PDA

View Full Version : Football What Rooney Rule?


Bob Dole
01-02-2011, 10:17 AM
So they are expecting to officially announce Jason Garrett as the permanent head coach of the Dallas Cowboys sometime today. Apparently, you can bypass the Rooney Rule now by simply firing your head coach before the end of the season, appointing an interim, who you then promote to Head Coach without following the process detailed under the rule.

(Ignoring that Bob Dole is pretty sure he read earlier this season that Dallas would have to follow the same Rooney Rule that the rest of the league is forced to follow.)

Rams Fan
01-02-2011, 10:19 AM
I don't think it's been officially announced yet, the Cowboys still have to interview someone to abide but the Rooney Rule(the Seahawks did that last year with Frazier).

mdstu
01-02-2011, 10:20 AM
Just out of curiosity. How do you know they bypass the Rooney Rule?

The Bad Guy
01-02-2011, 10:21 AM
They interviewed Ray Sherman, black WR coach.

Bob Dole
01-02-2011, 10:22 AM
Ahhh. So you can talk to a receivers coach and it satisfies the rule.

Got it.

It just illustrates that it's a stupid fucking rule.

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-02-2011, 10:22 AM
Just out of curiosity. How do you know they bypass the Rooney Rule?

he knows nothing talking outta of his ass they interviewed Ray sherman http://www.dallascowboys.com/team/team_biosCoachExec.cfm?newName=Ray_Sherman

Bane
01-02-2011, 10:24 AM
Ahhh. So you can talk to a receivers coach and it satisfies the rule.

Got it.

It just illustrates that it's a stupid ****ing rule.


Pretty much the way I see it.

Bob Dole
01-02-2011, 10:24 AM
They interviewed Ray Sherman, black WR coach.

And there's someone, somewhere that believes that was a real interview and Sherman had a snowball's chance in hell at getting the job.

Wonder how many other teams will be interviewing him this offseason?

Bob Dole
01-02-2011, 10:25 AM
he knows nothing talking outta of his ass they interviewed Ray sherman http://www.dallascowboys.com/team/team_biosCoachExec.cfm?newName=Ray_Sherman

Right. Ray Sherman will probably be on every team's list of Head Coach candidates this offseason.

chiefzilla1501
01-02-2011, 10:26 AM
Ahhh. So you can talk to a receivers coach and it satisfies the rule.

Got it.

It just illustrates that it's a stupid ****ing rule.

The Rooney Rule was a brilliant rule that has outserved its purpose.

BigVE
01-02-2011, 10:26 AM
And there's someone, somewhere that believes that was a real interview and Sherman had a snowball's chance in hell at getting the job.

Wonder how many other teams will be interviewing him this offseason?


Wow, talk about your "token black guy". How insulting for Sherman too. He had to KNOW that he was just being used to satisfy he rule. I would decline that interview (if I were a non-whitey).

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-02-2011, 10:26 AM
THEY have to interview a black coach in minnesota even if they give Leslie Frazier the job .Now if you wanna bitch.Bitch about that.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-02-2011, 10:27 AM
The Vikings better interview a white candidate before taking the interim tag off of Leslie Davis or I'm calling Jesse Jackson.

Oh wait a minute... ;)

Bane
01-02-2011, 10:28 AM
THEY have to interview a black coach in minnesota even if they give Leslie Frazier the job .Now if you wanna bitch.Bitch about that.

Ron Rivera disagrees with this.

mdstu
01-02-2011, 10:31 AM
The Rooney Rule was a brilliant rule that has outserved its purpose.

This is how I see it. Nothing is perfect, but if nothing else it brought light to an obvious problem.

wazu
01-02-2011, 10:33 AM
Wow, talk about your "token black guy". How insulting for Sherman too. He had to KNOW that he was just being used to satisfy he rule. I would decline that interview (if I were a non-whitey).

Yeah, burn bridges with an NFL team. Good strategy. How about, instead, you come in like it's a legit interview and impress them with your plan on how to take them to the promised land? Does it get you the job? Probably not. Does it potentially impress the organization and help generate buzz around your potential and vision as a leader? Yes. If nothing else it's good practice and gets your name mentioned that much more.

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-02-2011, 10:33 AM
This is how I see it. Nothing is perfect, but if nothing else it brought light to an obvious problem.

The nfl doesn't need this rule anymore.If your a good coach u will get hired .

Chiefshrink
01-02-2011, 10:34 AM
Rooney Rule=Quota PC Bullsh**!!

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-02-2011, 10:36 AM
WHat makes me sick is the nfl could have 2 fat ryans working the sidelines MrMichael_Smith MrMichael_Smith
As has been reported elsewhere, Browns DC Rob Ryan will be interviewed by the Panthers. I expect the interview to take place by week's end.

mdstu
01-02-2011, 10:36 AM
THEY have to interview a black coach in minnesota even if they give Leslie Frazier the job .Now if you wanna bitch.Bitch about that.

Wouldn't the interview with Frazier count? Did you read this somewhere?
Link if possible, Thanks.

chiefzilla1501
01-02-2011, 10:38 AM
Rooney Rule=Quota PC Bullsh**!!

