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View Full Version : Life Did you (or will you) sign a prenup?


Jenson71
01-13-2011, 12:49 PM
Hi, I'd like to take a poll about the use/desire of prenuptial agreements, because I'm learning about them now and I'd like to see if they are more common then I'm thinking (I'm thinking along the lines of 20% have prenups), and some thoughts about them.

The poll is PRIVATE so tell the truth and nothing but.

Jenson71
01-13-2011, 12:51 PM
My choice was: I am not married, but if I do, without prenup. Because of religious reasons, I don't think the Church will marry me with one.

Norman Einstein
01-13-2011, 12:53 PM
I had nothing to need to sign a prenuptial agreement, even if I had anything of value the whole idea of getting married is that it is forever, at least in my generation is was.

I do know of lives that were wrecked because the parents demanded a prenup. The young lady basically lost it and the guy is now an alcoholic. Momma died shortly after wrecking the relationship.

I guess a prenup is needed if you plan a disposable marriage.

Dicky McElephant
01-13-2011, 12:54 PM
No prenup. How else am I supposed to get 50% of her shit?

blaise
01-13-2011, 12:55 PM
My choice was: I am not married, but if I do, without prenup. Because of religious reasons, I don't think the Church will marry me with one.

You can get a post-nuptial agreement if you really want to get something like that.

Jenson71
01-13-2011, 12:56 PM
You can get a post-nuptial agreement if you really want to get something like that.

As in, the Church allows that? That's interesting, I didn't know that. I do know Iowa doesn't allow those, though.

Der Flöprer
01-13-2011, 12:56 PM
Married for 6 years, and like Norman, had nothing of real value to justify even considering it. Had I, I still wouldn't have done it. I waited until 27 to get married. I don't plan on ever doing it again. Of course, I did out kick my coverage. :D

Old Dog
01-13-2011, 12:57 PM
Married, without. It was quite rare (at least to my knowledge) for normal folks to have one when we got hitched.

Tomorrow will be 24 years.

Pawnmower
01-13-2011, 12:57 PM
Most young couples don't have much, so in most cases there is no need for a prenup. However, if one person has a business, or home / proprieties or some other kinds of assets and the other person doesn't...Then a pre-nup MAY be something to consider. They are more complicated than that, but essentially unless one person has a lot of assets and the other one doesn't then you probably do not need one.

El Jefe
01-13-2011, 12:58 PM
"If you ain't no chump, hollar we want prenup, we want prenup, Yeaaaah it's something that you need to have, cause when she leave your a$$ she gonna leave with half".

No way on earth would I get a prenup, till death do us part. I do find Kanye's song to be funny though.

Extra Point
01-13-2011, 12:59 PM
No prenup. How else am I supposed to get 50% of her shit?

THIS

InChiefsHell
01-13-2011, 12:59 PM
I'm married, we didn't have a pre-nup. Mostly because neither of us had jack shit when we entered the marriage. IMO, a prenup tells the other person that you really don't believe that the marriage will last. If you REALLY believed in the marriage, and you really trusted the other person, you would not even think of a pre-nup. It's a risk you take, getting married.

And yeah, Jenson, I'm pretty sure the Church would not allow that. Rightly so. Now, if they would just quit handing out annulments willey-nilley...

Norman Einstein
01-13-2011, 12:59 PM
Most young couples don't have much, so in most cases there is no need for a prenup. However, if one person has a business, or home / proprtties or some other kinds of assets and the other person doesn't...Then a pre-nup MAY be something to consider. They are more complicated than that, but essentially unless one person has a lot of assets and the other one doesn't then you probably do not need one.

I would think that someone of means that is getting married to a gold digger might need to be protected.

InChiefsHell
01-13-2011, 01:01 PM
I would think that someone of means that is getting married to a gold digger might need to be protected.

My response would be, don't marry a gold-digger. :shrug:

blaise
01-13-2011, 01:01 PM
As in, the Church allows that? That's interesting, I didn't know that. I do know Iowa doesn't allow those, though.

No, not the church the church allowing it. I'm saying you could be married by the church, tell them you have no pre-nup, and then get a post-nuptial aq year later. Although, I suppose that would be a bit dishonest in the eyes of the Lord.

Pawnmower
01-13-2011, 01:06 PM
I would think that someone of means that is getting married to a gold digger might need to be protected.

Well also I will give you another example.

Lets take someone who already has an established business....that business has a million dollars worth of assets....(Not too difficult or rare of a circumstance)...Also that person owns their own home. They fall in love, and want to get married.

You have some protections without a prenuptual agreement. I am not an expert on contract law but you definitely would (in case of divorce) in many states have some protections to the things you BROUGHT into the marriage.

In some cases all a 'pre-nup' is , is a document that clarifies which assets were brought into the marriage so that in the event of a divorce, there is no question afterwards...

(For example, having one person claim they helped build the business up and are now entitled to X % of it etc....)

Really they aren't a bad thing, if needed....They pretty much just agree about community property and make clear what assets and properties belong to whom - AHEAD of time.

If you actually have assets before you fall in love...it is something to consider. Everyone wants their love to last forever but the statistics do not bear that out.

angelo
01-13-2011, 01:08 PM
I actually encouraged my wife to get a prenuptial. I know I am selfish and would try to make sure she got nothing in a divorce. I have mellowed over time and have a post nuptial in place that divides all monetary assets equally. We do not have children so it is much easier. It also states that we would get joint custody of the dogs.

There is nothing wrong with preparing for any out come. Remember the 5 P's (prior planning prohibits poor performance)

Ang

Iowanian
01-13-2011, 01:13 PM
Instead of wasting time on a prenup that a good lawyer will tear up anyway, we skipped that and went right to the last will and testament and living will.

Rain Man
01-13-2011, 01:17 PM
When I got married, pretty much the only thing I owned was a Fiero and a root beer mug with Snoopy on the side.

InChiefsHell
01-13-2011, 01:19 PM
When I got married, pretty much the only thing I owned was a Fiero and a root beer mug with Snoopy on the side.

The mug was more valuable than the Fiero...I had the whole set!!

Trench
01-13-2011, 01:22 PM
Married 13 years, no prenup. Now I'm getting divorced and it's only through my soon-to-be-ex wife's good graces that I'm not up a creek. And that's just the money. I have two-year-old daughter who is my world, and, again, it's only the fact that my wife isn't a scum-sucking whorebag that I don't have to fight for 50% custody.

It's very difficult to predict who will turn evil in a divorce. Maybe no one, but it could be the wonderful woman you married; it could be you. Protect yourself and your interests. It's very likely that if I ever choose to get married again, I will have a prenup. And if the next Mrs. Trench isn't OK with that, we won't get married.

Brock
01-13-2011, 01:23 PM
If you think you need a prenup, you're a fool to get married in the first place.

Jenson71
01-13-2011, 01:25 PM
Out of 19 married votes so far, only 1 got married with prenup. That's about 5%. Not much.

bevischief
01-13-2011, 01:25 PM
Most young couples don't have much, so in most cases there is no need for a prenup. However, if one person has a business, or home / proprieties or some other kinds of assets and the other person doesn't...Then a pre-nup MAY be something to consider. They are more complicated than that, but essentially unless one person has a lot of assets and the other one doesn't then you probably do not need one.

This.

Trench
01-13-2011, 01:30 PM
If you think you need a prenup, you're a fool to get married in the first place.

If you think you need insurance, you're a fool to get in a car.

Short Leash Hootie
01-13-2011, 01:32 PM
If you think you need insurance, you're a fool to get in a car.

Eh...that's a good one.

Brock
01-13-2011, 01:33 PM
If you think you need insurance, you're a fool to get in a car.

If I have access to all the benefits of a car without buying it, then I don't need car insurance.

Dicky McElephant
01-13-2011, 01:34 PM
Eh...that's a good one.

Damnt man. I saw that you had posted in this thread and I got all excited to see what you were going to say. And then I saw this boring shit...

http://www.gymidiots.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/son-i-am-disappoint.gif

mlyonsd
01-13-2011, 01:37 PM
I've been married so long the word prenup hadn't been invented yet.

Trench
01-13-2011, 01:50 PM
If I have access to all the benefits of a car without buying it, then I don't need car insurance.

This is more of an argument against marriage in general, I think, which, under the circumstances, is an argument I have some sympathy for. But that wasn't the thread topic... If you must get married, protect yourself. That's all I'm saying. Might be better, though, to avoid the institution altogether.

Damn, with all this posting, I'm messing up my .001 (or whatever) posts per day. :D

Fire Me Boy!
01-13-2011, 03:08 PM
This is more of an argument against marriage in general, I think, which, under the circumstances, is an argument I have some sympathy for. But that wasn't the thread topic... If you must get married, protect yourself. That's all I'm saying. Might be better, though, to avoid the institution altogether.

