PDA

View Full Version : Money How did this country end up in the crapper? (Interest rates)


JD10367
02-06-2011, 09:12 AM
Not intending this to be a political discussion bound for the Shithole, so I'm not going to speak of either political party (although I'm sure it will come to that soon enough, and be whisked away to that section of the site).

A few years back--not 30, or 25 years, even, I'm talking maybe 5--we used to put some of our savings into CDs. A thousand here, two thousand there. The rates were around 5-6%.

Then, only a few years later--maybe 2 or 3 years back--the rates dropped drastically, to 2.5-3%. I decided it wasn't worth tying up the money, so I just put it in a savings account.

Well, today, I decided to check on CD rates for shits and giggles, because my wife had a fun day at the casino and won $1000. What do I find? CD rates of 0.25-0.75%. But wait! If you're a member of the bank, you get a whopping 1%!! And that was on a 3-year CD! Gee, let me run to lock up my thousand bucks for THREE YEARS just so I can earn a whopping TEN BUCKS!

What the fuck has happened to this country? No wonder people don't save money! Why bother? You save money, by the time you save it the inflation rate has actually made it worth less than when you put it in there! Remember the days of being a kid, 30 or 40 years ago, when you'd get your little "passbook savings" account and get, say, 16% interest on your money?

So we have banks giving us no money back on our investment with them, so they don't have any of our money, so to make money they charge us 18% (or even more) on our credit cards. We're not saving any money, and we're paying exorbitant interest rates.

This country is so fucked.

rad
02-06-2011, 09:16 AM
......and that's when the WHORES come in.

Baconeater
02-06-2011, 09:17 AM
Ayep.

rad
02-06-2011, 09:21 AM
Men laying their trick-money down. Twenty dollars to pay the rent? Maybe not. Maybe instead I'll spend it on the WHORE.

notorious
02-06-2011, 09:23 AM
This.



When I worked at a bank 10 years ago CD rates were 5% to 6% long term.


What's the point anymore?

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 09:25 AM
Allowing people to buy things based on a FICA score rather than an actual debt to income ratio is what killed most in this country.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 09:26 AM
This.



When I worked at a bank 10 years ago CD rates were 5% to 6% long term.


What's the point anymore?

I got like 6.71 on a 1 yr cd in like 2003 ... you are lucky to get 1% for a 5 yr cd now

Screw that

notorious
02-06-2011, 09:29 AM
I got like 6.71 on a 1 yr cd in like 2003 ... you are lucky to get 1% for a 5 yr cd now

Screw that

Yep.

Why tie up your money and pay a large penalty if you need to move it for chicken feed?


Might as well do away with them. About the only good they present is rolling income that gets dispersed at a preset time without the need for lawyers.

RJ
02-06-2011, 09:30 AM
I remember about a year ago I was going to put some money in CD's and when I looked at the rates I thought I was seeing a typo. Yeah, you're better off keeping it under the mattress.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 09:34 AM
Yep.

Why tie up your money and pay a large penalty if you need to move it for chicken feed?


Might as well do away with them. About the only good they present is rolling income that gets dispersed at a preset time without the need for lawyers.

Yup, bout all I do now is use perkstreet... keep 5k in my account and get 2% back on all purchases I run as credit even though it is not a credit card but a debit card with a visa logo on it.

so now basically I pay all my bills with my perkstreet card and buy all groceries and anything I can with it.

2% is not much but better than nothing..

Have accumulated about 100 bucks since the middle of Dec

Molitoth
02-06-2011, 09:38 AM
How did this country end up in the crapper? (Interest rates)

When Woodrow Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act.


"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence

JD10367
02-06-2011, 09:47 AM
Yep.

Why tie up your money and pay a large penalty if you need to move it for chicken feed?


Might as well do away with them. About the only good they present is rolling income that gets dispersed at a preset time without the need for lawyers.

I told my wife, "You can go to the casino, throw twenty bucks at a machine, and--if you happen to do well for a few minutes--you'll make more money in 5 minutes than you'll make in the bank in a year."

Okie_Apparition
02-06-2011, 09:52 AM
They should rename the Super Bowl the Reagan Bowl. With the Reagan cocktail franks and the creamy Reagan Ranch dip on our chins. Schwing!

Over-Head
02-06-2011, 09:54 AM
This country is so ****ed.
Yes it is, and I would appreicate it greatly if you bunch down south would stop trying to drag us Canucks into a recession with ya !!:p

Gonzo
02-06-2011, 09:55 AM
Men laying their trick-money down. Twenty dollars to pay the rent? Maybe not. Maybe instead I'll spend it on the WHORE.

LMAO

I visited a prostitute ONCE during the war and have been listening to this ever since.
Posted via Mobile Device

FAX
02-06-2011, 09:57 AM
Although I agree with the sentiments expressed in Mr. Molitoth's post, it can be good in a way. For example, I raised money for the new business with convertible notes paying a 3% annual interest or convertible to stock. Raising seed capital at 3% is great for the company and they sold like handwarmers in Juneau.

I'm not sure why Roosevelt took away our gold certificates or why Johnson took away our silver coinage. Maybe somebody can explain that to me. It seems to me that your "money" should be backed by something other than "faith and trust" of a corrupt government that cannot control itself.

"But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee." - Moses, after seeing and speaking with God,

FAX

JD10367
02-06-2011, 09:58 AM
Yes it is, and I would appreicate it greatly if you bunch down south would stop trying to drag us Canucks into a recession with ya !!:p

What the fuck are you complaining about? We've all worked our asses off down here to ruin this country, so you can FINALLY have a Canadian Dollar that's on equal par. We've managed to crapify the U.S. Dollar so much that I can no longer make fun of my Canadian counterparts when they show up. I have to spend six weeks in Toronto this spring and I can no longer look forward to buying a cup of coffee and yelling, in Rude American, "That was only fifty cents U.S., hahahahaha!" :mad:

:D

BigRedChief
02-06-2011, 10:18 AM
Interest rates? The cause?:doh!:

It'a a little more complicated than that. A lot of it has to do with our own system.