The original purpose is not quota PC bullshit. Nobody ever forced front offices to hire any black coaches.

Black coaches didn't get hired in the 80's and some of the early 90's because predominantly white front offices thought they were too stupid to be assistant coaches. The fact that we find that notion ridiculous shows how far along we've come as a society.

That's why the NFL is light years ahead of the NCAA when it comes to minority hiring. Black coaches were inevitably going to get hired at a higher rate over time, but the Rooney Rule accelerated it. Great rule, but now no longer needed.

mdstu
01-02-2011, 10:40 AM
The nfl doesn't need this rule anymore.If your a good coach u will get hired .

I don't necessarily disagree with this.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-02-2011, 10:43 AM
The nfl doesn't need this rule anymore.If your a good coach u will get hired .

This.

IMO, the NFL didn't need the rule in the first place.

jAZ
01-02-2011, 10:45 AM
Ahhh. So you can talk to a receivers coach and it satisfies the rule.

Got it.

It just illustrates that it's a stupid fucking rule.

Pretty much the way I see it.

Rooney Rule=Quota PC Bullsh**!!

I've been through all of this before, so I'll just copy/paste from last year's thread.


Of course they know who they are going to hire, and the minority interview is a token interview, *but* there is a a very real opportunity for the interviewee to do something real (not get hired immediately).

1) They get exposure to the process at the highest level.
2) They get to make an impression on an owner.
3) They get a chance to develop a league-wide reputation based on a high quality interview and the subsequent talk that always seems to happen.
4) They get to put themselves in a good position for a more substantive interview elsewhere.

You can't force through mandate an owner to consider a minority candidate on par with a rock-star candidate. No one ever expects that the be the case, but it has value even when that happens. And it has more value even when there isn't a rock-star candidate being recruited.

The Rooney Rule is designed to break down barriers that exist naturally. It was designed to give exceptional candidates a chance to make their case when prior to that, they didn't.

The entire focus on improving racial systems by focusing people's attention on the issue in a systemic way though quotas and education programs... has worked absolute wonders over the years. It's not that black people were less capabable 20 years ago. It's that they had fewer opportunities to develop through the coaching pipeline and few opportunities to be trusted leaders.

That's changed dramatically.

As I said before, even the sham interviews, where the candidate will not be hired no matter how great the interview, has very real value both to the candidate, the system and the process.

ClevelandBronco
01-02-2011, 10:51 AM
If Jones intends to hire Garrett, he should walk out on the street, interview the first (How many is it? Three? Five?) individuals with ethnically qualifying ancestors that he sees, videotape the charade, hire Garrett and see what happens.

Rausch
01-02-2011, 10:55 AM
As long as Norv continues to be a HC there will always be a race issue in the NFL when it comes to coaching...

ForeverChiefs58
01-02-2011, 11:08 AM
If someone can take a loser team and help them win games and make a playoff run they will be coaching, it is in their blood. It doesn't matter if they are black, yellow, or even blind winning gets you hired. Rooney rule is stupid. Like saying there has to be a black canidate to run for president each year.

chiefzilla1501
01-02-2011, 11:09 AM
This.

IMO, the NFL didn't need the rule in the first place.

It's been pretty publicly stated that without the Rooney Rule, no way does Tony Dungy get hired. And Dungy, to me, was the guy whose success really opened a lot of doors for black coaches.

It was absolutely needed and made a huge difference.

Brock
01-02-2011, 11:11 AM
It's been pretty publicly stated that without the Rooney Rule, no way does Tony Dungy get hired. And Dungy, to me, was the guy whose success really opened a lot of doors for black coaches.

It was absolutely needed and made a huge difference.

Tony Dungy was hired before the Rooney rule.

Chiefshrink
01-02-2011, 11:20 AM
I've been through all of this before, so I'll just copy/paste from last year's thread.

jAZ still feeling guilty for being white:rolleyes:

chiefzilla1501
01-02-2011, 11:22 AM
Tony Dungy was hired before the Rooney rule.

Good point. I'm trying to remember what the story was. I know there have been several stories about black head coaches who would have never otherwise been considered who got hired because they wowed during the interview. I could swear Dungy was among them. I know Dungy for sure benefitted off Rooney himself, who promoted him to Defensive Coordinator at a time when black coaches struggled to be positions coaches, let alone coordinators.

ForeverChiefs58
01-02-2011, 11:29 AM
jAZ still feeling guilty for being white:rolleyes:

It's really hard to fix stupid.

jd1020
01-02-2011, 11:38 AM
Rooney Rule? Who gives a shit. Dumbest rule there is. If someone knows who the want to hire why the hell should they not be able to hire them immediately?

ForeverChiefs58
01-02-2011, 11:45 AM
Rooney Rule? Who gives a shit. Dumbest rule there is. If someone knows who the want to hire why the hell should they not be able to hire them immediately?

