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View Full Version : Chiefs Does Cassel make the probowl?


RedThat
12-26-2010, 08:38 PM
I know, I know this may seem a bit too much for some people to grasp.

But, thinking about it, he should at the very least deserve some consideration.

I understand there are a handful of quarterbacks in the AFC that are better than him talentwise. If quarterbacks are selected based on their ability/talent alone, then I'd say he shouldn't get voted in.

However, I don't think that would be a fair assessment. The dude has come a long way and is blossoming into a really solid quarterback. Imo, a fair assessment would be focusing on what he has done this year. The fact that he has led his team to a division title and into the playoffs speaks high volumes alone. And, he is the 3rd rated quarterback in the AFC. He can in my opinion throw for 30 TD's. That may be a bit of a stretch but I won't exclude that as a possibility either. His touchdown to interception ratio is outstanding, and he has thrown for over 3,000 yards. And he just seems to be getting better and better. What is their not to like?

Can we justify any other reason as to why he shouldn't make it? I know Rivers, Manning, and Brady are better. I understand. And sad enough the way it works in this league is they'll get voted in based on their reputation alone. And just because they're more proven and established quarterbacks than Cassel is.

KCrockaholic
12-26-2010, 08:39 PM
Of course he deserves to go....But he won't because the voters are assholes.

Ming the Merciless
12-26-2010, 08:40 PM
I'm not too up on stats...Do they send 3?

Peyton...Brady...then cassel?

Mama Hip Rockets
12-26-2010, 08:40 PM
Does he deserve to? Yes.

Will he? No, because he's not popular enough.

Basileus777
12-26-2010, 08:40 PM
He doesn't have the fan votes, but he'll probably end up there when some other QB skips out of going to the event.

Marcellus
12-26-2010, 08:40 PM
Yup but after Brady, Rivers or Manning drops out.

Saul Good
12-26-2010, 08:41 PM
OTWP called me retarded for saying this 2 weeks ago, but there's at least a 50% chance that MC finishes in the top 10 of the MVP voting.

mnchiefsguy
12-26-2010, 08:41 PM
Brady and Rivers must make in based on the seasons that they have had. I am not sure who I would put in it #3 ahead of Cassel. Manning maybe, but he had a three or four game stretch where he was below average, even for him. I don't think Ben R. or Flacco have had better years either. Tough call...but nice to know our QB is in the discussion in a positive way.

KCrockaholic
12-26-2010, 08:43 PM
Manning will go because the Pro Bowl is a fraud. It SHOULD be Brady, Rivers, Cassel. With Garrard as the extra if somebody doesn't show up.

Mr. Laz
12-26-2010, 08:43 PM
the pro bowl is pretty much about what happened the year before ... that and the PR hype machine. This is the 1st year where Cassel is really consider THE guy and he's in KC so that is 2 strikes against him.

He might be a replacement if someone doesnt show though.

T-post Tom
12-26-2010, 08:43 PM
I'm sure we'd all much rather see him in the Super Bowl.

milkman
12-26-2010, 08:43 PM
In all honesty, his stats are ProBowl worthy, but he hasn't, in reality, played at a ProBowl level until the last 3 games.

JD10367
12-26-2010, 08:44 PM
the pro bowl is pretty much about what happened the year before ... that and the PR hype machine. This is the 1st year where Cassel is really consider THE guy and he's in KC so that is 2 strikes against him.

He might be a replacement if someone does show though.

This. The voting will probably go:

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Rivers
4. Cassel

And since none of the first three will go, Cassel will probably start the Pro Bowl.

Marcellus
12-26-2010, 08:46 PM
Another question is does Bowe make it leading the NFL in TD receptions.

Also Cassel needs 2 TD's to tie L. Dawson's franchise TD pass record of 30 in a season.

BossChief
12-26-2010, 08:47 PM
It doesn't matter anyway, they wont let him play in a meaningless game a week before we have to play the Superbowl.

KCwolf
12-26-2010, 08:49 PM
He doesn't have the fan votes, but he'll probably end up there when some other QB skips out of going to the event.

Exactly......but still deserved.

Hootie
12-26-2010, 08:49 PM
Manning will go because the Pro Bowl is a fraud. It SHOULD be Brady, Rivers, Cassel. With Garrard as the extra if somebody doesn't show up.

yikes man

if you watched Manning play today you'd see how great he was

numbers don't always tell the story

and I'd give the Pats and Colts even odds as favorites to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl this year...

