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KurtCobain
01-10-2011, 11:12 PM
"We(the patriots) have the best coach in the history of football."

Brady Article (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d96fcc/article/brady-downplays-ryans-slight-heaps-praise-on-belichick?module=HP_headlines)

Bane
01-10-2011, 11:16 PM
Chuck Noll says **** off!
Don Shula says fuck off!

threebag02
01-10-2011, 11:16 PM
He has the hardware to back it up. Draft picks galore. And fits the right pieces in the puzzle ALL the time.

SDChiefs
01-10-2011, 11:17 PM
No! I do not forsee us having to win the belichick trophy.

Tribal Warfare
01-10-2011, 11:17 PM
Vince Lombardi nuff said

Rams Fan
01-10-2011, 11:17 PM
I'm taking Bill Walsh.

DaFace
01-10-2011, 11:20 PM
It's certainly possible. IMO, we won't really know until Brady retires. He certainly has a knack for keeping the team competitive through dramatic changes in personnel, that's for sure. The question is just how much Belichick could do if he didn't have a superstar quarterback to lean on.

Baconeater
01-10-2011, 11:21 PM
Yeah, and Brady squats to pee.

RustShack
01-10-2011, 11:21 PM
No, Todd Haley is.

KurtCobain
01-10-2011, 11:23 PM
Yeah, and Brady squats to pee.



http://dummiesoftheyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Tom-Brady-Red-Shirt-Girl.jpg

mnchiefsguy
01-10-2011, 11:41 PM
Chuck Noll won four. Bill Walsh won three, and would have won four had he coached one more year, as Seifert won it with the Niners the year Walsh retired. BB has three and deserves to be in the discussion, but he needs a couple of more trophies to put him over the top.

milkman
01-10-2011, 11:43 PM
All the coaches that would be in the discussion are all guys that had superior QBs.

Lombardi-Starr
Landry-Staubach
Knoll-Bradshaw
Johnson-Aikman
Walsh-Montana
Bellichick-Brady

Parcells might be in the discussion, and he did it with to QBs, one a HoF-Simms, another a fairly average Hostetler.

But one guy who might not even enter the dicussion is Joe Gibbs.
Three SBs with three different QBs, none of whom will ever sniff the HoF, in Theisman, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien.

We also should consider Paul Brown, because much of what teams do today are innovations by Paul Brown, who won 4 consecutive NFL Championships after the Browns were absorbed from the AAFC, which the Browns won for 6 consecutive years prior to joining the NFL.

mnchiefsguy
01-10-2011, 11:45 PM
All the coaches that would be in the discussion are all guys that had superior QBs.

Lombardi-Starr
Landry-Staubach
Knoll-Bradshaw
Johnson-Aikman
Walsh-Montana
Bellichick-Brady

Parcells might be in the discussion, and he did it ith to QBs, one a HoF-Simms, another a fairly average Hostetler.

But one guy who might not even enter the dicussion is Joe Gibbs.
Three SBs with three different QBs, none of whom ill ever sniff the HoF, in Theisman, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien.

We also should consider Paul Brown, because much of what teams do today are innovations by Paul Brown, who won 4 consecutive NFL Championships after the Browns were absorbed from the AAFC, which the Browns won for 6 consecutive years prior to joining the NFL.

Joe Gibbs wons more superbowls with less talent at QB than just about any coach that has more than one ring... would definitely have to consider him in the discussion as well.

Rams Fan
01-10-2011, 11:48 PM
Parcells might be in the discussion, and he did it with to QBs, one a HoF-Simms, another a fairly average Hostetler.



I think Parcells is in the discussion because of the teams he took to the playoffs. Jets, Cowboys, Patriots and Giants. He deserves credit for the Dolphins turnaround in 2008. That's 5 teams he's basically taken to the playoffs.

CrazyPhuD
01-10-2011, 11:48 PM
Easy

Rinus Michels

Hands down no question.

