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View Full Version : Chiefs Rich Baldinger says Romeo Crennel's D looked confused.


googlegoogle
01-11-2011, 01:00 AM
He said that mistakes in covering Todd Heap were ours and that Crennel's system wasn't flexible. Derrick Johnson and E.Berry weren't working together and instead just bumping into each other. In one replay they showed Heap not even getting touched because of confusion.

Romeo's reputation tarnished a little?

WebGem
01-11-2011, 01:01 AM
Hopefully tarnished enough to keep him away from another HC job so he stays here.

ForeverChiefs58
01-11-2011, 06:07 AM
I think anyone/everyone who saw the playcalling and Cassel's decision making was confused as hell.

alpha_omega
01-11-2011, 06:15 AM
Pfft, that's it, we weren't outplayed...we were just confused.

ChiefGator
01-11-2011, 06:40 AM
Stupid. Wonder why he didn't say, "Chiefs defensive players become confused by Ravens offensive sets, despite first year defensive coordinator's fairly vanilla defensive schemes"

Rubbage piece. Of course we looked confused, they consistently had problems covering the middle of the field. We looked outplayed and out-talented as well.

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 07:10 AM
An offense that is on the field just 18 minutes may be part of the problem... just sayin'. :arrow:

beach tribe
01-11-2011, 07:15 AM
After the game Todd Heap was asked what was the key to his success or something to the like, and he said, "We saw that they were playing the same coverage over, and over so we kept attacking it the same way" and i thought, yeah, that's what it looked like to me.

KCUnited
01-11-2011, 07:20 AM
He killed the defense on his tape breakdown on Metro Sports. He killed the offense too. He would show the confusion between the LB's (Johnson, Belcher, Vrabel) and the safeties (Berry, McGraw). He showed how McGraw would have Heap and Johnson would have Rice and when the ball was snapped they would run into each other and Heap would come free. The crux of what he was saying is that good players break away from the coaches scheme when they see something that isn't working and go to the sideline and tell coach why they did what they did.

He said the scheme wasn't working but none of the players on the field made any adjustments on their own.

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 07:25 AM
He killed the defense on his tape breakdown on Metro Sports. He killed the offense too. He would show the confusion between the LB's (Johnson, Belcher, Vrabel) and the safeties (Berry, McGraw). He showed how McGraw would have Heap and Johnson would have Rice and when the ball was snapped they would run into each other and Heap would come free. The crux of what he was saying is that good players break away from the coaches scheme when they see something that isn't working and go to the sideline and tell coach why they did what they did.

He said the scheme wasn't working but none of the players on the field made any adjustments on their own.

Baldy usually knows what he's talking about. But its tough to lay this game on the defense when we had 8 1st downs and 18 minutes TOP and 5 TOs.

KCUnited
01-11-2011, 07:29 AM
Baldy usually knows what he's talking about. But its tough to lay this game on the defense when we had 8 1st downs and 18 minutes TOP and 5 TOs.

He wasn't laying the loss on the defense, he was simply pointing out obvious breakdowns in the scheme. He broke down the defficiencies on offense as well, like the 4 & 1. he exposed Weigman's improper technique and the fact that Pope didn't even know who he supposed to be blocking. We sucked on both sides of the ball equally.

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 07:31 AM
He wasn't laying the loss on the defense, he was simply pointing out obvious breakdowns in the scheme. He broke down the defficiencies on offense as well, like the 4 & 1. he exposed Weigman's improper technique and the fact that Pope didn't even know who he supposed to be blocking. We sucked on both sides of the ball equally.
Aside from the free pass KC gave Heap, I though the Chiefs' D played respectably considering the O held the ball just 18 minutes...

keg in kc
01-11-2011, 07:33 AM
An offense that is on the field just 18 minutes may be part of the problem... just sayin'. :arrow:That would be a valid comment if the defense hadn't started the game by allowing two 10-plus play drives by Baltimore. And then closed the half by allowing a third.

Those three first half drives combined to take up 16 minutes in time of possession. The defense couldn't get itself off the field. Flacco had nearly 200 yards passing at halftime.

Sorry, but that's not on the offense.

The turnovers certainly helped turn the game after halftime, but Baltimore's offense had their way from the opening gun.

