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DenverChief
01-10-2011, 10:48 PM
So I listen to a lot of Denver sports radio and today they spent a lot of time talking about the Chiefs/Ravens game and basically ripped into Matt Cassel as being a HS QB. They were saying he wasn't watching WR's run routes but was watching the pass rush, which is why he couldn't find many WIDE OPEN WR's. Basically the Ravens D was swimming in his head and a pro QB can't let an opposing D get in his head especially one who should be considered a "veteran."

Also ripped into Haley about stripping Weis of playcalling in 2nd half. Said that in addition to Cassel was the sole reason for the loss.

Talked about Jamal Charles and how is he a baller and should be a great player for years to come.

Just thought it was interesting to hear their perspective on the game, I didn't really watch Cassel that closely was wondering if anyone else got that impression?

Rain Man
01-10-2011, 10:59 PM
some sports guy in north carolina today was saying all the games were good this weekend except kc-bal. he went on and on about how kc got 'dissected' and blown out. I wish these guys would watch the games before they talk.

I think a strong pass rush rattles cassel more than most. I also think he had no open receivers all day. charles is obviously a gamer but i'm starting to worry about his longevity. he got hurt thrice a game the last few games.
Posted via Mobile Device

Rain Man
01-10-2011, 11:01 PM
oh, and I hope the reason charles got no carries was because he was hurt. otherwise i'll be ticked at whoever called the plays.
Posted via Mobile Device

Reaper16
01-10-2011, 11:01 PM
some sports guy in north carolina today was saying all the games were good this weekend except kc-bal. he went on and on about how kc got 'dissected' and blown out. I wish these guys would watch the games before they talk.

I think a strong pass rush rattles cassel more than most. I also think he had no open receivers all day. charles is obviously a gamer but iabm starting to worry about his longevity. he got hurt thrice a game the last few games.
Posted via Mobile Device
:spock:

DenverChief
01-10-2011, 11:02 PM
some sports guy in north carolina today was saying all the games were good this weekend except kc-bal. he went on and on about how kc got 'dissected' and blown out. I wish these guys would watch the games before they talk.

I think a strong pass rush rattles cassel more than most. I also think he had no open receivers all day. charles is obviously a gamer but iabm starting to worry about his longevity. he got hurt thrice a game the last few games.
Posted via Mobile Device

I saw a couple of times he had wide open WR's especially Kevin Curtis only to try and squeeze one into Moeaki or throw a bad pass to the RB. I don't think he ever looked for Bowe

DaneMcCloud
01-10-2011, 11:02 PM
some sports guy in north carolina today was saying all the games were good this weekend except kc-bal. he went on and on about how kc got 'dissected' and blown out. I wish these guys would watch the games before they talk.

30-7 in the first round of the playoffs isn't a blowout.

It's a complete and utter embarrassment.

BossChief
01-10-2011, 11:03 PM
I mentioned this in my post once I got to a rest stop after the game.

He was staring at the pass rush after his first read was covered and Im not sure he even so much as looked at Bowe in the second half.

Contrary to popular belief, Bowe was "NFL open" on at least 4 or 5 plays and was working against a 8-10 yard cushion for much of the second half and no play calling was made to take advantage of it whatsoever.

This game was disappointing on many levels.

DenverChief
01-10-2011, 11:06 PM
I mentioned this in my post once I got to a rest stop after the game.

He was staring at the pass rush after his first read was covered and Im not sure he even so much as looked at Bowe in the second half.

Contrary to popular belief, Bowe was "NFL open" on at least 4 or 5 plays and was working against a 8-10 yard cushion for much of the second half and no play calling was made to take advantage of it whatsoever.

This game was disappointing on many levels.

This makes me sad, the fact that we spent eleventy billion dollars on a guy that is afraid to take a hit

RustShack
01-10-2011, 11:06 PM
There was one play where Bowe had his man beat deep... but it was dumped short instead to McCluster I believe it was... IDK if Bowe was too far down by the time Cassel seen it or what.

There was also ONE time I seen Cassel starting Bowe down(pretty early), but Bowe fell down.

Guru
01-10-2011, 11:07 PM
I saw a couple of times he had wide open WR's especially Kevin Curtis only to try and squeeze one into Moeaki or throw a bad pass to the RB. I don't think he ever looked for BoweAbsolutely

I mentioned this in my post once I got to a rest stop after the game.

He was staring at the pass rush after his first read was covered and Im not sure he even so much as looked at Bowe in the second half.

Contrary to popular belief, Bowe was "NFL open" on at least 4 or 5 plays and was working against a 8-10 yard cushion for much of the second half and no play calling was made to take advantage of it whatsoever.

This game was disappointing on many levels.Bowe was wide open on at least 4 occasions that he would have scored. Cassel rarely even looked his way and the only time I thought he was throwing to him he crammed it in to Moeaki.

DenverChief
01-10-2011, 11:14 PM
Bowe was wide open on at least 4 occasions that he would have scored. Cassel rarely even looked his way and the only time I thought he was throwing to him he crammed it in to Moeaki.

Bizzzare. I would have thought the first game after the appendectomy that he would have been jumpy but it seemed to get progressively worse each game after the first...

Rain Man
01-10-2011, 11:15 PM
it was 10-7 at halftime only because they got a last second td. you can say they blew us out in the second half primarily because of turnovers but I think it's inaccurate to imply that this never was a contest. at halftime I really thought we were going to win.
Posted via Mobile Device

DenverChief
01-10-2011, 11:19 PM
it was 10-7 at halftime only because they got a last second td. you can say they blew us out in the second half primarily because of turnovers but I think it's inaccurate to imply that this never was a contest. at halftime I really thought we were going to win.
Posted via Mobile Device

Agreed. Our defense has improved by leaps and bounds.

Is it too late to bring in DeBerg to toughen him up a bit?

stevieray
01-10-2011, 11:19 PM
This makes me sad, the fact that we spent eleventy billion dollars on a guy that is afraid to take a hit

:rolleyes:

and Bowe was open FOUR WHOLE TIMES!

DenverChief
01-10-2011, 11:21 PM
:rolleyes:

Stooges:Scanlon:

BossChief
01-10-2011, 11:22 PM
it was 10-7 at halftime only because they got a last second td. you can say they blew us out in the second half primarily because of turnovers but I think it's inaccurate to imply that this never was a contest. at halftime I really thought we were going to win.
Posted via Mobile Device
absolutely.

Then the second half started...damn.

nightmare second half by all intents and purposes.

Guru
01-10-2011, 11:29 PM
it was 10-7 at halftime only because they got a last second td. you can say they blew us out in the second half primarily because of turnovers but I think it's inaccurate to imply that this never was a contest. at halftime I really thought we were going to win.
Posted via Mobile DeviceYeah, at half I still felt like we would win it as well. That fourth and a foot killed us.

beach tribe
01-10-2011, 11:31 PM
After what happened against oakland, and continued against Balt, any QB would be thinking about the rush. Bowe was covered, and no one else was open. The whole team got blasted. I still have faith that this organization will continue to improve, and add key pieces.
Some of you just didn't listen when Haley told you that this was not a good team yet. but I'd be willing to bet anything that they will be.
I'm sorry that you all thought we could go from 4-12 to SB contender. Maybe you should be more realistic, and maybe a little more patient. We WILL get there.

BossChief
01-10-2011, 11:33 PM
Laugh at this all you want but the team lost its momentum the more and more they realized that Cassel wasnt gonna do a damn thing to help this team.

We needed a good quarterback to win that game in the second half and what we have is a guy that went into a shell and had the body language of a guy that is NOT a leader when you need one the most.

Guru
01-10-2011, 11:35 PM
After what happened against oakland, and continued against Balt, any QB would be thinking about the rush. Bowe was covered, and no one else was open. The whole team got blasted. I still have faith that this organization will continue to improve, and add key pieces.
Some of you just didn't listen when Haley told you that this was not a good team yet. but I'd be willing to bet anything that they will be.
I'm sorry that you all thought we could go from 4-12 to SB contender. Maybe you should be more realistic, and maybe a little more patient. We WILL get there.Who the fuck thought we were winning a SB this year? A lot of us thought we had a chance in this game but that was about it.

BossChief
01-10-2011, 11:38 PM
After what happened against oakland, and continued against Balt, any QB would be thinking about the rush. Bowe was covered, and no one else was open. The whole team got blasted. I still have faith that this organization will continue to improve, and add key pieces.
Some of you just didn't listen when Haley told you that this was not a good team yet. but I'd be willing to bet anything that they will be.
I'm sorry that you all thought we could go from 4-12 to SB contender. Maybe you should be more realistic, and maybe a little more patient. We WILL get there.

The bolded part is just dead wrong as well.

Moeaki was getting enough separation to be a effective weapon and Curtis was open on more plays than he was actually covered.

The problem was that Cassel wasnt looking at them, he was looking at the pass rush and EVERYONE on their defense knew it.

In order of "blame" in my eyes:

1) Cassel
2) Weis/playcalling.
3) Receivers

Its simply inexcusable to have a game where Charles only gets 9 carries, Bowe doesn't get a single throw in his direction and we put ourselves in a position of trying to be something we aren't to try and win.

BossChief
01-10-2011, 11:40 PM
The bolded part is just dead wrong as well.

Moeaki was getting enough separation to be a effective weapon and Curtis was open on more plays than he was actually covered.

The problem was that Cassel wasnt looking at them, he was looking at the pass rush and EVERYONE on their defense knew it.

In order of "blame" in my eyes:

1) Cassel
2) Weis/playcalling.
3) Receivers

Its simply inexcusable to have a game where Charles only gets 9 carries, Bowe doesn't get a single throw in his direction and we put ourselves in a position of trying to be something we aren't to try and win.

We need to get better by leaps and bounds in this offseason because the blueprint to completely shut down our current offense is out there for all to see.

Oakland
San Diego
Baltimore

rtmike
01-10-2011, 11:41 PM
Also ripped into Haley about stripping Weis of playcalling in 2nd half. Said that in addition to Cassel was the sole reason for the loss.


Enough already, Haley didn't take over playcalling. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6009184)

Guru
01-10-2011, 11:42 PM
We need to get better by leaps and bounds in this offseason because the blueprint to completely shut down our current offense is out there for all to see.

Oakland
San Diego
BaltimoreSan Diego? WTF? Croyle started that game and the coaching staff didn't even try to be competitive. They didn't shut anything down that didn't want to be shut down on its own.

Bugeater
01-10-2011, 11:42 PM
it was 10-7 at halftime only because they got a last second td. you can say they blew us out in the second half primarily because of turnovers but I think it's inaccurate to imply that this never was a contest. at halftime I really thought we were going to win.
Posted via Mobile Device
They were blowing us out on the field for nearly the entire game, it just wasn't showing on the scoreboard.

stevieray
01-10-2011, 11:43 PM
Its simply inexcusable to have a game where Charles only gets 9 carries, Bowe doesn't get a single throw in his direction and we put ourselves in a position of trying to be something we aren't to try and win.

Those all could be attributed to Weis.

Bugeater
01-10-2011, 11:45 PM
Enough already, Haley didn't take over playcalling. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6009184)
Yeah, because no one in the organization has any reason to lie about it.

stevieray
01-10-2011, 11:48 PM
The bolded part is just dead wrong as well.

Moeaki was getting enough separation to be a effective weapon and Curtis was open on more plays than he was actually covered.


.

so a guy who walked off the street was running better routes and getting better separation than Bowe?

BossChief
01-10-2011, 11:48 PM
Those all could be attributed to Weis.

This, I can agree with to an extent.

Bowe ran almost the whole second half with a 8-10 yard cushion and Weis didnt call a single quick slant to try and get him into the game. If we had ran a couple quick slants, that 4th and a foot play call may have worked.

It was a VERY disappointingly played and coached game, offensively.

stevieray
01-10-2011, 11:50 PM
Yeah, because no one in the organization has any reason to lie about it.

:spock: sounds like you could use a break...

BossChief
01-10-2011, 11:55 PM
so a guy who walked off the street was running better routes and getting better separation than Bowe?

..that would indicate your last paragraph could be attributed to Weis, or Curtis is simply better than DB.

...it all start in the trenches. always will.

Curtis was getting more separation than anyone on the field, well, for us anyway.

I am 100% in belief that if we had a good quarterback, that was mentally strong and had the heart to step his game up in his biggest game of his career, Curtis could have gotten 75 yards, Moeaki could have gotten 60+ and Bowe could have had at least 4 catches and 2 of them would have scored. Once those things happen, the running game opens up.

Trouble is that we have a quarterback that still plays like a rookie/second year player and a OC that mailed the game in.

I went into the game prepared for a loss, but thought it would be a low scoring game that we would have a chance to win if we scored 17 points and if the offense did its job (regardless of blame) that could very well have happened.

JMO

As far as the trenches go, we did a lot better than I thought we would. We actually had some good success running against their front until Charles got hurt and Cassel had time to make plays...we just didnt execute. Once we made ourselves one dimensional, it was over.

I soooo desperately want a quarterback that can lead us to a victory in games like this one...disappointing performance.

Bugeater
01-10-2011, 11:57 PM
:spock: sounds like you could use a break...
Well I, along with everyone else, am getting an 8 month long one. I just get irritated with this "it's all good here" attitude coming out of One Arrowhead, it reminds me too much of a previous administration at a college program that I also root for. If shit was all good Weis wouldn't be leaving after only one year.

BossChief
01-11-2011, 12:02 AM
I am a HUGE Haley fan and think he WILL lead us to the promised land once this roster fills out, but I really hope he learns to make some compromises to retain needed pieces along the way.

I think Charlie Weis and Chan Gailey are two of the better OCs in the NFL and I fully believe that Haley was a big reason both aren't here and that we would be a much better team with either on staff.

stevieray
01-11-2011, 12:05 AM
If shit was all good Weis wouldn't be leaving after only one year.

Weis isn't the barometer of anything moving forward.

BossChief
01-11-2011, 12:16 AM
Weis isn't the barometer of anything moving forward.

How do you think Cassel will do without Weis next year against a list of very good defenses we will face?

I think he regresses and that we have already seen it start.

Tribal Warfare
01-11-2011, 12:20 AM
How do you think Cassel will do without Weis next year against a list of very good defenses we will face?

I think he regresses and that we have already seen it start.

as I said before the guy doesn't have the mentality for a QB, besides the obvious of crumbing under pressure when he does make a good play it's like the very first one he ever made with over celebratory bullshit like jumping into the stands and shit after a TD. In fact I believe never seen a pro QB act like he does after a good play.