Rain Man
01-10-2011, 11:49 PM
the proper question would decide the second-best coach after lombardi.

what was belichick's deal in cleveland? he got run out of town. does that decrease his score or does it make cleveland look bad?
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Rain Man
01-10-2011, 11:53 PM
top five:

lombardi
paul brown
noll
landry
parcells

good argument on gibbs, though. I wouldn't have thought of him.

belichick might be top ten but you can't overlook the videos and cleveland.
Posted via Mobile Device

Rams Fan
01-10-2011, 11:54 PM
top five:

lombardi
paul brown
noll
landry
parcells

good argument on gibbs, though. I wouldn't have thought of him.

belichick might be top ten but you can't overlook the videos and cleveland.
Posted via Mobile Device

I can live with this list.

pr_capone
01-10-2011, 11:55 PM
Best coach ever is not even on the list.

Doc Louis

http://www.411mania.com/siteimages/doc%20louis_55361.jpg

LiveSteam
01-11-2011, 12:14 AM
Bob Devaney :p
TOM Osborne :p
Frank Solich :p
Bill Callahan :p
MR.Spit & drool :p

Dave Lane
01-11-2011, 12:27 AM
I'd like to know whos better.

Dave Lane
01-11-2011, 12:29 AM
And Rainsmans list is nice but no dice.

KC Tattoo
01-11-2011, 12:41 AM
Marv Levy went to four strait Super Bowls, lost them all. No he shouldn't be on the list of greatest, but that is still something that would be hard to match. Just saying wide right & that's what cost him a legacy. The Bills changed offensive football that decade. I just want to bring up his name for the hell of it. :p

LiveSteam
01-11-2011, 12:43 AM
Marv Levy went to four strait Super Bowls, lost them all. No he shouldn't be on the list of greatest, but that is still something that would be hard to match. Just saying wide right & that's what cost him a legacy. The Bills changed offensive football that decade. I just want to bring up his name for the hell of it. :p

Its a good point. Jim Kelly was awesome Andrea Reed wasn't bad either.
but I hated them

cdcox
01-11-2011, 02:32 AM
Paul Brown - invented the modern NFL. All coaching trees go back to him.
Vince Lombardi - perfected it
Bill Walsh - a brain so big it made his forehead protrude
Bill Bellichick - reinvented the dynasty when no one said it could be done (or a dirty version of VL).
Chuck Noll - his last 12 years of coaching tarnished his reputation. Few innovations. No significant coaching tree, other than Dungee. He drafted great from 1970 to 1975, then drove the franchise into the ground. If he was a great talent evaluator, how did he manage to drive that team into the ground? Still, 4 rings gives him the #5 slot.

Honorable mentions:

Don (the penguin) Shula
Tom Landry
Joe Gibbs
Sid Gillman

Phobia
01-11-2011, 03:03 AM
I voted yes. People keep pointing fingers at every other person who has gone through the doors in Foxboro as the mastermind behind BB and when they leave, go elswhere, and attempt to recreate the magic; they fail miserably. Meanwhile Bill keeps pumping out wins and trophies with sometimes average talent which excels in his system. I'm not even convinced Tom Brady is the greatest or top 10 or top 50 without Belichick. So, there ya have it. The dude is pretty amazing. I haven't always been convinced but I am now.

If Lombardi was so amazing explain the Redskins.

CoMoChief
01-11-2011, 03:33 AM
I don't think Lombardi would win (as much) in today's game. The game has changed time and time over again. I think you gotta look at it by certain era's.

In this era, Belichick is the best coach.

60's - Packers (Lombardi/Starr)
70's - Steelers (Noll/Bradshaw)
80's - 49ers (Walsh/Montana)
90's - Cowboys (Johnson/Aikman)
00's - Patriots (Belichick/Brady)

It's already been posted, but one thing's for sure. Each great coach and dynasty in their respected era's has had a great QB leading their squads. That helps A LOT.

Fritz88
01-11-2011, 04:59 AM
The question is just how much Belichick could do if he didn't have a superstar quarterback to lean on.

Go 11-5 and miss the playoffs.
Posted via Mobile Device

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 06:50 AM
Vince Lombardi, Chuck Knoll, Paul Brown, Bill Walsh, George Halas might be better. Its not all about your generation, kids.

