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View Full Version : Chiefs Who likes the Bill Muir promotion and who dont?


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CrazyHorse
02-03-2011, 03:26 PM
Just thought it might be easier to keep track with a poll.

-King-
02-03-2011, 03:27 PM
...don't see a poll...

DeezNutz
02-03-2011, 03:27 PM
Anxiously looking for the True Fan lever...

DJ's left nut
02-03-2011, 03:29 PM
DUDE!

Poll fail - callout posts require the poll to be public.

You suck at life.

BigMeatballDave
02-03-2011, 03:30 PM
At this point, I have no opinion.

I choose to at least wait to see if the O struggles next season before I start hemorrhaging out my vagina.

DeezNutz
02-03-2011, 03:31 PM
Yep. Post another one with the public option, and this thing will die.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 03:32 PM
Anxiously looking for the True Fan lever...

What is a true fan?

SNR
02-03-2011, 03:33 PM
Make the poll results public.

We're taking down names of these assholes

dirk digler
02-03-2011, 03:36 PM
Anyone that thinks Muir is a good promotion to OC need their head examined

-King-
02-03-2011, 03:36 PM
What is a true fan?

People who support every little move the team makes even if it's a terrible one. Like this move here.


FWIW, I have no problem with Haley calling plays, I have a problem with Muir even having 1% say in the game plan.

ElGringo
02-03-2011, 03:41 PM
Don't like the options, I like the move because it tells us where the team is at, and where it is going. If we fail miserably next year, dump Haley and bring in a coach that can work with an OC. If we come out with a playoff caliber team, keep Haley, Muir, and just keep things moving in this direction. While I hope the last option is true, I believe the first option is more accurate.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 03:44 PM
Haley is the head coach...

This might be his one shot as NFL head coach...

if he wants to call the plays on his team...I am all for it.

If he sucks, they'll can him...if not...then good hire.

It's Haley's team so I don't mind the promotion...Haley is going to call the plays.

Mr. Laz
02-03-2011, 03:48 PM
People who support every little move the team makes even if it's a terrible one. Like this move here.


FWIW, I have no problem with Haley calling plays, I have a problem with Muir even having 1% say in the game plan.i'm not sure he will have any say. I'm not so sure that Muir is simple a "quality control/paper pusher".

Haley will decide what he wants done and then tell Muir what to do. Haley will call the plays while Muir deals with the offensive line.

bigger question is who is going to coach the QB's not the Oline

imo

CrazyHorse
02-03-2011, 03:50 PM
Yep. Post another one with the public option, and this thing will die.



Go ahead Deez' you can add a couple options too if ya want. Just keep it simple or it gets too diluted.

-King-
02-03-2011, 03:51 PM
i'm not sure he will have any say. I'm not so sure that Muir is simple a "quality control/paper pusher".

Haley will decide what he wants done and then tell Muir what to do. Haley will call the plays while Muir deals with the offensive line.

bigger question is who is going to coach the QB's not the Oline

imo

Nick siriani is the quality contol coach.
Posted via Mobile Device

CrazyHorse
02-03-2011, 03:53 PM
Why so much speculation, then arguing like its fact? You people dont know shit.

DeezNutz
02-03-2011, 03:53 PM
Go ahead Deez' you can add a couple options too if ya want. Just keep it simple or it gets too diluted.

That's ok, man. Actually, avoiding the hindsight finger pointing is probably the best route, upon further consideration.

Fruit Ninja
02-03-2011, 03:53 PM
Not going to vote, going to do a write in. Haley wants his playbook and his plays. The guy is just going to coach them. Haley wants to call plays, and i dont mind that.

suds79
02-03-2011, 03:56 PM
Ugh. Not really the vote option I was looking for.

I can't say I'm encouraged by it. But at the same time if Todd wants to run the show, fine. Just get it done. We know he's a great offensive mind.

Better that than him bringing somebody in and they fight all year long over control.

This way it's clear who's running the offense.

MIAdragon
02-03-2011, 04:06 PM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/Vomit.gif

eazyb81
02-03-2011, 04:09 PM
Sure, it COULD work out perfectly, but how could anyone honestly like it at face value right now?

Molitoth
02-03-2011, 04:11 PM
Haley will call the plays.... and I'm fine with that. Year 1 the whole f()Cking team sucked and thier was Zero chemistry, so I won't count that against Haley's playcalling.

Okie_Apparition
02-03-2011, 04:25 PM
I am fine with it because it could mean Clark put his foot down. Haley is on his 2nd D coordinator and now shopping for his 3rd O coordinator. Hunt shelled out plenty for Weis and Crennel and that is enough. Haley could probably only afford to hire a first timer or last a last chance option. And I doubt Pioli could guarantee a job beyond 1 year.

End of the rope Todd. Hang yourself if you must but the cash cow has dried up.

notorious
02-03-2011, 04:30 PM
What is a true fan?

LOL

This is fucking awesome.

kstater
02-03-2011, 04:33 PM
That's ok, man. Actually, avoiding the hindsight finger pointing is probably the best route, upon further consideration.

I think we found an option 1 voter.

notorious
02-03-2011, 04:33 PM
http://i56.tinypic.com/a4wwp1.png


I can't let my 2 minutes of work go to waste :)

Shogun
02-03-2011, 04:33 PM
I voted yes. Obviously everything was going to change with Weis leaving. I feel more comfortable knowing that puppet Muir is firmiliar with how this whole thing works, gameplanning and calling the plays and he isnt new with the NFL. He is obviously doing something alright if he has had a job in the NFL for 30+ years. And I trust Haley, I like his rash decisions, all of the 4th down play calls. I like his swag, So I'm gonna roll with it and hope he does his thing and leads up to victory and give Jamaal some more fucking carries.

WV
02-03-2011, 04:35 PM
I don't necessarily like it, but I'm not ready to get on the ledge with a lot of others. I'm willing to give it a chance.

DeezNutz
02-03-2011, 04:38 PM
I think we found an option 1 voter.

HaydenWPI said not to go sucking Haley cock after the Chiefs go 11-5 next year, so I thought it best to start now.

Rain Man
02-03-2011, 04:40 PM
Whatever Scott and Todd want is okay by me. They've made great progress so far and I have no reason to doubt them.

Detoxing
02-03-2011, 04:41 PM
I dont like it.

Bill Muir adds nothing new to the team. I am not confident in his ability to scheme. I do however think that Todd Haley will do just fine calling the plays, but we're going to see the angry, pissed at everyone and screaming like a maniac Todd that we saw in 09.

He's going to be spread to thin because he won't be happy with what Muir devises and will probably drastically modify what he puts together every week. Screaming at players will occur and the team will get stressed out and not play comfortably. It's a ticking time bomb waiting to happen.

But hold on a second....

IF, and a BIG IF, the play calling is divided up, it MIGHT not be so bad. If Muir calls the run plays and Haley becomes the PASSING game coordinator like he was in Dallas, it might not be too bad.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 04:44 PM
In 2009, Haley was a first time head coach with a bunch of guys who weren't quite sold coaching guys who were unfamiliar with his system, unfamiliar with his expectations, etc. etc. etc.

People are being a bit naive if they think Todd Haley is going to be the same guy in 2011 as he was in 2009.

the Talking Can
02-03-2011, 04:45 PM
it doesn't really matter which 205 year old Haley hires to wipe his ass...


this all rests on Haley

DaFace
02-03-2011, 04:46 PM
I don't necessarily like it, but I'm not ready to get on the ledge with a lot of others. I'm willing to give it a chance.

I am quoting this post to indicate my agreement with its contents.

Detoxing
02-03-2011, 04:47 PM
You know, now that I think about it....

If Muir is devising the running game every week and Haley is scheming the passing game...maybe it wont be a disaster. Lets see if they bring in a QB coach. My worry is that Haley may be too abrasive to get through to Cassel.

KC Tattoo
02-03-2011, 04:47 PM
He is 70yo. other than that.....

I'm not going to go homeristic over the hire. I still am going to be optimistic with the direction we are headed, provided we have a good draft and guys step up huge for us that we drafted the last few years.

I'm sure we will be in the same situation next year with hireing another OC so he is a filller for the next guy imo. Haley is going to be calling the shots.

I would think a HC would be making most of the game planning and let the OC have at it on game day play calling. That would make most since to me.

WTF?!?!? If Muir is compitant fine, but mid season and he has a heart attack or just keels over dead from being OLD then again we will be looking for a new OC.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 04:48 PM
it doesn't really matter which 205 year old Haley hires to wipe his ass...


this all rests on Haley

and I don't see the problem with that

this is his team, this is his shot...he may never get another

I have no problem with a head coach calling the shots...that's why he's paid.

Referencing his 2009 is stupid if you ask me...we're a different team with different personnel with guys who know what to expect.

patteeu
02-03-2011, 04:50 PM
Haley is the head coach...

This might be his one shot as NFL head coach...

if he wants to call the plays on his team...I am all for it.

If he sucks, they'll can him...if not...then good hire.

It's Haley's team so I don't mind the promotion...Haley is going to call the plays.

Whatever Scott and Todd want is okay by me. They've made great progress so far and I have no reason to doubt them.

I agree with these. If Haley wants to call the plays, I'm OK with it. I think it's great that he's going to have someone focused on O-coordination and gameplanning throughout the week so he can attend to head coaching matters (unlike his first season here), but on gameday I'm fine with him calling the plays. And I also like the fact that a Muir hire means relative consistency going forward for the guys who have been in the system for the past couple of years.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-03-2011, 05:00 PM
This poll outcome would be no different if Todd Haley hired badgirl as the OC.

Rain Man
02-03-2011, 05:03 PM
WTF?!?!? If Muir is compitant fine, but mid season and he has a heart attack or just keels over dead from being OLD then again we will be looking for a new OC.


It's progress that we have a season where people aren't wishing the OC would keel over and die.

-King-
02-03-2011, 05:04 PM
This poll outcome would be no different if Todd Haley hired badgirl as the OC.