BossChief
01-11-2011, 12:23 AM
as I said before the guy doesn't have the mentality for a QB, besides the obvious of crumbing under pressure when he does make a good play it's like the very first one he ever made with over celebratory bullshit like jumping into the stands and shit after a TD. In fact I believe never seen a pro QB act like he does after a good play.

nigga please.

Brett Favre did the same thing...so did many others.

Cassel has many poor qualities for the position but that isnt one I would focus on.

Tribal Warfare
01-11-2011, 12:27 AM
****a please.

Brett Favre did the same thing...so did many others.

Cassel has many poor qualities for the position but that isnt one I would focus on.

Outside of Favre who? what other franchise QB does that shit, if anything the QB is the most emotionally content individual on the field. Marino was fiery and he didn't do that shit. The reason I say that it's part of him folding if he is on emotional roller coaster then how can he keep his composure when the shit hits the fan. Favre is a very very rare case of a franchise QB being able to do that.

stevieray
01-11-2011, 12:29 AM
How do you think Cassel will do without Weis next year against a list of very good defenses we will face?

I think he regresses and that we have already seen it start.
well, considering he's going to be with his fourth OC in three years, I already think he's ahead of the curve.

BossChief
01-11-2011, 12:35 AM
Outside of Favre who? what other franchise QB does that shit, if anything the QB is the most emotionally content individual on the field. Marino was fiery and he didn't do that shit.Dude, its a ridiculous argument IMO. I dont think it matters either way that a gyu that has started 3 years of football after high school and is coming up on 29 years old is a little happier than some other quarterbacks when he is making plays.

The more he does so (assuming he does) the more it will become "business as usual" and he will temper his emotions during games and if he does that he should be able to handle the lows better as well.

well, considering he's going to be with his fourth OC in three years, I already think he's ahead of the curve.

He has had the best coaching that money can but since he came into the league...its not like that should labeled as something he preserverred through or anything...

stevieray
01-11-2011, 12:39 AM
He has had the best coaching that money can but since he came into the league....

doesn't matter. continuity does.

BossChief
01-11-2011, 12:47 AM
doesn't matter. continuity does.

with a player that has played in 3 seasons out of 10 since high school, coaching plays a HUGE part into his development as a player.

Tribal Warfare
01-11-2011, 01:11 AM
Dude, its a ridiculous argument IMO. I dont think it matters either way that a gyu that has started 3 years of football after high school and is coming up on 29 years old is a little happier than some other quarterbacks when he is making plays.

The more he does so (assuming he does) the more it will become "business as usual" and he will temper his emotions during games and if he does that he should be able to handle the lows better as well.


It's been stated by his coaches that he is an emotional guy, and he acts he like it. If he still acts like an 18 year old basketcase of emotion so when he's 32 or 33 he should be peachy keen. It's a personality flaw for a QB, other positions not so much but you must keep your emotions under control. A QB can shout and get pissed if he has rule over anxiety.

DenverChief
01-11-2011, 01:36 AM
I wish someone would post a gif of the 3 picks where Cassel had ALL DAY to pick a WR and instead got picked

aturnis
01-11-2011, 01:59 AM
The TD pass to Ray Rice, I believe it was their second score, was ALL on McGraw. The secondary had everyone covered, DJ stayed home and McGraw should have too. Flacco only had to LOOK to his left, and McGraw was GONE in that direction, he didn't trust his teammates. As soon as he took off, Ray Rice took the vacated spot on the field for a WIDE open TD.

Flacco's second TD was all Ravens. We played the defense very well and it could have easily gone our way, but Flacco made the easy pass and Boldin made a good catch.

The third TD is why I hate John Harbaugh, he did the same thing to us last year. Went for it when the game was already won. 4th and 1, minutes left in the game, up by 16. The classy thing to do is take the TD and not lay it on too thick. Had to go for it though, and our defense was not only out of steam by that point, but out of "want to". They were ready for the day to be done at that point.

The defense played VERY well, except they gave up too much underneath. (Why were the safeties playing so damned deep?) The defense stopped the run pretty damned well 3/4 of the game or more. Forced them to a lot of 3rd and longs, and of course the underneath routes to Rice and Heap bailed them out more often than not. Forced them to kick 3 FG's, and only really got beat once, the other two TD's, as I saw it, were mental mistakes, and quitting late.

A few things did not go our way. A bogus flag on Hali, a real iffy penalty on Berry, Demorrio Williams offsides on a punt, a BLATANTLY obvious hold on Dorsey with Flacco running for damned near a first down on 2nd and long, and Matt Cassel trying to do something and forcing everything. He didn't really have a lot of open receivers though. The times he took sacks, he did a couple times, but he was under some real heat, and on one at least, if he had attempted to throw, it'd been a strip for sure and possibly 6 the other way.

Also can't believe how big of a douche Oher is. Along with a lot of the other players on that team. TJack did get a little unnecessary though. I don't blame him though.

Proud of this young defense. The secondary is sound. The d line is pretty good, would be really nice to get a badass NT but I doubt we find that stud in this draft. OLB opposite Hali would help immensely. Berry played well, but needs to work on defending the better TE's in this league. He gave up A LOT of yards.

The offense is pretty much shit outside of Bowe and Charles. Matt does break down with a pass rush, it sucks. The O line is a liability, especially on the edges, and Weigman may not be back next year so there's always that hole looming. We need a LOT of help at receiver next year. Hope WR is one of the top two picks(along with OLB). McCluster is my biggest disappointment from this years draft...

KC Tattoo
01-11-2011, 04:39 AM
This, I can agree with to an extent.

Bowe ran almost the whole second half with a 8-10 yard cushion and Weis didnt call a single quick slant to try and get him into the game. If we had ran a couple quick slants, that 4th and a foot play call may have worked.

It was a VERY disappointingly played and coached game, offensively.

I never understood why we wouln't throw quick slants to D Bowe much at all this season. He is a big tall target and can fall forward for extra 3 yards if need be.

Thomas Jones WTF?!?!?!?! I think he held us back as much as any thing. Didn't Jones run it on 3rd and a foot before the fourth down flip to Charles? Jones tires are flat, he has carried the rock more than any body in the last five years before the season started. I never got gitty over bringing this guy in. What's bs is we had the number one rushing team in the NFL yet on third and short yardage we couldn't get the job done. That shows that it was JCs big plays and his long runs is what carried this team all season. I'm verry happy with the progress of our defense this year they held it together, but being on the field that much becouse our offense failures to sustain drives was the killer for them.

We have a lot to work on this offseason that's for sure.

Wallcrawler
01-11-2011, 05:23 AM
as I said before the guy doesn't have the mentality for a QB, besides the obvious of crumbing under pressure when he does make a good play it's like the very first one he ever made with over celebratory bullshit like jumping into the stands and shit after a TD. In fact I believe never seen a pro QB act like he does after a good play.


After a post this stupid, just try and muster up enough pride to go ahead and take your own f*cking life. Seriously.

I get being frustrated about the loss, but this is flat out brain damage right here. The least you couldve done before typing that is fake a stroke. The guy cant be a good QB because he gets fired up after a big play?

I dont remember anyone complaining about it while we were winning. The big run for a first down after having surgery, taking a good shot and popping up with a fiery fist pump and scream, yeah thats a total loser right there. No way that guy can lead your team.

Tell you what. You cant even be trusted with the attempt on your own life, the damage to your brain is so bad. Just have your handler come over here and read this so he can hold your head under water until the bubbles stop coming up.

For all of us, pal.

flynismo
01-11-2011, 05:42 AM
Contrary to popular belief, Bowe was "NFL open" on at least 4 or 5 plays and was working against a 8-10 yard cushion for much of the second half and no play calling was made to take advantage of it whatsoever.



That is true. I remember getting pissed because we played him too soft too often.

RetiredNavy
01-11-2011, 05:52 AM
It seemed to me that Cassel had a case of "happy feet" for most of the game. But, when CBS showed our receivers running downfield they were blanketed. As far as JC getting hurt, I believe it happened when he fumbled after that 3 ton defensive lineman landed a big shot on top of him. Belcher, Hali, Smith, Berry and the corners I thought played well. Split decision on DJ. He is a stud LB but Sunday he got stuck in the mud a few times and the RB easily got open for a quick 6-12 yd gain

The Bad Guy
01-11-2011, 06:25 AM
as I said before the guy doesn't have the mentality for a QB, besides the obvious of crumbing under pressure when he does make a good play it's like the very first one he ever made with over celebratory bullshit like jumping into the stands and shit after a TD. In fact I believe never seen a pro QB act like he does after a good play.

And the 12 year old kung fu instructor now likes to play psychologist.

You are such a bold faced lying pig. Seriously. You've never seen someone celebrate a good play like Cassel?

Stick to posting Star articles. It's about all you offer this board, Carradine.

The Bad Guy
01-11-2011, 06:27 AM
After a post this stupid, just try and muster up enough pride to go ahead and take your own f*cking life. Seriously.

I get being frustrated about the loss, but this is flat out brain damage right here. The least you couldve done before typing that is fake a stroke. The guy cant be a good QB because he gets fired up after a big play?

I dont remember anyone complaining about it while we were winning. The big run for a first down after having surgery, taking a good shot and popping up with a fiery fist pump and scream, yeah thats a total loser right there. No way that guy can lead your team.

Tell you what. You cant even be trusted with the attempt on your own life, the damage to your brain is so bad. Just have your handler come over here and read this so he can hold your head under water until the bubbles stop coming up.

For all of us, pal.

He's just pissed because his dad could only play rec league QB at the YMCA.

He's been insanely silent, and like the groundhog weasel he is, he likes to pop up after it's all said and done to be like "see, I told you he wasn't mentally tough" and now he adds that he's never seen someone celebrate like Cassel.

donkhater
01-11-2011, 06:33 AM
I wish someone would post a gif of the 3 picks where Cassel had ALL DAY to pick a WR and instead got picked

Yeah, post that gif, especially the shot from the endzone and you'll see all three recievers in a pattern just standing around with their thumb up their butt. Not one who breaks sideways or downfield or anything---just standing and shuffling their feet. Real tough to cover those guys.

Cassel was foolish to force it, no doubt, but don't act like he missed wide open guys.

Wallcrawler
01-11-2011, 06:53 AM
Im just as upset as anyone about the loss, but this gargantuan drop in approval rating for Matt Cassel is astounding.

Normally, I feel like the term "Team Loss" is usually coach speak to keep from publicly throwing certain players under the bus. In this case, it actually was a team loss.

I fault Matt Cassel for the high throw to Moeaki that got deflected and picked off. It was a bad throw. The tip-pick was unfortunate, but he has to hit that throw.

The picks he forced, this board crucifies him either way on those plays. No receiver open. Okay, so if he checks it down and we punt, people are pissed off with "Captain Checkdown." If he throws the football away "Cassel shit himself" and didnt even try to make a play. He tries to make something happen and it gets picked off. There just wasnt the separation needed to make plays against that defense. He tried to make a play. I have a hard time faulting him for that. Nothing was working, he had to do something.

Keep in mind that it wasnt Matt Cassel that fumbled the football on the drive inside Raven territory going in to potentially go up 2 scores. Matt didnt fumble the football inside our own 30 on 3rd and 26. He makes the smart play there, just dumping it off and not forcing anything down in your own end and it blows up in our face anyway.

He wasnt perfect by any means, but he wasnt the reason we lost that game. Receivers have to get separation, and once that running game got demolished in the 2nd half, the game was over. Bowe didnt even show up this game. People like to make the comparison and say that Reggie Wayne only caught 1 pass for 1 yard also, but last I checked Bowe wasnt lining up against Darrelle Revis. Any team with a half decent corner has been able to take Bowe completely out of the game this year, and that leaves Moeaki and the repertoire of soon to be full service gas station attendants out there trying to run routes.


Bottom line, Matt Cassel came into a gunfight with one bullet, and the powder was wet.

FAX
01-11-2011, 09:02 AM
Yeah ... they myth that our receivers couldn't or didn't get open is just that.

The more I learn about the world, the less I understand it. I wonder if there are any openings for seclusive billionaires. I might be interested in that.

FAX

Lzen
01-11-2011, 10:20 AM
I was at the game and saw receivers get open. Not every play. But there were plays that they were open and the QB has to make the play and not just stare down one receiver. IMO, it is true that Cassel was more concerned about the pass rush.

NWTF
01-11-2011, 11:05 AM
Next year will be the year to determine if Cassel is the Qb of the future. There will be a step up in competition. To this point playing inferior teams Cassel is up to the task and can play at a pro bowl level. Paying equal or better teams he seems to look like a back up a lot of the time. Hes still young and growing so at the end of next season Pioli will know what he has in Cassel.

Frosty
01-11-2011, 11:07 AM
Hes still young and growing so at the end of next season Pioli will know what he has in Cassel.

:spock:

He'll be 29 next season.

FAX
01-11-2011, 11:08 AM
Next year will be the year to determine if Cassel is the Qb of the future. There will be a step up in competition. To this point playing inferior teams Cassel is up to the task and can play at a pro bowl level. Paying equal or better teams he seems to look like a back up a lot of the time. Hes still young and growing so at the end of next season Pioli will know what he has in Cassel.

If I'm Clark, I'm thinking long and hard about his roster bonus.

Cassel needs to restructure and we need an option at QB. I'm sick of the inconsistency. He's not an NFL QB. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you again. Fool me three times, and I'll put a pop in your ass cap.

FAX

TheGuardian
01-11-2011, 11:10 AM
Curtis was getting more separation than anyone on the field, well, for us anyway.

I am 100% in belief that if we had a good quarterback, that was mentally strong and had the heart to step his game up in his biggest game of his career, Curtis could have gotten 75 yards, Moeaki could have gotten 60+ and Bowe could have had at least 4 catches and 2 of them would have scored. Once those things happen, the running game opens up.

Trouble is that we have a quarterback that still plays like a rookie/second year player and a OC that mailed the game in.

I went into the game prepared for a loss, but thought it would be a low scoring game that we would have a chance to win if we scored 17 points and if the offense did its job (regardless of blame) that could very well have happened.

JMO

As far as the trenches go, we did a lot better than I thought we would. We actually had some good success running against their front until Charles got hurt and Cassel had time to make plays...we just didnt execute. Once we made ourselves one dimensional, it was over.

I soooo desperately want a quarterback that can lead us to a victory in games like this one...disappointing performance.

Two guys I work with today pretty much said all of this. That the WR's were actually running free all over the field, and that their whole sections were screaming about it every play.

Yet I was told by the village idiot, aka DJ's Left Nut, that it was in fact Bowe who shit the bed and Bowe alone.

