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B_Ambuehl
12-20-2010, 09:40 AM
Against Seattle and Arizona?

From reading this board it sounds like Cassell just won the MVP trophy, but when I look at his stats for the last 2 football games this is what I find:

Denver: 17-31 196 1-0
St Louis: 15-29 184 1-1

That's barely 50% completion percentage against 2 shitty football teams WITH an outstanding running game behind him.

When I look at his record I don't think he's won a football game when he didn't get at least 140 rushing yards to support him.

The fact is Seattle and Arizona can make anybody look good. Hell, Alex Smith went for ~300 yds and 3 TDs last week vs Seattle.

At some point Casshole's gonna have to prove he can win a football game by himself without much of a running game against a good defense playing coverage. Opposing teams routinely sell out on the run when they face us. When you're only completing ~50% of your passes vs the kind of coverage he's been getting I think there are legitimate questions whether he's capable of doing that.

"But casshole is so tough and he's become a leader blah blah blah". ****ing trent dilfer was tough and a leader too. Doesn't make him a good QB. Hell, Tim Tebow's tough and a leader. Doesn't make him an NFL player.

Flame away.

loochy
12-20-2010, 09:42 AM
Dude HELLOOO!! Peter King says he's in the running for MVP. Never question the KING!

chiefsnorth
12-20-2010, 09:43 AM
Oh, there's no need to flame... This post is gay enough as it is.

Lzen
12-20-2010, 09:43 AM
While its true that Cassel still has a lot to prove, I believe that he has come a long way as a QB. One thing that you can't measure is his leadership. He has really stepped up in that regard this season. He is definitely maturing.

R Clark
12-20-2010, 09:44 AM
check out the drops

Rausch
12-20-2010, 09:45 AM
After today I'm no longer a doubter.

He's still Casshole, because he is, but to come back and play perhaps his best game all year?

I don't mean numbers. Fuck numbers. He did have one bad overthrow and the IG penalty was fucked, but for the most part he was on the mark and poised.

I also liked the run audible for huge gain....(OMG, the QB can audible again!?!!?)

B_Ambuehl
12-20-2010, 09:46 AM
If you really want a true measure of how good a player is just ask people that have to compete against him.

Do you think coaches, players, (and even fans) in our division fear Matt Cassell??

I've heard Norv talk about Cassell and this offense and there was no question he hopes KC keeps Cassell as long as possible.

Rausch
12-20-2010, 09:48 AM
While its true that Cassel still has a lot to prove, I believe that he has come a long way as a QB. One thing that you can't measure is his leadership. He has really stepped up in that regard this season. He is definitely maturing.

1/2 way through the season I didn't see $3it to make me think he'd make a Green-like turn around.

Well, in only year two, with MUCH less starting experience and a much worse offensive line, Casshole put up better numbers than Green.

I shouldn't say that I do believe but the last 5 or 6 games he's given us reason to believe...

loochy
12-20-2010, 09:48 AM
If you really want a true measure of how good a player is just ask people that have to compete against him.

Do you think coaches, players, (and even fans) in our division fear Matt Cassell??

I've heard Norv talk about Cassell and this offense and there was no question he hopes KC keeps Cassell as long as possible.

Is he related to this guy?

http://adamcarolla.com/SHBlog/wp-content/gallery/2010-05-07-shek/06-sam-cassell.jpg

Sofa King
12-20-2010, 09:49 AM
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm27/Boyd506/haters.jpg

R Clark
12-20-2010, 09:51 AM
I hope SD keeps Norv for a long long time.

Douche Baggins
12-20-2010, 09:52 AM
Stats are for losers, but people are definitely eating too much homer cheese.

This was all prophesied by Hamas.

Props on the thread, I can't do it alone.

morphius
12-20-2010, 09:54 AM
Anyone else get a kick out of fans that have so much invested into hating their own teams players?

Dave Lane
12-20-2010, 09:54 AM
Dude if you can't see the improvement in Cassel from the beginning of this year till now, you seriously need to stop watching football. He may improve more he may become Tom Brady lite, he might totally flame out, but give the guy props he's making huge strides.

Brock
12-20-2010, 09:54 AM
I've heard Norv talk about Cassell and this offense and there was no question he hopes KC keeps Cassell as long as possible.

Link.

Dave Lane
12-20-2010, 09:55 AM
Anyone else get a kick out of fans that have so much invested into hating their own teams players?

They are going to be right no matter how many times they have to move the goalposts.

Cave Johnson
12-20-2010, 09:55 AM
A solid run game makes a QB's job easier?

You don't say....

Rausch
12-20-2010, 09:56 AM
Link.

No $3it.

siberian khatru
12-20-2010, 09:57 AM
This is one of those deals where stats don't tell the whole story.

Drops aside in the Rams game ... what I've seen over the last several weeks include Cassel changing plays at the line of scrimmage, going through reads, having good pocket awareness, stepping into his throws, making key plays, consistently making good throws, not enduring long stretches of inaccuracy or dumbassery -- stuff he wasn't doing last year or the first half of this year. And then there are intangible things like showing fire, leadership, throwing blocks, etc.

You look at his QB ratings from earlier in the season and you see some nice numbers, but I remember him in some of those games having long stretches where he was playing poorly, then he'd finally find his groove and do well. It was the inconsistency that was his biggest obstacle. To me, since the 2nd half of the @Denver game, he has been consistently above average.

Earthling
12-20-2010, 09:59 AM
Against Seattle and Arizona?

From reading this board it sounds like Cassell just won the MVP trophy, but when I look at his stats for the last 2 football games this is what I find:

Denver: 17-31 196 1-0
St Louis: 15-29 184 1-1

That's barely 50% completion percentage against 2 shitty football teams WITH an outstanding running game behind him.

When I look at his record I don't think he's won a football game when he didn't get at least 140 rushing yards to support him.

The fact is Seattle and Arizona can make anybody look good. Hell, Alex Smith went for ~300 yds and 3 TDs last week vs Seattle.

At some point Casshole's gonna have to prove he can win a football game by himself without much of a running game against a good defense playing coverage. Opposing teams routinely sell out on the run when they face us. When you're only completing ~50% of your passes vs the kind of coverage he's been getting I think there are legitimate questions whether he's capable of doing that.

"But casshole is so tough and he's become a leader blah blah blah". ****ing trent dilfer was tough and a leader too. Doesn't make him a good QB. Hell, Tim Tebow's tough and a leader. Doesn't make him an NFL player.

Flame away.

Thank you for this post. I laughed my ass off. ROFLROFL

Los Pollos Hermanos
12-20-2010, 10:09 AM
If Cassel plays the last two games like he did at St L and against Denver he will finish with 3000 yards and TD to INT ratio of 5:1. I don't understand the hate. Because it's not always pretty?

Frosty
12-20-2010, 10:11 AM
having good pocket awareness

The way he is stepping up in the pocket is huge, IMO. It wasn't that long ago that he would run out to the side when he got pressure, which reduced his throwing options or resulted in sacks.

loochy
12-20-2010, 10:11 AM
If Cassel plays the last two games like he did at St L and against Denver he will finish with 3000 yards and TD to INT ratio of 5:1. I don't understand the hate. Because it's not always pretty?

I wouldn't say it's hate. We all (or at least most of us) really appreciate his work and we are really glad that he's stepped up. We just realize that, while good, Cassel is not the kind of QB that can pretty much win a game single handedly with minimal contribution elsewhere.

King_Chief_Fan
12-20-2010, 10:12 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=238725

Rausch
12-20-2010, 10:13 AM
If Cassel plays the last two games like he did at St L and against Denver he will finish with 3000 yards and TD to INT ratio of 5:1. I don't understand the hate. Because it's not always pretty?

I don't want a TV friendly QB, fantasy QB, or probowl/fan favorite QB.

I want a franchise QB.

I think this team is bringing him along the right way and after his last 5 weeks I finally believe there's reason for hope long term.




(I would still sign a decent vet/prospect to back him up though...)

B_Ambuehl
12-20-2010, 10:14 AM
Serious question for all the Cassel homers: What will it take for you to concede that he's not the guy?

My personal opinion is the guys ceiling just isn't high enough. He's improved but he's never played anywhere close to what he's paid and without the running game his stats would be about half of what they are. I can see this team getting back to Marty era chiefs with that type of QB with a solid defense. But you've seen that movie before, and you know how it ends.

Chiefnj2
12-20-2010, 10:15 AM
Cassel is not the kind of QB that can pretty much win a game single handedly with minimal contribution elsewhere.

I hate to break it to you, but those QB's don't exist in reality. It's a team sport.

Brock
12-20-2010, 10:16 AM
Serious question for all the Cassel homers: What will it take for you to concede that he's not the guy?

My personal opinion is the guys ceiling just isn't high enough. He's improved but he's never played anywhere close to what he's paid and without the running game his stats would be about half of what they are. I can see this team getting back to Marty era chiefs with that type of QB with a solid defense. But you've seen that movie before, and you know how it ends.

How about that link.

Dave Lane
12-20-2010, 10:17 AM
I wouldn't say it's hate. We all (or at least most of us) really appreciate his work and we are really glad that he's stepped up. We just realize that, while good, Cassel is not the kind of QB that can pretty much win a game single handedly with minimal contribution elsewhere.

Is that a requirement for a Chiefs QB? If so then we have only had one QB here that would be acceptable. This is arbritary and completely stupid standard to apply to any player.

Why not apply it to Charles or Flowers? Charles needs to score a TD on every play maybe 2, You can't get caught from behind and then whine you had cramps. What was it your time of the month? Pussy.

Thats what fans should say about Charles if they are going to force Cassel to live up to HOF standards before they can say, well he's OK.

Rausch
12-20-2010, 10:17 AM
Serious question for all the Cassel homers: What will it take for you to concede that he's not the guy?

My personal opinion is the guys ceiling just isn't high enough. He's improved but he's never played anywhere close to what he's paid and without the running game his stats would be about half of what they are. I can see this team getting back to Marty era chiefs with that type of QB with a solid defense. But you've seen that movie before, and you know how it ends.

1) He will never play up to his contract. Period.

2) He's progressing faster and with less/comparable WR help to what Green had his 2nd year.

3) It's not about having the best QB, it's about having the best team.

4) WE ARE CURRENTLY THE 3RD BEST FUCKING TEAM IN THE AFC!1!!!!!!

loochy
12-20-2010, 10:18 AM
I hate to break it to you, but those QB's don't exist in reality. It's a team sport.

Well I know a QB can't LITERALLY win a game by himself. :rolleyes:

Guys like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning (in previous seasons) pretty much can.


For the record, once again before I get attacked, I LIKE CASSEL AND I'M GLAD HE'S DOING WELL.

King_Chief_Fan
12-20-2010, 10:18 AM
Serious question for all the Cassel homers: What will it take for you to concede that he's not the guy?

My personal opinion is the guys ceiling just isn't high enough. He's improved but he's never played anywhere close to what he's paid and without the running game his stats would be about half of what they are. I can see this team getting back to Marty era chiefs with that type of QB with a solid defense. But you've seen that movie before, and you know how it ends.

then take an f'ing hike and go somewhere else.
He is here and your constant bitching and hating isn't going to get you anywhere.......really getting old.

Earthling
12-20-2010, 10:18 AM
Serious question for all the Cassel homers: What will it take for you to concede that he's not the guy?

When he stops improving or showing heart.

King_Chief_Fan
12-20-2010, 10:19 AM
Well I know a QB can't LITERALLY win a game by himself. :rolleyes:

Guys like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning (in previous seasons) pretty much can.

yes, they can throw it and catch it all by themselves...

Chiefnj2
12-20-2010, 10:21 AM
Well I know a QB can't LITERALLY win a game by himself. :rolleyes:

Guys like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning (in previous seasons) pretty much can.


For the record, once again before I get attacked, I LIKE CASSEL AND I'M GLAD HE'S DOING WELL.

Defense never played a role with all of Brady's success. And, Manning does really well with a troubled OL; he loves having to move around.

Norman Einstein
12-20-2010, 10:24 AM
Serious question for all the Cassel homers: What will it take for you to concede that he's not the guy?

My personal opinion is the guys ceiling just isn't high enough. He's improved but he's never played anywhere close to what he's paid and without the running game his stats would be about half of what they are. I can see this team getting back to Marty era chiefs with that type of QB with a solid defense. But you've seen that movie before, and you know how it ends.

You are driving in the dark there B. These aren't Cassel homers at all. We are all Chiefs Homers, or in my eyes "Real Chiefs Fans", something that you cannot claim, nor your buddy GoatCheese. You claim to only being realistic, well in reality KC in the second year of Haley and the first year of a new OC/DC combination the Chiefs are not only winning games but they are leading their division after being picked to be last. The QB has gotten better every game he's played in. Cassel may not be the Chiefs longest tenured QB but he is good and will continue to be seen as good by adding the tools needed to support the team.

I honestly doubt that you would consider Cassel a success if he won 3 SB's in a row. I know GoatCheese would probably have to go to a half-way house to be put on a safety watch if that were to happen.

thebrad84
12-20-2010, 10:24 AM
Anyone else get a kick out of fans that have so much invested into hating their own teams players?

It is strange isn't it? If Cassel haters (and Lord knows I was one of them) can't see that he has really stepped up his play and won over his teammates as the leader they are willing to battle for, then they have some sort of deep hatred for him and/or this football team that makes them blind to it. What's the point of being a "fan" if you can't support the team and it's players for what they are right now.

Douche Baggins
12-20-2010, 10:26 AM
Tom, you're incredible. I run a facebook page with 550 Chiefs fan subscribers. To call me anything less than a die hard, sickeningly obsessed fan is hilarious.

Norman Einstein
12-20-2010, 10:26 AM
Anyone else get a kick out of fans that have so much invested into hating their own teams players?

It is strange isn't it? If Cassel haters (and Lord knows I was one of them) can't see that he has really stepped up his play and won over his teammates as the leader they are willing to battle for, then they have some sort of deep hatred for him and/or this football team that makes them blind to it. What's the point of being a "fan" if you can't support the team and it's players for what they are right now.

I think that's the point. They aren't Chiefs fans, they are just trolls that get off on shitting on success.

Norman Einstein
12-20-2010, 10:28 AM
Tom, you're incredible. I run a facebook page with 550 Chiefs fan subscribers. To call me anything less than a die hard, sickeningly obsessed fan is hilarious.

Clayton, if you were a Chiefs fan you wouldn't be writing the crap you are writing. You 'd be expressing the positives because this team has turned from a POS (Herman's doing) into a contender. You aren't being realistic because if you were you would see growth. You are no better than whitlock and the Jeff George debacle.

Los Pollos Hermanos
12-20-2010, 10:43 AM
Well I know a QB can't LITERALLY win a game by himself. :rolleyes:

Guys like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning (in previous seasons) pretty much can.


For the record, once again before I get attacked, I LIKE CASSEL AND I'M GLAD HE'S DOING WELL.

Quaterbacks like Manning and Brady don't come along very often. They are Hall of Fame QBs and to expect that from Cassel or from any QB the Chiefs might obtain is setting the bar unrealistically high.

