fan as the best Chief's fan on this message board. He leads his team, motivates his team, inspires his team....
Holy crap that guy is a player!

Micjones
12-19-2010, 03:08 PM
Thing is, for all the talk of perspective, the real perspective we're all gonna get is what shitty shitty opponents we've been bequeathed by our 2009 record, the state of our AFCW, and our NFCW division opponent.

When the season began... Both the Saints and Chargers had weaker schedules than the Chiefs. You ready to dismiss the numbers Brees and Rivers have put up this season because of that fact? I didn't think so...

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2010, 03:08 PM
And if he doesn't this year, we will get numerous posts from you about how you were right and how he sucks.

The fact this team is even looking at the playoffs in year 2 of a massive rebuild is impressive as hell.

We are a year ahead of schedule mainly bc of the play of Cassel this year. I am happy we are winning and he is playing great. But the bottom line is I want playoff wins, I want us to be the Patriots and Steelers. I really don't want to be right at all about Cassel, I'm not some miserable douche like Mecca. I just want the Chiefs to win and to me that means in the postseason.

KChiefs1
12-19-2010, 03:09 PM
QB is the least of this team's worries right now...

Bane
12-19-2010, 03:10 PM
So is Chiefsplanet happy to have Cassel for the next 5 years now? Serious question.

Just FYI asshole,the Chiefs have won 3 times as many games as the Donks at the present time.....Eat shit troll.Serious answer.

keg in kc
12-19-2010, 03:10 PM
Okay you got some good points. I will give you credit. And the Chiefs did play some good competition this year ala Indy, Jacksonville.Throw in the Chargers and that gives them a total of 4 games (out of 14) against teams above .500. Not exactly a run of playoff opponents. But we knew that before the season started, and I think we're probably all thrilled with where they are right now, both the team and Cassel.

I'm just trying to keep the enthusiasm tempered with a bit of reality...

cdcox
12-19-2010, 03:11 PM
Well, you don't get to decide when I eat crow. My bar has always been a franchise-level QB. Someone that can make a playoff-level defense play 100% honest in order to keep the running game open. Someone who can trot on the field with the game on the line and the other team gets a little weak in the knees. The kind of QB that will give us a chance to win a SB year after year.

Kudos to Cassel to having a very good year. It doesn't look like he will be the limiting factor this season. I'll give him that.

BillSelfsTrophycase
12-19-2010, 03:12 PM
I'll eat it, pass the hot sauce

WV
12-19-2010, 03:12 PM
Okay but just don't throw it over your shoulder. I beg you please.

Afraid of Seabass?? :D

-King-
12-19-2010, 03:13 PM
We are a year ahead of schedule mainly bc of the play of Cassel this year. I am happy we are winning and he is playing great. But the bottom line is I want playoff wins, I want us to be the Patriots and Steelers. I really don't want to be right at all about Cassel, I'm not some miserable douche like Mecca. I just want the Chiefs to win and to me that means in the postseason.

Agreed. Hope we can trade for Larry Fitzgerald or draft Julio Jones or someone like that. Our Offense will be dangerous then.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 03:13 PM
We are a year ahead of schedule mainly bc of the play of Cassel this year. I am happy we are winning and he is playing great. But the bottom line is I want playoff wins, I want us to be the Patriots and Steelers. I really don't want to be right at all about Cassel, I'm not some miserable douche like Mecca. I just want the Chiefs to win and to me that means in the postseason.

I agree with your point. Unfortunately, we have to be realistic with the idea that this team isn't quite there yet and that's a pretty tall order for a guy who probably won't get too much help in the playoffs.

Regardless of how well Cassel plays in the playoffs (if we get there), this team as a whole is probably not going deep. All I cared about this season was Cassel proving or not proving he can be a guy we can depend on.

I think it's safe to say he bought another year. However, I'm still on board with drafting a QB early. Say, a Christian Ponder type guy.

RedThat
12-19-2010, 03:13 PM
We are a year ahead of schedule mainly bc of the play of Cassel this year. I am happy we are winning and he is playing great. But the bottom line is I want playoff wins, I want us to be the Patriots and Steelers. I really don't want to be right at all about Cassel, I'm not some miserable douche like Mecca. I just want the Chiefs to win and to me that means in the postseason.

Im with you on your post. But, all I got to say is, one step at a time Chiefscountry. One step at a time. Zach said it well lets just keep winning. We control our own destiny. And if the time comes if we do make it, then we could start looking at the playoffs, and want wins. If we don't make it, no point stressing about the playoffs.

*I want the Chiefs to be like the Patriots and Steelers as well. And I think those are the two teams they are trying to be like.

milkman
12-19-2010, 03:14 PM
We are a year ahead of schedule mainly bc of the play of Cassel this year. I am happy we are winning and he is playing great. But the bottom line is I want playoff wins, I want us to be the Patriots and Steelers. I really don't want to be right at all about Cassel, I'm not some miserable douche like Mecca. I just want the Chiefs to win and to me that means in the postseason.

Here's the thing.

We've watched as Cassel has grown before our very eyes this season, but even were he Peyton Manning, there just isn't enough talent on this team, on either side of the ball, to overcome our shortcomings against SB quality opponents, and that is no way should be a reflection on Cassel.

We saw how much Manning struggles, the guy some think is the best ever, without his full complement of talent around him.

The bottom line, QB is the most important position on the field, and we are seeing Cassel grow into the role of the leader of this team as the weeks go by, but it is still a team sport, hell, the ultimate team sport, and we just have too many deficiencies ot overcome to expect anyone to overcome them.

Phobia
12-19-2010, 03:16 PM
Hilarious for two reasons.
1. He's outplayed BOTH of them this season.
2. Neither of them have ever won a Superbowl.

Micj - he's a white guy.

Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 03:16 PM
Lenny Dawson was a game manager.

Troy Aikman was a game manager.

Terry Bradshaw was a game manager.

Bart Starr was the very epitome of game manager.

But they were also franchise QBs.

The is to have a game manager who plays phucktard-play free, no banging hail marys off the goalpost, no flea flickers turned into 2 yard checkdowns thrown into the lineman's mitts, no screen passes 5 feet over the RB's head, no non-blindside sack strips when you have time to get rid of it, no RZ pick-6s, no finding the one guy who's triple covered and trying to sling into the crowd, etc, etc.

And Cassel's slowly but steadily cutting down on those, but hasn't erased them totally, to where I can sit back and say 'well he'll probably never do anything retarded again.'

Hence, coupled with the epic nature of previous phucktard plays, the wait-and-see.

And BTW, did you see the '100 greatest' segment on Bart Starr? Made a compelling case that he was called upon to be a game manager by design and mindset, but was repeatedly proven capable of much more when the time came for it. Accompanied by a string of sick throws to reinforce the take.

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Marcellus
12-19-2010, 03:16 PM
Here's the thing.

We've watched as Cassel has grown before our very eyes this season, but even were he Peyton Manning, there just isn't enough talent on this team, on either side of the ball, to overcome our shortcomings against SB quality opponents, and that is no way should be a reflection on Cassel.

We saw how much Manning struggles, the guy some think is the best ever, without his full complement of talent around him.

The bottom line, QB is the most important position on the field, and we are seeing Cassel grow into the role of the leader of this team as the weeks go by, but it is still a team sport, hell, the ultimate team sport, and we just have too many deficiencies ot overcome to expect anyone to overcome them.


:thumb:

kstater
12-19-2010, 03:17 PM
Here's the thing.

We've watched as Cassel has grown before our very eyes this season, but even were he Peyton Manning, there just isn't enough talent on this team, on either side of the ball, to overcome our shortcomings against SB quality opponents, and that is no way should be a reflection on Cassel.

We saw how much Manning struggles, the guy some think is the best ever, without his full complement of talent around him.

The bottom line, QB is the most important position on the field, and we are seeing Cassel grow into the role of the leader of this team as the weeks go by, but it is still a team sport, hell, the ultimate team sport, and we just have too many deficiencies ot overcome to expect anyone to overcome them.Yeah, this team isn't winning a playoff game. And I'm prepared for the shit that's gonna come when they lose one.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 03:18 PM
Here's the thing.

We've watched as Cassel has grown before our very eyes this season, but even were he Peyton Manning, there just isn't enough talent on this team, on either side of the ball, to overcome our shortcomings against SB quality opponents, and that is no way should be a reflection on Cassel.

We saw how much Manning struggles, the guy some think is the best ever, without his full complement of talent around him.

The bottom line, QB is the most important position on the field, and we are seeing Cassel grow into the role of the leader of this team as the weeks go by, but it is still a team sport, hell, the ultimate team sport, and we just have too many deficiencies ot overcome to expect anyone to overcome them.



Do you really think this offense has less talent than NE's first SB team?

Jermaine Wiggins, FTW.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 03:18 PM
Well, you don't get to decide when I eat crow. My bar has always been a franchise-level QB. Someone that can make a playoff-level defense play 100% honest in order to keep the running game open. Someone who can trot on the field with the game on the line and the other team gets a little weak in the knees. The kind of QB that will give us a chance to win a SB year after year.

Kudos to Cassel to having a very good year. It doesn't look like he will be the limiting factor this season. I'll give him that.

Good post, seedy.

Wallcrawler
12-19-2010, 03:19 PM
No, it isn't.

He had an average game against a bad defense.

You people really need to have higher standards.