American company A can pay an American $50K for a job or pay a 3rd worlder $5K for the same work. They ship the job overseas and we give them a tax break for doing so. Thats in their company's best interest, not the USA. They can't compete otherwise the story goes.

We don't manufacture and export goods like 20-30 years ago. Those days are never coming back.

We reward risk and free enterprise. See the Wall street meltdown and us having to pay for that risky business.

We value wealth over contribution to society. We pay teachers, cops and fireman barely middle class wages.

Not saying this is a wrong system. It's produced the largest middle class ever in the history of the world. Just saying that there is always a ying/yang, a good side and bad side to everything. No system is perfect.

Chiefshrink
02-06-2011, 10:38 AM
Although I agree with the sentiments expressed in Mr. Molitoth's post, it can be good in a way. For example, I raised money for the new business with convertible notes paying a 3% annual interest or convertible to stock. Raising seed capital at 3% is great for the company and they sold like handwarmers in Juneau.

I'm not sure why Roosevelt took away our gold certificates or why Johnson took away our silver coinage. Maybe somebody can explain that to me. It seems to me that your "money" should be backed by something other than "faith and trust" of a corrupt government that cannot control itself.

"But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee." - Moses, after seeing and speaking with God,

FAX

You nailed it Fax!!!:thumb:

Jeffereson said something like "voting yourself $$" and Franklin replied to an inquisitive woman, "giving you a 'republic' IF you can keep it:thumb:

Moral corruption on both sides of the aisle and within the fabric of our society are taking down our country very rapidly.:shake:

KC Jones
02-06-2011, 10:49 AM
Economy is crap, credit system nearly collapsed. So, you set the bank lending rate to 0% in order to fuel lending and spending. Cd rates will climb in a few years when the lending rate climbs. Right now you can't really make money when you lend it out, so there's no real need to give people rates to encourage them to "save" the money the banks lend out. It's going to be a long, slow, and painful recovery, regardless of who is in office.

Over-Head
02-06-2011, 11:00 AM
What the **** are you complaining about? We've all worked our asses off down here to ruin this country, so you can FINALLY have a Canadian Dollar that's on equal par. We've managed to crapify the U.S. Dollar so much that I can no longer make fun of my Canadian counterparts when they show up. I have to spend six weeks in Toronto this spring and I can no longer look forward to buying a cup of coffee and yelling, in Rude American, "That was only fifty cents U.S., hahahahaha!" :mad:

:D ROFL
Dude, in the 90's I took an ass pounding on exchange rate operating in the USA as a long haul trucker. (1 of the main reasons I retired from it), all I can say in rude Canadian is .... Karm's a bitch.... eh! :p
1970 we took our first family trip to FL, it was great, our dollar was worth more than yours back then too. :evil:

Buehler445
02-06-2011, 11:05 AM
Interest rates? The cause?:doh!:

It'a a little more complicated than that. A lot of it has to do with our own system.

American company A can pay an American $50K for a job or pay a 3rd worlder $5K for the same work. They ship the job overseas and we give them a tax break for doing so. Thats in their company's best interest, not the USA. They can't compete otherwise the story goes.

We don't manufacture and export goods like 20-30 years ago. Those days are never coming back.

We reward risk and free enterprise. See the Wall street meltdown and us having to pay for that risky business.

We value wealth over contribution to society. We pay teachers, cops and fireman barely middle class wages.

Not saying this is a wrong system. It's produced the largest middle class ever in the history of the world. Just saying that there is always a ying/yang, a good side and bad side to everything. No system is perfect.

At a high level this is accurate, but from a practical standpoint, the economy started to go to hell. So the FED effectively lowered interest rates to 0 to promote economic growth (on the loan side, not the savings side). So banks offer cheap ass credit, but also don't pay anything for interest.

RJ
02-06-2011, 11:41 AM
Interest rates? The cause?:doh!:

It'a a little more complicated than that. A lot of it has to do with our own system.

American company A can pay an American $50K for a job or pay a 3rd worlder $5K for the same work. They ship the job overseas and we give them a tax break for doing so. Thats in their company's best interest, not the USA. They can't compete otherwise the story goes.

We don't manufacture and export goods like 20-30 years ago. Those days are never coming back.
We reward risk and free enterprise. See the Wall street meltdown and us having to pay for that risky business.

We value wealth over contribution to society. We pay teachers, cops and fireman barely middle class wages.

Not saying this is a wrong system. It's produced the largest middle class ever in the history of the world. Just saying that there is always a ying/yang, a good side and bad side to everything. No system is perfect.


I was surprised to learn the the US is still the world's largest manufacturing nation. Low margin items like electronics are being ceded to other nations but we're making more high margin goods like medical equipment.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 11:53 AM
I was surprised to learn the the US is still the world's largest manufacturing nation. Low margin items like electronics are being ceded to other nations but we're making more high margin goods like medical equipment.

China will buy a handful of our best selling products, copy it and manufacture it at slave labor rates then ship the shit back over here and people buy it.

Patents or anything does not matter there, the USA should refuse to let them import cloned crap.

Buck
02-06-2011, 11:55 AM
How did this thread end up in the lounge? (DC)

Bwana
02-06-2011, 11:57 AM
China will buy a handful of our best selling products, copy it and manufacture it at slave labor rates then ship the shit back over here and people buy it.

Patents or anything does not matter there, the USA should refuse to let them import cloned crap.

We could do that, but that may cause them to call in their marker on the debt they hold. If you think we're fucked now..........

FAX
02-06-2011, 12:00 PM
We could do that, but that may cause them to call in their marker on the debt they hold. If you think we're ****ed now..........

China's hammer is somewhat more forceful than that, sadly. They and their minions own an enormous amount of real estate in the US. If we piss them off too much, all the tenants at the Watergate would be homeless within a week.

