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Superturtle
02-04-2011, 09:54 PM
As you may or may not know, I am a recently graduated high school student. My question to the community is do any of you have ideas for jobs that require a high school diploma and have full time/close to full time hours? I currently work at Cracker Barrel washing dishes, and it is my first and only job. It is a pretty enjoyable job, but in January and February the hours are just too low.
I would love to get a job with at least 30+ hours, but I just have soo many ideas. Maybe a stroke of inspiration will come with a suggestion. Any and all are appreciated. My goal is to get this job and make Cracker Barrel my second job.

Update: Also, any ideas to make myself more marketable to potential employers?

jd1020
02-04-2011, 09:55 PM
Get a second job? It's going to be hard for someone with just a highschool diploma to find full time hours.

88TG88
02-04-2011, 09:56 PM
go to college

KurtCobain
02-04-2011, 09:56 PM
You live around Kansas City?

Superturtle
02-04-2011, 09:56 PM
Actually, Rochester, NY

Chiefs Rool
02-04-2011, 09:57 PM
let me tell you something. I have a bachelors degree from K-State in Business Admin and I work at a damn factory driving forklifts. But, I suck and didn't do things right after I graduated and didn't network enough. I'm sure you could get a job at the factory I work at, it's full time and pays the bills. Speaking of which, they don't know that I have a degree, I left that part out on my application, I needed a job bad and I thought it would actually hurt me.

KurtCobain
02-04-2011, 10:00 PM
Actually, Rochester, NY

You could be a rapper.

LiveSteam
02-04-2011, 10:00 PM
this
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2kRVN_RQYkI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

or this
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LH4-tOqLH94" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Frazod
02-04-2011, 10:01 PM
Join the Navy. Save for college, learn a trade, see the world on Uncle Sam's dime. Along the way work brutal hours for shit pay and take orders from pompous assholes.

It certainly beats washing dishes.

KurtCobain
02-04-2011, 10:05 PM
Are you any good at sports?

LiveSteam
02-04-2011, 10:06 PM
Huskers are hiring football coaches right now

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 10:07 PM
well...

work hard and try to get promoted to a server at Cracker Barrel...a serving job for an 18 or 19 year old is a good start and you'll meet some cool people along the way...

but you can very easily fall into "the trap" and still see yourself doing that kind of work when you're 25 (lol)

KurtCobain
02-04-2011, 10:09 PM
Cracker Barrel has some pretty good food.

You could work in their store part, I'm sure they get more perks than the dishwashers.

LiveSteam
02-04-2011, 10:10 PM
Go see the world why you are young. if you are good at school join the Air Force. or go join your loco national guard for a second job. what ever you do. dnt take out a bunch of fucking student loans when the god dam GI bill is sitting there for you.

patteeu
02-04-2011, 10:11 PM
Join the Navy. Save for college, learn a trade, see the world on Uncle Sam's dime. Along the way work brutal hours for shit pay and take orders from pompous assholes.

It certainly beats washing dishes.

This is a good suggestion, have you given the military consideration?

Saul Good
02-04-2011, 10:12 PM
As you may or may not know, I am a recently graduated high school student. My question to the community is do any of you have ideas for jobs that require a high school diploma and have full time/close to full time hours? I currently work at Cracker Barrel washing dishes, and it is my first and only job. It is a pretty enjoyable job, but in January and February the hours are just too low.
I would love to get a job with at least 30+ hours, but I just have soo many ideas. Maybe a stroke of inspiration will come with a suggestion. Any and all are appreciated. My goal is to get this job and make Cracker Barrel my second job.

Update: Also, any ideas to make myself more marketable to potential employers?

What are you good at? Do you prefer blue collar work or white collar work?

You are going to get a lot of advice to go to college. It may be good advice, but it may not be. I'm very white collar, but I am also a huge advocate of learning a trade if that's what suits you.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 10:13 PM
I think more and more people (with rising tuition rates) are going to realize college isn't always the best route...

a bachelor's degree is turning into nothing more than a whoopdeedoo now that everyone and their dogs are going to school...

BigRedChief
02-04-2011, 10:15 PM
Education.Education.Education....rinse and repeat.

Decide what you would like to be or do with your life and go for it. Get the education and live the life you dream.

KurtCobain
02-04-2011, 10:17 PM
Dumb people make ok money too.

Buehler445
02-04-2011, 10:17 PM
If you don't have any intentions of going to college, get one with a trucking company that will pay to have you get your CDL and drive truck. There is a giant need for Good ANY truck drivers.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 10:17 PM
I know a smart girl who got a spanish degree from the U of I while racking up nearly six figures in student loans...

she applied or a few jobs...walked dogs for a while...and now she's trying to find a serving job again...and doesn't really have any idea what she wants to do or how she's going to use that degree

...have fun with those student loans

another friend got a pretty good degree in kinesiology and the best job he can find is a $10 an hour personal trainers job and to advance any further he'll need his masters and beyond...so he's back to just working for the family business...

another friend got a good degree from the U of I and is now a Chicago police officer (after his dad) and admits the whole college thing was a total waste of time...

another friend has a degree from ISU and he probably couldn't even land a job at Jimmy John's...

so yeah

have fun with all of your bachelor degrees...

If anything, wait until you're 24 to go to school (so you're completely independent) and wait for all of the grant money you'll get so you won't have to rack up a shit ton of debt paying for an "education" where you'll spend the majority of the time being taught by TA's who don't give two shits about teaching you anything

Saul Good
02-04-2011, 10:18 PM
I think more and more people (with rising tuition rates) are going to realize college isn't always the best route...

a bachelor's degree is turning into nothing more than a whoopdeedoo now that everyone and their dogs are going to school...

I'm going to go ahead and say it. A recently-acquired Masters/MBA has almost become a negative. Employers are starting to look at people with advanced degrees and no work experience as people taking the easy route. Show me somebody who slogged through the real word when the economy was bad instead of retreating back to school, and I'll show you someone with determination. There are so many people with advanced degrees anymore that they have become a dime a dozen.

BigRedChief
02-04-2011, 10:20 PM
I think more and more people (with rising tuition rates) are going to realize college isn't always the best route...

a bachelor's degree is turning into nothing more than a whoopdeedoo now that everyone and their dogs are going to school...Education had proven over and over agiain over the years to be the best way to better ones life.

But, I don't think "education" must mean a college degree. You can learn a trade. Develop a skill. etc.

jd1020
02-04-2011, 10:22 PM
If you arent looking to invest a great deal of time in the class room then trades are the best way to go. It's not easy work but the cash flow is definitely worth it. Especially after you've been in it for a couple years and start doing side jobs. Just don't go the welding route, unless you are looking for frequent 3 month vacations.

LiveSteam
02-04-2011, 10:23 PM
When I graduated high school in 1987 I had V-tech trades that I learned there. laths Mills welding foundry auto. These were not shit classes either. They were 2 block classes, plus many a lunch period or time after school spent in these shops standing over a lath or mill.
How things have changed in 25 years. fucking shame full

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 10:24 PM
It's true man...

The University of Illinois used to be a tough school to get into...I didn't get in out of high school...my sister got a 28 on her ACT (I only got a 25) and she had to wait a semester before she was let in...and she had a very impressive high school resume.

Now...they don't give a fuck. I work with dozens of people who go there who are dumber than a box of rocks. It's hysterical.

30 years ago smart kids went to school and dumb kids hit the work force...

Now? Everyone tries to go to school. Community colleges are SO EASY that anyone who shows up is basically promised a 3.0...get a 3.0 at community college and you basically get automatic entrance into any state school...

My best friend GM's a campus bar and I work there one night a week with 100 frat guys who are U of I students...

They are some of the dumbest people on the planet...it's 100 wannabe "The Situations"...no joke. These are the kids who are in school today...these are the "supposed" future...

I say bullshit. They are LAZY. I work with them every day. They want money handed to them without doing any work...money for just being "who they are"...pampered by the people who brought them into the world...it's disgusting.

Sooner (rather than later) employers are going to be looking for more than a bachelor's degree...I can promise that. A ton of these kids are going to flame out once they hit the real world...I guarantee it.

Baconeater
02-04-2011, 10:27 PM
Well you could try to get a construction job and in 20 years every part of your body will be fucked and you'll have no benefits, retirement or hope.

If college isn't for you...military, trade school...anyfucking thing is better than just entering the workforce out of high school.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 10:31 PM
the lack of basic common sense I see is scary...

and in all honesty I blame community colleges for a lot of the issues...

They let EVERYONE in...and there are SO MANY DUMB PEOPLE it's impossible to teach...you'd be amazed. I graduated (and trust me I am not proud of this degree at all) from a community college and did it without ever reading a book...just using Wikipedia. I put forth no effort...I took stupid ass classes...and all the teachers cared about was turning something in...I'd answer questions in a humanities class about art that I knew nothing about by writing a paragraph or two of nonsense and I got in A in the class...I remember nothing...other than one Goya piece because it was some fucked up thing eating its child.

and I got an A in that class...I got an A in early childhood development by taking it online...forgetting to turn in half of my assignments...acing our "open book" final exam...and then writing an email to my teacher telling her I was angry she didn't respond to emails or participate in class discussions so I never knew where I stood...and that I'd want a refund back because I "sacrificed" my livelihood by paying for my own college (I didn't) while working a full time job (it was part time) and that she put forth no effort to try and help me better my life (the biggest sop story bullshit email I've ever written)...and she responded with an apology and raised my grade from a C to an A...

seriously...

community colleges are the root of all evil and they let all of the trash students like myself seep into the 4 years which in turns waters down all of those classes since the professors have to then deal with all of the dipshits who don't belong

Rain Man
02-04-2011, 10:33 PM
The military sounds like a good idea if you're the right type for it. It seems like it would be best to do that only if you're enthused about being in the military.

Through my work, I've come to hear that truck drivers are in demand, as was mentioned earlier. A client of mine couldn't even find applicants for several truck driving jobs. Granted, those jobs required a hazardous cargo license, but I think even regular truck driving jobs are in demand.

And of course, college can't hurt. As much as I hate to say it, I'd recommend degree programs that have a clear career path over a general education degree, given the job environment. But of course, you should do what you're most interested in.

The bottom line, though, is that you should pursue what you love. Anything else will be a detour to that ultimate path anyway.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 10:34 PM
and yes, I'm somewhat bitter because I still continue to realize the best route for me would be to have a bachelors (at least) but I think I'm done with school (at least for now)...I'm just a terrible student with no desire to go through motions I don't want to go through...I still plan on stumbling into something, or tripping over a lump sum of money so I can sit around and play Xbox all day.

LiveSteam
02-04-2011, 10:35 PM
and yes, I'm somewhat bitter because I still continue to realize the best route for me would be to have a bachelors (at least) but I think I'm done with school (at least for now)...I'm just a terrible student with no desire to go through motions I don't want to go through...I still plan on stumbling into something, or tripping over a lump sum of money so I can sit around and play Xbox all day.

Join the navy

Shogun
02-04-2011, 10:38 PM
I am 20 Turtle. If you want to get drunk and lose some fingers sometime hit me up

cdcox
02-04-2011, 10:38 PM
the lack of basic common sense I see is scary...

and in all honesty I blame community colleges for a lot of the issues...