B_Ambuehl
12-20-2010, 10:48 AM
Is that a requirement for a Chiefs QB? If so then we have only had one QB here that would be acceptable. This is arbritary and completely stupid standard to apply to any player.

Why not apply it to Charles or Flowers? Charles needs to score a TD on every play maybe 2, You can't get caught from behind and then whine you had cramps. What was it your time of the month? Pussy.

Thats what fans should say about Charles if they are going to force Cassel to live up to HOF standards before they can say, well he's OK.

An NFL team is limited by what their QB can do. They're not really limited by their RB. Can you see Casshole winning a superbowl? If not he's not the guy. Look around the NFL at opposing teams. How many of them have a guy at QB you can see winning a superbowl with now or in the future. These are the guys I'd have on the list right now:

Rivers, Brees, Flacco, Romo, McNabb, Manning, Vick, Manning, Schaub, Rogers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Cutler

And these guys could potentially be on it one day:

Bradford, Stafford, Freeman, V. Young, McCoy, Matt Flynn

You might not agree with all those but if everbody put together there own list in general you'd have about half the NFL with top Qbs.

I see Casshole as a David Garrard type of Qb. Decent player but can you see Garrard winning a Superbowl? I can't. The main issue I have is I see this team going 3-4 years with Casshole before finally deciding he's not good enough and then having to spend another several years looking for someone who is. I see potential in guys like Freeman and even Colt McCoy that exceed Casshole's ceiling.

A few years ago people were perpetually bitching that we haven't drafted and developed a QB since Dawson. Well, we still haven't.

Think about what you would do if you were named GM of the Jacksonville Jaguars. Garrard is a good player but sooner or later you know you have to upgrade, don't you?

I use the example of Garrard because it eliminates emotional involvement, but it's the same situation here. I'd rather go ahead and deal with that problem ahead of time. If I were Pioli I wouldn't sit on our QB situation and I wouldn't pass on a guy who I think can be a future upgrade. The problem is I don't trust Pioli to do that and I'm afriad it'll hurt us in the future. Cassel has been the most coddled QB in NFL history and has already proven he can't exist with legit competition. After Brady's injury in New England the front office wouldn't bring in any veterans because they didn't want to rattle the Casshole. When Pioli got here he promptly ran Thigpen out of town likely because he didn't want Casshole to be under any pressure to perform. .

morphius
12-20-2010, 10:56 AM
Rivers, Brees, Flacco, Romo, McNabb, Manning, Vick, Manning, Schaub, Rogers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Cutler

Your list proves you are a grass is always greener kind of guy.

Mr. Laz
12-20-2010, 10:56 AM
Anyone else get a kick out of fans that have so much invested into hating their own teams players?
lol ... almost a direct correlation between the increase of Cassel's play and the decrease of the number of posts by some people.

don't worry though, his next bad game will bring an explosion of cackling chickens.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 10:59 AM
not only is he playing up to his contract right now...but he's exceeding it.

Seriously...enough with the contract. He's being paid like a slightly above average starter and right now he's playing like an above average starter.

So lets just get over his contract.

B_Ambuehl
12-20-2010, 11:00 AM
What's your list look like?

My point was that approximately half the NFL has franchise QBs or guys with the tools to develop into them. If you're not on that list you're not a serious contender and the only way to be a serious contender is to get on that list. Unfortunately, I haven't seen enough out of Cassell to put him on that list, and I don't think anyone who's truly being objective about things really has either.

chiefsnorth
12-20-2010, 11:03 AM
I think you and gifdouche are just building up doom threads, trying to set up for an "I told you so" moment once the end comes.

Nobody thinks this team will go to the super bowl, we all expect the season to end with a loss to someone.

I guess if you keep predicting the same thing forever, you will be right eventually. I expect we will see own-thread bumping and other bloviating that no one cares about.

Kind of sad.

The Bad Guy
12-20-2010, 11:04 AM
Just more proof that people will keep reaching for whatever they can to knock him down.

Plays a solid game after an operation just 2 and a half weeks later, team has a 9-4 record of games he's started, 25:5 TD/INT ratio, yet the "we want to be right crowd" keeps posting this nonsense.

I hated Cassel last year, hated him early this year, but he's won me over by playing good football. I'm sorry that some of you so desperately want to be right instead of enjoying some of the best football the Chiefs have played in over 6 years.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 11:05 AM
Just more proof that people will keep reaching for whatever they can to knock him down.

Plays a solid game after an operation just 2 and a half weeks later, team has a 9-4 record of games he's started, 25:5 TD/INT ratio, yet the "we want to be right crowd" keeps posting this nonsense.

I hated Cassel last year, hated him early this year, but he's won me over by playing good football. I'm sorry that some of you so desperately want to be right instead of enjoying some of the best football the Chiefs have played in over 6 years.

Spot on.

The Bad Guy
12-20-2010, 11:06 AM
I think you and gifdouche are just building up doom threads, trying to set up for an "I told you so" moment once the end comes.

Nobody thinks this team will go to the super bowl, we all expect the season to end with a loss to someone.

I guess if you keep predicting the same thing forever, you will be right eventually. I expect we will see own-thread bumping and other bloviating that no one cares about.

Kind of sad.

100% spot on.

B_Ambuehl and GoChiefs are the 2 biggest "look at me, look at me" morons to grace the planet. The most important thing to them? Being able to bump threads to say "see, I called it".

B_Ambuehl also was on the "Will Svitek is the best huge thing for the Chiefs" kick so take everything he says with a titanic size grain of salt.

Rausch
12-20-2010, 11:09 AM
Just more proof that people will keep reaching for whatever they can to knock him down.

Plays a solid game after an operation just 2 and a half weeks later, team has a 9-4 record of games he's started, 25:5 TD/INT ratio, yet the "we want to be right crowd" keeps posting this nonsense.

I hated Cassel last year, hated him early this year, but he's won me over by playing good football. I'm sorry that some of you so desperately want to be right instead of enjoying some of the best football the Chiefs have played in over 6 years.

Montana didn't always put out spectacular stats for us either.

Look, point is, how does the guy PLAY?

Fuck numbers and rating, is he on target and making plays?

This week, damned straight. And he got cut on less than 2 weeks ago.

He's a gamer. He might not be Payed-a-ton or Brett Favor-me but he's got us winning.

morphius
12-20-2010, 11:10 AM
What's your list look like?

My point was that approximately half the NFL has franchise QBs or guys with the tools to develop into them. If you're not on that list you're not a serious contender and the only way to be a serious contender is to get on that list. Unfortunately, I haven't seen enough out of Cassell to put him on that list, and I don't think anyone who's truly being objective about things really has either.

And a couple of them still have some stuff to prove...

Rivers, Brees, Flacco, <strike>Romo</strike>, <strike>McNabb</strike>, Manning, <strike>Vick</strike>, Manning, Schaub, Rogers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, <strike>Cutler


</strike>

Sannyasi
12-20-2010, 11:11 AM
What's your list look like?

My point was that approximately half the NFL has franchise QBs or guys with the tools to develop into them. If you're not on that list you're not a serious contender and the only way to be a serious contender is to get on that list. Unfortunately, I haven't seen enough out of Cassell to put him on that list, and I don't think anyone who's truly being objective about things really has either.

Well, to be fair, we certainly haven't seen enough to be sure that he can't make his way on to this list, either.

The Bad Guy
12-20-2010, 11:12 AM
Montana didn't always put out spectacular stats for us either.

Look, point is, how does the guy PLAY?

**** numbers and rating, is he on target and making plays?

This week, damned straight. And he got cut on less than 2 weeks ago.

He's a gamer. He might not be Payed-a-ton or Brett Favor-me but he's got us winning.

And this is all that matters. He's the QB of a 9-5 team that has to win 2 home games to win the division and host another home game.

The bar continually gets moved, and people want to throw around the franchise label for QBs like they grow on trees.

beach tribe
12-20-2010, 11:12 AM
Dude if you can't see the improvement in Cassel from the beginning of this year till now, you seriously need to stop watching football. He may improve more he may become Tom Brady lite, he might totally flame out, but give the guy props he's making huge strides.

This. If you can't see how far this guy has come, you're credibility is shit.
Does he have a lot to prove, yeah, he does. Has he done as much as could be asked of him, or any QB for that matter, in the second half of the season so far? I'd say so. His biggest problems: footwork, poise, pocket awareness, and what looked to me to just be plain fear, have improved dramatically.
Quit crying like bitches, and get used to it. Matt Cassel is your QB.

Norv said what? When? Link? Doubt it. And we all pray that SD keeps Norv forever.

Alex smith threw for 300 yards against SEA? WoW. BFD. He plays in what looks like one of the worst divisions football in history, and can't crack the top 20 in QB rating.
Cassel is 5th BTW. It's really not much of a comparison.

bobbything
12-20-2010, 11:14 AM
Matt Cassel has played very well in the last few months. And I'm not just talking about his stats. He's looked decisive, his throws are significantly more accurate than earlier this year, his awareness in the pocket has increased 10-fold. I hope he continues this type of play because the crow I'm eating thus far is tasting quite good.

He plays like this for his career as a Chief, I'm perfectly happy with it. Anyone who says otherwise must think that Peyton Manning's and Tom Brady's are a dime-a-dozen. I can name 8 quarterbacks in this league that are definitively better than Matt Cassel right now. That's it.

I'll take that any day of the week.

beach tribe
12-20-2010, 11:16 AM
Spot on.

Sure is. I'm loving this shit.

DenverDanChiefsFan
12-20-2010, 11:16 AM
How about that link.Just be patient. b is spreading his cheeks and reaching deep for the link. :D

Cave Johnson
12-20-2010, 11:18 AM
And a couple of them still have some stuff to prove...

Rivers, Brees, Flacco, <strike>Romo</strike>, <strike>McNabb</strike>, Manning, <strike>Vick</strike>, Manning, Schaub, Rogers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, <strike>Cutler


</strike>

I'd add Romo and Vick and take out Schaub, but that would still put Cassel at 11.

chiefzilla1501
12-20-2010, 11:19 AM
Against Seattle and Arizona?

From reading this board it sounds like Cassell just won the MVP trophy, but when I look at his stats for the last 2 football games this is what I find:

Denver: 17-31 196 1-0
St Louis: 15-29 184 1-1

That's barely 50% completion percentage against 2 shitty football teams WITH an outstanding running game behind him.

When I look at his record I don't think he's won a football game when he didn't get at least 140 rushing yards to support him.

The fact is Seattle and Arizona can make anybody look good. Hell, Alex Smith went for ~300 yds and 3 TDs last week vs Seattle.

At some point Casshole's gonna have to prove he can win a football game by himself without much of a running game against a good defense playing coverage. Opposing teams routinely sell out on the run when they face us. When you're only completing ~50% of your passes vs the kind of coverage he's been getting I think there are legitimate questions whether he's capable of doing that.

"But casshole is so tough and he's become a leader blah blah blah". ****ing trent dilfer was tough and a leader too. Doesn't make him a good QB. Hell, Tim Tebow's tough and a leader. Doesn't make him an NFL player.

Flame away.

Statistics aside, name one thing Cassel didn't do in St. Louis that you think he should have done? 3 of his incompletions were inexcusable drops. One between Bowe's numbers, one that hit McCluster in the ****ing facemask, and one that Copper let doink off his hands even though he probably could have had a good 20-30 yard gain out of it. If those passes are completions, he hits 60-65% of his passes and probably gets over 220 yards.

He didn't just lead yesterday. He was the only source of offense. Our receivers killed 3 drives. The pass protection was shitty, but he did a terrific job of sliding around in the pocket to buy time. And the running game wasn't very good yesterday.

I get that he needs to beat big competition. I'm not totally sold on him yet. But to pass off not just small but major improvements in pocket awareness, throwing accuracy, ability to read defenses and recognize the blitz... If he plays consistently like he did in St. Louis, then yes, I am actually believing he could be a long-term answer.

Uprights keep moving. I was critical of Cassel because I wanted to see pocket presence, accuracy, reading multiple receivers, and the leadership presence to not give up when the chips are down. He's showed them all in spades the last month or so, to hell with the statistics or strength of schedule. That's why myself and plenty of others are changing our tune.

B_Ambuehl
12-20-2010, 11:19 AM
So now you guys are trying to compare the Casshole to Joe Montana??

Hahahahah

I really have seen it all.

100% spot on.

B_Ambuehl and GoChiefs are the 2 biggest "look at me, look at me" morons to grace the planet. The most important thing to them? Being able to bump threads to say "see, I called it".

B_Ambuehl also was on the "Will Svitek is the best huge thing for the Chiefs" kick so take everything he says with a titanic size grain of salt.

Dude I've been here over 5 years and have a little over 1500 posts. Some of you ****ers post more in a day than I have in my career. If I was after popularity I certainly wouldn't be so anonymous. As for the Svitek thing, it was a tongue in cheek thing, which I said from day 1. People loved Rich Scanlon too, but nobody thought he was realistically a probowler. I liked Svitek because he was a big foreign goofball looking mother****er that loved to fight.

Norman Einstein
12-20-2010, 11:19 AM
What's your list look like?

My point was that approximately half the NFL has franchise QBs or guys with the tools to develop into them.

So Cassel does not have the tools to be a franchise QB? I guess you haven't seen much of his play through this season.

Brock
12-20-2010, 11:21 AM
Still waiting on that link, unless you want to concede you just made it up.

Norman Einstein
12-20-2010, 11:22 AM
Still waiting on that link, unless you want to concede you just made it up.

Don't hold your breath, it's probably not forthcoming.

He probably got that link stuck in his zipper.

T-post Tom
12-20-2010, 11:23 AM
If you really want a true measure of how good a player is just ask people that have to compete against him.

Do you think coaches, players, (and even fans) in our division fear Matt Cassell??

I've heard Norv talk about Cassell and this offense and there was no question he hopes KC keeps Cassell as long as possible.

Norv Turner? Norv "f'ng" Turner? And not even a direct quote? That's the best you got? :rolleyes:

T-post Tom
12-20-2010, 11:25 AM
Montana didn't always put out spectacular stats for us either.

Look, point is, how does the guy PLAY?

**** numbers and rating, is he on target and making plays?

This week, damned straight. And he got cut on less than 2 weeks ago.

He's a gamer. He might not be Payed-a-ton or Brett Favor-me but he's got us winning.

Yeppers. :thumb:

Bearcat
12-20-2010, 11:28 AM
Dude if you can't see the improvement in Cassel from the beginning of this year till now, you seriously need to stop watching football. He may improve more he may become Tom Brady lite, he might totally flame out, but give the guy props he's making huge strides.

Well, it's too bad some people refuse to see both sides of the argument. It seems like with some of the Cassel homers, you either have to believe Cassel has, without a doubt, proven he's the QB this franchise can count on in the long run, or you're just a hater... even though there are some legit reasons to not completely buy in, like wanting to see if he can win in the playoffs.

OTOH, it does seem like some of the haters refuse to give any credit, which is ridiculous, too... he's obviously making progress. And with some concerns, like accuracy, does it really matter who he's playing against? He couldn't hit the ocean from the beach last year, had as many INTs as TDs, and at one point was getting sacked five times per game. Yeah, becoming competent doesn't mean he can win playoff games, but at least credit the progress and see there's more hope for the future than there was at this point last season.