It was a gutty, winning peformance, but he has a ways to go before he proves he's worthy of being called a franchise QB. He has to play well the next three weeks in a row, or there will be questions.

tV38eJz-8J4

cdcox
12-19-2010, 03:19 PM
And BTW, did you see the '100 greatest' segment on Bart Starr? Made a compelling case that he was called upon to be a game manager by design and mindset, but was repeatedly proven capable of much more when the time came for it. Accompanied by a string of sick throws to reinforce the take.


This. A franchise-level game manager needs to be able to lead a comeback, when (not if) the need arises. No QB will be successful 100% of comeback attempts. But you want a guy you'd bet on being successful.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2010, 03:19 PM
He's never going to be the level of Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ben. What he is going to be is someone that we can win games with and will be an asset to this offense.

You know, I'm not so sure about that. I think he has a very good chance of being not only a Franchise guy but a Top Five guy as well.

He's improved exponentially this year. It's really only his third year of playing football since high school. He's not only improved on the field by leaps and bounds, but he continues to impress as THE LEADER of this football team.

I never expected such a turnaround from last season and at this point in time, I don't think he's even close to his ceiling.

The guy is really fucking impressive and I'm more excited about the quarterback of the Kansas City Chiefs since Len Dawson was winning championships.

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 03:19 PM
Do you really think this offense has less talent than NE's first SB team?

Jermaine Wiggins, FTW.

Cassel isn't Brady and Haley isn't BB. I am not naive enough to think otherwise. We need more talent. 99% of teams do.

Dumb correlation.

InChiefsHell
12-19-2010, 03:20 PM
What I saw out of Matt Cassel today was a will to win and if that means rushing for 20 yards than so be it. If that means hanging in the pocket and getting punished for it a few times, so be it. If that means throwing the ball away or taking early time outs, then so be it. This fuckin guy is IN CONTROL. He knows what he's doing and does it with a passion. And, at the end of the day, he's pretty fucking good at what he does. What the hell else do people want?

All the other great QBs in the league had the supporting cast to make them great. The Chiefs are almost there. Matt is the least of our problems. I've been back and forth, but for now...Matt Cassel is the man and I can't think of another QB I'd have over him. You go Matt! Guts...determination...character...and performance...he showed it all this season, and today he out performed the Rapist after HIS surgery...

I shall put my faith in Matt. He's at least as good for us as Trent was...and that was pretty fuckin' good.

...I've had a lot to drink today, fwiw...

milkman
12-19-2010, 03:22 PM
Do you really think this offense has less talent than NE's first SB team?

Jermaine Wiggins, FTW.

I think this team has less talent in key positions on both sides of the ball, not specifically on offense.

That Patriot team had a hell of a defense.

This Chief defense is lacking too much in the front 7 to really make any noise against a good team in teh playoffs.

Crennel is working wonders with scheme with this defense, but when w eplays teams that can run and pass effectively, scheme can't make a difference.

Short Leash Hootie
12-19-2010, 03:22 PM
Tennessee with Kerry Collins isn't going to be an easy game...especially with Kenny Britt healthy.

spanky 52
12-19-2010, 03:22 PM
I think they can win a playoff game if it's in Arrowhead. But no way if it's on the road. But to think we'll have a winning record this year is unthinkable just a couple months ago. Life is good.

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2010, 03:22 PM
I agree with your point. Unfortunately, we have to be realistic with the idea that this team isn't quite there yet and that's a pretty tall order for a guy who probably won't get too much help in the playoffs.

Regardless of how well Cassel plays in the playoffs (if we get there), this team as a whole is probably not going deep. All I cared about this season was Cassel proving or not proving he can be a guy we can depend on.

I think it's safe to say he bought another year. However, I'm still on board with drafting a QB early. Say, a Christian Ponder type guy.

Winning one playoff game this year, can be done. Ravens or Jets would be our opponent more than likely. Both of them have QB's that are the same as Cassel. I'm not expecting a deep run at all. But one win or Cassel proving he is up to the challenge would be nice to see.

The QB I want us to draft is Nathan Enderle from Idaho in the 3rd or 4th.

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 03:23 PM
I have zero clue why someone thinks this team couldn't win a playoff game.

Have you seen some of the shit these other teams do from week to week?

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 03:24 PM
Do you really think this offense has less talent than NE's first SB team?

Jermaine Wiggins, FTW.

The Patriots were a complete team. That defense with Seymour, McGinest, Bruschi, Vrabel, Milloy, Hamilton, Phifer, and Law?

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 03:24 PM
Cassel isn't Brady and Haley isn't BB. I am not naive enough to think otherwise. We need more talent. 99% of teams do.

Dumb correlation.

Welp, that was easy.

One guy is a franchise QB that won a SB with very little around him

The other is a guy that everyone says needs more around him.



And for what it's worth, I was impressed with his toughness and leadership today. I'll be honest, he made some decisions and throws that had he been 100%, I'd be disappointed with. But considering his condition, he got the job done today.

But I didn't see anything that changes my mind about him being capable of winning a SB. Not sure why today is the day people should be eating crow.

Good win, time to get two more and get this young roster some playoff experience.

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 03:24 PM
I have zero clue why someone thinks this team couldn't win a playoff game.

Have you seen some of the shit these other teams do from week to week?

Dude we all watch every game in sports bars every week and know what every team is doing. Wake up.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 03:25 PM
The Patriots were a complete team. That defense with Seymour, McGinest, Bruschi, Vrabel, Milloy, Hamilton, Phifer, and Law?

We weren't talking about the defense, now were we?

We were talking about the talent (or lack of) on the offense.

Bugeater
12-19-2010, 03:25 PM
Sorry if I'm not jumping for joy because the guy is finally doing what he's paid to do.

Short Leash Hootie
12-19-2010, 03:25 PM
Cassel is every bit as good this year as Tom Brady was the year the Pats won their first Super Bowl..

that much is fact

Frankie
12-19-2010, 03:25 PM
Nope. Not gonna believe until he bounces one off the jumbotron for a TD completion.

Only one bounce?.... Nah! It has to ricochet off of at least three obstacles before I'm sold.

Frankie
12-19-2010, 03:26 PM
It would be nice to seem him with a group of good WR's and a little better line.

That day will come.

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 03:27 PM
Welp, that was easy.

One guy is a franchise QB that won a SB with very little around him

The other is a guy that everyone says needs more around him.



And for what it's worth, I was impressed with his toughness and leadership today. I'll be honest, he made some decisions and throws that had he been 100%, I'd be disappointed with. But considering his condition, he got the job done today.

But I didn't see anything that changes my mind about him being capable of winning a SB. Not sure why today is the day people should be eating crow.

Good win, time to get two more and get this young roster some playoff experience.

So if Cassel isn't Brady, one of the top 10 QB's of all time he is a failure? That's what you are basically saying.

Ok.

dirk digler
12-19-2010, 03:27 PM
I have zero clue why someone thinks this team couldn't win a playoff game.

Have you seen some of the shit these other teams do from week to week?

If it is at home sure they have a chance.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 03:27 PM
Winning one playoff game this year, can be done. Ravens or Jets would be our opponent more than likely. Both of them have QB's that are the same as Cassel. I'm not expecting a deep run at all. But one win or Cassel proving he is up to the challenge would be nice to see.

The QB I want us to draft is Nathan Enderle from Idaho in the 3rd or 4th.

I don't disagree with you here. I want to see something out of him too. But regardless of how well he plays, we're underdogs. Those teams can run the ball better than us and have a shitload more talent than us on defense. Not to mention that they have legit, consistent weapons in the passing game.

For us to win in the playoffs, more than likely Cassel is going to have to overcome the rest of our team being very outmatched. I definitely think the Chiefs can potentially win a first playoff game. But it's a lot to ask and he's going to need some help.

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 03:29 PM
I don't really think that some on here are that far off when they evaluate the Chiefs. But some people really seem to miss the boat when they talk about how good the Chiefs are compared to other NFL teams. Its like other teams get a pass for all the stupid shit they do but if Matty C doesn't put up Madden numbers he is getting there but not quite proven he has "it" and even when he does some other bullshit excuse is made for moving the goal posts.

milkman
12-19-2010, 03:29 PM
Welp, that was easy.

One guy is a franchise QB that won a SB with very little around him

The other is a guy that everyone says needs more around him.



And for what it's worth, I was impressed with his toughness and leadership today. I'll be honest, he made some decisions and throws that had he been 100%, I'd be disappointed with. But considering his condition, he got the job done today.

But I didn't see anything that changes my mind about him being capable of winning a SB. Not sure why today is the day people should be eating crow.

Good win, time to get two more and get this young roster some playoff experience.

I've been coming around because I've seen progress from Cassel in his last three starts (including today) that I never thought I would see.

He''s growing into an NFL QB.

He's showing much improved pocket presense, much improved mechanics, and making actual reads an good audibles.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 03:31 PM
So if Cassel isn't Brady, one of the top 10 QB's of all time he is a failure? That's what you are basically saying.

Ok.

Uh, no. Quit putting words into my mouth. Again.

Nowhere have I said failure.

Milkman said he needed more talent around him.

I pointed out that franchise QB's can get it done without it. They make everyone better.

At this point, he's a good game manager. Which I'll admit, is more than I thought he was capable of.

milkman
12-19-2010, 03:33 PM
Here's the thing.