Total team loss. Bad on offense. Bad on defense.

The Bad Guy
01-11-2011, 07:33 AM
At halftime, this D gave up 10 points. In the 2nd half, they were constantly put in bad spots and gave up 20 more.

This loss had far more to do with the offense.

Hog Farmer
01-11-2011, 07:36 AM
Our O definitely helped to making our D look bad. I was impressed with our D to tell you the truth but the Ravens were sure getting their 3rd down conversions. 42 minutes is too long to keep your D on the field.

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 07:37 AM
That would be a valid comment if the defense hadn't started the game by allowing two 10-plus play drives by Baltimore. And then closed the half by allowing a third.

Those three first half drives combined to take up 16 minutes in time of possession. The defense couldn't get itself off the field. Flacco had nearly 200 yards passing at halftime.

Sorry, but that's not on the offense.

The turnovers certainly helped turn the game after halftime, but Baltimore's offense had their way from the opening gun.

Total team loss. Bad on offense. Bad on defense.

That would be plausible but for the fact that the score was 10-7 at halftime. The Chiefs had the ball just 10 minutes in the first half. Baltimore cannot conduct long drives while KC has the ball.

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 07:38 AM
Our O definitely helped to making our D look bad. I was impressed with our D to tell you the truth but the Ravens were sure getting their 3rd down conversions. 42 minutes is too long to keep your D on the field.

Exactly.

beach tribe
01-11-2011, 07:47 AM
Total team loss. Bad on offense. Bad on defense.

This. All of the back, and forth about whose fault this is, is absurd.

The Whole team got it's ass kicked. There were some individuals who won battles, but the units as wholes got bitch slapped on both sides of the ball.

58-4ever
01-11-2011, 07:57 AM
Our pathetic offense kept the defense on the field for nearly 80 plays. Not only that, but had the offense done ANYTHING at the end of the first half, the defense would have held the Ravens to 3 points in the first half.

This is dumb to even talk about.

keg in kc
01-11-2011, 08:11 AM
That would be plausible but for the fact that the score was 10-7 at halftime. The Chiefs had the ball just 10 minutes in the first half. Baltimore cannot conduct long drives while KC has the ball.This is the problem with looking at the game in a vacuum.

This is how the game started. We kickoff. The defense allows a 6 minute drive. The offense goes three and out and then the defense allows a 4 and a half minute drive. Hali makes a great play to end that drive and then Charles scors his TD.

So we're still in the first quarter, Baltimore has held the ball for 10:30 while KC has held it for less than 2:30. But Kansas City has the lead, 7-3.

What you're saying, in essence, is that those two initial drives by Baltimore are the offense's fault, first because they had to punt and then because they scored too fast.

Let's keep going. The third time Baltimore has the ball, they only hold it for 5 plays. But they gain another 40 yards before they punt (oh, I'd forgotten that part of it, by this point Baltimore has 140 yards of offense and 8 first downs, although, fortunately they only have 3 points...). This is barely into the second quarter, mind you. 140 yards of offense and 8 first downs. In just over a quarter.

(But it's all the offense's fault)

At this point KC's offense has begun to move the ball a bit. Believe it or not, Baltimore doesn't have much of a combined edge in ToP for the 2nd and 3rd quarters. About 30 seconds (15:15 to 14:45 for KC). Most of the disparity in time of possession at that point in the game stems from the first quarter, as I mentioned above. They don't score any points, but they do move the football (the only time in the game that they really do so...) and they do take some time off the clock. The defense has some time to breathe.

And they respond, they force a 3-and-out, on Baltimore's fourth drive. This was the punt following Charles' fumble. Their only 3-and-out of the entire game.

The offense holds the ball for another 3 minutes or so, gains 40 yards and punts again. The defense should be in a fairly good position, at that point. Baltimore has the ball on the 20 yards line. So what happens? KC allows an 11-play, 80 yard drive that bleeds another 5:50 off the clock.

This is all before halftime, mind you. That's three extended drives allowed by the defense.

It's a team game. I know it's easier to pick a target and blame it on them, lord knows there's been enough Cassel talk already, but the reality is that it's a team game. And the team did not perform. The defense did not perform at a playoff level. Was the offense even worse? Sure. But that doesn't change the fact that Baltimore just bent the Chiefs defense over for four quarters and had their way, and it started from the opening gun, long, long before anybody could point a finger at offensive woes.

