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booger
01-13-2011, 12:18 AM
Chiefs have some tough personnel decisions to make
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

Casey Wiegmann was a free-agent find for the Chiefs last year. The veteran center returned for his second tour of duty with the Chiefs and played perhaps better than any of their other offensive lineman.

But Wiegmann will be 38 in July and the Chiefs face an interesting decision whether to re-sign him for 2011. Wiegmann isn’t the only player with an expiring contract. He’s just one of 25 players on their roster without a contract for 2011.

The Chiefs have six significant unsigned players on defense, including both of their top pass rushers, outside linebacker Tamba Hali and end Wallace Gilberry. Hali led the AFC with a career-high 14 1/2 sacks last season and added another two in the playoff loss to Baltimore.

Gilberry added seven sacks in the regular season. No other Chiefs player had more than three. Their combined total of 21 1/2 was more than half of the team’s 38.

The Chiefs re-signed some of their better young players during the season, including linebacker Derrick Johnson and running back Jamaal Charles, but made no apparent move to re-sign either Hali, who is 27, or Gilberry, 26.

Outside linebacker Mike Vrabel is 35 and has no contract for 2010. The Chiefs have been grooming Andy Studebaker to take Vrabel’s starting spot eventually. Vrabel lost some of his playing time last season to Studebaker, but the Chiefs would face a leadership void without Vrabel.

Other defensive players without 2011 contracts include cornerback Brandon Carr and defensive linemen Ron Edwards and Shaun Smith. Carr was drafted to play the zone system used by former coach Herm Edwards, but survived nicely last season when the Chiefs asked him to play more man-to-man coverage.

Edwards and Smith are the only true nose tackles on the Chiefs’ roster.

Offensive players without 2011 contracts include Wiegmann and quarterback Brodie Croyle. Wiegmann won the starting job from the incumbent, Rudy Niswanger, during training camp and never gave it back. Wiegmann was a key factor as the Chiefs led the league in rushing during the regular season.

Croyle is 0-10 in his career as the Chiefs’ starting quarterback. The Chiefs lost 31-0 at San Diego last month when Croyle replaced the ailing Matt Cassel as the starter.

The Chiefs have no other serious backup quarterback candidates on their roster, so they will have to acquire one if Croyle is not re-signed.

Because the league’s collective-bargaining agreement is set to expire in March, it’s unclear which of the Chiefs’ unsigned players would be unrestricted, restricted or exclusive rights free agents or whether there will be free agency at all.

The Chiefs had 61 players on their roster at season’s end, including eight on injured reserve. Linebacker Mark Simoneau was one of them and has announced his retirement.

The Chiefs signed on Wednesday the eight players who finished the season on their practice squad: linebackers Justin Cole, Micah Johnson and Pierre Walters, defensive lineman Dion Gales, offensive linemen Darryl Harris and Bobby Greenwood, wide receiver Jeremy Horne and tight end Cody Slate.

To reach Adam Teicher, call 816-234-4875 or send e-mail to ateicher@kcstar.com
Posted on Wed, Jan. 12, 2011 11:05 PM

booger
01-13-2011, 12:40 AM
unrestricted
QB Croyle
OLB Hali
NT Edwards
CB Daniels
OLB Vrabel
C Weigmann
OLB Charlie Anderson
WR Copper
ILB Mays
RT O'Callohan
C Niswanger
S McGraw
NT Smith
WR Urban
ILB Simineau
WR Curtis

Restriced or Exclusive Rights
OT Richardson
DE Gilberry
CB Flowers EDIT: is under contract for 2011. Not a FA
CB Carr
FB Castille
FB Cox
RB Battle
TE Cottam
CB Leggett

That's a guess and comes to 25. Maybe TE Pope is an UFA too i don't know.

Have to wait for Looney at kcchiefs.com to come out with an official list.

Charles, DJ, Studebaker all got extensions but so did LS Thomas Gafford and his didn't get much press. Could be others not announced but hard to tell.

This is all a guessing game as to who does or doesn't fall under restricted and the frachise and transistion tags because of the CBA.