We've watched as Cassel has grown before our very eyes this season, but even were he Peyton Manning, there just isn't enough talent on this team, on either side of the ball, to overcome our shortcomings against SB quality opponents, and that is no way should be a reflection on Cassel.

We saw how much Manning struggles, the guy some think is the best ever, without his full complement of talent around him.

The bottom line, QB is the most important position on the field, and we are seeing Cassel grow into the role of the leader of this team as the weeks go by, but it is still a team sport, hell, the ultimate team sport, and we just have too many deficiencies ot overcome to expect anyone to overcome them.

We weren't talking about the defense, now were we?

We were talking about the talent (or lack of) on the offense.

Actually path, your question was directed at the post above, and I said that there was a lack of talent, on bith sides of the ball.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 03:34 PM
I've been coming around because I've seen progress from Cassel in his last three starts (including today) that I never thought I would see.

He''s growing into an NFL QB.

He's showing much improved pocket presense, much improved mechanics, and making actual reads an good audibles.

I agree.

He made some mind-numbing decisions/throws today, but I'm not going to crucify him for them. Dude's playing 11 days after having his appendix removed.

I respect the hell out of his toughness.

I'm just wondering why today is the day people should be eating crow.

InChiefsHell
12-19-2010, 03:34 PM
Uh, no. Quit putting words into my mouth. Again.

Nowhere have I said failure.

Milkman said he needed more talent around him.

I pointed out that franchise QB's can get it done without it. They make everyone better.

At this point, he's a good game manager. Which I'll admit, is more than I thought he was capable of.

Maybe. But game managers don't rush for 2 first downs (well, one that almost was a first down) after having their appendix removed. Matt is a little more than just a game manager. how much more remains to be seen...but this dude can get it done. Now it's up to the supporting cast...

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 03:34 PM
Welp, that was easy.

One guy is a franchise QB that won a SB with very little around him

The other is a guy that everyone says needs more around him.



And for what it's worth, I was impressed with his toughness and leadership today. I'll be honest, he made some decisions and throws that had he been 100%, I'd be disappointed with. But considering his condition, he got the job done today.

But I didn't see anything that changes my mind about him being capable of winning a SB. Not sure why today is the day people should be eating crow.

Good win, time to get two more and get this young roster some playoff experience.

Here's the standard I'll throw down. How many NFL QBs can take this current Chiefs' team deep into the playoffs? Given that our defense is probably going to get handled by good offenses and given that our o-line is probably going to get outmatched by dominant defensive lines? A handful, if any. Of course I'd love to have our own version of Brady or Peyton or Brees. But that's a tough standard and 95% of teams won't find that.

I just want to see Cassel make smart decisions in the playoffs and play like a confident leader. I obviously want to win, but realistically, this team as a whole isn't good enough. And no, this team as a whole doesn't hold a candle to the 2001 Patriots, who by the way, shut the Greatest Show on Turf down in the biggest game of the season.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 03:36 PM
Actually path, your question was directed at the post above, and I said that there was a lack of talent, on bith sides of the ball.

Yes, you did.

But Cassel doesn't play defense. We can only compare what he has on offense compared to what Brady had. And I don't think the Chiefs are less talented on offense than that squad.

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 03:36 PM
I agree.

He made some mind-numbing decisions/throws today, but I'm not going to crucify him for them. Dude's playing 11 days after having his appendix removed.

I respect the hell out of his toughness.

I'm just wondering why today is the day people should be eating crow.

It's not today, it is the season.

Micjones
12-19-2010, 03:37 PM
Yep. Brady won that '01 Superbowl all by himself.
Damn the 1,100 rusher he had in Antowain Smith who also scored 12 TD's.
Damn the 1,100 yard pass catcher he had in Troy Brown.
Damn the 700+ yards he got from his #2.
Damn the Top 10 defense he ALSO had.

Boy I tell ya...

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 03:39 PM
Yes, you did.

But Cassel doesn't play defense. We can only compare what he has on offense compared to what Brady had. And I don't think the Chiefs are less talented on offense than that squad.

Yes they are because Cassel isn't Brady. As well as about 28 QB's starting in the league right now.

Do you not see what you are making a comparison too?

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 03:39 PM
Uh, no. Quit putting words into my mouth. Again.

Nowhere have I said failure.

Milkman said he needed more talent around him.

I pointed out that franchise QB's can get it done without it. They make everyone better.

At this point, he's a good game manager. Which I'll admit, is more than I thought he was capable of.

What more are you asking for?

His receivers dropped 4 catchable 3rd down passes today in the most critical moments of the game (early on).

His offensive line was below average today, but Cassel consistently escaped pressure and found spots in the pocket to extend plays.

The defense played like shit early, but Cassel still played remarkably well in the first quarter (in spite of what the drive charts will tell you).

Cassel wasn't a game manager today. He was a guy who played behind a shaky offensive line, an average running game today, and receivers who refused to catch the ball. Matt Cassel WAS the offense today. Just as he was against Arizona and Seattle. Those are things I couldn't say even in convincing wins against Jacksonville and Seattle.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 03:42 PM
Here's the standard I'll throw down. How many NFL QBs can take this current Chiefs' team deep into the playoffs?

Stop.

Who expects Cassel to take this team deep into the playoffs?

I just posted the other day that I won't be that upset if they were to make it and lose in the first round, because the experience itself is invaluable.

But you guys can't have it both ways.

There are posts asking why we people think we can't win in the playoffs, then posts like yours that imply we're an inferior team.

Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 03:43 PM
What's also infuriating is trying to debate a set of goal posts set on strobe;

Oh, if he isn't Brady, he's a failure.

You gotta admit he's gotten better

I think he'll be one of the elites

Only 1 or teams in the league get that elite franchise

I can't think of any other QB I'd rather have

C'mon at least respect the strides he's made

You're gonna feel stupid when he's leading a dynasty one day

How can you hate on him after his numbers . . .

It's enough to put you into an epileptic fit.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 03:45 PM
Yes they are because Cassel isn't Brady. As well as about 28 QB's starting in the league right now.

Do you not see what you are making a comparison too?

So Brady was a franchise QB that regular season?

milkman
12-19-2010, 03:45 PM
Yes, you did.

But Cassel doesn't play defense. We can only compare what he has on offense compared to what Brady had. And I don't think the Chiefs are less talented on offense than that squad.

Perhaps not, but I do think that O-Line for the Pats was much better than this line, even with the offseason additions that improved this line.

We are better, by far, at the RB position, and Bowe is better than any receiver on that Patriot team, but at the end of the day, I'm still a guy that believes games are won, or lost in the trenches.

And the Patriots were better there on both sides of the ball.

Micjones
12-19-2010, 03:45 PM
What's also infuriating is trying to debate a set of goal posts set on strobe;

Oh, if he isn't Brady, he's a failure.

You gotta admit he's gotten better

I think he'll be one of the elites

Only 1 or teams in the league get that elite franchise

I can't think of any other QB I'd rather have

C'mon at least respect the strides he's made

You're gonna feel stupid when he's leading a dynasty one day

How can you hate on him after his numbers . . .

It's enough to put you into an epileptic fit.

Not sure how that's moving the goalposts when most of those sentiments are accompanied by a number of DIFFERENT people who've expressed them.

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 03:46 PM
Stop.

Who expects Cassel to take this team deep into the playoffs?

I just posted the other day that I won't be that upset if they were to make it and lose in the first round, because the experience itself is invaluable.

But you guys can't have it both ways.

There are posts asking why we people think we can't win in the playoffs, then posts like yours that imply we're an inferior team.

It goes both ways. Nobody thought Cassel would lead this team to the playoffs.

Now if we lose it will be lit up with failure posts.

Bottom line is the team and Cassel have both exceeded expectation.

Yea we have warts, but we knew that. The bottom line is the team has covered the warts most of the year and have a chance to apply some wart remover in the offseason.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 03:48 PM
What's also infuriating is trying to debate a set of goal posts set on strobe;

Oh, if he isn't Brady, he's a failure.

You gotta admit he's gotten better

I think he'll be one of the elites

Only 1 or teams in the league get that elite franchise

I can't think of any other QB I'd rather have

C'mon at least respect the strides he's made

You're gonna feel stupid when he's leading a dynasty one day

How can you hate on him after his numbers . . .

It's enough to put you into an epileptic fit.

**** all of that shit....Whoever says any of that stuff is going to extremes to either get a reaction or is just a moron.

The vast majority of people on CP (at least who actually made posts) were HIGHLY negative about Cassel and didn't think he would do shit this season.

They were wrong, period. No need to go any further than that...They were horribly horribly wrong about Cassel...

They can TRY to move the goal posts all they want to, because it makes them feel better....But deep down they know they didn't give him enough of a chance before they gave up on the kid. **** them...He is improving and has a ways to go, he proved he isn't garbage, he proved he is a pretty good QB, now lets see what else he can prove.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 03:48 PM
Yes, you did.

But Cassel doesn't play defense. We can only compare what he has on offense compared to what Brady had. And I don't think the Chiefs are less talented on offense than that squad.

Brady's defense in 2001 gave up 13 points, 17 points, and 17 points. And that Super Bowl 17 points was against arguably the best offense of the decade led by Kurt Warner.

And as far talent comparisons, it's not that far off. The Pats had a reliable receiver in Troy Brown (the Chiefs have a wildly inconsistent receiver in Bowe), a reliable Running Back in Antowain Smith (advantage Chiefs here), and a terrific offensive line behind Matt Light, Damien Woody, and Joe Andruzzi. There is a negligible difference between the two offenses.