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 08:15 AM
The defense did not perform at a playoff level. Was the offense even worse? Sure.

Thank you.

KCJohnny
01-11-2011, 08:15 AM
Our pathetic offense kept the defense on the field for nearly 80 plays. Not only that, but had the offense done ANYTHING at the end of the first half, the defense would have held the Ravens to 3 points in the first half.

This is dumb to even talk about.
This.

ChiefsNow
01-11-2011, 08:18 AM
They probably looked confused because they were thinking
"Don't most teams have an offense??????"

siberian khatru
01-11-2011, 08:20 AM
This is the problem with looking at the game in a vacuum.

This is how the game started. We kickoff. The defense allows a 6 minute drive. The offense goes three and out and then the defense allows a 4 and a half minute drive. Hali makes a great play to end that drive and then Charles scors his TD.

So we're still in the first quarter, Baltimore has held the ball for 10:30 while KC has held it for less than 2:30. But Kansas City has the lead, 7-3.

What you're saying, in essence, is that those two initial drives by Baltimore are the offense's fault, first because they had to punt and then because they scored too fast.

Let's keep going. The third time Baltimore has the ball, they only hold it for 5 plays. But they gain another 40 yards before they punt (oh, I'd forgotten that part of it, by this point Baltimore has 140 yards of offense and 8 first downs, although, fortunately they only have 3 points...). This is barely into the second quarter, mind you. 140 yards of offense and 8 first downs. In just over a quarter.

(But it's all the offense's fault)

At this point KC's offense has begun to move the ball a bit. Believe it or not, Baltimore doesn't have much of a combined edge in ToP for the 2nd and 3rd quarters. About 30 seconds (15:15 to 14:45 for KC). Most of the disparity in time of possession at that point in the game stems from the first quarter, as I mentioned above. They don't score any points, but they do move the football (the only time in the game that they really do so...) and they do take some time off the clock. The defense has some time to breathe.

And they respond, they force a 3-and-out, on Baltimore's fourth drive. This was the punt following Charles' fumble. Their only 3-and-out of the entire game.

The offense holds the ball for another 3 minutes or so, gains 40 yards and punts again. The defense should be in a fairly good position, at that point. Baltimore has the ball on the 20 yards line. So what happens? KC allows an 11-play, 80 yard drive that bleeds another 5:50 off the clock.

This is all before halftime, mind you. That's three extended drives allowed by the defense.

It's a team game. I know it's easier to pick a target and blame it on them, lord knows there's been enough Cassel talk already, but the reality is that it's a team game. And the team did not perform. The defense did not perform at a playoff level. Was the offense even worse? Sure. But that doesn't change the fact that Baltimore just bent the Chiefs defense over for four quarters and had their way, and it started from the opening gun, long, long before anybody could point a finger at offensive woes.

:bravo:

And to add to the bolded ... they allowed Balt to convert a 3rd and 12 deep in Ravens territory. It was a HUGE play. That and the 4th and 1 were the two biggest plays, IMO.

keg in kc
01-11-2011, 08:29 AM
That 4th and 1 may have been the most important play of the game.

siberian khatru
01-11-2011, 08:32 AM
That 4th and 1 may have been the most important play of the game.

After that, we just collapsed. NOTHING went right, on offense or defense.

Dave Lane
01-11-2011, 08:50 AM
Bob Fescoe just reported that Todd Haley called all the defensive plays after the half.

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 08:52 AM
After that, we just collapsed. NOTHING went right, on offense or defense.

Nothing went right for the offense all day. Even the early flea flicker was a busted mess.

KCUnited
01-11-2011, 08:56 AM
Our struggles on offense had nothing to do with the flawed scheme on defense and that's what Baldinger was pointing out.

Maybe the defense wasn't as bad as the offense, but that's the thing about a shart, it's not a huge steaming pile, but if you do it while your sleeping you still shit the bed.

penguinz
01-11-2011, 08:56 AM
Bob Fescoe just reported that Todd Haley called all the plays after the half.Haley took the play calling duties from Weis because he was pissed about the pizza always having anchovies on it.