Colts play as good on the road as they do at home.

ProAngler
12-26-2010, 08:49 PM
PB is one of the most if not the biggest joke in the NFL.. we have atleast 7 players that should go, but well be lucky to have 2 in there...lucky

Hootie
12-26-2010, 08:50 PM
Colts won me $400 today...

what an easy bet that was

took Colts -3 (+105) early in the week...saw the line fall to -1 and was laughing my ass off...

people (and Vegas) actually were worried about the Colts losing this game?

Really?

Really?

have we not paid attention the last 10 years?

it was like STEALING today...

put $150 on the Colts and $100 on a three team money line parlay (Colts, Chiefs, Pats) and won EASY money...

Saul Good
12-26-2010, 08:52 PM
Colts won me $400 today...

what an easy bet that was

took Colts -3 (+105) early in the week...saw the line fall to -1 and was laughing my ass off...

people (and Vegas) actually were worried about the Colts losing this game?

Really?

Really?

have we not paid attention the last 10 years?

it was like STEALING today...

put $150 on the Colts and $100 on a three team money line parlay (Colts, Chiefs, Pats) and won EASY money...

I jumped on the Colts -1.5.

BigMeatballDave
12-26-2010, 08:53 PM
Peyton being there this season is a fucking travesty.

Its the reason the Pro Bowl is a fucking joke.

BigRedChief
12-26-2010, 08:55 PM
Of course he deserves to go....But he won't because the voters are assholes.Cassel didn't have a so much of a better year than Brady, Mannning and Rivers to rule then out on stats.

Saul Good
12-26-2010, 08:56 PM
Peyton being there this season is a ****ing travesty.

Its the reason the Pro Bowl is a ****ing joke.

The guy's going to throw for nearly 5,000 yards and 35 or so TDs with a garbage squad around him. Oh yeah, they're division champs, too.

Just Passin' By
12-26-2010, 08:57 PM
Cassel won't make it on the first round, but he could get in as an alternate once others start bowing out.

BigMeatballDave
12-26-2010, 08:59 PM
The guy's going to throw for nearly 5,000 yards and 35 or so TDs with a garbage squad around him. Oh yeah, they're division champs, too.and an assload of INTs

JD10367
12-26-2010, 09:01 PM
Peyton being there this season is a ****ing travesty.

Its the reason the Pro Bowl is a ****ing joke.

As much as I hate the giant-foreheaded douche, he is the main (possibly singular) reason the Colts will win their division. Yeah, he's 6th in the AFC in QB rating (under Brady, Rivers, Cassel, Flacco, and Rapistberger). But he's 1st in yards, and 2nd in TDs only to Brady. Not sure it's a "travesty" or a "joke" if he makes it.

You've got Brady, Manning, Rivers, Flacco, Rapist, and Cassel. Without a doubt, the cream of the AFC crop. And, aside from Brady, you can make pros and cons for all of them, I guess.

Rain Man
12-26-2010, 09:03 PM
Cassel won't make it on the first round, but he could get in as an alternate once others start bowing out.

Yeah, I figure that's the case. He's not well known enough yet, especially considering that some of the other quarterbacks in the conference are held out weekly as the greatest human beings who have ever walked the earth, and are routinely credited with inventing the polio vaccine and discovering the source of the Nile.

I guess Cassel will just have to settle for a Super Bowl MVP award.

Just Passin' By
12-26-2010, 09:03 PM
The guy's going to throw for nearly 5,000 yards and 35 or so TDs with a garbage squad around him. Oh yeah, they're division champs, too.

Brady
Rivers
Cassel
Roethlisberger


Those four all are more deserving than Manning this season, IMO.

Saul Good
12-26-2010, 09:06 PM
Brady
Rivers
Cassel
Roethlisberger


Those four all are more deserving than Manning this season, IMO.

Roethlisberger? The guy with 15 TD passes on the season? The guy who is 8-3 as a starter on a team that was 3-1 without him? That Roethlisberger?

cdcox
12-26-2010, 09:11 PM
Top 3 seasons (in order):

Brady, Rivers, Manning

Next bunch (in alphabetical order):

Cassel, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Shaub

KCrockaholic
12-26-2010, 09:12 PM
yikes man

if you watched Manning play today you'd see how great he was

numbers don't always tell the story

and I'd give the Pats and Colts even odds as favorites to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl this year...

Colts play as good on the road as they do at home.

:shake: I am not talking about Peyton with you. You need to get off of his nuts. It's ridiculous.