As for the Pats' offense, they held Gannon to less than 200 yards and Garner to less than 75 yards against Oakland, forced 3 INTs against Kordell in the AFC Championship game, and held an offensive powerhouse in St. Louis to 17 points (including 2 INTs). Do you see the Chiefs' defense as being even close to good enough to help the team out in that way?

It's a complete apples-to-oranges comparison. The Pats' defense in the 2001 season was absolutely dominant.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 03:50 PM
It's not today, it is the season.

Great numbers, no doubt.

But you know exactly what people are waiting for.

Micjones
12-19-2010, 03:51 PM
Brady's defense in 2001 gave up 13 points, 17 points, and 17 points. And that Super Bowl 17 points was against arguably the best offense of the decade led by Kurt Warner.

And as far talent comparisons, it's not that far off. The Pats had a reliable receiver in Troy Brown (the Chiefs have a wildly inconsistent receiver in Bowe), a reliable Running Back in Antowain Smith (advantage Chiefs here), and a terrific offensive line behind Matt Light, Damien Woody, and Joe Andruzzi. There is a negligible difference between the two offenses.

As for the Pats' offense, they held Gannon to less than 200 yards and Garner to less than 75 yards against Oakland, forced 3 INTs against Kordell in the AFC Championship game, and held an offensive powerhouse in St. Louis to 17 points (including 2 INTs). Do you see the Chiefs' defense as being even close to good enough to help the team out in that way?

It's a complete apples-to-oranges comparison. The Pats' defense in the 2001 season was absolutely dominant.

You're not helping.

SNR
12-19-2010, 03:52 PM
I don't want another Gannon/Grbac/Green. I want a guy who's tough, wins games, and puts us in the playoffs year after year.

Cassel's improved by leaps and bounds, but he's in the show-me state.

A playoff win this January will change my opinion of him. I've said that since July. I just doubted his chances. I think he's got a good shot of doing that.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 03:52 PM
Stop.

Who expects Cassel to take this team deep into the playoffs?

I just posted the other day that I won't be that upset if they were to make it and lose in the first round, because the experience itself is invaluable.

But you guys can't have it both ways.

There are posts asking why we people think we can't win in the playoffs, then posts like yours that imply we're an inferior team.

What you are saying here is a complete 180 from what you're saying in the rest of the thread.

You're suggesting that Brady overcame a lacking in talent to win the Super Bowl. He didn't. The Pats were a complete team who got great play from their QB--but ask Brady to do the same in 2001 with the Chiefs' defense, and you're talking about a totally different scenario.

Given Cassel's supporting cast, he shouldn't be expected to win. I don't think it's outrageous to believe the Chiefs can pull off a playoff win. It's going to require mistake-free football, our defense playing well, and Cassel playing well all at the same time. But our squad isn't good enough to do that consistently and they are going to have to not just play good enough, but perfect.

milkman
12-19-2010, 03:53 PM
I don't want another Gannon/Grbac/Green. I want a guy who's tough, wins games, and puts us in the playoffs year after year.

Cassel's improved by leaps and bounds, but he's in the show-me state.

A playoff win this January will change my opinion of him. I've said that since July. I just doubted his chances. I think he's got a good shot of doing that.

I don't think that the Chiefs can win a playoff game this year, and it won't be because Cassel isn't good enough.

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 03:54 PM
Great numbers, no doubt.

But you know exactly what people are waiting for.

A PO win, but if it doesn't happen this year then it's not a failure.

Cassel isn't Bono but people want to make him out be.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 03:54 PM
It goes both ways. Nobody thought Cassel would lead this team to the playoffs.

It could be argue that the running game has lead this team to this point.

On a related note, as I sit here and watch Pittsburgh gash the Jets on the ground, I hope we draw the Jets should we make the playoffs.

That defense is getting worse by the week.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 03:56 PM
A playoff win this January will change my opinion of him. I've said that since July.

In July no one realistically thought we could make the playoffs. That just goes to show everyone how unreasonable this kind of attitude is. We STILL might not make the playoffs if we lose one of the next two games...Does that suddenly nullify everything Cassel has accomplished this season? Your expectations of winning a playoff game are ridiculous now and were even more crazy back in July.....Why not just take it for what it is...A Huge HUGE improvement over the last few seasons and a big step in the right direction.....Something we have not been able to say as a team in a long ass time.

DeezNutz
12-19-2010, 03:56 PM
I was impressed with Cassel today because I wasn't expecting much, this soon post-surgery. In fact, I was actually thinking that I would have to make a post or two defending the guy, since criticism wouldn't be fair, IMO.

That said, he showed tremendous heart--Weis you motherfucker calling a QB boot--and poise, stepping up in the pocket and generally being an anti-Huard in the face of pressure.

The biggest positive, however, seems to be how he's been rebounding from asinine plays. Take the ridiculous overthrow to Battle (I believe). This throw couldn't have been worse. I believe the Cassel of '09 and early '10 would have let this fuck up affect him for several plays later.

Not the current Cassel, though. Like good NFL QBs, the last several weeks he's been able to fuck up, shrug it off, and move on. Everyone fucks up in this league. The difference between shit, good, and great is how you respond to these moments of failure.

Props to Cassel.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 03:57 PM
I don't want another Gannon/Grbac/Green. I want a guy who's tough, wins games, and puts us in the playoffs year after year.

Cassel's improved by leaps and bounds, but he's in the show-me state.

A playoff win this January will change my opinion of him. I've said that since July. I just doubted his chances. I think he's got a good shot of doing that.

You're asking a QB to carry a team that is likely going to be outmatched in every phase of the game and is probably young and make mistakes.

Asking for a playoff win should not be a measuring stick for Cassel. I want to see him perform well in the playoffs and to not make stupid mistakes. And I don't want the Chiefs to lose as a result of Cassel not making plays he's supposed to make. That I agree with. But asking him to likely carry a substandard team to victory regardless of how well the supporting cast plays is a whole other issue entirely.

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 03:58 PM
You're asking a QB to carry a team that is likely going to be outmatched in every phase of the game and is probably young and make mistakes.



What?

Come. on.

mlyonsd
12-19-2010, 03:58 PM
I gave Cassel the benefit of the doubt last year but admit I was starting to turn on him early this year.

He's tough. He's got that want to win attitude even though he might not have the physical skills of some other QB's.

I'm really happy he's our QB right now.

Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 03:59 PM
**** all of that shit....Whoever says any of that stuff is going to extremes to either get a reaction or is just a moron.

The vast majority of people on CP (at least who actually made posts) were HIGHLY negative about Cassel and didn't think he would do shit this season.

They were wrong, period. No need to go any further than that...They were horribly horribly wrong about Cassel...

They can TRY to move the goal posts all they want to, because it makes them feel better....But deep down they know they didn't give him enough of a chance before they gave up on the kid. **** them...He is improving and has a ways to go, he proved he isn't garbage, he proved he is a pretty good QB, now lets see what else he can prove.

Hey Browneyes, you're fighting a strawman utterly of your own invention.

Plenty of people, myself EXPRESSLY, were of the mindset 'I pray daily that the lights come on, but I increasingly fear they won't.' And sure there were a number who were vocal at every instance that reinforced those fears, but that's just passionate fans watching the evidence mount. And the number to 'WANT' him to fail just to be right are miniscule, perhaps isolated to Mecca, certainly not the 'overwhelming majority

For me, the question of Cassel is like the question of whether Adam Sandler is a great, as in Oscar worthy, actor. Sure there's Punch Drunk Love and the like, but the question remains can someone who's given us Little Nicky and Grown Ups mature and give us solid fare for an extended period? Only time will tell.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 04:01 PM
Hey Browneyes, you're fighting a strawman utterly of your own invention.


Oh really so you are saying the vast majority of people on CP who made posts in APril were saying that he would be a solid QB and have a great season and lead us to the playoffs? How about even POSITIVE like saying good things about him?..?

LOL...

Are you an idiot?

Edit: How about MAy, June...July? August? September?

You must be reading different posts than me because I don't recall hardly ANYONE making positive statements about the guy, or defending him..or saying 'hey lets give the kid a chance'

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 04:02 PM
It could be argue that the running game has lead this team to this point.

On a related note, as I sit here and watch Pittsburgh gash the Jets on the ground, I hope we draw the Jets should we make the playoffs.

That defense is getting worse by the week.

The Jets are a collapse waiting to happen. LT is done, the defense is cracking and the QB is a liability.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:02 PM
A PO win, but if it doesn't happen this year then it's not a failure.

Cassel isn't Bono but people want to make him out be.

He'll need a playoff win at some point, not necessarily this year, IMO What he cannot be is the reason we lose a playoff game.

I'd be willing to start at just playing like a franchise QB, (making big plays at crucial times, carrying the team should the running game fail, willing his team to win, etc) in a game against a very good opponent.

Just Passin' By
12-19-2010, 04:03 PM
In July no one realistically thought we could make the playoffs. That just goes to show everyone how unreasonable this kind of attitude is. We STILL might not make the playoffs if we lose one of the next two games...Does that suddenly nullify everything Cassel has accomplished this season? Your expectations of winning a playoff game are ridiculous now and were even more crazy back in July.....Why not just take it for what it is...A Huge HUGE improvement over the last few seasons and a big step in the right direction.....Something we have not been able to say as a team in a long ass time.