MOhillbilly
01-11-2011, 09:02 AM
The KC D is in desprate need of another safety. Not having a base safety tandum that can play run and pass got us killed this year.
vrabel is so old its a joke and studebaker plays outta position so thats a huge amount of field for an offense to exploit.

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 09:04 AM
The KC D is in desprate need of another safety. Not having a base safety tandum that can play run and pass got us killed this year.
vrabel is so old its a joke and studebaker plays outta position so thats a huge amount of field for an offense to exploit.

Studebaker was big disappointment after showing an occasional flash early on.

The Bad Guy
01-11-2011, 09:23 AM
The KC D is in desprate need of another safety. Not having a base safety tandum that can play run and pass got us killed this year.
vrabel is so old its a joke and studebaker plays outta position so thats a huge amount of field for an offense to exploit.

I'm confused about the safety comment. I think Lewis is an ascending player as well.

Dave Lane
01-11-2011, 09:27 AM
I'm confused about the safety comment. I think Lewis is an ascending player as well.

Yep I think a little more seasoning he is going to be a good one.

MOhillbilly
01-11-2011, 09:31 AM
I'm confused about the safety comment. I think Lewis is an ascending player as well.

i didnt think lewis played the run worth a shit this year.

The Bad Guy
01-11-2011, 09:38 AM
i didnt think lewis played the run worth a shit this year.

I agree with you, but I don't know too many FS that play it well at all.

I think it had more to do with scheme than anyhting.

Extra Point
01-11-2011, 09:52 AM
ALL OF THE ABOVE.

MOhillbilly
01-11-2011, 09:53 AM
I agree with you, but I don't know too many FS that play it well at all.

I think it had more to do with scheme than anyhting.

or a lack of faith in his tackling ability.

Wallcrawler
01-11-2011, 09:54 AM
We definately need another OLB to play opposite Hali. Vrabel is washed up, and while I like Studebaker, he's not the guy. He's a decent sub/situational player but thats about it. He's looked good only in comparison to Vrabel's glaring weakness.

I think Lewis should get a chance to come back and compete again next year. When he was out of the lineup, the secondary suffered. It wasnt even in question. In terms of run defense, once the team secures a real NT and replaces Vrabel, the run D will fix itself. Dorsey and Smith, and an actual NT will make for a sound DL. Berry was often the man in the box as far as safety play, and he was flat out destructive against the run. If Kendrick Lewis is having to make a tackle against the run, its usually because the front 7-8 didnt do its job in the first place.

The Bad Guy
01-11-2011, 09:58 AM
or a lack of faith in his tackling ability.

He played a lot of strong safety in college so I doubt that's it.

He made some tackles this year.

patteeu
01-11-2011, 10:13 AM
An offense that is on the field just 18 minutes may be part of the problem... just sayin'. :arrow:

The problems with the defense started on the very first drive.

patteeu
01-11-2011, 10:14 AM
Aside from the free pass KC gave Heap, I though the Chiefs' D played respectably considering the O held the ball just 18 minutes...

That's a pretty huge aside.

patteeu
01-11-2011, 10:14 AM
That would be a valid comment if the defense hadn't started the game by allowing two 10-plus play drives by Baltimore. And then closed the half by allowing a third.

Those three first half drives combined to take up 16 minutes in time of possession. The defense couldn't get itself off the field. Flacco had nearly 200 yards passing at halftime.

Sorry, but that's not on the offense.

The turnovers certainly helped turn the game after halftime, but Baltimore's offense had their way from the opening gun.

Total team loss. Bad on offense. Bad on defense.

Bingo

Dicky McElephant
01-11-2011, 10:19 AM
I think Lewis hit the rookie wall where Berry didn't. Lewis and Berry are going to be even better next year.

Studebaker has done nothing for this coaching staff to give him more playing time. We definitely need another OLB to bookend Hali. A NT and an OLB would improve this defense immensly.

JASONSAUTO
01-11-2011, 10:23 AM
or a lack of faith in his tackling ability.

i agree here, if you watch some of the games closely you will see lewis struggle to tackle sometimes. i mentioned it early in the season and IMO it continued throughout. i still think he is ascending though

JASONSAUTO
01-11-2011, 10:24 AM
He played a lot of strong safety in college so I doubt that's it.