If you met Bill Muir in person and didn't know he was the OC, you would never guess he was the OC.

DeezNutz
02-03-2011, 05:04 PM
The third option shows that people aren't entirely plugged into the situation because Muir is coaching the line. There's no such thing as "not sure" in this situation.

And, again, no one gives a shit about Haley calling plays, at least not in isolation. The problem is that a HC is supposed to manage the game on Sundays, first and foremost, and Haley was a fucking disaster at this in '09.

CoMoChief
02-03-2011, 05:06 PM
Well, IMO we've been down this road w/ Solari....and he ended up becoming the next Greg Robinson of asst coach bashing.

I see this as Haley's "yes sir" hire to be completely honest. Haley can't and won't keep his fingers off of the playcalling (don't know if that's a good or bad thing).

I don't like the hire(promotion) one bit.....but I'm willing to see what happens. I wish we had a different QB.

DaneMcCloud
02-03-2011, 05:08 PM
Haley is the head coach...

This might be his one shot as NFL head coach...

if he wants to call the plays on his team...I am all for it.

If he sucks, they'll can him...if not...then good hire.

It's Haley's team so I don't mind the promotion...Haley is going to call the plays.

I don't necessarily mind that Haley will be calling the plays and I fully expect(ed) that to be the case.

The problem I have is with the man he hired. He's 69 years old and was a below average offensive line coach AND a below average offensive coordinator.

I'd have rather seen Nick Sirianni or any number of young coaches get the gig, even under the same exact circumstances.

DaneMcCloud
02-03-2011, 05:11 PM
This poll outcome would be no different if Todd Haley hired badgirl as the OC.

LMAO

NWTF
02-03-2011, 05:12 PM
Haley is the head coach...

This might be his one shot as NFL head coach...

if he wants to call the plays on his team...I am all for it.

If he sucks, they'll can him...if not...then good hire.

It's Haley's team so I don't mind the promotion...Haley is going to call the plays.


Thats pretty much the way I see it. Everyone should have known this is the way Haley wanted it.

He is the HC, but is an OC at heart. He feels he can be HC and OC and succeed.

He deserves the chance to do it his way. Time will tell if he bit off more than he can chew.

JASONSAUTO
02-03-2011, 05:14 PM
I agree with this....

I don't necessarily mind that Haley will be calling the plays and I fully expect(ed) that to be the case.

The problem I have is with the man he hired. He's 69 years old and was a below average offensive line coach AND a below average offensive coordinator.

I'd have rather seen Nick Sirianni or any number of young coaches get the gig, even under the same exact circumstances.
Posted via Mobile Device

doomy3
02-03-2011, 05:15 PM
I hate it.

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 05:17 PM
I hate it bc Muir should have been fired from his OL job. Now we are letting him be the OC.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 05:21 PM
why should anyone have been fired for anything this year?

88TG88
02-03-2011, 05:31 PM
IDK if this has been mentioned, but this is the Mike Solari experiment all over again. It wont end well.

DaneMcCloud
02-03-2011, 05:31 PM
why should anyone have been fired for anything this year?

The offensive lineman, especially Brendan Albert, have regressed since Muir was hired. Richardson, despite his ideal size and strength, has not progressed as expected. Jon Asamoah, a four year starter and rated the second best lineman in the draft, only started one game.

The receiving corp, outside of Bowe, was fairly awful. Bowe had a career year but it's not like it was "Out of the Blue". He'd been a 1,000 yard receiver with Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle and Tyler Thigpen as his QB.

The running backs were misused all year long.

With that in mind, I could have easily seen Haley dismiss Muir, Parmalee and Carthon, yet Muir was promoted.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 05:34 PM
Nah.

Albert may just be a bust...and Richardson was a 6th round pick for crying out loud.

Asamoah is a rookie playing behind veterans (Waters, Lilja)...nothing wrong with that.

The line was inconsistent, sure...but I don't think anyone deserves to be fired after that season...especially, Dane, when you yourself predicted an 0-6 start to the season.

So yeah.

JASONSAUTO
02-03-2011, 05:34 PM
IDK if this has been mentioned, but this is the Mike Solari experiment all over again. It wont end well.

It has been mentioned, but imo the two situations couldn't be more different.

not a fan of the move though
Posted via Mobile Device

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 05:35 PM
and the Solari comparisons are garbage...

Solari was calling the plays, Muir will not.

Quick

Quick

who is the offensive coordinator of the Saints? Packers?

DaneMcCloud
02-03-2011, 05:37 PM
Nah.

Albert may just be a bust...and Richardson was a 6th round pick for crying out loud.

Asamoah is a rookie playing behind veterans (Waters, Lilja)...nothing wrong with that.

The line was inconsistent, sure...but I don't think anyone deserves to be fired after that season...especially, Dane, when you yourself predicted an 0-6 start to the season.

So yeah.

First off, I didn't "predict" it. It was just a flip comment that YOU picked up on. As a matter of fact, I "predicted" 7-9.

Secondly, you're freakin' nuts if you don't think that Albert has regressed and that Richardson "should" be further along. Asamoah was just as efficient and successful starting and playing in place of both Waters and Lilja (as a rookie, to boot), yet he was relegated to back up status.

Further to that, I'd like you to provide examples of how the running backs weren't mishandled and which receivers outside of the enormously talented Dwayne Bowe, made strides this past year.

SNR
02-03-2011, 05:40 PM
Nah.

Albert may just be a bust...and Richardson was a 6th round pick for crying out loud.

Asamoah is a rookie playing behind veterans (Waters, Lilja)...nothing wrong with that.

The line was inconsistent, sure...but I don't think anyone deserves to be fired after that season...especially, Dane, when you yourself predicted an 0-6 start to the season.

So yeah.Albert had a solid rookie year in 2008 playing LT in an offense with which he was unfamiliar (Virginia wasn't a pistol spread).

So what gives? His regression is due to the playbook?

DaneMcCloud
02-03-2011, 05:40 PM
Albert had a solid rookie year in 2008 playing LT in an offense with which he was unfamiliar (Virginia wasn't a pistol spread).

So what gives? His regression is due to the playbook?

He's a bust.

Hootie and Sac told me so.

DeezNutz
02-03-2011, 05:41 PM
and the Solari comparisons are garbage...

Solari was calling the plays, Muir will not.

Quick

Quick

who is the offensive coordinator of the Saints? Packers?

Quick

Quick

Who are the QBs for those teams?

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 05:43 PM
the RB ordeal was frustrating in some games...but when it came down to it...when it really mattered...who was getting the carries? Jamaal. Jamaal was our featured player in the PLAYOFF game...Jones barely saw any touches.

I have no problem keeping wear and tear off Charles while he's putting up All-Pro seasons. Thomas Jones was also pretty good for 2/3 of the season...until he totally wore down towards the end.

and who did you expect to be a good receiver other than Bowe? Tucker looked ok for a minute or two and Bowe made HUGE strides this year...so there's that.

But you guys will bitch to bitch...

Seriously...

who's the Saints offensive coordinator?

Packers (who are in the Super Bowl)?

DO IT WITHOUT GOOGLE

This promotion means diddly...Haley is the OC and the HC...the Saints won a Super Bowl with a coach like that, and the Packers are in the Super Bowl this year with a coach like that...

so keep crying over spilled milk

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 05:43 PM
Quick

Quick

Who are the QBs for those teams?

...and?

That's a whole different argument dildo.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 05:45 PM
He's a bust.

Hootie and Sac told me so.

perhaps he should just be playing guard...like he did when he excelled in college

besides...he was a liability in pass protection but he was still solid in the run game...

either way...good games and bad games...inconsistent...doesn't mean Muir isn't doing his job for crying out loud

the same people are bitching just to bitch

The Chiefs just won the division and people want coaches to be fired...the same people who predicted this team to have little success this season.

Riiiight.

SNR
02-03-2011, 05:46 PM
the RB ordeal was frustrating in some games...but when it came down to it...when it really mattered...who was getting the carries? Jamaal. Jamaal was our featured player in the PLAYOFF game...Jones barely saw any touches.

I have no problem keeping wear and tear off Charles while he's putting up All-Pro seasons. Thomas Jones was also pretty good for 2/3 of the season...until he totally wore down towards the end.

and who did you expect to be a good receiver other than Bowe? Tucker looked ok for a minute or two and Bowe made HUGE strides this year...so there's that.

But you guys will bitch to bitch...

Seriously...

who's the Saints offensive coordinator?

Packers (who are in the Super Bowl)?

DO IT WITHOUT GOOGLE

This promotion means diddly...Haley is the OC and the HC...the Saints won a Super Bowl with a coach like that, and the Packers are in the Super Bowl this year with a coach like that...

so keep crying over spilled milkPete Carmichael Jr. and Joe Philbin.

What do I win?

(swear I didn't cheat)

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 05:47 PM
Quick TMD, tell me who the OC is for the Jags and Colts. No cheating.

Urc Burry
02-03-2011, 05:48 PM
Don't really like it, but we didn't exactly have a lot of options...

SNR
02-03-2011, 05:49 PM
Quick TMD, tell me who the OC is for the Jags and Colts. No cheating.
Dirk Koetter and Tom Moore

HE'S ON FIRE!!

SNR
02-03-2011, 05:50 PM
Just don't ask me some shit like the Bills or the Cardinals. Or the Giants. I don't know that one either

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 05:51 PM
Dirk Koetter and Tom Moore

HE'S ON FIRE!!

Wrong. Moore isn't the OC anymore..

But the OC for the Colts was the OC in Tampa before Muir.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 05:52 PM
Just don't ask me some shit like the Bills or the Cardinals. Or the Giants. I don't know that one either

Fine, who is the OC for the Dolphins? Vikings?

SNR
02-03-2011, 05:53 PM
Wrong. Moore isn't the OC anymore..

But the OC for the Colts was the OC in Tampa before Muir.Fuck just looked it up. Clyde Christenson.

