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notorious
02-01-2011, 04:33 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-cnbcnflbankruptplayers013111

NFL players gone broke





By Shelly Gigante, Special for CNBC.com
Jan 31, 8:40 pm EST



Steve Young, the NFL needs you back.

Not so much on the Gridiron per se, though your legacy as a quarterback with the San Francisco 49ers will long be revered in the annals of football history, but as the voice of financial reason for dozens of players who can’t seem to manage their millions.

Indeed, Young, who earned his law degree between seasons during the 1990s and now serves as managing partner of a Utah-based venture-capital firm, is a rare example of post-career success.

Despite their median $900,000 annual salaries, a surprising number of NFL players (some estimate up to 80 percent) squander their fortunes in the years immediately following their retirement.

In 2010 alone, former Pittsburgh Steelers lineman Dermontti Dawson joined New York Jets backup QB Mark Brunell(notes), who is still on the field, in bankruptcy court.

But they are hardly alone. The NFL is replete with tales of financial fumbles.

In most cases, the players made bad investment choices, spent frivolously, fell victim to predatory advisors or assigned their less-than-qualified friends or family to handle their affairs.

Some also blame their risk-taking DNA, which is an asset on the field, but a liability when it comes to managing money.

But Susan Bradley, a certified financial planner and founder of the Sudden Money Institute, who works with the NFL to develop life training skills, says it’s a fate that would befall most anyone forced to manage overnight wealth.

“Do they have a problem managing money in their professional career? Sure, you would too,” she says, noting players have a narrow window of opportunity (usually just a few years) to earn enough to last a lifetime.

They also face significant pressure to lead a luxury lifestyle and have virtually no free time to focus on finances with the rigorous demands of professional sports.

Too true. But it’s a challenge most of us would love to tackle.

The following 10 NFL players – who lost it all at one point – unfortunately got sacked.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/41312370?slide=2

notorious
02-01-2011, 04:38 PM
Deuce McAllister made 70 Million......

Dermontti Dawson is 69 Million IN DEBT.......



:facepalm:


The list is going to be a lot longer in a few months if they don't get their heads out of their asses.

Bowser
02-01-2011, 04:38 PM
Brunell should sell Sanchez's booger on E-Bay for some extra cash.

notorious
02-01-2011, 04:43 PM
Brunell should sell Sanchez's booger on E-Bay for some extra cash.

RoR would get carpal tunnel syndrome bidding on that booger.

Count Alex's Losses
02-01-2011, 04:43 PM
Ouch.

Dermontti Dawson
The real estate recession hit Dermontti Dawson like, well, a linebacker. The one-time highest paid offensive lineman in Pittsburgh Steelers history, earning $4.2 million per year at the peak of his 13-year career, filed for Ch. 7 bankruptcy last year citing $69 million in debt.

Dawson’s money troubles primarily stem from his personal guaranty on a number of failed real estate ventures including shopping centers and single family home developments. His home and personal belongings, including watches, cars, jewelry and personal memorabilia, were auctioned off late last year, netting a reported $775,000.

Mr. Laz
02-01-2011, 04:47 PM
sucks for them but good for everyone else

The owners spend billions on players who in-turn flush that money down the drain into the economy.

Gracie Dean
02-01-2011, 04:55 PM
it’s a fate that would befall most anyone forced to manage overnight wealth.

I would like the chance to try that :rolleyes:

Crush
02-01-2011, 04:58 PM
Of course they went broke, cocaine and Latina models are not cheap.

Crush
02-01-2011, 05:00 PM
Of course, owners need to at least contribute 1% of their profits to the "Cocaine and Latina Models" fund. Will someone please think of the Tyler Palkos in the world.

DaneMcCloud
02-01-2011, 05:00 PM
These situations have more to do with the people they trust to help them manage their money, rather than the players themselves.

Hog Farmer
02-01-2011, 05:02 PM
What a bunch of losers . It's taking me 20 years to go broke !

Dicky McElephant
02-01-2011, 05:03 PM
These situations have more to do with the people they trust to help them manage their money, rather than the players themselves.

This.

notorious
02-01-2011, 05:08 PM
These situations have more to do with the people they trust to help them manage their money, rather than the players themselves.


A lot of their "investors" are there to screw them, aren't qualified, or they can't tell the players "no".


Seriously, how do you tell a player that's been able to get away with murder (literally in some cases) "no" when they want to buy a $25K watch or their 6th Bentley?


It all comes back to the man on top.

philfree
02-01-2011, 05:08 PM
The thinking of NFL players is flawed. They think they are supposed to only have to work a few years to support themselves and their families for a life time. They don't plan for another career after their playing days are over and that's not smart considering the average length of an NFL career.


If I recieved a windfall of a couple million dollars the first thing I'd do would be to put it in a high yield tax exempt fund.

How hard is it to advise someone to do that? That's it! I want to be an adviser to NFL players. All I want is a small percent of the proceeds.:D


PhilFree:arrow:

CaliforniaChief
02-01-2011, 05:09 PM
Let them pay.

notorious
02-01-2011, 05:12 PM
5 million a year isn't 5 million a year.


A lot of people don't realize that. Income Tax, Property Tax, Sales Tax, etc knock the final number down considerably.

Chiefs Rool
02-01-2011, 05:16 PM
don't buy $10 million homes and 300K watches and cars. I'm sure a millionaire could live quite comfortably in a home that's less than a million and drive a car thats less than 100K and not wear millions of dollars of jewlry

J Diddy
02-01-2011, 05:23 PM
5 million a year isn't 5 million a year.


A lot of people don't realize that. Income Tax, Property Tax, Sales Tax, etc knock the final number down considerably.