They let EVERYONE in...and there are SO MANY DUMB PEOPLE it's impossible to teach...you'd be amazed. I graduated (and trust me I am not proud of this degree at all) from a community college and did it without ever reading a book...just using Wikipedia. I put forth no effort...I took stupid ass classes...and all the teachers cared about was turning something in...I'd answer questions in a humanities class about art that I knew nothing about by writing a paragraph or two of nonsense and I got in A in the class...I remember nothing...other than one Goya piece because it was some ****ed up thing eating its child.

and I got an A in that class...I got an A in early childhood development by taking it online...forgetting to turn in half of my assignments...acing our "open book" final exam...and then writing an email to my teacher telling her I was angry she didn't respond to emails or participate in class discussions so I never knew where I stood...and that I'd want a refund back because I "sacrificed" my livelihood by paying for my own college (I didn't) while working a full time job (it was part time) and that she put forth no effort to try and help me better my life (the biggest sop story bullshit email I've ever written)...and she responded with an apology and raised my grade from a C to an A...

seriously...

community colleges are the root of all evil and they let all of the trash students like myself seep into the 4 years which in turns waters down all of those classes since the professors have to then deal with all of the dipshits who don't belong

Dude. You are smart enough to do just about anything you want. You could have gone to a four year school and taken a challenging program and could have good career. You aren't living up to 10% of your potential, and that is all on you.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 10:39 PM
I would never join the military...

don't care enough about any of that shit to either

A) have my head blown off or
B) have to blow someone else's head off

I'll let everyone else fight for my freedom while I sip on some pink lemonade and bk all over some n00bs in the Halo lobbies.

trndobrd
02-04-2011, 10:42 PM
As you may or may not know, I am a recently graduated high school student. My question to the community is do any of you have ideas for jobs that require a high school diploma and have full time/close to full time hours? I currently work at Cracker Barrel washing dishes, and it is my first and only job. It is a pretty enjoyable job, but in January and February the hours are just too low.
I would love to get a job with at least 30+ hours, but I just have soo many ideas. Maybe a stroke of inspiration will come with a suggestion. Any and all are appreciated. My goal is to get this job and make Cracker Barrel my second job.

Update: Also, any ideas to make myself more marketable to potential employers?

There are plenty of decent paying jobs available for people with an education and minimal experience. There are also many jobs available for those with experience and no college. Not much out there for people with neither, especially in this job market.

If you are healthy and don't have a drug or criminal record, the military is your best bet. You sound like you aren't afraid of hard work, so you might as well make some decent money and let Uncle Sam train you and give you more experience than you would ever get in the civilian sector. Anything from air traffic controller, mail handler, fuel operator, warehouseman, etc, a lot of those fields are filled with people who got their start in the military because there are few ways to get the necessary training otherwise.

If you aren't interested in the active or reserve military, you might want to think about building trades, especially electrical or plumbing. You'll have to spend some low paying years as an apprentice, but in a few years you will be able to make serious money. Those are much easier on the body than framing or roofing.

Truck driving was also a good recommendation. If there is anything available with the railroad, that might be a good choice.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 10:44 PM
Dude. You are smart enough to do just about anything you want. You could have gone to a four year school and taken a challenging program and could have good career. You aren't living up to 10% of your potential, and that is all on you.

I understand my bitterness should be directed at myself and myself only...

However, at this point I don't want to go to school anymore. I don't want to be a lawyer or a doctor, and I know I'd be qualified to do just about anything else I'd ever want to do.

I hate the fact that a piece of paper is the best way to ever show your worth to an potential employer...

I've held jobs at 3 places in the last 7 years...I've never been fired, I've never quit, and I've never even put in a two week notice...and I've never called in sick. Ever. Twice, the place I worked at shut down overnight...otherwise I'd still be working there...and any manager/general manager I ever worked for would give me an amazing recommendation.

How is that not more valuable than getting a bachelor's degree in communication at a state school? Really? I work with so many dipshits that have BIG 10 DEGREES that are...dipshits. I like them. They are my friends...and I'd never let them work for me if I were to own a place of business.

But hey, they are the future...hopefully they'll be paying for my welfare when I turn to meth in a few months.

RedNFeisty
02-04-2011, 10:46 PM
If you were my son, I would have had you prepped and ready to go to a coastal college. In high school, I would have suggested you work retail or somewhere like Family Video (our popular Blockbuster rental stores). Family video has a good management program and helps pay college tuition.

Military is another good option, like others have suggested. Pick a career path and follow it through the military. If you are a good student, I might suggest linguist (learning several languages) in the military and being a translator. Imagine all the cool shit you could get yourself wrapped up in.

trndobrd
02-04-2011, 10:46 PM
I would never join the military...

don't care enough about any of that shit to either

A) have my head blown off or
B) have to blow someone else's head off

I'll let everyone else fight for my freedom while I sip on some pink lemonade and bk all over some n00bs in the Halo lobbies.


:shake:

JD10367
02-04-2011, 10:46 PM
this
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2kRVN_RQYkI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I have nothing to contribute to this thread, but if those two are of legal age I'd hit it.

Rain Man
02-04-2011, 10:50 PM
To some extent I agree with The Meat Dragon's assertion about the value of a degree. Bachelor's degrees today are the equivalent of a high school diploma 40 years ago. They're very common, and there are a lot of people who obtain them without learning anything. If you want to do that, you can.

And if you do that, the degree's not going to be worth very much. Because the truth is, you shouldn't be earning a degree, you should be earning an education. If you just pay money and coast, you're not going to learn much and you're not going to get much value out of a degree. And eventually employers are going to recognize that your degree's not worth much, and you'll be worse off for it. However, the person who graduated the same year with the same degree who learned a lot and worked hard will end up with a degree that's worth a lot more.

It's all about what you put into it.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 10:51 PM
and so I don't hijack the thread any further...

my point is...I hate how everyone just assumes someone should go to college. I think that's the most flawed logic we have going these days.

Now I understand my false sense of entitlement will always hold me back...it's a flaw that I can't overcome...

I just think employers would find better workers, and workers who would be willing to prove their worth...if they'd stop weeding out everyone without a college degree.

I would sign any clause in any employment contract that would result in termination if I didn't meet expectations in a specific period of time without the ability to file for unemployment or a lawsuit etc. etc. etc.

I don't know if that's legal, but I would do it. I think a personal guarantee is worth more than a damn college degree (now, there are definitely degrees that are impressive, and I'm not talking about those)...

College should be attended by people who belong there...

Baconeater
02-04-2011, 10:53 PM
I'd like to know where these colleges are where you can get a degree without learning anything.

Deberg_1990
02-04-2011, 10:53 PM
I would never join the military...

don't care enough about any of that shit to either

A) have my head blown off or
B) have to blow someone else's head off

I'll let everyone else fight for my freedom while I sip on some pink lemonade and bk all over some n00bs in the Halo lobbies.

Not every military job is a frontline infantry type...Navy, Air Force.......

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 10:53 PM
:shake:

sorry brah

I have respect for those who go the military route...it's a very respectful profession, and to my knowledge they take care of the ones who buy in etc. etc.

just not my cup of tea...

not a violent person and have no desire to fire a gun or be trained to fire a gun

never interested me in the slightest bit

I'd rather work as a jizz mopper at an adult arcade than join the military

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 10:55 PM
Not every military job is a frontline infantry type...Navy, Air Force.......

yeah yeah, just not my cup of tea

I'd rather sling pizzas and hang with college kids for the rest of my life

Dallas Chief
02-04-2011, 10:55 PM
Just read this today on Yahoo Finance

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/108014/10-jobs-with-high-pay-and-minimal-schooling-required.html?mod=career-salary_negotiation

Article is a little long so I thought I would spare everybody the cut and paste. Plus you could try the US Post Office, and any of the major airlines. Starting pay at the airlines is pretty crappy but probably more than you are making now. Baggage handling, cleaning crews, customer service, etc. Plus you would probably get travel benefits with that.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 11:00 PM
I'd like to know where these colleges are where you can get a degree without learning anything.

I'm generalizing...you'll learn things and occasionally put in some work

I've gotten more A's for friends than myself...shit, I probably have 16 credit hours of A's at ISU doing two of my friends homework for free tabs at the bar they worked at...

but I'm telling you...

this website (wikipedia.org) has rendered schools like ISU totally...fucking...useless (for most degrees)...

My roommate (had a job waiting for him with his dad upon graduation) and another very close friend who I roomed with at ISU both have degrees in economics...and they both know nothing about economics...nothing. Zero. Zilch.

I took a Micro and a Macro class at community college thinking they'd just wiz through it for me...those assholes didn't know anything. Nothing.

I proofread their final papers for their last class and I can't even begin to explain how terrible these papers were...and they were both graded as C's...and they both graduated and now have degrees...

and while my roommate wasn't as bad, the other kid is one of the dumbest people I know, skipped 70% of his classes, and literally partied with me every night. Every night. And he didn't even have the common sense to bullshit through a class like I do...so I have no idea how he did it...but he did.

And I'm sorry...but I can't respect a basic college degree (like he has) if he has one. No way.

He watched The Departed with me in theater...and at the end of the movie...he asked me if Leo and Matt were on the same side.

Deberg_1990
02-04-2011, 11:01 PM
How about Police, Fire Dept, Railroad jobs....

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 11:04 PM
How about Police, Fire Dept, Railroad jobs....

another friend I have

he has a good degree, he has a great background, no criminal history, one of the most respectable people I know...he's in sick shape, he's a remarkable sprinter...he can put up 225 lbs 10 times (and weighs 200 lbs)...just in great shape...

they won't let him be a police officer in Champaign County...keeps getting rejected.

they'll hire a 20 year old girl...or a black dude..

but not someone who is the definition of qualified...

makes a lot of sense

LiveSteam
02-04-2011, 11:06 PM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/S0uw8jhQx5U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



CNN reporter to marine sniper: what does it feel like to shoot a terrorist?

marine: *shrugs* recoil

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 11:06 PM
he has a tremendous work background, a well known family in the area (and successful), he is not a racist prick like most of my other friends...works out 6 days a week...smart guy too

yet he doesn't qualify even though they are hiring??\

stupid fucking equal rights bullshit...

yeah I'd be real scared of a 100 lb. white girl cop...let me tell ya

my Chicago cop friend hates it more than anything...puts his life on the line working in Inglewood and he has a 90 lb. white girl cop having his back...real fucking safe

listopencil
02-04-2011, 11:07 PM
You should try getting into porn.

RedNFeisty
02-04-2011, 11:07 PM
How about Police, Fire Dept, Railroad jobs....


Other good options, but is you want to move up the ladder in firefighting, I think you need a degree in Fire Science.

Shogun
02-04-2011, 11:07 PM
I have played too much on Call of Duty to consider going into the Army

Pablo
02-04-2011, 11:10 PM
Join the service. Give yourself some time to see if that's what fits you. If it does, keep at it. If it doesn't; find out what fits you while the Gov't pays for all your schooling.

If you're going the 4-year degree route fine. The market is absolutely saturated right now with college graduates with no experience. Get an internship as soon as the last semester of your sophomore year if you can and gut it out. It will be worth it. Don't go to school and dick off until the last semester and run out looking for a job with a piece of paper and no experience to go along with it.

Get a degree in biology, chemistry, or engineering if you're smart enough. These are the hard classes. Folks that take the hard classes in college get rewarded when they get out. Take this advice. Don't get a generic business degree; or any sort of fine arts degree unless you plan on going into teaching.

If you can get in as an apprentice for an Union job(carpenter, electrician, plumber, etc.)...go after it. When you're 24 and you're making $30+ an hour you'll have a nice set-up.

Oh, and seriously in whatever you do.

NETWORK. NETWORK. NETWORK. There is no substitution for knowing people. It doesn't matter what your work history may be, or your education is; people like to hire people they know or that were directly referred to them by an employee. 9 out of 10 applications that aren't referrals just drop in the shredder instantly. Some companies are required by law to review a certain number of applications, but references are truly the guiding light.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 11:11 PM
you'll never see me bash an engineering degree

holy shit

lots of money in that field...I don't think I'd be smart enough for something like that...especially not at the U of I...I'm not that naive.

Pablo
02-04-2011, 11:14 PM
I'd like to know where these colleges are where you can get a degree without learning anything.You can obtain a degree from nearly any 4 year institution with very little effort.

College is really about what you put in. If you actually take difficult courses and truly apply yourself it's a worthwhile experience. Join clubs. Take initiative to be a leader in some respect, even if that's just being a VP for your major's club. Be a tutor. Network.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-04-2011, 11:16 PM
and yes, I'm somewhat bitter because I still continue to realize the best route for me would be to have a bachelors (at least) but I think I'm done with school (at least for now)...I'm just a terrible student with no desire to go through motions I don't want to go through...I still plan on stumbling into something, or tripping over a lump sum of money so I can sit around and play Xbox all day.

Maybe you got so little out of your associates because you put so little in. Even shitty schools have good teachers. When you want blow off classes, you get blow off instructors.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 11:17 PM
lets put it this way

I've learned more on ChiefsPlanet from the time that I joined than I ever learned in college.