Truth is, the game was too big for Cassel and he shit himself. I remember seeing on at least two replays where Curtis was WIDDDDE open and Cassel didn't even look at him.

Cassel sucks. Fuck him.

NWTF
01-11-2011, 11:11 AM
:spock:

He'll be 29 next season.

Young as in a starting QB and experience. He doesnt have a lot of wear and tear on him. give him another year and see where hes at. If he has the same problems, and goes into his funk against good defenses then yeah its time to look elsewhere for a QB.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-11-2011, 11:14 AM
I don't know if it was on TV, and I don't know if it's been discussed at all, because I haven't been reading the threads about the game yet. It's still to fresh for me.

Did anyone see Dwayne Bowe beat his defender on a post about 35 yards down field on Matt's 2nd pick? 1 on 1 coverage. That was a fucking TD if he'd just got him the ball. I looked at my wife after that and said "It's over".

FAX
01-11-2011, 11:16 AM
I don't know if it was on TV, and I don't know if it's been discussed at all, because I haven't been reading the threads about the game yet. It's still to fresh for me.

Did anyone see Dwayne Bowe beat his defender on a post about 35 yards down field on Matt's 2nd pick? 1 on 1 coverage. That was a ****ing TD if he'd just got him the ball. I looked at my wife after that and said "It's over".

Basically, there is some kind of myth going around that the WRs were unable to get open all day. I don't know why, but it's out there.

The main problem with the passing game seemed to be that Cassel got scared, or something. He seemed to be far more interested in Ray Lewis' snarl than looking downfield. Went with the super happy feet and never looked back.

FAX

NWTF
01-11-2011, 11:21 AM
Basically, there is some kind of myth going around that the WRs were unable to get open all day. I don't know why, but it's out there.

The main problem with the passing game seemed to be that Cassel got scared, or something. He seemed to be far more interested in Ray Lewis' snarl than looking downfield. Went with the super happy feet and never looked back.

FAX

Bingo. I really dont know where the "WRS were never open" myth came from. Baltimore got into Cassels head early with pressure and you basically had the happy feet QB with the deer in the head lights look on his face the the rest of the way.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-11-2011, 11:25 AM
Basically, there is some kind of myth going around that the WRs were unable to get open all day. I don't know why, but it's out there.

The main problem with the passing game seemed to be that Cassel got scared, or something. He seemed to be far more interested in Ray Lewis' snarl than looking downfield. Went with the super happy feet and never looked back.

FAX

Matt missed open receivers all day long. Bowe didn't get 1 target the whole game. Not 1. He was open more than that one time. Matt let the Baltimore D get in his head. And the line did a much better job protecting him than they did against Oakland the week before.

It's very difficult to be successful in the NFL if you're constantly worrying about getting hurt.

TheGuardian
01-11-2011, 11:26 AM
I don't know if it was on TV, and I don't know if it's been discussed at all, because I haven't been reading the threads about the game yet. It's still to fresh for me.

Did anyone see Dwayne Bowe beat his defender on a post about 35 yards down field on Matt's 2nd pick? 1 on 1 coverage. That was a ****ing TD if he'd just got him the ball. I looked at my wife after that and said "It's over".

No man, I was told Bowe didn't beat coverage the entire day. That it was his fault that he got shut down.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-11-2011, 11:28 AM
No man, I was told Bowe didn't beat coverage the entire day. That it was his fault that he got shut down.

Don't believe it. I swear to God, he beat his man on a post 35 yards down field, and Matt threw a pic about 20 yards in front of him. Right in fucking front of him. I didn't understand how he didn't see Bowe back there with 3 steps on his man.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-11-2011, 11:29 AM
Bowe was behind the safeties, he was literally alone with his man beaten. As big of a game changer as the fucking sweep on 4th and nothing.

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 11:31 AM
No man, I was told Bowe didn't beat coverage the entire day. That it was his fault that he got shut down.

I was sitting in the upper level, 9th row on the 50 yard line. No problems seeing ANY part of the field.

Guys WERE getting open. A lot. Including Bowe.

I'll say this about Bowe - and I'm not saying this to defend him at all - but after he was wide open and Cassel missed him several times in the first half, it appeared he shut it down. Seemed he quit once he realized that his QB wasn't going to look his way.

But the idea that Baltimore was doubling him is ridiculous, and untrue.

Guys were open. Cassel was too busy staring down phantom pressure to deliver the ball to them.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-11-2011, 11:33 AM
How about Kevin Curtis on the fleaflicker? That was on fucking TV. How could anyone say guys weren't getting open? WTF?

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 11:33 AM
Don't believe it. I swear to God, he beat his man on a post 35 yards down field, and Matt threw a pic about 20 yards in front of him. Right in fucking front of him. I didn't understand how he didn't see Bowe back there with 3 steps on his man.

He was wide open streaking across the field on the first play of the game as well.

I'm screaming, BOWE! BOWE! BOWE!

And Cassel takes off and runs for 2 yards.

DeezNutz
01-11-2011, 11:34 AM
I was told in the game thread that I was an idiot for saying that you cannot tell whether or not guys are open by watching television, despite the fact that Phil Simms showed a total of three fucking examples of tight coverage on Bowe, as if these accurately captured the game as a whole.

TheGuardian
01-11-2011, 11:36 AM
I was sitting in the upper level, 9th row on the 50 yard line. No problems seeing ANY part of the field.

Guys WERE getting open. A lot. Including Bowe.

I'll say this about Bowe - and I'm not saying this to defend him at all - but after he was wide open and Cassel missed him several times in the first half, it appeared he shut it down. Seemed he quit once he realized that his QB wasn't going to look his way.

But the idea that Baltimore was doubling him is ridiculous, and untrue.

Guys were open. Cassel was too busy staring down phantom pressure to deliver the ball to them.

See this is what I saw. I saw guys wide open everywhere. And Cassel watching the pass rush. That's what I saw.

It's very possible they bracketed him but he still beat the double. The Ravens secondary is not that good outside of Reed.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-11-2011, 11:36 AM
All I can say, is that it's clear Matt is going to be the QB of the Chiefs for quite some time. We're going to need an all world line for him to get us where we want to go. It needs to become the top priority.

Pestilence
01-11-2011, 11:36 AM
I've come to terms that because of this season.....we're stuck with Cassel for at least another year.....possibly two.

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 11:36 AM
I was told in the game thread that I was an idiot for saying that you cannot tell whether or not guys are open by watching television, despite the fact that Phil Simms showed a total of three fucking examples of tight coverage on Bowe, as if these accurately captured the game as a whole.

Not really related, but that made me think of this:

You hear talk about QB's "throwing the WR open."

Is it just me, or do we have the best QB in the league at "throwing guys out of bounds?"

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 11:36 AM
Bowe was behind the safeties, he was literally alone with his man beaten. As big of a game changer as the ****ing sweep on 4th and nothing.

In the replays of the 2nd INT you can see Reed playing very deep over the top of Bowe on that play. He blew by Reed?

Mr. Flopnuts
01-11-2011, 11:37 AM
See this is what I saw. I saw guys wide open everywhere. And Cassel watching the pass rush. That's what I saw.

It's very possible they bracketed him but he still beat the double. The Ravens secondary is not that good outside of Reed.

Spot on.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-11-2011, 11:38 AM
In the replays of the 2nd INT you can see Reed playing very deep over the top of Bowe on that play. He blew by Reed?

He was behind the safeties. I was in the endzone away from it watching him downfield. I'll be very surprised if I didn't notice someone else back there. I'll have to queue it up on my DVR.

Pestilence
01-11-2011, 11:38 AM
Not really related, but that made me think of this:

You hear talk about QB's "throwing the WR open."

Is it just me, or do we have the best QB in the league at "throwing guys out of bounds?"

If the play requires a QB to throw the ball at the WRs feet.......we have the best QB out there to do it.

DeezNutz
01-11-2011, 11:38 AM
Not really related, but that made me think of this:

You hear talk about QB's "throwing the WR open."

Is it just me, or do we have the best QB in the league at "throwing guys out of bounds?"

Don't know. But I do know that we have a QB who does not make those around him better. The common denominator in many of the draft threads has been adding offensive pieces to improve Cassel, and this is ass backwards.

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 11:40 AM
I was told in the game thread that I was an idiot for saying that you cannot tell whether or not guys are open by watching television, despite the fact that Phil Simms showed a total of three ****ing examples of tight coverage on Bowe, as if these accurately captured the game as a whole.

If Bowe was open all the time don't you think the announcers would have mentioned it?

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 11:40 AM
I've come to terms that because of this season.....we're stuck with Cassel for at least another year.....possibly two.


Sadly, I agree.

Pestilence
01-11-2011, 11:41 AM
Don't know. But I do know that we have a QB who does not make those around him better. The common denominator in many of the draft threads has been adding offensive pieces to improve Cassel, and this is ass backwards.

That's because a good majority of us know that this is the only way that this team is going to win at this time. I swore up and down all of last year that we would bring in a QB and we didn't. I'm not going to waste my breath and energy this offseason because I know it's not going to happen.

So now I'm hoping that we bring in talent around Cassel so that when he does fail, and he fucking will, we will have a great base for a franchise QB to win with.

DeezNutz
01-11-2011, 11:43 AM
If Bowe was open all the time don't you think the announcers would have mentioned it?

All game? Yes. But there can be middle ground.

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 11:43 AM
Does anyone doubt for a second that if Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Ryan, Rivers, etc had been playing QB for the Chiefs on Sunday, that we win that game?

Hell, we were only down 3 points midway through the 3rd quarter with Cassel playing like ass.

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 11:45 AM
All game? Yes. But there can be middle ground.

Even if he was open 3-4 times and Cassel missed him, the announcers probably would have said something.

The gameplan was to bracket Bowe and let the front 7 stop the run. It worked. Bowe isn't good enough to beat an average corner and Reed. Charles wasn't healthy enough and/or the staff dumb as rocks to give him the ball. That's the offense.

NWTF
01-11-2011, 11:47 AM
Does anyone doubt for a second that if Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Ryan, Rivers, etc had been playing QB for the Chiefs on Sunday, that we win that game?

Hell, we were only down 3 points midway through the 3rd quarter with Cassel playing like ass.

Maybe, but it would definitely be a competitive game for all 4 qtrs and KC would have had a chance to win that game.

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 11:47 AM
Does anyone doubt for a second that if Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Ryan, Rivers, etc had been playing QB for the Chiefs on Sunday, that we win that game?

Hell, we were only down 3 points midway through the 3rd quarter with Cassel playing like ass.

Nope. Rodgers is going to stop Charles and McCluster from fumbling? Rodgers is going to get Curtis to step up? Rodgers is going to let Charles convert the 4th and 1?

TheGuardian
01-11-2011, 11:47 AM
Does anyone doubt for a second that if Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Ryan, Rivers, etc had been playing QB for the Chiefs on Sunday, that we win that game?

Hell, we were only down 3 points midway through the 3rd quarter with Cassel playing like ass.

We win going away with Rogers, Ryan, Brees, Big Ben, etc.

I'm not sold on Rivers as a big game QB. He chokes FAR too much for me.

Pestilence
01-11-2011, 11:47 AM
I place the blame like this:

Gameplan/Coaching: 40%
Cassel: 60%

Pestilence
01-11-2011, 11:48 AM
Nope. Rodgers is going to stop Charles and McCluster from fumbling? Rodgers is going to get Curtis to step up? Rodgers is going to let Charles convert the 4th and 1?

No but fucking Rodgers would have made the defense respect the fucking passing game. The Ravens knew that they could put 8 in the box and Cassel would fail.

DeezNutz
01-11-2011, 11:49 AM
Even if he was open 3-4 times and Cassel missed him, the announcers probably would have said something.

The gameplan was to bracket Bowe and let the front 7 stop the run. It worked. Bowe isn't good enough to beat an average corner and Reed. Charles wasn't healthy enough and/or the staff dumb as rocks to give him the ball. That's the offense.

While I agree with your overall premise that they're are two best offensive players, Brokaki is pretty damn solid, too. And it was Heap who ****ing destroyed us down the middle for Baltimore.

I believe that we're allowed to use the TE, too.

I think we were clearly out-coached, and I think that Cassel was clearly more concerned with looking at the rush than his receiving targets. Simply put, he is who we thought he was.

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 11:49 AM
Even if he was open 3-4 times and Cassel missed him, the announcers probably would have said something.

The gameplan was to bracket Bowe and let the front 7 stop the run. It worked. Bowe isn't good enough to beat an average corner and Reed. Charles wasn't healthy enough and/or the staff dumb as rocks to give him the ball. That's the offense.

The announcers have 30 seconds to talk about the previous play, and rarely is it going to be about an area away from the ball.

They might mention it once or twice, but as Deez said, you can't make judgment based on that.

I was at the game. With excellent seats. I saw with my own two eyes.

Dude was open quite a bit, and was rarely being bracketed.

DeezNutz
01-11-2011, 11:50 AM
That's because a good majority of us know that this is the only way that this team is going to win at this time. I swore up and down all of last year that we would bring in a QB and we didn't. I'm not going to waste my breath and energy this offseason because I know it's not going to happen.

So now I'm hoping that we bring in talent around Cassel so that when he does fail, and he ****ing will, we will have a great base for a franchise QB to win with.

Exactly. Which is why I voted that QB is not one of this team's top-3 needs, though most should realize that it's priority #1.

NWTF
01-11-2011, 11:52 AM
Nope. Rodgers is going to stop Charles and McCluster from fumbling? Rodgers is going to get Curtis to step up? Rodgers is going to let Charles convert the 4th and 1?

With improved QB play and a complimentary passing game (which was non-existent) to go with the running game those play likely never happen.

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 11:55 AM
Dude was open quite a bit, and was rarely being bracketed.

Even Bowe said he was bracketed. You said he quit in the 2nd half. Yet, it's 60% Cassel's fault?

KC has the dumbest fan base in the nation. Nobody on the team from the head coach to the coordinators to the players stepped up (with the exception of Dorsey, Hali, Berry, Smith and Belcher). It was a team loss caused by poor play from the "playmakers", poor coaching and not addressing glaring needs for several years.

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 11:58 AM
Even Bowe said he was bracketed. You said he quit in the 2nd half. Yet, it's 60% Cassel's fault?

KC has the dumbest fan base in the nation. Nobody on the team from the head coach to the coordinators to the players stepped up (with the exception of Dorsey, Hali, Berry, Smith and Belcher). It was a team loss caused by poor play from the "playmakers", poor coaching and not addressing glaring needs for several years.

Where did I attribute a percentage of blame in any of my posts?

Talk about stupid.

TheGuardian
01-11-2011, 12:02 PM
Bowe probably was doubled quite a bit, but beat the coverage anyway.