Isn't that why most of them live in FL, so they don't have to pay income taxes

notorious
02-01-2011, 05:25 PM
Isn't that why most of them live in FL, so they don't have to pay income taxes

State income tax. The Fed kicks the rich in the balls.

chiefzilla1501
02-01-2011, 05:26 PM
don't buy $10 million homes and 300K watches and cars. I'm sure a millionaire could live quite comfortably in a home that's less than a million and drive a car thats less than 100K and not wear millions of dollars of jewlry

Easier said than done.

I remember my first bonus was a measley few hundie. But I blew it the next day on surround sound speakers I probably didn't need at the time.

I didn't start saving in my 401(k) until I was about 28 or 29. In fact, this is the way the majority of the world works--they don't think about retirement until after they're 30. FOr NFL Players, that's too late. That's the end of their career.

I can't even imagine what that would be like to be making nothing and then all of a sudden have $10M a year to blow, without the maturity to understand how money works.

RedNeckRaider
02-01-2011, 05:30 PM
Fuckem~

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-01-2011, 05:31 PM
The players are getting taxed at a 33% rate for most of their income. Couple that with state taxes (in many cases), and agent fees, and they never see almost half of their (undeserved, anyway) salary.

Couple that with the pressure to help out friends, family members, and keep up with your peers, while also living in the fast lane, and you have a recipe for financial ruin.

I've said for a long time that the NFL or the PA should provide financial advisers for all active players that they have to meet with a certain number of times per year so that they can really see where their money is going, but also so that they can set up a financial plan for life after football.

Art Vader
02-01-2011, 05:32 PM
importing chicks is not cheap either

J Diddy
02-01-2011, 05:33 PM
The players are getting taxed at a 33% rate for most of their income. Couple that with state taxes (in many cases), and agent fees, and they never see almost half of their (undeserved, anyway) salary.

Couple that with the pressure to help out friends, family members, and keep up with your peers, while also living in the fast lane, and you have a recipe for financial ruin.

I've said for a long time that the NFL or the PA should provide financial advisers for all active players that they have to meet with a certain number of times per year so that they can really see where their money is going, but also so that they can set up a financial plan for life after football.

They've got help if they need it. What good would that do? I mean you can lead a horse to water...

Iowanian
02-01-2011, 05:33 PM
I'd feel a twinge of sympathy if nfl players hadn't had a free ride to a college degree, or if they didn't live like drunken assholes or surround themselves by worthless, money sucking mooches.

F them.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-01-2011, 05:40 PM
They've got help if they need it. What good would that do? I mean you can lead a horse to water...

What help do they currently have besides some rookie symposiums?

Oddly, despite using a cliche in your own reply, you seem to be unable to see the forest for the trees. I'm not absolving the players from responsibility.

DaneMcCloud
02-01-2011, 05:40 PM
It all comes back to the man on top.

And that is exactly why they all need to have competent money managers and financial advisers.

A guy that plays football for a living (or that earns six, seven, eight or nine figure salaries) should be concerned with their job first and foremost, not "learning" how to manage money, accumulate wealth, etc.

The reason why guys like Dawson, Brunell, John Brodie, etc. lost millions is because they got away from what they do best: Football. Instead, they decided to invest their cash without the benefit of experience, education, etc.

It happens every day in America, where somebody gets an idea that they think will be a great earner, but they end up losing their asses because they're clueless about the business they're starting.

These guys listed didn't lose their earnings because they bought too many Bentley's or watches. They lost their money because they ventured into unfamiliar territory without the aid of extremely successful people who've previously had enormous success in their respective fields.

chiefzilla1501
02-01-2011, 05:50 PM
They've got help if they need it. What good would that do? I mean you can lead a horse to water...

Everybody and their mother is willing to help you.

That's the tricky part. You have millions of people giving you good advice, close to millions of people trying to take advantage of you, and a few select people who give you good, honest advice and actually educate you about your financial decisions.

Good luck finding those few. I agree with Dane. There needs to be some way to get trusted financial advisors who not only get these guys to invest smarter, but also sit them down and create a long-term financial plan and encourage them to stick to it.

notorious
02-01-2011, 05:53 PM
I would like to see bankruptcy rates and how the NFL players compare to the normal Joe.

Crush
02-01-2011, 05:57 PM
And that is exactly why they all need to have competent money managers and financial advisers.

A guy that plays football for a living (or that earns six, seven, eight or nine figure salaries) should be concerned with their job first and foremost, not "learning" how to manage money, accumulate wealth, etc.

The reason why guys like Dawson, Brunell, John Brodie, etc. lost millions is because they got away from what they do best: Football. Instead, they decided to invest their cash without the benefit of experience, education, etc.

It happens every day in America, where somebody gets an idea that they think will be a great earner, but they end up losing their asses because they're clueless about the business they're starting.

These guys listed didn't lose their earnings because they bought too many Bentley's or watches. They lost their money because they ventured into unfamiliar territory without the aid of extremely successful people who've previously had enormous success in their respective fields.


Just a simple, "Hey wait a minute, are you sure that is a good idea?" probably would have saved at least 80%* of those who fall to the financial rock bottom.

* A number that I completely pulled out of my ass. Want to smell it? It smells like poorly-made tacos.

pkane
02-01-2011, 06:18 PM
Looking over the list of players the main issue would be bad investments, obviously, but a lot of them also wound up in jail or had drug issues.

Travis Henry needs to quit making babies, 11 children and $180,000 a year in child support and drugs, no wonder his ass his broke.

Sure-Oz
02-01-2011, 06:26 PM
These situations have more to do with the people they trust to help them manage their money, rather than the players themselves.
Reminds me of the beginning of Rocky 5

whoaskew
02-01-2011, 06:43 PM
Why is this surprising? They are no different than the rest of us whose expenses are 110% of our income.