That is not a lie.

I will say, my mindset out of high school was "party and girls" not "schooling and networking"...that's for damn sure.

Buehler445
02-04-2011, 11:18 PM
To some extent I agree with The Meat Dragon's assertion about the value of a degree. Bachelor's degrees today are the equivalent of a high school diploma 40 years ago. They're very common, and there are a lot of people who obtain them without learning anything. If you want to do that, you can.

And if you do that, the degree's not going to be worth very much. Because the truth is, you shouldn't be earning a degree, you should be earning an education. If you just pay money and coast, you're not going to learn much and you're not going to get much value out of a degree. And eventually employers are going to recognize that your degree's not worth much, and you'll be worse off for it. However, the person who graduated the same year with the same degree who learned a lot and worked hard will end up with a degree that's worth a lot more.

It's all about what you put into it.

I'd agree with this wholeheartedly. I have an MBA, and busted my tail to learn some shit. I didn't learn as much as I thought I might, but there were people that went through that learned very, very little.

and so I don't hijack the thread any further...

my point is...I hate how everyone just assumes someone should go to college. I think that's the most flawed logic we have going these days.

Now I understand my false sense of entitlement will always hold me back...it's a flaw that I can't overcome...

I just think employers would find better workers, and workers who would be willing to prove their worth...if they'd stop weeding out everyone without a college degree.

I would sign any clause in any employment contract that would result in termination if I didn't meet expectations in a specific period of time without the ability to file for unemployment or a lawsuit etc. etc. etc.

I don't know if that's legal, but I would do it. I think a personal guarantee is worth more than a damn college degree (now, there are definitely degrees that are impressive, and I'm not talking about those)...

College should be attended by people who belong there...

Rain Man is right, Degrees are like Diplomas were 40 years ago. Accordingly, if you don't get a degree, it will be like not getting a diploma 40 years ago. That's why most people say you should go to college. You need to do so to become average.

Pablo
02-04-2011, 11:19 PM
lets put it this way

I've learned more on ChiefsPlanet from the time that I joined than I ever learned in college.

That is not a lie.

I will say, my mindset out of high school was "party and girls" not "schooling and networking"...that's for damn sure.If I could talk to myself coming out of high-school I'd just slap the mother loving shit out of me and say: "When you go off to college; show some initiative to be a leader in the classroom and off campus and network your balls off".

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 11:19 PM
Maybe you got so little out of your associates because you put so little in. Even shitty schools have good teachers. When you want blow off classes, you get blow off instructors.

100% agree...

There are great students even at JUCO's...and JUCO is the right route to go for non scholarship students...

Just spittin' some truth about how easy it is to juke the system...and the majority of students do it...you don't even have to be smart to do it.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 11:22 PM
If I could talk to myself coming out of high-school I'd just slap the mother loving shit out of me and say: "When you go off to college; show some initiative to be a leader in the classroom and off campus and network your balls off".

you and me both buddy

I'm happy about my failures at that age because they have made me a better person (I know, hard to believe)...and I think I'm more prepared for the future because of it...

I've learned so much working in the bar/restaurant industry I wouldn't trade it for anything (experience wise)...just wish I could have stumbled into it a different way.

I regret the fact I went to ISU in the first place...I should have just gone to a JUCO right away...I was naive as could be...

the choices I made my first half year out of high school and away at school were the worst choices I made in my entire life...

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-04-2011, 11:22 PM
lets put it this way

I've learned more on ChiefsPlanet from the time that I joined than I ever learned in college.

That is not a lie.

I will say, my mindset out of high school was "party and girls" not "schooling and networking"...that's for damn sure.

Look, I'm with you on the fact that 80% of people who enroll in college aren't there for the right reasons. Most of them only care about the fact that it gives them a degree that will confer upon them the ability to get a job. But that's not what college is supposed to, or ever was, about. It's about teaching people to think critically and independently about situations and problems, and become self-sufficient in teaching themselves while also being able to communicate that knowledge.

I'm also no fan of educational or grade inflation. Usually once a semester I have to give one or more courses a rant on how you are not given a grade for being a corpse in a chair, you earn the grade you get. A lot of instructors don't want to put up with the bitching or poor reviews, so they hand out A's like candy.

It should be interesting to see my teacher reviews next semester. I gave out 9 A's over 4 courses.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 11:25 PM
and replying to the other guy...

I'm not going to go get a bachelor's degree to "just be average"...

Forget that...I'm done with it. I hate school...more than anything in the world. It depresses me to no end...

If I can't get a job because I don't have a bachelor's degree than I'll just have to be a happy waiter/bartender for the rest of my life...oh well. I decided I'm officially ok with it...I might take a shot or two down the road (not at college)...but meh. I'm done trying the college route...it makes me miserable.

cdcox
02-04-2011, 11:26 PM
you'll never see me bash an engineering degree

holy shit

lots of money in that field...I don't think I'd be smart enough for something like that...especially not at the U of I...I'm not that naive.

A 25 on the math ACT is the lowest acceptable score for admittance to our engineering program as a freshman. But if you coasted through high school, you probably didn't get the best score you were capable of had you worked at it. I've seen lots of kids that weren't that bright make it through an engineering curriculum and go on to a good career through hard work. Maybe engineering doesn't interest you, but I think you're smart enough to get through a program if you wanted to work at it. You won't get into Illinois with that kind of score, but I bet you could get into SIU.

LiveSteam
02-04-2011, 11:26 PM
teenage waist land
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Rain Man
02-04-2011, 11:28 PM
I'm also no fan of educational or grade inflation. Usually once a semester I have to give one or more courses a rant on how you are not given a grade for being a corpse in a chair, you earn the grade you get. A lot of instructors don't want to put up with the bitching or poor reviews, so they hand out A's like candy.

It should be interesting to see my teacher reviews next semester. I gave out 9 A's over 4 courses.

Good for you. I think that's a hard thing to do, but it's what makes an education valuable. If everyone has a 4.0 at the end, it's a disservice to everybody.

I teach a college course occasionally, and grading is the only part I don't like. And I hate it, so admittedly I'm too easy. I shouldn't be.

Pablo
02-04-2011, 11:29 PM
Look, I'm with you on the fact that 80% of people who enroll in college aren't there for the right reasons. Most of them only care about the fact that it gives them a degree that will confer upon them the ability to get a job. But that's not what college is supposed to, or ever was, about. It's about teaching people to think critically and independently about situations and problems, and become self-sufficient in teaching themselves while also being able to communicate that knowledge.

I'm also no fan of educational or grade inflation. Usually once a semester I have to give one or more courses a rant on how you are not given a grade for being a corpse in a chair, you earn the grade you get. A lot of instructors don't want to put up with the bitching or poor reviews, so they hand out A's like candy.

It should be interesting to see my teacher reviews next semester. I gave out 9 A's over 4 courses.Yeah, grade inflation is truly a disheartening matter. I was surprised just how little I had to do in most of my 300 level courses to get a B. All I had to do was put forth moderate effort and I could easily get a A. Some of my 400 level Econ courses were a motherfucker and I had to bust my nuts for a B, but all things considered; obtaining a B.S. was far too easy. I student-taught English 100 workshops and I was expected to assign grades to all of the students(mostly for participation and attendance) and I gave the vast majority of them C's. Some D's. A couple F's. A's should be harder to earn than they are.

The profs told me to grade them as I saw fit. So I did.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 11:29 PM
well you don't have to worry about me in your class Jenkins...

my "dare to be great" situation is not going to involve a bachelors...I'm donezo with that part of my life...

but like I said...I have a good work ethic...always have...my job history reflects that...and I'd sign any employment clause to protect the employer in any way to negate any risk they'd have in hiring such an "underqualified" degreeless ingrate life myself.

would someone with a degree do that? I don't need anything handed to me...I don't mind earning my stripes. Just sick of going to school...more of a bottom line kind of guy...I've yet to have a friend who's had their degree do ANYTHING for them. It's always who you know.

cdcox
02-04-2011, 11:32 PM
100% agree...

There are great students even at JUCO's...and JUCO is the right route to go for non scholarship students...

Just spittin' some truth about how easy it is to juke the system...and the majority of students do it...you don't even have to be smart to do it.

You may think you're juking the system, but students who do that are just juking themselves. You get exactly what you put into it.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 11:33 PM
A 25 on the math ACT is the lowest acceptable score for admittance to our engineering program as a freshman. But if you coasted through high school, you probably didn't get the best score you were capable of had you worked at it. I've seen lots of kids that weren't that bright make it through an engineering curriculum and go on to a good career through hard work. Maybe engineering doesn't interest you, but I think you're smart enough to get through a program if you wanted to work at it. You won't get into Illinois with that kind of score, but I bet you could get into SIU.

SIU is the biggest partying school in Illinois...I'm not sure I'd be a great fit ROFL

I am not ruling anything out...at this point furthering my education isn't on the to do list. I'm so jaded, I'd rather be a non-college graduate success story anyways...

When I'm 50 I want to be able to attend every single Los Angeles Chiefs game they play...home and away. That's really my only goal right now.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-04-2011, 11:35 PM
well you don't have to worry about me in your class Jenkins...

my "dare to be great" situation is not going to involve a bachelors...I'm donezo with that part of my life...

but like I said...I have a good work ethic...always have...my job history reflects that...and I'd sign any employment clause to protect the employer in any way to negate any risk they'd have in hiring such an "underqualified" degreeless ingrate life myself.

would someone with a degree do that? I don't need anything handed to me...I don't mind earning my stripes. Just sick of going to school...more of a bottom line kind of guy...I've yet to have a friend who's had their degree do ANYTHING for them. It's always who you know.

A lot of times it can be who you know, that's definitely true. With that said, it's kind of hard to use this current economy as a climate, as 1996 Jenna Jameson would have a hard time getting hired to suck dicks on Capitol Hill.

If you don't want to go to school, that's probably a win/win, because you aren't weighing down the system and you aren't burdening yourself to do something you hate.

Superturtle
02-04-2011, 11:38 PM
I like to think I am pretty smart. 1800 on the sat but unfortunately my freshman year dragged me down gpa wise. I was actually thinking about going for some type of networking in college.

Pablo
02-04-2011, 11:39 PM
Superturtle, have you taken the ACT, SAT, or ASVAB?

If so, what areas are you best at?

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 11:39 PM
You may think you're juking the system, but students who do that are just juking themselves. You get exactly what you put into it.

I continue to agree...

My struggles started early...

I moved from OP, KS to Illinois in 7th grade to a schooling system that was far, far behind the one I went to in OP...

My 7th grade classes featured everything I had already learned in 5th grade in Kansas...

So I was "the smart kid" who didn't have to do anything but sit there and laugh at how easy everything was...

it caught up to me in high school...and my laziness really hit a bump when I got addicted to fantasy sports when I was 15 years old...and instant messenger when I started liking girls...

and schooling was never a priority and my mom was far too easy on me

so I know where my laziness in academics all stems...and I never could take it seriously and after a while I just stopped caring at all...I just hate it. I hate astronomy. I hate biology. I hate chemistry. I hate history.

I am not interested. Not one bit. I hated it all, and I still hate it today.

Ever watch "are you smarter than a 5th grader?" I might be the dumbest person who would ever play that show...

I know nothing...the only thing I cared about when I was a kid was Michael Jordan and the Chiefs...that was it. My roommates and I used to play that 5th grader show for fun when we were bored...I'm embarrassed to tell you guys some of the stuff I got wrong.

The Bad Guy
02-04-2011, 11:39 PM
I hate the fact that a piece of paper is the best way to ever show your worth to an potential employer....

The piece of paper is reflective on how hard you will work over an extended period of time for a goal.

I think it's also not getting anyone in any doors by itself. You need experience in your bachelor's area to have a chance with this economy.

Building the resume, while going to school (or learning a trade) is always the best course of action.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-04-2011, 11:40 PM
Good for you. I think that's a hard thing to do, but it's what makes an education valuable. If everyone has a 4.0 at the end, it's a disservice to everybody.

I teach a college course occasionally, and grading is the only part I don't like. And I hate it, so admittedly I'm too easy. I shouldn't be.