This shits on Cassel. I remember one interception where the line gave him AMPLE time. The line really, in retrosepct, did a pretty good job.

Fuck Cassel.

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 12:08 PM
Bowe probably was doubled quite a bit, but beat the coverage anyway.

This shits on Cassel. I remember one interception where the line gave him AMPLE time. The line really, in retrosepct, did a pretty good job.

**** Cassel.

Cassel was 4 of 5 in the first half. That included drives where they were moving the ball but had a fumble and false start to set up a 3rd and long. The playcalling was questionable.

The 2nd half starts with the team moving the ball again and then the infamous 4th and 1 call.

The next drive McCluster fumbles and it's 16-7.

Cassel didn't play poorly up to that point. Yes, he got lucky on the INT and fumble, but he wasn't the reason KC wasn't putting points up on the board.

From that point on he pressed and failed along with the rest of the team.

FAX
01-11-2011, 12:10 PM
How about Kevin Curtis on the fleaflicker? That was on ****ing TV. How could anyone say guys weren't getting open? WTF?

I don't honestly know the answer to this question, but there are a lot of people saying it ... right here on the great ChiefsPlanet board, too.

I think it's like Whitlock and Fescoe and Pizza Man and things like that. Once somebody says something that sounds weird and possibly true, people seem to glom onto the idea and the next thing you know, we're diving headfirst into frozen rivers wearing naught but our undergarments.

FAX

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 12:11 PM
I don't honestly know the answer to this question, but there are a lot of people saying it ... right here on the great ChiefsPlanet board, too.

I think it's like Whitlock and Fescoe and Pizza Man and things like that. Once somebody says something that sounds weird and possibly true, people seem to glom onto the idea and the next thing you know, we're diving headfirst into frozen rivers wearing naught but our undergarments.

FAX

The flea flicker was a busted play where Cassel had to scramble immediately.

FAX
01-11-2011, 12:13 PM
Even if he was open 3-4 times and Cassel missed him, the announcers probably would have said something.

The gameplan was to bracket Bowe and let the front 7 stop the run. It worked. Bowe isn't good enough to beat an average corner and Reed. Charles wasn't healthy enough and/or the staff dumb as rocks to give him the ball. That's the offense.

Honestly, I wouldn't formulate my opinion based on what the announcers say.

Lots of times they sort of zone in on a particular player or aspect of the game to the exclusion of all else that's going on.

For example, they'll see a phenomenal, acrobatic catch on a wild ass fling and say, "What a great throw!" Stuff like that.

FAX

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 12:13 PM
Bowe probably was doubled quite a bit, but beat the coverage anyway.

This shits on Cassel. I remember one interception where the line gave him AMPLE time. The line really, in retrosepct, did a pretty good job.

Fuck Cassel.

I just went back and watched that play, and put a stopwatch to it.

It was the 2nd snap after the Ravens took a 16-7 lead.

Charles takes out a blitzing Jameel McClain, and Cassel holds the ball for exactly 7 seconds before throwing the INT.

7 seconds is an eternity in the NFL.

FAX
01-11-2011, 12:15 PM
The flea flicker was a busted play where Cassel had to scramble immediately.

Thomas Edison didn't like Tesla.

FAX

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 12:16 PM
I just went back and watched that play, and put a stopwatch to it.

It was the 2nd snap after the Ravens took a 16-7 lead.

Charles takes out a blitzing Jameel McClain, and Cassel holds the ball for exactly 7 seconds before throwing the INT.

7 seconds is an eternity in the NFL.

Cassel forced it and threw a bad pass, no doubt. How many open receivers did you see?

DeezNutz
01-11-2011, 12:19 PM
Cassel forced it and threw a bad pass, no doubt. How many open receivers did you see?

Go back and watch the very first offensive play of the game. There is initial pressure, and Cassel eludes it. Then, for no apparent reason, he takes off and gains two yards.

He had plenty of time and room to set and try to deliver the ball downfield. But he never recovers from the pressure (or the thought of it, apparently).

This is a microcosm of Cassel as a QB, IMO.

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 12:22 PM
Go back and watch the very first offensive play of the game. There is initial pressure, and Cassel eludes it. Then, for no apparent reason, he takes off and gains two yards.

He had plenty of time and room to set and try to deliver the ball downfield. But he never recovers from the pressure (or the thought of it, apparently).

This is a microcosm of Cassel as a QB, IMO.

Oh, and everyone's favorite whipping boy, Bowe, was wide open in the middle of the field on that play.

Same thing happened on the flea flicker.

He eluded the pressure, had time to hit Curtis, but panicked.

FAX
01-11-2011, 12:33 PM
If you want to give Cassel the benefit of the doubt, you could posit that the whole, "don't be careless with the football" thing has gotten in his head.

Potentially, this could explain his reluctance to throw the ball and focus, instead, on the pressure. Of course, that doesn't tell us why he pitched the ball to Tucker in very tight coverage ... that was near the boundary, though, so maybe safer.

FAX

Lzen
01-11-2011, 02:52 PM
Even if he was open 3-4 times and Cassel missed him, the announcers probably would have said something.

The gameplan was to bracket Bowe and let the front 7 stop the run. It worked. Bowe isn't good enough to beat an average corner and Reed. Charles wasn't healthy enough and/or the staff dumb as rocks to give him the ball. That's the offense.

Bowe was open a few times and Cassel missed him. I WAS AT THE FUCKING GAME AND SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES!

Lzen
01-11-2011, 02:58 PM
Cassel was 4 of 5 in the first half. That included drives where they were moving the ball but had a fumble and false start to set up a 3rd and long. The playcalling was questionable.

The 2nd half starts with the team moving the ball again and then the infamous 4th and 1 call.

The next drive McCluster fumbles and it's 16-7.

Cassel didn't play poorly up to that point. Yes, he got lucky on the INT and fumble, but he wasn't the reason KC wasn't putting points up on the board.

From that point on he pressed and failed along with the rest of the team.

BTW, on that McCluster fumble, another receiver was open on an out pattern (IIRC) down the field. Cassel had time to throw to an open receiver down field.

JASONSAUTO
01-11-2011, 02:58 PM
Don't believe it. I swear to God, he beat his man on a post 35 yards down field, and Matt threw a pic about 20 yards in front of him. Right in fucking front of him. I didn't understand how he didn't see Bowe back there with 3 steps on his man.
pressure watch that play again on TV. then get back to me floppy.

Simply Red
01-11-2011, 03:00 PM
Stooges:Scanlon:

:Scanlon:

kaplin42
01-11-2011, 04:34 PM
Yeah, at half I still felt like we would win it as well. That fourth and a foot killed us.

I actually think it was Cassel's Intentional grounding that set the team back to 1st and 20 or 2nd 23 and then his sack immediately afterwards. That to me was the collapse right there of the entire second half.

And when he threw that intentional grounding, there was no reason to. The pass rush had been flattened. Cassel just shit himself per his standard M.O. and decided to get rid of it.

This play also sealed it for me, he is not and never will be a quality NFL QB. I wanted to believe like so many over the last 6 games of the season that he had finally grown, but nope, you can't break instinct, and his instinct is to crap himself and then cry like a little girl.

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 04:46 PM
pressure watch that play again on TV. then get back to me floppy.

Which INT are we talking about?

His 1st, 2nd or 3rd?

JASONSAUTO
01-11-2011, 04:55 PM
Which INT are we talking about?

His 1st, 2nd or 3rd?

Flop said it was the second. I'm not sure that was right though. it was the play where bowe was open about 30 yards df.
Posted via Mobile Device

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 04:56 PM
Which INT are we talking about?

His 1st, 2nd or 3rd?

Doesn't matter, I just rewatched the 1st two.

First INT: Cassel stares down Moeaki the entire time. Throws before he gets hit on a delayed blitz.

Second INT: Literally had 7 seconds to throw. I broke out a stopwatch and timed it.

I'm not sure where the idea of not being able to get Bowe the ball on the play in question because of "pressure" is coming from.

JASONSAUTO
01-11-2011, 05:05 PM
I'm looking now for the play I was talking about. Not sure if it was an int. We could have been talking about two different plays.I'm looking.

On the intentional grounding. First time seeing it on film. Did you think he was under pressure?
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
01-11-2011, 05:09 PM
.number two is the play. You don't think suggs is coming free at that point when cassel lets it go? Everyone talks about a clock the qb had to have and then get rid of it.

Also bowe was directly behind the group around moeaki
Posted via Mobile Device

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 05:17 PM
Go back and watch the very first offensive play of the game. There is initial pressure, and Cassel eludes it. Then, for no apparent reason, he takes off and gains two yards.

He had plenty of time and room to set and try to deliver the ball downfield. But he never recovers from the pressure (or the thought of it, apparently).

This is a microcosm of Cassel as a QB, IMO.

This is ridiculous. The OL is a turnstyle and it's Cassel's fault.

Marcellus
01-11-2011, 05:19 PM
Interesting how people who have been pretty scarce the last 2 or 3 weeks prior to the PO game now have time to dissect every play of the loss and every single word of the presser or comment in every thread about the loss on the front page.

Call me what you want but this was as predictable as sunshine in SanDiego.

BigMeatballDave
01-11-2011, 05:24 PM
30-7 in the first round of the playoffs isn't a blowout.

It's a complete and utter embarrassment.Shit like that happens when you give the ball away 5 times.

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 05:28 PM
This is ridiculous. The OL is a turnstyle and it's Cassel's fault.

Sure looks to me like Deez is spot on.

Cassel steps up to avoid the initial pressure, then decides to run - directly into a Raven that wasn't rushing - instead of staying behind his blockers.

You're telling me he couldn't have set his feet and thrown after eluding Suggs?

Pause this at the :09 second mark and tell me what you see.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WkBbY6OQkdA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WkBbY6OQkdA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 05:32 PM
Sure looks to me like Deez is spot on.

Cassel steps up to avoid the initial pressure, then decides to run - directly into a Raven that wasn't rushing - instead of staying behind his blockers.

You're telling me he couldn't have set his feet and thrown after eluding Suggs?

Pause this at the :09 second mark and tell me what you see.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WkBbY6OQkdA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WkBbY6OQkdA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

He's looking downfield the entire time and pauses before the LOS looking to throw the ball. I presume he didn't see anyone which is why he crossed the line and went down. Cassel didn't see anyone open.

FAX
01-11-2011, 05:33 PM
Sure looks to me like Deez is spot on.

Cassel steps up to avoid the initial pressure, then decides to run - directly into a Raven that wasn't rushing - instead of staying behind his blockers.

You're telling me he couldn't have set his feet and thrown after eluding Suggs?

Pause this at the :09 second mark and tell me what you see.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WkBbY6OQkdA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WkBbY6OQkdA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

That's our boy in a nutshell, right there.

FAX

FAX
01-11-2011, 05:34 PM
He's looking downfield the entire time and pauses before the LOS looking to throw the ball. I presume he didn't see anyone which is why he crossed the line and went down. Cassel didn't see anyone open.

LOL

FAX

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 05:38 PM
He's looking downfield the entire time and pauses before the LOS looking to throw the ball. I presume he didn't see anyone which is why he crossed the line and went down. Cassel didn't see anyone open.

Wow. You'll say anything to defend the guy, apparently.

First, there's no pause. He easily could have set his feet and thrown. He took off running immediately.

Second, I was at the game, and Bowe was WIDE open running across the field on the play.

I presume he didn't see anyone because he was too busy running directly into an unblocked Raven instead of setting up behind his linemen.

Reaper16
01-11-2011, 05:40 PM
Wow. You'll say anything to defend the guy, apparently.

First, there's no pause. He easily could have set his feet and thrown. He took off running immediately.

Second, I was at the game, and Bowe was WIDE open running across the field on the play.

I presume he didn't see anyone because he was too busy running directly into an unblocked Raven instead of setting up behind his linemen.
Bowe AND Curtis were both wide open on that play. Not NFL-open, either. Wide open.

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 05:41 PM
OH NOES! ALL THIS PRESSURE! BETTER RUN!

http://i54.tinypic.com/2l97h94.jpg

BigMeatballDave
01-11-2011, 05:53 PM
OH NOES! ALL THIS PRESSURE! BETTER RUN!

http://i54.tinypic.com/2l97h94.jpgCraptastic. The way MC played Sunday is why I wanted to see him play in SD.

BossChief
01-11-2011, 06:08 PM
Don't believe it. I swear to God, he beat his man on a post 35 yards down field, and Matt threw a pic about 20 yards in front of him. Right in ****ing front of him. I didn't understand how he didn't see Bowe back there with 3 steps on his man.And he was waving his arms the whole time trying to grab the attention of the quarterback that was looking in his general direction but evidently couldn't see him. He was starring his man down and never took his eyes off him.

He's looking downfield the entire time and pauses before the LOS looking to throw the ball. I presume he didn't see anyone which is why he crossed the line and went down. Cassel didn't see anyone open.

You are in pure denial.

"I don't gave a drug problem, I only spend $100 dollars a day on drugs.

DeezNutz
01-11-2011, 06:23 PM
He's looking downfield the entire time and pauses before the LOS looking to throw the ball. I presume he didn't see anyone which is why he crossed the line and went down. Cassel didn't see anyone open.

LMAO.

There was the hint of pressure, and Cassel shit all over himself. After stepping up, he has a ****ing wall of blockers and a beautiful pocket when he decides to run--for no reason.

Let's say everyone was covered, for the sake of argument. With the level of protection he's enjoying in this clip, he should WAIT. Someone should come free.

Opening play = vintage Cassel (read: a shitty ****ing QB who lacks presence and poise on the field)

Mr. Flopnuts
01-11-2011, 06:25 PM
And he was waving his arms the whole time trying to grab the attention of the quarterback that was looking in his general direction but evidently couldn't see him. He was starring his man down and never took his eyes off him.


I haven't broken out the DVR recording yet, but I'm glad someone else saw it. He was behind the safeties, wasn't he?

DeezNutz
01-11-2011, 06:28 PM
And for the record, Jones and Waters do a great job picking up Suggs. The blocking couldn't have fucking been much better, and this is play one, series one of the playoff game.

Cassel was already playing scared.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-11-2011, 06:31 PM
And for the record, Jones and Waters do a great job picking up Suggs. The blocking couldn't have fucking been much better, and this is play one, series one of the playoff game.

Cassel was already playing scared.

:facepalm: Not good. We absolutely need an all world line to go anywhere with Matt Cassel.

DeezNutz
01-11-2011, 06:33 PM
:facepalm: Not good. We absolutely need an all world line to go anywhere with Matt Cassel.