JD10367
01-11-2011, 06:54 AM
You know, even though I'm a Patriots fan I was immediately going to click on "No". Like the rest of you, I thought of Noll, Shula, Lombardi, Walsh, and the others, and thought, "Belichick might be equal to them and in their group, but I can't say he's better than them".

Then I thought about it. None of those guys had to operate in a world where their players make millions of dollars of Monopoly money. None of those guys had to operate in a world with a million social distractions (from Twitter to easy access to drugs and guns) AND be so publicly accountable for it (as, nowadays, if your player farts in church it's on Facebook in two minutes). Last, but most importantly, none of those guys had to operate in the era of parity and the salary cap. Guys like Noll and Shula could hang onto good players as long as they wanted to. Look at how many times Belichick has rebuilt his roster in the 11-year span he's been in New England. By the 2004 Super Bowl, most of the guys from the 2001 Super Bowl were gone; by the 2007 Super Bowl, most of the guys from the 2004 Super Bowl were gone; by this year, if they make the Super Bowl, most of the guys from the 2007 Super Bowl are gone. Yes, he's had the luxury of the constant presence of one of the best quarterbacks ever to play the game; so has Indianapolis, though, and they haven't done nearly as well. Look at teams like the Eagles and Chargers, who've also had solid QBing and very good teams in this stretch, yet haven't done enough with them. Despite the 16-0 record in '07, I think Belichick's best coaching job has been this year, and second-best might be the 2008 year where they went 11-5 with Cassel at QB and missed the playoffs. Like Brady and Manning at their positions, Belichick is so good at coaching that he makes it look too easy and thus doesn't get enough credit.

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 06:56 AM
Ya might want to evaluate Belichick's record pre-Brady...

JD10367
01-11-2011, 06:59 AM
Ya might want to evaluate Belichick's record pre-Brady...

As a coordinator, Belichick's game-winning defensive plan from the Super Bowl is in Canton.

In his first head coaching gig, Belichick took a shit Cleveland team and turned them around and made the playoffs, beating his mentor Parcells's Patriots.

Belichick was not as press-savvy back then, and made the fatal error of benching the hometown hero Bernie Kosar to bring in Vinny Testaverde (which was the correct move, albeit a suicidal one for Belichick's reputation in Cleveland). Then they announced the team would move to Baltimore, and both the fans and the players turned on and quit on him. That wasn't his fault, and he did very well under the circumstances.

And I bet all those other great coaches have some suck-ass seasons on their resume, too...

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 07:02 AM
As a coordinator, Belichick's game-winning defensive plan from the Super Bowl is in Canton.

In his first head coaching gig, Belichick took a shit Cleveland team and turned them around and made the playoffs, beating his mentor Parcells's Patriots.

Belichick was not as press-savvy back then, and made the fatal error of benching the hometown hero Bernie Kosar to bring in Vinny Testaverde (which was the correct move, albeit a suicidal one for Belichick's reputation in Cleveland). Then they announced the team would move to Baltimore, and both the fans and the players turned on and quit on him. That wasn't his fault, and he did very well under the circumstances.

And I bet all those other great coaches have some suck-ass seasons on their resume, too...

I hear what you are saying, and your points are valid and legit. Just looking at W-L records with and without Brady and you have to wonder. BB is definitely top 10, maybe top 5. I just find it really hard to pick against Lombardi.

Phobia
01-11-2011, 07:05 AM
Ya might want to evaluate Belichick's record pre-Brady...

Good grief. What does a guy have to do? How many SuperBowls does a guy have to win to put a Cleveland debacle behind him? I promise, I'm not a fan of the guy. Don't care. Just think he's a pretty beyond spectacular coach. Pretty crappy guy - I wouldn't want to hang out with him but results can't be argued.

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 07:09 AM
Good grief. What does a guy have to do? How many SuperBowls does a guy have to win to put a Cleveland debacle behind him? I promise, I'm not a fan of the guy. Don't care. Just think he's a pretty beyond spectacular coach. Pretty crappy guy - I wouldn't want to hang out with him but results can't be argued.