Whatever. I still got Dirk Koetter. I declare victory anyway

SNR
02-03-2011, 05:54 PM
Fine, who is the OC for the Dolphins? Vikings?Don't know the Dolphins. And the Vikings just hired Musgrave

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 05:54 PM
**** just looked it up. Clyde Christenson.

Whatever. I still got Dirk Koetter. I declare victory anyway

You haven't yet until you tell me who the OC is for the Lions.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 05:54 PM
Don't know the Dolphins. And the Vikings just hired Musgrave

Brian Daboll.

DaneMcCloud
02-03-2011, 05:55 PM
You haven't yet until you tell me who the OC is for the Lions.

Your guy: Scott Linehan.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 05:55 PM
fair enough

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 05:55 PM
Fine, who is the OC for the Dolphins? Vikings?

Vikings just hired Bill Musgrave.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 05:56 PM
Your guy: Scott Linehan.

Can we actually make a game out of this?

And yes, you are correct. I admit that as bad as a HC that Linehan was, he is a decent when he has some talent. He made Stanton look like a good QB FFS.

SNR
02-03-2011, 05:56 PM
You haven't yet until you tell me who the OC is for the Lions.Dane is correct.

I live in NFC North country. I live and breathe this shit. It's all that comes on local sports talk. Do not play games with me. I will eat you.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 05:56 PM
damn if SNR isn't cheating he knows his coaches...not bad, not bad at all

-King-
02-03-2011, 05:57 PM
Who was the O line coach for the Packers in 1978?

QUICK
QUICK

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 05:57 PM
We're not done yet, folks. Quick, who is the OC for the Ravens? Cardinals?

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 05:58 PM
Who is the OC of the Eagles? Texans?

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 05:58 PM
We're not done yet, folks. Quick, who is the OC for the Ravens? Cardinals?

Cam Cameron for the Ravens.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 05:59 PM
Ravens is Cam Cameron.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 05:59 PM
Cam Cameron for the Ravens.

Ravens is Cam Cameron.

CC wins this round. TMD gets 2nd place. Who is the OC for Da Bears?

tk13
02-03-2011, 06:00 PM
I haven't really had time to read through all the reaction, but it seems mostly negative. I can't say it's very exciting, but I do think it's a lot different than Solari because Solari's only check and balance was Herm, who didn't know offense.

I think this is pretty much Haley putting his own head on the chopping block to sink or swim. Good luck.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 06:00 PM
Eagles/Texans/Cardinals are all kind of "who cares" and proving my point...I believe all of those coaches call their own plays...or at least did at one time. (Not sure if Whisenhunt still does...I thought he took them back over when Haley left)

-King-
02-03-2011, 06:00 PM
Who is the OC of the Eagles? Texans?

Kubiak for the Texans

Eagles is the guy old head coach for the Lions who deferred in OVERTIME I think. I can't remember his name though.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 06:00 PM
Martz...some are too easy to even ask

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:00 PM
Martz is the Bears.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 06:00 PM
Morningwheg or however you spell it...

-King-
02-03-2011, 06:00 PM
CC wins this round. TMD gets 2nd place. Who is the OC for Da Bears?

Martz

SNR
02-03-2011, 06:00 PM
Marty Mohrningweg or however you spell it for the Eagles.

Rick Dennison for the Texans

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:01 PM
Kubiak for the Texans

Eagles is the guy old head coach for the Lions who deferred in OVERTIME I think. I can't remember his name though.

Marty Morenwheing or however the fuck you can spell it.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:01 PM
Eagles/Texans/Cardinals are all kind of "who cares" and proving my point...I believe all of those coaches call their own plays...or at least did at one time. (Not sure if Whisenhunt still does...I thought he took them back over when Haley left)

Disagree about the Eagles and Cardinals. If Haley wants to do what I think he is going to do(have a run game coordinator and have himself as passing game), he'll be like the Cardinals(who have Grimm and Miller as co-OCs). Morningwhig will get a HC job again eventually.

-King-
02-03-2011, 06:01 PM
Marty Mohrningweg or however you spell it for the Eagles.

Rick Dennison for the Texans

Dammit. I was thinking of the HC. Kubiak calls the plays though right?

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 06:01 PM
well one thing is certain...none of us can spell it

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:01 PM
Thats creepy that 3 people posted however you can spell it. Lol

-King-
02-03-2011, 06:02 PM
well one thing is certain...none of us can spell it

Thats creepy that 3 people posted however you can spell it. Lol

ROFL

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:02 PM
Okay, we're taking this to the other side of the ball. Who is the DC for the Rams? Jets?

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 06:03 PM
ANYWAYS

Muir is just the way of the Chiefs answering their "void" and moving on with Haley as OC...

I'd say "wow I can't believe there is such a big fuss over this all" but then I'd remember I'm on ChiefsPlanet so it would be a dumb thing to say.

-King-
02-03-2011, 06:03 PM
Okay, we're taking this to the other side of the ball. Who is the DC for the Rams? Jets?

Dunno Rams.

Pettine for the Jets.

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:03 PM
Mike Pettine is the Jets.

-King-
02-03-2011, 06:04 PM
ANYWAYS

Muir is just the way of the Chiefs answering their "void" and moving on with Haley as OC...

I'd say "wow I can't believe there is such a big fuss over this all" but then I'd remember I'm on ChiefsPlanet so it would be a dumb thing to say.

Whoa whoa whoa. Stay on topic man. This is now a coaching trivia thread.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:04 PM
Dunno Rams.

Pettine for the Jets.

Pettine is correct. King wins that. Who is the DC for the Rams, though? Falcons?

SNR
02-03-2011, 06:05 PM
Name all the teams who have hired Ted Cottrell as a defensive coordinator

DeezNutz
02-03-2011, 06:05 PM
...and?

That's a whole different argument dildo.

No, it's not.

The implication is that these are successful HCs who also serve as OCs. The problem with your logic is that they also have ridiculously good QBs.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:05 PM
Name all the teams who have hired Ted Cottrell as a defensive coordinator

DON'T TAKE MY REIGN.

Jets?

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:06 PM
Still not done with DCs currently in the NFL. This coordinator was previously the DC in Buffalo.

SNR
02-03-2011, 06:06 PM
DON'T TAKE MY REIGN.

Jets?That's one.

You need three more

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:06 PM
Name all the teams who have hired Ted Cottrell as a defensive coordinator

Jets, Bills, Bears, Redskins?

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:07 PM
DC for Da Bears.

SNR
02-03-2011, 06:07 PM
Jets, Bills, Bears, Redskins?First two yes. Second two no.

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:08 PM
Crap not Bears & Redskins thats Greg Blache I am thinking of. I want to say Minnesota.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 06:08 PM
No, it's not.

The implication is that these are successful HCs who also serve as OCs. The problem with your logic is that they also have ridiculously good QBs.

so essentially teams don't need any coaches whatsoever as long as they have all-pro QB's

got it

so Herm Edwards and Mike Solari would have won 12+ games every year with Peyton Manning at QB...

(I think that would probably be the case actually)...

so fine

lets fire everyone and draft for a franchise QB until we find one...every pick, every round...until on works

that's basically what you're implying

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:09 PM
Okay, this DC is a twin of a HC.

SNR
02-03-2011, 06:10 PM
Crap not Bears & Redskins thats Greg Blache I am thinking of. I want to say Minnesota.
Minnesota is correct.

Last one is the Chargers just a few years ago

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-03-2011, 06:10 PM
so essentially teams don't need any coaches whatsoever as long as they have all-pro QB's

Yet another case where a supposedly worthless college logic course would have helped you.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 06:10 PM
Okay, this DC is a twin of a HC.

god damnit dude this is easy and no one fucking cares

SNR
02-03-2011, 06:11 PM
Okay, this DC is a twin of a HC.Rex Ryan's brother. Whatever his name is

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-03-2011, 06:11 PM
Okay, this DC is a twin of a HC.

Rob Ryan.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:11 PM
Minnesota is correct.

Last one is the Chargers just a few years ago

I feel like an idiot. I remember Rivera replacing him mid season in '08.

DaFace
02-03-2011, 06:11 PM
I have a feeling this gif and me are going to become close friends this offseason.

http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx97/JML9999/oh-noes-everybody-panic.gif

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:11 PM
Are any of you still stumped on the Rams DC? I bet no one has heard his name before. It's a cool last name, though.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:12 PM
Oh and who is the DC of the Seahawks.

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 06:13 PM
Yet another case where a supposedly worthless college logic course would have helped you.

why?

that's what he's saying

Payton and McCarthy are anomalies because they have all-pro QB's and anyone would be successful with those guys at the helm...

SNR
02-03-2011, 06:13 PM
I have a feeling this gif and me are going to become close friends this offseason.

http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx97/JML9999/oh-noes-everybody-panic.gifShut up and name me all the offensive coordinators in Carolina Panther history!

BossChief
02-03-2011, 06:14 PM
I'm not thrilled one bit. This was an opportunity to upgrade the staff and vying in a premium guy to work with Cassel and we ended up taking a step back IMO.

Us taking the next step as a team next year depended on three major things IMO...

Getting a Weis replacement that xan keep Cassel improving and making strides
Getting a NT that can command the double and collapse the pocket
Adding a Lolb that can rush the passer and stop the run.

We failed to fulfill the first requirement.

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:14 PM
Are any of you still stumped on the Rams DC? I bet no one has heard his name before. It's a cool last name, though.

Its Klapjack or something gay like that.

SNR
02-03-2011, 06:15 PM
Are any of you still stumped on the Rams DC? I bet no one has heard his name before. It's a cool last name, though.I cheated and looked it up, so I'm not going to answer.

Oh, and Gus Bradley

Short Leash Hootie
02-03-2011, 06:15 PM
so you're assuming Weis (a guy who can barely walk on his own) was the reason Cassel progressed this year?

I don't think our offense will regress one bit without Charlie freaking Weis.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:16 PM
Its Klapjack or something gay like that.

Shut up and name me all the offensive coordinators in Carolina Panther history!