Damn, with all this posting, I'm messing up my .001 (or whatever) posts per day. :D

You're up to .01 now. 10x where you were but a few short hours ago.

I now feel comfortable that I can basically say whatever I want and you won't pop back up again for air until February.

seclark
01-13-2011, 03:13 PM
nope
sec

Lzen
01-13-2011, 03:36 PM
If you think you need a prenup, you're a fool to get married in the first place.

Bingo!

luv
01-13-2011, 03:43 PM
If you think you need insurance, you're a fool to get in a car.

Invalid argument. State requires you to have insurance.

beach tribe
01-13-2011, 03:45 PM
Dane's wife has a prenup.

luv
01-13-2011, 03:46 PM
We had this discussion in one of my civil contract classes. People who were for it weren't considering any lack of love or trust in the relationship. They viewed it merely as a way to protect their assets, should something happen. Those of us who didn't think we should either had nothing to lose or viewed it as a lack of trust.

Pawnmower
01-13-2011, 03:47 PM
If you think you need a prenup, you're a fool to get married in the first place.

This is complete garbage. Marriage is a contract...Nothing more. You never know how someone will act if/when a marriage ends. The people who say 'youre a fool' to get a prenup are the fools who ignore the simple fact that 50% of marriages end in divorce (maybe more?). We all think it will last forever....

Getting the mess sorted out ahead of time, preparing for the worst...is always a good idea. If you have no assets, then you have nothing to worry about. But if you own a business (or several), properties, other assets, then you may need to look into protecting them in the event of a divorce.

The bottom line is most people do not NEED a prenup. But in the cases where one person has a great deal more property, assets etc....it may be a good idea (depending on the state where you live) to at least look into a prenup.

All you have to do is talk to a few people who have had messy divorces....

No, the 'fools' are those who go into any contract completely uneducated and unprepared.

Lzen
01-13-2011, 03:53 PM
This is complete garbage. Marriage is a contract...Nothing more. You never know how someone will act if/when a marriage ends. The people who say 'youre a fool' to get a prenup are the fools who ignore the simple fact that 50% of marriages end in divorce (maybe more?). We all think it will last forever....

Getting the mess sorted out ahead of time, preparing for the worst...is always a good idea. If you have no assets, then you have nothing to worry about. But if you own a business (or several), properties, other assets, then you may need to look into protecting them in the event of a divorce.

The bottom line is most people do not NEED a prenup. But in the cases where one person has a great deal more property, assets etc....it may be a good idea (depending on the state where you live) to at least look into a prenup.

All you have to do is talk to a few people who have had messy divorces....

No, the 'fools' are those who go into any contract completely uneducated and unprepared.

Your problem is that you view marriage as a contract. And I imagine that the people in the 50% statistic are the same way. Either that or they don't care enough to work to keep it going. I mean technically, yeah it is. But it is so much more than that. Brock is right. If you go in with the mindset that you need to protect yourself, your marriage is based on the wrong things and probably won't last.

Trench
01-13-2011, 03:53 PM
Invalid argument. State requires you to have insurance.

Invalid response. It's an analogy, not an straight argument. :p

luv
01-13-2011, 03:55 PM
Invalid response. It's an analogy, not an straight argument. :p

It's an analogy, but not a very good one. Now, if insurance was not legally required.....

Pawnmower
01-13-2011, 03:57 PM
Your problem is that you view marriage as a contract. And I imagine that the people in the 50% statistic are the same way. Either that or they don't care enough to work to keep it going. I mean technically, yeah it is. But it is so much more than that. Brock is right. If you go in with the mindset that you need to protect yourself, your marriage is based on the wrong things and probably won't last.

Well Ive been married years, and I love my wife as much as anyone else....

I think you are imagining things....

I'm not sure you actually read what I wrote, because I have said that in the majority of cases, a prenuptial is not needed...It is only needed in special cases.

The vast majority of people who get married probably do not need a prenuptial, just to be clear.

CrazyPhuD
01-13-2011, 03:58 PM
So let me take an extraordinary point of view that I'm willing to bet that 90% of you will disagree with at the top of your lungs...but that's ok.

Marriage is a legal contract it has no other meaning beyond that. Now before any of you scream about that let me just say this. If getting married changes anything about your relationship it's doomed. All getting married is is telling the rest of the world something that you and your spouse already know in your heart. It shouldn't change ANYTHING, it's just there to tell everyone else. You see the title of being married isn't what keeps you together, it isn't what keeps you from cheating and it isn't why you grown old together. It's the love that you two share that does all of that. If the love is not in your heart then it doesn't matter if you are married or not your relationship won't last.

All being married does is entitle you to certain legal rights and benefits(and certain legal responsibilities too). Hence comes the need for a prenup(in certain cases). As what people here have said it's like insurance. It's also like a will. How many people have prepared a will? Why do you do it? You hope to god that it will never be used, but it's there as insurance so that if you were to die early everything would be taken care of and people wouldn't be fighting over assets. A prenup is like a will for a relationship. No messy divorce, no someone saying I'm going to try to fuck you over and hurt you as much as I can because I'm angry or bitter. You prepare for the end in an ideally calm and equitable manner. prenup shouldn't screw over someone, but neither should it let someone win the lottery just because they were married to someone for a few months. My belief is that every prenup should have a sunset, if you're together long enough it disappears.

As much as we'd like to say this marriage is forever and it will only end by death the reality of the matter is 50% of marriages still fail. If you don't have substantial assets then frankly it doesn't matter. You have very little to risk and not really much to insure. If you do have substantial assets then how much are you willing to risk that your heart is right? Love can be incredibly blind and we fuck up all the time because of it.

To me a prenup is actually about saying we're getting married for love and not for money. If a girl wouldn't sign a prenup I see that as a sign she thinks of me as a lottery ticket. A prenup takes the money out of the equation. If what you're getting out of the relationship isn't money then what's left? Don't get me wrong people abuse prenups and alot of people don't appreciate the value of a great relationship and support system on business success. There are many times in life when things seem so bad that you want to quit and part of the reason you don't is because of that support. But a properly written prenup will take alot of the money issues out of the equation and simply ask are you marrying me for me or are you marrying me for my money?

Alot of you may not agree with this and I understand, I'm an idealist too, but the simple reason that I am where I am today is because I temper my idealism with realism and I mitigate risk. My heart is my house of reps and my brain is my senate. Nothing major is decided unless both say yes.

But I've said my piece here. Honestly I'm not sure I'll come back to this thread because it's just too much of a hot button topic and I don't know what more I can add than this. As everything in life, hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

luv
01-13-2011, 04:00 PM
Your problem is that you view marriage as a contract. And I imagine that the people in the 50% statistic are the same way. Either that or they don't care enough to work to keep it going. I mean technically, yeah it is. But it is so much more than that. Brock is right. If you go in with the mindset that you need to protect yourself, your marriage is based on the wrong things and probably won't last.

I'm in your boat, but....

You're not protecting yourself. You're protecting your assets. And having a prenup doesn't mean you won't put the work into your marriage. It just covers the what-ifs, such as what if she leaves you? Even going into the marriage, there is that risk. You enter into that contract anyway. If you part ways, you're still fine, but all of your assets could be in shambles.

CrazyPhuD
01-13-2011, 04:01 PM
OK now I've caught up a little....and all I have to say is this....fuck....I can't believe I agree with pawnmower on something...shit the world is going to end now...I better prepare...ROFL...ok I'm out....

Pawnmower
01-13-2011, 04:02 PM
Marriage is a legal contract it has no other meaning beyond that. If getting married changes anything about your relationship it's doomed.

How many people have prepared a will? Why do you do it? You hope to god that it will never be used, but it's there as insurance so that if you were to die early everything would be taken care of and people wouldn't be fighting over assets. A prenup is like a will for a relationship. No messy divorce, no someone saying I'm going to try to **** you over and hurt you as much as I can because I'm angry or bitter. You prepare for the end in an ideally calm and equitable manner.

As much as we'd like to say this marriage is forever and it will only end by death the reality of the matter is 50% of marriages still fail. If you don't have substantial assets then frankly it doesn't matter.

To me a prenup is actually about saying we're getting married for love and not for money. If a girl wouldn't sign a prenup I see that as a sign she thinks of me as a lottery ticket.


I clipped a few things out to make it shorter, but I agree with nearly everything you said. Very well written IMO...Count me in the % that completely agree.

Pawnmower
01-13-2011, 04:06 PM
One other problem is I think people have a misconception about what a prenuptial is....There is no prenuptial that reads 'if we get divorced, X gets nothing and I get everything' , as that would be against a basic element of contract law (as I understand it). Any contract that is essentially not fair, can be void. Any good prenuptial agreement should be legally fair......or risk being voided.

Pawnmower
01-13-2011, 04:07 PM
OK now I've caught up a little....and all I have to say is this....****....I can't believe I agree with pawnmower on something...shit the world is going to end now...I better prepare...ROFL...ok I'm out....

2012 Motherfucker

GET READY:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

Trench
01-13-2011, 04:07 PM
Your problem is that you view marriage as a contract. And I imagine that the people in the 50% statistic are the same way. Either that or they don't care enough to work to keep it going. I mean technically, yeah it is. But it is so much more than that. Brock is right. If you go in with the mindset that you need to protect yourself, your marriage is based on the wrong things and probably won't last.

Nonsense. Just because someone feels the need to protect themselves doesn't mean they aren't invested in making the marriage work or that the marriage isn't based on love and trust. Prenups aren't the cause of the divorce rate, especially given that they're relatively rare, judging from the very unscientific poll we have here. Shit happens, in life and marriage, and sometimes it doesn't work out, even when you've done everything you can.

Interestingly, I've seen studies that divorcees are much more amenable to prenups than other people. Does that mean that those people don't value marriage enough to work on it, or that they've been through the sausage grinder legal system and realize that sometimes it might be less painful and traumatic to sort all that shit out beforehand?

Pawnmower
01-13-2011, 04:09 PM
Prenups aren't the cause of the divorce rate, especially given that they're relatively rare, judging from the very unscientific poll we have here.

Exactly. In fact I would be willing to bet that the % of divorce is lower or statistically not significantly different in marriages with a prenup.

Anyone claiming prenups CAUSE divorce better come strong with some numbers, pronto.

Detoxing
01-13-2011, 04:10 PM
2012 Mother****er

GET READY:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

Oh shit. I totally forgot that we have only one more year. SOB, i need to brush up on my Zombie killing skillz.

Brock
01-13-2011, 04:23 PM
I don't think prenups cause divorce, I think the attitude behind them makes ending a marriage a lot easier. "I need to protect my assets because I fear you may leave me one day or I may leave you". My answer to that: You shouldn't get married if that's how you feel. The marriage you have will be a very, very shallow one.

Norman Einstein
01-13-2011, 04:25 PM
I don't think prenups cause divorce, I think the attitude behind them makes ending a marriage a lot easier. "I need to protect my assets because I fear you may leave me one day or I may leave you". My answer to that: You shouldn't get married if that's how you feel. The marriage you have will be a very, very shallow one.

If you go in requiring a prenuptual agreement it seems like it's admitting up front that you don't think it's going to work. They don't cause divorces but they sure give you an easy out when you decide your secretary is better in bed than your wife, or her deciding her new man friend is better in the sck than you.

Fire Me Boy!
01-13-2011, 04:26 PM
Nonsense. Just because someone feels the need to protect themselves doesn't mean they aren't invested in making the marriage work or that the marriage isn't based on love and trust. Prenups aren't the cause of the divorce rate, especially given that they're relatively rare, judging from the very unscientific poll we have here. Shit happens, in life and marriage, and sometimes it doesn't work out, even when you've done everything you can.

Interestingly, I've seen studies that divorcees are much more amenable to prenups than other people. Does that mean that those people don't value marriage enough to work on it, or that they've been through the sausage grinder legal system and realize that sometimes it might be less painful and traumatic to sort all that shit out beforehand?

Way back when Chris Rock was funny - you know, WAY back - he said they shouldn't call insurance "insurance." They should call it "incaseshit". Because you need it "incaseshit happens."

Trench
01-13-2011, 04:29 PM
It's an analogy, but not a very good one. Now, if insurance was not legally required.....

Don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, luv (as if you wait for my response, breathless).

The legal requirement isn't relevant to the analogy's utility. What about insurance that isn't legally required? Medical insurance, for example. What about drivers in New Hampshire, where liability insurance isn't required? What about life insurance? We could easily change the subject of the analogy and not lose any of the point I was getting at.

Besides, it was kind of funny.

Molitoth
01-13-2011, 04:35 PM
I guess a prenup is needed if you plan a disposable marriage.

This.

Trench
01-13-2011, 04:35 PM
If you go in requiring a prenuptual agreement it seems like it's admitting up front that you don't think it's going to work. They don't cause divorces but they sure give you an easy out when you decide your secretary is better in bed than your wife, or her deciding her new man friend is better in the sck than you.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't know that many people who would view any exit from a long relationship like a marriage easy. And the people who do find it easy seem to me, at least, to be malfunctioning on such a deep level that nothing, prenup or not, will make a difference to them.

I can see where your coming from, but I think in many cases, if not most, the prenup would mostly serve to ease the pain and trauma that both parties to the divorce feel when they've genuinely tried to work things out, but it just couldn't happen. Sure, some folks will use the prenup to get out at the first sign of trouble, but I think they'd have probably filed for divorce at the same time without the prenup.

CrazyPhuD's post above is probably the most lucid explanation I've seen on this thread.

luv
01-13-2011, 04:38 PM
One other problem is I think people have a misconception about what a prenuptial is....There is no prenuptial that reads 'if we get divorced, X gets nothing and I get everything' , as that would be against a basic element of contract law (as I understand it). Any contract that is essentially not fair, can be void. Any good prenuptial agreement should be legally fair......or risk being voided.

Basically, they say something like "Whatever I brought into the marriage is mine when I leave." Anything acquired during the course of the marriage is, then, the only thing in question.

Extra Point
01-13-2011, 04:56 PM
Invalid argument. State requires you to have insurance.

His statement supports that argument! Wake up!!

Pawnmower
01-13-2011, 04:56 PM
Basically, they say something like "Whatever I brought into the marriage is mine when I leave." Anything acquired during the course of the marriage is, then, the only thing in question.

Generally there is no question. Usually anything brought into the marriage DURING the marriage(by the couple) is 'community property' which would be 50% to the wife and 50% to the husband.

Pawnmower
01-13-2011, 04:58 PM
I don't think prenups cause divorce, I think the attitude behind them makes ending a marriage a lot easier.

If this were true, then logically marriages with prenups would have a much higher divorce rate. Do they?

Extra Point
01-13-2011, 04:58 PM
Pestilence is smart as a tack, and I have to agree. See his previous post.

black angus
01-13-2011, 06:37 PM
If a person with children is going into a marraige the pre-nup can be in place to protect
the kids. If you should die before your spouse, most people would logically want their
children to receive their estate, instead of a surviving spouse that may or may not care
about your children. If you title your property with a joint tenancy deed, the surviving
spouse could possibly omit your children from their rightful inheritance.

I believe a 2nd marraige pre-nup is actually pretty common, especially if significant assets or children are involved. It just makes sense to me anyway.

ClevelandBronco
01-13-2011, 07:05 PM
If this were true, then logically marriages with prenups would have a much higher divorce rate.

That's not logical at all.

Pawnmower
01-13-2011, 08:14 PM
That's not logical at all.

Thats my point....it isn't true...

Demonpenz
01-13-2011, 08:27 PM
I was in a rush to get married because I couldn't possibly imagine myself in a wedding dress in my 30's ugh. So I had my day and it didn't work out, now I am ready to party again! Readytoparty80 aka every girl on eharmony.com

HonestChieffan
01-13-2011, 08:33 PM
IF you have assets...and if you have kids you like and plan to leave them anything...and you get married again...yes you do a prenup. Women can get nuts at anytime and if nuts enough for your net worth to be targeted, you need to cover you and your kids.

Brock
01-13-2011, 08:43 PM
If this were true, then logically marriages with prenups would have a much higher divorce rate. Do they?

Why do you keep asking me this? Can't you google this yourself?

Hydrae
01-13-2011, 08:47 PM
Married twice, no pre-nup. As many have said, nothing of value to worry about. If anything I should have had one just to be sure she would get stuck with half the bills if we split. :)

ClevelandBronco
01-13-2011, 08:48 PM
Thats my point....it isn't true...

You misunderstand. I'm saying that your logic is not logical at all.

Simply Red
01-13-2011, 09:05 PM
fuck gettin' mard, boo

DaneMcCloud
01-13-2011, 09:49 PM
Dane's wife has a prenup.

What the fuck?

DaneMcCloud
01-13-2011, 09:53 PM
Your problem is that you view marriage as a contract. And I imagine that the people in the 50% statistic are the same way. Either that or they don't care enough to work to keep it going. I mean technically, yeah it is. But it is so much more than that. Brock is right. If you go in with the mindset that you need to protect yourself, your marriage is based on the wrong things and probably won't last.

This is completely untrue.

You can't predict the future. Neither can your partner. If one of the partner's has millions in assets (or an inheritance coming), it's wise to protect them through a prenup.

If the marriage is strong, it ultimately won't matter.

-King-
01-13-2011, 10:06 PM
What the fuck?

LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

-King-
01-13-2011, 10:07 PM
This is completely untrue.

You can't predict the future. Neither can your partner. If one of the partner's has millions in assets (or an inheritance coming), it's wise to protect them through a prenup.

If the marriage is strong, it ultimately won't matter.

This. Rep.

Brock
01-13-2011, 10:14 PM
This is completely untrue.

You can't predict the future. Neither can your partner. If one of the partner's has millions in assets (or an inheritance coming), it's wise to protect them through a prenup.

If the marriage is strong, it ultimately won't matter.

So that covers the .001 percent of people that applies to.

DaneMcCloud
01-13-2011, 10:18 PM
So that covers the .001 percent of people that applies to.

I don't get it, then. Why would anyone sign a prenup if there weren't millions or more in assets owned by one party, but not the other?

Why would two people that earn $50k and have no assets to speak of need a prenup?

Brock
01-13-2011, 10:21 PM
I don't get it, then. Why would anyone sign a prenup if there weren't millions or more in assets owned by one party, but not the other?

Why would two people that earn $50k and have no assets to speak of each need a prenup?

Beats me. But even if I had millions of dollars in assets to protect, if I felt they needed to be protected from a woman I was planning to marry, she wouldn't be a woman I'd plan to marry.

Miles
01-13-2011, 10:22 PM
If there is a large disparity in assets or potential assets between spouses I really don't see the arguments against a prenup.

DaneMcCloud
01-13-2011, 10:25 PM
If there is a large disparity in assets or potential assets between spouses I really don't see the arguments against a prenup.

Neither do I.

DaneMcCloud
01-13-2011, 10:30 PM
Beats me. But even if I had millions of dollars in assets to protect, if I felt they needed to be protected from a woman I was planning to marry, she wouldn't be a woman I'd plan to marry.

What if it's the other way around?

Suppose you fall in love with a woman with a sizable inheritance and/or family assets and she asks you to sign a prenup. Would you refuse?

I know that for certain, I wouldn't.

Brock
01-13-2011, 10:37 PM
What if it's the other way around?

Suppose you fall in love with a woman with a sizable inheritance and/or family assets and she asks you to sign a prenup. Would you refuse?

I know that for certain, I wouldn't.

We wouldn't be getting married. Not because I want a claim to her money, but because she has raised the question in her own heart and mind as to whether that is the case. We would not truly be intimate companions because of that. It's a waste of time.

stevieray
01-13-2011, 10:39 PM
We wouldn't be getting married. Not because I want a claim to her money, but because she has raised the question in her own heart and mind as to whether that is the case. We would not truly be intimate companions because of that. It's a waste of time.

:thumb:....you're either one flesh, or you aren't.

Lumpy
01-13-2011, 10:41 PM
Eh, nope. No prenup necessary.

DaneMcCloud
01-13-2011, 10:57 PM
We wouldn't be getting married. Not because I want a claim to her money, but because she has raised the question in her own heart and mind as to whether that is the case. We would not truly be intimate companions because of that. It's a waste of time.

Wow, I don't see it that way, at all.

First off, you're likely talking about a 22-25 year old who's family has attained a large amount of assets or wealth. It's only wise that the parents insist on a pre-nup. In most cases, I'd assume it would be discussed long before a marriage proposal would be made.

I have a feeling that if you had millions in assets and cash, you'd feel differently if it were your daughter's impending marriage.

JoeyChuckles
01-13-2011, 11:04 PM
Going through a divorce, didn't have a prenup. Not really a problem, as we had no assets when we got married.

Brock
01-13-2011, 11:09 PM
Wow, I don't see it that way, at all.

First off, you're likely talking about a 22-25 year old who's family has attained a large amount of assets or wealth. It's only wise that the parents insist on a pre-nup. In most cases, I'd assume it would be discussed long before a marriage proposal would be made.

I have a feeling that if you had millions in assets and cash, you'd feel differently if it were your daughter's impending marriage.

What my daughter does with her money is not my affair. If I felt like interfering in her life, the most I might do is not let her have any money until she's 30 and a little wiser about what to look for in a mate.

DaneMcCloud
01-13-2011, 11:30 PM
What my daughter does with her money is not my affair. If I felt like interfering in her life, the most I might do is not let her have any money until she's 30 and a little wiser about what to look for in a mate.

Well, that's where we differ.

I don't think some guy that my daughter marries has any claim to earnings and assets I've accumulated throughout my life. If there's a huge disparity in assets between the person my daughter chooses to marry someday, there will be a pre-nup involved.

Is my daughter entitled to those earnings assets? Absolutely.

Some guy that enters her life at whatever age? Hell no.

Brock
01-13-2011, 11:31 PM
Well, that's where we differ.

I don't think some guy that my daughter marries has any claim to earnings and assets I've accumulated throughout my life. If there's a huge disparity in assets between the person my daughter chooses to marry someday, there will be a pre-nup involved.

Is my daughter entitled to those earnings assets? Absolutely.

Some guy that enters her life at whatever age? Hell no.

If your daughter tells you to get bent and she doesn't want your money, what then?

ChiefsLV
01-13-2011, 11:36 PM
My response would be, don't marry a gold-digger. :shrug:

What if you have significant net worth that you built up before you met your spouse, your spouse has nothing, you are deeply in love and don't anticipate it ever ending but for whatever reason it ends up not working out down the road, years in the future. Is it really fair for your spouse to be able to walk away with half your shit when they brought nothing into the marriage?

Brock
01-13-2011, 11:38 PM
What if you have significant net worth that you built up before you met your spouse, your spouse has nothing, you are deeply in love and don't anticipate it ever ending but for whatever reason it ends up not working out down the road, years in the future. Is it really fair for your spouse to be able to walk away with half your shit when they brought nothing into the marriage?

You are anticipating it ending.

ChiefsLV
01-13-2011, 11:40 PM
You are anticipating it ending.

Hell, half of all marriages end. In the case I mentioned above, I'd be smart to sign a prenup. I also saw my dad get burned.

ChiefsCountry
01-13-2011, 11:42 PM
It sucks I see both Brock and Dane's point of view on this.

Brock
01-13-2011, 11:43 PM
Hell, half of all marriages end. In the case I mentioned above, I'd be smart to sign a prenup. I also saw my dad get burned.

So why not avoid the whole problem and not get married?

ChiefsLV
01-13-2011, 11:47 PM
So why not avoid the whole problem and not get married?

The other legal rights that come with marriage like being able to put my spouse on my health insurance at work. Just leave the community property out of it.

Brock
01-13-2011, 11:49 PM
The other legal rights that come with marriage like being able to put my spouse on my health insurance at work. Just leave the community property out of it.

That's no reason to get married.

ChiefsLV
01-13-2011, 11:54 PM
That's no reason to get married.

So I shouldn't be concerned that my spouse does not have health insurance?

DaneMcCloud
01-13-2011, 11:56 PM
If your daughter tells you to get bent and she doesn't want your money, what then?

Then it'll go to other relatives or like Jack Kent Cooke, to charity.

The bottom line is that marriages barely have a 50% of lasting a lifetime. I don't think that just because my daughter marries a guy and they divorce after 2, 5 or 10 years, he's automatically entitled to earnings and assets that I personally acquired.

And if I die, leaving my assets to my daughter while she's married, it's not unlikely that her husband will benefit as well.

He just won't benefit if they divorce.

Brock
01-13-2011, 11:57 PM
So I shouldn't be concerned that my spouse does not have health insurance?

If you're Mr. Moneybags in this scenario, just buy her health insurance. But you don't fully trust her, you're not truly intimate with her, so why trick yourself into thinking that you owe her health insurance?

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:00 AM
Then it'll go to other relatives or like Jack Kent Cooke, to charity.

The bottom line is that marriages barely have a 50% of lasting a lifetime. I don't think that just because my daughter marries a guy and they divorce after 2, 5 or 10 years, he's automatically entitled to earnings and assets that I personally acquired.

And if I die, leaving my assets to my daughter while she's married, it's not unlikely that her husband will benefit as well.

He just won't benefit if they divorce.

So, basically, you're prepared to cut your daughter entirely out of your life if she marries someone you disapprove of?

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:10 AM
If you're Mr. Moneybags in this scenario, just buy her health insurance. But you don't fully trust her, you're not truly intimate with her, so why trick yourself into thinking that you owe her health insurance?

This is grossly naive.

People can and do change over the years. My wife is 7 years younger than I am and many of the wedding we attended when we first started dating nearly 15 years ago have either come to an end or are ending.

There are no guarantees that you'll be in love with someone 5, 10, 15 or 20 years down the line. When there are sizable assets at stake (seven figures and way beyond), why would any sane thinking person NOT protect their assets and sign a pre-nup?

Why take a risk that could potentially cost you millions upon millions?

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:13 AM
This is grossly naive.

People can and do change over the years. My wife is 7 years younger than I am and many of the wedding we attended when we first started dating nearly 15 years ago have either come to an end or are ending.

There are no guarantees that you'll be in love with someone 5, 10, 15 or 20 years down the line. When there are sizable assets at stake (seven figures and way beyond), why would any sane thinking person NOT protect their assets and sign a pre-nup?

Why take a risk that could potentially cost you millions upon millions?

You didn't answer the question.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:14 AM
So, basically, you're prepared to cut your daughter entirely out of your life if she marries someone you disapprove of?

It has absolutely nothing to do with approval or disapproval. It has to do with being smart about social contracts.

If I had been engaged to a woman that was extremely wealthy or came from money, I would have had no problem signing a prenuptial agreement.

Why? Because I didn't earn their money and shouldn't be entitled to it if said marriage had ended. But, that was nowhere near the case for us.

That said, this isn't just something will be sprung upon my daughter when she decided to marry. It will be something that's discussed long before.

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:19 AM
It has absolutely nothing to do with approval or disapproval. It has to do with being smart about social contracts.

If I had been engaged to a woman that was extremely wealthy or came from money, I would have had no problem signing a prenuptial agreement.

Why? Because I didn't earn their money and shouldn't be entitled to it if said marriage had ended. But, that was nowhere near the case for us.

That said, this isn't just something will be sprung upon my daughter when she decided to marry. It will be something that's discussed long before.

Well, let's say you discussed it with her long before she met that guy from Nebraska in the rusty pickup truck, but she's still going to marry him and move to Omaha with him. And you reiterate that if she does that, she's out of the will or whatever, and she doesn't care, and furthermore if you feel that way about it, she might just as soon never see you again. Are you prepared to not speak to your daughter again over it?

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:21 AM
There are no guarantees that you'll be in love with someone 5, 10, 15 or 20 years down the line.

Will you still be in love with your wife 5, 10, 15 or 20 years down the line? If you don't know the answer to this question, I'll tell you what it is.

ChiefsCountry
01-14-2011, 12:23 AM
Just blame it on the family lawyer and CPA and say they are making it me do it. That would be the easiest way out, if even you were true love for life. I whole heartly agree with Brock with marriage should be for love only, but if you are a wealthy person you got to cover your ass just in case the worst case situation would happen.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:26 AM
Well, let's say you discussed it with her long before she met that guy from Nebraska in the rusty pickup truck, but she's still going to marry him and move to Omaha with him. And you reiterate that if she does that, she's out of the will or whatever, and she doesn't care, and furthermore if you feel that way about it, she might just as soon never see you again. Are you prepared to not speak to your daughter again over it?

This is a GIGANTIC hypothetical that isn't even worth addressing. WAY too many "If's".

Why do you feel that entering into marriage automatically entitles one to assets gained prior to that marriage?

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 12:29 AM
Why do you keep asking me this? Can't you google this yourself?

I keep asking it to you hoping you would see a simple point of truth. I failed. Sue me.

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:31 AM
This is a GIGANTIC hypothetical that isn't even worth addressing. WAY too many "If's".

Why do you feel that entering into marriage automatically entitles one to assets gained prior to that marriage?

I'm merely answering your hypothetical with my own. You say your daughter has to do this or else. There's only one "if" here and that's "if your family is going to be broken over it, are you going to stand on principle?".

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:31 AM
I keep asking it to you hoping you would see a simple point of truth. I failed. Sue me.

I think my point has been lost on you.

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 12:32 AM
I whole heartly agree with Brock with marriage should be for love only,

It could be argued that if you are marrying for love, then what does a pre-nup matter? If you refuse to sign a prenup to clarify which assets are brought in by which parties.....(assuming the one bringing in the least assets is refusing to sign) doesnt that imply just the OPPOSITE of marrying for love? Wouldnt someone 'marrying for love' sign a prenup to show they werent marrying for money?

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 12:34 AM
I think my point has been lost on you.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/06/prenuptialagreement.asp

The divorce rate without a prenup in many many places is already ~50% and there is absolutely no evidence to support a higher divorce rate with a prenup. That completely proves your original point to be false.

-King-
01-14-2011, 12:35 AM
It could be argued that if you are marrying for love, then what does a pre-nup matter? If you refuse to sign a prenup to clarify which assets are brought in by which parties.....(assuming the one bringing in the least assets is refusing to sign) doesnt that imply just the OPPOSITE of marrying for love? Wouldnt someone 'marrying for love' sign a prenup to show they werent marrying for money?

Bingo.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:35 AM
I'm merely answering your hypothetical with my own. You say your daughter has to do this or else. There's only one "if" here and that's "if your family is going to be broken over it, are you going to stand on principle?".

Dude, a "prenuptial agreement" will discussed throughout her life, just as no drugs, no smoking, no underage drinking, no drinking and driving, no unprotected sex, etc. will be discussed.

It's not going to be some "Big Shock" once she decides to marry and I seriously doubt, given the private schooling, college, etc., let alone the circle of friends, that it'll come as any surprise to a potential mate.

It's more likely that she'll be asked to sign one as well.

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:36 AM
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/06/prenuptialagreement.asp

The divorce rate without a prenup in many many places is already ~50% and there is absolutely no evidence to support a higher divorce rate with a prenup. That completely proves your original point to be false.

I never made any such point.

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:37 AM
Dude, a "prenuptial agreement" will discussed throughout her life, just as no drugs, no smoking, no underage drinking, no drinking and driving, no unprotected sex, etc. will be discussed.

It's not going to be some "Big Shock" once she decides to marry and I seriously doubt, given the private schooling, college, etc., let alone the circle of friends, that it'll come as any surprise to a potential mate.

It's more likely that she'll be asked to sign one as well.

Who's naive?

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 12:37 AM
If you think you need a prenup, you're a fool to get married in the first place.

This was your first point, which is garbage

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:37 AM
Who's naive?

Huh?

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:38 AM
This was your first point, which is garbage

You clearly don't understand what that means, if you think it had anything to do with divorce rate.

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:39 AM
Huh?

Your kids will do things that you disapprove of, in spite of all of your teaching. I'd still like an answer to that hypothetical, not that it matters at this point.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:39 AM
If you think you need a prenup, you're a fool to get married in the first place.

Clearly, you aren't worth eight figures or more.

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:40 AM
Clearly, you aren't worth eight figures or more.

Are you?

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 12:40 AM
You clearly don't understand what that means, if you think it had anything to do with divorce rate.

You clearly have no idea what you say from one moment to the next or how logic works.

You claim that anyone who needs a prenup is a 'fool'.


Yet I clearly demonstrated the OPPOSITE. Marriages fail at a rate of 50% , without a prenup.

So you are a FOOL if you think youre the special one who has no chance at getting a divorce.


Maybe you are the fool? Before you get so quick to dismiss someone, why not try reading what they wrote? Oh maybe it is because you fail to even understand what YOU wrote.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:43 AM
Are you?

I'm not going to answer that question.

But, I can tell you that I know children from the ages of 6-10 that will receive $5 million on their 18th birthday and another $10-15 million when they turn 25.

It would be absolutely absurd for said children to enter into a marriage without a prenuptial agreement.

Agree or disagree?

Short Leash Hootie
01-14-2011, 12:46 AM
Are you?

dude his wife owns 23 jumbo jets and 2,550 Pepsi vending machines...what do you think?

-King-
01-14-2011, 12:46 AM
Clearly, you aren't worth eight figures or more.

LMAO Wtf?

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 12:47 AM
But, I can tell you that I know children from the ages of 6-10 that will receive $5 million on their 18th birthday and another $10-15 million when they turn 25.


Also, one doesn't need to have such extreme examples to demonstrate the value of a prenup to even more common situations. Just take a family home, worth say $500,000 that one of the couple now owns prior to getting married. The home MAY be protected under certain state laws...or it may not...Wouldnt it be worth checking into? Say for example you got married and 3 years later you get divorced...Should the home be sold and then 50% of the proceeds go to each? Like I said, in many states , existing assets have some protections already, but things can be made CRYSTAL clear with a pre-nup and avoid nasty fights down the road.

-King-
01-14-2011, 12:48 AM
dude his wife owns 23 jumbo jets and 2,550 Pepsi vending machines...what do you think?

http://bestblogever.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/george-bush-laughing.jpg

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:49 AM
You clearly have no idea what you say from one moment to the next or how logic works.

You claim that anyone who needs a prenup is a 'fool'.


Yet I clearly demonstrated the OPPOSITE. Marriages fail at a rate of 50% , without a prenup.

So you are a FOOL if you think youre the special one who has no chance at getting a divorce.


Maybe you are the fool? Before you get so quick to dismiss someone, why not try reading what they wrote? Oh maybe it is because you fail to even understand what YOU wrote.

No, I understand perfectly what I wrote. If you need a prenup to get married, you are simply admitting it's a mistake beforehand. Were I ever lucky enough to find another soulmate, I would be admitting that she is not who I'm saying she is by asking her to sign that. The reason the divorce rate is 50 percent as you say is because too many people are getting married for the wrong reasons and to the wrong people.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:49 AM
LMAO Wtf?

I don't understand why you're laughing.

Please explain to me why someone that's worth less than, let's say, even $3 million dollars needs a pre-nup?

To me, the cutoff is around $7 million but at $10 million or more in assets, a pre-nup is absolutely needed.

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:50 AM
I'm not going to answer that question.

But, I can tell you that I know children from the ages of 6-10 that will receive $5 million on their 18th birthday and another $10-15 million when they turn 25.

It would be absolutely absurd for said children to enter into a marriage without a prenuptial agreement.

Agree or disagree?

You're not going to answer the question you flung at me like it means anything?

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:50 AM
dude his wife owns 23 jumbo jets and 2,550 Pepsi vending machines...what do you think?

I'm glad you're having fun, Hootie, but be fully aware, those businesses were started on MY dime.

Short Leash Hootie
01-14-2011, 12:51 AM
I'm not going to answer that question.

But, I can tell you that I know children from the ages of 6-10 that will receive $5 million on their 18th birthday and another $10-15 million when they turn 25.

It would be absolutely absurd for said children to enter into a marriage without a prenuptial agreement.

Agree or disagree?

Totally agree.

and if I ever entered into a situation where I stumbled into a rich bitch who wanted to marry me for some unknown reason I'd have no trouble signing a prenup...none whatsoever.

Wouldn't bother me in the least...and it shouldn't bother ANY guy...because guys aren't the ones prenuptial agreements are designed to protect...a small percentage of trust fund girls ever marry below their social status...

Shit my friend used to hook up with a so-so looking girl set to inherit $2,000,000 when she turned 25 and everyone told him to marry her but she sucked as a person and she wasn't much to look at and he was like..."fuck that"...

If I was set to inherit a large sum of money at age 25, I guarantee I would have had the hottest girlfriends throughout my entire life...no matter what. I hang out with some smart girls at work who excel at Drake and University of Illinois (very pretty sisters) and, despite spending tons of $$$$ (parents I assume) on good educations their goal in life is to marry rich guys.

That's all it takes. Status. That's why being the coolest waiter/bartender has gotten me so much tang over the years!!!!!! (That was for you, Dane)

KILLER_CLOWN
01-14-2011, 12:52 AM
If you need a prenup, DO NOT GET MARRIED! Keep Looking b'cause that isn't the one.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:53 AM
Also, one doesn't need to have such extreme examples to demonstrate the value of a prenup to even more common situations. Just take a family home, worth say $500,000 that one of the couple now owns prior to getting married. The home MAY be protected under certain state laws...or it may not...Wouldnt it be worth checking into? Say for example you got married and 3 years later you get divorced...Should the home be sold and then 50% of the proceeds go to each? Like I said, in many states , existing assets have some protections already, but things can be made CRYSTAL clear with a pre-nup and avoid nasty fights down the road.

See, I don't think something that petty falls under a pre-nuptial.

In most cases, the judge will look at the assets and earnings accrued during the marriage and split them equally.

The pre-nup comes into play when one of the parties has a substantial amount of wealth BEFORE the marriage, and exists so that the other party can't walk away with half of those assets.

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 12:53 AM
ALso - some states (like California) have such extreme protections that a prenuptial may actually be BENEFICIAL to the party not bringing any assets into the marriage.

For example, say a husband and wife life together for 30 years, in a house that HE owned free and clear prior to the marriage. 30 years go by, they get a divorce and the house is now worth a million dollars. Well, without a pre-nub - SHE could be screwed. A prenuptial may state something like this:

together 5 years - 5 % of home
togther 10 years 10 %
together 20 years 25%
30 years 50%

Etc...

I think truly the people against prenuptials have no idea what they are for or have some other misconceptions.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:54 AM
Totally agree.

and if I ever entered into a situation where I stumbled into a rich bitch who wanted to marry me for some unknown reason I'd have no trouble signing a prenup...none whatsoever.

Wouldn't bother me in the least...and it shouldn't bother ANY guy...because guys aren't the ones prenuptial agreements are designed to protect...a small percentage of trust fund girls ever marry below their social status...

Shit my friend used to hook up with a so-so looking girl set to inherit $2,000,000 when she turned 25 and everyone told him to marry her but she sucked as a person and she wasn't much to look at and he was like..."fuck that"...

If I was set to inherit a large sum of money at age 25, I guarantee I would have had the hottest girlfriends throughout my entire life...no matter what. I hang out with some smart girls at work who excel at Drake and University of Illinois (very pretty sisters) and, despite spending tons of $$$$ (parents I assume) on good educations their goal in life is to marry rich guys.

That's all it takes. Status. That's why being the coolest waiter/bartender has gotten me so much tang over the years!!!!!! (That was for you, Dane)

Hootie, we're in complete agreement.

And for the record, I hope you marry an insanely wealthy woman that doesn't require you to sign a pre-nup.

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 12:54 AM
If you need a prenup to get married, you are simply admitting it's a mistake beforehand.

This is just simply not true...As I said before..For you to make this claim, you would then need to prove that the divorce rate was actually HIGHER for those with pre-nups. You havent done that. Therefore that is just hot air coming our of your anus.

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:56 AM
This is just simply not true...As I said before..For you to make this claim, you would then need to prove that the divorce rate was actually HIGHER for those with pre-nups. You havent done that. Therefore that is just hot air coming our of your anus.

Okay, you're admitting that it MIGHT be a mistake. I appreciate you not getting personal about it, though.

-King-
01-14-2011, 12:57 AM
I don't understand why you're laughing.

Please explain to me why someone that's worth less than, let's say, even $3 million dollars needs a pre-nup?

To me, the cutoff is around $7 million but at $10 million or more in assets, a pre-nup is absolutely needed.

Why exactly is that the cutoff? $3 million to us commoners is still a lot. It might not be a lot to you, but its still something people would want to protect.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:57 AM
No, I understand perfectly what I wrote. If you need a prenup to get married, you are simply admitting it's a mistake beforehand.

LMAO

Brock, I've always thought you were a good dude. And until now, I've always thought you were reasonable.

But this is flat-out INSANE talk.

You fall in love with someone and decide to marry them, regardless of wealth. IF that person just happens to be wealthy, there is absolutely NO HARM in signing a prenup, especially if it's true love.

All a pre-nup means that IF the marriage dissolves, the parties involved aren't required to split assets acquired BEFORE the marriage.

That's it. End of story.

You're making too big of a deal out of a prenuptial agreement.

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:57 AM
Hootie, we're in complete agreement.

And for the record, I hope you marry an insanely wealthy woman that doesn't require you to sign a pre-nup.

I hope he marries a woman that makes him happy.

KILLER_CLOWN
01-14-2011, 12:57 AM
ALso - some states (like California) have such extreme protections that a prenuptial may actually be BENEFICIAL to the party not bringing any assets into the marriage.

For example, say a husband and wife life together for 30 years, in a house that HE owned free and clear prior to the marriage. 30 years go by, they get a divorce and the house is now worth a million dollars. Well, without a pre-nub - SHE could be screwed. A prenuptial may state something like this:

together 5 years - 5 % of home
togther 10 years 10 %
together 20 years 25%
30 years 50%

Etc...

I think truly the people against prenuptials have no idea what they are for or have some other misconceptions.

If you don't trust her, DON'T MARRY HER! I guess some go into a marriage thinking well if i could just get a few good years out of her, then i can do that Russian Mail Order Bride..Rinse and Repeat...

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 12:58 AM
See, I don't think something that petty falls under a pre-nuptial.

In most cases, the judge will look at the assets and earnings accrued during the marriage and split them equally.

The pre-nup comes into play when one of the parties has a substantial amount of wealth BEFORE the marriage, and exists so that the other party can't walk away with half of those assets.

Dane , as someone who lives in california...I find your comment to be ignorant...Honestly...

In california there are no-fault divorces and a judge cant just give your house away to your wife, if it was yours before the marriage....or any of your other assets.

California is one of the better states in that regard...

I'm not sure if you claiming that a 500k house is 'petty' is just to prove that you are somehow a wealthy man, but to some people 500k isa fortune...

Again you come off rather ignorant here...

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 12:59 AM
Why exactly is that the cutoff? $3 million to us commoners is still a lot. It might not be a lot to you, but its still something people would want to protect.

Why? Real estate.

It's not uncommon for a home in California (and other states) to be worth a few million dollars. Throw in life insurance policies on elderly parents and an income property or two, and you're way beyond $3 million. Probably more like $9-10 million.

Brock
01-14-2011, 12:59 AM
LMAO

Brock, I've always thought you were a good dude. And until now, I've always thought you were reasonable.