You're wasting your time. It seems that long years of losing have turned a chunk of the Chiefs posters here into drooling idiots. One of the Brees/E. Manning/Rodgers trio will likely miss the NFC playoffs this season. Rivers and P. Manning are both still in danger of missing the AFC playoffs. Using the logic of some on this board, that could mean that at least some those 5 QBs suck ass and aren't capable of taking their teams to the Super Bowl.


If only those teams had Brodie Croyle or Tyler Thigpen...

Micjones
12-19-2010, 04:03 PM
For me, the question of Cassel is like the question of whether Adam Sandler is a great, as in Oscar worthy, actor. Sure there's Punch Drunk Love and the like, but the question remains can someone who's given us Little Nicky and Grown Ups mature and give us solid fare for an extended period? Only time will tell.

That's a horrible analogy.
Sandler...Oscar-worthy? Come on.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 04:03 PM
What?

Come. on.

Sorry to break it to you. Revis is going to dominate Bowe. Both the Jets and the Ravens are probably going to overpower our offensive line. The Jets and Ravens both have phenomenal offensive lines that are going to make it extremely difficult for us to rush the passer and control the line of scrimmage. And the Steelers and Pats...?

Let's not set ourselves up for too high of expectations. This is an ascending team that is not quite yet ready for primetime. We can pull off a playoff win if the opponent makes mistakes and we don't, if our opponent comes out unready and we do, if their QB or key player makes too many dumb mistakes, and by outcoaching the other team (probably a combo of all). But there's only so far you can stretch out a talent gap.

I want to win a playoff game too. But it's going to take a whale of a performance to do it. And it's not something I think is critical at this stage in the rebulid anyway.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:04 PM
What?

Come. on.

No shit.

Are we a 9-5 team, or are we the "frauds" Clayton claims?

Jesus, nothing like wanting it both ways to suit your argument.

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 04:04 PM
He'll need a playoff win at some point, not necessarily this year, IMO What he cannot be is the reason we lose a playoff game.

I'd be willing to start at just playing like a franchise QB, (making big plays at crucial times, carrying the team should the running game fail, willing his team to win, etc) in a game against a very good opponent.

I can agree with this.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 04:04 PM
He'll need a playoff win at some point, not necessarily this year, IMO What he cannot be is the reason we lose a playoff game.

I'd be willing to start at just playing like a franchise QB, (making big plays at crucial times, carrying the team should the running game fail, willing his team to win, etc) in a game against a very good opponent.

In complete agreement on that.

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 04:05 PM
Sorry to break it to you. Revis is going to dominate Bowe. Both the Jets and the Ravens are probably going to overpower our offensive line. The Jets and Ravens both have phenomenal offensive lines that are going to make it extremely difficult for us to rush the passer and control the line of scrimmage. And the Steelers and Pats...?

Let's not set ourselves up for too high of expectations. This is an ascending team that is not quite yet ready for primetime. We can pull off a playoff win if the opponent makes mistakes and we don't, if our opponent comes out unready and we do, if their QB or key player makes too many dumb mistakes, and by outcoaching the other team (probably a combo of all). But there's only so far you can stretch out a talent gap.

I want to win a playoff game too. But it's going to take a whale of a performance to do it. And it's not something I think is critical at this stage in the rebulid anyway.
What does the Jets having Revis have to do with us being outmatched in every phase of the game like you said.

Have you seen the Jets play with your eyes?

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2010, 04:06 PM
He'll need a playoff win at some point, not necessarily this year, IMO What he cannot be is the reason we lose a playoff game.

I'd be willing to start at just playing like a franchise QB, (making big plays at crucial times, carrying the team should the running game fail, willing his team to win, etc) in a game against a very good opponent.

I think that over the past few weeks, Cassel is the main reason why the Chiefs are winning games.

Sure, the running game is excellent but he's making players out of guys like Verran Tucker and a washed up Chris Chambers. He's been hitting Bowe and Moeaki with consistency and they're usually at fault when the pass is incomplete. The INT today was in no way Cassel's fault.

It's painfully obvious that Brodie Croyle has no place on this football team. The Chiefs would have probably lost against San Diego last week with Cassel, but that was an entirely different looking football team than the one we saw today.

This team clearly respects Cassel and they play at a higher level when he's under center.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:07 PM
The Jets are a collapse waiting to happen. LT is done, the defense is cracking and the QB is a liability.

I agree to a degree, though I don't think that it's coincidence that the QB play started sliding the same time LT started sliding.

And right now, they are going toe-to-toe with a damn good Pittsburgh team on the road. Which makes me think they are either a collapse waiting to happen, or a team that could get hot and be a nasty out in the playoffs

Hard team to judge.

Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 04:07 PM
Oh really so you are saying the vast majority of people on CP who made posts in APril were saying that he would be a solid QB and have a great season and lead us to the playoffs? How about even POSITIVE like saying good things about him?..?

LOL...

Are you an idiot?

Edit: How about MAy, June...July? August? September?

You must be reading different posts than me because I don't recall hardly ANYONE making positive statements about the guy, or defending him..or saying 'hey lets give the kid a chance'

I am not saying a single one of those things. You have a really annoying trait of creating your opponents position out of whole cloth to make your debate easier.

Earthling
12-19-2010, 04:08 PM
Depends your definition of a franchise QB.

My definition is someone you can win a SB with. There are several of those guys in the league, including guys like Rodgers, Ryan, etc.

I want a QB at that level, at the least. Doesn't have to be Elway or Manning.

This is a flawed definition or would you consider Dilfer to have been a franchise qb as well?

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:09 PM
I think that over the past few weeks, Cassel is the main reason why the Chiefs are winning games.

Sure, the running game is excellent but he's making players out of guys like Verran Tucker and a washed up Chris Chambers. He's been hitting Bowe and Moeaki with consistency and they're usually at fault when the pass is incomplete. The INT today was in no way Cassel's fault.

It's painfully obvious that Brodie Croyle has no place on this football team. The Chiefs would have probably lost against San Diego last week with Cassel, but that was an entirely different looking football team than the one we saw today.

C'mon.

Yes, Mo ran the wrong route.

But that doesn't mean that Cassel still has to deliver the ball to an area with 5 blue jerseys in it.

Bad on Mo, bad on Cassel.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 04:09 PM
Hey Browneyes, you're fighting a strawman utterly of your own invention.

Plenty of people, myself EXPRESSLY, were of the mindset 'I pray daily that the lights come on, but I increasingly fear they won't.' And sure there were a number who were vocal at every instance that reinforced those fears, but that's just passionate fans watching the evidence mount. And the number to 'WANT' him to fail just to be right are miniscule, perhaps isolated to Mecca, certainly not the 'overwhelming majority


Look up 'straw man' in a basic critical thinking text book. Look at my post..Then look at the bolded part of YOUR post. I never said in my post anything about people WANTING him to fail...

You are the one making straw man arguments, but perhaps you are so stupid you don't even know what that means....Take 5 minutes, go back and read what I wrote...Then read your pile of feces.

All I said is people were saying a bunch of negative shit about Cassel....They ended up being wrong...

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2010, 04:10 PM
C'mon.

Yes, Mo ran the wrong route.

But that doesn't mean that Cassel still has to deliver the ball to an area with 5 blue jerseys in it.

Bad on Mo, bad on Cassel.

That doesn't mean that the ball wouldn't have been completed.

Last year (and earlier this year) people were practically begging Cassel to throw the ball when receivers weren't "open". Had Moeaki not run the wrong route, that ball would have either been caught or incomplete.

Earthling
12-19-2010, 04:10 PM
oops. Didn't read far enough but has been adressed already. My bad. :D

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 04:12 PM
What does the Jets having Revis have to do with us being outmatched in every phase of the game like you said.

Have you seen the Jets play with your eyes?

The Jets are a terrific team that gets inconsistent play from their QB and an inconsistent pass rush.

-They have arguably the best offensive line in the game
-They are a team that can run on any team at will
-They have better downfield threats than the Chiefs do
-They have a shutdown corner who will take Bowe entirely out of the game
-While they have an inconsistent QB, they also have an offensive line that (against our pass rush) is going to give Sanchez about 15 seconds to throw the ball

The Chiefs are going to have to piece together a whale of a game to win. Either that or hope that Sanchez completely chokes under pressure, which is entirely in the realm of possibility. I think a win is entirely possible, but that's either because their QB is really bad or they beat themselves.

Short Leash Hootie
12-19-2010, 04:12 PM
C'mon.

Yes, Mo ran the wrong route.

But that doesn't mean that Cassel still has to deliver the ball to an area with 5 blue jerseys in it.

Bad on Mo, bad on Cassel.

maybe he should have checked down instead so he could have been chastised for that, too

mlyonsd
12-19-2010, 04:12 PM
C'mon.

Yes, Mo ran the wrong route.

But that doesn't mean that Cassel still has to deliver the ball to an area with 5 blue jerseys in it.

Bad on Mo, bad on Cassel.

Unless you can see the entire play from Cassel's POV at real time you can't really say that.

Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 04:14 PM
Look up 'straw man' in a basic critical thinking text book. Look at my post..Then look at the bolded part of YOUR post. I never said in my post anything about people WANTING him to fail...

You are the one making straw man arguments, but perhaps you are so stupid you don't even know what that means....Take 5 minutes, go back and read what I wrote...Then read your pile of feces.