Dartgod
12-26-2010, 09:14 PM
He better.

cdcox
12-26-2010, 09:15 PM
Roethlisberger? The guy with 15 TD passes on the season? The guy who is 8-3 as a starter on a team that was 3-1 without him? That Roethlisberger?

Say what you want, his rating is as good as Cassel's and his per-game-production is 60 yards per game better. Roethilsberger has had a pretty good season.

Just Passin' By
12-26-2010, 09:16 PM
Roethlisberger? The guy with 15 TD passes on the season? The guy who is 8-3 as a starter on a team that was 3-1 without him? That Roethlisberger?


8-3 for Roethlisberger, 9-6 for Manning.

advantage Roethlisberger



Stats from pro-football-reference.com (not counting today's games)

4.1% TD for Roethlisberger, 1.4% INT for Roethlisberger

4.6% TD for Manning, 2.5% INT for Manning

94.3 QB rating for Roethlisberger, 92.1 QB rating for Manning

advantage Roethlisberger


Yes, that Roethlisberger

Saul Good
12-26-2010, 09:18 PM
Say what you want, his rating is as good as Cassel's and his per-game-production is 60 yards per game better. Roethilsberger has had a pretty good season.

Cassel's got a better rating, twice as many TDs, the same number of INTs, and the team couldn't function when he wasn't in the lineup whereas the Steelers were 3-1 without Ben.

BigMeatballDave
12-26-2010, 09:20 PM
Top 3 seasons (in order):

Brady, Rivers, Manning

Next bunch (in alphabetical order):

Cassel, Flacco, Roethlisberger, ShaubBS. Cassel is having a better season than Manning. 28 TD passes and 15 INTs?

Saul Good
12-26-2010, 09:20 PM
8-3 for Roethlisberger, 9-6 for Manning.

advantage Roethlisberger



Stats from pro-football-reference.com (not counting today's games)

4.1% TD for Roethlisberger, 1.4% INT for Roethlisberger

4.6% TD for Manning, 2.5% INT for Manning

94.3 QB rating for Roethlisberger, 92.1 QB rating for Manning

advantage Roethlisberger


Yes, that Roethlisberger

Ben's team is 3-1 without him. Where would the Colts be without Manning? Somewhere around 2-13 would be my guess.

Extra Point
12-26-2010, 09:21 PM
I'm with Rain Man on this. I'd love for Cassel not to be at the Pro Bowl, due to winning the Super Bowl.

BigMeatballDave
12-26-2010, 09:21 PM
Say what you want, his rating is as good as Cassel's and his per-game-production is 60 yards per game better. Roethilsberger has had a pretty good season.So we're punishing MC for having a better running game?

Just Passin' By
12-26-2010, 09:24 PM
Ben's team is 3-1 without him. Where would the Colts be without Manning? Somewhere around 2-13 would be my guess.

So we penalize Roethlisberger because the Colts don't have a decent backup on their roster, and the Steelers made sure they were covered in that area?


Sorry, but I'm not buying that.

MahiMike
12-26-2010, 09:26 PM
But of course!

cdcox
12-26-2010, 09:27 PM
Cassel's got a better rating, twice as many TDs, the same number of INTs, and the team couldn't function when he wasn't in the lineup whereas the Steelers were 3-1 without Ben.


(Guessing you were actually comparing him to Manning, my bad.)

No, I was comparing Cassel and Roth. Cassel's efficiency is excellent, but his production is far lower than the other contenders at 207 yards per game. Roethlisberger is very close to Cassel in efficiency (96.2 to 94.3), but far stronger in production (265 yards per game). Cassel is more deserving in some categories, but Roethlisberger is more deserving in others. The case could be made for either player.

Saul Good
12-26-2010, 09:30 PM
So we penalize Roethlisberger because the Colts don't have a decent backup on their roster, and the Steelers made sure they were covered in that area?


Sorry, but I'm not buying that.

It's not about who the backup QB is. The Steelers are built to win games with any stiff at QB. If you put Dennis Dixon under center for the Colts, they wouldn't win 3 games all year, let alone 3 of 4.

cdcox
12-26-2010, 09:35 PM
So we're punishing MC for having a better running game?

I just don't agree that you can completely ignore production (yards per game) when selecting pro bowl players. Manning has had a down year by his standards, but it wasn't a bad year at all, especially if you consider the injuries to his receiving corps.

milkman
12-26-2010, 09:35 PM
It's not about who the backup QB is. The Steelers are built to win games with any stiff at QB. If you put Dennis Dixon under center for the Colts, they wouldn't win 3 games all year, let alone 3 of 4.