FAX

RJ
02-06-2011, 12:08 PM
China will buy a handful of our best selling products, copy it and manufacture it at slave labor rates then ship the shit back over here and people buy it.

Patents or anything does not matter there, the USA should refuse to let them import cloned crap.


I was also surprised to learn that China is 3rd largest for US exports and climbing fast, although obviously the deficit is huge. I guess if we keep buying their cheap crap, eventually the people there will be able to afford more of our pricier crap.

I agree about the cloning but it seems like that would be really hard to prove or enforce. I've learned to be very careful about buying golf clubs on line.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 12:09 PM
We could do that, but that may cause them to call in their marker on the debt they hold. If you think we're ****ed now..........

What will they do if we don't have the money? Start a war and end the World? Thats what would happen...

They are not that stupid

FAX
02-06-2011, 12:14 PM
Have you guys tried purchasing something that "wasn't" made in China, lately?

It's not easy.

FAX

Baconeater
02-06-2011, 12:16 PM
Have you guys tried purchasing something that "wasn't" made in China, lately?

It's not easy.

FAX
It's downright impossible if it's anything that has a circuit board in it.

BigRedChief
02-06-2011, 12:18 PM
Have you guys tried purchasing something that "wasn't" made in China, lately?

It's not easy.

FAXJust purchased pizza and wings online.:rolleyes:

FAX
02-06-2011, 12:18 PM
The beautiful and witty Mrs. FAX once convinced me to accompany her to a place called "Bed, Bath, & Beyond" ... maybe you've heard of it.

Anyhow, those traitorous bastards offer nothing but Chinese-made items, apparently. I was, however, able to find a pencil eraser attachment that looked like Shrek that was made in the USA for $4.99.

FAX

BigRedChief
02-06-2011, 12:20 PM
How did this thread end up in the lounge? (DC)Because its not degenerated into a right/left thingy and the conversation is civil.

Baconeater
02-06-2011, 12:21 PM
The beautiful and witty Mrs. FAX once convinced me to accompany her to a place called "Bed, Bath, & Beyond" ... maybe you've heard of it.

Anyhow, those traitorous bastards offer nothing but Chinese-made items, apparently. I was, however, able to find a pencil eraser attachment that looked like Shrek that was made in the USA for $4.99.

FAX
Did you buy it?

FAX
02-06-2011, 12:23 PM
Did you buy it?

No. Got a six-pack of those little guys at Wal-Mart for a dollar.

FAX

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 12:35 PM
Have you guys tried purchasing something that "wasn't" made in China, lately?

It's not easy.

FAX

Damn right it's not easy...

But I refuse to buy any food I know is produced or raised in china.

Lonewolf Ed
02-06-2011, 12:40 PM
Have you guys tried purchasing something that "wasn't" made in China, lately?

It's not easy.

FAX

Hell, I just went to the Price Chopper last night and had to buy garlic powder. All three brands were Chinese! What happened to Gilroy, CA? That town is nothing but garlic. I fail to see how Chinese garlic, which has to pass through a CA port most likely, can be cheaper than garlic grown here. Sad, sad, sad.

Saulbadguy
02-06-2011, 12:43 PM
China is awesome. Haters gonna hate.

teedubya
02-06-2011, 12:50 PM
IN 2004, Silver was $4 an ounce. In Sept 2010, it was $17 an ounce... Now, its $29 an ounce. This is very telling of the value of the US dollar... and where it's headed.

alnorth
02-06-2011, 12:50 PM
interest rates are not the sole determination of how we are doing. You could get pretty high double-digit interest in the 70's, but inflation was also massive so you weren't really gaining anything. Right now, inflation is pretty low and a ton of money has been dumped onto the economy by the feds in an attempt to prevent a depression.

This is a temporary few-year annoyance. It wont last forever, or even much longer. Interest rates will start coming up soon. (people who went all-in on bond funds thinking they are safe will probably get killed when that happens) Fortunately, I'm too young to care about CD's, and the stock market was very good to me in 2010.

Bearcat2005
02-06-2011, 01:12 PM
When the FED monitizes the debt, interest rates are artifically decreased in an attempt to encourage spending based on no capital. One of the several problems with this is interest rates on any form of savings is diminished, thus trying to encourage you to spend.

bevischief
02-06-2011, 01:17 PM
This is what happens when you are printing money like it is Monopoly money.

KC native
02-06-2011, 01:20 PM
Blame Alan Greenspan. Low interest rates are probably one of the largest causes of the financial crisis of 2007-2009. He also made a radical departure from the Fed's usual mandates.

Flash back to the tech bubble. Everything was going great (at least on paper) and people were feeling rich. Well the bubble collapsed and Alan Greenspan decided to lower rates to bring up asset prices (the stock market). This was a monumental error and radical change. Traditionally the Fed only cared about price level stability (inflation) and full employment. Asset prices were ignored.

Now, under the Fed's new (and dumbfounded) third mandate which Bernanke buys into whole heartedly, asset prices must be subsidized by low interest rates.

RJ
02-06-2011, 01:26 PM
Damn right it's not easy...

But I refuse to buy any food I know is produced or raised in china.



Same here. There's just something about Chinese food imports that bugs me. But I've mostly surrendered with non-food items.

FringeNC
02-06-2011, 01:29 PM
Yeah, being able to get a mortgage for 4.5% sucks. It'd be great if nominal interest rates were 20%. The 70s ruled.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 01:42 PM
Same here. There's just something about Chinese food imports that bugs me. But I've mostly surrendered with non-food items.

Poison baby formula, poison dog food

I don't eat farm raised fish either, it's gotta be wild caught.

Watch those bags of frozen shrimp, most of that comes from China...

alnorth
02-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Yeah, being able to get a mortgage for 4.5% sucks. It'd be great if nominal interest rates were 20%. The 70s ruled.

