PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs Mellinger: It appears KC not big enough for both Weis and Haley


Tribal Warfare
01-03-2011, 12:39 AM
It appears KC not big enough for both Weis and Haley (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/01/02/2556738/it-appears-kc-not-big-enough-for.html)
By SAM MELLINGER
The Kansas City Star

The spin is coming, it’s been coming, all sorts of neatly packaged reasons that Charlie Weis is quitting as Chiefs offensive coordinator to take the same job at the University of Florida.

Weis will stay with the Chiefs through the playoffs, but after that, he wants to be closer to his son. He wants to have his whole family in one place. Or he wants to get away from the grind of the NFL and back on campus, where he wants another try at being a head coach someday. He’s had some health scares recently, and his priorities have shifted away from pro football.

On and on and on the reasons go. You can listen to them all day, and there’s probably a little truth in most of them.

But logic-centered people can clearly see the Chiefs now have a potentially big problem on their hands, bigger than concerns over an entirely uninspired 31-10 blowout loss to the Raiders on Sunday.

Today, even as he’s a legitimate candidate for NFL coach of the year, Todd Haley looks like an impossible man to work for, ego and insecurity driving two veteran offensive coordinators away in a 16-month span.

The Chiefs and Haley will strongly deny all of this, of course, but there is too much circumstantial evidence stacking up, too much behind-the-scenes posturing, too much pettiness to believe anything else.

Weis and Haley never got along, not completely, not in the way that two men need to get along to work the long hours and high stakes of the NFL. Nobody is surprised by this, the young and fiery head coach not becoming BFFs with the older and just-as-fiery assistant who used to be his boss.

It was a shotgun marriage of convenience and personal gain for both sides. Haley got a capable and credible coordinator who allowed him to spend less time in the grueling details and more time in the big-picture duties of a head coach. Weis got a chance to build success after a miserable ending in Notre Dame and do it working with people he’s familiar with.

In the beginning, everyone said all the right things, particularly Weis, who right away even called Haley “the boss.”

But at some point, the conflicts began to bubble. A lot of it became exaggerated gossip built mostly on speculation and secondhand he-said/she-said, but the basic narrative is that both sides understood this would be a short-term deal.

The Chiefs’ offense blossomed this year, particularly with the quarterback Weis said he came to “fix,” and then came a scramble for who would get the credit. Naturally, a lot of it went to Weis, and some within the Chiefs began to talk up the contributions of Haley and assistant Nick Sirianni.

An important dichotomy began to emerge between the preaching about unity and the private efforts to divide credit. The irony is that a clear effort to control the message has now opened room for people to use varying degrees of informed speculation to assess what is now a national story.

The easy thing is to blame egos, and there are some considerable ones at work here, on all sides. But this is also an awful lot of insecurity. Both qualities often help drive ambitious and successful people in all walks of life, but like anything, it’s best in moderation.

Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli declined to discuss anything beyond what Haley said in his postgame news conference, which included the public company talking points about appreciating Weis’ contributions, respecting his decision and denying any conflicts.

The last time Weis took a college job before his NFL season was over, he stayed on to help the Patriots win the Super Bowl, so the Chiefs insist they won’t suffer from split attention.

This is a successful season for the Chiefs, no matter the ugliness of Sunday or what happens in the playoff game next Sunday. Matt Cassel proved a lot of people wrong, and, yes, I’m near the top of the list. Jamaal Charles is one of the league’s best running backs, Dwayne Bowe is now a legitimate star, and the defense is showing vast improvement.

None of that disappears now just because Weis is making a parallel move from the Chiefs to college.

But aren’t you starting to wonder whether the underlying issues that kept Weis from sticking around will keep Haley and the Chiefs from reaching this “ultimate goal” they’re always talking about?

Douche Baggins
01-03-2011, 12:45 AM
Wow, this is the first time I've posted this:

Mellinger nailed it.