(ftr, I did have serious doubts last season because of fundamental problems that didn't seem to go away even when he had decent protection and open receivers.... and while he's come a long way, I'm still going to wait and see what he can do in the next couple of games and if they make it to the playoffs (and even though this place will implode, one good or bad game in the playoffs doesn't mean much in the big picture... consistency is the key to everything he does (and the team, coaches, etc.)))

morphius
12-20-2010, 11:29 AM
I'd add Romo and Vick and take out Schaub, but that would still put Cassel at 11.
As I said, some of these are even iffy, I haven't watched a lot of Schuab but he seems to generally have decent stats. Vick is going to have to prove it for more than a year. Romo, the playoff choke master, yeah, noooo thanks.

chiefzilla1501
12-20-2010, 11:37 AM
Well, it's too bad some people refuse to see both sides of the argument. It seems like with some of the Cassel homers, you either have to believe Cassel has, without a doubt, proven he's the QB this franchise can count on in the long run, or you're just a hater... even though there are some legit reasons to not completely buy in, like wanting to see if he can win in the playoffs.

OTOH, it does seem like some of the haters refuse to give any credit, which is ridiculous, too... he's obviously making progress. And with some concerns, like accuracy, does it really matter who he's playing against? He couldn't hit the ocean from the beach last year, had as many INTs as TDs, and at one point was getting sacked five times per game. Yeah, becoming competent doesn't mean he can win playoff games, but at least credit the progress and see there's more hope for the future than there was at this point last season.

(ftr, I did have serious doubts last season because of fundamental problems that didn't seem to go away even when he had decent protection and open receivers.... and while he's come a long way, I'm still going to wait and see what he can do in the next couple of games and if they make it to the playoffs (and even though this place will implode, one good or bad game in the playoffs doesn't mean much in the big picture... consistency is the key to everything he does (and the team, coaches, etc.)))

Nailed it

warrior
12-20-2010, 11:38 AM
If B AZZ can't supply a link he should be BANNED

Slainte
12-20-2010, 11:39 AM
I've heard Norv talk about Cassell and this offense and there was no question he hopes KC keeps Cassell as long as possible.

Not to pile on, but I'd really like to see it for myself where Turner said he hopes KC keeps Cassel...so link it up and please do so quickly, if you don't mind.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 11:42 AM
I've heard Norv talk about Cassell and this offense and there was no question he hopes KC keeps Cassell as long as possible.

link?

Just Passin' By
12-20-2010, 11:44 AM
Cassel is:

#5 in the NFL in QB rating
#7 in TD passes
#3 in TD%
#2 in fewest INTs
#2 in INT%
#9 in Sack%
#7 in fewest sacks (players ahead of him include Romo and Kerry Collins, who've played fewer games)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/leaders.htm

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2010&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=1&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&d-447263-n=1


That's a top 10 QB performance in 2010. All the bitching in the world isn't going to change that.

Rausch
12-20-2010, 11:47 AM
The bar continually gets moved, and people want to throw around the franchise label for QBs like they grow on trees.

And it should.

Only for reasons of comparison (we have the old NE coaches and GM.)
The first WHOLE year Brady started they ran first and played good defense.

They won ugly games.

They DID NOT put up any significant rushing or passing stats.

They WON A SUPER BOWL.

As each year went by they seemed to move the slider more from defense to offense and kept changing their game.

SHOCKER!

Managed to keep winning jewelry.

My point would be that the first 1/4 year and then whole season Brady was completely leashed. They ran the ball and completely depended on the defense.

Only later did Brady become Brady (when he had that confidence that he KNEW HE didn't have to make it happen.)

Years later he learned he COULD make it happen.

Smart coaching.

They let him figure that out in time, all on his own...

B_Ambuehl
12-20-2010, 11:47 AM
The link is somewhere on the Chargers site amongst thousands of others. I'm not gonna go digging for it. He didn't say directly that Cassell sux he was asked about Cassel and was PC about it but it was obvious he didn't fear him at all, as he shouldn't given Casshole's prior performances against the Chargers:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7254121&postcount=36

Don't believe me go post a poll on any chargers forum and ask if people fear Cassel. Ask Buck what he thinks.

Just Passin' By
12-20-2010, 11:50 AM
The link is somewhere on the Chargers site amongst thousands of others. I'm not gonna go digging for it. He didn't say directly that Cassell sux he was asked about Cassel and was PC about it but it was obvious he didn't fear him at all, as he shouldn't given Casshole's prior performances against the Chargers:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7254121&postcount=36

Don't believe me go post a poll on any chargers forum and ask if people fear Cassel. Ask Buck what he thinks.


So, basically, you were just making shit up.

JASONSAUTO
12-20-2010, 11:50 AM
Cassel is:

#5 in the NFL in QB rating
#7 in TD passes
#3 in TD%
#2 in fewest INTs
#2 in INT%
#9 in Sack%
#7 in fewest sacks (players ahead of him include Romo and Kerry Collins, who've played fewer games)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/leaders.htm

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2010&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=1&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&d-447263-n=1


That's a top 10 QB performance in 2010. All the bitching in the world isn't going to change that.

doesnt matter they will find reasons why he's not a top ten QB. fuck stats as long as they dont help the haters. except milkman. hes the only guy who actually doesnt use stats.

same thing as when he was with the pats and was rated top ten.

morphius
12-20-2010, 11:50 AM
Well, it's too bad some people refuse to see both sides of the argument. It seems like with some of the Cassel homers, you either have to believe Cassel has, without a doubt, proven he's the QB this franchise can count on in the long run, or you're just a hater... even though there are some legit reasons to not completely buy in, like wanting to see if he can win in the playoffs.

OTOH, it does seem like some of the haters refuse to give any credit, which is ridiculous, too... he's obviously making progress. And with some concerns, like accuracy, does it really matter who he's playing against? He couldn't hit the ocean from the beach last year, had as many INTs as TDs, and at one point was getting sacked five times per game. Yeah, becoming competent doesn't mean he can win playoff games, but at least credit the progress and see there's more hope for the future than there was at this point last season.

(ftr, I did have serious doubts last season because of fundamental problems that didn't seem to go away even when he had decent protection and open receivers.... and while he's come a long way, I'm still going to wait and see what he can do in the next couple of games and if they make it to the playoffs (and even though this place will implode, one good or bad game in the playoffs doesn't mean much in the big picture... consistency is the key to everything he does (and the team, coaches, etc.)))
I'd say for the record, I didn't like the trade for him, but I was also willing to give him a chance. I think he has moved his way up to the upper part of the tier 2 QB's. I'm impressed what the coaches have done to help him improve.

Simply Red
12-20-2010, 11:50 AM
I was really happy with Charles play, too. However, he ain't no Woodhead.

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 11:51 AM
oh so Buck and Norv Turner are the same person?

Slainte
12-20-2010, 11:52 AM
So, basically, you were just making shit up.

Not "basically".

In TOTALITY.

He totally made shit up.

Sweet Daddy Hate
12-20-2010, 11:55 AM
LEAVE MO' KESSEL ALONE!!!11111

Los Pollos Hermanos
12-20-2010, 11:55 AM
Don't believe me go post a poll on any chargers forum and ask if people fear Cassel. Ask Buck what he thinks.

Ask Buck what?

How is Cassel not considered a Franchise player?

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 11:55 AM
no he saw Norv at Best Buy and that's where he got the quote...so a link isn't available

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 11:56 AM
oh yeah well I heard Tom Cable say Cassel is the best QB he's seen this year so yeah

Short Leash Hootie
12-20-2010, 11:57 AM
if you don't believe me it's all over the Raiders forum just ask Ugly Duck

morphius
12-20-2010, 11:58 AM
And it should.

Only for reasons of comparison (we have the old NE coaches and GM.)
The first WHOLE year Brady started they ran first and played good defense.

They won ugly games.

They DID NOT put up any significant rushing or passing stats.

They WON A SUPER BOWL.

As each year went by they seemed to move the slider more from defense to offense and kept changing their game.

SHOCKER!

Managed to keep winning jewelry.

My point would be that the first 1/4 year and then whole season Brady was completely leashed. They ran the ball and completely depended on the defense.

Only later did Brady become Brady (when he had that confidence that he KNEW HE didn't have to make it happen.)

Years later he learned he COULD make it happen.

Smart coaching.

They let him figure that out in time, all on his own...
I think it is more of the people who say that they won't be happy until the QB does X, and then ignore the fact that they did what they wanted and start bitching about the QB failing to do Y...

Brock
12-20-2010, 12:12 PM
The link is somewhere on the Chargers site amongst thousands of others. I'm not gonna go digging for it. He didn't say directly that Cassell sux he was asked about Cassel and was PC about it but it was obvious he didn't fear him at all, as he shouldn't given Casshole's prior performances against the Chargers:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7254121&postcount=36

Don't believe me go post a poll on any chargers forum and ask if people fear Cassel. Ask Buck what he thinks.

So....you got nothing.

Norman Einstein
12-20-2010, 12:15 PM
So....you got nothing.

He got nothing, never had nothing never will have nothing.

Just Passin' By
12-20-2010, 12:16 PM
doesnt matter they will find reasons why he's not a top ten QB. **** stats as long as they dont help the haters. except milkman. hes the only guy who actually doesnt use stats.

same thing as when he was with the pats and was rated top ten.

The shame of it is that a lot of the problem with the honest skeptics is that they don't look at all quarterbacks equally. You see that with the "X good games" arguments and the like. Peyton Manning, for example, has played 4 games with a QB rating below 70 this year (Cassel has 3), and has his team with a worse record than the Chiefs. Shockingly (:rolleyes:), you're not seeing the haters saying anything like "Well, Cassel's been better than Manning this year, BUT..". Instead, it's somehow about Cassel not proving himself against teams he hasn't played.*


* Note: I'm not saying Cassel is as good as Manning. I'm noting performance this season, and the disparate ways these things are viewed.

King_Chief_Fan
12-20-2010, 12:16 PM
The link is somewhere on the Chargers site amongst thousands of others. I'm not gonna go digging for it. He didn't say directly that Cassell sux he was asked about Cassel and was PC about it but it was obvious he didn't fear him at all, as he shouldn't given Casshole's prior performances against the Chargers:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7254121&postcount=36

Don't believe me go post a poll on any chargers forum and ask if people fear Cassel. Ask Buck what he thinks.

like we are going to believe the other Charger fans.....ES

Slainte
12-20-2010, 12:25 PM
...

HIChief
12-20-2010, 10:37 PM
Against Seattle and Arizona?

From reading this board it sounds like Cassell just won the MVP trophy, but when I look at his stats for the last 2 football games this is what I find:

Denver: 17-31 196 1-0
St Louis: 15-29 184 1-1

That's barely 50% completion percentage against 2 shitty football teams WITH an outstanding running game behind him.

When I look at his record I don't think he's won a football game when he didn't get at least 140 rushing yards to support him.

The fact is Seattle and Arizona can make anybody look good. Hell, Alex Smith went for ~300 yds and 3 TDs last week vs Seattle.

At some point Casshole's gonna have to prove he can win a football game by himself without much of a running game against a good defense playing coverage. Opposing teams routinely sell out on the run when they face us. When you're only completing ~50% of your passes vs the kind of coverage he's been getting I think there are legitimate questions whether he's capable of doing that.

"But casshole is so tough and he's become a leader blah blah blah". ****ing trent dilfer was tough and a leader too. Doesn't make him a good QB. Hell, Tim Tebow's tough and a leader. Doesn't make him an NFL player.

Flame away.

You are a loser and have body odor!

RippedmyFlesh
12-20-2010, 10:50 PM
Against Seattle and Arizona?

From reading this board it sounds like Cassell just won the MVP trophy, but when I look at his stats for the last 2 football games this is what I find:

Denver: 17-31 196 1-0
St Louis: 15-29 184 1-1

That's barely 50% completion percentage against 2 shitty football teams WITH an outstanding running game behind him.

When I look at his record I don't think he's won a football game when he didn't get at least 140 rushing yards to support him.

The fact is Seattle and Arizona can make anybody look good. Hell, Alex Smith went for ~300 yds and 3 TDs last week vs Seattle.

At some point Casshole's gonna have to prove he can win a football game by himself without much of a running game against a good defense playing coverage. Opposing teams routinely sell out on the run when they face us. When you're only completing ~50% of your passes vs the kind of coverage he's been getting I think there are legitimate questions whether he's capable of doing that.

"But casshole is so tough and he's become a leader blah blah blah". ****ing trent dilfer was tough and a leader too. Doesn't make him a good QB. Hell, Tim Tebow's tough and a leader. Doesn't make him an NFL player.

Flame away.
keep looking at stats instead of watching games.
go suck norv's nob and rim rivers while you're at it.

movinbones
12-20-2010, 10:55 PM
I have not been a fan of Cassel... I was at this game and I think it was his best game yet... his stats and our drive charts would look better if we had a WR that could catch a ball on 3rd down.

His deep ball to Bowe was perfect and he had a lot of zip on his intermediate passes and nice touch on a couple of the short passes and screens.

Way to go Matt.. please keep progressing, not a fan but I'm starting to lean your way.

chuxtrux
12-20-2010, 10:58 PM
The link is somewhere on the Chargers site amongst thousands of others. I'm not gonna go digging for it. He didn't say directly that Cassell sux he was asked about Cassel and was PC about it but it was obvious he didn't fear him at all, as he shouldn't given Casshole's prior performances against the Chargers:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7254121&postcount=36

Don't believe me go post a poll on any chargers forum and ask if people fear Cassel. Ask Buck what he thinks.

This....this is your argument.

acesn8s
12-21-2010, 12:02 AM
I don't want a TV friendly QB, fantasy QB, or probowl/fan favorite QB.

I want a franchise QB.

I think this team is bringing him along the right way and after his last 5 weeks I finally believe there's reason for hope long term.




(I would still sign a decent vet/prospect to back him up though...)this

Micjones
12-21-2010, 12:15 AM
Sure, lining up against Seattle/Arizona is a recipe for plug-and-play QB success.
Ask the following:

[vs. SEA]
1. Phillip Rivers, 55% completion percentage, 2 picks, 80 QB Rating (SD Loss)
2. Jay Cutler, 44% completion percentage, 0 TD's, 69 QB Rating (CHI Loss)

[vs. ARI]
1. Drew Brees, more INT's than TD's (NO Loss)
2. Kyle Orton, under 50% completion percentage, 0 TD's 3 picks (DEN Loss)

Don't give Cassel any credit. Forget his season statistics while you're at it.
Higher SEASON QB Rating than:
Both Mannings, Brees, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Flacco, Orton, Schaub and Garrard.
Still not good enough. Brilliant...

acesn8s
12-21-2010, 12:21 AM
And this is all that matters. He's the QB of a 9-5 team that has to win 2 home games to win the division and host another home game.

The bar continually gets moved, and people want to throw around the franchise label for QBs like they grow on trees.If we win the next two games, it will be the second 11-5 team Cassel has commanded in 3 years.