Yeah, this isn't a universal bad thing for all. Some people (old retirees who were counting on income) get hurt, but other people (younger people who need a car/house) are winners. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get some pretty cheap money. When interest rates come back up it could be a generation before mortgage rates are under 5% again.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 01:53 PM
Screw the cheap money, here's an idea, Work, make money, save money, spend money, work some more, save some more repeat

RJ
02-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Poison baby formula, poison dog food

I don't eat farm raised fish either, it's gotta be wild caught.

Watch those bags of frozen shrimp, most of that comes from China...


There's a brand of frozen fish sold at Smiths (Krogers) called The Great American Seafood Company. And of course it all comes from China.

Lbedrock1
02-06-2011, 03:18 PM
Not intending this to be a political discussion bound for the Shithole, so I'm not going to speak of either political party (although I'm sure it will come to that soon enough, and be whisked away to that section of the site).

A few years back--not 30, or 25 years, even, I'm talking maybe 5--we used to put some of our savings into CDs. A thousand here, two thousand there. The rates were around 5-6%.

Then, only a few years later--maybe 2 or 3 years back--the rates dropped drastically, to 2.5-3%. I decided it wasn't worth tying up the money, so I just put it in a savings account.

Well, today, I decided to check on CD rates for shits and giggles, because my wife had a fun day at the casino and won $1000. What do I find? CD rates of 0.25-0.75%. But wait! If you're a member of the bank, you get a whopping 1%!! And that was on a 3-year CD! Gee, let me run to lock up my thousand bucks for THREE YEARS just so I can earn a whopping TEN BUCKS!

What the **** has happened to this country? No wonder people don't save money! Why bother? You save money, by the time you save it the inflation rate has actually made it worth less than when you put it in there! Remember the days of being a kid, 30 or 40 years ago, when you'd get your little "passbook savings" account and get, say, 16% interest on your money?

So we have banks giving us no money back on our investment with them, so they don't have any of our money, so to make money they charge us 18% (or even more) on our credit cards. We're not saving any money, and we're paying exorbitant interest rates.

This country is so ****ed.

One word discribes whats killing this country......GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Saulbadguy
02-06-2011, 03:20 PM
One word discribes whats killing this country......GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Capitalism did it.

Saulbadguy
02-06-2011, 03:22 PM
There's a brand of frozen fish sold at Smiths (Krogers) called The Great American Seafood Company. And of course it all comes from China.

I bet millions of people eat it every year and don't die or get sick, too.

teedubya
02-06-2011, 03:25 PM
It's having to answer to shareholders every quarter and improving profits for the sake of making money... no one cares about consequences of their actions anymore. It's all about the $€£¥, baby.

Lbedrock1
02-06-2011, 03:29 PM
Capitalism did it.

Thats not true, Capitalism in its true form allows people to create and become wealthy, but what we have allow is a few to wipe out true capitalism and replace it with greed and a thirst for power. The banks would have failed under true capitalism. What we have now is no where close to what capitalism was suppose to be.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 03:30 PM
One word discribes whats killing this country......GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Laziness and people who feel they are entitled to something for nothing is killing this country...

Saulbadguy
02-06-2011, 03:34 PM
Thats not true, Capitalism in its true form allows people to create and become wealthy, but what we have allow is a few to wipe out true capitalism and replace it with greed and a thirst for power. The banks would have failed under true capitalism. What we have now is no where close to what capitalism was suppose to be.

So, do whatever you want in order to become wealthy doesn't equate to greed and a thirst for power, eh?

WV
02-06-2011, 03:36 PM
What a coincidence....just last evening the wife and I drove by a bank actually advertising their 12 month CD's at a whopping 1.11%....why bother.
Unless you deposit a huge some of money it isn't even worth going into the bank, signing your life away and dealing with the bank in the first place.

ChiefaRoo
02-06-2011, 03:54 PM
What a coincidence....just last evening the wife and I drove by a bank actually advertising their 12 month CD's at a whopping 1.11%....why bother.
Unless you deposit a huge some of money it isn't even worth going into the bank, signing your life away and dealing with the bank in the first place.

To those of you who are wanting to invest and like a high Beta stock look at Bank of America and MGM Resorts. Long term (next two years) both of these stocks will double. MGM may go much much higher than that.

CD's, Bonds et al. Joke. If you don't like much risk/reward then put it in a savings account.

Lbedrock1
02-06-2011, 03:54 PM
Laziness and people who feel they are entitled to something for nothing is killing this country...

Is that the same way people were inslave in this coutry and made to work for nothing. The slave owners thought they were entitled to get rich for nothing or how the wealthy in this coutry think they have a right to set the wage scale and hire who they want even it if means leaving out a group of Americans that don't look like them. Is that the entitlement that is killing this country. Well this country died years ago if that is the case. You see your problem is you have fallen for that people want something for nothing deal. People want to work, be paid well, and live comfortable. They want send their kids to college and repeat that cycle. It is the Government that decided to setup a welfare system that helps those that do nothing instead of helping those that put into the sytem and then turn to it when they need help. I believe we should help people that are out there pushing to better themselves, but our govern (rep and dems) like the welfare state they have some people in because they know those people well never challenge them for their wealth. So not all people are lazy but all people have to work within this unjust system that can't get over it's hatred for people that are different from them only in color. We change that and we change the world for the better.

Groves
02-06-2011, 03:55 PM
ROFL
Dude, in the 90's I took an ass pounding on exchange rate operating in the USA as a long haul trucker. (1 of the main reasons I retired from it), all I can say in rude Canadian is .... Karm's a bitch.... eh! :p
1970 we took our first family trip to FL, it was great, our dollar was worth more than yours back then too. :evil:

Don't you have a general contractor to berate or something?