All I said is people were saying a bunch of negative shit about Cassel....They ended up being wrong...

Are you going on record that you've never said some of us want him to fail just to be right?

If you are, and that's accurate, I apologize, but I have a pretty good memory.

Short Leash Hootie
12-19-2010, 04:14 PM
he may have forced a throw but you can't have it both ways

do you guys want a conservative checkdown QB on 3rd and long or a guy who willt ry and look off the coverage a bit and make a play that isn't necessarily there?

I mean...

a lot of the times you guys paint lose/lose situations for players

Short Leash Hootie
12-19-2010, 04:15 PM
for instance

Haley's decision to go for it 4th and 1 in our own territory...

we got it, and it changed the game

had we not gotten it...

he would have been verbally gang raped by the masses at ChiefsPlanet

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 04:15 PM
The Jets are a terrific team that gets inconsistent play from their QB and an inconsistent pass rush.

-They have arguably the best offensive line in the game
-They are a team that can run on any team at will
-They have better downfield threats than the Chiefs do
-They have a shutdown corner who will take Bowe entirely out of the game
-While they have an inconsistent QB, they also have an offensive line that (against our pass rush) is going to give Sanchez about 15 seconds to throw the ball

The Chiefs are going to have to piece together a whale of a game to win. Either that or hope that Sanchez completely chokes under pressure, which is entirely in the realm of possibility. I think a win is entirely possible, but that's either because their QB is really bad or they beat themselves.

Hilarity.

If you were a Jets fan right now you would be talking about how they are going to have to have an amazing game to compete with the Chiefs in Arrowhead. Because you would be picking apart all of the crappy things (and there are a lot) have been doing and overlooking the Chiefs flaws.

milkman
12-19-2010, 04:15 PM
He'll need a playoff win at some point, not necessarily this year, IMO What he cannot be is the reason we lose a playoff game.

I'd be willing to start at just playing like a franchise QB, (making big plays at crucial times, carrying the team should the running game fail, willing his team to win, etc) in a game against a very good opponent.

I'm going to go back to how I define a franchise QB.

A franchise QB is the unquestioned leader of his team.

That comes from respect of teammates and how they respond to thier QB.

Until to day, I would not have called Cassel the unquestioned leader of this team but the way this team stepped up and started playing with purpose when Cassel showed heart, he assumed that mantle of leadership.

Comebacks are engineered by QBs who have the belief of the team.

QBs that can pick up a team and make plays when all else fails are the ones that have the team behind them.

We won't know until we see it, but I believe we now have a team and a QB with that kind of chemistry.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 04:15 PM
Are you going on record that you've never said some of us want him to fail just to be right?

If you are, and that's accurate, I apologize, but I have a pretty good memory.

No but again you are using a straw man....You claimed I said the VAST MAJORITY want him to fail...You also are bringing up something from a completely different thread..out of context...you implied I said that in this thread, also.

Shall I quote your lying ass?

Are you really this ****ign retarded ? You accuse me of using a straw man argument when I wasn't, then you proceed to use two straw man arguments in a row...Seriously you are a ****ing moron. Please look up straw man arguments on like wikipedia before you make yourself look like even more of an idiot...

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 04:16 PM
Hilarity.

If you were a Jets fan right now you would be talking about how they are going to have to have an amazing game to compete with the Chiefs in Arrowhead. Because you would be picking apart all of the crappy things (and there are a lot) have been doing and overlooking the Chiefs flaws.

Could the Jets beat us? Absolutely. But the idea that they are on some higher plane and we would need an amazing game just to play with them is silly.

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 04:16 PM
Unless you can see the entire play from Cassel's POV at real time you can't really say that.


It was a timing route and Bowe was supposed to come open on the cross.

From what I could tell watching it a few times Moeaki fucked up and brought the defender across in front of Bowe.

mlyonsd
12-19-2010, 04:17 PM
I'm going to go back to how I define a franchise QB.

A franchise QB is the unquestioned leader of his team.

That comes from respect of teammates and how they respond to thier QB.

Until to day, I would not have called Cassel the unquestioned leader of this team but the way this team stepped up and started playing with purpose when Cassel showed heart, he assumed that mantle of leadership.

Comebacks are engineered by QBs who have the belief of the team.

QBs that can pick up a team and make plays when all else fails are the ones that have the team behind them.

We won't know until we see it, but I believe we now have a team and a QB with that kind of chemistry.:bravo:

dirk digler
12-19-2010, 04:17 PM
It could be argue that the running game has lead this team to this point.

On a related note, as I sit here and watch Pittsburgh gash the Jets on the ground, I hope we draw the Jets should we make the playoffs.

That defense is getting worse by the week.

I agree. The Jets are probably the best matchup for us certainly better than facing the Chargers again

Short Leash Hootie
12-19-2010, 04:18 PM
if there is one team I would want to play at Arrowhead round 1 in the playoffs...

it's the Jets

they are more of a layup than the Titans next week

we would win by 10+

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 04:18 PM
C'mon.

Yes, Mo ran the wrong route.

But that doesn't mean that Cassel still has to deliver the ball to an area with 5 blue jerseys in it.

Bad on Mo, bad on Cassel.

That's debatable. But it's one bad play among a slew of good ones. There were about 2 or 3 passes that really got away from him. The running game was average at best. The pass protection was every bit as bad this week as it was last week, if not worse. The receivers literally dropped four catchable third down passes that killed drives.

Cassel put up 20 points in spite of the fact that his supporting cast laid a complete goose egg. This wasn't a game management game. I can't help but wonder what his production would have looked like if Bowe catches that first drive 3rd down and extends the drive. Or if Copper catches that easy pass and gets an extra 15+ yards on top of that. Or if Charles catches a relatively catchable pass and that drive extends.

Today was what we've all been waiting for. Cassel produced on offense in spite of a supporting cast that did everything they could to lose the game today.

Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 04:18 PM
**** all of that shit....Whoever says any of that stuff is going to extremes to either get a reaction or is just a moron.

The vast majority of people on CP (at least who actually made posts) were HIGHLY negative about Cassel and didn't think he would do shit this season.

They were wrong, period. No need to go any further than that...They were horribly horribly wrong about Cassel...

They can TRY to move the goal posts all they want to, because it makes them feel better....But deep down they know they didn't give him enough of a chance before they gave up on the kid. **** them...He is improving and has a ways to go, he proved he isn't garbage, he proved he is a pretty good QB, now lets see what else he can prove.
WTF


Note to self, a vast majority is nowhere NEAR an overwhelming majority, not even same ball park.

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 04:18 PM
if there is one team I would want to play at Arrowhead round 1 in the playoffs...

it's the Jets

they are more of a layup than the Titans next week

we would win by 10+

I hear they outmatch us in every phase of the game.

Could just be a rumor though. ROFL

Short Leash Hootie
12-19-2010, 04:18 PM
shitty QB with a faltering ground game...

sign me up

mlyonsd
12-19-2010, 04:19 PM
It was a timing route and Bowe was supposed to come open on the cross.

From what I could tell watching it a few times Moeaki ****ed up and brought the defender across in front of Bowe.

Right, and I don't know this for sure, but it is possible Cassel had already committed to throw the ball.

Bugeater
12-19-2010, 04:19 PM
for instance

Haley's decision to go for it 4th and 1 in our own territory...

we got it, and it changed the game

had we not gotten it...

he would have been verbally gang raped by the masses at ChiefsPlanet
If we had run the play we ran on 4th down on 3rd down we wouldn't have had to go for it on 4th down.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:20 PM
In complete agreement on that.

That's all the argument has ever been.

Yet people want to claim otherwise week after week.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:20 PM
I am not saying a single one of those things. You have a really annoying trait of creating your opponents position out of whole cloth to make your debate easier.

He's not the only one, for sure.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 04:20 PM
WTF


Note to self, a vast majority is nowhere NEAR an overwhelming majority, not even same ball park.

Wow...The thirrd straw man in a row...

Where does that say ANYTHING about wanting the guy to fail?

Are you a liar? Or just a complete ****ing retard?

I really hope people go back and look at the fucking bullshit you are trying to pull here....Maybe they already realize you are a douche bag, but this should prove it.

Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 04:23 PM
No but again you are using a straw man....You claimed I said the VAST MAJORITY want him to fail...You also are bringing up something from a completely different thread..out of context...you implied I said that in this thread, also.

Shall I quote your lying ass?

Are you really this ****ign retarded ? You accuse me of using a straw man argument when I wasn't, then you proceed to use two straw man arguments in a row...Seriously you are a ****ing moron. Please look up straw man arguments on like wikipedia before you make yourself look like even more of an idiot...

A straw man is not composed of the minute differentiation between a vast and an overwhelming majority. And it certainly isn't composed of bringing peoples remarks in mind numbingly similar previous discussion to address them.

It's more of like positing that the VAST majority of people had nothing good to say about him ever [without providing a time frame], then when someone disagrees, positing that the disagreer is saying that people were lauding him as a pending luminary [back in EFFING APRIL].

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:23 PM
That doesn't mean that the ball wouldn't have been completed.

Last year (and earlier this year) people were practically begging Cassel to throw the ball when receivers weren't "open". Had Moeaki not run the wrong route, that ball would have either been caught or incomplete.

You watched a different play than I did.