RippedmyFlesh
12-21-2010, 12:28 AM
Sure, lining up against Seattle/Arizona is a recipe for plug-and-play QB success.
Ask the following:

[vs. SEA]
1. Phillip Rivers, 55% completion percentage, 2 picks, 80 QB Rating (SD Loss)
2. Jay Cutler, 44% completion percentage, 0 TD's, 69 QB Rating (CHI Loss)

[vs. ARI]
1. Drew Brees, more INT's than TD's (NO Loss)
2. Kyle Orton, under 50% completion percentage, 0 TD's 3 picks (DEN Loss)

Don't give Cassel any credit. Forget his season statistics while you're at it.
Higher SEASON QB Rating than:
Both Mannings, Brees, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Flacco, Orton, Schaub and Garrard.
Still not good enough. Brilliant...
After dropping an appendix and winning a regular season game maybe donating a kidney before a playoff win will be enough.

Pawnmower
12-21-2010, 01:01 AM
If you really want a true measure of how good a player is just ask people that have to compete against him.


Using your logic, let's find out what the CP community thinks of you....Lets really get a 'true measure' of your value here...

Howsa bout I start?

You make me want to take a shit on your keyboard and then force you to type an apology letter to every single person who clicked on this thread. Not a solid, well formed shit you would be like happy with after it is done. One of those shits that doesn't smell right and is about half liquid and half solid and you aren't completely satisfied when its over.

veist
12-21-2010, 01:05 AM
An NFL team is limited by what their QB can do.

1. Trent Dilfer
2. Mark Rypien
3. Jim McMahon
4. Brad Johnson

All have SB rings as a starting QB so time to bust a new a crappy argument.

Earthling
12-21-2010, 01:27 AM
1. Trent Dilfer
2. Mark Rypien
3. Jim McMahon
4. Brad Johnson

All have SB rings as a starting QB so time to bust a new a crappy argument.

Yep :thumb:

johnny961
12-21-2010, 01:39 AM
1. Trent Dilfer
2. Mark Rypien
3. Jim McMahon
4. Brad Johnson

All have SB rings as a starting QB so time to bust a new a crappy argument.

Good response to a lame argument. Rep.

BCD
12-21-2010, 02:46 AM
Amb should go ahead and die in a fire. This clown has always been a fucking douchebag.

Congrats, Amb. 10+ yrs on this board and I've never added anyone to my ignore list. You're the 1st, asswipe! Kill yourself, maggot.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-21-2010, 07:36 AM
The original post mentions the last two games that Cassel has played.

Interesting material. Even more interesting, the one that Cassel didn't.

To act as if any QB could come in and do well in this system because of the run game is ridiculous. The offense, led by Croyle, had 70 total yards.

While I would never tout Cassel as MVP... when you look at the disparity between this team WITH Cassel, and this team WITHOUT Cassel..... there, in fact, may be no single player that is more important to their team.

Now, one would have to have more than one game to assert that confidently. However, it certainly looks that way.

Chief Roundup
12-21-2010, 07:51 AM
Haven't read thread just an observation.
Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees have no real running game.
Seems you either run the ball with an average to slightly above QB or you barely run the ball and throw it all over the field anymore.

Norman Einstein
12-21-2010, 07:53 AM
If we win the next two games, it will be the second 11-5 team Cassel has commanded in 3 years.

Now now. You can't start using facts to bolster your pov.

It just isn't argue worthy if you do!

All things considered I'm already pumped for next year, no matter what happens this year I'd say we have a chance to show continuing improvement all around as a team and a franchise.

Back to CHIEFS dominance in the AFC/NFL.

Sully
12-21-2010, 08:01 AM
1. Trent Dilfer
2. Mark Rypien
3. Jim McMahon
4. Brad Johnson

All have SB rings as a starting QB so time to bust a new a crappy argument.

The argument has never been "average QBs have never won the Super Bowl."
It has always been, "though an average QB could win a SB, a great one can have you in the hunt year-in and year-out."

So I guess it's all about what you want for the franchise. While everyone would be ecstatic with a SB win, wouldn't it be infinitely better to have a team equipped to at least be in the SB conversation every year?


Sent from my Teddy Ruxpin using Tapatalk

Norman Einstein
12-21-2010, 08:04 AM
The argument has never been "average QBs have never won the Super Bowl."
It has always been, "though an average QB could win a SB, a great one can have you in the hunt year-in and year-out."

So I guess it's all about what you want for the franchise. While everyone would be ecstatic with a SB win, wouldn't it be infinitely better to have a team equipped to at least be in the SB conversation every year?


Sent from my Teddy Ruxpin using Tapatalk

You don't see Cassel developing into that QB that would give us the probability of being a contender for a few years to come?

Mr. Arrowhead
12-21-2010, 08:05 AM
the whole team wants to play better for cassel because they see him giving it his all.

Norman Einstein
12-21-2010, 08:10 AM
the whole team wants to play better for cassel because they see him giving it his all.

Of course this is just my opinion but that shows that Cassel is a leader and those on the team know that and are behind him 100%. That's good news for down the road.

Amnorix
12-21-2010, 08:37 AM
What's your list look like?

My point was that approximately half the NFL has franchise QBs or guys with the tools to develop into them. If you're not on that list you're not a serious contender and the only way to be a serious contender is to get on that list. Unfortunately, I haven't seen enough out of Cassell to put him on that list, and I don't think anyone who's truly being objective about things really has either.

But you've seen enough of Matt Flynn? Seriously, WTF?

Amnorix
12-21-2010, 08:42 AM
Haven't read thread just an observation.
Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees have no real running game.
Seems you either run the ball with an average to slightly above QB or you barely run the ball and throw it all over the field anymore.

Your point is valid, but your evidence is shaky, at least for the Patriots. They are tied for 11th in NFL with 4.3 yards per carry and 15th with 112 yards/game.

BJGE doesn't excite anyone, but he's an Antowain Smith plowhorse who almost never loses yards, and Woody is Woody. Sure, it's not Charles and Jones, but it's adequate.

But your point is valid, again. The NFL is no longer a run first league, or "run to set up the pass". But if you have NO running game, you do have problems.

milkman
12-21-2010, 08:51 AM
I've seen Cassel make huge strides this year from a mechanical standpoint, and he's just emrging.

To suggest he's reached his ceiling is ridiculous.
It's possible that he has, but highly unlikely, because it's well documented that he puts in the work to improve.

That being said, the thing that has me sold on Cassel right now is that we see a team that believes in him.

That's well over half the battle.

He grown into the clear leader of this team.

Norman Einstein
12-21-2010, 09:08 AM
He grown into the clear leader of this team.

Not to dismiss any of what you said before the last sentence, but this is the one big thing that has an impact on the team.

Cassel is going to be fine and barring injury just may be the QB that we need for the immediate future 2-4 years or more, IMO.

veist
12-21-2010, 09:26 AM
The argument has never been "average QBs have never won the Super Bowl."
It has always been, "though an average QB could win a SB, a great one can have you in the hunt year-in and year-out."

So I guess it's all about what you want for the franchise. While everyone would be ecstatic with a SB win, wouldn't it be infinitely better to have a team equipped to at least be in the SB conversation every year?


Sent from my Teddy Ruxpin using Tapatalk

The best of those guys is barely average, I mean seriously the best guy on that list is fuggin Brad Johnson, and Brad Johnson was mediocre outside of that SB season.

TRR
12-21-2010, 09:58 AM
I'm not sure I've ever rooted for a KC player to fail. I know there were several posters that wished Trent Green would fail because they didn't like the trade, etc. I just can't figure out why.

I hated the Tyson Jackson pick, but I don't want to see him fail. Look at his contract? We're bitching about Cassel's? And speaking of the contract or money...who cares? Cassel didn't ask for that contract nor should he be judged on it or have to live up to it. Blame Pioli if you don't like it...Not Cassel.

Right now, Cassel is playing with confidence, going through reads, showing good footwork and pocket awareness. His accuracy has improved and mistakes have reduced.

...But by all means, keep rooting against him Chiefs fans??
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman
12-21-2010, 10:18 AM
I'm not sure I've ever rooted for a KC player to fail. I know there were several posters that wished Trent Green would fail because they didn't like the trade, etc. I just can't figure out why.

I hated the Tyson Jackson pick, but I don't want to see him fail. Look at his contract? We're bitching about Cassel's? And speaking of the contract or money...who cares? Cassel didn't ask for that contract nor should he be judged on it or have to live up to it. Blame Pioli if you don't like it...Not Cassel.

Right now, Cassel is playing with confidence, going through reads, showing good footwork and pocket awareness. His accuracy has improved and mistakes have reduced.

...But by all means, keep rooting against him Chiefs fans??
Posted via Mobile Device

Well technically, Cassel or his agent, had to ask for more than what Cassel got in his contract.

milkman
12-21-2010, 10:25 AM
I'm not sure I've ever rooted for a KC player to fail. I know there were several posters that wished Trent Green would fail because they didn't like the trade, etc. I just can't figure out why.

I hated that trade, but I never rooted for Green to fail.

I grew to respect Green, though I never had faith that he could make plays consistently late in games.

But I hated that trade for the very same reason I hated the trade for Montana.

Age.

I don't need to necessarily draft a QB, but I want a young QB that has the potential to lead this team for more than 6 or 7 years.

I'm watching Matt Cassel grow into the position, and now believe he has the chance to be that guy for the next 6-8 years.

But damn, I hope to hell that we someday find and groom a guy that can be that guy for 10-12-13 years.

Commit2Excellence
12-21-2010, 10:55 AM
The original post mentions the last two games that Cassel has played.

Interesting material. Even more interesting, the one that Cassel didn't.

To act as if any QB could come in and do well in this system because of the run game is ridiculous. The offense, led by Croyle, had 70 total yards.

While I would never tout Cassel as MVP... when you look at the disparity between this team WITH Cassel, and this team WITHOUT Cassel..... there, in fact, may be no single player that is more important to their team.

Now, one would have to have more than one game to assert that confidently. However, it certainly looks that way.

Yeah, except Cassel played as bad as Brody did last 3 times he faced the Chargers. Cassell is getting rep points based on things he hasn't done, not on what he has. Typically when that happens a huge step back is sure to come.

chiefzilla1501
12-21-2010, 11:10 AM
Yeah, except Cassel played as bad as Brody did last 3 times he faced the Chargers. Cassell is getting rep points based on things he hasn't done, not on what he has. Typically when that happens a huge step back is sure to come.

No, that's not true.

Cassel is getting credit for things he's doing today that he wasn't doing even in convincing wins (like Jacksonville and SF). The pocket awareness to slide around when the rush is coming, he's stepping into his throws instead of nervously throwing off his back foot, looking at multiple receivers instead of staring down the primary read, and whereas in the past he would become visibly frustrated when things weren't going well, against St. Louis he took complete charge and got his team to rally around him.

Those aren't the kinds of things that are going to disappear just because he's playing San Diego. I don't know how he would have done against San Diego. But you can't deny that those things above are proof of SIGNIFICANT improvement, regardless of strength of opponent.

beach tribe
12-21-2010, 11:11 AM
Yeah, except Cassel played as bad as Brody did last 3 times he faced the Chargers. Cassell is getting rep points based on things he hasn't done, not on what he has. Typically when that happens a huge step back is sure to come.

This is BS. The guy has the 5th QB rating in the league, 25-5 TDs to INts, and has been the 2nd most efficient QB in his last 5 games, behind only Brady. Stop talking out of your ass, and BTW, I cannot wait till you guys step foot in Arrowhead a cpl weeks from now. Have fun watching us play our home game in the POs.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 11:16 AM
Yeah, except Cassel played as bad as Brody did last 3 times he faced the Chargers. Cassell is getting rep points based on things he hasn't done, not on what he has. Typically when that happens a huge step back is sure to come.

Cassel's put up Pro Bowl/borderline Pro Bowl numbers in 2 of his 3 seasons as a starter. I assume you're giving him plenty of "rep points" as a result.

Commit2Excellence
12-21-2010, 11:57 AM
Let me clarify: Cassell is getting bonus points based on how bad Croyle and the team looked against SD. The chiefs looked so bad everybody says, "Oh wow Cassel really must be good if the team looks this bad". He comes back into the lineup, the chiefs play better, and all the sudden in the minds of many Cassel's an MVP candidate. However, if you take a closer look at things:

A: The one time he did face the Chargers this year Cassel looked damn near as bad as Croyle did (10-25 ~60 yds)

B: He has improved but still in his last 2 starts Cassel has been very pedestrian at around 50% and < 200 yds passing.

C: Winning football games tends to make people overlook weaknesses.

To put another way, he hasn't arrived yet. If Cassel continues to play the way he did against Denver and St. Louis he will be nothing more than a mediocre QB. His improvements need to continue before he's worthy of the praise he's getting.

If he plays the next 2 games exaactly the same way he played vs Denver and St. Louis and the Chiefs lose I imagine the majority of this board will likely be ready to throw him under the bus again.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 12:01 PM
Let me clarify: Cassell is getting bonus points based on how bad Croyle and the team looked against SD. The chiefs looked so bad everybody says, "Oh wow Cassel really must be good if the team looks this bad". He comes back into the lineup, the chiefs play better, and all the sudden in the minds of many Cassel's an MVP candidate. However, if you take a closer look at things:

A: The one time he did face the Chargers this year Cassel looked damn near as bad as Croyle did (10-25 ~60 yds)

B: He has improved but still in his last 2 starts Cassel has been very pedestrian at around 50% and < 200 yds passing.

C: Winning football games tends to make people overlook weaknesses.

To put another way, he hasn't arrived yet. If Cassel continues to play the way he did against Denver and St. Louis he will be nothing more than a mediocre QB. His improvements need to continue before he's worthy of the praise he's getting.

If he plays the next 2 games exaactly the same way he played vs Denver and St. Louis I imagine the majority of this board will likely be ready to throw him under the bus again.

Why do you people who want to bash Cassel cite to the similarities while ignoring the differences? The first SD game was a matchup in horrible weather with the Chiefs sitting on a lead. The second game was a matchup in great weather, with the Chiefs falling behind early.

That fundamentally changes what's required from your quarterback in the current version of Weis' system.


To put it another way, quit posting bullshit.

|Zach|
12-21-2010, 12:01 PM
Let me clarify: Cassell is getting bonus points based on how bad Croyle and the team looked against SD. The chiefs looked so bad everybody says, "Oh wow Cassel really must be good if the team looks this bad". He comes back into the lineup, the chiefs play better, and all the sudden in the minds of many Cassel's an MVP candidate. However, if you take a closer look at things:

A: The one time he did face the Chargers this year Cassel looked damn near as bad as Croyle did (10-25 ~60 yds)

B: He has improved but still in his last 2 starts Cassel has been very pedestrian at around 50% and < 200 yds passing.

C: Winning football games tends to make people overlook weaknesses.

To put another way, he hasn't arrived yet. If Cassel continues to play the way he did against Denver and St. Louis he will be nothing more than a mediocre QB. His improvements need to continue before he's worthy of the praise he's getting.

If he plays the next 2 games exaactly the same way he played vs Denver and St. Louis and the Chiefs lose I imagine the majority of this board will likely be ready to throw him under the bus again.

So,

Your point is based on him doing something he hasn't done?