Just kidding. You are due for showing some more pictures of your ornamental plaster work, though, when you're done gloating.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 03:58 PM
Is that the same way people were inslave in this coutry and made to work for nothing. The slave owners thought they were entitled to get rich for nothing or how the wealthy in this coutry think they have a right to set the wage scale and hire who they want even it if means leaving out a group of Americans that don't look like them. Is that the entitlement that is killing this country. Well this country died years ago if that is the case.

hey if you don't like what you are getting paid then quit, don't blame a rich guy for being rich... get off your ass and do something about it...

alnorth
02-06-2011, 04:06 PM
Screw the cheap money, here's an idea, Work, make money, save money, spend money, work some more, save some more repeat

no one has a right to high interest rates. Money also has to obey the law of supply and demand. If the country needs lower rates for a while, so be it. If you shied away from stock market risk and built your life around the assumption that 4-5% CD's would be around forever, thats your fault.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 04:11 PM
no one has a right to high interest rates. Money also has to obey the law of supply and demand. If the country needs lower rates for a while, so be it. If you shied away from stock market risk and built your life around the assumption that 4-5% CD's would be around forever, thats your fault.

What killed this country is too many broke ass people buying too much stuff they had no business buying in the first place and defaulting on the loans...

I built my life around being debt free and falling back on cold hard cash....
the only thing I risk is 401k in mutual funds (15% of my salary)

alnorth
02-06-2011, 05:05 PM
What killed this country is too many broke ass people buying too much stuff they had no business buying in the first place and defaulting on the loans...

I built my life around being debt free and falling back on cold hard cash....
the only thing I risk is 401k in mutual funds (15% of my salary)

Cash is a pretty lousy investment. Even at the best of times, you wont get much more than a measly 1 or 2% above inflation.

Saulbadguy
02-06-2011, 05:06 PM
What killed this country is too many broke ass people buying too much stuff they had no business buying in the first place and defaulting on the loans...

I built my life around being debt free and falling back on cold hard cash....
the only thing I risk is 401k in mutual funds (15% of my salary)

Haha. Dumbass.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 05:14 PM
Cash is a pretty lousy investment. Even at the best of times, you wont get much more than a measly 1 or 2% above inflation.

Thanks, I will take my chances

Lbedrock1
02-06-2011, 06:01 PM
hey if you don't like what you are getting paid then quit, don't blame a rich guy for being rich... get off your ass and do something about it...

You are absolutely right, but don't rig the game in the rich mans favor. The way you make sure innovation and competition stays in our market place is by making sure the rules and regulation our not so heavily favoring the businesses that are settle in already. Now when I get rich I may beglad the rules are in my favor, but that still does not make it right.

Saulbadguy
02-06-2011, 06:10 PM
You are absolutely right, but don't rig the game in the rich mans favor. The way you make sure innovation and competition stays in our market place is by making sure the rules and regulation our not so heavily favoring the businesses that are settle in already. Now when I get rich I may beglad the rules are in my favor, but that still does not make it right.

The average American CEO makes something like 420 times the average american middle class worker.

I guess we are doing things right though, it's not like other countries are enjoying immense success.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 06:31 PM
You are absolutely right, but don't rig the game in the rich mans favor. The way you make sure innovation and competition stays in our market place is by making sure the rules and regulation our not so heavily favoring the businesses that are settle in already. Now when I get rich I may beglad the rules are in my favor, but that still does not make it right.

define rich and lets see if we are close to what we interpret the word to be

RJ
02-06-2011, 07:10 PM
I bet millions of people eat it every year and don't die or get sick, too.


Obviously that's true.

I just have an objection to buying food grown, raised or processed in China. I'm fairly certain we can do all that quite well right here in our own country. I understand importing manufactured goods but I don't get why we import garlic.

Saulbadguy
02-06-2011, 07:13 PM
Obviously that's true.

I just have an objection to buying food grown, raised or processed in China.

Why? Racist?

RJ
02-06-2011, 07:34 PM
Why? Racist?


Yes. If there's anything I hate it's Chinese people.

teedubya
02-06-2011, 07:40 PM
What killed this country is too many broke ass people buying too much stuff they had no business buying in the first place and defaulting on the loans...

I built my life around being debt free and falling back on cold hard cash....
the only thing I risk is 401k in mutual funds (15% of my salary)

Cold hard cash is cold hard worthless paper backed by nothing. You'd of thought you'd at least of had the foresight to buy some precious metals. I've been exchanging dollars for metals for a long while.

Paper is a fucking joke. There is nothing cold hard about it... except the hard cock America has taken up the bum.

Saulbadguy
02-06-2011, 07:41 PM
Cold hard cash is cold hard worthless paper backed by nothing. You'd of thought you'd at least of had the foresight to buy some precious metals. I've been exchanging dollars for metals for a long while.

Paper is a fucking joke. There is nothing cold hard about it... except the hard cock America has taken up the bum.

ROFL

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 07:43 PM
Cold hard cash is cold hard worthless paper backed by nothing. You'd of thought you'd at least of had the foresight to buy some precious metals. I've been exchanging dollars for metals for a long while.

Paper is a ****ing joke. There is nothing cold hard about it... except the hard cock America has taken up the bum.

Gold reached its peak in 1980 when it reached $800 an ounce, which is $2,000 in today’s dollars. So in real terms, gold has lost about 40% of its value since 1980. In the meantime, the stock market has gone up about 500% in real terms.
http://blogs.wsj.com/financial-adviser/2010/07/12/why-gold-is-the-worst-investment-right-now/

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 07:44 PM
ROFL

Awkward man, I don't think the man intended that to be funny...:spock:

teedubya
02-06-2011, 07:44 PM
Yeah, I did stocks for awhile, but $4 dollar silver was too good to pass up.

Saulbadguy
02-06-2011, 07:45 PM
Awkward man, I don't think the man intended that to be funny...:spock:

It was - only idiots invest in "precious metals".

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 07:46 PM
Yeah, I did stocks for awhile, but $4 dollar silver was too good to pass up.

What are you going to do when paper money is no good? What will you do with your silver and gold? Barter it?

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 07:47 PM
It was - only idiots invest in "precious metals".

I don't think it's a good investment either....