Hog Farmer
01-03-2011, 12:48 AM
I never liked Weis anyway. How much good can you do running around in a wheelchair

DBOSHO
01-03-2011, 12:50 AM
Bring on McChild.

Fritz88
01-03-2011, 12:54 AM
Haley isnt much without Romeo and Weis.
Posted via Mobile Device

Phobia
01-03-2011, 12:56 AM
Weis' heart may be in Florida but he left his gall bladder in Kansas City.

pr_capone
01-03-2011, 01:00 AM
Weis' heart may be in Florida but he left his gall bladder in Kansas City.

:thumb:

kysirsoze
01-03-2011, 01:11 AM
So basically Weis doesn't want to work for him so he's impossible to work for. What a fucking stupid article. And he didn't "drive off" Gailey. He fucking fired him.

CoMoChief
01-03-2011, 04:16 AM
I don't know why a lot of people didn't expect this or see this coming.

One thing about highly touted coord, is that everyone wants them.

You don't win Superbowls in the NFL and then coach what may be the most prestigious HC job in all of football (Notre Dame), only to come back to the NFL to the rebuilding Chiefs to be a coord again working for your former subordinate. Sorry, as much as I love KC, that's just not a permanent landing spot for a coach with those kinda credentials/resume.

With Weis' success in this sport, comes with a huge ego. He wants to be a HC coach again I'm sure, and mostly with a huge ego comes with wanting a lot of control. Well, you can have that in the NCAA and with recruiting etc, you're dealing with student athletes as opposed to overpaid pre-madonna's in the NFL where there's ownership, GM, CEO's, boards of directors and all this other bullshit that's up and above the HC's authority.

We all knew that KC was a pit stop for Weis. However I didn't think it would be just after one season in the NFL. I thought maybe 3 years at the most then he would get another HC gig somewhere. But he's won 3 Superbowls....he's coached at the highest level in college. His credentials are too much to stay OC for the Chiefs. His ego is too big for this job. It would be like if Coach K actually took the Lakers job from a few years back when it was offered to him, then failing, going back to college after he got fired from the Lakers and working as an asst coach to Bob Knight at Texas Tech.

jidar
01-03-2011, 04:48 AM
I don't know why a lot of people didn't expect this or see this coming.

One thing about highly touted coord, is that everyone wants them.

You don't win Superbowls in the NFL and then coach what may be the most prestigious HC job in all of football (Notre Dame), only to come back to the NFL to the rebuilding Chiefs to be a coord again working for your former subordinate. Sorry, as much as I love KC, that's just not a permanent landing spot for a coach with those kinda credentials/resume.

With Weis' success in this sport, comes with a huge ego. He wants to be a HC coach again I'm sure, and mostly with a huge ego comes with wanting a lot of control. Well, you can have that in the NCAA and with recruiting etc, you're dealing with student athletes as opposed to overpaid pre-madonna's in the NFL where there's ownership, GM, CEO's, boards of directors and all this other bullshit that's up and above the HC's authority.

We all knew that KC was a pit stop for Weis. However I didn't think it would be just after one season in the NFL. I thought maybe 3 years at the most then he would get another HC gig somewhere. But he's won 3 Superbowls....he's coached at the highest level in college. His credentials are too much to stay OC for the Chiefs. His ego is too big for this job. It would be like if Coach K actually took the Lakers job from a few years back when it was offered to him, then failing, going back to college after he got fired from the Lakers and working as an asst coach to Bob Knight at Texas Tech.

All of that might make sense except:

1: Weiss's time at Notre Dame is widely regarded as a failure, so that's not a bright spot on his resume.

2: Going from OC of any NFL to OC of any college team is a lateral move AT BEST, and honestly it's more of a step down in prestige.

ChiefGator
01-03-2011, 05:26 AM
All of that might make sense except:

1: Weiss's time at Notre Dame is widely regarded as a failure, so that's not a bright spot on his resume.

2: Going from OC of any NFL to OC of any college team is a lateral move AT BEST, and honestly it's more of a step down in prestige.