Two off the top of my head, Musgrave and Davidson.

No, it's not like Klapack.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:16 PM
I cheated and looked it up, so I'm not going to answer.

Oh, and Gus Bradley

Weird name, eh?

SNR
02-03-2011, 06:17 PM
Two off the top of my head, Musgrave and Davidson.

No, it's not like Klapack.Magicjack!
Flapjack!
Carjack!
Rapejack!

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-03-2011, 06:18 PM
why?

that's what he's saying

Payton and McCarthy are anomalies because they have all-pro QB's and anyone would be successful with those guys at the helm...

No, you're making a sweeping generalization that because he claimed a HC who calls plays and has a great QB isn't in the same situation as a non "CEO QB" as some have called it, that he claimed great QBs don't need any coach at all.

It's a fallacy.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:22 PM
This DC replaced a DC legend.

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:25 PM
Rams - Ken Flajole

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:26 PM
Rams - Ken Flajole

You googled it, didn't ya?

And that is correct. Formerly the LB Coach of the Panthers.

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:27 PM
You googled it, didn't ya?

And that is correct. Formerly the LB Coach of the Panthers.

Yes I did. ;)

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:28 PM
Here's an interesting question:
Name HCs that are currently in the NFL that have been assistants under Andy Reid.

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:29 PM
Harbaugh
Spags
Rivera
Leslie Frazier

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:30 PM
Harbaugh
Spags
Rivera
Leslie Frazier

You're forgetting someone...

Ebolapox
02-03-2011, 06:34 PM
I'll put it this way: I fully expect for us to have a different OC next year (and possibly head coach if we revert, which we will, or crash HARD).

SNR
02-03-2011, 06:38 PM
Jim Johnson.

Oh you said current HCs. Not current dead people. My bad.





(Yes, it was over the top poor taste on purpose. Lighten up)

DeezNutz
02-03-2011, 06:39 PM
so essentially teams don't need any coaches whatsoever as long as they have all-pro QB's

got it


Yeah, you "got" nothing, but you did take an enormous leap.

High-quality QBs can mask some of the deficiencies of an otherwise sub-par OC. There's no question about that.

But the other major problem with cherry picking these examples is that the fundamental concern with Haley is his ability to delegate power.

If a HC is also to be a successful OC, he must be able to hand a large portion of game-day responsibility to someone else. We have EXTREMELY little evidence of Haley being capable of doing this.

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:43 PM
You're forgetting someone...

Did your old OC coach under Reid?

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:45 PM
Did your old OC coach under Reid?

Yep. And that was the HC you were missing. Next up, how many past and current HCs served as DC under Billick?

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:49 PM
Rex Ryan
Marvin Lewis
Mike Smith
and was Jack Del Rio on the Ravens staff at one time?

bevischief
02-03-2011, 06:51 PM
This could be bad, could be good I will wait till we see if they make the post-season to make a decision. At this point I don't think it was wise to go this route. If we end up worse than this year I will be all aboard with calling for heads roll. Including Haley's...

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:52 PM
Rex Ryan
Marvin Lewis
Mike Smith
and was Jack Del Rio on the Ravens staff at one time?

Yes about Del Rio. You're still missing one name, though. Those are current HCs. There are two more guys who were previously coaches under Billick(one of which was as DC).

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 06:55 PM
Singeltary was one former HC I know.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 06:57 PM
Singeltary was one former HC I know.

That is correct. The other one was Nolan. How many current(and two that were fired within the past 2 months) HCs were on the 1985 Bears team?

ChiefsCountry
02-03-2011, 07:02 PM
Fisher
Singenltary
Rivera

Wallcrawler
02-03-2011, 07:03 PM
I figured a hire like this would come up. I cant really see any confident, and competent OC candidate wanting to come into KC knowing full well that they would have Haley breathing down their neck all season long. If Haley is up to the task this time around, I have no problem with it. He's a good offensive mind, so we know that the offense isnt soley being given over to an O-line coach to play real life Madden on Sundays.

The biggest loss in Weis departure is that constant, solid coaching that Matt Cassel received. He improved, for sure. However, he's nowhere near a finished product. Without Weis there, and seemingly nobody there to step into the QB coach role, we could either see no improvement at all, or possibly even a regression from Matt Cassel. If that happens with a legit schedule, we are probably looking at a .500 team again. Cassel has to get better.


As mentioned before, I also think that Muir is probably going to coordinate the rushing attack, and Haley will scheme the passing game.

Overall, im not really thrilled with the promotion, but like many others I feel like this is Haley's team and they went from dead last in the division to winning the division and securing a playoff spot. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Rams Fan
02-03-2011, 07:03 PM
Fisher
Singenltary
Rivera

There's one more.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-03-2011, 07:57 PM
There's one more.

The Hitman Gary Fencik?
Steve Mongo McMichael?

KurtCobain
02-03-2011, 08:07 PM
I like Haley and I'm nervous about him doing this with such a tough scedule coming up. He's putting the world on his shoulders obviously, and if they Chiefs lose a couple of more games next year than they did this year, he's probably gone because it's all on him. And with the schedule we could be 7-9 next year and be a better team.

chiefzilla1501
02-03-2011, 08:15 PM
Not a fan, but not going to judge until I see how it works out.

DaneMcCloud
02-03-2011, 08:31 PM
Not a fan, but not going to judge until I see how it works out.

Way to make a stand

chuxtrux
02-03-2011, 08:34 PM
The offensive lineman, especially Brendan Albert, have regressed since Muir was hired. Richardson, despite his ideal size and strength, has not progressed as expected. Jon Asamoah, a four year starter and rated the second best lineman in the draft, only started one game.

The receiving corp, outside of Bowe, was fairly awful. Bowe had a career year but it's not like it was "Out of the Blue". He'd been a 1,000 yard receiver with Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle and Tyler Thigpen as his QB.

The running backs were misused all year long.

With that in mind, I could have easily seen Haley dismiss Muir, Parmalee and Carthon, yet Muir was promoted.

You can't put Albert fully on Muir. If you really want to blame someone, blame Haley because he made BA slim down and play OT a different way than he did his rookie year. I think Haley was justified because Albert's ceiling playing the old way wasn't that high. I thought the last few games his second year he made great strides but for whatever reason that didn't carry over this year. It could have been coaching, or it could have been it was because BA had a nagging injury that got worse throughout the year which was why he looked so slow the last two games. As for Richardson, I don't understand why people on here can't grasp that maybe he just isn't very good and there was a reason, despite his size and athleticism, he fell to the middle rounds.

Look, maybe you're right, maybe Bill Muir is a terrible o-line coach. Maybe he falls asleep during games and forgets to coach. Maybe he makes the team watch 1920's silent movies when they should be studying film during the week. I don't know. I am not around the team that much anymore. The thing I don't understand is how everyone here has such strong reactions to this move yet they know so little about the guy. By all accounts he is pretty respected around the NFL.

J Diddy
02-03-2011, 08:35 PM
Way to make a stand


I think he sucks. Unless he's good.

wazu
02-03-2011, 08:35 PM
HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

J Diddy
02-03-2011, 08:37 PM
I don't think it makes a shit either way. haley will be running the offense. He just needs a puppet in title only to help with meetings. Hence why Muir is still coaching the O line.

Ugly Duck
02-03-2011, 08:38 PM
I like it. Looks almost as aware as Tom Cable.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/89728300.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921CC759DF4EBAC47D05FBE77969E94AD4A2C4B3F050FEC8E23B2C1BB7CC48070FBE30A760B0D811297

J Diddy
02-03-2011, 08:39 PM
I like it. Looks almost as aware as Tom Cable.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/89728300.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921CC759DF4EBAC47D05FBE77969E94AD4A2C4B3F050FEC8E23B2C1BB7CC48070FBE30A760B0D811297

Dude that' some scary shit right there. Looks like al davis' nephew.

trndobrd
02-03-2011, 09:56 PM
Looking on the bright side, I suppose this is better than bringing Jimmy Raye back.

vailpass
02-03-2011, 09:58 PM
Why are some of you not happy? Mullet Haley was hired because of his OC skills. Now you get to see them. Plenty of history shows this sort of arrangement works with the right man, now you have your chance. From the visitor opponent perpsective I'm not convinced this is a bad move.

KCBOSS1
02-03-2011, 10:10 PM
I haven't seen any outside coordinators that I've been excited about apart from Al Saunders. Ahh, we'll see. All of the whining is useless. No doubt he has a huge football resume. But nobody before thought he should be an OC.

DaneMcCloud
02-03-2011, 10:18 PM
I haven't seen any outside coordinators that I've been excited about apart from Al Saunders. Ahh, we'll see. All of the whining is useless. No doubt he has a huge football resume. But nobody before thought he should be an OC.

Yep.

That Josh McDaniels guy sucks, so did Weis. Did you see his playcalling Sundays? Sometimes it was great and sometimes it was awful, like he wasn't even calling the plays!

Good riddance and welcome Mr. Muir!

doomy3
02-03-2011, 10:25 PM
Why are some of you not happy? Mullet Haley was hired because of his OC skills. Now you get to see them. Plenty of history shows this sort of arrangement works with the right man, now you have your chance. From the visitor opponent perpsective I'm not convinced this is a bad move.

We're not happy because we've seen it. He was a total failure in this role in 2009, and unless there is a major overhaul at almost every offensive position, our team isn't even built for the kind of passing offense he likes to call.

That would require a line that can give a QB time to drop back 5-7 steps, receivers who can get open, and a QB that can complete downfield passes.

KCBOSS1
02-03-2011, 10:29 PM
Look, Haley & Pioli have improved this squad step by step for the last 2 years. I thought Weis was a fantastic hire. I still think Matt Cassel is... well... not sure yet. But We are definitely making serious strides forward.

TRR
02-03-2011, 10:32 PM
We're not happy because we've seen it. He was a total failure in this role in 2009, and unless there is a major overhaul at almost every offensive position, our team isn't even built for the kind of passing offense he likes to call.