ClevelandBronco
01-13-2011, 12:46 AM
...Outside linebacker Mike Vrabel is 35 and has no contract for 2010. The Chiefs have been grooming Andy Studebaker to take Vrabel’s starting spot eventually. Vrabel lost some of his playing time last season to Studebaker, but the Chiefs would face a leadership void without Vrabel.

I don't buy this one. Young leaders emerge naturally as older leaders step aside. The next leader is probably already in the locker room, but he's hanging back giving Vrabel space and respect. IMO, there's no reason to keep Vrabel for leadership alone and there's pretty good evidence that leadership alone is all he has left.

booger
01-13-2011, 12:51 AM
I don't buy this one. Young leaders emerge naturally as older leaders step aside. The next leader is probably already in the locker room, but he's hanging back giving Vrabel space and respect. IMO, there's no reason to keep Vrabel for leadership alone and there's pretty good evidence that leadership alone is all he has left.

I agree. He's done. Time for him to go into coaching.

Guys like Studebaker have show leadership on special teams and he did get plenty of snaps on D. He may start next year but i would expect him to come out on passing downs. Studebaker hasn't shown enough to justify anything other than being the first OLB off the bench IMO.

Back to the leadership point though it's the same with McGraw and to an extent Weigmann. The team won 10 games and the youngsters gained plenty of experience in a winning season and one playoff game that they lost. Some of these vets have served their purpose. Bringing in others like Lilja and Jones would make plenty of sense again next year IMO.

The Bad Guy
01-13-2011, 04:49 AM
Flowers still has another year on his deal. 2nd round picks don't become restricted.

DenverChief
01-13-2011, 05:27 AM
Croyle is 0-10 in his career as the Chiefs’ starting quarterback. The Chiefs lost 31-0 at San Diego last month when Croyle replaced the ailing Matt Cassel as the starter.

The Chiefs have no other serious backup quarterback candidates on their roster, so they will have to acquire one if Croyle is not re-signed.



WTF?

Was Croyle a serious backup?

booger
01-13-2011, 06:00 AM
Flowers still has another year on his deal. 2nd round picks don't become restricted.

that's right, 2nd's usually sign at least 4 year deals.

booger
01-13-2011, 06:06 AM
Self-Scouting: 2011

By Josh Looney

Posted 1 hour ago
The Chiefs are undergoing a complete roster evaluation to prepare for 2011 approach

Changes are on the way in Kansas City – both inside the locker room and amongst the coaching staff.

It goes back to the old saying, “the only constant in the NFL is change.”

A worst to first division championship run and the biggest one-year turnaround in team history isn’t going to change that fact. The Chiefs have begun the process of evaluating their roster from top-to-bottom, self-identifying areas of strength and pockets of weakness.

“There is a lot of work to be done and it’s very critical that we get it right and as I’ve said multiple times, you can’t fill all the holes, you’ve got to continue to do the things that were done up to this point to bring in competition at as many spots as possible because competition is the key in my opinion,” Coach Todd Haley said. “Good competition is the key to players pushing themselves to the maximum and developing our team and we’ve just got to keep doing that and we’ll keep getting better.”

Player evaluations started on Monday afternoon and will continue through the next several weeks, alongside staff scouting visits to the East/West Shrine Game and Senior Bowl. The outcome of those assessments will help sculpt the base of the 2011 Chiefs.

More than 20 players are set to become free agents of some type, depending on the structure of ongoing collective bargaining agreement (CBA) talks. In previous years, this list would include unrestricted, restricted and exclusive rights free agency titles. Until a labor deal is in place, qualifications for free agency tags carry plenty of unknowns.

For now, those slated for some form of market-testing include a number of starters and/or regular contributors.

During his end of season press conference, Haley specifically mentioned five such players whose in-season progress particularly stood out. Those names included CB Brandon Carr, DT Ron Edwards, LB Tamba Hali, T Barry Richardson and C Casey Wiegmann.

Hali, the AFC’s sack leader (14.5 sacks), is the name that most Chiefs fans are focusing on as free agency is scheduled to approach at the beginning of March.

“There are just so many,” Haley said of players he saw develop across the Chiefs roster. “The coaches did such a great job of turning some unknowns to knowns and I am not talking about from a marquee names standpoint, I am just talking about a roster standpoint.