I wouldn't say #2 is necessarily true. Would you rather be the OC for the abysmal NFL teams like Lions or Bills, or top ten, top five collegiate programs like Florida, Texas, USC. I think that may be a wash.

And would you rather live in Detroit or Buffalo; or Florida, Southern California, Texas.

InChiefsHell
01-03-2011, 05:47 AM
Why does it have to be Haley who is the problem? This article is nothing but supposition with flimsy evidence...they talk about how Chan Gailey was run out of town, but they also forget that Chan was NOT a Haley hire. As far as why Weiss is leaving, at the end of the day nobody knows, but I guess it's fun to assume that there is something evil and nefarious going on...:rolleyes:

milkshock
01-03-2011, 06:07 AM
my take - the hire of weis and crennel in the first place was actually a vote of no confidence in haley - this latest debacle has done nothing to improve his standing.

InChiefsHell
01-03-2011, 06:14 AM
my take - the hire of weis and crennel in the first place was actually a vote of no confidence in haley - this latest debacle has done nothing to improve his standing.

What the...? Hiring really great coordinators means you don't think the Head Coach is any good...

...that might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Marcellus
01-03-2011, 06:20 AM
I am beginning to think we have the dumbest fanbase and writers in the NFL.

Please provide some type of evidence that there is an issue rather than just saying there is an issue.

There are no facts, quotes, or information in this story to back up the opinion. Nothing.

People within Weis's circle did state to ESPN that it wasn't a personality conflict with Haley.

From Weis's lips.
Weis said his relationship with head coach Todd Haley has not deteriorated as has been speculated.

“I almost get offended when people say that,” Weis said. “People always want to look for a different angle for why you’re doing this. Scott (Pioli), Todd (Haley), Clark (Hunt), they brought me in to Kansas City when I was sitting at home in South Bend. I’ll be forever grateful for the opportunity I had to come here as the offensive coordinator and I’ll always wish them well.

“But this decision had absolutely zero to do with relationships in Kansas City.”


They way the offense has splayed at times I don't know that it is a real loss anyway.

Bugeater
01-03-2011, 06:23 AM
I am beginning to think we have the dumbest fanbase and writers in the NFL.

Please provide some type of evidence that there is an issue rather than just saying there is an issue.

There are no facts, quotes, or information in this story to back up the opinion. Nothing.

People within Weis's circle did state to ESPN that it wasn't a personality conflict with Haley.

They way the offense has splayed at times I don't know that it is a real loss anyway.
I think the fact that he is bailing after one season is a pretty solid piece of evidence that something is going on.

But I agree completely your last sentence and I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.

memyselfI
01-03-2011, 06:24 AM
I said this would be a problem with Haley LAST year. At the beginning of the season he APPEARED to have changed but that was only for the cameras and that illusion was shattered with a wag of a finger.

milkshock
01-03-2011, 06:28 AM
What the...? Hiring really great coordinators means you don't think the Head Coach is any good...

...that might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.

hiring really great co-ordinators with HC experience, when your own HC has no experience says to me, yes you are challenging the HC.

look at the no names populating the patriots coaching staff at the moment - no one would dare challenge belichick by bringing in a big name.

FringeNC
01-03-2011, 06:30 AM
Assuming this article is right, and assuming the strife was caused by competing visions for the offense, Weis leaving is only bad thing if he is the better offensive mind than
Haley. Otherwise it's a good thing.

So...for those ripping on Haley...not only does all this speculation have to be true, but Haley attempting to enforce his vision for the offense had to make the offense worse.

modocsot
01-03-2011, 06:44 AM
I guess people love drama. But simply put, if I had the professional accomplishments of Weis, a son going away to college as Weis, questionable health as Weis, I too would make this move. How often do you get to say, "Yeah, I won those Superbowls; now I get to see my son EVERY day as he develops into a football player in college."