I was way too easy when I was a grad student just because I wasn't totally sure of myself, and I was so young. It's hard to be a toughass on kids four years younger than you.

Eventually, I realized that I wasn't doing them a service if I gave them an A for B level work, or a B for C level work, so I didn't. I don't grade on a Bell Curve, either, and I'm not a Nazi by any means. If you show up, do all your work, read and participate, you'll probably get a B, but you'll get that B because doing those things have helped you learn.

I had a lot of really talented students bomb the shit out of a lit course I taught last semester simply because they thought they could BS their way through it. What astounds me is how transparent a lot of that bullshit is from the perspective of someone who knows the subject. I hope mine was of a higher caliber :|

The Bad Guy
02-04-2011, 11:41 PM
I know nothing...the only thing I cared about when I was a kid was Michael Jordan and the Chiefs...that was it. My roommates and I used to play that 5th grader show for fun when we were bored...I'm embarrassed to tell you guys some of the stuff I got wrong.

It wasn't until I taught 5th grade that I realized how much shit I had forgotten. You aren't alone.

I think everything you are listing points to you needing to go back to college just to get well-rounded.

Superturtle
02-04-2011, 11:41 PM
Look one post above.

Short Leash Hootie
02-04-2011, 11:53 PM
Look one post above.

like I said man

18 years old...

you're washing dishes at a chain restaurant right now...work your ass off...be available...when you're 19 try and see if you can move up to being a server...save up for a few years...and if you think college is the right thing for you start off taking some JUCO courses...you don't have to be full time...only spend what you can afford...if it takes you 3 or 4 years 6 credit hours at a time and you stay debt free...do it.

When you're 24 and only making $20K a year...you can basically go to college for free...so much grant money (at least in Illinois)...

but yeah...19 is a great time to hit up the restaurant industry...if you are a good server or bartender and get the good shifts you'll make more money doing that than anything else you'd be doing...

When I was 22 and working at the busiest Bennigan's in Chicago...I was making $30+ an hour...now I can't tell you how stressful the job was...it's not for most people. The "lifers" were basically all nutjobs...my roommate and I were fresh and dealt with the bullshit better than most...

but if you have the skillset it can open up doors pretty quickly for you...

when I was 18 I got a drinking ticket on probation and my lawyer told me I had to get a job or I might go to jail for it...so I started as a busboy at a Bennigan's and I quickly moved up the ranks just like you could do at Cracker Barrel...it's a much better job than some of the people try and paint around here...and at a big chain like Cracker Barrel there is plenty of opportunity...the GM I worked for in Chicago started as a hostess when she was 16, never went to school, and she was 40 and making well over six figures as a GM of two of the higher volume chains...

The key is hard work and availability...when I was 18 I only had to bus tables for two months before they made me a server but I busted my ass and always came to work on my days off when a manager called me in...

BigRedChief
02-04-2011, 11:54 PM
lets put it this way

I've learned more on ChiefsPlanet from the time that I joined than I ever learned in college.

That is not a lie.

.your welcome

OnTheWarpath58
02-05-2011, 12:04 AM
Cracker Barrel?

I'll give you a dollar if you tell me how the fuck you guys make your pancakes taste so fucking incredible.

Fairplay
02-05-2011, 01:01 AM
I always thought this part in this movie was funny.
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Buehler445
02-05-2011, 01:15 AM
and replying to the other guy...

I'm not going to go get a bachelor's degree to "just be average"...

Forget that...I'm done with it. I hate school...more than anything in the world. It depresses me to no end...

If I can't get a job because I don't have a bachelor's degree than I'll just have to be a happy waiter/bartender for the rest of my life...oh well. I decided I'm officially ok with it...I might take a shot or two down the road (not at college)...but meh. I'm done trying the college route...it makes me miserable.

The fact that you don't want to do it does not change the fact that bachelors degrees are pretty much the standard now. If you're comfortable without one, cool. It's your life.

I was just telling you why everyone in this thread is suggesting the dude go to college.
Posted via Mobile Device

Miles
02-05-2011, 01:42 AM
like I said man

18 years old...

you're washing dishes at a chain restaurant right now...work your ass off...be available...when you're 19 try and see if you can move up to being a server...save up for a few years...and if you think college is the right thing for you start off taking some JUCO courses...you don't have to be full time...only spend what you can afford...if it takes you 3 or 4 years 6 credit hours at a time and you stay debt free...do it.

When you're 24 and only making $20K a year...you can basically go to college for free...so much grant money (at least in Illinois)...

but yeah...19 is a great time to hit up the restaurant industry...if you are a good server or bartender and get the good shifts you'll make more money doing that than anything else you'd be doing...

When I was 22 and working at the busiest Bennigan's in Chicago...I was making $30+ an hour...now I can't tell you how stressful the job was...it's not for most people. The "lifers" were basically all nutjobs...my roommate and I were fresh and dealt with the bullshit better than most...

but if you have the skillset it can open up doors pretty quickly for you...

when I was 18 I got a drinking ticket on probation and my lawyer told me I had to get a job or I might go to jail for it...so I started as a busboy at a Bennigan's and I quickly moved up the ranks just like you could do at Cracker Barrel...it's a much better job than some of the people try and paint around here...and at a big chain like Cracker Barrel there is plenty of opportunity...the GM I worked for in Chicago started as a hostess when she was 16, never went to school, and she was 40 and making well over six figures as a GM of two of the higher volume chains...

The key is hard work and availability...when I was 18 I only had to bus tables for two months before they made me a server but I busted my ass and always came to work on my days off when a manager called me in...

I know this has been repeated a hell of a lot and not something you want to continue hearing. Are you really that resistant to applying your work ethic towards college?

I understand if you are fine where you are but don't really get your complaints about your friends achieving more.

Iowanian
02-05-2011, 08:48 AM
If you're not going to college, you need to be thinking about full-time work. If you're looking at part time, at your age you're going to be stuck washing dishes or selling blueblockers at the mall.

If you don't think 4yr college or military is your idea of a good time...go see a local community college and talk to a counselor about trade programs. Not far from here, there are options in welding, robotics, CAD and other trade related skills that will put you in a pretty decent job.

If you're willing to work hard and be dependable, you'll be able to find good work.

If you're handy and not college interested...find a trade and become an apprentice.
There are plenty of ways to make a good living.

I learned on Chiefsplanet yesterday that you're probably qualified to be an excellent letter carrier.

Bob Dole
02-05-2011, 09:09 AM
I know a smart girl who got a spanish degree from the U of I while racking up nearly six figures in student loans...


Seriously, you're poking holes in the college degree angle based on someone who got a degree in SPANISH? WTF did she THINK she was going to do with that?

tmax63
02-05-2011, 09:13 AM
30 years ago a HS diploma was required for anything. Today it's a bachelors. Often employers didn't care how or what it was in, just that you had one. Why? It showed you could finish what you started even if it was always fun. They might not have to worry about you showing up on time or calling in sick and so on. Most government jobs require a degree now if you want more than $10-12/hr. starting. Military says you can finish and work with others, 2 highly sought after traits. Do what you like but realize that if you need something to get your foot in the door. Knowing someone, having a degree, an honorable discharge they are all just ways to get you a chance. After that it's on you.

vailpass
02-05-2011, 09:36 AM
Customer service for major call centers such as American Express, Discover, etc. offer entry-level employment starting aroung $14/hr. plus full benefits including tuition reimbursement. You can support yourself and work your way up. If you are so inclined you can further your education nights/weekends, even online, while having most of it payed for by your employer.

-King-
02-05-2011, 09:56 AM
I'm in the same boat except I'm actually in college now. Started of as a engineering student just cause that's what my parents told me to do. Jesus Christ, I've never been that depressed. They had recently graduated students come talk to us and thats when I knew that I couldn't be an engineer. They just looked like all the life was sucked out of them. I couldn't do that shit.

So now, I don't even know what I'm in school for. I've never been a school guy. Hated the fuck out of High School. Only subject that's interesting and fun to me is history and I know I can't major in that.

If I stay in school and do something I really like, it would be sports management but I don't know if that has a good career path or not. Probably not. I would love to become a sports agent when I grow up...but likely not going to happen.

I spoke with TinyE like during the summer via PMs about the advertising thing and I got real interested in it. But the advertising major (through Journalism) here at Mizzou requires atleast a 29 on the ACT to be admitted. I only got a 27. Can someone please explain how the fuck a Journalism major is required to have a higher ACT score than a Engineering major?

Basically, I don't know what to do. I like going to career fairs just to see if I can hear about any careers that would be interesting to me and so far...nope.

patteeu
02-05-2011, 10:23 AM
If you were my son, I would have had you prepped and ready to go to a coastal college. In high school, I would have suggested you work retail or somewhere like Family Video (our popular Blockbuster rental stores). Family video has a good management program and helps pay college tuition.

Military is another good option, like others have suggested. Pick a career path and follow it through the military. If you are a good student, I might suggest linguist (learning several languages) in the military and being a translator. Imagine all the cool shit you could get yourself wrapped up in.

Why a coastal college?

Discuss Thrower
02-05-2011, 10:31 AM
Why a coastal college?

Parrrrrrrrty!

Or, more than likely, better connections / networking.

Anyway, I'm freaking glad I'm fortunate enough to go to college without any sort of debt but I'm wondering WTF am I gonna do if I can't go to some top flight law school (as these days a lot of JD holders are told to get bent on attorney positions)

Brock
02-05-2011, 10:36 AM
Learn to weld, you'll always have a job.

Short Leash Hootie
02-05-2011, 10:59 AM
Seriously, you're poking holes in the college degree angle based on someone who got a degree in SPANISH? WTF did she THINK she was going to do with that?

I know...so stupid.

patteeu
02-05-2011, 11:01 AM
your welcome

Now you're trying to sabotage him. :p

Rain Man
02-05-2011, 11:05 AM
Learn to weld, you'll always have a job.

Until the aliens take over, because they don't weld.

Rain Man
02-05-2011, 11:09 AM
I spoke with TinyE like during the summer via PMs about the advertising thing and I got real interested in it. But the advertising major (through Journalism) here at Mizzou requires atleast a 29 on the ACT to be admitted. I only got a 27. Can someone please explain how the **** a Journalism major is required to have a higher ACT score than a Engineering major?


That's interesting. You would hope that the entry requirements are related to a student's chances of success, but if those are the requirements it makes me wonder if it's simply a matter of admissions. There's probably a lot more competition to get into a journalism program, while engineering programs likely can use more students.

Brock
02-05-2011, 11:16 AM
That's interesting. You would hope that the entry requirements are related to a student's chances of success, but if those are the requirements it makes me wonder if it's simply a matter of admissions. There's probably a lot more competition to get into a journalism program, while engineering programs likely can use more students.

They're not lining up for the abuse you have to take to get an engineering degree.

Hydrae
02-05-2011, 11:16 AM
and replying to the other guy...

I'm not going to go get a bachelor's degree to "just be average"...

Forget that...I'm done with it. I hate school...more than anything in the world. It depresses me to no end...

If I can't get a job because I don't have a bachelor's degree than I'll just have to be a happy waiter/bartender for the rest of my life...oh well. I decided I'm officially ok with it...I might take a shot or two down the road (not at college)...but meh. I'm done trying the college route...it makes me miserable.

Wow, I feel like I am reading posts made by myself 30+ years ago. Dude, stop trying to fool yourself this way.

When I graduated H.S. in 1978 I went to Oregon State for a few weeks. I was not applying myself and not even going to classes. I looked around and thought, "I am a smart guy. I bet I can make just as much 4 years from now if I hit the work force as I would staying here in school. Screw this, too many other things to do than sit in classrooms."

I have done ok at best. I work at a call center on a salary based at just above $20 an hour. I also spent 15 years in the food industry, a lot of that as assistant manager. It has been a good life and I realize that those experiences have made me the person I am and I kinda like myself. :D

A couple of years ago I realized that I had a problem. I have nothing in savings, not much in a 401k and suddenly retirement is closer to my front window than high school is in my rear view mirror. My wife started working on an Associates Degree and I kept helping her with her homework (especially math, she hates it and I was always good at it). I realized that I was still a pretty smart guy and could do this stuff too. So, here I am at 50 going to school so I can get in the door somewhere into a job that will pay me much more and allow me to start (very belatedly) to get that retirement idea squared away. When I graduate in a couple of years I should be set to start working as a DBA which, with experience, can pay very nicely. Also, I think I will be good at it which will increase my value in the marketplace.

