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JASONSAUTO
01-14-2011, 02:57 PM
the league has given the NFLPA 2 options on games.
18+2
16+2

no more four preseason games. the fans, league, and players dont want it.

Per.PFT sorry couldnt get a link to work.

Thoughts?

loochy
01-14-2011, 02:58 PM
the league has given the NFLPA 2 options on games.
18+2
16+2

no more four preseason games. the fans, league, and players dont want it.

Per.PFT sorry couldnt get a link to work.

Thoughts?

Good. Preseason is boring anyways...especially the last few where it's only 3rd and 4th stringers that we will likely never see again.

DeezNutz
01-14-2011, 02:59 PM
Moving to 18 regular season games would be a mistake, IMO.

Pestilence
01-14-2011, 03:00 PM
Go with 16+2

Extra Point
01-14-2011, 03:03 PM
Can't they cut the preseason down to 3 games, and keep the 16 game schedule? Is there that much revenue in preseason? If there's a STL game during the season, can't they just make that the Governor's Cup, and skip the annual preseason Cup game? There are other teams that have annual trophy games, aren't there?

For instance, can't scrimmage games at MO West be televised, with revenue divided amongst the league?

-King-
01-14-2011, 03:03 PM
16 and 2 sounds like a good deal.

18 and 2 is such overkill.

-King-
01-14-2011, 03:04 PM
Can't they cut the preseason down to 3 games, and keep the 16 game schedule? Is there that much revenue in preseason? If there's a STL game during the season, can't they just make that the Governor's Cup, and skip the annual preseason Cup game? There are other teams that have annual trophy games, aren't there?

For instance, can't scrimmage games at MO West be televised, with revenue divided amongst the league?

Teams would want an equal amount of home games. I don't think any team wants to have 2 away games and only 1 home game in the preseason.

milkman
01-14-2011, 03:05 PM
Go 17 and 2 with two bye weeks and an expanded roster with 55 active players.

-King-
01-14-2011, 03:07 PM
Go 17 and 2 with two bye weeks and an expanded roster with 55 active players.

I think it has to be an even number. Owners would be pissed if they only got 8 home games while other teams got 9.

JASONSAUTO
01-14-2011, 03:07 PM
Go 17 and 2 with two bye weeks and an expanded roster with 55 active players.

sorry but that wasnt an option....:p

Old Dog
01-14-2011, 03:08 PM
Go 17 and 2 with two bye weeks and an expanded roster with 55 active players.

17 wouldn't work as you would have some teams with 8 home and others with 9.

Extra Point
01-14-2011, 03:08 PM
Teams would want an equal amount of home games. I don't think any team wants to have 2 away games and only 1 home game in the preseason.

The odd-ness of it, if your team plays away games in PS, better prepares the team for adversity. That, or the bye-week in PS gives you some prep time.

I'd be concerned about PS injuries, which can and does hurt some teams.

Bill Lundberg
01-14-2011, 03:08 PM
I can't understand why the league would give them the option of 16 + 2. Having 2 home preseason games instead of 1 puts quite a bit of extra $$ in the owner's pockets I would think. I know I get fleeced into paying full price for 2 every year as part of the season tickets.

Hydrae
01-14-2011, 03:09 PM
I would think the number of preseason games should be determined by the coaches. These games are not about the fans or revenue (at least they shouldn't be about revenue, IMO), they are a chance to a coach to see lower level players at game speed. It let's the coaches see who to keep for depth, who has picked up the schemes for the season, etc. I think they should keep 3-4 preseason games for the sake of evaluation. They don't need to televise them nationally, let this be a chance for the local guys to broadcast a game maybe. And for heaven's sake, stop charging full admission like a regular season games, these games do not count and there is no reason to expect fans to pay that kind of change.

I would like them to keep the 16 game schedule simply because it works out so balanced for the most part. If you add 2 games, how do you do this in an equitable manner for all teams?

Extra Point
01-14-2011, 03:10 PM
I know I get fleeced into paying full price for 2 every year as part of the season tickets.

And that sucks.

Old Dog
01-14-2011, 03:10 PM
I don't mind the preseason games as a fan, I think they're needed to see what fringe players that will otherwise likely miss making a team may bring in game-action to push them over the top. As a STH though, I hate the idea of paying full price for a glorified practice.