The God Hypothesis
01-03-2011, 06:45 AM
I think the fact that he is bailing after one season is a pretty solid piece of evidence that something is going on.

But I agree completely your last sentence and I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.

What if he and his wife are just really close to their son? He is graduating from St. Pius this year and who knows all the ins and outs of that relationship, but the opportunity to go to Florida and set his son up for a coaching career may be too good to pass up.

Why does their have to be a conspiracy? Why not take things at face value once in a while? :hmmm:

Tuckdaddy
01-03-2011, 06:54 AM
Charlie can walk we will be better off next season without with him. Haley know offense really well even though they will hire an OC. If the Chiefs don't drop 50 passes last year his offense and Matt would have looked alot different.

Charlie will get canned from from Florida inside of 3 years. He isn't that good.

RINGLEADER
01-03-2011, 07:23 AM
So basically Weis doesn't want to work for him so he's impossible to work for. What a ****ing stupid article. And he didn't "drive off" Gailey. He ****ing fired him.

I agree.

From this guy to Jack Harry foaming at the mouth last night to others in the national media the party line seems to be that Haley is a world-class A-hole and that's why Weis left. Despite the fact there's no evidence to support it. Plausible reasons (such as nepotism) are brushed off because it just COULDN'T be that easy. It MUST be something deeper. These "reporters" have all failed the basics of journalism - if Mellinger wants to stick his head in the ground and ignore what Weis is actually saying to form his own opinions about Weis REALLY thinks then I guess that's up to him but all these idiots reporting as fact things that there is zero evidence to support and then couching their conclusions with question marks is really lame.

RINGLEADER
01-03-2011, 07:29 AM
Why does their have to be a conspiracy? Why not take things at face value once in a while? :hmmm:

Because it allows the "media" to shape the story and a guy trying to help his kid just isn't as interesting as a feud (even if there isn't evidence to support it).

And honestly, you can't have it both ways. If you think the Chiefs have made strides in the last year and the reason for those strides was the result of the aforementioned conspiratorial feud, then I guess Weis isn't the one who is wholly responsible for our gains to begin with.

The conclusions of this article (like Jack Harry's rants last night and what is sure to be the drumbeat of talk radio today) are just not support by facts.

When Weis comes out and says that he is leaving because of creative differences with Haley then you at least have something to hang your hat on "media". Of course, expecting something like, you know, facts, to support your conclusions is probably just too much to ask. That's why this "conspiracy" is so neatly packaged -- no sane person, after all, would ask for evidence from Weis of what's being reported (out of your azz) and naturally we can't trust what Haley is saying.

:facepalm:

RINGLEADER
01-03-2011, 07:31 AM
Assuming this article is right, and assuming the strife was caused by competing visions for the offense, Weis leaving is only bad thing if he is the better offensive mind than
Haley. Otherwise it's a good thing.

So...for those ripping on Haley...not only does all this speculation have to be true, but Haley attempting to enforce his vision for the offense had to make the offense worse.

EXACTLY!

You can't have it both ways.

If Haley imposing his will on the offense is why Weis left isn't it possible that Haley imposing his will on the offense could have contributed to the turnaround.

Of course, I'm just speculating (like the media has been doing)...

Zeke
01-03-2011, 07:35 AM
Charlie can walk we will be better off next season without with him. Haley know offense really well even though they will hire an OC. If the Chiefs don't drop 50 passes last year his offense and Matt would have looked alot different.

Charlie will get canned from from Florida inside of 3 years. He isn't that good.

Now that's just silly. Weis has a very good offensive mind. He's not going there as the HC.

RINGLEADER
01-03-2011, 07:41 AM
Now that's just silly. Weis has a very good offensive mind. He's not going there as the HC.

Someone should ask if Florida would be as excited to bring in Weis Jr. without the commitment of Weis Sr. Maybe that's where the "conspiracy" is... :facepalm:

tonyetony
01-03-2011, 07:43 AM
What a bs article. Nothing more than lazy speculative drivel. Hey Sammy boy if all you want to do is speculate how about an article on who the next OC is going to be?