My cousin plays in the NFL and odds are him and most of his teammates will be broke in a couple years just like most of the people reading this message will be broke in a couple years if they are not already.

Doctors are broke.
Dentists are broke.
Policemen are broke.
Secretaries are broke.
Interns are broke.

For most people, regardless of the size of their paycheck, they will still save the same percentage, which is usually 0%.

What I am more concerned about is the 66 year old person retiring this year who will receive $500 per month from social security to live on for the rest of their life, doesn't own a house, and only has $50 in savings.

People act like it is so unfathomable for a "rich" person to go broke. People need to realize that "broke" for these people is not the same as "broke" for poor people - look at Mike Vick.

A broke ex-athlete has a lot of options to get paid - endorsements, celebrity speaking, ghost writing about a popular teammate, children's training camps (quarterback camps), sign with an overseas team (think Antoine Walker) etc.


Boohoo, the now "broke" ex-athlete now has to learn how to live on $500,000 per year instead of $2m. I wish we could all be so lucky as to go "broke" by those standards.

MahiMike
02-01-2011, 08:30 PM
how the hell did they get that list down to just 10? There must be 1000 of these stories. The owners must love it when dumbasses like Cromartie text about how they're living paycheck to paycheck ($300K) at a time.

Saul Good
02-01-2011, 08:53 PM
Why is this surprising? They are no different than the rest of us whose expenses are 110% of our income.

My cousin plays in the NFL and odds are him and most of his teammates will be broke in a couple years just like most of the people reading this message will be broke in a couple years if they are not already.

Doctors are broke.
Dentists are broke.
Policemen are broke.
Secretaries are broke.
Interns are broke.

For most people, regardless of the size of their paycheck, they will still save the same percentage, which is usually 0%.

What I am more concerned about is the 66 year old person retiring this year who will receive $500 per month from social security to live on for the rest of their life, doesn't own a house, and only has $50 in savings.

People act like it is so unfathomable for a "rich" person to go broke. People need to realize that "broke" for these people is not the same as "broke" for poor people - look at Mike Vick.

A broke ex-athlete has a lot of options to get paid - endorsements, celebrity speaking, ghost writing about a popular teammate, children's training camps (quarterback camps), sign with an overseas team (think Antoine Walker) etc.


Boohoo, the now "broke" ex-athlete now has to learn how to live on $500,000 per year instead of $2m. I wish we could all be so lucky as to go "broke" by those standards.

Michael Vick isn't your average NFL player. He's a celebrity. The average, anonymous NFL player doesn't have those options.

salame
02-01-2011, 08:54 PM
i would buy a lot of blow

Over-Head
02-01-2011, 09:38 PM
Travis Henry needs to quit making babies, 11 children and $180,000 a year in child support and drugs, no wonder his ass his broke.
With rubbers only being a buck in washroom vending machiens, he deserves it!!

Rain Man
02-01-2011, 09:41 PM
We kind of expect it from stupid players like Pacman Jones or Mark Gastineau or Brandon Marshall. But it was surprising to me to see some guys on there that at least on the surface seem like they would've been pretty smart (e.g., Ismail, Unitas, Brunell). I was prepared to laugh at their businesses, but for the most part they didn't seem unreasonable. It seems like they just didn't have good research or good management or something.

WV
02-01-2011, 09:44 PM
This touches me about as much as Ed McMahon crying on TV about being broke.....not at all.

To quote the great Ron White...."You can't fix stupid".

whoaskew
02-01-2011, 09:44 PM
Michael Vick isn't your average NFL player. He's a celebrity.

He's a celebrity NOW, after he put in a near MVP season. We are talking about what used to be a $100m man, who's contract is the NFL's version of minimum wage for quarterbacks. I can't think of a much bigger reality check than taking a 98% salary and lifestyle reduction.



The average, anonymous NFL player doesn't have those options.


I am not sure which option you are referring to, but the option that I suggest for NFL players is the same I suggest to everyone else: save 10% (OR PREFERABLY MORE) of every dime you make.


Why would that be an impossible option for an average, anonymous NFL player?


Check out the Study of Retired NFL Players by the University of Michigan and draw your own conclusions:

http://ns.umich.edu/Releases/2009/Sep09/FinalReport.pdf

whoaskew
02-01-2011, 10:02 PM
http://ns.umich.edu/Releases/2009/Sep09/FinalReport.pdf

9. Financial Well-being
Income

The NFL survey used a modified version of the income questions used in the Panel Study of Income Dynamics. We asked former players about many different sources of income, asking whether they had any income of that type and if so, how much. This is summarized in Table 9.1

Several features stand out. Over one-third of NFL retirees report some business income, and many report investment income of different kinds. Endorsements were not particularly common—about 14 percent of more recent retirees, and 5 percent of older ones. The median amounts earned in endorsements were also not particularly high. NFL pensions were much more common than other pensions and more common than Social Security retirement or disability income. Only a few retired players reported unemployment or worker’s compensation or Supplemental Security Income. However, about 9 percent of younger retirees and 5 percent of older ones reported receiving financial help from relatives, and another 7 percent (4 percent) received help from friends.