Old Dog
01-14-2011, 03:14 PM
Play a 3rd preseason game, but at a neutral site and split the receipts? Games for Mexico, England, Canada, whatever. Probably a dumb-assed idea, but it can't be any worse than a possible lockout.

-King-
01-14-2011, 03:15 PM
Play a 3rd preseason game, but at a neutral site and split the receipts? Games for Mexico, England, Canada, whatever. Probably a dumb-assed idea, but it can't be any worse than a possible lockout.

Although I can't see them playing 16 games at neutral sites, this is a very big possibility with the league wanting to expand and all.

milkman
01-14-2011, 03:25 PM
I think it has to be an even number. Owners would be pissed if they only got 8 home games while other teams got 9.

17 wouldn't work as you would have some teams with 8 home and others with 9.

Just rotate it year to year, or select a few cities to host a neutral field game.

DenverDanChiefsFan
01-14-2011, 03:26 PM
I still think the 18 game season is the bargaining chip the league is using to get a rookie salary cap.

milkman
01-14-2011, 03:30 PM
I still think the 18 game season is the bargaining chip the league is using to get a rookie salary cap.

I don't believe that's the case at all.

It's the bargaining chip they're using to get the union to compromise on revenue sharing.

The players believe almost as strongly as the owners that there needs to be a rookie wage scale in place.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-14-2011, 03:32 PM
I would be against this, but I'd rather have more teams in the playoffs than an 18 game regular season schedule.

milkman
01-14-2011, 03:34 PM
I would be against this, but I'd rather have more teams in the playoffs than an 18 game regular season schedule.

Too many teams in the playoffs already.

Old Dog
01-14-2011, 03:35 PM
The players believe almost as strongly as the owners that there needs to be a rookie wage scale in place.

I read something Fujita said a few days ago that didn't necessarily support the rookie wage scale. Something to the extent of, "They need to get better scouting departments".

sedated
01-14-2011, 03:37 PM
I think it has to be an even number. Owners would be pissed if they only got 8 home games while other teams got 9.

8 home, 8 away, and 1 at neutral site (since the NFL has such a hardon for games in London and other foreign cities, each team can have an equal share of jetlag)

milkman
01-14-2011, 03:39 PM
I read something Fujita said a few days ago that didn't necessarily support the rookie wage scale. Something to the extent of, "They need to get better scouting departments".

Kevin Mawae was talking on one of the ESPN Radio talk shows a few weeks back about the rookie salaries and the cap, and the affect it has on veterans losing jobs.

I've heard other interviews from players that all agree that rookie salaries have gotten out of control.

Old Dog
01-14-2011, 03:39 PM
I honestly don't give a hoot how they get it done, as long as they do.
The only thing I know is that if there is a lockout, I'm done and they can all (owners, players, and everyone associated with the NFL except the fans) can take a flying kiss at my hiney.
I would still watch on (non-ppv) tv, but wouldn't attend another game in person, let alone buy season tickets.

sedated
01-14-2011, 03:40 PM
I read something Fujita said a few days ago that didn't necessarily support the rookie wage scale. Something to the extent of, "They need to get better scouting departments".

that's pretty ignorant. Bradford was the best QB in last year's draft, and has been a great rookie, but that doesn't mean he was worth $50 million guaranteed.

What are they supposed to do, not pick any player if they don't feel anyone is worth the spot?

Old Dog
01-14-2011, 03:44 PM
that's pretty ignorant.

To clarify, that's not MY take, it's Fujita (and D. Foxworth)

From the ESPN article:
Fujita and Foxworth both are against the league's desire for some sort of rookie wage scale.

"It seems like the league is asking the union to bail them out because of some of their bad decisions and draft choices," Fujita said. "That's not our responsibility. We weren't the ones twisting their arms when they signed guys like ... JaMarcus Russell to those huge contracts."

Noted Foxworth: "They pay a lot of people a lot of money to scout, so the teams who keep ending up with busts might want to do a better job of selecting scouts and general managers."

beach tribe
01-14-2011, 03:49 PM
I still think the current format is the best. Pre-season games are great for giving players on the bubble a chance to earn a roster spot.

sedated
01-14-2011, 03:50 PM
To clarify, that's not MY take, it's Fujita (and D. Foxworth)

From the ESPN article:
Fujita and Foxworth both are against the league's desire for some sort of rookie wage scale.