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 07:49 PM
people don't think about it much but if the paper dollar were to go worthless, I don't think there would be a way to protect your worldly possessions no matter how many guns you had.
It would be total kaos, looting stealing and killing ...

If the dollar goes away, we have far more to worry about than money.

Saulbadguy
02-06-2011, 07:56 PM
people don't think about it much but if the paper dollar were to go worthless, I don't think there would be a way to protect your worldly possessions no matter how many guns you had.
It would be total kaos, looting stealing and killing ...

If the dollar goes away, we have far more to worry about than money.

Won't happen.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 07:59 PM
Won't happen.

Hope not but think about what if.... oh sure things would be ok for a few days til people got hungry..

tarheel23
02-06-2011, 08:13 PM
I received this story in an e-mail. Thought it was pretty much to the point

It is a slow day in the small Saskatchewan town of Pumphandle and

Streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and

Everybody is living on credit.



A tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, and

Lays a $100 bill on the desk saying he wants to inspect the rooms

Upstairs to pick one for the night.



As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs

Next door to pay his debt to the butcher.



The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt

To the pig farmer.



The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his

Supplier, the Co-op.



The guy at the Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the

Local cleaning woman who has also been facing hard times and has had to

offer her services on credit.



The cleaning woman rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel

Owner.



The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the traveler will not suspect anything.



At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms



Are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves.



No one produced anything. No one earned anything... However, the whole

Town thinks that they are now out of debt and there is a false atmosphere of optimism.



And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how a "stimulus package" works.

Saulbadguy
02-06-2011, 08:17 PM
I received this story in an e-mail. Thought it was pretty much to the point

It is a slow day in the small Saskatchewan town of Pumphandle and

Streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and

Everybody is living on credit.



A tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, and

Lays a $100 bill on the desk saying he wants to inspect the rooms

Upstairs to pick one for the night.



As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs

Next door to pay his debt to the butcher.



The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt

To the pig farmer.



The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his

Supplier, the Co-op.



The guy at the Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the

Local cleaning woman who has also been facing hard times and has had to

offer her services on credit.



The cleaning woman rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel

Owner.



The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the traveler will not suspect anything.



At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms



Are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves.



No one produced anything. No one earned anything... However, the whole

Town thinks that they are now out of debt and there is a false atmosphere of optimism.



And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how a "stimulus package" works.
sock

Dunit35
02-06-2011, 08:20 PM
So, is this summer a good time for a first time home buyer?

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 08:22 PM
So, is this summer a good time for a first time home buyer?

right now is if you can put down a stack of cash

Dunit35
02-06-2011, 08:25 PM
right now is if you can put down a stack of cash

We only have a 5k dp for a house and looking in the 40-65k range. That'll get you a good 2-3 bed 1-2 bath around here.

Chiefshrink
02-06-2011, 08:29 PM
Thats not true, Capitalism in its true form allows people to create and become wealthy, but what we have allow is a few to wipe out true capitalism and replace it with greed and a thirst for power. The banks would have failed under true capitalism. What we have now is no where close to what capitalism was suppose to be.

THIS!!:thumb:

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 08:30 PM
We only have a 5k dp for a house and looking in the 40-65k range. That'll get you a good 2-3 bed 1-2 bath around here.

Smart man.... live within your means and you will live a happy life... Good luck to you.:thumb:

Dunit35
02-06-2011, 08:43 PM
I'm just tired of putting 500-550 a month in rent. Pay the same or less and own one.

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 08:48 PM
I'm just tired of putting 500-550 a month in rent. Pay the same or less and own one.

If you can save up enough to prevent paying that PMI insurance, that will take a chunk off that payment

Dunit35
02-06-2011, 08:49 PM
PMI insurance?

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 09:02 PM
PMI insurance?

its the insurance that insures you will pay for the house, I think you have to put 10-20% down to get out of paying it....

Dunit35
02-06-2011, 09:09 PM
its the insurance that insures you will pay for the house, I think you have to put 10-20% down to get out of paying it....

And it saves you money in the long run?

R8RFAN
02-06-2011, 09:14 PM
And it saves you money in the long run?

oh yea, they add it to your payment and it can be as much as 100 bucks a month for the house you are trying to buy... maybe more...

Thats 100 bucks a month for the life of the mortgage I think.... real estate guys correct me if I am wrong

alnorth
02-06-2011, 09:17 PM
oh yea, they add it to your payment and it can be as much as 100 bucks a month for the house you are trying to buy... maybe more...

Thats 100 bucks a month for the life of the mortgage I think.... real estate guys correct me if I am wrong

Not a real estate guy, but you can usually get rid of the PMI after you have a healthy amount of equity, but it is still going to be several years at least. If for some bizarre reason the lender doesn't want to let go of the PMI, then you can refi out of it later.

The only reason to pay PMI is if you cant afford 20% (e.g. a 5% for a FHA loan) and dont want to keep renting for 3 or 4 years to save up the big down payment.

Saulbadguy
02-06-2011, 09:22 PM
Yeah, PMI goes away at %20 equity usually

Dunit35
02-06-2011, 09:27 PM
oh yea, they add it to your payment and it can be as much as 100 bucks a month for the house you are trying to buy... maybe more...

Thats 100 bucks a month for the life of the mortgage I think.... real estate guys correct me if I am wrong


Depending on the price of a house, we could do 20% but we don't want to wipe out our savings.

I hate idea of moving in June and paying 500-550 a month in rent when we could just buy a house for the same if not cheaper price.

Lbedrock1
02-07-2011, 01:47 PM
define rich and lets see if we are close to what we interpret the word to be

In my opinion the government has the definition for poor and rich wrong becasue they never adjust it. Rich would be determined, in my opinion, by a certain mark not by what you make a year. For a business that would be any business after all things are paid that has 750.000 dollars or more in profits. I don't consider you rich if you have a small business bringing in 250,000 a year because that has to take care of your family and your business. Now if you business pays you 250,000 a year and it has 500,000 still left I would consider you then because you control where you profits go and you could put those profits in you pocket so your business would not fall under the rich category.