Table 9.1 Receipt of income by source, and median amounts received



[Source] [% with Income Type] [Median Amount if Any]
[Age Group] [30-49] [50+] [30-49] [50+]

Labor income
Earnings 65.5% 49.2% $65,000 $70,000
Bonus/commissions 23.6% 19.5% $21,000 $50,000
Professional practice 3.8% 8.5% $45,000 $24,000
Endorsements 13.6% 5.4% $10,000 $6,000
Business 34.4% 34.2% $15,000 $40,000

Capital income
Rent 22.5% 17.5% $20,000 $21,600
Dividends 31.9% 36.6% $10,000 $5,000
Interest 35.1% 47.1% $5,000 $2,000
Trust funds 4.2% 3.9% $8,000 $5,500

Pension income
NFL (including disability) 14.1% 64.4% $36,000 $15,000
Other Pension 7.0% 18.9% $27,000 $16,200
Social Security 4.7% 37.7% $27,600 $15,600

Other sources

Supplemental Security
Income (SSI) 1.3% 2.8% $27,500 $20,000
Unemployment 3.1% 1.4% $9,050 $7,000
Workers Comp 4.3% 0.8% $28,700 $5,000
Help from relatives 8.7% 5.5% $7,250 $10,000
Help from others 7.3% 4.3% $2,100 $4,250
Anything else 7.6% 12.4% $10,000 $16,50

Prince22
02-01-2011, 10:58 PM
What the hell ever. I couldnt spend that money in a life time. Besides, these guys are pumping money back into our economy. Like a stimulus package!

TEX
02-02-2011, 01:31 AM
I'd have no problem setting myself for life.

spanky 52
02-02-2011, 05:19 AM
Fuck every one of these dumb asses that cries about being broke or bankrupt. Let em punch a time clock for 37 years and then maybe I'll consider a little sympathy. It's all about living within your means.

Mile High Mania
02-02-2011, 06:32 AM
Guys like Briscoe and Unitas didn't make the bank that the guys are making now... guys like LT, Henry, Vick - they went bankrupt because of idiot off the field things.

Over-Head
02-02-2011, 06:36 AM
**** every one of these dumb asses that cries about being broke or bankrupt. Let em punch a time clock for 37 years and then maybe I'll consider a little sympathy. It's all about living within your means.
This times a Gazillion

I have an increadibly hard time reading about the plights of someone who "had" more $$$ than I will ever make in my whole famileys lifetime, went through it, and didn't even so much as set up a "small" reserve fund in a safty deposit box of say $150-250K

Next these ****ers are gonna want EI bennifets after they lose thier jobs in the off season

KC Jones
02-02-2011, 07:30 AM
The thinking of NFL players is flawed. They think they are supposed to only have to work a few years to support themselves and their families for a life time. They don't plan for another career after their playing days are over and that's not smart considering the average length of an NFL career.


If I recieved a windfall of a couple million dollars the first thing I'd do would be to put it in a high yield tax exempt fund.

How hard is it to advise someone to do that? That's it! I want to be an adviser to NFL players. All I want is a small percent of the proceeds.:D


PhilFree:arrow:

Why settle for a small percentage when you could dupe them out of nearly all of it?! Some financial analyst you are!

ChiefaRoo
02-02-2011, 08:45 AM
A fool and his money are lucky to have gotten together in the first place/ Gordon Gekko

Iowanian
02-02-2011, 09:33 AM
I anxiously await the telethon.....


"I been living in this 10,000 sq ft 18 bedroom mansion you saw on MTV cribs and now, due to my overspending, partying too much, and letting too many leaches in my life.....I may be forced to use my free college education to get a job and live in a house like the rest of you slobs"


F them. F them all.

I'll save my sympathy for the working family living on 35k between them with 3 kids and the transmission that just dropped out of the 1999 minivan.

Old Dog
02-02-2011, 09:52 AM
Fuck every one of these dumb asses that cries about being broke or bankrupt. Let em punch a time clock for 37 years and then maybe I'll consider a little sympathy. It's all about living within your means.

You put it so eloquently that all I have to do is say either "this" or "+1"......decisions, decisions.

Ralphy Boy
02-02-2011, 10:22 AM
sucks for them but good for everyone else

The owners spend billions on players who in-turn flush that money down the drain into the economy.

Yeah I'm pretty sure the majority of products they are spending their money on have little to do with the local economies.

Dayze
02-02-2011, 01:09 PM
serious question...

why do players need agents? seems as though they (most of them ) could probably negotiate it themselves if they were motivated to do so; hire a contracts lawyer to make sure it's buttoned up etc.

If I were an NFL player and I knew my market value, I'd be inclined to negotiat myself.

I'm sure it's not as simple as that...but you get my point.

Short Leash Hootie
02-02-2011, 01:12 PM
serious question...

why do players need agents? seems as though they (most of them ) could probably negotiate it themselves if they were motivated to do so; hire a contracts lawyer to make sure it's buttoned up etc.

If I were an NFL player and I knew my market value, I'd be inclined to negotiat myself.

I'm sure it's not as simple as that...but you get my point.

that's what good ol' Daunte Culpepper did...

Awesome Aric
02-02-2011, 01:14 PM
They should buy gold because everyone knows that America is turning into a slum right before our eyes and that the dollar is soon to be no more.

Bob Dole
02-02-2011, 01:24 PM
5 million a year isn't 5 million a year.


A lot of people don't realize that. Income Tax, Property Tax, Sales Tax, etc knock the final number down considerably.

Yeah. If the poor bastards do absolutely nothing to increase deductions or shelter anything, it's only $3.27 million a year! How can anyone possibly live on that? It's practically poverty!!!

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 01:27 PM
serious question...

why do players need agents? seems as though they (most of them ) could probably negotiate it themselves if they were motivated to do so; hire a contracts lawyer to make sure it's buttoned up etc.

If I were an NFL player and I knew my market value, I'd be inclined to negotiat myself.

I'm sure it's not as simple as that...but you get my point.

Seriously?

LMAO

Have you ever negotiated a 400 page contract before? How about a "simple" 10 page contract?

There are so many sticking points in contracts, let alone "legalspeak". In one paragraph, they'll "give" you the rights to "A" and in the next, they'll take them away.