Sully
12-21-2010, 12:07 PM
I've seen Cassel make huge strides this year from a mechanical standpoint, and he's just emrging.

To suggest he's reached his ceiling is ridiculous.
It's possible that he has, but highly unlikely, because it's well documented that he puts in the work to improve.

That being said, the thing that has me sold on Cassel right now is that we see a team that believes in him.

That's well over half the battle.

He grown into the clear leader of this team.

I think it was you who made the argument many times that when he's good, it's because he believes in himself. Not to pick nits, but I think his play over the second half of the season has far more to do with growth in that area than the team's belief in him.
But that doesn't discount the importance of the team believing he'll get the job done.


Sent from my Teddy Ruxpin using Tapatalk

Sully
12-21-2010, 12:11 PM
I'm not sure I've ever rooted for a KC player to fail. I know there were several posters that wished Trent Green would fail because they didn't like the trade, etc. I just can't figure out why.

I hated the Tyson Jackson pick, but I don't want to see him fail. Look at his contract? We're bitching about Cassel's? And speaking of the contract or money...who cares? Cassel didn't ask for that contract nor should he be judged on it or have to live up to it. Blame Pioli if you don't like it...Not Cassel.

Right now, Cassel is playing with confidence, going through reads, showing good footwork and pocket awareness. His accuracy has improved and mistakes have reduced.

...But by all means, keep rooting against him Chiefs fans??
Posted via Mobile Device

And this is the entire problem with the argument. Somehow people like you have deluded yourselves into thinking that, somehow, people so passionate about this team have decided to "root against" a part they think is bad, rather than passionately point out that they wish their team was better at that position.
It's akin to saying a guy who wants/needs new performance tires is rooting for a flat.


Sent from my Teddy Ruxpin using Tapatalk

Bearcat
12-21-2010, 12:14 PM
He comes back into the lineup, the chiefs play better, and all the sudden in the minds of many Cassel's an MVP candidate. However, if you take a closer look at things:


You were obviously either not around in mid-November, or you weren't paying attention. This kind of talk has been going on since at least the game at Mile High, where some Cassel supporters started piecing together the highly efficient game against Jacksonville, a drive against Buffalo, and a half of football against Denver's prevent, so they could state their case that Cassel was on his way.



A: The one time he did face the Chargers this year Cassel looked damn near as bad as Croyle did (10-25 ~60 yds)

B: He has improved but still in his last 2 starts Cassel has been very pedestrian at around 50% and < 200 yds passing.

C: Winning football games tends to make people overlook weaknesses.

To put another way, he hasn't arrived yet. If Cassel continues to play the way he did against Denver and St. Louis he will be nothing more than a mediocre QB. His improvements need to continue before he's worthy of the praise he's getting.

If he plays the next 2 games exaactly the same way he played vs Denver and St. Louis and the Chiefs lose I imagine the majority of this board will likely be ready to throw him under the bus again.

No one (not many, anyway) seemed to bring up point 'A' when they lost to the Chargers... everyone was really hung up on putting it all on Croyle.

I agree with the rest of it... no, he hasn't arrived, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't get any credit for improving so much (not that you're saying he shouldn't).

And re: "the majority of this board will likely be ready to throw him under the bus again"... maybe you have been paying attention after all. :hmmm:

milkman
12-21-2010, 12:16 PM
I think it was you who made the argument many times that when he's good, it's because he believes in himself. Not to pick nits, but I think his play over the second half of the season has far more to do with growth in that area than the team's belief in him.
But that doesn't discount the importance of the team believing he'll get the job done.


Sent from my Teddy Ruxpin using Tapatalk

You're right, I did say that when Cassel plays with confidence, he plays much better.

That is true for just about anyone actually, but really highlighted by Cassel's inconsistency in his time as a Chief.

However, that has nothing to do with how the team responds to him.

Earlier in the year, the team looked like a ship without a rudder, but they now seem to have found direction, and that is because they now appear to have a leade to follow.

King_Chief_Fan
12-21-2010, 12:21 PM
Let me clarify: Cassell is getting bonus points based on how bad Croyle and the team looked against SD. The chiefs looked so bad everybody says, "Oh wow Cassel really must be good if the team looks this bad". He comes back into the lineup, the chiefs play better, and all the sudden in the minds of many Cassel's an MVP candidate. However, if you take a closer look at things:

A: The one time he did face the Chargers this year Cassel looked damn near as bad as Croyle did (10-25 ~60 yds)

B: He has improved but still in his last 2 starts Cassel has been very pedestrian at around 50% and < 200 yds passing.

C: Winning football games tends to make people overlook weaknesses.

To put another way, he hasn't arrived yet. If Cassel continues to play the way he did against Denver and St. Louis he will be nothing more than a mediocre QB. His improvements need to continue before he's worthy of the praise he's getting.

If he plays the next 2 games exaactly the same way he played vs Denver and St. Louis and the Chiefs lose I imagine the majority of this board will likely be ready to throw him under the bus again.

Winning football games is what it is all about. The team has confidence in him...that counts. I was at the game on the KC side in the lower bowl near the 50. I watched Cassel on and off the field. It was very evident that the Chiefs were going to win that game. You could feel the confidence by watching him and the rest of the team's interacation.
Get over your hate for the guy.

Norman Einstein
12-21-2010, 12:23 PM
Winning football games is what it is all about. The team has confidence in him...that counts. I was at the game on the KC side in the lower bowl near the 50. I watched Cassel on and off the field. It was very evident that the Chiefs were going to win that game. You could feel the confidence by watching him and the rest of the team's interacation.
Get over your hate for the guy.

I think c2e is still butt hurt over JaMarcus being cut.

TRR
12-21-2010, 12:27 PM
And this is the entire problem with the argument. Somehow people like you have deluded yourselves into thinking that, somehow, people so passionate about this team have decided to "root against" a part they think is bad, rather than passionately point out that they wish their team was better at that position.
It's akin to saying a guy who wants/needs new performance tires is rooting for a flat.


Sent from my Teddy Ruxpin using Tapatalk

You can spin it however you want. The bottom line is that posters on here would relish in the fact that KC didn't make the playoffs because Cassel played poorly these last 2 games.

You either root for him or against him. There is no in between.
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman
12-21-2010, 12:33 PM
You either root for him or against him. There is no in between.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think you are completely wrong about that.

Sully
12-21-2010, 12:38 PM
You can spin it however you want. The bottom line is that posters on here would relish in the fact that KC didn't make the playoffs because Cassel played poorly these last 2 games.

You either root for him or against him. There is no in between.
Posted via Mobile Device

You couldn't be more wrong.
But that's your right. There are tons of people who don't care if they are wrong about stuff.


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Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 12:51 PM
You couldn't be more wrong.
But that's your right. There are tons of people who don't care if they are wrong about stuff.


Sent from my Teddy Ruxpin using Tapatalk

Ehh.... seems pretty clear that there are posters who are more emotionally invested in Cassel failing than they are in the team doing well. Whether you take that as them actually rooting against the team in order to buttress their position, or just being complete douchebags towards a specific player, is largely a matter of individual interpretation.

milkman
12-21-2010, 12:55 PM
Ehh.... seems pretty clear that there are posters who are more emotionally invested in Cassel failing than they are in the team doing well.

I think there are a number of posters who still need to see something from Cassel in a critical situation against superior teams to really buy into him.

I think that's legitimate.

Hound333
12-21-2010, 01:02 PM
It is strange isn't it? If Cassel haters (and Lord knows I was one of them) can't see that he has really stepped up his play and won over his teammates as the leader they are willing to battle for, then they have some sort of deep hatred for him and/or this football team that makes them blind to it. What's the point of being a "fan" if you can't support the team and it's players for what they are right now.

Not all of us. I was one of the biggest Cassel haters last year and at the start of this year. I have changed my mind. Well no not really, Cassel changed my mind for me.

With Matt it was never about numbers for me. I don't need a QB that throws for 300 yards every game. I needed a QB that didn't look like he was about to crap himself anytime his first WR wasn't open. I needed a QB that didn't lock onto that one WR and throw into triple coverage (did this alot last year). I needed a QB that would step into this throws and feel the pressure around him.

Matt is all of those things now. He is moving around in the pocket. Rarely throws into bad situations, steps into the throws (anyone else notice his accuracy went up as soon as he started doing this) and finds the open guy. He is doing everything I wanted him to do at this point. He's not Tom Brady but then very few guys are. Everyone that is like TB can be found in Canton. Those guys don't come along often.

Sweet Daddy Hate
12-21-2010, 01:03 PM
I think there are a number of posters who still need to see something from Cassel in a critical situation against superior teams to really buy into him.

I think that's legitimate.

Sanity!

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 01:04 PM
I think there are a number of posters who still need to see something from Cassel in a critical situation against superior teams to really buy into him.

I think that's legitimate.

While I think your premise is reasonable, albeit flawed (Pitt from last year comes quickly to mind), I don't think it extends to all the bashers. There's no doubt in my mind that there are Chiefs fans posting here who would get more satisfaction from a Cassel int against the Raiders that cost the Chiefs a postseason spot than they'd get from a Cassel TD strike that resulted in a come-from-behind victory and locked up the division title. They are just that invested in the notion of Cassel failing.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-21-2010, 01:05 PM
You can spin it however you want. The bottom line is that posters on here would relish in the fact that KC didn't make the playoffs because Cassel played poorly these last 2 games.

You either root for him or against him. There is no in between.
Posted via Mobile Device

Bullfuck.

|Zach|
12-21-2010, 01:05 PM
If you are dedicated in finding flaws in something you will. Especially in sports.

I can spot clients that are dedicated to being unhappy from miles away. I don't need their business.

Sully
12-21-2010, 01:06 PM
Ehh.... seems pretty clear that there are posters who are more emotionally invested in Cassel failing than they are in the team doing well. Whether you take that as them actually rooting against the team in order to buttress their position, or just being complete douchebags towards a specific player, is largely a matter of individual interpretation.

The only emotional investment I see is wanting the Chiefs to do the best... And the anger that goes along with their belief that they've settled for second beat at the QB position.

Why would anyone get bent out of shape about Cassel, TJ, or any player if they weren't invested in seeing thus team do well?


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milkman
12-21-2010, 01:09 PM
While I think your premise is reasonable, albeit flawed (Pitt from last year comes quickly to mind), I don't think it extends to all the bashers. There's no doubt in my mind that there are Chiefs fans posting here who would get more satisfaction from a Cassel int against the Raiders that cost the Chiefs a postseason spot than they'd get from a Cassel TD strike that resulted in a come-from-behind victory and locked up the division title. They are just that invested in the notion of Cassel failing.

I gave Cassel props for that Pittsburg game, but that isn't really the kind of critical situation we are talking about here.

And I think there there is probably small group of people who are that are invested in the notion of failing.

But I don't think it's going to be more than a handful, at most, and I believe that the majority of the posters that I believe that TRR is referring to will come around when Cassel meets the requirements I'm talking about.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 01:09 PM
The only emotional investment I see is wanting the Chiefs to do the best... And the anger that goes along with their belief that they've settled for second beat at the QB position.

Why would anyone get bent out of shape about Cassel, TJ, or any player if they weren't invested in seeing thus team do well?


Sent from my Teddy Ruxpin using Tapatalk

Sorry but, if you can't see it, you're blind. The team is 9-5 and leading the division, just 2 years removed from a 2 win season, and there's still a significant portion of this board bitching about Cassel at every opportunity.

That's not "wanting the Chiefs to do the best".

|Zach|
12-21-2010, 01:10 PM
As far as MC goes I wasn't that unhappy with him last year. There were a number of reasons he got a pass from me last year but the big one being that the fucking offense was thrown out before the season even started.

I expected more from him with a full training camp with this new coaching staff and just the same year under his belt that the whole organization was enjoying.

I was pretty disappointed at the start. Not throwing in the towel but being disappointed that I was seeing the same kind of stuff I did last year. However, there would be flashes of not just good passes but great passes. You could tell it was getting there. I also thought it was weird how he would seem to not do well with out established offense but when we were in 2 min situations he would zip the ball down just fine. Like that hurry up mentality made things more simplified.

Somewhere along the season I remember seeing improvement and feeling like he graduated from "bad to inconsistent" he would show us things but enough to where you felt comfortable to deliver. Then he went from "inconsistent to good" you could just see this was a guy who was making passes and leading this team. It was soooo nice to see.

If you aren't sold yet then oh welllll.

Saul Good
12-21-2010, 01:12 PM
You can spin it however you want. The bottom line is that posters on here would relish in the fact that KC didn't make the playoffs because Cassel played poorly these last 2 games.

I disagree with this, but I think you are close. People don't want the Chiefs to lose. Those who have the most invested in him failing want us to win in spite of him when we win and lose because of him when we lose. They would rather have the former, but the last thing they want is for Cassel to play great and have us still lose.

I'd say it goes down like this in terms of what the bashers want:

1. Chiefs win and Cassel plays poorly (We win, and I'm right!)



2a. Chiefs win and Cassel plays well (I'm wrong, but at least we won)
2b. Chiefs lose and Cassel plays poorly (I told you so!)



3. Chiefs lose and Cassel plays well (FML)

Saul Good
12-21-2010, 01:15 PM
But I don't think it's going to be more than a handful, at most, and I believe that the majority of the posters that I believe that TRR is referring to will come around when Cassel meets the requirements I'm talking about.

Don't you think that, in many cases, he has met their initial requirements only to watch as the goalposts are whisked away?

Chiefnj2
12-21-2010, 01:15 PM
TRR is correct. Some people come out from under their bridges when Cassel plays poorly.

|Zach|
12-21-2010, 01:17 PM
Don't you think that, in many cases, he has met their initial requirements only to watch as the goalposts are whisked away?

Exactly. If you held MC or this team up to that golden standard then so be it but all these people who preseason used all this hyperbole about what they would do or think if the Chiefs won 7 or 9 games (one members actually saying he would suck his own cock) only to sit back and find more holes to pick when it all comes true then screw you. lol

|Zach|
12-21-2010, 01:19 PM
I disagree with this, but I think you are close. People don't want the Chiefs to lose. Those who have the most invested in him failing want us to win in spite of him when we win and lose because of him when we lose. They would rather have the former, but the last thing they want is for Cassel to play great and have us still lose.

I'd say it goes down like this in terms of what the bashers want:

1. Chiefs win and Cassel plays poorly (We win, and I'm right!)



2a. Chiefs win and Cassel plays well (I'm wrong, but at least we won)
2b. Chiefs lose and Cassel plays poorly (I told you so!)



3. Chiefs lose and Cassel plays well (FML)

Spot on. I think there is literally nobody who wants the Chiefs to lose. Maybe Mecca...but aside from Mecca nobody.

milkman
12-21-2010, 01:19 PM
Don't you think that, in many cases, he has met their initial requirements only to watch as the goalposts are whisked away?

I don't know.

I do know that a many of these guys have asked me many times since Cassel was traded for and I posted my observations and thoughts from watching '08 Patriot replays on NFL Network over the summer if I thought he was a guy that could lead this team to wins in the playoffs?

Until the last month, my answer was no.

I do believe otherwise now.