But this is flat-out INSANE talk.

You fall in love with someone and decide to marry them, regardless of wealth. IF that person just happens to be wealthy, there is absolutely NO HARM in signing a prenup, especially if it's true love.

All a pre-nup means that IF the marriage dissolves, the parties involved aren't required to split assets acquired BEFORE the marriage.

That's it. End of story.

You're making too big of a deal out of a prenuptial agreement.

I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't ask anyone to do it, and I wouldn't marry anyone who asked me to do it.

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 01:00 AM
If you don't trust her, DON'T MARRY HER! I guess some go into a marriage thinking well if i could just get a few good years out of her, then i can do that Russian Mail Order Bride..Rinse and Repeat...

I dont agree with this logic....

People buy health insurance, car insurance, fire insurance.....people write wills......

If you really and truly trust someone, then why wouldnt you sit down and simply talk about what would happen should the marriage come to and end? Isnt that what trust is?

trndobrd
01-14-2011, 01:01 AM
Interestingly, I've seen studies that divorcees are much more amenable to prenups than other people. Does that mean that those people don't value marriage enough to work on it, or that they've been through the sausage grinder legal system and realize that sometimes it might be less painful and traumatic to sort all that shit out beforehand?


People on their second marriage usually have more assets (businesses, retirement accounts, real estate) to protect than youngsters on their first marriage. They often have specific items (the family farm, grandma's china, etc.) that they want to make sure go to their own children and won't get lost in a divorce settlement.

KILLER_CLOWN
01-14-2011, 01:01 AM
I dont agree with this logic....

People buy health insurance, car insurance, fire insurance.....people write wills......

If you really and truly trust someone, then why wouldnt you sit down and simply talk about what would happen should the marriage come to and end? Isnt that what trust is?

No that sounds more like a girlfriend.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 01:02 AM
Dane , as someone who lives in california...I find your comment to be ignorant...Honestly...

In california there are no-fault divorces and a judge cant just give your house away to your wife, if it was yours before the marriage....or any of your other assets.

California is one of the better states in that regard...

I'm not sure if you claiming that a 500k house is 'petty' is just to prove that you are somehow a wealthy man, but to some people 500k isa fortune...

Again you come off rather ignorant here...

First off, I think it's rare that either spouse owns a home before marriage, unless we're talking people in their 30's & 40's that are re-marrying.

Secondly, most people in their 30's and 40's that are getting married (for the first or second time) don't own their homes outright. There's a bank note and for most, the equity is probably around $100k or so.

Thirdly, I'm not claiming that a $500k home is "petty" but again, someone that's likely to own a $500k home probably has only about $100k in equity or so.

My post wasn't intended to insult or belittle anyone. It was based on numbers.

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 01:02 AM
I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't ask anyone to do it, and I wouldn't marry anyone who asked me to do it.

That is your right. I wouldnt want to marry anyone who wasn't willing to have a direct conversation and communication about what my wishes were regarding my children, assets, and property in the event that the marriage ended.

Those are the kinds of things you have to sort out before you ask them to marry you.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 01:04 AM
I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't ask anyone to do it, and I wouldn't marry anyone who asked me to do it.

So, if you met, dated and wanted to marry a women worth $10 million dollars and you truly loved her but she asked you to sign a pre-nup stating that IF the marriage were to dissolve, you weren't entitled to any portion of that $10 million, you'd decline?

Well in that case, I'd say that's not "true love".

KILLER_CLOWN
01-14-2011, 01:05 AM
So, if you met, dated and wanted to marry a women worth $10 million dollars and you truly loved her but she asked you to sign a pre-nup stating that IF the marriage were to dissolve, you weren't entitled to any portion of that $10 million, you'd decline?

Well in that case, I'd say that's not "true love".

I'd tell her to go marry her money.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 01:07 AM
I'd tell her to go marry her money.

Sure you would.

LMAO

Fuck, I LOVE this place!

Only on Chiefsplanet would someone NOT marry for love if they had to give up the right to their betrothed's assets.

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 01:07 AM
[QUOTE=DaneMcCloud;7353731]
Secondly, most people in their 30's and 40's that are getting married (for the first or second time) don't own their homes outright. There's a bank note and for most, the equity is probably around $100k or so.
/QUOTE]

Those are the cases that are perfect for a pre-nup.

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 01:07 AM
So, if you met, dated and wanted to marry a women worth $10 million dollars and you truly loved her but she asked you to sign a pre-nup stating that IF the marriage were to dissolve, you weren't entitled to any portion of that $10 million, you'd decline?

Well in that case, I'd say that's not "true love".

Exactly.

Short Leash Hootie
01-14-2011, 01:10 AM
I don't like agreeing with Dane but you guys are forcing my hand...

It's not like the argument is valid 99% of the time...women just don't marry out of their social class unless they have some serious issues (and in that case, you don't want to marry them anyways)...

Any girl with $10M is going to marry a guy with money...that's life. She might sleeze around with some big, strong men...but she's not going to marry one.

However...

If I ever have a shit ton of money and I marry a girl who has nothing...there will be a prenup in place...

However again...

If I ever have a shit ton of money I doubt I'll GET married unless I am already married...no point.

In all honesty...if I didn't want children some day I'd see no reason for marriage anymore, anyways...

Lets see, hobbies are: sports, NFL, playing poker, gambling, napping, drinking, watching cool TV shows...

right now I have a girlfriend who is pretty badass and lets me do just about all of those no questions asked (she gets mad at video games sometimes)...but if this doesn't work out and I stumble upon a bunch of money someday and am still single at age 40...

I'll get married to the casino and hook up with randoms or jerk it to internet porn for the rest of my life...sadly that would be a content life for me...

If I had the money I could be a damn good poker player...don't have the patience for smaller limits and don't have the capital for big limits...therefore profitable poker isn't an option for me.

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 01:10 AM
Only on Chiefsplanet would someone NOT marry for love if they had to give up the right to their betrothed's assets.

LOL Totally.

And only on CP is having a conversation about what you want done with your children, assets, property etc... BEFORE you get married some kind of indication of a poor relationship...

I guess it is better to not talk about it or have a binding agreement about these things...and just wait till the marriage ends, and emotions are running high to sort it out...LOL

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 01:10 AM
Secondly, most people in their 30's and 40's that are getting married (for the first or second time) don't own their homes outright. There's a bank note and for most, the equity is probably around $100k or so.


Those are the cases that are perfect for a pre-nup.

Maybe, but considering that half of that $100k would go to legals fees, I'm not sure it's worth $25k to each individual.

I mean, a prenup over $25k? That seems petty and silly to me.

KILLER_CLOWN
01-14-2011, 01:10 AM
Sure you would.

LMAO

****, I LOVE this place!

Only on Chiefsplanet would someone NOT marry for love if they had to give up the right to their betrothed's assets.

I would, being that this is hypothetical since i'm married to the perfect woman and my best friend i guess it's easy for me to say.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 01:12 AM
I don't like agreeing with Dane but you guys are forcing my hand...



Sorry, Hootie.

I hope you didn't throw up in your mouth.

o:-)

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 01:12 AM
Maybe, but considering that half of that $100k would go to legals fees, I'm not sure it's worth $25k to each individual.

I mean, a prenup over $25k? That seems petty and silly to me.

well it only costs 2k to write it up, and in your example it would be worth 100k to the guy and also, the hassle of not having to sell his house.

You can call that petty in your wealthy world, but 2k to protect 100k in equity isnt petty to me...the 2k SAVES on the legal fees....well it should, if done properly.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 01:15 AM
well it only costs 2k to write it up, and in your example it would be worth 100k to the guy and also, the hassle of not having to sell his house.

You can call that petty in your wealthy world, but 2k to protect 100k in equity isnt petty to me...

Well, my point was that it would be a difficult sell to a potential marriage partner.

I'm not trying to insult anyone but if someone asked me to sign a prenup because of $100k in equity, I'd turn and run the other way.

$5 million? Sure. $100k?

Go fuck yourself.

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 01:19 AM
Well, my point was that it would be a difficult sell to a potential marriage partner.

I'm not trying to insult anyone but if someone asked me to sign a prenup because of $100k in equity, I'd turn and run the other way.

$5 million? Sure. $100k?

Go **** yourself.

Well, i think your logic fails you there. Your saying 5 million is worth it to you......But 100k isnt. Well, Someone wealthier than you might laugh at 5 million.....

There are people in this country who wouldnt laugh at 100k, believe me. And there are people that have messy divorces over much less....I know to guys like you who have everything, it seems 'beneath you.' But it is a lot of money to some people (100k) and also could be sentimental (a family home).

For you to judge someone because X amount of money is not enough for you....well you have to realize that X is different for everyone. I didn't realize you were that far disconnected from the common person...