Hootie, don't follow these footsteps. It has not been a bad life but not going to school when I was in my twenties was definitely a mistake.

Oh, btw, I have been going to University of Phoenix for a year now and my lowest grade so far has been a couple of A-'s. With a few transferred credits from the local community college from classes several years ago I am on the cusp of being a junior and have a GPA of 3.93.

patteeu
02-05-2011, 11:31 AM
There's probably a lot more competition to get into a journalism program, while engineering programs likely can use more students.

I'm sure that's the answer in this case. Mizzou's journalism school is top tier.

Demonpenz
02-05-2011, 11:49 AM
I will pay you 10 dollars an hour to be my wingman and I'll give you the keys to the world

Demonpenz
02-05-2011, 11:52 AM
As apart of my Demonpenz internship you will be required to sign up on as many message boards as possible posting underneth the Demonpenz brand. And post my jokes and stories.

luv
02-05-2011, 12:02 PM
Wow, I feel like I am reading posts made by myself 30+ years ago. Dude, stop trying to fool yourself this way.

When I graduated H.S. in 1978 I went to Oregon State for a few weeks. I was not applying myself and not even going to classes. I looked around and thought, "I am a smart guy. I bet I can make just as much 4 years from now if I hit the work force as I would staying here in school. Screw this, too many other things to do than sit in classrooms."

I have done ok at best. I work at a call center on a salary based at just above $20 an hour. I also spent 15 years in the food industry, a lot of that as assistant manager. It has been a good life and I realize that those experiences have made me the person I am and I kinda like myself. :D

A couple of years ago I realized that I had a problem. I have nothing in savings, not much in a 401k and suddenly retirement is closer to my front window than high school is in my rear view mirror. My wife started working on an Associates Degree and I kept helping her with her homework (especially math, she hates it and I was always good at it). I realized that I was still a pretty smart guy and could do this stuff too. So, here I am at 50 going to school so I can get in the door somewhere into a job that will pay me much more and allow me to start (very belatedly) to get that retirement idea squared away. When I graduate in a couple of years I should be set to start working as a DBA which, with experience, can pay very nicely. Also, I think I will be good at it which will increase my value in the marketplace.

Hootie, don't follow these footsteps. It has not been a bad life but not going to school when I was in my twenties was definitely a mistake.

Oh, btw, I have been going to University of Phoenix for a year now and my lowest grade so far has been a couple of A-'s. With a few transferred credits from the local community college from classes several years ago I am on the cusp of being a junior and have a GPA of 3.93.

I envy those who figured out that life isn't all about the here and now back when they were young. I wish I would have.

I have a friend who is 23 that is going to college. He hates it. I try to tell him that a few years of being "miserable" now pay off so much in the future. And, just think, he'll have 50 years to have fun.

Sure, a college degree may not necessarily land you a job, but anything you can put on your resume to give you an edge over others is worth it.

luv
02-05-2011, 12:07 PM
I haven't read all of the responses, but I just thought I'd add this. Finding a good job is almost more about networking than anything else. Once you figure out what you may want to do, do something that gets you connected to someone doing the same thing. Referrals are where it's at.

DeezNutz
02-05-2011, 12:24 PM
That's interesting. You would hope that the entry requirements are related to a student's chances of success, but if those are the requirements it makes me wonder if it's simply a matter of admissions. There's probably a lot more competition to get into a journalism program, while engineering programs likely can use more students.

The larger problem in this case is that he's at the best journalism school in the country. Naturally, it's harder to get into than other programs that are not of comparable standing at the same institution.

The reason why I believe so many "hate" college is that they simply don't understand what the university is meant to be and what it has to offer; it's not about going to class and "learning stuff." The first indication that people don't understand is when they lament the need for a magic piece of paper.

A university environment should be, first and foremost, about developing a sense of intellectual agency.

chiefzilla1501
02-05-2011, 12:41 PM
I'm in the same boat except I'm actually in college now. Started of as a engineering student just cause that's what my parents told me to do. Jesus Christ, I've never been that depressed. They had recently graduated students come talk to us and thats when I knew that I couldn't be an engineer. They just looked like all the life was sucked out of them. I couldn't do that shit.

So now, I don't even know what I'm in school for. I've never been a school guy. Hated the **** out of High School. Only subject that's interesting and fun to me is history and I know I can't major in that.

If I stay in school and do something I really like, it would be sports management but I don't know if that has a good career path or not. Probably not. I would love to become a sports agent when I grow up...but likely not going to happen.

I spoke with TinyE like during the summer via PMs about the advertising thing and I got real interested in it. But the advertising major (through Journalism) here at Mizzou requires atleast a 29 on the ACT to be admitted. I only got a 27. Can someone please explain how the **** a Journalism major is required to have a higher ACT score than a Engineering major?

Basically, I don't know what to do. I like going to career fairs just to see if I can hear about any careers that would be interesting to me and so far...nope.

You're one of millions in the same boat. I wouldn't do sports management. I know people who have grad degrees in it and even grad students had to work unpaid internships back-to-back-to-back just for an outside chance of full-time placement. There's no money in it and everybody wants to do it.

Most people find that every 2 or 3 jobs (maybe even your first), you figure out what you're good at and you start building a career path in that direction. And the majority of them do stuff they didn't think they'd do. For example, you could start as an accountant, realize you really like people and decide to go into sales.

Point is, dont' get frustrated, keep at it, and realize that almost nobody falls into the job or career of their dreams. Cynical advice, but find a career that you don't hate, find the skill set you're really good at, and find a way to make both work. Realize that every entry level job has tradeoffs. You're either going to make a shitload of money doing bitch work that makes you want to kill yourself or you'll make no money for years doing something you love (and maybe, hopefully, you'll advance one day).

chiefzilla1501
02-05-2011, 12:50 PM
I'm going to go ahead and say it. A recently-acquired Masters/MBA has almost become a negative. Employers are starting to look at people with advanced degrees and no work experience as people taking the easy route. Show me somebody who slogged through the real word when the economy was bad instead of retreating back to school, and I'll show you someone with determination. There are so many people with advanced degrees anymore that they have become a dime a dozen.

I respectfully disagree, as long as your Master's degree makes sense. Yeah, if you have a Master's in 8th century German Literature, there's not much for you. But an MBA, Engineering degree, etc.... you can't get certain jobs unless you have it, and you'll get bypassed for certain jobs by those who have them unless you are really, really good at what you do.

chiefzilla1501
02-05-2011, 12:52 PM
Seriously, you're poking holes in the college degree angle based on someone who got a degree in SPANISH? WTF did she THINK she was going to do with that?

There's a lot of things you can do with a Spanish degree. A ton. Hispanics are going to comprise a significant portion of the population in 10 years. She's probably struggling with her career because most entry level employees do and because the economy sucks. I can guarantee that major will be extremely useful in several years.

But again, it doesn't even matter what you major in. The degree will open doors for people who take the initiative to walk through them. Can't blame the institution if people don't take that initiative.

Brock
02-05-2011, 12:56 PM
There's a lot of things you can do with a Spanish degree. A ton. Hispanics are going to comprise a significant portion of the population in 10 years. She's probably struggling with her career because most entry level employees do and because the economy sucks. I can guarantee that major will be extremely useful in several years.

But again, it doesn't even matter what you major in. The degree will open doors for people who take the initiative to walk through them. Can't blame the institution if people don't take that initiative.

Majoring in Spanish qualifies you to:

1. Teach Spanish.

2. Absolutely nothing else.

DeezNutz
02-05-2011, 01:02 PM
Majoring in Spanish qualifies you to:

1. Teach Spanish.

2. Absolutely nothing else.

Sets her up well to go on for an MBA in international business.

luv
02-05-2011, 01:03 PM
I'm in the same boat except I'm actually in college now. Started of as a engineering student just cause that's what my parents told me to do. Jesus Christ, I've never been that depressed. They had recently graduated students come talk to us and thats when I knew that I couldn't be an engineer. They just looked like all the life was sucked out of them. I couldn't do that shit.

So now, I don't even know what I'm in school for. I've never been a school guy. Hated the fuck out of High School. Only subject that's interesting and fun to me is history and I know I can't major in that.

If I stay in school and do something I really like, it would be sports management but I don't know if that has a good career path or not. Probably not. I would love to become a sports agent when I grow up...but likely not going to happen.

I spoke with TinyE like during the summer via PMs about the advertising thing and I got real interested in it. But the advertising major (through Journalism) here at Mizzou requires atleast a 29 on the ACT to be admitted. I only got a 27. Can someone please explain how the fuck a Journalism major is required to have a higher ACT score than a Engineering major?

Basically, I don't know what to do. I like going to career fairs just to see if I can hear about any careers that would be interesting to me and so far...nope.

Wow. Try focusing on what you can do, what you're good at, and what you enjoy. You're creating your own roadblocks.

Hydrae
02-05-2011, 01:03 PM
Majoring in Spanish qualifies you to:

1. Teach Spanish.

2. Absolutely nothing else.

Bi-linguals have a better shot at getting jobs these days. I have been passed up for a job for someone with less qualifications because they knew Spanish.

luv
02-05-2011, 01:03 PM
I hear the post office will hire any bum off the street.

Brock
02-05-2011, 01:04 PM
Sets her up well to go on for an MBA in international business.

Well, maybe. It would make a lot more sense to get a business degree with a minor in Spanish.

Brock
02-05-2011, 01:04 PM
I hear the post office will hire any bum off the street.

I hear the bigger the butt, the bigger the butthurt.

Brock
02-05-2011, 01:05 PM
Bi-linguals have a better shot at getting jobs these days. I have been passed up for a job for someone with less qualifications because they knew Spanish.

Knowing Spanish doesn't require a Spanish degree.

luv
02-05-2011, 01:05 PM
I hear the bigger the butt, the bigger the butthurt.

Hey, I'm just saying what you know to be true. Easy money.

Brock
02-05-2011, 01:06 PM
Hey, I'm just saying what you know to be true. Easy money.

Go become more interesting.

luv
02-05-2011, 01:07 PM
Go become more interesting.

How ironic.

Brock
02-05-2011, 01:08 PM
How ironic.

I'm neither lonely nor unemployed. How's that for irony?

luv
02-05-2011, 01:10 PM
Parrrrrrrrty!

Or, more than likely, better connections / networking.

Anyway, I'm freaking glad I'm fortunate enough to go to college without any sort of debt but I'm wondering WTF am I gonna do if I can't go to some top flight law school (as these days a lot of JD holders are told to get bent on attorney positions)

Go to law school, get your degree, and pass the state bar for where you want to practice. Sure, prestigious schools impress people, but they're not a necessity.

luv
02-05-2011, 01:14 PM
I'm neither lonely nor unemployed. How's that for irony?

JFC. You win.

luv
02-05-2011, 01:19 PM
If you're not going to college, you need to be thinking about full-time work. If you're looking at part time, at your age you're going to be stuck washing dishes or selling blueblockers at the mall.

If you don't think 4yr college or military is your idea of a good time...go see a local community college and talk to a counselor about trade programs. Not far from here, there are options in welding, robotics, CAD and other trade related skills that will put you in a pretty decent job.

If you're willing to work hard and be dependable, you'll be able to find good work.

If you're handy and not college interested...find a trade and become an apprentice.
There are plenty of ways to make a good living.

I learned on Chiefsplanet yesterday that you're probably qualified to be an excellent letter carrier.

LMAO I see I'm not the first one who attempted cross-thread humor.

patteeu
02-05-2011, 01:23 PM
I respectfully disagree, as long as your Master's degree makes sense. Yeah, if you have a Master's in 8th century German Literature, there's not much for you. But an MBA, Engineering degree, etc.... you can't get certain jobs unless you have it, and you'll get bypassed for certain jobs by those who have them unless you are really, really good at what you do.