DeezNutz
12-21-2010, 01:21 PM
There's a lot of gray area, even for those like myself who admitted to hating the acquisition and his play for the majority of his time in KC. I'm sorry, when you post a QB rating of 14.6, and then claim you graded out "perfectly," I won't say positive things.

But even during this period, if he performed well, made a good throw, etc., I said so (usually in game threads).

So, back to the initial question. Again, this is too simplistic. Did I react rashly to the initial acquisition? Perhaps. Did I react rashly to his on-field play? I think a strong argument can be made for "no."

What might be my biggest mistake is that I claimed that "presence" and "football instincts" cannot be learned at the highest level. If Cassel continues his current trajectory, he will definitely prove me wrong.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 01:21 PM
I gave Cassel props for that Pittsburg game, but that isn't really the kind of critical situation we are talking about here.

Well, hasn't one of the problems with the Cassel/Anti-Cassel debates been the moving goalposts? That Steelers game was an overtime win against a better opponent. Cassel brought the team back from a 17-7 deficit. That's succeeding in a critical situation against a better team, yet you're now essentially saying "But that's not enough". And that's even though you're one of the people who've warmed to him a bit. Some of the other posters will still be complaining if he wins 2 Super Bowls, because he'll have failed to cure cancer and all STDs while he was at it.

And I think there there is probably small group of people who are that are invested in the notion of failing.

I think some of it is people who have legitimate reservations about Cassel's ability to consistently get it done against top competition. That's an open question, and a legitimate thing to watch moving forward. I do, though, think it's pretty shitty of them to take that position and keep bashing the QB at the same time, since he can only play the teams he lines up against.

But I don't think it's going to be more than a handful, at most, and I believe that the majority of the posters that I believe that TRR is referring to will come around when Cassel meets the requirements I'm talking about.

I agree with this. Unfortunately, that handful made the board almost unbearable for much of last year, and the beginning of this season. The good news is that their voices are a lot less influential now.

milkman
12-21-2010, 01:24 PM
Well, hasn't one of the problems with the Cassel/Anti-Cassel debates been the moving goalposts? That Steelers game was an overtime win against a better opponent. Cassel brought the team back from a 17-7 deficit. That's succeeding in a critical situation against a better team, yet you're now essentially saying "But that's not enough".

The Chiefs weren't playing for anything but pride at that time.

It just doesn't register as critical by my definition.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 01:27 PM
It just doesn't register as critical by my definition.

And therein lies the escape clause. Mind you, I'm not calling you out as one who's specifically moved the posts. I'm just noting the way the goalposts get moved.

Sully
12-21-2010, 01:28 PM
Sorry but, if you can't see it, you're blind. The team is 9-5 and leading the division, just 2 years removed from a 2 win season, and there's still a significant portion of this board bitching about Cassel at every opportunity.

That's not "wanting the Chiefs to do the best".

Got it.
Wanting better from our QB is NOT wanting the best.
Makes sense.


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milkman
12-21-2010, 01:30 PM
And therein lies the escape clause. Mind you, I'm not calling you out as one who's specifically moved the posts. I'm just noting the way the goalposts get moved.

Escape clause?

Enlighten me.

How does a team with nothing more than draft position to play for find itself in a critical situation?

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 01:32 PM
Got it.
Wanting better from our QB is NOT wanting the best.
Makes sense.


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JFC


I'm a Patriots fan, and I still want better from Brady. I'd expect that about 99.99999999% of Colts fans feel that way about Manning. That doesn't translate to bashing the QB over every incompletion. You're trying to make them the same thing.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 01:35 PM
Escape clause?

Enlighten me.

How does a team with nothing more than draft position to play for find itself in a critical situation?

You think playing superior teams and coming from behind to win isn't going to lend itself to being looked at as having had critical situations just because one team is out of the playoff hunt. I know from playing in games like that at a moderately high level, as well as from talking with professional-level athletes, that your position is often not the mindset of the players involved.

Saul Good
12-21-2010, 01:36 PM
Got it.
Wanting better from our QB is NOT wanting the best.
Makes sense.


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It's fine to want better play from our QB. It's another thing to refuse to acknowledge it when we get better play. The Chiefs have plenty of holes. Starting QB is not one of them. We are getting good play from a QB that is trending upward. This is beyond what anyone expected to see a year ago.

Sully
12-21-2010, 01:36 PM
And therein lies the escape clause. Mind you, I'm not calling you out as one who's specifically moved the posts. I'm just noting the way the goalposts get moved.

There was a thread several weeks ago. I think it was titled "I know everyone hates Cassel."
If that's the right thread, many bashers put forth the things they would need to see from Cassel to accept him as the answer.
All this talk of "moving goalposts," you'd think it'd be easy to pull up that thread and use specifics.

You see... This has become every bit as idiotic as a political argument.
Why?
Because it has turned into people constantly saying, "You believe _____," rather than listening to people say what they believe.
It's much easier to build statement than to actually deal with the real-life facts.


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Saul Good
12-21-2010, 01:40 PM
There was a thread several weeks ago. I think it was titled "I know everyone hates Cassel."
If that's the right thread, many bashers put forth the things they would need to see from Cassel to accept him as the answer.
All this talk of "moving goalposts," you'd think it'd be easy to pull up that thread and use specifics.

You see... This has become every bit as idiotic as a political argument.
Why?
Because it has turned into people constantly saying, "You believe _____," rather than listening to people say what they believe.
It's much easier to build statement than to actually deal with the real-life facts.


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That's when the goalposts really started moving. Go back to last year or the offseason or even the first 5 weeks of this season to see what people were saying about him before he started playing well.

Sully
12-21-2010, 01:44 PM
That's when the goalposts really started moving. Go back to last year or the offseason or even the first 5 weeks of this season to see what people were saying about him before he started playing well.

Since each "basher" has their own set of goalposts, and since you are confident in their movement, can you point to specific posters and their movement?
Can you tell me where to look specifically?
I'm confident of mine, but I'm sure you have some specifics in mind to turn me around on this "they root for a flat tire!" theory.


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Saul Good
12-21-2010, 01:55 PM
Since each "basher" has their own set of goalposts, and since you are confident in their movement, can you point to specific posters and their movement?
Can you tell me where to look specifically?
I'm confident of mine, but I'm sure you have some specifics in mind to turn me around on this "they root for a flat tire!" theory.


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I don't save these things for posterity, but there are plenty immortalized in signatures across the board.

Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)

But let me give you a microcosm for why I think he's yet another worthless sack of shit in a long line of worthless sacks of shit that we've had at the QB position:

3rd and about 7. Time in the pocket. No heavy pressure. Cassel shits himself and literally runs into a sack instead of staying strong in the pocket.

This is the anti Trent Green. That sumbitch was impervious to danger in the pocket. Not surprisingly, who lit up Cassel for his stupidity?

All of this goes back to my claim that Cassel possesses modest talent (at best) and extremely limited football instincts. And you're not going to teach or develop the latter at the professional level.

Cassel is now one of the least sacked QBs in the NFL, and it sure looks like he's developed these instincts at the professional level.

milkman
12-21-2010, 01:59 PM
You think playing superior teams and coming from behind to win isn't going to lend itself to being looked at as having had critical situations just because one team is out of the playoff hunt. I know from playing in games like that at a moderately high level, as well as from talking with professional-level athletes, that your position is often not the mindset of the players involved.

So let me see if I understand this.

The pressure to win what is essentially a meaningless game is about equal to the pressure to win a playoff game, or one with huge playoff implications?

That about right?

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 02:02 PM
Since each "basher" has their own set of goalposts, and since you are confident in their movement, can you point to specific posters and their movement?
Can you tell me where to look specifically?
I'm confident of mine, but I'm sure you have some specifics in mind to turn me around on this "they root for a flat tire!" theory.


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"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.


"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick


"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season


"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers


"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?


If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.

milkman
12-21-2010, 02:04 PM
"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.


"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick


"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season


"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers


"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?


If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.

I bash Manning all the time.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 02:06 PM
So let me see if I understand this.

The pressure to win what is essentially a meaningless game is about equal to the pressure to win a playoff game, or one with huge playoff implications?

That about right?

Pressure is not determined by a bunch of people in the stands or watching on television. Furthermore, what a spectator may consider meaningless will not necessarily be the same as what a player considers meaningless.

Sully
12-21-2010, 02:10 PM
I don't save these things for posterity, but there are plenty immortalized in signatures across the board.

Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)



Cassel is now one of the least sacked QBs in the NFL, and it sure looks like he's developed these instincts at the professional level.

I'm reading this on Tapatalk, so I can't see who typed that quote or, apparently, how that poster moved the goalposts.
Help a brutha out, will ya?


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Sully
12-21-2010, 02:11 PM
"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.


"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick


"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season


"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers


"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?


If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.

Those are great.
Now how have those posters moved their goalposts?


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Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 02:12 PM
Those are great.
Now how have those posters moved their goalposts?


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:spock:

Moving the goalposts, also known as raising the bar, is an informal logically fallacious argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

OnTheWarpath58
12-21-2010, 02:14 PM
Milkman and Sully deserve the Congressional Medal of Jesus for dealing with TRR, Saul and JPB in this thread.

This notion that there are people that want Cassel to fail is rooted in ignorance, and is nothing more than an attack on posters they don't like. Nothing more.

There's not a single poster here, with the exception of Mecca - who's gone MIA - that hasn't praised Cassel when he's done well.

Me, Deez, Hamas, Dane, etc. Every one of us have pointed to his improvement in the pocket. His improved decision making. His leadership. His toughness.

There's no doubt he's improved. None.

But for some of us, we'd like to see that improvement manifest itself against an elite opponent/in a critical situation before claiming he's an upper echelon QB. He's improved. Is he good enough to win a championship? Remains to be seen IMO. Playing well in a win against a team like Baltimore or Pittsburgh would at least show me that he's capable of doing so.

He's improved more than I thought he was capable of, so for that specifically, serve me some crow appetizer if you like.

Bearcat
12-21-2010, 02:14 PM
"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.


"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick


"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season


"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers


"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?


Everything in this post that's outside of quote marks is at least not relevant and at most full retard, and I really hope those aren't actual arguments from anyone, ever.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 02:16 PM
Everything in this post that's outside of quote marks is at least not relevant and at most full retard, and I really hope those aren't actual arguments from anyone, ever.

If you really think that, you're an idiot.

Sully
12-21-2010, 02:16 PM
:spock:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

I understand what it means.
Have the specific posters you quoted changed their stance since Cassel reached all their checkmarks?


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DeezNutz
12-21-2010, 02:22 PM
Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)
.

I moved goalposts? If not, then this post doesn't support your claim.

If anything, I've noted that I could be wrong. In the context of that specific game and up until that point in Cassel's development, that post was 100 percent correct.

Sweet Daddy Hate
12-21-2010, 02:27 PM
Milkman and Sully deserve the Congressional Medal of Jesus for dealing with TRR, Saul and JPB in this thread.

This notion that there are people that want Cassel to fail is rooted in ignorance, and is nothing more than an attack on posters they don't like. Nothing more.

There's not a single poster here, with the exception of Mecca - who's gone MIA - that hasn't praised Cassel when he's done well.

Me, Deez, Hamas, Dane, etc. Every one of us have pointed to his improvement in the pocket. His improved decision making. His leadership. His toughness.

There's no doubt he's improved. None.

But for some of us, we'd like to see that improvement manifest itself against an elite opponent/in a critical situation before claiming he's an upper echelon QB. He's improved. Is he good enough to win a championship? Remains to be seen IMO. Playing well in a win against a team like Baltimore or Pittsburgh would at least show me that he's capable of doing so.

He's improved more than I thought he was capable of, so for that specifically, serve me some crow appetizer if you like.

ROFL

And...

This.

Bearcat
12-21-2010, 02:31 PM
If you really think that, you're an idiot.

"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.



Cassel won 11 games in NE.... that completely misses the point of the argument. I'm no basher, but the argument is they want Cassel to put a game on his shoulders. Quickly looking at his time in NE, I'd say you could make the argument that he did so 2-3 times, with a supporting cast that helped Brady to a ~120 QB rating the previous year.



"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick

.


Bledsoe? Are you ****ing kidding me? "That team" has nothing to do with Drew Bledsoe... what the hell?



"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season



Yeah, the Chiefs have 9 wins, but that's completely missing the point. Seeing "it" over the course of the season means consistency out of Cassel. Have we seen that all season? No. (I don't think this was an expectation coming into a season, it's simply saying "before I crown his ass, I'd like to see him play at a high level on a consistent basis").



"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers




The Rams? LMAO




"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?
.


Again, missing the point... it's not "but, he hasn't won in the playoffs," it's "before I crown his ass, let's see him win meaningful games," and what better game than a playoff game?

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 02:39 PM
I understand what it means.
Have the specific posters you quoted changed their stance since Cassel reached all their checkmarks?


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I didn't say those were direct quotes. I noted that threads have gone that way and created an example. However, if you can't figure out some of the people I'm referring to, I don't know what to tell you.

It's not as if they're all in hiding. There's supposedly only one of those.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 02:41 PM
Cassel won 11 games in NE.... that completely misses the point of the argument. I'm no basher, but the argument is they want Cassel to put a game on his shoulders. Quickly looking at his time in NE, I'd say you could make the argument that he did so 2-3 times, with a supporting cast that helped Brady to a ~120 QB rating the previous year.




Bledsoe? Are you ****ing kidding me? "That team" has nothing to do with Drew Bledsoe... what the hell?




Yeah, the Chiefs have 9 wins, but that's completely missing the point. Seeing "it" over the course of the season means consistency out of Cassel. Have we seen that all season? No. (I don't think this was an expectation coming into a season, it's simply saying "before I crown his ass, I'd like to see him play at a high level on a consistent basis").





The Rams? LMAO





Again, missing the point... it's not "but, he hasn't won in the playoffs," it's "before I crown his ass, let's see him win meaningful games," and what better game than a playoff game?

The one missing the point is you. I noted that threads have gone like that. They have.

"If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.". I didn't make claims of that being verbatim. Quite the opposite, noting the "same vein".

As an aside, though, every single attempted rebuttal you made here is idiotic. It's as if you're trying to be a fool.

Sully
12-21-2010, 02:46 PM
I didn't say those were direct quotes. I noted that threads have gone that way and created an example. However, if you can't figure out some of the people I'm referring to, I don't know what to tell you.

It's not as if they're all in hiding. There's supposedly only one of those.

So, if I understand corretly (and please correct me if I don't), every basher (even though each has his own set of "goalposts" for Cassel) has moved the goalposts.
However, you don't know which ones said what, and aren't sure where their goalposts began, or have moved to.

Got ya

jjchieffan
12-21-2010, 02:46 PM
I am pleased with Cassel's improvement thus far. I am also anxious to see what improvements Pioli makes in the offseason to make this team a true contender. The deficiencies on this team are staggering and there is no way Cassel or the team in general performs as well next year, as is, against a much tougher schedule. But, the foundation is there. Imagine this team with a legit right tackle, a wide receiver that will push Bowe for the #1 spot on this team, a true nose tackle, and a starting linebacker not named Vrabel. It's nice to be able to make that list and not have to include quarterback.