Ralphy Boy
01-03-2011, 07:43 AM
So basically Weis doesn't want to work for him so he's impossible to work for. What a ****ing stupid article. And he didn't "drive off" Gailey. He ****ing fired him.

This.

KCUnited
01-03-2011, 08:03 AM
I am beginning to think we have the dumbest fanbase and writers in the NFL.

Please provide some type of evidence that there is an issue rather than just saying there is an issue.

There are no facts, quotes, or information in this story to back up the opinion. Nothing.

People within Weis's circle did state to ESPN that it wasn't a personality conflict with Haley.

From Weis's lips.
Weis said his relationship with head coach Todd Haley has not deteriorated as has been speculated.

“I almost get offended when people say that,” Weis said. “People always want to look for a different angle for why you’re doing this. Scott (Pioli), Todd (Haley), Clark (Hunt), they brought me in to Kansas City when I was sitting at home in South Bend. I’ll be forever grateful for the opportunity I had to come here as the offensive coordinator and I’ll always wish them well.

“But this decision had absolutely zero to do with relationships in Kansas City.”


They way the offense has splayed at times I don't know that it is a real loss anyway.

This. Mellinger's informed spectulation = Nick Wright's Twitter.

Extra Point
01-03-2011, 08:05 AM
Mellinger read jwhit's bump, and regurgitated Whitlock's article. Mellinger followed Whitlock's Pioli-Haley-ego script all season long. SM is now the Star editor's crown prince of acrimony. Someone has to fill that seat. That, or deny Candace Buckner the high school beat.

cardken
01-03-2011, 08:33 AM
I think Haley is a bit of an egotist but who aren't in his position. I think the tell tell sign was how he fire Gailey, despite how bad he may or may not have been, firing him so close to the start of a season, in retrospect looks ego driven.
I would think if I had a man sitting across the table from me sporting three Super Bowl rings, I might be inclined to listen to him. But Pride and Ego are tough animals to tame and keep in check for a lot of people, I guess Haley included.

The Bad Guy
01-03-2011, 08:35 AM
I think the fact that he is bailing after one season is a pretty solid piece of evidence that something is going on.

But I agree completely your last sentence and I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.

Or maybe it's just that a guy who's likely not long for this world wants to spend more time with his family and this is the best way to do it.

Everyone you talk to will tell you Weis has an ego, and while I'm sure Haley is no sunshine and rainbows guy to work with, I think this has far more to do with Weis being near his family than it does Haley driving him out.

RINGLEADER
01-03-2011, 08:45 AM
I think Haley is a bit of an egotist but who aren't in his position. I think the tell tell sign was how he fire Gailey, despite how bad he may or may not have been, firing him so close to the start of a season, in retrospect looks ego driven.
I would think if I had a man sitting across the table from me sporting three Super Bowl rings, I might be inclined to listen to him. But Pride and Ego are tough animals to tame and keep in check for a lot of people, I guess Haley included.

Or maybe he got the first gameplan and found it to be so completely opposed to what he wanted to run that he sat down with Gailey, asked him WTF is up, was told by Gailey that he didn't want to run the offense the way Haley did so Todd was forced to let him go from making future game plans?

The Keitzman-Jack Harry-Mellinger-Whitlock-Wright echo chamber is a complete joke.

RINGLEADER
01-03-2011, 08:47 AM
The best part of this whole thing was Jack Harry and his minions on TV last night saying if Weis shows up at any event announcing his hiring by Florida it shows that Haley has lost complete control -- knowing full well that there will be an announcement today.

Tribal Warfare
01-03-2011, 08:52 AM
Mellinger read jwhit's bump, and regurgitated Whitlock's article. Mellinger followed Whitlock's Pioli-Haley-ego script all season long. SM is now the Star editor's crown prince of acrimony. Someone has to fill that seat. That, or deny Candace Buckner the high school beat.

yep