“When you go into the draft and into the off-season you want to say we would like to take care of this, this and this but you just can’t do it. That is why the development of players becomes so paramount to your success as a team. I could go down the line, (but) I don’t want to offend anybody.”

At least 18 other players slated to become free agents of some type. Those include LB Charlie Anderson, RB Jackie Battle, FB Tim Castille, WR Terrance Copper, FB Mike Cox, QB Brodie Croyle, CB Travis Daniels, LB Cory Greenwood, DE Wallace Gilberry, S Reshard Langford, CB Maurice Leggett, LB Corey Mays, S Jon McGraw, C Rudy Niswanger, T Ryan O’Callaghan, TE Leonard Pope, DL Shaun Smith and LB Mike Vrabel.

The Chiefs reached in-season extensions with RB Jamaal Charles, LB Derrick Johnson, LS Thomas Gafford, and LB Andy Studebaker.

“We don’t’ know what kind of team we are going to have next year, or what players we will have back,” WR Dwayne Bowe said earlier this week.

That’s partially true, but while the number of potential free agents may be up from a season ago, the amount of “knowns” on Kansas City’s roster has increased as well.

A four-win 2009 campaign was largely about identifying core players and moving forward with those “right 53” into the offseason. This past year was about further developing and adding on to that base of talent.

The apparent speed of that development is what surprised most.

“I am really proud of what they accomplished because I don’t think a lot of people outside of our building or our fan base (believed),” Haley said. “We had some believers outside of here, but I don’t think that was the general belief of what was going to happen last year and for that I am really proud that our guys did the things that they were supposed to do and because of that we were able to win double-digit wins which is a big thing. It is a good thing that allowed us to get into our first postseason together as a core group.

So now the Chiefs venture in to Todd Haley’s third offseason. Core players having been identified and most every candidate for free agency having spent at least one season in Kansas City.

From top-to-bottom, there is now familiarity with the Chiefs roster from both a coaching and playing perspective. Improving overall team speed was a priority last season, as well as heightening the play of the interior offensive line. Those needs were addressed in both the draft and free agency.

Roster needs for 2011 are being prioritized during this time of self-scouting.

“I think if there is a year three approach it will come after this evaluation,” Haley said. “That is what is so important right now is making sure that we are very thorough, that you see things for what they are and you don’t fool yourself and think you are better than you are or not understand that we went through the year from an injury standpoint and kept everybody (healthy).

Changes are coming. They always do in this league.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/Self-Scouting-2011/cd6f3d37-6c00-45cd-a7ca-77aae0c3413c

SNR
01-13-2011, 06:48 AM
I don't buy this one. Young leaders emerge naturally as older leaders step aside. The next leader is probably already in the locker room, but he's hanging back giving Vrabel space and respect. IMO, there's no reason to keep Vrabel for leadership alone and there's pretty good evidence that leadership alone is all he has left.We'll just have to sign away Richard Seymour from Oaktown for chump change I guess

Chiefnj2
01-13-2011, 07:18 AM
I don't think there will be a normal free agency deal in place this year. I doubt there is a completed CBA by March. It's going to be a very messed up year for personnel decisions.

scott free
01-13-2011, 07:30 AM
I definitely want Smith back, he's got the angry, smack slingin attitude this D has been been missing for a long time. I'd also like to keep Edwards around as a backup, he played reasonably well this year & knows the system.

Otter
01-13-2011, 07:32 AM
It's scary how much this team is depending on Cassle. Not a very good year at all for QBs either, not even a development QB as far as the draft is concerned.

Art Vader
01-13-2011, 07:43 AM
I don't think there will be a normal free agency deal in place this year. I doubt there is a completed CBA by March. It's going to be a very messed up year for personnel decisions.

http://i52.tinypic.com/4ln8mw.jpg

talastan
01-13-2011, 08:48 AM
With all the crap that has been left up in the air waiting on the new CBA; this offseason IMO will give us a good glimpse into what type of FO we have. If Pioli is truly working magic and giving us a solid rebuild than he had to have planned ahead for this offseason in particular and should still be able to put together a solid FA and draft. I'm actually excited. I think a lot of teams this offseason will either have incredible gains or losses personnel-wise based off of the instability we are seeing right now with no CBA in place. No better time to have an NFL Executive of the Year overseeing this offseason IMO rather than Carl Whats-his-name.