Saul didn't seem to be denigrating all advanced degrees. He was talking about the guy who gets an advanced degree with no experience. I agree with you that some job doors will be all but shut and locked tight to you without the right advanced degree, but a lot of those end up being jobs you aren't ready for until you have a few/several years of relevant experience. But for entry level jobs, the MBA is only of marginal value (if any value at all) in most cases.

Spott
02-05-2011, 03:06 PM
You could always try to get an entry level job with a big company, even if it's a job sorting mail or something like that. I've worked for one of the largest corporations in the world for 17 years and they didn't require any kind of college degree to get hired on. Although I did have an AA degree at the time, I didn't need it to get hired and I really haven't needed it since. Once you get your foot in the door, if you work hard and keep your nose clean, you can do all kinds of thing once you have a good work history.

chiefzilla1501
02-05-2011, 03:23 PM
Saul didn't seem to be denigrating all advanced degrees. He was talking about the guy who gets an advanced degree with no experience. I agree with you that some job doors will be all but shut and locked tight to you without the right advanced degree, but a lot of those end up being jobs you aren't ready for until you have a few/several years of relevant experience. But for entry level jobs, the MBA is only of marginal value (if any value at all) in most cases.

There's some degree of truth to that. I would recommend to most people to get at least one year under your belt before getting a grad degree. I know I walked out of college like an immature prick and was taken down a million pegs. I've seen some people go straight to an MBA--if you can nail an interview, you can get away with no experience. If you can't, then you should build experience first.

Of course, if you're going to med school and to some extent law school, you should go in right away.

Jenson71
02-05-2011, 03:29 PM
Military.

I was all signed up for the ROTC before my mom and girlfriend made me get out. If I didn't have a girlfriend then, I would be an officer in the Army right now, probably. Fortunately, I'm still with her, so I don't have a huge regret.
You wouldn't be an officer by enlisting, but the benefits of military service are deep. Then you can go to college for a lot cheaper afterward.

chiefzilla1501
02-05-2011, 03:32 PM
Majoring in Spanish qualifies you to:

1. Teach Spanish.

2. Absolutely nothing else.

The Hispanic Market is now at about 15% and is projected to well over eclipse 20% in less than 10 years. Businesses are ramping up for that seismic shift. She can get into Hispanic Marketing/advertising, where she'd be asked to understand what makes Hispanics tick and her fluency would help her decipher marketing pieces/ads. She can go into hispanic-focused sales. International business. Some sort of customer service role where there is a large Spanish clientele, or any kind of consulting role where they deal with Spanish clientele. And that's just on the business side.

More importantly, if you network, you find a powerful Hispanic who works for a company you work for, and that's a huge conversation starter.

You can make good use of any degree if you think creatively.

Miles
02-05-2011, 03:59 PM
Go to law school, get your degree, and pass the state bar for where you want to practice. Sure, prestigious schools impress people, but they're not a necessity.

So long as you do quite well at the less prestigious school or network well you will be fine.

Fairplay
02-05-2011, 04:03 PM
I'm neither lonely nor unemployed. How's that for irony?



Or a post whore.

Okie_Apparition
02-05-2011, 04:06 PM
Go work for temp agencies and bounce around a bit. Find out what you like and what you can tolerate. There are things out there you might be good at you didn't know existed. College will be there in a couple years if you have not knocked up a waitress. Don't go to Mizzu it will only make you a MUron and tarnish that HS diploma.

chiefzilla1501
02-05-2011, 04:21 PM
So long as you do quite well at the less prestigious school or network well you will be fine.

Pretty much. But law school can be a different animal. A lot of people have told me that if you're not top 10% of your class (or a gorgeous blonde), getting a job in a firm can be extremely difficult. You have to network your ass off. The post-law degree life isn't as cooshy as it sounds.

WilliamTheIrish
02-05-2011, 04:22 PM
Majoring in Spanish qualifies you to:

1. Teach Spanish.

2. Absolutely nothing else.

More than that Brock. Hospitals, courts of law, LEO's, lots of businesses all use them. Still, it's a niche market. At best. And they will hire entry level and use them as dual purpose employees to further limit the chances.

eazyb81
02-05-2011, 04:33 PM
Go to law school, get your degree, and pass the state bar for where you want to practice. Sure, prestigious schools impress people, but they're not a necessity.

This isn't necessarily true. Law placement is highly dependent on school prestige and class rank, and placement with a top firm is why most people take on the huge debt burden and three years of forgone income.

Sure, if you just want to be a lawyer and do not mind making $50,000/year working as assistant prosecutor in Beatrice, Nebraska, just go to any school that accepts you. But most people seriously considering law have higher hopes than that.

-King-
02-05-2011, 04:37 PM
Wow. Try focusing on what you can do, what you're good at, and what you enjoy. You're creating your own roadblocks.

Like I said...I'm good at and enjoy sports and history.

Thats about it. I'm not interested in computers, engineering, or anything of that sort.

BTW, Hey Rain Man, what do you do? You own your own company right?

BigRedChief
02-05-2011, 04:38 PM
Pretty much. But law school can be a different animal. A lot of people have told me that if you're not top 10% of your class (or a gorgeous blonde), getting a job in a firm can be extremely difficult. You have to network your ass off. The post-law degree life isn't as cooshy as it sounds.plus, I don't even have an associates degree and I make more money than 75% of lawyers.

Lawyers are like athletes, only a few ever make the big money.

-King-
02-05-2011, 04:40 PM
You could always try to get an entry level job with a big company, even if it's a job sorting mail or something like that. I've worked for one of the largest corporations in the world for 17 years and they didn't require any kind of college degree to get hired on. Although I did have an AA degree at the time, I didn't need it to get hired and I really haven't needed it since. Once you get your foot in the door, if you work hard and keep your nose clean, you can do all kinds of thing once you have a good work history.

Heh, kind of what my sister did, except she did have a Accounting or Financing degree from Mizzou. She started out as a mail sorter, and eventually got promoted. A few weeks ago, she got promoted to a job in Philly which pays pretty nice.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-05-2011, 04:48 PM
That's interesting. You would hope that the entry requirements are related to a student's chances of success, but if those are the requirements it makes me wonder if it's simply a matter of admissions. There's probably a lot more competition to get into a journalism program, while engineering programs likely can use more students.

It's more of your second line of thinking.

MU's engineering program is a second tier school even in their own system. Rolla's engineering school is more prestigious. Meanwhile, the MU J school is second to none in the country.

Rain Man
02-05-2011, 05:05 PM
Like I said...I'm good at and enjoy sports and history.

Thats about it. I'm not interested in computers, engineering, or anything of that sort.

BTW, Hey Rain Man, what do you do? You own your own company right?

What is it about sports and history that interests you? If it's tracking statistics or figuring out the interconnections between events, there are jobs that involve that. While it may be fun to track sports statistics or figure out the interconnections between Napoleon and the Louisiana Purchase, you might get close enough tracking production statistics or the interconnections between departments, and get paid for it. Along the lines of what's been mentioned before, one goal of getting a history degree is learning history. The other goal is to learn how to take a complex series of seemingly unrelated events and make sense out of them, and there's a viable corporate demand for that.

As for me, my company is a research and strategy firm. Clients come to us to get information and guidance on key decisions, usually either to address a challenge or to identify and exploit an opportunity. For some clients we do all three steps: develop information, identify insights, and develop strategies. For other clients we'll do one or two of those. Whuffo you ask?

luv
02-05-2011, 05:11 PM
This isn't necessarily true. Law placement is highly dependent on school prestige and class rank, and placement with a top firm is why most people take on the huge debt burden and three years of forgone income.

Sure, if you just want to be a lawyer and do not mind making $50,000/year working as assistant prosecutor in Beatrice, Nebraska, just go to any school that accepts you. But most people seriously considering law have higher hopes than that.

Most lawyers I've met have gone into law because it interested them and they wanted to help people. You can also start in the ranks and work your way up. Criminal law? Crime happens everywhere. You win enough cases, and you can start building your resume that way as well. Opportunities are only what you make of them. Work experience is just as good, if not better, than what school you went to.

Fish
02-05-2011, 05:16 PM
Have you considered being a pimp?

It ain't easy......

AndChiefs
02-05-2011, 05:25 PM
I'm going to go ahead and say it. A recently-acquired Masters/MBA has almost become a negative. Employers are starting to look at people with advanced degrees and no work experience as people taking the easy route. Show me somebody who slogged through the real word when the economy was bad instead of retreating back to school, and I'll show you someone with determination. There are so many people with advanced degrees anymore that they have become a dime a dozen.

I don't know if I agree with that.... (although I'm certainly not impartial).

I just graduated with my MBA after going to back to school in 2008. I left a decent (but not great) paying job in which I had great job security to do it. The reason? I know that I have more to offer my employer than what I was able to do in my previous position. So, I decided to return to school to learn more and show those companies that I am worth their investment.

Yes, I could have "slogged" through the real world during this recession doing the same work I did before. If I had gone this route I would not be determined, I would be risk averse. I took a chance on hitting the job market at the right time to advance my career and through hard work and determination I intend to reach those goals. I would never have that opportunity if I had taken the safe route.

-King-
02-05-2011, 05:36 PM
What is it about sports and history that interests you? If it's tracking statistics or figuring out the interconnections between events, there are jobs that involve that. While it may be fun to track sports statistics or figure out the interconnections between Napoleon and the Louisiana Purchase, you might get close enough tracking production statistics or the interconnections between departments, and get paid for it. Along the lines of what's been mentioned before, one goal of getting a history degree is learning history. The other goal is to learn how to take a complex series of seemingly unrelated events and make sense out of them, and there's a viable corporate demand for that.

As for me, my company is a research and strategy firm. Clients come to us to get information and guidance on key decisions, usually either to address a challenge or to identify and exploit an opportunity. For some clients we do all three steps: develop information, identify insights, and develop strategies. For other clients we'll do one or two of those. Whuffo you ask?

Because you and TinyE seem to have the most interesting jobs that you also seem to like...and doesn't turn you into a-holes like Dane.

eazyb81
02-05-2011, 05:38 PM
Most lawyers I've met have gone into law because it interested them and they wanted to help people. You can also start in the ranks and work your way up. Criminal law? Crime happens everywhere. You win enough cases, and you can start building your resume that way as well. Opportunities are only what you make of them. Work experience is just as good, if not better, than what school you went to.

No offense but you sound very naive. In reality, most people go to law school because they want to be successful and wealthy, and they don't like blood so med school isn't an option.

Yes, "crime happens everywhere"' but again the majority of people going law school have higher career aspirations than working in a podunk town for $50,000 a year. Law school is expensive and rational people weigh school expenses and opportunity cost of not working for three years to decide if the decision makes financial sense. Virtually all law students dream of going to Big Law and earning hundreds of thousands a year in income, eventually working their way up to partner.

These goals are difficult to achieve, but almost impossible if you do not attend a top school and finish near the top of your class. Thus, blankly saying "work experience is better" ignores the fact that getting top level work experience is very difficult if you do not get placed in a top firm upon graduating from a top law school.

-King-
02-05-2011, 05:42 PM
No offense but you sound very naive. In reality, most people go to law school because they want to be successful and wealthy, and they don't like blood so med school isn't an option.

QFT.

eazyb81
02-05-2011, 05:42 PM
I don't know if I agree with that.... (although I'm certainly not impartial).

I just graduated with my MBA after going to back to school in 2008. I left a decent (but not great) paying job in which I had great job security to do it. The reason? I know that I have more to offer my employer than what I was able to do in my previous position. So, I decided to return to school to learn more and show those companies that I am worth their investment.

Yes, I could have "slogged" through the real world during this recession doing the same work I did before. If I had gone this route I would not be determined, I would be risk averse. I took a chance on hitting the job market at the right time to advance my career and through hard work and determination I intend to reach those goals. I would never have that opportunity if I had taken the safe route.

Good points, but your argument loses some merit if you are unemployed as your tagline says you are.