MadMax
12-21-2010, 02:50 PM
Love him all ya want, I just say he sucks less...I don't dog him anymore cause it's pointless. He will be our QB for at least the next few years..

Bearcat
12-21-2010, 02:55 PM
The one missing the point is you. I noted that threads have gone like that. They have.

"If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.". I didn't make claims of that being verbatim. Quite the opposite, noting the "same vein".

As an aside, though, every single attempted rebuttal you made here is idiotic. It's as if you're trying to be a fool.

Uh-huh... I'll be sure to bring up the 2000 Patriots in future Cassel debates, as well as the critical Rams game and the other times he's taken the reigns and led them to victory, like against the Chargers and Browns. ROFLLMAO

Reerun_KC
12-21-2010, 02:58 PM
I didnt want the trade in the first place. Felt sorry for him last year. (Well not really, not with the kind of money he is making). Then was pretty pissed at the beginning of the year..

But quickly realized that Haley and Weis has a plan and they are sticking with it. They have worked wonders with Cassel... Guess that is why they are in the NFL and we are just message board fans...

They know exactly what they are doing... We just speculate our opinions as fact around here...

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 03:11 PM
So, if I understand corretly (and please correct me if I don't), every basher (even though each has his own set of "goalposts" for Cassel) has moved the goalposts.
However, you don't know which ones said what, and aren't sure where their goalposts began, or have moved to.

Got ya

You're not bothering to actually read what I've written, given that I've clearly differentiated types of Cassel bashers, and specifically noted that I was NOT putting Milkman in with those moving the goalposts.

....I believe that the majority of the posters that I believe that TRR is referring to will come around when Cassel meets the requirements I'm talking about.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=7279461#post7279461

....I agree with this. Unfortunately, that handful made the board almost unbearable for much of last year, and the beginning of this season. The good news is that their voices are a lot less influential now.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7279501&postcount=155

And therein lies the escape clause. Mind you, I'm not calling you out as one who's specifically moved the posts. I'm just noting the way the goalposts get moved.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=7279517#post7279517

Also, I'm not quoting those people specifically, partly because I didn't want them coming in and pissing on the conversation, and partly because I've put some of the biggest offenders on ignore. The quotes are around. Anyone who's paid attention knows that.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 03:13 PM
Uh-huh... I'll be sure to bring up the 2000 Patriots in future Cassel debates, as well as the critical Rams game and the other times he's taken the reigns and led them to victory, like against the Chargers and Browns. ROFLLMAO

Get back to me when you can understand the flow of a post. Until then, you're just a waste of time.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 03:16 PM
Love him all ya want, I just say he sucks less...I don't dog him anymore cause it's pointless. He will be our QB for at least the next few years..

Given that you were the one talking about how you'd suck your own cock if Cassel got the team to 8 wins, and you're now so gracious as to go with "he sucks less", thanks for demonstrating part of what I'm talking about with Sully. It's not fully on point regarding the moving goalposts, but it's close and I didn't have to go quote mining.

Sully
12-21-2010, 03:45 PM
Given that you were the one talking about how you'd suck your own cock if Cassel got the team to 8 wins, and you're now so gracious as to go with "he sucks less", thanks for demonstrating part of what I'm talking about with Sully. It's not fully on point regarding the moving goalposts, but it's close and I didn't have to go quote mining.

That's exactly my point.
You're claiming one thing (moving goalposts), and showing evidence for another (being wrong in an evaluation).
This quote isn't even "close" to moving the goalposts, since you haven't shown what his goalposts actually are.
You can argue that his goalposts are silly or unrealistic, but until you show that he's gone back on his original goals for a QB, then you lose the "moving" argument.
And while it may seem an insignificant argument, IMO, it's the difference between calling someone a poor evaluator of talent, and calling them a liar.


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MadMax
12-21-2010, 03:52 PM
Given that you were the one talking about how you'd suck your own cock if Cassel got the team to 8 wins, and you're now so gracious as to go with "he sucks less", thanks for demonstrating part of what I'm talking about with Sully. It's not fully on point regarding the moving goalposts, but it's close and I didn't have to go quote mining.




Get over your self son, I say stupid shit too.You are getting all worked up over nothing. Go suck Cassels cock if ya want it means shit to me.

Earthling
12-21-2010, 03:55 PM
If the Chiefs lose one more and miss the playoffs this year (hoping like hell that does not happen) I can honestly say I am still thrilled with Cassel's performance this year. I know not everyone shares my optimism for this team with Cassel at the helm but to each their own. I will say its nice to come on and read the threads and not think I made a mistake and went to the Mange instead Chiefs Planet, as happened a couple of times earlier in the year when its seemed like mostly negative things were being bantered about.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 03:56 PM
That's exactly my point.
You're claiming one thing (moving goalposts), and showing evidence for another (being wrong in an evaluation).
This quote isn't even "close" to moving the goalposts, since you haven't shown what his goalposts actually are.
You can argue that his goalposts are silly or unrealistic, but until you show that he's gone back on his original goals for a QB, then you lose the "moving" argument.
And while it may seem an insignificant argument, IMO, it's the difference between calling someone a poor evaluator of talent, and calling them a liar.


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His "goalpost" was 8-8. Are you seeing him say he was wrong about Cassel beyond "sucks less"? As I noted "It's not fully on point regarding the moving goalposts, but it's close". "Sucks less" is not the same as "sucks just as much", but it's clearly not much of a concession. That's where "close" came into play.

However, my 5:11 pm post dealt directly with what you claim to be your point.

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 04:00 PM
Get over your self son, I say stupid shit too.You are getting all worked up over nothing. Go suck Cassels cock if ya want it means shit to me.

I'm not worked up at all, and I meant it when I said "thanks" to you, because your grudging and meager concession of "sucks less" fit fairly well with what I was posting about. Your post wasn't exactly what Sully was asking for, but it was close, so I didn't feel the need to look further.

MadMax
12-21-2010, 04:06 PM
I'm not worked up at all, and I meant it when I said "thanks" to you, because your grudging and meager concession of "sucks less" fit fairly well with what I was posting about. Your post wasn't exactly what Sully was asking for, but it was close, so I didn't feel the need to look further.



I didn't think we could win 8 games yet, we are rebuilding, I get that.. But you wanna call people out cause you are happy with our QB is just a bunch of BS. If you sport wood over Cassel that's on you.

Sully
12-21-2010, 04:08 PM
His "goalpost" was 8-8. Are you seeing him say he was wrong about Cassel beyond "sucks less"? As I noted "It's not fully on point regarding the moving goalposts, but it's close". "Sucks less" is not the same as "sucks just as much", but it's clearly not much of a concession. That's where "close" came into play.

However, my 5:11 pm post dealt directly with what you claim to be your point.

Again, Tapatalk limits how I see quotes, and again, tell me if I'm wrong...
But it seems his goalposts for the team were 8-8. If he claimed he'd love Cassel if he was the QB on an 8 win team, then that's moving the goalposts. Otherwise, no, it's not "close."



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MadMax
12-21-2010, 04:08 PM
I actually didn't mean to be an ass :) sorry

Just Passin' By
12-21-2010, 04:10 PM
Again, Tapatalk limits how I see quotes, and again, tell me if I'm wrong...
But it seems his goalposts for the team were 8-8. If he claimed he'd love Cassel if he was the QB on an 8 win team, then that's moving the goalposts. Otherwise, no, it's not "close."



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Ummm.... Still sucks/sucks less

Yes, it's close. And, again, I'd already addressed your argument in the earlier post. His post was just something close to somewhat illustrate the point.

Sully
12-21-2010, 04:13 PM
Ummm.... Sucks/sucks less

Yes, it's close. And, again, I'd already addressed your argument in the earlier post. His post was just something close to somewhat illustrate the point.

I think maybe you're confused what "moving the goalposts" means.


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Sully
12-21-2010, 04:16 PM
If I'm trying to become a "rich" man, and the threshold for "rich" for me is $5 m, and I start with $100,000 then earn another $3 m, based on my goals, I am still not "rich."
I am "less poor," to be sure. And to many people, $3.1m is "rich."
However, I have, in no way (not even close) moved the goalposts.



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DeezNutz
12-21-2010, 06:12 PM
Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)


Did I miss the apology post, since my post did not provide evidence for "moving the goalposts"?

Bearcat
12-21-2010, 06:27 PM
Get back to me when you can understand the flow of a post. Until then, you're just a waste of time.

Hmmm... post flow sounds quite complicated. I've been here 10 years and I'm just now getting a good grasp on thread flow. Let's see...

Sarcasm/retard, intelligent conversation, retard, full retard, repeat of a fraction of the intelligent conversation for the late arrivals, full retard, full retard.

Something like that.... guess we could rename that last full retard "Bledsoe". :shrug:

crispystl420
12-21-2010, 07:39 PM
Nailed it

Yup great post

crispystl420
12-21-2010, 07:40 PM
So, basically, you were just making shit up.

Yup

jjchieffan
12-22-2010, 01:07 AM
If I'm trying to become a "rich" man, and the threshold for "rich" for me is $5 m, and I start with $100,000 then earn another $3 m, based on my goals, I am still not "rich."
I am "less poor," to be sure. And to many people, $3.1m is "rich."
However, I have, in no way (not even close) moved the goalposts.



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Then perhaps you have set the goalposts unrealistically high to start with. Will you be satisfied with Cassel becoming anything short of Peyton Manning or Joe Montana? As much as I would love to have a HOF QB here in KC, the reality is that those QB's are rare. We have a QB that is showing the potential to be a top 10 QB in the league for several years to come. Will he? who knows, but he has shown as much or more potential than drafturbator favorites such as Sanchez and Clausen.

Sully
12-22-2010, 06:52 AM
Then perhaps you have set the goalposts unrealistically high to start with. Will you be satisfied with Cassel becoming anything short of Peyton Manning or Joe Montana? As much as I would love to have a HOF QB here in KC, the reality is that those QB's are rare. We have a QB that is showing the potential to be a top 10 QB in the league for several years to come. Will he? who knows, but he has shown as much or more potential than drafturbator favorites such as Sanchez and Clausen.

I'd argue that several people have set the bar too high. But, then again, it's hard to fault anyone for wanting the best.
I think there are more people who have set the bar too low, as well. For many, the bar sits just above putting on a helmet with an arrowhead decal.


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Norman Einstein
12-22-2010, 06:59 AM
Get back to me when you can understand the flow of a post. Until then, you're just a waste of time.

We are going to have to rename you Redspot, it sounds like you have a problem with a flow problem. Most women used tampons or pads to take care of that problem. Until you get that fixed you are just another "woman" on the rag.

Dave Lane
12-22-2010, 07:39 AM
Again, Tapatalk limits how I see quotes, and again, tell me if I'm wrong...
But it seems his goalposts for the team were 8-8. If he claimed he'd love Cassel if he was the QB on an 8 win team, then that's moving the goalposts. Otherwise, no, it's not "close."


Are you being purposefully obtuse or is there a cognitive disconnect that is keeping you from understanding what hes talking about?

A lot of people, Madmax included, said this is a 4-6 win team at best. "I'll suck my own dick if we win 8 games".

The main issue is in August had you asked what do you want to see from MC to make you think he might be the answer at QB and they listed stats, games won etc, there's no way they would expect more than what he's done. Yet they refuse to look at MC and see any good. They refuse to give any credit because they are invested in being right. Dane and Milkman are logical thinkers. They were anti-Cassel and yet they see that he is possibly turning a corner and might be the answer. I feel the same way. Others have used pretexts to attempt to have a "logical reason" to continue to claim he sucks.

Bottom line if you are looking to find fault and place blame on MC he's an easy target but then so is every QB in the league Manning and Brady included.

Sully
12-22-2010, 07:50 AM
Are you being purposefully obtuse or is there a cognitive disconnect that is keeping you from understanding what hes talking about?

A lot of people, Madmax included, said this is a 4-6 win team at best. "I'll suck my own dick if we win 8 games".

The main issue is in August had you asked what do you want to see from MC to make you think he might be the answer at QB and they listed stats, games won etc, there's no way they would expect more than what he's done. Yet they refuse to look at MC and see any good. They refuse to give any credit because they are invested in being right. Dane and Milkman are logical thinkers. They were anti-Cassel and yet they see that he is possibly turning a corner and might be the answer. I feel the same way. Others have used pretexts to attempt to have a "logical reason" to continue to claim he sucks.

Bottom line if you are looking to find fault and place blame on MC he's an easy target but then so is every QB in the league Manning and Brady included.

I don't think I'm being obtuse at all.
I think if you can find evidence that someone "moved the goalposts" on Cassel, I'll be right alongside of you questioning their integrity.
I just haven't seen any, yet.


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Dick Bull
12-22-2010, 07:57 AM
A few years ago people were perpetually bitching that we haven't drafted and developed a QB since Dawson. Well, we still haven't.



Apparently those people were ill informed, because we neither drafted nor developed Dawson.

Norman Einstein
12-22-2010, 08:34 AM
Apparently those people were ill informed, because we neither drafted nor developed Dawson.

Facts are not allowed when dealing with B_A.

Sannyasi
12-22-2010, 09:27 AM
Are you being purposefully obtuse or is there a cognitive disconnect that is keeping you from understanding what hes talking about?

A lot of people, Madmax included, said this is a 4-6 win team at best. "I'll suck my own dick if we win 8 games".

The main issue is in August had you asked what do you want to see from MC to make you think he might be the answer at QB and they listed stats, games won etc, there's no way they would expect more than what he's done. Yet they refuse to look at MC and see any good. They refuse to give any credit because they are invested in being right. Dane and Milkman are logical thinkers. They were anti-Cassel and yet they see that he is possibly turning a corner and might be the answer. I feel the same way. Others have used pretexts to attempt to have a "logical reason" to continue to claim he sucks.

Bottom line if you are looking to find fault and place blame on MC he's an easy target but then so is every QB in the league Manning and Brady included.

EVERYONE thinks that Cassel has improved. If you can't find the posts saying that Cassel has been playing much better the last few games then i have to imagine its because you aren't looking.

PGM
12-22-2010, 09:40 AM
Hooray!!!! Another thread showing off the ignorance of B_Ambuehl :whackit:

Dave Lane
12-22-2010, 10:33 AM
EVERYONE thinks that Cassel has improved. If you can't find the posts saying that Cassel has been playing much better the last few games then i have to imagine its because you aren't looking.

Some people rather than give credit (like BA) are now saying, at best, well even if he is better he's still not a franchise QB.

Just say he's improving looks lots better and stfu. Seriously its time for this thread to end. Get the Cassle haters to admit its looking like he MIGHT be the answer and this thread can die.

B_Ambuehl
12-22-2010, 10:49 AM
Apparently those people were ill informed, because we neither drafted nor developed Dawson.

The point is he was already with the franchise when it moved to KC. We've never drafted and developed anyone worth a shit in KC since. Remember the year Croyle was supposed to start and all the talk of how great it is that KC is finally playing and developing a true drafted QB? Then Pioli breaks out the Carl method of team building and pulls the same bullshit with Cassel Carl did for years and years and years and everybody seems to forget, we still haven't drafted and developed a QB. Most likely the situation will end the same way. Carl era QBs were decent but not great and eventually became limiting. None of them looked as bad as Cassell did thru his first ~1.5 yrs starting here, and none of them had as much help in the running game as he's had this year. Even his biggest supporters agree the Casshole isn't a "true franchise QB" which you generally have to draft and develop.