Jethopper
01-13-2011, 09:03 AM
keep tamba, cut the rest loose.

CoMoChief
01-13-2011, 09:04 AM
I agree. He's done. Time for him to go into coaching.

Guys like Studebaker have show leadership on special teams and he did get plenty of snaps on D. He may start next year but i would expect him to come out on passing downs. Studebaker hasn't shown enough to justify anything other than being the first OLB off the bench IMO.

Back to the leadership point though it's the same with McGraw and to an extent Weigmann. The team won 10 games and the youngsters gained plenty of experience in a winning season and one playoff game that they lost. Some of these vets have served their purpose. Bringing in others like Lilja and Jones would make plenty of sense again next year IMO.

What makes people think he will go into coaching? For some reason there is a large amount of people on this site that think old veteran Chiefs players immediately want to get onto the Chief's coaching staff after their playing careers are over. And it's not just Vrabel. Count this with the group of people that want Trent Green to be out QB coach.

I haven't heard Vrabel state that he wants to coach. Hey let's hire Priest Holmes to be our RB coach after Haley promotes Carthon to OC!!!!!

Brock
01-13-2011, 09:05 AM
I don't see any tough decisions. It's obvious who to keep and who to replace.

Chris Meck
01-13-2011, 09:44 AM
You can't just let half of your team walk. Then you'd literally have to have 22 guys off the street.

I'd think Gilberry would like a chance to start somewhere as a 4-3 RDE, and he's probably got a good shot at it. So he won't likely be back.

Wiegmann needs replacing badly. But right now, we've got nothing at C. Bring him back, but get a young FA or draft a good one for Casey to help coach up.

Smith and Edwards should be brought back, but a true, NFL ready NT must be brought in. Edwards is too small, and Smith is a 'tweener in a 3-4.

Keep Carr, he made big strides.

Just off the top of my head.

Rain Man
01-13-2011, 09:48 AM
WTF?

Was Croyle a serious backup?


He must be. I know that I never smiled when he was in the game.

Rain Man
01-13-2011, 09:49 AM
I don't understand the questions that arise related to a player's age. With Wiegman and Vrabel, you say "Do we have someone better on the roster?" If yes, then they get demoted or let go. If no, you keep them because they're the best player available. Age shouldn't be a factor.

booger
01-13-2011, 10:04 AM
What makes people think he will go into coaching? For some reason there is a large amount of people on this site that think old veteran Chiefs players immediately want to get onto the Chief's coaching staff after their playing careers are over. And it's not just Vrabel. Count this with the group of people that want Trent Green to be out QB coach.

I haven't heard Vrabel state that he wants to coach. Hey let's hire Priest Holmes to be our RB coach after Haley promotes Carthon to OC!!!!!

He coaches his kid's pee wee( or whatever) team. He's talked about that when player safety and concussions came up he said when he's coaching he tells his players if they hit their head and don't feel right to sit out. During the bye week this year Haley let the vets Coach the younger players and gave the vets the week off from the physical part of things. There was talk about Vrabel someday going into coaching but he told haley he learned he'd never work for Todd and they all laughed and that's how i remember that. He also fits the mold to a T of players who do end up coaching. The overachievers and guys who are called coaches on the field and extremely smart and understand the game. I don't know what his plans are i was just basing that off of those things i read.

Don't lump me in with any dipsticks who think everytime a pro bowler retires i think he would be a good coach.

Sweet Daddy Hate
01-13-2011, 10:12 AM
“Good competition is the key to players pushing themselves to the maximum and developing our team and we’ve just got to keep doing that and we’ll keep getting better.”



Your "competition" is glaringly absent at the most important position on the roster, sweet pea. Get crackin'.

booger
01-13-2011, 10:15 AM
I don't understand the questions that arise related to a player's age. With Wiegman and Vrabel, you say "Do we have someone better on the roster?" If yes, then they get demoted or let go. If no, you keep them because they're the best player available. Age shouldn't be a factor.