"It seems like the league is asking the union to bail them out because of some of their bad decisions and draft choices," Fujita said. "That's not our responsibility. We weren't the ones twisting their arms when they signed guys like ... JaMarcus Russell to those huge contracts."

Noted Foxworth: "They pay a lot of people a lot of money to scout, so the teams who keep ending up with busts might want to do a better job of selecting scouts and general managers."

I didn't think it was yours, but its still stupid. what is the percentage increase on each draft slot each year? 5%?

it isn't about busts, its about someone being the highest paid player at his position without doing dick in the NFL. I don't care if its a can't-miss future HOF'r, he needs to prove it first. Those outrageous paydays for rookies are probably a contributing factor for the slackers like JaFatass.

beach tribe
01-14-2011, 03:55 PM
I didn't think it was yours, but its still stupid. what is the percentage increase on each draft slot each year? 5%?

it isn't about busts, its about someone being the highest paid player at his position without doing dick in the NFL. I don't care if its a can't-miss future HOF'r, he needs to prove it first. Those outrageous paydays for rookies are probably a contributing factor for the slackers like JaFatass.

And the best scouts in the world still whiff. There's just no way to tell how a guy will respond to the level of competition in the NFL.

philfree
01-14-2011, 03:56 PM
I don't mind the preseason games as a fan, I think they're needed to see what fringe players that will otherwise likely miss making a team may bring in game-action to push them over the top. As a STH though, I hate the idea of paying full price for a glorified practice.

I feel this way even though I'm not a STH anymore.

I think the NFL is wrong about fans not wanting preseason games.
Fans just don't want to pay full price for a practice game. That said the NFL must not be making a profit on those games or they wouldn't do away them.

PhilFree:arrow:

Rams Fan
01-14-2011, 03:58 PM
Can't they cut the preseason down to 3 games, and keep the 16 game schedule? Is there that much revenue in preseason? If there's a STL game during the season, can't they just make that the Governor's Cup, and skip the annual preseason Cup game? There are other teams that have annual trophy games, aren't there?

For instance, can't scrimmage games at MO West be televised, with revenue divided amongst the league?


That's what happened this year when the Rams and Chiefs played each other. There was no Governor's Cup

Chief Chief
01-14-2011, 04:23 PM
Try this on for size:

1 pre-season game
19 -- yes, 19 -- regular season games (the extra 3 being against teams within your division, i.e., KC would play SD 3 times each season)
Previous season's division winner and 2nd place finisher in division would get 9 home games; previous season's 3rd and 4th place finishers in division would get 10 home games
No more wild card teams; 1st & 2nd place finishers go to playoffs, resulting in those teams drawing extra post-season revenue (playoff share, share of TV/radio revenue, playoff merchandising revenue, etc.) to make up for the lost home game the next season
2 bye weeks
Increase the number of players on the active roster (55?/56?/more?) and the practice squad
Oh yeah: To limit some wear & tear on players, no OT games (games tied at end of 4th quarter are counted as ties)

Guru
01-14-2011, 04:35 PM
And the best scouts in the world still whiff. There's just no way to tell how a guy will respond to the level of competition in the NFL.

All the more reason for the rookie salary cap. It is complete and utter bullshit that a player can come into the league as the highest paid player at his position when he hasn't done a single thing to earn it. I still think contracts should be incentive laden.

Hydrae
01-14-2011, 05:13 PM
Try this on for size:

1 pre-season game
19 -- yes, 19 -- regular season games (the extra 3 being against teams within your division, i.e., KC would play SD 3 times each season)
Previous season's division winner and 2nd place finisher in division would get 9 home games; previous season's 3rd and 4th place finishers in division would get 10 home games
No more wild card teams; 1st & 2nd place finishers go to playoffs, resulting in those teams drawing extra post-season revenue (playoff share, share of TV/radio revenue, playoff merchandising revenue, etc.) to make up for the lost home game the next season
2 bye weeks
Increase the number of players on the active roster (55?/56?/more?) and the practice squad
Oh yeah: To limit some wear & tear on players, no OT games (games tied at end of 4th quarter are counted as ties)

So I assume no bye week for the playoffs, 8 teams per conference in the playoffs, 3 weeks of playoffs to whittle it down to the SB pairing.

We are looking at 25 weeks from week 1 to the Super Bowl (19 games, 2 byes, 3 playoff weeks, 1 SB) if there is no week off for the Pro Bowl like they are doing currently. I think I could live with a full 6 months of counting football. Those rosters would have to go up quite a bit though I would think to support that many more games.

Dylan
01-14-2011, 05:28 PM
The union that represents the players the National Football League Players Association wants the 112th Congress to help negotiate a labor contract with team owners. The contract is set to expire March 3, and at stake are the league's estimated $9 billion in annual revenue and hundreds of jobs, ranging from peanut hawkers to video-game makers.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/13/union-seeks-hail-mary-in-labor-talks/

Hydrae
01-14-2011, 05:34 PM
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/13/union-seeks-hail-mary-in-labor-talks/

Ok, that is just stupid. The Congress of the US of A should not be a mediator in labor negotiations. They have a couple of more important things to worry about and work on.

GloryDayz
01-14-2011, 05:43 PM
I'm OK with 18+2. I think the more the better. What's that for a player that had to play in a WC game, 24 games in a year?

JD10367
01-14-2011, 08:14 PM
The problem with the preseason is simple: the owners charge the fans full price for the tickets--most, if not all, forcing the season-ticket holders to buy both preseason games--with full knowledge that the fans are getting neither an official game nor NFL-quality play. IIRC they also don't pay the players the same money they do for regular-season games. And players hate it because if they get injured in preseason they're screwed. So, in the owner-player-fan triangle, when it comes to preseason games the owner fucks the other two big-time.

Not really sure why the owners would offer 16+2. They get nothing out of it. I could see them saying "18+2 or we keep the current 16+4". But 16+2 does nothing for them. Sure, they don't have to pay the players for those two preseason games, but that's chickenfeed compared to what they fuck the ticket holders for.

I think they should go to more scrimmages, which Belichick likes to do. This year the Pats scrimmaged against the Saints. It's not quite a preseason game, but it gives players a chance to hit people other than their teammates, coaches can evaluate better, the fans get a summertime taste of watching an opponent, etc.,. It's pretty cool.

Or, here's a novel idea: lower the ticket prices for preseason games, and stop forcing season-ticket holders to buy them.

Guru
01-14-2011, 08:17 PM
The problem with the preseason is simple: the owners charge the fans full price for the tickets--most, if not all, forcing the season-ticket holders to buy both preseason games--with full knowledge that the fans are getting neither an official game nor NFL-quality play. IIRC they also don't pay the players the same money they do for regular-season games. And players hate it because if they get injured in preseason they're screwed. So, in the owner-player-fan triangle, when it comes to preseason games the owner ****s the other two big-time.

Not really sure why the owners would offer 16+2. They get nothing out of it. I could see them saying "18+2 or we keep the current 16+4". But 16+2 does nothing for them. Sure, they don't have to pay the players for those two preseason games, but that's chickenfeed compared to what they **** the ticket holders for.

I think they should go to more scrimmages, which Belichick likes to do. This year the Pats scrimmaged against the Saints. It's not quite a preseason game, but it gives players a chance to hit people other than their teammates, coaches can evaluate better, the fans get a summertime taste of watching an opponent, etc.,. It's pretty cool.

Or, here's a novel idea: lower the ticket prices for preseason games, and stop forcing season-ticket holders to buy them.The only problem with that is that if the owners don't force the pre season games on the season ticket holders the stadium would be even more empty AND they would have less money lining their pockets.

Count Zarth
01-14-2011, 08:19 PM
18+2, if it goes into effect, will go down as one of the worst ideas the NFL ever had.

After scads of late-season injuries I bet it's changed back within five years.

I like 16+2. It will force coaches to play starters more and lead to more interesting preseason games.

Guru
01-14-2011, 08:22 PM
18+2, if it goes into effect, will go down as one of the worst ideas the NFL ever had.

After scads of late-season injuries I bet it's changed back within five years.

I like 16+2. It will force coaches to play starters more and lead to more interesting preseason games.

I bet they said that when they expanded from 14 to 16 as well.

Guru
01-14-2011, 08:23 PM
What is really stupid is the fact they would still start the season the weekend after labor day with the 18+2 which would push the superbowl back 2 additional weeks minimum.

JD10367
01-14-2011, 08:28 PM
The only problem with that is that if the owners don't force the pre season games on the season ticket holders the stadium would be even more empty AND they would have less money lining their pockets.

I don't think so. Not in this era, where the NFL is at an all-time high in popularity.

I don't know what you guys are paying but, here in New England, it's roughly $69 for third-tier nosebleeds, $129 for mid-level, and over $160 for lower-level. Yes, I know the Patriots have one of, if not THE, highest-priced tickets in the NFL. But let's use these numbers for the sake of argument. If the owners are seriously willing to cut the preseason games from 4 to 2 then they're willing to cut their revenue in half, right? That could also be accomplished by keeping the 4 preseason games and simply cutting the ticket prices in half. If they stopped forcing the season-ticket holders to buy them, and put them on sale for $39.50, $64.50, and $80, they'd make the same money for two home preseason games that they would make with one (under their 16+2 idea). But the ticket-buyers would be much happier. Not to mention they'd still have two games instead of one to sell their $6 beers and $4 pretzels at.

tk13
01-14-2011, 08:30 PM
Screw it. Let's go to a 32 game schedule.

"Welcome to Arrowhead! Today a playoff spot is on the line as Tyler Palko, Jackie Battle and the Chiefs take on Kyle Boller, Michael Bennett, and the Oakland Raiders!"

JD10367
01-14-2011, 08:32 PM
I bet they said that when they expanded from 14 to 16 as well.

Exactly. And there are various things they can do to combat the "omigod everyone's gonna get injured" crappola. First off, by switching from 16+4 to 18+2 you're keeping the same number of games played. Second, they could make a few tweaks to the roster rules (e.g. go from 53 to 55 and do away with the game-day inactives). Last, but not least, they could tweak the IR rules in a way which benefits the players, fans, AND the game. Instead of this "you're injured, you go on IR, you're gone for the season" bullshit, have more of a "15 day DL" like they do in baseball. It's ridiculous that a player gets injured in preseason and they have to IR him for the year even though it's quite possible he's going to be healed up and ready to play by Thanksgiving. With a more flexible IR system it would give you more players later in the year than you have now. They could also expand the practice squad and tweak those rules, too.

milkman
01-14-2011, 08:33 PM
The only problem with that is that if the owners don't force the pre season games on the season ticket holders the stadium would be even more empty AND they would have less money lining their pockets.

Play preseason games in small nearby cities.

Most of the teams set up training camp on small college campuses.

Play the preseason games at their facilities.

Coach
01-14-2011, 08:47 PM
Play preseason games in small nearby cities.

Most of the teams set up training camp on small college campuses.

Play the preseason games at their facilities.

That's a good argument for helping the town/small nearby cities economy. On the other hand, you lose possible revenue from the NFL's hometown.

I can't see the owners going for that, not to mention the loss of parking fees and concession fees as well.

dj56dt58
01-14-2011, 09:04 PM
Ok, that is just stupid. The Congress of the US of A should not be a mediator in labor negotiations. They have a couple of more important things to worry about and work on.

normally I'd agree, but 9 billion dollars can have a big effect on the economy

Bewbies
01-14-2011, 09:12 PM
Go 17 and 2 with two bye weeks and an expanded roster with 55 active players.

This is what they should do, with that extra 'odd' game played at a neutral site. Whether overseas or in college stadiums this would be awesome.

For example....

Steelers v Eagles at Penn State
Bears v Colts at Notre Dame
Raiders v Ravens at Guantanamo Bay or a different high security prison?

Rain Man
01-14-2011, 10:20 PM
they should go with 18 games but no player is allowed to play more than 14. there'd be stratgies each week about who to sit, there'd be fewer games with big underdogs, there'd be less salary conflict, there'd be good development of young players,and there'd be less pressure on players to play hurt.
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Rain Man
01-14-2011, 10:22 PM
This is what they should do, with that extra 'odd' game played at a neutral site. Whether overseas or in college stadiums this would be awesome.

For example....

Steelers v Eagles at Penn State
Bears v Colts at Notre Dame
Raiders v Ravens at Guantanamo Bay or a different high security prison?

that's actually a great idea. you could bring back barnstorming through smaller cities.
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman
01-15-2011, 07:27 PM
This is what they should do, with that extra 'odd' game played at a neutral site. Whether overseas or in college stadiums this would be awesome.

For example....

Steelers v Eagles at Penn State
Bears v Colts at Notre Dame
Raiders v Ravens at Guantanamo Bay or a different high security prison?

They want to play some international games, these could be the neutral site games.

And rather than moving a team to LA, just schedule 16 neutral site games there.