Short Leash Hootie
01-14-2011, 01:21 AM
well I believe what is mine is mine...

If the girl I marry needs me to sign something so she makes sure she gets to keep it in case something goes wrong...then where do I sign? I don't care if it's for $30M, $30K or a pack of cigarettes.

If I demand she signs something so she can't put her greasy paws on my Xbox360 then she best oblige or I'll give her the people's boot!

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 01:22 AM
If the girl I marry needs me to sign something so she makes sure she gets to keep it in case something goes wrong...then where do I sign? I don't care if it's for $30M, $30K or a pack of cigarettes.

If I demand she signs something so she can't put her greasy paws on my Xbox360 then she best oblige or I'll give her the people's boot!

Youre so romantic...A true gentleman. Godspeed. I agree too, show me where to sign....I aint in it for the cash, and whats mine is mine.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 01:25 AM
Well, i think your logic fails you there. Your saying 5 million is worth it to you......But 100k isnt. Well, Someone wealthier than you might laugh at 5 million.....

Laugh? No, I think it's highly appropriate.

There are people in this country who wouldnt laugh at 100k, believe me. And there are people that have messy divorces over much less.

You are completely missing the point.

If someone is going to ask for a prenup because of $100k in equity, which could just as easily go away tomorrow due to the economy, that's a HUGE red flag.

There's no WAY I'd sign that and I'd discourage ANYONE I know from signing that. $100k in equity? Really? It's paper money.

For you to judge someone because X amount of money is not enough for you....well you have to realize that X is different for everyone. I didn't realize you were that far disconnected from the common person...

I'm not disconnected but apparently, you are.

If you meet, date and fall in love with someone, only for them to turn around and you to sign a pre-nup because they own a house, I'd say RUN.

99% of the time, the judge will look at the assets and when they're acquired, then divide them. If you own a house before you're married, it's highly unlikely, unless you're married for a decade or more, that a judge would make you sell the home and split the net revenue from that sale.

Once again, this is a hypothetical that isn't even worth discussing.

Short Leash Hootie
01-14-2011, 01:26 AM
I don't know, I'm a little old fashioned. I don't let my girlfriend pay for anything, ever. I went to her place for XMas and went out with her and her friends and forgot how Chicago drinking and Champaign drinking differed and my tab was outrageous...

but hey, money is money...if I have some I might as well look like a baller every once in a while...I'll start worrying about money and saving it when I start thinking about having kids and actual responsibilities.

DaneMcCloud
01-14-2011, 01:31 AM
but hey, money is money...if I have some I might as well look like a baller every once in a while...I'll start worrying about money and saving it when I start thinking about having kids and actual responsibilities.

That's a pretty good plan until you're 30.

If you hit 30 and realize that you're no where near being married or having kids, you should probably start saving your money and putting together a plan.

There are very few women that would be considered worth marrying that would settle down with a 32 year old guy that lives with three other guys and spends the majority of his time on an X box.

No offense.

Short Leash Hootie
01-14-2011, 01:38 AM
I'm bored so I'm going to hijack this thread for a minute:

Here's a funny (embarrassing) story that happened to me 2 days ago.

I was at work serving some tables like usual...and I had this one table with 8 guests. Well the mom (I assume) shows up first and I talk to her a bit and she orders a beer and blah blah blah...real nice lady. Some of the other group starts showing up 15 minutes later (and I am terrible with faces, regulars, past people I've served because I've been doing it for so long and I have a routine and I don't give a shit about remembering anyone)...

Anyways this one girl about my age is just being a total bitch for *what I thought to be* no reason...she wants a bacardi and diet so I bring her one and she like rips it from my hand and tells me to bring a shorter glass next time...

I'm like...ok? The entire time these people just turn cold and I'd joke with it to my coworkers and I'd be like..."damn, these people are just angry..." It was baffling...because normally everyone is so pleasant and shit, I work there nonstop so it's basically impossible to fuck up and everything is the same every single day...easiest job in the world...

I just chalk it up to some people hate life...and I was too busy at the time to care anyways...I've been doing this for far too long to worry about someone not liking me.

Anyways they left...and I was laughing and was like "well, ok"...and then I went to look at my phone...

OH MAN...

So apparently 3 months prior I served this same table (they were a group of 15 or so) and the girl with the bacardi and diet left her number on the table...well I had a girlfriend and didn't remember what she even looked like (5 out of 10 FYI from this past time)...so I gave it to some desperate kid I work with who always complains about getting no p*ssy...and the # was labeled as "girl with the green shirt"...

well that asshole texted her and said "what's up girl with the green shirt"...so she immediately thought it was me...and then later he texted her and asked her if she wanted to "fuck"...

well I look at my phone and he forwards me a text from her thinking he was me and saying "you would have gotten a bigger tip if it wasn't for the "wanna fuck" text...that was slightly inappropriate..."

so yeah...for an hour I served a family (daughter, brothers, cousins, mom, dad) who all thought I was some creep who tried soliciting sex from their daughter...that was great. I only have myself to blame for not throwing that away instead of pawning it off...though, it gave everyone at work a nice laugh so that was cool.

and they gave me $15 on $90 so it's not like I even cared anyways...shit if I were them I would've crossed the tip line out...but yeah...learned my lesson on this one.

Short Leash Hootie
01-14-2011, 01:42 AM
That's a pretty good plan until you're 30.

If you hit 30 and realize that you're no where near being married or having kids, you should probably start saving your money and putting together a plan.

There are very few women that would be considered worth marrying that would settle down with a 32 year old guy that lives with three other guys and spends the majority of his time on an X box.

No offense.

well I put money into a Roth IRA every month because my dad makes me "pay myself before I pay anyone else"...so I just consider that another bill...

chances are I'll be dead before I'm 60 so I don't really see the point but hey...

Short Leash Hootie
01-14-2011, 01:46 AM
oh and P.S.

what kind of person leaves their number for a degenerate waiter at a fucking pizza place that gets offended when she gets a text that says "wanna fuck"?

Shit the girl I'm dating now...that's a real true love story...we got super drunk at a bar crawl, made out at a bar (disgusting I hate when people do this), forgot about it, were told by everyone the next day...and then we went from there.

That's how I roll.

Pawnmower
01-14-2011, 09:20 AM
Laugh? No, I think it's highly appropriate.

You are completely missing the point.

If someone is going to ask for a prenup because of $100k in equity, which could just as easily go away tomorrow due to the economy, that's a HUGE red flag.

There's no WAY I'd sign that and I'd discourage ANYONE I know from signing that. $100k in equity? Really? It's paper money.

I'm not disconnected but apparently, you are.

If you meet, date and fall in love with someone, only for them to turn around and you to sign a pre-nup because they own a house, I'd say RUN.


I see so the 100k isn't worth it but 5 million somehow is....And you wouldnt balk at signing a pre-nup for 5 mil, but somehow 100k you would 'run' even if you still felt the same 'love.'

You have a huge double standard that is arbitrary. You are ignoring that 100k in real property is probably one of the safest investments at this time...not 'paper money'.....it is called 'real estate' for a reason.

You saying you would sign a prenup for X amount but that for other people signing a prenup for Y amount is not worth it is hypocritical.

I mean each person has their own amount that would make it worth while to do a pre-nuptial...Your examples of 5 year old kids getting millions of dollars for their birthday is much more rare than the example of someone with a home with 100K of equity.

Rausch
01-14-2011, 09:42 AM
****, I LOVE this place!

Only on Chiefsplanet would someone NOT marry for love if they had to give up the right to their betrothed's assets.

Not many women will marry a rich guy if they don't get the payoff after he's dead.

Even middle class, for that matter...

DaFace
01-14-2011, 10:07 AM
I'm torn on a topic like this. My wife and I didn't do one, and it never crossed my mind. But if I were wealthy and she were not (or vice versa), it probably would have at least been a consideration. The romantic in me says that you're making it too easy to divorce and that the fact that you'd consider a prenup is an indicator that you're not fully committed to the relationship. But the logical person in me also acknowledges that it could be a major issue for someone with a lot of wealth if things don't last.

That said, this recurring comment keeps irking me:

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/06/prenuptialagreement.asp

The divorce rate without a prenup in many many places is already ~50% and there is absolutely no evidence to support a higher divorce rate with a prenup. That completely proves your original point to be false.

The fact that there is no evidence to show that there is a higher divorce rate DOES NOT mean that the point is false. It means that the truth is UNKNOWN. There's a huge difference there.

Divorce rates are incredibly difficult to measure accurately. To do it right, you need to measure divorce as a function of their associated marriages, and you can't do that accurately until all of the marriages have concluded (i.e., divorce or death). That's why you see so many different estimates. Not surprisingly, it would seem that there simply haven't been any large-scale studies done to evaluate the impacts of prenups. So, while Brock can't prove his point, you can't disprove it either.