That would require a line that can give a QB time to drop back 5-7 steps, receivers who can get open, and a QB that can complete downfield passes.

Might as well not even watch a game in 2011 then.
Posted via Mobile Device

ChiefsNow
02-03-2011, 11:50 PM
I think it's absolutely genius. I know I would have never thought that they previously assembled coaches that they really thought they could use later in other capacities, even though that's what they said they were gonna do even before Weis woosed out.

booger
02-04-2011, 01:35 AM
I said it in the OC prospects thread that it will be interesting to see how they structure it. In his days in Dallas under Parcells, they had Peyton as the play caller plus Sparano and Carthon after, both as run game Co's and Todd as WR/Pass Game co. The day he announced his roles for the initial staff, he said Gailey, Himself, or Carthon could call plays at any time because it didn't matter they all have done it. That's the way he is used to things from the Dallas days and more recent AZ with how Whizenhunt did and still does it with Grimm and Mike Miller as Run/Pass Game CO's and Whiz calling the plays.

Searching through other teams rosters of coaches and reading the bios i liked plenty of different potential candidates out there. The problem was/is the system guys of this offense aren't as plentiful as a WCO or Air Coryell guys are. Also you have to consider age and other factors like the stress level involved with Haley compared to their current job. No way a guy like Tom Clements or Bruce Arians for that matter want to work for a younger HC and call Haley's offense and have little input into the playbook. I hoped they would interview those types but i obviously wasted my time in thinking it would happen.

Then just look at the system guys that were available. Dabal got the Miami job pretty quickly as Dan Henning retired and David Lee went back to the college game. McCoy may have been the main target like Babb seems to think but that fell apart when they decided on Jon Fox and his past with McCoy and Tebow's future all made it an obvious choice for him to keep McCoy on Staff as OC. Mike Miller in AZ would have been a match i believe but it would hurt Whiz and AZ as they would have to replace him and it would be basically a lateral move even if they did name him OC Whiz knows Haley would call plays. Same with the new england guys. Or Saints for that matter and Sean Peyton and Haley's history. They won't ask permission for a hire like this unless it would really advance a guy's career and give him control. Jeff Davidson getting fired with Fox's whole staff in carolina went to coach the OL in under Musgrave and Frazier in Minny. He was the least attrative of the system guys because of mostly an OL background with some years coaching te's under Weis in NE.

And with it being year 3 they were not going to put somebody green and young in that position especially with Haley as the HC and Cassel at QB.

Looking back at what his probable criteria was for the hire it almost leaves just two names on the current staff from those outside the team already mentioned. Muir and Carthon. Perles as a longshot as he was a college OC at N. Dakota St. I almost expected to be disappointed that Haley would hire Dan Henning beings Sparano would have been forced to fire him if he didn't retire and he is another one of the coaches that was on the Jets staff during Haley's start to his coaching career and a big influence on Todd.

booger
02-04-2011, 02:32 AM
Another way it is done structure wise is NE and not even naming an OC or DC for that matter.

They are smart in not going down that rode as they aren't the same HC and QB with all those super bowl rings. That's the only reason it works for NE is because of the people in place.

They can do try to hide things and give titles out while actual duties and how they run things may be a different story than the titles may lead most to believe.

There would have been a huge risk in naming Sirianni OC at this stage of his career roughly 30 years old more or less. You can use McDaniels as an example but they did hide it that he was calling the plays during the early stages. I don't even remember but i don't think he got the OC title right away. Could be wrong.

If you take Sirianni, Richie Anderson, Parmalee, and Perles and think that's the pool of candidates for the future OC if they are indeed grooming one i think i would eliminate Perles now because of his OL duties and Anderson because of the fact he is still being groomed by Haley looking over his shoulder as a WR coach. They could have easily let go of Parmalee if he was just a Weis hire as i said when the season ended i wouldn't be suprised either way. That they havn't says they actually like him at least as a TE coach. He also has coached special teams in the NFL and in college. So he's got that to add also.

Sirianni has basically been the QB coach anyway but still with film duties of a quality control coach. I would assume he gets the official title soon as QB coach and spends plenty of time with Haley and the other coaches in a bigger role as part of the offense as a potential future OC. Probably sooner rather than later with Muir's age.

I'd go as far to say that i would be Sirianni actually calls more plays than Muir. Muir said in his phone call presser with Haley and the media that he has never called plays on offense only D when he was DC with the colts. He may relay the plays to the QB but that's what Sirianni did this year so i assume that stays the same.

That would open a hole to hire a new offensive quality control coach which is the least news worthy or however you want to put it from a fans and media point of view. Either a former player that wants to get into coaching or a young guy like Sirianni who joined in the entry level position.

Still i really like the news that Mortenson mentioned of Chris Palmer's name as a potential QB coach. The title doesn't matter. It could be Senior offensive asst or whatever. His background as a HC and OC isn't that impressive but he is a system guy close to Parcells and really close to and interviewed for the OC job with Sparano. He would be a retread as an OC but would be very benificial to Sirianni and Cassel. Another name that gets thrown out there a bunch is Terry Shea. He is currently working with Draft prospects, QB's to be exact so in some ways it's hard to imagine him wanting to leave that to get back into coaching as he is probably 65 or so without looking it up. But his name has been out there as being interested in the Boston College OC/QB coach job. Both he and Palmer have the background as good QB teachers and that is something this staff could use.

I don't think it's all that likely but i wouldn't count out Jeremy Bates yet either. Mostly because of his working with Muir (only a year or two) in Grudens early years in TB. Hiring him as QB coach or whatever title would allow them to bring him in and learn the system which he never has coached in before. With how things work now in KC and Haley i could see that potentially. Plus he is pretty young yet and i don't see his name out there for any college or NFL jobs in his background of OC/QB/WR's jobs.

I will be interested in if Muir is up in the booth or not. I assume he would be. Perles this year was on the sidelines and both he and Muir would be seen coaching the OL when the O came off the field. Actually Perles more so than Muir from what i recall seeing. I could see Sirianni up there too depending on his next role/title. If qb's it makes more sense to have him on the field and someone else upstairs.

I guess that's how i'm taking it or looking at it. I don't really care who they give titles to. Haley and Pioli both have said they aren't too big on titles and i see it as more of giving Muir the title because he doesn't really care if criticized and that only helps take media pressure of off Haley and possibly Sirianni.

I think Muir will be less active on game day and oversee the run game, watch over Perles and the OL and run meetings etc when Haley tends to HC duties.

Count Zarth
02-04-2011, 02:40 AM
If Haley is fired within two years, we'll see this as the beginning of the end.

booger
02-04-2011, 03:51 AM
If Haley is fired within two years, we'll see this as the beginning of the end.

For better or worse he is like a lot of coaches who only want assistants who they have worked with in the past or are highly recommended by someone they worked with in the past or just system guys that fit. That's how he grew up in coaching stops under Parcells and Whiz. So that's his stubborn side.

The other part of it is Cassel. Weis provided a calm voice on the headset when he came off the field and also helped him get over his mistakes and move past them and not be too hard on himself which Weis said from his start in KC was a problem for Cassel.

They need to quick focking around too and get a real backup and a developmental prospect this offseason. Croyle's days are done IMO.

He's getting close to having what Parcells had in his last years in Dallas with the exception of neither having the QB that could get them over the hump. Haley's not there yet but when he gets there i hope there is another option at qb behind Cassel. He made strides and is tough and has the heart. He just might be what he is though and not be able to do much more with the mental side of it.

KCChiefsFan88
02-04-2011, 08:21 AM
Anyone who supports this pathetic abortion of a hire should admit that they support shitty, mediocre football... because that is what this hire reeks of.

Bill Muir is a white Jimmy Raye.

Brock
02-04-2011, 08:44 AM
For better or worse he is like a lot of coaches who only want assistants who they have worked with in the past or are highly recommended by someone they worked with in the past or just system guys that fit. That's how he grew up in coaching stops under Parcells and Whiz. So that's his stubborn side.

Which one of those things is Weis not?

siberian khatru
02-04-2011, 08:50 AM
I voted hate, but "hate" is probably too strong a word.

I'm like what Stevieray said on another thread: Just very disappointed, because it's a step backward to 2009.

I can only hope that Haley learned something from that and will adjust to make it work this time. But count me as skeptical.

The upside, FWIW, is what I said from the beginning and others have said: That it's now clearly all on Haley. Everybody knows where the buck stops. He gets all the credit or the blame. And if it fails, he's the problem that needs to be fixed.

booger
02-04-2011, 09:30 AM
Which one of those things is Weis not?

I meant a post Weis hire. Like the pool of candidates would have been much larger and he could of hired an experience guy like Childress, Callahan, hell anyone just throwing out names, of those types that don't come from the same system. From the get go they didn't leave themselves much choice with the criteria of the perkins/ernhart or whatever you wanna call it offense.

Weis :D yep he sure fits the bill but there's that hole ego thing with both of them and more so on Haley with the number of OC's he's been through. I will give him somewhat of a pass on Gailey because of the system difference. Gailey said at his presser in Buffalo announcing him as HC that he made it clear to clark, pioli, and Haley that their philosophies didn't match and he wasn't sure it could work but he was under contract. And i don't blame managment/ownership that much because not many want a first time HC to call plays and be his own OC in his rookie year plus the fact Whisenhunt worked with Gailey and could have gave Todd plenty of insight.

I'm just talking going forward after Weis.

Chiefnj2
02-04-2011, 09:57 AM
KC's offense makes a huge improvement in year 2, especially the rushing attack and # of sacks taken by Cassell. Yet everyone wants to blame Muir for the OL "regressing" across the board?

Maybe, just maybe, Albert isn't cut out to be a LT and Richardson isn't that good.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 10:03 AM
The upside, FWIW, is what I said from the beginning and others have said: That it's now clearly all on Haley. Everybody knows where the buck stops. He gets all the credit or the blame. And if it fails, he's the problem that needs to be fixed.