LaDairis
02-07-2011, 01:49 PM
When a "conservative" doubles Federal Spending in 8 years, we usually get a recession/depression and a large deficit.

When the US kept Federal Spending flat 1994-1999, we got a surplus and a booming economy.

When the US doubled Federal spending 01-08, we got a depression and a trillion dollar deficit...


so clearly SPENDING has nothing to do with it, because those receiving the SPENDING like it...

ferrarispider95
02-07-2011, 02:14 PM
I am buying every piece of property I can get a hold of right now. You can buy foreclosures 1/2 off of what they sold for 2005-2008. Lot of junk, have to be patient, but a few in nice neighborhoods. Put a renter in there for a couple years and tread water, sell when prices rise. I have know clue when the market will return (when jobs return), prices won't probably reach the high we saw in the run-up, but still tons of value out there.

Only downside is that you need 25% down on investment loans. If you don't have the cash it could limit your options.

eazyb81
02-07-2011, 02:28 PM
I'm just tired of putting 500-550 a month in rent. Pay the same or less and own one.

Who cares about owning a house if it does not increase in value and you are now responsible for all the repairs?

If you're making a long-term purchase it might make more sense, but I don't think anyone currently renting should feel some rush to go out and buy a house now.

The market is going to be flat for awhile simply due to excess supply and lack of liquidity.

ferrarispider95
02-07-2011, 05:17 PM
Who cares about owning a house if it does not increase in value and you are now responsible for all the repairs?

If you're making a long-term purchase it might make more sense, but I don't think anyone currently renting should feel some rush to go out and buy a house now.

The market is going to be flat for awhile simply due to excess supply and lack of liquidity.

You should be or very close to buying at the bottom of the market. That said, I would be buying a foreclosure or something is heavily discounted. Many sellers who are trying to sell can't give it away because they owe more than its worth.

You need to get a handle on your market. Find a realtor in your area that moves a lot of houses or go straight to the broker of freddie mac or fannie mae listings.

The other incentive is % rates and being able to lock in during the lowest period of rates. My advice on this is do the 15 year, not the 30, unless your income can't support it. You will make no head with a 30 and the price range your in, the difference in payments or negligible.

Also tax deductions can play an incentive depending on what you make. I need all the deductions i can get, and mortgage interest, property taxes, and depreciation help to really offset taxes. Capital gains can also be eliminated in you live in it for 2 years.

R8RFAN
02-07-2011, 06:34 PM
Who cares about owning a house if it does not increase in value and you are now responsible for all the repairs?

If you're making a long-term purchase it might make more sense, but I don't think anyone currently renting should feel some rush to go out and buy a house now.

The market is going to be flat for awhile simply due to excess supply and lack of liquidity.

It's really nice once you pay it off though and all those payments are gone.

Okie_Apparition
02-07-2011, 06:41 PM
Oh sure go buy a house and Uncle Sam will let you have a tax break. Have kids, Uncle Sam will give you a tax break. Guess who burns up the most taxes? ****ing rug rats. This country is so screwed up. Good thing I can still choke down some mary jane brownies with out ****ing with my heart meds.

MahiMike
02-07-2011, 06:41 PM
1% interest rates is the GOOD part. The bad part is that when you actually take your money out, the dollar will be worth 20% less.

whatsmynameagain
02-07-2011, 09:00 PM
Cold hard cash is cold hard worthless paper backed by nothing. You'd of thought you'd at least of had the foresight to buy some precious metals. I've been exchanging dollars for metals for a long while.

Paper is a ****ing joke. There is nothing cold hard about it... except the hard cock America has taken up the bum.

Hope those metals taste good. complete joke to buy, just another way the rich scam the stupid

alnorth
02-07-2011, 09:11 PM
Who cares about owning a house if it does not increase in value and you are now responsible for all the repairs?

If you're making a long-term purchase it might make more sense, but I don't think anyone currently renting should feel some rush to go out and buy a house now.

The market is going to be flat for awhile simply due to excess supply and lack of liquidity.

I used to be absolutely with you. 2-5 years ago I had a decent job but still renting, family and friends thought I was crazy but I did the math and what meager or non-existent benefit I might get from buying did not come close to the low rent and flexibility/mobility I had from renting. I didn't think I'd be buying for a long time.

Then the housing market collapsed, then a while after that it cratered. Mortgage rates went through the floor, and the government starting handing out $8,000 bribes to buy a home. They wanted to spur a recovery in buying homes, well it sure as hell worked for me. I was predisposed not to buy at all if ever was a close call, but the math was so lopsidedly in favor of buying that I finally gave in. 1 month of home-shopping later I got my crazy-low mortgage rate and huge bribe from the government, and now I'm a homeowner just 2 years after I thought I would not bother to buy a house for a long time.

Baconeater
02-07-2011, 09:25 PM
I'm just tired of putting 500-550 a month in rent. Pay the same or less and own one.
ROFL

You can't rent an apartment for that where I live. Or at least one that doesn't have the threat of occasional random gunfire.

alnorth
02-07-2011, 09:37 PM
ROFL

You can't rent an apartment for that where I live. Or at least one that doesn't have the threat of occasional random gunfire.

eh, random gunfire? Its fine, you got at least a 95% chance or better of not dying.

acesn8s
02-07-2011, 10:19 PM
Rent has increased by $200/month in metro areas because so many people lost/losing their homes. Yes, it's a buyers market. No, it is not an investors market. People are living off their savings now because of corporate greed. Gas prices artificially elevated, unregulated home loans, and the failure to promote/educate responsible personal finance created a fragile economy. People were spending their money on gas to get to and from work that their paychecks didn't stretch as far. Sure, oil companies and their investors were making money but at the cost of the working class. The working class was left with the decision to buy food, gas, and clothes or spend the money on the home that was more than they could afford because they were allowed to get a 103% home loan. With so many in the same situation, the housing market collapsed. No one could sell their home before losing it to the bank. Expendable money was non-existent so commerce suffered across the board and people lost their jobs, adding to the downturn economy. In short oil companies, banks, and their investors win and the rest of the country lose their shirts.

doomy3
02-07-2011, 11:40 PM
I am buying every piece of property I can get a hold of right now. You can buy foreclosures 1/2 off of what they sold for 2005-2008. Lot of junk, have to be patient, but a few in nice neighborhoods. Put a renter in there for a couple years and tread water, sell when prices rise. I have know clue when the market will return (when jobs return), prices won't probably reach the high we saw in the run-up, but still tons of value out there.

