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Rain Man
02-01-2011, 08:12 PM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/WORLD/americas/02/01/brazil.uncontacted.tribes/t1larg.brazil.tribe.si.jpg

I find this stuff interesting, and it raises a lot of questions for me.

First, these pictures were likely taken by a plane or helicopter flying overhead. While they're an "uncontacted" tribe, how does seeing an airplane affect them?

Second, these people are citizens of Brazil. As a government, is it your responsibility to contact them so they can vote and get cable and whooping cough medicine, or can you legally leave them alone and unaware of the outside world?

Third, how big are these tribes? How big does a group have to be to be a tribe? Is 5 people enough? 30? A thousand?

Fourth, if you were a member of this tribe, would you want to know about what's going on in the greater world, or would it just freak you out?

I think it's great that there are still tribes out there doing their own thing, and am very surprised to read their estimate that there's more than a hundred of them.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/americas/02/01/brazil.uncontacted.tribes/index.html?hpt=T2

(CNN) -- In an effort to ramp up pressure for Peru to crack down on illegal loggers in its region of the Amazon, an indigenous rights organization has released what it says are photos of an uncontacted tribe in Brazil that is threatened by the logging across the border.
Survival International says the previously unpublished aerial photos, which it released Monday, show members of an uncontacted Brazilian tribe that is likely to get drawn into conflicts with Peruvian tribes who are fleeing their homes because of the logging.
One photo shows five tribe members, some in red tribal paint, standing in front of a hut and looking upward. One man is holding a bow, and another, younger person, holds a machete. Foods including bananas, papayas and cassava can be identified near the tribe members.
The photos were taken by Brazil's National Indian Foundation and were given to Survival International, it said.
"The illegal loggers will destroy this tribe," Survival International Director Stephen Corry said in a written statement. "It's vital that the Peruvian government stop them before time runs out. The people in these photos are self-evidently healthy and thriving. What they need from us is their territory protected, so that they can make their own choices about their future."
More than 100 uncontacted tribes remain worldwide, and about half live in the remote reaches of the Amazonian rainforest in Peru or Brazil, near the recently photographed tribe, the organization says.
"But this area is now at real risk, and if the wave of illegal logging isn't stopped fast, their future will be taken out of their hands. This isn't just a possibility: it's irrefutable history, rewritten on the graves of countless tribes for the last five centuries," Corry said.
Loggers in Peru are pushing isolated Indians from Peru into Brazil, where, according to Survival International, "the two groups are likely to come into conflict."
Several nongovernmental organizations have pushed Peru to act against the logging for years, but little has been done, they say.

DaneMcCloud
02-01-2011, 08:13 PM
This is just like Avatar

Gadzooks
02-01-2011, 08:20 PM
They weave baskets and they wear underpants. This must be inherent for all humans. Fascinating...

jspchief
02-01-2011, 08:22 PM
They weave baskets and they wear underpants. This must be inherent for all humans. Fascinating...No one wants to get their junk snagged on a thorn bush. Underpants.

Rain Man
02-01-2011, 08:24 PM
They weave baskets and they wear underpants. This must be inherent for all humans. Fascinating...

Now that you mention it, the underpants thing is interesting. There's no particular reason to wear clothing in the Amazon, I think. Or if there was (e.g., mosquitoes), the motivation would be to wear more clothing. Why do they only wear clothing in the same part of the body where an American or Asian would wear clothing?

salame
02-01-2011, 08:25 PM
he has some sick ass red paint on

Silock
02-01-2011, 08:26 PM
Maybe they don't want to be found.

chasedude
02-01-2011, 08:27 PM
Damn, I thought this was another Bigfoot sighting.

Rain Man
02-01-2011, 08:29 PM
Damn, I thought this was another Bigfoot sighting.

The funny thing is, I was just pondering making a serious post asking if it looks like they all have particularly large feet. Is it just some weird camera angle thing, or do everyone's feet look that big from the top? I remember reading that Tamba Hali has wide feet because he was always barefoot, so maybe it's the same thing here.