I consider that a philosophical flaw.

chiefzilla1501
12-26-2010, 09:36 PM
Cassel's got a better rating, twice as many TDs, the same number of INTs, and the team couldn't function when he wasn't in the lineup whereas the Steelers were 3-1 without Ben.

I wasn't sure how I'd answer this question, but if I'm comparing the 2 QBs, this is the tiebreaker for me. Earlier in the year, the Chiefs were winning despite horrible QB play. THe past month or so, the way the defense and running game have been erratic, I doubt Dennis Dixon or Charlie Batch comes in with the same amount of success.

Think Big Ben's a much better QB but for this season, I think it'd be hard not to have Cassel in there over Ben.

ChiefsCountry
12-26-2010, 09:45 PM
Steelers might win some games with Batch or Dixon but without Big Ben they aren't Super Bowl bound.

Just Passin' By
12-26-2010, 09:48 PM
It's not about who the backup QB is. The Steelers are built to win games with any stiff at QB. If you put Dennis Dixon under center for the Colts, they wouldn't win 3 games all year, let alone 3 of 4.

You're making two assumptions that I simply don't buy. Furthermore, while your argument might matter for an MVP discussion, it doesn't make a difference when it comes to the Pro Bowl.

Manning's #5 on the depth chart of Pro Bowl deserving AFC QBs.

BigMeatballDave
12-26-2010, 09:56 PM
As long as we have this kind of running game, MC is never gonna put up 4500+ yards in a season. With good reason, though.

I'm sure Brady, Manning, Roth., et al would love to have our running game.

Hootie
12-26-2010, 10:10 PM
if Manning had our running game he would have maybe 2 INT's on the year...

dude only throws picks because he has no windows...and has to throw the ball because his ground game is practically non-existant...

if Manning had Jamaal Charles...

holy mother of God

milkman
12-26-2010, 10:13 PM
if Manning had our running game he would have maybe 2 INT's on the year...

dude only throws picks because he has no windows...and has to throw the ball because his ground game is practically non-existant...

if Manning had Jamaal Charles...

holy mother of God

So tell us, how does Brady do it?

Hootie
12-26-2010, 10:14 PM
So tell us, how does Brady do it?

Brady is great...better QB this year no doubt

but he does have a ground game...

and lets be honest

dude gets 10 seconds back in the pocket...it's ridiculous...back to 2007 Pats

he hops around like a little bunny rabbit waiting for his little bunny rabbit receivers to get open...no one touches him

ChiefsCountry
12-26-2010, 10:14 PM
if Manning had our running game he would have maybe 2 INT's on the year...

dude only throws picks because he has no windows...and has to throw the ball because his ground game is practically non-existant...

if Manning had Jamaal Charles...

holy mother of God

He had Edgerrian James and he still threw 10 plus pics a year. You really need to get your mouth off Peyton's dick.

Just Passin' By
12-26-2010, 10:16 PM
if Manning had our running game he would have maybe 2 INT's on the year...

dude only throws picks because he has no windows...and has to throw the ball because his ground game is practically non-existant...

if Manning had Jamaal Charles...

holy mother of God

Manning's had tremendous running games in the past, along with HOF receivers, and he's only been under 10 INTs once.

chiefzilla1501
12-26-2010, 10:16 PM
Steelers might win some games with Batch or Dixon but without Big Ben they aren't Super Bowl bound.

The point is that the Steelers looked like a playoff team without Big Ben.

I think Big Ben is one of the best QBs in the game and in that elite class (which Cassel is not). But it most certainly hurts his case big time that he missed 4 games and the Steelers proved they're a playoff team with or without him. If Big Ben played the whole season and had similar #'s, hard to imagine he would win a pro bowl nomination over Cassel. But as it is right now, I would bet that Cassel is in over Big Ben.