He made some tackles this year.

he looked foolish on some whiffs too.

JASONSAUTO
01-11-2011, 10:24 AM
I think Lewis hit the rookie wall where Berry didn't. Lewis and Berry are going to be even better next year.

Studebaker has done nothing for this coaching staff to give him more playing time. We definitely need another OLB to bookend Hali. A NT and an OLB would improve this defense immensly.

i think he will be better next year also but lewis had tackling issues from day one. NOT pollard style but still not good enough IMO

Coogs
01-11-2011, 10:33 AM
I saw a replay of the first pass of the game to Boldin being broken down by Merril Hoge on ESPN a couple nights ago. He showed the fullback going into motion to the left, and DJ following him out. He said that move by DJ allowed the offense to know the coverage was man coverage. Then once the fullback got to the outside, we wound up with Carr and DJ matched up on Boldin and the FB. However, somehow DJ wound up covering Boldin, and Carr had the FB. Boldin came across the middle and went for 27 yards. Hoge said the defense continued to make like this all day.

It was facinating to watch him break down the tape. And I am not blaiming anything/anybody for the loss. Just telling you what I saw about one play on TV being reviewed by Hoge.

CoMoChief
01-11-2011, 10:53 AM
He said that mistakes in covering Todd Heap were ours and that Crennel's system wasn't flexible. Derrick Johnson and E.Berry weren't working together and instead just bumping into each other. In one replay they showed Heap not even getting touched because of confusion.

Romeo's reputation tarnished a little?

Defenses have bad games, even the good ones. Hell how in the **** did Buffalo put up 30+ pts on the Ravens a couple months ago? It just so happens this was a bad time to have one of those bad games. I dunno if it was the gameplan or what...but this team has been notorious this season for letting opposing TE's rape the defense. Sometimes you just get outcoached, and sometimes coaches get outcoached because of the talent (or lack there of) that's out on the field. And sometimes your defense gets tired because the offense repeatedly over and over again goes 3 n out. There are many factors, and really you can never blame just one person when there are 11 players on the field and multiple coaches that are involved with the gameplan. You just got to hope that the coaches put the team in the best position to win the game and let the players play.

Overall I think the defense improved dramatically from what it once was. This team has had to dig themselves out of a roughly 15 year hole of defensive neglect with horrible old veteran FA signings and COMPLETELY ignoring the draft on the defensive side of the ball. (Hell really ignoring the draft all together - besides TG in 1997 we haven't really drafted shit on offense up until a few seasons ago).

We're making strides in the right direction. This is a team still in transition and some can say that we have 4 potential pro bowlers on our roster on defense in Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, Brandon Flowers, Eric Berry. Not to mention some very serviceable defensive players to go along with them like Dorsey, Carr, Studebaker (man I wish he would get more snaps). Not sold yet on Lewis, Jackson, Arenas, or Belcher, but the secondary is the least of our worries on defense. Once the front 7 gets better bigger plays in the secondary will come. Everything starts up front.

Add another ILB, another passrusher, and a "true" big fat **** NT, and I think this defense is set and can be a force for a VERY long time. They're still a young defense, and last weekend they found out real quick what it's like to play with the big boys when it counts. I think if anything this year was a learning experience for a lot of players. Hopefully they can build and get better.

What worries me is the offense. Cassel improved but to be honest his mechanics and reads are just shit at times. If this team really wants to make some noise in the postseason we need a true franchise QB, not a game manager. We need Oline depth BADLY including a couple starters wouldn't hurt like RT and beef up the interior a little as Weigman is small/old and nearing the end of his career. Since we can't rely on our QB like the Colts, Pats, Saints, Packers can we need to get Cassel more guys to throw to and let them make the plays. We need 2 more WR's to compliment Bowe and I would love to get TE Kevin Boss in FA...anything to have Leonard Pope ride the pine.