NewChief
02-05-2011, 05:44 PM
You can make it out there without a college degree, but you better show some initiative. I actually think our world is completely ripe for young entrepreneurs. You need to start distinguishing yourself in some way and start really pursuing your passions. There is lots of money out there, but you need to go after it and start working toward it. Find what you love and figure out how to monetize it.

My best example: one of my former students (just graduated last year from high school), has a passion for food. He'd moved to Arkansas from Houston and found he couldn't get the ingredients he was accustomed to getting in Houston. This led him to start seeking out ingredients. Long story short: he became a truffle importer, was bringing down around 30k a year his senior year in high school, and now lives in NYC as the American representative of an italian truffle company. The kid is 18 years old and is living the dream... without ever attending college.

People are ripe for taking young people seriously for business ventures in a way that they never have before, thanks to the internet culture and the amount of money young geniuses have been able to generate. If you're not someone with that kind of initiative, though, you need to learn a trade or go to college.

Chiefs Pantalones
02-05-2011, 05:45 PM
I'm sure this has already been said...

go to college, get your degree. End of thread.

AndChiefs
02-05-2011, 05:52 PM
Good points, but your argument loses some merit if you are unemployed as your tagline says you are.

Heh, so it hasn't worked as well for me as I've hoped so far. :)

But I did just graduate in late December.

chiefzilla1501
02-05-2011, 05:55 PM
Like I said...I'm good at and enjoy sports and history.

Thats about it. I'm not interested in computers, engineering, or anything of that sort.

BTW, Hey Rain Man, what do you do? You own your own company right?

Like I said, you'll probably never find something perfect and an endless search for that dream job is only going to lead you to disappointment and a downward career path. Sorry to break that to you, but it's true. Most people end up doing something they didn't think they would ever do but have found a way to make it work. If you're comfortable making close to no money, living paycheck to paycheck doing something you absolutely positively love, then do it. But if you really want to build a career that can support you, you'll have to make a tradeoff somewhere.

If you love sports, there are millions of alternate ways to make that work outside of actual sports. I have a buddy with an engineering degree who now plans marathons and couldn't be happier. You can work for an event manager that puts on events at sporting events. You can work for a Marketing group that supports their business' sports sponsorships.

chiefzilla1501
02-05-2011, 05:56 PM
Heh, so it hasn't worked as well for me as I've hoped so far. :)

But I did just graduate in late December.

Yeah, in this economy, you're not the only one. I still think you made a good move.

NewChief
02-05-2011, 05:57 PM
I should say that the greatest problem facing this generation is that they have some of the greatest earning potential at young ages, but they also have some of the most unrealistic underestimation of the amount of work required to reach that earning potential.

Way too many of them think that it's just going to fall into their lap. The kid I referenced in my earlier post busted his ass to get where he is... no slacking.

BigRedChief
02-05-2011, 06:05 PM
Because you and TinyE seem to have the most interesting jobs that you also seem to like...and doesn't turn you into a-holes like Dane.hey I'm designing a infrastructure that is utilizing "self-aware" technology.Not just a bunch of rules and policies that are automatically processed by a program, but real live decisions are made by the program not based on rules but what it thinks is right. Same basic set up as the fictional Skynet. Let's hope this turns out better. :D

It's interesting to me anyway.

-King-
02-05-2011, 06:08 PM
hey I'm designing a infrastructure that is utilizing "self-aware" technology.Not just a bunch of rules and policies that are automatically processed by a program, but real live decisions are made by the program not based on rules but what it thinks is right. Same basic set up as the fictional Skynet. Let's hope this turns out better. :D

It's interesting to me anyway.

The product is interesting to me. The process of making it is not interesting in the least though.

Iowanian
02-05-2011, 06:41 PM
I talk to, big brother and mentor quite a few young people.
I never tell anyone they HAVE to have a 4 yr degree, but I encourage every one of them to at least try a semester or year, for the experience and networking alone if nothing else.

Everyone doesn't need a MS in English, but I know several young men with 2 year CAD degrees who are doing fine, and I know 3 young men who went to a welding program that was less than a year, and they're making more money than I am.

If you pick the right skill, you'll be able to get a job in 5 minutes and earn a good living.
The world doesn't have enough welders, electricians, plumbers, decent woodworkers(finish trim etc).

you can find your niche and do well.

AndChiefs
02-05-2011, 07:02 PM
I talk to, big brother and mentor quite a few young people.
I never tell anyone they HAVE to have a 4 yr degree, but I encourage every one of them to at least try a semester or year, for the experience and networking alone if nothing else.

Everyone doesn't need a MS in English, but I know several young men with 2 year CAD degrees who are doing fine, and I know 3 young men who went to a welding program that was less than a year, and they're making more money than I am.

If you pick the right skill, you'll be able to get a job in 5 minutes and earn a good living.
The world doesn't have enough welders, electricians, plumbers, decent woodworkers(finish trim etc).

you can find your niche and do well.

Great Points here.

BigRedChief
02-05-2011, 07:37 PM
The product is interesting to me. The process of making it is not interesting in the least though.Ypu can't just jump to where you want to be without a little blood, sweat and tears,.

you really need to mature a little anyway. Not a diss of you personally. At 18 I left home to go to New Orleans without a job, not even a high school diploma or any money in my pocket. Thats was pretty damn immature.

I ended up working offshore in the gulf of Mexico working on the oil rigs washing dishes. Got a cook to teach me how to cook. Got a job as a cook.Worked my way up to the manager of the oil rig by 20, making $1000 a week back in 1979. It can be done but your going to have to hustle for that coin.

chiefzilla1501
02-05-2011, 07:43 PM
I should say that the greatest problem facing this generation is that they have some of the greatest earning potential at young ages, but they also have some of the most unrealistic underestimation of the amount of work required to reach that earning potential.

Way too many of them think that it's just going to fall into their lap. The kid I referenced in my earlier post busted his ass to get where he is... no slacking.

I agree. And I think a lot of that is because we're afraid to tell people the truth. We tell them that hard work and perserverence are enough. But you can't just work hard in law school, you have to be smarter than 90% of your class and able to network like a mofo. Not to mention that med school doctors, formerly a go-to for those who want a surefire high income job, are incurring ridiculous debt in med school and are getting paid less and less and less once they're out of residency.

The truth is, it takes hard work, persistence after failing, and a lot of luck.

Jenson71
02-05-2011, 07:54 PM
No offense but you sound very naive. In reality, most people go to law school because they want to be successful and wealthy, and they don't like blood so med school isn't an option.

There's a lot of truth there, but it's not so much that they don't like blood, it's more that biology and chemistry wasn't as easy or interesting to them as history, political science, business courses.

Most of my classmates don't exactly have an idea of what they want to do, yet. Probably 93% are unsure and only leaning towards (health law, public law, business law, etc.).


Yes, "crime happens everywhere"' but again the majority of people going law school have higher career aspirations than working in a podunk town for $50,000 a year. Law school is expensive and rational people weigh school expenses and opportunity cost of not working for three years to decide if the decision makes financial sense. Virtually all law students dream of going to Big Law and earning hundreds of thousands a year in income, eventually working their way up to partner.

As you enter, no doubt this is most often the case, it seems. Then as they matriculate through the semesters, students start looking at what are realistic opportunities.

-King-
02-05-2011, 08:05 PM
Ypu can't just jump to where you want to be without a little blood, sweat and tears,.

you really need to mature a little anyway. Not a diss of you personally. At 18 I left home to go to New Orleans without a job, not even a high school diploma or any money in my pocket. Thats was pretty damn immature.

I ended up working offshore in the gulf of Mexico working on the oil rigs washing dishes. Got a cook to teach me how to cook. Got a job as a cook.Worked my way up to the manager of the oil rig by 20, making $1000 a week back in 1979. It can be done but your going to have to hustle for that coin.

Its not that I don't work hard..its just that technological things aren't for me. My current boss loves me. And that's an understatement. If I'm working, I'm the best worker there is. Get me to something that even remotely interests me, and I'll be the best you've seen doing it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Jenson71
02-05-2011, 08:07 PM
Like I said...I'm good at and enjoy sports and history.

Become a sports historian. Write books and articles about sports history. Some academic, some popular.

wazu
02-05-2011, 08:08 PM
Become a sports historian. Write books and articles about sports history. Some academic, some popular.

Or he could become a pro athlete and make sports history.

NewChief
02-05-2011, 08:10 PM
Its not that I don't work hard..its just that technological things aren't for me. My current boss loves me. And that's an understatement. If I'm working, I'm the best worker there is. Get me to something that even remotely interests me, and I'll be the best you've seen doing it.
Posted via Mobile Device

So it's your goal in life to find what interests you and monetize it. This is something I'm currently struggling with (maybe I'm having a mid life crisis). I love teaching, and I'm pretty danged good at it. Still, I'm not sure that teaching high school students is my area of "genius." People who know me and interact with me regularly all say that facilitating discussion, bringing out creative ideas within other people, and eloquently synthesizing diverse ideas into a workable plan are my real areas of "genius." In other words, I have a perfect skill set to be in upper management and creative direction... but I'm not really doing that right now. I could also get into the professional development side of education (which is where all the money gets thrown around), but I have an ethical issue with that.

So, yeah. Although I love teaching, I'm really considering re-evaluating my career.

chiefzilla1501
02-05-2011, 08:10 PM
Its not that I don't work hard..its just that technological things aren't for me. My current boss loves me. And that's an understatement. If I'm working, I'm the best worker there is. Get me to something that even remotely interests me, and I'll be the best you've seen doing it.
Posted via Mobile Device

If that's the case, then start setting up informational interviews with anyone and everyone. Take 10-15 minutes and ask them what a day in their life is like. You do enough of those, and I guarantee you figure out... not exactly what you love to do. Moreso, what you're not going to hate doing.

Jenson71
02-05-2011, 08:10 PM
Or he could become a pro athlete and make sports history.

Shit, then he could write about himself! That's like double the salary.

NewChief
02-05-2011, 08:12 PM
Become a sports historian. Write books and articles about sports history. Some academic, some popular.

IN all seriousness: he should start a sports history blog or something. Start networking around those interests. See where it leads.

Jenson71
02-05-2011, 08:14 PM
If that's the case, then start setting up informational interviews with anyone and everyone. Take 10-15 minutes and ask them what a day in their life is like. You do enough of those, and I guarantee you figure out... not exactly what you love to do. Moreso, what you're not going to hate doing.

And, to cut to the chase, if you really like smelling flatulence, then you want to become a gastroenterologist.

Jenson71
02-05-2011, 08:15 PM
IN all seriousness: he should start a sports history blog or something. Start networking around those interests. See where it leads.

Yeah, Bill James dibbled around with the sports section while working as a security guard. Now he's working as a consultant for the Boston Red Sox.

Jenson71
02-05-2011, 08:20 PM
There's a lot going on with sports. It's a $50 trillion industry (slightly exaggerated). It's the national religion. It gives people meaning to their lives, the way that Christianity used to. People are serious about it.

Okie_Apparition
02-05-2011, 09:21 PM
Is there one person on this site with a foot in reality?

-King-
02-05-2011, 09:22 PM
Is there one person on this site with a foot in reality?

You mean realty?

Jenson71
02-05-2011, 09:38 PM
Is there one person on this site with a foot in reality?

Hell no.

AndChiefs
02-05-2011, 09:41 PM
Is there one person on this site with a foot in reality?

Great...post?

LoneWolf
02-06-2011, 12:44 AM
Look, I'm with you on the fact that 80% of people who enroll in college aren't there for the right reasons. Most of them only care about the fact that it gives them a degree that will confer upon them the ability to get a job. But that's not what college is supposed to, or ever was, about. It's about teaching people to think critically and independently about situations and problems, and become self-sufficient in teaching themselves while also being able to communicate that knowledge.

I'm also no fan of educational or grade inflation. Usually once a semester I have to give one or more courses a rant on how you are not given a grade for being a corpse in a chair, you earn the grade you get. A lot of instructors don't want to put up with the bitching or poor reviews, so they hand out A's like candy.

It should be interesting to see my teacher reviews next semester. I gave out 9 A's over 4 courses.