Only downside is that you need 25% down on investment loans. If you don't have the cash it could limit your options.

Yep, I am helping several investors buy up places every day. Banks LOVE cash buyers right now.

doomy3
02-07-2011, 11:43 PM
You should be or very close to buying at the bottom of the market. That said, I would be buying a foreclosure or something is heavily discounted. Many sellers who are trying to sell can't give it away because they owe more than its worth.

You need to get a handle on your market. Find a realtor in your area that moves a lot of houses or go straight to the broker of freddie mac or fannie mae listings.

The other incentive is % rates and being able to lock in during the lowest period of rates. My advice on this is do the 15 year, not the 30, unless your income can't support it. You will make no head with a 30 and the price range your in, the difference in payments or negligible.

Also tax deductions can play an incentive depending on what you make. I need all the deductions i can get, and mortgage interest, property taxes, and depreciation help to really offset taxes. Capital gains can also be eliminated in you live in it for 2 years.

Another loan to look at is the 5/1 arm right now. It is a killer loan, especially on properties you expect to sell witin 5-7 years. Interest rate (around 3% right now) locks for 5 years, and the most it can move up is 1% the 6th year, 1% 7th, etc. Awesome loan for people who are looking to get into something but will be selling before too long.

doomy3
02-07-2011, 11:51 PM
Another reason (the main reason) why rentals are going up in price like they are is because there is a huge demand. Many people cannot get loans, and so they're turning to renting homes and paying way over what they would be paying in PITII for that same house if they could get approval. It sucks, but the people who own the rentals (especially houses) are really in a good position.

The bad thing is, if you have a house that you would like to rent and then move into something else, is that lenders will rarely give you a loan on another house until you can prove income on the rental for a year. That is difficult for a normal person who is just looking to get out of there house and have thought about renting it as an option. Where do they go if they can't get a loan?

I have 5-6 clients dealing with similar things like this right now.

boogblaster
02-07-2011, 11:59 PM
when they let the top 1% take over everything .......

DaneMcCloud
02-08-2011, 12:08 AM
Have you guys tried purchasing something that "wasn't" made in China, lately?

It's not easy.

FAX

In my "business room", I don't have anything that's made in China. The build quality if awful, there's no QA and resale is garbage. I pay more for hand made electronics built by boutique companies but it's most certainly worth it.

But it's sad when dishes, glasses, televisions, car seats and pretty much everything else has a "Made in China" label, especially considering that none of those items are necessarily "cheap".

chasedude
02-08-2011, 12:15 AM
The Fractal Banking System is the biggest scam ever created, and we're all slaves to it.

HMc
02-08-2011, 03:02 AM
We're getting ~6.25% in savings accounts here at the mo. add an extra percent if you're prepared to tie your money up for 5 years.

I don't know about the fuss though, the vast majority of people are net borrowers so most people should be happy about incredibly low interest rates.

BWillie
02-08-2011, 03:05 AM
I dunno I get 3% in my checking account at hi and free checking. I love it.

tooge
02-08-2011, 08:48 AM
......and that's when the WHORES come in.

whats the going rate for a deposit with one of them

veist
02-08-2011, 11:29 AM
You guys do realize that most stuff that is "made in china" especially big ticket items like Apple iThings and TVs and such are really "assembled in china" right? The components are mostly all sourced outside of China, designed outside of China then merely assembled in China on the cheap. China doesn't make shit on an iPhone being sold but the whole cost gets added to our trade deficit for example, read up http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704828104576021142902413796.html

MahiMike
02-08-2011, 11:33 AM
I used to be absolutely with you. 2-5 years ago I had a decent job but still renting, family and friends thought I was crazy but I did the math and what meager or non-existent benefit I might get from buying did not come close to the low rent and flexibility/mobility I had from renting. I didn't think I'd be buying for a long time.

Then the housing market collapsed, then a while after that it cratered. Mortgage rates went through the floor, and the government starting handing out $8,000 bribes to buy a home. They wanted to spur a recovery in buying homes, well it sure as hell worked for me. I was predisposed not to buy at all if ever was a close call, but the math was so lopsidedly in favor of buying that I finally gave in. 1 month of home-shopping later I got my crazy-low mortgage rate and huge bribe from the government, and now I'm a homeowner just 2 years after I thought I would not bother to buy a house for a long time.

Smart man. Buy when everyone else is running away. Housing will come back when the jobs do. Only thing I trust right now is Real Estate and Gold. The Dollar may very well collapse. Then it won't matter how much you made in the stock market.

eazyb81
02-08-2011, 03:40 PM
Smart man. Buy when everyone else is running away. Housing will come back when the jobs do. Only thing I trust right now is Real Estate and Gold. The Dollar may very well collapse. Then it won't matter how much you made in the stock market.

You say that as if it supports your argument? Unemployment is near 10% and won't be much if any below 9% by the end of the year according to consensus projections. The economy is dealing with structural unemployment, where many people simply do not have the skills necessary to find a job in this new market (i.e. residential construction or auto workers).

The 90% that do have jobs are doing fine, but the 10% that don't are not going to be finding new jobs anytime soon. Given the fact that interest rates are still at zero and the housing market has an extreme amount of excess supply (not even counting shadow inventory of people who would like to sell but simply are not listing right now), the residential housing market does not look to be bouncing back to the frothy 2005-2007 levels anytime soon.