Hootie
12-26-2010, 10:17 PM
He had Edgerrian James and he still threw 10 plus pics a year. You really need to get your mouth off Peyton's dick.

uhm Edge was overrated

he averaged about 4.2 YPC and the one year he went down via injury Rhodes stepped right in and out produced any year Edge ever had...

and my mouth doesn't need to anywhere...I'm sorry you guys can't appreciate great, great QB play...

the command Peyton has of his team in a hostile environment is incredible...he's better on the road with all of that noise than he is at home...

that audible run to seal the game was a thing of beauty

Just Passin' By
12-26-2010, 10:19 PM
uhm Edge was overrated

he averaged about 4.2 YPC and the one year he went down via injury Rhodes stepped right in and out produced any year Edge ever had...

and my mouth doesn't need to anywhere...I'm sorry you guys can't appreciate great, great QB play...

the command Peyton has of his team in a hostile environment is incredible...he's better on the road with all of that noise than he is at home...

that audible run to seal the game was a thing of beauty

It's not that others can't appreciate great QB play. It's that you're wrong in your comparison here, and you're overrating Manning while minimizing the talents of the QBs you're comparing to him. Brady is better than Manning, and he has been for most of his career.

Hootie
12-26-2010, 10:20 PM
Manning's had tremendous running games in the past, along with HOF receivers, and he's only been under 10 INTs once.

for 4 straight seasons he had 10, 10, 10 and 9 INTs

and that's while slinging the ball all over the place and with COMPETENT running games...

the Colts can't run the ball this year and it makes Manning's windows for throws almost non-existant...

they can R2P2 or see if one of the greatest QB's ever can make something happen...they choose the latter and more INT's have to happen

seriously...it's not too hard to comprehend, is it?

but hey...when they choked against the Chargers I still had them as division winners and Super Bowl favorites...

because they are, and will be

Pats 2:1
Colts 3:1

chiefzilla1501
12-26-2010, 10:20 PM
Brady is great...better QB this year no doubt

but he does have a ground game...

and lets be honest

dude gets 10 seconds back in the pocket...it's ridiculous...back to 2007 Pats

he hops around like a little bunny rabbit waiting for his little bunny rabbit receivers to get open...no one touches him

I'm only interjecting because I think anyone who claims that one is great and not the other is ridiculous. They're both phenomenal QBs and I think are pretty much a wash.

But if you want to talk about surrounding talent, Brady made the AFC Championship game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as his two top two targets. Let's not be ridiculous about supporting talent.

And Brady has the time he has in the pocket because he is the absolute best in the biz and picking up blitzes and moving around in the pocket. Better than Peyton. Peyton is better at some things, but Brady is better in those respects. That same o-line didn't look nearly as dominant when Cassel started in front of them.

milkman
12-26-2010, 10:21 PM
Brady is great...better QB this year no doubt

but he does have a ground game...

and lets be honest

dude gets 10 seconds back in the pocket...it's ridiculous...back to 2007 Pats

he hops around like a little bunny rabbit waiting for his little bunny rabbit receivers to get open...no one touches him

You've always painted this picture of Manning as some super spectacular QB who makes his O-Line look better than they are.

But the fact is, he's struggled this year relative to his normal season because of teh fact that he lost Jake Scott a couple of years ago and Ryan Lilja this year.

Those guys gave him time in the pocket.
Manning does make hi line better, but not nearly to the extent you have always painted.

Brady, however, is the best, and has always been the best at making his line look better.

He has an uncanny ability to slide in the pocket to avoid pressure.

Hootie
12-26-2010, 10:21 PM
It's not that others can't appreciate great QB play. It's that you're wrong in your comparison here. Brady is better than Manning, and he has been for most of his career.

Brady is, without a doubt, having a better season than Manning...

But he is not the better QB...and hasn't been for most of his career...

That's just blind homerism...

but shit, it changes with the people on this board without the ability to think for themselves on a yearly basis...

last year Peyton got like 85% of the votes in my annual poll...

this year I'm sure those 85% will be on Brady...

but if you watch Peyton play and watch Brady play you'll know who the better QB is...not rocket science

kysirsoze
12-26-2010, 10:22 PM
OTWP called me retarded for saying this 2 weeks ago, but there's at least a 50% chance that MC finishes in the top 10 of the MVP voting.

Don't they only do 1st place votes for MVP? You really think Cassel will draw a 1st place MVP vote?

ChiefsCountry
12-26-2010, 10:22 PM
You better throw Big Ben in that mix. Bc when the playoffs hit, he steps it up. No QB in the league is better in the clutch that Rothsliberger.

Just Passin' By
12-26-2010, 10:22 PM
for 4 straight seasons he had 10, 10, 10 and 9 INTs

and that's while slinging the ball all over the place and with COMPETENT running games...

the Colts can't run the ball this year and it makes Manning's windows for throws almost non-existant...

they can R2P2 or see if one of the greatest QB's ever can make something happen...they choose the latter and more INT's have to happen

seriously...it's not too hard to comprehend, is it?

but hey...when they choked against the Chargers I still had them as division winners and Super Bowl favorites...

because they are, and will be

Pats 2:1
Colts 3:1

Yes, if you ignore the reality of what's going on, and you ignore the stats as well, you can make Manning look better than he is. Congratulations.