I started teaching a Production and Operations Management class in the evenings this semester and I was surprised at how little the students actually wanted to participate in their own learning. In my syllabus, I stated that they would be docked points for missing class without proper notification and that pop quizzes would be a common practice in my class. I also told them that they would be graded on class participation as well as tests and a comprehensive final. I spent an hour after the first class listening to complaints that the class sounded too difficult. Have you dealt with this same type of reaction, or do I just have a class full of whiners?

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-06-2011, 01:11 AM
I started teaching a Production and Operations Management class in the evenings this semester and I was surprised at how little the students actually wanted to participate in their own learning. In my syllabus, I stated that they would be docked points for missing class without proper notification and that pop quizzes would be a common practice in my class. I also told them that they would be graded on class participation as well as tests and a comprehensive final. I spent an hour after the first class listening to complaints that the class sounded too difficult. Have you dealt with this same type of reaction, or do I just have a class full of whiners?

I've never had to deal with an hour after class of people whining, but I've definitely dealt with a shitload of excuses. I always have attendance and participation make up from 10% (in comp classes) to 30% (in lit classes). I give 12 quizzes a semester, of which I drop two. Students in my advanced Comp class usually write around 40 pages in a semester when you count all your final drafts, but that excludes work for readings, quizzes, and homework.

My lit class probably has about 60 hours of reading for the semester with another 7 one page responses, a 5-7 page paper, 12 quizzes, one time where they must lead discussion with a small group of their peers, and a comprehensive final.

If people miss more than five classes, I dock all their attendance and participation points, because I teach classes that only meet twice a week. Try staying employed at a job when you have a 20% absentee rate. I give a student a free week's worth of cuts (two for regular classes, one for the night class) and every successive absence is 1% point off their final grade. If they don't miss any classes I give them a 2% bump. If they fall asleep in class, I count them absent for the day, if they text, I throw them out.

|Zach|
02-06-2011, 07:12 AM
This is long winded and most people probably won't care but I thought maybe my experience could make someone else think about what they are doing. Everyone has their journey and their own little version of what happiness means. But your idea of happiness changes over time so what I worry about with Hooties is that he is not giving himself enough flexibility in his life to adjust when his idea of what makes him happy changes.

My road has been strange as hell. I have been fairly business savy and sharp with things of that nature most my life. I think I have just average intelligence, I am probably not going to the smartest guy in the room and am very cognizant of that. I did decent in highschool and made a poor and naive college choice even though this choice probably would not have changed the outcome one bit. All of my close friends went to the University of Missouri and I wanted to do my own thing independent of them (they are still close life long type friends) and so I enrolled at SMS now Missouri St.

I am sort of the anti Hootie in that I really loved learning and being a part of the college system. I really liked taking classes and diving into the material. Learning new things and being engaged with peers and teachers. However, I didn't have the discipline. I didn't do the busy work. I saw a lot of it as stupid stuff that took away from learning more about the subjects. Foolish I know but thats how I went about it and you can't get very far without actually doing the work. I did really well in tests but that really didn't save my ass. After a few years I couldn't keep it going...so I got a crappy retail job and tried to keep getting some credits going to a community college. I noticed that I had a hard time getting into and doing well with subjects I had no interest in. I took a semester and only signed up for classes for various things I was possibly interested in to try and find a path I could focus in on. Kind of like setting a goal and finish line for myself instead of just moving forward for the sake of moving forward. That is where I got into photography. That intro to digital photography class changed everything for me.

So the new goal was become a photographer. I felt like the Air Force was the best route for me after doing some research but their ability to call me up after I did my time was pretty much a deal breaker. I wanted to sign up for a set amount of years and be able to part ways. There were not any great programs that I could really fit myself into with MSU not having anything to offer and a votech type new media photography education was out of the question because of the already failed financial investment made in my first go around with college.

I got a job making pretty good money serving and bar tending at Country Clubs...continued this for a while. I met a lot of interesting people who were members who helped me a lot along the way. The people were fun and the money was good for the sort of job it was. I put my photography education in my own hands. I kept going out and shooting...kept learning...trying to do a wide range of things and took opportunities to shoot special stuff when I could. I saved up some money to get my pro camera set up which I still use to this day. Feeling like I was ready to get serious about taking pictures for a living I moved to KC to set up shop.

It built itself slowly. The pictures were good but my business skills were rough around the edges. This is around the time I started focusing on technology as well as photography. A friend and I started a social media consulting company when that industry was younger. We did some good things and made a little money. As it developed it became apparent that the market didn't have the ceiling we thought it might. We were acquired by a company I still do things with today.. The greatest thing I learned from all of this stuff was on the business side. How to go about communicating with clients and colleagues...how to market myself and what I do. I used all of this to focus harder on my photography business away from the actual pictures because those were doing just fine.

Through my tech dealings I befriended and partnered up with a guy who has a lot of history with success in big business. He basically made his money at the executive level and doesn't want to be in corporate America anymore. He is a talented photographer and business person so we joined forces to create what is now Westside Studio. The idea being I could help bring his photography game to another level and he could help mentor me in the non photography part of things. It has been a great deal so far.

I have been able to establish myself as a known quantity as a photographer in Kansas City doing a very wide range of things. It is pretty tough navigating in this economy. The money I bring in during the span of a year is about where I would like to be but it is unevenly distributed time wise. The up and downs can be really hard to manage. So I am trying to focus on more commercial work with businesses and more retainer type long term engagements. In addition to this the nature of photography allows me flexibility to do other work so along with my business partner we have different consulting services including the ability to do some web development, design, social media, brand building, as well as VC intelligence type work. I am trying to ramp this up when it is way cold outside and have less opportunities to shoot.

Here are a few random thoughts from my experiences.

A lot of the struggle is balancing happiness with freedom and comfort.
This is personal. What is important to you? I have traded comfort for a lot of freedom and happiness. I love what I do and someday I will be able to get that comfort level but in contrast to my friends some of them have a lot of comfort (financially) but are not as happy and don't have as much freedom. Sure there are some awesomely talented people who have it all out of the gate but a lot of times I see people juggling these things.

There are not as many things keeping people from achieving as I thought.
If you have talent you can make things happen. And when I say talent it means something very specific that you are great at...better than most people in a given market. Are you smarter than most everyone else? A good athlete? A great artist? A whiz with numbers? If you have a talent and take the time to educate yourself on a given market there is nothing stopping you from developing the ability to create a good or service...look people in the eye and offer that in exchange for money. I didn't need to wait for a photography school to tell me I was a good photographer to go out and do it. Schools can help immensely in getting skills to be a pro but don't think there isn't opportunity out there for you if are a fucking great at something.

I remember being so scared I wasn't doing this or that "the way it should be done" when at the end of the day all you need to do is be good enough to convince someone to give you money for what they do and deal with them in good faith for continued success. Very simple but good to keep in mind.

|Zach|
02-06-2011, 07:16 AM
After reading my post I felt like I was coming off as anti college. I hope people don't come away thinking that. I got a ton of value and learned so many great things during my time in college. I also squandered a lot by not using its resources to my full potential.

I feel like I am lucky I was able to find something in photography that allows me to earn a living. Really really lucky. Without the camera I would be up a shit creek.

You can make things happen without college. Learn a trade and make it work. But the resources colleges have to help you grow are crazy if you use them.

Superturtle
02-11-2011, 11:11 PM
Update for those that give a shit.(noone). I got a job at the home depot. Any experiences from there?

LiveSteam
02-11-2011, 11:27 PM
Update for those that give a shit.(noone). I got a job at the home depot. Any experiences from there?

No
But congrats on the job

Superturtle
02-12-2011, 12:06 AM
No
But congrats on the job
Thank you kind sir.

BIG_DADDY
02-12-2011, 12:24 AM
Join the Navy. Save for college, learn a trade, see the world on Uncle Sam's dime. Along the way work brutal hours for shit pay and take orders from pompous assholes.

It certainly beats washing dishes.

What r u now a fucking recruiter?

BIG_DADDY
02-12-2011, 12:25 AM
First thing you wanna do is lose that avatar, nobody is going to hire you with that.

joesomebody
02-12-2011, 12:47 AM
and yes, I'm somewhat bitter because I still continue to realize the best route for me would be to have a bachelors (at least) but I think I'm done with school (at least for now)...I'm just a terrible student with no desire to go through motions I don't want to go through...I still plan on stumbling into something, or tripping over a lump sum of money so I can sit around and play Xbox all day.
I hear you man. I did the military route then went to school for practically free. I just graduated in December and I'm having a tough time finding a job.

Luckily I already had a job while in school, or I'd be living with mom and dad. Granted, I've only been out for less than 2 months, and I'm being a little picky in what job I'll take, but I sure thought I'd have something by now.

College is what it is, and unfortunately it's turned into a big test in patience and bull shit. Most jobs I've had are a big test in patience and bull shit though, so maybe a degree from a decent school has turned into a card that says, hey... I'm good at putting up with bull shit.

College is a great big series of hoops and red tape and box checking until you finally graduate. There are probably exceptions, like maybe engineering and accounting degrees.

PornChief
02-12-2011, 01:33 AM
go to whatever it is you call it over there (technical school?) and learn to be a qualified welder. worked for me.

-King-
02-12-2011, 01:50 AM
First thing you wanna do is lose that avatar, nobody is going to hire you with that.

Yes, because jobs are going to go chiefs planet to investigate him.

Frazod
02-12-2011, 02:18 AM
What r u now a fucking recruiter?

Do you have a problem with the military?

BIG_DADDY
02-12-2011, 02:22 AM
Do you have a problem with the military?

I guess I need a sarcasm buttom. I figured you already knew me better than that.

Frazod
02-12-2011, 02:23 AM
I guess I need a sarcasm buttom. I figured you already knew me better than that.

It did seem a bit odd for you to single out that post.

BIG_DADDY
02-12-2011, 02:25 AM
It did seem a bit odd for you to single out that post.

I have all the respect in the world for our military boys. It's a hard selfless path.

Baconeater
02-12-2011, 06:05 AM
I've never had to deal with an hour after class of people whining, but I've definitely dealt with a shitload of excuses. I always have attendance and participation make up from 10% (in comp classes) to 30% (in lit classes). I give 12 quizzes a semester, of which I drop two. Students in my advanced Comp class usually write around 40 pages in a semester when you count all your final drafts, but that excludes work for readings, quizzes, and homework.

My lit class probably has about 60 hours of reading for the semester with another 7 one page responses, a 5-7 page paper, 12 quizzes, one time where they must lead discussion with a small group of their peers, and a comprehensive final.

If people miss more than five classes, I dock all their attendance and participation points, because I teach classes that only meet twice a week. Try staying employed at a job when you have a 20% absentee rate. I give a student a free week's worth of cuts (two for regular classes, one for the night class) and every successive absence is 1% point off their final grade. If they don't miss any classes I give them a 2% bump. If they fall asleep in class, I count them absent for the day, if they text, I throw them out.
Every one of my teachers has said something similar on the first day of class, but I have yet to see one of them enforce it.

Pablo
02-12-2011, 07:39 AM
Update for those that give a shit.(noone). I got a job at the home depot. Any experiences from there?
I worked at HD for about 7 months when I was in college. I worked in Hardware and at the cash register. You can get some solid sales experience, even if it is in retail.

Find out if you enjoy sales; avoid working in the Garden Center in the spring unless you enjoy a ton of manual labor. That's about all I got.

Hog Farmer
02-12-2011, 09:20 AM
This world doesn't have enough animal masturbators. you can start training at home and then go get a job in a heartbeat. Go buy yourself a dog , a goat , a pig and a horse and become your own expert. Or better yet get a job at a zoo, but don't tell them your there to self train in animal masturbating. Do you know how much you could sell Rhino semen for !!!

|Zach|
02-12-2011, 10:14 AM
This world doesn't have enough animal masturbators. you can start training at home and then go get a job in a heartbeat. Go buy yourself a dog , a goat , a pig and a horse and become your own expert. Or better yet get a job at a zoo, but don't tell them your there to self train in animal masturbating. Do you know how much you could sell Rhino semen for !!!

This schtick never gets old. :rolleyes:

Hydrae
02-12-2011, 10:40 AM
Update for those that give a shit.(noone). I got a job at the home depot. Any experiences from there?

:thumb: