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View Full Version : Football Is Belichik's ego out of control?


B_Ambuehl
01-17-2011, 09:43 AM
I get the feeling the last few years the man has taken his opinion of his own ability too far and it really shows in the playoffs against good teams. New England has been pounded and dominated the last 2 years against less than stellar opposition.

when you look at the Belichik approach to teambuilding it's obvious he wants 3 things:

1. He doesn't want to pay anybody

2. He doesn't want to deal with distractions

3. He'd rather win with overachievers who won't question anything than talented players who might be apt to open their mouths.

Take this years draft and personnel moves. He likely knew Moss's days were numbered but he still passed on every available upper tier receiving threat. Can you tell me New England's offense couldn't use a Dez Bryant? I believe his receivers had 1 catch yesterday. Also look at his outside pass rushers. In the last 2 years New England has passed on countless quality pass rushers in the draft, in favor of lugs like Jermaine Cunningham. They didn't have a single sack on the QB yesterday and that's inexcusable considering the quantity of draft picks they've had the last few years.

Belchik seems to forget he was able to win superbowls because he had playmakers like Corey Dillon, Richard Seymour, and Rodney Harrison - 3 of the better players and 3 of the more explosive personalities in the league.

Playing with a team full of choirboys next to a hall of fame QB might get you into the playoffs consistently, but to win you need playmakers.

DA_T_84
01-17-2011, 09:47 AM
I get the feeling the last few years the man has taken his opinion of his own ability too far and it really shows in the playoffs against good teams. New England has been pounded and dominated the last 2 years against less than stellar opposition.

when you look at the Belichik approach to teambuilding it's obvious he wants 3 things:

1. He doesn't want to pay anybody

2. He doesn't want to deal with distractions

3. He'd rather win with overachievers who won't question anything than talented players who might be apt to open their mouths.

Take this years draft and personnel moves. He likely knew Moss's days were numbered but he still passed on every available upper tier receiving threat. Can you tell me New England's offense couldn't use a Dez Bryant? I believe his receivers had 1 catch yesterday. Also look at his outside pass rushers. In the last 2 years New England has passed on countless quality pass rushers in the draft, in favor of lugs like Jermaine Cunningham. They didn't have a single sack on the QB yesterday and that's inexcusable considering the quantity of draft picks they've had the last few years.

Belchik seems to forget he was able to win superbowls because he had playmakers like Corey Dillon, Richard Seymour, and Rodney Harrison - 3 of the better players and 3 of the more explosive personalities in the league.

Playing with a team full of choirboys next to a hall of fame QB might get you into the playoffs consistently, but to win you need playmakers.

This was a divisional rival game, and it was a 7 point difference. They did not get "pounded and dominated" The Chiefs got "pounded and dominated" by the filthy Ravens.

DaKCMan AP
01-17-2011, 09:52 AM
He coached the team to a 14-2 record and lost by 7 points in the playoffs to a team with whom they split in the regular season. Really?

B_Ambuehl
01-17-2011, 09:53 AM
I consider the game a pounding even though it was only 7 points on the scoreboard. It wasn't that close. Even at 7 points they were favored by 9 and had a 17 point swing.

But, the point is as Belichiks gotten older his approach to personnel has become even more dramatically "Patriot Way" and that coincides with 2 straight playoff poundings. It's only natural one would question what he's doing differently now then he was several years ago and I believe it's fairly obvious. He thinks he's bigger than the game. He thinks his approach is bigger than the game and thinks he can win without playmakers. Well, he can't.

WebGem
01-17-2011, 09:53 AM
This was a divisional rival game, and it was a 7 point difference. They did not get "pounded and dominated" The Chiefs got "pounded and dominated" by the filthy Ravens.

For the most part I'd disagree with your post. The scoreboard was not reflective of how close the game was. The Jets did pretty much pound and dominate them. They proved they were a better team yesterday, and it really wasn't a close game.

Brock
01-17-2011, 09:56 AM
Certainly a more talented receiver would have helped yesterday, and they got zero pressure on Sanchez. But they still should have beaten the Jets pretty handily, based on what they did this season. They just came out flat.

The Bad Guy
01-17-2011, 09:58 AM
Shocker this comes from Ambuehl. It's like the rest of the world watches one thing, and he sees the exact opposite. It's like he has mental beer goggles.

Frazod
01-17-2011, 10:03 AM
I doubt if his ego's too out of control at the moment.

salame
01-17-2011, 10:13 AM
lol wut
http://www.mileanhour.com/files/2010/11/chicken-lost-my-leg-nom.jpg

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2011, 10:17 AM
One of the most devastating things for NE is that they've never been able to identify talent at WR, RB, or OLB through the draft.

The defensive scheme is starting to show its age, and their desire to stay with DE-sized OLBs in a league where there is more and more speed seems anachronistic.

Outside of Brady, on offense is there anyone out there who can go out and make a play? Welker might be the most reliable slot WR in the NFL, but at 9.9 YPC, he's not exactly breaking games open.

I don't think you can rely on Jermaine Cunningham, Tully Banta-Cain, and Rob Ninkovich to supply your pass rush.

FAX
01-17-2011, 10:19 AM
Considering that the Patriots are coming of a dynasty-like run, yesterday's game should give us hope.

Pats lost at home. Chiefs lost at home.
Pats looked inept. Chiefs looked inept.
Pats passing game sucked. Chiefs passing game sucked.
Pats dropped balls. Chiefs dropped trou.
Pats made mistakes. Chiefs made poo poo on 50 yard line.

FAX

mcaj22
01-17-2011, 10:19 AM
good thing they have 3-094-584294 draft picks this year to stock pile and fix these mistakes if needed

B_Ambuehl
01-17-2011, 10:21 AM
One of the most devastating things for NE is that they've never been able to identify talent at WR, RB, or OLB through the draft.

The defensive scheme is starting to show its age, and their desire to stay with DE-sized OLBs in a league where there is more and more speed seems anachronistic.

Outside of Brady, on offense is there anyone out there who can go out and make a play? Welker might be the most reliable slot WR in the NFL, but at 9.9 YPC, he's not exactly breaking games open.

I don't think you can rely on Jermaine Cunningham, Tully Banta-Cain, and Rob Ninkovich to supply your pass rush.



You're exactly right and I think it's more Belichik doesn't want to deal with the talent or pay the talent than it is his inability to identify it. He's run 2 hall of famers off his team in 2 years and traded into the 2nd round about 50 times.

DA_T_84
01-17-2011, 10:28 AM
For the most part I'd disagree with your post. The scoreboard was not reflective of how close the game was. The Jets did pretty much pound and dominate them. They proved they were a better team yesterday, and it really wasn't a close game.

No.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2011, 10:33 AM
I don't know about that. There are plenty of talented guys who STFU and produce (we picked one at 5 this year). I really think that what he wants from his scheme makes it much harder to get the kind of pressure you need on the QB.

If you look at all of the pass rushing OLBs who fit the size requirements they look for, none of those guys ever do much of anything in coverage

salame
01-17-2011, 10:42 AM
he's used to having really solid safety play in his defenses though

suzzer99
01-17-2011, 10:44 AM
His ego isn't out of control. The Jets just made more plays. You have to make plays in the playoffs. And they just made more of them. It's as simple as that. But give credit to the Jets. They're a good football team. They made more plays yesterday. They did the things you have to do to win. You can't win if you don't do the things you have to do to win. And they did them. It's as simple as that.

-Belichick

JD10367
01-17-2011, 10:46 AM
His ego is out of control if you're referring to the stupid fucking fake punt which cost them 7 points. They punt that ball and probably go into halftime 7-3, not down 14-3. That stupid coaching decision, and Brady playing average and throwing that pick, is what ultimately cost them the ballgame (as did the O-line once again deciding to suck at the worst point in the season a la the 2007 SB, and the defense's inability to stop the Jets when the Pats got it to 14-11).

But that was a brainfart, not an indication of an out-of-control ego. Belichick has done a great job for a decade now. They're always above .500 and challenging for the division title, and have made the playoffs more often than not. This season he took a team most figured for 8-10 wins at best, in a rebuilding year with the youngest defense in the league, two rookies at tight end, and two who-dats at running back (BJGE and Woodhead), and won 14 games, beating a shitload of playoff-bound and playoff-caliber teams. Did he shit his pants yesterday? Yes. Does it irritate the fuck out of me that for two seasons in a row his team wasn't prepared for the playoffs? Yes. Does that mean his "ego is out of control"? Uh, no. He's shown that his way works, season in and season out.

suzzer99
01-17-2011, 10:48 AM
The fake punt would have worked if Chung keeps his eye on the ball and makes a pretty easy move on Smith. Then it would have been Beli-genius. And possibly a different ball-game.

Over-Head
01-17-2011, 10:56 AM
You're exactly right and I think it's more Belichik doesn't want to deal with the talent or pay the talent than it is his inability to identify it. He's run 2 hall of famers off his team in 2 years and traded into the 2nd round about 50 times.
Yep, and he continualy proves it.
We spent 60 mill for a 3 year flop, he spent that for a super bowl.
Personally all these 1st round "better than Montana" (if you will) fresh outa school kids aint worth the coin their being given. Almost the same thing Al had going on for years then figured he should go waste a gazillion dollars paying guys like Woodson, Bush, or many others over the past 5 years to learn the game and pissem off enough to leave.
Al was always the master of getting that last 1-2 years out of cast offs, like Plunket, and making them love the game.
It seems Bilichik has started mastering the art of both.
Grab a pizzed off Vet at basment cost, then add a fantastic Blue chip 2nd rounder who just missed the first round.
Al got 3 rings doing it...just sayen

sedated
01-17-2011, 11:12 AM
this was essentially a rebuilding year for NE. they will be scary the next few years if they can rebuild that D with all their high draft picks coming up (what's the number, 6 picks in the top 70?)

suzzer99
01-17-2011, 11:45 AM
Monata?

keg in kc
01-17-2011, 11:51 AM
Has Belichick's ego ever been in control?

KCrockaholic
01-17-2011, 11:53 AM
His ego is out of control if you're referring to the stupid ****ing fake punt which cost them 7 points. They punt that ball and probably go into halftime 7-3, not down 14-3. That stupid coaching decision, and Brady playing average and throwing that pick, is what ultimately cost them the ballgame (as did the O-line once again deciding to suck at the worst point in the season a la the 2007 SB, and the defense's inability to stop the Jets when the Pats got it to 14-11).

But that was a brainfart, not an indication of an out-of-control ego. Belichick has done a great job for a decade now. They're always above .500 and challenging for the division title, and have made the playoffs more often than not. This season he took a team most figured for 8-10 wins at best, in a rebuilding year with the youngest defense in the league, two rookies at tight end, and two who-dats at running back (BJGE and Woodhead), and won 14 games, beating a shitload of playoff-bound and playoff-caliber teams. Did he shit his pants yesterday? Yes. Does it irritate the **** out of me that for two seasons in a row his team wasn't prepared for the playoffs? Yes. Does that mean his "ego is out of control"? Uh, no. He's shown that his way works, season in and season out.

Guess what? Belichick didn't even call that fake punt.

morphius
01-17-2011, 11:53 AM
We also must take in account that he can't hold onto good coordinators and is always having to adjust there. That has to take a toll on a team.

B_Ambuehl
01-17-2011, 11:58 AM
The same argument could be made for the way Belichik deals with coordinators.

When was the last time he brought in an established coordinator or position coach to do anything?

When most teams need a coordinator they bring in someone from outside the organization that's already established. Belichik does ALL his hiring from within which gives off the vibe that he thinks he and his organization are better than everyone else.

Brock
01-17-2011, 11:59 AM
When most teams need a coordinator they bring in someone from outside the organization that's already established. Belichik does ALL his hiring from within which gives off the vibe that he thinks he and his organization are better than everyone else.

How many organizations in the NFL are better than the Patriots? 2, maybe, at most?

alpha_omega
01-17-2011, 12:10 PM
He seemed pretty humble during the post-game interview.

DA_T_84
01-17-2011, 12:17 PM
Monata?

Tony Monata.

B_Ambuehl
01-17-2011, 12:37 PM
How many organizations in the NFL are better than the Patriots? 2, maybe, at most?

It's been 4 years since they won a playoff game. More than 2 teams have had better success in recent history. When the Pats were winning superbowls they were running their team much more like other teams do. All the Belichik way stuff hasn't paid off where it counts.

Brock
01-17-2011, 12:50 PM
It's been 4 years since they won a playoff game. More than 2 teams have had better success in recent history. When the Pats were winning superbowls they were running their team much more like other teams do. All the Belichik way stuff hasn't paid off where it counts.

What are those more than 2 teams that have had better success in recent history? The Steelers are probably a better overall organization. What other teams are a more consistent contender than the Patriots?

B_Ambuehl
01-17-2011, 12:58 PM
If you consider winning in the playoffs a true measure of success than any team that's won a playoff game since '07 has had more recent success than Belichik.

Steelers
Ravens
Jets
Colts
Chargers
Saints
Cardinals
Packers
Cowboys
Bears
Vikings
Seahawks (lol)

You get the point.

Brock
01-17-2011, 01:02 PM
If you consider winning in the playoffs a true measure of success than any team that's won a playoff game since '07 has had more recent success than Belichik.

Steelers
Ravens
Jets
Colts
Chargers
Saints
Cardinals
Packers
Cowboys
Bears
Vikings
Seahawks (lol)

You get the point.

You're seriously going to call all of those organizations better than the Patriots? Ha ha, okay.

GloryDayz
01-17-2011, 01:03 PM
I'm not sure about Bill himself, but his wardrobe sure is!!!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1OMiSrEJXnY/RugWmjFnoXI/AAAAAAAADyc/OG48qioSXBc/s400/bill+belichick.jpg

Rausch
01-17-2011, 01:09 PM
LOST...

B_Ambuehl
01-17-2011, 01:15 PM
You're seriously going to call all of those organizations better than the Patriots? Ha ha, okay.

They've been more successful where it counts...on the football field in the playoffs.

The Pats media popularity and regular season success haven't transferred to beating good teams in the playoffs in recent history and I think that's largely explained in the OP. Belichik's outlier approach in player personnel and staffing appear to be holding the football team back.

Brock
01-17-2011, 01:18 PM
They've been more successful where it counts...on the football field in the playoffs.

The Pats media popularity and regular season success haven't transferred to beating good teams in the playoffs in recent history and I think that's largely explained in the OP. Belichik's outlier approach in player personnel and staffing appear to be holding the football team back.

Yeah, holding them back by winning the division like 9 out of the past 10 years. They're serious contenders every year by definition. Good grief, you're being ridiculous.

Fruit Ninja
01-17-2011, 01:20 PM
He coached the team to a 14-2 record and lost by 7 points in the playoffs to a team with whom they split in the regular season. Really?

Not to mention this was their rebuilding year and they went 14-2. Patriots fans can fucking fuck off and die.

InChiefsHell
01-17-2011, 01:28 PM
So...the Pats won 14 games this year, and lost in the playoffs...yeah...they suck. Bellicheck should be fired...


...what the hell? I'd kill for that kind of success. The Pats are the model for the rest of the NFL. The fact that they don't win the Superbowl every year is now a standard for whether or not the coach is any good...is...ridiculous.

Rausch
01-17-2011, 01:36 PM
They've been more successful where it counts...on the football field in the playoffs.

LOST...

Dave Lane
01-17-2011, 01:48 PM
Just for the record if you decide to cut him loose, we'll take him. I like Haley a lot, but not that much.

His ego is out of control if you're referring to the stupid ****ing fake punt which cost them 7 points. They punt that ball and probably go into halftime 7-3, not down 14-3. That stupid coaching decision, and Brady playing average and throwing that pick, is what ultimately cost them the ballgame (as did the O-line once again deciding to suck at the worst point in the season a la the 2007 SB, and the defense's inability to stop the Jets when the Pats got it to 14-11).

But that was a brainfart, not an indication of an out-of-control ego. Belichick has done a great job for a decade now. They're always above .500 and challenging for the division title, and have made the playoffs more often than not. This season he took a team most figured for 8-10 wins at best, in a rebuilding year with the youngest defense in the league, two rookies at tight end, and two who-dats at running back (BJGE and Woodhead), and won 14 games, beating a shitload of playoff-bound and playoff-caliber teams. Did he shit his pants yesterday? Yes. Does it irritate the **** out of me that for two seasons in a row his team wasn't prepared for the playoffs? Yes. Does that mean his "ego is out of control"? Uh, no. He's shown that his way works, season in and season out.

Easy 6
01-17-2011, 06:46 PM
I've never been his biggest fan, but if his head was that swollen he'd have never been so cordial to Ryan after the game.

His team got whupped & he showed some class about it.

KCBOSS1
01-17-2011, 07:26 PM
I love Bill Belichick. I think that pro athletes are rediculously overpaid, super consumed, rediculous distractions and open their mouths way too much. Old School; makes me like him more than ever. Greatest coach of all time

chiefzilla1501
01-17-2011, 07:36 PM
Yikes. Full of fail. First of all, the Pats are still a very good franchise. They made the Super Bowl only three years ago and went 14-2 this season. Second of all, the overachievers are the guys who carried the team that far. They're not the problem. The problem is that the Pats for years have been worried about plugging in talent gaps by drafting for need (like drafting Maroney and Chad Jackson) and bringing in shitty leaders like Adalius Thomas and Randy Moss.

The Pats had their first good draft in ages last year. If they have a good draft in 2011 with their gajillion picks, that team is going to be downright scary. What you fail to mention is that the team is kind of rebuilding. You just wouldn't know it, because Brady has the ability to make an elevate the play of an otherwise average team.

ChiefsNow
01-17-2011, 07:54 PM
I will bet the Patriots hate having the first round bye.

Count Zarth
01-17-2011, 07:59 PM
I will bet the Patriots hate having the first round bye.

It has nothing to do with that.

They flat got beat by a better, more talented team.

B_Ambuehl
01-17-2011, 07:59 PM
The Pats would likely be a lot better off if they hadn't run good players off the football team (Seymour, Moss), hadn't tried to outsmart theirselves with draft picks (passing up legit talent for a plethora of average 2nd round picks), plugged holes on the team with legit NFL talent (a RB tandem of Green-Ellis and Woodhead is a travesty with all the 1st day picks they've had lately), and filled coaching holes on the football team with legit NFL coaching talent (WTF is Matt Patricia? - Do they even have an OC?).

In summary, it's genius if it works but I see a clear trend since '07 of Belichik doing things completely different than any other NFL team, completely different than he used to, and thus far the trend has been negative where it counts. The media wants to crown Belichik king for what he did from 2000-2004, and deservedly so, but the modus operandi of the football team was considerably different then. Al Davis used to be pretty good too before he went batshit crazy.

JD10367
01-17-2011, 08:14 PM
The Pats would likely be a lot better off if they hadn't run good players off the football team (Seymour, Moss), hadn't tried to outsmart theirselves with draft picks (passing up legit talent for a plethora of average 2nd round picks), plugged holes on the team with legit NFL talent (a RB tandem of Green-Ellis and Woodhead is a travesty with all the 1st day picks they've had lately), and filled coaching holes on the football team with legit NFL coaching talent (WTF is Matt Patricia? - Do they even have an OC?).

In summary, it's genius if it works but I see a clear trend since '07 of Belichik doing things completely different than any other NFL team, completely different than he used to, and thus far the trend has been negative where it counts. The media wants to crown Belichik king for what he did from 2000-2004, and deservedly so, but the modus operandi of the football team was considerably different then. Al Davis used to be pretty good too before he went batshit crazy.

Just wondering... are you always this stupid around here, or is it just this topic?

You: "THE SKY IS PURPLE!! DON'T YOU ALL THINK THE SKY IS PURPLE??!?!"
Everyone: "No. You're dumb."
You: "NO, REALLY!! IT'S FUCKING PURPLE, I'M TELLING YOU!!11!!1"

chiefzilla1501
01-17-2011, 08:19 PM
The Pats would likely be a lot better off if they hadn't run good players off the football team (Seymour, Moss), hadn't tried to outsmart theirselves with draft picks (passing up legit talent for a plethora of average 2nd round picks), plugged holes on the team with legit NFL talent (a RB tandem of Green-Ellis and Woodhead is a travesty with all the 1st day picks they've had lately), and filled coaching holes on the football team with legit NFL coaching talent (WTF is Matt Patricia? - Do they even have an OC?).

In summary, it's genius if it works but I see a clear trend since '07 of Belichik doing things completely different than any other NFL team, completely different than he used to, and thus far the trend has been negative where it counts. The media wants to crown Belichik king for what he did from 2000-2004, and deservedly so, but the modus operandi of the football team was considerably different then. Al Davis used to be pretty good too before he went batshit crazy.

Actually, I thought that the past 5 years or so, Bellichick built an inconsistent winner by doing everything they didn't do in 2000-2004. Ironically, it's some of the same stuff you're criticizing him for. I thought 2010 was a return to the Patriot Way and it started with cutting Adalius and Randy Moss.

I don't think he's as good as he used to be. But 2010 seems like a year when they're bringing everything back on track.

FRCDFED
01-17-2011, 08:43 PM
The Pats would likely be a lot better off if they hadn't run good players off the football team (Seymour, Moss), hadn't tried to outsmart theirselves with draft picks (passing up legit talent for a plethora of average 2nd round picks), plugged holes on the team with legit NFL talent (a RB tandem of Green-Ellis and Woodhead is a travesty with all the 1st day picks they've had lately), and filled coaching holes on the football team with legit NFL coaching talent (WTF is Matt Patricia? - Do they even have an OC?).

In summary, it's genius if it works but I see a clear trend since '07 of Belichik doing things completely different than any other NFL team, completely different than he used to, and thus far the trend has been negative where it counts. The media wants to crown Belichik king for what he did from 2000-2004, and deservedly so, but the modus operandi of the football team was considerably different then. Al Davis used to be pretty good too before he went batshit crazy.
I watched a report on the Patriots (maybe Inside the NFL) where the commentator mentioned that the Patriots don't believe in paying rookies more than the best stars (usually the highest paid players) on the team. Whether or not you agree with this approach I would like to think that he is setting the example for how the NFL should be run as a whole. Rookies who have never proven themselves should not make more than the current best players on the team. Belicheck then relies on coaching to coach up the players that he does get in the later rounds. This puts more pressure on BB but you can't help but give him the utmost respect if this report were true. Players who play for him probably do as well considering they know they will be respected by the rookies.

WebGem
01-17-2011, 09:36 PM
A lot of people keep saying stuff about the Patriots not winning a title since Spygate. That is really irrelevant. Tom Brady is still one of the best ever, so is Bellichick. They were a dynasty, I don't think Spygate was anything tbh. But the one thing that I do think is that with that loss yesterday Bellichick is officially never going to be able to rightfully have his name put along side the likes of Lombardi/Walsh/Knoll. The recent playoff record is something that clearly separates them, especially with a couple of the recent losses being home games.

FRCDFED
01-17-2011, 09:41 PM
A lot of people keep saying stuff about the Patriots not winning a title since Spygate. That is really irrelevant. Tom Brady is still one of the best ever, so is Bellichick. They were a dynasty, I don't think Spygate was anything tbh. But the one thing that I do think is that with that loss yesterday Bellichick is officially never going to be able to rightfully have his name put along side the likes of Lombardi/Walsh/Knoll. The recent playoff record is something that clearly separates them, especially with a couple of the recent losses being home games.You'll never be able to convince me that every fucking team in the NFL was looking for ways to scout other teams. BB was just the one that got publicized by his former coordinator. Man-gina has proven he is a POS coach. Good luck on the unemployment line! I'll bet that after BB got caught there were a lot of films getting destroyed by other teams. BB has proven since, while under more scrutiny than any other coach, that his record is a product of good coaching and players making plays.

salame
01-17-2011, 10:44 PM
http://matilda-tuesday-s-my-fat-spouse-forum.2331443.n2.nabble.com/file/n3428119/slide_2324_29660_large.jpg

Over-Head
01-18-2011, 04:38 AM
I love Bill Belichick. I think that pro athletes are rediculously overpaid, super consumed, rediculous distractions and open their mouths way too much. Old School; makes me like him more than ever. Greatest coach of all time
THIS times 100

MikeDevito
01-18-2011, 04:47 AM
The pats ran a fake punt on Sunday because their staff started to panic. The showed many different looks and confused Brady

Jack
01-18-2011, 07:50 AM
I've often wondered what coaches whom many call genius would produce without stellar athletes. Without Brady, what kind of team with the pats be; Elway somewhere else and the donks would still be perennial doormats.

Seems that so much greatness that is put onto coaches is misplaced.

Gruden comes to mind, Billick (?). I think those two had more football smarts, even though for short durations. But they got the best of what they had. Not saying their teams had overachieving scrubs.

Jets took Brady out of the game for the most part and it is obvious what the results were.

Bill Parcells
01-18-2011, 07:56 AM
http://i55.tinypic.com/3492z4j.jpg

Bill Parcells
01-18-2011, 08:00 AM
I get the feeling the last few years the man has taken his opinion of his own ability too far and it really shows in the playoffs against good teams. New England has been pounded and dominated the last 2 years against less than stellar opposition.

when you look at the Belichik approach to teambuilding it's obvious he wants 3 things:

1. He doesn't want to pay anybody

2. He doesn't want to deal with distractions

3. He'd rather win with overachievers who won't question anything than talented players who might be apt to open their mouths.

Take this years draft and personnel moves. He likely knew Moss's days were numbered but he still passed on every available upper tier receiving threat. Can you tell me New England's offense couldn't use a Dez Bryant? I believe his receivers had 1 catch yesterday. Also look at his outside pass rushers. In the last 2 years New England has passed on countless quality pass rushers in the draft, in favor of lugs like Jermaine Cunningham. They didn't have a single sack on the QB yesterday and that's inexcusable considering the quantity of draft picks they've had the last few years.

Belchik seems to forget he was able to win superbowls because he had playmakers like Corey Dillon, Richard Seymour, and Rodney Harrison - 3 of the better players and 3 of the more explosive personalities in the league.

Playing with a team full of choirboys next to a hall of fame QB might get you into the playoffs consistently, but to win you need playmakers.

http://i54.tinypic.com/5p3ejm.jpg

Brock
01-18-2011, 09:21 AM
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DBOSHO
01-18-2011, 09:37 AM
Kick them around for as long as you can.

The patriots are going to love playing with those high draft picks.

B_Ambuehl
01-18-2011, 10:56 AM
They've had good draft picks the last 2 years too but they never use them to pick impact players. Look at all the talent Belichik has passed up.

I watched a report on the Patriots (maybe Inside the NFL) where the commentator mentioned that the Patriots don't believe in paying rookies more than the best stars (usually the highest paid players) on the team. Whether or not you agree with this approach I would like to think that he is setting the example for how the NFL should be run as a whole. Rookies who have never proven themselves should not make more than the current best players on the team. Belicheck then relies on coaching to coach up the players that he does get in the later rounds. This puts more pressure on BB but you can't help but give him the utmost respect if this report were true.

I absolutely believe this is the case BUT, you can't win without players. Belichik obviously thinks he's good enough that he can get slapdicks to defeat superstars, but he can't.

B_Ambuehl
01-21-2013, 02:20 AM
Posted via Mobile Device

B_Ambuehl
01-21-2013, 02:21 AM
LOL. Another year, another chance to watch Belichik get pounded by a legit playoff team.
Posted via Mobile Device

Count Zarth
01-21-2013, 02:27 AM
They flat got beat by a better, more talented team.

Wow it keeps happening.

CoMoChief
01-21-2013, 04:15 AM
LOL. Another year, another chance to watch Belichik get pounded by a legit playoff team.
Posted via Mobile Device

This team has been to how many AFC championship games in the last 12 years? The worst record they've had in the last 12 years is 9-7.

And fans from THIS FRANCHISE want to dog on him and say he sucks?
LMAO. I'll bash Scott Pioli and his version of what "The Patriot Way" is, but let's be real...the Patriot Way is Tom Brady.

Once that team loses Brady (to retirement/inj etc) they're going to be early 90's-like terrible.

Crush
01-21-2013, 05:17 AM
This team has been to how many AFC championship games in the last 12 years? The worst record they've had in the last 12 years is 9-7.

And fans from THIS FRANCHISE want to dog on him and say he sucks?
LMAO. I'll bash Scott ***** and his version of what "The Patriot Way" is, but let's be real...the Patriot Way is Tom Brady.

Once that team loses Brady (to retirement/inj etc) they're going to be early 90's-like terrible.

However, did you not feel that this was the beginning of the end? Tom Brady will be 36 next year. The magic is gone.

CoMoChief
01-21-2013, 05:37 AM
However, did you not feel that this was the beginning of the end? Tom Brady will be 36 next year. The magic is gone.

Not really....they very well may make the AFCC game again next season. But I mean the window is closing simply because of his age...but that's still a good team until his play starts to slip.

Will they make the SB? I dont know....odds are against them because it's hard to make it that far.

But yes he is getting old....his play hasn't slipped (yet). But he will never be traded...I think he retires a Patriot. Once he's gone Belichick would be smart to retire because those Patriot teams are going to be awful.

Ace Gunner
01-21-2013, 06:07 AM
Oh, I get it -- this is tard thread week at the planet.

memyselfI
01-21-2013, 06:49 AM
Is anyone still thinking it wasn't. SERIOUSLY????

Tuckdaddy
01-21-2013, 07:24 AM
Considering that the Patriots are coming of a dynasty-like run, yesterday's game should give us hope.

Pats lost at home. Chiefs lost at home.
Pats looked inept. Chiefs looked inept.
Pats passing game sucked. Chiefs passing game sucked.
Pats dropped balls. Chiefs dropped trou.
Pats made mistakes. Chiefs made poo poo on 50 yard line.

FAX

What dynasty? Losing does not make a dynasty. I guess tbe ravens have one too.

Tribal Warfare
01-21-2013, 07:25 AM
[Matt Damon voice]Thomas Brady [Matt Damon Voice]

Dayze
01-21-2013, 07:29 AM
[Matt Damon voice]Thomas Brady [Matt Damon Voice]

LMAO

Oh Snap
01-21-2013, 07:44 AM
He coached the team to a 14-2 record and lost by 7 points in the playoffs to a team with whom they split in the regular season. Really?

Okay, the broncos had the #1 seed in the AFC, and they were 13-3...and last night the final score was 28-13. Not 28-21!

Also, Tom Brady makes belichick look better than he really is. When Brady retires or begins to lose a few steps, belichick will be living on borrowed time. Just wait and see. He will return to form with what we saw in Cleveland.



Edit: fml I was responding to a post that was over a year old...

notorious
01-21-2013, 07:48 AM
Does anyone check OP dates anymore?

B_Ambuehl
01-21-2013, 01:53 PM
The point is the Pats should easily win the super bowl every yr if Belichik weren't hung up on himself and "The Patriot Way" Go back thru the last 5 yrs drafts and look at who hes picked and who he hasn't. Look at all the talent he's passed over. He's not that dumb, but he does think he's god. The basic theme that was evident even 3 yrs ago is that Belichik thinks he can win with slapdicks. He wants to win with slapdicks, which makes him look like the man.

But slapdicks generally don't get it done against good talent.

Jim Caldwell did everything he could to give the Pats the game yesterday, but the talent difference between NE and Baltimore was too great.

ThaVirus
01-21-2013, 02:03 PM
Are you making the argument that he purposely passes on talented players just to prove that he can win with scrubs?

saphojunkie
01-21-2013, 02:33 PM
God I'm so happy we have divorced ourselves from the Patriot Way. Now fucking cut Cassel and end this fiasco for good.

nicksdad
01-21-2013, 02:51 PM
yes he is arrogant BUT one of the reasons for the downturn are our boy pioli's HORRIBLE 2006-2008 drafts. as of 2005 the Pats were on top but were aging out, particularly on defense. scotty's useless drafts , at a time when replacements were needed , are a big reason why they have not won in years! add in his 2009 KC draft and you can see pure genius, can't you? the Pats drafts since pioli left have been MUCH better but still haven't closed the chest wound of pioli's last drafts.

mcaj22
01-21-2013, 03:14 PM
The point is the Pats should easily win the super bowl every yr if Belichik weren't hung up on himself and "The Patriot Way" Go back thru the last 5 yrs drafts and look at who hes picked and who he hasn't. Look at all the talent he's passed over. He's not that dumb, but he does think he's god. The basic theme that was evident even 3 yrs ago is that Belichik thinks he can win with slapdicks. He wants to win with slapdicks, which makes him look like the man.

But slapdicks generally don't get it done against good talent.

Jim Caldwell did everything he could to give the Pats the game yesterday, but the talent difference between NE and Baltimore was too great.

NE has 2 first rounders and a 2nd rounder at LB

1st rounder at DE
1st round DT/NT

1st and 2nd round CB and safety


Baltimore's best MLB is a undrafted MLBer
their best safety was Bernie Pollard
their CBs are fucking Cary Williams and Corey Graham, they benched their first round CB in Jimmy Smith to special teams and nickel duty.

....

tony77
01-21-2013, 03:20 PM
Yes, He knows hes nothing when brady retires.

suzzer99
01-21-2013, 03:27 PM
Belichik punted 3 times from inside the Ravens' 40. Those decisions probably cost his team more win equity than anything else he or his players did during that game. Naturally not one pundit has even mentioned it because it doesn't fit their canned storylines.

B_Ambuehl
01-21-2013, 04:00 PM
Are you making the argument that he purposely passes on talented players just to prove that he can win with scrubs?

Yes that's exactly right. Talent is not the most important thing to Belichik, doing it his way is. Name another team that won't draft a player just because they're represented by a certain agent? Most of the roster is comprised of either slapdicks or come via recommendations from his good ol' boy network (Urban Meyer at Florida for example). In the last 5 yrs the Pats have gone into EVERY draft with an average of at least 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. You could take the biggest idiot draftnick on this forum and give them 5 picks in the first 3 rounds over a 5 yr span of time and they'd have a hard time not having a better roster than what the myth of Belichik has put together in the same time span.

O.city
01-21-2013, 04:07 PM
The NE defense is loaded with early draft picks. It's not full of slapdicks.

Count Zarth
01-21-2013, 04:10 PM
The NE defense is loaded with early draft picks. It's not full of slapdicks.

They gave up 5.7 yards per play this season, good for 24th in the league. They're below average, and not even close to elite. Belichick has done a very poor job of finding top end talent and playmakers the last several years.

Brady can't cover every wart.

B_Ambuehl
01-21-2013, 04:23 PM
The NE defense is loaded with early draft picks. It's not full of slapdicks.

The last truly impact defender the Pats drafted was Mayo back in '08. With ~25 round 1-3 picks since '08 the pats haven't drafted another true impact defender since. They have a ton of mediocre guys like Jermaine Cunningham and Brandon Spikes from Belichiks good ol boy network but their best player (Wilfork) was drafted back in '04.

Everyone here loves to talk about the Chiefs '08 draft. Imagine going into every single draft with that number of good picks. That's pretty much the opportunity Belichik has every year and what he has to show for it is guys like Rob Ninkovich and Steve Gregory playing major roles.

Over that same time span he's hit on 2 offensive skill players in Gronkowski and Hernandez. Not a single above average receiver. Not a single above average running back.

O.city
01-21-2013, 04:25 PM
They gave up 5.7 yards per play this season, good for 24th in the league. They're below average, and not even close to elite. Belichick has done a very poor job of finding top end talent and playmakers the last several years.

Brady can't cover every wart.

Didn't say it was good. Just saying that they've spend alot of top draftpicks on it.


I'd take one of their ILB's if they wanna get rid of one. Hightower would be fine.

theelusiveeightrop
01-21-2013, 04:28 PM
Hard to think of anyone on the Patriots a team would want other than Brady, Gronk, and maybe Hernandez. Lack of talent, pure and simple.

chiefzilla1501
01-21-2013, 04:38 PM
The last truly impact defender the Pats drafted was Mayo back in '08. With ~25 round 1-3 picks since '08 the pats haven't drafted another true impact defender since. They have a ton of mediocre guys like Jermaine Cunningham and Brandon Spikes from Belichiks good ol boy network but their best player (Wilfork) was drafted back in '04.

Everyone here loves to talk about the Chiefs '08 draft. Imagine going into every single draft with that number of good picks. That's pretty much the opportunity Belichik has every year and what he has to show for it is guys like Rob Ninkovich and Steve Gregory playing major roles.

Over that same time span he's hit on 2 offensive skill players in Gronkowski and Hernandez. Not a single above average receiver. Not a single above average running back.

Hightower, Solder, Ridley/Vereen, Gronk, Hernandez, McCourty. Chandler Jones has upside. Added Talib off waivers. The team is a solid team all the way around. Of course their success post-Brady will be dependent on how good his replacement is, but that's sadly the new NFL. Every coach is going to be a product of the QB. Again, it will depend on how stubborn Bellichick is on applying the Parcells way to finding late round QB steals.

Dylan
01-21-2013, 04:44 PM
It has nothing to do with that.

They flat got beat by a better, more talented team.

+1,000 :thumb:

oh yeah, Gronk is like glass. Hernadez is proving to be sub-par without him.

However, every team has a glass player - the key - it is better not to pay them a lot of money when their rookie contract expires.

O.city
01-21-2013, 04:46 PM
Someone tweeted it last night and I'm not sure if it's on here or not, but it said the 9ers and Ravens play football like it was played pre Goddell rule monster shit.


I agree with that too.

Rugby Thompson
01-21-2013, 05:12 PM
Belichick is over rated, he's just like Pioli but a bit better but not by much.

Everything is so top secret with the organization

GloryDayz
01-21-2013, 05:42 PM
when you look at the Belichik approach to teambuilding it's obvious he wants 3 things:

1. He doesn't want to pay anybody

2. He doesn't want to deal with distractions

3. He'd rather win with overachievers who won't question anything than talented players who might be apt to open their mouths.

How are those bad? A bosses dream!

Deberg_1990
01-21-2013, 05:45 PM
heh, its interesting how everyone acts as if the Patriots are some awful team now. They have basically become the Yankees, Lakers, or Red Sox. Victims of their own success. I would kill for the Chiefs to have a run like they have had over the past 10 years.

Pestilence
01-21-2013, 06:40 PM
Hightower, Solder, Ridley/Vereen, Gronk, Hernandez, McCourty. Chandler Jones has upside. Added Talib off waivers. The team is a solid team all the way around. Of course their success post-Brady will be dependent on how good his replacement is, but that's sadly the new NFL. Every coach is going to be a product of the QB. Again, it will depend on how stubborn Bellichick is on applying the Parcells way to finding late round QB steals.

He said defense.

And with all of those picks.....he hasn't drafted one impactful WR for Brady.

The_Doctor10
01-21-2013, 06:46 PM
He said defense.

And with all of those picks.....he hasn't drafted one impactful WR for Brady.

No, he just drafted two monster TEs for him, and he probably realized that he can find smart, veteran receivers through FA and trade and spend his picks on players that don't come onto the market as often.

ThaVirus
01-21-2013, 06:47 PM
Someone tweeted it last night and I'm not sure if it's on here or not, but it said the 9ers and Ravens play football like it was played pre Goddell rule monster shit.


I agree with that too.

The smashmouth defenses perhaps, but offensively they're both pretty new age.

Sorter
01-21-2013, 07:00 PM
One of the most devastating things for NE is that they've never been able to identify talent at WR, RB, or OLB through the draft.

The defensive scheme is starting to show its age, and their desire to stay with DE-sized OLBs in a league where there is more and more speed seems anachronistic.

Outside of Brady, on offense is there anyone out there who can go out and make a play? Welker might be the most reliable slot WR in the NFL, but at 9.9 YPC, he's not exactly breaking games open.

I don't think you can rely on Jermaine Cunningham, Tully Banta-Cain, and Rob Ninkovich to supply your pass rush.

Niko and Chandler Jones (who was injured) are solid guys off the edge. Not top tier but solid.

They need to IMO upgrad significantly at corner whilst keeping Talib, draft Hunt who can rush the passer from the 3-tech, and get another pass rushing OLB.

Additionally, they need to send more than 4 guys consistently and in a more creative way.

HotCarl
01-21-2013, 07:05 PM
Every game in NE sold out since 1994... 151-57 in the regular season.... oooohyeah

O.city
01-21-2013, 07:07 PM
Niko and Chandler Jones (who was injured) are solid guys off the edge. Not top tier but solid.

They need to IMO upgrad significantly at corner whilst keeping Talib, draft Hunt who can rush the passer from the 3-tech, and get another pass rushing OLB.

Additionally, they need to send more than 4 guys consistently and in a more creative way.

Shut your mouth, I want Hunt in KC.

Sorter
01-21-2013, 07:16 PM
Shut your mouth, I want Hunt in KC.

Good god, I do too. My sig expresses how I feel about Geno + Hunt in the draft for KC.

Cmd'r&Chief
01-21-2013, 07:23 PM
Good god, I do too. My sig expresses how I feel about Geno + Hunt in the draft for KC.

Like a girl?

Sorter
01-21-2013, 07:26 PM
Like a girl?

Uhhh...duh?

chiefzilla1501
01-21-2013, 07:29 PM
Niko and Chandler Jones (who was injured) are solid guys off the edge. Not top tier but solid.

They need to IMO upgrad significantly at corner whilst keeping Talib, draft Hunt who can rush the passer from the 3-tech, and get another pass rushing OLB.

Additionally, they need to send more than 4 guys consistently and in a more creative way.

Hamas brings up a good point, though. I like that Bellichick is the only damn guy in the Parcells tree who seems to understand that the 2-gap 3-4 is outdated. So he moved to a 4-3, which was a good move. Putting Donta Hightower at OLB is a bit of a curious move. They essentially have 5 bigs, and Jerod Mayo isn't the fast kind of OLB they need to balance out that much big.

Hoover
01-21-2013, 07:30 PM
I give them props for getting to the AFC Championship game but that's because of Brady more than anything else. This team is a 6 win team once Brady hangs em up.

chiefzilla1501
01-21-2013, 07:31 PM
I give them props for getting to the AFC Championship game but that's because of Brady more than anything else. This team is a 6 win team once Brady hangs em up.

There are a lot of good coaches who aren't the same coach if you replace an elite QB with a bad one.

It all depends on a QB decision they haven't made yet. If they replace Brady with a good QB, they could be competitive regularly. If they don't, they probably won't be.

Sorter
01-21-2013, 07:32 PM
Hamas brings up a good point, though. I like that Bellichick is the only damn guy in the Parcells tree who seems to understand that the 2-gap 3-4 is outdated. So he moved to a 4-3, which was a good move. Putting Donta Hightower at OLB is a bit of a curious move. They essentially have 5 bigs, and Jerod Mayo isn't the fast kind of OLB they need to balance out that much big.

But they still 2-gap out of their 4-3.

Belichick is stubborn as hell.

O.city
01-21-2013, 07:33 PM
They don't really do a good job pressuring the QB from that 2 gap either.

Sorter
01-21-2013, 07:38 PM
They don't really do a good job pressuring the QB from that 2 gap either.

Ravens are the only team that 2-gap consistently from their base front and get pressure (the reason being that they utilize fire-zones off their base fronts).

chiefzilla1501
01-21-2013, 07:47 PM
But they still 2-gap out of their 4-3.

Belichick is stubborn as hell.

Here's a really, really interesting read on what Bellichick is doing. I had to look it up because I just don't know. But this makes perfect sense. They essentially rotate between a 2-gap, a 4-3 over, and a 4-3 under, often running multiple schemes at the same time.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7537225/bill-belichick-vince-wilfork-new-england-patriots-defense

Interesting idea. And you wonder if the Pats made any actual commitment to adding talent to the defense, if it could actually work. I'm more and more fascinated by defenses with versatility. As offenses try harder and harder to move to a quick, no huddle snap, the ability to run multiple sets out of the same personnel is very interesting. One of the reasons I'm a huge fan of the Gus Bradley defense.

Sorter
01-21-2013, 07:52 PM
Here's a really, really interesting read on what Bellichick is doing. I had to look it up because I just don't know. But this makes perfect sense. They essentially rotate between a 2-gap, a 4-3 over, and a 4-3 under, often running multiple schemes at the same time.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7537225/bill-belichick-vince-wilfork-new-england-patriots-defense

Interesting idea. And you wonder if the Pats made any actual commitment to adding talent to the defense, if it could actually work. I'm more and more fascinated by defenses with versatility. As offenses try harder and harder to move to a quick, no huddle snap, the ability to run multiple sets out of the same personnel is very interesting. One of the reasons I'm a huge fan of the Gus Bradley defense.

They 2-gap the most out of the 3 on base fronts, especially in games they consider serious.

It's totally fucking insane to me. For a HC who predicates scoring and aggressiveness on O as Belichick does, it is shocking to see how passive he is on D until very late, which teams pick up on.

B_Ambuehl
04-29-2013, 01:23 PM
I guess Belicheat's new goal is to show that Rutgers has the best talent in all of college football.

Sorter
04-29-2013, 01:53 PM
The Dobson, Boyce, Collins, and Buchannon picks were solid.

I really like the TJ Moe signing as well.

GoChargers
04-29-2013, 01:58 PM
I thought Belicheat once again had a mediocre draft full of reaches. That team is fucked when Brady retires.

And how much is Rutgers paying Belicheat to draft their whole roster?

WhiteWhale
04-29-2013, 02:10 PM
I've often wondered what coaches whom many call genius would produce without stellar athletes. Without Brady, what kind of team with the pats be; Elway somewhere else and the donks would still be perennial doormats.

No shit. This is a stupid thing to wonder, because coaches don't play. Players play. The smartest coach in the world NEEDS GOOD PLAYERS.

Seems that so much greatness that is put onto coaches is misplaced.

Giving any one person too much credit is misplaced. Giving full credit to a guy who isn't playing is just stupid.

Gruden comes to mind, Billick (?). I think those two had more football smarts, even though for short durations. But they got the best of what they had. Not saying their teams had overachieving scrubs.

So a coach (Gruden) who only goes after veteran journeyman QB's... and a coach that stuck with Kyle Boller for several years are the guys you point to? Really?

Jets took Brady out of the game for the most part and it is obvious what the results were.

The patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassel... and Cassel was throwing for 400+ yard games too. Think about that.

Besides that, what you're saying applies to every coach. Take away anyone's star QB and they're not going to be as good. Does that really make the coach some kind of fraud?

WhiteWhale
04-29-2013, 02:13 PM
They 2-gap the most out of the 3 on base fronts, especially in games they consider serious.

It's totally ****ing insane to me. For a HC who predicates scoring and aggressiveness on O as Belichick does, it is shocking to see how passive he is on D until very late, which teams pick up on.

Pats have a shit pass rush, and have for a few years.

Again, players play. If you don't have a pass rush, your defense will struggle. Schemes are over-rated. Smart and athletic players who can execute the scheme, whatever it is, weighs far heavier than the scheme itself.

Amnorix
04-29-2013, 02:44 PM
Besides that, what you're saying applies to every coach. Take away anyone's star QB and they're not going to be as good. Does that really make the coach some kind of fraud?


Not according to common CP wisdom. Around here:

Bill Walsh (coughMontanacough) = genius

Don Shula (coughUnitas/noSBwithMarino) = genius

Chuck Noll (coughridiculousroster/Bradshaw) = genius

Belichick = f'n moron whose overinflated reputation was solely made due to Tom Brady.

:shrug:


There's really only one coach in NFL history with multiple SB wins with average QBs, and that's Gibbs. But Gibbs won in an era when you could win with a great, great running game and a very good defense, which is what he built his teams on.

In fact, the Patriots SB teams were not Brady-driven passing attacks, but rather great defenses with very solid, mistake-free offenses. As Brady has become GREAT and the defenses have declined to average (or worse) the SBs have proven elusive.

Mecca
04-29-2013, 02:48 PM
Not according to common CP wisdom. Around here:

Bill Walsh (coughMontanacough) = genius

Don Shula (coughUnitas/noSBwithMarino) = genius

Chuck Noll (coughridiculousroster/Bradshaw) = genius

Belichick = f'n moron whose overinflated reputation was solely made due to Tom Brady.

:shrug:


There's really only one coach in NFL history with multiple SB wins with average QBs, and that's Gibbs. But Gibbs won in an era when you could win with a great, great running game and a very good defense, which is what he built his teams on.

In fact, the Patriots SB teams were not Brady-driven passing attacks, but rather great defenses with very solid, mistake-free offenses. As Brady has become GREAT and the defenses have declined to average (or worse) the SBs have proven elusive.
I think he's taking more flack for drafting like shit in several positions for a long time more than just being called an idiot.

Amnorix
04-29-2013, 03:35 PM
I think he's taking more flack for drafting like shit in several positions for a long time more than just being called an idiot.


The Patriots have drafted very poorly at the WR and secondary for a very long time now. There's no argument about that, and it has cost them dearly in the playoffs.

GordonGekko
04-29-2013, 03:38 PM
The Patriots have drafted very poorly at the WR and secondary for a very long time now. There's no argument about that, and it has cost them dearly in the playoffs.

Add to that, it gets marginally tougher when you are forced per league mandate, to not record other teams' practice sessions. Really tough to win in the playoffs, hell it's almost fair one could say, when you don't know exactly what the other team is going to do the majority of plays, agree?