Just Passin' By
12-26-2010, 10:23 PM
Brady is, without a doubt, having a better season than Manning...

But he is not the better QB...and hasn't been for most of his career...

That's just blind homerism...

but shit, it changes with the people on this board without the ability to think for themselves on a yearly basis...

last year Peyton got like 85% of the votes in my annual poll...

this year I'm sure those 85% will be on Brady...

but if you watch Peyton play and watch Brady play you'll know who the better QB is...not rocket science


You apparently don't know anything about QB play. I'll remember that going forward.

Hootie
12-26-2010, 10:26 PM
Yes, if you ignore the reality of what's going on, and you ignore the stats as well, you can make Manning look better than he is. Congratulations.

he had a bad 3 game stretch and they are still going to win their division...

11 of his 15 picks happened in 3 games when every damn player on their roster was hurt...

you think of Collie could stay healthy his numbers would be even better? Of course...Blair White isn't an NFL caliber slot receiver and probably won't even be on the team next year...

I don't know what to tell you...

I do know that Manning has nothing to lose and Brady has everything to lose...so if Manning beats Brady in the playoffs (and I think we'll get to see that matchup)...Manning doesn't have much to lose...

but if the Colts DO beat the Pats...it'll be the last dagger in the argument.

Me...I'll be putting my money on the Colts. Belichick is afraid of Peyton...showed it last year, and even this year to an extent.

cdcox
12-26-2010, 10:26 PM
Manning's had tremendous running games in the past, along with HOF receivers, and he's only been under 10 INTs once.

Since 2003 (as far back as I checked) no QB has thrown for more than 4000 and fewer than 7 picks (Favre and Rogers did it last year). When you go for the big yards, you are going to end up taking more risks and throwing more picks,

milkman
12-26-2010, 10:26 PM
uhm Edge was overrated

he averaged about 4.2 YPC and the one year he went down via injury Rhodes stepped right in and out produced any year Edge ever had...

and my mouth doesn't need to anywhere...I'm sorry you guys can't appreciate great, great QB play...

the command Peyton has of his team in a hostile environment is incredible...he's better on the road with all of that noise than he is at home...

that audible run to seal the game was a thing of beauty

The Colts ground game has always suffered as an indirect result of Manning.

They've committed all their resourses to providing him weapons on the outside through the years, and have never commited to establishing a running game, and the result through the years is a team that has underachieved.

A coach who actually ran that team, rather than deferring to Manning, would have won 4 SBs.

Rain Man
12-26-2010, 10:28 PM
Don't they only do 1st place votes for MVP? You really think Cassel will draw a 1st place MVP vote?

If only 9 people get votes, even zero votes will be in a tie for 10th.

That'd be a good way to win a bet, now that I think about it.

I bet Maurice Leggett is in the top ten for MVP.

Deberg_1990
12-26-2010, 10:28 PM
The Colts ground game has always suffered as an indirect result of Manning.

They've committed all their resourses to providing him weapons on the outside through the years, and have never commited to establishing a running game, and the result through the years is a team that has underachieved.

A coach who actually ran that team, rather than deferring to Manning, would have won 4 SBs.

heh, this is the exact same thing i always said about Marino. His ego wouldnt allow a run game.

Hootie
12-26-2010, 10:29 PM
You apparently don't know anything about QB play. I'll remember that going forward.

Cool.

A Pats fan telling me Brady is better than Manning.

Where were all of you last year?

One bad 3 game stretch when you're told to be superman doesn't suddenly make you a garbage QB like some of the morons here are trying to suggest...

since the last hiccup in that 3 game stretch...Manning has been lights out and has won every must win game and has now put his team in position to win ANOTHER division title...

anyone really want to bet against them going to the Super Bowl?

It's either the Pats or the Colts (I'll pray for the Chiefs but it'll take a minor miracle)...

and I bet (since Manning doesn't have the pressure) the Colts will beat the Pats...

Chiefs take care of business and we'll get to see a dream matchup of Pats/Colts round 2...and I'll put my money on the Colts and we'll revisit your brilliant position on my ability to judge QB play...

worst attempt at an argument on the board...