I agree but my main issue with Vrabel is i think he's declined too far. For leadership purposes maybe he could contribute as a backup OLB/Situational guy plus add depth at TE in short Yardage and Goaline. A role player like that better play special teams and i don't see Vrabel covering kicks. So in the age of the 45 man game day roster and the overall 53 he isn't going to fit many places.

Weigmann had a good year, stayed healthy, and drew plenty of praise from Haley's end of the season presser. What was my main concern before the season started and now that it has ended is how the OL would play with him at 285(probably lighter) and lilja at 290 playing side by side. I don't think this OL, and Cassel can go through another year of that. I wouldn't be suprised to see Weigmann keep playing, just a matter if it's here or not.

McGraw has lost some foot speed too(not his best skill to begin with) and usually misses 2-4 games a year in his KC career. His range isn't good enough for FS and I don't think he could hold up at SS. As a 3rd Safety and Nickel package guy maybe he has another year. But again it comes back to special teams and he was a good one in the past but i didn't notice him this year. If not a starter or playing high number of snaps as a backup these guys don't fit.

As far as declining skills you can throw Chambers in that catagory too, imo.

Chiefnj2
01-13-2011, 10:16 AM
Must Keep: Hali.

Should keep: Carr and Gilberry.

One or the other until you draft and develop someone: Weigman/Niswanger (preferably Weigman), and Edwards/Smith (preferably Smith).

booger
01-13-2011, 10:17 AM
WTF?

Was Croyle a serious backup?

No kidding. He's as good as gone IMO. Palko would be a better #2 instead of Croyle. It just hasn't come together for him and don't know if it will.

buddha
01-13-2011, 10:19 AM
Croyle should be cut loose. Palkow showed more in limited time, and it's time to look elsewhere for the QBoftheF. Smith and Edwards are keepers. They may not be great, but they are at least average...maybe a bit better than that. It's hard to find good interior DL. You don't give up on two young ones who played pretty well. Hali should be brought back if the price is right, but I wouldn't over pay. Vrable was WAY too slow this season to play his position. Leadership or not, he needs to hang 'em up. Carr is a keeper.

The Chiefs need LBers in the worst way. Our LBer prospect for the future is Andy Freaking Studdebaker? Really? That's sad.

WR and LB should be the Chiefs priority during the off season.

Sweet Daddy Hate
01-13-2011, 10:20 AM
No kidding. He's as good as gone IMO. Palko would be a better #2 instead of Croyle. It just hasn't come together for him and don't know if it will.

Plankton is utter garbage. He's a "22-er" if ever there was one.

boogblaster
01-13-2011, 10:31 AM
We need a serious QB back-up ... plus a new young QB too learn our system .......

Pestilence
01-13-2011, 10:46 AM
Keep the following:

unrestricted
OLB Hali
C Weigmann
WR Copper
NT Smith

Restriced or Exclusive Rights
OT Richardson
DE Gilberry
CB Carr
FB Cox
RB Battle

RINGLEADER
01-13-2011, 10:48 AM
keep tamba, cut the rest loose.

From the unrestricted list, pretty much...

RINGLEADER
01-13-2011, 10:49 AM
Must Keep: Hali.

Should keep: Carr and Gilberry.

One or the other until you draft and develop someone: Weigman/Niswanger (preferably Weigman), and Edwards/Smith (preferably Smith).

Yeah, I could go with this one...

Chiefnj2
01-13-2011, 11:03 AM
From the unrestricted list, pretty much...

Smith is a really good role player. He cares about playing and winning.

scott free
01-13-2011, 11:08 AM
Smith is a really good role player. He cares about playing and winning.

Agreed, i love his vocal passion & he's been something of a pleasant surprise to me at DE, he's a big reason why our run D improved to where it did IMO, he holds his ground at the POA & sheds blocks well.

Every team needs a good Hype Man.

Chiefnj2
01-13-2011, 11:18 AM
Agreed, i love his vocal passion & he's been something of a pleasant surprise to me at DE, he's a big reason why our run D improved to where it did IMO, he holds his ground at the POA & sheds blocks well.

Every team needs a good Hype Man.

I think Gilberry is a similar player. 7 sacks from a role playing DE in a 34 is pretty good productivity, especially without a stud NT.

scott free
01-13-2011, 11:21 AM
I think Gilberry is a similar player. 7 sacks from a role playing DE in a 34 is pretty good productivity, especially without a stud NT.

Absolutely, that many sacks off the bench says a lot about his effort. His size is oddball for a 3-4 end, but he makes it work somehow.

Halfcan
01-13-2011, 11:23 AM
How could they let Hali become a F A?

Some team will offer him a big contract.

suzzer99
01-13-2011, 11:25 AM
If this team lets Hali go I will lose a lot of faith in Pioli. I'd be shocked if that happened.

Halfcan
01-13-2011, 11:30 AM
If this team lets Hali go I will lose a lot of faith in Pioli. I'd be shocked if that happened.

Like when they gave away Jared Allen and Tony G??

The Bad Guy
01-13-2011, 12:26 PM
Like when they gave away Jared Allen and Tony G??

Gave away Allen?

Hardly.

I'd make that deal again.

Brock
01-13-2011, 12:27 PM
Like when they gave away Jared Allen and Tony G??

LMAO

Dave Lane
01-13-2011, 12:33 PM
Must Keep: Hali.

Should keep: Carr and Gilberry.

One or the other until you draft and develop someone: Weigman/Niswanger (preferably Weigman), and Edwards/Smith (preferably Smith).

This is pretty much my list. Others if they sign reasonable deals. If we have a season hopefully some of the other signees get knocked out by new pickups / draft choices.

milkman
01-13-2011, 08:54 PM
keep tamba, cut the rest loose.

:facepalm:

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-13-2011, 09:04 PM
unrestricted
QB Croyle
OLB Hali
NT Edwards
CB Daniels
OLB Vrabel
C Weigmann
OLB Charlie Anderson
WR Copper
ILB Mays
RT O'Callohan
C Niswanger
S McGraw
NT Smith
WR Urban
ILB Simineau
WR Curtis

Restriced or Exclusive Rights
OT Richardson
DE Gilberry
CB Carr
FB Castille
FB Cox
RB Battle
TE Cottam
CB Leggett

That's a guess and comes to 25. Maybe TE Pope is an UFA too i don't know.

Have to wait for Looney at kcchiefs.com to come out with an official list.

Charles, DJ, Studebaker all got extensions but so did LS Thomas Gafford and his didn't get much press. Could be others not announced but hard to tell.

This is all a guessing game as to who does or doesn't fall under restricted and the frachise and transistion tags because of the CBA.

I'd give Leggett and Cottam a shot at a roster spot because they've shown flashes of ability in between their injuries. They are significantly better than any of our backups at those positions.

Shitcan Vrabel, Anderson, Copper, Wiegmann, Mays, O'Callaghan, Niswanger, Urban, Simoneau, Curtis, Castille and Cox

BossChief
01-13-2011, 09:11 PM
OLB Hali
NT Smith
DE Gilberry
CB Carr

These guys should be absolute priorities going forward. After that, lock up Flowers long term.

Everyone else on that list should be considered no more than quality depth.

Sweet Daddy Hate
01-13-2011, 09:15 PM
OLB Hali
NT Smith
DE Gilberry
CB Carr

These guys should be absolute priorities going forward. After that, lock up Flowers long term.

Everyone else on that list should be considered no more than quality depth.

Those are the four I picked. Everyone else got shit-canned.

TEX
01-13-2011, 09:24 PM
How could they let Hali become a F A?

Some team will offer him a big contract.

And the Chiefs should match it. They have the $$$. Hali does NOT strike me as the type of player whose production will fall after he signs a big contract.

BossChief
01-13-2011, 09:37 PM
Id also like to add that Id like to see them move Lilja to LG and hand Asamoah the keys to the RG spot while drafting a potentially stud center...this would surely give us a solid power run game as well as a good dose of mobility on outside runs.

Im also sticking to my guns on Studebaker as a guy that I think can be a big contributor on defense.

....and yeah, can we please see Shaun Smith as the NT?