Really? How did the same coach do with Cassel at the helm of an 18-0 team? The defense rests, your honor.

Phobia
01-11-2011, 07:11 AM
I hear what you are saying, and your points are valid and legit. Just looking at W-L records with and without Brady and you have to wonder. BB is definitely top 10, maybe top 5. I just find it really hard to pick against Lombardi.

What's he supposed to do, trade Brady? What about Lombardi without Starr?

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 07:12 AM
What's he supposed to do, trade Brady? What about Lombardi without Starr?

What? You've never heard of Zeke Bratkowsi?

http://polishsportshof.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/bratkowski.jpg

Phobia
01-11-2011, 07:12 AM
Really? How did the same coach do with Cassel at the helm of an 18-0 team? The defense rests, your honor.

11-5 is miraculous with Matt Cassel inasmuch 10-6 is a miracle with Cassel in KC.

Phobia
01-11-2011, 07:21 AM
What? You've never heard of Zeke Bratkowsi?

http://polishsportshof.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/bratkowski.jpg
Ok KCJ. Yeah, that's great. You were there. Tell me about Zeke.

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 07:23 AM
Ok KCJ. Yeah, that's great. You were there. Tell me about Zeke.

He was the Earl Moral of the GB Packers. Nuff said.

Phobia
01-11-2011, 07:28 AM
He was the Earl Moral of the GB Packers. Nuff said.

Oh good grief. He played 5 years under Lombardi. He passed for not even 300 attempts in 5 years in relief of Starr - under Lombardi, which is the era we're discussing, right?

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 07:32 AM
Oh good grief. He played 5 years under Lombardi. He passed for not even 300 attempts in 5 years in relief of Starr - under Lombardi, which is the era we're discussing, right?

Oh! Here we go! Invoking stats to prove a point! :rolleyes:

Amnorix
01-11-2011, 07:39 AM
No! I do not forsee us having to win the belichick trophy.


The Heisman trophy is named after an offensive lineman. In other words, its named after someone who, if he played today, could not possibly under any circumstances win the trophy that is named after him.

Amnorix
01-11-2011, 07:40 AM
It's certainly possible. IMO, we won't really know until Brady retires. He certainly has a knack for keeping the team competitive through dramatic changes in personnel, that's for sure. The question is just how much Belichick could do if he didn't have a superstar quarterback to lean on.

Every great coach had his great QB, with the exception of Joe Gibbs really.

Amnorix
01-11-2011, 07:46 AM
Ya might want to evaluate Belichick's record pre-Brady...

Had a crappy team that he turned into a playoff team by going 11-5 in year four.

His owner, Art Modell, however, had no money and decides to move the team, announcing it IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON! When he announced, the Browns were 4-4. They then, unsurprisingly, tank the rest of the season to end up at 5-11, and BB is fired.

Mainly, he was amazingly unpopular in Cleveland, but you can't say he didn't have the team on the right track.

Amnorix
01-11-2011, 07:54 AM
The best football coach ever is Paul Brown, pretty much without question. By and large the entire way an NFL team conducts operations to prepare for a season and prepare for a game, was invented/developed by Paul Brown. That covers the entire operation from studying players in college and scouting opponents and all of that.

He also broke the color barrier in the old AFL.

After winning several championships in the old AFL, the AFL and NFL merged. In their very first NFL game, the "upstart, can't possibly compete with REAL football teams" Browns dismantled two time defending NFL champion PHiladelphia 35-10. They they went on to win several NFL championships.

Don Shula, Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, Weeb Ewbank and Sid Gillman were all coaches or players under Paul Brown.

In the Super Bowl era, I think Belichick is the best ever.

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 07:56 AM
The best football coach ever is Paul Brown, pretty much without question. By and large the entire way an NFL team conducts operations to prepare for a season and prepare for a game, was invented/developed by Paul Brown. That covers the entire operation from studying players in college and scouting opponents and all of that.

He also broke the color barrier in the old AFL.

After winning several championships in the old AFL, the AFL and NFL merged. In their very first NFL game, the "upstart, can't possibly compete with REAL football teams" Browns dismantled two time defending NFL champion PHiladelphia 35-10. They they went on to win several NFL championships.

Don Shula, Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, Weeb Ewbank and Sid Gillman were all coaches or players under Paul Brown.

In the Super Bowl era, I think Belichick is the best ever.

You and I were the only ones who referenced Paul Brown. Let me email you a drink.

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 07:58 AM
The best football coach ever is Paul Brown, pretty much without question. By and large the entire way an NFL team conducts operations to prepare for a season and prepare for a game, was invented/developed by Paul Brown. That covers the entire operation from studying players in college and scouting opponents and all of that.

He also broke the color barrier in the old AFL.


Wasn't that All American Confernce - not the AFC nor AFL established by Lamar Hunt?

DBOSHO
01-11-2011, 07:58 AM
Bill. Name another coach who traded a hall of fame reciever for a 3rd round pick to a team that used him for a month.

Amnorix
01-11-2011, 08:05 AM
Wasn't that All American Confernce - not the AFC nor AFL established by Lamar Hunt?


Sorry, yes. The AFL was formed in 1960 by Hunt and included the original Patriots as well.

I am of course talking about the All-American Football Conference (AAFC), which was formed in the immediate post-war 40s, and soon had three of its teams -- the Cleveland Browns, SF 49ers and Baltimore Colts, merge into the NFL.

The Colts were folded after one year in the NFL, and then restarted a few years later, so technically the current Colts can't trace back to those old AAFC Colts, just like the current Browns can't trace back to the Browns prior to moving to Baltimore.

Amnorix
01-11-2011, 08:07 AM
Bill. Name another coach who traded a hall of fame reciever for a 3rd round pick to a team that used him for a month.


Here's what we're not talking about -- the player personnel skills of Belichick are absurd.

You can talk about great coaches, but many of those great coaches had great personnel people behind them, so all they really did was coach.

Belichick is more like Red Auerbach -- both a superior coach AND a superior talent evaluator and draft handler. Some of these deals BB pulls off are absolutely Auerbachian.

Sofa King
01-11-2011, 08:08 AM
I'm taking Bill Walsh.

Bill Walsh and Belichick are neck and neck IMO...


but a good arguement was made for gibbs, except he didn't do well in the latest stint.

Amnorix
01-11-2011, 08:09 AM
Note, I'm voting yes because I limited it, in my own mind, to the Super Bowl era. Besides, how can I vote no for chrissakes?

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 08:10 AM
Sorry, yes. The AFL was formed in 1960 by Hunt and included the original Patriots as well.

I am of course talking about the All-American Football Conference (AAFC), which was formed in the immediate post-war 40s, and soon had three of its teams -- the Cleveland Browns, SF 49ers and Baltimore Colts, merge into the NFL.

The Colts were folded after one year in the NFL, and then restarted a few years later, so technically the current Colts can't trace back to those old AAFC Colts, just like the current Browns can't trace back to the Browns prior to moving to Baltimore.

Thanks for the historical clarification.

MOhillbilly
01-11-2011, 08:42 AM
brown - lombardi

milkman
01-11-2011, 08:44 AM
I voted yes. People keep pointing fingers at every other person who has gone through the doors in Foxboro as the mastermind behind BB and when they leave, go elswhere, and attempt to recreate the magic; they fail miserably. Meanwhile Bill keeps pumping out wins and trophies with sometimes average talent which excels in his system. I'm not even convinced Tom Brady is the greatest or top 10 or top 50 without Belichick. So, there ya have it. The dude is pretty amazing. I haven't always been convinced but I am now.

If Lombardi was so amazing explain the Redskins.

What is there to explain?

He went 7-5 in his one and only season as the coach of the Redskins.

milkman
01-11-2011, 08:52 AM
You and I were the only ones who referenced Paul Brown. Let me email you a drink.

Post #12

All the coaches that would be in the discussion are all guys that had superior QBs.

Lombardi-Starr
Landry-Staubach
Knoll-Bradshaw
Johnson-Aikman
Walsh-Montana
Bellichick-Brady

Parcells might be in the discussion, and he did it with to QBs, one a HoF-Simms, another a fairly average Hostetler.

But one guy who might not even enter the dicussion is Joe Gibbs.
Three SBs with three different QBs, none of whom will ever sniff the HoF, in Theisman, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien.

We also should consider Paul Brown, because much of what teams do today are innovations by Paul Brown, who won 4 consecutive NFL Championships after the Browns were absorbed from the AAFC, which the Browns won for 6 consecutive years prior to joining the NFL.

Post #25

Paul Brown - invented the modern NFL. All coaching trees go back to him.
Vince Lombardi - perfected it
Bill Walsh - a brain so big it made his forehead protrude
Bill Bellichick - reinvented the dynasty when no one said it could be done (or a dirty version of VL).
Chuck Noll - his last 12 years of coaching tarnished his reputation. Few innovations. No significant coaching tree, other than Dungee. He drafted great from 1970 to 1975, then drove the franchise into the ground. If he was a great talent evaluator, how did he manage to drive that team into the ground? Still, 4 rings gives him the #5 slot.

Honorable mentions:

Don (the penguin) Shula
Tom Landry
Joe Gibbs
Sid Gillman

Both before your dumb ass entered the dicussion.

otherstar
01-11-2011, 09:38 AM
I voted NO. I think it's either Lombardi or Paul Bron.

Why?

Lombardi NEVER had a losing season in only 10 years of coaching and his 5 tiles (3 NFL Championships, and 2 Super Bowls) in 7 years will be hard to top. In his first year at GB they went 7-5 (same as his only year with the Redskins).

Brown won 4 AAFC titlesand an NFL Championship in a row for a total of 5 CONSECUTIVE titles! Plus, as others have said, he was the prototype for all NFL coaches that have come after him.

I don't think the arguments about eras holds much water. Every person is a product of their times. Were Lombardi alive and of coaching age today, and had the same talent with football that he had and the same ability to coach and motivate players (albeit using methods more appropriate to todays player), he'd still be a winner. It would be comparable to saying that Jimi Hendrix was one of the best guitar players of the 1960's, but not one of the best of all time.

KC Tattoo
01-11-2011, 09:39 AM
Havn't seen a thread on this so it may not be that big of a deal. On Sports Center there talking about good ol Rex Ryan making it personal against BB. Ha ha BB says he nore Rex aren't out on the field throwing blocks or making plays. He just blowes it off & Rex is looking like as ASS. I think BB is one hell of a coach. In this era he is the best. They have been the most consistant at being a competitive team and really have just dominated the league for a long time. Am hopeing BB puts Rex in his place this weekend.

They draft well and develop players as they go a long. He is a chess player that makes moves two or three steps ahead.

Brock
01-11-2011, 09:39 AM
I would put Noll and Walsh ahead of him for sure. I wasn't around for Brown or Lombardi, but the league wasn't as big or as competitive back then maybe, IMO.

MOhillbilly
01-11-2011, 09:46 AM
Bill Walsh and Belichick are neck and neck IMO...


but a good arguement was made for gibbs, except he didn't do well in the latest stint.

those teams were pretty damn decent.

milkman
01-11-2011, 09:53 AM
I would put Noll and Walsh ahead of him for sure. I wasn't around for Brown or Lombardi, but the league wasn't as big or as competitive back then maybe, IMO.

Until the salary cap and free agency era, teams could hold onto players for as long as they wanted them.

The dynasties of the 60s, 70s and 80s were teams that had to contend with other great teams.

And because the talent wasn't stretched so far, even the bad teams weren't as pathetic as the bad teams today.

KurtCobain
09-12-2011, 09:33 PM
And the best Quarterback ever.

Dr. Facebook Fever
09-12-2011, 09:44 PM
And the best Quarterback ever.

Bill Belichick is the greatest QB ever?

KurtCobain
09-12-2011, 09:47 PM
Bill Belichick is the greatest QB ever?

Not even a question.

kysirsoze
09-12-2011, 09:51 PM
Too bad he had to cheat. Makes it difficult to know how legitimately great he is.

DonTellMeShowMe
09-12-2011, 09:51 PM
I'm taking Bill Walsh.

\thread

KurtCobain
09-12-2011, 09:52 PM
Too bad he had to cheat. Makes it difficult to know how legitimately great he is.

Regardless he won three superbowls and started Tom Brady.

Backwards Masking
09-12-2011, 09:58 PM
Too bad he had to cheat. Makes it difficult to know how legitimately great he is.

Yep. And the tuck rule, though out of his control, mars one of the rings in the eyes of some.

I often wonder how legitimately great Jimmy Johnson would have been if he had stayed on in Dallas a few more years instead of getting canned after 2 straight rings. The team he built won another won without him. And although the 9ers were damn good the year in between, Jimmy may have been able to make the difference in that championship and could have easily won 4 straight. We'll never know thanks to Jerry Jones.

I guess he did have that awful stint in Miami though.

Amnorix
09-12-2011, 10:00 PM
Too bad he had to cheat. Makes it difficult to know how legitimately great he is.



:rolleyes:

Ace Gunner
09-12-2011, 10:02 PM
Bill Walsh

kysirsoze
09-12-2011, 10:05 PM
:rolleyes:

Roll your eyes all you want. I'd probably marginalize something like that, too. If the Chiefs finally dragged themselves out of the shitter and won a few SBs, I wouldn't want to hear that shit.

I'm not going to start a debate about how impactiful it was. That's immaterial. To some level, however, he cheated. That tarnishes his legacy at least enough to say he isn't the best ever. I'm not saying he isn't great.

Ace Gunner
09-12-2011, 10:09 PM
Yep. And the tuck rule, though out of his control, mars one of the rings in the eyes of some.

I often wonder how legitimately great Jimmy Johnson would have been if he had stayed on in Dallas a few more years instead of getting canned after 2 straight rings. The team he built won another won without him. And although the 9ers were damn good the year in between, Jimmy may have been able to make the difference in that championship and could have easily won 4 straight. We'll never know thanks to Jerry Jones.

I guess he did have that awful stint in Miami though.

JJ timed his exit perfect. They tanked.

Backwards Masking
09-12-2011, 10:10 PM
JJ timed his exit perfect. They tanked.

LMAO he sure was smart wasn't he!

Amnorix
09-12-2011, 10:21 PM
Roll your eyes all you want. I'd probably marginalize something like that, too. If the Chiefs finally dragged themselves out of the shitter and won a few SBs, I wouldn't want to hear that shit.

I'm not going to start a debate about how impactiful it was. That's immaterial. To some level, however, he cheated. That tarnishes his legacy at least enough to say he isn't the best ever. I'm not saying he isn't great.

When guys like Bill Cowher (who we repeatedly beat in the playoffs), Jimmy Johnson and such say "you gotta be kidding me, this is no big deal, then yeah, it's no big deal. It's something for Patriots haters to glom onto.

Backwards Masking
09-12-2011, 10:27 PM
When guys like Bill Cowher (who we repeatedly beat in the playoffs), Jimmy Johnson and such say "you gotta be kidding me, this is no big deal, then yeah, it's no big deal. It's something for Patriots haters to glom onto.

How dare you put Cowher (a playoff choke artist) ahead of Johnson in a sentence! You have a point though, the haters are always gonna use that stuff to push him farther down the list even though legit ex coahes say otherwise.

Billichick's Top 3 in my book for the record, but not #1.

Crush
09-13-2011, 02:12 AM
Paul Brown is the best coach ever IMO.

Amnorix
09-13-2011, 07:25 AM
Paul Brown is the best coach ever IMO.


Bill Belichick agrees with you.

Predarat
09-13-2011, 09:01 AM
He is gettting close, im fairly sure I would put him in my top 5.