That's really a stupid fucking way to run a football franchise, especially when the guy "leading" and taking all the responsibility has very little experience managing a team at any level.

This isn't Jimmy Johnson, who coached a national championship team at Miami after years in the college ranks that moves on to the NFL. This isn't Mike Shanahan, who won a Super Bowl in SF after years in Denver, only to return to Denver and win two more Super Bowls with a HOF QB.

This isn't even a seasoned, veteran coach like Pete Carroll or Marty Schottenheimer. This is a guy that rose slowly through the coaching ranks and after ONE season as an OC of a team with HOF players, was hired as a head coach that immediately took on too much responsibility, alienated players and basically coached like a amateur, high school football coach his first season.

It *may* work the second time around, but honestly, why would ANY owner turn the keys of the franchise over to a guy that's shown that he's incompetent at running the offense and act as head coach simultaneously?

I don't get it. It seems terribly reckless on the owner and GM's part and if they lose fans in stands in 2011, it'll make it all more the difficult to get them back in 2012 and beyond.

T-post Tom
02-04-2011, 10:05 AM
First blush: hate it. Stupid call. Seems to be a thinly veiled attempt to install a foot shuffling porter with an a-hole big enough for haley to stick his arm up in it.

That said, I'm willing to suspend judgement until next season. I suspect that this will be the beginning of the end for Haley if it fails.

Sweet Daddy Hate
02-04-2011, 10:36 AM
I love it.

siberian khatru
02-04-2011, 10:42 AM
That's really a stupid ****ing way to run a football franchise, especially when the guy "leading" and taking all the responsibility has very little experience managing a team at any level.

This isn't Jimmy Johnson, who coached a national championship team at Miami after years in the college ranks that moves on to the NFL. This isn't Mike Shanahan, who won a Super Bowl in SF after years in Denver, only to return to Denver and win two more Super Bowls with a HOF QB.

This isn't even a seasoned, veteran coach like Pete Carroll or Marty Schottenheimer. This is a guy that rose slowly through the coaching ranks and after ONE season as an OC of a team with HOF players, was hired as a head coach that immediately took on too much responsibility, alienated players and basically coached like a amateur, high school football coach his first season.

It *may* work the second time around, but honestly, why would ANY owner turn the keys of the franchise over to a guy that's shown that he's incompetent at running the offense and act as head coach simultaneously?

I don't get it. It seems terribly reckless on the owner and GM's part and if they lose fans in stands in 2011, it'll make it all more the difficult to get them back in 2012 and beyond.

You're still arguing that an owner should get involved in the composition of the coaching staff. I believe it's reckless to have an owner telling football guys what asst. coaches should be hired or fired. Clark might as well fire Pioli, save money and act as GM himself, like Jerry Jones.

But really, do you trust Clark to make these kind of decisions? You and him may agree on this one, but what if he intervenes on another that you disagree with? Suddenly, I suspect he'd get lots of flak for being a know-nothing soccer boy who's way out of his league.

The owner should care only about the results. He hired the GM to produce results, and leaves the details to him. Clark hasn't turned the keys of the franchise over to Haley, he's turned them over to Pioli. Pioli has signed off on this move. It's Pioli's responsibility to hold Haley accountable for this, and Clark's job to hold Pioli accountable if he doesn't.

That was a big problem Lamar had: He never held Carl accountable long after it was clear that Carl's way wasn't working. It took Clark to get rid of Carl. I hope he's got Pioli on a much shorter leash than Daddy had Carl.

Let me be clear, lest you misunderstand: I DO NOT support this move, for the reasons you cited above and more. But I do not think the owner should be meddling in this. At best, he should be aware of what's going on, he can tell Pioli he's skeptical of it and remind him that it better work out or else.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 10:53 AM
You're still arguing that an owner should get involved in the composition of the coaching staff. I believe it's reckless to have an owner telling football guys what asst. coaches should be hired or fired. Clark might as well fire Pioli, save money and act as GM himself, like Jerry Jones.

The Hunt Family has been notoriously hands off an owners. What has that provided the fans over the course of the past 40 years?

1. A 15 year void in playoff appearance (they finally made the playoffs in 1986, only to fire their coach immediately after the season).
2. 18 years and going since the last playoff game.
3. 10 years too late in firing Carl Peterson.
4. Allowing Haley to hire Pendergast and go without an OC in 2009, only to repeat that mistake in 2011.

I'm not stating that Clark Hunt should suddenly become Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder, which are extreme situations.

But, the Kraft Family is closely involved in ALL decisions regarding the Patriots, the Rooney family has ALWAYS been involved in ALL decisions regarding their franchise, Woody Johnson is extremely involved in the Jets day-to-day business, as is Arthur Blank of the Falcons and so on.

Very, very few teams succeed in ANY sport with little-to-no interaction from ownership and IMO, the Chiefs NEED more input from their owner if they're going to be a long term, winning franchise.

It doesn't just "happen" on its own.

ChiTown
02-04-2011, 10:57 AM
Very, very few teams succeed in ANY sport with little-to-no interaction from ownership and IMO, the Chiefs NEED more input from their owner if they're going to be a long term, winning franchise.

It doesn't just "happen" on its own.

See: Glass, David :D

Sweet Daddy Hate
02-04-2011, 11:00 AM
They're going to get/unleash EXACTLY what they fucking deserve. Thought you could unload Ass Hattle on this team and not pay for it?

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Okay.

milkman
02-04-2011, 11:00 AM
The Hunt Family has been notoriously hands off an owners. What has that provided the fans over the course of the past 40 years?

1. A 15 year void in playoff appearance (they finally made the playoffs in 1986, only to fire their coach immediately after the season).
2. 18 years and going since the last playoff game.
3. 10 years too late in firing Carl Peterson.
4. Allowing Haley to hire Pendergast and go without an OC in 2009, only to repeat that mistake in 2011.

I'm not stating that Clark Hunt should suddenly become Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder, which are extreme situations.

But, the Kraft Family is closely involved in ALL decisions regarding the Patriots, the Rooney family has ALWAYS been involved in ALL decisions regarding their franchise, Woody Johnson is extremely involved in the Jets day-to-day business, as is Arthur Blank of the Falcons and so on.

Very, very few teams succeed in ANY sport with little-to-no interaction from ownership and IMO, the Chiefs NEED more input from their owner if they're going to be a long term, winning franchise.

It doesn't just "happen" on its own.

How about the ownership in Green Bay?

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 11:17 AM
How about the ownership in Green Bay?

The city? Well, they've hired and fired CEO's over the years (Bob Harlan, Kevin's father being the last ousted CEO) and they've demanded championships from their team.

Which is something that neither the Hunts or the fans that live in Kansas City have ever demanded. Making the playoffs is "good enough", hence all the love for the "Marty Years".

Extra Point
02-04-2011, 11:21 AM
Anxiously looking for the True Fan lever...

I pulled it: Choice 1. I like Muir's history, and his involvement with how the line improved over last year.

Pound the rock, pass with high percentage. Know what it takes to get first downs and into the endzone when we have the ball.

I would kind of like to know who will coach the O-Line, but it don't matter to me.

ChiTown
02-04-2011, 11:22 AM
Which is something that neither the Hunts or the fans that live in Kansas City have ever demanded. Making the playoffs is "good enough", hence all the love for the "Marty Years".

Playoffs? You want to talk about Playoffs? Playoffs?

milkman
02-04-2011, 11:26 AM
The city? Well, they've hired and fired CEO's over the years (Bob Harlan, Kevin's father being the last ousted CEO) and they've demanded championships from their team.

Which is something that neither the Hunts or the fans that live in Kansas City have ever demanded. Making the playoffs is "good enough", hence all the love for the "Marty Years".

My next question is this.

Does it not appear that Clark Hunt is more involved than his father was?

Robert Kraft is involved in New England, but when it's all said and done, Bill Bellichick is still the final decision maker when it comes to bringing in talent and hiring staff.

Clark Hunt's involvement, from a distance, appears to mirror Kraft's in New England.

DeezNutz
02-04-2011, 11:27 AM
I pulled it: Choice 1. I like Muir's history, and his involvement with how the line improved over last year.

Pound the rock, pass with high percentage. Know what it takes to get first downs and into the endzone when we have the ball.

I would kind of like to know who will coach the O-Line, but it don't matter to me.

Our OCINO himself, according to kcchiefs.com.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 11:30 AM
My next question is this.

Does it not appear that Clark Hunt is more involved than his father was?

Robert Kraft is involved in New England, but when it's all said and done, Bill Bellichick is still the final decision maker when it comes to bringing in talent and hiring staff.

Clark Hunt's involvement, from a distance, appears to mirror Kraft's in New England.

Honestly, I can't tell if it mirrors Kraft's because he's so under the radar. I read about Kraft all the time. I never see or hear a peep about Clark Hunt.

But I have a hard time believing that Bob Kraft would allow Belichick to hire Clancy Pendergast, a DC with a horrible track record, in his first year as head coach.

Extra Point
02-04-2011, 11:31 AM
The Hunt Family has been notoriously hands off (an) owners....

I'm not stating that Clark Hunt should suddenly become Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder, which are extreme situations....

It doesn't just "happen" on its own.

That's right; it doesn't happen on its own. The hoodwinking Herm hire was Clark Hunt's last play-along moment. Sure, the Gailey firing didn't bode well for the team; those two had differing philosophies. Haley has the keys, and neither Hunt or Pioli are going to let him drive the car with "funny plays."

A question may then be asked: What about two years from now?

I don't think Muir will be on the staff after two years. You'd think that's hitting Pioli's deadline for winning the AFC.

Extra Point
02-04-2011, 11:33 AM
My next question is this.

Does it not appear that Clark Hunt is more involved than his father was?

Robert Kraft is involved in New England, but when it's all said and done, Bill Bellichick is still the final decision maker when it comes to bringing in talent and hiring staff.

Clark Hunt's involvement, from a distance, appears to mirror Kraft's in New England.

I agree with that comment.

milkman
02-04-2011, 11:35 AM
Honestly, I can't tell if it mirrors Kraft's because he's so under the radar. I read about Kraft all the time. I never see or hear a peep about Clark Hunt.

But I have a hard time believing that Bob Kraft would allow Belichick to hire Clancy Pendergast, a DC with a horrible track record, in his first year as head coach.

I think the staff hires after Haley was hired were forced because of the fact that the Chiefs got into the game so late, in large part because of Clark Hunt.

You read a lot about Kraft because of that's team's success.

No one cares to write about Hunt because the Chiefs are irrelevent.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-04-2011, 11:39 AM
My next question is this.

Does it not appear that Clark Hunt is more involved than his father was?

Robert Kraft is involved in New England, but when it's all said and done, Bill Bellichick is still the final decision maker when it comes to bringing in talent and hiring staff.

Clark Hunt's involvement, from a distance, appears to mirror Kraft's in New England.

Kraft is a present, but non-intrusive owner. Clark Hunt spends the vast majority of his time in Texas.

milkman
02-04-2011, 11:42 AM
Kraft is a present, but non-intrusive owner. Clark Hunt spends the vast majority of his time in Texas.

And of course, there isn't any technology available that allows for daily communication.

Count Zarth
02-04-2011, 11:42 AM
Bob Kraft wanted to hire Gunther Cunningham.

No one in this league is infallible.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 11:44 AM
Kraft is a present, but non-intrusive owner. Clark Hunt spends the vast majority of his time in Texas.

Absolutely, which is the same as his father.

I've said it time and time and time again but the great NFL franchises like the Steelers, Patriots, 49er's under DeBartolo, the Giants, etc. are there year after year after year after year due to ownership.

Using guys like Jones and Snyder are tenuous at best considering the Rooney's, Mara's, Kraft's, etc. are just as hands on but with far more success.

siberian khatru
02-04-2011, 11:47 AM
The Hunt Family has been notoriously hands off an owners. What has that provided the fans over the course of the past 40 years?

1. A 15 year void in playoff appearance (they finally made the playoffs in 1986, only to fire their coach immediately after the season).
2. 18 years and going since the last playoff game.
3. 10 years too late in firing Carl Peterson.
4. Allowing Haley to hire Pendergast and go without an OC in 2009, only to repeat that mistake in 2011.

I'm not stating that Clark Hunt should suddenly become Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder, which are extreme situations.

But, the Kraft Family is closely involved in ALL decisions regarding the Patriots, the Rooney family has ALWAYS been involved in ALL decisions regarding their franchise, Woody Johnson is extremely involved in the Jets day-to-day business, as is Arthur Blank of the Falcons and so on.

Very, very few teams succeed in ANY sport with little-to-no interaction from ownership and IMO, the Chiefs NEED more input from their owner if they're going to be a long term, winning franchise.

It doesn't just "happen" on its own.

And I think that is going to the other extreme -- that's not "hands off," that's being in a fucking coma.

What you cite about Lamar is exactly what I said about holding people accountable. Lamar failed to hold Steadman and Schaaf accountable for years and years and years of failure (quick aside -- the one time Lamar was hands on was when he listened to Nick Lowery and his gang and fired a playoff coach in Mackovic and replaced him with something worse). Then Lamar failed to hold Carl accountable long after he had proved he'd lost it (if he ever had it).

Clark bless his heart canned Carl. But Clark also was hands on in requesting that Pioli consider keeping Herm on as coach. That's the kind of hands on meddling I could do without.

I'd rather leave it in Pioli's hands to decide what the roster and coaching staff look like. But Clark has to follow through on that and hold him accountable for those decisions -- not give him 10 years or more of mediocrity or failure like Daddy did with his GMs.

By all means, Clark should be aware of what's going on and be privy to Pioli's (and Haley's) thinking. Pick their brains. Ask why. Express skepticism. That kind of interaction is vital. But that's different than the owner stepping in and saying "I will not let you promote Bill Muir to OCINO."

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-04-2011, 11:48 AM
And of course, there isn't any technology available that allows for daily communication.

You are severely underrating the importance of having someone "there" and involved on a regular (not daily) basis.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-04-2011, 11:49 AM
Bill Kraft isn't the gold standard, anyway. The best owners in this league are the Rooneys and Maras.

Pestilence
02-04-2011, 11:49 AM
Well....we'll at least we know what we have this time next season (if there is one).

We'll either be looking for a new coach and a new QB or Haley proves that he can be the HC and call plays.

milkman
02-04-2011, 11:51 AM
I'm with SS on this.

I think Hunt has shown more interest, but at the same time, he's not a football man, and as such, should leave the day to day operations to his football men.

If they don't get it done, then hold them accountable and find a football man that will get it done.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-04-2011, 11:52 AM
Ultimately, here's the problem:

An owner should, at the very least, not second guess the GM, but ask him to explain his line of thinking for moves/hires

What makes Muir the best candidate?
Why can Todd succeed in this dual capacity when he performed so poorly (and rashly) in 2009?
Are you concerned that our coach is spreading himself too thin?
Who are some other people you considered for this job?
How does this offensive philosophy match up with our talent on the field?

Maybe these questions were asked, but when you have an owner who is more known for soccer than football, and he works almost entirely in absentia, it makes you wonder.

CrazyHorse
02-04-2011, 01:32 PM
Bill Kraft isn't the gold standard, anyway. The best owners in this league are the Rooneys and Maras.

What do you base this on? What criteria? just curious.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 01:36 PM
What do you base this on? What criteria? just curious.

Championships

-King-
02-04-2011, 01:47 PM
Championships

John Mara has won 1 SB with the Giants. Wouldn't Jerry Jones be a better owner then?

CrazyHorse
02-04-2011, 01:48 PM
For those arguing about Clark and his involvement or lack of, he's been running the organization (for the most part) for the last 10 years.

After pops died it seems like he is a little more hands on. In fact, the last game I went to, he was standing at arms length talking to fans inside the stadium at thier seats. It seems he wants to put his signature on this team and not be so much a cosignator. He doesn't have to be at the combine. He dont have to be the 1st word in personell decisions. He just needs to want to build a winner and then do it in a way that gives him the best percentage of success. If a person is not equiped to do the job he can hire the people to do it. For him to come charging in and over rule the people who know better than he does whould be an indicator that he is over his head, not that he is hands on. IMO.

Reerun_KC
02-04-2011, 01:53 PM
You are severely underrating the importance of having someone "there" and involved on a regular (not daily) basis.

Globalization of technology is quite impressive...

We cant be in our offices in Pakistan and Dubai on a daily basis, but I can promise you that we know every move and are involved heavily in the daily operations of each of our offices...

Its really amazing how you can totally run an organization with modern technology...

Even better? We have full blown wifi internet on our business jets now. I was having a voice conversation with a manager in Dubai the other day on my ipad while cruising at 38,000 ft...

The days of micro managing in the same office are pretty much gone... Welcome to the 21st century...

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 01:55 PM
John Mara has won 1 SB with the Giants. Wouldn't Jerry Jones be a better owner then?

The Mara family has owned the New York Giants since 1925 and have won 13 championships since.

-King-
02-04-2011, 01:59 PM
The Mara family has owned the New York Giants since 1925 and have won 13 championships since.

Yeah...we're talking about Current owners though, and that's John Mara.

CrazyHorse
02-04-2011, 02:01 PM
Championships

There are several teams with more championships than the Mara family.

And these fans could not endure an owner like the Rooneys.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 02:06 PM
Yeah...we're talking about Current owners though, and that's John Mara.

Who's "we"?

And why don't you go ahead and disprove the notion that the Mara family aren't amongst the best owners in the NFL, okay?

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 02:08 PM
There are several teams with more championships than the Mara family.


Really? Which teams have more than 13 championships and please explain why those ownership groups or owners are better than the Mara family.

And these fans could not endure an owner like the Rooneys.

What? Chiefs fans would hate to six Super Bowl championships on the verge of a seventh?

-King-
02-04-2011, 02:13 PM
Who's "we"?

And why don't you go ahead and disprove the notion that the Mara family aren't amongst the best owners in the NFL, okay?

Rooneys
Jerry Jones
Jim Irsay
Halas family
Bowlen

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-04-2011, 02:15 PM
Rooneys
Jerry Jones
Jim Irsay
Halas family
Bowlen

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 02:20 PM
Rooneys
Jerry Jones
Jim Irsay
Halas family
Bowlen

Child, please

-King-
02-04-2011, 02:34 PM
Child, please

Jerry has 3 SB wins. Bowlen 2 and Irsay 1.

siberian khatru
02-04-2011, 02:40 PM
Jerry has 3 SB wins. Bowlen 2 and Irsay 1.

The Cowboys have won 1 playoff game since 1996. The Broncos have won 1 playoff game since 1998.

The owners are still there. The franchise QBs aren't. Funny how that works.

CrazyHorse
02-04-2011, 02:41 PM
Really? Which teams have more than 13 championships and please explain why those ownership groups or owners are better than the Mara family.



What? Chiefs fans would hate to six Super Bowl championships on the verge of a seventh?

I should start off by saying that I wasn't speaking to you with the original question. Nor was there any sarcasm or condesention when I asked it.

But since you speak for this person (with sarcasm) I will address your post.

I thought by Championships he meant Superbowls. Either way, the Giants are hardly in the winners circle often in the modern era. Yeah, I know they won the big one a few years back. But aside from that they have been an unstable underachieving franchise IMO. Dead Maras dont count when talking about going forward.

As for the Rooneys, I didnt say you couldnt handle winning SBs. I said you couldnt handle the way the Steelers are run. The stuck with Cowher when he was backing Kordel Stewart. It was over 10 years of not winning the big one with Cowher before he finally did. 10 years with a guy like you would never go over. You'd be crying in year one about how you could do better. How Stewart wasnt a franchise QB. Go ahead, say you wouldn't be screaming and bawling the whole 10 years. The fact is, the Rooneys ran it the same way L.Hunt ran it with Peterson and Schottenhiemer.