When your livelihood is on the line, NEVER negotiate or sign a contract WITHOUT proper legal advice.

Bane
02-02-2011, 01:29 PM
3rd grade reading levels + millions = doom.****'em.

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 01:41 PM
3rd grade reading levels + millions = doom.****'em.

Yeah, fuck 'em.

It's a much better outcome when highly educated people screw over athletes to the tune of millions of dollars.

Doggy dog world.

:facepalm:

Rain Man
02-02-2011, 01:41 PM
serious question...

why do players need agents? seems as though they (most of them ) could probably negotiate it themselves if they were motivated to do so; hire a contracts lawyer to make sure it's buttoned up etc.

If I were an NFL player and I knew my market value, I'd be inclined to negotiat myself.

I'm sure it's not as simple as that...but you get my point.


The players did just that until about the mid-60s, and I think the coaches were generally on the other side of the table.

I read that Jim Ringo was the first Packer to show up with an agent, and Vince Lombardi excused himself from the room. He came back a few minutes later and told Ringo that he'd just traded him.

I suspect the money's too big now to not have an agent, especially for your first contract. If your second or third is just an extension with all the same verbage maybe you could do it yourself, but I bet they're never the same verbage from year to year.

Ricky Williams hired some rap singer to be his agent if I remember right, and Ricky got a "smallest guy on the cell block" contract from the Saints. It's a business, I guess.

Dayze
02-02-2011, 01:46 PM
Seriously?

LMAO

Have you ever negotiated a 400 page contract before? How about a "simple" 10 page contract?

There are so many sticking points in contracts, let alone "legalspeak". In one paragraph, they'll "give" you the rights to "A" and in the next, they'll take them away.

When your livelihood is on the line, NEVER negotiate or sign a contract WITHOUT proper legal advice.

well, yeah...lol. I didn't expect it to be on a bar napkin etc.

shouldn't a player be able to negotiate salary/bonuses, trade/franchise etc; then have the contract reviewed by attorneys etc.

I guess i don't know what an agent does to warrant a % of the contract, that an attorney couldn't do for a ffxed price?

Short Leash Hootie
02-02-2011, 01:46 PM
yeah Master P!

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 01:49 PM
well, yeah...lol. I didn't expect it to be on a bar napkin etc.

shouldn't a player be able to negotiate salary/bonuses, trade/franchise clausses etc; then have the contract reviewed by attorneys etc.

I guess i don't know what an agent does to warrant a % of the contract, that an attorney couldn't do?

99% of the time, agents ARE lawyers. If they're not (which is rare), the agent should have a team of lawyers in place.

Why would you think that a 21 year-old kid that's played football all of his life would have ANY inkling of how to negotiate ANY contract, let alone a contract worth $2 million to $60 million dollars?

Seriously? This is a REAL question? No offense but WOW.

JASONSAUTO
02-02-2011, 01:53 PM
Is this where snoop lives?



Doggy dog world.

:facepalm:
Posted via Mobile Device

loochy
02-02-2011, 01:53 PM
F them. F them all.


This.


I'll save my sympathy for the working family living on 35k between them with 3 kids and the transmission that just dropped out of the 1999 minivan.

Not so much this. If they only make that little then WTF are they having 3 kids?

Dayze
02-02-2011, 01:54 PM
99% of the time, agents ARE lawyers. If they're not (which is rare), the agent should have a team of lawyers in place.

Why would you think that a 21 year-old kid that's played football all of his life would have ANY inkling of how to negotiate ANY contract, let alone a contract worth $2 million to $60 million dollars?

Seriously? This is a REAL question? No offense but WOW.

no offense taken.
I didn't realize most agents were lawyers etc.

I was asking from the standpoint of if I were a player headed into his second/third contract etc, I'd be of the mindset that I've already given my agent enough money.

Rain Man
02-02-2011, 01:56 PM
Ricky Williams must not like agents. I also seem to recall that there's been another recent player in the NFL who didn't use an agent, but I can't remember who. It was a defensive back if I remember right, but it's fuzzy.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-williamscontract090508

Source: Williams should have gotten better deal

By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports
Sep 5, 11:08 pm EDT

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The saga of Ricky Williams and one of the most famous deals in NFL history took an interesting turn last week when Williams had a new agent work out the terms of an extension with the Miami Dolphins.

That new agent was Williams himself.

Williams acted as his own representation because his previous agent, Leigh Steinberg, is currently not certified as an agent by the NFL Players Association. Steinberg let his certification lapse in 2007 for business reasons, although he said he is in the process of becoming certified again.

As for the one-year extension Williams agreed to last Saturday with the Dolphins, all Steinberg would say is, “I did not negotiate that contract.” He had no further comment on the matter because he hadn’t talked to Williams, who has yet to play out the terms of a contract he signed as a rookie in 1999, or see the deal.

A league source with direct knowledge of the contract said Williams received a roster bonus this year. For every game he is one the 53-man roster, Williams receives $93,750 for a maximum roster bonus of $1.5 million. He gets paid the bonus throughout the season as he earns it. The bonus is not guaranteed and he does receive it if he gets hurt or is released by the team.

In addition, Williams will get a $3.4 million base salary in 2009 and a $100,000 workout bonus for that offseason as part of the deal. There are no additional incentives in the deal for 2009. Williams received no guaranteed money as part of the contract.

As one NFL source described it: “It’s not a good deal, but what can you do? He agreed to it.”

Both Williams and the Dolphins declined to discuss the specifics of the contract. Williams declined an email request to talk about the deal and team spokesman Harvey Greene said the Dolphins “don’t talk about contract negotiations.”

Last week, Williams said he was happy because he believed the contract provided him with stability.