"oh you think Manning is better than Brady?? you must not know anything about QB's!!!1!!!!!"

good, solid rebuttal

Deberg_1990
12-26-2010, 10:30 PM
Belichick is afraid of Peyton.

The Saints sure are not....showed it last year.

Just Passin' By
12-26-2010, 10:31 PM
he had a bad 3 game stretch and they are still going to win their division...

11 of his 15 picks happened in 3 games when every damn player on their roster was hurt...

you think of Collie could stay healthy his numbers would be even better? Of course...Blair White isn't an NFL caliber slot receiver and probably won't even be on the team next year...

I don't know what to tell you...

I do know that Manning has nothing to lose and Brady has everything to lose...so if Manning beats Brady in the playoffs (and I think we'll get to see that matchup)...Manning doesn't have much to lose...

but if the Colts DO beat the Pats...it'll be the last dagger in the argument.

Me...I'll be putting my money on the Colts. Belichick is afraid of Peyton...showed it last year, and even this year to an extent.

Belichick is "afraid" of Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers, too. Belichick is "afraid" of every top level QB that gets good O-line protection and attacks the whole field.

As for the "dagger" notion, just stop. Brady's got more rings, he's got a better winning percentage, he's got a much better success rate in the playoffs, and he's even got better (non-bulk) stats, despite playing home games outside and in the northeast, unlike Manning.

milkman
12-26-2010, 10:31 PM
Belichick is afraid of Peyton...showed it last year, and even this year to an extent.

Afraid.

LMAO

Bellichick is no idiot.

His defense isn't anywhere near the level it has been in the past, and he recognizes Manning's ability.

He didn't fear.
He showed sense.

Afraid.

LMAO

OnTheWarpath15
12-26-2010, 10:33 PM
OTWP called me retarded for saying this 2 weeks ago, but there's at least a 50% chance that MC finishes in the top 10 of the MVP voting.

That's because I don't think he's the MVP of his own team, much less one of the 10 most valuable players in the league.

Back on topic, however - he'll go one way or the other, but I'd gladly trade his potential appearance for a playoff win.

Hootie
12-26-2010, 10:34 PM
Belichick is "afraid" of Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers, too. Belichick is "afraid" of every top level QB that gets good O-line protection and attacks the whole field.

As for the "dagger" notion, just stop. Brady's got more rings, he's got more wins, he's got a much better success rate in the playoffs, and he's even got better (non-bulk) stats, despite playing home games outside and in the northeast, unlike Manning.

Brady's win rate is a direct result of having THE GREATEST coaching staff/mind in the history of the NFL.

Manning was going to be great no matter what...Belichick and his coaches developed Brady into what he is today...

and bulk stats??? Hahahahaha...Brady is the king of the 1st and 1 TD passes and short passes all game long to add to his yardage...

This is a fucking joke.

Matt Cassel is LIVING PROOF that Brady, despite being an amazingly great QB, is a bit overrated and somewhat of a product of their system.

It's true...regardless of how much people want to pretend it isn't.

Deberg_1990
12-26-2010, 10:34 PM
That's because I don't think he's the MVP of his own team,

Did you see the way this team played with Croyle at the helm???

Hootie
12-26-2010, 10:35 PM
Afraid.

LMAO

Bellichick is no idiot.

His defense isn't anywhere near the level it has been in the past, and he recognizes Manning's ability.

He didn't fear.
He showed sense.

Afraid.

LMAO

Same difference...

no NFL coach goes for it on 4th there other than Belichick and maybe Haley...

and that's why they are great, great coaches and that's why I'm happy we're the Patriots West...

It's our turn for some rings.

OnTheWarpath15
12-26-2010, 10:35 PM
Did you see the way this team played with Croyle at the helm???

Yep.

I also saw how this team plays when they can't run the ball.

mikey23545
12-26-2010, 10:36 PM
that audible run to seal the game was a thing of beauty

Hell, he looked like one of those fainting goats when he sensed a tackler within five yards of him, and flopped at the three yard line.

Rothlisberger gets sucker punched by a Dlineman, or has his nose broken and just shrugs it off and keeps playing...

Commit2Excellence
12-26-2010, 10:37 PM
The best comparison to Cassel is the year Chad Pennington had in '08 with the Fins. He had a 98.4 rating on the year and completed nearly 70% of his passes behind a GREAT double headed running attack. Neither Manning, Brady, Rivers, Rapistberger, or Flacco have anything close to the running game Cassel has and none regularly see the volume of run fronts and easy reads Cassel does.