Can you win with him? Yeah, but you could also win with Carl era Qbs.

So basically there's a big disconnect here: Everybody wanted to run Carl out of town for being content with non franchise QBs but now everybody wants to suck Pioli and Cassels dick for doing the same ****ing thing (at a lower level IMO).

Sweet Daddy Hate
12-22-2010, 04:55 PM
Hooray!!!! Another thread showing off the ignorance of B_Ambuehl :whackit:

And don't forget the uber-annoying ass-hattery of JustFistingMyself!

BONUS!:thumb:

MadMax
12-22-2010, 05:19 PM
Are you being purposefully obtuse or is there a cognitive disconnect that is keeping you from understanding what hes talking about?

A lot of people, Madmax included, said this is a 4-6 win team at best. "I'll suck my own dick if we win 8 games".

The main issue is in August had you asked what do you want to see from MC to make you think he might be the answer at QB and they listed stats, games won etc, there's no way they would expect more than what he's done. Yet they refuse to look at MC and see any good. They refuse to give any credit because they are invested in being right. Dane and Milkman are logical thinkers. They were anti-Cassel and yet they see that he is possibly turning a corner and might be the answer. I feel the same way. Others have used pretexts to attempt to have a "logical reason" to continue to claim he sucks.

Bottom line if you are looking to find fault and place blame on MC he's an easy target but then so is every QB in the league Manning and Brady included.




Dave I don't believe I ever said he hasn't improved. Yes I made a foolish prediction, and I have no hate for Cassel. He is just not the QB I had hope for. I hope he gets better and wish nothing but the best for the Chiefs.

Sweet Daddy Hate
12-22-2010, 06:28 PM
Dave I don't believe I ever said he hasn't improved. Yes I made a foolish prediction, and I have no hate for Cassel. He is just not the QB I had hope for. I hope he gets better and wish nothing but the best for the Chiefs.

He's the guy, there's no getting around it, the team plays better with him, so my MO is as follows:

Build Uber-Team to support him, take it as far as it can go, and pray, yes PRAY LIKE YOU'VE NEVER PRAYED BEFORE, that guy who comes after him is FINALLY high-round, franchise material.

Yep; think long-term.

Over/Out!:D

CrazyHorse
12-22-2010, 06:39 PM
Against Seattle and Arizona?

From reading this board it sounds like Cassell just won the MVP trophy, but when I look at his stats for the last 2 football games this is what I find:

Denver: 17-31 196 1-0
St Louis: 15-29 184 1-1

That's barely 50% completion percentage against 2 shitty football teams WITH an outstanding running game behind him.

When I look at his record I don't think he's won a football game when he didn't get at least 140 rushing yards to support him.

The fact is Seattle and Arizona can make anybody look good. Hell, Alex Smith went for ~300 yds and 3 TDs last week vs Seattle.

At some point Casshole's gonna have to prove he can win a football game by himself without much of a running game against a good defense playing coverage. Opposing teams routinely sell out on the run when they face us. When you're only completing ~50% of your passes vs the kind of coverage he's been getting I think there are legitimate questions whether he's capable of doing that.

"But casshole is so tough and he's become a leader blah blah blah". ****ing trent dilfer was tough and a leader too. Doesn't make him a good QB. Hell, Tim Tebow's tough and a leader. Doesn't make him an NFL player.

Flame away.

So you're saying we should put in Brodie?

Brilliant.

Iconic
12-22-2010, 06:53 PM
The point is he was already with the franchise when it moved to KC. We've never drafted and developed anyone worth a shit in KC since. Remember the year Croyle was supposed to start and all the talk of how great it is that KC is finally playing and developing a true drafted QB? Then Pioli breaks out the Carl method of team building and pulls the same bullshit with Cassel Carl did for years and years and years and everybody seems to forget, we still haven't drafted and developed a QB. Most likely the situation will end the same way. Carl era QBs were decent but not great and eventually became limiting. None of them looked as bad as Cassell did thru his first ~1.5 yrs starting here, and none of them had as much help in the running game as he's had this year. Even his biggest supporters agree the Casshole isn't a "true franchise QB" which you generally have to draft and develop.

Can you win with him? Yeah, but you could also win with Carl era Qbs.

So basically there's a big disconnect here: Everybody wanted to run Carl out of town for being content with non franchise QBs but now everybody wants to suck Pioli and Cassels dick for doing the same ****ing thing (at a lower level IMO).

All you want is for us to ****ing develop a QB. That's it. You're so obsessed with that idea that your blinded by the fact that not all HOF QB's where drafted and 'developed' as you call it. There's lots of QB's who weren't top 10 draft picks who turned out GREAT in the NFL. Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Drew Brees.... The list goes on and on. Cassel is only getting better and better and either you get behind him or fuck off. Simple.

Sweet Daddy Hate
12-22-2010, 07:37 PM
All you want is for us to ****ing develop a QB. That's it. You're so obsessed with that idea that your blinded by the fact that not all HOF QB's where drafted and 'developed' as you call it. There's lots of QB's who weren't top 10 draft picks who turned out GREAT in the NFL. Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Drew Brees.... The list goes on and on. Cassel is only getting better and better and either you get behind him or fuck off. Simple.

EAT FUCK PIE, n00b.

Simple.

milkman
12-22-2010, 08:03 PM
The point is he was already with the franchise when it moved to KC. We've never drafted and developed anyone worth a shit in KC since. Remember the year Croyle was supposed to start and all the talk of how great it is that KC is finally playing and developing a true drafted QB? Then Pioli breaks out the Carl method of team building and pulls the same bullshit with Cassel Carl did for years and years and years and everybody seems to forget, we still haven't drafted and developed a QB. Most likely the situation will end the same way. Carl era QBs were decent but not great and eventually became limiting. None of them looked as bad as Cassell did thru his first ~1.5 yrs starting here, and none of them had as much help in the running game as he's had this year. Even his biggest supporters agree the Casshole isn't a "true franchise QB" which you generally have to draft and develop.

Can you win with him? Yeah, but you could also win with Carl era Qbs.

So basically there's a big disconnect here: Everybody wanted to run Carl out of town for being content with non franchise QBs but now everybody wants to suck Pioli and Cassels dick for doing the same ****ing thing (at a lower level IMO).

Wow.

This is what you're going with.

Len Dawson was a franchise QB in KC because he was already with the franchise when the Texans relocated to KC?

Really?

You do know he was roughly the same age when he signed with the Texans as Cassel was when he was traded to the Chiefs?

You do know that he had actually been in the NFL a year longer that Matt Cassel had been in the league?

You do know that for most of his career, there was debate about whether he was actually a QB that could lead the Chiefs, and that he was really not accepted fully by the fan base until the Chiefs won SB IV?

Your whole argument is complete and utter bullshit.

Holy shit.

mlyonsd
12-22-2010, 08:10 PM
Uh, when you inherit a 2-14 team you've got so many problems you don't try and play craps trying to develop a QB right out of college. At least that's what I told Hunt and Pioli when they called asking for my input.

Sully
12-22-2010, 08:14 PM
All you want is for us to ****ing develop a QB. That's it. You're so obsessed with that idea that your blinded by the fact that not all HOF QB's where drafted and 'developed' as you call it. There's lots of QB's who weren't top 10 draft picks who turned out GREAT in the NFL. Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Drew Brees.... The list goes on and on. Cassel is only getting better and better and either you get behind him or fuck off. Simple.

Get behind him or fuck off?
Really? That's what you're going with?

Wow.
Good stuff.


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B_Ambuehl
01-09-2011, 06:22 PM
LOL

Casshole vs the 'Fade: 11-33 115 yds 0 TD 2 INT
Casshole vs the Ravens: 9-18 70 yds 0 TD 3 INT

He's still failed to do anything when the football team didn't dominate on the ground and in addition to his piss poor stats there are a multitude of other times he's held onto the ball for eternity, taken bad sacks, and been called for bad intentional grounding penalties.

We're now in the worst case scenario. No doubt he's not the answer but there's also little doubt he'll be around another year.

milkman
01-09-2011, 06:29 PM
LOL

Casshole vs the 'Fade: 11-33 115 yds 0 TD 2 INT
Casshole vs the Ravens: 9-18 70 yds 0 TD 3 INT

He's still failed to do anything when the football team didn't dominate on the ground and in addition to his piss poor stats there are a multitude of other times he's held onto the ball for eternity, taken bad sacks, and been called for bad intentional grounding penalties.

We're now in the worst case scenario. No doubt he's not the answer but there's also little doubt he'll be around another year.

I bet you feel vindicated and happier than shit since it apperas to you that you were right.

Good for you.

B_Ambuehl
01-09-2011, 06:39 PM
Well, there were a few of us here who'd seen this movie before and knew how it ended.

I've said from the beginning of the year I'd rather do what's necessary to get a legitimate long term answer at QB than be stuck with a fraud for the next 2 years.

milkman
01-09-2011, 06:47 PM
Well, there were a few of us here who'd seen this movie before and knew how it ended.

I've said from the beginning of the year I'd rather do what's necessary to get a legitimate long term answer at QB than be stuck with a fraud for the next 2 years.

I'm not saying you're right dumbass.

I'm saying you think you're right, and that makes you happy.

Good for you.

You're happy because you believe you're right that the QB we have is not the right guy.

Nothing better than being (in your mind) right and having to wait even longer to take the next step as a team, huh?

DeezNutz
01-09-2011, 06:50 PM
There's a lot of gray area, even for those like myself who admitted to hating the acquisition and his play for the majority of his time in KC. I'm sorry, when you post a QB rating of 14.6, and then claim you graded out "perfectly," I won't say positive things.

But even during this period, if he performed well, made a good throw, etc., I said so (usually in game threads).

So, back to the initial question. Again, this is too simplistic. Did I react rashly to the initial acquisition? Perhaps. Did I react rashly to his on-field play? I think a strong argument can be made for "no."

What might be my biggest mistake is that I claimed that "presence" and "football instincts" cannot be learned at the highest level. If Cassel continues his current trajectory, he will definitely prove me wrong.

Still waiting.

Sweet Daddy Hate
01-09-2011, 07:11 PM
He's the guy, there's no getting around it, the team plays better with him, so my MO is as follows:

Build Uber-Team to support him, take it as far as it can go, and pray, yes PRAY LIKE YOU'VE NEVER PRAYED BEFORE, that guy who comes after him is FINALLY high-round, franchise material.

Yep; think long-term.

Over/Out!:D

Stayin'....RIGHT HERE.

Wurd.:thumb:

B_Ambuehl
01-10-2011, 11:30 AM
I'm not saying you're right dumbass.

I'm saying you think you're right, and that makes you happy.

Good for you.

You're happy because you believe you're right that the QB we have is not the right guy.

Nothing better than being (in your mind) right and having to wait even longer to take the next step as a team, huh?

Funny. If that were true it would make me no different than Pioli. He would rather be right than have a decent QB, and this offseason should leave no doubt about that.

milkman
01-10-2011, 09:07 PM
Funny. If that were true it would make me no different than Pioli. He would rather be right than have a decent QB, and this offseason should leave no doubt about that.

No, it would only leave no doubt for you, and others that believe the same as you.

I absolutely believe he's moving forward with Cassel because, like me, he saw real progress and believes he can continue to grow.,

Sweet Daddy Hate
01-11-2011, 06:23 AM
No, it would only leave no doubt for you, and others that believe the same as you.

I absolutely believe he's moving forward with Cassel because, like me, he saw real progress and believes he can continue to grow.,

I'll take that bet, because I have absolutely NO faith in him against legit competition.

B_Ambuehl
01-11-2011, 09:59 AM
Against teams of .500 or better Cassel actually regressed from last year to this year. He always has sucked and always will.

B_Ambuehl
09-27-2011, 11:20 AM
LOL. Time for a LOT of folks to come and get their fresh crow for dinner.

PGM
09-27-2011, 11:26 AM
Based off of your track record, this is like a monkey throwing feces against a wall and making "art".

brett
09-27-2011, 11:32 AM
id still give cassole a chance to prove himself

BCD
09-27-2011, 12:06 PM
id still give cassole a chance to prove himself

:spock:

Dayze
09-27-2011, 12:08 PM
Based off of your track record, this is like a monkey throwing feces against a wall and making "art".

don't bring Mikey Teutel into this.

B_Ambuehl
09-27-2011, 01:10 PM
Based off of your track record, this is like a monkey throwing feces against a wall and making "art".

My track record?

I've been anti-Clark Hunt from day 1.
Anti Herm from day 1.
Anti Haley from day 1.
Anti Pioli from day 1
Anti Casshole
Anti Muir
Anti T. Jack

Like some of you'll I didn't jump on and off the bandwagon. Most of those now appear to be problems not assets.

I've also been:
Pro Gailey
Pro Sanchez/Freeman
Pro Weis
Pro Sean Smith
Pro Charles (back when they were trying to trade him)
etc.

Lzen
09-27-2011, 03:22 PM
What really pisses me off about Cassel is that he showed flashes last year and fooled (some of) us into thinking that he might actually turn into a legit NFL QB. :shake:

PGM
09-27-2011, 04:02 PM
My track record?

I've been anti-Clark Hunt from day 1.
Anti Herm from day 1.
Anti Haley from day 1.
Anti Pioli from day 1
Anti Casshole
Anti Muir
Anti T. Jack

Like some of you'll I didn't jump on and off the bandwagon. Most of those now appear to be problems not assets.

I've also been:
Pro Gailey
Pro Sanchez/Freeman
Pro Weis
Pro Sean Smith
Pro Charles (back when they were trying to trade him)
etc.

:hmmm: So, you are telling me you are a draftabulator and one of the smartest motherfuckers on the motherfucking Planet??

Sanchez is still a below average QB BTW, so I'm not sure why you've got a woody over that one.

The book is still out on Pioli/Haley. The rest are pretty much no brainers for the majority.

Brock
09-27-2011, 04:08 PM
My track record?


Pro Charles (back when they were trying to trade him)
etc.

You hated the Jamaal Charles pick when it was made. I'm sure if I cared enough to look, I could find many, many inconsistencies to your story.

Chiefnj2
09-27-2011, 04:11 PM
If someone was strongly anti-Pioli, then you were pro-Carl??? Pro-Herm??

PGM
09-27-2011, 04:18 PM
You hated the Jamaal Charles pick when it was made. I'm sure if I cared enough to look, I could find many, many inconsistencies to your story.

I figured he was full of crap.

Brock
09-27-2011, 04:20 PM
I figured he was full of crap.

He was all "We passed on Early Doucet for a backup RB WTF?".

Detoxing
09-27-2011, 05:01 PM
I knew the Chiefs would fail! I knew it all along I say!

Can i get an internet high five?!?!

Douche Baggins
09-27-2011, 06:39 PM
I'm almost 100 percent sure I went full retard in this thread. Stand by.

Marcellus
09-27-2011, 06:41 PM
I was sold for a while. I feel a bit dirty now. Keep washing my hands but they still feel icky.