Big difference between throwing the ball to a WR covered 1-on-1, hoping to make a play, and throwing into a dangerous area like that.

There were 5 Rams in the area. How many would have been there had Mo not run the wrong route?

More than one, me thinks.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 04:23 PM
Could the Jets beat us? Absolutely. But the idea that they are on some higher plane and we would need an amazing game just to play with them is silly.

The Jets are a supremely talented team that often plays with their heads up their asses. It's a tall task to win a playoff game when you are that much less talented than the other team.

To win, we're going to have play mistake-free, consistently smart football and they'll have to play down to the competition. Probably a combo of both. Like I said, I'm not ruling either of those two out, especially at Arrowhead. But it's not a formula that's going to consistently get you playoff wins or that's going to make you favorites to win the game.

I actually think there's a decent chance of the Chiefs winning. But winning in spite of your talent isn't a formula that's going to carry the team through the playoffs. If the Jets play smart football and Sanchez doesn't shit the bed, the Chiefs are going to have a very tough uphill battle.

Short Leash Hootie
12-19-2010, 04:25 PM
it's good to see that one drafturbator is still hanging on to his Cassel hate...

Mecca died, Dane thinks he's a franchise QB and Hamas props him when necessary and stays out of everything else...

Stay strong OTWP!

Short Leash Hootie
12-19-2010, 04:26 PM
just think

had we drafted Sanchez we could be 4-10 right now and in line for better draft picks!

damnit scott!

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 04:26 PM
A straw man is not composed of the minute differentiation between a vast and an overwhelming majority.

Yes, ANOTHER fallacy. We aren't arguing about the difference between vast majority or overwhelming majority. Not once have I ever EVER stated that a majority (of any kind), or even a small majority , or even a a large percent of CP members WANTED Matt Cassel to fail.

You are a ****ing liar, a douche bag, and an idiot. Please, go back and read what I said ONE MORE TIME...

I dare you to point out ANYWHERE that I claimed a Majority of posters (any kind of majority) WANTED Cassel to fail.

****ing filthy liar.

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 04:26 PM
The Jets are a supremely talented team that often plays with their heads up their asses. It's a tall task to win a playoff game when you are that much less talented than the other team.

To win, we're going to have play mistake-free, consistently smart football and they'll have to play down to the competition. Probably a combo of both. Like I said, I'm not ruling either of those two out, especially at Arrowhead. But it's not a formula that's going to consistently get you playoff wins or that's going to make you favorites to win the game.

I actually think there's a decent chance of the Chiefs winning. But winning in spite of your talent isn't a formula that's going to carry the team through the playoffs. If the Jets play smart football and Sanchez doesn't shit the bed, the Chiefs are going to have a very tough uphill battle.

I think the talent difference is overblown.

On DL they have us beat, outside of that I am not sure.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:27 PM
it's good to see that one drafturbator is still hanging on to his Cassel hate...

Mecca died, Dane thinks he's a franchise QB and Hamas props him when necessary and stays out of everything else...

Stay strong OTWP!

Shocking you missed the posts today in which I praised him.

Personal attacks, FTW!

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 04:27 PM
That's all the argument has ever been.

Yet people want to claim otherwise week after week.

The argument you made in that post is a hell of a lot different than the one many have made throughout this thread that nothing short of a playoff win will change their opinion of him. I'm just anticipating that there will be plenty who blame a playoff loss on Cassel even if it required a superhuman effort to overcome the talent gaps.

Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 04:27 PM
Wow...The thirrd straw man in a row...

Where does that say ANYTHING about wanting the guy to fail?

Are you a liar? Or just a complete ****ing retard?

I really hope people go back and look at the fucking bullshit you are trying to pull here....Maybe they already realize you are a douche bag, but this should prove it.

You don't read so good. That post was in response to your indignation that I'd even suggest you'd use a phrase like overwhelming majority. And that was in reference to 'ever had anything at all nice to say about him'/'recognized the second coming back in April.'

It had NOTHING to do with the part about who supposedly wants Cassel to fail. I'm well aware that that contingent is referred to as 'some people' so we don't get into the messy matter of specific allegations that can be refuted or analyze in any way beyond snark./

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:28 PM
Welp, any legitimate conversation that was occurring here is over.

Hootie's here to make everything about him.

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2010, 04:28 PM
I think the talent difference is overblown.

On DL they have us beat, outside of that I am not sure.

WR they have us beat.

Short Leash Hootie
12-19-2010, 04:29 PM
WR they have us beat.

too bad their QB can't get any use out of them

Bugeater
12-19-2010, 04:30 PM
Yes, ANOTHER fallacy. We aren't arguing about the difference between vast majority or overwhelming majority. Not once have I ever EVER stated that a majority (of any kind), or even a LOT , or even a a large percent of CP members WANTED Matt Cassel to fail.

You are a ****ing liar, a douche bag, and an idiot. Please, go back and read what I said ONE MORE TIME...

I dare you to point out ANYWHERE that I claimed a Majority of posters (any kind of majority) WANTED Cassel to fail.

****ing filthy liar.
Do you check your blood pressure on a regular basis? Have you ever considered switching to decaf?

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2010, 04:31 PM
WR they have us beat.

They also have the best offensive line in the NFL, IMO

Basically, it comes down to whether Sanchez shits the bed or he doesn't. And even in games where he does shit the bed, they often find ways to win against good teams anyway.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2010, 04:31 PM
You watched a different play than I did.

Big difference between throwing the ball to a WR covered 1-on-1, hoping to make a play, and throwing into a dangerous area like that.

There were 5 Rams in the area. How many would have been there had Mo not run the wrong route?

More than one, me thinks.

Since I deleted the game from both of my DVR's and cannot re-watch, I'll concede your point because I only have my memory to go on.

But I remember thinking immediately after the ball had been intercepted, that in no way should the blame lie solely with Cassel.

milkman
12-19-2010, 04:31 PM
Welp, any legitimate conversation that was occurring here is over.

Hootie's here to make everything about him.

I'd suggest we ignore him.

It is good to have a debate with reasnoble posters.

You and I are disagreeing here, and we've somehow managed to keep it civil.

What the hell is wrong with us, anyway?

milkman
12-19-2010, 04:33 PM
Since I deleted the game from both of my DVR's and cannot re-watch, I'll concede your point because I only have my memory to go on. But I remember thinking immediately after the ball had been intercepted, that in no way should the blame lie solely with Cassel.

I do think it was timing route, but Cassel missed the fact that there were too many defenders in the area and should have checked off to another receiver.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 04:33 PM
Do you check your blood pressure on a regular basis? Have you ever considered switching to decaf?

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Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 04:33 PM
I'd suggest we ignore him.

It is good to have a debate with reasnoble posters.

You and I are disagreeing here, and we've somehow managed to keep it civil.

What the hell is wrong with us, anyway?

Mind if I join your reasonable discussion, so as to disengage with Peenblower?

Rage and retardation are a scary potent mix.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:34 PM
Since I deleted the game from both of my DVR's and cannot re-watch, I'll concede your point because I only have my memory to go on.

But I remember thinking immediately after the ball had been intercepted, that in no way should the blame lie solely with Cassel.

Where did I say it should be blamed solely on Cassel?

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 04:34 PM
Mind if I join your reasonable discussion, so as to disengage with Peenblower?

Rage and retardation are a scary potent mix.

Your 'reasonable' discussion involves putting words in my mouth....The conversation stops being reasonable when you quote me and make up lies about things I said.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:34 PM
I'd suggest we ignore him.

It is good to have a debate with reasnoble posters.

You and I are disagreeing here, and we've somehow managed to keep it civil.

What the hell is wrong with us, anyway?

.

Deberg_1990
12-19-2010, 04:35 PM
Is there any doubt now about what a complete chump Croyle is? Hopefully hes gone next year.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2010, 04:36 PM
Where did I say it should be blamed solely on Cassel?

Sorry Dude, I didn't mean to imply that's what you said, I was describing what I thought to myself at the time of the interception.

My apologies for the confusion.

Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 04:36 PM
Your 'reasonable' discussion involves putting words in my mouth....The conversation stops being reasonable when you quote me and make up lies about things I said.

Learn . . . To . . . Read

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2010, 04:36 PM
Thing is, for all the talk of perspective, the real perspective we're all gonna get is what shitty shitty opponents we've been bequeathed by our 2009 record, the state of our AFCW, and our NFCW division opponent.

We're the Boise State of the NFL right now, impressive looking at times, but a lot of wondering how we'll fare against quality opponents.

FTR< that goes for the whole team.

This pretty much sums it all up.

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2010, 04:38 PM
They also have the best offensive line in the NFL, IMO

Basically, it comes down to whether Sanchez shits the bed or he doesn't. And even in games where he does shit the bed, they often find ways to win against good teams anyway.

Jets generally play to their opponents level. Its their major quirk.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 04:39 PM
Learn . . . To . . . Read

Ok, dipshit..Here you go...

Hey Browneyes, you're fighting a strawman utterly of your own invention.

And the number to 'WANT' him to fail just to be right are miniscule, perhaps isolated to Mecca, certainly not the 'overwhelming majority


I never once said a majority of people WANT him to fail.

Now everyone can see what a ****ing liar you are.

Why don't YOU learn to read...Or at least apologize for being so ****ing stupid.

Baby Lee
12-19-2010, 04:39 PM
Is there any doubt now about what a complete chump Croyle is? Hopefully hes gone next year.