Hootie
12-26-2010, 10:39 PM
wow...you guys are dumb

dude fell down to kill the game...

plain and simple...

he could've scored, prolonged the game, risked injury to a special teams or defensive player...or fell down, kneel the ball, and call it a game

but you're right...what a pussy

Just Passin' By
12-26-2010, 10:39 PM
Cool.

A Pats fan telling me Brady is better than Manning.

Where were all of you last year?

Saying that Brady wasn't playing at a "Brady" level, as he was coming back from the ACL injury. What's your point here?

One bad 3 game stretch when you're told to be superman doesn't suddenly make you a garbage QB like some of the morons here are trying to suggest...

I haven't seen anyone call Manning a garbage QB. You're setting up straw men.


since the last hiccup in that 3 game stretch...Manning has been lights out and has won every must win game and has now put his team in position to win ANOTHER division title...

I don't know where you're getting this "3 game stretch" thing. You should go back and take a look at his entire season. After a good four game start, his struggles began and didn't end until the Titans game.

anyone really want to bet against them going to the Super Bowl?

Yes

It's either the Pats or the Colts (I'll pray for the Chiefs but it'll take a minor miracle)...

and I bet (since Manning doesn't have the pressure) the Colts will beat the Pats...

Manning is 9-9 in the playoffs. Good luck.

worst attempt at an argument on the board...

"oh you think Manning is better than Brady?? you must not know anything about QB's!!!1!!!!!"

good, solid rebuttal

You didn't put a single point of any substance into your post, so I responded in kind.

Hootie
12-26-2010, 10:45 PM
Colts won me $400 today

will put at least $150 on their money line in the playoffs when they play the Pats (if they don't stumble in the Wild Card round like they are known to do)

Just Passin' By
12-26-2010, 10:45 PM
Brady's win rate is a direct result of having THE GREATEST coaching staff/mind in the history of the NFL.

Manning was going to be great no matter what...Belichick and his coaches developed Brady into what he is today...

and bulk stats??? Hahahahaha...Brady is the king of the 1st and 1 TD passes and short passes all game long to add to his yardage...

This is a ****ing joke.

Matt Cassel is LIVING PROOF that Brady, despite being an amazingly great QB, is a bit overrated and somewhat of a product of their system.

It's true...regardless of how much people want to pretend it isn't.


Cassel took an undefeated team, was playing at a near Pro Bowl level against an easier schedule, and got 5 fewer wins, and that's supposed to be proving that Brady is overrated?

And the "Anyone can do it" bullshit fails, too, since Cassel is playing at a Pro Bowl level this year, on an entirely different team.

Quit being a dumbass.

milkman
12-26-2010, 10:46 PM
Yep.

I also saw how this team plays when they can't run the ball.

Did you see how many third and longs he converted because Thomas Jones was averaging less than 2 yards a carry in the first half today?

milkman
12-26-2010, 10:47 PM
Colts won me $400 today

will put at least $150 on their money line in the playoffs when they play the Pats (if they don't stumble in the Wild Card round like they are known to do)

LMAO

I bet you can't even see the irony here.

LMAO

Hootie
12-26-2010, 10:51 PM
LMAO

I bet you can't even see the irony here.

LMAO

no Chargers this year to derail them

chiefzilla1501
12-26-2010, 10:57 PM
Did you see how many third and longs he converted because Thomas Jones was averaging less than 2 yards a carry in the first half today?

Last week too. Before Charles' 80 yard run on one of the last plays of the game, the Chiefs ran the ball about 30 times for 100 yards.

The Chiefs have surprisingly turned into a team that uses their run game as a threat moreso than their primary weapon. I can't help but think that in the coming weeks, we're going to see defenses start to loosen up on run D. They're daring us to throw the ball and we're wrecking other teams in the air.

milkman
12-26-2010, 11:00 PM
no Chargers this year to derail them

As it sits now, the Ravens 34 might sub in nicely.

beer bacon
12-27-2010, 12:04 AM
No, I was comparing Cassel and Roth. Cassel's efficiency is excellent, but his production is far lower than the other contenders at 207 yards per game. Roethlisberger is very close to Cassel in efficiency (96.2 to 94.3), but far stronger in production (265 yards per game). Cassel is more deserving in some categories, but Roethlisberger is more deserving in others. The case could be made for either player.

Big Ben has also been sacked 32 times in his 11 games this season. He is responsible for a lot of negative plays.