All world? Flop, the blocking was fantastic there. Cassel created a problem. This is what we've talked about when saying that he's not a player that makes others around him better.

In this specific clip, he does the exact opposite.

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 06:36 PM
All world? Flop, the blocking was fantastic there. Cassel created a problem. This is what we've talked about when saying that he's not a player that makes others around him better.

In this specific clip, he does the exact opposite.

I guess we shouldn't complain.

He could have stayed behind his blocking, stared down his WR for 7 seconds, then threw an INT.

Oh, wait.

He did that later?

FlaccoStoleMyGirl
01-11-2011, 06:44 PM
The TD pass to Ray Rice, I believe it was their second score, was ALL on McGraw. The secondary had everyone covered, DJ stayed home and McGraw should have too. Flacco only had to LOOK to his left, and McGraw was GONE in that direction, he didn't trust his teammates. As soon as he took off, Ray Rice took the vacated spot on the field for a WIDE open TD.

Flacco's second TD was all Ravens. We played the defense very well and it could have easily gone our way, but Flacco made the easy pass and Boldin made a good catch.

The third TD is why I hate John Harbaugh, he did the same thing to us last year. Went for it when the game was already won. 4th and 1, minutes left in the game, up by 16. The classy thing to do is take the TD and not lay it on too thick. Had to go for it though, and our defense was not only out of steam by that point, but out of "want to". They were ready for the day to be done at that point.

The defense played VERY well, except they gave up too much underneath. (Why were the safeties playing so damned deep?) The defense stopped the run pretty damned well 3/4 of the game or more. Forced them to a lot of 3rd and longs, and of course the underneath routes to Rice and Heap bailed them out more often than not. Forced them to kick 3 FG's, and only really got beat once, the other two TD's, as I saw it, were mental mistakes, and quitting late.

A few things did not go our way. A bogus flag on Hali, a real iffy penalty on Berry, Demorrio Williams offsides on a punt, a BLATANTLY obvious hold on Dorsey with Flacco running for damned near a first down on 2nd and long, and Matt Cassel trying to do something and forcing everything. He didn't really have a lot of open receivers though. The times he took sacks, he did a couple times, but he was under some real heat, and on one at least, if he had attempted to throw, it'd been a strip for sure and possibly 6 the other way.

Also can't believe how big of a douche Oher is. Along with a lot of the other players on that team. TJack did get a little unnecessary though. I don't blame him though.

Proud of this young defense. The secondary is sound. The d line is pretty good, would be really nice to get a badass NT but I doubt we find that stud in this draft. OLB opposite Hali would help immensely. Berry played well, but needs to work on defending the better TE's in this league. He gave up A LOT of yards.

The offense is pretty much shit outside of Bowe and Charles. Matt does break down with a pass rush, it sucks. The O line is a liability, especially on the edges, and Weigman may not be back next year so there's always that hole looming. We need a LOT of help at receiver next year. Hope WR is one of the top two picks(along with OLB). McCluster is my biggest disappointment from this years draft...

So the Raven's should have stop playing....maybe the Chiefs should have kept playing...

TheGuardian
01-11-2011, 06:47 PM
So the Raven's should have stop playing....maybe the Chiefs should have kept playing...

Maybe Ed Reed's brother should have taken swimming lessons?

FlaccoStoleMyGirl
01-11-2011, 06:56 PM
Does anyone doubt for a second that if Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Ryan, Rivers, etc had been playing QB for the Chiefs on Sunday, that we win that game?

Hell, we were only down 3 points midway through the 3rd quarter with Cassel playing like ass.

If the Ravens had troy polamalu to play along side Reed you wouldn't, in other words if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle...

FlaccoStoleMyGirl
01-11-2011, 06:56 PM
Maybe Ed Reed's brother should have taken swimming lessons?

Chiefs would have still lost...Are y'all children on this board or is it something that you eat in KC that causes your maturity level to perpetually stay at it's pre-pubescent levels?

Next comes the mother jokes...

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 07:01 PM
If the Ravens had troy polamalu to play along side Reed you wouldn't, in other words if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle...

You might want to actually read the thread and understand the context about that comment before you spout off.

DeezNutz
01-11-2011, 07:03 PM
I want more Cassel defenders to justify the clip of play 1/series 1.

Better yet, start an apology thread.

The Bad Guy
01-11-2011, 07:04 PM
Raven fans crack me up. Most of them didn't give a shit about football 10 years ago. However, when you go into their stadium, they try so hard to be like Philadelphia.

FlaccoStoleMyGirl
01-11-2011, 07:07 PM
You might want to actually read the thread and understand the context about that comment before you spout off.

Synopsis of thread...
bashing Cassell
receivers were open
we weren't really blown out

The comment can be said about just every team...IF so and so team had this, so and so would happen.

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 07:09 PM
Synopsis of thread...
bashing Cassell
receivers were open
we weren't really blown out

The comment can be said about just every team...IF so and so team had this, so and so would happen.

Reading comprehension fail.

Move along now, adults are talking.

Maybe Mom will let you troll the Steelers board before you go to bed - it's a school day tomorrow, you know.

FlaccoStoleMyGirl
01-11-2011, 07:10 PM
Raven fans crack me up. Most of them didn't give a shit about football 10 years ago. However, when you go into their stadium, they try so hard to be like Philadelphia.

Rigghhhttt...Baltimore fans model themselves after Philly fans...really?

Ravens fans gave a shit about football 10 years ago...the Ravens were winning the Superbowl...

What is so funny, really, it seems to be so many tough guys on here, but you get your panties all in a bunch when somebody says something negative about your team...

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2011, 07:12 PM
Rigghhhttt...Baltimore fans model themselves after Philly fans...really?

Ravens fans gave a shit about football 10 years ago...the Ravens were winning the Superbowl...

What is so funny, really, it seems to be so many tough guys on here, but you get your panties all in a bunch when somebody says something negative about your team...

http://i41.tinypic.com/2gwgp4j.jpg

You really don't get it, apparently.

WE'RE saying negative things about our team.

We don't need any help from you, troll.

FlaccoStoleMyGirl
01-11-2011, 07:12 PM
Reading comprehension fail.

Move along now, adults are talking.

Maybe Mom will let you troll the Steelers board before you go to bed - it's a school day tomorrow, you know.

I KNEW the Mom comment was coming in some form on another. I respect Steelers fans, and they're team...as much as I hate them...I respect them, the Chiefs, no so much...

Anymore cliches?

Fail
Mom
name call
Troll comment
I think I'm missing something...

FlaccoStoleMyGirl
01-11-2011, 07:13 PM
[IMG]
You really don't get it, apparently.

WE'RE saying negative things about our team.

We don't need any help from you, troll.

Lol, you are really getting worked up...I'm done...I'm going to go before I get more mom jokes, and another adult says "fail".

God loves you even when you don't love yourself, toodles.

Bugeater
01-11-2011, 07:14 PM
Rigghhhttt...Baltimore fans model themselves after Philly fans...really?

Ravens fans gave a shit about football 10 years ago...the Ravens were winning the Superbowl...

What is so funny, really, it seems to be so many tough guys on here, but you get your panties all in a bunch when somebody says something negative about your team...
Yeeeaahhh...we're a bunch of fucking sunshine pumpers around here.

Bugeater
01-11-2011, 07:18 PM
I KNEW the Mom comment was coming in some form on another. I respect Steelers fans, and they're team...as much as I hate them...I respect them, the Chiefs, no so much...

Anymore cliches?

Fail
Mom
name call
Troll comment
I think I'm missing something...
You're actually missing quite a few things, including (but not limited to):

Die in a tire fire
Kill yourself
Walk into an AIDS tree
Antifreeze
Gaz
Okay gang
If you saw me and didn't know who I was, you'd never know it was me

The Bad Guy
01-11-2011, 07:22 PM
Rigghhhttt...Baltimore fans model themselves after Philly fans...really?

Ravens fans gave a shit about football 10 years ago...the Ravens were winning the Superbowl...

What is so funny, really, it seems to be so many tough guys on here, but you get your panties all in a bunch when somebody says something negative about your team...

My fault. 12 years ago.

Walk into Ravens stadium with an opposing jersey and all those crab hunters get so pissed off that their blood pressure goes instantly.

Stryker
01-11-2011, 07:24 PM
I love this team and I am very satisfied with the way this season turned out. I welcome anything beyond 4-12!

In order to be the best, you have to beat the best. The Chiefs were no where near this. The Chiefs might as well have backed into this like the 49er/Denver deal several years ago. The AFC North is tough and the Ravens (who have to win on the road throughout) are going to keep clicking - the Chiefs were no match. Experience vs. youth.

Until the coaching staff can settle into place (more permanent), and the draft can keep producing as well as capitalizing though free agency, this team will be held back. I want to see what year 3 has in store for this team. Youth should come of age and experience should be gained.

I just saw an improvement this season and I just hope it is the shape of things to come. Hell, I just sat through a 20 yr version of the 5 yr plan - I will be glad to wait JUST 1 more!

:toast::toast::toast::toast::toast:

Easy 6
01-11-2011, 07:27 PM
Don't believe it. I swear to God, he beat his man on a post 35 yards down field, and Matt threw a pic about 20 yards in front of him. Right in ****ing front of him. I didn't understand how he didn't see Bowe back there with 3 steps on his man.

I think the reason he hesitates & checks down so much in situations like that, is that even he doesnt trust his arm to consistently make those long stick throws.

He's smart enough to play it safe & not blatantly turn it over, and i do see the merit in that... but sometimes his arm costs us too many big plays.

I love his work ethic & passion, but man...

FlaccoStoleMyGirl
01-11-2011, 07:30 PM
My fault. 12 years ago.

Walk into Ravens stadium with an opposing jersey and all those crab hunters get so pissed off that their blood pressure goes instantly.


Me being obnoxious aside, I've never known Ravens fans to be like that...for the most part we are pretty good about stuff like that...

FlaccoStoleMyGirl
01-11-2011, 07:32 PM
You're actually missing quite a few things, including (but not limited to):

Die in a tire fire
Kill yourself
Walk into an AIDS tree
Antifreeze
Gaz
Okay gang
If you saw me and didn't know who I was, you'd never know it was me

That was actually creative :thumb:

Tribal Warfare
01-11-2011, 07:37 PM
That was actually creative :thumb:

n00b

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 07:48 PM
Bowe AND Curtis were both wide open on that play. Not NFL-open, either. Wide open.

I wasn't at the game, but if you are telling me that all of the receivers who went out for passes on that play were wide open against 7 Ravens in coverage, then I guess Matt missed both of them.

DaneMcCloud
01-11-2011, 07:52 PM
That was actually creative :thumb:

Thanks

Bugeater
01-11-2011, 08:02 PM
That was actually creative :thumb:
Yeah...I just came up with that. :spock:

BossChief
01-11-2011, 10:34 PM
I haven't broken out the DVR recording yet, but I'm glad someone else saw it. He was behind the safeties, wasn't he?

He had almost two steps on his man with NOTHING but the endzone in front of him and was waving for the ball for 15 yards.

I'm not gonna sit here and say there were wide open receivers all game, there weren't, but there were PLENTY of opertunities to keep it close and early on there were chances to pull ahead that we couldn't take advantage of because of Matt Cassel.

OnTheWarpath58
01-12-2011, 11:58 AM
I want more Cassel defenders to justify the clip of play 1/series 1.

Better yet, start an apology thread.

*crickets*

Chiefnj2
01-12-2011, 12:47 PM
*crickets*

How many receivers were on that play?

Did Cassel look down field after he was pressured?

Did he pump fake?

Did he keep the ball in throwing position or tuck it immediately?

You say he completely choked. I say, he avoided pressure, looked downfield and didn't think he could deliver the ball to anyone. From that angle it's impossible to tell if anyone was open or not; but remember there were only 2 guys running routes on that play.

BossChief
01-12-2011, 01:27 PM
How many receivers were on that play?

Did Cassel look down field after he was pressured?

Did he pump fake?

Did he keep the ball in throwing position or tuck it immediately?

You say he completely choked. I say, he avoided pressure, looked downfield and didn't think he could deliver the ball to anyone. From that angle it's impossible to tell if anyone was open or not; but remember there were only 2 guys running routes on that play.
You are in Cassenial.

OnTheWarpath58
01-12-2011, 01:34 PM
You are in Cassenial.

LMAO

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 01:34 PM
How many receivers were on that play?

Did Cassel look down field after he was pressured?

Did he pump fake?

Did he keep the ball in throwing position or tuck it immediately?

You say he completely choked. I say, he avoided pressure, looked downfield and didn't think he could deliver the ball to anyone. From that angle it's impossible to tell if anyone was open or not; but remember there were only 2 guys running routes on that play.

He has a beautiful pocket. Why does he immediately make the decision to run? There's no need. At the 9 second mark, the closest defensive player is 5 yards away, and Waters and Jones picked up Suggs without a problem.

Why doesn't Cassel set his feet and stand strong in the pocket? Answer: he panics.

Jack
01-12-2011, 01:54 PM
Interesting how people who have been pretty scarce the last 2 or 3 weeks prior to the PO game now have time to dissect every play of the loss and every single word of the presser or comment in every thread about the loss on the front page.

Call me what you want but this was as predictable as sunshine in SanDiego.

I wondered if anyone else noticed this.

A completely different tribe shows up. A little known tribe, the Igotabitch, who's language is called Itolyaso. It sounds like fecal noises, stomach growls and beer belches.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 01:59 PM
He has a beautiful pocket. Why does he immediately make the decision to run? There's no need. At the 9 second mark, the closest defensive player is 5 yards away, and Waters and Jones picked up Suggs without a problem.

Why doesn't Cassel set his feet and stand strong in the pocket? Answer: he panics.

The odd thing is that during the month of November (and earlier in December), he began to show huge signs of progress. Where he'd formerly overthrow a receiver or take a sack, he avoided the pass rush and made important completions.

I was concerned that he might regress due to the appendectomy surgery and subsequent layoff but after the first quarter against the Rams (which I attributed to "rust") he was back on top of his game.

It may be nothing more than a coincidence or it may be a sign of trouble in the 2011 season. But whatever the case may be, he fully regressed to December 2009 Cassel after it was rumored that Weis was leaving for Florida.

Haley and the new offensive coordinator's number one priority in the 2011 offseason should be to address how and why Cassel suddenly regressed in his final two games and to seek an immediate solution.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-12-2011, 02:02 PM
Rigghhhttt...Baltimore fans model themselves after Philly fans...really?

Ravens fans gave a shit about football 10 years ago...the Ravens were winning the Superbowl...

What is so funny, really, it seems to be so many tough guys on here, but you get your panties all in a bunch when somebody says something negative about your team...

Put on some handcuffs, and jump in a lake.

Chiefnj2
01-12-2011, 02:04 PM
He has a beautiful pocket. Why does he immediately make the decision to run? There's no need. At the 9 second mark, the closest defensive player is 5 yards away, and Waters and Jones picked up Suggs without a problem.

Why doesn't Cassel set his feet and stand strong in the pocket? Answer: he panics.

How does Cassel know Suggs was picked up without a problem?

The better question is why is Weis calling a pass play that leaves Suggs (the best pass rusher on the Ravens) completely untouched on the LOS and only 2 receivers going out?

Mr. Flopnuts
01-12-2011, 02:04 PM
He has a beautiful pocket. Why does he immediately make the decision to run? There's no need. At the 9 second mark, the closest defensive player is 5 yards away, and Waters and Jones picked up Suggs without a problem.

Why doesn't Cassel set his feet and stand strong in the pocket? Answer: he panics.

Which is why I say we need an All world line. Don't get me wrong, the line did just fine. But if Matt is going to panic, we need to upgrade. Again, don't get me wrong, what we need to upgrade is the QB, but since that's absolutely not going to happen, we need to get him guys that can give him a minute in the half in the pocket.

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 02:05 PM
The odd thing is that during the month of November (and earlier in December), he began to show huge signs of progress. Where he'd formerly overthrow a receiver or take a sack, he avoided the pass rush and made important completions.

I was concerned that he might regress due to the appendectomy surgery and subsequent layoff but after the first quarter against the Rams (which I attributed to "rust") he was back on top of his game.

It may be nothing more than a coincidence or it may be a sign of trouble in the 2011 season. But whatever the case may be, he fully regressed to December 2009 Cassel after it was rumored that Weis was leaving for Florida.

Haley and the new offensive coordinator's number one priority in the 2011 offseason should be to address how and why Cassel suddenly regressed in his final two games and to seek an immediate solution.

I agree.

Discussion on talk radio in KC yesterday (I know, I know) was that Cassel never looked the same after Haley pulled him during the TN game (I believe, memory getting fuzzy).

Whatever the cause, it's clear that from this point forward, Cassel was crap. Was this because of better opponents? Scary. Weis leaving? Correctable. Haley? Scary.

Frosty
01-12-2011, 02:06 PM
It may be nothing more than a coincidence or it may be a sign of trouble in the 2011 season. But whatever the case may be, he fully regressed to December 2009 Cassel after it was rumored that Weis was leaving for Florida.

Okay - I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat on here.

:tinfoil:

BigRedChief posted a rumor that he said was from a low reliability source. The source said that Haley, Weis and Casssel got into it after the Titans game over Haley pulling Cassel to bitch at him for freelancing. Weis and Cassel thought Haley should have waited until after the game to address it.

Cassel has played like shit since that game so, if (a BIG if) this is true, I wonder if the incident undermined Cassel's confidence?

/tinfoil

I like Haley and I like how he has gotten players to respond so it's probably BS and I also hope that Cassel is mentally stronger than that. It might explain some stuff though.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 02:07 PM
How does Cassel know Suggs was picked up without a problem?

He should play like he's picked up unless he just happens to be in his face.

Cassel played scared against Baltimore.

What I can't understand is why a 6'5, 235 pound guy would feel the need to play scared. 6'0, 205 pounds I can understand but not 6'5, 235.

That's what separates guys like Favre, Rothlisberger & Flacco from guys like Drew Brees. Their size gives them the ability to not worry about injury.

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 02:07 PM
How does Cassel know Suggs was picked up without a problem?

He doesn't get sacked when he hits his back foot, and he should be able to see Jones and Waters sliding over.

And this has everything to do with presence and "feel" in the pocket. How do more seasoned (and better) QBs sense pressure (real pressure) from the backside and get rid of the ball (in the pocket)?

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 02:09 PM
I agree.

Discussion on talk radio in KC yesterday (I know, I know) was that Cassel never looked the same after Haley pulled him during the TN game (I believe, memory getting fuzzy).

Whatever the cause, it's clear that from this point forward, Cassel was crap. Was this because of better opponents? Scary. Weis leaving? Correctable. Haley? Scary.

Okay, I may be way off base here, but I was under the impression that the only reason Haley put in Croyle was because the game was so far out of hand that he didn't want to risk injury to his starting QB.

That being the case (and this is a rhetorical question, mind you), why would that affect Cassel's psyche in any way, shape or form?

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 02:10 PM
Okay - I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat on here.

:tinfoil:

BigRedChief posted a rumor that he said was from a low reliability source. The source said that Haley, Weis and Casssel got into it after the Titans game over Haley pulling Cassel to bitch at him for freelancing. Weis and Cassel thought Haley should have waited until after the game to address it.

Cassel has played like shit since that game so, if (a BIG if) this is true, I wonder if the incident undermined Cassel's confidence?

/tinfoil

I like Haley and I like how he has gotten players to respond so it's probably BS and I also hope that Cassel is mentally stronger than that. It might explain some stuff though.

Haley created public drama when things could have been handled behind the scenes. This is a fact. No tinfoil needed to make that statement.

It seems clear that Haley was trying to put his foot down. He didn't like what Weis and Cassel were doing, and he can have direct control over only the latter. He can't go charging up to the press box mid-game, in other words.

Frosty
01-12-2011, 02:11 PM
Haley created public drama when things could have been handled behind the scenes. This is a fact. No tinfoil needed to make that statement.

The tinfoil was more about the power struggle undermining Cassel's confidence. As much as I like Haley, that was the wrong thing to do.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 02:12 PM
BigRedChief posted a rumor that he said was from a low reliability source. The source said that Haley, Weis and Casssel got into it after the Titans game over Haley pulling Cassel to bitch at him for freelancing. Weis and Cassel thought Haley should have waited until after the game to address it.

Wow. That's not how I saw his "benching" at all. As I mentioned earlier, I assumed that it was because the game was out of reach for the Titans due to the score and the time remaining in the game.

I figured that if Croyle hadn't immediately shit himself (thus proving he needs to find another line of work), he'd have finished the game. I thought it was about protecting Cassel in a game that was already won.

Since I know nothing of this rumor, I'm not going to pass judgment but I hope that it's untrue.

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 02:12 PM
Okay, I may be way off base here, but I was under the impression that the only reason Haley put in Croyle was because the game was so far out of hand that he didn't want to risk injury to his starting QB.

That being the case (and this is a rhetorical question, mind you), why would that affect Cassel's psyche in any way, shape or form?

Nope. That has definitively been addressed, and Croyle was not in for that reason. Haley said it was because a "strategic issue" needed to be corrected, and thus he needed to talk to Cassel.

The problem with this explanation is that when Cassel comes off the field, Haley never talks to him. In fact, he turns his back on him, and Mo has to get between Haley and Cassel, because Cassel was pissed.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 02:14 PM
Nope. That has definitively been addressed, and Croyle was not in for that reason. Haley said it was because a "strategic issue" needed to be corrected, and thus he needed to talk to Cassel.

The problem with this explanation is that when Cassel comes off the field, Haley never talks to him. In fact, he turns his back on him, and Mo has to get between Haley and Cassel, because Cassel was pissed.

Wow. That's all I'm able to say at this point in time.

Wow.

Well, the events leading up to the Oakland game make much more sense now.

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 02:14 PM
The tinfoil was more about the power struggle undermining Cassel's confidence. As much as I like Haley, that was the wrong thing to do.

This is a tough one. Cassel showed a lot of courage and mental toughness after surgery, and therefore it would seem odd that he would need to be placated by the HC.

Frosty
01-12-2011, 02:14 PM
Wow. That's not how I saw his "benching" at all. As I mentioned earlier, I assumed that it was because the game was out of reach for the Titans due to the score and the time remaining in the game.

I figured that if Croyle hadn't immediately shit himself (thus proving he needs to find another line of work), he'd have finished the game. I thought it was about protecting Cassel in a game that was already won.

Since I know nothing of this rumor, I'm not going to pass judgment but I hope that it's untrue.

The game wasn't out of reach at that point, especially considering the Giants' collapse just the week before. Cassel audibled to a Jones run right before he was yanked, so there was some speculation that the yanking had to do with that somehow. BRC's rumor kind of went along that line.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 02:16 PM
The game wasn't out of reach at that point, especially considering the Giants' collapse just the week before. Cassel audibled to a Jones run right before he was yanked, so there was some speculation that the yanking had to do with that somehow. BRC's rumor kind of went along that line.

Well, thanks for the insight. I wasn't around the last few weeks of the year or the first week of this year, so apparently, I missed quite a bit of information.

Sheesh.

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 02:16 PM
I would like to point out that the Cassel benching definitely feeds into the claims by some (Whitlock) that Haley coaches from an insecure place.

Haley might end up being a great coach, but he handled this specific situation very, very poorly. Look at me! Look at me! You'll do what I say!

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 02:19 PM
I would like to point out that the Cassel benching definitely feeds into the claims by some (Whitlock) that Haley coaches from an insecure place.

Haley might end up being a great coach, but he handled this specific situation very, very poorly. Look at me! Look at me! You'll do what I say!

It also makes sense as to why Weis was gone just four days (or less) after that game. Sounds like the final straw, to me.

Wow fucking wow.

Frosty
01-12-2011, 02:21 PM
I would like to point out that the Cassel benching definitely feeds into the claims by some (Whitlock) that Haley coaches from an insecure place.

Haley might end up being a great coach, but he handled this specific situation very, very poorly. Look at me! Look at me! You'll do what I say!

That part I'm not sure I buy. He might have thought the game was going well enough that an object lesson would work and not hurt the team. Maybe not smart, but I don't know about insecure. I think he is just a hard-ass and it gets away from him sometimes.

Frosty
01-12-2011, 02:22 PM
It also makes sense as to why Weis was gone just four days (or less) after that game. Sounds like the final straw, to me.

Wow ****ing wow.

You think it happened that fast? I'm betting the Weis thing has been in the works for a while. Th Bad Guy posted something about Weis meeting with Muschamp around Thanksgiving, IIRC.

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 02:24 PM
I think he is just a hard-ass and it gets away from him sometimes.

I think we'll be arguing semantics at this point, since I think puffing his chest at this moment and acting like a hard-ass is indicative of insecurity.

Why create drama? It just doesn't make much sense to me.

Frosty
01-12-2011, 02:26 PM
I just don't think the players would respond to him like they do (even back to Fitz) if his demeanor was because of insecurity. I think they would see through that pretty quickly and tune him out.

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 02:28 PM
I just don't think the players would respond to him like they do (even back to Fitz) if his demeanor was because of insecurity. I think they would see through that pretty quickly and tune him out.

Great point. But here we're talking about his relationship with an assistant coach who, frankly, has a better NFL resume than Haley.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 02:30 PM
You think it happened that fast? I'm betting the Weis thing has been in the works for a while.

Yeah, I do. Based on what I know about college coordinators being hired, it happens very quickly.


Th Bad Guy posted something about Weis meeting with Muschamp around Thanksgiving, IIRC.

No offense to The Bad Guy, but what reason would Muschamp have to meet with Weis around Thanksgiving, especially considering that he wasn't hired by Florida until December 12th? Before that time, he was the head-coach-in-waiting at Texas and if Mack Brown were interested in Weis, he would have been the contact person, not Muschamp.

Frosty
01-12-2011, 02:35 PM
No offense to The Bad Guy, but what reason would Muschamp have to meet with Weis around Thanksgiving, especially considering that he wasn't hired by Florida until December 12th? Before that time, he was the head-coach-in-waiting at Texas and if Mack Brown were interested in Weis, he would have been the contact person, not Muschamp.

It had to do with Weis' son, not necessarily a OC position for Weis.

Personally, I think the problem between Weis and Haley comes from the fact that Weis has never worked under an offensive-minded coach and had trouble with Haley being involved, which an offensive-minded head coach is wont to do.

The Florida job means less work for Weis, better weather, he gets to work with his kid and he gets to be Big Dog on O. it was an opportunity that was hard to pass up.

Not as juicy, I guess, but it fits for me. Who knows, though? :shrug:

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 02:35 PM
I think we'll be arguing semantics at this point, since I think puffing his chest at this moment and acting like a hard-ass is indicative of insecurity.

Why create drama? It just doesn't make much sense to me.

I don't think it's insecurity, as Whitlock has suggested, but poor management skills.

I've been managed before and I've been an executive manager. I had been micro-managed in the past and found it not only to be ineffective, it was also petty and unnecessary. Hiring a strong support staff and allowing them to do their jobs is in my opinion, the most effective and productive method of management.

Some people, however, are unable to allow this to happen and become micro-managers. While insecurity may play a role, my experience is that micro-management occurred due to incompetence and under-qualification of said manager.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 02:37 PM
It had to do with Weis' son, not necessarily a OC position for Weis.

Personally, I think the problem between Weis and Haley comes from the fact that Weis has never worked under an offensive-minded coach and had trouble with Haley being involved, which an offensive-minded head coach is wont to do.

The Florida job means less work for Weis, better weather, he gets to work with his kid and he gets to be Big Dog on O. it was an opportunity that was hard to pass up.

Not as juicy, I guess, but it fits for me. Who knows, though? :shrug:

I know what I've been told and while I'm not going to go into detail, it wasn't due to his son as much as it had to due with Pioli not letting him out of his contract with the Chiefs (i.e., no NFL job) and not having any other option than college work.

Frosty
01-12-2011, 02:38 PM
I know what I've been told and while I'm not going to go into detail, it wasn't due to his son as much as it had to due with Pioli not letting him out of his contract with the Chiefs (i.e., no NFL job) and not having any other option than college work.

Okay. I don't have any sources and just have to go by common sense and what is reported in the media (the two are often at odds).

Deberg_1990
01-12-2011, 02:43 PM
I know what I've been told and while I'm not going to go into detail, it wasn't due to his son as much as it had to due with Pioli not letting him out of his contract with the Chiefs (i.e., no NFL job) and not having any other option than college work.

So was Weis angling for an NFL head coaching job?

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 02:56 PM
So was Weis angling for an NFL head coaching job?

Not that I'm aware of but if he were to get an NFL head coaching job, there's nothing that the Chiefs could have done to stop him because that would have been a promotion.

But they weren't about to let him out of his contract so that he could become the offensive coordinator for another NFL team, with openings in Denver and Oakland, that's for sure.

His only choice was the college game.

The Bad Guy
01-12-2011, 03:25 PM
Yeah, I do. Based on what I know about college coordinators being hired, it happens very quickly.