Thanks for the laugh, right in the middle of the umpteenth discussion of how long we give a project QB to develop when getting franchise money, apparently the new standard is once a season or so, against the best opposition we face, on the road.

Not to say that Croyle will one day be one of the all time greats or anything, just that I LOLed.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:39 PM
Sorry Dude, I didn't mean to imply that's what you said, I was describing what I thought to myself at the time of the interception.

My apologies for the confusion.

No problem. Just setting the record straight considering how many times words have been put in my mouth today.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:40 PM
This pretty much sums it all up.

Missed BL's post the first time around.

He's spot on.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Thanks for the laugh, right in the middle of the umpteenth discussion of how long we give a project QB to develop when getting franchise money, apparently the new standard is once a season or so, against the best opposition we face, on the road.

Not to say that Croyle will one day be one of the all time greats or anything, just that I LOLed.

LMAO

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Thing is, for all the talk of perspective, the real perspective we're all gonna get is what shitty shitty opponents we've been bequeathed by our 2009 record, the state of our AFCW, and our NFCW division opponent.

We're the Boise State of the NFL right now, impressive looking at times, but a lot of wondering how we'll fare against quality opponents.

FTR< that goes for the whole team.

But you know, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

There are a bunch of young guys that are on a winning NFL team for the first time. There are a bunch of guys learning what it feels like to become a team and sustain that winning feeling.

Just as winning the final game of last season propelled them forward to this season, winning the last three out of four games and making the playoffs should again propel them into next season.

keg in kc
12-19-2010, 04:42 PM
What the hell is wrong with us, anyway?That was a rhetorical question right?

Reerun_KC
12-19-2010, 04:43 PM
Such a great bitter sweet season....

Cassel becoming the unquestioned leader of the team.... Pioli and Haley building a solid foundation and looks like something very special.

GoChiefs wishing his dick was as big as Whitlocks and the haters of everything KC Chiefs grasping for anything they can to prove they are right...

Best year of Chiefs football in an enternity...

Chiefs=Good
12-19-2010, 04:43 PM
So is Chiefsplanet happy to have Cassel for the next 5 years now? Serious question.

LMAO LMAO LMAO

First time iv seen your new sig ROFL

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2010, 04:44 PM
But you know, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

There are a bunch of young guys that are on a winning NFL team for the first time. There are a bunch of guys learning what it feels like to become a team and sustain that winning feeling.

Just as winning the final game of last season propelled them forward to this season, winning the last three out of four games and making the playoffs should again propel them into next season.

I don't think winning in Denver last year had anything to do with the fact that young teams get better. It wasn't the power strip on Mario Kart that some how accelerated our rebuild, it was just indicative of both our progress and Denver's decline.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 04:44 PM
LMAO LMAO LMAO

First time iv seen your new sig ROFL

ROFLROFLROFL:thumb:

milkman
12-19-2010, 04:44 PM
Ok, dipshit..Here you go...



I never once said a majority of people WANT him to fail.

Now everyone can see what a ****ing liar you are.

Why don't YOU learn to read...Or at least apologize for being so ****ing stupid.

Perhaps instead of calling him a liar and other names, you could simply have shown him that he was misinteperting or misreading something you said.

You took the time to find that, why not take the time earlier to find the post he misconstued?

Why do so many arguments have to be so damn contentious?

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2010, 04:45 PM
I don't think winning in Denver last year had anything to do with the fact that young teams get better. It wasn't the power strip on Mario Kart that some how accelerated our rebuild, it was just indicative of both our progress and Denver's decline.

LMAO

Noted.

chiefsnorth
12-19-2010, 04:45 PM
Isn't it curious that the naysayers have been scarce this year after the first quarter of the season or so, except as the team was coming off a loss. Fascinating.

This summer it was all "Pioli is a failure" "worst draft ever" "Todd Failey" "Cassel is a franchise ruining suit machine". Post after post after post

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:45 PM
Perhaps instead of calling him a liar and other names, you could simply have shown him that he was misinteperting or misreading something you said.

You took the time to find that, why not take the time earlier to find the post he misconstued?

Why do so many arguments have to be so damn contentious?

*raises hand*

Because there are a lot of people here that argue against the poster, and not what they posted?

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 04:45 PM
Perhaps instead of calling him a liar and other names, you could simply have shown him that he was misinteperting or misreading something you said.

You took the time to find that, why not take the time earlier to find the post he misconstued?

Why do so many arguments have to be so damn contentious?

Dude, did you see how many times I tried to point it out? Yet he continued on with it? Seriously...come on...I can take a lot, but someone lying is utter BS...Especially when it has been pointed out....I think I pointed it out as a straw man argument SEVERAL times...

besides, the contentiousness was started with him referring to me as 'browneyes' or somehting.....out of the blue...

edit: the post he miscontrued is linked ... it literally does not mention ANYTHING about people wanting matt cassel to fail.(not one word)..Honestly I am not sure why he even said it...

Just Passin' By
12-19-2010, 04:46 PM
Thanks for the laugh, right in the middle of the umpteenth discussion of how long we give a project QB to develop when getting franchise money, apparently the new standard is once a season or so, against the best opposition we face, on the road.

Not to say that Croyle will one day be one of the all time greats or anything, just that I LOLed.

Cassel's been in the league only one year longer than Croyle, and wasn't starting in college. Cassel had never started a game prior to 2008, and had made a total of 39 throws in NFL games prior to that season. Croyle is winless in his starts, while Cassel won his very first game as a starter.

It's not really the same situation, but it's good that you can LOL.

Douche Baggins
12-19-2010, 04:46 PM
But you know, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
.

It's only a bad thing if Pioli fails to do his job this offseason.

We absolutely need, at minimum, two new quality starters on both sides of the ball or we'll miss the playoffs next year. The schedule is gonna be rough, especially if Oakland continues to get better.

milkman
12-19-2010, 04:47 PM
That was a rhetorical question right?

Shut up, or face the wrath of an old cantakerous midget.

keg in kc
12-19-2010, 04:47 PM
Isn't it curious that the naysayers have been scarce this year after the first quarter of the season or so, except as the team was coming off a loss. Fascinating.Mecca has been scarce. Everybody else has been around.

keg in kc
12-19-2010, 04:48 PM
Shut up, or face the wrath of an old cantakerous midget.Stop talking about my dick!

DeezNutz
12-19-2010, 04:48 PM
It's only a bad thing if Pioli fails to do his job this offseason.

We absolutely need, at minimum, two new quality starters on both sides of the ball or we'll miss the playoffs next year. The schedule is gonna be rough, especially if Oakland continues to get better.

NFC North next year, right? If so, the schedule won't be as difficult as many of us fear.

Marcellus
12-19-2010, 04:48 PM
*raises hand*

Because there are a lot of people here that argue against the poster, and not what they posted?

Amen brother.

milkman
12-19-2010, 04:48 PM
Dude, did you see how many times I tried to point it out? Yet he continued on with it? Seriously...come on...I can take a lot, but someone lying is utter BS...Especially when it has been pointed out....I think I pointed it out as a straw man argument SEVERAL times...

besides, the contentiousness was started with him referring to me as 'browneyes' or somehting.....out of the blue...

I'm suggesting that you should have qouted the post to show that you didn't say what he thinks you said.

milkman
12-19-2010, 04:49 PM
Stop talking about my dick!

I'm not a dick.
I'm an asshole.

dirk digler
12-19-2010, 04:49 PM
Mecca has been scarce. Everybody else has been around.

Has anyone heard from Mecca?

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2010, 04:51 PM
NFC North next year, right? If so, the schedule won't be as difficult as many of us fear.

AFC East as well. Plus the division champions.

Pawnmower
12-19-2010, 04:52 PM
I'm suggesting that you should have qouted the post to show that you didn't say what he thinks you said.

I believe I did that multiple times but here it is:


The vast majority of people on CP (at least who actually made posts) were HIGHLY negative about Cassel and didn't think he would do shit this season.


I am pretty sure that I linked back to this in our conversation ...Honestly I don't know how he got 'wanting' him to fail from that....Certainly I wasn't very positive about Cassel, but that doesn't mean I wanted him to fail....just the opposite.

OnTheWarpath58
12-19-2010, 04:52 PM
Has anyone heard from Mecca?

Nope.

And while I don't have the issue with Mecca that most do, things seem to be much better when both he and TheGuardian are MIA.

milkman
12-19-2010, 04:54 PM
Has anyone heard from Mecca?

Remember the scene at the end of the movie "Miracle on 34th Street" with the little girl in the car saying over and over "I believe, I believe" just before she sees the house that she wished for for Christmas?

I can almost see mecca lurking and saying "They can't make the playoffs, they can't make the playoffs" and if the Chiefs lose a game that costs them the playoffs, he'll be posting faster than the little girl running into the house.

|Zach|
12-19-2010, 04:55 PM
It warms my heart that everyone else finally sees what a douchebag mcgee mecca is.

dirk digler
12-19-2010, 04:57 PM
Nope.

And while I don't have the issue with Mecca that most do, things seem to be much better when both he and TheGuardian are MIA.

I thought you guys all had each other on speed dial? :p

Let me add Mecca is a million times better than Guardian

milkman
12-19-2010, 04:57 PM
It warms my heart that everyone else finally sees what a douchebag mcgee mecca is.

I actually have no issue with mecca, but I do have this sense that he just hates to be wrong.