Buck
02-01-2011, 08:29 PM
Where is the Do Nothing choice?

FAX
02-01-2011, 08:31 PM
When encountering a previously uncontacted tribe, it's important to avoid two things: 1) Discussing religion and 2) Darts.

FAX

salame
02-01-2011, 08:31 PM
look at those big ass blades

Fish
02-01-2011, 08:32 PM
If we did contact them, we'd likely kill the whole tribe with something as minor as a cold virus. Their immune systems have to be vastly underdeveloped...

Rain Man
02-01-2011, 08:36 PM
I wonder what language they speak. And along those lines, it'd be interesting to hear their dinner conversations.

"How was your day, honey?"

"Pretty good. I got some cassava roots. How about you?"

"Decent. I killed a monkey."

"Did you see that big giant shiny bird fly over again today?"

"Yeah. I thought it was aliens, but the chief said it was just swamp gas."

WV
02-01-2011, 08:38 PM
Offer them our president.

Talisman
02-01-2011, 08:43 PM
Good timing. Just in time for them to catch the Super Bowl. Quick, lower the TVs!

Man, I hope Geico doesn't go with a "so easy an undiscovered tribesman could do it" theme this year.

noa
02-01-2011, 08:50 PM
I remember a story like this from a couple years ago.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25350389/ns/technology_and_science-science/
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Bearcat
02-01-2011, 08:53 PM
Just think, you've been around a while, had kids, met the other 10 people in the area, etc; and all you know is the jungle. Who knows, maybe there are other jungles and other tribes.... then one day you see an airplane and possibly the people flying it or a bulldozer and guys with chainsaws. It would be like a 2 year old with no concept of things outside of their own little world seeing a plane for the first time, except you're 30.

Baconeater
02-01-2011, 08:58 PM
Yes, as a government, it is your responsibility to contact them so they can vote and get cable and whooping cough medicine. And more importantly, pay taxes.

Bob Dole
02-01-2011, 09:01 PM
Uncontacted, but yet they have managed to obtain machetes...

As for "Would you want to knowing what's going on in the greater world..." Hell no. Bob Dole wishes there was some way to flush all this shit from memory and join them in their blissful ignorance.

Hog Farmer
02-01-2011, 09:02 PM
I wish they at least had email access so I could send them one of my famous American Email scams to try and get all their bananas.

Rain Man
02-01-2011, 09:03 PM
Just think, you've been around a while, had kids, met the other 10 people in the area, etc; and all you know is the jungle. Who knows, maybe there are other jungles and other tribes.... then one day you see an airplane and possibly the people flying it or a bulldozer and guys with chainsaws. It would be like a 2 year old with no concept of things outside of their own little world seeing a plane for the first time, except you're 30.

It seems like it would be similar to us seeing UFOs. Maybe not quite as dramatic since we're the same species as the Amazonians, but if we're flying planes or driving bulldozers it would be pretty impactful.

I wonder how often they see people from other tribes. As I think about it, they could be "uncontacted" but still have blue jeans if they make trades with tribes that have been contacted. Or other uncontacted tribes who themselves have traded with contacted tribes. It seems possible, even likely, that they would have heard rumors of the outside world unless they're so remote that they're completely out of the communications loop with other tribes.

Pablo
02-01-2011, 09:04 PM
Just shoot them down and harvest all their tree forts and make baseball bats out of them so we can watch jacked-up monsters hit the cover off a baseball going 500 feet.

Seems like the only logical thing to do.

kstater
02-01-2011, 09:06 PM
Uncontacted, but yet they have managed to obtain machetes...



Because sharp metal object is something constructed entirely of modern science.

Bob Dole
02-01-2011, 09:10 PM
Because sharp metal object is something constructed entirely of modern science.

True...it's hard to tell how crude it is or isn't.

loochy
02-01-2011, 09:10 PM
I remember a story like this from a couple years ago.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25350389/ns/technology_and_science-science/
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Yeah, I remember that story about the blank box too. It was awesome.

suzzer99
02-01-2011, 09:12 PM
Because sharp metal object is something constructed entirely of modern science.

They probably got it in trade with neighboring tribes. Or the picture is a hoax, which it could very well be.

Bearcat
02-01-2011, 09:13 PM
It seems like it would be similar to us seeing UFOs. Maybe not quite as dramatic since we're the same species as the Amazonians, but if we're flying planes or driving bulldozers it would be pretty impactful.

I wonder how often they see people from other tribes. As I think about it, they could be "uncontacted" but still have blue jeans if they make trades with tribes that have been contacted. Or other uncontacted tribes who themselves have traded with contacted tribes. It seems possible, even likely, that they would have heard rumors of the outside world unless they're so remote that they're completely out of the communications loop with other tribes.

I thought of that, but if I saw a ghost or a UFO one day, while it would be quite surprising, at least I have a concept given to me by TV... I could say "Holy shit, a UFO!"... Hollywood has given me many ideas of what aliens or ghosts might look like, so it's not completely unfathomable.

Maybe they've wandered upon plane wreckage or something, but before that plane, their whole concept of flying might have been from birds, and now someone is hovering over you in a helicopter made out of stuff you've never seen while making noises you've never heard... that's a pretty big jump in the "holy shit!" factor. What if the guy taking pictures accidentally dropped his iPod? What if that guy listens to Nickelback? Gross.

Bob Dole
02-01-2011, 09:15 PM
What if the guy taking pictures accidentally dropped his iPod? What if that guy listens to Nickelback? Gross.

But if he listened to Creed, they'd be safe from wolves.

suzzer99
02-01-2011, 09:18 PM
They've definitely seen planes, metal, probably even guns from neighboring tribes. "Uncontacted" just means uncontacted by a big modern entourage. From what I've seen and read, most or maybe all of the tribes left uncontacted are by choice - as they've seem modern groups from afar, or heard of them in the area. These tribes tend to be the hostile tribes that are suspicious of outsiders and have a very strong, stubborn tradition of doing things the way they've always done them.

There is a whole island in India with a hostile tribe that the govt just leaves alone. But the tribe has definitely had contact with the outside world. Here have fun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples

Rain Man
02-01-2011, 09:20 PM
I bet in the long run these people are the ones who end up wearing the unused "San Diego Chargers 2011 AFC West Champion t-shirts". I like looking at the t-shirts being worn in National Geographic when they do articles on places like the Democratic Republic of the Congo. You'll see stuff like Mork and Mindy t-shirts and Dennis Kucinich for President t-shirts and all sorts of stuff.

Rain Man
02-01-2011, 09:24 PM
They've definitely seen planes, metal, probably even guns from neighboring tribes. "Uncontacted" just means uncontacted by a big western entourage. From what I've seen and read, most or maybe all of the tribes left uncontacted are by choice - as they've seem westerners from afar, or heard of them in the area. These tribes tend to be the hostile tribes that are suspicious of outsiders and have a very strong, stubborn tradition of doing things the way they've always done them.

I would agree. I think "uncontacted" is probably different from "unaware" at this point in world history.

While it's hard to see, that machete looks slick enough that I bet they traded for it and it was made in Sao Paulo.

suzzer99
02-01-2011, 09:31 PM
The Sentinilese people of the Andaman Islands in india: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese_people

In 2006, Sentinelese archers killed two fishermen who were fishing illegally within range of the island, and drove off with a hail of arrows the helicopter that was sent to retrieve their bodies.[8] To this date, their bodies remain unrecovered, although the downdraught from the helicopter's rotors at the time exposed the two fishermen, who had been buried in shallow graves by the Sentinelese.


Crazy stuff. How bad would it suck to get killed by a native with a bow and arrow in 2006?

CrazyPhuD
02-01-2011, 10:00 PM
Meh the orange underwear just tells me they're old bronco's fans. Sadly though they are probably the most educated fans the bronco's have.

CrazyPhuD
02-01-2011, 10:02 PM
BTW where's the 'enslave them' poll option?

Rain Man
02-01-2011, 10:07 PM
The Sentinilese people of the Andaman Islands in india: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese_people



Crazy stuff. How bad would it suck to get killed by a native with a bow and arrow in 2006?


It'd be a good story for your friends, though.

Didn't one of the Rockefellers disappear in New Guinea somewhere back in the Sixties, and no one ever knew what happened to him? There were rumors that he was killed by headhunters, and also rumors that he was captured and held forever as a god or an omen or something? I think it was a Rockefeller. It was a guy from some rich family.

salame
02-01-2011, 10:14 PM
I give good odds that he kills a motherfucker and has to be killed himself

Rain Man
02-01-2011, 10:16 PM
Yep, Michael Rockefeller.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Rockefeller

It'd kind of stink to be born into one of the richest families in the world, and then die at 23 of something other than orgy-related fatigue.

mikey23545
02-01-2011, 10:41 PM
There are probably a lot of good reasons to stop the logging, but the fate of a handful of stone-age savages isn't one of them...

rtmike
02-01-2011, 11:22 PM
My only question is, can Muir make a right tackle out of any of them? ;)

The Pedestrian
02-01-2011, 11:30 PM
First, these pictures were likely taken by a plane or helicopter flying overhead. While they're an "uncontacted" tribe, how does seeing an airplane affect them?



It depends on what they think of the planes...in Africa during WWII, tribes that never knew about planes were known to build airplane-shaped structures out of logs and sticks in hopes of getting one to land near them.

teedubya
02-01-2011, 11:58 PM
They probably think we are GOD coming down from the heavens. I bet they tried to shower the helicopter with their gold, frankincense and Myrrh.

KC Tattoo
02-02-2011, 12:36 AM
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This would depect the best difference between civalizations. Yes the Gods must be crazy...

Later in the movie a coke bottle falls from the sky and hits a bushman in the head. lol funny movie. maybe NSFW for nudity.

listopencil
02-02-2011, 12:49 AM
Now that you mention it, the underpants thing is interesting. There's no particular reason to wear clothing in the Amazon, I think. Or if there was (e.g., mosquitoes), the motivation would be to wear more clothing. Why do they only wear clothing in the same part of the body where an American or Asian would wear clothing?

Because you can't make a civilization work when everybody can see everyone else's privates. Nothing would get done.

mcan
02-02-2011, 04:25 AM
Ill bet the guy from the tribe that makes steel for the machetes is probably the most poular guy in the whole camp. Wonder if that kid has an XBox in his hut.

eazyb81
02-02-2011, 05:35 AM
You call that a machete? THIS is a machete!



Sorry, all I got.

HonestChieffan
02-02-2011, 08:45 AM
I have a lot of doubts about this. Who can prove that wasn't taken in Iowa?

Ive seen similar stuff in St Louis down by the arch. Camera guy could be on the arch and you wouldn't know.

Same people are behind this who did the film of that guy and that other guy going to the moon place on a ladder.

Iowanian
02-02-2011, 08:49 AM
This uncontacted tribe appears to have a plastic or metal bowl in the bottom left side......

Jenson71
02-02-2011, 09:00 AM
What would I want if I were a lost tribesman?

Option 2: Contact them and let them know about civilization, but it's up to them if they want more contact.

I would want to know about all the great things the world has to offer, and be left with the choice of rejecting them or accepting them and all their consequences. [I would chose accept]

Ebolapox
02-02-2011, 09:08 AM
apparently nobody here has read "ishmael" by daniel quinn.

Otter
02-02-2011, 09:13 AM
I would want to know about all the great things the world has to offer, and be left with the choice of rejecting them or accepting them and all their consequences. [I would chose accept]

Like smallpox laced blankets, mass produced Jack Daniels and being indirectly coerced into wearing a society acceptable uniform clothing?

RUN LIKE THE WIND MY HOBBIT LIKE FRIENDS!!!

Granted their less likely to get smallpox laced blankets but you get the point.

Rain Man
02-02-2011, 09:28 AM
What would I want if I were a lost tribesman?

Option 2: Contact them and let them know about civilization, but it's up to them if they want more contact.

I would want to know about all the great things the world has to offer, and be left with the choice of rejecting them or accepting them and all their consequences. [I would chose accept]


It's a really interesting question, and is probably something our alien overlords are discussing in the interplanetary parliament right now.


If I was a tribesman, I think I'd want the same thing you're talking about - knowledge with the power to make my own decision. But that knowledge alone will fundamentally change my tribe forever, so getting the knowledge to some extent destroys my power to decide.

If I'm the outsider, do I leave them alone or not? There's probably a lot of be learned by studying them, but is it ethical to observe them secretly? And if you don't do it secretly, you're likely going to irreversibly change their culture. Do you come forward and tell them about the outside world? As noted above, doing so will probably destroy - or at least change - their culture in the long run. Or do you just declare their part of the jungle to be a refuge and leave them alone and protect them from other outside influences, which to some extent seems like you're depriving them of any benefits of civilization? And will they eventually discover the outside world anyway? Honestly, it seems like the end result of assimilation is inevitable. Maybe you can put it off a hundred years, but the end result will be assimilation.

It's an interesting ethical question about the role of government. From a cultural perspective, the more I think about it, I'd shut the region down and leave them completely alone, but study them from afar and worry about the lawsuits when they eventually find us.

loochy
02-02-2011, 09:31 AM
It's gonna end up like Star Trek Insurrection. The Westerners (the Federation) will set up a remote viewing post and we will watch the tribe from afar. However, our android will go nuts and reveal our hideout to the inhabitants. Later on, we will attempt to relocate the inhabitants to another jungle while spaceships try to destroy us.

Yeeeaaahhhh:D

C-Mac
02-02-2011, 09:33 AM
The gods must be crazy.

Red Beans
02-02-2011, 09:37 AM
Uncontacted, but yet they have managed to obtain machetes...

As for "Would you want to knowing what's going on in the greater world..." Hell no. Bob Dole wishes there was some way to flush all this shit from memory and join them in their blissful ignorance.

Presumably, they'd get a machete through trade with another tribe that wasn't uncontacted. It's not like the only way to get machetes is through a factory outlet.

loochy
02-02-2011, 09:38 AM
Presumably, they'd get a machete through trade with another tribe that wasn't uncontacted. It's not like the only way to get machetes is through a factory outlet.

But if they contacted a tribe that was contacted doesn't that make them contacted by default?

suzzer99
02-02-2011, 09:43 AM
This has all been discussed. Do any of you actually read the thread?

Talisman
02-02-2011, 09:45 AM
They'll eventually figure it out when they send the blind girl out into the jungle looking for medical supplies.

Otter
02-02-2011, 09:55 AM
Just think, we've probably already changed their society. They're probably worshiping the helicopter gods as I type.

Bearcat
02-02-2011, 10:05 AM
New reality TV show idea.... Survivor: The Big City.

Kidnap them.
Dress them in suits and give them $1000.
Split them up and drop them off in the middle of large cities around the US.
Film them for a few months.
Profit.

Red Beans
02-02-2011, 10:07 AM
This has all been discussed. Do any of you actually read the thread?

I was and then felt the need to comment. Didn't know I was required to read the entire thread before I chimed in. A simple "Repost" would work.

loochy
02-02-2011, 10:07 AM
This has all been discussed. Do any of you actually read the thread?

But dude the thread is so long and it takes so much brain power to read....if I'm using my brain to read how will I remember to breathe?

Bob Dole
02-02-2011, 10:07 AM
But if they contacted a tribe that was contacted doesn't that make them contacted by default?

Does second-hand contact cause cancer?

Rain Man
02-02-2011, 10:08 AM
New reality TV show idea.... Survivor: The Big City.

Kidnap them.
Dress them in suits and give them $1000.
Split them up and drop them off in the middle of large cities around the US.
Film them for a few months.
Profit.

It'd be kind of depressing when they all became more successful than me by the end of the show.

loochy
02-02-2011, 10:09 AM
Does second-hand contact cause cancer?

Debatable, but many think yes.

gblowfish
02-02-2011, 10:28 AM
How can we exploit them and make money off of them?

loochy
02-02-2011, 10:33 AM
How can we exploit them and make money off of them?

Get them sick, then sell them medicine.

Or we could sell them larger, shinier, sharper machetes.

Or we could blow up their big tree/home base and steal the precious minerals that sit below it.

Rain Man
02-02-2011, 12:10 PM
How can we exploit them and make money off of them?

I'm surprised it took this long to come up with that question, but good call. It sure seems to me like they'd make good fast-food workers, and they probably know nothing about minimum wage laws.

CHENZ A!
02-02-2011, 12:22 PM
Someone should feed them pizza just to see how they like it.
Posted via Mobile Device

bevischief
02-02-2011, 01:53 PM
Does second-hand contact cause cancer?

ROFL

suzzer99
02-02-2011, 01:56 PM
From the comments of the article:

From an article by David Grann of the New Yorker who has met with members of the tribe. This should help clarify...

Yet this perception was deeply misleading, and has had severe repercussions for the Indians in the region. As I document in my new book "The Lost City of Z: A Tale of Deadly Obsession in the Amazon," even today parts of the Amazon--a wilderness area virtually the size of the continental United States--remain unknown. The Brazilian government estimates that there are more than sixty tribes that are secluded in the jungle. John Hemming, the distinguished historian of Brazilian Indians, has said that these forests are almost "the only place on earth where indigenous people can survive in isolation from the rest of mankind."

The dispute over the photographs stemmed from confusion over the meaning of "uncontacted," as these groups are commonly designated. Though Meirelles had never said the tribe was unknown, many in the press had initially portrayed the group as such. In fact, like many of these tribes, the group's existence had had long been known about--its presence detected either by frontiersmen or by satellite imagery. Indeed, it is likely that many of these tribes have had some form of fleeting "contact" with outsiders over the years.

But that did not make the photographs "fakes" or a "hoax." The reason these tribes are classified as "uncontacted" is because they have retreated into the jungle and consciously avoided any interaction with settlers--an interaction that has frequently led to the extinction of Amazonian tribes.

penchief
02-02-2011, 03:42 PM
Reminds me of a movie called, Last Of The Dogmen, starring Tom Berenger and Barbara Hershey. Berenger stumbles across a tribe of Cheyenne that have eluded civilization deep in the mountains of Montana. I find the premise very interesting.

suzzer99
02-02-2011, 04:37 PM
The Emerald Forest was a movie I liked as a kid aboutan uncontacted Amazon tribe. They steal a blonde kid from a developer and when the Dad finally finds him he's mostly native.

oldandslow
02-02-2011, 05:23 PM
Like smallpox laced blankets, mass produced Jack Daniels and being indirectly coerced into wearing a society acceptable uniform clothing?

RUN LIKE THE WIND MY HOBBIT LIKE FRIENDS!!!

Granted their less likely to get smallpox laced blankets but you get the point.

This...

Groves
02-02-2011, 10:06 PM
I'm see they've already been gotten to.

http://idisk.me.com/mcgroves/Public/brazil.jpg

Saulbadguy
02-02-2011, 10:15 PM
Let's bomb the shit out of them.

WebGem
02-02-2011, 10:16 PM
Let the scientists watch them

Jayhawkerman2001
02-02-2011, 10:41 PM
i wouldnt ever think they would be metallurgists to forge a machete...

-King-
02-05-2011, 09:27 PM
Video

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</object>

googlegoogle
02-05-2011, 09:54 PM
Unubtainium

http://blog.kenperlin.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/unobtainium1.jpg

Bearcat
02-05-2011, 10:43 PM
Video


"One image has more impact than 1000 reports" ....so very true.