No offense to The Bad Guy, but what reason would Muschamp have to meet with Weis around Thanksgiving, especially considering that he wasn't hired by Florida until December 12th? Before that time, he was the head-coach-in-waiting at Texas and if Mack Brown were interested in Weis, he would have been the contact person, not Muschamp.

Weis Jr. was going to Texas to work in their football department. It wasn't about Florida. He did meet with Mack Brown and Muschamp and over that time it was decided that he was going to work in the football office under Muschamp.

It had nothing to do with Florida at that time.

You can believe it or not, makes no difference to me.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 03:38 PM
I can believe that Weis jr was planning to work with Muschamp as far back as Thanksgiving.

What I don't believe is that Weis senior had made up his mind to leave the Chiefs and follow Muschamp where ever he was to land back in November.
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
01-12-2011, 04:16 PM
I can believe that Weis jr was planning to work with Muschamp as far back as Thanksgiving.

What I don't believe is that Weis senior had made up his mind to leave the Chiefs and follow Muschamp where ever he was to land back in November.
Posted via Mobile Device

no one said that.

but weis could have expressed his dissatisfaction at that time and that might be why muschamp reached out when hired at florida.

The Bad Guy
01-12-2011, 04:26 PM
I can believe that Weis jr was planning to work with Muschamp as far back as Thanksgiving.

What I don't believe is that Weis senior had made up his mind to leave the Chiefs and follow Muschamp where ever he was to land back in November.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm not saying at all that he made up his mind then. I'm saying the relationship was kicked into gear over that period of time where Weis and Muschamp became friendly and stayed in touch.

I'll stick by what I think that Weis wants total control of the offense. Do I think there was some conflict with Haley? Absolutely. I think the biggest issue is that Weis has really only coached with defensive HCs that deferred to Charlie's opinion.

I think losing Weis is a huge blow. If Fox gets the job in Denver, McCoy is likely staying there.

If we promote Muir or Carthon, I'll throw up.

michaelj_58
01-12-2011, 04:50 PM
I'm going to force myself to watch the game again to see if bowe was open in second half.

suzzer99
01-12-2011, 05:08 PM
I agree Cassel completely crapped the bed. But I'm not giving up on him just yet. If he can show even half the amount of improvement next year that he showed this year, he'll be pretty good. Then maybe with one playoff choke under his belt he won't let it happen so much next time. That's one thing about high-character hard-working types. They don't keep making the same mistakes.

Even when he sucked, Cassel made some fairly clutch throws to Bowe and others last year late in games (that our D turned around and gave it right back). So I don't think he's a complete choker by nature. He just wasn't ready for this, plus all the distractions with Weis, etc. Anyone but the intimidating Steelers or Ravens, or the all-world Pats I bet we win that game. I was really really hoping for the Jets.

Rausch
01-12-2011, 05:11 PM
I agree Cassel completely crapped the bed. But I'm not giving up on him just yet. If he can show even half the amount of improvement next year that he showed this year, he'll be pretty good. Then maybe with one playoff choke under his belt he won't let it happen so much next time. That's one thing about high-character hard-working types. They don't keep making the same mistakes.

Even when he sucked, Cassel made some fairly clutch throws to Bowe and others last year late in games (that our D turned around and gave it right back). So I don't think he's a complete choker by nature. He just wasn't ready for this, plus all the distractions with Weis, etc. Anyone but the intimidating Steelers or Ravens, or the all-world Pats I bet we win that game. I was really really hoping for the Jets.

I don't think he's a choker I just think it's easy for a good defense to completely shut him down/make him ineffective.

FAX
01-12-2011, 05:24 PM
I don't think he's a choker I just think it's easy for a good defense to completely shut him down/make him ineffective.

Really? I respect your opinion on all matters football, Mr. Rausch. Over the years, you have displayed exceptional knowledge of the great game.

Why don't you think he "chokes"? I ask because that would honestly be my blunt assessment of his performance last Sunday. I'm thinking of those scrambles when he actually had time to throw and receivers reasonably open (if not very open).

FAX

stevieray
01-12-2011, 05:29 PM
Really? I respect your opinion on all matters football, Mr. Rausch. Over the years, you have displayed exceptional knowledge of the great game.

Why don't you think he "chokes"? I ask because that would honestly be my blunt assessment of his performance last Sunday. I'm thinking of those scrambles when he actually had time to throw and receivers reasonably open (if not very open).

FAX

with players streaking across the field, it's not out the realm of possibility that his line of sight could've been hampered...good, even great QB's miss open/wide open WR's.

lots going on in those few seconds..

EdReedKnocksYouOut
01-12-2011, 05:38 PM
You guys have some holes to fill.

The Ravens and Raiders (Seriously?!) pushed you around all over the field.

Your Secondary is probably ok, but your REAL draft F/A needs are:

1. QB
2. defensive line
3. linebackers
4. OL
5. another WR


Your welcome.

suzzer99
01-12-2011, 05:39 PM
Really? I respect your opinion on all matters football, Mr. Rausch. Over the years, you have displayed exceptional knowledge of the great game.

Why don't you think he "chokes"? I ask because that would honestly be my blunt assessment of his performance last Sunday. I'm thinking of those scrambles when he actually had time to throw and receivers reasonably open (if not very open).

FAX

There's a difference between choking once and being a "choker". You've never missed an easy shot on the 8-ball with money or beer on the line?

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 05:41 PM
There's a difference between choking once and being a "choker". You've never missed an easy shot on the 8-ball with money or beer on the line?

Once, when I was shooting behind my back and with my opposite hand, which was sore from throwing a football 70-yards and pleasuring untold numbers of women.

Welcome to Chiefs Planet. We need a QB.

suzzer99
01-12-2011, 05:52 PM
Maybe. But either way we're going to have 1-2 more years to find out of Cassel is worth a s***. So I'm not going to beat myself up envisioning negative outcome. There's still a reasonable enough chance he could be a slightly slower Gannon.

He looked absolutely terrible last year and for the beginning of this year. Based on the amount of improvement from that to most of this season, I think it's ridiculous to write him off just yet. Keep in mind most of that improvement happened with basically two legit threats - Bowe and Tony M. I'd like to see what he can do with one or two more.

Also just think about how long it's going to take to get someone else up to speed. Unless we snag Peyton Manning, anyone else is going to have at least a year of development or adjustment. If we draft a QB in 2012, it's probably 2015 before we can reasonably expect him to lead us to a superbowl (IE - not just a system QB on a great team). Or we could pick up say Carson Palmer and hope he still has something left. Give him a year to get comfortable and we're still looking at 2014. Cassel morphing into Gannon sure seems like the quickest path to glory, and it's not like any option is guaranteed success. With two LBs and an NT, and plenty of time to gel as a unit, our D could just be dominant enough for a system guy who doesn't make many mistakes.


I will say this thread has opened my eyes though to just how horrible he played last Sunday. Kinda said that there's absolutely no local or national media outlet with this level of insight. I wished I'd landed at this forum sooner. I now realize that Arrowhead Club is fairly worthless. At least here the trolls get destroyed pretty quickly. I've come to the conclusion that the "no personal insults" policy, while great for most of the forum sites on the web, just doesn't work on a local NFL team forum. Too many people who are barely competent enough to work the internet spewing too much emotion-fueled irrationality.

There is another forum (which I won't name) which is troll free and has some really sharp analysis. But it's kind of boring and goes long stretches w/o much activity.

EdReedKnocksYouOut
01-12-2011, 05:57 PM
Maybe. But either way we're going to have 1-2 more years to find out of Cassel is worth a s***. So I'm not going to beat myself up envisioning negative outcome. There's still a reasonable enough chance he could be a slightly slower Gannon.

Cassel looks like Kyle Boller when he's pressured.

Go ahead and wait 1-2 more years to "learn what you already know," as the Raiders and Broncos race past you in the AFCW...


:facepalm:

FAX
01-12-2011, 05:59 PM
There's a difference between choking once and being a "choker". You've never missed an easy shot on the 8-ball with money or beer on the line?

ROFL

Good point, I suppose. But, even though there was about 6 months there when I would surely have starved were it not for pool, I didn't practice 24/7.

I have to believe that, at the professional level (of anything), performance expectations are somewhat high - compared to basic, amateur-level, barroom activities. It seems to me that nothing occurred in that Baltimore game that couldn't be reasonably anticipated by Cassel.

I suppose, however, there is a difference between being a "choker" and "choking". Although that may be splitting a very fine hair.

FAX

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 05:59 PM
Maybe. But either way we're going to have 1-2 more years to find out of Cassel is worth a s***. So I'm not going to beat myself up envisioning negative outcome. There's still a reasonable enough chance he could be a slightly slower Gannon.

He looked absolutely terrible last year and for the beginning of this year. Based on the amount of improvement from that to most of this season, I think it's ridiculous to write him off just yet. Keep in mind most of that improvement happened with basically two targets - Bowe and Tony M.

And an improved line, and the best rushing attack in football, all while facing one of the weakest schedules.

I agree that we're stuck with Cassel for another year, and a first-place schedule will be a daunting test and a true indication of his growth.

If he plays poorly, there will be a litany of excuses, however. 1. It's his third OC in three years. He deserves at least one more year.

We'll be the only franchise in the NFL "developing" a 30-year-old QB.

OnTheWarpath58
01-12-2011, 06:00 PM
And an improved line, and the best rushing attack in football, all while facing one of the weakest schedules.

I agree that we're stuck with Cassel for another year, and a first-place schedule will be a daunting test and a true indication of his growth.

If he plays poorly, there will be a litany of excuses, however. 1. It's his third OC in three years. He deserves at least one more year.

We'll be the only franchise in the NFL "developing" a 30-year-old QB.

Yep.

I'm fully expecting the OC argument to make an appearance early next season.

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 06:04 PM
Yep.

I'm fully expecting the OC argument to make an appearance early next season.

Someone will preface the season with it. Just wait. Something along the lines of: "I know there's been a lot of criticism of Cassel, but I think we need to give him an 'evaluation'(!) year as he adjusts to another OC. He proven that he can lead us to the playoffs already!"

suzzer99
01-12-2011, 06:14 PM
Dammit I wasn't done editing my post to 4 times it's original size. Stop replying!

suzzer99
01-12-2011, 06:15 PM
ROFL

Good point, I suppose. But, even though there was about 6 months there when I would surely have starved were it not for pool, I didn't practice 24/7.

I have to believe that, at the professional level (of anything), performance expectations are somewhat high - compared to basic, amateur-level, barroom activities. It seems to me that nothing occurred in that Baltimore game that couldn't be reasonably anticipated by Cassel.

I suppose, however, there is a difference between being a "choker" and "choking". Although that may be splitting a very fine hair.

FAX

Big Rape was terrible in his first super bowl.

I fully concede that I'm operating largely on hope we don't ever see that Cassel again in a big game. But yeah, we'll find out everything we need to know next season. He's earned that which his performance this year.

DeezNutz
01-12-2011, 06:20 PM
Ideal situation:

1. Draft a legit QB prospect.
2. Keep Cassel.
3. Let n00b marinate, Rodgers style.
4. Cassel legitimately improves.
5. n00b looks very promising, and most believe he could be a starter.
6. Trade the lesser of the two QBs

Alternatively, if Cassel sucks, we have a viable plan B, which we currently do not have.

stevieray
01-12-2011, 06:25 PM
And an improved line, and the best rushing attack in football, all while facing one of the weakest schedules.

I agree that we're stuck with Cassel for another year, and a first-place schedule will be a daunting test and a true indication of his growth.

If he plays poorly, there will be a litany of excuses, however. 1. It's his third OC in three years. He deserves at least one more year.

We'll be the only franchise in the NFL "developing" a 30-year-old QB.

...he plays poorly next season, he'll be gone..I bet we draft a QB in April..

FAX
01-12-2011, 06:28 PM
Big Rape was terrible in his first super bowl.

I fully concede that I'm operating largely on hope we don't ever see that Cassel again in a big game. But yeah, we'll find out everything we need to know next season. He's earned that which his performance this year.

I'd like to get that far, Mr. suzzer99.

Meanwhile, we're up, we're down, we're okay, we're sucking, we're better, we're worse, we're okay, then we're damned to an eternity impaled upon the iron spit of mundanity as we slowly turn above the raging fires of disappointment while the hateful demons of disgrace dance gleefully about the charred flesh of ignominy as it falls from our humiliated bones.

I hope you can enjoy this because, frankly, the Cassel roller-coaster has caused me to develop a severe case of Throwaphobia and I'm going broke on scopolamine.

FAX

FAX
01-12-2011, 06:30 PM
Ideal situation:

1. Draft a legit QB prospect.
2. Keep Cassel.
3. Let n00b marinate, Rodgers style.
4. Cassel legitimately improves.
5. n00b looks very promising, and most believe he could be a starter.
6. Trade the lesser of the two QBs

Alternatively, if Cassel sucks, we have a viable plan B, which we currently do not have.

I'm down with this.

FAX THE DOWN WITH THIS

suzzer99
01-12-2011, 06:43 PM
This also gets the suzzer99 seal of approval which I know you've all been waiting for.

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/4013/hideyokidsx.jpg

(test if I can post pics yet)

Edit: yay!!!

The Bad Guy
01-12-2011, 06:48 PM
You guys have some holes to fill.

The Ravens and Raiders (Seriously?!) pushed you around all over the field.

Your Secondary is probably ok, but your REAL draft F/A needs are:

1. QB
2. defensive line
3. linebackers
4. OL
5. another WR


Your welcome.

Fuck you. Why don't you jump in a river?

The Bad Guy
01-12-2011, 06:49 PM
Ideal situation:

1. Draft a legit QB prospect.
2. Keep Cassel.
3. Let n00b marinate, Rodgers style.
4. Cassel legitimately improves.
5. n00b looks very promising, and most believe he could be a starter.
6. Trade the lesser of the two QBs

Alternatively, if Cassel sucks, we have a viable plan B, which we currently do not have.

Great plan.

I don't think a legit one will be there at 21 though. I see Mallet, Newton and Gabbert all gone.

We have to have a contingency plan in place though.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 06:52 PM
Great plan.

I don't think a legit one will be there at 21 though. I see Mallet, Newton and Gabbert all gone.

We have to have a contingency plan in place though.

I don't know anything about him but Mike Mayock his big on the QB from TCU.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/01/12/2011-nfl-draft/index.html?eref=sihp

The Bad Guy
01-12-2011, 06:53 PM
I don't know anything about him but Mike Mayock his big on the QB from TCU.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/01/12/2011-nfl-draft/index.html?eref=sihp

He's also not too hip on Locker, which makes me think that he's got a pretty good handle on the situation, even this early in the process.

Locker is a prime boom or bust guy. He can't read defenses for shit, but he's an insane athlete.

I'm not a Dalton guy at this level at all. I could be way wrong, but if he ever becomes anything more than a clipboard holder I'll be amazed.

EdReedKnocksYouOut
01-12-2011, 08:28 PM
**** you. Why don't you jump in a river?

The truth may hurt.

But you can't deny it.

Your QB, OL, LBs and DL need some serious help.

You didn't watch the last two games your team played?

Or are you one of the blind faithful that thought you had a chance coming out of halftime last week?

Chiefspants
01-12-2011, 08:45 PM
The truth may hurt.

But you can't deny it.

Your QB, OL, LBs and DL need some serious help.

You didn't watch the last two games your team played?

Or are you one of the blind faithful that thought you had a chance coming out of halftime last week?

Our DL and LBs seemed to do an okay job getting to your quarterback and stopping Rice, any defense is going to wear down when their on the field as long as the Chiefs were.

Our QB and OL, however..

BossChief
01-12-2011, 09:15 PM
Not that I'm aware of but if he were to get an NFL head coaching job, there's nothing that the Chiefs could have done to stop him because that would have been a promotion.

But they weren't about to let him out of his contract so that he could become the offensive coordinator for another NFL team, with openings in Denver and Oakland, that's for sure.

His only choice was the college game.

Well, do you blame him if thats the truth?

If its accurate, Im fully behind him for doing so.

with players streaking across the field, it's not out the realm of possibility that his line of sight could've been hampered...good, even great QB's miss open/wide open WR's.

lots going on in those few seconds..

He had 70 yards Stevie.

70

He missed EVERY open receiver ALL GAME.

Good/Great QBs dont miss EVERY open receiver all game long in the playoffs, they find a way to elevate the WHOLE TEAMS PLAY and are even more effective in the biggest games.

Cassel has been the bizzarro good/great qb in the games where we needed him THE MOST.

The truth may hurt.

But you can't deny it.

Your QB, OL, LBs and DL need some serious help.

You didn't watch the last two games your team played?

Or are you one of the blind faithful that thought you had a chance coming out of halftime last week?

I actually agree with you in a way.

We need a QB, C, RT, LOLB and NT...and a good WR to pair with Bowe.

We add those pieces over the next two years and we will be in position to beat the big boys.

stevieray
01-12-2011, 09:26 PM
ALL GAME.

.
ya, all EIGHTEEN minutes....and Charles had nine carries.

...the whole offense was out of sync, sans the first drive.

I'm not the one who says he's peaked, then wants to add a caveat.

BossChief
01-12-2011, 09:37 PM
ya, all EIGHTEEN minutes....and Charles had nine carries.

...the whole offense was out of sync, sans the first drive.

I'm not the one who says he's peaked, then wants to add a caveat.

I didnt add anything after the fact, it was all in the same exact post. YOU chose to delete part of the post and then act like I was the one who wanted to move the goalposts.

Go back and read through.

Deep down, you KNOW what the Oakland and Baltimore games mean for our upcoming schedule without Weis to hide Matt Cassel from opposing defenses.

He will be facing the best defenses in the NFL week in and week out and we will all know by this time next year what we have.

I think we have seen the best out of the guy, but as always time will tell.

stevieray
01-12-2011, 09:41 PM
I didnt add anything after the fact, it was all in the same exact post. YOU chose to delete part of the post and then act like I was the one who wanted to move the goalposts.

Go back and read through.

Deep down, you KNOW what the Oakland and Baltimore games mean for our upcoming schedule without Weis to hide Matt Cassel from opposing defenses.

He will be facing the best defenses in the NFL week in and week out and we will all know by this time next year what we have.

I think we have seen the best out of the guy, but as always time will tell.

please don't try to tell me what I feel deep down....those are YOUR feelings.

:spock:

you just contradicted yourself.

again, you just NOW stated we have seen the best out of him. I disagree.

let's bet..one year ban.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 09:46 PM
We need a QB, C, RT, LOLB and NT...and a good WR to pair with Bowe.

We add those pieces over the next two years and we will be in position to beat the big boys.

Beat? Maybe.

Be in the game?

Certainly.

This year went exactly as predicted by many:

Win plenty of games against powderpuff football teams, so much so that many people would predict the Chiefs were "Back"!

But once they faced true a perennial playoff opponent, the truth about the Chiefs "progress" would be revealed.

The bottom line is that many young players were able to experience a playoff atmosphere, which is great for team building and the future. But this team is a several players away from competing in the playoffs, let alone winning a playoff game.

BossChief
01-12-2011, 09:52 PM
please don't try to tell me what I feel deep down....those are YOUR feelings.

:spock:

you just contradicted yourself.

again, you just NOW stated we have seen the best out of him. I disagree.

let's bet..one year ban.

I am not interested in a 1 year ban bet.

My caveat stands of any bet ending the moment Josh McDaniels hires on (IF he hires on) and I am very interested in backing those words, but not with the board losing either of us in the process...at least not for that long.

FTR I havent contradicted anything I have posted in the past with my takes in this thread. I have said since the day Charlie Weis was brought on that it was an invaluable move and that he would help Cassel by leaps and bounds, I feel Josh McDaniels could have the same effect, but not too many others could.

If we dont hire a premier QB coach to help him through this upcoming year against some elite defenses, its gonna be a long year.

BossChief
01-12-2011, 09:57 PM
Beat? Maybe.

Be in the game?

Certainly.

This year went exactly as predicted by many:

Win plenty of games against powderpuff football teams, so much so that many people would predict the Chiefs were "Back"!

But once they faced true a perennial playoff opponent, the truth about the Chiefs "progress" would be revealed.

The bottom line is that many young players were able to experience a playoff atmosphere, which is great for team building and the future. But this team is a several players away from competing in the playoffs, let alone winning a playoff game.

Dude, before the year the vast majority of the board thought anyone thinking a 8-8 or 9-7 record was laughable. I even had a thread that I got laughed at for suggesting it.

We all knew the schedule would be a somewhat easy one when everybody thought 7-9 was our ceiling.

I agree with the rest of the post.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 10:04 PM
Dude, before the year the vast majority of the board thought anyone thinking a 8-8 or 9-7 record was laughable. I even had a thread that I got laughed at for suggesting it.

That's because no one could have nor did predict the clusterfuck that was San Diego, San Francisco or Cleveland (a team that had just schooled the Chiefs). Well, outside of Chiefs Homers, anyway.

The Chiefs won 10 games against inferior competition and lost to better teams. The Chiefs didn't beat a team with a winning record all season (outside of SD in Week One). They were outscored 61-17 in their final two games and their QB didn't have higher than a 20 QB rating in either game.

It's possible that Chicago, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, New England, San Diego, Indy and Oakland could all completely shit the bed in 2011, thus making it possible for the Chiefs to win 10 games next season.

But I don't think it's as likely as the Chiefs beating SF, Arizona, Seattle, St. Louis & Cleveland in 2010.

EdReedKnocksYouOut
01-12-2011, 10:10 PM
Our DL and LBs seemed to do an okay job getting to your quarterback and stopping Rice, any defense is going to wear down when their on the field as long as the Chiefs were.

Our QB and OL, however..

You could use a WR to take the heat off of Bowe. He's a solid guy, who can exploit weak CBs but seems to suffer when more experienced safeties shade his side.

Your DL has one or two guys that are good, but you need more depth. Great Defenses have solid starting DL and LBs but are also 2-3 guys deep in those positions. For our team its the no-name guys like Kelly Gregg and Cory Redding that are little heard of, but take some important reps. We were often fresh in the 2nd half of games this year because of them. It doesn't show in our sack numbers but we did do a good job speeding up the release and messing up the rhythm of our opponents.

As for the DL and LB getting to Flacco, keep in mind that the Ravens O line has been terrible all year. Flacco's the 4th or 5th most sacked QB in the league. The Ravens have suffered with Gaither on IR. Gaither's injury has had us shuffling our OL all year long and playing three starters out of their natural positions.

BossChief
01-12-2011, 10:35 PM
That's because no one could have nor did predict the cluster**** that was San Diego, San Francisco or Cleveland (a team that had just schooled the Chiefs). Well, outside of Chiefs Homers, anyway.

The Chiefs won 10 games against inferior competition and lost to better teams. The Chiefs didn't beat a team with a winning record all season (outside of SD in Week One). They were outscored 61-17 in their final two games and their QB didn't have higher than a 20 QB rating in either game.

It's possible that Chicago, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, New England, San Diego, Indy and Oakland could all completely shit the bed in 2011, thus making it possible for the Chiefs to win 10 games next season.

But I don't think it's as likely as the Chiefs beating SF, Arizona, Seattle, St. Louis & Cleveland in 2010.

My thread gave 10 reasons that we had to have a chance at a winning record that 7 came to fruition...I dont see that as homerism as much as calculated predictions of a fan that has followed this team religiously since childhood.

I am in the belief that we can win 8-10 games next year if we add a PREMIER QB coach and at least 3 good starter quality players at crucial positions as well as quality depth.

If we dont add a guy that can help Cassel through the upcoming season in which we play a murderers row of defenses that will know how to attack us, we may well have another top 10 draft pick next year.

To me, adding a premier qb coach is MORE important than adding any single player (sans a new shiny franchise quarterback prospect)

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2011, 11:02 PM
I am in the belief that we can win 8-10 games next year if we add a PREMIER QB coach and at least 3 good starter quality players at crucial positions as well as quality depth.

If we don't add a guy that can help Cassel through the upcoming season in which we play a murderers row of defenses that will know how to attack us, we may well have another top 10 draft pick next year.

To me, adding a premier qb coach is MORE important than adding any single player (sans a new shiny franchise quarterback prospect)

Well, the Chiefs just had THE GUY. Cassel had 27 TD's and 5 INT's heading into his final two games where once it was announced his PREMIERE coach was leaving, promptly shit himself and reverted to Matt Cassel December 2009 (QB rating of 20 for two consecutive games).

With that said, even Matt Cassel of 2010, as evidenced by the Oakland & Baltimore games, couldn't beat the Patriots, Steelers, Bears, et al without serious upgrades at center, WR, possibly left guard and another tight end, let alone NT, OLB, ILB and depth.

Cassel was 2-4 in the division and couldn't muster enough grit or talent to beat Indy or Houston, let alone Oakland (twice) or Baltimore.

This team is a quite a ways away on January 12th, 2011, from being elite.

BossChief
01-12-2011, 11:19 PM
Well, the Chiefs just had THE GUY. Cassel had 27 TD's and 5 INT's heading into his final two games where once it was announced his PREMIERE coach was leaving, promptly shit himself and reverted to Matt Cassel December 2009 (QB rating of 20 for two consecutive games).

With that said, even Matt Cassel of 2010, as evidenced by the Oakland & Baltimore games, couldn't beat the Patriots, Steelers, Bears, et al without serious upgrades at center, WR, possibly left guard and another tight end, let alone NT, OLB, ILB and depth.

Cassel was 2-4 in the division and couldn't muster enough grit or talent to beat Indy or Houston, let alone Oakland (twice) or Baltimore.

This team is a quite a ways away on January 12th, 2011, from being elite.

for the most part, you are preaching to the choir here.

Cassel was 2-3 against the division as he didnt play against SD in the second meeting.

He did enough to beat Houston, the defense didn't and the blame for that loss shouldn't be Cassels IMO. The only part I think he could have done better was th final chance when he threw a very poor pass to Moeaki when a play was there to be made that would have sealed the deal.

We should have beaten Oakland the first time and that loss shouldn't really be on his shoulders either, again IMO.

When the rumors of Weis leaving grew legs and became a reality, I felt the way I did when Priest Holmes fumbled against Indy in the 03 playoff game...like the real hope had withered for the foreseable future.

In Piolis eyes, Im convinced this year was enough for him to think he can continue on with Cassel and not make qb a priority in any way and that will likely cost us more opportunities to acquire a real guy in the next two drafts.

Fuck me.

FAX
01-12-2011, 11:30 PM
Really, this was my worst fear coming into the season. Exactly the worst.

Cassel plays well enough to warrant an arrowhead on his helmet, yet does not appear to develop sufficiently to prove he has a head in his helmet. I can't believe we're going through this quarterback saga once more. Why can't we just draft a quarterback who can play?

FAX

BossChief
01-12-2011, 11:37 PM
Really, this was my worst fear coming into the season. Exactly the worst.

Cassel plays well enough to warrant an arrowhead on his helmet, yet does not appear to develop sufficiently to prove he has a head in his helmet. I can't believe we're going through this quarterback saga once more. Why can't we just draft a quarterback who can play?

FAX
exactly this

Guru
01-12-2011, 11:38 PM
Why the hell is this thread still active?

Bugeater
01-12-2011, 11:39 PM
Why the hell is this thread still active?
Because people keep posting in it, like you just did.

Guru
01-12-2011, 11:40 PM
See, Chiefsplanet does make you dumber.

Bugeater
01-12-2011, 11:42 PM
I know, I used to be a fucking genious. Now I'm just another moran.

Guru
01-12-2011, 11:44 PM
I know, I used to be a ****ing genious. Now I'm just another moran.At least you are not a MUron.

Chiefnj2
01-13-2011, 07:38 AM
Really? I respect your opinion on all matters football, Mr. Rausch. Over the years, you have displayed exceptional knowledge of the great game.

Why don't you think he "chokes"? I ask because that would honestly be my blunt assessment of his performance last Sunday. I'm thinking of those scrambles when he actually had time to throw and receivers reasonably open (if not very open).

FAX

You aren't asking me, but I'll give you my thoughts.

Cassel didn't come out and choke. He was typical Cassel in the first half - efficient. He got lucky on the one INT, but the pass protection in the 1st half wasn't that good, there was a crucial fumble, crucial false start, and the Ravens D was keying on Bowe leaving Cassel to throw to a bunch of guys he met three days before and guys that shouldn't be on an NFL roster, plus the play calling wasn't that great.

Cassel fell apart when the rest of the O fell apart. That's the problem. When things get tough, he doesn't consistently step up and raise the team, he goes down with the ship. You need that QB who can avoid pressure, shake off a hit and get the ball into small windows when things look bleak. Cassel hasn't shown the ability to do that.

You can win 10 games with him. If KC corrects all of the other shortcomings, maybe you can win a wildcard game. But, when it really matters, he hasn't shown the ability.

To take the next step, KC needs a better QB.

BossChief
01-13-2011, 09:27 AM
Your post started off realy bad but, You have taken thefirst step of many on the road of recovery from Cassenial