That's what I'm saying. Who cares what color someone is? If they can do the job better than the next guy they will get their shot.

mnchiefsguy
01-02-2011, 11:45 AM
THEY have to interview a black coach in minnesota even if they give Leslie Frazier the job .Now if you wanna bitch.Bitch about that.

Couldn't they just interview Frazier before formally giving him the full time job?

jAZ
01-02-2011, 11:48 AM
It's really hard to fix <s>stupid</s> racist.
Fixed.

jd1020
01-02-2011, 11:51 AM
This is how I see it. Nothing is perfect, but if nothing else it brought light to an obvious problem.

Obvious problem? The only problem is people thinking that because there arent enough minority in a certain area that its a problem.

ForeverChiefs58
01-02-2011, 11:51 AM
Fixed.

Yes, I did't forget about your stupid asss was racist too cause you would change your stance if the minority was jewish right?

Brainiac
01-02-2011, 12:02 PM
Good point. I'm trying to remember what the story was. I know there have been several stories about black head coaches who would have never otherwise been considered who got hired because they wowed during the interview. I could swear Dungy was among them. I know Dungy for sure benefitted off Rooney himself, who promoted him to Defensive Coordinator at a time when black coaches struggled to be positions coaches, let alone coordinators.
I remember hearing this about Mike Tomlin a few years ago.

jAZ
01-02-2011, 12:06 PM
That's what I'm saying. Who cares what color someone is? If they can do the job better than the next guy they will get their shot.

In the other thread, someone sarcastically tried to argue that because there aren't a representative number of white running backs in the NFL there should be a Rooney Rule for white running backs... trying to make the point that it's absurd if it's a white person. If a black running back is better, they will rise to the top. And when (ie, Danny Woodhead, Peyton Hillis, etc) is better, they will. That it should be about ability.

The counter-point to that argument is that the NFL draft process, and in particular the combine and all the interviews they give there... is the systemic equalizer. Even then, it took a Rooney rule to integrate the NFL's player draft/interview/evaluation process.

In coaching, they didn't have a similar process that gives everyone an opportunity to interview and have access to the networks it takes to prove yourself. The Rooney rule has had a tremendous impact on integrating the coaching ranks.

It's a very legitimate question to ask whether or not it continues to be a critical process. As it is fair to ask whether equal opportunity policies/laws are necessary. But to ignore the important role they play in breaking down systemic racial inequality is absurd.

jAZ
01-02-2011, 12:07 PM
Yes, I did't forget about your stupid asss was racist too cause you would change your stance if the minority was jewish right?

Ahh, the reverse racism example. Knew it was coming.

Brock
01-02-2011, 12:09 PM
The Rooney rule has had a tremendous impact on integrating the coaching ranks.

Yeah, you can't prove that.

jjchieffan
01-02-2011, 12:17 PM
Rooney rule is bs reverse discrimination just like affirmative action. If its ok for Minn to name Frazier HC without interviewing anyone else, then Dallas should be able to name Garrett HC.

Garcia Bronco
01-02-2011, 01:12 PM
it's a dumb rule.

mdstu
01-02-2011, 01:41 PM
Obvious problem? The only problem is people thinking that because there arent enough minority in a certain area that its a problem.

The Rooney Rule is not Affirmative Action. No one is being forced to hire minorities, they are being forced to consider them. You could convince me that the rule is not needed anymore, but at the time the NFL thought it was a problem and I agreed with them.

-King-
01-02-2011, 01:47 PM
Ray Sherman says he hasn’t interviewed for Cowboys job (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/02/ray-sherman-says-he-hasnt-interviewed-for-cowboys-job/)

Posted by Mike Florio on January 2, 2011, 3:40 PM EST
http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/rayshermantrainingcamp-e1293503199873.jpg?w=250Amid a report that the Cowboys have decided to make Jason Garrett the team’s next head coach, receivers coach Ray Sherman tells the Fort Worth Star-Telegram that he has not yet interviewed for the job.

Michael Lombardi of NFL Network reported that Garrett would be hired, and that owner Jerry Jones “talked to” Sherman about the job. With Sherman claiming that he wasn’t interviewed, John Wooten of the Fritz Pollard Alliance tells the Star-Telegram that a Saturday night discussion bootstrapped into a full-blown interview would constitute a “sham (http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.com/cowboys/2011/01/cowboys-denying-nfl-network-report-but-garrett-expected-to-be-next-head-coach.html).”

The next question becomes whether Sherman or any other minority candidate will agree to be interviewed. Even though the Cowboys understandably deny the report that Garrett is getting the job, it’s widely accepted that Garrett is the guy. In 2003, former Lions CEO Matt Millen was fined $500,000 when he hired Steve Mariucci after former Lions offensive coordinator Sherm Lewis refused to be interviewed because it was generally accepted that Mariucci was getting the job.

The broader question becomes whether it’s time for the NFL to exclude current members of the coaching staff from the Rooney Rule. If Sherman hopes to keep his job, or possibly to become Garrett’s offensive coordinator, he likely was inclined to play along. Given the clumsy manner in which the situation has unfolded, maybe Sherman will have a change of heart.