Are you ready for that?

Yeah....thats what I thought.

For the record I'll just say that I have no problem with the way the Rooneys run thier organization. Where Hunt went wrong was after Schoettenhiemer left, his replacements were filler. They weren't long term answers. Even when Vermiel was here, everyone knew it was going to be short lived.

I long for the day we go back to doing it like the Rooneys. This whole turning over the front office stuff every 3-5 years isnt going to build a winner. It will renew hope and sell tickets, but not build a winner.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 02:43 PM
Jerry has 3 SB wins. Bowlen 2 and Irsay 1.

How does that make any of them among the best owners in the NFL?

Do you know anything about the Irsay family?

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 02:51 PM
I should start off by saying that I wasn't speaking to you with the original question. Nor was there any sarcasm or condesention when I asked it.

But since you speak for this person (with sarcasm) I will address your post.

I thought by Championships he meant Superbowls. Either way, the Giants are hardly in the winners circle often in the modern era. Yeah, I know they won the big one a few years back. But aside from that they have been an unstable underachieving franchise IMO. Dead Maras dont count when talking about going forward.

So, the Bill Parcells coached Super Bowl teams of the 80's don't count, neither does Fassel's team in 2000 that was a Super Bowl loser, nor do the 2007 Giants?

How does that work?

And just how, exactly, aren't the Giants a sustainable, winning franchise? They moved up for Eli Manning, who quickly took them to a Super Bowl. They drafted Phil Simms, Lawrence Taylor and scores of other great players and won two in the 80's. They're a consistent force in the NFC East.

As for the Rooneys, I didnt say you couldnt handle winning SBs. I said you couldnt handle the way the Steelers are run. The stuck with Cowher when he was backing Kordel Stewart. It was over 10 years of not winning the big one with Cowher before he finally did. 10 years with a guy like you would never go over. You'd be crying in year one about how you could do better. How Stewart wasnt a franchise QB. Go ahead, say you wouldn't be screaming and bawling the whole 10 years. The fact is, the Rooneys ran it the same way L.Hunt ran it with Peterson and Schottenhiemer.

Are you ready for that?

Yeah....thats what I thought.

You assume WAY too much.

First off, there's a HUGE difference between Dick Haley & Chuck Noll winning four Super Bowls and Jim Schaaf and Jack Steadman running the Chiefs for 30 years, with 15 straight years of no playoff appearances, let alone wins.

THAT is the difference between great ownership and poor ownership.


I long for the day we go back to doing it like the Rooneys. This whole turning over the front office stuff every 3-5 years isnt going to build a winner. It will renew hope and sell tickets, but not build a winner.

The NFL is a $4-5 billion dollar per year industry. If a team cannot consistently win, year in and year out, coaching and front office changes MUST be made in order to stay relevant.

Do you wish that Herm had been retained, just for the sake of continuity? Gunther? Tom Pratt? I mean, come on.

-King-
02-04-2011, 02:56 PM
How does that make any of them among the best owners in the NFL?

Do you know anything about the Irsay family?



What do you base this on? What criteria? just curious.

Championships
.

-King-
02-04-2011, 02:57 PM
The Cowboys have won 1 playoff game since 1996. The Broncos have won 1 playoff game since 1998.

The owners are still there. The franchise QBs aren't. Funny how that works.

Eli isn't that much better than Tony Romo. So if you're going to call Eli a franchise QB, then you have to call Romo one too.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 02:57 PM
.

Thank you for admitting that you don't know what you're talking about.

It's refreshing, for once.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 02:58 PM
Eli isn't that much better than Tony Romo. So if you're going to call Eli a franchise QB, then you have to call Romo one too.

LMAO

Keep going. It's awesome.

ChiefsCountry
02-04-2011, 02:59 PM
Isray family as one the best ownership groups is fucking hilarious. Other than sucking the right year to get Manning, they have been a joke. Moving the team in the middle of the night from Baltimore, the infamous franchise switch of the Rams, you can go on and on about them.

-King-
02-04-2011, 03:01 PM
LMAO

Keep going. It's awesome.

Eli Manning: In 7 years starting- 23,000 yards 156 TDs and 113 INTs

Tony Romo: In 5 years starting - 17,000 yards 118 TDs and 62 INTs.


Yeah, I think they're comparable.

-King-
02-04-2011, 03:02 PM
Isray family as one the best ownership groups is fucking hilarious. Other than sucking the right year to get Manning, they have been a joke. Moving the team in the middle of the night from Baltimore, the infamous franchise switch of the Rams, you can go on and on about them.

That doesn't matter. I'm using Danes criteria. Championships. They have one.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 03:02 PM
Eli Manning: In 7 years starting- 23,000 yards 156 TDs and 113 INTs

Tony Romo: In 5 years starting - 17,000 yards 118 TDs and 62 INTs.


Yeah, I think they're comparable.

Eli Manning - Super Bowl winner

Tony Romo - one playoff win.

Not comparable, at all.

-King-
02-04-2011, 03:03 PM
Eli Manning - Super Bowl winner

Tony Romo - one playoff win.

Not comparable, at all.

Trent Dilfer - Superbowl Winner...

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 03:10 PM
Trent Dilfer - Superbowl Winner...

Oh, so Eli Manning = Trent Dilfer?

LMAO

Keep going. This is fucking awesome.

-King-
02-04-2011, 03:14 PM
Oh, so Eli Manning = Trent Dilfer?

LMAO

Keep going. This is fucking awesome.

No but Dilfer is a superbowl winner.

Brock
02-04-2011, 03:15 PM
Well, Manning is one fluke catch from being Super Bowl loser. AFAIC, he's the same thing as Joe Flacco.

-King-
02-04-2011, 03:18 PM
Well, Manning is one fluke catch from being Super Bowl loser. AFAIC, he's the same thing as Joe Flacco.

Yup. He's not special. FFS the Giants defense held the highest scoring offense EVER to 14 points.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 03:20 PM
That doesn't matter. I'm using Danes criteria. Championships. They have one.

LMAO

So, 13 championships for the Giants and six Super Bowls for the Pittsburgh Steelers = Jim Irsay?

LMAO

This is fucking great.

-King-
02-04-2011, 03:22 PM
LMAO

So, 13 championships for the Giants and six Super Bowls for the Pittsburgh Steelers = Jim Irsay?

LMAO

This is fucking great.

3 superbowls for the Giants. And even drop Irsay. Point still stands.

And Rooneys are the best owners in the NFL. I know that.

Brock
02-04-2011, 03:23 PM
LMAO

So, 13 championships for the Giants and six Super Bowls for the Pittsburgh Steelers = Jim Irsay?

LMAO

This is fucking great.

13 championships?

Pasta Giant Meatball
02-04-2011, 03:24 PM
Yup. He's not special. FFS the Giants defense held the highest scoring offense EVER to 14 points.

Naw man, that was the "franchise QB" that did that.

CrazyHorse
02-04-2011, 03:24 PM
So, the Bill Parcells coached Super Bowl teams of the 80's don't count, neither does Fassel's team in 2000 that was a Super Bowl loser, nor do the 2007 Giants?

How does that work?

And just how, exactly, aren't the Giants a sustainable, winning franchise? They moved up for Eli Manning, who quickly took them to a Super Bowl. They drafted Phil Simms, Lawrence Taylor and scores of other great players and won two in the 80's. They're a consistent force in the NFC East.



You assume WAY too much.

First off, there's a HUGE difference between Dick Haley & Chuck Noll winning four Super Bowls and Jim Schaaf and Jack Steadman running the Chiefs for 30 years, with 15 straight years of no playoff appearances, let alone wins.

THAT is the difference between great ownership and poor ownership.



The NFL is a $4-5 billion dollar per year industry. If a team cannot consistently win, year in and year out, coaching and front office changes MUST be made in order to stay relevant.

Do you wish that Herm had been retained, just for the sake of continuity? Gunther? Tom Pratt? I mean, come on.

All you're interested in doing is having a pissing contest. Im not interested in that. I am an adult.

The point Im trying to make in one ****ing sentence. You could not handle a team being run the way the Rooneys do it. The way you handle yourself day in and day out is proof.

Howd the ****ing Giants do this year? They got Eli and all. Well the've been around for what 100 freekin years. They should have rung up a few championships. Either way, you couldn't handle it. I posted that dead Maras dont count going forward.

Obviously the points Im trying to get across to you are over your head. Because of that you think you can talk down to me.

You're difficult to take seriously because of your posture. It's like one of those little chihuahuas with a nepoleon complex. I dont bully them, so I wont bully you.

Just dont be surprized if I ignore you going forward.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 03:25 PM
13 championships?

Going back to 1925 for the Mara family.

Brock
02-04-2011, 03:26 PM
Going back to 1925 for the Mara family.

that doesn't sound right.

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 03:27 PM
All you're interested in doing is having a pissing contest. Im not interested in that. I am an adult.

No you're not. And you continually prove it each and every day.

The point Im trying to make in one fucking sentence. You could not handle a team being run the way the Rooneys do it. The way you handle yourself day in and day out is proof.

You're a fucking moron, plain and simple.

Howd the fucking Giants do this year? They got Eli and all. Well the've been around for what 100 freekin years. They should have rung up a few championships. Either way, you couldn't handle it. I posted that dead Maras dont count going forward.

Oh, so 2010 is Year Zero? Interesting.


Obvuiiosly the points Im trying to get across to you are over your head. Because of that you think you can talk down to me.

LMAO

This is truly funny.

Gee, what were you saying again?

You're difficult to take seriously because of your posture. It's like one of those little chihuahuas with a nepoleon complex. I dont bully them, so I wont bully you.

Just dont be surprized if I ignore you going forward.

:deevee:

DaneMcCloud
02-04-2011, 03:28 PM
that doesn't sound right.

You're right, it's only 7. My bad.

-King-
02-04-2011, 03:35 PM
You're right, it's only 7. My bad.

ROFL