“It’s nice. I’m at a point in my career where I’m looking for some kind of stability,” Williams said in a group interview session. “At least I got another year here and keep my kids in the same place. I’m taking classes now, so it will help with the transition for life after football. I’m happy to be here for another year.”

Two of Williams’ four children live with him in South Florida. The other two children live in other parts of the country. For at least one of the children who doesn’t live with him, Williams is required to pay more than $50,000 a year in child support and provide other financial benefits. That amount is regardless of whether Williams plays football.

While Williams’ value will forever be limited by his history of suspensions because of drug use and because he retired before the 2004 season, getting $3 or $4 million in guarantees as part of a new contract next year may not have been that difficult, according to the source. Exceeding the total of $5 million in additional money Williams got in the contract for this year and 2009 seemed like a reasonable bet.

“There are a lot of ifs with Ricky, but with the money that’s out there for free agents right now, he could have easily gotten that much,” the source said. “There probably would have been some strings attached, but I think he could have done better than this.”

The 31-year-old Williams was the No. 5 overall pick in the 1999 draft by New Orleans after a controversial trade by the Saints in which they gave up all their draft picks and future picks for the rights to get Williams.

At the time, Williams was represented by rapper Master P, who Williams hired after firing first agent Andrew Brandt. Brandt, a lawyer who had represented Williams as a baseball player, later became the salary cap guru and contract negotiator for the Packers. Brandt was with the Packers until early this year.

Under Master P, Williams hired Leland Hardy as his football contract negotiator. Hardy then constructed a rookie deal for Williams that has been used in law schools and business schools as a model for bad contracts.

Williams received a signing bonus worth $8.8 million as part of the deal and could have earned between $11 and $68 million over seven years as part of the contract. Unfortunately, the bulk of the incentives were based on Williams surpassing the first four years in performance by former Denver running back Terrell Davis, whose first four seasons are the most productive by any running back in NFL history.

Williams eventually fired Master P and Hardy and hired Steinberg after his first season. Neither the rapper nor Hardy are agents any longer.

In 2002, Williams was dealt to the Dolphins for what eventually became two first-round picks. Before the season, Williams and the Dolphins agreed to restructure the deal so that Williams could earn incentives and increase his base pay in following years. However, the contract featured language that is no longer allowed in the NFL that required that Williams pay back any incentives he earned and any rollover salary he earned under the incentives, in addition to any prorated signing bonus he had remaining from his rookie season.

Williams earned more than $3 million in incentives in 2002 as he rushed for an NFL-leading 1,853 yards. An amount equal to the more than $3 million was added to his 2003 salary as well.

However, when Williams failed multiple drug tests before the 2004 season and retired from the league, the Dolphins went after the money in federal court and through the NFL. The team received a court judgment for $8.6 million and an arbitrator upheld the team’s right to get the money under the contract he signed.

That decision eventually led the NFL and NFLPA to negotiate what is known to this day as the Ricky Williams Rule, under which money that is earned from incentives can’t be taken away from a player after the fact.

Williams’ deal became even more complicated as he retired and/or was suspended by the league for all or parts of the 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007 seasons. This year, Williams’ 10th since being drafted, was to be the final year of his contract.

Or as Steinberg put it last Friday before the extension was done by Williams: “You remember the movie, ‘The Endless Summer?’ This is The Endless Contract. But finally it’s all coming to an end. It’s amazing. Most players have free agency after four years. Ricky took 10. Ricky doesn’t do things in conventional ways.”

Once again, that appears to be the case.

Short Leash Hootie
02-02-2011, 01:56 PM
99% of the time, agents ARE lawyers. If they're not (which is rare), the agent should have a team of lawyers in place.

Why would you think that a 21 year-old kid that's played football all of his life would have ANY inkling of how to negotiate ANY contract, let alone a contract worth $2 million to $60 million dollars?

Seriously? This is a REAL question? No offense but WOW.

can't be that hard

Just saying.

I think agents are more about marketing their players than pounding out contracts...

These days if you're drafted you're basically slotted into a contract...

It's all about where you're drafted...

If I go into the draft without an agent, get drafted 5th overall...it would be freaking easy to negotiate my own contract. And the dude mentioned having a contracts lawyer on hand.

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 02:02 PM
can't be that hard



LMAO

Reerun_KC
02-02-2011, 02:03 PM
can't be that hard

Just saying.

I think agents are more about marketing their players than pounding out contracts...

These days if you're drafted you're basically slotted into a contract...

It's all about where you're drafted...

If I go into the draft without an agent, get drafted 5th overall...it would be freaking easy to negotiate my own contract. And the dude mentioned having a contracts lawyer on hand.

I hope your not serious?

Short Leash Hootie
02-02-2011, 02:04 PM
LMAO

figured this was coming

too predictable

but yeah...

the NFL for rookies is basically a slotted system

anyone with common sense could negotiate a fair contract

agents are more for marketing purposes than contract negotiations...especially for rookies

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 02:04 PM
no offense taken.
I didn't realize most agents were lawyers etc.

I was asking from the standpoint of if I were a player headed into his second/third contract etc, I'd be of the mindset that I've already given my agent enough money.

Enough money? JFC, Dude, they're only allowed to take 3.5% of the total contract.

These guys live and breathe football. That's it. Most haven't gone to law school and will be more than happy to pay an agent to negotiate a fair share. Are nutritionists free? Are real estate agents free? What about insurance agents?

For Fuck's Sake, it's no different than these guys training at specialized training facilities. Is that free? If not, why can't these guys just train themselves?

Come on, guys. Jesus Fucking Christ on a Sybian.

Short Leash Hootie
02-02-2011, 02:05 PM
I hope your not serious?