Not to mention probably the most important thing that people rarely talk about that's a backup QB. Croyle sucks. I will eat my crow...I was wrong but I think in part of that is because I was desperate to see Cassel go (in any fashion). At times Cassel looked so pathetic (like last Sun) it looked like we wasted away a shit ton of money on a QB that had NO CLUE on how to play the position. This team, this city for the LONGEST TIME has wanted the Chiefs to draft/groom their own franchise QB, we've been starving for it....Croyle was a somewhat highly touted passer coming out of college, had a cannon arm, could make all the throws...Chiefs fans were badly desperately in need of a franchise groomed QB, not some clipboard holder from another team, even though at times we've been successful with some of them. Well this season Croyle officially knocked me off of whatever bandwagon I was on before supporting his ass. He's just not an NFL QB, never will be, maybe a 3rd stringer at best. He just doesn't have it, combine that with his injury bug. K Im dont ranting. This team needs an insurance policy if Cassel should go down....also needs to push Cassel in practice if anything.

B_Ambuehl
01-11-2011, 10:54 AM
The defense does what Belichik/Parcells/Crennel defenses do. They stop the run with 7, don't give up big plays, force you to drive the ball, and play good in the red zone.

Belichik plays a lot more straight up D than the media thinks. He doesn't mix up coverages near as much as advertised, doesn't blitz much, and will run the same defense snap after snap after snap. Look at the pats statistically on D.

As bad as the popular opinion against the defense is from that game, they gave us a chance. They got a sack fumble and held baltimore to 3 red zone field goals. The offense has to play better football.

Coogs
01-11-2011, 10:57 AM
BTW, Hoge also said something along the lines of even though the Chiefs continued to make the mistakes all game long, they were problems that were fixable and that as this team continues to grow he expected this sort of thing will be taken care of in the future.

aturnis
01-11-2011, 11:25 AM
For a little perspective. If you take away all of the stuff flacco threw underneath, Flacco was 10 of 19 for only 150 yds. If Romeo adjusts to everything that was happening underneath, this may have been a different game, it'd be really interesting to know how their third down percentage would have changed.

Was Crennel scared they'd beat us deep, or just didn't trust our young safeties?

Frosty
01-11-2011, 11:41 AM
You know, I would really, really like to see a Chiefs defense where I wasn't concerned about 3rd and long. It's been ages. I would almost rather see a team in 3rd and 4 than 3rd and 12 and it has been that way far too long. :banghead:

milkman
01-11-2011, 11:45 AM
For a little perspective. If you take away all of the stuff flacco threw underneath, Flacco was 10 of 19 for only 150 yds. If Romeo adjusts to everything that was happening underneath, this may have been a different game, it'd be really interesting to know how their third down percentage would have changed.

Was Crennel scared they'd beat us deep, or just didn't trust our young safeties?

I think Crennel schemed to take the deep ball away from Flacco and tried ot make him a game manager, something that Flacco usually struggles with.

The problem was that that he made it too easy, and even a QB that struugles to manage games should have been able to take advantage of how the plan was executed.

FAX
01-11-2011, 11:49 AM
I don't know what Crennel was thinking. It appeared that we were most often in sort of a man/zone type of deal which caused the middle of the field to be open and Heap to have his career day.

What I don't understand is this; why didn't they figure out the problem after say ... the 4th Heap catch over the middle for a 1st? I'm no Crennel, but I think I would have put a backer on him at the line and knocked Heap's ass into next week a few times when he came off the line just for starters.

FAX

KCUnited
01-11-2011, 11:57 AM
What I don't understand is this; why didn't they figure out the problem after say ... the 4th Heap catch over the middle for a 1st? I'm no Crennel, but I think I would have put a backer on him at the line and knocked Heap's ass into next week a few times when he came off the line just for starters.

FAX

One of the clips Baldinger broke down showed Vrabel lined up over Heap and let him off the line with no contact. By the time Belcher was on him, he was passed 5 yards with a head of steam. No way Belcher could cover him at that point.

Simple pitch and catch.

FAX
01-11-2011, 12:04 PM
What am I missing?

It seems as though, if your enemy's go-to-guy is the tight end, you put somebody on the damn guy to, at least, disrupt his timing. (Not that they needed much timing since he was basically just running to the giant empty space in the zone.)

Moeaki, for example, was blanketed most of the day one on one. They could have played man on the WRs and zone with the backers and safeties and still taken him out of the game.

Maybe I just don't understand football.

FAX

Chiefnj2
01-11-2011, 12:06 PM
They were talking to Heap after the game and were talking about his 10 grabs. I was disgusted when he basically said - until they could show they could stop it, we were keep going to the well with the same plays.