?

the NFL is basically a slotted payskill

if I'm taken 9th overall...or in the 3rd round...

I basically know what I'm getting paid...based off of who was paid before me, and what position I play

the guys who really need agents are the "no namers" with talent who need to be marketed and brought to everyone's attention

Over-Head
02-02-2011, 02:05 PM
Yeah, **** 'em.

It's a much better outcome when highly educated people screw over athletes to the tune of millions of dollars.

Doggy dog world.

:facepalm:

Neither is good, but come on, even Jafatazz knew his career wouldn't last forever and put enough aside to eat for the rest of his life.
Yes they can and do get taken advantage of, but if they can memorize a play book, they can open a SAVINGS account.

Short Leash Hootie
02-02-2011, 02:07 PM
not getting into any debates this morning...

I'm not a professional athlete...and I'm very lazy so if I were I'd have an agent so I wouldn't have to do any extra work...but they are overrated IMO (just an opinion, calm down)

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 02:07 PM
figured this was coming

too predictable

but yeah...

the NFL for rookies is basically a slotted system

anyone with common sense could negotiate a fair contract

agents are more for marketing purposes than contract negotiations...especially for rookies

You're a fucking idiot but by now, that's common knowledge.

There are far more clauses in NFL contracts than just yearly salaries. What about promotions? Charities? Personal Conduct?

What contracts have YOU ever negotiated or signed for that matter that were worth $1 million or more?

Valiant
02-02-2011, 02:10 PM
And that is exactly why they all need to have competent money managers and financial advisers.

A guy that plays football for a living (or that earns six, seven, eight or nine figure salaries) should be concerned with their job first and foremost, not "learning" how to manage money, accumulate wealth, etc.

The reason why guys like Dawson, Brunell, John Brodie, etc. lost millions is because they got away from what they do best: Football. Instead, they decided to invest their cash without the benefit of experience, education, etc.

It happens every day in America, where somebody gets an idea that they think will be a great earner, but they end up losing their asses because they're clueless about the business they're starting.

These guys listed didn't lose their earnings because they bought too many Bentley's or watches. They lost their money because they ventured into unfamiliar territory without the aid of extremely successful people who've previously had enormous success in their respective fields.

And what percentages of those players lost it like that. Most of these guys went to college, if they decided to use it as a free ride for pussy and going to the nfl instead of the learning then it is ther own fault. These people are adults, if they don't have enough sense to listen to the 'man' and would rather trust friends then it is their own damn fault.

This is not new news for players this has been going on for decades, the whole it will never happen to me is their own fault. The nfl gives them options on learning. Not sure what extent the nflpa does. But very few people are going to sympathize with them.

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 02:12 PM
Neither is good, but come on, even Jafatazz knew his career wouldn't last forever and put enough aside to eat for the rest of his life.
Yes they can and do get taken advantage of, but if they can memorize a play book, they can open a SAVINGS account.

No offense but I'm not sure if you linked to the story and read all of the related information, as I did.

These guys, as I mentioned earlier, had to declare bankruptcy for one simple reason: They put up "Personal Guarantees" for businesses in which they had absolutely NO prior experience.

If you're not familiar with a "Personal Guarantee", in short, it's a terrible thing to use as collateral. It basically states that if your business fails, bankruptcy courts cannot protect your savings, your home, your cars - nothing. Everything is fair game if you default on a loan. EVERYTHING.

IMO, if you have to use personal guarantees in order to start a business of that magnitude, where you're likely to end up millions upon millions in debt, DON'T DO IT.

Dayze
02-02-2011, 02:13 PM
Enough money? JFC, Dude, they're only allowed to take 3.5% of the total contract.

These guys live and breathe football. That's it. Most haven't gone to law school and will be more than happy to pay an agent to negotiate a fair share. Are nutritionists free? Are real estate agents free? What about insurance agents?

For ****'s Sake, it's no different than these guys training at specialized training facilities. Is that free? If not, why can't these guys just train themselves?

Come on, guys. Jesus ****ing Christ on a Sybian.

LMAO

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 02:14 PM
And what percentages of those players lost it like that. Most of these guys went to college, if they decided to use it as a free ride for pussy and going to the nfl instead of the learning then it is ther own fault. These people are adults, if they don't have enough sense to listen to the 'man' and would rather trust friends then it is their own damn fault.

This is not new news for players this has been going on for decades, the whole it will never happen to me is their own fault. The nfl gives them options on learning. Not sure what extent the nflpa does. But very few people are going to sympathize with them.

This article described EXTREME circumstances. Guys who lost millions upon millions in businesses far outside of football and personal experience, not the average NFL player.

Over-Head
02-02-2011, 02:15 PM
These people are adults, if they don't have enough sense to listen to the 'man' and would rather trust friends then it is their own damn fault.

This is not new news for players this has been going on for decades, the whole it will never happen to me is their own fault. .

THIS.
Every rookie in the draft knows the risk of playing, it's a very violent sport.
Common scense would tell ya "hey...I'm not always gonna be a 3.2mill a year running back, WTF am I going to live on when i'm 65??
Not all these guys were born with Dane's bank account

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 02:18 PM
THIS.
Every rookie in the draft knows the risk of playing, it's a very violent sport.
Common scense would tell ya "hey...I'm not always gonna be a 3.2mill a year running back, WTF am I going to live on when i'm 65??
Not all these guys were born with Dane's bank account

This article isn't about rookies. It's about successful veteran players that lost their asses and had to declare bankruptcy due to bad investments and business failures.

With the exception of Mike Vick, it's not about guys pissing away their earnings on nonsense like jewelry, cars and friends.

Over-Head
02-02-2011, 02:20 PM
No offense but I'm not sure if you linked to the story and read all of the related information, as I did.

These guys, as I mentioned earlier, had to declare bankruptcy for one simple reason: They put up "Personal Guarantees" for businesses in which they had absolutely NO prior experience.

If you're not with a "Personal Guarantee", in short, it's a terrible thing to use as collateral. It basically states that if your business fails, bankruptcy courts cannot protect your savings, your home, your cars - nothing. Everything is fair game if you default on a loan. EVERYTHING.

IMO, if you have to use in order to start a business of that magnitude, where you're likely to end up millions upon millions in debt, DON'T DO IT.

AGAIN, pre planning if you INVEST millions, ya can put a few hundred in an off shore account, or hide it in a matress.
They may have been business dumb,,,,but they wern't ****en brain dead were they??
And yes Dane, i'm very familiar personal guarantees

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 02:29 PM
They may have been business dumb,,,,but they wern't ****en brain dead were they??

Apparently, they were.

:D

Over-Head
02-02-2011, 02:33 PM
Apparently, they were.

:D
Now that i've said it...yeah wern't they.
not trying to just argue, and the "rookie" example was just that.
These guys all knew they wouldn't be playing forever. And yeah made some bad investements etc...but come on. You can't expect too many people to feel sorry for ya if through good bad or ugly, you let millions dissapear for what ever reason, and didn't keep enough aside to live on "just in case"
JMO thats all.
Got noting to do with Laywers, agents, or slime ball sharks, just plain ole common scense

stevieray
02-02-2011, 02:36 PM
hard life lesson #6123
it's not what you earn, it's what you save.

these guys are overpaid anyways, kind of makes sesne that it ends up this way more often than not.

IMO., instead of high salaries, the money should be put into full medical coverage for injuries related to football.

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 02:38 PM
these guys are overpaid anyways, kind of makes sesne that it ends up this way more often than not.

I don't think they're overpaid. They receive 40% of the total revenues earned by the NFL, yet they're the guys putting their health (and possibly their lives) on the line.

IMO., instead of high salaries, the money should be put into full medical coverage for injuries related to football.

I think it should be both and the union is fighting for both in the next CBA.

Brock
02-02-2011, 02:54 PM
I don't think they're overpaid. They receive 40% of the total revenues earned by the NFL, yet they're the guys putting their health (and possibly their lives) on the line.



I think it should be both and the union is fighting for both in the next CBA.

Believe it's 60 percent to the players.

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 03:00 PM
Believe it's 60 percent to the players.

Oops, you're right. I flipped it by mistake.

The players currently get 60% of the total revenues and the owners claim they're losing money by receiving only 40%.

Iowanian
02-02-2011, 03:09 PM
Maybe college football players who think they're going to possibly be in the NFL should take Accounting, or Business and Finance instead of "general studies" with their scholarship money.....

stevieray
02-02-2011, 03:12 PM
I don't think they're overpaid. They receive 40% of the total revenues earned by the NFL, yet they're the guys putting their health (and possibly their lives) on the line.



I think it should be both and the union is fighting for both in the next CBA.

...they choose to put their health on the line to play a sport. it's not like they are firemen or policemen, who make how much?

DaneMcCloud
02-02-2011, 03:18 PM
...they choose to put their health on the line to play a sport. it's not like they are firemen or policemen, who make how much?

Unfortunately, society has decided that football players (and athletes in general) are worthy of being paid far more than non-athletes.

Personally, I feel that type of discussion is a topic for a different thread.

Brock
02-02-2011, 03:19 PM
...they choose to put their health on the line to play a sport. it's not like they are firemen or policemen, who make how much?

The market is what it is. Your beef is with the market, not NFL players.

stevieray
02-02-2011, 03:28 PM
agreed.

notorious
02-02-2011, 05:42 PM
If you look into anyone that is the absolute best at their profession, they are probably not going to be a very well-balanced individual.

Too much time is invested in their trade to worry about everyday life choices.


BUT, is it really that hard to direct deposit to a savings account and save some money?

WilliamTheIrish
02-02-2011, 05:45 PM
Maybe college football players who think they're going to possibly be in the NFL should take Accounting, or Business and Finance instead of "general studies" with their scholarship money.....

That doesn't keep them 'eligible'. Gotta keep those false grad rates up so AlmaMater U. doesn't lose a schollie.

I have zero problem with althletes getting paid or losing it all. That's all part of the circle. But graduating with degrees of little real world value is the bigger problem.

chiefzilla1501
02-02-2011, 05:48 PM
If you look into anyone that is the absolute best at their profession, they are probably not going to be a very well-balanced individual.

Too much time is invested in their trade to worry about everyday life choices.


BUT, is it really that hard to direct deposit to a savings account and save some money?

I'm guessing that when you're 20-22 years old, it can be incredibly difficult. About 1/3 of lottery winners also go broke.

When I was 22, I know I was never thinking about saving.

chiefzilla1501
02-02-2011, 05:51 PM
That doesn't keep the 'eligible'. Gotta keep those false grad rates up so AlmaMater U. doesn't lose a schollie.

I have zero problem with althletes getting paid or losing it all. That's all part of the circle. But graduating with degrees of little real world value is the bigger problem.

Yup. Not all of these players are the brightest tools on the shed. And saving behaviors are very often learned from parents, and a lot of these parents are probably not the type of people that are throwing money into savings accounts. And I'd have to imagine it's not like his friends understand the difference either--I wonder how much NFL players blow every year on moocher friends.

Plain and simple, it's just a huge pool of people who have no idea how to handle having that much money and it doesn't happen gradually. It happens immediately by the truckload. Probably pretty hard to convince an NFL player that his retirement is important when he has $5M of spare change sitting in his bank account.